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Elon Musk: Tesla's Solar Roof Will Cost Less Than a Traditional Roof (bloomberg.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: After Tesla shareholders approved the acquisition of SolarCity, the new company is now an unequivocal sun-to-vehicle energy firm. And Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk didn't take long to make his first big announcement as head of this new enterprise. Minutes after shareholders approved the deal -- about 85 percent of them voted yes -- Musk told the crowd that he had just returned from a meeting with his new solar engineering team. Tesla's new solar roof product, he proclaimed, will actually cost less to manufacture and install than a traditional roof -- even before savings from the power bill. "Electricity," Musk said, "is just a bonus." If Musk's claims prove true, this could be a real turning point in the evolution of solar power. The rooftop shingles he unveiled just a few weeks ago are something to behold: They're made of textured glass and are virtually indistinguishable from high-end roofing products. They also transform light into power for your home and your electric car. "So the basic proposition will be: Would you like a roof that looks better than a normal roof, lasts twice as long, costs less and -- by the way -- generates electricity?" Musk said. "Why would you get anything else?" Much of the cost savings Musk is anticipating comes from shipping the materials. Traditional roofing materials are brittle, heavy, and bulky. Shipping costs are high, as is the quantity lost to breakage. The new tempered-glass roof tiles, engineered in Tesla's new automotive and solar glass division, weigh as little as a fifth of current products and are considerably easier to ship, Musk said.
If Musk is correct then... Great! Sign me up!
I think I'll wait for a variety of third party reviews before I get too eager though. Of course Musk is going to cheer his own product, but lets see if experts agree with him and if the price really is lower when it really hits the market.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
I have a hard time believing that these are going to be less breakable than asphalt shingles. Less weight, that I might believe. I wonder if the cost comparison is only for "high end" roofing material or for the most common types: asphalt shingle, corrugated tin, etc.
Including the PV cells? Excluding the generated electricity benefit? Color me suspicious. I'd really like to see that. Mass-produced conventional solar panels (just the hardware on pallets) are still about twice as expensive as my most recent roof (including installation), per unit of area.
Ezekiel 23:20
I keep forgetting that there are places in the world that aren't California. Out there, "traditional roofing materials" are asphalt shingles, or sometimes cedar shakes, neither of which is bulky or brittle.
See that "Preview" button?
...10 times more expensive to buy for the end users.
When the solar cells dropped in price from the hefty China manufacturing of these, people in Sweden tried to purchase a lot of these, then a heftyn anti-dumping 60% import tax "to protect other producers of panels" where quickly introduced to stop this "green madness", hah...
But good on him for trying, now if the governments of the worlds would like to dance to that tune, we'd all be in the green, but I can pretty much promise you, the ones earning $$$ on something else won't have it!
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
Calm down there Mr. Free Bitcoin. If you think Musk "got lucky" by investing in PayPal, "got lucky" again when starting Tesla at just the right time, "got lucky" again by pushing the private space sector again at just the right time, and "got lucky" by building in Solar City to vertically integrate two of his biggest (and most environmentally impactful) industries, then I suppose he is just an insanely lucky man. Taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture, though, one might call him a visionary. Yes, having the right people is critical. Steve Jobs was neither a hardware nor software engineer, he was a visionary.
If they can deliver, I happen to be in the 1-3 year market for a new roof. If it really is price competitive, I might actually give it a try. However, I'm guessing it will be rolled out geographically and will be hard to get for a few years, even when they do finally make it available, so I don't hold out much hope.
It is perfectly possible that major advances have been actually made in Tesla/SolarCity labs. I'm just not sure that it will be price competitive with ordinary large panels before the manufacturing volume ramps up into GW/year levels - even better designs, built in smaller numbers, tends to fare worse compared to mass-produced stuff.
