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IBM, Remote-Work Pioneer, is Calling Thousands Of Employees Back To the Office (qz.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report: Less than a year into her tenure as IBM's chief marketing officer, Michelle Peluso prepared to make an announcement that she knew would excite some of her 5,500 new employees, but also, inevitably, inspire resignation notices from others. In a video message, Peluso explained the "only one recipe I know for success." Its ingredients included great people, the right tools, a mission, analysis of results, and one more thing: "really creative and inspiring locations." IBM had decided to "co-locate" the US marketing department, about 2,600 people, which meant that all teams would now work together, "shoulder to shoulder," from one of six different locations -- Atlanta, Raleigh, Austin, Boston, San Francisco, and New York. Employees who worked primarily from home would be required to commute, and employees who worked remotely or from an office that was not on the list (or an office that was on the list, but different than the one to which their teams had been assigned) would be required to either move or look for another job. Similar announcements had already been made in other departments, and more would be made in the future. At IBM, which has embraced remote work for decades, a relatively large proportion of employees work outside of central hubs. (By 2009, when remote work was still, for most, a novelty, 40% of IBM's 386,000 global employees already worked at home). [...] "When you're playing phone tag with someone is quite different than when you're sitting next to someone and can pop up behind them and ask them a question," Peluso says. Not all IBM employees see it that way.

303 comments

  1. Stealth Layoff by Greyfox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe they just figured out how to get rid of a bunch of employees without having to pay severances or unemployment.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is exactly how Reddit did it. Eliminate WFH employees, eliminate everyone that doesn't want to or can't physically relocate, and you've downsized while making it seem like it was the departing employees choice to leave.

    2. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!
      We have a winner.
      Please exit through the gift shop and pick up your prize on the way out.

    3. Re:Stealth Layoff by gweihir · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is however really the most demented way to do it, because only those that are good at what they do (and hence have other prospects) will leave. The ones staying will include all that have no prospects. Do this several times and you may as well close down the department and re-start from scratch.

      Why again are the people that make such decisions so much money? Oh right, because they know how to give the appearance of knowing how to do their job.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    4. Re:Stealth Layoff by Penguinisto · · Score: 3

      This, exactly this.

      I mean seriously... in the age of corporate IM and collaboration(e.g. Webex) applications, why the hell are they complaining about "phone tag"? Just require your employees to keep their damned IM app open if you're that worried about it. I mean, IBM isn't exactly running a commodities trading house, so it's not like they need split-second employee response times...
      --
      In general though, a hybrid solution is best in my opinion... you come in a day or two each week for meetings and suchlike, then work from home the rest of the time so you can have a quiet place to concentrate (that is, as long as your family is educated/smart enough to leave you alone).

      I say this for a couple of reasons:
      * Face-time. Politics(sadly) and team cohesion requires physically getting together periodically.
      * Meetings are best conducted together as a physical when possible, mostly because even video doesn't really help you gauge the room when speaking/listening/etc. This isn't true for all meetings, but for most of them, it holds true.

      Conversely, working from home allows you to concentrate with a minimum of interruption. Yeah, IMs are the suck, but at least allow you to finish up whatever little thought/task you had going before you answer it.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    5. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Maybe they just figured out how to get rid of a bunch of employees without having to pay severances or unemployment.

      Exactly.

      Everyone has their phone in their pocket. As someone who tele-works to a job across the country, if Michelle Peluso feels like she's "playing phone tag" with people, it's because they don't want to talk to her.

    6. Re:Stealth Layoff by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      IM doesn't fix the phone tag problem. I IM you a message. 20 minutes later, you look at your IM app and respond. By then I'm out at lunch, I IM you back an hour later. Then you're in a meeting. Repeat. It solves it about as much as voicemail did.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    7. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't come in a day or two a week. IBM has shuttered so many offices that unless you live in 1 of 6 locations you lose you job unless you move. I know multiple people wrapped up in this, one even offered to rent an apartment and be in town every other week. They shot her down. She was told commit to at least 4 days/week or find another job. Another friend is taking care of his father with bad dementia. Relocating him from familiar surroundings is a no go and there's a lack of other job opportunities in his town, so he's commuting 2+hours each way while he looks for a new job.

    8. Re: Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Probably because ALL women leaders, they are raging bitches. IBM will follow suit like yahoo and other women-driven into the ground companies.

      Women just can not run large companies. They are not professional when it gets down to dealing with problems. They take everything personal and are vindictive. It is how they think. They care for thier direct family and will literally kill anyone else. Its nature.

      Men and women think differently. It is a scientificly proven biological fact. When this stupid social experiment is completed. Our companies are decimated by women, recovered by men, and they will be in the spot they are best at. Secondary support. It plays to thier strengths and the only shame from it is other women. The bitches just can't get along.

      See them get upset over wearing the same white shirt on TV? A guy sees he is wearing the same shoes as me. Says cool, nice style.

      For men we look for similarities to join forces. Women look for differences for conflict. - this is the truth we all know.

    9. Re:Stealth Layoff by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

      Voicemail requires more time to obtain the same amount of information that a quick glance at an IM would provide. It also puts the onus on the listener, the one who is being asked something, to figure out what is being asked from a rambling thought stream. When people are forced to put their desires in text form, they will subconsciously organize it coherently and completely before sending it off to you.

      To discourage people from leaving me voicemails I check them only when the system starts emailing me warnings that the box is full. And because the red light has been repurposed in my mind to mean "the telephone is working," I usually pick a short one to not delete so that the light remains on after I've deleted the other ~50 messages.

    10. Re:Stealth Layoff by rickb928 · · Score: 2

      I work from home one day a week. And I miss having team mates handy to discuss something quick, or refresh my memory on an issue, or jsut to hear what they are doing and realize we have a site wide issue ballooning.

      Working from home all the time would diminish our effectiveness. I'm not really happy being isolated that one day, but we adapt for that. To rely on 'instant' chat would be annoying - Skype for Business is annoying by itself, offering to make calls when all I wanted was the phone number off the contact page, please stop trying to help me, ok? OK?

      While this may be a ploy to do a RIF without being spotted, around here the open plan cubeless floor layout was sold initially as a collaborative enhancement, then to permit teams to be flexibly located, and finally, the truth - save space when average vacancies were 20-30% every day but Friday when it was 80%. An instant reduction in required real estate of 20-30% solved a few problems. Going to Agile development also aided this, but that doesn't lend itself to WAH, just closer teams and collaborative, face to face (aka noisy) work environments.

      IBM might be doing either or both; RIF by relocating, or getting face to face back in the business. I'm frankly surprised that creative teams can function better apart than together, but that just means I define 'creative' differently than they do.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    11. Re:Stealth Layoff by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      I'm not arguing VM vs IM. IM is better for almost everything. But IM doesn't solve the problem of not being able to connect and have an ongoing conversation- the phone tag problem.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    12. Re:Stealth Layoff by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      ---Or they don't know how to IM while scanning the minutiae email...

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    13. Re: Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      let's hope this is sarcasm. Otherwise, it is a laundry list of cliches, assumptions and misogyny.

    14. Re: Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Came here for this kind of comment -- Wasn't disappointed.

      On the serious side, a blanket statement like this is misogynistic... BUT not without a grain of truth.

      The problem is with the kinds of dysfunctional personalities that inevitably claw their way to the C-suites -- male or female. They're all narcissistic. Some are borderline psychopathic. Combine that with the classic gender-role behavior and with the known psycho-social-behavioral differences between men and women, and you wind up with the stereotypical "Queen Bee" or "bitch queen" female executive. Every bit as control-freak, out-of-touch and possessing the same kind of poor judgement as a man, just filtered through the lens of the female gender role (which she will emphatically deny).

    15. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's only a problem if you are the type of person that people like to ignore on IM.

    16. Re: Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should never trust anything that bleeds one time per month. Amen.

    17. Re: Stealth Layoff by ruir · · Score: 0

      I label anyone that mentions misogyny as a sexist and if it has a dick, a bastard traitor of the own sex.
      The opposite of feminism is machismo, nobody ever talks about misandry.
      Fuck you.

    18. Re:Stealth Layoff by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm guessing if you "telecommute" or work from home in India....you are immune to this new rule and you will continue to be allowed to do so....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    19. Re:Stealth Layoff by El+Rey · · Score: 2

      It's way better. If I am in a meeting and get an IM and can respond now I will. If I get a voice mail or call, it's too disruptive and I won't.

      Also there is an underlying false premise that when in the office people don't:

      ever leave their desk
      ever have meetings with people who aren't you and can't be found
      ever use the bathroom
      ever go to the kitchen to get coffee
      ever go talk to their friend on another floor
      etc.

      The idea that people in an office are always at their desks and available is BS. I have IM on my phone. If I'm at home and get IM I will respond. If I'm in the office and get an IM I will respond. If I don't respond, I'm either talking to someone more important than you or taking a dump so back off already...

    20. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IM doesn't fix the phone tag problem. I IM you a message. 20 minutes later, you look at your IM app and respond. By then I'm out at lunch, I IM you back an hour later. Then you're in a meeting. Repeat. It solves it about as much as voicemail did.

      Well, 20 minutes lag is hardly "instant" is it? You might want to switch software.
      Seriously though, why is this an issue for people working at the different locations than at the same location? If you make phone calls through the IM so that it shows you're on the phone, the result is the same as if you were sitting next to the person, although maybe working different hours.

      To summarize: if the co-worker sitting next to you is constantly on the phone or away from the desk in meetings, it's just as effective to communicate with them via IM or even voicemail.

    21. Re:Stealth Layoff by Calydor · · Score: 1

      Being in the same building wouldn't even solve most of the problems that started this tangent. At lunch? Off the clock. In a meeting? Yeah, YOU barge into a meeting to ask that question, see how that goes. Gone to the bathroom? Just learn to friggin' WAIT for a response. You might even get a CONSIDERED response instead of a middle finger.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    22. Re:Stealth Layoff by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This, exactly. They are trying to cheat their employees out of unemployment benefits, and if I were telecommuting and unable to relocate, I would refuse to accept the terms and I would not hand in my resignation either. I would make them fire me and let their HR department know that I expected unemployment and a severance package as if I were laid off. If they try to withhold unemployment benefits, I would get a lawyer and start a class action for unemployment benefits, legal fees and punitive damages for bad faith and contact my state AG to start an investigation.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    23. Re:Stealth Layoff by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      I'm not arguing VM vs IM. IM is better for almost everything.

      Per my earlier post, I turn IM fucking OFF....it is a constant intrusion on my concentration...pops up, blinking on tray...ugh.

      And..people seem to bug you on it for more innocuous reasons "Hey, what's up?" I'm as sociable a person as can be when not working, but when I'm trying to concentrate, leave me the fuck alone unless there's a fire somewhere.

      I turn it off, and only turn it on when I need to hit a meeting where there is screen sharing, or an emergency after someone emails or calls me.

      I prefer email...is asynchronous, it doesn't pop up and bug me...and it provides a better CYA paper trail of a conversation, IMHO.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    24. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      CSC and HP have been using this exact same tactic as well, over the past year. Stealth layoffs.

    25. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not arguing VM vs IM. IM is better for almost everything. But IM doesn't solve the problem of not being able to connect and have an ongoing conversation- the phone tag problem.

      IM: From Fred: When can I call you?

    26. Re:Stealth Layoff by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

      Well, that and China, and Russia and anywhere IBM gets a free worker

    27. Re:Stealth Layoff by clong83 · · Score: 1

      I agree face time is useful in building a team, and getting everyone on the same page. I like your approach, and think it would be useful in my office, where I spend 80% with the door closed working on programming, and 20% of my time in meetings and such.

      Might not work best for me, since my office is often quieter than my house. I have a 1-year-old. But I think it would work for most others, and the mere effect of emptying out the building would also help a lot.

      The phone tag thing is BS. I often miss phone calls while sitting in my office. I simply don't answer if I am involved with something important and requiring focus. I may not answer the door either. And I go to meetings, the occasional lunch, bathroom break, etc, and sometimes I am just plain unavailable. The solution is low-tech. If it is very high-priority and you really need to speak with me, I have an old pager with me nearly 100% of the time. You can page me and I'll respond as soon as it is feasible.

      I was inside the offices for a major tech firm in San Jose recently, and I was wondering how in the hell they got any work done at all. There were no offices whatsoever, and I was told that they were very committed to the open floor plan idea, and it didn't matter of you were a manager or a lowly grunt, you had a desk out in the open with everybody else. Not a company I'd want to work for...

    28. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Except with Reddit it was plainly obvious that it wasn't the employees' choice. No one in their right mind is going to pack up their life and trade in their current arrangements to go live in a $5,000/month closet in SF. Not anyone with a family or any kind of balanced lifestyle, anyway. So you can't attract the best or the brightest, instead you get people who are stuck in SF after being laid off from some other company and are desperate for work. No offense to people working at Reddit.

    29. Re:Stealth Layoff by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      This ability to defer reading the message is actually very useful in 95% of cases, being disturbed by someone who wants to ask you a non urgent question is extremely annoying and derails your concentration... Being able to ignore these distractions until you have time to respond to them is extremely useful.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    30. Re:Stealth Layoff by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      A well configured IM client won't pop up and bug you either, it will behave like email - sit in the background receiving messages until you go and read them.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    31. Re:Stealth Layoff by alexgieg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is exactly how Reddit did it.

      And Intel. The husband of a friend of mine (and his family with him) were forcibly moved several States over so as to keep his job when they closed several offices all around the US, causing them to sell their former home for a fraction of it's value and purchase a new one, smaller, and for an inflated price due to the huge influx of people there stressing the local house market.

      The alternative offered? To "quit" his job and lose severance and other benefits.

      Why he (and them) complied? Because he's near retirement age and doing anything else would be end-of-life economic suicide.

