Ivanka Trump To Take Coding Class With 5-Year-Old Daughter (hollywoodlife.com)

theodp writes: Speaking about women in STEM at a Women's History Month event at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum, new [unpaid] federal employee Ivanka Trump revealed she'll be taking a computer coding class with her 5-year-old daughter. "On a very personal level, as a mom I'm trying to do my part as well," Ivanka told the crowd. "My daughter Arabella and I are enrolling in a coding class this summer." Parroting supermodel Karlie Kloss (the girlfriend of Ivanka's brother-in-law), the first daughter added, "We're excited to learn this incredibly important new language together. Coding truly is the language of the future."

Comments

Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

GOTO FAIL

Re: Lesson 1

[lowkeyknight]

You pay taxes? Seriously? What kind of republican are you?

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

Having public healthcare is great. I'm glad a portion of what I make helps others.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently you don't read the news. The AHA it's over 10 million too health insurers since 2013. There's only one president you can blame for that one. AHA aka. ObummerCare is a failure!

Thanks Obama!

Re: Lesson 1

[bursch-X]

The country's infrastructure is already a shambles and I'm pretty sure Trump didn't do that.

Re: Lesson 1

[stealth_finger]

You can be shit sure he ain't gunna fix it. It's already worse than when he started.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you not attend school? Seriously, that second sentence is beyond incomprehensible.

Re: Lesson 1

[Joce640k]

Trump supporters don't need no stinkin' schooling.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

True. You look at Flint Michigan and it was the Republican Governor that caused the mess.

Re: Lesson 1

[Desler]

Nope instead your insurance premiums will continue to cover other people's bills. You know, since that's how all insurance works.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

A typical one. You do realize that the majority of the ultra rich, the ones people complain about not paying taxes, tend to vote Democrat, right? Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Jeff Bezos, they all tend to vote Democrat (I think officially they're registered independent). It's the middle class that tends to vote Republican, and the middle class doesn't make enough to do all the tax avoidance that the rich get. Hell, stop and think, next time Warren Buffet says income tax needs to be increased, think about who that hits. I'll give you a hint, the ultra rich don't typically have traditional "income" to be taxed.

Re: Lesson 1

[russotto]

Having public healthcare is great. I'm glad a portion of what I make helps others.

How Brave New World.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

Nor any stinkin' facts. It's all about being loud, crass and appealing to the simple people in the audience with meaningless and baseless claims.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

As evidenced by the initial post in this thread, right? Neither side has sole possession of the douche bag.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

So tax the people that afford to be taxed

Re: Lesson 1

[Maritz]

Thank God my taxes won't have to cover your doctor bills for much longer.

lol. You should check the news more often. Your orange hero fucked it up again.

Re: Lesson 1

[Maritz]

I'll give you a hint

lol. It doesn't know that Trump spazzed the healthcare act, but it's giving 'hints'.

Re: Lesson 1

[Maritz]

The laughing stock bit was sorted within 24 hours or so. Biggest crowd at the inauguration. Someone with shame would be embarrassed.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

What retarded thing are you trying to convey with your post? What object are you referring to?

Re: Lesson 1

[ranton]

The only FAIL here is YOU. The Trumps only know how to WIN, as evidenced by the election last year. Keep being butthurt, though, libtard. Thank God my taxes won't have to cover your doctor bills for much longer.

This seems like someone making fun of Trump voters with a trollish parody post, but I'm just not sure enough to rule out an actual supporter writing something this dumb.

Re: Lesson 1

[DutchUncle]

... Warren Buffet says income tax needs to be increased ...

No, Warren Buffet has said that it is illogical that he (making a lot of money) pays a lower tax rate than his secretary (making much less money), and has suggested that the EFFECTIVE TAX RATE on high income needs to be increased. On himself.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah and only provide government services to those who pay taxes, then see how far that gets you. GFY

Re:Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

She may pass, remember that she'll have Arabella to tutor her.

Re: Lesson 1

[GLMDesigns]

Really?

Flint Michigan's Mayer and City Council was Republican?
The EPA officials were Republican?

Who made the decision not to maintain the infrastructure for the last 40 years. Oh, yeah. Democrats.
Who signed off on the condition of the water pipes? oh yeah the EPA.

But you blame the governor. Yup. good thinking there.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

No misspellings, allowing for "libtard". Low levels of random capitalization. Proper use of punctuation. It was clearly a troll.

Re: Lesson 1

[ScentCone]

Nope instead your insurance premiums will continue to cover other people's bills. You know, since that's how all insurance works.

But that's not how Obamacare works, at least not for millions of middle-class people who are self employed or run small businesses and actually have to write a check every month. Their premiums have gone up hundreds of percent, and many no longer have the cash to go visit the doctor ... but because a small family might have a deductible of $20,000 ... they get no healthcare unless it's catastrophic, and they're still wiped out. For millions of people who WERE buying insurance and able to write a check to the doctor, they no longer can. The ACA is the Healthcare Prevention Act, but it certainly does work as the Democrats intended - a massive new tax that distributes middle class income to other people to buy votes.

Re: Lesson 1

[PoopJuggler]

The Trump know how to win the minds of idiots like you, that's all.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

... Warren Buffet says income tax needs to be increased ...

No, Warren Buffet has said that it is illogical that he (making a lot of money) pays a lower tax rate than his secretary (making much less money), and has suggested that the EFFECTIVE TAX RATE on high income needs to be increased. On himself.

So how much extra does he voluntarily pay then?

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

Where did I mention health care? Seriously, what is it about the anti-trump crowd who are so blinded by rage that they just insert their current anger into any conversation, no matter how unrelated it is to what was actually said?

Re:Lesson 1

[McPierce]

10 while DADDY_IS_PAYING_OR_HAS_ME_IN_HIS_WILL
20 print "LIES! ";
30 print "ALTERNATIVE FACTS! ";
40 print "FAKE NEWS! ";
50 end while

Re: Lesson 1

[MightyYar]

I think you'll find that he's voluntarily paying out most of his fortune to the Gate Foundation. Paying that money to the government instead of a charity would make him a fool, which he is not.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

healthcare has gotten more expensive as plans now have essential minimum benefits they need to cover. before you could buy a super low cost plan that essentially covered nothing in an actual emergency.
Deductibles are capped for a family at 14.3k so that's high but that's a lot lower than your claim. It's capped at that level since that is also the maximum out of pocket allowable under the law... so the chance of a medical bankruptcy is significantly reduced if not eliminated

And btw- you only have a deductible that high when you buy catastrophic insurance... oh and preventative care should be fully covered without hitting the deductible...

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

As a liberal shouldn't u be blaming the Russians for the state of the infrastructure as well as hacking into your toaster.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

So why can't the rest of us pay our tax money to well- vetted private charities instead of the government? Only plutocrats are afforded that privledge?

Re: Lesson 1

[ScentCone]

We have a plan for two people. Our state approved, ACA-mandated plan has a deductible of $13,100 - just for two people. Add children to that, and you're quickly much higher. That is NOT catastrophic insurance (on paper, anyway) - it's the Obamacare law that requires (say, in our case) people in their 50's to pay for full maternity insurance, drug treatment and mental health coverage whether we need or want it. There is zero chance of us having a baby now or in the future. Why are we required to buy coverage for that? Because the Democrats decided to charge a tax, and that's how they disguised it.

Our rates have gone up over 50% per year every year since the ACA went into effect. Up 70% for 2017, and government says they expect next year (2018) to see another increase of close to 90% again. That's how they get around the "out of pocket" limits - by hugely increasing the monthly premiums, which are VERY MUCH out of pocket, but which don't get you a dime of actual health care. And no, "preventative care" is not covered. You get things like simple blood tests one a year (for which you pay part of the visit, and the lab costs), but of course no treatment of any kind - preventative or otherwise - is ever included in that. The ONLY thing that would be completely covered without requiring the deductible, is child birth. How's that for hilarious.

Re: Lesson 1

[MightyYar]

That's his point - make his effective tax rate higher. But not just his, all people with his level of income.

Re: Lesson 1

[LynnwoodRooster]

Actual data shows that those "rich Republicans" tend to pay the most in income tax. The wealthiest 1% pay 40% of all income taxes even though they make just 20% of all income. We have a highly progressive tax structure with the rich paying well above "their fair share". Unless your implication is that only Democrats are rich?

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

There is zero chance of us having a baby now or in the future. Why are we required to buy coverage for that?

Right, why should men have to subsidize maternity care? Why should women have to subsidize prostate exams?
hint: that's how insurance pools work.

Our rates have gone up over 50% per year every year since the ACA went into effect. Up 70% for 2017, and government says they expect next year (2018) to see another increase of close to 90% again. .

Sounds like you should have just gone with the "no coverage" option.

Re: Lesson 1

[LynnwoodRooster]

Facts say otherwise about who the wealthy support. And I know it's popular to talk about "rich don't pay taxes" even though data says otherwise. The claim about "they earn money in different ways" is about capital gains taxes, which are taxed, for the rich, at 20%, which is a tax rate solidly in the top 10% of all payers. Essentially - everything you posted is wrong.

Re: Lesson 1

[LynnwoodRooster]

He may be the exception to the rule, because actual data shows the top 1% pay not only the highest effective tax rate, but twice their "share of income" relative to the total income tax paid. Buffet is most likely the exception rather than the rule - unless the rest of the top 1% are doing it wrong?

Re: Lesson 1

[ScentCone]

Right, why should men have to subsidize maternity care? Why should women have to subsidize prostate exams? hint: that's how insurance pools work.

So, the pool of people who are planning to have kids should pay for itself. There are millions of them. The pool of people who are biologically incapable of having kids are at zero risk of incurring that cost, and shouldn't pay for the risk of an occurrence that cannot happen. Women who cannot have children are not in the pool of women who will experience the cost giving birth. Are you foggy on that, somehow?

Sounds like you should have just gone with the "no coverage" option.

But you've just been explaining to me how affordable and reasonable and good it all is. Why the change of heart?

Re:Lesson 1

[CronoCloud]

THIS.....IS.....SLASHDOT, you should have written one that actually works!

#/bin/python3
daddy_paying_will = input("Is Daddy paying me or has me in the will? Enter Yes or No.\n")
if daddy_paying_will == "Yes":
        print("LIES\nALTERNATIVE FACTS\nFAKE NEWS\nSO SAD\n")
else:
        print("I'm Fucked.")

Took me a few minutes to come up with that, and I know very little about programming. Hmm, since these hour of code things are mostly turtle graphics I wonder if I could do it with python's turtle graphics module....back to vim....

#/bin/python3
import turtle
turtle.shape("turtle")
daddy_paying_will = turtle.textinput("Answer Question", "Is Daddy paying me or has me in the will? Enter Yes or No.\n")
if daddy_paying_will == "Yes":
        turtle.write("LIES\nALTERNATIVE FACTS\nFAKE NEWS\nSO SAD\n\nClick window to exit.", align="center", font=("Comic Sans MS", 32,))
        turtle.exitonclick()
else:
        turtle.write("I'm Fucked\n\nClick window to exit.", align="center", font=("Comic Sans MS", 32,))
        turtle.exitonclick()

That took me a bit longer, had to figure out how to prompt for input IN the turtle window. turtle.textinput is Python3 only. I leave it as an excercise for the reader to figure out how to change the default turtle to an image of Trump himself.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

I like these mandated coverages as much as I like the paying taxes to the school district. As a man, I have no plans of ever being pregnant, and my now-grown children were home-schooled.

It sucks, but a necessity.

What should be done is slide the FICA contribution window from $0 to $127k (for 2017) to, say, $40k to $250k. This would give an extra 7.65% of income to those make $40k (who could really use it), and have those make much more pay this non-negotiable/non-deductible tax (since, even at $250k during their earning years, they're likely to still use Medicare).

RRK

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember seeing the same thing for 8 years, from the right side, after Obama won. There will always be the loud, ignorant people from the opposite political side of the winner. ALWAYS.

Re: Lesson 1

[serviscope_minor]

You know that's not possible, right? If they figure you've overpaid tax, they send you a reimbursement.

Re:Lesson 1

[sycodon]

If understand correctly, you are both saying that since her "daddy" is rich, and you don't like her daddy, then anything she does is automatically invalid.

So she doesn't love her daughter, she doesn't really think coding is important, she doesn't really think girls should get into coding...because you don't like her daddy.

Seems to me this is pretty much the kind of thinking the Leftists accuse Republicans of all the time.

Ivanka is essentially lending support to the cause that Slashdot is constantly harping on. But because you don't like her "daddy", fuck her. Do I have that right?

You HAVE read the story on Slashdot about Trolling, right? So are you two just a couple of monkey flinging poo?

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you saying you were never born?
I just dobt understand how people think insurance coverage for births is all about the mother... wtf do you think YOU came from? Hint. It was a birth from a mother and without modern health care a very large number of you would not be here to bitch about paying for maternity care you 'will never need'.. because.. 'I got mine. Fuck you'

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

How perfectly Orewellian of you to compare a desire to help others to a dystopia.

War is peace, motherfucker.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

Forall (libtards : Libtardonia)
Thread.sleep (1000000000000000000000000000000000000000);

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

Having read a number of your contributions to this forum, how does one "win the mind" of your particular brand of idiocy? I'll venture a guess: flatter your intelligence until you start to believe the flattery is accurate.

Re: Lesson 1

[Cyberax]

Your data is for Federal taxes only. With state taxes, sales tax and the property tax thrown in, numbers change significantly.

Re: Lesson 1

[budgenator]

The real problem was the Democratic Mayor of Flint got cheap and didn't want to pay the Democratic Mayor of Detroit for clean treated water, so they got the water out of a cesspool called the flint river and didn't put any of the EPA required corrosion inhibitors in the water.

Just about any city in the US is one "Forgot to add the corrosion inhibitors" away from being the next Flint.

Re: Lesson 1

[HeckRuler]

YOU CAN!

Charitable donations are deductible. You are not taxed on that money. If you make $50K, and dontate $40K to your well-vetted (501c) private charitiy, then you are only taxes AS IF you earned a mere $10K.

This is available to everyone. The only hitch is that you have to itemize instead of taking the standard deduction.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. Tax them do they are poor as you. Ohhh wait. You fuck heads. The reason why people work harder (not you), it to make more to do better for thier family. You want me to get a raise and get taxed more.

