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Microsoft's Nadella Says Company Will Make More Phones, But They Won't Look Like Today's Devices (zdnet.com)

As he told the Make Me Smart podcast, Microsoft is looking for something far more transformative, like an entirely new category of smartphone that's so original and appealing that OEMs won't be able to resist tagging along. From a report: "At this point we're making sure that all of our software is available on iOS and Android and it's first class and we're looking for what's the next change in form and function," he said when asked whether Microsoft would make another phone. Nadella doesn't discuss what form these mobile devices could take, though Microsoft does have some candidates, like its HoloLens augmented reality (AR) headgear. No doubt he's keeping close tabs on Google's early progress with its Tango phone AR experiments.

150 comments

  1. Appsoft will make appy app apps! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Unlike LUDDITE phones, which require switching between LUDDITE programs, Appsoft's new appy app apps will be one app per app! It will make everything appier!

    Apps!

    1. Re: Appsoft will make appy app apps! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't understand what you are failing to communicate. It seems to be a valid point but you write it crazy. Luddite I think maybe look in the mirror.

  2. Future Windows phone... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

    My friend works at a Sprint store. They have a Microsoft Windows phone that sits in the storage room and no one ever asks to see it. Unless Microsoft is willing to put money behind their promotions like Samsung, HTC and LG, my friend has no incentives to sell a Microsoft Windows phone.

    1. Re:Future Windows phone... by fred6666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not a promotion problem. It's a device problem. Which Windows Phone devices compete with the Galaxy S8? The iPhone 7?
      They are always 6-12 months late (especially if you compare to Android, where they use the same components).

      You simply get more with the competition.

    2. Re:Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Unless Microsoft is willing to put money behind their promotions like Samsung, HTC and LG, my friend has no incentives to sell a Microsoft Windows phone.

      Microsoft did put money behind their promotions. What they didn't do is allow carriers to completely rebuild the OS like Google does. If carriers could ignore the momentum of the brand, they'd keep iOS phones in the storage room hidden from view also.

    3. Re:Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What they didn't do is allow carriers to completely rebuild the OS like Google does.

      I've been around a while and I recall quite clearly how the windows phone fanboys were crowing about how Nokia had an arrangement with MS where they could do exactly this to the Windows Phone OS and how they were going to crush Android and all the other OEMs. We see how that worked out.

      The fact is that people just don't like what MS was offering. I had a Windows Phone with version 7 of the OS a few years ago just to play around with. You know what? It sucked.

    4. Re:Future Windows phone... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      If carriers could ignore the momentum of the brand, they'd keep iOS phones in the storage room hidden from view also.

      iOS phones sell themselves. It's the other phone manufacturers that have to fund marketing campaigns to get noticed.

    5. Re:Future Windows phone... by David_Hart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What they didn't do is allow carriers to completely rebuild the OS like Google does.

      I've been around a while and I recall quite clearly how the windows phone fanboys were crowing about how Nokia had an arrangement with MS where they could do exactly this to the Windows Phone OS and how they were going to crush Android and all the other OEMs. We see how that worked out.

      The fact is that people just don't like what MS was offering. I had a Windows Phone with version 7 of the OS a few years ago just to play around with. You know what? It sucked.

      The Nokia phones were very nice phones. The problem with the Windows Phone OS is the lack of Apps. For example, when I got my Surface Pro 4 I tried to find the same apps that I use on my Android tablet and my iPhone and they just don't exist for Windows. Granted, with a full fledged tablet computer like the Surface Pro 4 you don't need apps, but they tend to be simpler and quicker to launch than the full web page.

    6. Re:Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still use my LG Optimus 2X.

    7. Re:Future Windows phone... by spire3661 · · Score: 2

      Keep in mind, for all of Microsoft's bullshit about cross compatibility, there are plenty of windows phone apps that wont even show up in windows store on PC. When i look on Windows Store on my PC, Spotify doesnt exist, so for a long time i just assumed Spotify wasnt on Windows Store at all. Turns out there is an app, but you can only see it if you are on Windows Mobile. I couldnt believe MS wouldnt give me an option to look at the whole store.

