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Elon Musk: Tesla's Solar Roof Will Cost Less Than a Traditional Roof (bloomberg.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: After Tesla shareholders approved the acquisition of SolarCity, the new company is now an unequivocal sun-to-vehicle energy firm. And Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk didn't take long to make his first big announcement as head of this new enterprise. Minutes after shareholders approved the deal -- about 85 percent of them voted yes -- Musk told the crowd that he had just returned from a meeting with his new solar engineering team. Tesla's new solar roof product, he proclaimed, will actually cost less to manufacture and install than a traditional roof -- even before savings from the power bill. "Electricity," Musk said, "is just a bonus." If Musk's claims prove true, this could be a real turning point in the evolution of solar power. The rooftop shingles he unveiled just a few weeks ago are something to behold: They're made of textured glass and are virtually indistinguishable from high-end roofing products. They also transform light into power for your home and your electric car. "So the basic proposition will be: Would you like a roof that looks better than a normal roof, lasts twice as long, costs less and -- by the way -- generates electricity?" Musk said. "Why would you get anything else?" Much of the cost savings Musk is anticipating comes from shipping the materials. Traditional roofing materials are brittle, heavy, and bulky. Shipping costs are high, as is the quantity lost to breakage. The new tempered-glass roof tiles, engineered in Tesla's new automotive and solar glass division, weigh as little as a fifth of current products and are considerably easier to ship, Musk said.
If Musk is correct then... Great! Sign me up!
I think I'll wait for a variety of third party reviews before I get too eager though. Of course Musk is going to cheer his own product, but lets see if experts agree with him and if the price really is lower when it really hits the market.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
I have a hard time believing that these are going to be less breakable than asphalt shingles. Less weight, that I might believe. I wonder if the cost comparison is only for "high end" roofing material or for the most common types: asphalt shingle, corrugated tin, etc.
Including the PV cells? Excluding the generated electricity benefit? Color me suspicious. I'd really like to see that. Mass-produced conventional solar panels (just the hardware on pallets) are still about twice as expensive as my most recent roof (including installation), per unit of area.
Ezekiel 23:20
I keep forgetting that there are places in the world that aren't California. Out there, "traditional roofing materials" are asphalt shingles, or sometimes cedar shakes, neither of which is bulky or brittle.
See that "Preview" button?
The cost of the roof itself is NOT the total cost. Does it require special installation, that would push up the labor costs? How much do the electronics for converting and storing the electricity cost? I love the idea of geothermal energy, but we did not get it when we built our house because, after installation, the payback would take some 30 years or more.
...10 times more expensive to buy for the end users.
When the solar cells dropped in price from the hefty China manufacturing of these, people in Sweden tried to purchase a lot of these, then a heftyn anti-dumping 60% import tax "to protect other producers of panels" where quickly introduced to stop this "green madness", hah...
But good on him for trying, now if the governments of the worlds would like to dance to that tune, we'd all be in the green, but I can pretty much promise you, the ones earning $$$ on something else won't have it!
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
If this is true, then there is something seriously fucked up in the roofing manufacturing and installation industry today. You should be able to manufacture and install durable, impermeable sheets of $SOMETHING for less cost than building, installing, wiring, and maintaining high tech solar panels.
The only thing I can think of that might traditional roofing materials more expensive than solar panels would be things done to them for aesthetics.
I didn't read TFA, did it discuss durability? If it's cheaper to install but only lasts 5 years, forget it.
Calm down there Mr. Free Bitcoin. If you think Musk "got lucky" by investing in PayPal, "got lucky" again when starting Tesla at just the right time, "got lucky" again by pushing the private space sector again at just the right time, and "got lucky" by building in Solar City to vertically integrate two of his biggest (and most environmentally impactful) industries, then I suppose he is just an insanely lucky man. Taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture, though, one might call him a visionary. Yes, having the right people is critical. Steve Jobs was neither a hardware nor software engineer, he was a visionary.
If they can deliver, I happen to be in the 1-3 year market for a new roof. If it really is price competitive, I might actually give it a try. However, I'm guessing it will be rolled out geographically and will be hard to get for a few years, even when they do finally make it available, so I don't hold out much hope.
