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Right To Be Forgotten? Web Privacy Debate in Italy After Women's Suicide (ndtv.com)
The suicide of a woman who battled for months to have a video of her having sex removed from the internet is fuelling debate in Italy on the "right to be forgotten" online. The 31-year-old, identified as Tiziana, was found hanged at her aunt's home in Mugnano, close to Naples in the country's south on Tuesday, reports Agence France-Presse. From the report: Her death came a year after she sent a video of herself having sex to some friends, including her ex-boyfriend, to make him jealous. The video and her name soon found their way to the web and went viral, fuelling mockery of the woman online. The footage has been viewed by almost a million internet users. In a bid to escape the humiliation, Tiziana quit her job, moved to Tuscany and tried to change her name, but her nightmare went on. The words "You're filming? Bravo," spoken by the woman to her lover in the video, have become a derisive joke online, and the phrase has been printed on T-shirts, smartphone cases and other items. After a long court battle, Tiziana recently won a "right to be forgotten" ruling ordering the video to be removed from various sites and search engines, including Facebook.
but actions shouldn't be remembered
"after she sent a video of herself having sex to some friends, including her ex-boyfriend, to make him jealous."
Stupidity kills.
Too bad most societies have such hang ups about sex. It's our only biological reason for existence and yet, there are all these taboos about it.
Partly, it's ancient patriarchal values that may have a link to biology (hide the women so some other guy doesn't fuck her and displace my genes.). And of course, we have Christianity that is an anti-sex death cult that has warped Western society from our enlightened advanced Greco-Roman roots (Goddamn you to Hell Constantine I!)
If she was ugly no one would be discussing this.
You're asking for something that is impossible, to be a "Right"
The "online" part is irrelevant (and just as impossible). I can no more "forget" on demand short of you lobotomizing me, and you don't have that right.
So, lets stop tossing words like "rights" around, when they cannot apply.
BTW, she handled it very poorly. She could have milked it (trademarked the phrase) and become a famous porn star, with a catch phrase and all. Embrace that which makes you famous (like the Kardashians) and you'll be both Rich and Famous.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
What did she expect? I mean really. I say good riddance. The world needs fewer women like this.
It's all the rage these days.
She was being oppressed by her ex-boyfriends privilege.
People need to be accountable for their actions, heck even teenagers know that what they post might prevent them from getting a good job one day. This is the age we live in and we have to control our 'media' that we create. Everything is remembered somewhere and the internet makes it findable.
I've never heard of this video or "You're filming bravo".
And I'm a channer. Maybe this was a popular vid in italy.
I like to call it "stripper logic"
How about don't use your real name online? Just because everyone in the world seems to have abandoned that concept in the last 15 years doesn't make it any less important, or relevant.
This is not a problem for the internet, its a problem of novice internet users emailing sex tapes around. I would have some sympathy if she was hacked, but she clearly brought this on herself. We all make mistakes, but we don't all make fools of our self online using our real information. That's a fairly specific choice she made. It may not have been thought through, but let that be a lesson to everyone who decides emailing a sex tape around is a good idea.
As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
Connect to an emule server, search for Tiziana Cantone and you will see a multitude of results. There are 5-6 short explicit videos, including fellatio, multiple partners and even some "alone time", plus a few not explicit pics.
I was curious myself, because I know there are thousands of women out there that are named on their leaked videos and I don't think people actively go after them with memes etc, so I wanted to know what was different here. I don't really see anything out of the "ordinary" (sure most such videos don't have multiple partners, but the "minority" that does still is a really big number, so we'd say it is a common occurence). So I guess it is the place, perhaps Napoli is a bit of a "closed" society and that's why she drew focus and ridicule? Judging from their films and their politicians (don't think just of Berlusconi's parties - they even had a famous porn star, Cicciolina, elected in parliament), I'd think Italians would be more casual about sex...
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
I'm out. 25 seconds.
It's a good thing that people can do what they want, online. Comment as they wish, share links to things they want, and that this is not centrally censored so that a single party can remove "inconvenient" content. Especially as pertains to politicians and various kinds of abuses.
It's also (would be) a good thing if the internet would forget, which it currently doesn't. Who out there has never, in their whole life, done something stupid? Something they'd be embarrassed by later, that could cost them jobs, cost them friendships? You can't even totally control whether this kind of stupidity ends up online, because others can upload it even if you don't.