      It looks like MS is giving up on ARM altogether and doubling down on x86. They probably see Intel weakening and figure they can get cheap chips out of them.

      As to your last point, the Netflix app absolutely sucks on my Surface 3, but netflix runs perfect in Chrome on the same system.

      --
      Good-bye
    8. Re:Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're friend is a fuckwit.

    9. Re:Future Windows phone... by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 2

      I've noticed that whenever I get a spammail from AT&T wanting me to buy their crap, it's almost always an Android phone they're pushing.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    10. Re:Future Windows phone... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      you're friend is a fuckwit.

      In what way?

    11. Re:Future Windows phone... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      It looks like MS is giving up on ARM altogether and doubling down on x86. They probably see Intel weakening and figure they can get cheap chips out of them.

      I take it you missed the announcement of the ARMv8 version of Windows 10 with an emulator that allows running x86 programs natively?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    12. Re:Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with the Windows Phone OS is the lack of Apps.

      Bullshit. When the Nokia deal went down, the app train wasn't anywhere near the full steam it is right now. Back then most people that bought Android rarely downloaded a single app. There are statistics from that time showing this to be true. The fact is that Windows Phone despite how it's very vocal few dozens of users would have you believe just sucks for the normal user. Why I don't really know. Personally, I didn't like the animations, too swoopy or something. I also didn't like the browser. It didn't render well or quickly. There were many other niggling issues too.

    13. Re:Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I take it you missed the announcement of the ARMv8 version of Windows 10 with an emulator that allows running x86 programs natively?

      The Courier will be released before this shitshow has any kind of an impact. Phones are slow enough as it is, yes even phones with the heralded SD 835, and you think emulating x86 on top of it and running any relevant application is going to be useful in any way? Yeah fucking right. Not to mention with this announcement, they've basically admitted Windows Phone is finished.

    14. Re:Future Windows phone... by Lije+Baley · · Score: 0

      There advertising was OK, but they did not provide the necessary incentives to the carriers and their salespeople -- nothing like what the Android purveyors were offering. Microsoft could buy the entire markets for phones, game consoles, or whatever they want to sell, but they always seem to undermine their own investments. They spent over 7 billion on Nokia, but couldn't spend a couple hundred million to bribe some folks to sell the damn phones.

      --
      Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
    15. Re: Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > emulator
      > runs natively

      Choose one

    16. Re: Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Although you are probably right. You shouldn't make fun of ugly people. What if you family read this and found you hate them as they are ugly.

    17. Re:Future Windows phone... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Natively". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    18. Re:Future Windows phone... by gmack · · Score: 1

      My friend works at a Sprint store. They have a Microsoft Windows phone that sits in the storage room and no one ever asks to see it. Unless Microsoft is willing to put money behind their promotions like Samsung, HTC and LG, my friend has no incentives to sell a Microsoft Windows phone.

      They tried this while I was in Spain. They spent a fortune on advertising and discounts as well as unleashed a full on FUD campaign against Android. It worked, sortof, Their share jumped by 7% but many people switched back when they bought their next phone and now Windows Mobile is back down to almost nothing.

    19. Re:Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      but they did not provide the necessary incentives to the carriers and their salespeople -- nothing like what the Android purveyors were offering.

      *bzzzt*
      Try again. Most of the "Android purveyors" (Samsung, HTC, LG, etc.) were the same OEMs hawking windows phones. The real answer is Windows Phones don't sell because Windows Phone OS sucks.

    20. Re: Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Microsoft did try to buy the market. Don't you remember the Nokia bribe, followed by the Nokia purchase when that didn't work?

      They easily sunk 30 billion into that turd, and that's not even counting the free marketing that at&t gave to them.

    21. Re:Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      meaningless - exactly. there are zero people going to the store and buying that iphone 5s.

      That's a goddamned lie.

      https://www.boostmobile.com/#!...

      Next excuse?

