Slashdot Asks: Would You Eat Lab-Grown Meat? (dmarge.com)

An anonymous reader writes from a report via WIRED: Lab-grown meat appears to be coming to a supermarket near you whether you like it or not. Granted, you have some time before that becomes a reality. Scientists in Belgium and the United States are working on cultured meat substitutes that taste like real meat and cost less than real meat, but don't use as many environmental resources as meat from animals, nor does it involve the slaughtering of animals. They predict such meat substitutes will cost a lot less by the year 2020 when the efficiency of bulk production kicks in. According to a 2014 Pew poll, only 20 percent of Americans would be willing to try cultured meat, while a 2013 survey in Belgium revealed that just 13 percent of 180 subjects knew what cultured meat was. Also, vegetarians surveyed perceived man-made meat to be unhealthy and unfavorable. However, once respondents were told how the meat is grown, most said they might try it. When educated about the environmental benefits, the number of people who were willing to try it nearly doubled. A poll from The Vegan Scholar found that lab-grown meat was much more appealing to vegetarians than to vegans. Similar Reddit and SurveyMonkey polls have come to similar conclusions, but it's important to note that none of these polls were peer-reviewed. Researchers have suggested that the media greatly overestimates the importance of vegetarian and vegan opinions on lab-grown meat. Given the lack of large surveys determining the public's opinion on lab-grown meat, we thought we would pose the question to Slashdotters: Would you eat lab-grown meat?

Comments

yes

[turkeydance]

with soylent

Re:yes

[JoeMerchant]

and tofu.

Re:Yes

[Ol Olsoc]

I am not as radical as most vegetarians about this stuff with being cruel to animals and stuff, but I do care about the environment, and having lab grown meat on the table would mean that we could use the resources on the earth more effectively. Already now we know that the developing countries rather shouldn't adopt the meat eating habits of the western world.

So yes, its a good idea. Would I eat it? If it will taste as good as real meat, then yes.

So definitely a thing to look forward to.

There is something to be said for the environmental angle. As we race to prove Malthus wrong again, we'll need to do something akin to this - eventually you can't have people and their meat occupy the exact same space, so fields must be turned into human habitat. I see the future as lab grown meat and vat grown algae as the vegetable.

Well, that sounds a little gloomy, but its a ways off. Since I am a dedicated Omnivore, but I do care about the treatment of animals, so hell yeah, I'll eat lab grown meat.

Re:yes

[msauve]

Animal 57 at Taco Bell.

Re:yes

[MouseTheLuckyDog]

But one thing I suggest ( if you don't mind "chemicals" ) is using sugar free cofee syrups with it.

Re:yes

[MichaelJackson123]

I would like to try "Beyond Meat"'s products. Seems awesome.

I'd like to try

[HornWumpus]

Raise pigs in a lab? What's the problem? I'd eat them.

I'd need a _big_ lab to raise some blue whale for steaks.

Re:I'd like to try

[Anonymous Coward]

Travel to Japan

I think they even let you pick your whale out of the tank.

Re:I'd like to try

[Sax Russell 5449D29A]

I've eaten whale meat and I've also seen it being sold in Japan. Very few Japanese have ever tasted whale meat let alone liked it. It's not particularly good, and frankly you need to finish the whole experience with a vodka shot.

Re:I'd like to try

[ShanghaiBill]

I have also tasted whale meat at a restaurant in Japan. It was not very good. Kobe beef is way better. I don't understand why Japan makes such a big deal out of whale harvesting, since even their own people have little interest in eating them.

Disclaimer: I did not order the whale meat. Someone else at the table did, and they offered me a bite. I am a vegetarian now, although I was not at the time.

Re:I'd like to try

[JoeMerchant]

They're farm-raising blue-fin tuna, not particularly efficient in terms of calories per dollar, but promises to be profitable nonetheless.

Re:I'd like to try

[ceoyoyo]

Tequila would be better. Whale is salty.

Re:I'd like to try

[nanoflower]

I would put snails in this category also. I had them once and while they were quite tasty I think it was more the butter/garlic sauce with little contributed other than texture by the snails.

Heck yes,

[Zelig]

Cheaper, more energy efficient, and before long superior in taste and tone. Slam dunk.

I can just imagine cutting a slice off a 1'x2' meat beam; cover THE ENTIRE GRILL with a fillet. Yums, yums.

Re:Heck yes,

[dunkelfalke]

Same here. Been waiting for that for decades.

Re:Heck yes,

[houstonbofh]

Considering the lack of trust people have for GMO crops, I think this one is right the hell out.

Re: Heck yes,

[bistromath007]

"Meat is incredibly easy to raise cheaply."

Then why is the dollar menu dead? And why haven't I been able to afford a steak on my birthday for five years?

Re:Heck yes,

[JBMcB]

That's fine, all the more for us. Kobe ground prime rib burgers 24x7.

Re: Heck yes,

[Crashmarik]

Some idiots decided it was a great idea to require corn alcohol to be used as a gasoline additive.
(well not really idiots. The people that were connected and built distileries made out like bandits)

So instead having cheap animal feed, you had expensive gasoline that had less energy content than before and your food prices went up.
Brilliant.

Re: Heck yes,

[HornWumpus]

You couldn't get actual meat on the dollar menu anyhow.

Cheap is relative.

Wait till you see the price on cultured cells.

Re: Heck yes,

[Desler]

Then why is the dollar menu dead?

It's not?

And why haven't I been able to afford a steak on my birthday for five years?

Because you're shit with money?

Re:Heck yes,

[HornWumpus]

Kobe ground prime rib burgers 24x7.

...in a cup.

Re:Heck yes,

[Oligonicella]

"before long superior in taste and tone" That part's a pipe dream and an oxymoron if you're imitating meat.

Re: Heck yes,

[Sable Drakon]

Yeah, it is. Even what used to be a 1$ double cheeseburger is now a 1.50$ cheeseburger with one piece of cheese and two burger patties. Literally the cheapest thing on their menu, and it's not 1$.

Re: Heck yes,

[ShanghaiBill]

So instead having cheap animal feed, you had expensive gasoline that had less energy content than before and your food prices went up.

An obvious solution would be to vote for someone who wants to fix the problem. Not Hillary. Not Donald. So you have a choice of Gary Johnson or Jill Stein.

Re: Heck yes,

[Desler]

Nope, I've gotten a $1 cheeseburger and a $1 parfait at a local McDonalds just a couple of weeks ago.

Re:Heck yes,

[jellomizer]

I don't see why we should avoid it.
We get the food we want the nutritional requirements better on the environment and we don't need to kill a feeling animal.
I am an omnivore but I feel better if my food was better overall

Re:Heck yes,

[TooManyNames]

Why is that? Are there no grades of meat in your world?

If you set out to surpass the best quality meat available, then maybe you might have a point, but, assuming you can observe and economically reproduce what makes that meat so great, why wouldn't you be able to approach it's quality with cultured meat? At some point, given production efficiencies that would be introduced, cultured meat that closely approximates very high quality meat would be cheaper than low quality meat that's used today. At that point, you'd be comparing crappy real meat against exceptional cultured meat, so, yeah, you'd have something that, at a given price, is superior in taste and tone.

Re:Heck yes,

[TooManyNames]

In full agreement. I really don't understand why people are so opposed to cultured meat, but, then again, I don't know why people are so opposed to GM food, even in theory (though I'm not saying that there can't be bad players involved). I guess it comes down to, "it's unnatural, so it's evil!" Never mind the hypocrisy of posting a critique along those lines, or even, you know, existing.

Re:Heck yes,

[AchilleTalon]

Meat is proteins. If you want minerals and vitamins, take pills.

Re: Heck yes,

[JoeMerchant]

10% Ethanol in the gasoline also kicked up land values in some parts of the country from $250 per acre to >$2500 for the same acre just a couple of years later.

Re: Heck yes,

[JoeMerchant]

Different markets, different strategies. I'm guessing that $1 cheeseburger didn't even start with 4oz of meat... and a $1 parfait is mostly paying for the refrigeration, the stuff they squeeze out of that machine is mostly made from seaweed.

Re:Heck yes,

[Bobbox1980]

I agree, plus any lingering misgivings about eating animals will be gone.

Re:Heck yes,

[jenningsthecat]

Oddly enough, although I'm leery of GMO foods, I'd be happy to eat lab-grown meat. I know that's totally self-contradictory, but such are the vagaries of human preferences. My feelings may stem in part from factory farming practices; they are horribly cruel and cause incalculable suffering. I'd like to enjoy my meat without the accompanying feelings of guilt, and lab-grown meat promises that.

Re: Heck yes,

[jedidiah]

You're an idiot. The price of meat is not the issue. The question is whether or not you can make a completely artificial process that's cheaper than letting Elsie fend for herself in the pasture or feed Porky leftovers from the Ben and Jerry's factory.

So far, vat-o-meat hasn't worked out yet.

Perhaps when we've got the flying cars thing worked out....

