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US Life Expectancy Declines For the First Time Since 1993 (washingtonpost.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Washington Post: For the first time in more than two decades, life expectancy for Americans declined last year (Warning: may be paywalled; alternate source) -- a troubling development linked to a panoply of worsening health problems in the United States. Rising fatalities from heart disease and stroke, diabetes, drug overdoses, accidents and other conditions caused the lower life expectancy revealed in a report released Thursday by the National Center for Health Statistics. In all, death rates rose for eight of the top 10 leading causes of death. The new report raises the possibility that major illnesses may be eroding prospects for an even wider group of Americans. Its findings show increases in "virtually every cause of death. It's all ages," said David Weir, director of the health and retirement study at the Institute for Social Research at the University of Michigan. Over the past five years, he noted, improvements in death rates were among the smallest of the past four decades. "There's this just across-the-board [phenomenon] of not doing very well in the United States." Overall, life expectancy fell by one-tenth of a year, from 78.9 in 2014 to 78.8 in 2015, according to the latest data. The last time U.S. life expectancy at birth declined was in 1993, when it dropped from 75.6 to 75.4, according to World Bank data. The overall death rate rose 1.2 percent in 2015, its first uptick since 1999. More than 2.7 million people died, about 45 percent of them from heart disease or cancer.

497 comments

  1. Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    It's sure to drop further once he repeals health care.

    1. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by skids · · Score: 2

      On the bright side, the deaths due to depression due to overbearing election coverage will tail off.

    2. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you saying obama's health care caused all this decline? I agree with you.

    3. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL you have become the 'blame everything on Obama'-loser that you was mocking last year.

    4. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The wind blew my hat into a puddle of mud. Thanks Trump for not cleaning the streets!

    5. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once natural selection takes care of the scum like you, rates will rise again. Any temporary dip is a good sign since we have a lot of underbrush and we're in need of a good controlled burn.

    6. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by quenda · · Score: 1

      On the even brighter side, Trump is already 70. Unfortunately his father lived to 93.

    7. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      that you was...

      Oklahoma?

    8. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If other diseases don't get you, the depression will.

    9. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      Have you met the Vice President.

      That's a good thing.

    10. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, I'm sure taking away subsides of millions of people will work great, they can stop paying $150 per month and start paying $1500 per month, their health will certainly improve.

    11. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because no one's Insurance Company ever told them what doctor's were covered before Obamacare.

      Oh wait, it still is up to the insurance company in the fact based world...

    12. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by amiga3D · · Score: 0

      The more I see of Mike Pence the better I like him. It's a bright future.

    13. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Once natural selection takes care of the scum like you, rates will rise again.

      Unlikely. Humanity doubled in size twice in the 20th century. It won't even double once in the 21st century.

    14. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by quenda · · Score: 4, Funny

      Have you met the Vice President.

      No ... googling ... Oh dear. This guy becomes president if Trump dies? No new election?
          I wish the Donald a long and healthy life.

    15. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Motherfucking+Shit · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's a bright future.

      If you handle snakes, speak in tongues, and still view women as chattel, yeah, Pence is your guy.

      --
      "BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
    16. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Serge_Tomiko · · Score: 0

      It has nothing to do with healthcare and everything to do with genetics.

    17. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by frovingslosh · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Subsidies just drive up prices. What we need is to do away with insurance completely, make people pay for their own health care. Then you'll see how people start actually looking at their bills and questioning prices. When that happens there will be an end to hospitals charging $100 an aspirin and the other medical nonsense that we have now.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    18. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When that happens there will be an end to hospitals charging $100 an aspirin and the other medical nonsense that we have now.

      Pfft. The whole "100$ Aspirin" is the least of the concerns when it comes to hospital malfeasance. There's a lot of dirty rotten scheming going on, and it isn't anywhere near that obvious to most people.

    19. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.

      Like what, lynching blacks and dragging gays behind pickup trucks?

    20. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by SirSlud · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The dumbest thing Americans do is assume that consumers act rationally, never-mind should be expected to act rationally. Health care is an insurance product that you want everyone to be forced to pay into so that they take the quickest path to getting back to contributing towards the GDP. None of this should be up to "consumers" in so far as somebody who needs health care gets to shop around if they're sick, blind, alone, or otherwise disadvanted in a miriad of other ways - nor providers, who shouldn't be looking at competition and profit margins for the kind of work they're in.

      But I get it - you grew up with a hammer, and everything looks like a nail.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    21. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still beats anything the Left has to offer.

    22. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It won't even double once in the 21st century.

      That's a good thing. We need less people, not more.

    23. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't know whether to mod as +1 Funny or +1 Insightful

    24. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I blame Obama!

    25. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean the health care law endorsed by President Obama that caused this? (Well, probably not, but it's his watch.)

    26. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by gijoel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I can not even begin to tell you how dumb this idea is. Are you seriously going to haggle with the emergency staff, as they're about to treat your heart attack? What about when your s.o. finds a lump in their breasts/chest? What are you going to tell your kid, when they get lymphoma? "Sorry sweetie. You deserve the best, but we can only afford to send you to that guy that operates out of a dumpster." And what's the point of scrutinizing your medical bills when the medical insurance companies in your area are monopolies.

    27. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by ooloorie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But of course! After eight years of Obama, life expectancy drops... and you already prepare to blame Trump!

      In actual fact, one of the biggest contributors to lower life expectancy is obesity, and one of the biggest identifiable causes of obesity is government policy: corn subsidies and bad federal nutritional guidelines.

    28. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by sg_oneill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The more I see of Mike Pence the better I like him. It's a bright future.

      Theocracies are hell and are up there with fascist dictatorships and totalarian communism in the really really shit ways to run a country stakes.

      Bright future, if goosestepping whilst clutching a bible , is your thing.

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    29. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      That may end the $100 aspirin but what about lung/heart/joint surgery? Diabetes? Hemophilia? ...

    30. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's great if you need aspirin, but what happens when you need major surgery or expensive long term treatment? Most people can't get hold of tens of thousands of dollars at short notice, especially when they sick.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    31. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by coteriescavenger · · Score: 0, Troll

      That's not how it works at all. You wouldn't have to haggle. All you have to do is look at a few providers and choose the one you like best. No different than the effort you put into any other free market service. Providers automatically bring their prices down to attract more clients. Basic economics. I swear, slashdot users are 5 internet years behind free speech sites like 4chan and funnyjunk.

    32. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      good luck to the massive % of the population that lives in areas where only a single hospital is within two hours drive

    33. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you mean like we do with every presidency ?

    34. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you'd prefer that to.. what from the left? Having to let gays marry???

    35. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by geekmux · · Score: 0

      It's sure to drop further once he repeals health care.

      Ah, because there's no chance the change in healthcare has caused the decrease, right?

    36. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by coteriescavenger · · Score: 0

      It's good for them too. Hospitals don't have special rates for their rural patients. They would benefit from the same market competition as their city dwelling fellows.

    37. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by BlueStrat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The dumbest thing Americans do is assume that consumers act rationally, never-mind should be expected to act rationally.

      Yes, people never make the choices *I* think they should make, so I want the government to *force* MY choices on everyone else with the threat of imprisonment or death to back it up.

      Health care is an insurance product that you want everyone to be forced to pay into...

      Ain't Fascism great?

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    38. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But since healthcare is basically your life on the line, and people quite profitably threaten people and get given free money just not to hurt or kill them, what makes you think that medical bills will come down there? Hospitals have to maximise shareholder value too!

    39. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by multi+io · · Score: 1

      It's sure to drop further once he repeals health care.

      Nah, he's gonna replace it with something amazing!

    40. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Kiuas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What we need is to do away with insurance completely, make people pay for their own health care.

      Excellent plan. So now when someone gets say cancer, unless they happen to have tens or possibly hundreds of thousands stashed away for cancer-day, they can either try to apply for a loan or go the way of walter white. Advanced health care is so expensive, there is no practical way for most people to pay it out of pocket and the demand is inelastic (people who have a serious condition requiring immediate care do not have the time or the capabilities to compare prices and go to the other side of the country to get their treatment slightly cheaper) which make market based solutions terribly inefficient at providing it cheaply.

      Moreover, since the demand is fairly static there's no way of effectively competing in a market with existing hospitals. Take something as simple as X-rays for example: a given area will have a fairly constant demand for xrays that's directly tied to the size of the population, let's say 10 000 as an example. But the machines and the staff to run x-ray machines cost a lot. The price of a simple machine is around a million. If we assume a life-span of 10 years for the device, that factors down to roughly 10 dollars an image as the base cost (+ staff costs + margins for the hospital). If someone else buys a device to compete with the first one, they too will have to try and recoup their costs, which will drive the base-price of an image up in both hospitals, raising the costs overall. If demand is split evenly between both it means the base-cost will double.

      The infrastructure to provide advanced medical care cost enormous amounts of money, which acts both as a barrier to entry to the market, as well as making sure that increasing competition will lower the general efficiency of a system once you start getting more capacity than you'd actually need to satisfy the needs of a given population.

      When that happens there will be an end to hospitals charging $100 an aspirin and the other medical nonsense that we have now.

      Or, you could just do what most other developed economies have already done and institute direct controls on pricing. Just having a public option for insurance allowing the government to leverage its size and negotiate down prices would be a start. There's no justifiable reason for allowing companies to rake in gigantic profits on a life-saving service that pretty much everyone will need at some point in their life.

      To this day, I've never understood why the richest country on the planet allows its citizens to be left to die or saddled with massive debt over medical issues when there are several existing models of providing first world level advanced care at a much cheaper cost per capita (in fact, every single existing medical system is cheaper than the US one)..

      But that requires treating health care as a right of citizens, not as a commercial commodity, which goes against the divine mantra of 'the free market is the solution to everything' that seems to dominate american politicians' discussion on health as if the only way to keep people healthy is to sell them health.

      --
      "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
    41. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... one of the biggest identifiable causes of obesity is government policy: corn subsidies and bad federal nutritional guidelines.

      How about backing that up with facts? A link? Any evidence? I know facts are sooooo last year, but in a rational discussion, they're still necessary.

    42. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Racerdude · · Score: 2

      Do you have a practical example of anywhere in the world where this works?? Because all west world countries that have working health care systems have the exact opposite of what you suggest. I live in Sweden with completely free health care. There's no $100 aspirin here.

    43. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by silentcoder · · Score: 3, Informative

      The horrors do not end there.
      If Air Force one crashes into the atlantic tomorrow with both Trump and Pence on board... the presidency goes to the speaker of the House. In this case Paul Ryan - a man who has run several times and was never able to get the nomination. He's saner than either the president- or vice-president elect but his own brand of ultra-selfcentered, classist asshole.
      When he accepted the speakership it was only on condition of being allowed a minimum number of weeks a year to spend with his family - he is clearly in favor of the idea of family vacations... for rich people, because he also repeatedly fought and voted against making America NOT be one of the only countries on earth without protected, paid family leave.
      Only in America is a couple of weeks a year to spend with your family, rest up a bit, get out of town a bit - without worrying about losing your job or lost wages NOT considered an essential right for a well-functioning society. Paul Ryan has gone to extraordinary lengths to ensure that these things remain the privilege of the rich and wealthy - or at least those with rare enough job skills to be able to personally negotiate them contracts.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    44. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Racerdude · · Score: 1

      The dumbest thing Americans do is assume that consumers act rationally, never-mind should be expected to act rationally.

      Yes, people never make the choices *I* think they should make, so I want the government to *force* MY choices on everyone else with the threat of imprisonment or death to back it up.

      Health care is an insurance product that you want everyone to be forced to pay into...

      Ain't Fascism great?

      Strat

      You do realize that this is how it works in most west world countries that actually have functioning health care systems? Would you say that the Nordic countries: Sweden, Denmark, Norway, with completely free health care, are fascist countries??

    45. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If women were chattle they wouldn't come with a dowry.

    46. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah it's worked so well with internet.

    47. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      I stubbed my toe walking around in the dark. I blame Trump!! Damn him!! :-|

      No worse than the shit obama got blamed for.

      http://files.explosm.net/comic...

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
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    48. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes he would. Which reveals the shallow understanding he has about the shit he's talking about.

    49. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by silentcoder · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But, you can't have poor people dying because they can't afford healthcare... and an individual cannot really negotiate with a large corporation - especially when the price for turning down their offer is to die.

      So what can we do... mmm well we could pool a lot of people's money together. They could negotiate prices as a group - which can be on equal footing with the suppliers, and the group as a whole isn't "about to die" so the negotiations are no longer happening under duress. Then you can also use standard actuarial table structures to spread risk around so that those with little risk right now can help cover those with high risk - and get better results for all.
      Of course, such systems work better the larger the pool - so you will want to get EVERYBODY in on it (that's a fundamental attribute of actuarial tables - they only WORK if they are BIG). Ideally - you want the pool to be available, in it's entirety, to pay for healthcare - so it should probably not be profit driven.

      There was a system, very much like that, in Scottland in the 19th century - it was actually the first ever use of actuarial tables to spread risk, instituted by the Scottish church to help the wealthier congregations assist the poorer ones in their care duties.
      But it doesn't seem ideal to have a religious organisation run this - after all, people don't all have the same religion and it would cause friction that would limit the pool of potential contributors.

      Mmm we could set up a massive, non-religiously affiliated organisation to collect dues and manage the fund, handle the negotiations and take care of the payments when we need it !
      Seems like a huge amount of effort to get set up and convince everybody to sign on though - and a bit of a chicken/egg problem since the greatest benefits (the negotiation power) only comes when you have lots of members, but to get lots of members you need to offer the benefits.

      If only there was some organisation that was already established, had lots of negotiation power, the infrastructure to collect and manage dues with an already existing tiered-structure to scale your dues to your income, capacity to handle payments, no profit motive and no religious affiliation which we could leverage to run this national insurance scheme for us... I know we can use our government ! They're perfect ! This is EXACTLY the sort of thing we invented them for !

      Oh wait, we just invented single payer healthcare.

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      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    50. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by EzInKy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And this is different from forcing everyone to pay for the military how?

      --
      Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    51. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      that you was...

      Oklahoma?

      Possibly Yorkshire.

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    52. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by EzInKy · · Score: 1

      Yes, certainly everyone will flock to those hospitals and providers who are the most efficient. "Hold the pickle, hold the lettuce, special orders don't upset us".

      --
      Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    53. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by EzInKy · · Score: 1

      So people will flock to the hospitals across town because they are cheaper? I wonder how many will perish along the way?

      --
      Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    54. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I didn't know the US had a left. I thought you had right-wingers and wacko right-wingers.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    55. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by skam240 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Talk about willful ignorance, if there's only one hospital to go to then there's no competition. No competition means whatever price they want.

      --
      I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
    56. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      you saying obama's health care caused all this decline? I agree with you.

      Yes, yes we are saying that. All those cases of diabetes, heart disease and stroke developed in the past 8 years, to people who never had so much as a cold before Obama destroyed the healthcare system.

    57. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >In actual fact, one of the biggest contributors to lower life expectancy is obesity, and one of the biggest identifiable causes of obesity is government policy: corn subsidies and bad federal nutritional guidelines.

      Something Obama made a serious effort to act on early in his presidency, he desperately tried to regulate that industry - make sure consumers are informed of what's in their food and encourage companies to improve the quality of what they sell. Only to have it scuppered by the republican congress.
      So if there is any blame on government - then by your own reasoning - that blame lies with the republican party.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    58. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by dargaud · · Score: 1

      Yeah, like you are going to start arguing prices with an hospital. Right. The ONLY ones who can do that are centralized healthcare systems like in Europe where they argue prices, enforce them and sometimes (rarely) fine establishments who won't play along.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    59. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Mashiki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you handle snakes, speak in tongues, and still view women as chattel, yeah, Pence is your guy.

      I didn't know he was an Islamist. Those are all very pro-muslim things to be doing.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    60. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      If you don't think less health coverage will mean lower life expectancy, I'd love to hear your logic. Do Cubans live longer than Americans purely because of the healing properties of their cigars?

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    61. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or just let Medicare negotiate prices with its market power like the rest of the world. Bush took that right away for private profit.

    62. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      Sure. One easy thing we can do is abolish ambulances and have the sick and injured find the cheapest uber fare to the most competitive hospital within 100 miles.

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    63. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      Ah, because there's no chance the change in healthcare has caused the decrease, right?

      Before the change, I hadn't been to a doctor in 20 years because I couldn't afford it, then this year I was able to go in for treatment. Let's hear your theory for how being able to see a doctor has killed people. Are doctors that incompetent? Is it all the legalized euthanasia from those death panels? Are Cuban doctors way better than American doctors since Cubans live longer being able to see them?

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    64. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by RghtHndSd · · Score: 5, Informative

      The horrors do not end there. If Air Force one crashes into the atlantic tomorrow with both Trump and Pence on board... the presidency goes to the speaker of the House.

      The Vice President doesn't fly on Air Force One, he flies on Air Force Two. In fact, the President and Vice President don't spend much time together precisely for this reason.

    65. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Standard xray machines certainly don't cost anywhere near a million dollars. It doesn't take a highly trained team to run one either.

    66. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Health insurance enabled health care's astronomical costs. It is cause and effect.

    67. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Kiuas · · Score: 2

      Standard xray machines certainly don't cost anywhere near a million dollars.

      Yeah I'm aware the standard versions are much cheaper, however this does not change the core of the argument: you cannot drive down cost by having several playes get expensive infrastructure for a service with a static demand while they all at the same time seek to make a profit on it.

      It doesn't take a highly trained team to run one either.

      I don't know about the US staff requirements, but in here radiological nurses go through around 4 years of training including physics having to do with radiation does calculations and so on. I'd say that's relatively highly trained. And again, even if you hire hobos from the street and pay them 5 $ an hour, this doesn't change the argument.

      --
      "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
    68. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Fuckin A.....

      Healthcare like Government are special edge cases so as a rule of thumb - it doesn't run like a market.

      You're in a car accident ... you going to call around for the cheapest ambulance ? Internal bleeding, your choice, Two hospitals one a few miles over the next 30 miles. You going to call around for the cheapest ER ?

      you're dead.

    69. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      So people will flock to the hospitals across town because they are cheaper?

      I did not say that. Why do you think that that will happen?

      --
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    70. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by BlueStrat · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You do realize that this is how it works in most west world countries that actually have functioning health care systems? Would you say that the Nordic countries: Sweden, Denmark, Norway, with completely free health care, are fascist countries??

      The US had the most advanced medicine in the world for many decades. World leaders from across the world came to the US for serious health problems. That is not so true since the US has gradually and increasingly tried to mimic other nations' healthcare systems.

      As to the Nordic nations you mention, the medical systems are mixes of socialist and fascist in structure and have never led globally in medical advances like the US.

      Forgive me if I'd prefer the US stick to the principles it was founded upon and which are responsible for making the US a global superpower within 2 centuries of it's founding and the home of the most advanced medicine in the world. Why should the US mimic demonstrably-inferior systems?

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    71. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you don't think less health coverage will mean lower life expectancy, I'd love to hear your logic. Do Cubans live longer than Americans purely because of the healing properties of their cigars?

      It might possibly be because their diet isn't 80% sugar.

    72. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by silentcoder · · Score: 0

      mmm, interesting.
      But I'm sure you can come up with some scenario where a natural disaster kills them both at once.
      Congress certainly thought it was possible - which is WHY there is a third-in-line person. Same thing could happen if, say, they both got involved in some major corruption scandal and both of them were impeached.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    73. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by EzInKy · · Score: 1

      I think those that sit in the Ivory Towers will get richer, those who provide bedside care will get fewer, and many of those who need care will die to increase CEO bonuses.

      --
      Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    74. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Humanity doubled in size twice in the 20th century.

      Globally that may be true. It was a lot faster in the US. 1900 population 76 million. 2000 population 282 million. 282/76 = 3.7.

      Humanity in the USA increased 8-fold in the 20th century,

    75. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aren't you paying attention, it is Bush's fault obviously.

    76. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      I've always opposed to the corn subsidies, I find it ridiculous we subsidize maize at a rate higher than any other healthier vegetable. When Bush started the ridiculously high subsidies is when we started having these 99cent heart-attack specials pop up everywhere. In essence we're paying taxes for farmers to produce the worst food crop, that goes in part to feed cows to make artificially cheap low quality corn-fed beef.

      Not just that we're subsidizing the world. Our taxes are making everybody else fat too. as countries like us, and Argentina ship tax payer funded cheap fatty beef around the world.

      Can't we subsidise cabbages, or peas, or lettuce, or ... I don't know anything else healthy instead of maize which is essentially just sugar with almost no nutritional value?

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    77. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forgive me if I'd prefer the US stick to the principles it was founded upon and which are responsible for making the US a global superpower within 2 centuries of it's founding and the home of the most advanced medicine in the world. Why should the US mimic demonstrably-inferior systems?

      Strat

      Bullshit. The one and only thing that made the US a powerhouse was genocide. You killed most of the inhabitants of an entire continent, and gave their land to your own people, giving rise to an age of prosperity for those people. That age is coming to an end. The US still occasionally has its little killing sprees around the world, but instead of stealing much on these adventures and bringing the goods home for the people, it now taxes the people to pay mega-corporations to support the troops.

    78. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 0

      It's sure to drop further once he repeals health care.

      It's amazing how someone's already dragged Trump into this. Basically, with the crappy Obama economy depressing people plus Obamacare destroying health insurance for a vast swath of self-employed America we've seen death rates go up. So the reaction from the left is to try to change the topic to Donald Trump. Pathetic, really.

      He can't repeal health care. He can repeal Obamacare. Rates went up 125% in Arizona for next year - do you really think this is sustainable long term?

    79. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Kiuas · · Score: 1

      Health insurance enabled health care's astronomical costs. It is cause and effect.

      Insurance has certainly played a large part in the explosion of costs, but it is not the sole or even the main cause as much as it's a catalyst. Insurance is an added margin on top of the cost of care itself, but there are numerous countries which do use a partially insurance based system coupled with a public option and pricing controls that still achieve costs way lower costs than those of the US on equal level of care.

      The US health market, both hospitals as well as insurers, is dominated by private commercial entities. This means even without insurers, the system would seek an equilibrium where it can extract the most money out of people because that is what corporations do, Even without insurer-middlemen, if a corporation can double the price of treatment and end up making more money, the fact that some people will now die because they can no longer afford the procedure is irrelevant, from the standpoint of shareholders. This is why pretty much every country outside the US heavily limits and controls health business.