      As for all the former employees who "quit", that certainly looked amazing on the responsible executives' resume. Not to mention the bonuses due to all the cost savings etc.

      Shareholder capitalism is an illness.

      --
      Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
    32. Re:Stealth Layoff by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Maybe they just figured out how to get rid of a bunch of employees without having to pay severances or unemployment.

      I'm seeing a fine big bonus here.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    33. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All I can hope for is that the displaced employees find remote work with a company that actually "gets" it. I swear, the higher up the corporate ladder people get, the tighter the neckties must be that close off the blood supply to the brain.

      Fucking idiots.

    34. Re:Stealth Layoff by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      This is why I love Avaya phone systems. There's a button you can define called Send Calls. Tap that and all incoming calls get dumped straight to your voice mail box.

    35. Re: Stealth Layoff by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      You are right on the money with that post. I've dealt with male supervisors and female supervisors. The latter turned out to be in not so simple word as you said, raging types.

    36. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is EXACTLY what happened to me last year. I worked for IBM for 10 years in the Toronto Software Lab, then moved 2 hours west of there where my wife had family and switched to 100% remote. Over the next 8 years I had 2 kids and built a very respectable life. This news is only new to Marketing inside of IBM - this started almost 2 years ago in the Analytics and Cloud divisions. They wanted me to move back to Toronto where my cost of living would have tripled, not to mention uprooting my family. And to boot there was, of course, no guarantee that I wouldn't get RA'ed (IBM speak for layed off) a year later. I told them I wouldn't move so they told me I would be let go in February 2017 with no severance. What an awesome way to treat a high performing 18 year veteran who bled Blue. I'm not the type to sit around waiting so I went job hunting and found a very good job in a smaller city near my home with an excellent company. So very happy I left as IBM is akin to the Titanic about halfway across the Atlantic on its maiden voyage - only a matter of time before it hits that iceberg.

    37. Re:Stealth Layoff by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      If their marketing department (the affected employees) has been outsourced to India then IBM has bigger problems than paying a few severance packages.

    38. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I prefer email...is asynchronous, it doesn't pop up and bug me...and it provides a better CYA paper trail of a conversation, IMHO.

      O! there is more of us?
      I recently discovered that some groups will pester you with urgent stuff on IM but not send you an email.
      because it leaves trail ...

    39. Re:Stealth Layoff by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's seems backwards to me. People who are near retirement would probably be better off holding on to their home and retiring earlier than planned rather than taking what is potentially the loss of one or more years' income in a single hit.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    40. Re:Stealth Layoff by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      The open floor plan isn't too awful; you just need a good set of (over-the-ear, noise-cancelling) headphones and a smartphone full of good tunes (or Spotify and a generous data plan).

      An infant is gonna be hard to work near, I agree... but that clears up in a year or two; that, or you can put a shed in the backyard (living arrangement/space permitting) and turn it into a separate office space.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    41. Re:Stealth Layoff by alexgieg · · Score: 1

      People who are near retirement would probably be better off holding on to their home and retiring earlier than planned rather than taking what is potentially the loss of one or more years' income in a single hit.

      By close I mean about 10 years from. They did the math and concluded him finding another, local, lower paying, 50+years-old-accepting, IT job, so as to keep their former house, would result in a higher financial loss on the long run. They'd end up retiring in a much worse condition right when health-related bills increase exponentially.

      And that, mind, under Obamacare reasoning. It's shaping to become even more prescient under the proposed Trumpcare if that goes all the way into being approved.

      --
      Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
    42. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just another example that "a house is an investment" is a delusion.

    43. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why again are the people that make such decisions so much money?

      Sexist!

      (AmiMoJo is on holiday)

    44. Re:Stealth Layoff by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      When people are forced to put their desires in text form, they will subconsciously organize it coherently and completely before sending it off to you.

      Some will. Most won't.

      If they did, ESR wouldn't have had to write this: http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/s...

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    45. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does it really work like that? I would assume that anyone having it in the contract or hired while they advertised work from home as a benefit they would have to fire, including severance and unemployment.
      I mean otherwise every employer would just say "oh, and tomorrow you have to work from North Korea. And after that from Saudi Arabi. And then Iran." and thus avoid ever paying any of these.

    46. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      +1. HR will bend as soon as they realize you know the law. Works well with land lords too.

    47. Re:Stealth Layoff by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Why he (and them) complied? Because he's near retirement age and doing anything else would be end-of-life economic suicide.

      He should start stealing lots of office supplies.

    48. Re:Stealth Layoff by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      The open floor plan isn't too awful; you just need a good set of (over-the-ear, noise-cancelling) headphones and a smartphone full of good tunes (or Spotify and a generous data plan).

      This doesn't work. First, it doesn't eliminate visual distractions, meaning all the people walking by constantly. Secondly, it encourages people to walk up behind you and tap you on the shoulder, which is extremely jarring.

    49. Re: Stealth Layoff by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      There's always some truth to stereotypes, unfortunately.

      My ex-wife used to complain a lot about her female coworkers. As a legal secretary at the time, she had some male coworkers she didn't like either (namely, the stuck-up attorneys), but she didn't have problems actually getting along with them, and had no trouble maintaining a professional relationship with them. It was the other female secretaries who were a real problem, and acted insanely at times. Now mind you, it wasn't *all* women; she had plenty of female coworkers she got along with great, it was just certain women (and I do believe they were a clear minority, but not an insignificant one) that really ruined it for everyone, and gave all women a bad name.

    50. Re: Stealth Layoff by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      The problem is with the kinds of dysfunctional personalities that inevitably claw their way to the C-suites -- male or female. They're all narcissistic. Some are borderline psychopathic.

      Some?

      The other problem I think may exist with women in leadership positions is that they feel, subconsciously perhaps, that they have to be even more cut-throat than their male peers to succeed, so women in those positions end up being absolutely horrible people, moreso than the average male in such a position.

    51. Re:Stealth Layoff by Frobnicator · · Score: 2

      The alternative offered? To "quit" his job and lose severance and other benefits. Why he (and them) complied? Because he's near retirement age and doing anything else would be end-of-life economic suicide.

      That's an involuntary termination, not quitting. When companies try it generally it is a legal quagmire. If it is even slightly questionable companies will generally offer a huge settlement package rather than risk a drawn-out lawsuit fighting in the courts; and since they're leaving the state the drawn-out lawsuit would be in a state they no longer are local to, further increasing cost.

      I'm curious, did you talk with a lawyer before accepting the deal?

      --
      //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
    52. Re:Stealth Layoff by MooseTick · · Score: 1

      Wow. You're the kind of employee every company wants!

      You would "would make them fire" you and then when you don't get "a severance package" that you deem fair, you "would get a lawyer and start a class action."

      I didn't know "bad faith" was something you could sue for damages over. You sound as if a company ever makes a business decision you don't like, they may very well be in legal jeopardy.

    53. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think I'm one of the few who prefers going to an office. I think it would be far too easy to goof off even more at home. Does that mean I wouldn't end up doing the work? No, I would, but it would take even longer.

      But by that, I literally mean an office, not an office building. Moving to the new building, we won't have our own offices anymore (those of us that still do). So I'll put up with it for a while, and probably eventually either greatly reduce hours or find a different job where people still have their own offices, or quit.

    54. Re:Stealth Layoff by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      People don't have to sell their home for a "fraction of it's[sic] value" when they move. That is just horseshit. What it means is that their whole rant that you listened to was a load of crap, they were just ranting, they were not providing you with a data source about an actual experience.

      Guess what? If they had a fantasy that their house was worth more than it is, and they had to sell it at the market rate, that means they sold it for it was worth.

      If they had an awful loan with penalties for early payoff, and they weren't smart enough to talk to an accountant about the procedure to pay it off without the penalty, then they may have indeed lost money on the total transactions, but they still would have sold the house for the market rate.

      The most likely thing is that they simply thought that they could have got a slightly higher price by leaving it on the market for a few months, and they had to take something close to the market rate to sell to a normal buyer on a normal time frame, and then when they were grousing to you they were using a communication style "not meant to be taken literally."

      It isn't like they were rushed out of town by their employer and had to sell their house at the pawn shop on the way to the airport. They still would have sold it on the normal market, and getting a quick sale doesn't require selling at "a fraction" of the price in the sense that "a fraction of the price" is meant. You would at worst be selling at the low end of the range that is the actual price, not a fraction.

      I'm thinking that, in addition to being exceptionally credulous of absurd stories, you might also not know what fraction means in the context of "fractional cost."

    55. Re:Stealth Layoff by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      It does solve it if what you IM is the actual thing you have to say.

      Same as voicemail. Did you leave the information you wanted to convey in the message, or did you just say, "hey, call me back." One communicates information, one omits it in favor of the detached metadata.

      Just replace the broken unit attached to the keyboard and data will flow really well asynchronously through an IM.

    56. Re:Stealth Layoff by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Maybe they just figured out how to get rid of a bunch of employees without having to pay severances or unemployment.

      No, these are high paid jobs and unemployment doesn't pay a lot. If a person actually wants the unemployment, they just decline to be relocated and the company has to lay them off or fire them without cause, and they get their unemployment.

      These jobs aren't even in the same State, so there is not going to be a loophole for the company. And, they are an established company with a reputation as a great employer, lots of people want to work for them, and they pay well. They're not making these decisions worrying about trying to screw people over on rounding errors, they try instead to attract and retain a certain type of employee. Maybe this helps them with that, maybe not, but it obviously isn't a gimmick.

    57. Re:Stealth Layoff by alexgieg · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When you're given about 5 months to move, *while* the economy is down, and cannot afford to wait more until it goes back up because you need the money right now to pay a premium for the new one in a place where you have to wait several months to get a contractor due to the huge influx of people (and pay more to those contractors than you would under normal conditions), things get way outside optimal. You're basically stepping from the 4th-sigma of the left tail of the Gaussian distribution directly to the 4th-sigma of the right tail. So, yeah, you lose money, the hope being you lose less than you would otherwise.

      --
      Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
    58. Re:Stealth Layoff by harperska · · Score: 1

      Houses are not a commodity. You can't price a house just based on simple supply and demand economic models. Every single house on the market is unique with its quirks and charms, and so it often takes months to find a buyer who is a good fit for the house. Especially if you have to list the house at an inopportune time like mid winter. If you don't have time to wait for the right buyer because you have to move out of state on a short time table, you will very likely have to reduce the asking price of the house from what it might otherwise be to entice a buyer for whom the house may be more of a compromise. This is what was meant by "fraction of its value". Their house sold for a fraction of what it could have if they could afford to wait.

    59. Re:Stealth Layoff by antdude · · Score: 1

      Especially for those with disabilities like me who don't commute and have impediments. :( I loved my 1.5 years Cisco contract job since I worked from home 100% and never had to show my face, voice, etc.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    60. Re:Stealth Layoff by lucm · · Score: 1

      Just another example that "a house is an investment" is a delusion.

      There's a silver lining though. Those people can downgrade their internet connection since they will no longer be able to watch Netflix during business hours.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    61. Re:Stealth Layoff by Kjella · · Score: 2

      I didn't know "bad faith" was something you could sue for damages over. You sound as if a company ever makes a business decision you don't like, they may very well be in legal jeopardy.

      I can't speak for US law, but at least here in Norway if the work content or location fundamentally changes it will be seen by the law as a termination and that you're being offered a new position, even if the title and salary is the same. Otherwise it would be too easy to force people to resign by bouncing them around the country like the ball in a pin ball machine and reassigning them to scrub the toilets.

      So if you refuse the offer it wouldn't be you quitting, you would be laid off with all the rights that gives you like if you have the right to severance pay. I got a similar offer when we were bought out by another company, the employment contract changed sufficiently that I could refuse to go and then they'd have to lay me off by the terms of the old contract instead. It only applies to major changes though, not minor changes in work or relocating to a new office in the same city.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    62. Re: Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One time? Dude, go back to school.

      The saying is "bleeds for a week...".

    63. Re:Stealth Layoff by dbIII · · Score: 2

      because only those that are good at what they do (and hence have other prospects) will leave

      That is not seen as a problem at the top of the tree where only managers are seen as having true value. A good manager can take anyone out of the gutter and turn them into a subject matter expert without the manager knowing anything about the subject - so the oft believed legend goes.
      So IMHO when you see such demented practices it's a bit of a symptom of such a situation.

    64. Re:Stealth Layoff by gweihir · · Score: 1

      You are certainly right about that.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    65. Re:Stealth Layoff by gweihir · · Score: 1

      So, "CEO" is now a gender? Fascinating. They are now up to, what, 60 genders?

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    66. Re: Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If he couldn't get a job making 75% of what he was making, then Intel was right to cut the fat.

      You're either useful or you're a leech. If this was the only job he could get, he's a leech.

    67. Re:Stealth Layoff by golden_hands · · Score: 1

      Unless you work in an investment bank, where they choose to turn prevent it- most IM software allows you to save the IM conversation. It is not a way to effectively turn off all audit trails.

    68. Re: Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've worked with IBM as a Customer for 15 years now. When they pull this on your department IBM is looking to consolidate you and have you train your Indian replacements. Why move across the country when you for sure won't have a job there in five years?

    69. Re:Stealth Layoff by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 4, Informative

      Depends how you swing it. I've moved a few times in my career and each time I've retained my property in my previous location as a rental property. Even turning over management of those properties to property management companies still nets me a small net profit every month, and meanwhile someone else is paying my mortgages and I am building equity.

      Yes, I have occasional large expenses like the furnace going out in one of my properties last week... but because I put all of my net profit into a single account and retain for just these kinds of expenses I still know I'm making money on the entire portfolio.

      No, it's not enough that I can quit my job... but if I were to liquidate all of my properties tomorrow I'd have enough cash to live on for a couple of years and still maintain my current standard of living.

      A house can be an investment if you're creative.