These two things are in direct conflict. There is always going to be tension between them. You can try to get around it by trying to keep yourself offline, but people do like to share stuff online, and again other people can upload video etc containing you, even if you don't.
I don't know where that road goes, but it's a place humanity has never been before. We've never had a society where anything you say, do, or write when you are 20 has the potential to be searchable under your name when you are 60. In the past, you'd do something stupid, it would pass, and be forgotten, not to mention not known world-wide at anyone's fingertips at any time. It seems dangerous. It seems like it will brew witch-hunts and shallow judgments and fuel for petty vendettas. But the alternative is not clearly any better, because it requires Orwellian levels of control over information.
What has been seen cannot be unseen. What has been posted, once downloaded by anyone at all, cannot be unposted.
I've taken things down at the request of the party filmed, even though it has always been innocent. (You are NOT going to be passed over for promotion because of a video of you breakdancing while drunk.) In these cases, it was not too late. Hardly anyone "scrapes" YouTube, they just watch and move on. But if your video has already become a meme? You're screwed (no pun intended). All the shouting in the world isn't going to make it go away.
The lady here made several mistakes, all from the same root cause: delusion. She was delusional when she thought it was a good idea in the first place. She was delusional when she thought thousands of people were going to comply with a directive to "forget" and destroy the file, when it had already reached memetic levels. She was delusional when she thought that moving to another city would significantly decrease the chances of someone who had seen the video recognizing her. And she was delusional to think that the people who made her into a meme will give a flying fuck she became an hero. Many of them are edgy enough to even claim it as some sort of victory.
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
Not an Italian lawyer, but why not try to get the phrase trademarked and then demand royalties from those using your uttered phrase?
The four comments on this story all blame the woman for her own stupidity?
Are you guys for real? Yes I assume you are guys.
Just because someone makes a stupid mistake we don't have the right to keep on blasting her for it! And she asked please would you stop and leave me alone. And the idiots still kept on pestering her. Making t-shirts? I cannot belive it! Sure - it's not illegal to do that but the people doing it place themselves square into the neanderthal part of the intelligence and compassion scales! I bet you guys know how to google - so don't just take my word for it - but an environment in which you are continously beeing harrassed can cause all kinds of damage in a persons soul. Some people in Italy and on the net really should think hard and long about their own behaviour! Are you all 13 years old? I don't think so!
And then to come here and you all continue the blame fest on her for beeing harassed and mobbed enough to take her own life? HELLO! She took her own life. That is no joke!
I had to thaw up my old account for this because I'm shocked and ashamed of what Slashdot has became.
Blame Someone Else for your own stupidity.
Agreed.
She must be an American at heart.
There are stupid people all around the world, my friend. Pointing the finger at a country and calling its people stupid is like pointing at the Sun and calling it helium.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
"after she sent a video of herself having sex to some friends, including her ex-boyfriend, to make him jealous."
Stupidity kills.
I know, this is Slashdot - all your girlfriends are blocked by porn filters. But when you have your heart broken by someone you really love, rationality goes out the window.
My divorce lawyer tennis partner makes a very nice living off of that emotion.
Once it's on the internet, all bets are off. No having it completely removed.
The right not to make a sex tape, put it on the internet, and the complain when people on the internet see it.
Most countries that I know of give copyrights to a work the moment you create said work. You don't have to register or apply for rights. So in this case the "actors" were also the producers of a copyrightable work. I would just use the copyright law to issue takedown notices etc from all these sites.
This would be the worst possible time to say, "pics or it didn't happen." So no one say it.
America takes a lot of derision from other countries because we tend to focus on individual freedom/responsibility.
... that was ultimately her decision alone. If someone "forces" you to commit suicide, it's not really a suicide.
At least compared to other places.
The suicide part
Avoid the story. It's running an ad-blocker blocker.
Fuck that shit. All you content owners: If you don't want me running an ad-blocker, go fuck yourself. If I really want your content, I'll just wget your whole fucking site.
for you own stupidity. She must be an American at heart.
HAHA, Calling someone stupid while talking like a retard does you well!
It does exist
This sounds like a case of one mistake leading to another in the classic tale of digging yourself deeper.
Sad, really. She was not mentally tough enough to make the hard choice at any of the decision points along that path.
At the very least her story can be used as a learning experience for young impressionable girls of what decisions not to make in their own lives.
