Slashdot Mirror
George Orwell's '1984' Tops Amazon's Bestseller List (theguardian.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: Sales of George Orwell's dystopian drama 1984 have soared after Kellyanne Conway, adviser to the reality-TV-star-turned-president, Donald Trump, used the phrase "alternative facts" in an interview. As of Tuesday, the book was the sixth best-selling book on Amazon. Comparisons were made with the term "newspeak" used in the 1949 novel, which was used to signal a fictional language that aims at eliminating personal thought and also "doublethink." In the book Orwell writes that it "means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them." The connection was initially made on CNN's Reliable Sources. "Alternative facts is a George Orwell phrase," said Washington Post reporter Karen Tumulty. Conway's use of the term was in reference to White House press secretary Sean Spicer's comments about last week's inauguration attracting "the largest audience ever". Her interview was widely criticized and she was sub-tweeted by Merriam-Webster dictionary with a definition of the word fact. In 1984, a superstate wields extreme control over the people and persecutes any form of independent thought. UPDATE 1/24/17 6:56PM PST: Orwell's dystopian novel is now the #1 Best Seller in Books on Amazon.
First we should make sure it's not the Trump administration buying these. They might be mistaken for operating manuals.
Seeing Sean Spicer claiming the biggest audience ever reminded me of the Iraqi Minister of Information.
The right has now usurped what was once the sole domain of the left -- Relativism.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
Ironic really, since the USA is more like Brave New World than Nineteen Eighty Four
"I bless every day that I continue to live, for every day is pure profit."
Particularly for the part where people actually start calling dictionaries "political", and the definition of objectivity and facts "liberal"... I think we'll soon see a decree from the Orange one renaming the Mississippi "De-Nial".. No wait, that would make sense. :/
The current discourse is insanity, but it amply proves what happens when you make entertainment of history, no effort is ever made to teach people to think and the common man is treated by nothing but contempt. The great irony is that everyone wakes up now, because we've got an non-establishment monkey in the White House. But if we're honest, it's factually no different from what we've been treated to for years and years by other, established politicians and multinational corporations, the only difference is how obvious the lies are, and how fervently they are defended by the useful idiots. It's sad to see it would take something like this to get the media and people in general to finally take a stand against the shameless lies we're fed every day, but I suppose late shall the sinner awaken.
I can only hope Trump and his lickspittles serves as a general alarm clock for our society, so we all start to demand the truth from those who claim to "represent" us, or "lead" us, and stop accept being told the most outrageous and shameless lies, no matter who it might be who tell them. I'm not optimistic though, but as everyone knows, I've been wrong before. Let us pray I'm wrong this time too.
Signed
AC
Why do I get a bad feeling that masses of people will read that book and come to a wrong conclussion just to justify their own point of view? I guess I am glad that many people will read it though.
I really hope SJWs will realize their fight to purge the language of "bad words" is in fact persecution of thoughtcrime.
If you ban "Uncle Tom's Cabin" from schools "because it uses the 'n' word and that's offensive", you're doing precisely what 1984 warns about.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
I saw a picture of the crowd from Trump's podium. From there the empty patches were not easily evident. From his angle it looked like there were people covering every patch of concrete if you didn't look carefully enough. And since it looks that way from where he way (literally) standing, the media must be lying - simple logic I guess.
"Everybody's naked underneath" -- The Doctor
Would 1984 be lawful to read in the 1984 world?
Watch that interview very carefully. There is no way she was talking about "other" facts that weren't being reported. She meant to say exactly what she said. The administration has "alternative facts" that better fit their agenda.
Look, I realize that there is this bitter rivalry in US society between liberals and conservatives. But try to put politics aside, and try to think as a sane human being.
Donald Trump is the guy who insisted Barack Obama is a Muslim and was not born in the US. He is the guy who once claimed he owned the Empire State Building, which is false and was false at the time. He is the guy who said he has been on the Time magazine "more than anybody" which is false. He is the guy who so often claimed that he never said something he just said a few days earlier. His Trump University has been trialed for fraud. One of his advisers is a guy who owns a right-wing conspiracy theory website that is specialized on the spreading of fake news.
Try to think about this rationally.
Donald Trump is either a serial liar or simply delusional. You can look all of his insanity up. If you believe him and his administration more than established, international media networks such as CNN, you have to face the fact that you have decided to stop being a rational thinking person.
As the CNN megapixel graphic showed, the Trump crowd was larger than reported. This seems a silly thing to fight over, since Trump's supporters are less likely to attend an inauguration than a rally anyway.
Really, though, why does this matter at all? Hint: it doesn't. The fuss over this was generated to take some attention away from the rally on the next day. This administration will seek to control journalists by distracting them and diluting their ability to ask the tough questions.
soylentnews.org
Nice to see public awareness of this book in the mainstream! Very nice! An informed public is a public inoculated against tyranny.
...RTFM?
Boy, has this place changed.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Best buy a paper copy...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07...
As the CNN megapixel graphic showed, the Trump crowd was larger than reported. This seems a silly thing to fight over, since Trump's supporters are less likely to attend an inauguration than a rally anyway.