Ezekiel 23:20
Their claim in the summary is that the primary savings is in the shipping costs. If you've ever moved a full pack of asphalt roof shingles, you know they are EXTREMELY heavy for their size. Apparently, these solar shingles are lighter (which is also true with metal roofing products, usually), hence much lower shipping costs. I'm skeptical but traditional shingles do weigh enough that it *might* be possible. Plausible but unconfirmed.
I didn't read TFA
That's obvious. If you had, you'd have noticed that they're comparing the price to terra cotta and slate roofs, not "impermeable sheats of $SOMETHING", and those materials are bulky, heavy, fragile and expensive.
If it is a little cheaper then slate then it is not saying much. If it is the same as asphalt then where do I sign.
Ya, and the Hyperloop will be faster and cheaper than flying if no regulations or security are imposed.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
I'd like to see solar powered Hyperloops operating on mars one day!
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Tesla's new solar roof product, he proclaimed, will actually cost less to manufacture and install than a traditional roof -- even before savings from the power bill.
Unlikely that it will be cheaper than an asphalt shingle roof. Not so surprising that it might be cheaper than an (expensive) slate or similar high end tile.
They're made of textured glass and are virtually indistinguishable from high-end roofing products
Umm, no. They are not "indistinguishable" from high end roofing products but they are reminiscent of them and appear to be rather attractive looking on their own merits.
I'm skeptical but traditional shingles do weigh enough that it *might* be possible. Plausible but unconfirmed.
Traditional shingles are also fragile, and labor intensive to install/remove. As well, they have a tendency to sprout leaks. So many re-shingling jobs I see have ended up with replacing sheathing as well.
There have been a lot of advances recently in solar manufacturing running apace with battery technology. I'm not completely familiar with the specific technology of his batteries, but we need look no further than those smartphones we are addicted to to get a hint.
I won't be an early adopter, just like with all my other technology, I wait to see if there are any birthing problems, but once that threshhold is passed, I'm there with bells on.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Your concerns about tornadoes and cold weather and snow loading - these are things off the top of your head that you thought of within 5 minutes of skimming the article. I'm pretty certain the engineers - who spend their entire days working on this project - have thought of all of this.
That being said though, I'm with you. I would wait for a third party review as well. Let's get some objective pricing and usage data before we get too happy.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Why do people in Texas put on a new roof twice a year?? People in London, UK, replace a roof maybe once every thirty years, or longer.
Can you mount a satellite dish on them?
rain fade is still better then comcrap over compressed tv with the lowest number of HD channels of any major system.
This seems like a no-brainer, but it also seems silly to put these on north-facing or shaded roofs. It would be nice if there were cheaper, non-PV versions to cover the portions of my roof that aren't going to generate appreciable power. A consistent appearance in the roof, but only pay for the PV where it makes sense.
I guess maybe having two different versions would potentially make both more expensive.
"Open the pod by doors, Hal" > "I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave" sudo "Open the pod bay doors, Hal" > alright
I didn't read TFA
That's obvious. If you had, you'd have noticed that they're comparing the price to terra cotta and slate roofs, not "impermeable sheats of $SOMETHING", and those materials are bulky, heavy, fragile and expensive.
And asphalt shingles aren't? Just because something is in popular uses doesn't mean it's actually good. The popular roofing materials are just used because they are used, and they used to be used su that's what we use.
In fact, I see one of the hurdles to overcome will be the housing market itself. Very conservative. This makes for a business opportunity for someone who isn't affected by olde farte syndrome.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
A single clay roof tile costs the equivalent of $0.5 where I live. It's good for half a century, no problem.
I have 5 places that produce clay building bricks and clay roof tiles in a radius of 150 km to choose from.
Transportation is cheap, and even if some tiles/bricks break in transport, they're so cheap that... well, nobody cares if there's a 1% loss in material.
Probably because they built their houses out matchwood. Perfect to be blown down in a hurricane or tornado. You know all those news reports of tornado hit towns with only the chimneys still standing? You'd think that might be a clue as to what to build the whole building out of , but nope...
Are we headed for future where you lease your roof even if you own the house?