Modern society's attitudes to young women and sex are basically a fucked up mish mash of caveman reproductive instincts and simplistic religious bigotry. By making sex rarer, subject to various social conventions and expectations, you cultivate perverse fascinations, and inhibit maturity.
John_Chalisque
>> she sent a video of herself having sex to some friends, including her ex-boyfriend, to make him jealous.
Typical modern day bitch princess.
Quite happy to mess someone else's life up but thinks everyone should rush to her aid when her own shit comes back on her.
Good riddance.
So she decides to send this video to people she doesn't like for the sole purpose of making them feel bad and then...it ends up in bad places on the internet? I don't feel bad for her public shaming. This is not a case of someone doing something for a lover (assuming it will be kept private) and then that lover turning sour later and reposting it.
In the 90s, I lived in San Francisco. There was (and still is) a well known race called Bay to Breakers. While there are serious runners, the race is best known for thousands of people in costumes and various states of undress, including naked or body paint.
A drop dead gorgeous friend wanted to run in body paint but was afraid to run alone and asked me if I would join (in body paint, of course). Being gallant, I said sure (ok, perhaps part of me wanted to see her naked in body paint).
If you did this today, you'd immediately be posted all over Facebook, so many people decide not to engage in harmless fun anymore.
I really feel sad for the younger generation
Glad she is dead. Bitch wanted to hurt some guy with her actions. Those actions ended up making her look bad. Then she decides that the world must be legally forced to "Forget" that she is a classless whore.
Again. Fuck her.
Ahh, she's classless? And what are you with this kind of speech?
She did do a stupid thing, but you clearly don't understand the value of a human life. You are glad she is dead because she wanted to hurt some poor guy's fee fees? It must be so hard feeling bad, boo hoo. I'm sure he wasn't losing sleep over the videos.
They might as well create a right for the murdered to be "Restored to life" while we're legislation impossible acts.
Realistically - information isn't going to be removed from the internet. It's like playing the world's worst game of whack-a-mole.
I do have sympathy for most victims of leaked nudes photos or video - this one is a tad hard to feel bad for because she intentionally sent it to an ex she was on bad terms with. Generally though - that's a bit of an exception to the rule.
That said, despite it being wrong. Despite the fact that it SHOULDN'T happen - if you film yourself nude or in a sexual act, there is a very real possibility that that file could end up on the internet. Could be that you shared it with someone and they reshare it, or it could be an unauthorized hack, however the simple reality is that though that information ethically should remain private, realistically it might not.
To me, if you can't accept a small risk that whatever you film just MIGHT be seen by the world, then I wouldn't recommend filming it in the first place. It's akin to an old gambling rule: No matter the odds, never place a bet you can't afford to lose.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
I totally agree with you on the ACTUAL equality point. I'm disgusted by how many people have allowed themselves to be brainwashed by the media to use the word "equality" when they really mean "privileged".
The internet is a very cruel place. We see the worst aspects of the human race on a daily basis. I don't know how we fix that.
-Bob-
Easy. She sent a sex video to her ex with the express intent to hurt him.
This proves she has zero class.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
Every humans life starts with a specific amount of value.
That humans actions raise or lower that value over time.
She was a person who not only wanted to hurt other people, but did so in a stupid way. Then when her actions unsurprisingly backfired she lacked any ability to deal with it in an adult manner and just made shit worse. She was a bad person, that dug a hole and then attempted to fix it by digging deeper and was of the opinion that the only solution was death.
She looked decent, that though, sadly was the limit of that lives worth.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
She did do a stupid thing, but you clearly don't understand the value of a human life.
They aren't worth shit, we absolutely suck as a species and we don't and most likely will never amount to much of anything in the life of the universe.
http://chemistry.about.com/b/2011/02/06/how-much-are-the-elements-in-your-body-worth.htm
Is similar to the "right to remain silent" ... you have the "right" the REAL question is ... do you have the ability?
Some of these actions are already enough to get people jail time if they do them because of real life interactions, why is this different? Stupid she might have been even wrong, but that does not give people, strangers, the right to destroy her life for fun. Some adaptation of the harassment law to make it more clear and to the point on such issues might be needed, we haven't fixed up such laws to make it easer to deal with internet distributed mobs yet. On the other hand just either better judges or prosecution or police might be able to solve this on their own, if at a perhaps overly high cost, but getting those might be a bit hard.
