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LG Threatens To Put Wi-Fi in Every Appliance it Introduces in 2017 (arstechnica.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: During the company's CES press conference today, LG marketing VP David VanderWaal says that "starting this year" all of LG's home appliances will feature "advanced Wi-Fi connectivity." One of the flagship appliances that will make good on this promise is the Smart Instaview Refrigerator, a webOS-powered Internet-connected fridge that among other things supports integration with Amazon's Alexa service.
For making my shopping easier. With all the choices out there, I can just cross LG off the list of anything I'd own.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Unless I'm missing something, if you don't want this functionality just don't give it your wifi password? Not really a "threat"...
I'm sorry, I can't do that Dave.
Did the editor used to work for The Register?
because she's forgotten the password to her fridge.
I'm not surprised LG is doing this. Whether it's for raw competitive reasons ("Look Phil! This one has the Wi-Fi and a touchscreen!") or less-than-desirable reasons (acquiring information regarding the use of the product / making it less serviceable by techs without specialized equipment), the fact is that this sort of thing was basically inevitable.
Whether it's worth caring about depends on whether the devices will perform their intended function without internet access. Sure, some people will find it nifty to have an app notify them when preheating is done or to be able to check that they turned the stove off as they drive away (and turn it off if they didn't), but the real question is whether I'll be required to sign up for an LG account in order to set it to 375 to bake cookies.
Internet connectivity as a bonus, I'm fine with. Internet connectivity to do the functions that have been served for the last hundred years with a knob...not so much.
...threatens to put a Lithium-Ion battery in every appliance!
Now I can get malware loaded onto every appliance in my home!
LG Boss: That's a nice toaster you got there.... it would be a shame if something were to happen to it.... boys.... you know what to do.
LG Henchmen: We sure do boss...
LG Boss: When you are done with the toaster, add wifi to all this junk
Proprietor: NOOOOOOO!
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
I'm already tech support for my entire family. Now I get to be tech support for their appliances. Every Thanksgiving is going to be "oh, since you're here, can you fix the wifi on the fridge?"
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
LG. You whole home can be a botnet now...
...might sum it up.
https://www.ftc.gov/iot-home-i... When the Federal Trade Commission plans to award $25k to whomever can prevent wifi device hacking, it's not as simple as a don't give the device your wifi password. There's sooooo many things to exploit these days in networking. Honestly, they'll probably force an Internet connection or void the warranty or do like what HP did and release a firmware update to make older devices stop working or prevent out-of-company parts from working. Twitter & Tumblr (command line stuff) @ theouterlinux http://www.theouterlinux.com/
...to handle the 40+ wireless clients in the house.
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
Just use your hardware firewall to blot it from connecting to the net. It's pretty easy - plus I imagine security won't be 100% on those Lucky Gold Star devices so there's likely an open ssh or like port on the things. Hack away.
It's all about data mining, imagine the possibilites:
-User does x number of washes/day/week/month - must have kids
-User opens fridge door x number of times day - must be a snacker, have x number of kids / teenagers
-User Waits n minutes before emptying washer and starts dry cycle
-User always uses prem press - doesn't care about electricity cost
-User uses microwave x number of times/day, at n number of minutes - must eat frozen meals
-User uses stove n number of minutes/day , must eat frozen pizzas.
I propose:
-WiFi toothbrush
-WiFi pillow
-WiFi bed [ already exists ]
-Cellphone enabled Car [already exists]
-WiFi Sex Toys [ already exists ]
-WiFi Toys [ already exists ]
The best thing about this, is users will gladly pay for this. They will even fill out the "Warrranty Cards" and give us all their personal information.
I certainly won't buy any machines with unreasonable Internet connectivity that I don't want. I also don't think that such machines can really be cheaper than equivalent machines without any connectivity, so there's no worry that other choices will not be available at some point.
If not buying is not enough, here is a sure way to make a company change their minds if a sizable number of customers does it: Buy the machine & get it delivered to you, then return it by pointing out that you disagree with their connectivity and any associated EULA (which exists without doubt). Remember that nobody can force you to agree with a contract, and that clauses like "by using X you agree with this or that" are frivolous and invalid out-of-the-box. Send them back your modified contract (the original with modifications) before you click Agree, or explicitly disagree in written form later. They will have to take their product back and fully reimburse you.
How convenient for "Internal Security" if every LG fridge, TV, or other appliance is a spy appliance.
How long before NSA has an exploit?
How long before your local burglar can get one off a web site, and use it to determine what valuables you have and when you'll be out of the house?
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Or even worse, in every television.