Those taxes if you lazy most stupid pieces of shit did any sort of math, fucking assholes, are equivalent to hiring a person or more.

You have a business. Make a few 100k. You can hire a person. But you can't because assholes like you want to penalize hard working people.

Think gates sat in his ass? You simple minded turd.

We already seen that even a minimum raise hike causes companies to cut workers. And mandatory healthcare penalties cause business not not hire or fire.

Its the same with your tax bullshit. You want the government to take the money for what? Fucking doublchebag. More social programs that reward the lazy for not working hard?

Fuckimg liberal piece of shit you are.

You never think things throw. You and your lot of mental retards.

Re: Lesson 1

[LynnwoodRooster]

Nebraska income tax does not have a cap; Buffet is in the top category, and will pay the most of probably anyone in Nebraska. So it's not State income tax. Perhaps it's State sales tax and property tax? I guess we can consider those who rent and buy little other than food and medicine (both of which are exempt from sales tax in Nebraska) as gaming the system and not paying their fair share?

Re: Lesson 1

[Dread_ed]

I love this discussion. Two people, looking at their country falling apart, never holding their elected representatives responsible, only blaming their opposition for the problems.

Look, if you want results stop blaming the other party. It serves no productive purpose. If you want to remain partisan, against all reason and better judgement, fine, do that. But instead of attacking the other party, hold your own party accountable for what they do and don't do.

Look at all the problems of our country as the responsibility of the American people. We as a people, a whole, are responsible for the politicians we field. We, as a people, are responsible for the laws that are created. We are all responsible for the laws that don't get enforced, or are selectively enforced. We, as a whole people are responsible for the fate of our country.

You can go round and round talking about who did what forever. It doesn't get anything done now and it completely obscures your vision as to what to do to fix the problems going forward. You can't plan for the future when you are consumed with the past. It just doesn't work.

Your elected officials love to fan the flames of inter-party angst and rage. Don't fall for it. It's a mental trap that leads you nowhere. Their entire platform is designed to fracture the American public into factions and set them at each others throats. Divide and conquer is the only reason for the two party system.

Re: Lesson 1

[ScentCone]

My parents saved up the money to cover the costs of the birth and the time away from work needed to make it all happen. They carried simple catastrophic insurance just in case something way horribly wrong. Nobody is allowed to do that anymore. But if you're not in the solid middle class, it's OK, have all the babies you want - someone else will actually pay for all of that for you, or end up having to answer to the IRS, courtesy of the Democrats.

Re: Lesson 1

[ScentCone]

Most schools are paid for using property taxes levied from the areas where the schools operate. If you don't want to pay the property tax burden that includes that, live on property in a different jurisdiction, or move to a place that funds them differently, etc. But with Obamacare, you have a federal mandate forcing you to buy a service. If you are a 60 year old nun, you're still having to buy an insurance plan that guarantees you'll have your next childbirth covered. Absurd.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

You must live in California. I used to live there. Half my family is rich, and I worked directly for a few billionaires in Silicon Valley. They weren't progressives. Hardcore "those people are poor for a reason" folks, all of them. If I had a nickel for every time I've heard "liberals love to spend other people's money" I'd be rich, too.

Look up who funds the GOP, it's a bunch of very wealthy people. Dems relied on unions for years, which is why the GOP has been breaking up unions for decades.

Bernie Sanders shocked everyone with his small donor fundraising, millions of people gave a few dollars, but some of the GOP candidates had one or two donors and still made it to the debates.

The liberal rich people tend to get the attention, think Hollywood, the conservative rich people keep to their country clubs, they don't like to let their views out in the open where they may cause boycotts.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

And it already is. It's called the alternative minimum tax.

Re: Lesson 1

[thomn8r]

You do realize that the majority of the ultra rich, the ones people complain about not paying taxes, tend to vote Democrat, right? Citation needed

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

I think your own numbers there are telling even if you don't want to realize it.

You said: 1% of the people make 20% of the "total income" of the population.

20% of "the income", 1% of the people.
80% of "the income", 99% of the people.

That 1% are making so OBSCENELY much that even if they paid in 99% of their income they would still be making MORE the the average of the rest of the population.

Re: Lesson 1

[AmiMoJo]

When you say "middle class"... In the UK, our conservatives have convinced many working class people that they are middle class, so that they vote against their own best interests.

Re: Lesson 1

[AmiMoJo]

Mental healthcare should be mandatory. Same as vaccinations.

The problem with picking only the stuff you think you might need, is that people who need the other stuff end up not being able to afford it. That could be you one day - maybe you get some PTSD because of something a criminal with untreated mental health issues does. You need that cover, but it's going to be unaffordable and now it's a pre-existing condition.

From what I read about Obamacare your case does not seem to be typical. A few states have tried to sabotage it, but for most people it seems to be working well and is far more affordable than what went before. I'd be interested to see what your alternative is though.

Re: Lesson 1

[stealth_finger]

Nice try but I'm not even American. I say that as an outsider looking in.

Re: Lesson 1

[camg188]

If they figure you've overpaid tax, they send you a reimbursement.

BS. You can volunteer to overpay as much as you want and the govt. will take it all.

Re:Lesson 1

[CronoCloud]

If understand correctly, you are both saying that since her "daddy" is rich

Him being rich isn't the problem.

you don't like her daddy

Him being a narcissistic self-aggrandizing asshole with no respect for facts is. And he's been that way since I first read articles about him in the 80's!

then anything she does is automatically invalid.

Nope, but considering all the things he's done as a father, husband, businessman and politician over the years, I believe that a honest empathic person would want to have nothing to do with him.

This is a man whose company engaged in racist housing practices.
Who lied about who actually wrote his book
Who filed bankruptcy to cheat employees.
Who failed at the casino business which is a license to print money.
Who claims to be a great businessman but keeps failing at it.
Whose first wife was a model born in 1949
Whose second wife, a print model, was born in 1963
Whose third wife was a model born in 1970
Cheated on Ivanka's mother when Ivanka was still a child.
Once said that if Ivanka was not related to him he'd want to sleep with her.
"Grabbing pussy"
Birtherism
Bigotry

But she continues to work with him. Heck if my father had done HALF the stuff The Donald had done I'd have never spoken to him again and insisted he stay far away from me.

But she doesn't. What does she do after college? Spoiled Celebutante/model got a cushy job handed to her by her father, who ever since she was young treated her more like a trophy herself.

And now? A Job in the West Wing? And after years of Righ Wing outrage at Hillary because Bill Clinton had her work on healthcare (which was something she had expertise in from her actual education and work), nobody is saying a thing?

In fact, she's acting more like a "First Lady" than the actual First Lady is. Why isn't Melania taking this course herself and/or with 11 year old Barron? Heck why isn't the President HIMSELF doing it. President Obama did.

Ivanka is essentially lending support to the cause that Slashdot is constantly harping on. But because you don't like her "daddy", fuck her. Do I have that right?

No, I'm not saying to fuck her. But SHE shouldn't be doing this as a "member" of the Trump administration SHE or her brothers shouldn't be anywhere NEAR the White House. But hey, she's a spoiled princess who does what daddy wants because daddy holds the ultimate purse strings and she doesn't want what happened to Ivana, Marla and Tiffany to happen to her.

I just wrote my code to make a joke about how this is Slashdot, where nerds write actual silly working programs to make jokes. Which was at "Spoiled Princess Ivanka's" expense.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

As an outsider, WTF would you know about the infrastructure in the US?

Re:Lesson 1

[sycodon]

You just wrote your code to be a complete fucking asshole.

You succeeded.

Holy Fuck. Kill yourself and spare us all the knowledge of your existence. Seriously.. Do it, you mother fucking cunt. No one cares about you anyway.

Re:Lesson 1

[CronoCloud]

You just wrote your code to be a complete fucking asshole.

Did I not freely admit I wrote the joke at Spoiled Princess Ivanka's expense? And is there not that much a difference between her life and that of other spoiled Celebutante's like Paris Hilton?

Kill yourself and spare us all the knowledge of your existence. Seriously.. Do it, you mother fucking cunt. No one cares about you anyway.

Okay, so I say Ivanka is spoiled and her dad is a bad person and I should kill myself? Overreacting much? Really...kill myself? And I'm the "cunt"? You know, maybe YOU are the evil person by being a misogynist by using "cunt" as an insult, and telling another human being to kill themselves and that one one cares about them.

Re: Lesson 1

[stealth_finger]

As an outsider, WTF would you know about the infrastructure in the US?

Only what breaches the international news barrier, and mate, it don't look good.

Re: Lesson 1

[mishehu]

Sorry, but you're wrong. You will need to convince them that you didn't actually overpay, or failing that, convince them to hold onto the money as a forward balance on your future tax liability. How do I know? I've had them erroneously believe that I overpaid taxes one year, and this was exactly what I had to do.

Re: Lesson 1

[mishehu]

How exactly is that relevant? You do understand that over a certain amount of income that it's really no skin off their back to pay a larger portion of that money-over-the-limit? In other words, a family that earns $50,000 a year and pays $5,000 in federal taxes per year has a much greater need for that $5,000 than does somebody who just pulled in $300,000 per year. Those people pulling in $300,000+ a year did not do so just by themselves: no, because society exists with the given set of properties they were able to command such a large income. Is it somehow immoral to ask those who earn so much more to pay a larger share of their income to support that exact system that allows them to earn that much money?

Re: Lesson 1

[mishehu]

Cheese with your whine, sir? Again, you fail to understand the concept of insurance. Also, doctors told my grandmother she'd never be able to have children. She later proved them wrong by having 4 children at 4 different births.

I don't suppose you also complain about having to pay for public schools even though you don't have school aged children, do you?

Re: Lesson 1

[mishehu]

And there's not a single case out there of a 60 year old woman giving birth to a child?

Re: Lesson 1

[lowkeyknight]

Only with AMT, which Trump has argued against repeatedly, not surprising given that the one year we know he paid taxes the AMT accounts for the vast bulk of this tax payment, as it would for most of the 1%. But, more importantly. It. Was. A. Joke. at the expense of a troll. Seriously, get a sense of humor.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

As much as I enjoy reading your profanity, you do realize that trickle down economics is a euphemism for urinating on the poor right?

No matter how much money a company makes, the last thing they want is to hire more people. They only hire additional personnel as the final option, because getting 3 people to do the work of 5 people is much better for the bottom line.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

As an american expat, I can honestly say don't bother believing everything your country's news programs put out.

Would you believe everything the North Korean government media says about your country?

Propaganda news is nothing new, and if you think your country is above that sort of nonsense then you're an idiot.

I remember watching the BBC news talking about the new Ebola treatment that the US was hording to itself... it was then and is a still highly experimental treatment, and is made from the antibodies of survivors.

But the BBC had an angle to push, so that's how they reported it.

Re: Lesson 1

[tehcyder]

Having public healthcare is great. I'm glad a portion of what I make helps others.

How Brave New World.

How Ayn Rand.

Re: Lesson 1

[tehcyder]

YOU CAN!

Charitable donations are deductible. You are not taxed on that money. If you make $50K, and dontate $40K to your well-vetted (501c) private charitiy, then you are only taxes AS IF you earned a mere $10K.

This is available to everyone. The only hitch is that you have to itemize instead of taking the standard deduction.

Er, you still have to pay the $40 K out of your bank. I realise the libertarians here would rather gather up their cash and burn it rather than submit to the government enforcing taxation at the point of a gun, but still...

If the laws covering charity are insufficient to stop fraud, that's a different issue entirely. I'm not from the US so I don't know.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

You are pretty much like the butt hurt rioters breaking shit and assaulting people.

Ya. He's right. Kill yourself

Re: Lesson 1

[ScentCone]

And there's not a single case out there of a 60 year old woman giving birth to a child?

So, millions and millions of 60 year old women should have to pay hundreds of dollars more a month to cover the possibility that, post-menopause, despite being essentially unable to conceive, there is a tiny, tiny chance that they will get pregnant AND want to carry the pregnancy to term? Are you even listening to yourself? All of those people should have to cough up so much cash every month that they are budgeted OUT of being able to afford the actual health care appropriate to a 60 year old person, so they can have complete coverage for a one in a billion event? If this is how you're thinking about the situation, please don't do anything dangerous to other people, like voting.

Re: Lesson 1

[ScentCone]

Again, you fail to understand the concept of insurance.

What? If we DID have the "concept of insurance" in play, EVERYBODY would be paying (a fairly modest amount), so that when something catastrophic happens, everybody has the financial resources to weather that broken femur, etc. But that's not what the ACA is. It's a huge tax paid by only of the people, with the benefits given to a different group of people. It's an ongoing transfer of one person's daily work to another person's consumption of expensive services. It's nothing at ALL like insurance when tens of millions of people are told they get all of the benefits without carrying the same share of the burden. You may understand insurance, but you totally fail to understand that the ACA isn't about insurance, it's about a giant new entitlement program from which the group that gets the output isn't the group that has to pay for it.

Re: Lesson 1

[CronoCloud]

You are pretty much like the butt hurt rioters breaking shit and assaulting people.

No because I didn't riot or break things, I engaged in politcal discussion and engaged in political humor using a program. I did not say that Ivanka or her father should die, or that anything should happen to them. I did say she shouldn't work for him, that she is essentially a spoiled Celebutante and that Trump himself has been nationally known to be a self-aggrandizing lying asshole since the 80's....even earlier in NYC.

Ya. He's right. Kill yourself

Says the Anonymous coward internet tough guy, who is afraid to stand by their words.

Hey, I might have heard somewhere that Anonymous Cowards on Slashdot are basement dwelling gamergater fedora wearing aspies who jerk off to pre-pubescent girls in Japanese-animation. I don't know I heard it might be true, you tell me, you tell me. Anonymous Cowards are Fake Internet Smart guys who think that because they can write code they know everything about politics and think that their Trumpfenfuhrer will bring back the good old days when they could say sexist or racist things in their dudebro coder pen at work and get away with it. That he'll send all the Murkesh's and Samit's here on H1B's back to India That's what I've been hearing, you tell me, that's what people say, you tell me

Re: Lesson 1

[PPalmgren]

What should be done is slide the FICA contribution window from $0 to $127k (for 2017) to, say, $40k to $250k.