      --
      "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
    80. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      or the jail / prison pop goes way up as they become doctors of last resort.

    81. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by tsqr · · Score: 1

      Birth rate in the US is currently below replacement level. At this point, the increase in population is entirely due to immigration.

    82. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by SirSlud · · Score: 1

      Need to obey traffic lights? Fascism! Pay taxes? Fascism! Building permits? Fascism! Your idiocy? Freedom!

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    83. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The story is about a drop in life expectancy under Obama's rule. Yet, somehow, that's OK because Obama can do no wrong, it's all Trump's fault somehow.

    84. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by gtall · · Score: 4, Insightful

      More precisely, the Republicans in Congress will repeal the ACA. Their plan is to replace it with something else that keeps the provisions they like, such as coverage for prior conditions and keeping sproggs on their parents' plan until age 26.

      The problem for them will be that insurance companies are not going to support keeping those provisions as an unfunded mandate. That means Congress will have to cover the bill. Problem there is that Congress would have raise taxes which they pledged to that moron Grover Norquist they would never do.

      A bigger problem will be that insurance companies are in it for themselves, covering people is only something they must do to stay in business. Government pulling back from the ACA means they have their privates hanging out there and so will pull back their plans. Congress figures they have 2-3 years to replace the ACA after they vote to repeal it, but the insurance companies probably won't wait and will start canceling policies early.

      The only fix is to find money elsewhere in the budget to keep the wheels on. That will be difficult since they also wish to increase defense spending AND supply the jack needed for a large public infrastructure program, which the U.S. does need. They claim they will find the money elsewhere. But they've already cut discretionary spending quite a bit. Going after mandatory spending means mixing it up with the blue hairs and AARP and would take years.

      Congress figures that relaxing regulations and fixing the tax code will increase GDP to such an extent that tax receipts will go up. Yet their plans will decrease tax receipts. During the Kennedy administration when taxes were relatively high, cutting taxes would get a big bang for the buck. Now it will only supply a whimper. Decrease regulations is all wonderful except that ignoring regulation and not properly regulating led to the last recession. And companies are not complaining about regulation except polluting companies. Relaxing regs on them means increased costs for the resulting pollution.

      If the Republicans are correct and 95% of climate scientists are in on the global warming scam, then a bit more pollution won't matter. However, if they are wrong, then there will be increasing costs (regardless of deregulation) for droughts, stronger storms, etc.

      And then there is the Black Swans out there. One really big national disaster, say a big California earthquake, means their budget projections will be very wrong very fast.

    85. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Communist Bernie had no chance against right-winger corrupted Hillary. The Left die with Bernie Sander.

    86. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, yes we are saying that. All those cases of diabetes, heart disease and stroke developed in the past 8 years, to people who never had so much as a cold before Obama destroyed the healthcare system.

      Financial well being has a lot more to do with overall health and life expectancy than you health care plan. People with less money generally eat less healthy foods and are generally under more stress.

    87. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by dywolf · · Score: 5, Informative

      the US does not have the worlds most advanced medicine.
      nor does it have the best system.

      the systems in place throughout Europe are not "demonstrably inferior".

      our quality, outcomes, and life expectancy are all below average, while our costs are the highest in the world.
      most of Europe enjoys better outcomes, better quality of care, and higher life expectancies, for between 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of comparable care in the US.

      All you've done is prove you don't know what you're talking about, nor do you know the definitions of socialism or fascism.
      Again.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    88. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by dywolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...while having a heart attack...

      sure buddy.
      sure.
      keep telling yourself that.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    89. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by dywolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      the fallacy here is in thinking that the health care industry hasn't been acting like a market.

      IT HAS.
      For decades.

      And the result has been that the people who need the health care aren't the ones being served, not really, not in the classical economic sense, but rather its the insurance and provider industries that are. Because the simple fact is that when you are sick, you ARE NOT a rational actor in an ideal market.

      If your doctor says you need this 300k$ surgery to survive, and then you need to take this $500 a pill medication every day for the rest of your life, or you will die...
      you're not going to shop around. you're not going to say wait, hold on. you're gonna say "OK".

      And they know this.
      Prices are high simply because they can be.

      Because market fetishists delude themselves into thinking it will sort itself out, even though all evidence says otherwise, and the majority of other nations have figured out that it IS indeed possible to reign in costs through the power of government. We (the USA) are the only self-deluded outlier in this subject.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    90. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My two year old asked me when Trump was going to start building the gas chambers. I am shaking. I had to tell him that I don't know. I'm so scared rn

    91. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For a guy who thinks he's so insightful you spend a lot of time talking... about a dozen posts already today. Why don't you get out there an actually take on the reins of responsibility and action instead of just mouthing off about your ideas (that are mostly flawed and hyperbolic). Show us how it's done if you are so wise.

    92. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't disagree with your end point, but do you know what a Congressman goes through in a year?

      I once talked to someone very close to the political scene in D.C. (You'd know the family name if I mentioned it here.) He told me that becoming a Senator is 1,000 days of fundraising.

      Think about that for a minute. Senators get 6-year terms. 365 days per year means 2190 days total. 1000 of those are fundraising days. That leaves 1190 for doing actual work and maybe spending a little time with your family. You can guess that most of that 1190 days is spent with other lobbyists and lawmakers, leaving very little time for family.

      Paul Ryan may not be consistent in his priorities for himself and the people he represents, but I can understand where he's coming from demanding a couple of weeks per year spending time with his family.

    93. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by bfpierce · · Score: 1

      I mean, did it actually show any rate increase when the law was implemented? Serious question, dunno the answer to it.

    94. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by dywolf · · Score: 1

      this shows a rather marked ignorance of how exactly insurance even came to be.

      as medicine became more advanced (ie, moved past Doc Anderson hopping in his buggy to come give you liniment), costs began rising.

      eventually someone figured out "hey, we don't all get sick at the same time."
      "lets pool our money together."
      "we'll all pay in. George, you'll pay in a bit more since you get sick more often"
      "when one of gets sick and needs the doc, we'll pay out of the pool."

      that's the origin of insurance in a nutshell....before it became a self-serving for-profit industry, with fees, "determinations" as whether you really need treatment, treatment denials, pre-existing conditions, etc.

      the insurance industry exists because it, however ineptly and inefficiently, fills a need: specifically, that people CANNOT pay for their care on their own when tragedy strikes. medical bankruptcies would be even more common without insurance, than with it.

      so no, you're wrong.
      the way forward is not to go backwards.
      the forward is to go the next step further than insurance and institute single payer or some other form of government level control.... like every other civilized nation that gets better care at half the cost .

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    95. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by dywolf · · Score: 1

      the cost isn't zero either, and standard xray machines are now also now rarely used for general diagnostics....because it's xrays. ionizing radiation that carried its own risks and so frequent usage is avoided.

      for example MRIs and other machines are used much more commonly now, for the simple reason that they provide many times more information, and better diagnosis, than your "standard xray machine" canard.

      and MRI machines ARE expensive.
      and every hospital has one...or several.

      in fact the installed capacity of MRI machines is incredibly high, far beyond what is actually needed in this country; the only country with a higher (and more inefficient) installed capacity of MRI machines is Japan.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    96. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by dwillden · · Score: 1

      It would be nice if people would actually try and research someone before they make bs claims about them. Ryan has only run for the VP once, as Romney's choice. He had the nomination handed to him. Other than that he's won every time he's run for Federal Office which have all been for his seat in the House. I get it, you don't like him because he is a Republican. But at least try to be accurate in your description of his political career.

      Because if you can't get basic documented history correct how can we expect your claims on his positions to have any more credibility.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    97. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      It's sure to drop further once he repeals health care.

      Why would you assume that? The correlation is that since Obamacare caused life expectancy has dropped for the first time since 1993. If it's repealed, maybe it will start going back up.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    98. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by meta-monkey · · Score: 0

      We did not invent our government to run our healthcare. We invented them to shoot foreigners and otherwise fuck off.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    99. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by dywolf · · Score: 1

      meanwhile back in reality:
      -the economy is in its best shape, basically ever
      -the rate of premium increase is actually lower than it was pre-obamacare*

      (*yes, your individual plan may have gone up a lot, but when you've got a super plan for super cheap, that's called a market correction. the fact remains, that on the aggregate, while premiums have always increased year to year, the increases under obamacare were smaller than they were before obamacare)

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    100. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The left don't want to allow gays to marry. The want to force straight people to marry gays in death camps. Don't you listen to women who used to prance around in their undies?

    101. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Obama derangement syndrome was real, but Trump derangement is an order of magnitude worse. In 2008 Obama just had to deal with occasional rumors about his birthplace and whatever remnants of open white supremacy still exist in the 21st century, not a year-long media campaign with open, unabashed attempts to portray him as a literal fascist and the second coming of Hitler. Every president gets compared to Hitler of course, but usually by random nutjobs, not major MSM outlets.

      http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/mainstream-media-scream-cnn-compares-trump-to-hitler-stalin/article/2604155
      http://www.wnd.com/2016/10/5-washington-post-writers-liken-trump-to-hitler/
      etc.

      BTW that voice in your head right now saying "Well that's different, Trump really is Hitler"? That's the TDS talking.

      Then of course there is the constant effort to label Trump and everyone associated with him with every "-ism" they can think of. Freaking Ben Carson is a white supremacist; Steve Bannon is a nazi because Breitbart supports confederate flags and Bannon may or may not have said something weakly anti-semitic in a private conversation 20+ years ago; Trump voters are all KKKers because one attention whore neonazi threw a rally attended by more reporters than people and declared himself king of the alt-right.

      (Oh yeah, and then there's this thread blaming him for shit happening before he's even in office. And wasn't Obamacare specifically supposed to do the opposite of things like this?)

    102. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They can join the middle class folks who make too much money to take advantage of the subsidies and already pay the ludicrous full price for healthcare.

      Pro Tip: If folks have to rely on government assistance to even AFFORD healthcare, then the entire healthcare system needs to be burned to the ground and rebuilt from scratch.

    103. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by peragrin · · Score: 3, Informative

      That proves your stupidity. Those are core values of all religions Abraham. That would be Jews Christians and Muslims all have the same core beliefs and foster a us versus them attitude.
      Seriously Christians believe women should be fully covered though they replace burkas with bonnets.

      Please actually look up your Christian beliefs some day. You might be depressed to know that woman rights are secondary to men. That slaves are allowed from neighboring countries and a few other things these are not just Islamist but fundamental beliefs of all religions of Abraham. Since they all share parts of the same book it makes sense. Yes the Koran and the Bible borrow and are heavily influenced by the Torah and other Jewish teachings.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    104. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by dmesg0 · · Score: 1

      On the even brighter side, Trump is already 70. Unfortunately his father lived to 93.

      Unfortunately his father lived to 41..

    105. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In this case Paul Ryan - a man who has run several times and was never able to get the nomination.

      This is completely false. Ryan was drafted to be Speaker of the House - he didn't want it, but did agree to take the position after a power vacuum appeared after Boehner's departure. And Ryan has never, not once run for president.

    106. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by geekmux · · Score: 1

      Ah, because there's no chance the change in healthcare has caused the decrease, right?

      Before the change, I hadn't been to a doctor in 20 years because I couldn't afford it, then this year I was able to go in for treatment. Let's hear your theory for how being able to see a doctor has killed people. Are doctors that incompetent?

      First of all, when I speak of change, I'm talking about the shift to socialized medicine within the US. Yes, this helped millions of people perhaps obtain insurance for the first time, but it sure as shit was not the golden egg that was promised with regards to choice, and a lot of those millions are finding it's worth it to pay the penalties rather than pay the insurance premiums. Ironically, families who do participate likely get sick more often because they're burdened with paying insane insurance premiums, and can't afford to put healthy food on the table. Starts to really make you wonder what the fuck the point of it all was, other than to put more money into the pockets of the greedy who lobbied for it.

      As far as doctors being incompetent, that depends on how biased their decisions are to feed the Medical Industrial Complex. Chances are you won't escape a doctors office today without being prescribed something in a bottle, along with a half-dozen follow-up examinations which are 4 minutes long, just enough time to legally check the liability box, but not a second more. They're also being far more intrusive regarding those "standard forms" you fill out when you visit for a bad cough, asking questions about job performance and how depressed you are. Ignorance would deny the profits being driven from such statistical gathering. I made an appointment for a cough, and suddenly I'm getting my head shrunken, which of course is always fixed with a bottle of new-and-improved pills that we'll find wrapped up in a class-action lawsuit 5 years from now due to the negative impact.

      If you want to dig deeper into the theory behind bias, I covered that in another post regarding resource management.

    107. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand, this rise could be a direct result of healthcare prices growing exponentially... (yes, more people "covered" [you can get pain killers prescribed], less procedures actually performed due to cost).

    108. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by mi · · Score: 1

      It's sure to drop further once he repeals health care.

      This is amazing. I was going to post something snarky to the effect that, had Republicans done some kind of major overhaul of national healthcare in recent years, they would've been blamed for the decline of longevity.

      But reality is even stranger than what I imagined — although Obamacare was passed without a single Republican vote, the Democrats blame Republicans for nation's worsening health anyway. Because of something they may do in the future!..

      Now, the Anonymous Coward may have been sarcastic. But the moderators, who've elevated him to "Score: 4, Insightful" (at the time of this typing), certainly weren't...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    109. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      I don't think there is any denying that Obamacare has helped a certain segment of society. There exists a group that got access to care they did not have before. There is a much much larger group that now pays a great deal more for the care they already had access to and is being gradually priced out of consuming as much care as they once did due to the rise in deductibles and premiums they are paying. I know for example I am paying a little more than 3 times what I paid before 2010 in premiums and my deductible as doubled. If I were on a tighter budget the added cost of the premiums would lesson my ability to shoulder the higher out of pocket costs due to the rise in deductible.

      There are a lot of families and individuals who are now choosing not to treat minor ailments because they can't fit the out of pocket costs into their budgets. There probably is a cumulative effect of living with these conditions. Although its a bit soon for that show up in life expediency I would think. Still its not at all hard to see how Obamacare has materially hurt far more people than it has helped. The issue is for a small group of people it has help a lot.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    110. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Ross+Finlayson · · Score: 1

      Even more unfortunately, his father had Alzheimer's Disease - which tends to run in the family.

    111. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Funny

      We just have to hope Trump et al go ballooning.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    112. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by sls1j · · Score: 1

      This is part of the problem. The government prevents the building hospitals, and closely watches how many hospital beds are located in an area. Without the ability to build there isn't any choice thus no market pressure. This is one regulation that needs to go out the window. Let entrepreneurs build.

    113. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by TechHSV · · Score: 2

      Our high end services are the best in the world. Not everyone can afford that, but it is available to some. People without money have a lower level of care. When you put those two groups together, it does average out to be less in some areas than other countries.

    114. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So...GP was correct, then? Got it.

    115. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by hey! · · Score: 1

      I've been following this story, and I expect we're not looking at the future, but rather stagnation in the status quo for the last fifteen years or so plus statistical noise.

      Where things gets interesting when you start disaggregating the trends. If you look at the life expectancy data by county, the disparity is shocking: almost all rural and poor counties saw little or no improvement in life expectancy since the late 80s, but life expectancy has improved dramatically (5 years or more) in urban and wealthy counties. And here's an interesting fact: the gap between white and black life expectancy has narrowed, but this is largely due to stagnation in life expectancy among working class whites.

      This indicates to me that poor access to health care advances for working class and rural whites has driven the overall stagnation in life expectancy. This is in part what Obamacare was intended to address, however it can't possibly improve the situation in rural counties without Medicaid expansion.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    116. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah ma'e, sands more like yer orfentic Eshtry English, innit.

    117. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by DarkOx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If your doctor says you need this 300k$ surgery to survive, and then you need to take this $500 a pill medication every day for the rest of your life, or you will die...
      you're not going to shop around. you're not going to say wait, hold on. you're gonna say "OK".

      Yes if someone else is writing the check you certainly will. If you had to pay out of pocket lots of people would say "I can't." At which point the medical providers are going to have to find a way to deliver for a lower cost if they want the work at all. They charge enough to basically wipe out the majority of their potential patients but no more. The problem is right now there is essentially no upper limit on what they can charge.

      I would also argue that a lot of people might choose alternatives like 'make me comfortable as long as possible' at those prices. $300k I might find away to come up with but at say half a million I might decide it would be better to not bankrupt my family leave my wife and children with some of our aquired wealth and a hefty life insurance payout. I think a lot of people would

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    118. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by roman_mir · · Score: 0

      you want everyone to be forced to pay into

      - I completely disagree, individual freedom is more relevant and more important than individual life, i.e., an individual should be able to do with his or her life as he or she pleases, but they should not get any subsidies from anybody based on the oppression of any government apparatus.

      This is not about GDP, this is not about society, this is about individual freedoms and I am 100% against anybody being forced to subsidise anybody else, under those conditions buying health insurance is a decision that would be taken much more seriously than if everybody was oppressed by the state and forced to pay into it.

    119. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by skids · · Score: 1

      OK Ivan, crawl back to momma bear now.

    120. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Pre-Obamacare, there were many plans that had a low annual cap. They were inexpensive,and popular for people who had enough money to afford insurance, because they were cheap.
      I'm sure most people, if they were smart enough to realize what they had, assumed that they would still get care after their insurance ran out. They were often right. Who picks up that bill, isn't that just about the stupidest and least consistent way to handle a single payer system? Because all those bills eventually come back to the Federal government, if nothing else, as tax rebates for indigent care.

    121. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by pnutjam · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The huge benefit of the US system, which is immaterial to most of us, is that you can cut inline if you have enough money. It doesn't matter how important you are, it just matters that your check clears.

    122. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Truly insightful.

    123. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In short, when I can tell why individual consumers
      Know best who should approve their drugs and who should treat their tumors;
      Why civilized existence in its intricate confusion
      Will be simple and straightforward, absent government intrusion;
      Why markets cannot err within the system I've described,
      Why poor folk won't be bullied and why rich folk won't be bribed,
      And why all vast inequities of power and position
      Will vanish when I wave my wand and utter "COMPETITION!"---

      He's so much more exciting than a common politician,
      Inequities will vanish when he hollers "Competition!"

    124. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Healthcare is not a commodity. Do you feel that it's truly interchangeable no matter the source? Would you object to being shipped to a hospital in rural Iowa if the ones in New York were to busy? Do you think outcomes are the same? They aren't.
      http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/559394

    125. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Almost all Christians have reformed. The remaining few are Amish, flds, Mennonites, and maybe a few more. None of these group are a major threat to order. The flds certainly caused some trouble, but it was mostly self contained or peanuts scale welfare fraud. I suppose there've been a couple abortion clinic incidents as well. Now let's compare that to San Bernardino, 9/11,. OSU, Orlando, Boston, etc. The appropriate response to Islam starts with a C and end with rusade

    126. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by clonehappy · · Score: 1

      Says the anti-human brainwashed globalist.

    127. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump won't build the gas chambers, he'll just joke about them and how he prefers skinny women.

    128. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1000 bucks says you're white and over socialized.

    129. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Less but more effective health care instead of costlier, inefficient insurance?

    130. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Something Obama made a serious effort to act on early in his presidency, he desperately tried to regulate that industry - make sure consumers are informed of what's in their food and encourage companies to improve the quality of what they sell.

      How so? Which specific attempts at reform did Republicans actually foil? And how did they do that "early in his presidency" when Congress was majority Democrats? How does "regulating the industry" fix the fact that the federal government has been telling Americans for decades to eat crappy foods? How are Republicans responsible for the fact that Obama did manage to change nutritional guidelines, from the crappy food pyramid to the equally crappy and useless "My Plate"?

    131. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by dwillden · · Score: 1

      Early in his Presidency? His party controlled both houses of Congress early in his presidency. Try again with the blame.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    132. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Altus · · Score: 1

      Yeah like how if you are rich here you can get that vaccine for lung cancer.... oh wait...

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    133. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More taxes and bigger government.

      But hey, if handing over your money to the government makes Pat comfortable with using whatever bathroom xe wants to use, then I guess you can do that with or without the Democrats in charge.

    134. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > Almost all Christians have reformed.

      They haven't reformed THAT much. This is why extremist pro-abortion rhetoric can still help sink a presidential candidate.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    135. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Couldn't afford it? Or chose not to spend the money on insurance as you saw yourself as healthy enough to not need it?
      If you think Healthcare was too expensive those past 20 years you haven't really compared what you would have paid versus what you have to pay now as premiums are spiking ever higher.

    136. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by jedidiah · · Score: 0

      How about the opportunity to spend your money on more immediate necessities rather insane insurance premiums.

      Remember, Obamacare only gives you the "privelege" of paying a lot for something you may never need.

      If you are normal person hysterically fixated on the possibility of medical bankruptcy, then the liberal media has already damaged you. Your mental problems are the fault of liberals, not republicans.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    137. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > Yes, I'm sure taking away subsides of millions of people will work great, they can stop paying $150 per month

      I don't know anyone like this and most of my family are the sorts of people that white knights like you claim to champion.

      I'm not sure this mythical "obamacare beneificiary" even exists. Are you capable of describing what such a person should look like?

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    138. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > Because no one's Insurance Company ever told them what doctor's were covered before Obamacare.

      Before Obamacare, the private insurance plans in my state were better. You could buy a proper insurance plan on the open market. Now those types of plans are gone. Can't buy them at any price.

      That means that the best facilities are out of your reach if you're on Obamacare and have cancer.

      I've actually had to go BACK to being on an employer provided plan because of Obamacare.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    139. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, then Kiefer Sutherland would become President.

    140. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by khallow · · Score: 1

      Bright future, if goosestepping whilst clutching a bible , is your thing.

      Remember, that's the TDS talking. Obama was lying just as shamelessly in the 2008 election as Trump (though perhaps not quite as poorly thought out), yet we didn't turn into goosestepping left-oriented fascists while clutching a copy of Dreams of my Father. I think we should care about real dangers rather than the imaginary ones.

    141. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      Religious whackjobs from different religions are still religious whackjobs. News at 11.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    142. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Can't we subsidise cabbages, or peas, or lettuce, or ... I don't know anything else healthy instead of maize which is essentially just sugar with almost no nutritional value?

      The right thing to do would be to unilaterally end all food subsidies in the US and open our borders to free trade. That would lower food prices, improve food quality, and be the best foreign aid program to developing countries we can provide.

    143. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A radiology nurse requires 30 hours of specialized radiology training.

    144. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is fun to blame Trump for all past, present, and future problems, but keep in mind that this decline in life expectancy happened during Obamacare.

