Apple Rumored To Remove Old-School USB Ports On Next MacBook Pro (vice.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: First the headphone jack, now the USB port? Rumor has it that Apple may get rid of the USB 3.0 port and the Magsafe port (where the charger plugs in) on the next generation of MacBooks. Japanese tech site Macotakara, which accurately predicted that Apple would kill the headphone jack on the iPhone 7, now also claims that the USB port is on the way out. The move would be similar to Apple's latest 12-inch MacBook and its streamlined profile. There's also word that Apple may discontinue the 11-inch MacBook Air to focus instead on the 13-inch laptop. Discontinuing the 11-inch MacBook Air would also potentially boost sales on the 12-inch MacBook. If these rumors are in fact true, then the new MacBooks will have only a USB-C and Thunderbolt 3 ports. Both of these ports are about the size of the part of an iPhone charger that plugs into the phone. But since most laptop accessories still plug in via the USB port, Apple owners might have to use an adaptor, or upgrade their technology. Meanwhile, the new MacBooks would likely be charged through the USB-C port or Thunderbolt 3 port. Currently, Apple already sells a USB-C dock with other USB and HDMI ports for $79. The USB-C port uses USB 3.1 Standard, according to PCWorld, which will connect to a wide variety of accessories, such as external hard drives, cameras, and printers. The USB 3.1 can also transfer data between the host computer and the peripheral accessories at a speed of 10 gigabits per second, which is twice as fast as the USB 3.0. Apple is expected to reveal the new Macs at an October 27th event in Cupertino, California.

Comments

I only want one feature

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a 2011 MacBook Pro.

There is only one feature I require to justify an upgrade: a matte display.

Apple didn't not provide it. Therefore, no upgrade.

Re:I only want one feature

[ayesnymous]

Did your 2011 Macbook Pro die from the GPU problem yet?

No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[seoras]

That would not be good. I've tripped over my power cable far too many times and been grateful for having Magsafe.
I had hoped Apple would find a way of continuing MagSafe with USB-C even though they didn't with the MacBook.
The only way I can envisage Apple keeping MagSafe with USB-C is to re-located it to the power brick end of the cable.
Feels like a big step backwards if they don't do something to retain one of the best psychical features of Mac laptops.

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[dgatwood]

Actually, it would be really easy to keep. You just make a six-inch USB-C-to-MagSafe adapter and plug your existing MagSafe or MagSafe 2 cable into that adapter. As an added bonus, the too-weak magnet used in MagSafe 2 would be adequate if it were in the middle of a cable instead of in a position to get knocked loose by your lap. And a MagSafe connection even a few inches into the cable would be just as good as a MagSafe connection on the device.

Unfortunately, thanks to Apple's over-patenting, the only company that can legally make such an adapter is Apple, so if they don't, the average cost of owning a Mac just tripled.

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[93 Escort Wagon]

I wonder what the thinking was during the transition from MagSafe to MagSafe 2? Were the original MagSafe connectors not always detaching?

Opinion-wise, I'm of the same mind as the GP. I have tripped over Mac power cords and had the connector detach, potentially saving me from a costly repair. Worse, I've seen the same thing happen with my boss' MacBook USB-C connection... and the laptop went flying across a table (fortunately we caught it before it made it to the edge).

It's also harder to find compelling engineering arguments in support of removing stuff like the headphone jack or USB ports from a laptop. There's a lot more space even in a thin laptop compared to a thin phone, and the amount of additional battery you might be able to add in those "freed up" spaces is insignificant.

All in all, I'm content with the 2015 MacBook Pro I have from work. An Ethernet port would've been nice, but I can live without it. But I use the (regular) USB ports all the time, and I use the SD slot enough that having to carry one or more USB-C adapter dongles around would be quite annoying. And really - if you have to carry dongles, was it really gaining anything just to save an extra 5 mm in laptop thickness? I predict that, after the announcement, there's going to be a run on previous MBPs on the refurbished store.

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[rgbscan]

They already sell these on Amazon. Look for "breakaway usb-c cable"

Re: No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[fluffernutter]

I've tripped over ThinkPad cables and they were fine.. because they were built properly. On the other hand my mac port falls out every single time I move my laptop which is incredibly annoying.

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[dgood]

I wonder what the thinking was during the transition from MagSafe to MagSafe 2?

Size. The original MagSafe connector was significantly larger than MagSafe2. In order to have a thinner laptop they had to make it thinner. That's probably the reason for abandoning MagSafe altogether -- the new laptops likely aren't thick enough to provide a big enough area for a magnet to hold onto.

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[AdamThor]

Holy shit, magsafe is the best freaking thing in the entirety of the Apple universe. It is an oversight that it isn't on everything. iphones. ipads. Other vendors laptops. Electric toothbrushes. Vacuum sweepers. Magsafe is the pinnacle of all of Apple's output. It is genius so banal that mediocrity must slay it.

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[dgatwood]

MagSafe 2 would be adequate if it were in the middle of a cable instead of in a position to get knocked loose by your lap. And a MagSafe connection even a few inches into the cable would be just as good as a MagSafe connection on the device.

You readily admit that the MagSafe connector can be knocked free by your lap, yet you think moving it to the cable would be just as good? What exactly do you think would happen when you apply that same force to a connector that plugs in to the laptop?

Nothing. Connectors are designed to handle a certain amount of force in an upwards or downwards direction. Any connector that can't handle this is fundamentally flawed by design. The original MagSafe was much better at not disconnecting. Only MagSafe 2 is hopelessly inadequate (because the magnets are too small).

The purpose of MagSafe is not to prevent damage to the jack or the cable. The purpose is to ensure that when you trip over the cable, it doesn't pull the ultra-light laptop off the table, causing it to shatter when it hits the floor.

Putting it a few inches down the cable will move the disconnection point away from the laptop itself to a point where it won't be pressed against your leg, and thus where the MagSafe connector being as thick as the machine won't matter. But the breakaway force would still be roughly the same, and far smaller than the amount of force needed to pull the laptop off of the table. Thus, it would still serve its primary purpose.

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[dgood]

The major driver in Magsafe 2 was to change the format so that people weren't constantly trying to plug USB devices in it. Magsafe was almost identical to USB type 1? Magsafe 2's thinner wider connector isn't.

I think you have it backwards. I'm looking at the side of my office mate's MacBook Air and the MagSafe2 connector looks to be about the same size as the USB-A port right next to it. My wife has a circa 2009 MacBook pro and the MagSafe connector is thicker and was next to the Ethernet port. Much easier to mistake the MagSafe2 for the USB port right next to it.

Re: No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[Osgeld]

I'm not a bumbling fuckwit who places his power cable in the path of walking

Know how many times I have tripped on a laptop power supply

Once and it was some numbnuts Mac user stringing it across the floor in a public space

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[seoras]

Thanks for the tip off. I've been thinking about it most of today, mostly wondering why Apple didn't do the same as the "BreakSafe" from Griffin.
I suspect it's down to Apple's design drive for simplicity.
Here on /. we're all technically adept but we often don't see things the way non-technical users do.
You only have to look through the comments on here to see a lot of negativity towards Apple.
Most of this comes from frustrations over the lack of "customisation" and perceived nannying.
What I think we techies forget is that Apple doesn't care about us, they have always focused on the non-technical consumers.
The ordinary users who couldn't care less about the difference between USB3 and USB-C.
Going back to the BreakSafe solution; it's probably too complicated for enough people to take their new mac into an Apple store complaining they can plug anything into it because there's no port.
Only for the staff to pull out the Breaksafe end stuck in the Mac and say "you plug your memory stick in here Sir" :-/
Remember the story about the support call from the guy claiming the coffee holder broke off his new deck top computer?
Turns out the "coffee holder" was the CD drive.

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[skaag]

I trip it ALL the time. My wife does it, too. My daughter does it as well (she's a 3 year old).

I will not be upgrading to a new MacBook if MagSafe is dropped, because for the amount of money I'd spend on a MacBook Pro, I might as well get a more powerful laptop that isn't made of bendy metal (which BTW sucks!), and run Linux on it.

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[bingoUV]

First they came for the ethernet port, but I didn't speak up because I could live without one.

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[macs4all]

First they came for the ethernet port, but I didn't speak up because I could live without one.

That's actually pretty funny...

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[macs4all]

They already sell these on Amazon. Look for "breakaway usb-c cable"

Oh yeah, right! Like those breakaway headphone cables I've seen.

Kinda pricey; but looks like it would be much cheaper than a new laptop!

Oh, and speaking of accessories for the new MacBooks, this might be becoming more popular, too...

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[macs4all]

What I think we techies forget is that Apple doesn't care about us, they have always focused on the non-technical consumers.

Only because they outnumber us techies about 1,000,000:1

And that is most likely a very conservative ratio, seriously.

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[macs4all]

I trip it ALL the time. My wife does it, too. My daughter does it as well (she's a 3 year old).

I will not be upgrading to a new MacBook if MagSafe is dropped, because for the amount of money I'd spend on a MacBook Pro, I might as well get a more powerful laptop that isn't made of bendy metal (which BTW sucks!), and run Linux on it.

Here. Your worries are over. Upgrade at will...

And if you want to run Linux on your MacBook Pro, you can do that, too. I wouild suggest doing it with Parallels Desktop of VMWare Fusion, so you can keep macOS around so you actually have access to decent software; but whatever.

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[macs4all]

An adapter may be better than nothing, but it is still a step backwards. Unless it is pulled out straight, there will still be significant torque and strain on the connecter. MagSafe was fine as is. This is just another senseless reduction of functionality by Apple.

It all depends on how strong the magnets are in either case. and quite frankly, the magnets in the "cable version" (like the Griffin "BreakSafe"), can be (should be) much weaker than ones in the MagSafe connector; because they won't have to directly resist all the torquing that results from the laptop being pushed around on YOUR "laptop", as you naturally move around.

I have a 2013 non-retina MacBook Pro with original, more "powerful" MagSafe; and the cable is just stiff-enough to want-to yank the connector out (no big whoop, since a laptop has a built-in Uninterruptable Power Supply). But if I were to replace that with a Griffin BreakSafe cable (assuming my MacBook Pro also grew USB-C ports), the cable near the laptop would be able to flex like normal, but if it somehow got yanked, the magnetic connector would disengage before any harm could come to the laptop, or its built-in connector.

Best of both worlds, IMHO.

Re: No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[macs4all]

I think apple is really starting to create an opportunity in the market for someone else to start making laptops.

Yes I know there are loads of crappy windows ones. But something good like a macbook pro/air with headphone jack and USB ports.

And that legally runs macOS?

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[skaag]

Thanks for that, even if I think that eventually with enough trippings of such a cable, the connector will damage the on-board female adapter and break the solder.

I still think it's absolutely stupid to remove the MagSafe adapter from the laptop, it doesn't take that much space. And I absolutely hate how USB-C feels when you connect it into a device. At least you can connect it without thinking about the direction/position, but it still feels terrible when you plug it in, and it's also kinda small and flimsy.

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[macs4all]

Thanks for that, even if I think that eventually with enough trippings of such a cable, the connector will damage the on-board female adapter and break the solder.

That's always a concern with SMT connectors, especially now that we have that despicable RoHS that ruined ALL solder connections for EVERYONE (except the Aerospace industry; because they KNEW better than to allow it!).

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[mjwx]

That would not be good. I've tripped over my power cable far too many times and been grateful for having Magsafe.

You need to be less of a klutz.

I've tripped over my power cable enough times to never have even thought of requiring something like Magsafe. With British and US plugs, they pull right out of the wall anyway, not like the AS/NZ3112 plug used in Australia that requires force to dislodge.