" Tesla's Solar Roof Will Cost Less Than a Traditional Roof"
Traditional *expensive* roofs.
Which is fine, don't get me wrong, but if you're expecting this to compete with a $3000 re-roof using asphalt, not going to happen. If you do have a home with something more expensive, then the issue there is that they do tend to last longer and won't be a target for replacement as often.
Musk (as in, anal scent gland) has never once told the truth. Every statement he makes is followed up with half a page of fine print disclaimers.
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What the fuck are you talking about??
The Earth absorbs 3.85 million exajoules of energy from the sun annually.
All human energy consumption combined is well under 1,000 exajoules.
So why did you say that "There is not enough insolation (sunlight striking the Earth) to power the current energy needs."? Seriously -- it is completely beyond me what you could have meant by that statement.
Sounds like Texas is in need of people that know how to build a roof that isn't a piece of shit.
Or, you're lying. I think that's more likely.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
same goes for any roof, depending on the size of the hail...
I have seen asphalt shingles roof with huge 4 inches holes in them...
depending on the area, say you have an historic building closeby, you may not be able to use regular panels. those tuscany tiles however would easily be allowed...
There is not enough insolation (sunlight striking the Earth) to power the current energy needs.
Where do you get ideas like this from? It's trivially untrue.
Solar constant is >1kW/m^2.
That's 1GW/km^2
Egypt alone is 1Mkm^2.
So we're talking about 1000TW peak generating capacity
Earths total energy consumption is the order of a hundred thousand TWh/year. Covering Egypt in solar panels would be able to generate that much energy in a few months with current technology, certainly less than a year.
If I remember my numbers correctly there's around 100km/degree * 360 degress * 100 km/degree * 60 degrees ~ 216 Egypts (including ocean) within 30 degrees of the equator. We're not even close to using 1% of the total solar energy available.
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.
Maybe in your trailer park.
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Maybe he means putting a new coat of paint on his trailer?
25 years to de-carbonize the Global Economy and we are wasting resources on rooftop panels. UGH
What makes entepreneurs successful is not luck, but taking advantage of it when it presents itself.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Because like the rest of their houses they are generally not built to last. They use asphalt shingles which is basically cut up flat roofing material. Something that would only be considered for a shed or garage in Europe.
It's probably a got something to do with the rapid build out of America during colonization. Remember ~40% of housing in the UK was built before the second world war and generally we expect the house we live in to be there long after we are dead and buried which as far as I can make out is not the case in the USA. We go for traditional brick built will stand a couple hundred years at least houses.
By "traditional" I think he means "artisinal", not "standard". Slate and tile are certainly not standard roof materials these days. I'm also skeptical that these could last as long as slate - the slate on my house is 80 years old and mostly going strong.
Having said that, if I were in a suitable location and needed a new roof, I'd give these the old cost / benefit analysis.
Anyone who's ever had to hoik those bastards up onto their roof, will know exactly how right you are. I suppose uranium ingots would out weigh them, but not by a lot.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
When a photovoltaic cell collects energy from a Photon, is does not absorb the whole photon, it only increases it's wavelength and re-emits it; basically converting regular light into infrared light.
While the regular light bouncing of a simple white roof could leave the atmosphere, taking it's excess energy with it, the now infrared light gets trapped by the greenhouse effect, heating the atmosphere.
It's 'free' electricity for the owner, excess heat for everyone else.
What they mean to say by cheaper is that solar tiles that mimic the look of high end roofing material will be cheaper than the real thing.
Solar power have nothing to do with it. They could make the tiles without the PV cells and it will be even cheaper. But comparing them with other premium materials is like comparing plastic with leather.
How are the Global Warming deniers going to turn this into a horrible thing that people should avoid?
Easy: It takes away jobs from hard working coal miners and oil workers. Then they will follow up with something along the lines of "put a GLASS roof on my house? What a stupid idea". Then there will be some idiotic populist argument about baseload power and how solar hurts our power companies by increasing costs to those who can't afford these expensive roofs.