    145. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm atheist and not really a big fan of abortion. I'm getting close to thinking it shouldn't be legal.

    146. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the systems in place throughout Europe are not "demonstrably inferior"

      Not now that the US has surrendered the US healthcare system to the collectivist, nanny-Statist, bureaucratic overlords, no.

      From at least the 1940s or earlier to the 1980s though, yes, they were markedly inferior to the US, or world leaders would have traveled to somewhere else besides the US for the most advanced healthcare in existence.

    147. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is why healthcare should be regulated like a utility. Many hospitals are actually non-profit corporations that were established by the Catholic Church with a mission to help people. Even these hospitals have spiraling costs. The hospitals themselves are not the cause of the out of control inflation in healthcare costs. There is almost limitless liability when people receive healthcare and the majority of effort and money spend is on limiting liability. To some extent this results in better outcomes for patients, but we probably spend 2X more than we need to achieve qualitatively the same standard of care. Insurance companies effect of preventing market signals from guiding spending priorities doesn't help, but insurance companies themselves don't really make that much profit, though their own costs are almost completely a dead weight loss, as is the cost of administering and complying with medicare. So much of these costs are shifted onto the provider and passed along to the consumer and their impact on cost hidden by the effect of insurance that there is nothing stopping government and insurance companies from do ever more to make healthcare more expensive to administer without making it better. We haven't even cracked into the subject of pharmaceuticals yet.

    148. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      You don't think doctors will become more risk averse in such a situation? Pay up front or get out. Sounds great.

    149. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      no, but you can get that lung transplant way easier. You can also get surgery quicker, more care during recover, etc.

    150. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am someone who believes that free markets are a wonderful way to distribute goods and services, but it really needs to be understood that Health Care, by definition, CANNOT be a free market. A number of requirements must be met for a market to be a functioning free market, and the Health Care market fails to meet them all:

      1) Participants must be able to choose freely to participate or not in the market. This is not the case in health care - if you need treatment, you don't have the freedom to no participate in the market. This is important because it privileges the seller with leverage beyond what a free market would allow.

      2) There must be options for the same product or service to be provided by more than one seller - ie, competition. This is not the case in health care for large swaths of the nation. This is important because it artificially limits supply, distorting pricing.

      3) Barriers to entry in the market must be low. This is CLEARLY not the case, given the expenses associated with becoming a doctor, as well as the necessary facilities, equipment, personnel and insurance required to establish a practice. This is important because it limits competition, distorting pricing.

      4) Information must be symmetrical between buyer and seller (ideally, it should be perfect, but reality isn't ideal). This is clearly not the case, given the amount of training and research required to be a doctor and the complexity of the workings of the human body. This is important because it disadvantages the buyer, who likely will not know whether a given treatment is necessary or effective.

      Given that the Health Care market cannot be free, it would be wise to stop looking to the market to solve the problem. It never will. This problem requires government intervention.

    151. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Let me guess, you live in one of the 19 states that declined to expand Medicare. You should put the blame where it belongs, with your shittty state government.
      Alternatively, if your in rural area, there might only be afew options for hospital and insurers. That's your beloved free market at work.

    152. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by coastwalker · · Score: 1

      It is a pity that this sort of reasoning is not available to Americans because their super rich have managed to use propaganda to fool the people into believing in Murcia, freedom and dog eat dog economics instead. Frankly if people are so stupid I say laugh at them dying, the world is better off without them. Just remember that they are the opposite of the actual free world. It is long past time that we stopped believing that American philosophy has anything useful to learn from.

      --
      Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
    153. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      I challenge you to do a true comparison of those plans. My guess is they were capped plans that would only last for a partial cancer treatment. You've off loaded your risk to the public, best case (for you).

      This also ignores the millions who could never buy care at any price.
      Let's pretend your plan actually manages to cover your cancer, you go into remission. You do realize that cancer usually re-occurs. Luckily for your insurance company, they can dump your expensive ass because you now are the proud owner of a pre-existing condition.

      What is desirable about that?

    154. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by LunaticTippy · · Score: 2

      You should read some history or foreign current affairs. Markets without food subsidies are chaotic with prices skyrocketing and plummeting based on crop yields. This drives farmers out of business and causes food to be unaffordable unpredictably.

      There is a strong social benefit to giving farmers and consumers some price stability.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    155. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Health insurance is almost NEVER going to be a sound financial investment. You're probably not going to get a solid ROI from those dollars...

      AND THAT'S A GOOD THING

      If medical insurance does become a good financial investment for you, that means you're fighting cancer or diabetes, or maybe you lost a leg or went blind from too much fappin

      We all need to accept this fundamental tenant of insurance. It's a bad deal for almost everyone to a very minor degree, because it's a good deal to those remaining few to an extreme degree.

    156. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Pre-obomacare, expensive insurance, high deductibles and co-pays, employer trying to force me onto a high-deductible plan, employer blames increases on insurance company greed.
      After obamacare, expensive insurance, high deductibles and co-pays, employer trying to force me onto a high-deductible plan, employer blames increases on obamacare.

    157. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by avandesande · · Score: 0

      That's always bothered me a lot that pro-abortion activists won't admit that abortion is at best in a very murky moral area and many times traumatic to women that have them.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    158. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course the people saying those things don't actually believe them. They're just forced to use such hyperbole because simply saying he's a nut job with no impulse control or value for human life doesn't catch anyone's attention anymore. Although if he starts a nuclear war, perhaps because some other country's leader made fun of the size his hands, maybe he will rack up a higher death course to than Hitler.

    159. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      Completely free means you are perfectly oblivious about who is paying for it.

      I'll give you a hint: there's a reason why the US far out paces Sweden's economy in every per capita metric:

      http://www.nationmaster.com/co...

      Americans don't think their paychecks will get mooched from so people can have freebie health insurance to the same extent the Swedish do.

      Cuba supposedly has free health care (although no one can access it). Pay for public health care is the reason why the nation is so poor. Same thing in Fiji where the unemployment rate is twice as high as the US.

    160. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm... You just did the math and showed that America increased less than 4 fold, then claimed she increased 8 fold.... How is that supposed to make sense?

    161. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      s/tenant/tenet/, you moron.

    162. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I assume that's on top of something else and they can't just drop out of HS and do it?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    163. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe he was wrong about that, but that doesn't change the fact that EVERYONE'S premiums in the US went up 2x to 10x (from $150 to $1500, indeed) when obamacare went into effect. Or else you get a plan with a $10,000 deductible. And for all the people who can't afford or don't want medical insurance, they have to pay the same amount in fines. And on top of that, the quality of medical treatment in America got worse, not better. Calling this law authoritarian would not be wrong. Calling this plan a disaster would not be wrong. The reason Europe has better Healthcare is not because they force everyone to pay into it. It's because they have a different attitude, their doctors are not undereducated pharmaceutical drug pushers, and they actually want you to get better instead of only wanting to make a lot of money.

    164. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guaranteeing that everyone gets healthcare is oppression in your mind?

      You probably get healthcare through your employer anyway. This has zero effect on you.

    165. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by rubypossum · · Score: 2

      Cash pay (where individual people "write the check") is the highest cost healthcare area and has the worst healthcare outcomes. Insurance companies (where someone else is paying) negotiate lower rates and know the value of individual procedures. Your average Joe on the other hand has no idea and will pay many times what an insurance company will for the same procedure.

      --
      I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. - Hunter S. Thompson
    166. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by rock_climbing_guy · · Score: 1
      What you say is partially true. I agree that there need to be protections against greedy actors who would take advantage of the desperate.

      However, when it comes to management of many conditions, I have found that cost and quality varies greatly from provider to provider and it can be extremely rewarding to shop around. For instance, I drive six hours each way to see a sleep specialist. Why? First of all, he doesn't treat me like a freak like some other doctors I've been to. Second, he obviously knows his stuff. Finally, his clinic will observe you in their sleep laboratory for two nights for less cost than one night at the local hospital here.

      I've heard from patients with the same condition in the UK who say that they have their assigned specialist and if they aren't satisfied with the care they receive, they are totally out of luck.

      --
      Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
    167. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by rock_climbing_guy · · Score: 1
      There is another solution you may not have heard of. You can become a member of a "Healthsharing ministry" (even if you aren't religious). I am a member of Liberty Healthshare myself. They will negotiate prices with providers on your behalf just like an insurance company. I've been a member for over a year now, and perhaps the best thing about it is that I've never had to read a letter from or talk on the phone with anyone from Blue Cross Blue Shield's "customer service".

      I also know of providers who will provide competitive prices for self-pay patients. Just to give an example, I saved $100 on an ear exam and wax impaction removal by calling around.

      --
      Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
    168. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by currently_awake · · Score: 2

      Countries with For Profit healthcare ALWAYS have a lower life expectancy, and they always spend more per capita. Maximizing for profit means higher cost and worse results.

    169. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How sad, if only healthcare could be guaranteed. I wonder if there is anywhere in the world that has tried this "free healthcare" thing and if it ever worked out for them?

    170. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obama derangement syndrome was real, but Trump derangement is an order of magnitude worse. In 2008 Obama just had to deal with occasional rumors about his birthplace and whatever remnants of open white supremacy still exist in the 21st century, not a year-long media campaign with open, unabashed attempts to portray him as a literal fascist and the second coming of Hitler.

      No, actually, they went to COURT and sued over it. It was years-long resistance, and completely delusional. Your representation does not capture the reality.

      On the other hand, Trump's been sued for things he ACTUALLY did to fuck others up.

      Every president gets compared to Hitler of course, but usually by random nutjobs, not major MSM outlets.

      LOL, stop lying Megyn Kelly.

      BTW that voice in your head right now saying "Well that's different, Trump really is Hitler"? That's the TDS talking.

      Yeah, it's not like we don't have plenty of complaints about Trump. That's the derangement.

      Then of course there is the constant effort to label Trump and everyone associated with him with every "-ism" they can think of. Freaking Ben Carson is a white supremacist; Steve Bannon is a nazi because Breitbart supports confederate flags and Bannon may or may not have said something weakly anti-semitic in a private conversation 20+ years ago; Trump voters are all KKKers because one attention whore neonazi threw a rally attended by more reporters than people and declared himself king of the alt-right.

      Nope. Ben Carson is a bad choice for ANY cabinet post, let alone the one they mysteriously gave him, it's funny, you're worried about some imaginary criticism of him as if nobody heard his other crazy shit. Steve Bannon? He is a fool, who buys into all the right-wing nonsense, or at least panders to it. That alone is an indictment. And no, it's not all of them. It's just enough of them that maybe we'd like to have seen Trump show some signs of resisting that very dangerous undercurrent, rather than refuse to admit knowing who David Duke is. Maybe you should stop making up phantom strawman criticisms you can tear down and face some real ones.

      It's like all the people whining that they can't criticize Obama "because he's black" when in reality, their problem was that they were a bunch of fools who couldn't resist the temptation to pretend their useless criticisms were somehow valid and accuse those dismissing them as somehow being twisted by race. Can't possibly be that there were legitimate arguments.

      (Oh yeah, and then there's this thread blaming him for shit happening before he's even in office. And wasn't Obamacare specifically supposed to do the opposite of things like this?)

      Trump's a billionaire, of course he's done shit before getting into office. Some of it is QUITE deplorable.

      And the Republicans are the ones who have fought the PPACA tooth and nail, so why would you think it was allowed to be effective when so many states even refused to expand Medicaid? It's like you're blaming somebody for not fixing the roof, when you've been taking away their tools.

    171. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by currently_awake · · Score: 2

      Subsidies only drive up prices if you don't impose cost controls, as ALL profitable businesses do. Eliminating health insurance will kill any poor person who gets seriously sick or injured, as they can't pay and can't borrow and hospitals won't treat for free. Desperate people do desperate things. If the choice is rob the rich or watch your kid die, most poor people will target the rich. If you want a stable country you must ensure the poor have just enough so they don't need to do that.

    172. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The dumbest thing Americans do is assume that consumers act rationally, never-mind should be expected to act rationally. Health care is an insurance product that you want everyone to be forced to pay into so that they take the quickest path to getting back to contributing towards the GDP. None of this should be up to "consumers" in so far as somebody who needs health care gets to shop around if they're sick, blind, alone, or otherwise disadvanted in a miriad of other ways - nor providers, who shouldn't be looking at competition and profit margins for the kind of work they're in.

      But I get it - you grew up with a hammer, and everything looks like a nail.

      Not really true.

      Healthcare is a number of very different products and services.
      Some elements of it like emergency room treatment, and preventative healthcare work well as a single payer government managed insurance system. Otehr aspects like non-critical accidental injury (say a broken arm) work well as optional private insurance (or payed out of pocket if uninsured), and some like long term treatment of chronic illness need to be pretty much out of pocket free market to keep them anything resembling efficient.

    173. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... it's the insurance and provider industries that are ...

      Correct. But it's the US hospitals who enable this and to a lesser extent, the insurance buyer. If hospitals turned around and demanded payment in cash, costs would drop and any health insurer who didn't offer instant reimbursement would be out of business. Americans supports a healthcare model that makes insurance companies richer and healthcare more expensive because disobeying the insurance companies makes people dead. Forcing everyone to face that death and destruction may be the only way to reform US healthcare.

      ... you're not going to shop around. you're not going to say wait, hold on. you're gonna say "OK".

      This is why most other countries have a single-buyer system: So vendors cannot use emotional blackmail, profiteering or direct marketing (eg. ask for Prozac) against their customers.

    174. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by roman_mir · · Score: 0

      No, I pay for my insurance individually but yes, government health care is oppression, not only 'in my mind', it is oppression objectively. It is oppression of an individual, who is forced to participate in it through taxation and who has no choice to opt out.

    175. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What we need is to do away with insurance completely, make people pay for their own health care.

      Excellent plan. So now when someone gets say cancer, unless they happen to have tens or possibly hundreds of thousands stashed away for cancer-day, they can either try to apply for a loan or go the way of walter white. Advanced health care is so expensive, there is no practical way for most people to pay it out of pocket ...

      I'll stop quoting there and posit that after a while the millions that are put in this position will stop taking it lying down. To the GP poster, fuck you. "Make people pay for their own health care"? Do you have any idea how much I already have to pay for other people's care and how little I get for me and my family? This is called "being a part of society", and the problem is not that we want all people to be healthy and happy. The problem is the system that rips us all off to benefit a few people that are already more wealthy than they know what to do with. At what point do you cross the line from productive citizen into sociopath?

      Even with a crushingly expensive AHA-plan, if anything serious happens within your family you are essentially financial toast. It hasn't happened to you yet? Well how fortunate for you, dick.

      I predict civil unrest. What else do you expect when you create a situation with so many people with nothing to lose?

    176. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... the free market is the solution to everything ...

      There's also the idea of 'small government' where all infrastructure must be privatized under the delusion that the free market is more effective, and the US government can't tell corporations what to do(*), even when the EPA, FDA, FCC, FTC, SEC and even the NTSB are charged with doing exactly that. Given that insurance is a basic need in the USA, it is ridiculous that a federal regulatory authority doesn't exist to protect consumers. (The FIO protects the states.) The government demanding the free market provide healthcare to everyone, via the (PP&) ACA, is a half-measure when insurers can double the up-front, co-payment.

      (*) Which is why a big military and militarized police are allowed in a 'small' government.

    177. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To this day, I've never understood why the richest country on the planet allows its citizens to be left to die or saddled with massive debt over medical issues when there are several existing models of providing first world level advanced care at a much cheaper cost per capita (in fact, every single existing medical system is cheaper than the US one)..

      Part of the reason is because the U.S. lacks a single payer system to negotiate prices from providers. The other single payer systems can benefit from medical technology at a cost that is less then it costs to develop that technology only because patients in the U.S. are pay to develop it for everyone. If the U.S. had a single payer system too, the cost for all the world's single payer systems would have to go up if we want to continue to develop medical technology at the same pace.

    178. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by rundgong · · Score: 1

      I am not arguing against socialized medicine. I think the "European way" is better.
      But there is an argument in that an army is a public good, whereas health care is not* a public good.
      If half the population pays for armed forces as protection from foreign invaders, the other half gets the benefit of not getting invaded without paying.
      This is not the case with health care as you can easily not treat people that get sick if they don't have insurance.
      Whether you are spending an appropriate amount on the military or not, is a different question...

      * Vaccinations is a health care exception that actually is a public good. When others get vaccinated you benefit from a lower risk of infection

    179. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by delt0r · · Score: 1

      But, you can't have poor people dying because they can't afford healthcare... and an individual cannot really negotiate with a large corporation - especially when the price for turning down their offer is to die.

      In fact from many americains i know. And how the bulk seem to vote and act. It seams the attitude is "fuck the poor, let em die". Even from some of the poor!

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    180. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by brewthatistrue · · Score: 1

      > I would also argue that a lot of people might choose alternatives like 'make me comfortable as long as possible' at those prices.

      End of life issues are definitely adding to rising costs.

      People seem to be moving away from the concept that death is inevitable, especially when making decisions on behalf of elderly loved ones who are unable to speak for themselves.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09...

      https://www.amazon.com/Knockin...

    181. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      Pre-Obamacare, there were many plans that had a low annual cap.

      That's because those rotten insurance companies didn't mandate their plans for males include pregnancy and breast exam coverage!

      The sexist bastages!

      Now, every male covered under Obamacare can rest easy knowing they're covered in case they get knocked-up. If it costs more that's OK because after all, all wealth is the property of the government and we're lucky they generously allow us to keep some of it for our own selfish needs like shelter, food, etc.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    182. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Markets without food subsidies are chaotic with prices skyrocketing and plummeting based on crop yields. This drives farmers out of business and causes food to be unaffordable unpredictably.

      That may have been the case in the 19th century, it's not the case in the 21st century: farmers today have numerous means of ensuring price stability, from private insurance to markets.

      Government subsidies are pure cronyism, protectionism, and vote buying, and they hurt consumers and developing nations. There is pretty much universal consensus about that among economists.

    183. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1
      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    184. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      That proves your stupidity. Those are core values of all religions Abraham. That would be Jews Christians and Muslims all have the same core beliefs and foster a us versus them attitude.
      Seriously Christians believe women should be fully covered though they replace burkas with bonnets.

      Sorry, you're proving your stupidity. They *were* core religious beliefs of Abraham religions. Both Jews and Christians have for the most part moved far from those. You want to show outside of the samll and I do mean very small minority who believe that they should even wear bonnets? I'll wait. Because that group is smaller then even moderate muslims.

      Please actually look up your Christian beliefs some day. You might be depressed to know that woman rights are secondary to men. That slaves are allowed from neighboring countries and a few other things these are not just Islamist but fundamental beliefs of all religions of Abraham. Since they all share parts of the same book it makes sense. Yes the Koran and the Bible borrow and are heavily influenced by the Torah and other Jewish teachings.

      Sorry, I don't *have* Christian beliefs. It might surprise you to know though, that in the West which uses several of the main tenets of Christian and Judaic beliefs as foundational law--this is untrue. Unlike your muslim ones(see how easily I did that?). But now we can get to the good part. Between Christiand and Muslims and Jews, which out of the three still openly advocates the keeping of slaves and holds under tenet of law that a womens worth is less then a man.

      If you answered anything other than Islam, you know far less of the world then you realize. FYI: Don't take a job in the UAE -- slavery is still legal there.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    185. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by fatwilbur · · Score: 1

      Yes, sad but true. What the majority of the world calls "triage", Americans call it "government death panels".

    186. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by No+Longer+an+AC · · Score: 1

      Indeed.

      According to this site:

      How do I Become a Radiology Nurse?

      The first step to becoming a radiology nurse is to become a nurse.

      The first step toward a career in radiology nursing is becoming a registered nurse. In order to do this, you must first earn your degree in nursing. Although an Associate of Science in Nursing is usually acceptable, most employers prefer applicants with higher degrees, such a Bachelor’s of Science in Nursing. After you’ve earned your degree, you will then need to pass the National council Licensure Examination for Registered Nurses.

      It goes on to say:

      To be eligible to take the Certified Radiology Nurse exam, however, you must be a registered nurse with 2,000 hours of experience in radiology and at least 30 hours of additional education in radiology.

      So, sure - it only takes 30 hours...after earning at least an Associate degree and spending a year working.

    187. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Why shouldn't males and females be in the same pool? All people should be in one pool for maximum efficiency. The only way insurance works is for healthy to subsidize non-healthy. That includes pregnant and non-pregnant.

    188. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Governments were invented for many purposes. Among them is, as per the US constitution: caring for the general welfare of society.
      Note its not in an ammendment. Its in the original document itself. So fundamentally a part of the purpose of government that it was obvious to the founding fathers. Not even freedom of thought,speech and religion was that fundamental !

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    189. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      Why shouldn't males and females be in the same pool? All people should be in one pool for maximum efficiency. The only way insurance works is for healthy to subsidize non-healthy. That includes pregnant and non-pregnant.

      Hey! You've got a point there!

      Who needs individual plans to fit individual needs and widely-varying individual financial resources? One size fits all, right?

      In the interests of state efficiency, we should also have everyone live in identical housing units, wear identical clothing, parse news sources down to one official source, eat identical meals, and have cars only made in one model and color!

      Brilliant!

      0_o

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    190. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Well if that is the GPs position I challenge him to come out and admit it and we can debate that argument. Its just dishonest otherwise.
      The biggest flaw in that argument of course is that the only thing between Bill Gates and a homeless guy with no money is one day of terible luck. And since you are not Bill Gates you need a lot less bad luck. Even if you are sociopathic enough to think that way you should be smart enough to figure out it makes sense to cover the poor in case you join them.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    191. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      How is that supposed to make sense?

      Trump logic. If it's little, make it YUGE!

    192. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      Abortion really depends on where you view the beginning of life. If you view it as starting with that first breath after exiting the birth canal then abortion is no big deal. I remember laying in bed with my wife during both her pregnancies and listening to our child's heart beat as I lay my head on her stomach. I could feel them move and kick. It's hard for me to think of a fetus as not human.

    193. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      The US is not a theocracy and really there is no way to make it one without removing the US Constitution. Just because a leader has religious beliefs does not mean that he will be able to force others to adopt them. You just make yourself seem silly with such crazy statements.

    194. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by delt0r · · Score: 1

      You would think so wouldn't you. But alas. Even phrased explicitly like that and no. Still think if you can't afford it, you should go suck it.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    195. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by coteriescavenger · · Score: 1

      Healthcare is not like government. The best known model to make government "competitive" is democracy, which still eventually tends towards corruption like any monopoly. For healthcare, better models are much easier to implement.