Re:Heck yes,

[apoc.famine]

No antibiotics, no inhumane treatment, the exact texture, fat content, and taste that I want? Sign me the fuck up.
 
No more gristle, no more lopsided fat deposits, no more oddly shaped cuts of meat that cook too fast on one end and too slow on the other. Is it going to be weird and artificial at the start? Yep. But imagine if every cut was the exact same cut. Same cooking method, same timing, and you're done. And fucking eat it ultra-rare if you want, because it won't have pathogens in it!
 
And it WILL BE FRESH!!! Grow it as you need it. Ramp up in the summer, around holidays, and ramp down after that. No long train of animals ready for slaughter > slaughter > delivery > not enough sold > put on sale > reprint the expiration date and put on super-sale, etc. Hell, if done right you could even slow down or halt growth. You can't really do that with live animals in factory farms, but you might be able to do that with meat in a lab.

Re: Heck yes,

[Qzukk]

Do you know what they do with the left overs after squeezing the ethanol out? They sell the corn mash as animal feed. The real problem has been drought causing ranchers to cull their herds hard. Fewer cattle to supply beef means higher prices for you.

Re: Heck yes,

[Crashmarik]

BTW if you have a drought that causes ranchers to cull their herds, what does that do to the supply of beef ??

Re: Heck yes,

[deathguppie]

seriously.. if you completely forgot history ok. We were looking at a food shortage. The government could not calculate in innovation so they took in to account what was available.. They realized that if food production went below a certain level we would all die. Not having the money to maintain higher than needed food production levels they created a false need for food production in the hopes that if we needed it.. food production would be available. That was the reason for the corn-ethanol debacle. Now you can look back on it 20-20 but if you had been there looking at current food production you might have agreed that it was a good idea. Of course once in place is turned into a cash cow that should have dissipated with the need for all that corn.. but we live in an oligarchy. That's just the way things are until we vote outside the two parties.

Re: Heck yes,

[Crashmarik]

That would be the great Famine of 2005 ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re: Heck yes,

[rockout]

So you're betting that he's one of those people that's more informed than you?

Seems like a good bet, even if you're just strictly playing the odds of a random person being more informed than yourself, given your post history of highly right-leaning rhetoric. I don't trust the opinions of anyone that believes so fervently in any single ideology, be it conservative or liberal. You've lost all perspective.

Re: Heck yes,

[Crashmarik]

Seems like a good bet, even if you're just strictly playing the odds of a random person being more informed than yourself, given your post history of highly right-leaning rhetoric. I don't trust the opinions of anyone that believes so fervently in any single ideology, be it conservative or liberal. You've lost all perspective.

Ahh hell I'll ignore that your argument is nothing more than "I don't like your kind", why don't you give me some examples of how slaughtering beef lowers prices and increased grain costs raises them is ideology ?

Or was it the minimum wage comment that crawled up your ass ?

If you want to play Mr. Enlightenment have at it.

Re: Heck yes,

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Meat is awful without beef fat to flavor it.

Make a burger with fatless steak tartar and see. There's a reason unmarbled steak was rated a lower grade until anti-fat started in the 1970s. It still deserves low flavor ratings. Yicky flavor, actually.

The lab people know this and add beef fat. Just cut out the middleman and add beef fat to soy.

Re: Heck yes,

[prefec2]

In what do you base your assumptions? BTW big is not better.

Re:Heck yes,

[dbIII]

I'm not sure they really are opposed.
There's stuff called Quorn that is cultured vegetable protein and almost nobody has a problem with that. It's actually a bit of a surprise that the anti-processed foods people are happy with it. I suspect that if cultured meat becomes a product it will be treated in a similar way - avoided by those who don't want to eat it without them making much fuss.

I don't know why people are so opposed to GM food

Monsanto pissed a lot of people off and poisoned that well. It's a shame because it was starting to look like, among other things, we could be getting very cheap long shelf life vaccines made of banana.

Re: Heck yes,

[Jarik C-Bol]

Despite all that, beef cattle prices are in a damn near freefall, and not projected to recover for the next several years. Dont expect to see the prices drop much on the consumer end though, they never follow the source market right. Result is, more producers go under, because they cant make enough on current proces to continue, and it will drive the price even higher at recovery.

Re: Heck yes,

[Crashmarik]

So instead having cheap animal feed, you had expensive gasoline that had less energy content than before and your food prices went up.

Other than opportunistic benefits, the point behind gasohol was to reduce dependence on sketchy oil-producing countries.

So what you are saying is a process that consumed more energy than it produced was going to reduce our energy needs ?

Would have been far better to just promote coal liquification to reduce our imports.

Re: Heck yes,

[JohnFen]

The dollar menu is alive and well in my area.

Re: Heck yes,

[Sable Drakon]

Hilariously, I've never ever had that problem.

Re: Heck yes,

[HornWumpus]

The old school price for productive farmland was $1k/acre. For decades.

Show me an area in the USA where productive farmland was $250/acre after 1985. Not the bottom of a downspike, a steady price.

Re: Heck yes,

[HornWumpus]

Your argument is based on a false premise. Fuel is not the only product of corn grown for fuel. High protein feed is what's left of grain after you extract the carbs for alcohol.

Re: Heck yes,

[HornWumpus]

You're doing steak tartar wrong.

No big chunks of fat, but use the most marbled cut you can get.

Re: Heck yes,

[Crashmarik]

Does it raise the price of corn that would otherwise be used for feed ?

If yes, argument stands
if no, you are validated.

Re: Heck yes,

[cthulhu11]

Even before that government subsidies and other policies like free rangeland leases and advertising were artificially lowering the cost. Thing about cultured meat today is the calf serum used as a growth medium. Until the cells get grown in something not animal-based it's smoke and mirrors.

Re: Heck yes,

[Khyber]

"Meat is awful without beef fat to flavor it"

You must not know a whole lot about cooking - add fish sauce and get a beef flavor boost the likes of which you've never experienced, and the likes of which fat simply can't match.

Re:Heck yes,

[Khyber]

"no more oddly shaped cuts of meat that cook too fast on one end and too slow on the other"

That wouldn't be a problem at all if you bothered to learn culinary arts.

Re: Heck yes,

[JoeMerchant]

2005ish, Western Nebraska - non irrigated croplands, missile silos and stuff... I was looking for a wind farm play, didn't see the ethanol coming. 160 acres for $40K was not unheard of, before the ethanol thing.

Re: Heck yes,

[HornWumpus]

Shifting goalposts I see.

Corn ethanol is _not_ net negative energy.

Any demand increase will raise prices. You clearly don't understand the argument though, your yes/no test is just stupid.

Re: Heck yes,

[HornWumpus]

Non-irrigated land in western Nebraska is pasture land at best.

You can get 730 acres for $550,000 today. http://www.landwatch.com/Nebra...

Nobody is growing corn for ethanol on that land. I think that price shift is money looking for a safe place to park.

Re: Heck yes,

[JoeMerchant]

All I know is that by 2008 it was untouchable below $2500/ac, though those were the crazy days in real-estate all over...

All in all, I didn't cherish the thought of travel to western Nebraska to manage the deals, so I let the idea slide - that and the reality of "spinning fees," insurance, bank financing terms for turbines, rowdy locals that don't want change, etc. pushed me away from the wind farm idea. Still, if I had been foolish enough to sink $80K into that land, it would have turned for over $500K in just a few years.

Re: Heck yes,

[Khyber]

Apprenticed Oriental cook at age 15, provable on my fucking tax records. Try again when you're even competent in knowing who you're trying to attack you witless dick.

Re:Heck yes,

[micahraleigh]

cheaper ??

according to article a burger costs $330k.

YES!

[Anonymous Coward]

In fact, I am looking forward to it. I do not like how animals are treated, in general, and in order to provide meat for us, in particular. However, I love meat, and I can't wait for meat synthetically grown in a lab to become available. It will of course be outrageously expensive to begin with, but hopefully it will not take too long for prices to come down to something reasonable. At any rate, I'd be willing to pay a premium for it.

Re:YES!

[sexconker]

You can buy real meat today that comes from animals treated humanely, if not downright well. Yes, they're still slaughtered at some point. If you're willing to pay a premium, you can do it now.

Re:Yes!

[Rei]

Indeed. If they can get a growth environment that properly imitates natural development, they should be able to produce amazing cuts. Young tissue, electrically stimulated and stressed at whatever levels are determined to be ideal during growth, fed whatever nutrients gives it the best development, etc.

Having been vegetarian as long as I am, I probably wouldn't eat it just because the concept of eating any sort of meat just seems disgusting to me now; even vegetarian products designed to mimic meat come across as gross to me. But if lab-grown meat had been available when I was younger, I would have jumped on the chance to buy it.

Re:YES!

[Sable Drakon]

Yeah, an insane premium on a very dubious and highly inconsistent increase of quality. I'll pass, now bring me a lab burger.

Re:YES!

[Kjella]

Fantastic! But they are *humanely* slaughtered, right?