That was really unfortunate.
This is hardly a new problem — we've had it for thousands of years.
Your secret becomes less and less secret the more you share it with others. There is no "right to be forgotten" — and there never was. The prospect of it ever becoming mandatory to submit oneself to a memory-erasing procedure — such as to satisfy a court's order in a divorce case — scares me more than anybody watching me having sex...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
When Brendan Eich was "outed" as an opponent of "gay marriage", the online bullies forced his resignation from Mozilla's top job.
When blamed for the resulting degradation of Mozilla software's quality, the bullies insist, it was their First Amendment right to criticize and boycott Mr. Eich — and that he should have known, that "words have consequences" and censored himself.
Resigning is no different from suicide in this case — a person is driven to an unpleasant and unwanted action by the words of those, who hate/despise him...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Thank you for being the one to say something; you're a good person. The other comments here are unbelievable. It's sickening that we live in an age where an entire country of people can quickly turn on a person for something they did in their private life and ridicule them until they feel that death is the only escape. And perhaps the worst part is that so many people don't seem to recognize the bigger picture of it happening.
You do not have the privilege or right to have the internet clean up your mistake that you yourself made. If you don't want something recorded on video, don't record it on video. If you do, don't send it to anyone. That's beyond common sense.
https://www.google.ca/search?h...
http://www.lesotutte.com/link-...
Just to elaborate a bit, all speech is constitutionally protected in the US; anything other than that is simply the result of oath-breaking on the part of congress, and/or state legislatures, and justices, and wholly constitutes invalid law. Not that invalid law is any less unpleasant when the government uses it to commit violence upon your person. Which it does with grinding regularity.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Well, it's truly a shame that the world has become a place where you cannot escape your mistakes, large or small, if someone, anyone, is the least bit interested in seeing to it that you can't. No matter how hard you try, no matter how sincere you are, no matter what lengths you go to to adjust your behavior or act in ways to mitigate or reverse any damage you might have done, or have been perceived to have done.
It's part and parcel of the retribution over rehabilitation mindset, I think. Despicable, really.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Was it one woman or several?
Wait, what? Public sexual and violent offender's lists, retroactive, both federal and state, ring a bell? People put up on billboards by court order? Forced to put bumper stickers on their cars? Forced to wear sign placards on street corners? Any of those pass your "inappropriate" smell test? They're all in use by the judicial system right now.
These things are not only considered "appropriate" by the modern judicial system, their use is formalized, habitual, and growing ever more intense.
You really need to get out more.
The analog hole is exactly the problem here. You've put your finger right in it. Er, on it.
This is a derrogatory term for a group which is highly marginalized.
For every "neck-beard" and "basement dweller", you'll find a complicated history of abuse, loneliness and mental illness.
I think you'll find a much wider group on Slashdot than your little brain can imagine, and among that group who've ridiculed this woman horribly, you'll find a rare "neck beard" or "basement dweller" who's forgotten how taunted, abused and marginalized they themselves are.
But hey, they're mostly white guys, so piss on them.
Information doesn't want to be free. You, and people like you, want it to be free. How many people get hurt in the process isn't important enough to you to alter your desire, or, it may be that you simply are unable to comprehend the damage such a desire often does.
This may well be one of the reasons you describe yourself as a "socially awkward geek." I wouldn't be proud of it, frankly. And, as I see you're posting AC, perhaps you are not.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Do you see any of that as exceptions to protected speech in the constitution? No, you don't. No exceptions exist; speech is constitutionally given 100% blanket protection:
There. See? Not "except for this speech or that speech", but "speech." Not "this press or that press, but "press." Not "some law", but "no law."
The things you bring up are exactly what I meant when I said "invalid law." Law made in the face of an explicit prohibition to do so; law made in the face of oaths given to honor the constitution. Those laws are unequivocally are the result of oath-breaking, they are unconstitutional, and they are consequently invalid law in precisely the way I described it.
Try to keep up. You can object, but you really should read for content so you can object to what was actually said.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
The real problem is that people feel shame for having sex. Therefore it will be illegal to feel shame for sex. But it is the people who make them feel shame that is the problem? Alright then it will be illegal to make someone feel shame, even though it is now illegal to feel shame. What the people watching the shame are guilty as well. Ok. It will also be illegal to engage in the shaming, even if you are not shaming the person yourself.