Working in payroll tax, That's actually a really good idea, in need of a few tweaks. That window is only for the SS benefit, Medicare has an unlimited window at 1.45% and doesn't cap, so you're talking 6.2% instead of 7.65%. The actual SS cap would have to be factored into current contributions, I don't think a tripling on the top would cover the funds lost, it may have to to increase to like $400k. Since the SS benefit gets directly tied to your SS later in life, that' have to be re-worked to not shaft lower earner's retirements.

One way is full-on redistribution, which would likely never pass, the other is require the companies to double match the first $40k instead and allow them a tax credit on the figure. This option has two major downsides in that it disproportionately taxes employers who employ more lower-skilled laborers, and removes the potential for SS solvency via cap increases during boomer retirement. The benefit (or downside, depending on how you see it) is it adds incentive to long-term full time employment rather than larger labor pools with higher turnover.

Re: Lesson 1

[LynnwoodRooster]

And those same 1% are then paying 40% of all income taxes (and something like 70% of all capital gains tax, and 35% of all FICA taxes). In other words - they earn "obscene" levels of income, but pay more than "obscene" levels of tax, well above anyone else.

Re: Lesson 1

[ScentCone]

A few states have tried to sabotage it

I live in the bluest of blue states, one which embraced the ACA fully and did everything Obama asked when it comes to playing along. The mandated coverage (things like maternity care for 70 year old women) are now so burdensome that the system is collapsing - we're down to two insurance companies left in the state, with one of them saying that they're losing hundreds of millions of dollars and will pull out next year.

Our situation IS typical - it's just that for most people, they're paying a large share of those huge premiums indirectly, by getting a smaller paycheck as their employer considers that whopping price tag to be part of their compensation. Everybody also pays indirectly as first-rate employers are now busy fleeing the state to set up in places that have lower costs. Or, those that are staying are negotiating other types of tax credits (on property, income, etc) in order to stay solvent if they want to keep participating in the state's economy. The ACA provides some medical financing for some people who previously wouldn't have had it, and it does so by breaking healthcare for the people being asked to actually pay for it.

It's falling apart here, in a state that is the prime example of one playing ball with what Pelosi, Reid, and Obama rammed through. Our state was willing to do the deal with the devil and expand Medicare, even knowing that in a few years when the your-first-hit-of-heroin-is-free federal subsidies for that would go away and all of those costs would fall on locally raised taxes. When you refer to the states that "tried to sabotage" this, what you're talking about are states that looked past the early pandering phase, and noticed that the ACA's state-level Medicare expansion would in short order come home to roost entirely on that state's budget - a huge new entitlement expense that would require such states to enormously raise taxes to pay for it. What it looks like to "expand Medicare" in the ACA's short term is completely pointless - it's like saying you have serious spending power because you have a credit card, and can put off paying it down for a little while.

What to do about it? The things the Democrats refused to do with their 100% partisan pandering law. Break down the 50 different state silos and allow people to shop across state lines for these financial services. Allow small employers and self employed people to join insurance-buying organizations so they can participate in far larger risk pools and greatly reduce costs for everyone involved. Pass tort reform, to actually get at some of main reasons that the actual practice of medicine is so absurdly high. These are all things the Republicans have been talking about for years. They had to leave them off of the currently-attempted bill for procedural reasons, since the Democrats say they'll block any attempt to pass the bill outside of the reconciliation channel.

The Democrats don't want a nation-wide market - that will cut down on some of their favorite campaign funding constituencies, which are bottled up in 50 redundant places. The Democrats don't want tort reform, because some of their biggest supporters are trial lawyers that get rich playing the frivolous malpractice suit lottery. Democrats don't want to allow small businesses to join larger market groups, because they prefer power to be invested in the government at every level, and consider larger pricate organizations that are oriented around market principles to be a threat to their more socialistic, nanny-state world view.

Re: Lesson 1

[LynnwoodRooster]

That person who earned $300,000 didn't pay $5,000; they probably paid (if we go by the published data) $60,000 in taxes. So exactly what you demand to happen IS happening. The data's posted, it's right here and it's completely correct. "The rich" pay disproportionately more of their income to taxes than the rest of the population.

So here's an interesting question: how much more should they pay? What would be the appropriate multiple of tax-to-income relative the middle class? Twice as much? Three times as much? Ten times as much?

Re: Lesson 1

[mishehu]

Nah. Any time I hear "it's an entitlement program", it's always somebody whining about how they have to pay for some random person out there who they are totally convinced is a lazy slob unworthy of assistance. There's a lot wrong with the ACA, but what you are outlining isn't the issue, and you totally do not understand the business side of insurance either. My ex was an actuary, so I know a bit better about how things work, and perhaps you should actually bitch to your state's insurance board for just being lackeys to the insurance companies?

Socialized medicine is the proper solution. We couldn't get that, so the ACA came about from the playbook of the other team. It's a small step in the right direction. Otherwise I myself would be having to pay more than twice I am right now to get coverage on a condition that I've had since childhood. And my late mom would very unlikely have been able to get the quality of care and treatment that she in her last years suffering from stage 4 breast cancer. So fuck you very much, you only exemplify how selfish you are and how lacking in empathy and even sympathy you are for others. It seems you haven't a clue how much money it costs to fix a broken femur, especially if you need to be taken by ambulance.

Re: Lesson 1

[mishehu]

Once again you show your ignorance to how insurance works. The answer is quite simply "yes". This isn't a salad bar.

Re: Lesson 1

[mishehu]

I'm not in charge of the economic well-being of the country, so I can only speculate on specific numbers. However, history has shown that having a large middle class with both the income and wealth disparity within certain thresholds is when the economy is the strongest. What we have here is an ongoing erosion of the middle class. So if that family has to survive on around $40,000 or so a year, and the earner of $300,000 has to survive on $230,000 year (or so, just rough numbers), I'm supposed to feel bad because the person who earned $300,000 only got to keep $230,000 of their income? That's 5.75 times the net income. Surely expecting them to pay even more, to the point that they even pay around $100,000 of their income, isn't going to cramp their style or make them need to sell a kidney to pay the rent.

Re: Lesson 1

[vandamme]

How much do YOU voluntarily pay?

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

We tax income, not wealth in the US. If you have your money already then you can easily support a 100% tax and only lose interest and future income.

Re: Lesson 1

[ScentCone]

Pointing out that one group of people carries the financial burden while another group gets the services isn't a comment on laziness or any of the other things you're projecting. This is structural. One family wakes up every morning a thousand dollars a month poorer, every single month, than they used to be. Another family wakes up every morning have access to a suite of services they're not paying for. Pending a change in the law, that relationship between those two families is a permanent one. The people receiving the services are NOT PARTICIPATING IN AN INSURANCE POLICY. They're getting something the government says they are entitled to, and another person is having to buy it for them.

Our state's insurance board are dyed-in-the-wool progressive liberal Democrats. They LIKE the fact that middle class people have had their rates quadrupled and their deductibles quintupled, because they get to participate in the grand re-allocation of that money towards a demographic that reliably votes for the party that appoints and retains those very same insurance board members. It's entirely about giving out candy to reliable Democrat voters.

You lecturing me about selfishness is hilarious. I know, I know, why should I want to be able to afford to go to the doctor, right? So selfish of me. I used to be able to, but now I'm a thousand dollars a month poorer, and looking at an even bigger financial hole before any sort of insurance even kicks in. So: I used to have enough cash for routine medical care, and a comfortable deductible in case of that ambulance ride and orthopedist visit. Now that cash is being used by someone else, and the hit for visiting the orthopedist for that broken bone is at least ten grand more out of pocket than it used to be. This, so that you can feel holier than thou about having socked it to me, so you can feel generous to someone else.

You LIKE the new arrangement, because YOU are the one that actually lacks empathy. You're delighted that people who used to be able to pay for medical services no longer can, and must consider how to alter their financial, business, employment and tax landscapes to somehow work an angle where they, too, can be more dependent on the government and beg for money that someone ELSE is paying. All so you can scold and enjoy your moment of condescension and nanny state patronizing.

You're the selfish one - you'd rather tear down someone else's ability to choose whether or not they need insurance for maternity so that you can take the resulting wasted expense and use it as a political treat for the Nancy Pelosi types of the world to wisely distribute. Minus a cut, of course, for their huge new bureaucracy, populated by employees in federal unions that are forced to pay dues that end up being used to provide campaign cash for people like Pelosi. I get it. At least be honest about it.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

The wealthiest 1% pay 40% of all income taxes even though they make just 20% of all income.

Do you work in marketing? Really go back over what you said here even dealing in percentage values your math doesn't add up. 1 pays 40 which equals 20.
Actually every thing I have read says the top 1% make up more of the income than what the other 99% get combined. That's got to be more than 20%. The rich DO NOT pay more than their fair share. Sure the starting percentage value may be higher but after tax breaks which on the rich get they pay far far less. Remember the rich never use the short form.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd rather have my tax dollars go to help someone who doesn't deserve it, than to bomb someone who doesn't deserve it.

Re: Lesson 1

[mishehu]

No, I said this was a small step in the right direction. I acknowledge the benefit afforded to both me and my late mom as well as the shortcomings (namely the rates and the deductibles - at this point I'd be better under the socialized Israeli health system as I'd pay the same amount or less, but wouldn't have to worry about that huge extra deductible to meet every year nor would I have to worry about a minor procedure costing $50,000 or more). My rates have gone up 187% over the course of 2 years time. Don't conflate my comments here as walking around with rosy glasses. I never said this was an ideal situation. But still, fuck you very much. Maybe you should stand at an arbitrary spot on your road and shoot anybody with an out-of-state plate that drives by. That person didn't pay for the road and feels entitled to it and are therefore stealing from you. You work up every month thousands of dollars poorer as a result of having paid for that road to be built.

Also, I'd like to add that complex political ideologies and policies cannot be distilled down to a binary system. Your attempt to cast this as an "us versus them" scenario is very pathetic. All you are is a walking list of talking points and complaints about how you have to pay a bit extra so that your fellow human being can receive proper medical care.

Re: Lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

You guys need health care like Canada. My premium is under $70 a month and set to be cut by 50% next year.

I come from a family of 9 kids. When we were kids, my 4 year old sister got leukemia. It took over a year of hospital stay and my dad was out of work that whole time.
I don't know what my parents had to pay, but they've never had to mention it. Haven't gone bankrupt and my sister made it through.

A few years ago, a guy with cancer on the radio said his out of pocket was around $25k, for about 1.5 years of treatment.

So what the fuck are you getting for $13k?

Re: Lesson 1

[ScentCone]

You still don't get it. Want to use the road analogy? OK, that other person gets to use the road without paying for it, but I know have to pay four times as much in road taxes, but no longer get to use the road. How are you not clear on this?

Re: Lesson 1

[LynnwoodRooster]

History shows that economic mobility is key to long-term success. Median income is $50K per household, but that means half are above it. Having the ability to move up - and the risk of moving down - is what drives things the best. What you're arguing is that income/wealth should be capped. And that is simply never good...

Re: Lesson 1

[LynnwoodRooster]

Look at the data presented. The top 1% make 20% of all income, and they pay 40% of all income taxes. In other words, the richer you become, the higher your tax load in percentage AND raw dollars.

Re: Lesson 1

[mishehu]

Because you're not being deprived of anything other than some finances. Which by the way, even if you are insufferably selfish, thank you for making it so that *I* can get coverage for my condition and thank you for helping to see that my mom was as comfortable as possible on her last days. I know you didn't give from the kindness of your heart, and I know if you could, in a heartbeat you'd stop paying and thus end up making it so that I would not be able to afford my treatment, but thank you nonetheless.

Which brings me to my next point: People with chronic conditions on the old system rarely could get affordable coverage to them. Chronic conditions very often times affect a person's ability to work and to function in society. Less work due to no medical coverage means less taxes collected from that person, means less beneficial for society as well. And if that person has something debilitating enough when not treated that they cannot hold down a job, guess who ends up paying for them to receive starvation rations? You, once again. So while I understand it's a bitter pill for you to swallow, think of it this way: you'll end up paying that money one way or another. And I assure you that my condition has absolutely nothing to do with any wrong choice I made in my life - I've had it since childhood. And as it is degenerative, I could one day become more or less immobilized.

As crappy as the ACA is, you'll be paying less over the long term. It's going to smart in the short term, and sure has taken a bite out of my own ass too. But I can see the forest for all the trees. Cheers.

Re: Lesson 1

[mishehu]

Negative, ghostrider. I'm arguing for the law of diminishing returns basically. Sure, you can keep earning more money, but on each increment larger you'll also pay a larger portion of that money in taxes. There's a finite amount of things that you can own, so I don't see why, if implemented correctly, that it would be a net negative.

Re: Lesson 1

[ScentCone]

Because you're not being deprived of anything other than some finances.

Oh that's all, just some finances. Means nothing, I know. Except then you point out that finances are exactly what you want, for you and your family, where they DO matter, and you're happy to take them away from someone else so that OTHER family can't afford the services of a doctor. Are you even listening to yourself? YOU are the selfish one! "I want money to make my family comfortable, and it makes me happy that that money was taken from you, so that your family is no longer able to have that comfort." So, I don't deserve the comfort, but I should be obliged to buy that comfort for you.

As crappy as the ACA is, you'll be paying less over the long term.

How much less? President Obama looked you in the eye and said that the average family's insurance costs would go DOWN by about $2500 a year. And that monthly premiums would be about the same as a mobile phone bill. Remember that? And how I'd be able to keep my insurance and doctor, "period." By contrast, I lost my insurance, lost the services of the doctor we'd be using for 20 years, can no longer use the two good local hospitals, and have had our costs go up by over 400% - to the point where we can no longer spare the cash for simple visits to the doctor's office. But that's all going to have me paying less over time, you say. You mean that my rates will go below what they used to be? My deductible will return to what it was, or less? What sort of nonsense are you preaching? You sound exactly like Obama, who we know was deliberately, repeatedly lying about costs going down - something his own consultants have proudly confirmed as their deliberate strategy to get the 100% partisan law through.

Oh, I get it - you're saying that my TAXES will go down in some way that more than offsets the 400% increase in rates and the sky-high deductible. How do you figure? 47% percent of the population pays no income taxes - so any discretionary spending taken from that bucket will only go UP. And it's politically impossible to raise medicate taxes higher than they already are. So... specifically explain how my annual health care costs will go down to a small fraction of what they are now, to back up your assertion. Who is going to suddenly start paying way, WAY more than they're paying already so that my outlay will be so dramatically reduced? The eeeeevil 1%-ers?