Due to religious rules (halal/kosher) quite possibly not. Though a few countries like here in Norway have a total ban on all non-stunned slaughter, but many others have exceptions including the US. Fortunately we didn't let religious dogma get in the way of animal welfare, I understand the whole "freedom of religion" but those practices don't stand above the law.

Re:YES!

[JoeMerchant]

You realize this means that you trust the lab more than you trust the butcher? Butchers have millenia of experience developing and understanding their craft - lab scientists growing edible foods, a couple of decades at best.

Re:YES!

[Solandri]

Just go hunting or fishing. Instead of the animal being raised in captivity under human domination its entire life, the animal lives and grows free to do whatever it wants for nearly all of its life. It's only last few minutes or seconds where it's dominated by humans.

Re:YES!

[sexconker]

If it's kosher, hell no. Most places should be slaughtering animals humanely and nearly instantaneously. You'll find plenty of reports of workers that enjoy abusing the animals, of course, but they're not the norm.

Re:YES!

[LunaticTippy]

My hipster friend goes in with 3 other folk and picks out a cow, has it slaughtered and butchered, they each fill a chest freezer and have a year supply of beef for a few dollars a pound. It is the best beef I've ever tasted, pastured in the coastal hills of central california. Of course you end up with a lot of cuts of meat that aren't popular.

Is it real meat?

[fustakrakich]

If so, why not eat it? The only problem is the fragile infrastructure needs to produce it, whereas farm grown meat can be grown in a pasture with relatively little assistance.

Re:Is it real meat?

[Captain Splendid]

whereas farm grown meat can be grown in a pasture with relatively little assistance.

Not at scale though.

Re:Is it real meat?

[drinkypoo]

whereas farm grown meat can be grown in a pasture with relatively little assistance.

Not at scale though.

It scales just fine if you don't put a bunch of stupid roadblocks in the way of small-scale producers. Then you get more of them, which is what you want anyway.

Re:Is it real meat?

[fustakrakich]

That is an issue for the urban folk to deal with. But who knows? For them, somebody could conceivably could invent an incubator/smoker that will stand next to the fridge or out on the back porch, so it wouldn't really be an issue at all. 3D printed meat. tick tick tick... *ding*

Re:Is it real meat?

[Nutria]

What are these stupid roadblocks in the way of small-scale producers?

Re:Is it real meat?

[fustakrakich]

You still need lots of space, but that's a problem with agriculture in general I suppose. To me, for lab grown meat to be a viable thing, the incubation and other processing would need to be done at the supermarket itself, or at home, and just feed it vegetable waste.

Re:Is it real meat?

[drinkypoo]

What are these stupid roadblocks in the way of small-scale producers?

Limitations on how many slaughterhouses can exist, for one. I'm all in favor of environmental regulations, but it needs to be feasible for producers to get their cattle to where it can be slaughtered.

Re:Is it real meat?

[Nutria]

Limitations on how many slaughterhouses can exist, for one.

Why do those regulations exist? Was it rich, urban PETA fools who didn't like the thought or smell of abattoirs in their cities?

it needs to be feasible for producers to get their cattle to where it can be slaughtered.

There's enough meat in every supermarket that I go to that there doesn't seem to be any problem with getting animals to slaughterhouses.

Re:Is it real meat?

[fustakrakich]

Ever lived downwind/stream from a slaughterhouse and its effluence?

Re:Is it real meat?

[dbIII]

Why do those regulations exist?

Barriers to entry to cut down on competition.
There's no point blaming powerless hippies when the real problem is regulatory capture.

Re:Is it real meat?

[Nutria]

Rich, urban PETA members aren't powerless hippies.

Re:Is it real meat?

[dbIII]

Versus a political donor at the state or federal level - completely powerless.
You are looking in the wrong place since rich, urban PETA members are not doing anything to stop someone setting up a meatworks in a small town a long way from where they live but regulatory capture has meant a lot of hoops to jump to keep new players out of an industry.

Re:Is it real meat?

[Nutria]

rich, urban PETA members are not doing anything to stop someone setting up a meatworks in a small town a long way from where they live

Out of sight, out of mind. (I never said they were bright, just rich and urban.)

Re:Is it real meat?

[dbIII]

You appear to have entirely missed the point.
Clearly something is preventing businesses setting up meatworks in small towns a long way from where your strawmen live so it's clearly not the strawmen.

Re:Is it real meat?

[Nutria]

Clearly something is preventing businesses setting up meatworks

Clear to you, but not to me (mostly because I've never thought about it before now).

in small towns a long way from where your strawmen live

It might be corrupt legislators and regulators. Or really big slaughterhouses might just be more economically viable than small ones. (The actual -- as opposed to stated -- preference of shoppers for supermarkets -- the bigger, the better -- over Mom and Pop grocery stores is almost certainly a driver in the demise of local abattoirs.)

Re:Is it real meat?

[dbIII]

Economically viable is not a factor when the rules prevent it going that far.
There are a lot of arbitrary rules that mean small players would need extra staff for no good reason (food safety is a good reason but it goes far beyond that). Look up "regulatory capture" for a wide range of examples over a wide range of industries. The one you may be most familiar with is taxis but the meat industry also has problems.

Clear to you, but not to me (mostly because I've never thought about it before now).

I grew up in a small town and a field trip some time in grades 1-3 was to the local meatworks so I've been thinking about it for a while. A lot of those small places were taken over by large companies and when they were shut down prospective new owners found that they were locked out of the market even with a workforce, equipment and site. At various times there has been a bit of press about it.

Better rules about political donations may start making things look a bit more like capitalism in a democracy instead of an oligarchy. It goes a bit deeper than blaming powerless hippies and moving on.

Re:Is it real meat?

[Nutria]

You keep saying "regulatory capture", but in this whole, long thread have never give an example from the meat packing industry.

Re:Is it real meat?

[drinkypoo]

Ever lived downwind/stream from a slaughterhouse and its effluence?

If the problem is that slaughterhouses stink and pollute, then you solve that problem. You don't restrict them to preserve profits for the others, which is what has been done.

Re:Is it real meat?

[drinkypoo]

The lack of meat processors is a case of regulatory capture because the big processors which have taken over the industry can lobby for regulations which will unduly affect smaller producers, which is what this thread is about.

Re:Is it real meat?

[Nutria]

But no examples of such regulations.

Re:Is it real meat?

[fustakrakich]

You don't restrict them to preserve profits for the others

Right, you treat them all the same. But I wouldn't advise just letting people open up a bunch of stinky slaughterhouses without applying strict rules of containment.

Re:Is it real meat?

[dbIII]

You can look up the regulations if you like and ponder them at length but it's probably best if you think of something you can already relate to, such as taxis, and then think about how it could apply in other industries. You may then understand why there are so many regulations and now only a few very large players in an industry that used to have a lot of competition.

Re:Is it real meat?

[Nutria]

and then think about how it could apply in other industries.

You're copping out. Tell me which laws and regulations inhibit competition in this industry.

You may then understand why there are so many regulations and now only a few very large players in an industry that used to have a lot of competition.

I voted for Reagan, twice. Even studied Economics. So I know all about how regulations hurt industry.

But it's not always "gubbment regglations". Sometimes it's lawyers+insurance companies (think of what they did to they asbestos industry). And -- shockingly -- sometimes the most aggressive and efficient businesses just get bigger and buy or drive out the rest.

Re:Is it real meat?

[dbIII]

You're copping out. Tell me which laws and regulations inhibit competition in this industry.

It varies by region obviously, so if you actually care instead of wanting to score points in some silly game you are going to have to look it up instead of "copping out" yourself.

I voted for Reagan, twice

Twice? Slow learner :) That's a joke since I wasn't in the US then and don't know who the alternative was plus a lot of stuff about Reagan didn't come out for a while.

Even studied Economics

Poor thing. The textbook I had for engineering economics had a different version of the net present worth formula for each variable, making me assume that economic students could not handle introductory high school algebra. Your pointless attempt to puff yourself up and look big has backfired. I've got no idea why you did it. I've given an example, led a horse to water, but I'm not going to do the drinking for you by hunting all over the net looking for court cases or whatever. If you think I'm a liar, fine, I can live with that.

think of what they did to they asbestos industry

I've worked with asbestos you tool. Idiots were declaring it safe while people were dying.

Re:Is it real meat?

[Nutria]

I've worked with asbestos you tool. Idiots were declaring it safe while people were dying.

People die, too, from automobiles. Lots of people. But we don't ban them.

Just like we don't ban sand, even though lots of people have caught (and died from) silicosis by spraying it and working in highly dusty conditions without protection. BTW, guess what asbestos is made of? Silicon, just like sand.

You tool.

Re:Is it real meat?

[dbIII]

Do you do balloon animals as well Pogo?
Are your really so dim to compare asbestos to sand as if it means anything? Do you compare your computer to sand as well?

I feel like I've been attacked out of the blue by a cartoon of the worst someone in one political party thinks of the opposing party instead of discussing something with a human being.
Is this a false persona for the sake of trolling? If so you got me.