      If you're bleeding out, you're going to take the first ambulance and closest hospital you can get, of course. That doesn't change competitive environment. The vast majority of patients will have time to choose their provider. That affects quality and price across the board, and even helps the guy who doesn't get to choose.

      This goes much farther. In bustling free healthcare markets, more medical research is done. This makes it more likely we'll be able to actually start curing diseases in our lifetime, rather than just making "treat the "symptom" a free public right for another hundred years.

    196. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

      Are ya kiddin'? ObamaCare is what caused the decline.

      --
      There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
    197. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Sure, because that's exactly the same thing. Every place with single payer has adopted such and now looks like whoville.

    198. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, because that's exactly the same thing. Every place with single payer has adopted such and now looks like whoville.

      Maybe not, but they're almost all dependent on the US (or Russia, or China) for national defense because they can't afford a serious defense budget and a healthcare entitlement program. If the US continues down this path, it won't be able to afford to support NATO any longer, leaving much of Europe to Putin's gentle mercies and the Pacific Rim and Africa to China's whims.

      Good luck with that.

    199. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Not a Trumper, but I'm not seeing how that's my problem.
      Our policies contribute to this instability and the rest of the world is perfectly capable of defending themselves.

    200. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      meanwhile back in reality:
      -the economy is in its best shape, basically ever
      -the rate of premium increase is actually lower than it was pre-obamacare*

      (*yes, your individual plan may have gone up a lot, but when you've got a super plan for super cheap, that's called a market correction. the fact remains, that on the aggregate, while premiums have always increased year to year, the increases under obamacare were smaller than they were before obamacare)

      This is why you keep losing, by the way. The economy sucks for large parts of America. My home town has been devastated - it looks like a war zone. There are no jobs.

      Now, yes, the GDP still looks good. It's because more money has been going to federal workers and the top 10% (of which I'm included), so from our standpoint it looks great.

      If you have 100 people and each makes $100, everybody made $10,000 and they're happy. 5 years later 90 of the people made $60 while 10 of the people made $500. Wow, they're doing better, they all made $10,400! Yay!

      Wait.

      That's the situation we're in right now. I'm one of those 10. But I know a lot of the other 90, and their life sucks. Democrats like you (how'd I guess) tend to also be in the 10, so you have no idea what's going on in this country. You're being fed the aggregate number and believing it means everything is good and getting better. Or maybe you don't care, as in the case of Hillary. After all, those 90 people don't "donate" to the Clinton Foundation.

      As for health insurance, you're delusional. I used to have a policy for my family through the Farm Bureau here in TN. It cost us $250/month, which is lower than what we pay for my wife's group plan at her work. Those policies went away under Obamacare and were replaced with policies costing many times that much. That's not a market correction. It's because of the screwed up law that was made to not fully kick in until next year when Obama is out. Remember how the Democrats in congress exempted themselves from Obamacare? Doesn't make sense given how great it is, right?

      Wrong.

    201. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      Jeez, this progressive fantasy again? The Bushitler was allegedly intent on a Christian Theocracy for crissakes.

      You righteous indignation filled "the opposition is evil beyond words" folks really need to get out more, and learn new things to be freaked out about, it's hard to get people's attention with the same old tired arguments year after year.

      It's like screaming Nazi and Racist at everyone who you disagree with, it's so boring...

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
    202. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      We subsidize corn to prop up the Ethanol Industry and Arthur Daniels Midland Corporation who gives HUGE donations to... Democrats.

      The little farmers don't get squat. The big monopolistic evil corporations "agri-business" get the same sweet deal the Health Insurance companies got with the ACA - A guaranteed customer, for life, and if they don't pay the bill the government steps in and pays it for them.

      It's one of the biggest pay to play scams ever perpetrated in the name of the environment, ever, and it's hysterical when folks who talk about how we need the gummit to regulate evil corporations defend ethanol...

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
    203. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      Do you have any unbiased links? I'd be interested to learn more but a quick search yielded only clearly agenda-driven predetermined result "research" both pro and con. I'm basing my opinion on history and talking to farmers around the world, who clearly have a biased outlook.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    204. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Anybody who claims that they are "unbiased" is lying. I'm biased, you're biased, and so is everybody else. What you can do is listen to people's arguments and look at their data and draw your own conclusion.

      You might look at Wikipedia:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Even there, there doesn't seem to be a lot of arguments for agricultural subsidies and a lot of negative effects.

      Having said that, a good place to start is probably Econlib; they have a free market bias, but their papers and their speakers/authors are good (and reputable if you care about that):

      http://www.econlib.org/library...

      http://www.econlib.org/library...

      http://econlog.econlib.org/arc...

      The Heritage foundation, of course, has a "conservative bias", whatever that is, but they also make a good argument:

      http://www.heritage.org/resear...

      For the harm that farm subsidies cause to third world countries, you can listen to both representatives from those countries and even the Guardian:

      http://www.reuters.com/article...

      https://www.theguardian.com/su...

      Americans couldn't care less, however:

      http://econlog.econlib.org/arc...

      As for what farmers actually can do to mitigate risk, that's part of Farming 101:

      https://www.extension.purdue.e...

      It's such a big part of education because the dirty truth is that farm subsidies go to politically well connected groups, while most farmers actually must manage their risks themselves.

      I'm afraid I can't supply you with links that make arguments for agricultural subsidies that I consider credible.

    205. Re: Welcome to the Trump future... by avandesande · · Score: 1

      It's hubris to think that you can 'know' when life begins. Every line I have heard is completely arbitrary.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    206. Re:Welcome to the Trump future... by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      Thank you, looks like some good reading. One interesting article I found talks about three different approaches where Norway has high targeted subsidies that seem quite effective and New Zealand has no subsidies without harming the farming industry. The US clearly has a horrible approach, but politically difficult to remedy.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
  2. Re:Why, that's odd... by SirSlud · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This kind of arbitrary date picking cause and effect game also works great with the economy! Try it at home, kids!

    --
    "Old man yells at systemd"
  3. Re:Why, that's odd... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Hmmm...

    The morbidly predictable long-term effect of the seemingly unstoppable tidal wave of fatassery sweeping the nation, or President Black Man's fault?

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...

  4. defense versus health and human services. by nimbius · · Score: 5, Interesting

    80 Americans were killed in terrorist attacks from 2004 to 2013. the US defense budget in 2015 was 637 billion dollars. However, The US Health and Human Services budget for 2015 is 1.3 trillion dollars. How is it we as a nation can outspend ourselves as the largest military power in the world, and still be faced with a declining life expectency rate?

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Only 80 killed in 10 years, sounds like the defense was working for the most part.

      The problem with healthcare is there is no ceiling to the cost and the end result is always the same, everyone dies eventually. Most of the early deaths appear to be lifestyle related anyway. Any reasonable person should prefer money to be spent on preventing unnecessary deaths (like terrorism) and just take care of themselves better to handle the longevity part.

    2. Re:defense versus health and human services. by quenda · · Score: 5, Informative

      The only problem (compared to other countries) with US healthcare is its outrageous cost.
      There is zero evidence that healthcare quality is to blame for the slightly lower life expectancy.

      Looking at the data, things like obesity, motor vehicle accidents and gun violence are contributors.
      Perhaps the money could be better spent on roads and nutritional education than healthcare?

    3. Re:defense versus health and human services. by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      More than 80 Americans needed healthcare?

    4. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Kohath · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Government doesn't care about ordinary Americans. So government spending doesn't help ordinary Americans live longer, better lives. Only insiders benefit. The rest of us bear the burden.

    5. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Just because the age of death has gone down, doesn't mean it was caused by bad health care. In fact, the health care could be getting better, while people are getting increasingly obese. Hard to treat that :(

    6. Re: defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You as a nation suck, most of your "achievements" came about because FDR helped to start two wars in the late 1930s, one in Europe, one in Asia, and profit from them.

      The war gains helped the US last into the 70s, and the Reagan borrow-and spend, as well as the plunder of the former Communist states, carried you into the 1990s.

      Unfortunately, things have changed. The US lost Middle East wars of the 2000s, and that marked the beginning of your palpable fall.

      Think of them as your Boer wars. Which also managed to destroy the EU.

      Bow to China, the new world policeman.

    7. Re:defense versus health and human services. by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      What's killing us is our affluent lifestyle. We eat more and work less than ever. No exercise and years spent on the couch. It's not healthcare but bad habits that's killing us.

    8. Re:defense versus health and human services. by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      Do people even want to live a long time? For example, there was a dark period in history when women had the stress of worrying about their weight, now due to modern "fat acceptance" they can frolic like pigs in a sty. The government is coming up with schemes to produce artificial famine by raising food prices to trick them into living longer, but no one's heart is in it.

    9. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A reasonable person would reject spending on the prevention of statistically unlikely causes of death (like terrorism). A reasonable person has no problem spending on probable causes of early death, especially when such spending saves money long term (like literally every other Western public health system).

    10. Re:defense versus health and human services. by quax · · Score: 2

      I guess Cuba beating you in the achieved infant death rate is not evidence enough: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/...

    11. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Motherfucking+Shit · · Score: 5, Funny

      Only 80 killed in 10 years, sounds like the defense was working for the most part.

      I have a rock that keeps tigers away. It's 100% effective; I've never even seen a tiger. If you're interested, I'll sell it to you for the low, low price of $637 billion.

      --
      "BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
    12. Re: defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Do you announce that every time you enter a thread?

    13. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Kjella · · Score: 2

      The only problem (compared to other countries) with US healthcare is its outrageous cost. There is zero evidence that healthcare quality is to blame for the slightly lower life expectancy.

      I only have a few anecdotal stories to go by, but I know at least one with back problems and one with heart problems stuck where they got on-and-off health problems that lead to problems paying insurance that lead to the being effectively outside the system and any insurance that will take them on now excludes everything related to the their pre-existing condition. All they get is emergency care, when they should have had surgery. So I definitively think distribution of care is still some part of the lower life expectancy, those with lots of money get overtreated leading to good quality at excessive cost but those with no money get undertreated too.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    14. Re:defense versus health and human services. by quenda · · Score: 1

      The cost of US healthcare is certainly reducing people's quality of life.
      I'm just saying the reason for lower life expectancy in the US is not the quality of healthcare.
      Look at a demographic breakdown of health and life expectancy and you will find some surprises.

    15. Re:defense versus health and human services. by quax · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Then take Cuba out and look at all the other countries that beat you on this score. Are they all faking their numbers, too?

      And duly noted, that apparently drug addict prostitutes don't really count for you.

    16. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Xyrus · · Score: 1

      Same problem as the military. The military pays $800 for a hammer, we pay $800 for an aspirin.

      --
      ~X~
    17. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We also had the War on Fats, which changed our lifestyle and dramatically increased rates for inflammatory diseases and conditions like diabetes compared to the rest of the world. Thanks, AHA. That's why our healthcare costs outpace the rest of the world as well. It's our lifestyle which drives our costs up.

    18. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the hell ..

    19. Re: defense versus health and human services. by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      Let's not also forget that the US is the only country with drugs and prostitutes.

    20. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read a study once that said that the 9/11 attacks were responsible for 50k statistical deaths when stress, job loss and related factors were considered. Similar studies have claimed that the death rate from a nuclear bomb in NYC or DC would be dwarfed by those from secondary affects.

    21. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what I also learned from a professor. The US has the tendency to add all deaths to the statistics, even 'natural' stillborns (about 1% of the pregnancies). My west-European country doesn't add stillborns or even babies born alive but who die within hours or days due to birth defects to the statistics. Of course the life expectancy statistics give different results.

      In my country they try to let people believe that today's 70 year old people are like the 40 year old people in 1900, because of the lower life expectancy of that era. They use this lie to justify that people have to work longer before they retire. But what they don't tell us is that in 1900 Christianity still cared for all babies, even stillborns. What they also don't tell us is that in 1900 there were a lot of complications during birth. There was a rather high change that the baby or the mother died during child birth compared to today's standards. On top of that, women had more children on average which even increased the chance on early death.

      The reality however is that when you look at the statistics of 21+ year people, the life expectancy was similar. There were less suicides, less hearth diseases, less cancers, but more deaths from 'simple' diseases like the flue or bacterial infections. There is a reason why statistics are used in the way they are used today. In the US there is no universal health care. The people who like the freedom of not having to pay for free health care are often the kind of people who don't want a nanny government and aren't the ones who keep themselves busy with national statistics.

      Those who are in favour of universal healthcare do like a caring government and often have access to statistics gathered by that same government. They can use the statistics like they want and can add a few stillborns to skew the numbers.

      My country has universal healthcare, and the people at the top of that universal healthcare are also responsible for the statistics. It is in their best interests that life expectancy is higher for our system than for a non universal healthcare system like the US. So stillborns aren't people in my country. This also means that people with stillborns can't bury their baby with subsidies. They have to pay to full (inflated) price if they want a funeral. There is currently a discussion whether stillborn funerals should also receive subsidies, especially because the prices have quadrupled since cemeteries have been privatized.

      And there you see a conflict in interest. Privatized cemeteries. They start to ask money after only 5 years. The vast majority of people don't want to see the grave of their loved ones being removed after only 5 years and have to pay a yearly rent. Funerals have become extremely expensive, but because it's tax payer money people can still pay for the funeral. Expect when it is a body that doesn't fit in the statistics, like a stillborn.

      Local governments have been able to monetize a cemetery for one year (when they sold the ground). The society has lost one of the most fundamental aspects of human culture: a free cemetery, a silent place to mourn or 'talk with your dead loved ones'. Now even in death poor people have less right to mourn than rich people. This is awkward 'progress' is thanks to socialism. It is one of the evil aspects of universal healthcare. Universal healthcare is a nice system if it isn't abused by people. It is vulnerable for corruption. Selling cemeteries to private entities, it was proposed by a socialist party and put in action by many local governments who wanted to have a short term profit to promise gifts for electoral gains. This was necessary after the financial meltdown of 2008/2009 when the national bank of the communities collapsed.

      The only thing I can say is that universal health care is not something pure good. There are evil aspects. Progressive people don't like the past, they don't like the death, they like to forget them as fast as possible. Not all people mourn that way. Some people vis

    22. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Sique · · Score: 1

      But for some reasons, average body weight in the US is falling at the same time "fat acceptance" is spreading. That's probably pure coincidence, right?

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    23. Re: defense versus health and human services. by quax · · Score: 1

      Huh?

    24. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed they are. If you correct for the fact that other countries score by different criteria, the US does as well or better than nearly all of them, even including the druggies and illegals at the low end and immigrants/visitors who come to the US at the high end for medical care because they can afford it and wind up getting rolled up into the US statistics.

    25. Re: defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "the plunder of the former Communist states". That phrase alone shows you are a complete ignoramus. Soviet-led communism failed when they had already plundered all the countries they enslaved after WWII and wasted it on the usual socialist failures, flipping over to looking for handouts from the West. Fool.

    26. Re: defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      private cemeteries is socialism. after all, socialism is well known for its support for privatizing public spaces, turning formerly free services over to businesses to let bourgeois rentiers make a quick buck

    27. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Place+a+name+here · · Score: 1

      Helpful chart. The problem isn't primarily that US life expectancy is low (though it is somewhat lower than Europe's), but that there's so little bang for the buck.

    28. Re:defense versus health and human services. by quenda · · Score: 1

      I think "bang for buck" implies more connection between the two than there really is.
      How much of that spend is for non-life-threatening conditions?
      Or is in the last few months of life, making little or no difference to life expectancy?

    29. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many people have been shot to death in Chicago this year? Around 700.
      Yet your politicians won't even begin to tackle gun crime.
      The Police Chief of Chicago has gone on record saying that the NRA has gone out of its way to impede the police in their fight against illegal weapons.
      And you still think that terrorism is a bigger threat than the enemy within namely Guns.

      My neighbors used to say 'Why haven't you got a gun?'
      I'm glad that I now live in a society that does not feel the need to own firearms.
       

    30. Re:defense versus health and human services. by geekmux · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Looking at the data, things like obesity, motor vehicle accidents and gun violence are contributors.

      Resource management is a responsibility of our government, so death is by design and backed by policy.

      That said, you want to bring gun violence as a factor here, when over 60% of those deaths were caused by suicide. An often overlooked component of gun violence statistics to avoid funding mental health for some reason while making the 2nd Amendment a political talking point. Tobacco kills over 450,000 Americans every year, which makes motor vehicles look like a minor nuisance by comparison, but hey let's not ever talk about making tobacco illegal. After all, it helps feed the responsibility of resource management tremendously.

    31. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This would make more sense if ISIS had not become a thing.

    32. Re:defense versus health and human services. by houghi · · Score: 1

      And with high healthcare cost comes that people will go to the doctor only when they are really, really ill.
      Car comparison: instead of changing oil every X miles, you wait till the motor complains (long after the light goes on) and then you go. Might be in time, might be too late, but it will cost more than just an oil change.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    33. Re:defense versus health and human services. by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      In fact, the health care could be getting better, while people are getting increasingly obese. Hard to treat that :(

      Except it is, diet and exercise, fat removal, gastric band, the list goes on, being fat isn't like getting cancer. More often than not the person has done it to themselves, and it's reversible if only they can be bothered to put the effort in.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    34. Re:defense versus health and human services. by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      *isn't

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    35. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Healthcare to is a racket.

    36. Re: defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good health is expensive. You just waste so much of it on private health overhead, profits and inefficiencies. Not to mention the horrid results of the article like lower life span. That's some serious diagnosis right there yet America voted for Trump.

    37. Re: defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correction: Private industry doesn't care. Private health only cares about profit. How can you blame government for the private health systems horrible results? Talk about American logic. No wonder Trump got elected. He will make it worse by more private wealth and you'll blame government again.

    38. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Privatized cemeteries. They start to ask money after only 5 years

      Really?
      And people with loved ones buried there allowed this?
      Maybe you have a shit community

    39. Re:defense versus health and human services. by mjwx · · Score: 1

      80 Americans were killed in terrorist attacks from 2004 to 2013. the US defense budget in 2015 was 637 billion dollars. However, The US Health and Human Services budget for 2015 is 1.3 trillion dollars. How is it we as a nation can outspend ourselves as the largest military power in the world, and still be faced with a declining life expectency rate?

      Maybe it's your entire health care system that is broken.

      The UK spends far less on the NHS and even the Brits widely accept that that is one of the more expensive health care systems. They also admit that it's quite good (which it is).

      Then again, the UK govt fined Pfizer £83 million for overcharging the NHS by 2600% where as this kind of behaviour isn't just tolerated in the US, it's encouraged.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    40. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Absolutely, I don't go to the doctor when I'm sick. Can't afford it. I pay thousands a year for insurance, but if I go to the doctor I know that's another several hundred just to be maybe be told I need an antibiotic, or maybe be told I need to rest and drink fluids.

      How many cancers are not caught early because people don't go to the doctor for something they think is minor and so don't want to pay several hundred dollars for a single mundane visit. It's in the back of my mind each time I get sick, but I just can't afford to go. If I get an xray for something and a few tests I could end up with a $1000+ bill- and it might be for nothing.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    41. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

      How about stop subsidizing maize at ridiculously high rates. I don't like paying taxes to support super cheap big Macs that will make me and the rest of America fat.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    42. Re: defense versus health and human services. by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      My wife has had cancer twice. In the country I'm from she received wonderful treatment. In America she would be dying.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    43. Re:defense versus health and human services. by gtall · · Score: 1

      Apples and oranges. It all come back to fruit.

    44. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Patent+Lover · · Score: 1

      Where'd you get the 1.3 trillion number?

    45. Re: defense versus health and human services. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      I hope I can hold off getting cancer until after I retire (if I ever retire). I'll leave America and go home when I'm retire. I don't want to rely an American healthcare when I get old.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    46. Re: defense versus health and human services. by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

      Easy answer: Because, due to a lack of regulation, we have the most expensive Health Care industry on the planet.

      When you allow Big Pharma and Hospitals to essentially charge whatever they want, you end up with those ludicrous trillion dollar budgets to deal with.

      Regulate some common sense into that equation and that number will decrease exponentially.

    47. Re: defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He is required to announce his presence everywhere, at least that's what the judge ruled after the "incident".

    48. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gun deaths have been dropping for some decades. Motor vehicle accidents are up recently because people drive more when gas prices are low.

      What was striking to the authors of the study is that all the leading causes of death were up except cancer.

    49. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The infant death rate is one of the most misleading statistics ever conceived. The reason why is because of what's considered an infant death. The US has the strictest where if the baby takes so much as single breath outside of the womb and then dies it's considered an infant death. Many other countries say that if the baby doesn't live at least x minutes, it's considered still born and not considered an infant death. X in some countries is as much as 60.

    50. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually yes. Babies born too premature to survive in other countries are not sent to a NIC U, they don't try to save them and they don't count them against their infant mortality, instead categorizing them as miscarriage. In the US we waste tens of thousands of dollars trying to save them in a NIC U then count them against our infant mortality. It is therefore improper to compare US infant mortality numbers to those of other countries. Now, I'm not saying great-grandparent is a communist, but I will say something about damn lies.

    51. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That said, you want to bring gun violence as a factor here, when over 60% of those deaths were caused by suicide.,

      If you're talking about declining life expectancy, you probably should include deaths by suicide. Violence against self is still violence.

      An often overlooked component of gun violence statistics to avoid funding mental health for some reason while making the 2nd Amendment a political talking point.

      When 2nd amendment defenders start proposing actual bills to improve mental health funding and access, instead of talking about it to deflect from things like the gun show loophole or the straw buyer loophole, I'll take their worry about mental health seriously. Until then, this is just concern trolling.

      Tobacco kills over 450,000 Americans every year, which makes motor vehicles look like a minor nuisance by comparison, but hey let's not ever talk about making tobacco illegal.

      Probably because we're finally starting to learn the lessons of the drug war, which we never would have undertaken had we learned the lessons of prohibition. Making tobacco illegal would be a disaster, just like prohibition always is.

    52. Re:defense versus health and human services. by quax · · Score: 1

      You presume that other countries don't have to deal with immigration.

      Newsflash, Germany alone took in a million refugees last year.

      All your demonstrating here is your ability to nit-pick numbers and to rationalize why the US rulz.

    53. Re:defense versus health and human services. by quax · · Score: 2

      All of the other countries on that list are first world countries where non of such "miscarriage" statistics would apply.

      To say it politely AC: You are talking out of an orifice that ain't in your face, and make this shit up as you go along.