All shitty and stupid arguments but they each make for a nice sound bite.
Take a look at this wikipedia page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Pay attention to the picture of the earth with some little black dots on it. That area of the dots is enough to meet the worlds 18TW total energy needs from solar.
The idea that there is not enough solar energy to meet the worlds total energy needs is just ignorant.
And somehow I doubt these solar tiles are going to sell for $1 a pop or anywhere close. Modern roof tiles only have to be secured with a single nail so it's hard to see how they're easy to fit unless they come on prefabricated panels or something and only the edges and joins need finishing. Perhaps that is the case, but if they're individually put in place then I don't see them being cheaper that way either because someone has to wire them all up in rows.
The video test shows the weight hitting dead center, making a clear mark- probably a crack in the tile. In addition, the tile was not held down- it was allowed to bounce up, releasing some of the energy- it wasn't a test representative of reality.. Affixed to the roof, the energy of the dropping object has to go somewhere. Furthermore, in a hailstorm- the hail will be hitting *everywhere* on the tile, not just in the center, but on the edges. I've been through a hailstorm with hail that was easily golf-ball sized. My roof (asphalt shngle) was a total loss, plus my cars all had major damage, including having to replace windshields.
All that said, I like the idea, and if Tesla is willing to warranty it against hail, I'll sign up./p?
Because thunderstorms in Texas often include torrential rain, 60+mph winds and golf ball or larger sized hail. Not to mention 100+ degree temperatures for months at a time followed by freezing temperatures during the winter. Tornadoes and microbursts are not uncommon either.
There are more homes in this country that are poorly positioned for solar power than you might expect. Their roofs might be aligned poorly for their latitude to maximize solar power generation, they may have cover from other sources (trees, other buildings, etc), they may be in a place that is generally too cloudy or has too few daylight hours, or other factors as well. If you sell these roof tiles as being less expensive and more durable, people will buy them even if they (buyers) cannot expect to generate a useful amount of power from them.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Would a roof trap excessive heat, thereby heating up the car (especially in summer)? Why not put that solar surface on the hood, where it can get connected directly to the underlying engine, and power certain less energy intensive parts of it? Is it all just about the surface area?
25 years to de-carbonize the Global Economy and we are wasting resources on rooftop panels.
What's your brilliant idea? What have you done that would do more to reduce the need for fossil fuels? Come on Mr. Snarky McCynic, dazzle us with your brilliant and feasible plan.
Frankly I can't think of a better way to reduce the need for carbon based fuels than to put solar panels and batteries on/in every building possible and switch to primarily electric cars. It's not the only think we can or should do but it's a vital piece of the puzzle.
Hard as it is to believe, you don't have to get into a panic at the thought of a warmer climate to want to save money on your electricity....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
You don't see that many large glass surfaces around for a pretty good reason...
You mean except for almost every window on every house and car made? [sarcasm] Yeah barely any glass out there. Who would use glass? [/sarcasm]
If they're so easy to ship, why does his company say "sorry, we don't operate in your zip code"? Well, that's a shame... could you, I don't know, maybe *ship some to me*? It's not like I live in Siberia, I'm a 10 minute drive from one of the larger cities in the US.
I'm already sold on the whole concept, I just really want them to let me buy their product.
Pound! Bang! Bin! Bash! is this a shell script or a Batman comic?
Ahem, you mean Oriented Strand Board (OSB) not plywood. Plywood is for boats and non-slab floors - In California, regular old Douglas Fir 2x4 and 2x6 studs, some larger beams for lintels, and OSB for shear walls. OSB for roof underlayment too.
True that the roof may cost less than a normal one, but the big costs come from the batteries that you will have to install to take advantage of it, and those actually cost quite a lot more.
