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Apple CEO Tim Cook on EU Apple Tax Case: 'Total Political Crap' (arstechnica.com)
Earlier this week, Apple was ordered to pay a record sum of 13 billion euros plus interest after the EU said Ireland illegally slashed the iPhone make's tax bill. At the time, Tim Cook found the accusations "baseless." In a new interview, he had more things to say:A war of words has erupted between Europe's competition chief and Apple CEO Tim Cook after Ireland was ordered to reclaim $14.5 billion in back taxes from the company. Cook, in an interview with the Irish Independent, labelled Brussels' competition chief Margrethe Vestager's decision as "total political crap." He claimed Ireland was being "picked on" and that he hoped to see the Irish government launch an appeal against the ruling. Vestager refuted that claim when quizzed by reporters on Thursday. "This is a decision based on the facts of the case. The figures that we used in our decision are the figures that we got from Apple themselves," she said. "There are very, very few figures in the public domain. More transparency would be a good thing, for example, a country by country reporting. If it was up to me, the non-confidential version of the decision would have been published yesterday, because that is another way of enabling everyone to see what we have decided and on what basis we have made this decision. Right now the ball is in the hands of Apple and Ireland."
It's "political crap" because it's something you don't agree with. Law of the land, buddy.
who bends over for sex!
It's true!
I'm sure there's some other motivation in hitting one of the big fish for this tax haven nonsense... But until Apple provides concrete evidence that they followed every law (read: tax filings and supporting documentation), then anything from Mr. Cook is just an attempt to save face.
The one about how when the shoe is on the other foot it's so terrible, pure political crap my privelage got checked.
Wait, I thought that liberals like Cook were all for gouging those eeebil corporations and making them pay their fair share? If he was being consistent, he'd be happy to pay and then ask, "thank you sir, may I have another?"
"There are very, very few figures in the public domain"
What figures is it that she's referring to? Apple is publicly traded, are there numbers about revenue that are being hidden from her? Maybe, and that would be a whole other set of crimes to tack onto tax evasion.
"More transparency would be a good thing, for example, a country by country reporting"
Well let's start with Belgium....surely she has access to those numbers?
"If it was up to me, the non-confidential version of the decision would have been published yesterday, because that is another way of enabling everyone to see what we have decided and on what basis we have made this decision"
So if it's not up to her, who is it up to?
If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
For Irexit.
Looks like one precenter, Tim Cook, is progressive only when it doesn't come to paying fair share.
I don't understand. I just thought we did business in various countries around the world, and didn't pay taxes. People,people are supposed to pay all the taxes.
: P
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
Baseless?
Translation: Waaaahhhh!
That is all.
Embalming Fluid still the only known cure for greed.
According to BBC, Tim Cook is lying about how much tax Apple has paid:
"He claimed that Apple paid tax at a rate of 26% around the world, that isn't the whole story.
Apple works out its tax rate as if it had paid taxes due in the US at a rate of 35%.
But the actual payment of those taxes is deferred - till when, nobody knows.
Maybe until US taxes come down or some special tax amnesty is agreed to repatriate hundreds of billions that Apple and others keep off US shores in the tax equivalent of outer space.
In fact, the scramble to avoid paying tax at 35% is the reason the whole structure exists in the first place."
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-...
So you're saying the EC should sit by and let Ireland violate the terms of its membership in the Common Market? Is that your view, that Ireland is above the very laws it is party to?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
It is illegal in the EU to provide state aid to entice companies to setup in one country over another. It has been this way since EU year dot, to create a level playing field. It is pretty much the point of the EU. If you don't like it, don't join the EU.
If Apple funnel all their EU profits through Ireland without paying tax in the country of sale, but only pay tax on sales made in Ireland (because Ireland conveniently ignore the rest), then that is state aid. Ireland know this. If Apple didn't know this they should sack their lawyers.
All the rest is PR and bluster.