Re: Lesson 1

[mishehu]

Dragon, take ye treasure and hideaway in a cave. I am done here, you can put a fork in me and serve me. It doesn't even matter whether or not Obama said premiums would be like the cost of a phone bill - the POTUS has exactly 0 say in any of that, and if you believed that, you probably also believed Jason Chaffetz when he basically said all you have to do to afford your premiums is not buy that new iPhone. I shan't discuss this any further with you, you can't even accept a "thank you" for the lives you touched when offered and leave it at that. Find somebody else to troll.

Re: Lesson 1

[ScentCone]

That was no "thank you," that was a disingenuous bit of smarm going through the motions of justifying why you think your family should get my family's hard-earned money, so that you can get healthcare that my family no longer can. It was utterly insincere, and you know it. Now, your fake bit of umbrage-taking and leaving in a huff is just a craven excuse for avoiding any effort to back up your claim that the ACA will cost my family less in the long term. Why skip out on explaining your assertion? Because you know it's completely baseless. A lie. I mentioned Obama's very similar lie as a bit of context. It doesn't matter whether or not the POTUS can cause somebody's premium to be some specific amount - the point is that he and the other leaders of his party deliberately, repeatedly lied about the ramifications of this disastrous law. He chose to lie in order to help sell it to the public, so they'd put pressure on their Democrat representatives into voting for what everyone knew was a lie.

Don't thank me for anything, because you don't mean it. But you could take the trouble to back up your platitudes about how I should like our new circumstance, what with it costing our famliy less over time (despite it costing our family far, far more with no end in sight). Hand-wavy assertions that you know to be false, meant to distract from the reality of the situation, aren't how you exhibit gratitude. Your lecturing me about how I deserve the current situation so that you can have stuff - there isn't a whiff of real thanks underpinning anything you've said. Don't add insult to the injury.

Re: Lesson 1

[LynnwoodRooster]

What we have right now is exactly what you're arguing for, then. As you move up in income, you pay progressively higher taxes (in absolute dollar and by percent of income). Are you saying it needs to be more progressive?

Re: Lesson 1

[mishehu]

I am familiar with the progressive nature of our taxation system. It needs to be adjusted yes. We also need to really cut back hard on the tax breaks for the wealthy. The only way that trickle-down works is that you get some drops of the rich guy's pee on your head - he [the wealthy guy] doesn't really create jobs like they still try to claim after all these years.

Re: Lesson 1

[LynnwoodRooster]

So to summarize: we're progressive in taxation, but you believe it needs to be much more progressive. Correct? How much more progressive? And how many non-wealthy people have you worked for?

Several languages!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait until they find out that there are (gasp!) several languages. And that the corresponding tribes are at war with each other!

(Just yesterday I was nearly thrown over the bridge by a C# programmer)

Re:Several languages!

[Anonymous Coward]

(Just yesterday I was nearly thrown over the bridge by a C# programmer)

Let me guess, hetried to throw you, but you were caught?

It wouldn't have worked anyway. You can't be thrown over (nor under) the bridge because C# has bound checking.

Re: Several languages!

[Entrope]

Northern C# Great Lakes Region Council of 2017 or Northern C# Great Lakes Region Council of C# 4.0?

("Die, heretic!")

Re:Several languages!

[queBurro]

finally, a joke I can get behind

Re:Several languages!

[Oswald McWeany]

(Just yesterday I was nearly thrown over the bridge by a C# programmer)

Let me guess, hetried to throw you, but you were caught?

I take exception to that.

Re: Several languages!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty slow but I CATCH that one!

Re:Several languages!

[Anonymous Coward]

(OP here) ROFL. You made my day :)

Re:Several languages!

[Anonymous Coward]

Bounds checking can be turned off.

unchecked { }

Re:Several languages!

[MatthewCCNA]

(Just yesterday I was nearly thrown over the bridge by a C# programmer)

Let me guess, hetried to throw you, but you were caught?

I take exception to that.

At least it wasn't fatal

Re:Several languages!

[Anonymous Coward]

C# jokes. Stay classy!

Re:Several languages!

[roman_mir]

The concern you are raising is null and void.

Re:Several languages!

[jamiesan]

Finally, someone gets it!

Re:Several languages!

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't get me started about the Cpound guys. With their Kludge managed code and VM shell around win32. They're isolated so far from the hardware that it's amazing anything runs. Only worse is Java where nothing runs.

Re:Several languages!

[balbeir]

(Just yesterday I was nearly thrown over the bridge by a C# programmer)

Let me guess, hetried to throw you, but you were caught?

I take exception to that.

At least it wasn't fatal

No that's because he finally let him return

Re:Several languages!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait until she's replaced by an H1-B worker, whom she has to train first.

Awesome

[laurent420]

More the merrier!

FP?

[Anonymous Coward]

FP!!

Re: FP?

[Anonymous Coward]

Functional programming?

They really don't understand.

[meerling]

"We're excited to learn this incredibly important new language together. Coding truly is the language of the future."
Coding is a language like driving is a car, or carpentry is a wood.
Idiots

Re:They really don't understand.

[UncleRage]

I get the underlying disgust, man.

I work in public education with adults (very well paid, upper tier district administrators) that say this kind of shit. I'm also fed up with the whole "hour of code" based lego blocking of tiles on a screen once a year and saying it means something (yes, it'd be a great on ramp if STEM began in K-2 and the student was using a touch screen interface... but we'd still have to discuss why STEM should start with programming vs. a solid foundation in traditional math, science and literacy).

And to have the whole summary neck deep in the first lady and some model that dates her brother-in-law...? Wha?!?

So, yeah. I get it. But the thing to remember is that a 5 year old is the one that made the comment about coding being a "language". 5 year old's get a pass, because they're wee ones, not idiots. They often turn into idiots, unfortunately -- but at 5, they're not.

Except Billy. That kid is as dumb as box of rocks.

Re: They really don't understand.

[Anonymous Coward]

5 year olds don't talk like that, she is certainly a prop parrot. Poor girl.

Re:They really don't understand.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well she is only 5.

Re:They really don't understand.

[Kokuyo]

Y'all are being semantic. Obviously this course will focus on one language for beginners. Therefore they are learning THAT language. As in one. Nowhere in those words does she express the belief that it's the ONE language in existence they will be learning...

Re: They really don't understand.

[ewanm89]

A programming language is a language, it has its own syntax, grammar and vocabulary, though linguistic studies into such languages are rare (there are a couple of linguists studying the field though).

Yes I would agree basic foundation is very important, so why the fuck are we not teaching decision and discrete mathematics. It is the relevant mathematics field to study but is an optional in most curriculums pre university and so not taught by most schools.

Re:They really don't understand.

[AmiMoJo]

The foundation has to come after the initial exposure. That's how I leaned, and if you try to start with the dry stuff the kids get bored and lose interest. They have to understand where that knowledge will take them, what they can do with it.

That's why we encourage kids to read. Not just for practice, but to make them interested in reading. Start with fun books before getting into grammar and the history of literature.

Re:They really don't understand.

[mwvdlee]

but we'd still have to discuss why STEM should start with programming vs. a solid foundation in traditional math, science and literacy.

Because programming can act as a gateway drug.
The path to learning is what is imporant; the goal is what puts them on that path.

Re: They really don't understand.

[Anonymous Coward]

And honestly who cares if she did think that. How the hell else is a person to get educated on such things than to learn it, and one way to learn it is a coding class. Can't we just be glad that people are getting started and criticize them later if they claim to be proficient and still say silly shit?

Re: They really don't understand.

[denzacar]

Because "math" translates as "hard", "discrete mathematics" translates as "incomprehensible" (i.e. super-hard) and "coding" translates as "being smart" and "making money with magic and chat apps/games".

Don't you watch the internets?
You want your kids to grow up to be Steve Jobses and Mark Zuckerbergses (i.e. rich) - not some math teacher teaching idiots how to add or whatever it is they do with math.

Re: They really don't understand.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it will be too much to ask when you cannot find enough adults who know how to practice that. Programming/Coding is easy, and it always is, English is more complicated and expressive than most, if not all, programming languages.

Re:They really don't understand.

[Erioll]

Agreed. She makes the comments BEFORE the course. If you say stupid shit afterwards, then that's something else. But blaming somebody for not knowing, while TRYING to learn is just not helpful.

Re:They really don't understand.

[FatAlb3rt]

Just can't make some people happy. You'd think that on this site, you'd be able to throw the partisan garbage or whatever disdain it is that we have for the first family aside, and see this as a positive thing. Instead we're spending time on being critical of a self-professed newcomer not using the right terminology simply because she doesn't fully grasp what she's getting into.

Re:They really don't understand.

[meta-monkey]

It gets worse! I like the Trumps, but think the "coding is the language of the future" stuff is retarded. And there is zero chance a Trump is ever going to be a code monkey, anyway.

Re:They really don't understand.

[SecurityGuy]

It absolutely takes more than one "coding" class for people to stop saying stupid shit. Plenty of well paid developers say stupid shit on a regular basis.

I'm actually gradually changing my opinion on things like this. People who think they're going to "learn to code" in an hour or a course, or people who think they're going to teach someone to code in a similar time are delusional. That's no more realistic than saying someone's going to "learn science" in an hour or a course. What they're going to do is get some exposure. They might inspire a few to learn more. Maybe 1 in 100+ will go on to a productive career in software development who otherwise wouldn't.

If THAT'S the goal, then great. For anyone who thinks you're going to teach the general population to code, hahahahahaha no.

Re:They really don't understand.

[Erioll]

Fair enough. I'd put this very similarly to somebody taking a course on how to paint a simple scene, or a weekend carpentry thing. Just enough to show you some basics, get a feeling for things, and probably appreciate a whole lot more those who are actual professionals at it. The adult will almost-certainly not take it up, but for a kid it may be a gateway for more later in their life.

Either way, I think that things like that are good gateways into appreciating others' work. They're not an instant "I know how how to (whatever)!" but just broaden what you know ABOUT rather than something you can do full-steam.

Re:They really don't understand.

[Nemyst]

Ah, but math doesn't have to be dry. It's just how it's currently being presented. I can make programming super extra dry too, I'd just have to ask one of my numerous university professors.

Re:They really don't understand.

[Anonymous Coward]

"We're excited to learn this incredibly important new language together. Coding truly is the language of the future."
Coding is a language like driving is a car, or carpentry is a wood.
Idiots

Nope, an idiot is someone who assumes everyone knows what they know and cares about syntax outside of context (or even at all when not required.) She wanted a soundbite "Coding truly is the language of the future." and moreover, she's not a programmer so the distinction between a tool and a thing isn't clear (non-programmers don't tend to think in extreme abstraction.) Hell man, one of the basic tests for AI is whether it can put itself in another person's shoes when drawing conclusions and you wouldn't even pass because your brain is so inundated with politically-driven hatred.

Re:They really don't understand.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not about being a code monkey. Huge segments of nearly every if not every industry are controlled entirely by programmers. Yes, they have design requirements, but it isn't that hard to stick in a backdoor, undermine business logic, or otherwise do something entirely undetectable to the people commissioning the work who traditionally have held all the power. In that respect programming is in fact a language which must be readable to understand what you're getting (even if they have enough money not to have to care about costs and how much time/resources something really takes.) When the bulk of the tech industry are liberal extremists who hate their family and they need to stay on top of tech to maintain their wealth being able to understand if someone is working for/with or against their interests is critical. Having a family member with a very much vested interest able to comprehend that aspect of things is important.

Re: They really don't understand.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know why she bothers. Blithering idiots like you will hate her no matter what she does.

Re:They really don't understand.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ivanka isn't 5 last I checked... and the summary attributes the quote to the first daughter ie Ivanka

Re: They really don't understand.

[choovanski]

How DARE you?! I want my kid to grow up to be Steve Wozniak.

Re:They really don't understand.

[rnturn]

The worst of it will be that, once she completes the course and can write "Hello, World!" twenty times using BASIC, she'll probably be named as the White House Cyber Czar.

Re: They really don't understand.

[Anonymous Coward]

She bothers because nobody really cares about the level of rage of fools like the gp commenter. Except the Secret Service in a few select instances.

Re:They really don't understand.

[thebullshitpatrol]

Ok, well let me know if you think Ivanka comes out of it thinking she knows Python, or thinking she knows programming, the language.

Re:They really don't understand.

[Anonymous Coward]

So a kid should be able to intelligently discuss concepts like algorithms and calculus before they touch a keyboard? I'm not sure what you're getting at here. And what about this introduction to coding makes it so that the discussion you mention can't take place?

Re:They really don't understand.

[SecurityGuy]

Either way, I think that things like that are good gateways into appreciating others' work.

True, that. I just personally think if we're going to spin people up about something, coding is really not the thing we should bother with. Financial or scientific literacy would be a good place to start. Basic infosec would be nice (and a lot of people who do it are not coders). Just yesterday I had a dentist's office ask for a SSN. The fact that they did that tells me they aren't getting overwhelming numbers of people saying "WTF? No!"

We need a lot more of that, and we need it a lot more than we need someone else who can write buggy toy programs.

Re:They really don't understand.

[budgenator]

It's hard to take the article seriously when they say something like,

STEM is an academic enrichment program that encourages girls — and other minorities — to pursue careers in the fields of engineering, computer science, science, business management, entrepreneurs, and mathematics.

Re:They really don't understand.

[chihowa]

Exactly! If you want to reliably cultivate a lasting interest in a topic, the first exposure should be positive. Not starting with the foundations also allows the truly disinterested student to opt-out without leaving a lifelong bad impression ("math is hard!").

I'd even make the case that the best way to teach the foundations is through a series of interesting and fun applied scenarios. For example: straight calculus classes are boring (even to mathy-types like me), but a student in a physics class can learn a remarkable amount of calculus in the process of solving fun physics problems. Following this, more advanced math classes that build on that foundation become much easier and much less boring.

Using your grammar example, learning grammar and literature history by actually reading literature leaves a much more solid understanding than memorizing tomes of grammar rules.

Re: They really don't understand.