    22. Re:Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not even if it looks like a 1958 Edsel?

    23. Re:Future Windows phone... by bondsbw · · Score: 2

      Yep, and they really can't compete by just having a comparable product. It has to be better for a lot of people if they ever want market share.

      That's a good thing... either it will be good and gain traction, or bad and go away.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    24. Re: Future Windows phone... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      That Nokia purchase reminds me of Apple's purchase of Power Computing, when they decided to pull the plug on the Mac clones

    25. Re:Future Windows phone... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      I've been around a while and I recall quite clearly how the windows phone fanboys were crowing about how Nokia had an arrangement with MS where they could do exactly this to the Windows Phone OS and how they were going to crush Android and all the other OEMs. We see how that worked out.

      The fact is that people just don't like what MS was offering. I had a Windows Phone with version 7 of the OS a few years ago just to play around with. You know what? It sucked.

      I've never had a 7 phone, but from what I recall, it was based on CE and its screen looked like an XP desktop screen. Which was a horrible UI for a phone. The Windows Phone 8 was a completely different beast - being based on the same kernel as Windows 8. Incidentally, the same Metro UI, which sucked on laptops w/o a touch screen, was great on a Windows phone.

      I've had 3 Windows phones overall - a Lumia 520, 929 (Icon) and now a 550. The first 2 were upgradable to Windows Phone 8.1, while the 550 is a native Windows phone. In fact, it just upgraded yesterday to the latest version of the Creator edition, or whatever Microsoft calls it. It looks a lot better than the first Windows 8 phones, which somehow were limited to only ~25 colors or so, and didn't allow you to set a wallpaper or anything.

    26. Re:Future Windows phone... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind, for all of Microsoft's bullshit about cross compatibility, there are plenty of windows phone apps that wont even show up in windows store on PC. When i look on Windows Store on my PC, Spotify doesnt exist, so for a long time i just assumed Spotify wasnt on Windows Store at all. Turns out there is an app, but you can only see it if you are on Windows Mobile. I couldnt believe MS wouldnt give me an option to look at the whole store. It looks like MS is giving up on ARM altogether and doubling down on x86. They probably see Intel weakening and figure they can get cheap chips out of them. As to your last point, the Netflix app absolutely sucks on my Surface 3, but netflix runs perfect in Chrome on the same system.

      Your first statement - about phone apps that don't show up on the PC store - is correct, not just about Spotify, but others like Yelp & Fandango. But your second statement doesn't follow from that - that Microsoft is giving up on ARM and doubling down on x86. In fact, on the rumored Surface Phones, it was said that they'd be building it w/ the Snapdragon and then emulating x86 in order to run native x86 binaries. Which would suck as far as battery life goes.

      The apps do have to be actually cross-compiled for both x86 and ARM. The only ones I know of are those from Microsoft.

    27. Re:Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      then why do I see 5 times the number of iPhone adds of any other phone

      disclosure: not in the US

    28. Re:Future Windows phone... by oakgrove · · Score: 2

      I've never had a 7 phone, but from what I recall, it was based on CE and its screen looked like an XP desktop screen.

      Nope. The 7 was the first iteration of the departure from the XP-esque desktop. It had what used to be called the Metro interface and the whole bit.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    29. Re:Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's definitely a sales/promotion problem. Look at Windows Phone market share in other countries, where the products are the same but the promotion/sales incentives work differently. In the US, Windows Phone has always struggled to reach 2.5% market share. In, e.g., Italy, France, New Zealand, it's been over 10% at times.

    30. Re: Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buying online != shopping online

    31. Re: Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You multiplying or doing addition? Make your mind up sir. xD

    32. Re: Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're an idiot.

    33. Re:Future Windows phone... by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      it was said that they'd be building it w/ the Snapdragon and then emulating x86 in order to run native x86 binaries. Which would suck as far as battery life goes.

      Since no Windows Phone apps are compiled exclusively for Intel, we're talking desktop programs here. In which case the user would typically not care about batteries in doing the Continuum thing - dock the phone to a power supply and external keyboard, mouse and hotel TV.