    70. Re:Stealth Layoff by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 1

      This is however really the most demented way to do it, because only those that are good at what they do (and hence have other prospects) will leave. The ones staying will include all that have no prospects. Do this several times and you may as well close down the department and re-start from scratch.

      >

      You actually nailed it on the head. Once the department is full of the mid-tier and low-tier employees and all the good ones have departed, IBM (or other large company) can turn around to lobby the government for more H1-B's because they "... can't hire good people in the USA". Then at some point they outsource the entire department to India. Rinse and repeat with the next department they want to offshore.

    71. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not OP or even American, but over here it's mandatory to specify the location of your office in one's contract for this exact reason. That way, a company moving to a different region is the one who commits breach of contract and not the employee for not willing to move.

    72. Re: Stealth Layoff by alexgieg · · Score: 1

      If he couldn't get a job making 75% of what he was making

      Yeah, because being specialized in microchips is an easily transferable skill. I bet, by that logic, that most rocket scientists are leeches as soon as their labs move.

      --
      Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
    73. Re:Stealth Layoff by olau · · Score: 2

      Here in Denmark, Intel closed a division they bought some years ago because clearly the employees wouldn't mind moving to another country (they were to be relocated to somewhere in Germany I believe) and despite having almost completed a new lab facility.

      Only to find out that they didn't have anyone else who could develop the products they had already sold. So they ended up cancelling the closure AFTER having announced it to the public.

      Here's the announcement of closure:

      http://cphpost.dk/news/busines...

      These kind of decisions aren't rational. They happen because someone takes a look at a spreadsheet and thinks to him/herself - gosh, that looks complicated! Let's cross out half of the lines, then it's much simpler! It's a gross failure of an organization when stupid decisions from the top aren't blocked - well in this case it was, but a little late. They proved they weren't a reliable employer and did lose a bunch of people.

    74. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're willing to share a bedroom with 10 of your fellow Indian developers, you are welcome to come and work in San Francisco or New York on your existing salary.

    75. Re:Stealth Layoff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "phone tag"?

      Phone tag means people leave each other messages but never have a conversation. This is resolved in one of three ways:
        - use an actual phone during actual working hours. No tag occurs. The other person is at their desk, at home, and answers the phone.
        - write an email. The email contains actual content, while the phone message does not. It's not equivalent to phone tag just because no interruption occurred.
        - time-boxed meetings. These, plus "no-meetings days," are a partial solution to the problem of balancing interruptions against collaboration.

      I don't think IM, or phone, should be an option. Communication should be limited to meetings scheduled on a calendar with an agenda doc, or emails.

    76. Re:Stealth Layoff by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      I'm actually a great employee, but I have been around long enough to know my rights and know when some CEO is pulling BS moves to line her pockets via big bonuses for saving the company money at my expense. I even understand when companies have to downsize due to market forces/bad economic conditions etc., but I expect them to come out and acknowledge that is what they are doing and offer their employees all the benefits that they are entitled to.

      For far too long we have treated C-level managers like employees, when in reality they are the company, and if I had my way we would have a law that it is assumed that the board and CEOs on down the C-level are assumed to be aware and are inseparably criminally liable for any corporate action that is illegal (not the lone guy acting against stated corporate policy). This back door layoff scheme is fraudulent on its face (depriving laid off workers of their benefits for the enrichment of the company) and they should all be perp walked out of IBM and charged with a few thousand counts of fraud.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    77. Re:Stealth Layoff by Aighearach · · Score: 0

      That's just nonsense that is part of a real estate agent's spiel.

      Look at the numbers, the seasonal variation is real but small, and the time on the market doesn't vary that much.

      And no, look up "fractional cost" on the interwebs if you want to know what it actually means when people say "a fraction of..." I'll give you a hint, it doesn't mean "awww, shucks, I had to sell at the 43rd percentile price when I thought I should get the 85th percentile price because I'm awesome!"

      The reality is that people stories are always bullshit, not that it is hard to sell a house, or that houses don't have prices, or complete hogwash like "houses are unique snowflakes and not commodities."

    78. Re:Stealth Layoff by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      The economy isn't even down. Home sales aren't stagnant. If your home doesn't sell in 5 months, you probably live in Flint, MI.

    79. Re:Stealth Layoff by alexgieg · · Score: 1

      This happened years ago.

      --
      Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
    80. Re:Stealth Layoff by Rastl · · Score: 1

      The alternative offered? To "quit" his job and lose severance and other benefits. Why he (and them) complied? Because he's near retirement age and doing anything else would be end-of-life economic suicide.

      That's an involuntary termination, not quitting. When companies try it generally it is a legal quagmire. If it is even slightly questionable companies will generally offer a huge settlement package rather than risk a drawn-out lawsuit fighting in the courts; and since they're leaving the state the drawn-out lawsuit would be in a state they no longer are local to, further increasing cost. I'm curious, did you talk with a lawyer before accepting the deal?

      My company has something similar happening right now. Here's where it gets tricksy. At least for employees in CA if they're offered a relocation package as part of the deal and they decline they are considered to have left the company voluntarily. In a way. It does have an impact on their unemployment benefits. So talking to a lawyer is a very good idea when presented with this situation.

    81. Re:Stealth Layoff by Bill+Privatus · · Score: 1

      Please. You can't file a class-action lawsuit. Only the federal government can do this. You can file a complaint, and hope the federal government decides it's actionable. IBM has been doing things like this for years, and they likely have armor-plated their butts.

      --
      Redundancy is good; triple redundancy is twice as good! - Me.
    82. Re:Stealth Layoff by harperska · · Score: 1

      I am not sure what you are getting at with your insistence on the meaning of fractional cost. When I search that term on Google, Bing, or DDG, all I get are hits on how much fractional lasers cost, and whether it is worth going in halvsies on a business jet. But when most ordinary normal people say "a fraction of..." when referring to the price of something, they simply mean a lower amount than expected.

      Also, yes there are aggregate patterns to the price of homes in general, but if you think that market forces are the only force at play in the price of an individual house, I have difficulty believing you have ever bought or sold a home before. For example, a DIYer may be more willing to buy a fixer-upper house at a higher price than someone else, as the other person would want to negotiate lower in order to factor in the price of a contractor to fix the problem. But as DIYers are rare among home buyers, it may take longer for a DIYer who likes the home otherwise to come along.

      Then again, you may just be a troll, so I shouldn't have even bothered replying.

    83. Re:Stealth Layoff by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Some guy looks up "fractional cost" on the internet but can't find any of the explanations because there are so many... fractional lasers in the world. Keep reading the troll? Nope. Gonna stop there.

  2. They're going to lose a lot of good people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess they don't care. Great news for their competitors, however.

    1. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're also going to lose the some of the cokeheads they brought on when they bought ISS.

    2. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, Marissa Meyer did it - and, in the end, she got tens of millions of dollars.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    3. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What competitors? IBM is pretty much in a class of its own. They destroyed their competitors long, long ago.

    4. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, Marissa Meyer did it - and, in the end, she got tens of millions of dollars.

      ...and Yahoo! Went! Down! The! Shitter! Faster! ;)

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    5. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Bad to the company, very good for the CEO. Of course, a move like that requires the absence of all personal honor and integrity, but the way to get to such a C-level position already makes sure to weed out anybody that does not qualify in this sense.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    6. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I've worked for IBM Help Desk only once for a few years. But I have worked in many former IBM shops with IBM-branded hardware and legacy software still lingering around.

    7. Re: They're going to lose a lot of good people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      True. I was taking a piss at Dolby Labs in SF. The CEO walk in the bathroom. Both urinals are occupied. He actually said, 'I should piss on you'.

      Swear to god. I was a lowly software developer. That should be pissed on for being an inconvenience. We all know the higher you get, the more bodies you had to have stepped on. Its the only way it works. Wake up. Ceos are not good people.

    8. Re: They're going to lose a lot of good people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TellMeMore 4head

    9. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by Calydor · · Score: 2

      IBM bought the International Space Station?!

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    10. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by repka · · Score: 1

      It'd be nice to have a lively company too, but 20 bucks are 20 bucks.

    11. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Well, the IBM application outsourcing teams I see at work on our customer's sites are the most incompetent, arrogant and expensive specimen of developer (as a group) I have ever encountered. Let's see how long they can keep this up....

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    12. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What competitors? IBM is pretty much in a class of its own. They destroyed their competitors long, long ago.

      Then they destroyed themselves.

      The only businesses I know of locally that use anything from IBM anymore are the dinosaur companies. The ones that bought mainframes back when a computer required its own climate-control system. The ones old enough and big enough to piss away money on Dogbert Consultants and buy into expensive shiny buzzword "solutions" that don't work.

      Which is pretty much what IBM is these days.

    13. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by lgw · · Score: 2

      Well, Marissa Meyer did it - and, in the end, she got tens of millions of dollars.

      ...and Yahoo! Went! Down! The! Shitter! Faster! ;)

      Yahoo's stock price ~doubled under her tenure. She may have destroyed any engineering left there, but the business did well.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    14. Re: They're going to lose a lot of good people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just need to shoot some CEO's and thin the herds a little. Not a bad thought.

    15. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Yahoo's stock price slightly more than doubled.

      Tech stocks in general doubled under her tenure. She did marginally above average in the eyes of investors while alienating users gutting future growth opportunities.

      The stock price paints a different picture to the health of the business.

    16. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What competitors? IBM is pretty much in a class of its own. They destroyed their competitors long, long ago.

      That is an unusual statement, you make it sound like IBM bought out TCS and don't want anyone to know all the while they are answering the phone being all like " Thank you for calling the IBM my name is ..... Bob... how is it that I may be doing the needful for you today?"

    17. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      It rose because of the AlleyBlabla stock it owned since before her reign. Epic fail at virtue signalling.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    18. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yahoo's stock price ~doubled under her tenure. She may have destroyed any engineering left there, but the business did well.

      You really need to stop desperately repeating this lie by omission in every thread. The stock price went up because of Yang's investment in Alibaba, nothing at all to do with Mayer.

    19. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol that wasn't here, that was the Alibaba stocks they held

    20. Re: They're going to lose a lot of good people. by bodog · · Score: 1

      what stopped you from peeing on his shoes? goes around comes around..

    21. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by lgw · · Score: 1

      Have you never worked for a bad CEO? No matter how well the industry, or economy in general is doing, the right person can tank any company. She was at least a mediocre CEO - likely better than that as Yahoo was already swirling the bowl when she got there.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    22. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      What has that got to do with my comment, or yours which I replied to. I'm just pointing out that the stock price is not an indication of the health of a company, and when taken in isolation without exploring the rest of the industry it can't be taken as an indication of how good a business did.

    23. Re: They're going to lose a lot of good people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I ran into Intel's CEO Craig Barrett once in the company bathroom. I was washing my hands, and all the sinks were in use. I heard someone grunt angrily (because the sinks were full), and turned around to see Craig storming out the door without washing his hands.

    24. Re:They're going to lose a lot of good people. by lgw · · Score: 1

      My point was: you can't call here a bad CEO, because bad CEOs destroy companies, often quite quickly.

      Stock price is the best guess of people good at financial analysis of the future financial prospects of a company. The wisdom of that crowd is generally better than you'd think. Of course, where they're wrong, there's lots of money to be made.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  3. The first to quit are the good ones by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Every reorganization, every revamp, every change means that some people will not like it. And those that don't like it have two options: Grin and bear it, or hand in a resignation note.

    Question for 100 points: Will good people, who are sought and have zero problem finding a new job, be in the first or in the latter group? And where will people who know that they have no chance of ever being hired again because they're lazy, dumb or both be?

    And now ponder what group you'll retain with your constant, idiot changes!

    For fuck's sake, when you take over a company, you needn't piss all over it to mark it as yours! It ain't a tree and you're not a dumb dog.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re: The first to quit are the good ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet you piss all over Slashdot with your stupid posts. Are you butthurt that you won't be able to get away with five hour work days from home any longer?

    2. Re:The first to quit are the good ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's pretty clear that IBM, with 19 straight quarters of declining sales, has already lost many of its "good ones."

      Perhaps this is an effort to induce some of the "bad ones" who have clung to the company like ticks to leave and go fuck up someone else's company?

    3. Re:The first to quit are the good ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The smart ones will bail first, then the grunts will wonder why new people get hired over them to fill the gaps. A couple years of spinning in circles and bonking heads and somehow products & services still squeeze out, then when things settle a new round of restructuring will happen and the veteran survivors from the last round will bail and the circle of life at a large consulting kindergarten will be complete...

    4. Re: The first to quit are the good ones by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      If I want a 4 hour work day, I can have that at work as well, it's not like physical presence changes anything.

      People who want to slack will slack. You'll notice it in the workload they manage to do, not whether they keep one of the chairs in your office from flying away.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:The first to quit are the good ones by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      But the bad ones will not do that for exactly that reason: Who in their sane mind hires someone like that? They will cling to you until you purge them.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re: The first to quit are the good ones by war4peace · · Score: 1

      If someone's "getting away" with 5 hours a week of work, that's because of incompetent management and/or poorly written/implemented procedures. It certainly has nothing to do with that specific employee.

      One can cheat their way into not working only because they're allowed to. A simple work audit would point them out immediately. Also, you can do fuck-all from the office just as well, if management remains equally incompetent.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    7. Re: The first to quit are the good ones by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

      Have the employees who work from home write out a weekly summary of all they've done, and a rough estimate of hours for each task. A freeform bullet point list is enough. I worked in a place that made all employees (even the non-remote ones, as well as management) fill such out. I jumped at any opportunities to do more work simply so that I'd have a lot to put in the report. A side benefit is, if your team is understaffed, the reports make it easier to illustrate the problem up the chain.

    8. Re:The first to quit are the good ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Corporate America is, whether deliberately or not, cultivating a culture where loyalty is unheard of, no employee gives a damn about the success of the company, and no employee thinks twice about leaving after only a year.