I am actually kind of disappointed that Tesla is throwing their lot in with Solar City. Their sales people positively infest all of the Home Depots around here (Boston, MA). They are extremely pushy and act like you are the asshole for wanting to just shop instead of listen to their sales pitch. Any company that employs those kinds of sales tactics doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in me, and I plan to never do business with them. I was planning to consider a Tesla for my next car, but this deal is making me reconsider.
Probably merely hyperbole, but there's no doubt in my mind that tempered glass tiles are tougher than anything else in current use. I doubt the concerns over their longevity are reasonable. Also consider that they'll be easier to insure because of this.
Starting Tesla at the right time? When the price of gas fell through the floor?
In my current house, I don't think we paid anything for the wiring between the tiles. Now that I think of it, we might have even skipped the process altogether. So obviously I'm pretty excited that it can be done even more cheaply now.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
That would be true if the AGW deniers were being honest. But since they're mostly shills for the fossil fuel industry, they're every bit as opposed to one as the other.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
The Nazis, I mean "HOA" in my nieghborhood require garden sheds have exactly the same shingles as the homes. Not sure how practical it would be to wire up a standalone shed with solar panel shingles.
Then watch this video, and it's 3 years old. This is tough stuff...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6v2lDa8Hos
It'll be interesting when the first shingle gets dropped by the installer, slides down the roof, and shatters when it lands in my garden leaving an infinite number of pieces of glass.
Never seen an asphalt shingle do that.
It doesn't matter that they're cheaper to produce. All this will mean is greater profit margins for somebody in the chain.
As a consumer, if you're offered traditional tiles at £x per square metre or solar tiles that'll generate electricity at £(x+y) per square metre, the fact is that if 'y' isn't too great, you'll go with those.
Now if he could saturate the market, it may well end up being cheaper for the end user, but I'd lay odds on there's no way he'd manage to manufacture a fraction of the demand...
Bricks are a poor choice for general construction. They're poor insulators. They're difficult to make leakproof. Brick chimneys in particular are vulnerable to earthquakes. Brick + mortar is worthless in tension.
Tornado-speed winds can develop pressures of 25 pounds per square foot to ten times that much. It you want a house that stands up to tornadoes, it has to be strong enough to withstand that pressure, not be torn off its foundation, and not be damaged by minor nuisances like flying trees and flying delivery vans.
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What can you expect from a country that seems to be allergic to brick or concrete for houses and seems to build most of them out of cheap plywood.
The type of material used is determined by the price point of the dwelling in question. If you want to build a house out of brick you can do that but it's a lot more labor intensive and thus more expensive. Cheap houses are made from cheap materials no matter what country you are in. Expensive houses are usually made from pricier material no matter what country you are in.
Are these solar tiles also installed so that there are no nooks and crannies for water to get into?
Did you give that question even a moment's thought? They are roof tiles and work exactly the same way every other roof tile works.
He isn't comparing this to standard asphalt shingles which are the majority of roofs installed nationwide. He is comparing them to ceramic shingles which may be the majority installed in certain areas of CA where he is.
Asphalt shingles don't have any issues with transportation breakage, and are not fragile in transport. Those were the issues he was sighting that showed lower costs. Asphalt shingles also run around a dollar a square foot. Installed with new underlayment runs about two dollars a square foot in my area. If he can hit an installed price of three dollars a square foot then his hype is warranted. My guess is his cost will be closer to seven to ten dollars a square foot.
Its not revolutionary when his solar roof is going to run $30k when a standard replacement is $3k.
I've been through a hailstorm with hail that was easily golf-ball sized. My roof (asphalt shngle) was a total loss, plus my cars all had major damage, including having to replace windshields.
With big enough hail stones it won't matter much what your roof is made of unless you live in a bunker. I'm sure these tiles are durable but they aren't armor plating.
All that said, I like the idea, and if Tesla is willing to warranty it against hail, I'll sign up./p?
That is what insurance is for. The insurance companies will take a good hard look at the product and if they aren't likely to result in higher costs than existing products then they'll treat them pretty much like they do traditional roofing products. No real need for Tesla to warranty them against hail unless the tiles have some special properties that make them impervious to most hail.