Yes.

[aoeu]

Yes.

Yes!

[Anonymous Coward]

I absolutely would. I live almost entirely off meat most of the time. I like animals, but not as much as I like meat. So the ability to have meat without the ethical implications would be great.

Then there are the practical considerations. I assume that lab-grown meat could be grown nearly "perfect," in terms of flavor, texture, etc. You're not gunna grow "Choice" steak, you're gunna grow "Prime." So you could get better meat for less price, and with better health and disease controls.

There's also the fact that with control over the growing process, you wouldn't need the artificial hormones and antibiotics used in large scale meat production, which would help everyone in terms of creeping drug resistance.

Yes

[redmid17]

Yes I would. Next question?

Sure, why not?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

At present, I probably wouldn't eat cultured tissue just because it's wildly expensive and only available in teeny little bits because the cardiovascular system is there for a reason in mammals; but if the tech were worked out what possible objection would there be to it?

Cruelty-free, so long as you don't grow the brain; and quite probably a lot cleaner than the authentically-butchered-in-its-own-entrails-and-hopefully-not-too-feces-smeared natural stuff. Less chance to pick up cool parasites and stuff in the field as well.

Re:Sure, why not?

[Rei]

But what about the poor BSE? Won't somebody please think of the BSE? Quasi-living self-replicating chemicals have rights too!

Re:Sure, why not?

[JoeMerchant]

With a user name like fuzzyfuzzyfungus, I would think you would be more of a fan of the hygiene hypothesis.

Re:Sure, why not?

[fermion]

That is the issue, right, we will buy lab meat if it is cheaper. I think that if this labeled it is ok, just like farm fish or GMO. Not that it will necessarily inferior or more dangerous, just consumers need to be informed.

I also think there is a huge market for this. Many people don't eat meat for environmental or social reasons. Lab meat, as it is probably less destructive than mass market meat, will be popular. The key will be cost. What could happen is that it will take the low end of the market, and we may see a return to more traditional ranching.

Re:Sure, why not?

[dbIII]

Actually the main reason you and I don't eat it is because it's bland soft cells and not complete muscle tissue so unlikely to sell even at a cheap price.
Meat has a lot of texture and has some fat cells.
Imagine a slightly chewy jelly that tastes almost but not entirely unlike beef (no fat so very different taste) and that's apparently the state of the art so there's no point going for economy of scale yet.

Re:Sure, why not?

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

The problem is with the bacteria. We fungi have been locked in constant war with those prokaryote bastards for the better part of a billion years, so the grudges run pretty deep.

Re:Sure, why not?

[JoeMerchant]

I lichen to keep my fungi balanced with my prokaryotes, either one by themselves tends to get out of hand.

Fuck yes.

[Lisandro]

Specially if it ends up costing a fraction of the "real deal".

If ...

[angel'o'sphere]

If was traveling in a space ship to Mars: Yes.
If was living on Mars: Yes.

Otherwise: no way.

I'm not "addicted" to meat. I eat what I find tasty an what I consider ethical ok.

And no: I don't eat tofu meat Ersatz either.

Re:If ...

[dbIII]

And no: I don't eat tofu meat Ersatz either.

The problem with a lot of those things is they pretend to be meat and fail badly.
Fried tofu with sweet chilli sauce is good as it's own thing so long as you don't compare it to meat.
Mushrooms cooked in butter and pepper on toast is good as it's own thing so long as you don't compare it to bacon.

Re:If ...

[angel'o'sphere]

I like Tofu. Especially when you realize, like cheese, you have 1000s of variations of it.

But using it as Ersatz sausages or meat makes no sense (to me). I like it in Salads, e.g. a friend of mine is married to a Chinese, she is making european style salads with a special Tofu, the Tofu looks and feels like mushrooms (the thin as leaves one, can't find the name of them, usually black but in Thailand they have similar looking ones in white, looks a bit like kelp) ... the taste is, well special Tofu taste, would be a waste to make fake meat from it.

I mean: they even try to put spices into the fake sausages that it tastes like sausage instead of tofu.

Re:If ...

[dbIII]

I mean: they even try to put spices into the fake sausages that it tastes like sausage instead of tofu.

Yes I've had the misfortune of eating something like that. Fake hot dogs that seemed pointless.

Re:If ...

[dbIII]

I'll add that I used to take various soy meat substitutes on hiking trips when shelf life was an issue even with salami - bad idea even when very hungry. Full vegetarian in such situations instead of pretend meat seemed to be the answer until freeze-dried food improved. I still can't understand how people can put up with the ersatz soy meat, but someone must like it.

Re:If ...

[angel'o'sphere]

For hiking perhaps dried meat is an option?
It is difficult to get in our times ...

Where ddid you go that salami was not surviving? Sounds like very humid jungle or something similar :D

Re:If ...

[dbIII]

True but it didn't last well with high humidity, properly sealed freeze dried stuff changed all that but vegetarian curries solved the problem in the meantime.

Where ddid you go that salami was not surviving? Sounds like very humid jungle or something similar :D

Yes subtropical and tropical rainforests with a bit of heat and humidity even in most of the "winter". Hanging up with good airflow some might survive but in a backpack they sweat fat and go mouldy.
These days cheap vacuum packed meals do the job, though for some reason I get the vegetarian curry ones despite eating a fair bit of meat normally.

Re:If ...

[angel'o'sphere]

If they sweet fat and get a white/grey surface outside of the skin, it is usually not mold but the slats that come outside.

But I guess in such an environment you better be safe than sorry :D

Happy hiking!

Re:If ...

[dbIII]

Blue stuff I seem to remember - annoying, but it did get me to try out food beyond the normal meat and two vegetables.

How does it taste?

[CrimsonAvenger]

I'm assuming it tastes like chicken, in which case put me down for "yes".

If it tastes like beef, well, that's another yes.

Pork? mmmm... No, I think not.

Rubber? Definite no for that.

Any other options to be considered? Doubt they'd start with alligator (which would be a "yes") or salmon (another "yes") or elephant ("maybe?")....

Re:How does it taste?

[JoeMerchant]

The day they can do wild-caught blue-fin tuna, I'll try. The main thing I hate about sushi is the parasite roulette aspect. Lab grown sushi does have some potential in that area.

Re:How does it taste?

[NovaDenizen]

The existence of cultured meats raises the distinct possibility that cultured port could eventually be considered kosher or halal, since it would be so far removed from any actual pig. That represents a huge market opportunity.

Re:Why not?

[houstonbofh]

If it's cheap and healthy and tastes good.. Why not?

Trust. You can verify the cheap. You can verify the tastes good. The healthy? You gotta trust the same guys that pushed through the GMO whitewash labeling bills.

Yes

[NotInHere]

I am not as radical as most vegetarians about this stuff with being cruel to animals and stuff, but I do care about the environment, and having lab grown meat on the table would mean that we could use the resources on the earth more effectively. Already now we know that the developing countries rather shouldn't adopt the meat eating habits of the western world.

So yes, its a good idea. Would I eat it? If it will taste as good as real meat, then yes.

So definitely a thing to look forward to.

Re:for many, likely no choice

[houstonbofh]

And it will be "hidden" in already prepared foods. Like McDonald's and the quality meat they serve.

Better Off Ted

[fahrbot-bot]

Phil and Lem grew meat in the lab in Season 1, Episode 2, "Heroes". From some of the better quotes

• Jerome [tasting meat made in lab]: It tastes familiar.
• Ted: Beef?
• Jerome: No.
• Linda: Chicken? We'll take chicken.
• Ted: What does it taste like?
• Jerome: Despair.
• Ted: Is it possible it just needs salt?

Eventually.

[skids]

At fIrst I'd only eat a bit here and there and let other people pig out on it for a few years so they come down with any issues first.
(I've already pulled by weight as guinea pig by over-consuming artificial sweeteners)

That's a silly number to trust.

[bistromath007]

Watch that 20% balloon if it ever gets cheaper than the real thing. There are people on food stamps and in college just waiting for this, even if it sucks. Just about everyone will try it, and if it's not total garbage, I'd bet about 80% stick with it. That number will probably wind up fluctuating in lockstep with unemployment rates.

Re:That's a silly number to trust.

[LunaticTippy]

TVP works out to about a dollar a pound for me (prepared) although dried beans are much cheaper. I eat both for protein even though I'm rich. For various reasons many poor folk don't. I'm not sure why you think lab meat will alter this math.

Cheaper ???

[Crashmarik]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sci...

215,000 british pounds for a hamburger.

Re:Cheaper ???

[Intron]

What would your laptop with 4GB memory have cost 20 years ago?

Re:Cheaper ???

[Crashmarik]

What did my car cost 40 years ago in constant dollars ?

Re:Cheaper ???

[Crashmarik]

P.S. Who uses a 4 gig of ram laptop. 8 is a minimum 16 preferred. 4 is what id use on a tablet.

Re:Cheaper ???