    54. Re:defense versus health and human services. by quax · · Score: 1

      To be clear I am talking about the sub-list of countries that beat the US on that score (and not by a small amount, top of the list has half the death rate).

    55. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People like you really piss me off.

      I've lost 150lbs. Do you have any idea what "put the effort in" means? No you don't, you fucking twat, because you never had to. We are finding more and more that gut biomes and the way they influence not only our digestion, but how our digestive systems communicate with our brain, are significant contributors to our weight.

      To get to where I am I have had to suffer so much that I can't even remember the last whole day I went without thinking of killing myself. People like you, you fucking scumbag, pushed me there. You made it so damn clear that the absolute worst thing that anyone in the world could possibly be was fat, and goddamn you, you human filth, my subconscious listened and now I'm here. My joints ache, I feel like I'm starving all the time, I had to abandon all my friends because social gatherings invariably involve food. I lock my wallet in my car when I go in to work to avoid the vending machines. I don't go anywhere on thanksgiving. Or Christmas. Or my birthday. And I still have difficulty maintaining my weight.

      So fuck you and your "can't be bothered to put the effort in" horseshit. I quite sincerely hope that you, and everyone like you, die a long, drawn out, painful death.

    56. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's reversible if only they can be bothered to put the effort in.

      Except that the more we understand about how the body gains and loses weight, the more clear it becomes that the body doesn't work like that. It's far easier to gain weight than it is to lose it, and it's far harder to keep weight off than it is to lose it in the first place. It's not simply a matter of "eat less and exercise, and you'll lose weight." Your body fights you - we are evolutionarily engineered so that our bodies see weight loss as a sign of crisis, so after a while, it takes more exercise and less food to maintain the same weight. Every time you recalibrate, your body reacts by recalibrating itself to keep the weight you're working your ass of to lose.

    57. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Looking at the data, things like obesity, motor vehicle accidents and gun violence are contributors.

      Resource management is a responsibility of our government, so death is by design and backed by policy.

      That said, you want to bring gun violence as a factor here, when over 60% of those deaths were caused by suicide. An often overlooked component of gun violence statistics to avoid funding mental health for some reason while making the 2nd Amendment a political talking point. Tobacco kills over 450,000 Americans every year, which makes motor vehicles look like a minor nuisance by comparison, but hey let's not ever talk about making tobacco illegal. After all, it helps feed the responsibility of resource management tremendously.

      There should be more mental health initiatives, but there's also decent evidence to suggest that restricting access to guns helps reduce suicides:

      * https://www.armedwithreason.com/643/
      * https://www.armedwithreason.com/tag/suicide/

      And generally speaking, most folks won't "find another way" to kill themselves (some do of course). Many suicides are impulsive choices done when the person is distraught, and anything that causes a delay in action (like the unavailability of a really effective means) would be preventative.

      Sure, let's like try making tobacco illegal, just like weed (mostly) currently is/was and like was attempted with alcohol in the past; see also cocaine, meth, etc.

      While some extreme folks are in favour of banning guns, most folks talking about restricting them. Just like tobacco, alcohol, and to a growing extent weed, are restricted and not banned.

    58. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      To sum up for the dim, the US has more problems witb sick babies for a variery of reasons, but if you are born a sick baby, pray it was in the US.

      As with any medical care, US medicine is the best. The whines are about access to it, a preferred problem to have if you ask me.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    59. Re:defense versus health and human services. by quax · · Score: 1

      Right, the US has the best in everything.

      Speak about an already-settled worldview.

      It should be blindingly obvious that medicine is far too large a field, to have all the best experts on everything concentrated in just one country.

      Sometimes even a country like Cuba, for instance, produces research in one area that is unmatched:

      http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/...

    60. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Rujiel · · Score: 1

      "Only 80 killed in 10 years, sounds like the defense was working for the most part."

      Yes, thank god for our failure of trillion-dollar F-35 program; thank god we've blown so much money indiscriminately killing people as to ensure a continued war on terror and our eternal presence in the middle east; thank god the Defense Department magically "lost" 6.5 TRILLION dollars. I feel safer already, do you?

      The line I quoted is what magical thinking looks like.

    61. Re: defense versus health and human services. by Magius_AR · · Score: 1

      Easy answer: Because, due to a lack of regulation, we have the most expensive Health Care industry on the planet.

      Umm, you do realize the US has one of the most heavily regulated healthcare industries in the entire world, right? Hell, our entire healthcare model (employer-provided healthcare + ACA) was pretty much designed by regulation (see below).

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Following the second world war, President Harry Truman called for universal health care as a part of his Fair Deal in 1949 but strong opposition stopped that part of the Fair Deal.[14][15] However, in 1946 the National Mental Health Act was passed, as was the Hospital Survey and Construction Act, or Hill-Burton Act. In 1951 the IRS declared group premiums paid by employers as a tax-deductible business expense,[6] which solidified the third-party insurance companies' place as primary providers of access to health care in the United States.

      Just because they're doing a pisspoor job regulating (for example, by focusing on giving people insurance instead of cost controls on healthcare) doesn't make the market unregulated. It just makes it regulated by morons.

    62. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can spend whatever you want, but if people choose to eat salty, fatty, sugary crap and sit on their arses all day the obesity-related health issues will eat whatever you spend and then some.

      TL;DR version. Because people are stupid or have a death wish.

    63. Re:defense versus health and human services. by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Road deaths have been falling for decades, Since 1972, deaths per capita have halved and deaths per mile quartered. This is not a valid area for extraordinary efforts.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    64. Re:defense versus health and human services. by quenda · · Score: 1

      The US still has twice as many road deaths per capita as other developed countries, which is more relevant to lower life expectancy than quality of healthcare.
      The biggest reason by the way seems to be the large number of km, sorry, miles driven. So maybe better urban planning and commuter rail infrastructure would help?

    65. Re:defense versus health and human services. by SNRatio · · Score: 1

      Road deaths have been falling for decades, Since 1972, deaths per capita have halved and deaths per mile quartered. This is not a valid area for extraordinary efforts.

      Actually that indicates it absolutely is a valid area for extraordinary efforts: it's an area where increased investments in safety consistently result in ... more safety. Traffic deaths are now on the rise. Finding a way to get people to ignore their phones while driving would probably have a good ROI too.

    66. Re: defense versus health and human services. by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      I was being sarcastic. A lot of these idiots think that other countries don't have a problem with drugs and crime.

    67. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really wished you would have cited your numbers I find it hard to believe.

    68. Re: defense versus health and human services. by quax · · Score: 1

      Thanks for clarifying. There's so much stupidity online it's hard to tell anymore.

    69. Re:defense versus health and human services. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit, the quality of US healthcare is an abomination. People leave and go elsewhere for medical care, it's a huge industry. How about taking a look at how the drug industry has corrupted the whole thing and dealing with that for starters.

    70. Re:defense versus health and human services. by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      How is it we as a nation can outspend ourselves as the largest military power in the world, and still be faced with a declining life expectency rate?

      Sounds as if the US government has more accountants in it's people-killing arm than in it's people-saving arm and is therefore more efficient. So you need to get rid of some useless people - doctors or nurses, perhaps - and replace them with accountants in the people-saving business. Simples.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  5. Yes, Obamacare helped ruin health insurance... by Nova+Express · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    ...in order to force taxpayer-funded abortions on the American public.

    You may think that's an exaggeration, but look how tenaciously Nancy Pelosi insisted on the provision during the debate over Obamacare, forcing Stupak's block of flippers to cave rather than give it up.

    Look how fervently the Obama Administration insisted that the Little Sister of the Poor must pay for abortifacients rather than come to an accommodation as required by the law.

    ObamaCare was meant to fail as a means of forcing the full socialization of American medicine, true. But it was also designed as an instrument of the culture war, and one Democrats were determined to defend no matter how many legislators lost their seats over it.

    And as for the current state of ObamaCare, take a look here.

    --
    Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)

    http://www.lawrenceperson.com/

    1. Re:Yes, Obamacare helped ruin health insurance... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In reality, however, we see that abortions are dropping.

      The Little Sisters of the Poor were just picking a legal fight rather than admit they used the coverage let doing more to actually help the poor who they are supposed to serve. Apparently filling out paperwork is so onerous, they'd rather pay a bunch of lawyers. To waste time. Even the Supreme Court punted.

      The GOP was given everything they had wanted in healthcare reform, yet refused to get behind their own plan. Now they're stuck with years of repeal calls, but they can't afford to deliver. And they have nothing to counter offer.

    2. Re:Yes, Obamacare helped ruin health insurance... by raind · · Score: 1, Insightful

      What kind of fake news are you smoking? healthgrad.com ? lol
      of course there screwed...

      --
      Get up!
    3. Re:Yes, Obamacare helped ruin health insurance... by whoever57 · · Score: 2

      Look how fervently the Obama Administration insisted that the Little Sister of the Poor must pay for abortifacients [battleswarmblog.com] rather than come to an accommodation as required by the law.

      Linking to your own blog does not provide any support for the false narrative that you are pushing.

      The question was not about the Sisters paying for abortions. It was about the Sisters filling in a form stating that they would not provide cover for abortions, so that the government could pay for those abortions.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    4. Re:Yes, Obamacare helped ruin health insurance... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      There is no such thing as an abortifacient. No abortifacient birth control has been on sale in decades. And the pill was NEVER one.

      If anything the pill PREVENTS abortions. Any sexually active women will naturally abort about 2 out of 3 fertilized eggs - only one in three fertilizations lead to successfull implantation. By preventing the eggs being released in the first place - the pill actually prevents these natural abortions from happening.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    5. Re:Yes, Obamacare helped ruin health insurance... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There is no such thing as an abortifacient"

      Yes there is.

      Your other comment is wrong as well.

      The pill prevents the fertilized egg from implanting. So it depends on how long the egg has to implant before you then call it an abortion. Maybe it's not medically correct, but I can see how socially people would regard the pill as providing continuous instant abortions to their fertilized eggs.

      Now, some women, once they take the pill for a while stop ovulating. Those women are not going to be constantly aborting their fertilized eggs.

    6. Re:Yes, Obamacare helped ruin health insurance... by dywolf · · Score: 1

      reality:
      -there are no taxpayer funded abortions
      -there is no provision for it in the ACA
      -abortions are dropping, in direct relation to increased availability of contraception, and better education
      -the LSofP case involves contraception, not abortificants
      -the ACA was not only not meant to fail, but it has succeeded rather well, within its limited abilities. the only better reform that could have happened would have been the public option, aka, Medicare for All, aka single payer.
      -premiums increased before Obamacare too. the difference is, they are increasing more slowly now, than they did before (so once again: Obamacare is working)
      -you're clueless, as usual

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    7. Re:Yes, Obamacare helped ruin health insurance... by dywolf · · Score: 1

      Biology lesson: by your definition, women "abort" their eggs every month when they menstruate.
      that makes you, and anyone who uses that definition, ignorant morons.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    8. Re:Yes, Obamacare helped ruin health insurance... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus Christ man, reading comprehension, do you fail it?

      "Maybe it's not medically correct..."

    9. Re:Yes, Obamacare helped ruin health insurance... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just in case any other retards are floating around, this is how it all works.

      The eggs come out of the ovaries and are fertilized in the Fallopian tube, they start developing immediately and float down the tube and try to implant in the uterus, 6-12 days later. At the time of implantation the blastocyst is a little ball of cells. If the woman is taking the pill then the pill interferes with the process and stops the fertilized egg from implanting. Thus, the blastocyst passes straight through and out.

      That's what actually happens.

      In terms of terminology (which is what the other fuckers on here are arguing about, which, btw, is the worst type of argument...) this would not technically be called an "abortion" since the pregnancy never technically started. Another way to look at this is that the woman miscarries the blastocyst immediately, but again, it's not technically true, since you can't technically miscarry unless pregnant, and the pregnancy hasn't started until the blastocyst implants in the uterus.

      Any medicos want to clear up the terminology? Not that I fucking care...

    10. Re:Yes, Obamacare helped ruin health insurance... by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      How Republicans want to end Abortion:
      outlaw abortion, punish only providers

      Effect:
      Abortion available to wealthy under different names
      black market abortions mean increased risk for poor
      marginal decrease in actual abortions, large decrease in abortions on paper

      How Democrats want to end Abortion:
      Decrease povert, increase education, increase access to birth control

      Effect:
      actual decrease in abortions

  6. Re:Why, that's odd... by skids · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Considering one of the major contributers is "unintentional injury deaths, such as overdoses and car accidents, increased by 6.7 percent" much of the blame likely sits on the pain pill problem. Cancer deaths actually went down, so health care is working for that disease. Alzheimers deaths rose a lot... but they say this is due to the medical establishment just recategorizing that as a cause of death... woner what those were usually listed under.

    The ars article has some useful charts, if, unlike 3 out of 5 of trump supporters, you know how to read them.

  7. Four words.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    High
    Fructose
    Corn
    Syrup

    Follow the money.....

  8. Obama care is the reason by aberglas · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Socializing medicine has been a disaster. It is killing people. Under Obama care faceless bureaucrats will decide who lives and who lives and who dies. All freedoms will be curtailed. And the constitution will be burned.

    Thank God we have Trump to turn thing around. He truly cares for the forgotten man. And if the doctors fail, he will cure the sick by blessing them.

    1. Re:Obama care is the reason by bigfinger76 · · Score: 1

      When did we socialize medicine?

    2. Re:Obama care is the reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's see

      Socialised medicine is in Australia, UK and Canada. Life expectancy is 82.8 years, 81.2 years and 82.2 years respectively.

    3. Re:Obama care is the reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Socializing medicine has been a disaster. It is killing people. Under Obama care faceless bureaucrats will decide who lives and who lives and who dies. All freedoms will be curtailed. And the constitution will be burned.

      Thank God we have Trump to turn thing around. He truly cares for the forgotten man. And if the doctors fail, he will cure the sick by blessing them.

      * USA never socialized healthcare, not even close

      * Obama "will?" You are aware he's leaving office in about a month, yes?

      * Last time a president knowingly killed people through healthcare was Ronald Reagan

      * Civil rights and freedoms largely increased under Obama's presidency

      * Constitution is still intact after 8 years

      * Trump on "the forgotten" man: “How smart can they be? They're morons.” (to Maureen Dowd, 1999)

      * No, that's pence.

    4. Re:Obama care is the reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, I would have thought that the blessing the sick line would have given the post away as satire.

      Mind you, I reckon a large proportion of Trump supporters probably believe that he can improve health outcomes by blessing.

    5. Re:Obama care is the reason by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 1

      Under Obama care faceless bureaucrats will decide who lives and who lives and who dies.

      Who decides who lives and dies under Trump care? Maybe it can be a reality show.

    6. Re:Obama care is the reason by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

      We did it without telling anyone. About half of all healthcare spending comes from Governments. Another 20% is from businesses, and that is overwhelmingly regulated and required by Governments (meaning - they aren't directly spending it but forcing it to be spent). So about 30% is left for consumers. Meaning - the vast majority of healthcare spending is driven by Government. That's a socialized system.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    7. Re: Obama care is the reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Nope. You're just confused because you think "paying for" and "actually running" are the same thing.

      That's not entirely your own fault though, they keep naming things poorly. It's even called healthcare reform when the vast majority of it was insurance company regulations.

    8. Re:Obama care is the reason by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Under Obama care faceless bureaucrats will decide who lives and who lives and who dies.

      Who decides who lives and dies under Trump care? Maybe it can be a reality show.

      Yeah man, set up some premium rate phonelines and then they can use the profits from that to fund the next war then give the whole pay per view thing another shot.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    9. Re:Obama care is the reason by silentcoder · · Score: 5, Funny

      Trump could piss in a jar, say "Drink my urine to absorb my business power" and his supporters would be lining up to buy it.

      And when he gets sued after somebody discovered he stopped pissing in jars after the first one and the rest were just really expensive lemonade they'll call the judge biased against urolagnia.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    10. Re:Obama care is the reason by dywolf · · Score: 1

      once again you prove that definitions are hard for you.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    11. Re:Obama care is the reason by dywolf · · Score: 1

      cant tell if satire, or moron.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    12. Re:Obama care is the reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lemonade? Nah, he'll promise illegal immigrants immunity if they piss in the jars for him. Once they do, he'll kick them out anyway,

    13. Re: Obama care is the reason by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      He who spends the gold calls the tune...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    14. Re:Obama care is the reason by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Explain, please, how the dominant force in spending (which also has the ability to set laws and regulations about how that spending is used and what must be done to get that spending) does not significantly influence and shape the direction of healthcare. And given that dominant force is Government, please explain how healthcare is not effectively socialist (controlled by the masses as a whole - Government).

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    15. Re:Obama care is the reason by spitzak · · Score: 1

      It's satire, stupid

    16. Re:Obama care is the reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump could piss in a jar, say "Drink my urine to absorb my business power" and his supporters would be lining up to buy it.

      And when he gets sued after somebody discovered he stopped pissing in jars after the first one and the rest were just really expensive lemonade they'll call the judge biased against urolagnia.

      This is +5 insightful? You don't understand trump voters and you never will. You are not smarter than trump voters, you are just blind to your own ignorance and arrogance.

    17. Re:Obama care is the reason by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      Getting free money from government is not the same as government control. Just ask the banks. The government is not setting laws or regulating the medical industry. They have the power but chose not to use it.

    18. Re:Obama care is the reason by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Maybe true for banks, but for health care? 109+ new regulations alone with 11 million words. That's a lot of regulations and restrictions that have been implemented in the last few years...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    19. Re: Obama care is the reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Relying on banal platitudes?

      Nope, reality shows us that there's always somebody who will sing you a song to fleece you from your gold.

      Like the one about the Monorail. Or the patent medicine.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine_show

      Sorry, but we have oligarchy, not socialism, and the patricians have voted themselves the largesse of the treasury.

    20. Re:Obama care is the reason by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

      Cuba 79.1
      USA 79.0
      World Average 71.0

      Conclusion. Socialized medicine does just fine. And you don't have to continually worry that you might go bankrupt if you get sick.
      Sounds like a good deal.

      --

      Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  9. It's all those abortions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stop abortions and the stats will go up! Republicans can and will fix this for Americans, by hook or by crook.

  10. Full 2015 stats aren't out yet by Solandri · · Score: 4, Insightful

    TFA links to some summaries, but some of the categories (particular deaths due to accidents) are aggravatingly unspecific. Alzheimer's and accidents (unintentional injuries) had the largest year-over-year increases, at +4.0 and +2.7 deaths per 100,000. The other causes were all +1.5 or less. The increase in these two exceeded the increases in all the other top-10 combined.

    I'm really curious to see what the breakdown for unintentional injury deaths looks like for 2015. We're in the middle of a prescription painkiller addiction epidemic which is going largely unreported by the media. Two years ago, overdoses displaced motor vehicle accidents as the leading cause of accidental death - a position it had held for over a half century. This year we lost more famous people to overdoses than to gun violence, even though the media spent a vastly disproportionate amount of time focusing on the latter. The day of the UCLA shooting (1 murder, 1 suicide), there was a synthetic drug poisoning incident at a concert in Florida which killed 2 and sent 60 to the hospital. But the media concentrated almost entirely on the UCLA shooting.

    1. Re:Full 2015 stats aren't out yet by skids · · Score: 1

      See the ars article for better charts. Note the age-adjusted ones show the impact on the death rate, so they essentially count lifetime lost, not lives. I agree, pills are a big part of this. And probably stress, given the increase in heart disease and strokes.

    2. Re:Full 2015 stats aren't out yet by RuffMasterD · · Score: 1

      What do you mean by "some of the categories (particular deaths due to accidents) are aggravatingly unspecific"? The US would have coded cause of death with ICD9 codes in 2014. ICD9 codes with three leading digits in the range 800 to 999 are broadly classified as "injury and poisoning". Burns are covered by codes in the range 940 to 949 for example, with 941 meaning "Burn of face head and neck". There are sub-codes too, in case you need to be more specific. For example, 941.5 means "Deep necrosis of underlying tissues due to burn (deep third degree) of face head and neck with loss of a body part", and 941.55 means "Deep necrosis of underlying tissues [deep third degree] with loss of a body part, of nose (septum)". If that is not specific enough, then the US just introduced ICD10, which increases the number of codable medical conditions from 14,000 to 70,000. People get multiple codes of course, to cover every detail of an event.

      Also, overdoses usually harm nobody other than themselves. Nobody forced these people to take more than they should. Mass shootings on the other hand usually kill a bunch of people who had no choice in the matter. If I put one round in a revolver, put it to my head, spin the barrel, and blow my brains out, that is not newsworthy. But if I do the same to you, then people want to know so they can avoid me.

      --
      Human Rights, Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence
    3. Re:Full 2015 stats aren't out yet by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      The right wing bias of the media at work once more. Strange how having the media owned and run by the 1% crowd results in hiding stories that undermine business.

  11. Not as bad as it sounds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looking at the individual cases, I don't think it is as bad as it sounds.

    Cancer deaths, the second most common cause, went down.
    Hearth diseases went up, which is troubling, but in a lot of cases caused by bad life choices.
    Another is unintentional injuries. Which I don't think has much to do with the healthcare system, and probably in part also due to higher average age.
    The other causes which took a bigger share are "old age" diseases.

    A curious one to me is the increasing infant deaths due to congenital malformations. Any ideas about what is causing this?

    1. Re:Not as bad as it sounds by quantaman · · Score: 1

      Looking at the individual cases, I don't think it is as bad as it sounds.

      Cancer deaths, the second most common cause, went down.
      Hearth diseases went up, which is troubling, but in a lot of cases caused by bad life choices.
      Another is unintentional injuries. Which I don't think has much to do with the healthcare system, and probably in part also due to higher average age.
      The other causes which took a bigger share are "old age" diseases.

      A curious one to me is the increasing infant deaths due to congenital malformations. Any ideas about what is causing this?

      None of the differences in causes of infant deaths were statistically significant (except for unintentional injuries) so I wouldn't put too much weight in it.

      As for adults, most of those were statistically significant, and there seems to be a pattern.

      Causes of death that are primarily health care oriented were either static or decreased (cancer).

      Causes of death that are short term lifestyle oriented (injuries, suicide, and probably a lot of the chronic conditions) increased.

      So it looks like there were a lot of people not taking as good care of themselves in 2015 and they were more vulnerable to several causes of death as a result.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    2. Re:Not as bad as it sounds by sabbede · · Score: 1

      It's also such a small change that I have to wonder if it's relevant and not washed out by margins of error.