[budgenator]

Because "math" translates as "hard", "discrete mathematics" translates as "incomprehensible" (i.e. super-hard) and "coding" translates as "being smart" and "making money with magic and chat apps/games".

Are you kidding, soon half the coders in silicon valley working 100 hour weeks are going to be making less per hour than a burger flipper now that minimum wage is going to $15.00/hr!

Re:They really don't understand.

[StayFrosty]

Actually, I'm of the opinion that basic programming can be taught along side of basic traditional math, science, and literacy. What makes the S(cience) and the M(ath) in STEM more important than the Technology and Engineering components? It's true that science relies heavily on math, and engineering on science, but only at more advanced levels. Coding at a 5-year-old level isn't going to be requiring any more math than a science class for 5-year-olds. Even in middle school, there is a lot of programming that can easily be taught without advanced math. You don't need to learn about functions in algebra before learning about them in programming. I've never understood this attitude. Having a handle on logic is much more important. Similarly, learning about simple machines and basic other engineering doesn't require any math right away.

Re:They really don't understand.

[HeckRuler]

No, they don't understand. But that's just ignorance, not idiocy.

There's nothing wrong with ignorance. It's the default state and we all start there. And these sort of classes are great for curing this sort of ignorance. The comment is from someone BEFORE taking the introductory class. If they make such a comment AFTER taking the class, then they're an idiot.

Now... coming from the First Lady... That's damn embarrassing. Don't they have anyone on their team that isn't completely ignorant? And doing this sort of promotional gig and letting slip that level of ignorance is pretty idiotic.

Re: They really don't understand.

[Anonymous Coward]

Cyber is hard. Cyber is definitely hard.

Re: They really don't understand.

[denzacar]

That's cause they are losers and not winners. Just like their parents who've failed to train them properly to be winners.
Sad.

Watch the internets more. People make THOUSANDS just sitting home and clicking links.
Internets told me so.

Re: They really don't understand.

[denzacar]

Never heard of him. Did he also get rich and famous quick with magic and computers?
Well... OK... clearly he's not famous... Not like Jobs or Zuckerberg.

Re: They really don't understand.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're working 100 hour weeks, that's your own damn fault. Obviously, garbage worker. If you deny that, you're garbage.

Re: They really don't understand.

[Anonymous Coward]

No. I highly respect my college math instructor, he's a fucking genius, but when you start your math problems like, "so, you're at the beach, and you want to know the area of the lake for fun".

No. No one (normal) goes to the beach to calculate the area of the water for fun.

Maturity is key.

[geekmux]

""We're excited to learn this incredibly important new language together. Coding truly is the language of the future."

Training that will last a proverbial 15 minutes should stick like water on a duck in the mind of a 5-year old. I understand trying to excite people at a young age, but this is also the reason I laugh at "black belts" in the martial arts who still need Mommy's help making cereal in the morning. Maturity both mentally and physically is key when it comes to certain education and training.

And since Ivanka is so excited to learn this language, they'll be a test later to see if your enthusiasm was genuine, or if this was nothing more than a PR stunt at taxpayers expense.

Re:Maturity is key.

[Ceriel Nosforit]

Never underestimate 5-year olds.

Re:Maturity is key.

[AuntieAlias]

Who are you with, the STASI? What a real Freedom and privacy loving Conservative you must be. Joe McCarthy's rotting corpse must be crawling out of his grave, on the way to shake your hand, you true Amerikan, you.

Re:Maturity is key.

[Baron_Yam]

> I laugh at "black belts" in the martial arts who still need Mommy's help making cereal in the morning

Everyone knows there's a difference between a child's black belt and an adult's. Much like with this computer camp, it's not expected to get the same results as you'd want for an adult.

It's about exposing them to the concept, making them comfortable and familiar with it to improve the odds they're interested in the real thing later on.

Re:Maturity is key.

[geekmux]

> I laugh at "black belts" in the martial arts who still need Mommy's help making cereal in the morning

Everyone knows there's a difference between a child's black belt and an adult's. Much like with this computer camp, it's not expected to get the same results as you'd want for an adult.

Awarding a black belt to a child changes the prestige and respect that used to be acknowledged with someone holding a black belt in the martial arts. You want to keep a child interested and motivated in the martial arts? Fine. Tell them that a black belt will be awarded when they can demonstrate the maturity, discipline, power, and control that such a prestigious award demands, demonstrated by an adult body and mind. Let that be a real goal to achieve. A black belt is something to be feared and respected. A black belt held by a five-year old is a joke.

If you were to put a parallel with coding, Ivankas daughter will be a "certified" coder armed with a resume by the time she's seven. Is there a point to that? No not really, other than continuing to raise yet another generation of special snowflakes who get a gold star for breathing; you know, 'cause that shit worked out so well for the current entitled generation of narcissists.

Re:Maturity is key.

[Baron_Yam]

Yeah, OK. You might want to take a breath an relax, because you're getting really upset about nothing.

Re:Maturity is key.

[WrongMonkey]

You are vastly overestimating the prestige and respect of adult black belts. To most adults, martial arts is just another geek hobby. Like SCA or Magic the Gathering.

Re:Maturity is key.

[angel'o'sphere]

It is also to remembered, the first black belt is a beginners rank. Or as in a car analogy: 1st black belt is a driving license, 3rd black belt is a driving teacher, 4th black belt is a driving examiner, and the higher ranked black belts are those that grant teaching licenses and examination licenses (and define how the teaching and the examinations have to be conducted).

Re:Maturity is key.

[judoguy]

> I laugh at "black belts" in the martial arts who still need Mommy's help making cereal in the morning

Everyone knows there's a difference between a child's black belt and an adult's.

Only in bullshit belt mills. No respectable dojo does that.

And I know of what I speak.

Re:Maturity is key.

[Baron_Yam]

It was explained to me back in the day by a TKD Grand Master like this: The black belt means you have learned enough to start learning and even then it only means you reached that level at some point, not that you maintained it.

I get the feeling a lot of teachers are disappointed by those who get their black belt then stop, like they got the job done and it'll be that way forever. Sometimes you see those guys coming back a decade later to get back in shape, but not often.

I do like the car analogy, though. I'm going to remember that.

Re:Maturity is key.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry. She could hold one press conference and bring in as much value for a company as a programmer does his entire year. It may not be functional, but it is massive.

Re:Maturity is key.

[Anonymous Coward]

A black belt held by an adult can be a joke too if they can't fight reasonably well. No one hears the term "black belt" and thinks "oh, this person must be very mature"...they think "oh, this person can fight really well". If they can't, then it's dumb. That alone should disqualify any child from getting a black belt.

Re:Maturity is key.

[angel'o'sphere]

Sometimes I use school/university example, but that works better in german.
1st black belt: end of college(or high school)
2nd black belt: bachelor or more likely master
3rd black belt PhD
4th black belt professor at an university

The higher ranks are those that organize universities, think about new areas of studies, define what a PhD is and how to become a professor etc.

However the car analogy emphasizes much better that the first black belt is nothing special. I expect everyone coming into my Dojo to sooner or later reach that level.

The university example sounds more fancy as the entry black belt already has spent 10 - 12 years in school, which might imply to some people that it is a great achievement.

You are right, I unfortunately know quite a few who either stopped after achieving the first black belt or stopped having goals for more progress.

On the other hand I don't care, it is their life, not mine.

Re:Maturity is key.

[Cro Magnon]

I don't see why this is a big deal. I have a black belt.

It helps hold my pants up.

Re:Maturity is key.

[Anonymous Coward]

My father bought me a computer for my 5th birthday (early 80's). If you wanted to do anything on it, you either had to load a program off disk or write your own, so I started to learn how to code. Yes it was BASIC and the programs I wrote were basic, and while I'm not a professional developer, I still code as a hobby and occasionally to improve my work flow at my job. Had I not been introduced to it that early, I may not have taken the interest. I feel in our current society, everyone should at least be familiar with how to write code, they don't need to go on to do it as a profession, but it's better to have an understanding of how all the magic boxes work, then just to assume it's magic.

Even my elementary school introduced students to coding during first grade (age 6, upstate NY).

Re:Maturity is key.

[Areyoukiddingme]

"We're excited to learn this incredibly important new language together. Coding truly is the language of the future."

Training that will last a proverbial 15 minutes should stick like water on a duck in the mind of a 5-year old.

Remember for a moment that this is the same 5 year old who can sing the New Year good wishes song in Mandarin. By all accounts, she has a solid 5-year-old's grasp of the language, even though she's American and has American parents who are not of Chinese descent. This particular 5 year old may surprise you. I expect that by the time Donald Trump leaves office, his granddaughter will have a larger vocabulary than he does, in two different languages.

She just might know how to write a little bit of Python, too.

Re:Maturity is key.

[Anonymous Coward]

I wrote my first bit of code on a TI99/4A at the tender age of 3. My older brothers taught me and I ate it up. They showed me how to use loops to change pixels on the screen different colors. My first program displayed my name. According to them it was my idea of what to display and I hand copied their code and modified it.

Never ever underestimate a child who actually has an interest in something. Even if they don't really understand the interest. If it excites them they'll take to it, and their brains are uniquely suited for learning and retention. Of course, it has to be taught VERY differently than how we typically think of teaching programming.

Excel

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing wrong with learning coding. Heck, even my mum approaching 60 did take Basic-classes once in the day, besides lots of other courses on various IT-software packages etc. So coding classes is nothing new, it's rather old-fashioned even!

What's new is the availability of platforms like Minecraft, Brainstorms, Scratch being so available and low barrier to entry. However, those who are truly interested, may be turned off by the simplicity of such platforms, and the masses may not get into the depths required to become a true programmer.

This is also all well and done, so what we're left with is Excel. Everyone can use it to some extent, can extend it with some VBA or macros and config some cells to do some magic stuff, some even use Pivot Tables. It's useful, but still lacking the proper insights that is required to develop software and to support teams of devs and testers.

So nothing new under the sun, but maybe, like Excel, a bit more useful than before.

Wow

[FyRE666]

More self-publicity by the Whitehouse version of "Life with the Kardashians"

Re:Wow

[thegarbz]

by the Whitehouse version of "Life with the Kardashians"

That is being waaaay to kind to the people currently in the Whitehouse.

Re:Wow

[bill_mcgonigle]

More self-publicity by the Whitehouse version of "Life with the Kardashians"

Perhaps you missed "making school lunches into vehicles to throw vegetables into the trash", "gee, maybe kids should read", "gee, maybe we should have government-run medicine and cover up political accidents", or "the solution to drug addiction isn't engaging people who are victims of childhood abuse, but rather the word 'no'."

The less-damaging ones actually seem to be the ones without any kind of lofty goals.

Re: Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Hay, don't make fun of Magilla Gorilla.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean like when Obama participated in the "hour of code" and was on a talk show talking about how many lines of code he'd written?

And besides, if this is the current Whitehouse version of "Life with the Kardashians" I'll take it. A mother spending time with her young child, taking a class with her to help build family bonds and getting an introduction to a skill incredibly important to the world and simultaneously learning a sliver of how people think who operate in a world very different than their own. The horror!

Re:Wow

[FyRE666]

Hang on Mr Coward, which one of Trump's baby-mommas are you talking about? And yes, what's going on right now in the Whitehouse is a horror show. It's an orange man-baby throwing tantrums and doing everything he can to fuck over the rubes he conned into voting for him, and what's worse is that some of the people around him are actually taking him seriously. I can't imagine anything more crooked - he's openly gloating about destroying the environment, destroying public education, taking bribes, blatant nepotism, filling his cabinet with people who are donors, including most who have no idea how to run their departments (or worse, are actively hostile toward them). There's also now a mountain of evidence he worked with Russia during the election (although with Nunes on the payroll, I'm sure a bit of money will make that "go away").

The only good thing about Trump is that he's old and he'll be dead soon. If you voted for him, you helped sell out America.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

My post said nothing about "the orange man-baby" and was about his daughter and grand daughter. You're frothing at the mouth and so angry you can't think clearly. Calm down, try to be reasonable. You're embarrassing yourself. My statement is about Ivanka and what she's doing with her child. Reread it, you'll see I made no claims about the president. Whatever your problems are with him, this has nothing to do with it. If you have to turn everything into Donald Trump, then might I recommend you seek therapy, because this is an unhealthy obsession, and you should probably seek help.

And also, no, I did not vote for him. I was unhappy with either of the major candidates so I voted for a third party in protest to help them realize that if they didn't do better, they'd risk losing power to other groups. I'm just not blinded by rage like apparently a large number of people like you are, and I try to think clearly and rationally.

Re:Wow

[XxtraLarGe]

More self-publicity by the Whitehouse version of "Life with the Kardashians"

You know, there are a lot of legitimate reasons to criticize Trump & his family, but this is not one of them. This should be seen as a positive thing. A lot of people are talking about getting more women in STEM, and Ivanka is actually doing something to help promote it. We should be encouraging this type of thing. Would you have felt the same way if this had been Michelle Obama & one of her daughters? I know I would, and I didn't really like Obama either.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

*too. Learn some 3rd grade English there, skippy.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Meanwhile, her father is trying to slash the federal funding of scientific research by 20%. Ivanka Trump is propagandist who puts a pretty face on horrible policies. So maybe instead of photo op which will ruin the experience for every other kid in that class, she could try convincing her father to not wreck thousands of scientists' careers.

Re:Wow

[Wulf2k]

Not that I'm particularly fond of the Trump family, but as a non-American, I have to ask....

Isn't the "job" of the First Family to be mindless publicity whores?

Mrs. Obama told kids what to eat for lunch. That seems on par with Ms. Trump taking a programming course.

You have the president as a family member, try to spend the next 4-8 years without a visible drug problem and maybe do something that some preschoolers can copy once in a while.

She'll learn how to wipe her illegal email server!

[Anonymous Coward]

She's going to learn how to wipe her illegal email server - that's not sitting on the internet nor holding any classified material.

She won't need to use a cloth.

I didn't know

[Anonymous Coward]

That they offered scratch classes

Were she a Dem, she'd be a progtard hero

[Anonymous Coward]

If Ivanka Trump were a Democrat, she'd be a progtard hero.

Re:Were she a Dem, she'd be a progtard hero

[Anonymous Coward]

Being what you are, you just a... fucktard. Heck, I'd guess Ivanka is quite a bit smarter than you are. Suck it up.