Re:No MagSafe would be a step backwards

[dgatwood]

I like bashing on Apple as much as the next guy, but how often does everyone else trip on their cables that removing the MagSafe charger equates to the almost mandatory need to replace the laptop before it's useful life is over?

It only takes once. The cost of replacing a shattered screen is a sizable percentage of the cost of the laptop.

only 2 ports and no power jack?

[Joe_Dragon]

only 2 ports and no power jack?

How fucking thing does this $1200+ laptop need to be and I can't get an NVIDA or ATI video card without paying at least $2000+

Re:only 2 ports and no power jack?

[EvilSS]

How fucking thing does this $1200+ laptop need to be

To meet Apple standards it needs to be at least 8.562 thing

Re:only 2 ports and no power jack?

[JustNiz]

If you're enough of a gamer to want to use an nVidia or AMD video card, then just buying any Apple product seems like a particularly bad move in the first place.

Re:only 2 ports and no power jack?

[GNious]

I like how gaming is the only use you can think of for a nVidia/AMD GPU ....

Re:only 2 ports and no power jack?

[JustNiz]

yep :-)

Re:only 2 ports and no power jack?

[unixisc]

They're probably figuring that OS X alone makes the laptop so much more valuable than fully featured laptops running Windows 10, just b'cos of the OS being used.

That said, why does the summary talk about the USB port in terms of version number? That says nothing. The proper way to describe a USB port and what sort of USB port we'll have would be the type used - Type A, Type B, Type C, Mini USB, Micro USB, et al. If Apple is thinking of dropping a Type A USB port, how does it expect anyone to connect that laptop to a printer? Or do they expect everybody to print to iCloud?

Re:only 2 ports and no power jack?

[friedmud]

The current rumors are for 4 USB-C ports and at least one Thunderbolt (and even possibly a Lightning port for headphones).

We're just going to have to wait and see what's announced...

Re:only 2 ports and no power jack?

[Bongo]

I thought Thunderbolt could now use USB-C plugs, so it could be 4 of those, but with different tiny eentsy-weeny icons.

The first detail I'll be reading when they're available is, how many different adapters will have to be combined to get my setup working?

Re:only 2 ports and no power jack?

[Visarga]

Deep learning and scientific calculation are also dependent on nVidia GPUs, and I seldom hear anyone suggesting Apple for that use case. Maybe a MacBook for SSH.

Re:only 2 ports and no power jack?

[macs4all]

only 2 ports and no power jack?

How fucking thing does this $1200+ laptop need to be and I can't get an NVIDA or ATI video card without paying at least $2000+

What? You are bitching about the hardware specs of a product NOT EVEN RELEASED?!?

The Hate is strong in this one...

Re:only 2 ports and no power jack?

[macs4all]

Deep learning and scientific calculation are also dependent on nVidia GPUs, and I seldom hear anyone suggesting Apple for that use case. Maybe a MacBook for SSH.

Well, maybe if you realized that nVidia supports Apple's F/OSS OpenCL Project on all CUDA-compatible GPUs, you would realize that there may just possibly be people doing things with things that you know nothing about.

Re:only 2 ports and no power jack?

[macs4all]

I thought Thunderbolt could now use USB-C plugs, so it could be 4 of those, but with different tiny eentsy-weeny icons.

The first detail I'll be reading when they're available is, how many different adapters will have to be combined to get my setup working?

As far as "combining adapters" (as in stacking one adapter into another), I would say, "zero". If you are talking about "cables", depending on your "Setup", maybe none. Or one, if you want to charge your laptop, two if you want a second or third monitor.

Honestly, if your "setup" requires a bunch of wired peripherals, then I would suggest a USB-C hub. There are several available with different combinations of connectors/interfaces. That way, you only "consume" one USB-C connector on the laptop, and have the ease of simply detaching one cable when you want your laptop to stop acting like a desktop and be mobile.

Re:only 2 ports and no power jack?

[JustNiz]

nVidia supporting it and Apple supporting it are 2 very different things.

Re:only 2 ports and no power jack?

[macs4all]

nVidia supporting it and Apple supporting it are 2 very different things.

I thought Metal was partially based on, or could at least use, Open CL. If that's the case, why wouldn't Apple support it?

COURAGE

[fyngyrz]

No standard USB ports?!?!?

Such COURAGE!

/s

Re:COURAGE

[Hognoxious]

This isn't courage. It's HEROISM!

Or is it Sparta? I'm fucked if I know.

Re:COURAGE

[fyngyrz]

Sparta? This... this is Sparta, you say? Then... then... YES! YES!

\_(oo)_/

They brought news about the trash can mac "pro." What else could be done?

Re:COURAGE

[Calydor]

Well, I guess it's Spartan, at least.

Re:COURAGE

[dgatwood]

Meh. Most people who carry around USB devices can carry around a different cable just as easily. In the grand scheme of don't care, it's a lot less annoying than the headphone jack would have been.

And as much as I think removing the HDMI port is annoying, the truth is that I already have to carry around a retractable HDMI cable, so carrying an adapter for the relatively rare situations where I use the HDMI cable isn't that annoying either.

What is annoying, if true, is the removal of the SD card slot. Yes, Apple's SD card slot is many years out of date and should have been updated at least half a decade ago to support UHS-II, but Apple's inclusion of an SD card slot, slow as it is, has been a significant driving force in pushing camera companies to move to SD instead of CF, and has resulted in standardization that otherwise would not have happened.

Without that anchor, the industry is very likely to devolve into the wild west of card formats again. In five years, some consumer-level cameras will use CFast, others will use UHS-II SD, and others will use XQD. I wouldn't be surprised to see three or four other formats by the time all is said and done.

If true, this is a crippling blow for standards. And I really have to ask what makes this laptop "pro" at that point. It sounds like the only meaningful difference between it and the standard MacBook will be a second USB port. They're apparently dropping all the other distinguishing features that made it worth hundreds of dollars more—the HDMI port, the SD card slot, MagSafe... and the only thing replacing all that lost hardware functionality is a set of soft-reconfigurable action buttons at the top of the keyboard. Whee.

Re:Courage

[TeknoHog]

I also don't understand why an Apple product needs a charger. By the time the battery runs out, it's already obsolete and you should buy a new model.

Re:Courage

[JustNiz]

>> Looking forward to iEcho.

a.k.a. iDoorstop.

Re:COURAGE

[vux984]

Meh. Most people who carry around USB devices can carry around a different cable just as easily. In the grand scheme of don't care, it's a lot less annoying than the headphone jack would have been.

Until someone hands you a flash drive... your need to move a file via flash drive between two computers.

That would be yet another fucking dongle for mac owners to have to carry around for no good reason. (first was the ethernet dongle)

Watch them go back to something useless like minihdmi or minidisplayport too.

If true, this is a crippling blow for standards. And I really have to ask what makes this laptop "pro" at that point.

And the anwser is: Nothing. Its just got more diskspace and more ram.

a set of soft-reconfigurable action buttons at the top of the keyboard. Whee.

Pretty much. I've had pro mac laptops for years, and each one gets less "pro" than the one I had before. I was already waffling between dropping mac laptops and getting something else with my last "upgrade". But I stuck with it... this time... there is literally no reason to stay with mac. Mac has jumped off a cliff and the other venders are making perfectly good units. I'll buy a cheap macbook air for the house just to keep a hand in OSX, and get something else to use for work.

Re:Courage

[fluffernutter]

Don't give Apple any ideas.

Re:COURAGE

[Anonymous Coward]

In this refresh we removed even more features you rely on, and then charged you extra for the privilege.

Apple. Because we don't give a shit about what you actually need.

Re:COURAGE

[AmiMoJo]

What USB cable? All flash drives have the USB connector built in.

Re:COURAGE

[dgatwood]

With the way Apple is designing products these days, someone really ought to dig him up, strap magnets to him, and power half the Bay Area.

Re:COURAGE

[dgatwood]

Fair enough. I basically stopped using flash drives when I realized I could tether to my phone and upload single-file backups to my computer at home without having to fumble around with a USB device that's thicker than my laptop, but for folks who use flash drives regularly, not having any standard USB ports would be a pain.

The good news is that Sandisk makes a flash drive with USB on one end and USB-C on the other end. If that trend continues, this won't be a problem for very long.

Re:COURAGE

[Anonymous Coward]

UX-501 ASUS may serve well as a hackintosh.

It's aluminum, 4k display, DDR4, 0.5TB SSD, 5 lbs, and nVidia graphics for about $1500.
It also has Thunderbolt 3, HDMI, USB 3.0, and a headphone jack =D

Re:COURAGE

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe I'm an odd case; I travel a lot, so having things that are compact and multifunctional is vital. My Macbook Pro isn't the lightest or the smallest anymore, but it packs all the power, features and ports that I actually use on a day to day basis (HDMI, power, USB, headphones, SD card). I don't have to carry around a rucksack full of dongles, peripherals, extra batteries; just laptop+charger, and I'm good to go anywhere in the world. I can pack everything for a three day trip in a carry on, be able to hit the ground running when I get there and keep my GPS, phone and camera charged through the laptop with a simple an ubiquitous micro USB cable.

If the choice is a new MBP and half a dozen adapters, of which I'd only be able to use a couple at a time, or another manufacturer's device, then I guess I'm learning to love Linux on the desktop...

Re:COURAGE

[Scarletdown]

If that worked, we would already be seeing fields full of feline-toast turbines instead of the ultra tall wind turbines we have around here.

Re: COURAGE

[Anonymous Coward]

And if only that public network wasn't multiple orders of magnitude slower than those flash drives. We can only dream.

Re:COURAGE

[Darinbob]

Carry around? The macbook is essentially a desktop computer for many people. It may go mobile now and then but not with a bunch of accessories. We have power adapters, display adaptess, test equipment, and a host of USB devices, all staying on the desks.

Apple needs to stop thinking of its macbook as a hipster toy used to show off to other cafe patrons, but as a real computer doing real work. And yet the damn thing still freaks out and resizes and moves every window every time a monitor is plugged into it as if the developers never bothered to debug that code as being too important enough.

And making it smaller? The current ones already overheat easily because of having everything packed into too small of a space, so that the most popular macbook accessory I see is the laptop stand. Because it's so hot you can't put the laptop on your lap anymore.

Please Apple, I want a larger screen display, I want the same ports to stick around from one year to the next, I don't want to see change for no purpose other than to have change. There is no way to make the macbook pro smaller and still make it usable - if you want tiny unusable tech jewelry then that's what the macbook air is for. If we buy your expensive adapters then what guarantee do we have that it won't change again in the near future? Listen to the customers for once.

Re: COURAGE

[Darinbob]

I dream that some day in the distant future, maybe a century from now, such networks will actually be secure enough to use.

Re:COURAGE

[Darinbob]

Now *that's* courage!

Re:COURAGE

[gl4ss]

wouldn't it be simpler if you didn't need to carry around an adapter?

wouldn't it be nicer if you could just go in a hotel room and attach your laptop via hdmi cable thats already in the hotel room(for tv box) to connect your laptop to it?

that is: are you reaaaaaaaaally only going places that have hdmi displays but don't have any hdmi cables already? because that's pretty dang strange.

"but Apple's inclusion of an SD card slot, slow as it is, has been a significant driving force in pushing camera companies to move to SD instead of CF, and has resulted in standardization that otherwise would not have happened." -- okay I give up you are full waist deep in the RDF already if you believe this really and not for example reasons such as sd cards are smaller and there's this class of devices that shipped by the BILLIONS that uses them. cameras don't matter jack shit.

Re:COURAGE

[aethelrick]

I think keeping the cats fed was the biggest challenge to the feline-toast turbine wasn't it?