[TooManyNames]

Come on dude, you're obviously comparing an essentially mature technology against one that was still rapidly developing. Once Moore's law has reached its end, computing hardware prices will stabilize for the performance offered similar to what's happened with your car.

Lab grown meat is obviously still in the prototype phase right now, and pricing reflects that. Once economies of scale are introduced, and production efficiencies are realized, price per volume will quite predictably plummet. This is basic economics stuff right here.

Re:Cheaper ???

[Desler]

Nowhere close to that unless you were intentionally paying nearly a magnitude more for your RAM than market price.

Re:Cheaper ???

[Crashmarik]

Duuuuuuude just how many technologies can you name that have doubled in performance every 18 months for 50 years ?

I can only think of 1.

Re:Cheaper ???

[Dragonslicer]

What did my car cost 40 years ago in constant dollars ?

Unless you're driving a really shitty 30-year-old car, nothing close to as advanced as your car existed 40 years ago.

Re:Cheaper ???

[TooManyNames]

Well, for starters, you don't necessarily need an exponential curve like that displayed for integrated circuits. There are numerous products that start off expensive individually, due to exorbitant sunk R&D costs, but come down in price drastically -- basically in a step function -- before stabilizing. For example, pretty much every prescription drug manufactured.

If you're wanting other examples of exponential improvement, though, how about DNA sequencing? Or how about medical scanning, like brain scanning? If you can't think of any other examples, you're not thinking hard enough (or just willfully ignoring other examples)... That's on you.

Re:Cheaper ???

[Crashmarik]

Well, for starters, you don't necessarily need an exponential curve like that displayed for integrated circuits

In other words you chose a really crappy example that wasn't applicable.

The rest is you spouting wishful thinking that somehow this will get cheaper than the natural product in the real future.

Re:Cheaper ???

[Crashmarik]

Advanced ?

In 76 I had a Lincoln Continental Mark, in 78 I had a Corvette Anniversary edition.

I doubt I could buy any car made today that had the crashworthyness of the Lincoln. To get the performance of the Vette would cost me 6 times what that car went for.

Good job not understanding what the word performance means.

Re:Cheaper ???

[TooManyNames]

No. If you'll recall, I'm not the one who used ICs as an example. That was Intron. You argued against that example, and I just ran with it. That said, it wasn't a bad example, since it pretty much contradicted the point you were making flat out.

The rest is you just being intentionally obtuse because you don't want to admit that you're wrong. But, you're still wrong. Wrong Wrong Wrongity Wrong :)

Re:Cheaper ???

[Anonymous Coward]

In all fairness, given Brexit that's probably going to be fairly accurate and not at all a bad price.

Re:Cheaper ???

[Crashmarik]

I just ran with it

Good to see people thinking for themselves.

since it pretty much contradicted the point you were making flat out.

And not only are Wrong Wrong Wrongity Wrong, you don't have the intelligence to understand why.

Re:Cheaper ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Your car was a dangerous piece of shit compared with today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uddZRY_WVw

(almost guaranteed skull fractures, possibility of death for the rear passenger)

vs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NcbnqzgRts

(everyone survives with minor cuts and abrasions)

Re:Cheaper ???

[Crashmarik]

I can't even imagine how much a car with ABS, Traction Control, Electronic Stability Control, Airbags, CD/MP3/FM Radio, Electronic Ignition Lockout/Transponder Key, Electronic Direct Fuel Injection, Electronic Ignition, Coil On Plug, Catalytic Cleaned Exhaust, CVT, LED tail-lights, Xenon headlamps, rear shoulder belts, Full-Time All Wheel Drive, Factory Radials, 5 year coolant, and manufacturer recommended 10,000 mile oil changes would have cost in 1976.

Catalytic converter 1973
Fuel Injection 1920s
Electronic ignition 1940s
All Wheel Drive early 1900s

I see why you post AC

Re:Cheaper ???

[Crashmarik]

The biggest difference with modern cars is their ability to keep you the passenger alive through crashes, which older vehicles would save the car (mostly) but more likely kill you the passenger.

There is a kernel of truth to that but it's offset by the fact that recent cars are lighter to meet fuel efficiency standards. I've crashed more cars than I care to talk about (Did you think I picked my username at random ?) Most of the benefit from the current vintage comes from airbags. That's offset by the interiors being less spacios and the frames being flimsier. I had a crash in my prior vehicle where the airbag saved me but only because the dash was close enough for me to pound into it. On an older car that simply wouldn't have been a problem.

Re: Cheaper ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously? Are you kidding?

You're on Slashdot, so I have to assume you know a little bit about high tech.

In many cases I can think of that has high development costs - think very large scale projects that generate high levels of R&D where the technology is still transitioning from adoption to maturity - the product trends to start out at a very high cost, often as a bespoke solution, capturing the value it represents. Over time, with better manufacturing, improved tech, enhanced innovation, etc, it becomes productised and then commoditised and we can buy it for cents on the dollar. This applies to most things I can think of.

The mobile phone; any large scale software tech - CRM systems, ERP systems, banking systems; even non-tech high innovation offerings like professional services from management consultancies - BPR, analytics; and yes, even the automobile, if you go back to pre-Ford days would (I don't know, but I'm confident enough in this basic trend to not be bothered to look it up) have been staggeringly expensive.

You know, it's ok to hold opinions on something, even in spite of all evidence provided to you, but it's really poor form to reject all evidence, claim that someone else is wrong while providing only one example of evidence to back up your case, which, not only thoroughly debunked based on context, turns out to be wrong in point of fact too... and then, rather than taking it on board or addressing the point, deciding to throw ad hominem attacks.

Kinda makes me sad.

Re:Cheaper ???

[dbIII]

I doubt I could buy any car made today that had the crashworthyness of the Lincoln

Which is just as well - run it into anything solid and YOU are the crumple zone.
Also a bit of a bad example since that was just before Detroit found it out could not keep on selling 1940s technology without the Japanese, Germans - even Italians and British eating their lunch. When Leyland and Fiat are making more advanced stuff than is made locally that's a bit of a slap in the face with a rotting fish.

Re:Cheaper ???

[dbIII]

And completely wrong.
Look up tensile testing to get some ideas about energy being absorbed - it's the area under the curve. A lot of deformation means a lot of energy being absorbed (instead of transmitted to the driver and passengers) and the high strength low alloy stuff used today is actually stronger than that stuff in the older cars anyway. It's heavy gauge because it's not strong enough to make it thinner.
Nice car, but if you run into a tree at speed you are fucked.

Re:Cheaper ???

[Blaskowicz]

In Europe where fuel efficiency was a thing even post-WW2 (what with the war and imported oil) the cars have been increasing in weight for the last two decades.

Re:Cheaper ???

[Crashmarik]

I doubt I could buy any car made today that had the crashworthyness of the Lincoln

Which is just as well - run it into anything solid and YOU are the crumple zone.

You aren't very on this whole car thing are you ? Last time you were pontificating on varieties of Model A and you couldn't identify which was which.

Also a bit of a bad example since that was just before Detroit found it out could not keep on selling 1940s technology without the Japanese, Germans - even Italians and British eating their lunch. When Leyland and Fiat are making more advanced stuff than is made locally that's a bit of a slap in the face with a rotting fish.

Detroit was selling to demand that was just fine, their lack of good quality control was their big killer.

Please The tech that killed detroit was quality control

Re:Cheaper ???

[Crashmarik]

From what to what, and relative to what ?

Re: Cheaper ???

[Crashmarik]

I suppose that's why we are all navigating the world on our Segways

Re:Cheaper ???

[ceoyoyo]

What does a hand made concept car cost?

Re:Cheaper ???

[Crashmarik]

You do realize that concept cars are so infrequently put into production that never is a valid adjective ?

So back to the original premise.

1. There is nothing to indicate the production of cultured meat will follow the price curve of semiconductors.
2. Cows are remarkable machines for producing cows. There is little indication that we can make a better machine for turning grass into cow.

Re:Cheaper ???

[wolrahnaes]

In 76 I had a Lincoln Continental Mark, in 78 I had a Corvette Anniversary edition.

I doubt I could buy any car made today that had the crashworthyness of the Lincoln.

Just go on to Youtube and look for any of the many old vs. new crash test videos. Sure, the older car tends to take less damage (though not always, some of those older chassis designs crumpled in horrific ways), but it clearly passes that damage on to the fleshy meatbags inside when that happens.

Here's a slightly later model Continental Sedan to demonstrate (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uddZRY_WVw), those behaved pretty much like any other larger cars of the era in a crash.

If you only care about the car being cheap to fix, yeah the old cars win, but if you care about reducing injuries to the people in the car the new cars have it by miles.

To get the performance of the Vette would cost me 6 times what that car went for.

A '78 Corvette had a base price of $9351, and the optional L-82 motor added $525. If you actually mean the package with the silver special anniversary paint that's another $779 in mandatory options. To put it simply we're definitely talking about a $10-12k car in 1978 dollars. In 2016 dollars that'd be close to $37,000.