We must resist this.
Not sure how a statement related to putting wifi in all future appliances is a threat. Maybe its evil wifi set to spy on every aspect on your life and phone home to big brother, muahahahahah.
This will be the difference between an insecure mess and something that just works, as the old appliances used to...
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
a simple wifi antenna was able to blackwhite graph a 360 degree picture of a room, as though we need not wait for a security camera installation. But will it guardmy dorm belongings? But will it keep my sox/veg fresh or alert me when my goldfish needs hospital visit? I cant wait to hear more of what an amateur radio operator can do with modern tech with a few modifications...
Back when I was a college student with an LG mini-fridge in my dorm room I could've used this. At least, if it was smart enough to send me a warning "hey dumbshit, you left a can of pop in the freezer and if you don't get your ass back here soon it's gonna burst and make a blood mess."
on account of Internet of Hacked. if I had one, I'd block it at the router.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Who knows, maybe they'll do it right. Isolating the WiFi components from the appliances primary functions via an independent interface with decent security. Admittedly its a long shot, but it's possible?
of reading this post right after coming across this article: ...
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/android-ransomware-infects-lg-smart-tv/
A LG android smart TV being locked by ransomware
Can't wait for your fridge refusing to open and release your ketchup sauce until you pay some ransom !
lots of things i would rather NOT get wifi in, like my refrigerator, stove, dishwasher, oven, washer & dryer, etc... i dont want every home appliance i own connecting to the internet
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
Just this one could get messy
1) hack enough big devices, refrigerators, air conditioners, and hot water tanks
2) set them to all go on at the time of maximum power usage at the exact same instant
3) see what happens.
4) wait 1 minute
5) set them to all go off
6) see what happens.
It might be interesting....
(And that is just one frightening idea that should never be done... no idea if it would trip anything, but I suspect it might.)
The worse thing your TV can generally do is show you unwanted images/play unwanted sounds until you unplug it. When your fridge decides to stop working you have to deal with a wheelbarrow full of rotting food. When your stove/microwave fail you have difficulty preparing many foods for safe consumption. And if your furnace goes out (especially in winter in cold climates) there is a real risk of risk to life & property (freezing to death, plumbing damage, etc).
Well, at least the internet of cold shit will smell better than the internet of hot shit.
God forbid that LG should make a refrigerator that works well, LG is just piling on more and more useless features. Heck, they cannot even make a reliable ice maker that doesn't occupy 1/4 of the refrigerator and freezer volume. To make things worse, all of those screens in the doors just increase the heat load on the cooling system---even after making the door ridiculously thick to accommodate the screen and extra insulation. So, how do they want to improve the products? By adding WiFi. Brilliant!
Any IoT device should be required by law to have an easy way--something that any user can do--to turn off internet connectivity. Most people do not understand how to setup networks, firewalls or about 2.4 GHz or 5 Ghz. The IoT is a disaster waiting to happen.
It wouldn't hurt my feelings at all to be able to let some device or app in my world slurp up information about how much power the fridge is using, squawk if the door's been left open or something has failed, etc. If the compressor is running longer or harder than usual or the icemaker is reporting a jam or water flowing in an unusual way - getting an SMS message from my home network about something like that while I'm out of the house could actually head of a real mess. But all of that can be done via a well-supported, locked-down home controller (say, a Vera product) that chats with the stuff in the house over the meshed Z-Wave protocol and stays off of the wifi network. Z-Wave is great. You bind a device to your controller, and that's it - the war driving kid from next door with some Z-Wave sniffing widget might be able to see it's there, but he can't take it over without physical access. Our home controller is, itself, wired to one of our local network's DMZs and doesn't use wifi directly. So long as I run a decently maintained firewall and APs, the presence of Z-Wave based devices around the house (current count ... over 20, mostly lighting but also fire/CO-detectors, motion sensors, and some controlled outlets) isn't something I worry about. If my internet-facing network is compromised, I've got different, bigger worries.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Seriously, I think that a wired Ethernet would be better than WiFi. Wifi is too easy to pick up on. Then have a plug that can be put in that use POE to power a small wifi to broadcast if wanted.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
far better to NOT use any wireless by default. Instead have an ethernet with POE. If customers/builder wants, they simply put a unit on the end (wifi, z-wave, blue-tooth), that pulls the power from the POE. This makes it so that smart ppl are not broadcasting, but if somebody is dumb enough to broadcast, then at least they can get hardware updates down the road which are different or updated protocols with updated unit..
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Seriously, are they doing ransomware, where we have to pay LG to NOT connect?