You do know that according to the alt-right everything the mainstream media publishes is lies, lies and more lies, a stack of lies all the way down! So if CNN, a load bearing pillar of the main stream media, published a megapixel picture that seems to prove Trump's inauguration crowd was much larger than reported, by alt-right logic, that claim must be a baldfaced bloody lie. That picture must be a Photoshop manipulation and positive proof that Trump's inauguration crowd must indeed have been tiny. But all sarcasm aside crowd size is indeed a silly thing to fight over, especially after listening to Sean Spicer step onto a podium and tell a room full of reporters:
"Photographs of the inaugural proceedings were intentionally framed in a way, in one particular tweet, to minimise the enormous support that had gathered on the national Mall. Inaccurate numbers involving crowd size were also tweeted. No one had numbers, because the national park service, which controls the national mall, does not put any out. This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration period!
How is it possible to claim Trump's inauguration crowd was the largest in history if nobody had any numbers? The real irony here is that we would not be talking about this if Trump hadn't made such a big deal about it and if the entire right wing spin machine hadn't jumped on board to help him. Somebody should acquaint the White House press secretary and his team with the Streisand effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
It's much simpler than that.
They are lying cause their boss, who has handpicked them, is a liar and a sociopath.
A liar and a sociopath who has handpicked people who don't mind being told lies nor do they mind telling lies to reach their goal.
They are lying cause they are liars and sociopaths. Also... idiots who don't mind being lied to.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Conway was talking about facts that weren't being reported (i.e., other things Spicer said), not promoting some form of doublethink.
You're either a) brainwashed, b) a giant apologist, or c) just plain stupid. One thing you are certainly not is rational.
For one... "Brave New World" supports birth control.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Yes, Trump exaggerates, but he isn't alone in doing so. The bulk of the press was in the bag for Hillary, despise Trump, and the reporting shows it. What they report as fact is just as often opinion and deceitful framing as Trump is braggadocious.
And let's not forget that rational, intelligent people can disagree on matters of import, the significance of facts, and so forth without ceasing to be rational.
Your comment does a lot to convince me... that sabbedde is right. Merely calling names and proclaiming the other person is wrong suggests that you have no defensible point -- that you've resorted to pounding the table, because neither facts nor law are on your side.
I'm assuming those buying copies of 1984 are under the age of 30, maybe 35, since I can't imagine anyone older than that hasn't already read this at least once, seen the movie, is familiar with the overall theme from the book being discussed at least here in America almost constantly as far back as I can remember (the early 80s). I also expect the majority of these new potential readers also tend to lean left. I hope what they come away with is an understanding of what an Orwellian society would actually look like and realize how ridiculous they sound to the rest of us when they compare that to now. Maybe while they are at it they can pick up a copy of Anne Frank's diary and gain some perspective on what Nazism was about as well since their comparison of American politics to Nazism is not only ignorant but insulting and rather disgusting.
A "Big Brother" that spies on you in secret still fears you. It's when they don't care about secrecy that you have to start worrying.
Am I noticing a trend here?
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
You seem to not have a clear understanding of what a lie is. It was the Intel community that there may be blackmail material against Trump. It was Time Magazine who first reported the MLK bust was gone. And after it was reveled that Donna Brazil had passed information to the Clinton campaign, she was promptly fired, unlike anyone who lies in the Trump administration. I'm sure you would like to muddy the comparison between errors and lies, but people still have access to dictionaries to know the difference.
I am certain that Obama has said things that were not true, 100% certain. As has any serving president, sometimes knowingly, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it was unknowingly most of the time.
Yet this is nowhere near the incredible and outlandish, and frankly, sometimes outrageous claims that Donald Trump makes on a regular basis. If you are willing to put in the effort to provide me a list of Obamas "lies" while he was campaigning for president, I am willing to put in the effort to provide you with five Trump lies while he was campaigning for president - with references - for every Obama lie. It's a non-contest.
The Obama administration never lied about anything? Or perhaps now it's Trump people are actually checking and reporting it.
And let's not forget that rational, intelligent people can disagree on matters of import, the significance of facts, and so forth without ceasing to be rational.
Are you sure you're not talking about opinions? Isn't the definition of a "fact" that it is a non-debatable, unambiguous truth? Such as the fact that Obama is christian and was born in the United States? If you are trying to soften up facts and put them up to debate, you are already by your knees in that Orwellian universe the White House would like to have us.
The real irony here is that we would not be talking about this if Trump hadn't made such a big deal about it and if the entire right wing spin machine hadn't jumped on board to help him. Somebody should acquaint the White House press secretary and his team with the Streisand effect
That's not irony: it's the plan. Give people a big, easily disproven lie so the media can feel good about clearly demonstrating the Bad Things being done by the Evil Man. Ad nauseam. Meanwhile, actual bad things, like reversals of environmental protections, appointment of oligarchs set on disrupting the levers of government, and threats of federal suppression of local government migrate below the fold or back to page 4.
Not one iota, not a smidgen of lying in Obama's administration....
Obama: The attack on Benghazi was because of a YouTube video...
Press: Ok, sure, we believe it.
Trump: Lots of people saw my inauguration.
Press: LIAR!!!!
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken, On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
Cynical as he was, Mencken still had too much faith in the American people to believe the moron they eventually elected would also be a sociopathic, foreign-owned racist with a taste for sexual assault.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Amazing that people are willing to buy this from Amazon, even the SlashDot crowd seem to have forgotten this incident:
https://yro.slashdot.org/story...