Somehow I doubt he's comparing it to asphalt shingles. He's comparing it to an equivalent-looking high end roof such as tiles, etc. That might be common in California or the sun belt, but it's certainly not common up here. You can get a new asphalt shingle roof for $3000 to $8000 depending on square footage and whether or not you're going to rip off the existing roof (you should). You're going to put a solar roof on for less? Maybe, but we'll see.
It's bitztream, the autism-hating, custom EpiPen-hatin, Musk-hating Slashdot troll!
If it is a little cheaper then slate then it is not saying much. If it is the same as asphalt then where do I sign.
Ya, and the Hyperloop will be faster and cheaper than flying if no regulations or security are imposed.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
I'd like to see solar powered Hyperloops operating on mars one day!
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Now, if Tesla could cover these panels with that hydrophobic nano coating and could test the effectiveness of the coatings under tree sap, volcanic ash, sand storm and attack of the killer autumn leafs, hail and even heavy snow with an operating temperature range of -60C to 80C, I'd be impressed.
....that hail storm rolls through.
Then you get to replace a lot of glass panels.
Tesla's new solar roof product, he proclaimed, will actually cost less to manufacture and install than a traditional roof -- even before savings from the power bill.
Unlikely that it will be cheaper than an asphalt shingle roof. Not so surprising that it might be cheaper than an (expensive) slate or similar high end tile.
They're made of textured glass and are virtually indistinguishable from high-end roofing products
Umm, no. They are not "indistinguishable" from high end roofing products but they are reminiscent of them and appear to be rather attractive looking on their own merits.
The upfront costs are nearly triple to quadruple that of a typical roof. It drops in price when you consider the enegery savings over time, of the house mortgage.
Nice! If his company just does a mediocre job and half of these predictions are true, then that's still a major change and will have huge changes for the entire electrical grid across the US (and probably other countries as well).
Make no mistake - I would like to have these. I've been predicting them for the last 5 years. Every time someone asks me if I am going to get solar panels I have been telling them, "no, I am going to wait for the day (coming soon) when roofing materials will just be made with solar in them and you don't have to put up ugly, leak inducing panels on your roof." Looks like that day is soon. Although with the high cost - probably 20 years out before it is affordable compared to an everyday person's roof budget. We have those cement "tiles" now so weight won't be a problem at all, but the price will be pretty high to start (since the comparison they offer is to those super expensive slate roofs).
Your concerns about tornadoes and cold weather and snow loading - these are things off the top of your head that you thought of within 5 minutes of skimming the article. I'm pretty certain the engineers - who spend their entire days working on this project - have thought of all of this.
That being said though, I'm with you. I would wait for a third party review as well. Let's get some objective pricing and usage data before we get too happy.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Why do people in Texas put on a new roof twice a year?? People in London, UK, replace a roof maybe once every thirty years, or longer.
Can you mount a satellite dish on them?
rain fade is still better then comcrap over compressed tv with the lowest number of HD channels of any major system.
This seems like a no-brainer, but it also seems silly to put these on north-facing or shaded roofs. It would be nice if there were cheaper, non-PV versions to cover the portions of my roof that aren't going to generate appreciable power. A consistent appearance in the roof, but only pay for the PV where it makes sense.
I guess maybe having two different versions would potentially make both more expensive.
"Open the pod by doors, Hal" > "I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave" sudo "Open the pod bay doors, Hal" > alright
A single clay roof tile costs the equivalent of $0.5 where I live. It's good for half a century, no problem.
I have 5 places that produce clay building bricks and clay roof tiles in a radius of 150 km to choose from.
Transportation is cheap, and even if some tiles/bricks break in transport, they're so cheap that... well, nobody cares if there's a 1% loss in material.
Probably because they built their houses out matchwood. Perfect to be blown down in a hurricane or tornado. You know all those news reports of tornado hit towns with only the chimneys still standing? You'd think that might be a clue as to what to build the whole building out of , but nope...