  12. Caused by liberals, Obama, democrats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are afraid of work, which has led to extreme sedentary lifestyles. The only benefit of UBI is that they would drop like flies, just like the only benefit of islam is liberals flying off rooftops.

  13. 2016 was shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One year could be an anomaly you can expect anomalies every now and then you just hope it doesn't point to a more long term trend.

  14. Re: Fake news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who would pay for Slashdot? There's like, 100 regulars, if that. I see the same people posting in every article and most articles canymt even get to 100 comments.

    It only seems like they're paid for because the editors hate Trump.

  15. Live expectancy only good for rich and bourgeois by Uberbah · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For the plebs, it's been dropping. Reason #2458 why raising the age for SS or Medicare is fascist BS.

  16. Re:Live expectancy only good for rich and bourgeoi by hyades1 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If they think it's bad now, just wait 'til Herr Trump gets those immigrant "recreation camps" open with the "community showers".

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  17. idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    All you idiots blaming this tiny decrease on the ACA should look at what happened in Russia. After the fall of the Soviet Union, the Russian system went from fully public to private, and life expectancy plummeted from numbers similar to those in most developed countries to 3rd world levels (i.e. as low as 50 years for men)! It was only after your hero Putin RE-SOCIALIZED the Russian medical system in the early 2000's that Russian life expectancy has crept back up into the 70s.

    1. Re:idiots by quantaman · · Score: 2

      All you idiots blaming this tiny decrease on the ACA should look at what happened in Russia. After the fall of the Soviet Union, the Russian system went from fully public to private, and life expectancy plummeted from numbers similar to those in most developed countries to 3rd world levels (i.e. as low as 50 years for men)! It was only after your hero Putin RE-SOCIALIZED the Russian medical system in the early 2000's that Russian life expectancy has crept back up into the 70s.

      As big a fan I am of public health care I don't think you can attribute the changes in Russian mortality to their health care system.

      The fall of the USSR was awful for Russia, they went from global superpower to a country that was literally falling apart. This created some really awful social issues that were probably a major cause for the increase in death rates.

      Putin, aside from turning the nation into a kleptocracy, did restore a lot of social stability. That's probably the cause for their falling mortality rates.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    2. Re:idiots by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Much of Europe has private insurance systems and longer life expectancies than the US.

      On the other hand, half of US medical spending is through the government, in the form of Medicare/Medicaid; and those government systems are also responsible for the elderly.

      So, it is absolutely ludicrous to argue that the problem with the US health care system is that it isn't a public system (because it already is where it really matters), or that public systems work better.

    3. Re:idiots by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      or that public systems work better.

      Most of them do. Come to think of it, most private systems work better too. The problem is that the regulations are not centred on making the patients better, they're centred on making a nice tidy profit for everyone other than the patient.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    4. Re:idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If instead of using the supplied medical statistics you look at other numbers such as cemetery plots listed, you find that the rates really did not change very much and that the usual government controlled media "adjustments" were made under the Soviets and under Putin. Only in the brief interregnum before the dictatorial hegemony was restored did unwashed data become briefly available. Short answer: they lied like most centrally controlled governments do.

    5. Re:idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still, your life expectancy sucks in comparison to other countries you'd like to be compared with (and certainly in comparison to the US), so your 'hero' Putin still has quite some work to do... like preventing his citizens from drinking themselves to death out of frustration that they cannot change the corrupt system anyway, and if they'd try they'd land in a prison in Siberia.

    6. Re:idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, alcoholism was a big part of it, but so was, wait for it, access to health care. Which is what re-socialization of the Russian healthcare system provided. Even after half of the good doctors fled to the west, the mere availability of affordable healthcare to all drastically increased life expectancy. And note that this is a populaiton where maybe 1% of the people could afford the kind of health care premiums regularly paid by Americans.

    7. Re:idiots by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      The problem is that the regulations are not centred on making the patients better, they're centred on making a nice tidy profit for everyone other than the patient.

      Absolutely right: the AMA, pharmaceutical lobbies, and the FDA conspire to limit the supply of healthcare, and hence the prices go up. The fix to that is to remove those limits on the supply, i.e., actually move US health care towards a free market.

    8. Re:idiots by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      This [bit.ly] is facism. Trump fits [bit.ly].

      Sadly, Eco's analysis focuses on superficial resemblances and symbolism, not surprising given that he wasn't a political scientist but an academic concerned with symbols. You need to analyze political ideology in terms of actual politics, not what symbols people use to communicate them: Indians aren't fascists just because they use a lot of Swastikas.

      As a political movement, fascism is characterized by "third position economics" and a rejection of both capitalism and socialism; opposition to investment income; a categorization of the population based on racial criteria; policy determined by intellectual elites for the benefit of all. It's Democrats, not Republicans, that have a propensity for this (which is why I left the Democratic party). In fact, Clinton's political program overlapped strongly with the NSDAP's 25 Point Program. Note also that Hitler and Mussolini started out as poor left-leaning intellectuals

      Trump's preference for capitalism, lower taxes, privatization of healthcare, privatization of education, reduction of government regulation, limits on minimum wage, and general anti-intellectualism in government make him pretty much the exact opposite of what fascists traditionally stand for and run on. And unlike Hillary, Trump started out as a wealthy capitalist, again, the opposite of where fascist leaders come from.

    9. Re:idiots by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      The fix to that is to remove those limits on the supply, i.e., actually move US health care towards a free market.

      Not really. Free markets are only helpful when the market is efficient. It's very hard to get an efficient market with healthcare. The best insurance based systems simply regulate the ever living crap out of everything so that the companies can't conspire to hurt patients easily.

      The thing is there are lots of existing examples around the world you can look at if you insist on an insurance based system (for example Germany and Switzerland) that work much better.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    10. Re:idiots by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Free markets are only helpful when the market is efficient.

      Really? Can you justify that bit of economic wisdom? What exactly do you think is demonstrably more "helpful" than a not perfectly efficient market?

      It's very hard to get an efficient market with healthcare

      Why would it be any harder than for barbers or plumbers?

      The thing is there are lots of existing examples around the world you can look at if you insist on an insurance based system (for example Germany and Switzerland) that work much better.

      Do you have experience with those health care systems? In what way do you believe they "work better"?

      And why do you, as a Brit, keep insisting on chiming in about the US health care system? What is it to you?

    11. Re:idiots by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Really?

      Yes.

      Can you justify that bit of economic wisdom?

      Definition of efficient market: the price reflects all available information.

      If it turns out a drug someone is selling ostensibly to cure you has horrendous, undocumented side effects, a bunch of people are going to pay for it without knowing until the information is out there. That is not efficient.

      What exactly do you think is demonstrably more "helpful" than a not perfectly efficient market?

      A regulated market.

      Do you have experience with those health care systems? In what way do you believe they "work better"?

      Look at the healthcare costs per capita in various countries (it's on wikipedia). Then look at various outcomes. There's a lot of variation up and down, but Germany beats the US in many measures (and loses in many others), but more or less they're pretty close. And Germans pay alightly over half what is paid in the US per capita.

      So works better: similar outcomes for a lot less money.

      And why do you, as a Brit, keep insisting on chiming in about the US health care system?

      Because people keep saying stupid, speculative shit about the magic of markets when there are actual real examples you can look to.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    12. Re:idiots by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      You said:

      Free markets are only helpful when the market is efficient.

      Your "justification" is a completely non-sequitur:

      Definition of efficient market: the price reflects all available information.

      Sorry, try again.

    13. Re:idiots by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Look at the healthcare costs per capita in various countries (it's on wikipedia). Then look at various outcomes. There's a lot of variation up and down, but Germany beats the US in many measures (and loses in many others), but more or less they're pretty close. And Germans pay alightly over half what is paid in the US per capita.

      Well, and guess what? Germany and Switzerland's health care systems are more free market oriented and have greater inequality than the US health care system. Germany has also exempted large parts of its medical care system from labor regulations, and it doesn't cover a lot of drugs or procedures that are covered in the US, and insurance generally only covers generic drugs. Incidentally, abortion is also illegal after the first trimester and isn't covered except if the life of the mother is at risk; and birth control isn't covered either. Switzerland mandates offering minimal private coverage and leaves the rest up to the market.

      I think it would be great if the US adopted the German or Swiss system because it would be much more free market than the current US system; among other things, that would mean getting rid of Medicare and Medicaid, which make up about half of US health care spending.

    14. Re:idiots by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      >>> all available information
      Available to whom? From whom? At what cost?
      All available information on aspirin is more than a person could read in a lifetime.

      The claim that a certain quantity and quality of information is necessary for capitalism to work is a trap that the enemies of capitalism have been advancing for centuries. It is a straw man with no basis in fact.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    15. Re:idiots by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      You said:

      Yep. An inefficient market, e.g. a monopoly is not good. You manglarized that into "perfectly efficient" then acted smug when I justified my original statement not your mangling of it.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    16. Re:idiots by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      have greater inequality than the US health care system.

      [citation needed].

      I looked up a bunch of stats for Germany and the US in terms of outcomes. They trade places a lot, which seems to me that neither is especially better than the other. Except the German one is half the price.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    17. Re:idiots by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      You manglarized that into "perfectly efficient"

      No, I didn't "manglarize" that, I simply clarified what I understood your statement to mean, namely the usual sense of "efficient" meaning "perfectly efficient". If you don't equate "efficient" with "perfectly efficient", then you have to explain what you mean by efficient.

      So, right now, I still don't know what you mean by this statement since terms like "free markets", "helpful", and "efficient" have many different meanings:

      Free markets are only helpful when the market is efficient.

      After you clarify what you're trying to say, you can then perhaps supply some evidence to back up whatever you're trying to say.

    18. Re:idiots by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      have greater inequality than the US health care system. [citation needed]

      Sure, here you go:

      http://www.sueddeutsche.de/gel...

      That is, 90% of Germans are forced into the mandatory system, with long waiting times and little choice in doctors, while the remaining 10%, mostly those making more than EU 54000 must by insurance in a less regulated and much more expensive private market (and receive much better service in return). Switzerland effectively also has a two tier system.

      I'm glad you like those systems and recommend them for the US. I think they would be a great improvement over the system the US has right now, in large part because the German and Swiss system are more market oriented and more tolerant of inequality (i.e., vastly different services depending on your ability to pay).

    19. Re:idiots by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Sure, here you go:

      That describes the German system, it doesn't support your points in comparison to the US one.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    20. Re:idiots by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      That describes the German system, it doesn't support your points in comparison to the US one.

      Really? In what way "doesn't it support my points"?

  18. increase in deaths, airport scanners by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    rapiscan scanners at the airport

  19. Trump Causes Nuclear War by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

    four more words!

    "American life expectancy declines..." Yeah, electing a hothead with his finger on the red button will do that to you.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
    1. Re:Trump Causes Nuclear War by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last I checked it was Hillary pushing for a no-fly-zone over Syria; AKA war with (nuclear armed) Russia. And all of this just to support the same militants we're bombing in Mosul...

    2. Re:Trump Causes Nuclear War by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      I wonder if that figure includes all the suicides since November 8th.

  20. I hate my job. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hate my job.
    I hate my job.
    I hate my job.
    I hate my job.
    I think about my job constantly to the point of anxiety.
    Anxiety physically manifesting as IBS and popping in my ear on loud noises and shaking hands and twitching eyelids.

    I must think about my job all the time to avoid obsolescence.
    I hate that programming languages and frameworks and hardware are obsolete in 5 years.
    I must stay up all night reading about new technology.
    I hate my job.
    My grandparents and most of my uncles are dead, except one, who will be dead next year.
    My father also died of brain cancer, most likely from welding fumes and the toxic crap in gasoline.
    My father hated his job(s). So I became an engineer.
    But I hate my job.
    But I hate my boss.
    I hate my boss's stupid impossible schedules.
    I hate how my boss can make me fly across country on a moment's notice.
    I hate Delta and the TSA but it is what I know.
    I hate my customers but it is what I know.
    I hate computers but it is what I know.
    I hate my psychopath boss's boss, but I think I can understand and predict his p$ychopathy, because he chooses the most inconvenient and painful choice that I know.
    I hate my job but it is what I know.
    I hate that my job won't let me take a breath to see a doctor.
    I hate that a doctor won't really care.
    I hate myself for not caring about myself.
    I hate that my only motivation is neurosis over a non-complete task.
    I hate my job.

  21. Entropy. Your only friend. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Deaths per 1000 population (2016 est.)
    Sweden 9.4 (locked in the sauna?)
    Denmark 10.3 (ham? happiness? bicycles?)
    Norway 8.1 (falling into the fjord?)
    Finland 9.9 (because my distant relatives party too much :)
    Iceland 6.3 (cousin sisterwife goads me mercilessly while we're trekking to the volcano..)
    UK 9.4 (treacle?)
    Canada 8.3 (hockey?)

    USA 8.2 (complaining about ACA..)

    Complaining about whatever it is that your friends complain about all the time is fucking wimpy. Grow a fucking cortex.

    1. Re:Entropy. Your only friend. by Sique · · Score: 1
      Deaths per 1000 is not a good proxy for life expectancy. If you look at Japan, which has the highest life expectancy, deaths per 1000 is even higher.

      If the population in a region increases over several decades because of a high birth rate, deaths per 1000 will be lower even when the life expectancy is 60 years or less. If you have many young people and not many old ones, deaths per 1000 are very low.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
  22. Re:Why, that's odd... by OrigamiMarie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would imagine Alzheimers deaths were categorized as "old age" or something similar. I think it's a relatively recent realization that while many people develop mental problems as they get older, this is not an absolute certainty and often there is a disease involved (so they blame the disease instead of just "that's the way people age").

    Oh, also we might be getting better at looking after the various illnesses and problems that come more easily with Alzheimers, so that instead of dying of pneumonia / flu / breaking a hip (and the subsequent physical downward slide) / etc, people are living long enough with the disease that it gets to the truly critical systems (breathing and such), where it can be the primary cause of death instead of just an invitation for a different cause of death.

  23. why is this even news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A tiny blip in the data for one year is a completely meaningless non-event. You would expect to see something like this occasionally by random chance and it would be surprising if we didn't. It doesn't mean life expectancy is on the decline. It doesn't mean anything. If it continues to decline for several years then it might be something worth looking at, but one year means squat.

  24. Re:Why, that's odd... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This kind of arbitrary date picking cause and effect game also works great with the economy! Try it at home, kids!

    Yeah, it's amazing all the weird results you get if you just cherry-pick the last 8 years or so.

    Life expectancy has gone down.

    The Middle East has fallen apart.

    Relations with Russia are at the worst they've been since the Cold War.

    Labor-force participation has dropped to the lowest level in decades and the jobs have become worse.

    I won't why those all have 8 years or so in common?

  25. So what you're saying is by DivineKnight · · Score: 2

    So what you're saying is, maybe I shouldn't be drinking the mercury that comes out of those old school thermometers, and playing with those discarded fire-alarms inside that off-limits shack with the peeling lead paint?

    1. Re:So what you're saying is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also don't drink the mercury laden tap water.

    2. Re:So what you're saying is by dwillden · · Score: 1

      Naw you're okay, unless you are eating the lead paint flakes as well. If you are doing that you are toast!

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
  26. Re:Why, that's odd... by ngc5194 · · Score: 1

    Over the last five years life expectancies in the U.S. have gone up, so I presume you're looking for something that happened five years ago to make overall life expectancies go up, right? Or does your twisted logic only work one way?

  27. DId the population age ? by aepervius · · Score: 2

    Aging population is a problem here (EU) and some of the psot mentionned (mental degeneration like alzeihmer, accident) are stuff which happens more likely to old population. Looking at the median age , US population became older. Could it be simply the median age rising it finally "catch up" with the death toll (e.g. you have two factors going against each other, rising quality of care and rising median age, maybe we did not see the rising median age effect before because it was covered by rising quality of care ?). Median age in years
    1960 29.5
    1970 28.1
    1980 30
    1990 32.9
    2000 35.3
    2010 37.2
    2015 37.8

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
    1. Re:DId the population age ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congratulations! You've just overturned a century of actuarial science. Nobody has never thought of this. It's a miracle that insurance companies haven't all gone out of business without the benefit of your insight.
      You truly are a genius.

    2. Re:DId the population age ? by fizzup · · Score: 1

      You are taking the position that life expectancy is falling because the population is getting older. While both the premise of the argument and the conclusion are true, I think you will have trouble making the case for a causal relationship. People are dying younger because they are living longer? Give your head a shake.

    3. Re:DId the population age ? by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      An aging population would increase the average lifespan of the population, because all those who die young make up a smaller percent of the total population.

  28. There is a solution. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

    The problem is that there is no incentive for corporations to have people live healthy lives. As a result of this people are slowly being killed by the things they eat and the medicines they take. The obvious solution is to create feedback loops that discourage damaging profit motives.

    For example, if you sell a product and a customer become ill as a result, your company has to contribute to their rehabilitation. This of course has the caveat of needing to record what people buy (already done by most companies) and relying on statistical analysis. As more and more data correlates a product to illness, the heavier the monetary burden is put on the corporation making it.

    Corporation have already fubar'd a lot of people so the burden is going to be quite heavy for them for many years but if they correct the products they know are hurting people, it will decrease over time. If they decide, "fuck it, sell it anyway" then the monetary burden will increase until it drives them out of business.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:There is a solution. by butzwonker · · Score: 1

      I would be surprised if this wasn't already in effect in the US. If a company's products cause illness, won't they loose any class action suit and have to pay millions? Don't they break the law by knowingly selling products that cause illness? I would think so.

      Also, the idea of slowly forcing companies out of business by putting a financial burden on them if they cause illness or even death seems a bit odd to me. You don't want to prevent illness and death in the first place by adequate consumer protection laws and their enforcement? A company can just kill a few customers here and there if they can get away with it financially? Only in the US can someone come up with such an idea...

    2. Re:There is a solution. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If a company's products cause illness, won't they loose any class action suit and have to pay millions? Don't they break the law by knowingly selling products that cause illness? I would think so.

      How many decades did it take to finally bring tobacco companies under control? the truth is that we still haven't despite the science. food companies are using the same tactics of doubt to delay this fight and make as much money as they can while millions die.

      You don't want to prevent illness and death in the first place by adequate consumer protection laws and their enforcement?

      As long as we're making magical wishes, why don't we wish for bad people to not be bad. In the meantime, it's best to attack problems using the most effective methods.

      A company can just kill a few customers here and there if they can get away with it financially? Only in the US can someone come up with such an idea...

      A few people? They are killing millions of people and getting away with it because it's difficult to prove because it's the extended use of their product that kills. Therefore, it only makes sense to make it so that their actions catch up with them, even if it takes 40 years to manifest heart disease.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    3. Re:There is a solution. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also - Gravis doesn't mean if your product has salmonella and make you sick - he's saying that if over 40 years a statistically relevant amount of people that drink coke become fat, coke should pay up for their health care.

      Very difficult to make stick. Just don't drink coke.

    4. Re:There is a solution. by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      Tobacco, alcohol, guns, opiates, fried foods, soda, cars, and cellphones combined with cars. All are causing significant illnesses and death, and there are no laws broken selling these products. This is pretty common around the world. Not sure how you missed it.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    5. Re:There is a solution. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would be surprised if this wasn't already in effect in the US. If a company's products cause illness, won't they loose any class action suit and have to pay millions? Don't they break the law by knowingly selling products that cause illness? I would think so.

      Also, the idea of slowly forcing companies out of business by putting a financial burden on them if they cause illness or even death seems a bit odd to me. You don't want to prevent illness and death in the first place by adequate consumer protection laws and their enforcement? A company can just kill a few customers here and there if they can get away with it financially? Only in the US can someone come up with such an idea...

      The issue is that class action lawsuits don't scale appropriately and actually serve more to sweep issues like this under the rug than to correct damaging behavior by corporations.

      After the lawyers take their cut and the ruling (or more commonly settlement) is divided among the entire class it's usually something like a $50 gift certificate redeemable for goods from the company that got sued.

      Compared to what the company actually owes, which would be payment in full of the treatment for the medical condition they caused (Which would easily add up to something like thousands of dollars per person per year for the remainder of tehir lives in some cases.) that is essentially getting off scott free.

    6. Re:There is a solution. by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Tobacco, alcohol, guns, opiates,

      are all heavily restricted, and selling them to the wrong people or without certain permissions is illegal.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    7. Re:There is a solution. by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      And when stupid actions by the government kill people, then what? Hint: It's the same system that protects us from corporations...

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
  29. Obesity? by bradley13 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Causes of death are often complex, especially in older people, who may be suffering from a variety of issues simultaneously. Nonetheless, one underlying cause should not be overlooked: increasing obesity in the US drives a lot of other health issues.

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    1. Re:Obesity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Who is overlooking it? It's mentioned in every health related Slashdot post. Hell it's mentioned in half of the purely tech/science related posts. Post is about a new kernel for Linux, better bash Americans about their weight and non-use of the metric system.

    2. Re:Obesity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly: you can't save people from themselves.

  30. Bye Bye Boomers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is mostly effecting baby boomers.
    It's not so much the average age changing as the middle shifting to reflect the dying off of the first children of the age of the atom.

    This is going to keep happening until the boomers finish dying off. Then you'll see a serious uptick as their rad hardened children and grandchildren begin to outstrip them by far.

    This is actually really good news. It means we won't have to keep paying for boomers to live to ungodly ages, meaning gen-x and the millennials have some hope of a retirement that doesn't involve changing diapers.

    Consider the place with the largest cohort of super centenarians...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Here's a hint, we dropped nukes on it about 72 years ago.
    Killed everyone that was going to die of radiation and / or cancer in the process.

    Those that survived have passed their genes onto a new generation. Cancer rates in Japan are ultra low as a result.
    http://healthhubs.net/cancer/c...

    See also
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Mark my words, the cancer death rates there are approaching 0 rapidly as those susceptible to it die off earlier, thereby leaving more reproductive opportunities for those who are not susceptible.

  31. Not surprised... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're killing yourselves. Mass shooting A? 14 down. Mass shooting B? 20 down.

    I takes 9months to replace one of those...

    1. Re:Not surprised... by anarcobra · · Score: 1

      Yeah, all those mass shootings causing people to die from heart disease.