....*does* read rather like a Obama/Hillary training manual. I suspect the folks buying it now are using it to read up on what kinds of fake news are likely to be tossed their way.
Ferret
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
Idiocracy.
What is Orwellian is the political correctness and all that shit. Trump is the exact oposite
Thankyou Trump and lol SJWs, turns out demonizing the average person isn't a winning strategy.
But look at the bright side. You still have your victimhood and sense of persecution.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
BTW... Who said anything about administration?
For one... There is no such thing as "Trump administration" yet. And clearly, there won't be one for quite some time.
Which is what happens when you hire a lazy, lying, incompetent bum prone to litigation to work for you.
And no one said it was "the administration" that's being a "liar and a sociopath" - it's Trump and the people he is picking who are liars, sociopaths and idiots.
Here, again, for those with reading issues.
They are lying cause their boss, who has handpicked them, is a liar and a sociopath.
A liar and a sociopath who has handpicked people who don't mind being told lies nor do they mind telling lies to reach their goal.
They are lying cause they are liars and sociopaths. Also... idiots who don't mind being lied to.
Also, tu quoque is a fallacy - not an argument.
Particularly when you reply to a "He's a lying sociopath and so are the people he's picking" carpet bombing with a fizzling firecracker like "Well... like the previous administration NEVER lied".
Not only are you neck deep in the fallacy septic tank, you're diving deeper by emphasizing your own attempt at false equivalence.
Which is pathetic, I know, but what CAN you do?
You can't just pick ANY random statement by ANY previous president and say "See? That's a lie." - at least 50% of those won't be lies.
Unlike with Trump, with whom telling truth happens to be more of a statistical error than accident.
Just get over it already. Trump won. Enjoy!
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Yes, I agree with what you say and cherry picking facts is a very serious concern. This is also frequently used by climate change deniers. What do you mean it's getting warmer? I have all the data right here from that one weather station in Alaska proving that temperatures have actually dropped in the last 60 years!
But yes, this is something that all sides of a political spectrum are always guilty of. That's why, in my opinion, it's very important to get your sources not just from one, or a select few news outlets. Especially not if they share the political alignment. Watch and read conservative news, and liberal ones. Diversify. Then think about it and form your own educated opinions. Research if you must. The truth is almost always somewhere in between.
But I truly think that regarding Trump, we are well beyond cherry picking facts. This man seems to make up reality as he goes.
Awesome to hear more people are reading English classic literature. They should read Animal Farm next.
Libya was a wealth socially advanced North African nation that offered full protected rights to WOMEN and RELIGIOUS MINORITIES. Hillary Clinton, in partnership with the zionists of Israel and the wahhabis of Saudi Arabia, utterly destroyed Libya- turning the ruins into an extremist islamic hellhole. Trump hating neo-liberals and neo-cons say "this is a GOOD thing", and so do all the SJW dribblers who love the mass murdering Clinton.
Indeed the neo-liberals (=100% of the mainstream media and Soros controlled FAKE 'indy' media) have supported every war on SECULAR Muslim autocracies, advancing the Israeli/Saudi agenda of extremist islam and wahhabi rule. Of course, the USA NEVER EVER attacks the extremist muslim nations in Saudi Arabia's sphere of control (and remember the sheeple are told that almost all the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi citizens).
1984 states that those who WRITE 'history' CONTROL history. During the HOLOCAUST of Libya, the BBC constantly published FAKE reports claiming the people of Libya wanted their country destroyed- culminating in a supposed video of Libyians celebrating the NATO bombing of their nation- a video that turned out to be Indians celebrating some unconnected festival in India that the BBC hoped their viewers would be too stupid to recognise. ITV published footage from a video game (passed off as 'real) claiming it was prove the Libyan leader attacked British troops.
The filth that runs Slashdot targets the 50% of total dribblers that voted for Clinton- knowing that said dribblers ignore every proof that their world view is completely WRONG, and want any fact that demonstrates the utter evil of the neo-liberals censored out of existence. And I post as a SOCIALIST who would naturally be on the opposite side to Trump, but cares to see the USA as it actual is- and thus understands the danger to Humanity posed by the neo-con and neo-liberal 'alliance'.
The pall of National Socialism dropping over the US.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Just as it's a fact that an American Ambassador was murdered under Hillary Clinton's watch.
And 2000 Americans where murdered in the WTC under George W. Bush's watch. What's your point?
Are you working for Trump? You seem to have picked up all the standard tactics used by his supporters:
- Claim that we misunderstood the statement
- Ad hominem the interviewer
- Blame the Democrats
- Allege conspiracy
- Claim everyone else is just as bad as Trump anyway
- Conflate opinion and fact
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Ironically we can now also track each of these purchases of the book "1984" to their purchasers and their addresses. And if the Amazon ebook version, then can also know exactly which page they are on at any moment and which pages they spend the most time lingering on.
You're s'posed to read the book first, then vote...
Watch that interview very carefully. There is no way she was talking about "other" facts that weren't being reported. She meant to say exactly what she said. The administration has "alternative facts" that better fit their agenda.
Look, I realize that there is this bitter rivalry in US society between liberals and conservatives. But try to put politics aside, and try to think as a sane human being.