      And that's exactly what Corporate America deserves: employees who simply don't care about anything but themselves. Ironically, "I'm loving it."

    9. Re: The first to quit are the good ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. Never met a WFH developer who wasn't a fraud.

    10. Re: The first to quit are the good ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the end you are either doing the work you are assigned or your aren't. Just assign the work you want done and tell them how long you want it done in and leave it alone. They either finish and people are happy or they get fired. All done.

    11. Re: The first to quit are the good ones by war4peace · · Score: 1

      That works in theory.
      In practice, incompetent management accrued overstaffed teams and don't have enough work to be passed around. In order to protect themselves, managers don't implement such system and instead rely on BS to pretend they are understaffed (or at worst "at the level").
      Those rough estimates get blown out of proportion, I've seen people put in dozens of hours for something really simple, which would take a non-expert 6 hours at most. their incompetent management would take those estimates and further inflate them, accounting for "documentation", "testing", "UAT" and other such activities, which were already included in the original estimate (which, as said before, were inflated anyway).

      There's a joke about communist era from my country:

      Romanian government imports a sow from the USSR government which was supposed to give birth to 30 piglets. They put it into a cooperative farm and after a while, due to bad food and improper care, it only gives birth to one piglet.
      Its caretaker reports 5 piglets to the supervisor.
      The supervisor reports 10 piglets to the farm director.
      The farm director reports 20 piglets to the county prefect.
      The county prefect reports 25 to the Minister.
      The Minister reports 30 to the Prime Minister.
      The Prime Minister adds 1 and reports 31 to the dictator, to show him that we did better than the Soviets.
      The Dictator, as a country-loving tyrant, decrees that 30 of them should go to the population as food and one should be exported.

      Sadly, this attitude is visible at many large corporations, which act as dictatorships in all ways but name.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    12. Re: The first to quit are the good ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If someone's "getting away" with 5 hours a week of work, that's because of incompetent management and/or poorly written/implemented procedures. It certainly has nothing to do with that specific employee.

      He was talking about management.

    13. Re: The first to quit are the good ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice unintentional tautology. If you met a WFH developer and you were int their house... That's not a WFH developer.

    14. Re:The first to quit are the good ones by Greyfox · · Score: 1

      Well that could also be intentional -- get rid of any shred of useful talent in a division and then spin the rest of that division off as "underperforming." Your stock options soar and it doesn't affect your bottom line when that new company quietly goes under.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    15. Re:The first to quit are the good ones by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      For fuck's sake, when you take over a company, you needn't piss all over it to mark it as yours! It ain't a tree and you're not a dumb dog.

      Actually you do. The whole point of combining two companies is that you eliminate differences that make them incompatible. This can often include the unification of HR systems (gutting the benefits of employees who got taken over), reducing the duplicate offices and relocating workers.

      If you wanted to just invest in a company you buy shares, don't take it over.

    16. Re: The first to quit are the good ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Filling out this form: 4 hours"

    17. Re:The first to quit are the good ones by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      The only problem with this logic is that, as seen with many comments here, there's a lot of remote workers who've taken advantage of that to move to places where there's no other comparable jobs, and it really seems these days like remote work is drying up.

      So yeah, if some company right in the middle of Silicon Valley does something dumb to piss off its high-performing employees, they'll just apply for jobs at companies across the street and be gone in a week or two. But remote workers aren't quite like that.

    18. Re:The first to quit are the good ones by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Every reorganization, every revamp, every change means that some people will not like it. And those that don't like it have two options: Grin and bear it, or hand in a resignation note.

      Question for 100 points: Will good people, who are sought and have zero problem finding a new job, be in the first or in the latter group?

      They'll be in both. And will your other group ("people who know that they have no chance of ever being hired again because they're lazy, dumb or both").

    19. Re:The first to quit are the good ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please do not forget why that loyalty no longer exists.

      Slaves and Cattle *hate* their owners.

    20. Re: The first to quit are the good ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He could be stalking them you know!

    21. Re: The first to quit are the good ones by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 1

      This doesn't work.

      Generally, the good employees who actually deliver are usually the first to feel that this level of micromanagement is unacceptable, and they will leave for a company that doesn't do it. And the bad employees start actively making shit up or massively inflating their numbers in order to make it look like they're busier than they really are.

      And then there are the good smartasses who figure out that they can write a two-point bullet list every week that says "1. Doing what you hired me to do: 39 Hours. 2. Filling out this report: 1 Hour." This ALSO encourages people to work EXACTLY 40 hours and no more. Believe me, I've seen it many times.

      The right way to manage a remote team is to have easily defined metrics that are averaged over a month or more... not a week. Coders for example will have some dynamite days or weeks, and other times spent days just spinning on one problem. However, when averaged over a decent period of time they show actual value to the company. And the onus is upon the manager to... you know... manage. Instead of just filling out an Excel spreadsheet once a week for your upper management you can take the time to look at the metrics to identify where someone might be having a problem and actually then approach them to see if they need assistance. This method of management is sorely lacking in much of Corporate America because quite frankly it requires work on the part of the mid-manager... said mid-manager probably just wants to have something once a week that can be copy-pasted into an Excel spreadsheet.

      I'll say that I manage a remote team and my team consistently exceeds its target quarter over quarter. My team spans most of the MidWest. If I asked for these kinds of reports then I know of at least two of my team members who would either go to another group or quit the company entirely in a heartbeat... and these two just happen to be two of my highest producers.

      If you have to micromanage like you have shown here, then you're a shit manager who doesn't know how to hire properly or manage a team and you should be fired.

    22. Re: The first to quit are the good ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or it has something to do with accomplishing more in those five hours than what someone else does in eight. If one meets one's objectives, and one is not under pressure to make cuts, then why are you going to ding your performing people? They'll only get pissed off any find someone who will recognize that fulfilling objectives is more important than pleasing you by looking busy.

    23. Re: The first to quit are the good ones by war4peace · · Score: 1

      5 hours A WEEK, not per day, you reading-impaired you :)

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    24. Re: The first to quit are the good ones by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

      If you have to micromanage like you have shown here, then you're a shit manager who doesn't know how to hire properly or manage a team and you should be fired.
      I'm not a manager, just an employee who had to fill out such a form, except form being a simple list of "task" and "hours". If you can't succinctly put the things you've done over the past week in that format, I'd argue you're the terrible employee trying to deflect. I'm not talking about minutia here, just "Project for customer x: 5 hours. Troubleshooting issue y: 3 hours. On-site consultation with customer t: 6 hours. Training on topics a, b, c: 10 hours. Research on topic d: 2 hours".

      Without that, how can you charge back your time to the customers, versus your employer? How much is coming out of the internal training budget? Pull numbers out randomly, how does your company function?

    25. Re: The first to quit are the good ones by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 1

      Without that, how can you charge back your time to the customers, versus your employer? How much is coming out of the internal training budget? Pull numbers out randomly, how does your company function?

      As I said; measurable deliverables. And those would be deliverables that are averaged over a reasonable period of time. Completion of project milestones or at least good write-ups and reasons as to why those milestones and deadlines are missed. That's less draconian than what you're proposing and works great in companies I've worked at.

      If it's any consolation, some of my peers subscribe to the model you proposed... some of their people have ended up on my team and I get consistently good reviews from my people about my management style.

      I tend to subscribe to the idea that I should trust my people to do their jobs to the best of their abilities, and to assist them if it's beyond their capabilities or they have good reasons not to perform. I do have the luxury of working for a large enough company with deep enough coffers that we can usually carry some dead wood in a team for quite a while with minimal hit to the bottom line... and that gives me the latitude to average their performance over a 6 month or even a 1 year period. But privately I know pretty quickly who the dead wood is and I will usually find ways to move them off to someone else's team or get them out before they affect the rest of the team.

      Being a manager is hard work. What you proposed is management by Excel sheet which is unfortunately rife in Corporate America thanks to MBA's who think they know what'll make a business better but actually only have an academic understanding of what works, not real-world experience.

      And I'll admit; when I was a new and freshly minted manager I did do that because that's what my manager taught me. I learned pretty quickly how badly that works from experience and tried a different tack. Yes, my management often asks me for details like you're asking for... but by knowing my team, my deliverables and my targets allows me to speak intelligently to what my team is doing and justify the salaries of everyone on that team consistently year over year. I also have the highest average tenure of a team member of any of my peers.

  4. Prepare for reduced productivity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's amazing what I can do in eight hours at home versus the constant interruptions in the office.

    1. Re:Prepare for reduced productivity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Youtube Xbox porn eat nap porn Youtube TV?

    2. Re:Prepare for reduced productivity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a mix. Constant office distractions suck ass, but some remote employees I've worked with seemed to be unavailable or off doing errands when they were supposed to be working. Sometimes this became evident to bosses, but they didn't seem to care as much since they didn't have to see them in person everyday, the workers they could see in person were held up to higher standards. If employers can do better with holding employees to the same standards, whether remote or in person, it's fine. If companies got over saving a few thousand by having open offices where there is constantly movement in your peripheral vision, always someone up walking around you, always a loud conversation, even meetings, within earshot, then working in the office won't be as unappealing as it currently is.

    3. Re:Prepare for reduced productivity by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      You need to keep track of the work employees are doing, irrespective of where they're doing it... You assign them work and give them a deadline by which to complete it, and expect them to have either completed it or come up with a valid reason why not.

      I've encountered office workers who did nothing all day, but always looked like they were working (they were browsing slashdot or similar, all day)...

      I agree about the constant office distractions, seeing and hearing people constantly move around is extremely distracting, also them having the ability to disrupt your concentration at any time.
      There are the other factors, commuting is a colossal waste of time and energy, and offices tend to be located in the most inconvenient locations (lots of other offices nearby, but no affordable residential property - long commute and over congested travel routes).

      I used to commute an hour each way on an over crowded train and sat in a large open plan office, i hated it, could never concentrate and always sought to leave at the earliest possible time. It was always either too cold or too hot, there was always noise and random movement, always people interrupting me.

      Now i do a mix of working from home, and working in an office ~5 minutes away where i have my own room. My office is quiet and comfortable, people generally don't interrupt me unless it's urgent.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    4. Re:Prepare for reduced productivity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I personally prefer remote work, most of the time. I think it's nice to be around coworkers a bit and it helps if you're looking for promotions to positions that aren't available as remote, but the constant noise and distractions in the office are a big negative, not to mention commute time like you mentioned. As for performance, yes, both in office employees and remote can waste time, but if the bosses are looking the other way on consistently lower performance of remote workers while keeping pressure on the employees they see in person, that's an issue. I think a good manager holds all employees of the same title to the same standard even if they don't see them in person.

      I think it can be harder to get away with wasting time on the Internet in office if it's an open office and the manager is in the same area (as well as those higher up the chain). Many will not want to be seen as wasting time during their shift, especially if everyone is under a lot of pressure to complete something. Others don't care though and depending on the position and their current workload (or lack thereof), may spend a large chunk of their shift doing non-work stuff.

    5. Re:Prepare for reduced productivity by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Youtube Xbox porn eat nap porn Youtube TV?

      For some people that would be an improvement. One, they aren't breaking anything so that some other poor sod will have to waste time fixing it. Two, they aren't disturbing & distracting everybody.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    6. Re:Prepare for reduced productivity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much. I work from home 100% of the time, unless I'm at a clients office for a few days.
      It's so much better at home. Almost 0 interruptions, I can have lunch whenever I want. As long as work is done on time no one cares if I work 9 to 5 or 11 to 7.
      No one hovering behind you asking you if it's done yet.

  5. Work/home balance by grasshoppa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's notable that some of the largest reversals of remote work in recent memory have been spearheaded by women.

    The irony is delicious.

    --
    Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    1. Re:Work/home balance by Dr+J.+keeps+the+nerd · · Score: 1

      Can you provide some examples and/or statistics?

    2. Re:Work/home balance by grasshoppa · · Score: 3, Informative

      Aside from this story? I'm thinking specifically of Marissa Mayer.

      --
      Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    3. Re:Work/home balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Marissa comes to mind

    4. Re:Work/home balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The workplace is a primary way for them to get sugar daddies- WFH trend is a fucking disaster for them.

    5. Re:Work/home balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shhh! You'll trigger him. Just leave the troll alone.

    6. Re:Work/home balance by BigIrv · · Score: 2

      Meg Whitman

      --

      --Good morning fellas; Hand me that thing; Boy, this work's hard; Guys, break's over.
    7. Re:Work/home balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are so afraid of women?

    8. Re:Work/home balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because, are of men welcoming more other best practices brave policy balance.
      Of course.

    9. Re:Work/home balance by ghoul · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "I sacrificed my family life to get where I am. Why does SHE get to work from home and pick up her kids?" Sounds familiar
      I work in consulting and a lot of my employees work as contractors. I meet with the client managers for feedback regularly and I get maximum complaints about our female employees taking days off or WFH to deal with school, sickness etc. Funny thing its mostly the female Client managers complaining not the males. Maybe the males expect women to be taking time off to deal with kid issues. But its wierd that its always women complaining about other women taking time off to deal with kids. I have even had one say "I dont take time off when my kid is sick . Why does your contractor take a half day to go watch a recital?"

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    10. Re:Work/home balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are so afraid of pronouns?

    11. Re:Work/home balance by Golddess · · Score: 1

      I don't get it. Why is it notable and how is it ironic? Is this some kind of reference to the 1950's image of the stay-at-home mom?

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    12. Re:Work/home balance by fiver-hoo · · Score: 3

      Meg Whitman started enforcing a "everybody must go to an actual office" policy at HP/HPE several years ago.

    13. Re:Work/home balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because, in most civilized parts of the world, it is trivially easy for a woman to get a man convicted of abuse or rape, with nothing but her word.