    34. Re: Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WHAT YOU SAY CAPTAIN??!

    35. Re: Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The subsidy / promotion explanations make some sense, as does the lack of apps. But as the Czechs say, you can't put lipstick on a turd.

      The world figured out your game with Windows Mobile 6.5, Microsoft, and they want no part of your ham-fisted attempts at mobile.

    36. Re: Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because you're looking for them!

    37. Re: Future Windows phone... by Black+LED · · Score: 1

      You have no chance to survive make your time.

    38. Re:Future Windows phone... by jezwel · · Score: 1

      In which case the user would typically not care about batteries in doing the Continuum thing - dock the phone to a power supply and external keyboard, mouse and hotel TV.

      I cannot believe we are still waiting for a phone with dock that runs Windows x32/64 natively at 'good enough' speed. With the right integration into Enterprise tools and systems, a single Windows mobile phone could replace desktops, laptops, tablets, desk phones and mobile phones . Heck MS could charge enough to recoup the lost revenue from Windows desktop OS and we'd still be ahead on device management and integration. So many other things could become easier to manage & track.

    39. Re:Future Windows phone... by ls671 · · Score: 1

      Give him a break, he just made a typo and meant to write: "Nadilely".

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    40. Re:Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was forced into using several of these and they sucked at the core features of a phone. They kept losing connectivity, they had lots of random crashes. Windows phones never could stand a side-by-side comparison with similarly priced android devices.

      It could be, that I was just unlucky with my 3 Nokias, 1 HTC and 1 Samsung Windows phones, but similar issues with the ~700 devices at my company tell a different story.

      None of the issues with Windows phones were related to a lack of apps. The important things all existed. It's just that the UI is a clusterfuck of unintuitive inconsistency, the updating software is a nightmare of it's own and i don't even want to talk about how they fucked up their email client

    41. Re:Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      with an emulator that allows running x86 programs natively?

      I'm pretty sure that's not what "natively" means.

    42. Re:Future Windows phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with the Windows Phone OS is the lack of Apps.

      Bullshit. When the Nokia deal went down, the app train wasn't anywhere near the full steam it is right now. Back then most people that bought Android rarely downloaded a single app. There are statistics from that time showing this to be true. The fact is that Windows Phone despite how it's very vocal few dozens of users would have you believe just sucks for the normal user. Why I don't really know. Personally, I didn't like the animations, too swoopy or something. I also didn't like the browser. It didn't render well or quickly. There were many other niggling issues too.

      The interface was shit. Everyone hated it on Windows 8 also.

    43. Re:Future Windows phone... by fred6666 · · Score: 1

      Meaningless. There's no shortage of people running around with iPhone 5s in this day and age.

      Of course. But they got it for cheaper, or they paid full price but got it when it was new.
      Microsoft is asking full price for devices which are already 6-12 months late when they release.

  3. Oooh ooh, I have an idea! by Narcocide · · Score: 2

    How about a phone that folds in half!

    It's gonna be revolutionary!!

    1. Re:Oooh ooh, I have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think those were somewhat common in North America for a while. Motorola and Samsung tried to sell them elsewhere too, but not with much success.

    2. Re:Oooh ooh, I have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They were common in Europe and Asia too. I'm not sure what you are on about.

    3. Re:Oooh ooh, I have an idea! by istartedi · · Score: 1

      They could make two models. A small one to carry in your pocket, and a big one with a full sized keyboard. Revolutionary, indeed.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    4. Re:Oooh ooh, I have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they were about 80% of the market in Australia

      GP is on crack it seems

    5. Re:Oooh ooh, I have an idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it supports texting, web surfing, has a camera and folds up easily into your side pants pocket, wouldn't you at least want to see it? Surprised nobody's come out with one yet.

  4. how about another Kin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Remember Kin? No? I don't blame you. A killer product such as Kin would be amazing.

    1. Re:how about another Kin? by PPH · · Score: 1

      Maybe. Is it possible to port Linux to it?

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:how about another Kin? by Anon-Admin · · Score: 1

      Never heard of it, is it something like Microsoft Bob?