Re:COURAGE

[davros74]

Yes, we will have to go back to the USB SD Card reader to transfer files. Except, no, wait, we will also need a USB-C adapter to hold the USB SD card adapter. I am guessing there are not too many USB-C SD card readers out there (certainly not in the possession of most people who still have USB 2.0 adapters they purchased years ago).

It is almost getting to the point of having a single "port" on the laptop and then having to have a hub device that breaks out all the useful things, like Ethernet, USB, HDMI, etc. In fact, I believe years past we used to call those.. docking stations. Except now you have to carry around your own docking station to make the laptop semi-useful again.

Not sure these ultrabook style devices are a win-win. I like the lighter weight, and most of the time you have to go the Ultrabook route to get the newer high-res screens (2560 or 4K), but the lack of IO - my bag didn't get any smaller. Instead of one big laptop that could do everything (including a DVD-RW burner), now you have to carry around endless drives, adapters, cables, hubs and power bricks with you. Yea.

Re:COURAGE

[davros74]

There are some very nice (and small) USB SD card readers. Loss of the SD card slot is understandable in my opinion. I usually use my USB card reader when I transfer files off my camera since most desktops do not have a dedicated SD card reader anyway. (My camera does have Wi-Fi, but turning on the radio, connecting to my network, and transferring files at WiFi speed doesn't compare to just copying the files directly off the SD card - the simplest method in Linux IMO).

Loss of USB Type A ports is far far bigger deal, and quite a headache. Now you will need a USB-C hub with type A ports just to use about every peripheral that is out there today.

Courage is it? Forced obsolescence is more like it. Thanks Apple.

Re:COURAGE

[macs4all]

nd the only thing replacing all that lost hardware functionality is a set of soft-reconfigurable action buttons at the top of the keyboard. Whee.

...and a set of multiple, multi-use, ultra-high-speed buses that can be easily adapted to pretty much any interface standard available.

IOW, you have utterly and completely failed to embrace the whole concept: That by exchanging a few, dedicated-use ports for a few multi-use ports, one of which (USB-C) is poised to become the Next Big Thing in peripheral interfaces, and which allows Apple to diplomatically and adroitly get out from under the Albatross that TB is turning out to be (unfortunately!), Apple will be releasing a new line of products that is much more "future proof" than some of its recent Mac products have been.

This will likely also result in a standardization toward using USB-C on the next iteration of iOS mobile devices, too; with appropriate "Lightning over USB-C" adapters being used until the switchover is complete.

At least, that's what I hope they have planned...

Now as far as MagSafe goes: I am sad to see that go away; but I have read (on Slashdot, in fact) that there are some technical issues with the "hot swap" nature of the connector, especially from contact arc-damage when disconnecting.

Re:COURAGE

[macs4all]

That would be yet another fucking dongle for mac owners to have to carry around for no good reason. (first was the ethernet dongle)

Those Ethernet "Dongles" (as you call them) are far from useless, since they provide a seldom-used (but still used) function in a laptop with good WiFi.

And Mac owners are generally OK with "Adapter World". In the end, it actually provides more flexibility for individual needs, without overly-complicating base designs or unnecessarily increasing hardware costs.

Re:COURAGE

[macs4all]

Yes, we will have to go back to the USB SD Card reader to transfer files. Except, no, wait, we will also need a USB-C adapter to hold the USB SD card adapter. I am guessing there are not too many USB-C SD card readers out there

Your guess would be incorrect. In fact, USB-C is fast becoming "The New USB" as far as Popularity goes.

Re:COURAGE

[vux984]

since they provide a seldom-used (but still used) function in a laptop with good WiFi.

Used an an awful lot by mobile pros who work with large files, or pros who configure networks. Maybe Apple should create a sku with a couple extra usb ports, a gigabit port, as thick as the 2011 mbp with the extra space used for battery. They could call it "Macbook Pro".

They can renamed the current macbook pro, macbook Air+

In the end, it actually provides more flexibility for individual needs,

Fewer options is greater freedoms! Taking things out provides more flexibility! What double think! What newspeak! Much wow!

without overly-complicating base designs or unnecessarily increasing hardware costs.

Nobody buying a $2500 pro laptop in 2016 is concerned about the cost of a few ports. Indeed that's what the $2500 is for... because we want it to have all these capabilities built in, and we're willing to pay what ever it costs to get it.

It's reached the point where I'm considering buying a thunderbolt dock to keep in my laptop bag. Has all the ports I'll need, and I'm less likely to misplace or forget it. And its cheaper than the combined price of all the hubs, adapters, and dongles I currently need to carry around.

But you know what would be really cool... if they put some extra battery in the dock. And added a keyboard, screen, touchpad, CPU, SSD, and RAM. Then I could just carry around the dock, and not bother with a useless laptop. ;-)

PS:

Those Ethernet "Dongles" (as you call them)

A dongle is a piece of hardware that attaches to a computer and allows a piece of secured software to run. [...]

The term dongle has expanded beyond software protection to include any small device that plugs into the Universal Serial Bus (USB) or other computer port, regardless of what it does. These devices are usually used to provide some function that is not built in to the computer itself. This includes adding memory, supplying Bluetooth® and WiFi® connections, and adding adapters so that other devices can be plugged in.

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-i...

Re:COURAGE

[mjwx]

Fair enough. I basically stopped using flash drives when I realized I could tether to my phone and upload single-file backups to my computer at home without having to fumble around with a USB device that's thicker than my laptop.

Because that one device can be plugged into anything with a standard USB port from my computer to my car, doesn't require me to carry around a separate cable and is cheap enough that I can just give them to people without worrying about getting it back or missing a phone call.

Beyond this, we're talking about Macs, so it's logical to assume the owner has an Iphone. Apple does not permit them to be used as mass storage devices.

Re:COURAGE

[macs4all]

Nobody buying a $2500 pro laptop in 2016 is concerned about the cost of a few ports.

I agree with that; but those same people want a laptop that has serious I/O bandwidth and the best-possible flexibility to meet their needs at a particular time (which are more likely to change, and be markedly different from user-to-user, for those same "serious users").

Fewer options is greater freedoms! Taking things out provides more flexibility! What double think! What newspeak! Much wow!

You are so not getting it!

What good is a dedicatedHDMI port if what you REALLY need is another port to connect to a SAN? What good is a dedicated Ethernet Port when what you really need another USB? So, having multiple, high-speed, identical I/O ports that can be easily and relatively inexpensively be adapted to one or more simultaneous uses is actually much more flexible and "future-proof" than having a fixed-number of dedicated ports. It. Just. Is.

It's reached the point where I'm considering buying a thunderbolt dock to keep in my laptop bag. Has all the ports I'll need, and I'm less likely to misplace or forget it. And its cheaper than the combined price of all the hubs, adapters, and dongles I currently need to carry around.

Now you're getting it! I couldn't agree more! If you have a set of often-used single-use or "legacy" ports you need on a regular basis, by all means, get a Dock/Hub! That actually makes much more sense, and again, provides you with much more freedom to provide the I/O that you need.

Now, tell me again: Exactly how is this a Bad Thing? How does it make the MacBook Pro less "Pro"?

Re:COURAGE

[dgatwood]

And as far as "listening to customers" goes, I think that Apple actually has a better track record of that than most. People hated scroll-bar direction-changes. Apple said "You can now have it either way".

Yeah, except that we hated it internally long before the public hated it, yet it didn't become an option until people screamed publicly. Apple's culture often behaves like a cult of personalities, where people blindly continue down the path chosen by a decision-maker even when dozens of people think they're wrong. IMO, the failure to accept internal criticism and adapt is Apple's biggest flaw, and if anything will be its downfall, it will be that.

Re:COURAGE

[dgatwood]

wouldn't it be nicer if you could just go in a hotel room and attach your laptop via hdmi cable thats already in the hotel room(for tv box) to connect your laptop to it?

I've never seen a hotel that had HDMI cables. Meeting rooms, sure, but not hotel rooms. Heck, half the time, you're lucky if you don't have to ask the front desk to get the factory remote so you can have an input button. And in meeting rooms, you can safely expect the adapters to start showing up, permanently attached to cables with metal straps.

"but Apple's inclusion of an SD card slot, slow as it is, has been a significant driving force in pushing camera companies to move to SD instead of CF, and has resulted in standardization that otherwise would not have happened." -- okay I give up you are full waist deep in the RDF already if you believe this really and not for example reasons such as sd cards are smaller and there's this class of devices that shipped by the BILLIONS that uses them. cameras don't matter jack shit.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. A lot of companies started putting SD card slots into laptops, including Apple, and that was a major driving force in killing off the half dozen competing standards that existed prior to that. The point is that where Apple goes, the rest of the laptop manufacturers tend to go.

Re:COURAGE

[dgatwood]

The whole concept is fundamentally flawed by design. We won't see TVs take USB-C as an input on a broad scale any time soon, because there's a huge installed base of equipment that standardized on HDMI back when Apple was still arguing about whether FireWire was better than USB. When you're manufacturing equipment with a life expectancy measured in decades rather than the three-year replacement cycle for computers and cell phones, backwards compatibility is an absolute requirement. So any transition from HDMI to USB-C, if that's even possible, will take at least 1-2 decades before it is complete. Until then, we're stuck with adapters.

Is it a good idea to make USB-C available? Yes. Is it a good idea to make it possible to pass video over USB-C? Yes. Is it the right time to ditch HDMI compatibility? Heck, no.

Re:COURAGE

[macs4all]

And as far as "listening to customers" goes, I think that Apple actually has a better track record of that than most. People hated scroll-bar direction-changes. Apple said "You can now have it either way".

Yeah, except that we hated it internally long before the public hated it, yet it didn't become an option until people screamed publicly. Apple's culture often behaves like a cult of personalities, where people blindly continue down the path chosen by a decision-maker even when dozens of people think they're wrong. IMO, the failure to accept internal criticism and adapt is Apple's biggest flaw, and if anything will be its downfall, it will be that.

So, you work for Apple?

Corporate Group-Think is never good, true; but it is also somewhat inevitable, because people (probably unnecessarily) fear for their jobs, and thus the pressure to be part of the 'herd" is nearly impossible for most people to overcome.

The problem is not unique to Apple, not by a long-shot. Doesn't make it right; but it does make it understandable.

Re:COURAGE

[david_thornley]

Actually, when Atlantis was about to sink, they took a lot of cats and fastened toast to their backs, so if they actually fell to the ground the cats wouldn't land on their feet or the buttered toast wouldn't fall on the buttered side, and suspended the continent from them. This worked until they forgot to feed the cats, so they had nothing to eat but the toast on each other's backs. This caused Atlantis to sink beneath the waves, a real cattoastrophe.

Re:COURAGE

[macs4all]

The whole concept is fundamentally flawed by design. We won't see TVs take USB-C as an input on a broad scale any time soon, because there's a huge installed base of equipment that standardized on HDMI back when Apple was still arguing about whether FireWire was better than USB. When you're manufacturing equipment with a life expectancy measured in decades rather than the three-year replacement cycle for computers and cell phones, backwards compatibility is an absolute requirement. So any transition from HDMI to USB-C, if that's even possible, will take at least 1-2 decades before it is complete. Until then, we're stuck with adapters.

Is it a good idea to make USB-C available? Yes. Is it a good idea to make it possible to pass video over USB-C? Yes. Is it the right time to ditch HDMI compatibility? Heck, no.

What are you smoking, and can I have some? I'm almost out...

I never suggested that TVs would switch from HDMI to USB-C. I was just saying that, with a general-purpose, high-speed, serial bus such as USB-C, you are only an inexpensive adapter away from a wide range of interfaces (including HDMI).

Re:COURAGE

[NotAPK]

"Apple does not permit them to be used as mass storage devices."

Which is just ridiculous.