      If she is married to her victim, she can exit the marriage with most of his wealth and a salary from him too.

    14. Re:Work/home balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Notable, but doesn't seem ironic.

    15. Re:Work/home balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's what stuck in my craw about Marissa. She gets rid of all remote employees, no one can be exempt, not even us working mothers! We all must pitch in for the good of the company and do our part, even us working mothers! Then she installs a fully staffed nursery for her own kid directly adjacent to her office. Oh yes, such a sacrifice you're making, Marissa, you poor working mother, who gets to have her kid at arm's reach all day every day at work.

      God damn selfish, hypocritical cunt! Someone should seize all her assets and redistribute them to every current and former mother working at Yahoo.

    16. Re:Work/home balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This started a year ago and is company wide.

    17. Re:Work/home balance by wyHunter · · Score: 1

      Why is this a surprise? Women who have "made it" seem to hate those of us who are plebs and DON'T have full time staff to run our homes and lives.

    18. Re:Work/home balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      When males complain it might be possible to construe discrimination or bias against women (not that it would, but its how we're now trained to think) so its much safer not to say anything. The women can complain because they don't generally have to worry about be harassed for complaining about another women. It doesn't seem weird at all to me.

    19. Re:Work/home balance by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      This just reinforces my theory that "every group of people is its own worst enemy".

    20. Re:Work/home balance by ghoul · · Score: 1

      Nope not so easy. We had a female Client Manager reduce our team . When project budget got cut she let go of the 3 women in the team and retained the 2 men. One of these women then sued our company when we laid them off. Her claim for discrimination was that the Client liked working with men and had laid off the 3 women in a discriminatory fashion. We settled out of court. Californiaaaah!

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    21. Re:Work/home balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have even had one say "I dont take time off when my kid is sick . Why does your contractor take a half day to go watch a recital?"

      I hope you response was along the lines that your contractor, unlike others, isn't a shitty parent.

    22. Re:Work/home balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what stuck in my craw about Marissa. She gets rid of all remote employees, no one can be exempt, not even us working mothers! We all must pitch in for the good of the company and do our part, even us working mothers! Then she installs a fully staffed nursery for her own kid directly adjacent to her office. Oh yes, such a sacrifice you're making, Marissa, you poor working mother, who gets to have her kid at arm's reach all day every day at work.

      God damn selfish, hypocritical cunt! Someone should seize all her assets and redistribute them to every current and former mother working at Yahoo.

      That's actually kind of comical in a way. When the current Yahoo! corporate campus was being built, I was an employee of Yahoo!. We were specifically told that there would not be day care because it was unsafe. The property is highly toxic, being located between the Sunnyvale city garbage dump and a rocket facility. Of course, I went from that to working in an office building that was in a neighborhood with three superfund sites that got blended into one gigantic one (Middlefield-Ellis-Whisman, formerly several semiconductor factories).

  6. This Worked So Well For Yahoo! by Feneric · · Score: 2

    Didn't Yahoo! do something similar shortly before tanking? It seems pretty short-sighted to make oneself less competitive at attracting technical workers in the U.S. at a time when many are predicting increased competition for U.S. technical workers.

    1. Re:This Worked So Well For Yahoo! by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Didn't Yahoo! do something similar shortly before tanking? It seems pretty short-sighted to make oneself less competitive at attracting technical workers in the U.S. at a time when many are predicting increased competition for U.S. technical workers.

      Nonsense - it worked out very well for Marissa Meyer, who is the one that made that decision at Yahoo.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:This Worked So Well For Yahoo! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didn't Yahoo! do something similar shortly before tanking? It seems pretty short-sighted to make oneself less competitive at attracting technical workers in the U.S. at a time when many are predicting increased competition for U.S. technical workers.

      They aren't necessarily less competitive, it just means they'll have to pay more money.
      And since some workers can't do non-remote, they'll probably have some money in the budget for personnel.

      If your remote work option gets curtailed, ask for a raise.
      If you get it, you know they want to keep you.
      If you don't, well, you're going to be driving somewhere, might as well drive to a place that wants to pay you handsomely.

    3. Re:This Worked So Well For Yahoo! by campuscodi · · Score: 2

      That's why she'll make $23 million after she resigns her CEO position at a company she just sold for a meager $4 billion, after being worth $90 billion. Great decision (among many). Bravo!

    4. Re:This Worked So Well For Yahoo! by ghoul · · Score: 2

      H1Bs will be happy to fill these roles. Anyway they are leaving their friends and families. New York, San Francisco, West Bumfuck, Alabama. Its all the same to them.

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
  7. Inspired by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "really creative and inspiring locations."

    That sounds like my boss, before he stuck me in a windowless basement with little ventilation... (FML)

    1. Re:Inspired by scsirob · · Score: 1

      This. I worked for IBM for a couple of years and it was the darkest, least inspiring office I have ever been in.

      --
      To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
  8. yeah, because that's what IBM is know for by originalmouse · · Score: 1

    the business suited, company-song-singing, Brutalist architecture and monotonous color scheme are all strong indicators of "inspiring" design elements. "your house is too colorful. come back to the office where everything is so boring you'll sing company songs just to feel something!"

  9. Team Connection and BluePages by MarriedGeek · · Score: 1

    Team Connection and BluePages were the two things IBM did right. With those we rarely had to play telephone tag when I was mobile.

    --
    sig = null;
  10. Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From TFS:

    one more thing: "really creative and inspiring locations."

    Having worked for IBM back in the 1980's (in Boca Raton, FL), I can provide a datapoint: IBM labs (the MITRE Kanji printer labs, specifically) were incredibly uncomfortable, required long, annoying walks from the parking lot and between locations and buildings, and were run in an extremely uncreative manner. To describe the environment, I'd go with "windowless, cold, and cavelike." Truly a shitty place to work. Whereas working at home... okay, now that is a creative, inspiring location. Because like pretty much anyone who puts a home together, I designed it specifically to be that way to my specific interests and inclinations.

    Now... it's been a long time, and perhaps if they re-hired me, they'd amaze me with a comfortable office with a view, a nearby, well-stocked cafeteria, an in-office hutch for my dog, and a secretary to handle the reams of make-work reports. Or perhaps there are no more reports (cough... cough... sorry, can't even write that with a straight face.) I find this, or any reasonable equivalency to it... unlikely. But perhaps they are actually in a position to do this now.

    But then again, my experience there was so bad, I'd never respond to an IBM recruiter again, even if I was in the market for a job, which I am not.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Kobun · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I love that they are banking on people being able to interrupt others' trains of thought as a major benefit of this transition. Anything that helps them die faster.

    2. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any marketer/sales droid that relies on phones instead of email and messaging should be fired.
      Does anyone ever like calling/being called by them?

    3. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBM labs ... were incredibly uncomfortable, required long, annoying walks from the parking lot and between locations and buildings, and were run in an extremely uncreative manner. To describe the environment, I'd go with "windowless, cold, and cavelike." Truly a shitty place to work.

      I was a contractor at IBM Austin in the 90s. Wasn't horrible, but certainly not creative or inspiring

    4. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, one of the key benefits of working at home is control of the environment, and that most assuredly includes who gets to interrupt, or not, and when.

      Working in company offices, I did some pretty good work. I tried hard, despite being very uncomfortable and unhappy. That was the job. But working at home, I did great work, became financially independent and most definitely happy. I loved (still do) my office and would (still do) burn huge numbers of hours in (t)here really Getting Shit Done. I also established myself in a very low cost-of-living location, doing high pay-in-employment work. Remotely. That's a really nice side effect of remote work, or at least it was for me. Hearing about real estate expenses in areas like Silicon Valley and various similar enclaves, I can only shake my head at the difference. I spent less in total (under $100k, all told) on nearly 6,000 sq feet of totally custom (and admittedly very eclectic) environment than most of the people in those areas spend on one bedroom apartments in less than 4 years ($2300/mo.) It really matters to your quality of life where you put your roots down.

      TBH, I think one of the most programmer-hostile things a company can do is say "you have to work where we are." The tech exists, and has for some time, to make that completely unnecessary. Even if "constantly interrupt and monitor" is part of the company's operations protocols, that too is 100% doable. Throw the employee a fast connection and a good desktop, a webcam and a mic... whatever you need to do to keep in touch, you can do. Should cost a metric fuckton less than providing them office space "at" the company, too. I have never, ever, heard a decent argument for the requirement that warm flesh be present in the room in order to get good work done, or out of any employee. Frankly, if the employee can't work like that and do good work, they sure as **** aren't doing great work for you in any bloody office.

      But, you know. I'm old, cranky, successful, independent, and can say these things with no fear my supervisor will see them. :)

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    5. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by number6x · · Score: 1

      I think that I have an additional example for you.

      In the 1990's I worked for MCI at the Garden of the God's facility in Colorado Springs, Colorado. It is currently occupied by Verizon and Xerox. That link has a few images of the place, but they do not do the site justice.

      It was a beautiful state of the art building with a beautiful view of the mountains, great parking and a few minutes walk from the incredible Garden of the Gods park. Before MCI was located there it was a Rolm phone facility. Rolm was a division of IBM.

      How is this beautiful workplace, in an incredible setting, an example of another data point for you? Obviously it didn't meet IBM's needs of being "windowless, cold, and cavelike" enough for them, so they abandoned it.

    6. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I know...the ability to "interrupt" is a horrible one.

      I've been working from home for a few years now, and I even turn off the damned IM products they have tried thrusting upon us...latest one, Lync.

      I can't get a damned thing done without someone trying to annoy me on lync, and it usually is NOT something that is a priority item.

      I will fire it up and join a meeting when needed, or desktop sharing is absolutely required, but for 99% of my time, I do not need it and it is detrimental to my work and concentration.

      Fortunately, I've been around long enough where no one really presses me on it like they do others...but I find email to be best way to work, it is asynchronous, and AND...I think it leaves a much better paper trail for CYA when needed at future times.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    7. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any marketer/sales droid that relies on phones instead of email and messaging should be fired.
      Does anyone ever like calling/being called by them?

      Well, anti-social little me does.

      But only when it's from someone I know and have a good relationship with.

      Which pretty well rules out many so-called modern businesses where the turnover is so high that you never speak to the same person twice.

      Which. comes to think of it, included IBM's OS/2 support engineers. One reason why we switched to Windows.

    8. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I can't speak for Austin. But Florida business parks are often widely-separated buildings in the midst of vast humid sweltering heat islands. And that's in February.

      Then you get inside the building and you'd think it was November in Minnesota. Because apparently being so cold that you spend all your time thinking about what office furniture to burn for hear makes you more "productive".

    9. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Spot on. I used to use the hell out of email and preferred it, same reason.

      Lately, I've found slack in a web browser to be similarly async; I look at it when I'm ready, respond when ready. The richer environment -- the images, clips, etc., the ability to go live at any moment -- have moved my preference to Slack / Ryver (these are basically the same thing.) If only they'd let us have a richer text rendering environment... I've written a few bots for Slack, and I spend a fair amount of time chafing at the limits. But still... an improvement over email.

      I keep slack on it's on window on its own monitor (I have eight monitors on this machine) so it's just a glance away. Usually that's all it gets. A glance. :)

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    10. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Greyfox · · Score: 1
      Yeah, I worked the noon to 9 shift at IBM Boca for a while. About half the time, the afternoon rain storm would blow in a bit early and I'd get drenched walking from the car to the building, which they kept at 72 degrees all year round. The next couple of hours usually consisted in trying to avoid slipping into hypothermia and dying in the building.

      Last time I left was in 2005 in Colorado. At the time, they would just throw a bunch of people in a room. They were nice enough to throw up some half-cube walls so we could face the wall and get some semblance of a distraction-free environment. They still think they can pay well below market rates just because they're IBM, even when they're hiring you on as a third party contractor and even though their FTE benefits program is only marginally better than the third party contracting houses are offering these days.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    11. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been working from home for a few years now, and I even turn off the damned IM products they have tried thrusting upon us...latest one, Lync.

      I can't get a damned thing done without someone trying to annoy me on lync, and it usually is NOT something that is a priority item.

      You have the option of not signing into Lync, or to change your status in Lync to "do not disturb" or similar. If someone bothers me, I am free to let him/her ring. They soon hang up, and send the message (or a request for a meeting) by email.
       

      Having said that, I decline most - but not all - of the Lync meeting invitations I am given. If anyone objects to that, I merely say that I was a requested participant, not a required one. Alternatively (if I was a required participant) I just say that the time did not suit me. Maybe I'm away on business, or on vacation, or it's outside working hours, or...

    12. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Motherfucking+Shit · · Score: 1

      Any marketer/sales droid that relies on phones instead of email and messaging should be fired.

      The worst ones use both. You answer the phone and the guy's like "Hey this is Gary from Solar Winds, did you get the email I just sent you?" Fuck no you spamming cockwipe, my entire company rejects email from your entire company, and I guess I just found a new phone number for our PBX guy to filter out. Why in the hell would you send me an email and then call me about it moments later? Fucking marketers.

      --
      "BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
    13. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh good god, walking between locations to get to work? ... the horror.

    14. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by rholtzjr · · Score: 1

      I have left better companies because they did not allow work from home. I agree this is just another way of cycling employees out the door with no severance.

    15. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by DutchUncle · · Score: 1

      I work in embedded systems, with prototype hardware that gets modified. It's hard to work at home for part of the development cycle. OTOH it's stupid that they insist on everyone coming in for spec writing and other paperwork.

    16. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It really matters to your quality of life where you put your roots down.

      Depends on your stage in life. When you're in your 40s or 50s and have kids (and can basically tell your spouse and kids, "well, it's where we have good jobs, so we're not moving"), yea, that'll make a huge difference. When you're in your 60s and know where exactly you want to live the rest of your life, sure.