Donald Trump is the guy who insisted Barack Obama is a Muslim and was not born in the US. He is the guy who once claimed he owned the Empire State Building, which is false and was false at the time. He is the guy who said he has been on the Time magazine "more than anybody" which is false. He is the guy who so often claimed that he never said something he just said a few days earlier. His Trump University has been trialed for fraud. One of his advisers is a guy who owns a right-wing conspiracy theory website that is specialized on the spreading of fake news.
Try to think about this rationally.
Donald Trump is either a serial liar or simply delusional. You can look all of his insanity up. If you believe him and his administration more than established, international media networks such as CNN, you have to face the fact that you have decided to stop being a rational thinking person.
Why be rational? Maybe it's time for revenge? Let's have some fun and be totally irrational! Trump was and is a birther, he denied that Obama was born in the US and thinks Obama is a crypto-muslim. Well let's start our own 'birther' movement, something in the spirit of JJ Angleton, like claiming that Trump is an FSB asset, a Russian mole. We can call it the 'moler movement'. It shouldn't be that hard, just point to how Trump seems to have a massive man-crush on Putin, how Trump appoints Putin friendly people in key positions, how Trump seems intent on dismantling NATO which is Putin's wet dream, how Trump married two women who are secretly members of the GRU, ... , the list goes on, let your imagination run riot, get in touch with your inner alt-right drone. Of course all of this stuff will be freely invented nonsense but that does not matter, we are post truth here! We believe all this is true and that makes it fact! Rex Tillerson is a Russian born sleeper agent sent to the US by the KGB during the cold war and he is Trump's FSB handler. Anybody who contradicts any of this is LYING!!! If somebody questions your theory on Tillerson ask for Tillerson's birth certificate, if they produce Tillerson's birth certificate, ask for the long form birth certificate, if they produce that claim it is forged. Always remember, in the post truth world you don't need proof, just have to believe. If they say Trump isn't an FSB asset, just ask them where the proof is, if they ask you for proof of your claims, ask they if they can disprove anything you said, wait until they have said two words and interrupt them rapidly with something like "...well then that proves me right!". Set up a web page, call the page "Schnurrbart" link to it everywhere so it tops the list of results for Trump searches on Google. Let's have four to eight years of endless fun watching alt-right crackpots getting hoisted by their own petard ... Dang! Cooking up conspiracy theories is FUN!! And we haven't even gottens started on trolling the alt-right over #GoldenShowerGate...
Orwell was an Optimist
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
However the coverage of the "hate crime" was front and center
It's still a problem: "A burst of hate incidents and crimes reported in the days following Donald Trump's election in November has eased, but hate activity remains above pre-election levels", the Southern Poverty Law Center says.Jan 5, 2017
The Obama administration never lied about anything?
Obviously, if anyone can find one false statement from Obama, it excuses an infinite number of deliberate lies from Trump. Right?
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Doublethink - "the acceptance of or mental capacity to accept contrary opinions or beliefs at the same time, especially as a result of political indoctrination." The very idea that there could be facts on the one hand, but officially endorsed alternative facts on the other, is an example of doublethink. Chuck Todd was refreshingly frank when presented with the notion: "Four of the five 'facts' he uttered were just not true. Look, alternative facts are not facts. They’re falsehoods."
Is an "alternative fact" like "Hillary Clinton has 100% chance of winning"?
That was the "consensus opinion" even going late into the election night.
https://archive.org/details/NI...
I would have thought there would be a rush on Walter Lippmann's "Public Opinion"
http://wwnorton.com/college/hi...
Thanks Archive .org and W.W. Norton.
Captain Picard ain't havin' none of it:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
And thank you Trumpites for the public education, as we see Conway and her fellow merry band of sociopaths try to create Newspeak before our very eyes.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I don't really recall them asserting that lies could be recoined as "alternate facts". That politicians and their minions lie is a given, that they would so obstinately declare outright falsehoods and then try to recast the obvious falsehoods as some variant on "facts" is a new one to me, at least in the West. This is indeed more a trick of authoritarians.
And for what exactly? Because the Mall wasn't nearly as filled for Trump's inauguration as for Obama's 2008 inauguration? Why would that matter? Even further, to claim Hillary Clinton's popular vote win was made up of fraudulent votes? Why would that matter? What counts is the Electoral College, not popular votes? It strikes me as completely idiotic, a squandering of what little political capital Trump has actually entered the White House with on moronic side issues that have no bearing on governance whatsoever.
I had begun to believe the claim that Trump's bluster was some sort of clever ploy, a strategic type of hyperbole. Now I'm beginning the man really is a fucking moron. The first rule of lying is don't lie when you can get easily caught, and don't lie when there's no advantage conferred. What the hell was the point of inauguration attendance claim? What is the point of the three million vote fraud claim? These lies are not only stupid and easily debunked, they do nothing to aid Trump's administration.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Even if you imagine Benghazi claims by the Obama Administration were a lie, then at least it was a lie that would be very difficult to disprove. Indeed, even Congress has never really been able to solidly hold the Administration to account.
And Trump's claim on the Inauguration wasn't that lots of people saw it, his claim was that the Mall was filled with people and that pictures showing it pretty sparsely attended were faked, which was easily debunked.