Show us the data held private and hidden by Apple Ireland themselves for everyone to see what the Europe's competition have decided and on what basis they have made that decision.
You say "Total Political Crap"? show the data or STFU.
It's a fact: the USA is dying.
It doesn't protect its own people, while the EU actively protects. Don't let it come as a suprise: protecting companies which invest in lowering any costs doesn't create a stable future.
Seriously. End it now. Before it's too late.
Sounds like both Cook and Apple. They're on overpriced commodity hardware, and playing international games to avoid paying local taxes.
From the US IRS website:
1972: 16.67% of the federal revenue stream from individual income taxes, 25% from corporate taxes
Now: 44+% from income taxes, and 10+% from corporate taxes.
We pay more, so he doesn't have to. Let's go back to the 1972 tax structure, and see how you like *that*, Cook - you'd be in the 72% tax bracket....
mark
it means berginer there
He claimed Ireland was being "picked on" and that he hoped to see the Irish government launch an appeal against the ruling.
I'm sure Ireland will stand up for their rights and not be forced to accept this kind of treatment. It's appalling. I sure would if someone would "pick on" me by ordering a foreign company to pay me 15 billion euros. I mean really, who would put up with that kind of treatment? What's wrong with Europeans, this isn't the dark ages, you can't treat people like that.
So you're saying that Apple should be allowed to dodge a $10+ billion tax evasion charge? Is that your view, that Apple is above the very laws it is party to?
Of course you are. You're a Macfag, you're probably hoping to visit Jobs' grave someday so you can suck the cancer and rot out of his balls. We all know what the real problem with Tim Cook is, he needs those billions to spend on poppers at the sex shops around Cupertino.
... but we're going to punish Apple.
Hey, it's just like anti-gun rhetoric. Bad guy does something bad with a gun, let's punish everyone except the bad guy.
There are two possible translations, based on the context.
1. Are the allegations based on a) verifiable facts or on b) unconfirmed or debunked rumors?
If answer=a, then translation="I'm so mad we got caught!"
If answer=b, then translation="This is a political attack."
Usually taxes are political.
So after Saying we pay Taxes the Law Requires, You are unhappy you Loop Hole fell through?
Sorry Mr Business man. It is not the first time a tax shelter fell though.
I am sure you will cry louder if all that off shore money you have be holding from the Tax man does not get a Tax holiday to repatriate.
Worse if they "make" you bring it back in a single year.
Taxes are all political crap.
This is the EU saying to Ireland "Your law violates European law - fix it". This is correct. What is sketchy is the retrospective nature of the "and grab a few billion from Apple while you're fixing it"
I disagree that it is sketchy at all. Apple is going through all kinds of contortions to avoid paying any taxes. This is in clear violation of the spirit of the law and apparently the EU believes it is in violation of the letter of the law as well. Apple enjoys the benefits of public services from the taxes paid but isn't willing to pay their fair share. I have ZERO sympathy for Apple here. They shouldn't be entitled to any tax breaks not available to individuals or small enterprises. Furthermore if what they did was illegal then there is no retrospective anything. It means that Apple rightfully owes money it hasn't paid.
Pay your taxes, faggot.
the EU actively protects
There's a rumor going around that Germany is a member of the EU. You haven't read a newspaper lately, I take it?
Being that newspapers are typically written at a fifth grade level, and thus too hard for you, I shouldn't be surprised.
Guilty until proven innocent.
Is there any question that Apple has been avoiding taxes? Apple admits that fact freely and seems rather proud of it in fact. The only question is whether their activities were actually legal or not but their guilt in avoiding taxes is not in question. Now the EU seems to have determined that they were illegal under the law as well. Apple got special treatment they weren't entitled to and they owe a lot of money they should have paid earlier. Sounds fair to me.
Yes. They should just continue allowing our better equals to pay %1 tax or less while the rest pay 15x the tax.
I thought we didn't have feudalism anymore.
I'll take "Things Steve Jobs Wouldn't Say That Way in Public" for $200, Alex.