Re:Were she a Dem, she'd be a progtard hero

[Anonymous Coward]

She probably is a Dem. But daddy wasn't going to unseat Hilary so he ran as a Nazi instead. We call them RINOs – Republican In Name Only.

Re:Were she a Dem, she'd be a progtard hero

[Anonymous Coward]

She is a Lib. Both her brothers are Conservative, and have genuine cred, as evidenced from their public comments & interviews. But she's the one who talked her father out of bashing Planned Parenthood some, before other Conservatives convinced him that the group is radioactive

Re:Were she a Dem, she'd be a progtard hero

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh look, another fat gamergater. Ethics in gaming journalism bro.

What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Opportunist]

A mix of Spin City, West Wing and Keeping up with the Kardashians.

Quite seriously, a publicity stunt is a publicity stunt, but this is not even pitiful.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Baron_Yam]

This is the GOOD kind of publicity stunt, it's promoting education. It's like promoting healthy diet or exercise... it's kind of the thing you want coming from your leaders (or their subordinates, lackeys, and hangers-on) unless your society has no such issues to address.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the GOOD kind of publicity stunt, it's promoting education. It's like promoting healthy diet or exercise...

If you promote a healthy diet by sticking broccoli in your ears and exercise by standing next to a running treadmill. Even a publicity stunt requires a bit of a clue.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean like Michelle Obama having a garden in the back yard, to promote healthy eating and importance of exercise?

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Baron_Yam]

Is there something wrong with exposing children to the concept of coding?

I know I was coding by the time I was 9, and that eventually turned into a decent career for me.

I don't expect the kid to be a developer after this 'camp', and obviously the mom's just going as support for her child... but I still don't see how this is a bad thing, or a bad example to set.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Holi]

Last time someone promoted a healthy diet and exercise in the White House a sizable portion of the population went mad with rage.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Opportunist]

Unfortunately, it isn't. Everyone who knows at least a hint about programming cringes at the display of ignorance. Everyone who doesn't know jack about programming sees yet another celebrity dragging her kid into something they don't give a shit about.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Opportunist]

I don't know if I want my kid to be part of a camp where she takes away the important lesson "that code is the language of the future".

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Opportunist]

Fortunately I didn't notice that. Then again, I don't know the first thing about eating healthy, working out or working in the big blue room with that hot, yellow light on top and no air condition to boot, so I can't really comment on how sensible her efforts were.

I can comment on this one, though. And it is prime cringe material.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Baron_Yam]

Huh. Weird, because I'm a developer and a father. And while my kids are older now, I sent them off to robotics camp when they were younger (Lego Mindstorms and a graphical programming interface).

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean the gardener having a garden in the backyard?

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[argStyopa]

Shh. The narrative is that Trump and any of his progeny are irredeemably evil.

Don't confuse the narrative. The sheep won't know who to believe.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[XxtraLarGe]

Last time someone promoted a healthy diet and exercise in the White House a sizable portion of the population went mad with rage.

There's a difference between promoting a healthy diet and exercise and imposing a healthy diet and exercise. That's what "a sizable portion of the population went mad with rage" about.

Re: What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a programmer and didn't find this cringy at all. I mean are you serious? You cringe about self admitted neophytes using incorrect terminology?

Jesus. Maybe there is a problem in stem fields being hostile to underrepresented groups. It's assholes like you who "cringe" at every display of inexperience. I wonder how widespread your mentality is.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Baron_Yam]

>There's a difference between promoting a healthy diet and exercise and imposing a healthy diet and exercise.

Well, based on the obesity and heart disease rates I don't think 'imposing' was either A) what happened or B) a bad idea.

But then again, I'm Canadian and here health care is nearly universal and tax-funded... so there's a financial incentive to promote good health in the general population.

Outside of that I'm fine with an adult making adult choices even if they're bad ones, but I see far too many fat children. That is NOT acceptable; if your children are fat (and not suffering from a mobility-inhibiting condition) before they're old enough to move out, you've failed as a parent.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[aicrules]

only a problem because they hate everything Trump without exception. They are so blinded by their hate they would hate him if he did literally everything obama did. because they are intellectual fakes with no real substance to them and so they resort to name calling.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[aicrules]

There is no difference to the communist dictatorship of the handholding left. If you let people CHOOSE to eat bad, act bad, or do whatever it is you don't think they should do, then you are as bad as they are. Don't you know? People are too dumb to think for themselves, they need Mama Obama to tell them what to do.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[hey!]

5 is a lot younger than 9. In fact developmentally it's a lot younger than the 45% chronologically younger it is.

Once a medical entomologist I was working with came to me with a flow chart he'd done in Visio. "I need a program that can do this," he said. "I've looked at different modeling applications but it won't be easy in any of them. I'm pretty sure I'll need custom software."

I glanced at his flow chart, scribbled a polynomial on a scrap of paper and handed it to him. "There. Plug that into Excel and you're good to go."

He was flabbergasted. "How did you do that?"

"My job isn't writing programs," I said. "My job is transforming hard problems into easy ones. I only write actual software to prove I'm right."

Coding as an academic activity is a very narrow intellectual pursuit. Coding as a real life activity draws on a lifetime of intellectual experiences, both academic and non-academic.

Children at the age of 5 should be preparing for those experiences. If you want to know what kids that age should be doing, you should look at what public television shows like Sesame Street and Arthur targeted at them depict them doing. They go outside and play. They explore. They make real physical things. They make friends (and enemies). They express themselves by participating in art and music. They learn to deal with winning and losing by playing games.

You know the one thing that kids on those programs almost never do? Watch TV. Real kids spend way too much time in front of screens.

Now I'm all for giving 9 year-olds a taste of programming. Seymour Papert did wonderful work along those lines, including with children as young as the fifth grade -- roughly 10 years old. There isn't much difference between a 10 and a 9 year old, but there's a huge difference between a 5 and 6 year-old.

Teaching a 5 year-old about coding is just virtue signalling. It's not something you do for the kid, it's something you do for your reputation.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[PoopJuggler]

It's better than nothing, but it would have been much better for women if she had stood up against her dad's misogynistic rhetoric. She's just another weak "don't rock the boat" woman with no respect for herself, her daughter or her entire gender.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Anonymous Coward]

>There's a difference between promoting a healthy diet and exercise and imposing a healthy diet and exercise.

Well, based on the obesity and heart disease rates I don't think 'imposing' was either A) what happened or B) a bad idea.

But then again, I'm Canadian and here health care is nearly universal and tax-funded... so there's a financial incentive to promote good health in the general population.

Outside of that I'm fine with an adult making adult choices even if they're bad ones, but I see far too many fat children. That is NOT acceptable; if your children are fat (and not suffering from a mobility-inhibiting condition) before they're old enough to move out, you've failed as a parent.

Much of the complaining was from the non-fat kids whining about feeling hungry all day.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[mcmonkey]

You get all my mod points.

Which unfortunately today is zero.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Anonymous Coward]

I be you were one of the many voices who was screaming that Obama was progressive and forward thinking for being involved in the same publicity stunt in 2014.

This is why partisanship is disgusting and those who are involved with it need shouted down or even beaten down.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[110010001000]

People like theodp and a lot of the guys here don't like exposing children to code, because they feel that it threatens their jobs. They think Code.org just wants to flood the market with programmers. No, I am NOT kidding.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Anonymous Coward]

Again, nothing was imposed on anybody. Having a first lady PROMOTE a healthy lifestyle is not the same thing as mandating it. You're arguing against something that doesn't exist Senor Quixote.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Opportunist]

Don't attribute to malice what can be sufficiently explained with stupidity.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Opportunist]

Actually, I didn't even notice that Obama did anything like that. What did he do?

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Straif]

Through M. Obama's healthy eating initiatives federal school lunch guidelines were modified making lunches almost inedible. Schools across the country were complaining that new guidelines actually led to hungrier kids, increased waste (as a lot of the meals were simply thrown out) all while having the added benefit of costing them a lot more.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[gtall]

I see, so when insurance rates increase because dumb unhealthy people go to the emergency room after their life style catches up with them, you heartily approve of paying those rates. And this is precisely why libretards do not get statistics with the motto: let everyone do whatever they like as long as I'm too stupid to understand how it affects me or my family.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[CronoCloud]

Now I'm all for giving 9 year-olds a taste of programming. Seymour Papert did wonderful work along those lines, including with children as young as the fifth grade

Have you looked at those "Hour of Code" things intended for young people? They're basically turtle graphics.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[CronoCloud]

And it is prime cringe material.

Look, neophytes say cringey things BECAUSE they're neophytes and that is okay.

I cringed when people said things like "Atari tapes" or "Nintendo tapes", but....they were plastic things that held computer programs....just like actual tapes once did. Heck most of the people using those terms probably had seen some CoCo, C64 or Atari machine hooked up to a tape drive. They used terminology familiar to them, not the terminology we nerds do.

But they can learn, and if we openly cringe at the neophytes..well they may be less willing to learn.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[angel'o'sphere]

Why do you post so many idiotic posts?

I'm 50, what do I care about what young coders/programmers/software engineers learn? I have over 35 years experience ... In 30 years, I will start worrying when they perhaps have the same experience I have right now and I'm perhaps declining in mental capabilities. In other words: I fear no one. Why should I?

And why is your post idiotic, you ask?

A five year old should learn to read/write and a bit of math, and a bit of sports and playing ...

As long as it is not able to do simple math and write it is completely pointless to put it into what ever "new invented way how to teach coding" class.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Baron_Yam]

With the benefits you draw from your society comes the obligation to not be any more of a drain on it than you have to be.

People who claim liberty to the exclusion of social responsibility want the best of both worlds, and reality doesn't work that way.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except Michelle Obama didn't do that. All she did was make it so the schools would give 2 chicken nuggets instead of 6.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Anonymous Coward]

No they didn't.

If they did they got called racist.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Wulf2k]

People who die quickly at 50 are way better for society's budget than those that live to 100.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Opportunist]

Neophytes usually don't step in front of microphones and speak nonsense to the world. You know the old saying "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all remaining doubt".

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, the Diet Police were terrible. 'Member when they bombed Dunkin' Donuts and there were black-shirted mobs burning Ronald McDonald in effigy?

Oh, wait, that never happened. In what sense, exactly, did anyone "impose" anything?

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time someone promoted a healthy diet and exercise in the White House a sizable portion of the population went mad with rage.

I see what you did there.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[Anonymous Coward]

this is probably one of the best posts I've seen on Slashdot in YEARS

thanks

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[tehcyder]

You get all my mod points.

Which unfortunately today is zero.

The sheer selflessness and generosity of your gesture has touched me, a stranger, and brightened my day. Thanks, friend.

Re:What do you get with a TV-celeb as prez?

[tehcyder]

There is no difference to the communist dictatorship of the handholding left. If you let people CHOOSE to eat bad, act bad, or do whatever it is you don't think they should do, then you are as bad as they are. Don't you know? People are too dumb to think for themselves, they need Mama Obama to tell them what to do.

If you and your family lived an entirely self-sufficient existence on a desert island or something, then you would be perfectly entitled to do whatever you want, and suffer the consequences yourself.

Meanwhile, in the real world, obesity, heart disease, diabetes and the rest are costs for the whole of society.

Re: ~O~ TRUMP 2020 ~O~

[Anonymous Coward]

post.mod(Direction.Up);
post.getAuthor().award(new Internet());

First daughter is the mom

[Anonymous Coward]

Ivanka, the first daughter, is the mom here. The 5-year old didn't make that statement, Ivanka did.

Re:First daughter is the mom

[UncleRage]

Sigh.

That's what I get for responding before I've finished my first cup of coffee and am really awake.

Apologies, meerling. Yours is the correct choice of words.

Re:First daughter is the mom

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't feel too bad. James Webb Telescope was supposed to cost $1.6B and is now estimated at $8.8B. Now that's a serious fuck up.

Re:First daughter is the mom

[Nidi62]

So far though during the campaign and in the first part of the administration, Ivanka has taken on most of the roles traditionally held by the first lady. Especially since she is in DC and Melania is in NY. Everything pretty much indicates that Ivanka is closer to Trump than Melania is, so it would kind of make sense.

Re:First daughter is the mom

[Anonymous Coward]

James Webb Telescope was supposed to cost $1.6B and is now estimated at $8.8B.

What, did they get their initial estimate of the cost from Montgomery Scott?

Re:First daughter is the mom

[ausekilis]

I still think the greatest proof of brilliant people are still stupid goes to NASA. Who coincidentally also have the record for most expensive rock thrown the furthest distance. It's hard to top a $330 million, 745lb rock thrown at Mars.

Other cost/schedule screw-ups are pretty common. Just look at the F-35.

Re:First daughter is the mom

[Anonymous Coward]

WRONG!!! (In the same tone as the president)

Neither of them made that statement. It was made by Karlie Kloss - girlfriend of Jared's bro

Re:First daughter is the mom

[cavreader]

It's hard to determine the final cost when the project in question requires developing and implementing technologies that have never made it off the white board or been proven viable outside of a laboratory.

Re:First daughter is the mom

[PixelPusher1532]

If it were just a matter of being hard to determine, then roughly half of all such projects would come in under budget. I don't know what the stats are, but I am going to go out on a limb and guess that is not the case.

Re:First daughter is the mom

[Anonymous Coward]

In the case of the F-35 they use so many vendors for various sub-systems that problems blossom in the system integration phase where "back to the drawing board" is not an uncommon result. Lockheed may be the principle vendor people recognize but they have to manage 100's of outside vendors for all the various components that go into making a state of the art jet. And due to the lengthy project time some of the earlier components already in place get removed and updated because the vendor had the time to improve on their work. The avionics and computer bandwidth components were replaced with upgraded components 3 different times before the first test flight took place. The F-35 also had to accommodate vendors from multiple countries so they would signup to buy the plane. The F-22 was a US only program and the technology that went onto that plane was started back in the 1970's. When that plane was first envisioned and planned for the principle players all understood they were working on a plane for pilots who were not even born yet. Things take time and time takes money.

Re: First daughter is the mom

[Anonymous Coward]

Which... I'm okay with? I generally can't stand Trump and am disgusted by the blatant conflicts of interest. His daughter's hand aren't clean either. But if she takes on the first lady role, that's cool. It's not like we were expecting something else to happen based on the campaign. I kind of assume the president gets a pass on a +1 publicity person and don't see why it had to be their spouse.