Are we headed for future where you lease your roof even if you own the house?
Or, you could use regular solar panels, which are a solved problem.
oh don't hate. i hear the envy in your written words. wishing you came up with the idea first? can't hate the dude, he has ambition for days, and has done more in his lifetime than most men.
" Tesla's Solar Roof Will Cost Less Than a Traditional Roof"
Traditional *expensive* roofs.
Which is fine, don't get me wrong, but if you're expecting this to compete with a $3000 re-roof using asphalt, not going to happen. If you do have a home with something more expensive, then the issue there is that they do tend to last longer and won't be a target for replacement as often.
Musk (as in, anal scent gland) has never once told the truth. Every statement he makes is followed up with half a page of fine print disclaimers.
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What the fuck are you talking about??
The Earth absorbs 3.85 million exajoules of energy from the sun annually.
All human energy consumption combined is well under 1,000 exajoules.
So why did you say that "There is not enough insolation (sunlight striking the Earth) to power the current energy needs."? Seriously -- it is completely beyond me what you could have meant by that statement.
Sounds like Texas is in need of people that know how to build a roof that isn't a piece of shit.
Or, you're lying. I think that's more likely.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
"There is not enough insolation (sunlight striking the Earth) to power the current energy needs"
Oh fuck, kill yourself moron.
Ah, one of those Thorium cocksmokers. GTFO & FOAD
There is not enough insolation (sunlight striking the Earth) to power the current energy needs.
Where do you get ideas like this from? It's trivially untrue.
Solar constant is >1kW/m^2.
That's 1GW/km^2
Egypt alone is 1Mkm^2.
So we're talking about 1000TW peak generating capacity
Earths total energy consumption is the order of a hundred thousand TWh/year. Covering Egypt in solar panels would be able to generate that much energy in a few months with current technology, certainly less than a year.
If I remember my numbers correctly there's around 100km/degree * 360 degress * 100 km/degree * 60 degrees ~ 216 Egypts (including ocean) within 30 degrees of the equator. We're not even close to using 1% of the total solar energy available.
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.
Maybe in your trailer park.
Copyright (c) 1990 - 2014 Dice. All rights reserved. Use of this comment is subject to certain Terms and Conditions.
So Musk's roof will be cheaper than a lot of upscale roofs, plus it will make free electricity for you.
How are the Global Warming deniers going to turn this into a horrible thing that people should avoid?
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Maybe he means putting a new coat of paint on his trailer?
25 years to de-carbonize the Global Economy and we are wasting resources on rooftop panels. UGH
It's because in Texas, registered gun owners (i.e. everyone over 12) are required twice a year to go on a Yosemite Sam style shooting spree at inanimate objects. In addition to roofs, they also frequently replace windows, appliances, and animal heads mounted on walls.
What makes entepreneurs successful is not luck, but taking advantage of it when it presents itself.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Because like the rest of their houses they are generally not built to last. They use asphalt shingles which is basically cut up flat roofing material. Something that would only be considered for a shed or garage in Europe.
It's probably a got something to do with the rapid build out of America during colonization. Remember ~40% of housing in the UK was built before the second world war and generally we expect the house we live in to be there long after we are dead and buried which as far as I can make out is not the case in the USA. We go for traditional brick built will stand a couple hundred years at least houses.
By "traditional" I think he means "artisinal", not "standard". Slate and tile are certainly not standard roof materials these days. I'm also skeptical that these could last as long as slate - the slate on my house is 80 years old and mostly going strong.
Having said that, if I were in a suitable location and needed a new roof, I'd give these the old cost / benefit analysis.
This is a scam. To work as an editor on a site for tech news surely some technical knowledge is required. Even my aging mother knows that zapping the monkey doesn't really mean you get a million dollars.
I suppose I can't expect much critical thinking, common sense, or hell, basic brain stem function from an avowed Democrat. BeauHD - bringing Slashdot scams your grandma is savvy enough to avoid and Trump hit pieces. I guess it beats jacking it to Hillary droning "stronger together" or whatever that crooked old bitch was on about.