BTW, Mr. Cook... "Total political crap" is what you do when you publicly pull a stunt of rejecting North Carolina for voting to continue the existing status quo on what Men's and Women's restrooms are considered, while ignoring human rights violations in China and the sweatshop Foxconn operates on your behalf.
Posting as AC because SJW's are nasty.
Tim, you were paying 500ths of 1 percent, you knew EU/EEC rules didn't allow EU/EEC countries to make those kind of deals. If you didn't know that then you should fire your lawyers as they did not do due diligence. So quit crying and pay your fair share.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Tim Cook was born in Alabama. Apple was formed in California. I fail to see the Irish connection unless it some way to avoid taxes. Oh wait.
Headquartered in Ireland (to avoid tax laws)
Since more and more countries are closing those loopholes, I hear rumors they're building a giant ship to move their entire operation to the lawless libertarian paradise of international waters; manufacturing slaves on the lower decks, one percenters soaking up the sun on the upper decks.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
a multi-national corporation has been cheating the system for decades, they should pay taxes on all income earned in the nation they do business with, by claiming their base of operations is in such&such a nation just because it is a tax haven should be illegal, change the law so they have to pay taxes on ALL income earned in the nation they made that income in and then they can not cheat the system by playing this game of multi-national tax haven base of operations, and then governments wont lean so heavily on working class's income tax so much
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
From what I've read, this is a net wash for Apple, because they get to reduce their US taxes by the amount they pay in foreign taxes. ... but foreign taxes would be paid out of foreign money ... whereas the US tax refund would be in US money.
Therefore, Apple would get $14B or so re-patriated, without having to pay US taxes for doing so.
Currently, Apple has a huge cash reserve, but it's not in US money ... so they take loans against it, rather than repatriate it (and pay 35% on it, minus the taxes that have already been paid on it)
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
If a man with five dollars gives a dollar to a starving man, he's being generous.
If a man with a billion dollars gives a dollar to a starving man, he's being a dick.
Point being, Apple's taxes should be proportional to what they make, rather than measured in "more than your company made" dollars.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
so it sound about even.
Apple paid about $7,000,000,000 in taxes to the US govt last year.
That isn't the real number. In 2011 the tax on their GAAP statements was $6.9B but the amount the actually sent to the IRS was less than half of that. Taxes are done on a cash basis, not accrual basis so you have to look deeper than their financial statements. Apple pays in some cases single digit percentages of their profits.
Is that a fair enough share for you?
Considering that the amount they paid as a percentage is FAR less than what many other companies pay and less than the percent I pay the answer is a clear NO. Furthermore they pay a lot of tax because they are absurdly profitable. Complaining about having such good fortune is absurd.
Do you try to minimize your tax burden?
Don't pretend that Apple's situation and my personal tax situation are remotely comparable. I pay a FAR higher tax rate than Apple does. Furthermore Apple gets to play all sorts of games playing jurisdictions off against each other which isn't something you or I get to do. It's not fair, it's not right, and it's not ethical. Evidently the EU agrees that it isn't legal either. Perhaps Apple shouldn't be entitled to hire people from public schools and universities or get protection from police or fire. After all they seem to think that we should have to pay for those things on their behalf so they can make even more billions than they already are. When is enough money enough?
Do you take any deductions? Are others not allowed to because they made more money?
Spare me. When Apple pays as much of their profits in taxes as I do on my income then you might have an argument. As it stands it's not even a discussion.
I hope you read more several, very different paper, so your "opinion" is formed instead of injected. Since you openly admitted you only read the Sun (or alike "paper"), I doubt I want to have a discussion with you.
If you mean the constitutional republic, you're well behind the curve. Long dead. Arguable that it was stillborn.
However, if you mean the nation, then, no. The oligarchy is running just fine. And your implication that it is in place to benefit the people in general, and that defines its life or death is adorable, truly.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Karma bitches. Cry harder.