      When you're in your 20s and 30s, and you may not be married or necessarily have a ton of friends, and family connections aren't enough to keep you in your home town... you might like being near a big city where there's tons to do and a wide variety of people around. Sometimes those low cost of living areas are extremely limiting in other aspects.

    17. Re: Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny you mention the pay; I just went through the interview process for a remote position. When the question of pay came up, they wanted to make me an offer based on prevailing wages in my current location. Since I made the responsible financial decision to live in the rural Midwest, that sucks. The "typical pay" for a senior level Linux admin (actually just based on cost of living) is not very high. In fact, it's less than half the rate the company would pay for someone doing the same work In San Francisco.

      It's a fantastic deal for the company; they'd be getting a 200K+ engineer for around 80K! Or it would've been a fantastic deal. As it turns out, I'd prefer to be paid what the work is worth to the company in question, not what it's worth to a local ISP or whatever.

      And yes, I did ask if I would get a bonus when I work from a more expensive hotel for a couple of days, or if I'd have to take a pay cut when the big local employer shut down and depressed the local economy. Apparently that kind of rational thinking is not common there, meaning they don't have people I'd like to work around.

    18. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as you are reciptrocating with just using email as well. From what you said, this seems to be the case, but I've had co-workers whose Skype for Business oddly only works when they need to get a hold of me. All other times they seem to be off-line or DnD 24x7.That seriously pisses me off.
       
      If I'm going to break my concentration to help you out, you better be willing do the same.

    19. Re: Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Yeah that's bull. It would be different if you were costing them more somehow from your location, but you living in a place that is low cost is a decision that you made and you should reap the benefits of it. It is not an opportunity for some company to get work for cheap.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    20. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      But, you know. I'm old, cranky, successful, independent, and can say these things with no fear my supervisor will see them. :)

      You know things are really backwards when the old farts are reminiscing about the good old days when they could work remotely.

    21. Re: Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use to think that a former colleague that would tell people he would report them if they continued to use the word "engineer" in their job title despite not actually being an engineer was being overly anal.

      Over the years, I've come to agree that misusing "engineer" makes you a cunt who thinks of themselves way more than they are worth.

      They dodged a bullet with you.

    22. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      I've done that. I have a decent lab right here. Most prototypes can be made in > 1 quantities. I did a couple front-to-back systems right here, too, back in the day. Not saying it doesn't change the dynamic, but it's not always a show-stopper, either.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    23. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      No argument here. I think the conditions you folks have to deal with are fucking horrible.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    24. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      If you're waiting for IBM to die, maybe just hold your breath and stamp your feet? I mean, come on. You don't have to like IBM. Nobody asked you to like IBM. IBM certainly doesn't care what you think. But look, what sort of idiot thinks IBM is going to "die?"

    25. Re: Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Again, just as a data point, but at $80k, you could live like a king here in Eastern Montana. If you can deal with the rural aspect of it. We do have Internet. :)

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    26. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Aighearach · · Score: 1, Funny

      You can't get hypothermia at 72F without some exceptional circumstances that do not include having damp clothes. What you had was just a case of the whineys.

    27. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by lucm · · Score: 1

      Any marketer/sales droid that relies on phones instead of email and messaging should be fired.

      The worst ones use both.

      My favorite ones? "Hey it's Gary, let's go right now over the exact same points we'll discuss with other people in the meeting we have in 20 minutes."

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    28. Re: Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, you're getting a modern "Open Office Plan" where you work with your buddies at a shared worktabke everyday!

    29. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been working from home for a few years now, and I even turn off the damned IM products they have tried thrusting upon us...latest one, Lync.

      Google has a policy that SRE do not have to use Hangouts, only irc. If someone wants to chat, SRE policy says the SRE can demand they use irc if they wish. It was put in place because Hangouts because group message reliability when interoperating with GTalk is bad (it silently drops messages on the floor), and logging which is needed during outage resolution doesn't work with corporate off-the-record default, but the policy has the nice side effect of taking pop-up notifications off the table for anyone who chooses to invoke it. Unfortunately, few do, so there's social pressure to sign in: vaguely accusing "I couldn't get you on Hangouts" emails, and comments on peer reviews. At least if you get a pointy-haired boss who always wants you to "be available" if they "need" anything, you can escalate with the policy, but that doesn't help much unless you can immediately find a new boss before they retaliate on your perf rating.

      It's telling that this culture of interruption which is so obviously inefficient and disrespectful to the way programmers work is still entrenched, even at companies were more than half the people are programmers. What do we need to do differently to get our way? Do we lack backbone to say, "No"? Do we not follow through on our threats to leave? Are we not mindful enough of how interruptions affect us to truly believe the apparent consensus, so we think "unblocking" a pointy-haired colleague is actually more valuable than higher programming quality and output? Do interruptions affect only a subset of programmers, and the others aren't backing us up on the mental environment we need to be healthy?

      None of these are good reasons.

    30. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by michael_wojcik · · Score: 1

      IBM labs (the MITRE Kanji printer labs, specifically) were incredibly uncomfortable, required long, annoying walks from the parking lot and between locations and buildings, and were run in an extremely uncreative manner

      When I was at the Cambridge Scientific Center in the late '80s / early '90s, it was quite a nice space, and had a very casual culture, by IBM standards. No dress code, posters on the walls, etc. And we had (shared) offices, not cubicles.

      Sure, it's an anecdote - but then I'm not the one generalizing about "IBM labs".

      And of course tastes differ. I wouldn't mind working at a location where traditional business dress was required, because I like wearing suits. For some people that's anathema. I wouldn't mind not having a window in my office (indeed I've spent happy years in such offices, and in fact they're useful for avoiding glare, etc) if there are windows in public areas. And so on.

    31. Re:Worked@IBM in 1980's, left, because sucked. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Playing devil's advocate here, but can you understand how to some people this makes you sound like you're not a team player?

      If a 5 minute interruption saves an hour of your teammate's time, isn't the team better off? I've been working for 16 years, the first 10 in an open-space, 5 in a shared office (my team of 4 in the same room, but isolated from other teams), and unfortunately now I'm back in an open space. But I don't have experience of a private office or working from home. But I really feel that interruptions from my own team, or overhearing my teammates conversations about the same code base that I work on has been valuable, and increases the team's long term productivity.

      I completely understand, and agree with, the argument that open-spaces decrease productivity. But to stop using IM and making yourself isolated from your own team seems extreme.

  11. Much consternation about nothing? by mykepredko · · Score: 1

    As RTFA, I'm struck that is affects 5.5k marketers (1.5% of the company's workforce) who are not getting the results that their boss is looking for. Ms. Peluso believes that the issue is with employees not being able to effectively work together because they are in different locations (ie their homes). She may very well be right and it's within her authority to bring the employees into the office.

    I guess you could argue that this is the thin edge of the wedge - more IBM employees from other areas who are working productively at home could be forced to come into the office but, before that happens, let's wait and see what happens here.

    1. Re:Much consternation about nothing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "First they came for the marketing parasites, but I did not speak out for I was not a marketing parasite..."

    2. Re:Much consternation about nothing? by tomhath · · Score: 1
      From the summary:

      Similar announcements had already been made in other departments, and more would be made in the future.

      In other words, it goes way beyond marketing. This sounds more like Phase One of the next round of layoffs; get everyone together to share their knowledge and have one more close look for performance reviews, then the axe falls, again.

    3. Re:Much consternation about nothing? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      "First they came for the marketing parasites, but I did not speak out for I was not a marketing parasite..."

      That's so cool! The marketing people are usually the last ones to get fired when a company is in a death spiral.

    4. Re:Much consternation about nothing? by ghoul · · Score: 1

      They need the marketers on board to sell it to the rest of the company. Once the marketers have gone through the pain of relocating they will take great pleasure on forcing the same down other people's throats.

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    5. Re:Much consternation about nothing? by Penguinisto · · Score: 2

      Even better - get all the company-issued stuff back onsite so it's easier to confiscate when the axes fall.

      Fiserv was (and likely still is) notorious for this during their periodic purges (they do it about once every two years, where x% of each department has to go, regardless of growth). It starts as a demand that all remote-workers come into the office... you knew what was coming next. Within a week or two they start canning all the victims, and everyone is back under the thumb to boot.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    6. Re:Much consternation about nothing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey! Guess what just happened yesterday at Fiserv!

    7. Re:Much consternation about nothing? by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      "She may well be right." Says who? We've all seen some similar and widely publicized changes at other companies, and at the last large corporation I had as a client I went through several similar changes brought about by newly installed department managers. And what I have wondered and continue to wonder is: what do they base this decision on? What data, research, managerial wisdom or personal experience makes them think this works? (And by personal experience, I don't mean "I work better in an office", but "When I brought back people into the office at Company X, productivity jumped by 20%."). Or is it really nothing more than a belief? While she may have the authority do make such a change on a hunch, she would do well to make damn sure it works before issuing policy that may have a significant impact on productivity and employee well-being, positively or negatively.

      Looking at how this has worked out at other companies, coupled with an increasing number of studies that suggest that constant collaboration amongst knowledge or creative workers has been vastly overrated and has been taken to a level that's pretty detrimental to productivity, I seriously doubt that she is right.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    8. Re:Much consternation about nothing? by Coisiche · · Score: 1

      It is the thin end of the wedge. Other departments are following suit.

  12. Result:Loss of the lots of talent. On purpose? by evolutionary · · Score: 2

    I know of no better way to piss off the best talent than to say, you have to move to our preferred location to keep your job because, well no particularly great add, just because.....Probably IBM wants to lay off people but this will backfire. The best who don't want to move will simply say, "Bye" and get offer from a variety of companies, even IBM competitors (who are most likely to hire them in a heartbeat on whatever terms they want within reason, including telecommute). The benefits of working together in office over telecommute are less and less with improving video phones, chats and cheaper availability of cell phones, unless there are specific company secrets you don't want in cyberspace perhaps. The end result will be the best of IBM's staff being "Exceptions" or the best leaving, and the most insecure moving, only to be let go later because they were the bottom of the crop anyway. This will be a no win in a series of non-winning actions.

    --
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
    1. Re:Result:Loss of the lots of talent. On purpose? by Gavrielkay · · Score: 5, Informative

      When this edict was handed down in my IBM department I quit. Found a new telecommute position for more money, more freedom, better products and management that actually appreciates employees. IBM was once a great place to work, but that was a decade ago. Now I'm only ashamed I stayed as long as I did.

    2. Re:Result:Loss of the lots of talent. On purpose? by Tanktalus · · Score: 1

      Is there a way to send private messages on slashdot? Where did you find this other gig? I'm in the same boat, work-from-home for 15 years, need to find something before IBM lets out. :(

  13. IBM does not want any USC working for them by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    IBM does not want any USC working for them they want chained to the job 1hb's.

  14. Marketing by Bruinwar · · Score: 1

    This is what happens when you let a Marketing Puke run (ruin?) a company.

    --
    SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT
  15. Least of IBM's worries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As someone who works with IBM on a daily basis, and whose team has a standing rule to multiply user story point estimates by 2.5 if IBM is involved in some way (yes, really), I believe this is the least of IBM's worries. This company has systemic failure after failure to deliver on any commitment, service, hardware or legally based.

  16. Because "One-Size-Fits-None" by xanthos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    *sigh* Will MBA schools please start teaching all the C-level wanna be's that while treating all your employees the same is the easy route to follow it is rarely the best route. Sacrificing known productivity increases from remote work for some mystical hoped for innovations seems to be a bad bet. I can actually see it making sense for the highly creative individuals doing marketing campaigns, but I can't see it being of much use to those whose job is to track and squash code bugs.

    Here's a theory that should fit most Slashdotter's world view:
    The real driver is that the bosses are missing the adulation of the crowds and the face to face sucking up denied them by remote work.

    --
    Average Intelligence is a Scary Thing
    1. Re:Because "One-Size-Fits-None" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You... really aren't understanding the mindset of the MBA schools. Or perhaps you are and yet you hold out hope in the face of all contrary evidence.

      I just watched a documentary-style report on an MBA school. Their idea was to hire ex-military people who have set up "retreats", put the MBA students into the retreat, stress them out like crazy and build something while they are stressed out. The kicker was, the ex-military hosts deliberately planted someone in the MBA group as a sh*t disturber. Seriously, the whole point of the plant was to sow confusion, discord, and negativity. Not so much as to reveal their role as a plant, only enough to disturb group dynamics.

      The theory, such as it was, was to challenge the groups with a team member whose mindset wasn't that of a team player. Then see how the group responded, and see if any leaders emerged.

      MBA schools are built around the idea of a school of piranhas. The biggest, meanest, baddest piranha wins, and they want that. Team membership is a bit of a sham to get the group to line up behind such leaders. All the rest of the team mantra is mainly window dressing to get compliant behavior from the team members.

    2. Re:Because "One-Size-Fits-None" by drew_kime · · Score: 1

      I have a notepad on my desk that has printed at the top of each page: "Teamwork is a bunch of people doing what I say."

      It's supposed to be a joke.

      --
      Nope, no sig
    3. Re:Because "One-Size-Fits-None" by Enigma2175 · · Score: 1

      That's funny, because I have a demotivational poster at my desk that says "Teamwork - Ensuring that your hard work can always be ruined by some else's incompetence". It's not a joke, it happens every day. Like the "meetings" demotivational poster says: "None of us are as dumb as all of us".

      --

      Enigma

    4. Re:Because "One-Size-Fits-None" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Business leadership in general is akin to a wolf being made leader of a flock of sheep.

  17. Yeah, like that worked for HP... by stoyan3822 · · Score: 1

    Obviously Michelle didn't check with Meg (Whitman). This didn't help HP, I bear witness. Also, chats/PMs are GREAT - as long as you don't use them as substitute to actually talking to people.

  18. newsflash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    When poor leadership is the problem, it doesn't much matter where people work from.