What they mean to say by cheaper is that solar tiles that mimic the look of high end roofing material will be cheaper than the real thing.
Solar power have nothing to do with it. They could make the tiles without the PV cells and it will be even cheaper. But comparing them with other premium materials is like comparing plastic with leather.
He loves to ignore the fact that the infrastructure fir his products doesn't exist outside of Silicon Valley, and idn't likely to anytime soon. Whatever, dude.
How are the Global Warming deniers going to turn this into a horrible thing that people should avoid?
Easy: It takes away jobs from hard working coal miners and oil workers. Then they will follow up with something along the lines of "put a GLASS roof on my house? What a stupid idea". Then there will be some idiotic populist argument about baseload power and how solar hurts our power companies by increasing costs to those who can't afford these expensive roofs.
All shitty and stupid arguments but they each make for a nice sound bite.
Take a look at this wikipedia page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Pay attention to the picture of the earth with some little black dots on it. That area of the dots is enough to meet the worlds 18TW total energy needs from solar.
The idea that there is not enough solar energy to meet the worlds total energy needs is just ignorant.
And somehow I doubt these solar tiles are going to sell for $1 a pop or anywhere close. Modern roof tiles only have to be secured with a single nail so it's hard to see how they're easy to fit unless they come on prefabricated panels or something and only the edges and joins need finishing. Perhaps that is the case, but if they're individually put in place then I don't see them being cheaper that way either because someone has to wire them all up in rows.
It's not our fault if your third-world country still uses coal and gas to produce electricity.
Because thunderstorms in Texas often include torrential rain, 60+mph winds and golf ball or larger sized hail. Not to mention 100+ degree temperatures for months at a time followed by freezing temperatures during the winter. Tornadoes and microbursts are not uncommon either.
There are more homes in this country that are poorly positioned for solar power than you might expect. Their roofs might be aligned poorly for their latitude to maximize solar power generation, they may have cover from other sources (trees, other buildings, etc), they may be in a place that is generally too cloudy or has too few daylight hours, or other factors as well. If you sell these roof tiles as being less expensive and more durable, people will buy them even if they (buyers) cannot expect to generate a useful amount of power from them.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Would a roof trap excessive heat, thereby heating up the car (especially in summer)? Why not put that solar surface on the hood, where it can get connected directly to the underlying engine, and power certain less energy intensive parts of it? Is it all just about the surface area?
25 years to de-carbonize the Global Economy and we are wasting resources on rooftop panels.
What's your brilliant idea? What have you done that would do more to reduce the need for fossil fuels? Come on Mr. Snarky McCynic, dazzle us with your brilliant and feasible plan.
Frankly I can't think of a better way to reduce the need for carbon based fuels than to put solar panels and batteries on/in every building possible and switch to primarily electric cars. It's not the only think we can or should do but it's a vital piece of the puzzle.
You don't see that many large glass surfaces around for a pretty good reason...
You mean except for almost every window on every house and car made? [sarcasm] Yeah barely any glass out there. Who would use glass? [/sarcasm]
We,people 're-roof in London about once a century,the only roof that should need replacing after only 30 years is an old tech,badly fitted flat roof,a decent slate roof will easily last 100+ years,concrete tiles about 75+..I'm an ex roofer,and have worked with/on everything from really bad flat roofs through commons like slate/Kent peg/concrete/ceramic and thatch and did works for all of the major uk heritage organisations,so also worked on every class and style of listed building..
If they're so easy to ship, why does his company say "sorry, we don't operate in your zip code"? Well, that's a shame... could you, I don't know, maybe *ship some to me*? It's not like I live in Siberia, I'm a 10 minute drive from one of the larger cities in the US.
I'm already sold on the whole concept, I just really want them to let me buy their product.
Pound! Bang! Bin! Bash! is this a shell script or a Batman comic?
Ahem, you mean Oriented Strand Board (OSB) not plywood. Plywood is for boats and non-slab floors - In California, regular old Douglas Fir 2x4 and 2x6 studs, some larger beams for lintels, and OSB for shear walls. OSB for roof underlayment too.