    2. Re:Not surprised... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Actually... you're joke may be somewhat true. Stress is a major contributor to heart disease, and living in a country where mass shootings is a regular occurrence (in fact more regular than ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD -... actually that's selling it short, TWICE as many in 20 years as the next 10 countries COMBINED) and everybody has a fucking gun, with no real measure to determine if they even know where the safety is, would sure as hell leave ME permanently stressing out.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
  32. Welcome to moronic logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Fact: Under Obama care, life expectancy declines. In addition, there are many news articles detailing how coverage cost as gone way up and services have gone down.

    Conclusion: It is trumps fault.

    You sir, are the stuff retards are made of.

    1. Re:Welcome to moronic logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are apparently ignorant of the fact that correlation is not causation. You cite absolutely no evidence establishing a causal relationship, and then descend into knuckle-dragging ad hominem. You propose a 'hypothesis' not a 'fact.' Conclusion: You are part of the problem.

    2. Re:Welcome to moronic logic by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Fact: Under Obama care, life expectancy declines. In addition, there are many news articles detailing how coverage cost as gone way up and services have gone down.

      Conclusion: It is trumps fault.

      If Donald Trump can take credit for the improving economy over the past year, then he can also take credit for the declining health of the nation over the past year.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  33. Or it might go up by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 2

    It's sure to drop further once he repeals health care.

    That's one rationalization of the future.

    Another one is that life expectancy has gone down because more people are impoverished.

    If you don't have a lot of money, you tend to scrimp and cut corners. You might not be able to purchase a new winter jacket, might not be able to take a day or two off of work when you're sick, and might not be able to recover from a burglary.

    If the economy picks up in a way that benefits the people instead of businesses, more disposable cash might lead to longer life expectancy.

    But hey - don't let me interfere with your narrative. The "and replace it with something better" thing will *never* **ever** happen.

    Because... Trump.

    1. Re:Or it might go up by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      Another one is that life expectancy has gone down because more people are impoverished.

      The problem with that theory is that it's based on an obvious lie. The poverty rate has dropped dramatically the last few years after peaking in 2010.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    2. Re:Or it might go up by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0

      Another one is that life expectancy has gone down because more people are impoverished.

      No. Try again.

      https://www.statista.com/stati...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:Or it might go up by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Your citation shows higher poverty 2009-2015 than 2001-2008. More people have been impoverished under Obama than before.

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    4. Re:Or it might go up by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Your citation shows higher poverty 2009-2015 than 2001-2008. More people have been impoverished under Obama than before.

      Tell you what, Chris: People can look at the graph for themselves and see that poverty has been steadily declining since the end of the recession. And right now, poverty is lower than it was the year Obama took office.

      The poverty rate today is also almost exactly where it was when Ronald Reagan left office.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  34. America spend double what other countries do by TheNarrator · · Score: 1

    Health care spending as a percent of GDP is double what it is in all advanced economies and we have worse outcomes by several measures. THE SOLUTION IS NOT TO SPEND MORE MONEY! WE ALREADY DO THAT BY A HUGE AMOUNT! The fix involves getting the drug, hospital and insurance prices down and that involves spending LESS money.

    1. Re:America spend double what other countries do by ThosLives · · Score: 1

      Actually, the fix is to stop promoting the idea of "extend my life at any cost," complicated by the fact that individuals basically can afford "at any cost" because of insurance.

      But that's a cultural issue, something that legislation cannot solve except by disallowing insurance companies from covering that kind of treatment (which is political suicide, so it won't likely happen).

      --
      "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
    2. Re:America spend double what other countries do by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      Health care spending as a percent of GDP

      the only way the spending numbers can be twisted to prove a point. Spending per person would be reasonable... Along with an explanation of what defines "Health Care Spending"

      Whenever you see X as a percentage of Y you should immediately put your common sense based truth detector on.

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
  35. Defense and spending ceilings by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Only 80 killed in 10 years, sounds like the defense was working for the most part.

    The problem with healthcare is there is no ceiling to the cost and the end result is always the same, everyone dies eventually. Most of the early deaths appear to be lifestyle related anyway. Any reasonable person should prefer money to be spent on preventing unnecessary deaths (like terrorism) and just take care of themselves better to handle the longevity part.

    The US now has 10 aircraft carriers, 2 under construction, and 1 planned. (source)

    Military spending is 54% of our national budget, which is more than the amount of our deficit. More than the combined spending of the next seven countries.

    What was that you were saying about spending ceilings?

    1. Re:Defense and spending ceilings by gtall · · Score: 0

      Defense budget was about 17% of the national budget in 2015, stop repeating lies.

    2. Re:Defense and spending ceilings by kelvin31415 · · Score: 2

      > Military spending is 54% [nationalpriorities.org] of our national budget

      False. You linked to a pie chart that looks only at "discretionary" spending, ignoring "mandatory" spending that comprises 60% of the federal budget. Military spending is not 54% but closer to 16% of the federal budget, and that 16% includes Homeland Security as well. See http://www.politifact.com/trut...

    3. Re:Defense and spending ceilings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree its too high. But the dollar amount spent on defense and preventing unnecessary deaths not just in our country but in some other parts of the world is arguably worth more per $ than extending life expectancy as a whole especially when part of that is in your control. What is a better way to spend money? Preventing 10,000 people from being executed by a small army of terrorists, or extending the lifespan of 10m+ people who made poor life choices by a few extra years in our own country?

    4. Re:Defense and spending ceilings by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      You must have searched long and hard for such a dishonest breakdown.
      Try this: http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/breakdown

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  36. Doesn't decline by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

    Maybe the post WWII "baby boomers" are getting old, and we reach a step where these people just start to die. Thus, despite progresses in medical science, statistics are skewed.

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    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
  37. Insurance is a leech by Jesus+H+Rolle · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Americans paid $3.2 trillion for healthcare in 2015. That's $10,000 per capita. We already spend far more than needed for every American to have quality healthcare. The insurance companies are middle persons who grab enough of that money to create a healthcare shortage. In exchange, they provide a service that could be replicated by a team of talented appers in less than a year. It's just databases and arithmetic, with front end apps for users.

    Give people quality healthcare and they'll live longer.

    1. Re:Insurance is a leech by strikethree · · Score: 2

      Eh? The insurance companies may be a leech but they are not the root of the problem. Why is it that going to the dentist costs roughly the same now with insurance as it did in the 1970s without insurance? The reason is, once there was insurance, all of the billers realized they could raise their rates because individuals could no longer shop. Their insurance company specified where they could go and what they could get done.

      It is the same with copays. The copay that you pay today is the same as the cost of doctors visit without insurance cost in the 70s. Essentially, medical suppliers sucked up all of that insurance money and kept the direct cost to you static. In other words, your insurance premiums are an extra tax for using the medical system. They do not help to pay for anything. It is pure profit (for someone, not sure exactly who yet as the maze that the money makes it way through is quite impenetrable. On purpose I am sure.). The system is either amazingly broken or brilliantly engineered... I guess it all depends on which side of the money vacuum you are on.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    2. Re:Insurance is a leech by Hulfs · · Score: 2

      I don't entirely disagree with your assertion, especially in hospital billing, but you're aware of this thing called inflation right? A 1975 dollar has the buying power of $4.55 today (according to the dollartimes inflation calculator).

      My copays are $25 for a general visit. So, let's go with your assertion that $25 is what you paid for a full office visit in 1975 (I wasn't alive then, but I'll trust you), and convert that to today's dollar. That's $113.75, which is actually LESS than my insurance provider allows for a general office visit for in network doctors - I think it's about $95 if I remember my EOB the last time I checked.

      I did this with a gen doctor visit because my standard Dentist cleaning visits are $80 (without insurance - xrays are additional though, did they do those in 1975 once a year?), so that's an even bigger discrepancy in 1975 vs. 2016 buying power.

    3. Re:Insurance is a leech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In 1970, a hamburger at McDonalds was thirty cents. Now it's much more. Is that because we have burger insurance so all rates got jacked up? No, it's because of inflation.

    4. Re:Insurance is a leech by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Part of the increased cost of a dentist visit is that the visit is no longer the same. In the 1970s, dental technicians weren't wearing masks and gloves that they discarded a dozen times a day. There wasn't an x-ray machine that circled your head, nor computerized imaging and record-keeping systems. Nor did the typical dentist's office require 3 secretaries to do billing and keep records straight for government requirements.

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  38. Life expectancy drops under Clinton and Obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why am I not surprised? Of course Bill's was STD-related, and Barry's was drug-related (obesity from too many munchies).

    1. Re:Life expectancy drops under Clinton and Obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot to consider the effect of averaging in all the illegals bringing in measles, mumps, TB, malaria, and other third world afflictions.

    2. Re:Life expectancy drops under Clinton and Obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're blaming the anti-vaxers ?

  39. The war on drugs and Obamacare by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The war on drugs and Obamacare clearly aren't working.

    1. Re:The war on drugs and Obamacare by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, the war on Obamacare has been quite futile and expensive.

  40. Surprised much? by Going_Digital · · Score: 1

    In a country with... The highest levels of obesity in the world. Where the citizens carry lethal weapons and shootings are a daily occurrence. Has a privatized health care system that many people can not afford to be part of. Why would anyone be surprised that the average lifespan is decreasing?

    1. Re:Surprised much? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      We're not.
      We're surprized it took this long.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    2. Re:Surprised much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not the highest levels of obesity. Not even in the top 10, but for some reason there are always qualifiers seemingly designed to drop other countries from the list.

      Some citizens carry weapons, but not the overwhelming majority. And if you are talking about gun violence (discounting suicide), I would point out that the US isn't in the top 100 countries on that list.

      And healthcare? No one can be turned down for healthcare regardless of ability to pay. If you have money, they will take it (and lots of it), but if you do not have the money you will still get the care.

    3. Re:Surprised much? by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      Where the citizens carry lethal weapons and shootings are a daily occurrence.

      About 2/3 of those are suicides, and most of the rest is urban drug gangs (i.e., detroit, baltimore, etc.). Europe will learn more about this as their MENA populations continue to increase. Just sayin' the violent deaths are not particularly related to healthcare.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    4. Re:Surprised much? by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      Firearms-related homicides are down by more than 50% from their 1993 peak. Injuries resulting from criminal mis-use of firearms are down by more than 70% over the same time period.
      Look at the CDC data. Heart disease and cancer are by far the leading cause of death, killing over 600k and 500k each.

      http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastat...

      Firearms related homicides don't even make the top ten.

    5. Re:Surprised much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And healthcare? No one can be turned down for healthcare regardless of ability to pay. If you have money, they will take it (and lots of it), but if you do not have the money you will still get the care.

      Only acute care is covered by this, say you are dying of a heart attack or something. They will stabilize you and then roll you out the door. If you are slowly dying from an easily treatable condition with expensive medicine, good luck you get notta.

    6. Re:Surprised much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually drugs cause almost double the guns deaths, which BTW comes in as 3rd

  41. Resource Management - Death by Design. by geekmux · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The disturbing part is not the fact that longevity is in decline.

    The disturbing part is the likelihood that it is by design.

    Every government has a responsibility of resource management, and when a population continues to increase, policies and procedures must be put in place to help execute that responsibility.

    If you take a look at our policies and legal products, it paints quite an alarming picture. Tobacco is a legal product. From a health perspective, it makes absolutely zero fucking sense, as it kills 450,000 Americans every year, while providing zero benefit for a human body.

    That said, it is a legal product because it kills 450,000 Americans every year. It also is a leading cause of cancer, so government also gets the benefit of ticking off the "creates jobs" box with all of the related diseases caused by tobacco, namely the highly-profitable Cancer Industrial Complex. You really believe we're searching for a cure to eradicate an industry that generates well over $100 billion a year in profits, along with the twisted side benefit of population control? Think again.

    And tobacco is but one example of resource management. Think marijuana is still considered "deadly" per DEA Schedule standards? Hardly. It's not legal because it's not deadly enough to benefit resource management. It also helps fund the War on Drugs, creates thousands of jobs in the DEA, and feeds the Privatized Prison Complex. The only downside is we've earned the illustrious moniker of The Incarcerated States of America, but clearly maintaining an illegal status is worth it.

    Big Pharma has legalized the opium den in quite an elegant and profitable way, creating addicts, jobs, and deaths. And every study says HFCS is bad for you? Yup, let's ensure we put that shit in as many food products as possible while minimizing health risks. Carcinogens in makeup? Sure, why not. All examples of policy feeding the resource management responsibility.

    TL; DR - Death is by design, backed by policy, because every government has a responsibility of resource management.

    1. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and yet the population still grows. I guess that just shows how incompetent the government really is, huh?

    2. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by geekmux · · Score: 1

      and yet the population still grows. I guess that just shows how incompetent the government really is, huh?

      It's primarily defined as resource management, not population control.

      Population is a component of life itself, and chaos is an element within life that cannot be readily controlled.

      And the policies are kind of like Google's "Don't Be Evil" policy. Good for marketing to the masses, but hardly the case when you really look into it.

    3. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You explicitly mentioned population control.

      And regarding resource management. What resource is exactly being managed in your examples?

      Smokers are a HUGE drain on resources. They typically spend their last 5+ years in bad health, costing a lot of money. Not to mention the last 3-6 months.
      Similar for drugs. Addicts become ill before they die and cost lost of money too. Not to mention the costs for the associated criminality.

      That does not look like resource management. You just do not make sense. Now, maybe you mean they are a corrupt bunch of cronies, just in it for the interest of the ruling class, but then you still have not explained how this serves them.

    4. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by geekmux · · Score: 1

      You explicitly mentioned population control.

      And regarding resource management. What resource is exactly being managed in your examples?

      Smokers are a HUGE drain on resources. They typically spend their last 5+ years in bad health, costing a lot of money. Not to mention the last 3-6 months. Similar for drugs. Addicts become ill before they die and cost lost of money too. Not to mention the costs for the associated criminality.

      That does not look like resource management. You just do not make sense. Now, maybe you mean they are a corrupt bunch of cronies, just in it for the interest of the ruling class, but then you still have not explained how this serves them.

      The resources I'm talking about is this large rock we humans all rely on to sustain life, which governments conveniently drew lines all over it, separating "yours" from "mine", putting resources into even more finite pools. And since we're not getting of this rock anytime soon, that finite pool must be managed.

      Take tobacco on a global scale. 6 million humans die every year. If you think we have population issues now, imagine what problems we would face if millions of humans were not dying due to tobacco use every year. And that is but one example. These are the impacts that governments take into consideration when creating policy or legalizing products that feed resource management. And yes, I did explicitly mention population control. That is a component of resource management.

      As far as the sick and dying being a drain on resources, they also create massive profits, which in a capitalistic society, will always win. Addicts don't "cost" money. They make money for those lobbying governments for that capitalistic right. Governments gladly oblige as long as policy does not interfere too much with the obligation of resource management.

    5. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by rhazz · · Score: 1

      TL; DR - Death is by design, backed by policy, because every government has a responsibility of resource management.

      +4 interesting? Wow. So you're implying the government is killing off the locals to keep the population down? If that's true, why does the country allow so much immigration?

    6. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a much more mundane reason why alcohol and tobacco are still legal: we're sitting on millions of addicted people.
      Remember what happened during the prohibition era? It turned out that addicted people are willing to help destroy society to get their fix. They'd rather pay the Mafia, an organisation bent on killing folk and subverting the rule of law, than try to do without their fix. The result was that the prohibition era basically caused most of America's organised crime and we're still paying for that. Addicted people aren't really human in the normal sense of the word, and if you forget that, you'll pay for it.
      Even countries which are trying to address these issues are doing it slowly, one baby step at a time, because they must ensure that at every given step all the addicted non-humans won't suddenly go off on one.

    7. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      I think you are underestimating the role that consumers play in their own downfall.

      Cigarettes are bad for you, and everybody knows this, but millions of smokers buy them anyway. Nobody (outside of their own addiction) is forcing them to do so.

      HCFS is bad for you, but it makes food taste better -- or at least, it makes people more likely to buy the food. So when company A adds HCFS, its sales increase, and if company B refuses to, it loses market share and might go out of business. Again, nobody is forcing consumers to buy foods with more HCFS, rather it turns out they do so on their own when given the choice.

      I'm sure there are people in government (as well as in industry) who value maximizing profit over maximizing health, but they aren't the only bad actors here. There are many areas where people knowingly make health-negative decisions for themselves, simply because they value the short-term enjoyment more than the long-term health benefits.

      I don't have any good solution to propose for that problem, but I think any workable solution will have to take that into account rather than just blaming all bad outcomes solely on the supply side.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    8. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by geekmux · · Score: 1

      TL; DR - Death is by design, backed by policy, because every government has a responsibility of resource management.

      +4 interesting? Wow. So you're implying the government is killing off the locals to keep the population down?

      No, I'm implying that resource management is an obligation of every government. Death is merely a side effect of the effectiveness of executing that duty, and in many ways is a required side effect.

      If that's true, why does the country allow so much immigration?

      Governments have drawn lines all over this rock we live on that sustains human life, separating "yours" from "mine", making the pool of resources to manage all the more finite. Outside of perhaps pure charity, I have no logical explanation for the political decision to ignore the shit out of current immigration policy that would otherwise deny access, but logic bleeding over into politics seems to be more and more of a rarity these days.

      It's ironic that we want to embrace the dated "melting pot" concept in America while continuing to ignore the fact that every country draws lines for similar and valid reasons. We take this a step further and chastise those who simply want to enforce current immigration law. The term "undocumented", while offering some legal clarity, does little to resolve issues, and creates confusion. Not unlike politics itself.

    9. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The disturbing part is not the fact that longevity is in decline.

      The disturbing part is the likelihood that it is by design.

      Every government has a responsibility of resource management, and when a population continues to increase, policies and procedures must be put in place to help execute that responsibility.

      If you take a look at our policies and legal products, it paints quite an alarming picture. Tobacco is a legal product. From a health perspective, it makes absolutely zero fucking sense, as it kills 450,000 Americans every year, while providing zero benefit for a human body.

      That said, it is a legal product because it kills 450,000 Americans every year. It also is a leading cause of cancer, so government also gets the benefit of ticking off the "creates jobs" box with all of the related diseases caused by tobacco, namely the highly-profitable Cancer Industrial Complex. You really believe we're searching for a cure to eradicate an industry that generates well over $100 billion a year in profits, along with the twisted side benefit of population control? Think again.

      And tobacco is but one example of resource management. Think marijuana is still considered "deadly" per DEA Schedule standards? Hardly. It's not legal because it's not deadly enough to benefit resource management. It also helps fund the War on Drugs, creates thousands of jobs in the DEA, and feeds the Privatized Prison Complex. The only downside is we've earned the illustrious moniker of The Incarcerated States of America, but clearly maintaining an illegal status is worth it.

      Big Pharma has legalized the opium den in quite an elegant and profitable way, creating addicts, jobs, and deaths. And every study says HFCS is bad for you? Yup, let's ensure we put that shit in as many food products as possible while minimizing health risks. Carcinogens in makeup? Sure, why not. All examples of policy feeding the resource management responsibility.

      TL; DR - Death is by design, backed by policy, because every government has a responsibility of resource management.

      Let's keep tobacco and opiates legal and legalize everything else. We can spend the money on much needed honest studies on drugs, education and treatment for addiction. Maybe kids wouldn't pick up cigarettes if they were too buys smoking pot. Think that sounds crazy. That's your bias showing not mine. When my kids grow up, I hope to God they become pot smokers and not cigarette smokers. But, I don't want to make tobacco illegal. A much better idea would be forcing transparency on the industry. The additives are such a big part of the problem with cigarettes, and most people don't even think about those things because they are hidden away.

    10. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by geekmux · · Score: 1

      There's a much more mundane reason why alcohol and tobacco are still legal: we're sitting on millions of addicted people.

      From the cradle addiction to the actual grave, every step along the way feeds capitalism. Government fully supports that because it also meets the needs related to resource management. Addicts don't cost money. They make money.

      Remember what happened during the prohibition era? It turned out that addicted people are willing to help destroy society to get their fix. They'd rather pay the Mafia, an organisation bent on killing folk and subverting the rule of law, than try to do without their fix. The result was that the prohibition era basically caused most of America's organised crime and we're still paying for that.

      The reasons for Prohibition never coming back again are a bit different today than when it was introduced. Alcoholism was conveniently labeled as a "disease" many decades ago. Why? So that the growing Medical Industrial Complex could obtain a massive benefit from it, backed by insurance companies who will now cover you to treat this new affliction. Pure capitalism drives the legalities around alcohol today, which will never be denied no matter how many MADD mothers march. Alcohol is now a $200 billion dollar burden on society, which drives a lot of money into the pockets of those lobbying to keep it legal.

      Addicted people aren't really human in the normal sense of the word, and if you forget that, you'll pay for it.

      In a capitalistic society controlled by pure unadulterated greed, an addict is nothing more than a reliable customer.

      Even countries which are trying to address these issues are doing it slowly, one baby step at a time, because they must ensure that at every given step all the addicted non-humans won't suddenly go off on one.

      Controlling the addicted zombies to keep the horde at bay is a cute theory. I prefer to accept the fact that resource management is an obligation of every government. The baby steps are political bullshit pandering to put forth the image that we are a civil society who actually gives a shit about not creating addicts while maintaining profitable legislation that unfortunately creates addicts.

    11. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by houghi · · Score: 1

      Even if it is by design, it does not explain why the numbers are going down.
      Even if tobacco would take 50% of all deaths and we have a lottery that takes out another 25%, the number can still grow.
      So unless you show me what the percentage of tobacco death are during the years they are talking about, it means nothing in this context.
      It does not explain why the numbers are starting to get lower. It explains why they are high as they are, but not the change, unless you have numbers that back it up.

      You should also look to other countries and see what the reason might be.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    12. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're so wrong. It's legal because of greed. They wouldn't have taxed tobacco to hell and back in most states if "they" wanted people to die.

      You're making the mistake many make of assuming somebody is in charge of this ship we call society. There's no one in charge. It's every man and woman for themselves.

    13. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TL; DR - Death is by design, backed by policy, because every government has a responsibility of resource management.

      You have a naive amount of faith in the competency of the government.

      These morons couldn't even rig an election, there's no way they have a master plan to reduce the population in service of a larger economic model.

    14. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by geekmux · · Score: 1

      You're so wrong. It's legal because of greed. They wouldn't have taxed tobacco to hell and back in most states if "they" wanted people to die.

      Ah, not quite. It's legal because it creates highly profitable ailments before it all but guarantees a premature death. Both of those side effects to legalizing tobacco feed the needs of the greedy and the obligation of resource management. It's a win-win.

      You're making the mistake many make of assuming somebody is in charge of this ship we call society. There's no one in charge. It's every man and woman for themselves.