  19. New Culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Michelle Peluso , just Sametime me bitch! So Needy.

  20. There was an old saying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Back in the day...

    IBM = I've Been Moved

    1. Re:There was an old saying by Kiaser+Zohsay · · Score: 1

      Raleigh is on the list which I assume means RTP. And a lot of the people who popularized that expansion of the acronym were the ones who came to Raleigh when the RTP office was built.

      --
      I am not your blowing wind, I am the lightning.
  21. Worked with Yahoo! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some years ago, Marissa Mayer tried to reinvent Yahoo! and one of the things she did was putting an end to telework. It must have worked out great for her and now IBM is trying to copy Yahoo!'s success.

  22. Working remote is better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Being in an office and "popping" up to ask someone a question is disruptive to other peoples work too.
    If people are not responding to your inquiries and they're valid, that's a coaching issue for that employee, nothing more.

    I've worked remote for 6 years and have never had an issue getting my work done or collaborating with co-workers that were working on projects with me and there are so many collaboration tools which makes remote work seamless.

    Working remotely makes it easier for the employee and can actually produce better work from them. There is no time wasted commuting back and forth, no wasted gas money, wear and tear on your vehicle or cost of public transportation.

    1. Re:Working remote is better by tylersoze · · Score: 1

      Yeah I'm never going back to an office. I went one step further, and also switched to contract work as well. I mean I know it's not for everybody, but for me both changes have been great for me personally.

    2. Re:Working remote is better by green1 · · Score: 1

      I work at home more than 80% of the time, When I do have to be in an office my productivity tanks. Most of the day is filled with idle chat instead of actual work.

  23. Really creative and inspiring locations by Solandri · · Score: 1

    Like India!

  24. I can't work at home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I ever tried to work at home, it would be an unending stream of distractions... wife... kids... 4 dogs... I'm thankful for my open floorplan office where I am surrounded only by a bunch of 20-somethings and their dogs.

    1. Re:I can't work at home by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      The wife and kids can be told to leave you alone. Co-workers not so much.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    2. Re:I can't work at home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So dogs at home equals distraction, but dogs in the office do not?

    3. Re:I can't work at home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is not in common between the GP's home and work environments?

    4. Re:I can't work at home by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      This is why it's best to not have any dogs or kids, and have a wife who has a professional job at an office, plus a couple of cats.

  25. And Dragged Out Of The Coding "Zone" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "When you're playing phone tag with someone is quite different than when you're sitting next to someone and can pop up behind them and ask them a question," Peluso says.

    And drag me right out of the coding zone, wasting a lot more time than if I was allowed to respond to your voicemail/email at my own pace.

    Not all IBM employees see it that way.

    No, I'm pretty sure all employees do see it as "quite different". The difference is whether it is a good, bad, or neutral different.

    1. Re:And Dragged Out Of The Coding "Zone" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, dear sir, are you not aware that whatever it is that I need to ask you about is infinitely more important than whatever it is you are working on at this very moment? And, the fact that I need an answer right this very minute, which in and of itself is a testimony to my stunning lack of ability to plan, nevertheless should inspire a sense of urgency in you to drop what you are doing to help a teammate be successful.

      Or something...

  26. Factory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can't make a place a sweatshop if employees can't be whipped conveniently.

  27. Gets rid of your best people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

            They did the same thing at the last company I worked for, made all the remote workers start reporting to the nearest office. The company only had a couple of offices in the US, so many of the sales and marketing people worked remotely. The net effect was that all of the good sales and marketing people who had long standing relationships with our customers left the company, taking their knowledge and customer relationships with them, a number ended up working for our competition. Rather than improve efficiency, this policy alienated our customers, got rid of our best sales performers, and hastened the demise of the company.

    1. Re:Gets rid of your best people by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      Yes, but was this a bad decision by management? If the CEO walked away with a huge payout, then the answer is no.

    2. Re:Gets rid of your best people by aberglas · · Score: 1

      +1. People miss the real point.

    3. Re:Gets rid of your best people by dbIII · · Score: 1

      While the buck is supposed to stop with management many of these stupid types of things originated in HR.
      Mining companies mandating a FIFO (fly in fly out) workforce that depart from major cities where the HR people want to work instead of employing locals is another example of this.
      At the root of this current thing is probably a HR manager who is annoyed that remote staff are creating extra work for them.

  28. So the implications... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 2

    The implications are that either (a) IBM can't properly technologically provide for remote work or (b) IBM is unable to manage remote workers properly. Neither bodes well for their business.

    --
    That is all.
  29. same bitch from travelocity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    only thing she did there was spend 20 million for some idiots to come up with the roaming gnome

  30. What year is it? by moorley · · Score: 1

    Theory X and Y is strong with this one.

    Managers who continually look to put employees into their own egotistical context, rather than focus on performance are not ones I'd wish to work for.

    Working for HP and Intel was never inspiring but IBM seems to be showing it's roots as an old behemoth of a company. I am sure they will do well in the 21st century with 19th century values. They have been around since the late 1800's, who dare tell them they are wrong?

    --
    "Don't fear death... fear not living..." -me :)
  31. Operational inertia by xtal · · Score: 1

    Companies that inspire turnover but are otherwise stable collect cruft from employees who are competent enough to not be fired, through whatever means, but not talented or crafty enough to have options.

    Short term this bloats the organization, as more people are required to accomplish the same tasks, but long term, limits the ability of the company to do anything or change tactics - gaining more and more inertial mass.

    This is just a perturbation that moves IBM along that chain.

    I accepted a job offer from IBM in the 90's after going through their lengthy and involved interview process.I didn't make it to my first day as the reams of paperwork I had to fill out before ever setting foot in the door were terrifying.

    You can fight change or embrace it. IBM's competitors will be more agile. It's pretty clear that the future will be dominated by distributed teams with the absolute best people for the problem set working on it, almost certainly in a remote fashion. I'm writing on a computer's who's operating system was done in just sort of a fashion...

    --
    ..don't panic
  32. good news by amiga3D · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is great news. The explosion of talent into new venues should make for a resurgence in creativity. All the people that will now look for work in their own location or better yet, start up their own business should revitalize things. As for IBM, they need to slim down anyway.

  33. Yahoo tried that too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe IBM marketing department is on the chopping block.

  34. Phone tag, humph! by goldencoder · · Score: 1

    Playing phone tag is so last decade! There's no excuse for not having one of the many available chat programs that remote employees can use to get in touch and ask questions - in fact we use it in our cubicle environment even though the person you need to ask a question of is only a few cubes away. Many times it's more efficient and allows the other party to decide when they want to answer rather than being interrupted.

    1. Re:Phone tag, humph! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBM is large enough that they aren't going to fit into one office anyway, so the "reasoning" behind Peluso's decision is really flimsy. Employees will still be having to communicate with other people who are remote to them (eg. a different office).
      I think one of the other poster's hit the nail on the head: this is a way to reduce headcount without layoffs and payouts.
      And as several other posters said, it's the best way to lose good talent first. The people who aren't good will tend to cling on to what they have.

    2. Re:Phone tag, humph! by Pauldow · · Score: 1

      this is a way to reduce headcount without layoffs and payouts.

      IBM payouts for layed off employees is next to nothing. In early 2016 IBM slashed their severance to only one month pay no matter how long the employee was with the company. Before that I believe it was 1 week per year of employment up to 26 weeks.
      What they like to avoid is announcing layoffs. That scares away all the new low cost graduates that they hire until they burn them out too.

  35. Tech companies can't use tech to collaborate? by zerofoo · · Score: 2

    What does it say that a tech company like IBM can't effectively use technology to get their teams to collaborate?

    1. Re:Tech companies can't use tech to collaborate? by nicolaiplum · · Score: 1

      There's no suggestion that the remote workers can't collaborate well or that IBM can't use the technology to do so. This move is stated to be based on an assertion by an upper manager that her people will work better in the same office, and that's an unsupported assertion. This stated reason may not even be the real reason (as noted in several comments here, this will cause people to leave the company, which may be convenient for her).

      --
      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled"
  36. Phone tag means no one wants to talk to you by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 1

    ' "When you're playing phone tag with someone is quite different than when you're sitting next to someone and can pop up behind them and ask them a question," Peluso says.' No wants to talk to Peluso, clearly by the pop up behind them and ask question statement we can all hate her together.

    1. Re:Phone tag means no one wants to talk to you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because that's what workers whose jobs involve deep concentration need - some support drone or marketing puke popping up behind them and asking a question.

  37. IBM just showed how ignorant they really are.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apparently they have no idea how to use things like webcams and Skype. Idiots.

  38. Orfice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One thing that struck me as strange when I started working in an office is how little people work. When I am at home, I have no reference to gauge by so I focus on my work and get it done. When you are in the office you realize almost instantly that you are the only one really working, as it becomes obvious it becomes easier to slack and just do what everyone else does.

  39. Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't global warming an existential threat?

  40. Old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This started happening over a year ago. I know many IBM developers, documentation, and testers who lost there jobs a year ago because of this. Someone at the top made this change across the entire company. If your an IBMer and haven't been notified yet you will be.

  41. Even highly technical work from home works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I am the president of a 5-person software development firm. Everyone works from home. We use video Skype daily. If you need to talk to a colleague, you see if they are online and you connect with them, even if it is just for a 30 sec conversation. All development is done in the cloud and our co-lo facility. The only real challenge has been our QA processes, which we are slowly figuring out. I have found that employees tend to put in longer hours when working at home, but are very content with their work-life balance. I can monitor their work both by seeing if they are online, and of course, by how much code they are checking in and if they are meeting their milestones. I have yet to any downside whatsoever.

  42. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  43. Was only slightly better back in the old days... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My father worked there during the 80s-90s expansions.

    His groups kept getting shipping from one location to a location a state away every couple of years, often mid-project.

    As a result of this he often ended up juggling two jobs plus work flights every couple of months to the moved to site. Thankfully he had gotten established as valuable employee and so the 'move or find a new company' ultimatum never came up. But the juggling remote work did cause a lot of stress and overwork. On the bright side he actually got paid better wages year upon year as a result of it.

    Sadly he has some assumptions about good workers STILL getting treated like that, which doesn't hold true to the same degree it did a few decades ago.

  44. Re:IMs in meeting by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

    If you're in my meeting and you focus on and answer IMs (and I outrank you), you will not be in my team's future meetings.

    If I later find out it was about a member of your close family's health or safety crisis, you are of course forgiven.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  45. This is bad for high-performance employees by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

    So here we have an exec who has the quiet and privacy of their own closed-door office pontificating that it will be better for the other employees to be jammed shoulder to shoulder in open-plan offices.

    That's not going to work for high-performance employees, such as those valuable 10x software-architects/programmers who have vision, focus, craft, and bursts of overdrive-productivity:

    https://hackernoon.com/know-th...

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  46. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  47. I dodged a bullet on this one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just got an offer from IBM and the job (by agreement with the hiring manager) would have been remote. I currently work from home - this is a must due to family/personal circumstances. The offer came in not very high, and given some consideration, I decided not to take it. Sounds like a dodged the bullet here - if I had accepted and then was told to move, this would have put my life in complete turmoil.

    Feel really bad for these people.

  48. Your post doesn't smell right... by gosand · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have a friend who is celebrating his 21st year at Intel. He has considered leaving a few times, but just couldn't because they take such good care of him. He gets stock options that come out to about 1/3 of my salary, he makes very good money, usually gets double-digit raises and bonuses that are about 1/4 to 1/3 my salary.

    Every seven years, he gets a paid 3-month sabbatical, in addition to vacation. This year will be his 3rd one. He had to move once for the company, and when he did they pretty much covered every expense.

    Quite honestly, I have known a couple of other people who have worked there, and none of them complained about it.
    What I was told about Intel was that they take care of their employees, and during hard times (like during the economic downturn) they take better care of them. It's how they keep good people. I always respected them for that. I can't say as much for any software or financial company that I have worked for in the last 24 years.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

    1. Re:Your post doesn't smell right... by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Until April 2016 ACT, anyway, when they fired all the ORMs to hire URMs.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    2. Re:Your post doesn't smell right... by gosand · · Score: 1

      I didn't even know what ORMs and URMs were, had to look it up.
      He is a white male, and he still works there. So I am about 99.99867% sure you were exaggerating when you said "all".

      I work with plenty of minorities, always have for 23 years at large and small companies. I have never ever seen preferential treatment towards or against minorities. I have always seen where we hire the best people we can given the constraints. Sometimes that was hiring a contract team instead of full-time employees, and sometimes they were offshore/nearshore, everyone from the US to Ukraine to Mexico to India. But the bottom line was that those teams were always temporary, and employees were protected when cuts were required.

      That is the thing about technology, we always want the best people we can get to do the work - I really don't care where they are from or what they look like.

      --

      My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  49. Remote work == PHONE TAG?? by Narcocide · · Score: 1

    No. Sorry I just can't let this one fly. Title should have been "IBM discovered to not actually understand the fundamental technology underlying a successful telecommuting strategy."

  50. IBM remote workers were/are good by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

    At my old job, we had a support contract from IBM for some servers that we were using for vitual hosts.
    Occasionally we needed to call for support help, usually odd hours in emergencies.
    The staff who were the MOST helpful, invariably, turned out to be people sitting in their homes doing remote support.
    After getting the same person on occasion, I learned sh ran all her support from a home office in Oregon with calls forwarded.
    Fantastic work, she'd occasionally say something like "get out of here" and mention it was her cat bothering her.

  51. Software engineering work is not management work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I may be wrong, but it seems to me managers assume that people doing other types of work need exactly the same environment as managers. This is absolutely incorrect. Software engineers need to be *alone*.

    I see almost all companies placing their software engineers in the *worst possible environment for productivity*, an open plan office. Nothing gets done. Productivity is basically zero. And the managers who do this are *absolutely clueless as to what they have done, or how different it could be*.