True that the roof may cost less than a normal one, but the big costs come from the batteries that you will have to install to take advantage of it, and those actually cost quite a lot more.
I am actually kind of disappointed that Tesla is throwing their lot in with Solar City. Their sales people positively infest all of the Home Depots around here (Boston, MA). They are extremely pushy and act like you are the asshole for wanting to just shop instead of listen to their sales pitch. Any company that employs those kinds of sales tactics doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in me, and I plan to never do business with them. I was planning to consider a Tesla for my next car, but this deal is making me reconsider.
Probably merely hyperbole, but there's no doubt in my mind that tempered glass tiles are tougher than anything else in current use. I doubt the concerns over their longevity are reasonable. Also consider that they'll be easier to insure because of this.
Spoken like a true Trump supporter.
He says in the video that the goal is to "have an installed cost be less than the cost of a tradition roof plus electricity." That means he is taking the electricity savings into account to make it "cheaper".
The two news stories I have read, and this summary, claim that he said it would be cheaper before the savings in electricity. From the summary: "proclaimed, will actually cost less to manufacture and install than a traditional roof -- even before savings from the power bill."
Is there another statement that contradicts his presentation, or did the writers just misinterpret what he said?
Starting Tesla at the right time? When the price of gas fell through the floor?
In my current house, I don't think we paid anything for the wiring between the tiles. Now that I think of it, we might have even skipped the process altogether. So obviously I'm pretty excited that it can be done even more cheaply now.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
I live in Texas. It is rare, but it can happen. Basically the asphalt shingle roofs provide protection to the water barrier, which is a sheet of tar soaked felt under the shingles.
A wind storm can lift the shingles, which are fused by the heat to the tar paper. When that happens, it tears the paper and the water barrier is lost.
Hurricanes are a problem about every eight years, tornados are not enough of a problem to have encounters one after 40 years. But really, a good storm can lift the shingles on a roof, and some unlucky person probably did replace their roof twice in a year. If the heat isn't high enough to fuse the roof, the risk for damage is greater. In my area, there's no problem with heat, but we do have cool spells.
The Nazis, I mean "HOA" in my nieghborhood require garden sheds have exactly the same shingles as the homes. Not sure how practical it would be to wire up a standalone shed with solar panel shingles.
It'll be interesting when the first shingle gets dropped by the installer, slides down the roof, and shatters when it lands in my garden leaving an infinite number of pieces of glass.
Never seen an asphalt shingle do that.
It doesn't matter that they're cheaper to produce. All this will mean is greater profit margins for somebody in the chain.
As a consumer, if you're offered traditional tiles at £x per square metre or solar tiles that'll generate electricity at £(x+y) per square metre, the fact is that if 'y' isn't too great, you'll go with those.
Now if he could saturate the market, it may well end up being cheaper for the end user, but I'd lay odds on there's no way he'd manage to manufacture a fraction of the demand...
Now my roof is all shattered... Thanks, Trump
You see, Ivan, if home one big chimney..
Bricks are a poor choice for general construction. They're poor insulators. They're difficult to make leakproof. Brick chimneys in particular are vulnerable to earthquakes. Brick + mortar is worthless in tension.
Tornado-speed winds can develop pressures of 25 pounds per square foot to ten times that much. It you want a house that stands up to tornadoes, it has to be strong enough to withstand that pressure, not be torn off its foundation, and not be damaged by minor nuisances like flying trees and flying delivery vans.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Seriously,
The economic viability of residential solar rests 100% on fucking renters by forcing them to subsidize solar panels on rich people's houses. Net metering is straight up theft; you take from the grid without paying, and then force the power company to pass the costs of buying your electricity at a retail, fully burdened price, and pass that cost to the poor people who don't own and can't install solar panels.
To hell with net metering. I'm completely okay with making the power companies pay the same as the highest spot price they're paying for other power sources, but there's no justification, at all, for making poor people subsidize solar panels for homeowners.
What can you expect from a country that seems to be allergic to brick or concrete for houses and seems to build most of them out of cheap plywood.