That car with its 220 HP pushing 3500ish pounds through a four speed stick, depending on source, took around 6.5 seconds to get to 60 MPH, ran the quarter mile in around 15.3 seconds at around 95 MPH, and topped out around 130 MPH, give or take margin of error.

My current car, a Mk7.5 Ford Fiesta ST (aka ST180 in some markets) with 200HP pulling 2700 lbs through a six speed stick, does 6.7 seconds to 60 MPH, quarter mile in 15.2 at 93 MPH, and tops out around 140 MPH. You can go to any Ford dealer and have one out the door for $21-23k, or a bit over half the inflation-adjusted value of your Corvette, and the performance is close enough at the drag strip that driver error with the stick shift is likely to be more of a factor than anything else for either vehicle. I'd be willing to bet anything that the Fiesta would run circles around the Corvette around a track with turns as well simply because '70s American cars were never exactly known for their handling.

If we instead take the comparison up to the equivalent price range, the upper $30k range will easily put you in to a Mustang GT Performance Pack or a Camaro SS, both of which offer mid-400 horsepower ratings pushing about 3600 lbs and both will get you in to the 4 second 0-60 range and low 13 (or even high 12) second quarter miles at over 110 MPH. If we bring used cars in to the equation that kind of money will easily get a C6 Corvette Z06 with a 500 horsepower LS7 engine, which is an absolute beast of a car that will hold its own with a lot of proper supercars.

So no, you wouldn't have to spend six times as much. You would barely even have to spend more than half as much. If you wanted to spend even the same amount you'd be in to an entirely different world of performance.

By modern standards pretty much nothing older than the late '80s is really fast.

Re:Cheaper ???

[HornWumpus]

American cars have also gotten heavier since about 90.

Mostly from rollover crash standards for the pillars and roof. It's also why you can't see around the a-pillars anymore. Congress might have expected the car companies to use stronger steel structures, but they used more of the folded sheet metal instead. The a-pillars used to be called 'invisible' as they were narrower than the distance between most people's eyes.

Re:Cheaper ???

[Khyber]

Only one?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Plenty of other techs have outpaced even Moore's law.

Re:Cheaper ???

[Khyber]

"And completely wrong."

I bet if we took my old '79 LTD and put it against any other typical passenger vehicle made today in a head-on collision, I'd walk away while you'd be a smear on the pavement.

Re:Cheaper ???

[dbIII]

Yes you use the other vehicle as a crumple zone if the other vehicle is properly designed. If you hit a tree you are fucked while someone in a more modern vehicle walks away.
I suggest seeing if you can find a first year text on materials science in a library or online to get some ideas about what the differences are between strength and toughness plus a bit about how impact energy is absorbed. You'll learn about cool things such as bullet proof vests actually being made out of plastic instead of steel.

Re:Cheaper ???

[dbIII]

Last time you were pontificating on varieties of Model A

I've written here about the epicyclic gearbox of the Model T which I got to play with way back as an undergraduate but I have not written anything here about the Model A, you must be mixing me up with someone else.

As for the other thing, nowhere near the only factor, GM was selling stuff based around a 1937 Chevy block in the second half of the 1970s - so simple even a kid could understand it (so easy to replace a head gasket) but well and truly trumped by technology available just about everywhere else. That's about when the cold winds of capitalism blew on Ford and GM and they ran to the government for protection against their own failure to compete.
Why blame quality control when the design itself is found wanting even in perfect condition?

All that is a distraction. We appear to be using separate definitions of "crashworthyness", so please keep in mind that the one I'm using is the standard one about occupant safety and not bending panels. The older vehicles fall short on that since it wasn't so important a design factor until the last few decades.

Re:Cheaper ???

[Khyber]

"You'll learn about cool things such as bullet proof vests actually being made out of plastic instead of steel."

Shitty bullet proof vests. GOOD ones are made from human hair or spider silk.

But I ACTUALLY HAVE TO STUDY THIS KIND OF STUFF *WHEN I DESIGN FOR EARTHQUAKE PROOFED EQUIPMENT* like my LED lighting.

Try again?

I've also hit many trees. Very few are actually left standing from an older vehicular impact - they perform the same crumple zone action as your shitter modern cars.

Re:Cheaper ???

[wolrahnaes]

I Still have that vette well maintained.

If you want to put money where your mouth is, I'll be glad to race

If by some chance you happen to be within a reasonable distance of Northeast Ohio I'd be up for it. Dragway 42 is my "home track" but it's been closed for renovations for two years and doesn't look to be reopening this year either, so I guess Norwalk's the next closest. Mid-Ohio as far as tracks with turns. I don't know if BeaveRun is still open to cars, I heard they might have gone karts-only. Or of course there are a lot of nice twisty roads outside of the major metro areas where some unofficial runs could easily occur.

Re:Cheaper ???

[VisceralLogic]

I've also hit many trees. Very few are actually left standing from an older vehicular impact - they perform the same crumple zone action as your shitter modern cars.

You should stop drinking and driving.

Current faux-meat substitues

[slew]

People will eat it if it is cheaper and reasonable tasting.

My issue is that I'm old-school and think that generally meat tastes better on the fatty side and cooked on the bone, but I'm probably in the minority. For those that prefer sterile low-fat off-the-bone preparations, it'll probably get good enough, soon enough.

I suspect that early on it won't be that much different than the relationship of Crab and Surimi/Krab. Maybe it will get better over time.

In China, the spread of Buddhism basically lead to all sorts of mock-meat products (mostly made of tofu, tempeh, fried-gluten) which people eat regularly even if not vegetarian, so as long as it's tasty, I suspect this lab-grown meat will have enough of a following until it gets entrenched and you can't even order the real thing for some dishes anymore except in a high-end restaurant.

Think about it this way, most people that eat a fair amount of meat on a regular basis will generally unquestioningly eat a sausage or hot-dog when given an opportunity. I think that says it all.

But if the purveyors of this lab-meat try to tackle it from the premium eco-angle, I suspect it will get crushed like synthetic diamonds (which even though are superior in every possible metric to conflict or deBeers diamonds, are perceived to be less desirable and thus unmarketable).

Re:Current faux-meat substitues

[apoc.famine]

Is there any reason they can't make it fatty and on the bone?
 
I assume if it's lab-grown, it sill needs nutrients. Still needs a circulatory system of a sorts, nervous system to twitch and build muscle, etc. Might as well grow a tube of muscle on a bone with marrow in it, and hook all that shit up. You can control the texture, the fat content, marbling, etc. That's where I see this being amazing.
 
If every cut was essentially the "perfect cut", how awesome would that be? I've had good meat, and I've had plenty of bad meat. All the marbling on one end, nothing on the other. Bits of gristle in it. If I could get a perfect cut every time for the same or less than I pay now, I'd happily take that. If they can pull that off, they change the world.

Re: Why not?

[bistromath007]

I don't trust them, but I do trust the many scientists saying it's not a problem. GMO crops are a good thing. The problem is what Monsanto specifically does with them. Facilitating the use of toxic pesticide and introducing DRM to the fucking food supply is comic book evil. Get rid of those assholes, not GMO in general.

You mean McD's isn't already lab grown?!

[Derekloffin]

Color me shocked :P

taste!!

[zlives]

i would definitely try it if it was "safe" and see if it tastes just as good, if so why not?!

If I can grow my own..

[WolfgangVL]

Then hell yes. I've been waiting for this ever since I saw Leeloo Dallas use a microwave. CHEEK-ON!

How does it compare to GMO food?

[Snotnose]

I don't have a problem with GMO food, but IMHO vat grown meat is a huge departure from what we usually eat. I'd try it, but I'd probably be cautious eating a lot of it until maybe 10-20 years after it came on the market.

Then again, according to the insurance companies there's a 50% chance I'll be dead in 15 years.

Re:How does it compare to GMO food?

[skam240]

I don't have a problem with gmo produce but it seems to me to be a far bigger departure from what we usually eat then lab grown meat. They're not genetically changing the the meat as far as I understand it, they're just finding out ways to grow muscle tissue without all the extra baggage. Meanwhile we have crops being engineered to be resistant to highly toxic pesticides.

Absolutely

[penguinoid]

Eventually, lab-grown meat-like mystery goo will be better tasting, cheaper, healthier, disease/parasite-free, nicely textured, and more conveniently shaped compared to meat grown from real live animals tortured in cramped, feces-covered pens. Also when compared to grass-fed, free-range, hippie-approved animals. Everyone will be eating it except for a few crazy people.

Of course, in the beginning it will be over-priced, foul-tasting paste.

Re: Why not?

[Nutria]

Facilitating the use of toxic pesticide

As opposed to non-toxic pesticide? And because there was so little pesticide used before "Monsanto"?

Much better nowadays!

[MetricT]

I tried my first veggie burger about 20 years ago, and I remember wondering when the FDA started considering sawdust a vegetable...

Now, I eat Gardein teriyaki chick'n and a few others quite regularly. I'm still waiting for the whole "cheaper than meat" part to kick in though.