So what we arrive at is that Trump is actually a terrible liar. Being a liar is practically a requirement of being a politician, being a terrible liar is the hallmark of a bad politician.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
The GOP has been using it as a script, with them as Big Brother, at least since Reagan. It's just now clear to everyone (except the suckers of the alt-wrong), since Trump & co say exactly what the GOP's been saying since Nixon started his Southern Strategy, except they're too narcissistic and stupid to use the Approved Euphemisms.
"You want a view of the future? Picture a boot stomping on a human face, forever." - O'Brian to Winston. And for you on the right, so, how's you're bank account looking?
That's a great list! Can you make up "Bingo" cards with those on them? Then we can all play at home whenever Trump or one of his aides is on TV. Heck, give them to interviewers, and they can just shout out "BINGO!" once they've accumulated enough rhetorical and logical fallacies. If we're going to participate in a large-scale political farce, we might as well make the most out of it.
This is the best news that I have heard in a long time. I really think that an understanding of Orwell's finer points is one of the most useful intellectual tools you can have in an information-driven society, never mind how current events are unfolding. However, allow me to relate a story.
Over christmas I was in Coles bookstore buying something. I overheard two women, first arguing about who wrote 1984. Then one of them pulled out there phone and asked how to spell Orwell. They debated that for a bit and eventually figured it out. Then she asked:
"How many books are there in the series?"
"Um, I think it's just the one."
"What genre is it? Is it like, horror or thriller, or fantasy?"
"I'm not sure, I just know that she wants it."
At this point the cashier and I shared a look and knowing laugh.
There's misinformation, lies, and bold-faced lies.
I don't trust either, but when somebody is willing to lie in spite of obvious and outstanding facts/evidence, it makes me worry not just that they're a liar but that they have some sort of mental condition which puts them out of touch with reality.
The real irony here is that we would not be talking about this if Trump hadn't made such a big deal about it and if the entire right wing spin machine hadn't jumped on board to help him. Somebody should acquaint the White House press secretary and his team with the Streisand effect:
I'm not entirely convinced that there isn't at least SOME strategy here.
Trump is known for his ability to distract from real issues by uttering exaggerated, outlandish, and even insane things. So, we all end up talking about how crazy Trump's comment was, instead of real political issues of the day.
Realistically, what does this sort of statement do? Yes, it draws attention to the size of the crowd, and he we are still talking about it several days later. BUT does that actually hurt Trump's support? Those who support Trump already aren't going to be persuaded he's a liar or whatever after all this time -- there's already been ample evidence of that before.
So, from the lens of Trump supporters, what this statement did was make everyone look petty for trying to diminish the size of the crowd at the inauguration. If anything, Trump supporters are likely to even dig in their heels more and act persecuted as the media keeps harping on it.
Meanwhile, what is Trump REALLY doing over the past several days, as we sit here and keep debating about the size of his crowd?? What other horrible things are going on that the media is devoting fewer resources to, because they're distracted by this nonsense debate about one number?
I'm not saying this is an effective strategy in the long run, and I'm not sure it even is a strategy. But I *DO* think we should be on the look-out for "Streisand effect" stuff from Trump, because he THRIVES on generating publicity over things that normal people probably wouldn't want to be associated with, all the while drawing attention away from real debate on real issues.
Trump doesn't exaggerate. He lies. Repeatedly and pathetically. He doesn't even try to tell the truth.
Trump is mentally ill.
because neither facts nor law are on your side.
Hate to break it to you sweetheart, but facts ARE on my side. (I don't know what you think law might have to do with it, though. If the rest of your post wasn't so magnificently idiotic, that would stand out as pathetically stupid) Conway lied, Spicer lied, and Trump lied. This is so fucking obvious only a fucking retard (everyone's looking at YOU) would think otherwise.
Well, the copy that is currently the best seller is shown as the "Mass Market Paperback"
The issue was with Amazon recalling an eBook. This is a physical copy, so unless Amazon is going to break into houses to "recall" it most purchases are probably safe in that regard.
This seems to assert that the only verifiable and useful knowledge is that which you directly observe. In fact, human observation is in many cases rather faulty. Our cognitive machinery used to store and recall memories can be manipulated, either intentionally or unintionally, so I'm afraid observation alone is insufficient. How science works is by demanding that experiments can be repeated to produce a similar outcome, to overcome biases, cognitive problems and memory issues.
The fact is that Obama has a Hawaii birth certificate that is like other birth certificates from the state at that time. The preponderance of evidence is that Obama was born on American soil, and thus was constitutionally permitted to become President of the United States. Trying to claim that you can't tell is nothing more than a sort of "Birther lite" position.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
That's it? That's all you got? Benghazi.
Trump is mentally ill. He is fcking insane. Lost touch with reality. Major parts of every speech he has given has shown to packed full of lies.
And the best you got is Benghazi?
That's my view as well, and it's why I think while the Republicans will enjoy a brief period in which they can get their agenda pushed through, in the long term he's going to be an anchor around them. Congress is probably secure in 2018, largely because it's mainly Democratic incumbents, but if he continues in this vein, he's going to end up alienating a lot of the voters the GOP needs.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
That's it? That's all you got? Benghazi.
"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor."
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Fortunately, this won't go on all that long.
I see sales of Animal Farm are trending as well. (#1 in satire fiction).
It would be doubleplusgood if people would apply the analogy to the current situation.
The audience is not just the people on the ground, but also the people watching at home. And Trump’s inauguration broke live video streaming records.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Most of them would still be struggling to finish it, so I don't see your point.