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The worst thing my TV can do if hacked is stop working completely and forever.
If you don't want to use your WiFi features in your TV or your fridge then simply don't enable the WiFi. Problem solved.
The mass attacks on IoT devices has been against devices that can be directly addressed from the Internet, not devices that are sitting behind a firewall.
I can also freeze to death if my dumb furnace stops working. I don't fear that either, not because it couldn't happen but because I understand that if a furnace stops working I need to call someone to repair it and find a warm place to stay if my house gets too cold.
My wife asked me why I carried my gun around the house.
"Decepticons", I replied.
She laughed. I laughed. The toaster laughed. I shot the toaster.
Have gnu, will travel.
On a slightly related note: I am always surprised (ok, maybe not surprised but annoyed) at how many members of this (ostensibly) "science and tech" news aggregate always seem to be so vehemently against the proliferation of technology into our daily lives.
It's not a problem of technology per-se but proliferation of technology in inappropriate and dangerous places. There isn't a single value added feature for wifi in a refrigerator. Not one. Putting wifi into it just adds cost and complexity and security problems with no offsetting benefit. Worse, appliance makers have a long and glorious history of building their products as cheaply as possible and not caring about them at all beyond any warranty obligations. Do you seriously think these things will get regular and timely high quality security updates in perpetuity? Not a chance. These things will get hacked about 5 minutes after installation and the owners will be left out to dry by the maker of the device.
In the immortal words of Jeff Goldblum, "you were so busy thinking about whether you could do something that you didn't bother to consider whether you should".
And I blame E.T. for starting it all.
...has a ton of pull with major manufacturers. Yes, make billions of insecure devices we can run botnets from, please.
I don't want a smart TV. I want a 'smart' appliance of any other type even less.
CyberKender
Apparently Appointed Lord Mayor of There
Just don't give it the WiFi password.
The Marketing Division of LG is a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
I get your cost argument, but I fail to understand the security risk if you don't permit it to connect to your network.
Because some people will connect it without understanding the risk they are taking. "Ooh, shiny!" is a shockingly compelling argument to many.
I understand that if a furnace stops working I need to call someone to repair it and find a warm place to stay if my house gets too cold.
But if it's an unoccupied rental, the pipes will freeze and burst and you may not know for a long time. What's useful to one person may not be useful to everyone, but it's not stupid all around.
"LG Threatens To Put Wi-Fi in Every Appliance it Introduces in 2017"
And I, as a consumer, opt not to buy their wifi-enabled craptastic gadgets. Problem solved.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
We all love a faustian bargain...
>The worst thing my TV can do if hacked is stop working completely and forever.
Or turn into part of a botnet attacking other peoples websites. Maybe you're on a metered connection and you'll go over your bandwidth quota.
Oh, and maybe you have one of those smart TVs that responds to voice commands and can be turned into a listening device.
Maybe the firmware settings like to reset themselves on the TV every 6 months so it starts looking for the nearest open wireless to connect to.
from putting microphones and/or cameras on all their appliances either. To stop this stupidity. Vote with you wallet and buy no LG appliances or products.
"LG Threatens To Put Wi-Fi in Every Appliance..."
The only true threat that exists today is the mass stupidity and ignorance that embraces this WiFi-everything idea and calls it a fucking awesome feature.
And there's no stopping that.
I'm all for POE on things like cameras. But there's nothing not to like about z-wave LED bulbs, for example. They just work. They're not a security threat. No wires involved.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I don't need a smart fucking refrigerator
And I'm sure you believe it when the government is there to serve the people, not the other way around.
There's more than just "firmware" in there
we are talking about $1000 appliances.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
as long as theres some chinese manufacturer thats motivated to sell a cheap regular one door fridge and a cheap microwave without internets, the cheapest option is always going to rule
LG is dead to me now
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Enjoy paying more
Enjoy getting hacked
Enjoy being spied on
Enjoy watching ads
Enjoy unnecessarily complex shit breaking and associated bill to have it fixed
Way to go Gold Star... way to piss away your brand.
The FCC opened up the 57-64 GHz range for unlicensed use. These frequencies are right around the resonance frequency of O2 so suffer severe attenuation. Range is expected to be about 30 feet. Devices supporting this frequency are expected to roll out later this year. In addition to the high attenuation, the higher bandwidth (about 600 Mbps to 1.2 Gbps of real transfer speed) means devices won't be transmitting on it as long as they do at 2.4 or even 5 GHz, resulting in much less interference. Mhe beam pattern of those little whip antennas on most routers is omnidirectional in the horizontal axis - their vertical range is limited. And most of the technology uses beam-forming as well, meaning even less interference (highest signal strength is only in one direction).