Uhhhh, how much glass is used for horizontal (or horizontal-ish) surfaces?
Quite a lot. Open up your refrigerator and chances are you'll see a rather large load bearing glass surface. Look at atriums of commercial buildings with glass roofs. Look at greenhouses. Glass table tops. Check out the sunroofs in cars. There are glass walkways.
Horizontal glass surfaces are all over the place if you actually bother to look for them.
IIRC American power market jargon.
'wholesale clearing price' = "the highest spot price they're paying for other power sources"
'non dispatchable wholesale clearing price' (the highest spot price being paid for 'must run' power) would be fairer. (In pools they are mostly the same {hourly/half hourly/(whatever trade period they are down to) spot}, with rampers selling their control capacity in side deals.)
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I find that astonishingly hard to believe.
Current asphalt shingles are an extraordinarily-optimized product for EVERY step of their life, including:
- manufacture
- transport (bulk)
- transport (to the site, and up to the difficult places where they'll be applied)
- application (so they perform their function properly)
- application (so they are SUPER easy to install)
- functional life in terms of damage from UV, kinetic, and thermal (plus AND minus) sources.
At the simplest level, no, there's not really a conceivable way that putting a WIRED anything on a rooftop is easier than slapping down 3 tab shingles and tock-tock-tock'ing with a nailgun, (That's not going to involve substantial cost/complexity ELSEWHERE, like prefabbing the entire roof to a single piece.)
Elon's a smart guy, and I get that "some paradigms need to be broken" but I tend to be suspicious whenever someone with basically no history in an industry shows up and says "You are all doing it wrong, I have all the answers!"...usually it means they don't REALLY comprehensively understand all the questions.
-Styopa
The goverment(s) just need now to invent a solar & wind tax.
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
I've seen what hail can do to tempered automotive glass. I've seen how much better asphalt and shake shingles handle that same hail.
But yeah, everybody forgets about all of us not living on a coast. The evidence for that is all the head scratching trying to figure out why Hillary didn't win and why it takes 5 hours to fly from New York to LA.
As I understand it, hail storms also damage more conventional roofs. And if the materials are cheaper, it would cost less to fix your roof with these than it would to fix it with more conventional materials.
Furthermore, if it's just the glass that's broken but what's underneath it survives, then it's possibly repairable.
Reading comprehension much? I was not talking about interior surfaces, I was talking about exterior. I will assume that you are genuinely stupid instead of being a troll...
Do you see a lot of indoor atriums, greenhouses, sunroofs, etc or are you cherry picking to just be a jerk? You seem to be the one lacking in reading comprehension in addition to failing to understand anything about materials science. Glass does not intrinsically equal fragile. It's perfectly possible to design glass surfaces to be quite robust and take a substantial impact.
In case you still don't get the point, glass can literally be bullet proof if you want it to be. Who is the "genuinely stupid" one now?
Shingles, on the other hand, could have hail dropped from a very high distance indeed -- enough to reach terminal velocity. Where I live we had a severe hail storm a couple of months ago. A friend of mine is getting insurance to replace his entire roof.
And that is not a glass roof so what exactly is your point? No practical roofing material is going to be indestructible. Glass tiles can be just as durable as stone ones if not moreso. If you had a clue about materials science you would already know this.
What is the cost of shipping a pallet of asphalt shingles compared to a comparable number of his solar panels?
Compared to tempered glass solar cells? Really? I can drop a pallet of roof tiles off the back of a delivery truck and have almost no damage.
Asphalt shingles are made all across the country, whereas these solar panels will be made in one central location, requiring most shingles to be transported half-way across the country. Loss due to breakage is acceptable, not excessive. Oh, wait, does Elon Musk thinks everyone has clay tiles on their roofs?
Tesla isn't even in the top 100 companies getting the most subsidies. Why do you care?