Now the ex-boyfriend has to live in guilt for the rest of his life
So this women deliberately had sex with multiple men at the same time. Ok, I understand that. I've had my share of threesomes & orgys/âoegangbangs" and the ladies always loved it.
She had herself filmed while doing so. For free. Ok, I get that too. Some people dig this, and if she and her lovers looked good doing sex she'd being doing other people a favour with nice free amateur pron. Good thing.
Here it gets weird: She had herself filmed to make someone - aparently her ex-lover - jealous. Thats imature, silly and dumb, but whatever.
She sent her ex-lover and some other peole the video. Ok. Fits her plan and intent.
Then she gets hysterical as the video ends up on the internet. Calls for legal measures to have the video removed, gets depressed and finally kills herself. ... I mean WTF??!?
Isn't it blatantly obvious to *anybody* that step 2 already basically guarantees that your sextape will end up on the internet with anywhere between a few hundred up to a few million seeing it? What is wrong with people? ... This whole szenario is so patently absurd I almost have difficulty believing it.
I seriously don't get it.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Its a sad story of a person with mental health issues. A lot of people have been recorded having sex, and a lot of it has made its way onto the internet. And they do not kill themselves. Her issues were probably there before she decided to try to make her ex jealous. At some point, she thought that was a good action, then she decided it was so humiliating that her only recourse is killing herself? That doesn't ring like a person so humiliated by the internet, but a person with deep issues.
Sad that she didn't try some counseling before such a drastic action, or someone close to her didn't try to intervene.
tl;dr version - not a right to be forgotten issue, but a depression, possibly bipolar problem, coupled with people who would like to censor the internet - shamelessly trying to take advantage of her demise for their own purposes.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Every humans life starts with a specific amount of value.
I'm worth about tree fitty
She was a person who not only wanted to hurt other people, but did so in a stupid way. Then when her actions unsurprisingly backfired she lacked any ability to deal with it in an adult manner and just made shit worse.
Yes, but it needs some study because of the strange aspects of it. Distributing a video of yourself engaging in sexual activity to some people, and in an attempt to make an ex-boyfriend jealous, is a little odd. Then when it gets seen by more people, you find that the solution is killing yourself?
It's impossible to make a diagnosis from afar, but this sounds more like bipolar depression than stupidiy. Bad decisions without regard for the consequences, then deciding that the results merit suicide, just speaks to something else than embarrassment. I do suspect the poor woman had treatable mental problems.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Didn't anybody saw that the link provided in the story locks up if you have ABP installed? Way to moderate news /. I need find a better tech news site for real.
Irregardless of her other mental conditions, when she sent that video specifically to hurt another person ...
Fuck her.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
"A teenage university student, 19-year-old Alyssa Funke shot herself weeks after being bullied for starring in an amateur porn film. She was reportedly taunted mercilessly online after taking part in a sex film with a stranger for website Casting Couch-X. After weeks of gossip and trolling, the aspiring anaesthesiologist drove out to her family’s boat in Stillwater, Minnesota, and killed herself."
Posting yourself naked or having sex online is ALWAYS assured to live forever and in any part of the inter webs . Poor judgement on her part with 100% expected consequences for it. There is no other part of life where you get the "right" to have your stupidity forgotten - not really. You have to become "a new person in a new land" to even try. Did she try doing that? No, she did not. Did she simply "own" reality and move on? No, she did not. These are the only real choices in any other circumstance - having it happen on the internet (by her own powers) doesn't change that.
Sorry, this does NOT prove any point supporting a "right to be forgotten"!! It only proves she was stupid.
Why is this a surprise? Why do some people think others should be protected against their own, severe stupidity?
Seriously, it was completely clear and obvious that this video would end up on the Internet. After all, she published it (by sending it to her ex) without conditions or restrictions on its use. That somebody utterly stupid (sorry for speaking ill of the dead, but it is a fact here) may take their own life when they realize how massively they have screwed up is also not new.
There is _zero_ need to do anything here. Stupid people will always be around and it is not possible to make the world safe for them. A lot of damage can be done by trying though, so the effort itself is utterly evil.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Is there anything anyone could say that would make you think that he's not a bigot for contributing to a group that has different ideas than you?
The KKK has different ideas from me, too. Guess what they are? Bigots, you fuckwit.