      Uh, legislators are somewhat in charge when you look at the fact that most people do not steal cars and burn down buildings because it is against the law, which is enforced. Our laws dictate how the ship called Society steers. The proof of that would be to look at societies that Americans would define as far less civilized in their behavior, and the amount of regulatory control applied and enforced. There are many "lawless" places around the world that Americans fear to tread; those are the societies where no one is at the proverbial helm.

    15. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by rhazz · · Score: 1

      These arguments are ridiculous. At a national level, doing or not doing many things will have at least some (mostly very minor) effect on death rates. That you can point to one particular area and say that a lack of regulation here leads to more deaths does not rationally promote the idea that the government wants their citizens dead.

      You have no logical explanation because you assume your premise is true despite the plethora of more rational explanations which better suit the evidence. Immigration is allowed because the entire global economy is based on growth, and a shrinking population leads to an inefficient economy. Pot has been a cultural taboo for decades, but is becoming less so as more people become educated about it, and so restrictions are loosening. Tobacco has been a cultural norm for decades, but is becoming less so as more people become educated about it, and so restrictions are tightening.

    16. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by geekmux · · Score: 1

      Even if it is by design, it does not explain why the numbers are going down. Even if tobacco would take 50% of all deaths and we have a lottery that takes out another 25%, the number can still grow. So unless you show me what the percentage of tobacco death are during the years they are talking about, it means nothing in this context. It does not explain why the numbers are starting to get lower. It explains why they are high as they are, but not the change, unless you have numbers that back it up.

      You should also look to other countries and see what the reason might be.

      You want clarity behind the numbers when the numbers quite literally slipped fractions of a percent across the aggregate. I'm not going to even try and distill that level of needle-in-a-haystack analysis when statistics can be mutilated to the point of being utterly worthless. Suicides and depression is up. Economy isn't exactly wonderful. Opiate addiction is on a rampage, along with a socialized healthcare system that is creating heroin addicts as a side-effect. A super-sized obese society. Take your pick as to why the numbers are "going down".

      And the key number that has been held down is the population number. Without death by design, we would be facing a whole new wealth of issues related to resource management. Population control is a key component of resource management.

      Tobacco was but one example I provided that kills hundreds of thousands of Americans every year, approved by the very Government that not only benefits from taxation, but also meets the obligation of resource management and creates massive profits treating related illnesses before a premature death. It's a win-win-win.

    17. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There would hardly be a difference if 6 million people did not die every year from smoking.

      First, they do not die because of smoking. They just die a bit earlier than usual because of smoking.
      Second, death typically occurs well after childbearing age. When they die they have already procreated.

      It simply does not do much in the manage resource department. The only thing that would is serious population control, which obviously is not happening.

      Your argumentation just does not make sense and is not even internally coherent.

    18. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Every government has a responsibility of resource management

      Your whole argument is based on a falsehood.

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      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    19. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by geekmux · · Score: 1

      Every government has a responsibility of resource management

      Your whole argument is based on a falsehood.

      Every human is reliant upon this rock we live on, which holds a finite amount of resources to sustain life.

      That is not a falsehood, and as the global population grows, so does the strain on the planet to continue to provide.

      The end result is resource management.

    20. Re:Resource Management - Death by Design. by geekmux · · Score: 1

      These arguments are ridiculous. At a national level, doing or not doing many things will have at least some (mostly very minor) effect on death rates. That you can point to one particular area and say that a lack of regulation here leads to more deaths does not rationally promote the idea that the government wants their citizens dead.

      Take a look at where FDA has allowed consumables that are anywhere near as deadly as alcohol and tobacco exist. There are none. They are so fucking harmful they can't fall under the FDA, so the government had to create a completely different division to regulate them under. You're attempting to minimize the impact of policy when it is the unique way in which policy was created that drives the point home regarding government managing resources. They don't want death. They need it, as a requirement of resource management. The obscene profits and taxes, as well as profits from unending medical treatments (vs. cures) driven around legalizing one of the most addictive products on the planet also benefit a capitalistic society, so it's pretty much a win-win-win from a government standpoint. It sure as shit isn't a win from a health standpoint, thus feeding the end result; premature death of citizens. One would think a government would want to actually do something about a killer taking the lives of hundreds of thousands of its own citizens to address your point regarding an economy based on growth. Resource management tends to justify that inaction quite clearly.

      You have no logical explanation because you assume your premise is true despite the plethora of more rational explanations which better suit the evidence. Immigration is allowed because the entire global economy is based on growth, and a shrinking population leads to an inefficient economy.

      Current immigration policy is being ignored, and we maintain borders around our country for the exact same reasons other countries do. Rest assured the amount of money spent on welfare as a result will not be overshadowed by the benefit provided from a growing population, driven from ignoring or politically distorting immigration law.

      Pot has been a cultural taboo for decades, but is becoming less so as more people become educated about it, and so restrictions are loosening. Tobacco has been a cultural norm for decades, but is becoming less so as more people become educated about it, and so restrictions are tightening.

      I'll believe that shit when I see it. Pot has never held a rational explanation for its continued DEA standing, and citizens can still purchase tobacco at age 18 for the overwhelming majority of the country under laws that are decades old. The continued death and incarceration toll paints a clear picture as to just how much has not changed.

  42. When this runaway roller coaster hits the wall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's better to sit in the front seat - that way the pain only lasts a second.

  43. Re: Fuck the police by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Oh it did, it's just that white folks ignored it or assumed it was justified. And they would've gotten away with it too if it hadn't been for those pesky cellphones.

  44. Did you even read the summary ? by aepervius · · Score: 1

    Normally I don't answer to AC but your post is especially funny. If the report was coming from an insurance conglomerate, like alliance, you would have a point. But the CDC is only showing a health report... Which has nothing to do with actuaries. So maybe it pay to read the summary from time to time, even if you don't botzher read the article ?LOL.

    --
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    1. Re:Did you even read the summary ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Normally I don't answer to AC

      That just makes you a bigot.

      If the report was coming from an insurance conglomerate, like alliance, you would have a point.

      That just makes you an ignorant bigot.

      Actuarial tables are used in every industry where risk needs to be measured and accounted for. How could you think the CDC doesn't care about them and death tolls have nothing to do on tables that accurately measure death?

      Boggles the mind why any reasonable person chooses to read slashdot anymore.

    2. Re:Did you even read the summary ? by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      read the summary

      Hey! We don't' take kindly to your types around here. Why don't you just move along sir.

    3. Re:Did you even read the summary ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Life expectancy is an actuarial concept! Any study by any agency that concluded death rates were higher without controlling for an aging population would not be worth the paper it's printed on.

  45. Re:Why, that's odd... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

    A general increase in life expectancy over a century has also made alzheimers far more common - as a helluva lot of people live long enough to get it without being killed by something else at 40.

    --
    Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
  46. Thanks, Obama. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It needs to be pointed out that Obama is still the president until mid-January. This news is happening during Obama's reign. Thanks for reducing our life expectancy, Obama.

    1. Re:Thanks, Obama. by craigminah · · Score: 1

      He's only reduced the life expectancy for white, Christian heterosexual men. Everyone else is ok.

  47. Re: Fuck the police by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    You realize how fucking asinine that opinion is, right?

    You're saying that all these racist white people voted for Obama, because they.. Hated black people more back then?

  48. Re:Fake news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What version of the Democrat playbook are you using? I'm on version 6.3.17 and I see no such distinction. I would imagine such a distinction would be a major version change as it breaks compatibility with legacy propaganda efforts.

  49. Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks Obama!

  50. Re:Live expectancy only good for rich and bourgeoi by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

    I wonder how the stats will change once he deports people and reduces immigration? We're not exactly taking people in for their prime health.

    --
    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  51. Re: Fuck the police by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  52. Ha! Obama caused this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obamabots cheered as 10million+ American CITIZENS lost their healthcare due to Obamacare - the people who lost were mostly working-class white people, whom Obama and all the Democrats in congress swore would be able to "keep your doctor" and "keep your plan". Those 10 million were then FORCED to buy into Obamacare (TEXTBOOK Fascism, not the cartoon fascism liberals always rant about). In doing so, those 10Million+ became HALF of the 20Million Obama now brags get their healthcare via Obamacare and they get far worse coverage for far more money with increasing premiums, and reducing benefits in every year going forward. The other Obamacare "customers"? A bunch of freeloaders who pay little-to-nothing for their coverage and in California many are Illegal aliens.

    Sorry, but this decrease in US Life Expectancy is ENTIRELY on Obama's watch and WITH Obamacare. You Obamabots cannot dodge these FACTS no matter you much you try to push DNC talking points and phony Obama "narratives".

    When Zeke Emmanuel (One of Obama's chief Obamacare architects) was recently asked about all the rate increases and unintended consequences, he replied that Obamacare is working exactly as intended. He had previously gone on the record pushing his "whole life plan" where government would track a person's value over his or her entire lifetime and decide how much to spend on that person's healthcare according to how much value there person could contribute to the government. The young and the old would be allowed to die under that scheme, and society would only provide healthcare to well-educated young adults.

    Johnathan Gruber (One of Obama's economists) was recently caught on video explaining that Obama took advantage of the stupidity of the average voter, generally, and more-specifically of Obama supporters to trick them into supporting Obamacare. He announced that lack of transparency was a key tool the Obama administration used to fool people into supporting the ACA.

    Go right on imagining that you are smart to support Obama - even he and his people are laughing at how stupid and gullible you were. Remember: Obama's only real-world (as opposed to college or politics) experience before becoming president was as a "community organizer" and he organized you right into shortening your own life.

  53. Only4thePoor by sdinfoserv · · Score: 1

    Actually, the rich are living longer ( http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02... ) There are several reasons why overall longevity in the US is down.
    - Cost of health care
    - Life style: Americans are much more sedentary. Obesity rates and associated diseases are up ( high blood pressure, diabetes, cholesterol levels) . We're seeing 40 year olds in nursing homes due to obesity. Nursing homes are having to retro-fit equipment and make larger doors for Bariatric patients.
    - The shift in wealth to the rich. As wealth disparity increases, there's less resources (money) for poor.

    1. Re:Only4thePoor by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      And more people are poor because progressive policies, especially in the last 8 years, are killing the economy. People depressed by the inability to provide for their own lives turn to drugs, alcohol, and junk food.

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  54. By asking that question, you show your stupidity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The military is both mandated by the Constitution and is part of the basic definition of a nation-state (provision for the national defense against external threats to the population). It is part of what the Constitution refers to as the "general welfare" - it applies to the overall nation and not to individuals. The Military has no legal obligation to protect a particular average citizen (it's mission is NOT the specific welfare of individuals) its duty is to protect the overall nation, and in doing so to hopefully protect as many individuals as possible, but the focus is on the nation. To the extent that the military protects/saves individuals it is as part of the overall mission or simply because it can, but the forces are not designed for that task.

    Healthcare, like food, clothing, housing, transportation, vacations, recreation, and education is about INDIVIDUAL, as opposed to general, welfare. It's nice, and everybody wants it, and every Miss America contestant can hope these things will be free for everybody, along with free rides on unicorns and free buckets of gold at the end of rainbows, but it is NOT something the Constitution requires the government to be involved in. The Constitution gives the government no role in these things, even though politicians (in BOTH parties) of the past few decades have ignored that and used lots promises of these things to buy votes.

    In truth, the more government gets involved in this sort of stuff the more expensive and less individual it becomes and the areas least-affected by government are where costs are best controlled - consider things like LASIK eye surgery which is generally not involved in government health "reforms": you can get it safely and rather affordably on short notice and often in a shopping center, with continual improvements and prices kept down by competition. Much of the rest of healthcare is partly under the thumb of government and you have waiting lines and spiraling prices (partly from all the cost-shifting) and you generally cannot even find out how much some medical procedure or test will cost until you have it and start getting the bills. I'm facing this right now...I was forced off of my old insurance and into the far-more-expensive Obamacare. I'm having surgery today and have been on a waiting list. I have not been able to get the price. I will start getting bills right after the procedure (actually, the surgeon billed me BEFORE the procedure for his expensive part of it) and it will be months before I know how many thousands of dollars I will be paying (thanks to Obamacare's sky-high deductibles that makes these plans nearly worthless)

  55. Ah, the most-famous liberal healthcare lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    In the US, infant mortality generally includes any death of a human being (who is not intentionally aborted) from the time that human is "viable" but still inside its mom.

    In much of the rest of the world (it varies by country) a child's death is not recorded as such if it has not reached some number of days, weeks, or even months after being born. Therefore, a child who dies from complications during child birth in the US would be added to the US infant mortality rate, but the same child dying the same way in many other nations would NOT be so recorded. This is how many governments make themselves look better, by monkeying with the stats instead of actually improving things.

    That old infant mortality stat as a comparison of healthcare quality has been debunked many times, but it does not stop propagandists from using it.

    Let me give you a better comparison re the US and Cuba: When Michael Moore (the sloppy-dressing millionaire guy who made the film "Sicko" praising Castro's heathcare system and probably influenced YOU to think Cuba's system is good) recently had a health crisis he did NOT go to Cuba for care..... he ran straight to one of those obviously inferior American hospitals. hmmmmmmm

  56. so... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obama and his supporters are actually hate-filled genocidal bigots.

  57. Which "Americans"? by Provocateur · · Score: 1

    Not that I am in perfect health, mind, but I seem to have picked the slow burn variety, in any case. We could use more detail sometimes, as in couch-potato-gamer-and-big-gulp-soda-and-pasta.

    --
    WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
  58. a couple of months difference of existence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so instead of simply existing the last few years of your life, now you are existing the last few years of your life minus a couple of months.

  59. Re:Live expectancy only good for rich and bourgeoi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't worry. Once Ryan pushes his voucher idea through, you won't be able to afford treatment under Medicare even if you are old enough to qualify.

  60. Re:By asking that question, you show your stupidit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The military is both mandated by the Constitution and is part of the basic definition of a nation-state (provision for the national defense against external threats to the population). It is part of what the Constitution refers to as the "general welfare" - it applies to the overall nation and not to individuals.

    You'll find that the basic definitions of a nation-state now include healthcare. The US's intransigence on that subject is meaningless obstruction, not principled counter-argument.

    Healthcare, like food, clothing, housing, transportation, vacations, recreation, and education is about INDIVIDUAL, as opposed to general, welfare.

    Nope, Healthcare is very much about the general, as is food, clothing, housing, transportation, and education. I'd even say conceptually, that the vacations and recreation also fit.

    That's why the state mandates immunizations, regulates doctors, the food supply, works to be sure that people do have safe clothing, housing, and effective transportation, and why education is also part of the state's mandate.

    The Constitution gives the government no role in these things, even though politicians (in BOTH parties) of the past few decades have ignored that and used lots promises of these things to buy votes.

    Transportation is very much in the government's role in the US Constitution, and you should check out state constitutions, they do cover education expressly as well.

    In truth, the more government gets involved in this sort of stuff the more expensive and less individual it becomes and the areas least-affected by government are where costs are best controlled - consider things like LASIK eye surgery which is generally not involved in government health "reforms": you can get it safely and rather affordably on short notice and often in a shopping center, with continual improvements and prices kept down by competition.

    Consider all the people reporting injuries and having complaints about LASIK eye surgery. And hearing aids. And those teeth whitening services. And all sorts of scams from "detox pads" to "herbal pills" that contain sawdust.

    Oh wait, you don't want to do that, do you?

    Much of the rest of healthcare is partly under the thumb of government and you have waiting lines and spiraling prices (partly from all the cost-shifting) and you generally cannot even find out how much some medical procedure or test will cost until you have it and start getting the bills. I'm facing this right now...I was forced off of my old insurance and into the far-more-expensive Obamacare. I'm having surgery today and have been on a waiting list. I have not been able to get the price. I will start getting bills right after the procedure (actually, the surgeon billed me BEFORE the procedure for his expensive part of it) and it will be months before I know how many thousands of dollars I will be paying (thanks to Obamacare's sky-high deductibles that makes these plans nearly worthless)

    Yawn, long lines? Because you don't instantly have surgery right now, since it's probably not good for an emergency surgery to just be done, so that's a good thing, meanwhile, you're complaining about them not knowing the cost of what they'll do before they do it! Damn, that's almost like contractors and auto mechanics, and lawyers, and every other damn professional you can name.

    But hey, you had a chance to demand your insurance company not be able to rip you off, and don't pretend it's Obamacare's fault, it's the insurance company getting its beak wet, but you didn't.

    So suck it.

  61. Thank you, Globalization! by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    Guess what else got passed in the early 1990's?

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  62. Legacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks, Obama.

  63. sociopaths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But, you can't have poor people dying because they can't afford healthcare... [...]

    Sure you can. It's just you are probably either a sociopath or psychopath if you're okay with.

  64. Easy to see why by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

    Given the number of strokes, heart attacks, and alcohol overdoses that occurred after the US election results, it makes sense that the yearly average was badly skewed.

  65. Chemicals, Chemicals, Chemicals.... by BrendaEM · · Score: 1

    What kind of reactions and side reactions will you form?

    --
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  66. it's the demographics, stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like most such statistics, reporters fail to understand that the population whose characteristics are changing is not a static object. What we have seen over recent decades is an influx of unskilled workers from abroad, much higher birth rates among poor people, and the introduction of widespread birth control among the well-to-do and educated. That skews the population in time to those who are more prone to substance "abuse," occupational diseases, poor health behavior, etc., as well as just plain bad longevity genes.

  67. Re: Fuck the police by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck you

  68. But "the 1%" lives longer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But "the 1%" lives longer.
    Inequality causes mortality.

  69. Live long enough.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ....and you WILL get cancer. It's just the nature of the human condition.

  70. Only one conslusion by tattood · · Score: 1

    Only one conclusion can be made from this: If you want to live longer, move out of the US.

    --
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    1. Re: Only one conslusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Definitely. Your Canadian neighbors to the North have an average lifespan of 81+ years. Mainly to universal health care and less obesity.

  71. statistics intepretation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the population broken down by race, blacks/hispanics have lower expectancy. They also have higher birthrate than whites/asians. it will go down without any group changing anything else. the total drop is like a month of expectancy or whatever. not a big change

  72. Suggestions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What you have, appears to be a dependency or an addiction on food (maybe severe), and it seems that you want to eat food all the time. Try chewing gum; maybe you have already.

    One reason could be constant feelings of hunger because of an enlarged liver. I could suggest you to have a liver reduction operation, though it's expensive and can be risky. But outcomes are usually successful. If your liver is healthy despite your obesity (so ask your doctor), then you might want to donate that piece to an organ bank.

    Another cause is some kind of a genetic disorder that gives you constant feelings of hunger, and that may be harder to treat. I'm not a physician or a nutritionist.

    Your "effort" is probably eating too little at a time, which leaves you hungry, and then you might be consuming food with the kinds of drinks that evaporate all the nutritional value of the food you eat. The thing about improper dieting (or hungering) is, that every once in a while, some people give up and binge-eat just to feel whole again. And then they "diet" yet again.

    I get eating whatever food, because even trash food can have at least some nutritional value, but trash food eaters (I don't know your current diet, so I'm generalising) tend to accompany their food with beer or like alcoholic drink (wine | liquor | champagne) or cola and other fizzy drinks. It is those beverages that cause fattiness.

    Fizzy drinks are usually consumed in their cold state, typically with ice, which fast food joints always add, unless told not to. Yes, ice makes colas and beers taste good.

    Now, the point about cold drinks is, that they slow down digestion and metabolism, and heavily contribute to obesity.

    So, when eating, replace cold drinks with warm drinks—preferably tea—because it's warm and will make digestion faster. Every once in a while, you could afford yourself a cold-drink treat, such as something nice once a month to accompany a burger. A burger and cola meal, but once a month.

    Take life as it is, and don't shut yourself out of your social life. Move around. If money is tight, allow yourself to treats where you can save.

    Eat when others eat, but select wisely, and choose warm drinks.

    Eat slowly and enjoy the taste. Back home, you could have some fresh nuts and raisins (not fried or salted) or dried fruits, and a cup of warm tea.

    Sleep at least eight hours every night. This is really important. Because if you sleep less, then that definitely causes your organism to be in an 'unsated' state, causing it to request more and more food. If you can afford to in your daily schedule, allow yourself to go to sleep earlier in order to give yourself a ninth or tenth sleeping hour. Alarm clocks were meant not for those who are sleeping, but for those waking up already. (Do heed their call, though, when going to work.) More sleep and earlier sleep reduces 'screen time', but it's better on your eyes. If your days are long, then really do (figuratively) recharge your batteries on weekends, which should translate to more wholesome sleep.

  73. Crops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Crops are a strategic resource, because one never knows when a country must suddenly become self-sufficient for a number of years, or if disaster strikes and some food production in a region is impossible, but same-country import is. That's why there has to be some overproduction, and also in order to keep competition up and to avoid a food deficit and price gouging. Crops are also a resource for export, if production is greater than actual local demand.

  74. Trump elected. Life expectancy declines. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't this fucking obvious?

    You bring in someone who wants to gut supports for the poor and disabled, cut research dollars, doesn't believe in climate change, etc.

    Of course the life expectancy of the average American is going to go down.

  75. Re:Live expectancy only good for rich and bourgeoi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    retard

  76. Insurance Companies SHOULD NOT Profit In Aggregate by QlooQl · · Score: 1

    This discussion comes up on Slashdot fairly often. I won a scholarship for economics and got a degree in finance. I also was in a corporate mentorship program where I was an intern to the president of insurance company. So here goes... I know this might blow peoples' minds, but in aggregate, and over long periods of time, "speculators" in every commodity from corn to coffee slightly subsidize producers (in aggregate they lose money). You could write a whole book on why, but I see insurance companies as speculators. They speculate on the probability of a given group's risk of a negative event. If there was unfettered competition, insurance companies would actually slightly subsidize their consumers. It amazes me how many people actually read an article and worry about the profits of insurance companies. Health insurance especially is a government protected oligopoly (monopoly or duopoly in many areas), and we are all suffering from the results of worse health outcomes and higher costs. The only reason insurance companies profit is because of government intervention, and you can assume any government intervention was written by and for the insurance companies that will profit. Insurance companies could never function without books worth of government regulation and legal precedent that functions about the same (there are literally libraries in most insurance company offices). Otherwise, insurance companies would never be able to stay in business. I wouldn't mind living in a world without insurance, but that's a political opinion. Insurance benefits people who have good lawyers the most and sick and dying people who can't fight the least.