Re:COURAGE

[NotAPK]

"Half a dozen adapters would still fit in a standard sandwich-sized plastic baggie;"

Which get lost, lent to friends/colleagues who are missing theirs or left in the projector/network cable when you're rushing to get that taxi back to the airport.

Professionals, those people who actually do work on their computers, don't like dongles.

Re:COURAGE

[vux984]

Now, tell me again: Exactly how is this a Bad Thing? How does it make the MacBook Pro less "Pro"?

Because I don't want to carry around 2 laptop sized devices, and then tether them together.
Because I want the laptop have the functionality built in precisely so they don't have to carry a bag of crap to attach to it to make it work.

IE I want, as I said, my laptop "built into the dock".

What good is a dedicatedHDMI port if what you REALLY need is another port to connect to a SAN? What good is a dedicated Ethernet Port when what you really need another USB? So, having multiple, high-speed, identical I/O ports that can be easily and relatively inexpensively be adapted to one or more simultaneous uses is actually much more flexible and "future-proof" than having a fixed-number of dedicated ports. It. Just. Is.

LMAO. That argument falls flat on its face. It would be true if for some reason you could only have 2-3 ports on your laptop. So each spot was choice... thunderbolt/usbc or hdmi? thunderbolt/usbc or ethernet? It's not a choice. You can have it all.

It's simply NOT an either or question you can buy a 15" dell precision laptop with all the ports a macbook pro has. (thunderbolt + usbc). So it's got ALL the same flexibility and future proofing of the macbook pro.

And it has displayport, hdmi, ethernet (rj45), sdcard reader, headset jack, and 4 USB 3 ports.

That Dell comes with Windows 7 pro, 10 pro, or even Ubunutu linux. I can even get it with a Xeon and 64GB ram if I want. Doesn't matter how much money i try and throw at apple, I'm stuck with 16GB ram with no option to upgrade.

Dell makes a PRO laptop. Apple doesn't make one anymore.

Apple should make something like the Dell but... with OSX.

But instead they keep turning their pro laptop into a faster macbook air plus. Which is great for the people looking for that. But damn... it sure would be nice if Apple made a pro laptop again.

Your argument is essentially that because the macbook pro has a couple thunderbolt ports it has the potential for the functionality you need. But the Dell has all the functionality built right in, AND it has all the potential to plug in more stuff that mac has AND you don't have to tie up the thunderbolt port with your network card and external keyboard so it'll actually be available if you need it. The mac pro isn't even in the same league anymore. Its a joke.

Re:COURAGE

[NotAPK]

Of course, but that experience creates a negative association with dongles that will become a factor when choosing a laptop/computer.

This whole thread has been a fun rant about what people think is important. It was basically a pub chat, and I envy those posting who enjoyed a cold beer while doing so. However, whatever is written here won't really impact any of us very much when we choose our next computer, for all the reasons you made in your post(s), and all the reasons I made in mine.

Re:COURAGE

[vux984]

Citation? There's about 57,000 "Dell Precision" laptops. Got a particular one in mind? For example, I don't see ANY Dell Precision Laptop that offers more than 32 GB of RAM, and even that one (7510) doesn't have USB-C, even as an option.

Yeah, the 7510

http://configure.us.dell.com/d...

operating systems: Windows 7 pro / windows 7 pro / or Ubuntu 14 LTS
ram : 8GB to 64GB RAM -- both ECC (for Xeons) and Non-ECC for i5/i7

USBC / Thunderbolt 3 are the same thing from everything I've read (am I wrong?). It's a 28$ option. Again, on that page... between the processors and the OS choices. Dell calls it a USBC port elsewhere too.

And in the end, it's still a POS plastic laptop with a POS Operating System.

Its really not though; its really well built. And it comes with Ubuntu LTS if you want it so its not even 'windows only'. Linux support from the OEM. You just burn your credibility by claiming its a POS.

And I say all this as a macbook pro owner. I've got 2 of them. 2011 and 2015. The high end dell business stuff is well made.

Re:COURAGE

[cthulhu11]

Nope. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/b...

Re:COURAGE

[dgatwood]

So, you work for Apple?

Past tense.

Re:COURAGE

[dgatwood]

My point was that it's inconvenient to have a platform that lacks standard I/O merely because of a new standard that's currently exclusive to a handful of computer monitors. Most people don't use HDMI with monitors. They use it with TVs, where HDMI is the standard; not a standard; the standard.

The thing is, they just added HDMI for compatibility four years back, concurrent with adding mini-DisplayPort, which could be adapted to HDMI, which means that the only reason for them to have added it was for easier compatibility with TVs. If it made sense to add HDMI just a couple of years ago and doesn't make sense to keep HDMI now, there's definitely something being smoked, but it isn't by me.

Re:COURAGE

[Darinbob]

I'm not switching to lower resolutions. I disabled all the retina junk and made my laptop resolution identical to my external monitors. It resizes windows, sometimes down to a thin title bar, sometimes windows are moved off screen except for a one pixel wide handle. I've ended up with a 1 by 2 inch window for some reason. And that's all before I connect to a projector or something else with smaller resolutions.

Re:COURAGE

[macs4all]

I'm not switching to lower resolutions. I disabled all the retina junk and made my laptop resolution identical to my external monitors. It resizes windows, sometimes down to a thin title bar, sometimes windows are moved off screen except for a one pixel wide handle. I've ended up with a 1 by 2 inch window for some reason. And that's all before I connect to a projector or something else with smaller resolutions.

Hmm. That's odd. What version of OS X?

Re:COURAGE

[Darinbob]

El Capitan now, but I've had problems since Leopard. It's better than it was but not completely gone.

Re:COURAGE

[macs4all]

El Capitan now, but I've had problems since Leopard. It's better than it was but not completely gone.

The only similar thing I can think of is the fact that there seems to be some weirdness with "forgetting" icon arrangements on the Desktop starting in Snow Leopard (IIRC), that I don't think was truly fixed for several major revisions. For some reason, it seems to affect some more than others; but I don't think I have ever heard of something where windows get squozen-down to a thin line.

This little Freeware Application might help.

Also, I assume you have done at least ONE "Clean Install" of OS X along the way, yes?

Re:COURAGE

[Darinbob]

Hmm, maybe once. These are work computers so generally they upgrade of IT does an image transfer. But once I got a loaner and then they told me to keep the loaner as they couldn't fix the mac, so I used time machine to get home directory and personal settings transferred. Next time I think I do want to start fresh, spend extra time only copying over real data files instead of the whole Library & Documents.

Re:COURAGE

[macs4all]

Hmm, maybe once. These are work computers so generally they upgrade of IT does an image transfer. But once I got a loaner and then they told me to keep the loaner as they couldn't fix the mac, so I used time machine to get home directory and personal settings transferred. Next time I think I do want to start fresh, spend extra time only copying over real data files instead of the whole Library & Documents.

Well honestly, I wish I could be of more assistance; but I really haven't heard of anything even remotely as weird as what you are describing, sorry!

Yeah, a clean install might be worth pursuing. Just like any modern OS, there are a zillion hidden knobs and switches, and all it takes is one never-reinitialized-variable, and...

Escalation?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm thinking of history.

1) Apple removes optical drives. These were widely used, but on the decline.
2) Apple removes 3.5mm jacks (how courageous). These are widely used, and holding steady.
3) Apple removes USB. These are widely used, and moreover critical for many peripherals, especially mice, keyboards, and thumb-drives. (I'm sure it will be a courageous first step, and the early adopters will get a free $300 proprietary mouse included when they buy the computer.)

They seem to be escalating. What next? Apple removes the monitor from the MacBook; although I guess if they did so it would easily let them create the thinnest, lightest, most portable MacBook ever.

Re:Escalation?

[bjb_admin]

No the next step is the keyboard, since it takes up a ton of space!

Re:Escalation?

[avandesande]

Remove all the guts and you have a nice high tech clamshell to carry around a paper pad and a pen.

Re:Escalation?

[Calydor]

I think the problem is that the form-factor has changed, which means you need new EVERYTHING.

That is the problem energy-saving light bulbs faced until they had the brilliant idea of going with the old form factor from incandescent bulbs: No existing lamps or lampshades would fit the new bulbs, so no one BOUGHT the new bulbs.

If buying a new computer also means buying a new cell phone, mouse, keyboard, speakers, digital camera, printer, scanner, etc. then people probably aren't going to be lining up to buy that new computer.

Re:Escalation?

[jedidiah]

There's no reason to remove "legacy" connectors if they don't actually get in the way. The only reason to do so is to fuck your end users.

Re:Escalation?

[dugancent]

They need to removed because a) they're bulky b) orientation specific c) obsolete.

This is not Apple deciding which way to go, it's the new USB spec.

Re:Escalation?

[maglor_83]

If this was about removing legacy USB, they would put 6 of the bloody things in.
If this was about catering to customers needs, they would have a 4-2 split.
If this was about making money from selling dongles, they would do what they have done.

Re:Escalation?

[SoCalChris]

The only one of those things that a legacy USB connector is is orientation specific. They're not bulky. They're ubiquitous. Your mouse dies and you need a new one at 3 in the morning? Run over to the local 24 hour drug store, they'll be there. Need to send a large file to someone with a bad internet connection? Send it on a USB thumb drive, you know if they've got a computer they'll be able to open it. This is the new spec, but there's no reason to remove the legacy completely at this point. Just like most new car stereos still have a CD player even though most people get their music online now. It's ubiquitous. Everyone can, and will continue using it for a long time.

Re:Escalation?

[snookiex]

I heard they will remove screens from iPads. Does that count as courageous?

Re:Escalation?

[Anonymous Coward]

Buying a new computer with USB-C interface means, at worst, buying (for $6.99) a pair of USB-C to USB-A adapters, you dimwit.

Which I now have to carry around with my MacBook.

Or, you buy a USB-C hub with power delivery for about $25, and plug all your USB-A devices into that, and your USB-C power cable into it as well, so you can charge & connect all your devices.

Which I would also have to schlep around with my MacBook, except it's ten times more bulky than an adaptor and I need to be next to a power outlet to use it.

*slowclap*

Jesus fuck. This is like arguing that installing solar panels on your house means you have to buy a new car, new appliances, upgrade the landscaping, and also paint your fucking house.

Not really. It's more like saying that when I buy a new house I need to replace all my appliances and half of my furniture. Even if you're really keen to move house that ought to be enough to give you pause.

It's incomprehensibly stupid to make this argument, yet here you are, making it.

Stupid is as stupid does, but at least one of us is smart enough to read to the end of a headline and realises that laptops are computers too.

Re:Escalation?

[newcastlejon]

Right, Apple - with approximately 230 billion USD in cash on hand - is really worried about the size of its bank account.

Yes, that's generally the best way to increase the size of one's bank account.

Re:Escalation?

[unixisc]

So one would then connect a Type C to the computer end, and Type B to the printer end? Or a Type C to the computer end and a Lightning connector to the iPhone? I checked out Microcenter some weeks ago - Type C is still a rarity in the market. Nothing as ubiquitous as Type A.

Re:Escalation?

[0100010001010011]

Apple removes SCSI. Apple removes the adb modem/printer port.

Apple adds wifi to all their machines.

Apple adds Gigabit ethernet to all their machines.

Apple adds optical out to most all of their machines.

Re:Escalation?

[unixisc]

That's not how a hub would be designed. Like right now, if you are putting a hub in between a PC and a bunch of peripherals, you'll have a PC's Type A connector go to a Type B on the hub, and from the hub, one of the Type As go to the destination - a microUSB on an Android phone, a lightning connector on an iPad, a Type B on a printer and so on. So now you'd need from the computer to the hub a Type C to Type B, and from the hub, the usual Type A to whatever connections.