The type of material used is determined by the price point of the dwelling in question. If you want to build a house out of brick you can do that but it's a lot more labor intensive and thus more expensive. Cheap houses are made from cheap materials no matter what country you are in. Expensive houses are usually made from pricier material no matter what country you are in.
and powering the hyper loop and putting us on Mars.
In short, its going to save the world from everything.
Can we please stop posting shit from Musk. He doesn't know shit. He got lucky before .boom and has been riding that ever sense. He gets some smart people around him to do the actual work, but he's still just an egotistical asshole who'll tell you anything to get your attention when he's not front and center.
We should probably just take all of Musk's lucky loot and redistribute it to people like you who really deserve it, right Bernie voter?
Oops, how did I "guess" that you're a Bernie voter? Amazing, I tell you!
Do you have ESP?
Are these solar tiles also installed so that there are no nooks and crannies for water to get into?
Did you give that question even a moment's thought? They are roof tiles and work exactly the same way every other roof tile works.
He isn't comparing this to standard asphalt shingles which are the majority of roofs installed nationwide. He is comparing them to ceramic shingles which may be the majority installed in certain areas of CA where he is.
Asphalt shingles don't have any issues with transportation breakage, and are not fragile in transport. Those were the issues he was sighting that showed lower costs. Asphalt shingles also run around a dollar a square foot. Installed with new underlayment runs about two dollars a square foot in my area. If he can hit an installed price of three dollars a square foot then his hype is warranted. My guess is his cost will be closer to seven to ten dollars a square foot.
Its not revolutionary when his solar roof is going to run $30k when a standard replacement is $3k.
A terra cotta roof tile costs here (Switzerland) around 1$ !! And you need ca 12 tiles per square meter.
There is absolutely no fucking way, that these fancy solar shingels can be cheaper.
The roof construction will be pretty much the same for roof tiles and solar shingels.
I think Elon is slowly losing it in his echo chamber. (Technological Singularity, Simulation Theory, Autopilot, solar shingle, Hyperloop)
I've been through a hailstorm with hail that was easily golf-ball sized. My roof (asphalt shngle) was a total loss, plus my cars all had major damage, including having to replace windshields.
With big enough hail stones it won't matter much what your roof is made of unless you live in a bunker. I'm sure these tiles are durable but they aren't armor plating.
All that said, I like the idea, and if Tesla is willing to warranty it against hail, I'll sign up./p?
That is what insurance is for. The insurance companies will take a good hard look at the product and if they aren't likely to result in higher costs than existing products then they'll treat them pretty much like they do traditional roofing products. No real need for Tesla to warranty them against hail unless the tiles have some special properties that make them impervious to most hail.
With his carnival barker skills, he survived that and has gone on to build an even larger Ponzi scheme. One has to sort of respect that level of skill - in much the same way one sort of has to respect Trump for his being able to scam around half the voters.
Uhhhh, how much glass is used for horizontal (or horizontal-ish) surfaces?
Quite a lot. Open up your refrigerator and chances are you'll see a rather large load bearing glass surface. Look at atriums of commercial buildings with glass roofs. Look at greenhouses. Glass table tops. Check out the sunroofs in cars. There are glass walkways.
Horizontal glass surfaces are all over the place if you actually bother to look for them.
These will present a pretty major hazard for firefighters doing roof ventilation operations. regular solar panels are bad enough from that perspective.
When we are all driving Tesla cars then I would believe Musk is a visionary. All I see now is fools parting with money and him using it to blow up perfectly good launch pads.
BTW I use PayPal because I am forced to, not because I have to. I try to avoid PayPal like the plague because there is nothing good about it. His vision was to take as much money from the early adopters of the internet as he could before the credit cards could provide a better product.
Around here they are producing McMansions out of MDF (yes, not even plywood most of the time!) with a thin plastic vapor barrier and then siding. The interiors get a sheetrock covering still, but these places will fall apart under any sort of moisture damage.
Thankfully our house and garage predate that lowered caliber of construction, but all the old houses are being buldozed to replace with a new family mcmansion for 3x the cost, and built as cheaply as possible. Yay for progress and 'first world' building techniques. Ha!