Are you one of those that think that Spirit of the Law only applies when you agree with the law, and doesn't apply when you don't.
I don't have a problem with anyone engaging in conscientious objection to what they think is an unfair law. However there are usually consequences for doing that. If Apple thinks the laws are unfair then they should be actively working to get them changed to something that is fair. As it stands they are just trying to weasel out of paying a reasonable portion of their Scrooge McDuck horde of cash. There is no ethical stance being taken here, just pure greed and opportunity.
How do you feel about Hillary skirting the applicable laws regarding Security of Secrets?
I think she should be subject to the same laws as everyone else. Similarly Apple appears to think because they are able to find some clever loopholes because of their power and size that the laws shouldn't apply to them. I disagree.
How about Immigration law?
What about it? If someone comes here illegally and gets caught they should expect to get deported. I don't have a problem with that. They rolled the dice when they came here. However since at some point almost all the people who are here in the US had many relatives who came here without the permission of any government or were brought here against their will I'm not bent out of shape about some people coming here for economic opportunity. Do you speak fluent Cherokee? Didn't think so. How do you like those cheap groceries? Are you insisting on paying for only legal labor (read white people) or are you a hypocrite? You should worry about illegal immigration if the people STOP wanting to come to your country. I think the immigration laws in my country are idiotic and hugely racist but they are what they are until sanity hopefully prevails one day.
Not true unless Netcraft confirms it!
I read plenty of newspapers. You only seem to read the one supporting your views.
This is what the current election is about. Trump will crack down on corporations behaving badly (hiring illegals, visa abuse, moving factories abroad, etc.). The American people have had it, but we need a leader who will actually do something about it.
I'd give almost anything to stop these globalists. Higher taxes, hike to the minimum wage, gay marriage, who cares? When we implement protectionist controls, their foreign factories will be useless.
You are mistaken if you think Vestager will fold to pressure. She has a high level of moral righteousness and is not corrupt.
She believes in the basis of the free movement of goods and services. Think of this like the us constitution. There is very little room for interpretation. She belives that the EU is the only thing preventing europe from reverting to war.
If you cheat on your taxes, then yeah you'd be subject to fines for past tax evasion. But if you followed the letter of the tax law at the time, and some time later the government decided the law was wrong and changed it, then no you wouldn't be subject to retroactive fines.
As a EU citizen, I will no longer deal with Apple and look for socially responsible companies instead.
They should tack on an execution sentence of all Apple execs while they're at it, to discourage others from trying to set up corrupt deals.
NY Times, The Telegraph, etc. are written at the fifth grade level.
I would accuse you of projecting, but three syllable words are too tough for you.
Tim Cook full of shit, greedy bastard wants legal protections but doesn't want to pay the taxes that are part of being a member of society...
Timmy got Bitch-Slapped!
If Timmy doesn't stop being a total queer ass-hole he'll get his balls crushed by the foot of Justice.
Ha ha
Sure is.
leftist leftst/
noun
1.
a person who supports the political views or policies of the left especially in situations where virtue signalling is most effective. (i.e. "Force that couple to bake me a cake-- violating their religion-- because I've decided that whatever I'm doing is right and they're bigots/homophobes/racists")
2. a person who wants to apply the maximum overbearing weight of government to others but not themselves (i.e. tax others and give me free stuff)
3. a hypocrite.
adjective
1.
supportive of the political views or policies of the left.
"leftist radicals", "self-righteous hippies", "virtue signalling hipsters", "Apple employees and customers"
So you want more government power, eh? You reap what you sow, Cook.
Ireland is obviously being punished in this case: if it were the great deal for them that you're making it out to be, they wouldn't be fighting it so hard. They know that the sweetheart deal they made Apple is better for them than any back taxes Apple might owe; that's why they did it.