You're right, that it doesn't matter. And the failure of those reporting it on both sides to point out that DC, and suburban DC are highly blue zones. Not to mention the historical significance of Obama's first inauguration...many showed up just for that. It's not an apples to apples comparison.
Just another day in Paradise
Isn't the definition of a "fact" that it is a non-debatable, unambiguous truth?
But what good are true facts with false context?
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
So you have no criticism of a man who insists, despite all the evidence, that his inauguration was the largest attended in history? It's all about the Democrats, eh?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I think its a question of timing too - we're what a week into Trump's presidency and we already have more material than 8 years of Obama...
After 8 years of how Bush was Hitler 1000x and he was definitely going to cause the Apocalypse at least during the Obama years this place got a little more bearable. Still left of center but somewhat rational. Now it looks like its back to 24/7 Buzzfeedesque hysteria, OMG the President is Satan incarnate, and jumping on every meaningless misconstrued nonstory as the end of the world. Goodbye sane Slashdot, we hardly knew you.
Needlessly leaving Americans to die under siege, and then lying about the cause isn't big enough for you? Why, because it wasn't money-related? Then, how about Obama's $1.7 billion ransom payment to Iran? Or, the lies surrounding the ACA? Or Obama's own lies about his knowledge of Hillary's private server?
And, each of the people still locked up in Guantanamo might also beg to differ with your assertion.
sig: sauer
Let's start here.
http://www.politifact.com/trut...
Just another day in Paradise
see CNN's incredible zoomable shot of the crowd from the podium. It really does look like it goes all the way back down the mall - so I can see their confusion when they saw the overhead shots and it looked completely different.
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/01/politics/trump-inauguration-gigapixel/
Get we get an impeachment now, please?
I'm not a grammar Nazi, but we should get you one for slaughtering that sentence.
More seriously, which specific "treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors" would you like to impeach him for? And, will you be able to convince the House to start the proceedings? If not, you're screwed.
Just another day in Paradise
Plenty of photos I've seen on the internet and from friends who were there do not indicate anything of the sort of "sparsely attended". That is not even counting the people who were not permitted to attend due to protesters and riots.
I bought that book and Catch 22 recently to better understand Trump's opposition.
All political sides use the same "playbook" to varying degrees.
What is more disturbing to me though is that when I look at what is supposed to be the enlightened, reasoning, rational and liberal side what I see is pretty bad.
We all know about Christian evangelicals, neo-Nazis the far right, ultra-nationalists and so on. There's a hot bed of extremism however on the other side that is really only coming to the fore.
There are people who believe in superior, master morality, it doesn't actually have to come from a supernatural being. There are people who think not being far-right means being far-left. There are people who take positive notions such as the movement against racism and turn them into irrational negative notions. There are people that think not being racist means hating your own race yet loving all overs. There are people who think that not being ultra-nationalistic means hating your nation and it's people. There are people in camps that are traditionally liberal and very for freedom of speech lobbying for not only speech crime but thought crime.
This kind of madness has been going on for a long time but has started to reach new heights. There are plenty of liberals that likely simply didn't vote because of it or even voted for Trump as a part of a backlash.
It's a kind of weird transition period in the west where we have been moving away from one set of extremes but are now crossing the threshold moving into the same opposite extreme. The methods these people use are pretty subversive. To take one simple example, Islamophobia when it was originally created gives a list of what is clearly wrongthink and rightthink. In schools propaganda is being taught with the aim of reinforcing the notion of blasphemy by teaching that simple words, opinions and beliefs are basically as bad as genocide, by that I don't even mean things like if someone believes in genocide, merely if people don't like certain things.
Spot on. I see that victim card being played so often when no one is doing any harassment. The average person is being left alone. People do make fun of the dumb as rocks idots out there, but those aren't average people.
Did Obama ever tell a lie so completely blatantly false as Trump's easily refutable lie about having the largest inauguration ever? That was completely ego driven and is a lie about a completely insignificant topic. If Trump would like about something to silly as that, then how can you ever believe him on something of importance?
Yes, EVERY politician lies. However except for a few rare cases of brain disorder they try to make their lies sound like the truth.
The first example is subjective, you can have an intelligent argument about whether that was true or false or what percentage of culpability the video had. The second example is wrong, as Trump did not say "lots of people", he said it was the most viewed inauguration in history. Which can be objectively shown as false, nost just subjectively.
Now of course, Trump could have made an honest mistake. But with his ego he will never admit to a mistake and he will never let his staff admit that he made a mistake. He's doubling down on something utterly unimportant.
Well yes, if one chooses to be a nihilist, then nothing really matters. But I wonder if you're prepared to follow that particular world view all the way, or whether you just use it to justify apathy or a sort default contrarianism.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I missed the part where the Administration or the ACA stripped your doctor away from you.
You can *definitely* make the argument that free-market reaction to market dynamic changes resulting from the ACA resulted in some people losing access to doctors they once had due to rule changes within private insurance entities, but you're saying that Obama saying that is a lie, or a deliberate untruth.
The only untruth I see here, is your attempt to redefine lying to mean being wrong or naive. It would make sense, since actual lying, and attempting to forcefully alter perception of reality, something we're getting a rather sobering taste of at the moment, is a whole different level of fucked up.