If you haven't had them yet, give them a try, you'll be surprised, and once they get costs down, it'll change the world.

Re:Much better nowadays!

[DNS-and-BIND]

I had one accidentally once and it didn't taste anything like meat. Besides, being a vegetarian is all about being more evolved than other humans and telling us off for being cruel monsters. It is very satisfying. If you're going to be a veggie then why even eat fake meat? It takes away from your moral superiority.

Re:Much better nowadays!

[skam240]

Yes, some one who is a vegetarian MUST be out to attack your meat eating ways and could ONLY being doing it to feel morally superior. I happily eat meat and can tell you you're being ridiculous. Yes, there is the occasional vegetarian asshole who like to demonize an entire group of people for disagreeing with them but there's meat eaters like you who do literally the exact same thing.

Re:Much better nowadays!

[dbIII]

I had one accidentally once and it didn't taste anything like meat

That's sort of the point with edible ones since it's never coming close. The "burger" name is a bit of a joke when it's a vege fritter, falafel or whatever and probably wouldn't sound bad on a menu under a more accurate name.

Re:Much better nowadays!

[HornWumpus]

No meat there so no problem.

Re:No

[Barny]

Sorry friend, can't do that.

As for the big question, absolutely not. No food from a laboratory should be eaten, ever. When they bring this tech to factories and 'farms' then yes, I will eat it without a qualm. The moment food is put into a lab, it ceases to be food and becomes an experiment.

Re:Why not?

[Opportunist]

Well, you're at the same ground with real meat now. Do you really know where it comes from? What the animal ate? Whether it was bombarded with antibiotics and hormones?

How much do you know today about the steak you're eating?

Re:No

[Opportunist]

Mmmmm.... turkey....

The grain alcohol didn't really raise food prices

[rsilvergun]

not very much anyway. What made food prices spike was George Bush Jr deregulating the commodities market. You used to have to take possession of a commodity before you could sell/trade in it. Bush Jr did away with that. It's up there with Iraq and New Orleans for worst things he did in his presidency. Now we've got billionaires skimming 20% off the top of our food supply while adding no value/security to the farmers. They're just rent seeking parasites.

Re:for many, likely no choice

[Barny]

Ah, there is a problem here. You imply McDonald's makes food. They don't, they make profits and stuff that makes me sick.

Re:No

[HornWumpus]

I have four carrots (vegetarians) and one carrot with halo (vegan) painted on my smoker.

You know you want a rib...even better a smoked hog jowl. Nice spicy rub, smoke ring, homemade blackberry, chocolate BBQ sauce...you know you want two or three...some nice jalapeno corn bread, made with lard and covered in browned melted cheese...corn on the cob covered in butter...Czech style pilsner...(repeat till tired).

You know you want one, you can eat just one...

Re:Price of exotic meats will drop

[HornWumpus]

I want ethical long pork!

Re:Why not?

[houstonbofh]

Well, you're at the same ground with real meat now. Do you really know where it comes from? What the animal ate? Whether it was bombarded with antibiotics and hormones?

How much do you know today about the steak you're eating?

Actually, quite a lot. You can buy meat directly and have it butchered if you want. Or buy from a butcher that sources from a known location. It takes a bit of work, a little more money, and a large freezer, but it can be done. There is a live chicken farm close to me, and the chicken really does taste better. So do the eggs.

If and when

[TheRealQuestor]

If this does in fact come to a store near me, and I am still actually able to taste things [I am slowly losing my sense of taste] I would give it a try. I don't really care where my meat comes from as long as it tastes good to me at the time and if I eventually lose my sense of taste then it won't really matter to me at all and I'd actually prefer not having to kill the planet and a bunch of animals to feed me. So yah, sure, I'd give it a shot.

Re:I'd eat *good* lab meat...

[HornWumpus]

They already have 'immortal' liver cells. They use them in artificial livers.

'immortal' liver cell = a certain type of liver cancer.

If a cell divides in a bucket, it's likely to have it's growth regulation unhooked. Maybe not technical a cancer cell...but I bet the guy that cooks it up knows _all_ about cancer cell division.

I Want To Download & Print My Meat.

[zenlessyank]

Lexmark Meat Printer $199 @ Wal-Mart. Get'em while they are hot!!

Re:Nope

[Opportunist]

Yuck! I would never eat human meat!

I mean ... uh ... look, squirrel!

I don't see what the big deal is.

[PJ6]

People eat McDonald's. They eat that, they'll eat anything.

Yup

[Ol Olsoc]

I owuld absolutely eat lab grown meat.

I am a happy carnivore, and that is what people are designed to eat along with our veggies, but I'm also an animal lover. To have lab grown meat would be to eliminate the least pleasant part of the process.

As well, people who like to eat exotic critters will be able to eat Wombat meat, People that believe eating the penises of animals puts lead in their pencils will be able to eat lab grown rhinoceros dingus. Why cannibals..... nah, let's not go there.

But seriously, this should remove any ethical vegan objections, as the animals that contribute the meat stock won't be harmed.

Furthermore, We might try growing lab grown Rhino horn, or Elephant tusks.

How long after this is feasible...

[tlambert]

How long after this is feasible... will there be places you can buy "people steaks"?

Would it be unethical, if the person who provided the cell line was still alive?

Re: Why not?

[bistromath007]

There are plenty of pesticides, including many natural ones, which are not harmful to humans. They're just not nearly as effective. The thing about toxic pesticides is that the cure seems worse than the disease. If it's on the food, we're eating it.

Re:Price of exotic meats will drop

[Ol Olsoc]

I want ethical long pork!

Umm, I suppose you could. I hear meat grown from cute puppies is also high on the list. hehe

YES

[MichielvanReenen]

most definitely

Re:Why not?

[JoeMerchant]

I think they're decades away from "tastes good." Sure, you can get used to it, like SPAM, but when it's presented side by side with the real thing, it will be obvious which is which, and it will take decades of forcing this down childrens' throats before grown people actually prefer it.

Re: Why not?

[JoeMerchant]

The argument goes that you can use less toxic pesticide, or something like that... I think what they really mean is that the toxic pesticides you use with GMOs cost less than what you'd have to use with non-GMOs.

Monsanto et. al. are entrenched, nothing short of bloody revolution is going to get rid of them, and they'll probably be the first to rise from the ashes after a major event. Consistent grass-roots political pressure? We've barely managed to get rid of the draft, slavery, and disenfranchisement of 51% the population that way - the people don't have the attention span to notice what Monsanto et. al. are up to.

I would rather eat it than the real thing too

[aliquis]

But then again I'm vegan and haven't eaten meat for ~30 years and animal products for half my life (37 as of ~today.)

As long as it's grown in animal broth of some form I of course won't eat it and to me it won't make much difference though it may use up some left-overs then I guess. It would had to be feed nutrients of synthetic origin or vegetarian origin but then there's a cell aspect.

I'm a person who have had a hard time deciding whatever to eat mushrooms or not =P

But it no new cells are added into the mix but I guess they may be occasionally .. I don't know. Then again do I even need the product?

But a pure protein source is of course nice as is B12 & D3 vitamin and sources of EPA and DHA fatty acids.

Yeah, but

[RightwingNutjob]

it'll probably taste like shit, so only if there's no real stuff around. It's unscientific, but fresh tomatoes from my own plants taste better than even 'local' farmers market stuff, free range eggs taste better than factory farm stuff, and my assumption is that the large scale fabrication of lab grown meat will be driven by cost and safety (in some order of precedence), not by taste.

Re:Yeah, but

[skam240]

Yeah, but as some one else stated above, people eat McDonald's. If it only amounts to cheap protein for the masses it still has a lot of potential to offer in terms of cost, efficiency, and health.

Re:Yeah, but

[dbIII]

It's unscientific, but fresh tomatoes from my own plants taste better than even 'local' farmers market stuff

Scientists have been saying that as well. You can let them ripen more and if you are growing a non-commercial variety it's been bred for taste and not yield and how well it handles shipping. There are efforts at producing commercial varieties that taste like the "heirloom" tomato breeds but without genetic modification it's a slow process.

Re:Yeah, but

[HornWumpus]

That and there are no farmers at the farmers market. Just people with pickups that buy a load of vegetables at the same wholesaler that supplies your grocery.

Re:Yeah, but

[dbIII]

At your "farmers market" maybe, not mine where there is a lot of stuff grown nearby, an advantage of being in a bit of a backwater I suppose. The tomato thing applies all over the west for the reasons I've stated. The "heirloom" varieties are not grown at a large scale commercially and are relatively fragile for the small growers to handle so they rarely bother either.

Re:Yeah, but

[HornWumpus]

CA central valley grows a ton of vegetables etc. But those farms are big businesses.

The farmers markets here are almost all people hustling up some cash. Not actual farmers.

If you're willing to pay, you can get heirloom tomatoes at the store. But they taste like ass as they were also picked green.

I don't grow anything in the garden unless I just can't get equivalents. It's mostly Tomatoes and Trainwreck. A few beans and corn. Fruit trees are another issue, there is nothing like a really ripe plum.