Re:Escalation?

[unixisc]

Does USB 3.0 deprecate Type A for Type C? The way they deprecated mini USB for micro USB?

Re:Escalation?

[sim2lew]

If they don't care about the size of the bank account then why are they still selling computers?

Re:Escalation?

[friedmud]

1. Laptops come with built-in mice called trackpads. In Apple's case those trackpads are awesome and I guarantee you that 99% of people are using them.
2. Your "average" user never plugs anything into their laptop other than power... ever. My wife has literally _never_ plugged a single other thing other than power into her Macbook Air... and I suspect she never will.
3. There are already USB-C thumb-drives... many of them even have dual adapters built in (USB-C and USB-A). They aren't even expensive. This will be a non-issue.
4. Who uses "thumb-drives" anyway? File transfer is all done using Dropbox (or equivalent) or email.
5. The mice and keyboards Apple sells are generally wireless and won't have any issues with this change. Most other peripheral companies also make wireless keyboards and mice that will still work fine. "$300 proprietary mouse"? What are you smoking?
6. Even an actual USB-C _wired_ mouse (shudder) is only ~$10...
7. USB-C to USB-A adapters are $5-$6 for people who really need them.

I love how people love to invent apocalypses when Apple changes things. They always forget that normal people (non-technical people) "just use the machine the way it is" and won't be impacted by any of this.

Re:Escalation?

[friedmud]

For your printer: ($5 USB-C to USB-B) http://www.monoprice.com/produ...

For your iPhone: ($25 from Apple USB-C to Lightning)
http://www.apple.com/shop/prod...

Re:Escalation?

[Carewolf]

If this was about making money from selling dongles, they would do what they have done.

Right, Apple - with approximately 230 billion USD in cash on hand - is really worried about the size of its bank account.

How do you think they got that money???

How do your logic even work?

Re:Escalation?

[Anonymous Coward]

They already did that, it's called an iPad

Re:Escalation?

[Megane]

SCSI? nobody else (in the consumer market) used that

ADB? nobody else used that (it was for the keyboard/mouse, not printers)

Mini-DIN 8 RS-422 serial? nobody else used that

Firewire? hardly any non-Mac people used that, and most of the PCs that did used the stupid Sony iLink connector with no power so they could connect to cameras, and cameras don't use it anymore

Optical out? That stupid little switch in my MBP's headphone jack gets stuck into "optical cable present" mode when I unplug headphones, but fortunately I can store a toothpick (to unjam it) in the hinge area above the keyboard and it will still close properly

USB A? There are over 15 years worth of everybody using it, and the plugs are everywhere. I have a crate overflowing with cables and various thingies that use it. But nothing yet with USB C. Don't get me wrong, I think USB C is a good thing, but even modern TV sets that got rid of S-video inputs in favor of HDMI still have composite video inputs.

Re: Escalation?

[erik.opnemer]

USB-MIDI controllers? USB sound cards?

Re:Escalation?

[squiggleslash]

They're not removing USB, they're removing the original, large, four dimensional USB socket for USB-C. It's a standard USB port, and about the only inconvenience is that you'll need adapters or new cables for your older USB gear. Right now, I'm seeing "USB sticks" as being the main loser.

You guys think this is bad, but I started computing in the 1980s, and I can tell you back then this kind of thing would have been considered a giant leap forward. Virtually every brand of computer had:

1. Its own idea of what a keyboard port should look like
2. Its own idea of what a monitor port should look like
3. Its own idea of what a serial port should look like (hell, that even varied from model to model in a computer makers own product line.)
4. Its own idea of what a printer port should look like
5. Its own idea of what a mouse port should look like
6. Its own idea of what a joystick port should look like
7. Its own idea of what a disk drive port should look like

USB-A switching to USB-C? Great! They're switching from one standard to another, but it's still a well supported standard, and there are good reasons to do so. Well done Apple. Now, if you could add USB to your iDevices...

Re:Escalation?

[grumpy-cowboy]

Bulky? Now you will need to dongle to convert USB to USB-C. That's bulky!

Orientation specific? So what? Electrical outlet (3-prong) are orientation specific.Did this rally bother you ?

Obsolete? Seriously? I don't know on which planet you live on.

Re: Escalation?

[NotAPK]

Floppies were small, slow, and unreliable.

USB memory sticks are large, fast, useful, and as the parent poster stated, ubiquitous.

This is a stupid move.

Re:Escalation?

[NotAPK]

"Firewire? hardly any non-Mac people used that, and most of the PCs that did used the stupid Sony iLink connector with no power so they could connect to cameras, and cameras don't use it anymore"

Firewire is still very prevailant in the machine vision field. Of course USB3 is faster and being used on all new systems, but depending on the application, don't be surprised to find Firewire cameras* still around 5 to 10 years from now.

*real cameras that stream the images directly to the PC, not the "cameras" referred to by the parent poster, which means "camcorders" and was used to download the video from the on board tape/sd card, sometimes in realtime, in other cases not.

Re:Escalation?

[NotAPK]

""just use the machine the way it is" and won't be impacted by any of this."

Sure, you're right, but forgetting that the MBP is for professionals that actually do work with their computer.

As many others have already posted here, if the MBP offers no "professional" features then why bother? Other Linux/Windows laptops do actually provide those features and are a better choice for professional work. That is all.

Re:Escalation?

[friedmud]

Why do people think _they_ are the only professionals?

What "professional" feature is being lost here? The SD-Card reader? Because, arguably, it is _gaining_ features many professionals want: higher speed external connections.

For myself: I'm a professional. I develop high-performance, massively-parallel, multiphysics simulation code that runs on supercomputers. I do not care much at all about any of the external connection capability of my laptop (SD-Card, USB-A, etc.).

The new MBP will still be a very professional machine for me as long as it is powerful and fast.

Re:Escalation?

[NotAPK]

Mate, you're not a professional, you're a code monkey :)

Re:Escalation?

[friedmud]

Whatever that means. I'm a computational science researcher with ~70 publication, ~800 citations, an R&D 100 award and an award from President Obama for my work.

I'm pretty sure I use my equipment "professionally"... and am not bothered in the slightest by the removal of the SDCard reader...

Re:Escalation?

[NotAPK]

Sorry, I was being a dick and thought it would be funny.

MagSafe have save me tons of money

[BLToday]

I can't count the number of times I've tripped over a laptop cable. I've lost multiple hard drives but only one broken screen with my Windows laptops. Thanks to MagSafe I've lost zero anything on my MacBooks.

Re:MagSafe have save me tons of money

[chinton]

If you've lost multiple hard drives and a broken screen because you keep tripping over the cords, maybe you need to think about where you are plugging things in.

Re:MagSafe have save me tons of money

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the reason it's going away. It's too successful at saving you money (at the expense of Apple's bank account). Can't have features like that when you have to please the shareholders.

Re:MagSafe have save me tons of money

[kuzb]

It sounds more to me like the problem is with you, not the hardware. I've never tripped over a laptop cable, because I don't create situations where that's possible to do.

Re:MagSafe have save me tons of money

[BLToday]

Single guy? Just last week my wife who likes to work in bed decided to plug in her Macbook on my side of the bed, turned off the lights to take a nap and left the Macbook charging on the bed. Of course, I didn't want to wake her up and tried to navigate my way to my side of the bed and tripped on the charging cable. Some years ago, my niece (3 at the time) decided that it would be fun to go yanking wires at while visiting. My Dell flew off the kitchen island and cracked the screen.

Re:MagSafe have save me tons of money

[aaarrrgggh]

In fairness, it isn't always possible-- think meeting rooms and the like. MagSafe also makes plugging the adapter in a little easier one-handed.

Personally, getting rid of USB-A ports would keep me from replacing my MBA. Dongle Mayhem pisses me off, and if this is where they think they should be going with their laptops, they aren't for me. I fully understand the concept of a USB-C dock, and it isn't a terrible approach. Problem is when you aren't at your desk you end up bringing a second bag roughly the size of your laptop in order to be able to use a flash drive, Ethernet, external display, and power adapter. I am also a bit pissed off for having to buy all these stupid single-function thunderbolt dongles, but that is the Apple way...

Do these people not understand that wireless really sucks for some things?

Re:MagSafe have save me tons of money

[Anonymous Coward]

> If I walked into a meeting room with a trailing laptop cable, the person on the laptop end would be fired on the spot.

Oh wow you're so big and powerful.

Oh wait none of us work for you.

Re:MagSafe have save me tons of money

[Solandri]

My sample size is small, but I've had friends/clients come to me with 2 flaky Macbook AC adapters (with magsafe cords), vs 3 failed PC AC adapters and 1 failed laptop power socket.

If you factor in that PC laptop sales are approx 9x Mac laptop sales, the magsafe AC adapters have a 4.5x higher failure rate than the PC AC adapters.

Also, realize that magnetic power cords were used on deep oil fryers (where the cord trip hazard is much more serious) for decades before Apple used it on laptops. The only reason it's not used on PC laptops is because nobody wants to spend the millions it would cost to challenge a patent that was incorrectly granted to Apple for a pre-existing invention.

Re:MagSafe have save me tons of money

[mjwx]

I can't count the number of times I've tripped over a laptop cable. I've lost multiple hard drives but only one broken screen with my Windows laptops. Thanks to MagSafe I've lost zero anything on my MacBooks.

I can count the number of times I've tripped over a laptop cable and lost a hard drive or broken a screen.

Its zero.

I use this revolutionary technique called "looking where I put my feet". Next week we cant talk about the advanced technique of "stopping when you feel pressure on your shin".

Magsafe is a good argument for Mac Users being completely uncoordinated.

Re:MagSafe have save me tons of money

[cthulhu11]

Clearly you don't have kids.

Re:So, no more usb mouse?

[I4ko]

USB mouse? I've used Bluetooth mouse with Macs (desktops and laptops) since 08 and never had problems with them. First was an HP model, then a bunch of MS notebook Bluetooth mouse 5000, then another MS model - sculpt comfort, and currently Logitech - M535. I don't use USB or receiver based mice on any of my computers. The Apple produced mice were on the other hand crap, be it magic or apple.

Do they want to sell these things?

[HBI]

One gets the impression that they don't. I mean, I wasn't their market anyway. I absolutely despise the no-buttons touch panel on recent Macbooks. But not having any useful ports completely rules out the device even for my wife.

Re:Do they want to sell these things?

[HBI]

Yes.

Re:Do they want to sell these things?

[HBI]

The trackpad is very much a thing. 2014 Macbook Pro has one, and it has no buttons. For that matter, her prior 2009 edition had no buttons either.

Re:Do they want to sell these things?

[aaarrrgggh]

It takes about 15 minutes to get used to it and wonder why for your old laptop you needed a wireless mouse.

Courage

[iamacat]

Come on, why stop here? Now that OSX has Siri, let's also remove screen, trackpad and keyboard. Looking forward to iEcho.

There was a time I'd have called this a hoax.

[mmell]

Quite possible, these days. As a Linux/Android fan who doesn't use MS-Win products where anybody I know can see me let me be the first to say:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Film at 11.

[clonehappy]

Apple is removing a standard port.

The floppy drive made sense. Legacy/serial ports etc. too.
The optical drive made sense.
The headphone jack almost makes sense (under the right circumstances, but not for me so I won't be upgrading from my 6S+)
Removing the physical home button is simply retarded.
And the USB port?

Positively asinine. All the other ports were either obsolete or being replaced by other technologies. The USB port is a standard connector used by literally millions of devices. Hopefully, this is where Apple finally realizes they've jumped the shark, that removing more and more useful connections won't be bringing Jobs back from the dead, and they'll have to actually innovate or die.