What did Trump say after Ivanahumpalot?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ivankasuckaputincockalot.

Maybe she'll solve the Travelling Salesman Problem

[hcs_$reboot]

Talking about the daugther, of course.

Re:Lesson 1 And after lesson 1

[Anonymous Coward]

And after lesson 1, they'll both be better coders than half of you fuckwits.

It's weird...

[Anonymous Coward]

...how Ivanka is acting like the first lady with all the publicity campaign stuff... I guess The Donald would really rather fuck her.

Should be interesting

[Chrisq]

public enum TrumpBoolean{ true, false, alternative_true }

Re:Should be interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

public enum TrumpBoolean{ true, false, alternative_true, false_news }

Re:Should be interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Awesome, love it.

Re:Should be interesting

[angel'o'sphere]

Fixing that for you:

        public enum TrumpBoolean{ true, false, alternative_true, file_not_found }

Re:Lesson 1 And after lesson 1

[mwvdlee]

That's what they'll think anyway.
With trumps, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Re:Lame

[Anonymous Coward]

I would rather read more trashy news like the Kardashians then this lame post...

So read them in that order, no one is telling you to read them in a specific sequence! Oh, wait. That isn't what you mean. You just don't seem to understand that 'then' and 'than' are different words with very different meanings. How cute.

Sick of the hypocrisy

[mtmiller100]

Why are so many of you bashing her for this? She's doing something with her daughter, and it has nothing to do with you, or this country. I want you to honestly ask yourselves, if this was Michelle Obama doing this, would you be bashing her for it?

Re:Sick of the hypocrisy

[mwvdlee]

Why are so many of you bashing her for this? She's doing something with her daughter, and it has nothing to do with you, or this country.

This particular news was made public through US Secretary DeVos.
How can you possibly claim this does not have anything to do with "this country"?
Even ignoring that she is de-facto an advisor for the president with an office in the white house, security clearance and everything.
Even ignoring that she is acting as first lady in lue of the actual Mrs. Trump.

I want you to honestly ask yourselvesif this was Michelle Obama doing this, would you be bashing her for it?

Would republicans? Yes.
Would democrats? Yes, as it would be equally much a publicity stunt.

Re:Sick of the hypocrisy

[dontbemad]

Would democrats? Yes, as it would be equally much a publicity stunt.

I guess, by technicality, you are right. There would have to be at least 2 democratic voters who would bash her.
However, to make the assertion that the response would be even remotely similar to this one is beyond delusion. I'm fine with vocal commentators on this site having one bias or another; it is part of human subjectivity. But you don't all of a sudden get to pick and choose which biases you'll acknowledge when it best suits your own interests.

Or maybe you do. Why do I care enough about this to reply? Man, I need to take a break from this place.

Re:Sick of the hypocrisy

[CanadianMacFan]

How about the fact that she, et al, were supposed to be running the companies that Trump owns at arms length and not talking to Trump about anything that could be related to those companies? Instead at least two of the three of them are now working in the White House and nobody is picking up on it. This was all discussed when Trump was running for the Republican leadership.

So the only hypocrisy that I'm sick of is all of it coming from the Trumps.

Re:Sick of the hypocrisy

[Anonymous Coward]

You are so full shit shit. Hillary / Mrs. Obama pulled MUCH WORSE publicity stunts that tried to tackle controversial issues and got praised for it in the media. Then you have this "stunt" which is not controversial and should be praised by everyone, especially liberals who think women are are some sort of disadvantage in STEM, and she gets attacked for it. Do you understand the fucking irony? The very people who push for this type of shit day and night are attacking her.

It is almost as if Liberals WANT the pain and suffering of being incompetent so they can complain and get more votes and entitlements. Heaven forbid a woman role model tried to SOLVE SOMETHING by showing women they can learn something new and "uncomfortable" at the same time as teaching their kids. No we need Hillary, the corrupt fuck who wipes a server "what, like with a cloth". Yeah, that is the fucking role model we need. Hillary talks about solving problems but does nothing - and even worse - attack women when armies of lawyers.

So... Fuck you. People like you are the reason this nation sucks.

Re:Sick of the hypocrisy

[meta-monkey]

if this was Michelle Obama doing this, would you be bashing her for it?

Yes. I like the Trumps but think all the "teach kids to code" stuff is retarded.

Re:Sick of the hypocrisy

[mwvdlee]

I'm neither republican nor democratic, I'm not even from the US.
From my point of view, both republicans and democrats have about an equal share of sane people and an equal (and WAY too vocal) share of zealot idiots who scream at the other party every time they have a reason. And pretty much every time they don't have a reason.

Democrats would complain about as much about Michelle Obama as Republicans now and in the future will complain about whatever Ivanka does.
Republicans complained about as much about Michelle Obama as Democrats now and in the future will complain about whatever Ivanka does.

Don't for a second believe that either party is any better or worse than the other.
The only people who can't see this are the screaming zealot idiots.

Remember that the vast majority of people on both sides just want live in the US to be the best possible.
They just differ on what exactly they believe "best" to be.

Re:Sick of the hypocrisy

[PoopJuggler]

I will bash every single Trump child and wife over the age of 18 for not standing up to their father's evil xenophobic and misogynistic rhetoric during his campaign. No self-respecting woman would support Trump. Even Barbara Bush loathes him. The hatred and bigotry he has legitimized in the country will take decades to undo, and his children are enablers.

Re:Sick of the hypocrisy

[mtmiller100]

Oh, I get it. YOUR blatant prejudice is pefectly fine, so long as its YOU doing it. But fuck everyone else. You are no better than Trump, no better than Hillary, and are part of the damn problem.

Re:Sick of the hypocrisy

[Anonymous Coward]

And I for one welcome our new underwear supermodel coding overlords.

I really wish they had more of these around when I started the whole coding for a living thing.
It would have made daily standup meetings much more bearable.

Re:Sick of the hypocrisy

[Anonymous Coward]

When the announcement is made by the US Secretary of Education, it most definitely has something to do with this country. Combined with the fact that this woman was just given a full time position in the White House, on the very dubious qualification of being the daughter of the president. I personally think it's great if any parent takes a class like this with their child, but when a person voluntarily involves themselves in national affairs at the highest level it is fair game to question and discuss his or her motives and general position on topics imoirtant to the nation.

Re:Sick of the hypocrisy

[Anonymous Coward]

Her brothers are running the companies not her. She is working unpaid for the U.S. Govt.

Re:Sick of the hypocrisy

[Anonymous Coward]

Edgy stuff here. You better cross post it to reddit.

Re:Sick of the hypocrisy

[Anonymous Coward]

Republicans just elected the most corrupt President in more than a generation and you're going to claim that "Liberals are the reason this nation sucks?"

Re:Sick of the hypocrisy

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously he was referring to hypocrites, not a a particular party. Too many people treat politics like a sports game, and just root for their team - logic be damned.

Re:Sick of the hypocrisy

[bongey]

Expect to get stupid Trump bashing articles on /. for the next 4 years. Slashdot has taken a hard left political turn with the editors.

Re:Maybe she'll solve the Travelling Salesman Prob

[jeremyp]

A presidential aide has to visit five separate dead drops...

What??!

[Ulfilas2000]

Would have been much better if she said "PHP truly is the language of the future." What's wrong with her?

Re:What??!

[meta-monkey]

"PHP truly is the language of the future."

So this is the nightmare dystopia timeline then?

Re:What??!

[gweihir]

Well, given that the future looks pretty bad, you have a point about PHP. A screwed up language for a screwed up world.

Re:Maybe she'll solve the Travelling Salesman Prob

[denzacar]

Surely you mean the "Traveling Golfer" problem?

...Maybe...they'll *gasp* Learn something!!!

[lowkeyknight]

I'd only be worried if they were spouting this sort of thing AFTER their lessons.

What language?

[supremebob]

So, what programming language do you teach to 5 year old kids and super models? Scratch? Python?

Re:What language?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, what programming language do you teach to 5 year old kids and super models? Scratch? Python?

code.org

Re:What language?

[Anonymous Coward]

logo

Re:What language?

[CronoCloud]

Basically, Turtle graphics by dragging and dropping blocks of code.

https://hourofcode.com/frzn

Note that section 4 of the above starts teaching about the usefulness of loops.

Re:What language?

[gweihir]

Can 5 year olds typically read in the US? If not, that may complicate matters...

Re:What language?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, as python would be child abuse.

Re:What language?

[epyT-R]

They can, about as well as adult europeans can think for themselves without deferring to some local or federal bureaucracy.

Re:What language?

[Anonymous Coward]

BASIC obvs

Re:What language?

[Anonymous Coward]

If they can read, Scratch. If they can't, Scratch Jr.

Re:What language?

[Anonymous Coward]

dunno is scratching a python a good idea for 5 y.o.?
do not even think about rust for ivanka ;)

A good use of the spotlight

[c1one]

Aside from the controversy, the position is in the spotlight. Using that time to focus on events like this is beneficial and should be encouraged. The sincerity behind the motion matters not.

Missing the point

[Minupla]

Put aside your cynicism for a moment. It's hard, I get that, but just for a moment....

OK, ready?

None of these coding initiatives are about teaching someone to code. It's about exposure. Think of football (or hockey, or ...) camp for 8 year olds. Very few of those kids are going on to a brilliant professional sporting career. So we should shut them down, treat any parent who enrolls their child in such a camp with derision, etc. Right? No? Why not?

Because sometimes the experience is more important then the result.

When I was 5, I got a chance to play with a Vic 20. My landlords' daughter showed me how to do the classic:

10 PRINT "Hello World"
20 GOTO 10

I remember feeling the world change. It was a different place then before I wrote and ran that program. I *GOT* it. I knew this beige box was going to change everything.

Years later, when I was about 8, the local Commodore club got a modem. I saw what it did and felt that feeling again. I pestered my mom to let me check it out from the hardware library for months before she agreed and I dialed into a local Radio Shack BBS. The sysop started a chat and we talked in chat. This was the future.

In the years since, I ran a Fidonet network hub, ran two freenets in two cities, was the sole technical employee for a regional ISP in northern Canada, and have endeavored to make the world a slightly better place. To build the future I glimpsed when I was 5.

You know what? Never became a programmer. I can barely program my way out of a wet paper bag to this day. I know the concepts and understand how to use those concepts in my professional life, but programming itself has never set my soul alight. Does that make the experience of the journey any less important? Does it mean that the 5 year old wasted his time?

I'd argue no. I have no idea how my life might have changed if not for that chance encounter when I was 5. Maybe I'd still have followed the same life path. But for some of those kids getting exposed with the learn to code movement, statistically speaking, it will change their lives.

For me, that's enough. My daughter went to Defcon (the hacker conference) when she was 3, so hopefully she got 2 years on me in feeling that wonder.

Min

Re:Missing the point

[Lord Kano]

I was 8 years old when I wrote my first BASIC program on an Apple ][ E. I felt that same world-changing around me sensation.

I didn't get my first modem until I was 18. I was away at college and discovered BBSes, Gopher, Telnet, MUDs, MUSHs and IRC networks.

I was exposed to people from different walks of life, from different corners of the planet and of different points of view.

I'm far from the most open-minded person around but I know and appreciate the differences between people so much more than I would have if that experience of learning to code hadn't expanded my mind when I was 8 years old.

I hope that this young lady gets to experience some of what you and I did when beginning the journey.

LK

Re:Missing the point

[meta-monkey]

Yeah. For me it was sitting down in front of the new Apple IIe when I was 7, and I looked at the blinking cursor, and I looked at my older brother, and said "what now?" And he said "You read the manual" and he handed me "Basic Apple BASIC."

10 PRINT "[BROTHER'S NAME] IS A NERD"
20 GOTO 10

Magic.

Re:Missing the point

[0100010001010011]

Which is why I don't get the hate 'lets introduce kids to stuff' gets on Slashdot. When ever discussion comes up 'how did you get into programming' it's almost all of them had a combination of luck and opportunity at a young age.

I started programming HyperCard. It was a half GUI half code tool. My earliest work looks terrible and followed no coding standards but it introduced me to what was possible. These days I'd probably start with automating parts of Minecraft.

Who knows what I'd be doing with my life if I never got a Mac that came with a free "IDE". Back then I had to RTFM or figure it out through trial and error.

Re:Missing the point

[Minupla]

Ya, my kid was taught scratch by an 8 yr old boy at Defcon when she was 3. Still plays around in scratch, it's great. She may never get involved in IT as a career (she's been pretty solid on vet for a few years), but she'll also never think of them as magic boxes, and there's a power in that too.

Min

Re:Missing the point

[oh_my_080980980]

Put aside your trolling for a moment and understand the difference. One was a CHOICE, the other was FORCEFULLY FORCED DOWN YOUR THROAT. Can you figure out which one. You'll get cookie when you do.

Re:Missing the point

[oh_my_080980980]

Because you have blinders on and are covering your ears. This is making something a requirement and forcing EVERYONE to take it. It is not providing the opportunity. It's forcing people to do it.

Re:Missing the point

[Kevoco]

Coding is for proles, so where's that leave little Trump kid? It's just a fucking photo op

Re: Missing the point

[Anonymous Coward]

This was a beautiful piece of writing. And devoid of polarizing blathering that a lot of the other posters have done. Thank you for this. You're at least a decade older than I am, but I remember the wonder of discovering recursion for the first time.

There needs to be a +10 mod for posts like this that are both insightful and well written.

Re:Missing the point

[ljw1004]

Put aside your trolling for a moment and understand the difference. One was a CHOICE, the other was FORCEFULLY FORCED DOWN YOUR THROAT. Can you figure out which one. You'll get cookie when you do.

Yeah, it's called parenting. My three year old hates broccoli but I force it down her throat. (well, I insist she takes minimum one bite). That's because I know it's for the best that she be exposed to it. She's likely not going to grow up a broccoli farmer or a vegan or a chef, but she should still be exposed to it.

Re:Missing the point

[0100010001010011]

Just like we "force" all students to take an introduction to math, reading, writing, art and music.

But you can't get to doing differential equations in college if you aren't exposed to it from a young age. By time we were in high school you had electives you could choose from. Some people took calculus, others took band, choir, shop, etc. But they knew enough about what they liked because that opportunity of being 'forced' to do the basics at a young age.