    3. Re:how about another Kin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, Microsoft Bob was a much more successful product.

  5. Wow, doubling down on stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even dumber is my landlord is a principal strategist for Windows Mobile, and he recently got a huge bonus and a large raise while also laying-off a bunch of programmers. Who is going to do the work?

    1. Re:Wow, doubling down on stupid by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Outsourced contractors?

  6. They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by Indy1 · · Score: 1

    and get no where. That ship has sailed, and IOS and Android own the mobile market. But M$ will toss endless amounts of money after it in a vain hope to gain traction, much like they keep pouring money into Bing to no end.

    --
    Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
    1. Re:They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by Solandri · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That's been their MO for several decades. Someone comes out with a hot product, they copy it, pour gobs of money on marketing it, take losses for the first few years, but eventually take over the market. Unfortunately for them, that MO usually worked because they were able to leverage their Windows monopoly to help the product gain acceptance (Office, Internet Explorer, disk compression, disk encryption, etc). The Xbox is one of their few successes at this independent of Windows, Zune probably the most notable failure.

      It would've been a lot easier for them if they'd actually thought ahead to what the future might bring, instead of copying others. Back in the 1990s they managed to displace Palm as the market leader for PDA OSes (by copying Palm but promising to make their OS share the Windows API). By the late 1990s it was obvious to most everyone that PDAs and phones would converge. All Microsoft had to do was add phone support to WinCE (which became Windows Mobile). But a few WinCE PDA companies tried to add phone functionality to their PDAs, and got no help from Microsoft. Their products were panned by reviewers for failing to work consistently as a phone, which is kinda important since phones are historically very reliable. The new smartphone market instead ended up being taken over by Blackberry (in North America) and Nokia (in Europe) who added PDA capability to their phones. And Microsoft has been trying to play catch-up ever since.

    2. Re:They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They'll keep wasting billions on personal computers... and get no where. That ship has sailed, and the Apple ][ and Commodore 64 own the personal computer market. But M$ will toss endless amounts of money after it in a vain hope to gain traction, much like they keep pouring money into MS BASIC to no end.

      Microsoft wasn't pushing the DOS-based PC, they were selling DOS to IBM, who used their dominance in the business computing market to push it and Microsoft rode their coat tails.

      They'll keep wasting billions on GUI desktops... and get no where. That ship has sailed, and the Macintosh and IBM's OS/2 own the GUI desktop market. But M$ will toss endless amounts of money after it in a vain hope to gain traction, much like they keep pouring money into DOS to no end.

      Windows 3 had a dominant market position before OS/2 shipped. The Mac had an advantage, but Microsoft could sell Windows as a DOS upgrade to a huge installed base, whereas switching to a Mac required buying a new machine. As long as DOS (specifically, DOS-running PC clones) were controlling the business computing market, they were able to leverage one monopoly to gain another.

      They'll keep wasting billions on word processing... and get no where. That ship has sailed, and Wordperfect owns the word processing market. But M$ will toss endless amounts of money after it in a vain hope to gain traction, much like they keep pouring money into Windows to no end.

      Word for DOS didn't get much traction and Microsoft changed APIs at the last minute to break the Wordperfect port to Windows, giving them a first-mover advantage. Once again, leveraging one monopoly to gain another.

      They'll keep wasting billions on video game consoles... and get no where. That ship has sailed, and Nintendo and Sony own the video game console market. But M$ will toss endless amounts of money after it in a vain hope to gain traction, much like they keep pouring money into the Zune to no end.

      With this one you have a point, except that the network effects for consoles are a lot less than with smartphones. People expect (or, at least, expected) that a new console would come with new games, so not being able to run legacy apps wasn't a problem. Even then, Microsoft was only able to do this because they used almost the same APIs as Windows and so made it easy to port Windows games (of which there were a lot) to the XBox. They were also able to throw a few billion at getting the market share. In contrast, people now expect to be able to run their existing Smartphone apps on their new phone, or at least to get the equivalent version. Not only are there not many Windows Phone apps, far fewer new ones are being written.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're 1/2 right. With Windows Phone 7 they got it right and spent money promoting it. It was new and different, there were app bounties, subsidies for advertising and they had decent OEM partners. Even though they were way behind, they clawed their way to double-digit market share, but they made a lot of mistakes after that.