How about having to walk on your roof
to clear tree limbs and leaves.
Are suction cup boots provide
so you can safely walk on roof?
I find that astonishingly hard to believe.
Current asphalt shingles are an extraordinarily-optimized product for EVERY step of their life, including:
- manufacture
- transport (bulk)
- transport (to the site, and up to the difficult places where they'll be applied)
- application (so they perform their function properly)
- application (so they are SUPER easy to install)
- functional life in terms of damage from UV, kinetic, and thermal (plus AND minus) sources.
At the simplest level, no, there's not really a conceivable way that putting a WIRED anything on a rooftop is easier than slapping down 3 tab shingles and tock-tock-tock'ing with a nailgun, (That's not going to involve substantial cost/complexity ELSEWHERE, like prefabbing the entire roof to a single piece.)
Elon's a smart guy, and I get that "some paradigms need to be broken" but I tend to be suspicious whenever someone with basically no history in an industry shows up and says "You are all doing it wrong, I have all the answers!"...usually it means they don't REALLY comprehensively understand all the questions.
-Styopa
The goverment(s) just need now to invent a solar & wind tax.
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
I've seen what hail can do to tempered automotive glass. I've seen how much better asphalt and shake shingles handle that same hail.
But yeah, everybody forgets about all of us not living on a coast. The evidence for that is all the head scratching trying to figure out why Hillary didn't win and why it takes 5 hours to fly from New York to LA.
Reading comprehension much? I was not talking about interior surfaces, I was talking about exterior. I will assume that you are genuinely stupid instead of being a troll...
Do you see a lot of indoor atriums, greenhouses, sunroofs, etc or are you cherry picking to just be a jerk? You seem to be the one lacking in reading comprehension in addition to failing to understand anything about materials science. Glass does not intrinsically equal fragile. It's perfectly possible to design glass surfaces to be quite robust and take a substantial impact.
In case you still don't get the point, glass can literally be bullet proof if you want it to be. Who is the "genuinely stupid" one now?
Shingles, on the other hand, could have hail dropped from a very high distance indeed -- enough to reach terminal velocity. Where I live we had a severe hail storm a couple of months ago. A friend of mine is getting insurance to replace his entire roof.
And that is not a glass roof so what exactly is your point? No practical roofing material is going to be indestructible. Glass tiles can be just as durable as stone ones if not moreso. If you had a clue about materials science you would already know this.
I have an $800k home. Would love to see the piece of shit you live in
What is the cost of shipping a pallet of asphalt shingles compared to a comparable number of his solar panels?
Compared to tempered glass solar cells? Really? I can drop a pallet of roof tiles off the back of a delivery truck and have almost no damage.
Asphalt shingles are made all across the country, whereas these solar panels will be made in one central location, requiring most shingles to be transported half-way across the country. Loss due to breakage is acceptable, not excessive. Oh, wait, does Elon Musk thinks everyone has clay tiles on their roofs?
Tesla isn't even in the top 100 companies getting the most subsidies. Why do you care?
Great poem!
Tesla hasn't actually made any money yet. It's losing money, fast. It's still considered a successful company because it's projected to make a *lot* of money in a few more years, which was enough to get the required initial investment.
It's basically sand. Cheap and strong
"Bricks are a poor choice for general construction. They're poor insulators. They're difficult to make leakproof."
What a load of BS. Brick houses have been built in europe for generations. Yes, they're poor insulators, thats why you - surprise! - you insulation. As for making leakproof, no idea what you're on about. Clearly you've never even been in a brick house.
...The heat release from a burning PV panel is probably nothing like that of an asphalt shingle, but then again, asphalt shingles don't emit gallium arsenide or phosphorus in the smoke as they burn...
Nor do silicon photovoltaic panels. Gallium arsenide technology is not used in any terrestrial panels (it's far too expensive), and while silicon does use phosphorus as a n-type dopant, the word "dopant" means about one silicon atom in 10,000 is replaced by phosphrous-- you get more phosphorus in a single swallow of your favorite cola.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
I had my entire roof replaced in NE USA, shingles from box store,replaced plywood with 1/2 plywood, had 10 skylights installed, 3 dormers and a cathedral like roof, about 2000 square feet for about $23K (everything included). The job took 3 people almost 1 week to complete, and the materials were almost half the bill.