Re:Missing the point

[ljw1004]

Think of football (or hockey, or ...) camp for 8 year olds. Very few of those kids are going on to a brilliant professional sporting career. So we should shut them down, treat any parent who enrolls their child in such a camp with derision, etc. Right? No? Why not? -- Because sometimes the experience is more important then the result...I remember feeling the world change.

I have nothing to add. I just want to say thank you for a well-written spot-on post. Your analogy was good, and your inspiring "feeling the world change" description gave me goosebumps to read.

Re:Missing the point

[Minupla]

I have nothing to add. I just want to say thank you for a well-written spot-on post. Your analogy was good, and your inspiring "feeling the world change" description gave me goosebumps to read.

Thank you. And you know the odd thing? Telling that story still gives me goosebumps too, because it makes me recall the feeling. I tell the story because it reminds me what I wanna do when I grow up. :)

Min

Re:Missing the point

[Minupla]

One was a CHOICE, the other was FORCEFULLY FORCED DOWN YOUR THROAT.

I'll speak to this, as I feel it gets to the core of an idea.

I got lucky as a 5 year old. I happened to be in a situation where I got access to something most 5 year olds born in the 70s never got a chance to experience. How many more people would be out there with that wonderful moment if we'd ensured every 5 year old got the opportunity to try it?

Raising my own child, we encouraged her to try many different activities (or 'forced her' if you'd prefer I use your point of view). Some of them she liked, some of them she opted not to repeat. She didn't get a choice in the matter, as she did not have the experiential base yet to make an informed decision. She decided she loves STEM activities. If we hadn't introduced them to her at an early age, and social norms ('boy' activities vs 'girl' activities) had set in, who can say how it'd have turned out. I'd like to think that she'd have developed the same way, but I'm honest enough to say I don't know.

A big part of parenting IMO is providing the opportunities to children to find the things that excite them, that give them that passion in their lives to avoid the traps that will be placed in front of them as they get older.

For me it was technology, for another it might be hockey. Whatever it is, every parents job should be to help their child find theirs.

So as a parent, anything that helps take the luck out of finding that passion makes the world a better place for my kid and all of us.

Min

Looking forward to little Miss Trump earning

[Anonymous Coward]

...her living in the bit mines.

Re:Maybe she'll solve the Travelling Salesman Prob

[Anonymous Coward]

Dining Fascists Problem.

Trump, Bannon, The_Kellyanne, Jeff Sessions, and Stephen Miller are at a table. At least two of them must be babbling lies and propaganda, otherwise the propaganda aura fades, the reality sinks in, and they all die. However, one cannot speak and eat at the same time. If that happens, the one chokes and dies. If one continues lying loudly without food for $TIMEOUT minutes, he or she starves. If more than three of them are babbling, their lies get too obvious and things get debunked quickly, and they die. If someone other than Bannon attempts to interrupt while Bannon is speaking, Bannon kills him or her.

Devise a concurrent algorithm to keep them fed and alive.

Captcha: dictator

That does it.

[seven of five]

I'm never coding again. Not a single line.

Re:That does it.

[Anonymous Coward]

well, us old timers... we don't "code" we "program", or at the very most, "develop"... but we never, never "code".

Re:That does it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm never coding again. Not a single line.

At least we don't have to worry about bad, or vulnerable, code come from you in the future so this is a net win.

Re:That does it.

[epyT-R]

Yes. Coding is for insurance bureaucrats.

RE

[freddieb]

Hope she has enough annual leave since she is now a federal employee.

Stuff no five-year-old says

[HideyoshiJP]

Stuff no five year old says:

"We're excited to learn this incredibly important new language together. Coding truly is the language of the future."

Re:Stuff no five-year-old says

[virtig01]

Her mom said it.

Re:Stuff no five-year-old says

[HideyoshiJP]

Newp.

Parroting supermodel Karlie Kloss (the girlfriend of Ivanka's brother-in-law), the first daughter added, "We're excited to learn this incredibly important new language together. Coding truly is the language of the future."

Re:Stuff no five-year-old says

[Anonymous Coward]

Ivanka Trump is the "First Daughter." But you can be mistaken for thinking she's the First Lady based on how this administration has been going. :P

I'll be blunt

[Anonymous Coward]

Who gives a flying fuck what she's doing ....

Re:Photo Op much?

[Anonymous Coward]

Better than CNN, home of fake news.

Comments?

[Anonymous Coward]

None of your guys comments have remotely anything to do with the subject. Cant we just say that's awesome that her daughter wants to be a programmer and that she is being a good supportive mother by learning along with her daughter?

Actions speak louder than words

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't expect Melania to start pumping out assembly code but instead of whining about the patriarchy like is taught in gender studies, she is taking a coding course. Libs can hate Trump all they want but this is how you get women into STEM not by burning bras. I never could understand why someone who takes a liberal arts major thinks they deserve a job in STEM.

Coding is not the future....

[Anonymous Coward]

In the future, AI will be doing the coding. In 30 years, there won't be any humans doing software development.

Re:Coding is not the future....

[gweihir]

Forget it. That is not going to happen. Incidentally, the 5th GL project promised that around 30 years ago "within 10 years" and failed completely. So that nonsense prediction is not even new. What is going to happen is that easy coding tasks will become mostly done by tools and automation, but the ones where the money is are not easy at all.

Re:Coding is not the future....

[epyT-R]

That's ok. In 300, there won't be any humans left at all.

Re:Coding is not the future....

[Anonymous Coward]

> That's ok. In 300, there won't be any humans left at all.

This. Is. SPARTA!!

lol

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesnt she have a kitchen to be in and a dick to be sitting on?

Re:lol

[PPH]

One good thing about her effort: When the misogynists start up with this shit, her secret service detail will just step up and taze them.

Talk to Ellen DeVos

[iamacat]

Seriously. For whatever reason Ivanka has some pull in Washington and can use it for good. Why not every 5 year old in the country trying coding?

This makes the issue worse

[holophrastic]

This is exactly how women in high positions screw things up for women everywhere.

STEM doesn't need more women learning STEM.
STEM needs more women actually succeeding in STEM.
The problem has never been that women have trouble with STEM.
The problem has always been that women don't stay in STEM.

Does anyone here think that Ivanka will suddenly become an engineer next year? She certainly could, but she won't.

And if she starts to learn, and effectively "quits", do you think her daughter will decide to continue on a path that mom quit?

This is simply going to be yet another high-profile example where two women enter STEM, and both quit.

That's not helpful -- not to anyone.

If you want to change reality, it always requires the very same thing: sacrifice. If Ivanka wants to get more women into STEM, she can easily give up her other dreams, and go into STEM herself.

And if "actresses" want to be considered "actors", all they need to do is refuse to accept the "best actress" award, three years in a row. That's it.

Re:This makes the issue worse

[gweihir]

I fully agree. I know quite a few women that did not quit and have STEM MAs and PhDs, including one PhD-level construction engineer (very rare here and no, she is not hard to look at at all). If they manage to stay on it, women will be just as good at STEM subjects as men. Not better, but not worse either. They need to fight through it though, just the same as the men, and that seems to be a problem for many. Incidentally, I asked most of them for gender discrimination and the answers ranged from "no" to "some specific professor, but he could be avoided", so that is not a valid reason why there are less female STEM graduates.

Re:This makes the issue worse

[holophrastic]

...and offset those gender-discrimination bottlenecks against those sleeping-to-the-top fast-lanes, and I think you'll find that women have more opportunities to get ahead than do the men -- whether or not such opportunities are subjectively attractive.

You're absolutely right.

But it's a stupid tunnel here. It's perfectly fine to say that some personalities aren't as interested in STEM. And it's perfectly fine to say that some personalities are more often found in one gender/age/demographic/geography/timezone than another.

I have no problem with the abstract concept that, as a population, women aren't as interested in STEM as are men, for whatever reason. I also have no problem with women not wanting to work around men -- that's also reasonable.

I'm not fit, I don't want to work around life-guards and fire-fighters. I don't like sports, I don't want to work around athletes and jocks. I'm not asking for society to make fat people more welcome in working in the fitness industry. I just don't build web-sites for personal trainers & gyms -- and you know what, it's not because they are terrible clients, it's because every day they invite me to work out with them, and to take lessons from them, and I'm not at all interested in getting sweaty and showering with my web-site clients.

coding with children

[Kreplock]

I took a "coding class" with my youngest child a couple months ago. We used Scratch, which is obviously very different from the C++ classes I completed while earning my degree. It's not about learning to become a programmer - it's about doing something fun with your kid and giving them a bit of exposure. Maybe your child will embrace it and dig much deeper, ultimately learning actual coding. Showing enthusiasm is part of the experience. "Hey, let's make a game!" It's called parenting. Ivanka is on target with this. I doubt she cares much about Actual Programming, and when the other adults would refer to the dragging/dropping of activity boxes as "coding" I didn't jump all over them about what Actual Real Coding is. Instead I imagined how assembler coders might feel when watching people code in Perl.

LOL

[Orgasmatron]

What? A Trump is interested in programming? I hate programming now.

Coding is torture.

[Anonymous Coward]

I cannot comprehend what kind of sick sadist would want to impose this horrible act of self-torture onto others.

Re:Coding is torture.

[gweihir]

It is only torture if you do not have "it". If you do, it can be anything from a nicely relaxing to deeply satisfying intense thing, depending on the task. Anybody that does not like coding should stay away from it though, they will never be any good at it. My boss these days asks job applicants whether they code in their spare-time for fun. Pretty much any good engineer will make the job a real part of their live and coding is not different.

How about the science museum?

[oh_my_080980980]

You know doing something real. Maybe help your child develop an interest in science which may lead to a career in science or engineering and not simple being a code monkey.

Re:How about the science museum?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know doing something real. Maybe help your child develop an interest in science which may lead to a career in science or engineering and not simple being a code monkey.

You really think that kid's going to actually write code for a living?

That's the plan...

[Anonymous Coward]

Until her spot is taken by a 5 year old from Bangalore.

Kudos to our 1st lady... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

See my subject: She speaks 5 languages. Picking up coding will be easier for her due to that imo (indicates mental flexibility).

APK

P.S.=> I speak 3 languages & code in ~ 12 computer languages (largely all the same nowadays w/ RAD tools via Object.Property & methods acting on said object's properties anyhow so those as opposed to say, Assembler, come quicker/faster due to such similar design) & can say that in her favor (Pres. Trump did well - she's not only beautiful but also smart & obviously motivated to know more too)... apk

Ivanka To Pose for Photos at Code Class

[Kevoco]

ftfy

A Trump Republican?

[SuperKendall]

You pay taxes? Seriously? What kind of republican are you?

As Racheal Maddow showed us, in just one year Trump paid $38 *million* in income taxes, more than probably the whole of Slashdot will pay on income taxes in a lifetime.

Re:A Trump Republican?

[Anonymous Coward]

You pay taxes? Seriously? What kind of republican are you?

As Racheal Maddow showed us, in just one year Trump paid $38 *million* in income taxes, more than probably the whole of Slashdot will pay on income taxes in a lifetime.

And more importantly, he received $38 *million* back in his tax returns. Sure, he probably paid more than the entirety of slashdot, but he also probably got a larger percentage of that money back than we receive in our tax returns.

Re:A Trump Republican?

[slew]

And more importantly, he received $38 *million* back in his tax returns. Sure, he probably paid more than the entirety of slashdot, but he also probably got a larger percentage of that money back than we receive in our tax returns.

[citation needed]
According to this, he had a tax liability of $38,435,451 when he finalized his return. Payments by trump were that he had $433,365 of federal taxes withheld on W-2/1099 forms, he made estimated tax payments of $13,291,993 through the year, and then payed an additional $22,400,000 on April 15th with his request to file an extension, which left him an additional $2,292,945 short when he finalized his return which cost him $68,738 in underpayment penalties and $88,564 in interest.

I don't see anywhere he received $38 *million* back in his tax returns...

Re:A Trump Republican?

[lowkeyknight]

See how much he pays when the AMT goes and nothing replaces it.

"Coding is the language of the future"

[gweihir]

Like claiming "voice" is the spoken language of the future.... I think that says it pretty much all: She is utterly clueless.

Obama too

[Anonymous Coward]

Something Hello World in python

She's Hired!

[Anonymous Coward]

For my startup

i'll be honest

[citylivin]

because fuck trump, that's why.

i'm so tired about hearing about fucking trump, his family, his problems, his manufactured outrages. Every fucking day i have to read that attention whore and his kins name in the news. We need reddit type filters that will block all trump related stories on slashdot.

then all you americans can enjoy your pro and anti trump jerkoff by yourselves while your country becomes obsolete.

8 more years of this shit?

Re:i'll be honest

[epyT-R]

I have a better idea. If you don't like reading about trump, stop using amero-centric sites and build your own. Quit expecting others to cater to your personal feelings.

You won't be saying that...

[Anonymous Coward]

... when your job gets outsourced to a 5 year old...

First assignment

[Anonymous Coward]

write "goodbye world"

Ok, guys it is time for the bitter truth.

[Anonymous Coward]

We don't need women in the business at all.
What we need are qualified professionals. All the "empowering" programs for girls just suck-up money that could have gone to whoever is interested.

Warren Buffett lied

[GPS Pilot]

Buffett and his secretary pay exactly the same tax rate on their respective capital gains.

And unless Mr. Buffett is an incredibly stingy SOB, his secretary is in the top tax bracket; therefore he and his secretary pay exactly the same tax rate on earned income.

On the other hand if he is an incredibly stingy SOB, his secretary pays a lower rate than he does on earned income.

Either way, his fib has deceived millions of people.

Legally blonde?

[Bitbeisser]

Don't know what hair color that bimbo sports, but that last sentence certainly qualifies her as legally Blonde...

Are we missing the key point?

[barrygrommit]

Wow...how quickly the slashdot discussion goes astray.

Ms. Trump and young Ms. Trump will learn all about coding.
Then young Ms. Trump will grow up, get a software engineer job, make a decent living, then get replaced by an H1-B visa from somewhere offshore.
Of course, young Ms. Trump will be forced to train her replacement or lose her severance.
Young Ms. Trump will then complain to her grandfather, who will tell her to run for office.
At this point, someone else can pick up the story line.