    4. Re:They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The Xbox is one of their few successes at this independent of Windows

      "Success" only in the sense that it wasn't an outright failure. Xbox never "took over the market" like Microsoft's more Windows-centric conquests. The Playstation 2 massively outsold the original Xbox, which only just edged out the GameCube. The Playstation 3 was neck and neck with the Xbox 360, both of which got outsold by the Wii. The Xbox One has lost decisively to the Playstation 4 and has been outsold by the Wii U.

    5. Re:They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had one of these. The HTC wizard (Well the cingular branded version)

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Wizard

      Windows mobile. SD card. Wireless data. Web browser. Wifi. Bluetooth. Slide out keyboard. You could load custom applications and play media. You could bluetooth tether and get data on your laptop.

      Trouble was, most of those things were prety much a novelty. Web browsing in particular was bad- Most assumed WAP was still the future for mobile browsing at the time.. The windows CE interface was a joke from when resistive touch screens with a stylus were the future and even by those standards it was considered bad.

      But that was the best there was at the time and it was DAMN cool and useful.

      I had the HTC wizard and I loved it.. Until I picked up an iphone at the ATT store. Five minutes later I gave up half of the features listed above. It was the web browsing that sold it really. Went from being a barely usable novelty to being able to render, navigate, and use any site.

    6. Re:They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your opening sentence just described their penchant for E E E

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish

    7. Re:They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      I don't think Microsoft is still hemorrhaging from their struggles in the early 00's, I think there's more to it.

      First off, Microsoft didn't monopolize the market, but the Palm/Blackberry/WinMo split was vaguely even. I forget who was who, but even a 20% share of that three legged race was a good place to be. Microsoft also competed quite well with Blackberry for control in the server room - BES was an excellent product that made devices basically-interchangeable and management a breeze, but was much more expensive than WinMo's integration with AD and being "just another computer in the domain".

      No, Microsoft did make a bunch of missteps, but they were at the ground floor. While the HTC Touch Pro2 and HD2 were arguably the best WinMo phones ever made (HTC's TouchFlo 3D interface being a primary reason for that), it was too little, too late, as Microsoft had committed to a revamp of WinMo. They made Windows Phone 7, and their app development toolset was based on Silverlight and XAML (har har). Also, while Android had (and still has) a vibrant modding community, and Apple had a pretty solid jailbreaking scene, Microsoft 'handled' the Chevron team almost immediately, leaving no ability for mods or a modding community to start embracing the platform. Their hardware was lackluster at best, and what the earliest iterations of the iPhone brought to the table was the ability to consolidate the MP3 player and the phone. WP7 played MP3s, of course, but there was no meaningful music store or means of integrating with iTunes, so it was one hell of a chore to get music onto the phone, especially if one's music collection was DRM'd from iTunes.

      So, MS flailed around on WP7, and then released 7.5, which worked on most phones, and they couldn't make slabs with rounded corners to compete with Apple's slabs of rounded corners, at (arguably) the height of iPhone fanfare.

      WinPho 8 was then the 'next big thing'. It wasn't compatible with WP7 apps, or half the phones running WP7, but they "really got it right this time". They ditched the Silverlight crap, and they bought Nokia for pennies on the dollar (Thanks, Elop!). By now, WP8 on Nokia hardware...they tried to market it (remember the Lumia ads?), and the hardware wasn't *quite* all that bad...but now they had to compete with incumbent ecosystems; it wasn't people's first smartphone and they needed a good reason to switch. MS didn't give them one, though I will give them credit for the "smoked by a Windows Phone" challenge being a solid attempt. They got a little piece of the low-end market, but this was bad for everyone because the OS didn't run great on low end hardware, and app developers weren't going to make much money from people with prepaid phones and such. And WP8 further integrated Bing services that weren't all that great, and only started to give a music/movie option that was passable, and were still competing with the Galaxy S3 and HTC One and other phones of the era. Meanwhile, the stores of cell carriers kept one in the back for the occasional MS fanboy, but they were hesitant to sell them - not because of a lack of education or marketing muscle, but because of the insanely high return figures. If over half the Windows phones that go out the door come back, are you going to continue pushing them, or are you going to sell what you know generally keeps people happy? That was the problem. The corollary was that MS never seemed to think to ask the question of why the return rates were so high and address them.