Yes, yes there are! It's called the asphalt lobby, and they're basically run by the mafia/ union thugs (I knew a guy. He says you don't mess with the asphalt guys. Ever.)
Frankly, if Musk cuts into their profits he might be expecting A Visit very soon, but maybe things have changed in the last 4-5 years.
-
Tesla hasn't actually made any money yet. It's losing money, fast. It's still considered a successful company because it's projected to make a *lot* of money in a few more years, which was enough to get the required initial investment.
Because all roofs are white. The vast majority are not gray to black in color.
You think asphalt is heavy? Try hoiking terracotta tiles up onto your roof.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Hate to tell you this, but you can be a global warming skeptic and still think that lowering pollution and being efficient are good things.
It's basically sand. Cheap and strong
There's good reason to by conservative when building a house. So many things that look like wonderful new advances at the time turn out to be liabilities, such as asbestos in floor tiles and heating ducts. Or aesthetically nice buried heating oil tanks that rust through and turn your lot into a hazardous waste site.
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"Bricks are a poor choice for general construction. They're poor insulators. They're difficult to make leakproof."
What a load of BS. Brick houses have been built in europe for generations. Yes, they're poor insulators, thats why you - surprise! - you insulation. As for making leakproof, no idea what you're on about. Clearly you've never even been in a brick house.
...The heat release from a burning PV panel is probably nothing like that of an asphalt shingle, but then again, asphalt shingles don't emit gallium arsenide or phosphorus in the smoke as they burn...
Nor do silicon photovoltaic panels. Gallium arsenide technology is not used in any terrestrial panels (it's far too expensive), and while silicon does use phosphorus as a n-type dopant, the word "dopant" means about one silicon atom in 10,000 is replaced by phosphrous-- you get more phosphorus in a single swallow of your favorite cola.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
The approach you suggest was tried. It failed miserably. Most of that crowd is either already in the tank for the fossil fuel people or too stupid to get it. There's no point in being polite to them, or pretending that they'll ever act like anything but spoiled children.
At least ridiculing them can produce a few laughs, and that's a good thing.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
F^ck that!
That's getting into "I hire young guys to do that" territory.
I think the point is that Musk's roofing would be lighter than either of them. But yeah, I know a guy who had to get his roof reinforced before he could put a tile roof on.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
How can you type with your hands over your eyes?
...my earlier post.
By their very nature, solar panels are plates of laminated glass or plastic reinforced with wires running through them.
I.e. It's reinforced the same way bulletproof glass is.
Where conventional tiles shatter into pieces, these tiles merely crack and dent.
And the best part is, each solar plate being an array of parallelly connected cells - it will still function both as a roof tile and as a solar cell.
Whereas a conventional tile would at that point be useful only as gravel substitute.
Guy runs a company which puts rockets into space. Let's give him SOME benefit of the doubt on account of the engineering skills of his employees.
You know... let's assume that they are not exactly TOTAL fuckups.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
"Tesla Motors Inc. posted a surprise $22 million profit in its latest period, buoyed by record sales of its pricey electric cars..."
And asphalt shingles aren't?
Compared to terra cotta and slate? Asphalt shingles are lighter, more compact, cheaper and far less likely to be damaged during shipping and installation.
Just because something is in popular uses doesn't mean it's actually good.
I didn't say asphalt shingles were good. They're more easily damaged, more easily torn off by high winds, and wear out faster than other roofing materials. They're used because they're the cheapest roofing material and they're easy to install and the building contractors who default to them don't really give a shit about what happens ten years down the road.
There's good reason to by conservative when building a house. So many things that look like wonderful new advances at the time turn out to be liabilities, such as asbestos in floor tiles and heating ducts. Or aesthetically nice buried heating oil tanks that rust through and turn your lot into a hazardous waste site.
Though both were considered standard items at one time, your point is valid. When we changed over to gas, we decided to dig up the oil tank after draining it. And the flaming arseholes who built the house had put a old school surface tank in. And it wasn't far from speringing a leak (placed in 1959)
Even now, granite countertops can introduce a measure of radioactivity into a house, but its all the rage - though blessedly dying off.