I don't like Android's ecosystem for mobile devices. Google and their incessant spying just isn't my bag. But I'd rather see Apple die than continue to make stupid decisions over and over and over again to the point that their products end up being just a screen with content you do not control and an Apple logo on it that you are compelled by the EULA to stare at for 8 hours a day lest your license to stare at the device be revoked and the hardware is bricked. Because that's where it ends up.

Re:Film at 11.

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering how much complaining there was about the ones you claim made sense I think the smart money is betting with Apple here.

USB C is strictly superior to the Type A ports that are common now. The only reason anyone cares at all is because their existing peripherals don't have type C ports, but that's solvable with an adapter in the short term, and will go away in the long term when peripheral manufacturers refresh their products and support the new port.

This is almost exately what happened with the original iMac and it's use of USB for everything that made people mad they couldn't connect their various pre USB peripherals but demand for iMac periphrials got people using the USB ports they didn't know they had on their Wintell PCs and before long everything was USB.

Re:Film at 11.

[fluffernutter]

Are you handing out adapters for free? Are you going to hold it for me when I'm not using it so that it doesn't get lost? Are you going to make sure it is available every time I need it?

Re:Film at 11.

[0100010001010011]

USB-A is a legacy port.

USB-C is not.

Re:Film at 11.

[friedmud]

The adapters are ~$5.

If you can afford a $2000 computer... then you can buy an adapter for each one of your old peripherals and leave it there.

But seriously... what do you plug into your machine?

Any _actual_ Mac user is most likely using a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse/trackpad if they're using any peripherals at all. We're not talking about some shitty Wintel laptop with a crappy trackpad here... where you are basically forced to use a mouse just to use the machine. The trackpads on Macs are awesome...

_Maybe_ an external HD... maybe.

This is actually a good question for a Slashdot poll... I'm honestly interested in how many people are actually still using a USB-A peripheral on a daily basis with their laptops.

Re:Film at 11.

[aaarrrgggh]

While I don't agree with it, USB-C is supposed to unify Thunderbolt and USB in the next generation of processors IIRC. It is functionally logical to have a USB-C port on either side of the laptop and be done with it.

It will then look very pretty and symmetrical on the sales table. It will work well for 70-80% of the use-cases out there with one or two extra dongles. If you aren't in that category, you are out of luck because all the manufacturers will go this direction soon.

And, they get to create metric shittons of e-waste as everyone is forced to throw out all their old power supplies, chargers, and other stupid dongles.

Re:Film at 11.

[fluffernutter]

I have old usb keyboards and mice kicking around that we use. Also we use flash drives a lot and android phones. We have some usb mics.

If I have purchased a $2000 computer why should I have to keep a set of dongles around so that I can use the system properly? A $2000 computer should do everything I need it to out of the box. It shouldn't have to be 'completed' with a $5 dongle.

Re:Film at 11.

[NotAPK]

All those features you dismiss are what professional people are actually using to do *real work*.

In the world of sales/management/engineering/education/research you often have to go to other places in the world to talk to other professional people. You often need to show them things and share ideas, as well as swap files.

All of these tasks are infinitely easier if you have standard ports to connect to networks, standard ports to connect to a projector/second monitor, standard ports to connect to peripherals, as well as a standard port to connect to removable storage.

Dongles and adapters get in the way. The number of meetings I have been in that were significantly impacted, if not outright cancelled, because someone didn't have the right adapter or connector is ridiculous.

Rather than get rid of standard ports we should have more of them. Standard power for laptops would be a huge step forward. Pick a suitable voltage (19V seems pretty standard) and either print the wattage in big numbers on the brick and on the device. Users will learn that the number on the brick has to be bigger or equal to the number on the device. There should be no penalty for doing it wrong, just no charging/power. If using watts directly is "too hard" for the user then use something similar to the SD "class" system and agree on fixed power ratings. This doesn't prohibit a manufacturer making a special power brick: "wow, have you seen the Apple 60W/Class3 power supplies? They're tiny!". But it does ensure that when the OEM supply breaks you can replace it with whatever you like.

How much better would such a world be?

This isn't innovation Apple - you jumped the shark

[StandardCell]

How can any company in the PC market sell something without at least one USB 3.0 port??? It is the most ubiquitous data transfer connection available and has virtually universal compatibility with peripherals. Or did their marketing idiots think they can make another $39 for an adapter peripheral that's clunky and easy to lose? It can't be for space reasons and they can't pull the "we're trying to waterproof it" bullshit this time.

Topping this off is no Magsafe, which is infinitely better than the round connector I have on a couple of Dell laptops I own and saved the Macbooks I owned for years from falling.

Apple, you're not edgy or innovative any more. You're just being greedy and/or stupid and apparently don't want my business nor that of many other people? Sure, I'm a "tech nerd" but this time you're going to piss off the average buyer of your products.

Piece of advice: go back to what you had on the mid-2013 non-Retina Macbook Pro in terms of serviceability and I/O, and update it with Kaby Lake CPUs and a new Nvidia 10xx-series GPU and a non-glossy display, and you'll rip your competitors to shreds.

Not happy at all for a "Pro" laptop from Apple....

[King_TJ]

I've been a long time Apple supporter, even going so far as to pay all the $$$'s for one of the late 2013 "trash can" Mac Pro workstations, shortly after it was released. (I did that only because I owned both a 2006 and 2008 Mac Pro tower before it, and both were excellent computers that I got years of daily use out of -- paying for themselves several times over with the work and entertainment value I got out of them. I figured I'd invest in the new direction Apple was taking things, with faith they'd make sense of what seemed at first to be kind of a step backwards in design and functionality.)

Well, unfortunately, what I'm seeing is a trend away from Apple catering at all to "power users" or "computer enthusiasts". Under Steve Jobs, at least their push towards minimalist styling/design was still well-balanced with giving the user what they really needed to get things done. (EG. When Apple declared the 3.5" floppy was dead and removed it? The rest of the Windows PC world thought that was crazy. Yet the advent of IOMega Zip disks, Syquest cartridges, dirt cheap CDR media, flash drives, SD and CF cards and more proved Apple was right. They were just pushing people a little further towards that "cutting edge" of tech, instead of sitting complacent in the middle of the "tried and true, but fading in usability" zone of technology. And when Apple decided to quit including optical drives in any of their systems? Again, some people threw fits but it's ultimately proved to be the sensible solution. External CD/DVD/Blu-Ray players and recorders are cheap and easy to plug in if/when needed, and they don't bulk up or weigh down a computer when you DON'T intend to use one. It also means when they break down, which they do fairly often with all their mechanical parts inside, they're easier to replace.)

With Thunderbolt? I feel like Apple tried, once again, to "skate to where they thought the puck was going to be" instead of to where it was. But that time, perhaps they took a chance and weren't quite right. Nonetheless, it wasn't really a big problem for users because it was only there in addition to plenty of other ports. The ability for Apple's Thunderbolt port to double as a "Mini DisplayPort" connector ensured people would use it with a dongle to attach extra monitors even if they never used it for anything else. And on higher end systems like my Mac Pro? It's actually quite useful since you pretty much need some kind of external drive enclosure to have a decent amount of storage space directly attached to the machine. There are a number of good options for multi-drive cabinets with Thunderbolt connections, and it provides great throughput without bottlenecking a USB bus.

But now, I feel like options are getting deleted just because Apple would prefer to have fewer configuration options to stock in their lineup, or because they're pushing change just for the sake of being different. (That whole elimination of matte vs. glossy displays is a great example, even if it still happened under Steve Job's watch. There was clearly a LOT of demand for anti-glare screen displays, yet Apple simply ignored it and told people "Tough luck. We think you'll love our product enough to buy it anyway, so we don't care.")

This move to USB-C? I think the new standard is just fine for netbooks or "Ultraportables" where people are primarily concerned about how light and thin it is, and probably don't WANT to connect very much up to it. But it definitely has no business in a Macbook PRO laptop being sold any time this year ... Not unless it's just there in additional to a couple of regular USB 3.0 ports. Otherwise, you're ignoring a universal standard that has no signs of dying yet. Go shop for a new inkjet printer and tell me how many have USB-C connections on them vs. traditional USB right now. Same for any digital cameras with connection cables.)

Secondarily, I agree that this change means eliminating a connector (mag-safe) that really does offer a great feature that competing laptops never had. IMO,

Replacing USB-A with USB-C != removing USB

[j2.718ff]

Apple may get rid of the USB 3.0 port

I've only heard about plans to replace USB-A with USB-C, not to eliminate USB ports. USB-C is an actual standard that already exists. USB-A to USB-C adapters are easy to come by, and as time goes on, more and more devices will be using USB-C. I have no problem with this. In fact, my cell phone already has a USB-C port.

Re:Replacing USB-A with USB-C != removing USB

[rahvin112]

USB-A is going to be around for a LONG time, particularly given all the peripherals that still use A. It's is beyond premature to remove it from a laptop, hell it will probably still be premature in 5 years. USB-A is the only USB connector that's valid all the way from USB 1.1 to USB 3.1. It's not like they are space constrained on a laptop. This idea that there should be only one port on a laptop is just fucking stupid. It literally costs pennies to add 3 or 4 ports to a laptop as the support is already built into the motherboards and CPU and no additional chips are needed, only the USB header and traces (which are probably already there).

Every single laptop should come with at least 2 USB-C and 2 USB-A ports that fully support every USB version from 1.1 to 3.1 so you don't need a fucking USB hub to use your laptop.

Re:Replacing USB-A with USB-C != removing USB

[friedmud]

Try $25: http://www.apple.com/shop/prod...

USB-C to USB-A adapters are like $5 on Amazon if you _really_ need one.

Seriously... this is MUCH ado about absolutely nothing.

Re:Replacing USB-A with USB-C != removing USB

[thegarbz]

USB-A to USB-C adapters are easy to come by

I just finished buying a new set of apple approved pants for all the various adaptor cables that I'm always forced to carry with me to use common commodity and widely used hardware with Apple devices. Don't tell me I need to upgrade my pants AGAIN!

Fuck it. I'm buying a dell. Then I'm buying pants so baggy that Vanilla Ice wouldn't know how to shuffle in them. That way I can do away with adapters and just carry an entire frigging docking station, spare mouse, 100 earbuds since I keep losing the ones that fall out of my ears, a keyboard with actual keys that's nice to type on, and a monitor with a matte screen in them.

Re:Replacing USB-A with USB-C != removing USB

[j2.718ff]

USB-A to USB-C adapters are easy to come by

I just finished buying a new set of apple approved pants for all the various adaptor cables that I'm always forced to carry with me to use common commodity and widely used hardware with Apple devices. Don't tell me I need to upgrade my pants AGAIN!

Fuck it. I'm buying a dell. Then I'm buying pants so baggy that Vanilla Ice wouldn't know how to shuffle in them. That way I can do away with adapters and just carry an entire frigging docking station, spare mouse, 100 earbuds since I keep losing the ones that fall out of my ears, a keyboard with actual keys that's nice to type on, and a monitor with a matte screen in them.

But you don't need to buy those adaptors from Apple, since USB is a standard. Heck, my non-Apple Android phone has a USB-C port. Proprietary ports are stupid, but USB-C is at least a standard connection. Personally, I hope other companies start putting USB-C ports in their laptops too... though I think the ideal solution for now would be to have a few USB-A, and a few USB-C ports.

Re:Replacing USB-A with USB-C != removing USB

[thegarbz]

I never said I was buying anything from Apple. Just that I need new pants because my old ones don't fit all my adapters.

Proprietary ports are stupid, but USB-C is at least a standard connection

With that logic we should be putting IEEE1284 ports on devices instead. It has the added benefit of currently being a more widely used standard in the world than USB-C.