No, sir, the liar appears to be you. Next up, shall we tango over Benghazi?
It worked that way with the "but Hillary uses email!" thing despite how trivial it actually was. Powell (among others) did almost the same thing but worse in using a commercial internet service provider that could have read his secret email as did a few others. The "missing emails" fuss was hilarious after all the excuses about how it was OK for the White House to lose a few years of emails under Bush.
Autocrats take the personal more seriously than the political and use the machinery of state to deal with it. That the first press conference of the administration was over something so utterly trivial as to reassert Trump's claim about crowd numbers and nothing else (one statement, no questions allowed) is an illustration of this.
Trump doesn't see himself as the leader of the American people. He sees himself as the owner of America and it's people.
Even a nearly empty glass looks full from underneath.
You are right that making assertions as to crowd volume using one of those photographs is entirely misleading, but it's not the one you think.
Sparsely attended is, of course, a relative term. Relative to all Presidential Inaugurations in recent memory, it was sparsely attended. Relative to the protests against the new president, it was very sparsely attended. Relative to the presidents claims about how heavily attended it was, it was extremely sparsely attended.
Obama being christian is not a fact at all, I would guess he is an ateist (like me --- and I would guess Trump as well), but certainly it is debatable and not a fact.
How nice of you to bring that site up. Lets compare Obamas record
http://www.politifact.com/pers...
With that of Trump so far:
http://www.politifact.com/pers...
Obama: 48% True or Mostly True vs 16% for Trump
Obama: 26% Mostly False or worse, vs 70% for Trump
Obama: "Most transparent administration ever"
This is fun to watch! Post a well publicized and provable lie by our ex-president, watch some partisan zealot try to defend it and laugh, laugh, laugh!
We could go on like this for WEEKS!
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
Did anyone say they did?
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Signal to noise ratio. Its really smart actually. Fill the airwaves and people's "give-a-fuck-o-meter" with useless discussions of utter horse shit (which partisan dumb asses and the media eat right up) and you deplete the ability for the public to discern what is actually going on and to really give a fuck.
Manufactured distraction, fervor, and outrage is the perfect environment and cover for an administration to do things that fuck the American people. And partisan idiots can't help but play right into it, screaming how this is exactly what they said would happen, agitating their imaginary foes on the "other side of the aisle," bringing out their broadest brush yet with which to paint half of America as disreputable and irremediable. Ha! Fools, every single one.
He has been in office less than a week and he already has the press and talking heads chasing sticks like the bitches they are. Many of the most partisan are ready and raring to fight their fellow American brothers and sisters to the death over complete nonsense. Issues are left by the wayside in the rush to condemn others and prove who is "right." Ideological differences become declarations of war instead of fertile ground for discussion. All they can talk about is what he says they can talk about. The only issues that are in the media and on people's minds, the only issues that matter, are within the bandwidth of what he has established with his antics.
In other words, you and the media have been pwnt, if you haven't noticed already.
Its going to be a long four years.
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
So.... people were turned into pandas?
7 pages of broken promises vs. not yet rated...http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/browse/. I'll take actions over words, and give Trump a chance, even though I didn't vote for him.
Just another day in Paradise
I was referring to a legal aphorism, and you, "sweetheart", are still pounding the table. If you had an ounce of self-awareness, you might realize how neatly you fit the stereotype of a whiny leftist throwing a fit because the leftist doesn't understand the world.
The thing that matters, as you will soon work out, is that utter trivialities are getting so much attention. That utterly pointless White House press conference to defend the lie was not done by people working for free.
Undoing bad mod
The map is not the territory.
B. You're in no position to make that determination.
Take a few deep breaths and calm down. Forget how much hate you have for Trump (hate blinds) and read a transcript of the interview. Pretend you're trying to wade through spaghetti code, it'll help keep activity in the rational regions of your brain and tone down emotional responses.
I have heard many definitions of "fact" and/or "truth". That is not one of them.
I'm saying the statement was presented to you with the context entirely replaced by people with an interest in harming the speaker. As for your list, you could have gotten that from James Carville. That was his playbook when he was working for Bill Clinton. He was so effective that it became the dominant strategy for dealing with opposition to Democrats.
What do you find so threatening about being nice to your fellow humans? If little people don't like being called midgets, what's the harm in not calling them midgets? Or are you such a slave to your pride that you can't tolerate any external influence on your behavior?
were health services. im sure that cutting off their funding will have really positive effects on millions of children's lives...
How exactly have you "suffered" under Obama?
You're defending a proven lie and distorting facts, and you dare suggest I'm out of touch?!?!? You clearly have no clue how stupid you make yourself look. Because you're too stupid to realize it.
C'mon, I dare you to try bring some FACTS to show how Trump, Spicer and Conway ALL didn't lie. Prove that their claims that the inauguration was the biggest ever is true. C'mon, lets deal with FACTS.
CT: You did not answer the question of why the President asked the White House Press Secretary to come out in front of the podium for the first time and utter a falsehood [emphasis mine]. Why did he do that? It [emphasis mine] undermines the credibility of the entire White House Press Office.
KAC: No it [emphasis mine] doesn't. Don't be so overly dramatic about it [emphasis mine] Chuck. You're saying it's [emphasis mine] a falsehood. And they're giving ... Sean Spicer, our Press Secretary gave alternative facts.