Apple should be also punished, they just haven't been yet. Apple is a huge company that has the clout to push small countries around. In 1997, they threatened to close their business nexus in Ireland unless Ireland gave them tax-free access to the EU. There is no way that Apple's lawyers didn't know that this violated the spirit and probably the letter of the European anti-competition rules. And it's not like the EU didn't warn Apple: they openly criticized the deal for the first time in 2003 and repeatedly after that. They gave Apple and Ireland a full DECADE to sort this out before they opened the investigation in 2013. The Commission was being nice on this: the rule is that they can claw back state aid for ten years, so they gave Apple and Ireland that entire period to sort themselves before they were literally forced into opening an investigation.
And you know how we know that Apple and Ireland both knew their deal was illegal? Because when the Commission opened the investigation they realized the Commission was serious and they ended the arrangement IMMEDIATELY. That's right, 2014 was the last year during which this scam was taking place. Apple and Ireland both knew their arrangement would not stand up to legal scrutiny.
Now, Apple is just trying to grand stand a bit to get the amount they have to pay reduced. The US is pissed because they were about to grant Apple a reduced rate tax holiday, but since that money's being paid to Ireland the US Tax code won't let them double dip.
So who's desperate for cash now?
Stop trying to screw America over by moving your HQ to a tax haven like this. Just think what the country that most of your products goes to could do with that money. Hmmm, we could build a whole factory and be able to pay people human wages instead of minimum. Just think how much better the country would view your company instead of seeing them as the money hungry vultures they show themselves to be. I hope all companies that used this tactic end up having to pay. America needs the money, why does Ireland get to collect the taxes that they were avoiding paying to the US.
This is not a sudden political decision. The investigation has been going on for three years. The Commission repeatedly warned both Apple and Ireland that their arrangement was illegal. I'm not a lawyer, I just took a couple of EU Law classes back in business school and even I could tell the arrangement was blatantly illegal. Apple obviously took a page out of Uber's playbook and it trying to escape the law and obfuscate the issues.
Where you see an "anti-us-technology" narrative in Europe, I see an "all-laws-should-work-like-our-laws-because-USA-USA-USA!" narrative on your continent, and in your post. When in Rome, do as the Romans. Or they'll feed you to the lions. It's our law, it's democratic, so go back to the US if you don't want to follow it.
Old whathisname was running it... What was his name? Steve something...
Anyway, they were such a cool company then. They came out with life-changing products, they elevated design aesthetics for the industry as a whole, and they didn't get into all of the political crap that old Tim Cook's version of the company does.
Between spending company cash and time trying to promote his political beliefs, putting out lackluster products that stagnate in the market, and now getting caught flipping the bird to Europe over getting caught avoiding tax laws, Apple's not looking too good these days.
A couple more years like this and Apple might even take the bold step of letting 3rd party manufacturers build their products, and then slapping an Apple logo on it (Remember those awesome Mac knockoff's before Jobs stepped back in?)
Tim should step down... He doesn't have the skills nor the demeanor to run this company.
Whoops! Forgot his latest brilliant idea: Remove the headphone jack and make consumers replace all of their perfectly good working equipment again.
Wasn't Apple into recycling heavily also? Wonder how much plastic and metal will end up in the landfills due to this latest genius move...
A Tax Expert Takes Tim Cook's EU Letter Apart Point By Point
Belief is the currency of delusion.
Yep, it's all about state aid. Now none of my easily-outraged lefty FBriends knew this was a breach of state aid and it's possible neither Ireland nor Apple knew this might be. But they should have known.
That it's been going on for over a decade is neither here nor there. Apple and Ireland might have hoped they'd never get called on it, but that doesn't make it more ethical or legal.
Same EU law was at the centre of the British steel row four months ago.
Lastly, what does this say about Tim Cook? I strongly suspected their refusal to hack was one of the few times market forces lined up with privacy rights. It's possible he's a pro-privacy libertarian, or simply doing his job & hoping Apple fanbois will get Apple off the hook.
They didn't cheat on taxes, you unbelievable nitwit. Ireland is a sovereign country and they decided what Apple paid. As Ireland itself has said, if Apple owes tax, it is not owed to Ireland.