A "standard" (the thing written on a piece of paper) is worthless if it isn't the "standard" (the common thing people do) way of connecting devices. Look if it were 2020 we wouldn't be having this discussion, but it's not. It's 2016, and I can barely by anything other than a few over priced USB sticks, some proof of concept devices, and a shit-ton of adaptor cables to suit USB-C. I suggest maybe a few more years of adaptors that work the OTHER way before we standardise on devices that work out of the box with almost nothing.

Foxtrot saw this coming

[Alypius]

Bill Amend was prescient.

Leave the CFO in charge

[itomato]

And this is what you get. It should come as no surprise we see bullshit like the Watch Edition and a castrated Macbook and iPhone.

Re:This isn't innovation Apple - you jumped the sh

[dugancent]

You can go on amazon and get an assload of USB-C to USB 3 adapters, for next to nothing.

First question

[fluffernutter]

My first question is, how will I get a cheap compact $20 USB hub to plug into my Mac so I don't get affected by this nonsense?

Re:First question

[Jarik C-Bol]

https://www.amazon.com/Adapter...

5$.

Re:First question

[friedmud]

In addition to the other answers... Monoprice has a great selection of USB-C "hubs" that sport all kinds of other connections: http://www.monoprice.com/searc...

Re:First question

[fluffernutter]

I thought you had to use 'Apple approved' dongles with Apples.

Re: First question

[friedmud]

Nope.

What's Next?

[chipschap]

What will Apple remove next? The keyboard and the screen?

Maybe they can just remove everything. Now that would be a MacBook "Air".

Re:What's Next?

[AHuxley]

A nice white VR headset with prescription lens support. Send it back to Apple when the lens needs changing.

Re:What's Next?

[friedmud]

The screen will be removed soon... and replaced by contact lenses: http://appleinsider.com/articl...

Apple ruining your fantasies again.

[Anonymous Coward]

The fantasy is a Kaby lake macBook pro with i7 octo core processor 32GB of ram and 2TB SSD with headphone jack, USB and thunderbolt ports and Ethernet jack. But instead you will get a haswell Macbook pro i3 dual core with 8gb ram 256GB 5400rpm hard drive with no headphone jack no USB ports and having to pay $179 per port adapters to the single propritery port included which can't be used while charging.

Meanwhile Tim Cook laughs all the way to the bank.

Meh? It's a trend

[mschuyler]

HP Spectre (ultra thin) has only Type C now. I haven't found it to be a problem. Indeed, a lot of the newer USB drives have both ports so they make good transfer devices. Push the slider one way for an older USB, or the other way and out pops a Type C.

No more USB

[darkain]

Wait, no more USB ports!? Oh wait, no, there it is. It has USB-C. This isn't the "removal" of USB like almost all of the text is trying to portray, this is merely the change from one style of USB port to another. This is absolutely a non-issue. It has been known all along that USB-C was designed from the get-go to be a more universal port, offering charging for laptops too. AND, there is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from using a USB-C to USB-A/B/Mini/Micro/Male/Female cable to plug in literally every single existing USB device into this port. Need more ports? Just get a USB-C to "standard" USB 3.0 HUB.

Re:No more USB

[friedmud]

USB-C to USB-A adapters are ~$5 on Amazon. Try again.

I'm glad to see this

[amRadioHed]

I'm glad to see this. No, I'm not going to buy one of their laptops, but it will help push adoption of USB-C the way the original iMac helped make USB commonplace.

Thank god

[gander666]

It was time for a refresh, and hearing the rumors of the batshittery they were likely to do with the keyboard, and the inane OLED strip of softkeys, and I made the decision to just jump into a well configured 13" MBPr. Now that is looking like a prescient decision. I like the two thunderbolt ports, the two USB3 ports, and the SD card port. It is plenty thin enough, and I get a good 9 hours of normal usage out of it.

I get the lifecycle, and the staleness of the current MBP line, and their stretching refresh cycles, but I am glad I jumped when I did.

It is still better than the Lenovo T450 I just got for work (what a f'd up trackpad, and absolutely the worst laptop keyboard I have had in a long long time.

Re:Thank god

[93 Escort Wagon]

I did what you did, and for the exact same reasons, with regards to the current MacBook Pro... except I talked my boss into buying it for me.

I know all the fanbois over at MacRumors have been whining about Skylake not being in the thing, but I don't think I've had a computer where processor speed was a limiting factor for at least a decade.

Sweet!

[sootman]

"Hello again" can only mean one thing -- they're bringing back the SCSI port!!!!!11 Or maybe the floppy drive. Either way -- STOKED. :D :D :D

Re:Sweet!

[93 Escort Wagon]

they're bringing back the SCSI port!!!!!11

Good thing I held onto all those terminators!

Re:Sweet!

[darkjedi521]

As Arnold said, they'll be back

SubjectIsSubject

[p0p0]

Old-School USB Ports

USB 3.0 came out in 2009. Not really old-school, even if the port design is older.

Funny enough while looking that up I found this:
"Using USB 3 devices on Mac computers" https://support.apple.com/en-c...

I assume they'll delete this page soon. Not like Apple cares about previous generations anyway.

Re:So, no more usb mouse?

[fluffernutter]

Can I help him? Maybe his house, like my house, has 10 USB mouse devices lying around? It sucks pretty hard having to go out and buy a new expensive mouse when you already have equipment accumulated that SHOULD be adequate, and IS adequate with everyone else.

Re:So, no more usb mouse?

[kuzb]

The solution seems simple to me. Stop giving Apple your money. There's nothing revolutionary about macs except the ways they extort you in to paying more after the fact.

Re:Apple just hasn't been the same...

[kuzb]

Actually Apple has been exactly the same since Steve left. That's the problem. They're out of good ideas and now they're trying to do gimmicky stuff to keep the gravy train rolling.

Re:Not happy at all for a "Pro" laptop from Apple.

[Yaztromo]

Go shop for a new inkjet printer and tell me how many have USB-C connections on them vs. traditional USB right now.

I think you chose a poor example. Most printers that I'm aware of feature a USB Type-B connector on them, and don't come with any sort of cable.

USB Type-C is just a new USB connector. It's still signal compatible with existing USB devices. As virtually all inkjet printers don't come with a cable, you just ensure you buy a USB Type C to USB Type B cable to go with your printer, the same way you'd need to buy a USB Type C to USB Type A cable.

Yaz

WTF? Removing shit people use isn't design...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's being an ass.

No built-in Blu-ray for Mac users... no, better... no optical drives! Not even in the professional models.

Touchscreen is silly for computers... seems Windows users like it lots... we'll give Mac users a little bit, a touch bar... yeah, that's it.

Look at that guy over there, he's using a flash drive... how silly... he should be using the cloud... we'll make him use the cloud. What's that? He doesn't live in Cupertino with a fiber to the home type connection? Well, fuck him. He should learn to.

Dear Apple,

I'm looking to upgrade from my MacBook Pro in the next year. I want a touchscreen. I want USB ports that work with my flash drives.

It looks like I'm going to go with Windows. I'll drag my extended family along, reversing my pushing the Mac for the last 20 or so years.

I'll have to swallow my pride in the process, but you know what I call that?

Courage.

Very Un-Professional

[galen]

As a professional software engineer, I have never looked at the side of my MacBook Pro and wished it had fewer ways for me to connect something. Never have I complained about a few millimeters lost to an rarely used SD card slot or Firewire port. I know that eventually a customer is going to hand me an SD card or old external hard drive and I'll be thankful I can just plug in and have it work. "Professional" machines have to be able to do anything when needed. If Apple removes _THE_MOST_USED_ port for connecting miscellaneous peripherals then these machines no longer deserve the moniker "Professional". The only complaint I've ever had about USB ports is that I don't have enough! (And don't get me started on never-there-when-you-need-them dongles and adapters.)

Re:Very Un-Professional

[garote]

You call yourself a pro, and you can't keep track of a dongle? :D

Re:Very Un-Professional

[galen]

I've got decades of F'ing adapters cluttering up the place. I could probably produce a handful of SCSI-Parallel adapters and old TokenRing terminators if you wanted them. I don't need another dozen USB adapters in desk drawers and bag pockets.

Re:This isn't innovation Apple - you jumped the sh

[Jarik C-Bol]

exactly, and they cost about what a USB to PS/2 adapter cost (the keyboard adapter), and i've seen those included with TONS of aftermarket USB keyboards (to the point that I have half a dozen or so in my 'parts' bin). Honestly, most vendors will just start including an adapter in the box, pass the (mild) cost on to the customer, and build USB-C items.

Re:Big money in dongles

[Jarik C-Bol]

huge markups? I guess if the cost to the consumer is 2.49$ (two pack on amazon for 4.99$), and the cost to manufacture is probably 10 cents, (wild ass guess) then yeah, sure, huge markups.

on the other hand, most people spend more money than that daily on cable TV channels they never watch, so whatever.

Re:So, no more usb mouse?

[I4ko]

That is a good reason, indeed, I was merely pointing out that you don't HAVE TO use a usb mouse on a Mac. Their USB ports, even when they had them were too few anyway, to use one for a mouse is waste one could rarely afford.

Apple

[Sir Lurkalot]

Fuck Apple.

Re:So, no more usb mouse?

[unixisc]

You are forgetting that people might want to use their Bluetooth connection for other things, such as speakers, iPhone, iPad, printer, et al. Since Bluetooth is not a multiplexed protocol, one can only connect one of those things at any given time. Which is why it is such a bad idea

Seriously, the whole purpose of USB was to break the serial port limitation on PCs, and allow a computer to connect (theoretically) up to 127 devices to it. Granted, you won't need 127 devices, but 4 ports ought to be a minimum. As it is, I use a USB mouse, a printer, a USB drive and often use it to charge my phones. That alone eats up all the 4 ports. Granted, one could get around this limitation by using a USB hub in conjunction w/ the Mac. But a Mac is not an iPad, so just b'cos iPads have been doing fine w/o them doesn't mean that the Mac too can do without!

re: inkjet printers

[King_TJ]

Yeah, good point.... I admit I used a bad example with the printers. To be honest though, it's been quite a while since I bought one. I still own and use several older ones here, and in at least one of those cases, it actually did include a USB cable with it. But sure, the cost of a cable is relatively minimal and if they're going to make you buy it separately anyway -- no big deal to go with a USB-C type.

But flash drives are going to be a problem, as are plenty of specialty cables. (EG. I have a USB to OBDII programming cable that's needed to download custom tunes to one of my cars.) I guess you can use any of this stuff with USB-C to USB adapters or a hub that converts the connection -- but again, that's extra stuff you have to carry with you on a laptop, so not really an attractive option.

USB-C "dock" is a disaster

[Radical Moderate]

Just look at the reviews on Apple's site, people hate it. Honestly, this is ridiculous. I have an 11-inch Air that has 2 usb, mag-safe, and mini-display port. If they can fit those ports on this machine, how hard can it be on 12-15 inch models? What's the benefit?

Re:USB-C "dock" is a disaster

[garote]

You're probably seeing selection bias in those reviews.

Here's an alternate perspective: I owned a series of MacBook Airs for seven years. Earlier this year I got tired of not having a retina-class display and bought the MacBook, and one USBC-USB dongle. Eight months later I take stock, and wow, there is NO WAY I would go back to the Air. This laptop is quiet, decently fast, has a fine display, and is so much lighter than the Air that the Air now feels like a cement block and I can't believe I ever believed it was light. I _love_ this laptop. I like the keyboard more than the one on the Air now - I can use it with a lighter touch and that helps me type faster.