  52. Phone Tag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "When you're playing phone tag ..." Peluso says.

    Why not train employees how to use voice mail instead? If that many real time back and forth iterations are required (i.e.when email isn't as efficient) then there are bigger problems than forcing staff to "rub shoulders".

  53. Ex-IBM for 12 years, and glad of it by niks42 · · Score: 2

    I have to say that the decline started a long time ago. This is simply another symptom of a dying culture; it's a death throe. There is no technology issue that forces this change; there is no business, or cultural, or teamworking imperative. It's an attempt at controlling something that looks a lot like leakage. The view from the top, as IBM implodes must seem like someone is shoplifting all of the spare hours, taking all of the passion for the product line, the productivity and creativity away and they must get control back! What they have failed to realise is it's just the force of entropy; they've been shot through by Time's arrow. The only solutions are to re-invent or die.

    . I don't recall Louis V Gerstner worrying about remote working. I *do* remember him going crazy about having hundreds of Vice Presidents, none of whom could give him an elevator pitch on any subject of their choosing without having someone prepare a slide deck for them.

  54. Mainframes have been surprisingly resilient by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    I'm all for distributed systems, but for many big companies, mainframes still make a lot of economic sense:
    http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/...
    "While some believe that smaller distributed servers provide the agility needed in today's fast-moving cognitive era, the IBM mainframe is the preferred solution for many of the world's most competitive businesses, including:
    92 of the top 100 banks worldwide
    70%+ of the world's largest retailers
    23 of the world's 25 largest airlines"

    And see also, on a smaller scale:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
    "IBM designed IBM i as a "turnkey" operating system, requiring little or no on-site attention from IT staff during normal operation. For example, IBM i has a built-in DB2 database which does not require separate installation. Disks are multiply redundant, and can be replaced on line without interrupting work. Hardware and software maintenance tasks are integrated. System administration has been wizard-driven for years, even before that term was defined. This automatic self-care policy goes so far as to automatically schedule all common system maintenance, detect many failures and even order spare parts and service automatically. Organizations using i sometimes have sticker shock when confronting the cost of system maintenance on other systems.[1]"

    In general:
    "Why on Earth Is IBM Still Making Mainframes?"
    https://www.wired.com/2015/01/...
    "Business is more mobile than ever. Yet however lightweight those mobile devices feel in your pocket, they can still make good use of a big, powerful machine chugging away in a back room, not going anywhere."

    Mainframes are also more than just hardware. Mainframes are in a sense a culture of 100% uptime and reliability.

    That said, distributed computing continues to improve... And distributed computing culture continues to improve...

    As to the original article, IBM is still shooting itself in the foot with this move away from supporting remote work... What IBM needs to be creative is not colocation but "slack" in the Tom DeMarco sense:
    https://www.amazon.com/Slack-G...
    "Why is it that today's superefficient organizations are ailing? Tom DeMarco, a leading management consultant to both Fortune 500 and up-and-coming companies, reveals a counterintuitive principle that explains why efficiency efforts can slow a company down. That principle is the value of slack, the degree of freedom in a company that allows it to change. Implementing slack could be as simple as adding an assistant to a department and letting high-priced talent spend less time at the photocopier and more time making key decisions, or it could mean designing workloads that allow people room to think, innovate, and reinvent themselves. It means embracing risk, eliminating fear, and knowing when to go slow. Slack allows for change, fosters creativity, promotes quality, and, above all, produces growth."

    That was the great thing about IBM Research when I worked there around 2000 -- a bit of slack to be creative and good work/life balance. But, IBMers even then said the rest of IBM was not like Research...

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  55. Unfortunately not that simple by dbIII · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately not always that simple. Your local fire department resembles your statement nearly all of the time.
    Some places have very fluctuating workloads with short lead times so what looks like incompetence and overstaffing is sometimes (note sometimes) a matter of holding onto resources for those times when they need them. A way to spot something like that which is competently run is to take note of the amount of training and the secondary tasks that are carried out when the primary tasks do not require all hands. In comparison a place not so well run will just have people spinning their wheels and playing at workplace politics.
    I know what you describes happens, I've been a number on a list of staff being charged out to the client while sitting around waiting for ten hours a day (I left that fraudster swiftly - not good for the reputation), but it's not the typical situation.

    1. Re:Unfortunately not that simple by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Training can be easily included without having to inflate the books.
      You're talking about service availability here, which is one part of the picture.
      That major incident admin who only does actual work 3 days a year more than makes his salary worth if each of those 3 days saves the company 10M dollars in losses.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
  56. IBM could still be saved -- see my reading list by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    https://github.com/pdfernhout/...

    The most important for a company to re-invent itself is the first item and it relates to "shoplifting all of the spare hours":

    "Slack: Getting Past Burnout, Busywork, and the Myth of Total Efficiency (by Tom DeMarco)"
    https://www.amazon.com/Slack-G...

    He says there is a tradeoff between efficiency meeting old needs quickly) versus effectiveness (meeting new needs with flexibility & responsiveness).

    DeMarco points out that it is precisely the middle management layer that needs some slack time the most to be able to innovate in ways that lead to organizational learning. But everyone needs slack time to take part in that too. IBM is likely going in the completely wrong direction if it is reeling people in to presumably over-schedule them even more.

    I last worked for IBM in Research about sixteen years ago myself... The project I worked the most on was the IBM Personal Speech Assistant (a forerunner to Siri and such). The team was very proud that Lou asked for one for his office:
    http://liamcomerford.com/alpha...

    But -- I had enough "slack" then (after a year of hard work) that when my then supervisor (his site above) went on a two week vacation, I build a speech activated display wall out of used ThinkPads which looked a lot like a Jeopardy board. (A coworker said it was a a good thing I was not in the lab when my supervisor first walked in after his vacation. :-) I always wonder though if years later that spark led to the idea of Watson being on Jeopardy?

    Still think a conversational display wall is a good idea to pursue further. And I still want to make a programming language tailored to being edited easily via voice recognition. Of course IBM has long since sold off ViaVoice... And while there was some slack in Research then around 2000, I was told it was nothing like what was there in the 1970s and 1980s where a lot more creativity was possible. So, even then, these ideas were unlikely to be pursue-able.

    And also around 2000, on teamwork at Research, one thing I heard at lunch was someone saying something like "We hire the top people from the most competitive schools and then wonder why they have trouble getting along.." There is a certain lack of diversity as well from such hiring practices.

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  57. This is marketeers we are talking about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe working in an office saps productivity, but I imagine there's good info that many of those marketeers are not doing anything at home. Management wants them in the office at least part time so they can back-stab each other like they're supposed to. The entirety of a marketeers job is idle chat. Trouble is, their presence makes it hard for other people to get their jobs don. Management will find that out when they start bringing other jobs back to the office.

  58. Add more fuel to .... by JWW · · Score: 1

    Add more fuel to the concept that there is a "talent shortage". Companies are just completely unwilling to pay what workers are worth or offer them any training flexibility or even kindness.

    Modern employers feel completely entitled to perfect workers for dirt cheap pay and completely unfulfilling work.

    Then they whine "labor shortage".

  59. Creative and Inspiring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've yet to see a cubicle farm that is creative and inspiring. This woman should be applying for a position on Trump's PR team with bullshit like that coming out of her mouth.

  60. And by popping up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You throw away hours and hours of concentrated productive work to ask a simple question that could have waited or something you would have figured out by reading the email thread or knowing your own procedures... Good going marketing department, good going indeed... By popping up behind people.... What a creepy person would do rather than trusting their employees and looking at their actual results. Control freaks should not be in charge of IT employees, they will hurt the creative process and sow mistrust and misory

  61. Re:HPES pulled the same stunt by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 1

    Anyone who was still at HP after Carly Fiorina pretty much deserved what they got because the cancer was already terminal after that. Meg Whitman was pretty much just continuing the same policies.

    Not trying to slam... it's just the writing was on the wall after Carly. HP was sick and staggering; the good people had already left or were just working out the rest of their tenure before retirement. The management had no clear direction or even idea how to get the company back on its feet. Meg Whitman came in and pandered to the shareholders and has done little in my opinion that really has a lot of hope of saving the company. The company has split at a time when synergies between the two companies should have been strongest... that step in and of itself speaks volumes to how disconnected they are from business realities today. HPe and what's left of HPeS will continue to stagger along while HPQ will probably do a Lenovo and end up traded off to some Chinese sweat-shop builder.

    In fairness I never worked for HP, but did work for a number of MSP's and VARs so I know a LOT of people who were at HP. I know very few people who still are. I saw IBM do the same thing about 10 years ahead of HP... I am not sure why HP thought following IBM's lead was a good idea.

    Still, your last comment has some valid points; companies that rest on their laurels do not survive... particularly in IT. They need to be disruptive by their very nature, and few large companies seem to have an ability to do that. Thankfully, there are a few left who look like they might survive the long haul.

  62. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  63. Re:IMs in meeting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are a anal retentive person. A control freak.
    Half the people in any company meeting is probably doodling random drawings in between their meeting notes and shit, but if a person actually does something work related, possibly urgent (because yes, you would assume most people know the difference between an urgent IM and a non urgent one), you throw a hissy fit?

    Get your head out of your ass and get off your power trip.

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  65. Avoid a RIF by making people quit, got it by brainchill · · Score: 1

    This is BS .... The way that I read this is just that they are trying to get as many people to resign as possible without having to pay out severance packages knowing that a huge % of their employees won't want to uproot their families just to keep working at IBM. If the people quit rather than having a RIF they don't look weak.

  66. Free 1-2 Hours of Work by QlooQl · · Score: 1

    IBM will pay people the same, but now the employees will have a commute to and from work. This will add about 1-2 hours per day to the employee's "work". Even if IBM's claims are true that this will increase creativity/productivity, it is at considerable expense to every employee. What a great way to shake down your employees.

    1. Re:Free 1-2 Hours of Work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IBM will pay people the same, but now the employees will have a commute to and from work. This will add about 1-2 hours per day to the employee's "work". Even if IBM's claims are true that this will increase creativity/productivity, it is at considerable expense to every employee. What a great way to shake down your employees.

      Executives don't concern themselves with such things.

      Big corporations like this claim to be ethical - but they are not.

      Additional commuters means additional traffic on the road, additional maintenance of the roads, additional environmental pollution, additional expenditure of irreplaceable resources such as gas, additional stress in peoples lives, additional injuries and deaths from accidents - all bad things for the community in which a corporation operations. But corporate executives tend to be sociopaths, so they simply ignore the ethical conflict of interests inherent to decisions on telecommuting policies.

      It's no different from abusing insider information, or forcing people to have sex to get good reviews, or forcing people to work extra hours or pay money for good reviews, or any of the other unethical things these scum routinely engage in.

  67. 24 hour work cycle by barrygrommit · · Score: 1

    I retired from IBM. I am not sure how a marketing group can operate only within the US time zones. Marketing is an international exercise.
    In my 10 years at IBM, I participated in online group meetings with folks across the globe.
    Project management meetings (IBM has excellent PMs) were usually set at US West Coast time, no matter who participated.
    But sub-meetings were "time shared"...this week India set the start time, next week Czechoslovakia, then the US, etc
    I had a nice office, near home, and no familial obligations, so it was ok with me.
    But, there were many others who had family and found it a real burden to join a 4AM meeting, or 10PM meeting.
    And to be forced to join from the office, then commute home...ouch.
    But, those are the rules.

  68. And? by whitroth · · Score: 1

    I mean, every libertarian I've ever seen online or spoken with, 100% of the time, says "if you don't like the company, or you can't find a job where you live, move."

    So everyone on the right should be cheering this....

    Actually, I'm surprised WFH ever got this far. I read, in the late eighties? early nineties? that companies with a lot of experience in telecommuting wanted their people in at least one or two days a week, not just for face-to-face meetings... but for the water cooler conversations that turn out to be critically important.

    Me... I do *not* want to work from home. When I'm at work, I'm at work; when I'm not, I'm not working. My current job, if I get contacted at home more than 2-3 times a year, it's unusual. And if I was at a job where they thought that they *OWNED* me, and could bother me when I wasn't at work any time they wanted, I'd have them paying time and a half or double or triple time, depending on day and time.

    I work to live. I do NOT live to work. And indentured servitude is forbidden in the US Constitution.

  69. I call bullshit by persicom · · Score: 1

    What probably happened is that one of the higher uppityups got a stick up his ass because he couldn't reach the person he wanted one day and made a big stink about it. What a freaking joke.

  70. IBM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They want Ro get rid of people on the cheap. However, the other factors include Sametime being complete crap, notes is dreadful and Connections is a total mess. This means their telephone bill is gigantic. Looking to save money on several fronts.

  71. You're doing it wrong, Ms Peluso by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "When you're playing phone tag with someone is quite different than when you're sitting next to someone and can pop up behind them and ask them a question," Peluso says.

    If this is happening, you're doing it wrong.

    I worked from home on a contract job a few years ago. We used IM to stay in touch - this way, even if your coworkers were working with a client, they'd see your question or request and could get back to you, usually with no one else the wiser, and without interrupting (except minimally) what they were doing. The customers never knew you were working several items simultaneously.

    We were one of five help centers in the company, and by far the most efficient, with the largest percentage of its workers doing so from home. All other help centers sent their "unsolvable" problems to us to solve, which we invariable did.

    In typical corporate mindset, when it came time to downsize, guess which center got shut down first? Well, the new boss (NOT the same as the old boss) did not like remote workers - she liked to be able to look over people's shoulders while they worked. I'm guessing it was more that she could show visitors a large number of "worker bees" that all worked for her - numbers on a computer are not nearly as impressive. And of course, their help desk resolution rates plummeted, but that no longer seems to be what's important.

  72. FYPTY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck you, proles, that's why!