The major advantage of asphalt shingles is they can be placed with no high skill set. But as I found out the hard way on my roof, the installers can not be up to the task. The bottom race of shingles in the valley weren't placed correctly, and there was a small square opening which allowed watter to seep into the roof, and what would normally be a ceiling leak went into the outside wall and caused a lot of damage by the time I found it. So I don't have much time for the concept of how wonderful asphalt shingles are.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I didn't say asphalt shingles were good. They're more easily damaged, more easily torn off by high winds, and wear out faster than other roofing materials. They're used because they're the cheapest roofing material and they're easy to install and the building contractors who default to them don't really give a shit about what happens ten years down the road.
I had to chuckle when I thought of using that paragraph you wrote as an advertisement for shingles.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
He clearly says "..before you take the value of electricity" in the video.
I was outdated. They are finally in profit now.
... so how much are Elon's, and can I get non-solar ones even cheaper? I do my own roofing, mostly.
In his original 19min. video of the announcement in late October, Musk was very careful to always say the new roof is less than the sum of the costs of a traditional roof and the energy costs of a traditional house. The linked Bloomberg article only has snippets of Musk quotes, and I can't tell if what he said was misinterpreted. Can someone point to a more thorough report on what he has said?
That's a bizarre explanation and misunderstanding. No, the atom absorbs the whole photon's energy, and a (large) portion of it raises the energy state of an electron. Any additional energy is lost as heat. When the electron falls back to the lower energy state, a photon is emitted with a wavelength corresponding to the difference in energy between the two states. So some is absorbed as heat, but certainly not all, and the more efficient the conversion the less waste heat. Plus, if the energy was all converted to heat then none would be around for use as electricity... conservation of energy, you know.
Roof tiles in Europe and specifically in UK may be from natural stone (slate), ceramic fired tiles or concrete mix.
Some years ago I was involved in degassing various 'waters' and mixtures 'liquid concrete' so that the thickness could be reduced and the tensile strength increased. Gramophone records were made from concrete. House roof tiles were made from concrete at about one-eighth thickness of normal concrete tiles which made very large logistic savings passed on to customer. Unfortunately the whole operation failed [major losses for firms concerned] as customers refused to buy as they 'did not look right on thickness'! The existing tiles much thicker had educated at least two generations on what was acceptable.The step to educate to solar tiles may be easier as it is intrinsically 'not the same' as the normal roof tile. I trust it works at 53 degrees north in cloudy rain file skies as in UK.
Regards Eion MacDonald
While the solar hype seems everywhere, I can't stop myself asking few questions. According to what I heard about it, one of the biggest disadvantage of photovoltaic (PV) is the storage. With most of other electricity "providing" methods, it's possible to manage the quantity of electricity provided and when it's provided (adding coal in the boiler, opening the dam for the turbine, etc.). That means that a private/individual PV provider will not be able to stay self-sufficient along the year and will provide more than it needs at some duration. The consequence of this technical difference leads, at least on our days, to the obligation of buying electricity by regular providers when it lacks and selling it when it exceeds, assuming that there is no viable storage technologies now, in regards of efficiency and cost (http://euanmearns.com/how-much-battery-storage-does-a-solar-pv-system-need/). When I read this article, I remembered some newspaper article of this year. It says that the main electricity provider (which is a state/private partnership), will lower the cost for buying PV electricity from privates/individuals (http://www.lechodusolaire.fr/la-suisse-baisse-les-tarifs-dachat-pv-de-7-a-14-lan-prochain/) (http://www.swissolar.ch/fr/services/medias/news/detail/n-n/diskriminierende-tarifstrukturen-es-droht-ein-ausbaustopp-der-photovoltaik/). According to what precede, I wonder if private/individuals are in position to sell electricity at their convenience and this could lead, unfortunately, to some monopol of the on demand electricity.