A better analogy would be the US retroactively eliminating deductions (standard or itemized) retroactively and asking you for back taxes and interest. Even more accurately, it's like the US ruling your state's deduction was illegal and claiming you owed your state back taxes and interest, even though your state agrees with you. But I guess that seems totally fair and happens all the time, right?
Nincompoop.
They made this deal with Ireland to book the revenue there at a preferential rate. However, part of why the EU determined that they had to pay up is because they didn't really have the office they claimed to have in Ireland. It was a corporation-on-paper-that-didn't-really-exist. I don't really have much patience with that.
You shouldn't be able to have your cake and eat it, too. Some people seriously believe that there should be no corporate tax at all, but if you want corporations to have the rights of persons, then they must also have the responsibilities of persons (e.g. paying taxes).
Apple's CEO is stuck in a regrettable place, though. His responsibility is to lead the company to be as valuable to the shareholders as is legally possible, which in part means minimizing liabilities, including taxes. I have little doubt that they thought this structure was legal.
What if countries modified their patent and copyright laws so that if a holder moves their tax base out of a country, they forfeit their holder rights in that country?
Apple should strike a tax deal with the UK, and move their 6,000 jobs over there.
Every penny that Apple is forced to pay the EU is a penny less that would have eventually gone to Uncle Sam. How you like that now, fulminating Americans?
Next tax season I should try this - call a press conference and refuse to pay taxes, claiming that this is just political crap...
All the noise and hysterics don't change the facts - they've dodged $14B in taxes through a shady - and illegal - deal with Irish authorities.
If you pay 0.05% in tax while everybody else pays 12% (and BTW it is more like 30% throughout Europe), you should know you are breaking the law. Apart from paying back what they owe, I'd like to see somebody end up in jail. Otherwise, this will keep happening forever.
Brussels doesn't seem to be getting the message. We are all sick and tired of their politics. After Brexit, one might have hoped they would back off... but bureaucrats are not generally known for reducing their interference in other people's business.
Might makes right irrelevant.
- the law is theft and the entire system is built around that theft.
Oh fuck off with that stupid argument. Tax is not theft and never was. The argument doesn't stand up to the most cursory scrutiny. The very fact that you have roads and an education and healthcare and police protection and the internet and first responders and clean water and postal service and safe drugs and military protection and plenty more is because of taxes. Without a civil society and people paying taxes to fund things we all benefit from none of that stuff exists. The fact that you can post your witless argument is because of those taxes you are so bent out of shape over.
AFAIC Apple shouldn't pay a cent and instead hire a private army to go after every single politician involved in this racketeering and I mean to go with full force of every shady tool available to people when that sort of money is involved, up to and including blackmail, kidnapping, extermination and regime change.
Either you are a troll or a raving lunatic with no concept of reality. I hope it's the former but I'm pretty sure it's the later.
Well, John Galt sells power he generates, you don't like the price don't buy it from him. I am sure others would be happy to sell you the power they generate at lower prices.
Ahh, I get it now. You're one of those credulous idiots who read "The Fountainhead" and thinks that it has some actual relevance to reality. Here's a clue, Ayn Rand had NO idea how real economics and politics and civil society functioned. She was a functioning hypocrite and her books are fodder for clueless ideologues who either don't know how the real world works or con men who have found they can convince credulous fools that there is sense in her writings so that they may gain power over them.
People who actually follow the "teachings" of Ayn Rand are as idiotic as those who follow the "teachings" of Joseph Smith or L. Ron Hubbard or any number of other con men. The are credulous sheep who lack the ability to reason independently or logically.
How dare these government types not listen to their overlords, their unelected Kings? Whom do these peasants think they are?
It's "total political crap" when it means that you probably won't get your ridiculously obscene bonus this year.
Boo hoo.
Maybe now their way over valued stock will come back in line with reality? Talk about a bubble! It's a really big bubble.