How can you type with your hands over your eyes?
...my earlier post.
By their very nature, solar panels are plates of laminated glass or plastic reinforced with wires running through them.
I.e. It's reinforced the same way bulletproof glass is.
Where conventional tiles shatter into pieces, these tiles merely crack and dent.
And the best part is, each solar plate being an array of parallelly connected cells - it will still function both as a roof tile and as a solar cell.
Whereas a conventional tile would at that point be useful only as gravel substitute.
Guy runs a company which puts rockets into space. Let's give him SOME benefit of the doubt on account of the engineering skills of his employees.
You know... let's assume that they are not exactly TOTAL fuckups.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
"Tesla Motors Inc. posted a surprise $22 million profit in its latest period, buoyed by record sales of its pricey electric cars..."
In my area (Western US), a residential home built out of cement or brick would not pass earthquake codes. Sure, there may be a veneer of brick, but underneath will be stud and sheet construction.
I think it probably also has to do with getting the largest square footage for the price, and what goes on the roof usually isn't even in the top 10 things to worry about.
And Being at places with increased odds of advantage presenting itself.
I was outdated. They are finally in profit now.
All the while, burning asphalt emits copious amounts of randomly shredded large hydrocarbons, i. e. carcinogenic soot.
... so how much are Elon's, and can I get non-solar ones even cheaper? I do my own roofing, mostly.
In his original 19min. video of the announcement in late October, Musk was very careful to always say the new roof is less than the sum of the costs of a traditional roof and the energy costs of a traditional house. The linked Bloomberg article only has snippets of Musk quotes, and I can't tell if what he said was misinterpreted. Can someone point to a more thorough report on what he has said?
Luck is the crossroads of opportunity and preparation.
Roof tiles in Europe and specifically in UK may be from natural stone (slate), ceramic fired tiles or concrete mix.
Some years ago I was involved in degassing various 'waters' and mixtures 'liquid concrete' so that the thickness could be reduced and the tensile strength increased. Gramophone records were made from concrete. House roof tiles were made from concrete at about one-eighth thickness of normal concrete tiles which made very large logistic savings passed on to customer. Unfortunately the whole operation failed [major losses for firms concerned] as customers refused to buy as they 'did not look right on thickness'! The existing tiles much thicker had educated at least two generations on what was acceptable.The step to educate to solar tiles may be easier as it is intrinsically 'not the same' as the normal roof tile. I trust it works at 53 degrees north in cloudy rain file skies as in UK.
Regards Eion MacDonald
While the solar hype seems everywhere, I can't stop myself asking few questions. According to what I heard about it, one of the biggest disadvantage of photovoltaic (PV) is the storage. With most of other electricity "providing" methods, it's possible to manage the quantity of electricity provided and when it's provided (adding coal in the boiler, opening the dam for the turbine, etc.). That means that a private/individual PV provider will not be able to stay self-sufficient along the year and will provide more than it needs at some duration. The consequence of this technical difference leads, at least on our days, to the obligation of buying electricity by regular providers when it lacks and selling it when it exceeds, assuming that there is no viable storage technologies now, in regards of efficiency and cost (http://euanmearns.com/how-much-battery-storage-does-a-solar-pv-system-need/). When I read this article, I remembered some newspaper article of this year. It says that the main electricity provider (which is a state/private partnership), will lower the cost for buying PV electricity from privates/individuals (http://www.lechodusolaire.fr/la-suisse-baisse-les-tarifs-dachat-pv-de-7-a-14-lan-prochain/) (http://www.swissolar.ch/fr/services/medias/news/detail/n-n/diskriminierende-tarifstrukturen-es-droht-ein-ausbaustopp-der-photovoltaik/). According to what precede, I wonder if private/individuals are in position to sell electricity at their convenience and this could lead, unfortunately, to some monopol of the on demand electricity.