Sustainability

[manu0601]

Environment impact of eating meat with growing population is not sustainable. Distant future looks bleak, with no meat at all (at least at an affordable price).

Cultured meat seems the only option to retain meat in our diet in the future, hence I am all in favor of it.

Re:Sustainability

[dbIII]

It looks like beef is going to be resource limited a lot in the future, pork not so much.

Re:Sustainability

[manu0601]

The problem with pork is handling its shit. But if someday we get smart, it could replace chemical fertilizer for farming.

Do We Have A Choice?

[jsepeta]

My guess is no.

Re:Price of exotic meats will drop

[gumbi west]

eating bald eagle, just like George Washington

Yes, make it taste *better* than meat

[HalAtWork]

If it's lab grown then engineer it to taste better, even at the cost of healthiness. Then introduce low fat variants

Im vegan, and would have no interest in lab grown

[walterbyrd]

I went vegan about two years ago. I have never eaten better.

No interest in eating meat, lab grown or otherwise.

It was a good idea at first

[Solandri]

See, during the Great Depression, the U.S. didn't produce enough food to feed everyone. People went hungry, or even starved. To prevent that from ever happening again, the government introduced agricultural subsidies to guarantee there's always an oversupply of food. That's why we pay farmers to not farm - so that they don't sell their farmland to a condo developer, so if a blight makes a field unusable in another part of the country, their farmland is ready to produce at a moment's notice.

Anyhow, this oversupply meant the price of food cratered (supply > demand does that), and farmers were losing their shirts. So the government instituted a program where it would buy up all the crop at a guaranteed price, then the buyers could buy it from the government. This worked at stabilizing prices so the farmers could stay in business, but it still left a huge oversupply - mostly corn. So the government had to figure out what to do with all that excess corn.

Some of it got shipped overseas as foreign aid. Some of it got turned into cheap meal for cattle, since Americans love beef. An enterprising scientists figured out how to convert it into high fructose syrup, which could substitute for sucrose since sugar cane only grows in Florida and Hawaii and we'd otherwise be importing most of it.

And during the 1973 Arab Oil Embargo, someone said, "hey, what if we converted it to alcohol and used it as a substitute for gasoline?"

It made sense then. This was a sunk cost - the money and energy to grow the corn had already been spent. We weren't getting it back. So anything we could do with the corn to recoup some of those sunk costs made more sense than letting it rot in grain silos allowing the rodent population to increase.

So converting excess corn into ethanol makes sense. But then the corn lobby got its hands on the program and now we grow corn for the explicit purpose of converting it to ethanol. Which makes no sense since corn is a lousy crop for converting into ethanol.

Re:It was a good idea at first

[Crashmarik]

Sure, during the Great Depression lots of things weren't bad ideas. Let's face it though, things were really broke and anything that didn't actually break things worse wasn't a bad idea.

Re:It was a good idea at first

[Hognoxious]

Silly question - why not grow sugar beet? Goes well in a temperate climate.

Re:It was a good idea at first

[HornWumpus]

Can't compete with cane sugar without subsidies or import duties.

If you see sugar beats being grown, you have a government supported industry. Yes that includes Germany and their sugar beats.

Sugar cane grows on marginal land, planting beats ties up good land.

Re:It was a good idea at first

[Khyber]

"sugar cane only grows in Florida and Hawaii"

Sugar cane grows all over the fucking place. Texas, Arkansas, Tennessee, all over the south. I've grown sugar cane in every state I've lived in excepting California, where I can just walk over to the Mexican market or local Farmer's Market and buy the stuff directly (That means it's also grown here in California.)

Re:It was a good idea at first

[erapert]

So the lesson here is to keep the government from meddling if we want to avoid asinine situations?

Would you eat?

[Ryanrule]

Yes!

No

[prefec2]

No. Nope. Non. Nein. Njet.

How Goldman Sachs Created the Food Crisis

[CrashNBrn]

How Goldman Sachs Created the Food Crisis

In 1991, Goldman bankers, led by their prescient president Gary Cohn, came up with a new kind of investment product, a derivative that tracked 24 raw materials, from precious metals and energy to coffee, cocoa, cattle, corn, hogs, soy, and wheat. They weighted the investment value of each element, blended and commingled the parts into sums, then reduced what had been a complicated collection of real things into a mathematical formula that could be expressed as a single manifestation, to be known henceforth as the Goldman Sachs Commodity Index (GSCI).

Re:The grain alcohol didn't really raise food pric

[CrashNBrn]

Almost every president since Reagan has deregulated multiple facets of big-business and the stock markets. Although I'm not sure about Bush Sr, nor Obama.

McDonalds and Hot Dogs

[zifn4b]

We already eat hot dogs and whatever McDonalds puts in their burgers, how could lab grown meat be any worse?

Depends

[nospam007]

"Would You Eat Lab-Grown Meat?"

Only if it gets billions of government subsidies, violates animals rights, ruins surface water, damages the environment and the air and is filled with hormones and antibiotics and fat giving you heart-attacks, just like the real thing.

Lab grown vs GMO

[no1nose]

People run from GMO products. Lab meat seems like it would be less popular than that.

Re:The grain alcohol didn't really raise food pric

[garyebickford]

You used to have to take possession of a commodity before you could sell/trade in it.

That wasn't true in 1976, when I was looking into commodities. At the time I could buy a railroad car of honey with delivery in six months for 20% down (I forget the exact margin), in hopes the price would go up. If it went up 5% then I would make 25% on my investment. If it went down, I could lose my shirt.

AFAIK it was never true. The whole point of commodities trading is for companies like General Foods to have a predictable price for their raw materials well in advance of needing them, and farmers to have a predictable price for their crop before it's grown. In between are the market makers and speculators. Overall the commodities market is remarkably good at stabilizing prices for both the materials and the products made from them. Another example - airlines also buy fuel for up to five years in advance.

You can also buy and sell options - I could buy an option to buy the honey, and if the price goes down then all I lost is the price I paid for the option (i.e. I lose 100% of my investment but not more than 100%). If it goes up, I might make eight or 10 times my investment. In 1978 Hillary Clinton, at the time 'First Lady' of Arkansas, famously made out on one of these deals. One of the Clinton buddies was the head of Tyson Foods, the company that pretty much runs Arkansas. One day, HC "on a whim" opened an options account at a commodities trading firm, and a day or two later bought ten options on chicken for $12,000 (even though there was only $1,000 in her account). The trade was closed a few days later for a $6300 profit - i.e. 630% profit in a couple of days. Over the next 10 months this investment, through ongoing trades, magically turned into over $100,000. The guy who ran her trades was an executive at Tyson Foods. Source: Washington Post - note other versions of this story are much less 'soft'.

no

[Stan92057]

no

Yes

[tvadakia]

Absolutely, yes, just as I would gladly participate in consuming approved GMO foods.

Sure, why not?

[JohnFen]

I'm willing to eat the crappy mass-produced meat on the market right now. I don't see any real difference between that and lab-grown meat.

preferred meat, if resource efficient

[peter303]

No being killed to obtain it. Hopefully less land, energy, carbon, etc.

Re: Why not?

[Copid]

Actually, a lot of the more popular effective ones a pretty benign to humans. Roundup has very low acute toxicity and "may" cause cancer with heavy, chronic exposure (kind of like coffee and sawdust). The Bt toxin that everybody freaks out about in GMO plants is extremely specific and has a "natural" origin--so much so that organic farmers use it on their crops. It only becomes Satan incarnate when non-organic farmers use it.

Re:Price of exotic meats will drop

[Copid]

I'm waiting for lab-grown genetically engineered turducken. Or real jackalope. As long as your crazy new hybrids are just blocks of meat, you don't really have to worry about them getting away and starting a breeding population of octoparrots so why not go hog wild?

Re:NO TO GMO!!

[HornWumpus]

I hope if there is a famine, all the remaining food is GMO.

Joke is on all of you

[ebvwfbw]

Remember that meat you ate in the school cafeteria? It was made in the back.

To clarify

[dbIII]

"I'm using is the standard one about occupant safety and not bending panels" should read:
I'm using is the standard one about occupant safety and not a different one about bending panels

Short answer: Yes

[maxcelcat]

I'm largely vegetarian, but when I do eat meat I like it to have the least impact on the planet as possible. Raising animals for food is incredibly intensive, and not good for the animals or the planet.

Re: Nope

[ShieldW0lf]

Does that actually elicit interest in people?

Why the heck not?

[neminem]

Is it cheaper? Is it safe to eat? Does it have roughly the same taste and consistency? Then why the heck wouldn't I? (I expect they'll get the first two pretty easily, but I'm not totally convinced on the last one. But that's what reviews are for. I have no moral or philosophical objection to the concept, merely practical ones.)

Re:Why not?

[houstonbofh]

There is a live chicken farm close to me

As opposed to a dead chicken farm?

As descriptive of the condition of the chicken when you buy it... So, yes, there are both.