Now, what you're saying is:
Conway was talking about facts [emphasis mine] that weren't being reported (i.e., other things Spicer said),
So, you're talking about multiple facts, several things. CT and KAC are clearly talking about a singular thing, the "uttered a falsehood" CT was asking about. This is plain. This is obvious. And the singular thing that they are both talking about is the LIE that more people attended the inauguration than ever before. The same question she over and over and over again tried to evade.
There is NO QUESTION that's what she was referring to. NONE. Unless ... You're either a) brainwashed, b) a giant apologist, or c) just plain stupid. One thing you are certainly not is rational.
The thing that matters is the propaganda and that we now have yet another president who has no problem with lying to America.
CNN is not the president's press secretary.
The only untruth I see here, is your attempt to redefine lying to mean being wrong or naive.
O'rly? Either you're incredibly ignorant of the events, or you're a shill. In either case, it's not worth debating with you about it.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
hey, we here in Africa is just glad Trump is there. Middle finger to all the Americans who always thought our leaders are mad
I've never really dug into it, but IIRC there was a lot of unrest going on that day, much of it probably because of the video. At first, it seemed reasonable to think Benghazi was part of that unrest, and we found out later that was not the case.
If the best you can do to claim the Obama administration liars is an unsourced (and hence undated) claim that they said something that was plausible but false, you must think it one of the most honest administrations the US has had.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
That was beyond Obama's control. If you like your policy, you can keep your policy, but only as long as your insurance company allows you. That would have been better. The ACA is a very qualified success, and had a lot of unforeseen consequences, lots of them based on what insurance companies actually did.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
How many of them have been policy-related? How many involved people being imprisoned or killed?
sig: sauer
Not at all, You're making a mess of a bunch of facts, that the article you cited lays out, though draws its own conclusions from.
A. The Administration knew that due to normal turnover, people in the individual market would end up on ACA plans pretty quickly. The ACA and government does not force this turnover. It's caused by *the insurance customers, and insurers*. Those people don't get to "keep" their current insurance, ACA or not.
B. The Administration erroneously assumed that the grandfather clauses would shield individual market people who actually keep their plan, which is the group that doesn't belong to the turnover group. This assumption turned out to be wrong for various reasons- one of which was that states told their insurers to cancel plans and send renewals instead of amend them, another of which was that the regulations were tight enough that anybody in the long-term individual market who's insurance carrier made significant changes to their policy instead of cancelling it would lose their grandfather status. The Administration failed to account for what the market would do in that regard when faced with the ACA.
I'm not defending the ACA here. It was, for obvious reasons, a big fucking mess. It accomplished some good things, and was made in the direction of people with a good-intentioned goal, but the resulting bill was Frankenstein's Monster with unpredictable outcomes.
I'm also not defending the naivety of the Administration from the people who wrote the regulations, to the guy who was the mouthpiece of the whole thing. But there is simply zero evidence that anyone on the executive side was lying. They were just stupid.
The NBC article is written by someone who doesn't really understand what he's reading. Simply a shitty journalist. And you just lacked the critical thought to see where he went wrong.
I kept my doctor. ACA's failing was that it was a subsidy for for-profit insurance companies. And doctors left those groups, as they changed with ACA. ACA didn't do it. ACA would have let everyone keep their doctor. But the for-profit doctors and for-profit insurance companies found it more profitable to juggle associations, so some doctors left some insurance companies, and joined others. If one under ACA wanted to, they could have kept their doctor, but may have had to change their insurance carrier to do so.
Or, for all we know the complaints were lies.
Learn to love Alaska
And for what exactly?
Why would that matter?
What the hell was the point of inauguration attendance claim?
What is the point of the three million vote fraud claim?
Have you seen any mention of Trumps divestment of his personal business lately?
How about Trumps tax records?
Or is the media focused elsewhere such as irrelevant inauguration attendance and impossible to prove voting fraud?
Keep downplaying Benghazi -- there's no clearer attribute for a Hillary apologist. Your blind devotion is typical. Indeed, this same devotion is seen on the right as well. But, when the facts simply do not support your almost religious devotion and everyone can see it, and then you engage in name calling in a feeble attempt to recover, you lose all credibility. Hillary and Obama fucked up on Benghazi. They dropped the ball before the siege. They were negligent/inept during the siege. They then lied to the family members of those who were killed. Then, they lied to the American public. Then, they lied about lying to both the family members and the public.
sig: sauer
Yes, but it's also propaganda over something so mind numbingly trivial - not a good sign.
Hey Trump cheerleader - how do you feel about paying 20% more for cars, fruit, computers and gasoline to fund the vanity project of the wall?
I wonder how long it will take you to catch on to why we are complaining about the guy and the obvious problem of having him in charge of anything important.
Just as it's a fact that an American Ambassador was murdered under Hillary Clinton's watch.
And two were murdered when Ford was President. One each under LBJ, Nixon, Carter. What's your point?
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
If you think I voted for Trump, or Hillary, you are so incredibly vapid I don't know where to start with idiots like you.
Nothing I stated is in support of Trump. I am merely pointing out the behavior of you humans that allowed him to not only take office, but to also have both his detractors and supporters dancing around on strings like marionettes.
You poor stupid creature. You can't even understand when someone is agreeing with you and providing the unvarnished truth. You are well and truly trapped.
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.