Yes, it's true I gave up the built-in USB port. But that's what the dongle is for. The SDXC slot is an annoying loss as well - now I either have to tether my SLR camera directly, or carry a reader dongle. But honestly, that hassle is minor, compared to the savings in weight. This thing weighs A THIRD LESS than the Air. An entire pound less. Get one and use it for a while and you'll be shocked at the difference that makes.

Re:USB-C "dock" is a disaster

[Radical Moderate]

Good points, I'll have to check them out. Not that I'll be buying another laptop anytime soon.

but..but..

[e432776]

are they eliminating the antiquated and horrible 3.5mm analogue audio jack? That's all I need to know about. And whether I will need a new USB-C headset to go with my new lightning one.

Re: inkjet printers

[friedmud]

Flash drives aren't a problem either... plenty of USB-C flash drives for cheap on Amazon... many of them also sport dual connectors (USB-C and USB-A).

Also: "Flash Drives" are soooo 2000's of you... just use Dropbox... ;-)

Re:USB connector is awful

[aaarrrgggh]

I agree several thousand-fold. Unfortunately, it didn't and is now pervasive. People have electrical outlets with them built in... There is something to be said for a bad, yet pervasive standard.

Re:Not happy at all for a "Pro" laptop from Apple.

[aaarrrgggh]

Any time I am using my laptop for work, I need Ethernet, HDMI, 2xUSB-A, and power. I lived with the compromise with the Air by having Ethernet dongles everywhere and not using it as my primary workstation in the office-- so I could have the portability. If this is where Apple is going, the pay really don't have a product for me anymore. I don't want to travel with a dock that needs an external power brick.

Re:Not happy at all for a "Pro" laptop from Apple.

[garote]

Inductive charging is horribly inefficient and it would be a huge pain to have to lug your six-foot-radius inductive charging transmitter around with you. So that's out.

Magsafe went away on the Macbook because the designers did a bunch of testing and realized that the USBC connector yanks out of the socket almost as easily, unless pulled at an angle, and in that case, the Macbook is light enough that it tends to pivot before it gains enough momentum to fall off a desk. That and, everything in the Macbook is solid-state. The risk of damage from tripping over a cord is less, while the risk of damage from dropping it at standing-height was never addressed by magsafe in the first place.

What remains to be seen is, will they refine the design of USB enough that the extra weight of a Pro machine doesn't interfere with cable detachment, and, will they be able to charge a Pro-level battery acceptably fast enough by the USB quick-charge standard. If one or both of those questions come out "no", then you'll be seeing a magsafe connector, or dongle, on your new Macbook Pro.

Your history lesson about Apple removing the floppy drive is just a little bit revisionist. All those devices you mention that eclipsed the 3.5-inch drive really only became usable once the USB standard got entrenched, and the iMac was one of the biggest reasons for that. Remember when ZipDrives needed a special driver, and ran off the parallel port? Or off the SCSI port? Same with SyQuest drives. They were SCSI- or IDE-only for a very long time. What was killing the floppy before the iMac was all those ZipDrives and SyQuests AND the rise of dirt-cheap home and small business LAN hardware, and the ever-cheapening cost of CDs and CDRs. Ubiquitous USB came later. Let's not put the historical cart before the horse ;)

But anyhoo... Thunderbolt. I'm glad you mentioned that. There's some good news on that front: https://www.cnet.com/news/thun...

Don't think of the new MacBook Pro as having a bunch of small-size USB ports, think of it as having a bunch of Thunderbolt 3 ports. That's one port for supplying data in and out, at massive speeds, including multiple displays, and it's daisy-chainable, and it supplies power!! Of course Apple is all over this! What else would they be doing?

That said, if they eliminate the headphone jack, I'm going to have to drive down to Cupertino and slap some people around.

Logitech and no USB-C dongles

[Cronq]

And Logitech still doesn't make USB-C type Unifying dongles :-( And using adapter for such thing like a tiny usb dongle is simply stupid idea (because such dongle is meant to be plugged in into laptop and (almost) never taken out).

New Brain Interface

[rbrander]

Well, who needs USB when the device will soon be revealed to have an internal brain interface chip.

Of course, you will need a chip implanted in your own skull to connect. And, incidentally, it will only connect to Apple and also, for medical reasons, it will be impossible to install anybody else's brain interface chips, meaning you will then be committed to Apple for life, and only Apple.

This will not constitute a significant negative to their hardcore base.

Re:Not happy at all for a "Pro" laptop from Apple.

[jabuzz]

Why on gods earth to people still buy printers that need to be plugged in to a computer? Of all the peripherals that you can get for computers the printer is absolutely the one that should be networked. The idea of plugging a printer into a laptop is so retarded it beggars belief. Any such printer is a heap of junk that needs consigning to the trash at the first available opportunity.

I would note that wireless printers are the next stupidest thing imaginable, wire it up to your router for god sake or wireless access point or whatever.

OK, but only one Type C?

[drinkypoo]

I get removing all the legacy ports. They're not as good! But FFS, only one Type C? That's not right. At minimum, there should be one on each side. On a "pro" laptop, I'd like to see two of them on each side. They're small enough.

Less Is More???

[organgtool]

You know a company is going downward when the headlines focus more on the features they're removing from their products rather than the new features they're providing.

Re:So, no more usb mouse?

[unixisc]

USB Type C is standard as far as the USB 3.0 definition goes, but it's not common in the market. Like if you get an USB stick of any density, you will see that it has a Type A plug to go into any Type A socket, which is what you normally get w/ any laptop. If your MacBook only has a Type C socket, then it forces you to buy an extra hub. While the hub itself may be cheap, you are now forced to carry 2 portable devices instead of 1. And instead of plugging the UBS stick directly into your MacBook, as you could do previously, you're now forced to use a hub. And sometimes, some systems don't recognize devices not connected to the direct USB ports: like if you had a USB mouse, you'd have to connect it to the laptop port, not to a hub connected to the laptop

Yeah, ultimately, we may see more and more devices come w/ Type C plugs and slots, but we're not there right now, so this is somewhat disruptive

Re:On it's way out

[macs4all]

My computer is so new and cutting edge, I've removed the Apple! They're on their way out!

Apple: Proudly going out of business for over 40 years!

USB soon disappear?

[k6mfw]

I'm wondering because I've heard much of military (not sure if entire DoD) prohibits USB sticks. Also many companies warn their employees to not insert USB sticks into company computers including personal because don't know if the stick contains bugs. Maybe get rid of USB and be done with that problem. What bugs me are many systems not on the internet and also optical media is being phased out.

Yes, the old story of a bank that had security seminar of scammers that dump USB sticks in parking lots, tempting employees to pick them up and insert into computers. Then the next day bank IT security people do a test by dumping sticks in parking lots, and find that half the seminar attendees took and inserted the stick into their computers!

Re:USB soon disappear?

[mjwx]

I'm wondering because I've heard much of military (not sure if entire DoD) prohibits USB sticks. Also many companies warn their employees to not insert USB sticks into company computers including personal because don't know if the stick contains bugs. Maybe get rid of USB and be done with that problem. What bugs me are many systems not on the internet and also optical media is being phased out.

Yes, the old story of a bank that had security seminar of scammers that dump USB sticks in parking lots, tempting employees to pick them up and insert into computers. Then the next day bank IT security people do a test by dumping sticks in parking lots, and find that half the seminar attendees took and inserted the stick into their computers!

USB will not disappear unless something better replaces it.

So far that's nothing. Most businesses I know of still use USB for portable storage. This is because you can have many types of storage with USB from high capacity hard disks to small flash drives so cheap they're almost disposable to adaptors for every other kind of storage.

And USB is not just for storage, try finding a wired KB or Mouse that isn't USB, half the Bluetooth peripherals use a USB dongle. Every phone comes with a USB cable for charging, printers, cameras and more, the lot use USB because USB is everywhere. USB headphones are more popular than ever.

Very few businesses restrict USB, most of them have very specific reasons for doing so (I.E. DOD/MOD or PCI/PII requirements). The oft quoted "USB sticks in the parking lot" hasn't been a credible threat for years as OS's no longer use autorun.

So if USB is soon to die... What is going to replace it? I've just bought a new gaming PC a few months back, heaps of USB ports but not much of anything else. I cant even remember if it comes with PS2,

Re:So, no more usb mouse?

[macs4all]

Or need to carry around another stupid converter for every single device I might want to use?

Seriously, how many is that? I would guess that it is at most 2 or 3. Whoop-de-doo. If it bothers you that much, get a USB-C hub. They're way small enough to fit in a computer bag or backpack these days, and are actually more convenient, since you don't have to have a bunch of cables jammed-up on the side of the laptop.

Re:So, no more usb mouse?

[macs4all]

The solution seems simple to me. Stop giving Apple your money. There's nothing revolutionary about macs except the ways they extort you in to paying more after the fact.

So sez the person who hasn't spent two seconds actually using a Mac since 1987.

Re:So, no more usb mouse?

[macs4all]

That is a good reason, indeed, I was merely pointing out that you don't HAVE TO use a usb mouse on a Mac. Their USB ports, even when they had them were too few anyway, to use one for a mouse is waste one could rarely afford.

Why would you use a mouse with a Mac laptop anyway? Their trackpads are already light-years ahead of any stupid mouse or trackball.

Re:Not happy at all for a "Pro" laptop from Apple.

[cthulhu11]

Part of the reason for Thunderbolt not really taking off is the extreme cost of anything using it.

Re:So, no more usb mouse?

[kuzb]

I have a macbook air. Thanks for asking. Macs aren't very good. My first macbook will be my last.

Re:So, no more usb mouse?

[macs4all]

I have a macbook air. Thanks for asking. Macs aren't very good. My first macbook will be my last.

Sorry for your negative impression. What exactly were you expecting that you feel wasn't fulfilled with that bottom-of-the-line Mac?

Re:So, no more usb mouse?

[macs4all]

Can I help him? Maybe his house, like my house, has 10 USB mouse devices lying around? It sucks pretty hard having to go out and buy a new expensive mouse when you already have equipment accumulated that SHOULD be adequate, and IS adequate with everyone else.

What am I missing here?

Why can't the OP use a bog-standard USB mouse with a Mac? I certainly have, many times.

Re:So, no more usb mouse?

[kuzb]

The fact that it overheats and throttles all the time even though I've had it apart and nothing is obstructing the ventilation. The piss poor battery life. The OS is ok, but overrated. For the amount I paid for it I expected much better. I'll never go that road again. Apple laptops may be pretty but that's all they are.

Re:So, no more usb mouse?

[TheFakeTimCook]

The fact that it overheats and throttles all the time even though I've had it apart and nothing is obstructing the ventilation. The piss poor battery life. The OS is ok, but overrated. For the amount I paid for it I expected much better. I'll never go that road again. Apple laptops may be pretty but that's all they are.

Describe what you are doing (encoding video, playing games, etc) that is causing it to "overheat and throttle" all the time.

Can you quantify "piss-poor" a little better?

"Overrated" is a completely subjective statement. Can you be more specific?

Did you ever take it to Apple while under warranty to address the overheating/battery-life concerns?

Re:So, no more usb mouse?

[kuzb]

Describe what you are doing (encoding video, playing games, etc) that is causing it to "overheat and throttle" all the time.

General use. You don't even need to be doing anything special with it to start it's micro-stutter routine.

Can you quantify "piss-poor" a little better?

2 hours. Maybe 2.5 if I crank the brightness way down.

"Overrated" is a completely subjective statement. Can you be more specific?

It's not significantly better or worse at performing general tasks, but it's touted as being significantly better at all tasks. It's overrated.

Did you ever take it to Apple while under warranty to address the overheating/battery-life concerns?

They can't do anything with it because it's a defect in the 2nd generation airs. Apple didn't give two shits though, they already had people's money. No fix was ever issued for those affected. I will never spend that kind of money on Apple's trash again.