They're also opening up the 64-71 GHz band for unlicensed use in the future. So there's going to be plenty of short-range bandwidth for devices to use. The bigger question is going to be should these devices be interconnected. I think it's stupid to add WiFi to a refrigerator, toilet, garage door opener (makes some sense for a washer, dryer, and window blinds). But congestion isn't going to be a problem unless you insist on using 2.4 GHz.
Will they come with a "Mirai Ready" sticker on the box?
All the networks around me are secured.
What's the washer going to do, refuse to run if I don't give it my wi-fi password?
"We'll take their privacy away and Make Them PAY (more) for it!"
If I want my toaster or coffee maker on the Internet, I'll put it there. That is what Raspberry Pis are for, dammit!
Starting this year I will not be buying anything made by LG!!!!
A complicated washing machine your mom can't operate that uses hot water on the dark colors and cold on the whites. A TV that won't even let Dad change channels until he connects to a hotspot and logs into his Microsoft account. A complicated computerized refrigerator Grandma and Grandpa can't operate lets their food spoil, and they die of food poisoning. Nobody wants or needs this crap!
How ya like dat?
I think non-setup wifi on devices will be the equivalent of the blinking clock on VCR's of yeaster year. Who cares if it is setup, why bother.
When the compressor in the fridge starts up, it causes enough RF interference to knock everything off the wifi. Conversely, the microwaves that cook my food are now modulated.
As long as it's off by default and requires a physical switch to turn it on, I'd have no problem with that.
I personally wouldn't want to pay extra for it, but when weighing brands, sometimes you have to accept features you don't want to get the best deal. After all, we cannot pick the features like a buffet meal, but must live with whatever the manufacture bundles into a given product. It was that way before wi-fi also.
Table-ized A.I.
"Threatens" is a pretty inflammatory way to describe it. I would say that "offers" WiFi connectivity is more like it. FFS, if you don't want some device on your WiFi, then don't enter your WiFi password on the device.
How long before we see malware kits that hack these devices via firmware exploits? Set all the fridges in the USA to "freeze" or "off". Or turn on the camera and capture pix of folks walking around their kitchen in their underwear. Or inventory your bluetooth-enabled groceries, upload it to Walmart so they can target you with grocery mailers and spam that your pickles are expired, or upload it to your health insurance provider so they can raise your rates because of all the junk food you consume? You'll get a health insurance "discount" if you enable your fridge to upload your groceries, but pay top dollar if you choose privacy.
Then again maybe I can install Linux on my fridge, program it to upload my neighbor's data instead of mine.
>The worst thing my TV can do if hacked is stop working completely and forever.
Or it could broadcast your naughty porn to your employer.
Doesn't mean you have to connect it ;) But I agree...it's ludicrous.
What's to stop them from putting a 4G antenna or something like that inside?
Wait until they are connected to the cellular network. Remotely updating or bricking to their hearts content.
Why would it matter if the $1000 appliance uses z-wave instead of wifi? It's a perfectly good protocol for monitoring and controlling both simple and complex devices.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
because protocols are broken and then new ones are needed. In addition, z-wave is popular Europe, but not America (it DOES have issues).
As such, by using ethernet with POE, and then plugging in what is needed, issue solved.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
"The Marketing Division of LG is a bunch of mindless jerks..."
There he goes again, being excessively positive.
Companies should not put IoT their devices without 1) providing an "off" button, 2) setting aside money to support the product for 15 years.
Durable goods last between 10 and 20 years. It is irresponsible for a company to preposition computers will not be maintained to become part of future Botnets
I'll buy one. Just to pull out the wifi module so I can reverse engineer it so I can figure out how to remotely turn these Fridges into Ovens.
Lots of people say that they will block access at their router. What if the neighbors have open Wi-Fi?
It drives my family crazy whenever they come to my house with a new WiFi-enabled toy, but I am sure that no errant devices can make it onto my router without me entering their MAC address into the router's table.
I knew it! It's mind control!
"Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race." -Albert Einstein
That I happen to dislike LG's gear anyway - there's NO freaking way that I'm letting my fridge onto my network. I have ENOUGH trouble keeping everything running at home and at work as it is - I don't need more stuff making noise on my networks.
A thousand pounds of wood moving at 300 feet per minute. Don't get in the way.
For everyone thinking that a firewall or simply not connecting it to a router will work, wait till it comes with a lifetime cellular connection. That is the future, people will love that it is no hassle and companies will love it because more customers will be compliant subjects.