      Then, WP10 was announced, and again, it wouldn't work on any of the hardware, nor would it run any of the apps....so why, exactly, would anyone stick with a platform that fragmented the developers and didn't have a modding community to help pick up the slack? Yeah, twice bitten, thrice shy.

      I still remember (and recently re-watched) the presentation that was done when Office 2007 was released and everyone was up in arms over the ribbon. Agree or disagree with the outcome, that 90-minute presentation pretty clearly demonstrated that a

    8. Re:They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      As much as I despise MS and their slimy tricks, I don't want only two co's to control most of phone tech. A third (or more) player would be helpful overall.

    9. Re:They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by wjcofkc · · Score: 1

      I can testify that the Palm Treo line was intensely popular with business users at least throughout 2006. It was largely the Treo 650 from 2004 that carried the flame. I worked in Sprint's IT dept. at the time, so those phones were my domain. Users reported to me that everything past 7xx was slow buggy garbage. Finally Sprint forced everyone to start using something in the 7xx line. The users were royally pissed and just wanted their old reliable 650's back. I believe it was 2008 when Palm started using Windows CE, but they were a rotting corpse by then anyway. As for me? In 2006 I had the first Motorola Photon. It was a WinCE phone, and not only was it pretty damn good for the time, it was easily the most readily hackable phone I have ever owned.

      --
      Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    10. Re:They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is up with all this negativity? It is better to try and fail than not try at all, for both MS and us - users.

      If they do bad job, don't buy it, no one is forcing you, if they actually do something worthwhile, then you just have another option to choose from, you still can buy yours Android, IOS device if you want. Never understood people like you...

      BTW, I have Nokia 920, using Edge, and Bing, and am happy with all 3.

      Note: in my mind if you need to go around and put down products of competitors to promote your chosen products, then maybe yours product is not that good to begin with, and you just trying to convince yourself in its superiority to feel better about buying it.

    11. Re:They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      One of the issues Nokia had was too many models. This was something they did previously w/ their Symbian phones, and which they continued to do now. So if you shopped, there was no good reason to prefer a certain phone to another. Also, on some of the initial phones, the case colors were too gaudy, and looked like kids phones. The first smartphone I ever had was the Lumia 520, which was a great phone. I used HERE maps & directions, OneNote, and it was the first time I started to text regularly. Previously, texting was all but impossible on phones where you had just the numeric keypad to type, and to make things worse, Nokia would try to guess what the word was. At the time I bought that, typing was not only a breeze, but superior to that on both iOS and Android (although both have since caught up).

      On the return issue, one of the phones I had was the Lumia Icon - Verizon's brand of the phone. 2 years ago, I had to return it a few months after buying it due to the battery going dead. Instead of replacing the battery, they wanted to replace the phone. Since at the time, I needed some of the apps that were not available on Windows Phone, I asked them to replace it w/ a Moto X instead. That's no longer an issue now, so once the contract expires, I plan to move that number to my Lumia 550.

    12. Re: They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They've done a bad job. That is why hardly anyone is buying their phones. You can't see it because you are blinded. Just because you are a fanboy and on the train doesn't mean the products are good. Microsoft has a reputation for putting out shit. You can't debate that. They have a proven track record of stinky products that launched and then got killed. This is yet another brick in the wall.

    13. Re:They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you have numbers for Xbox One being outsold by the Wii U? That seemed surprising to me, so I had to look it up. A random source on the internet has it the other way around, but I have no idea how much that can be trusted. They also claim that the only year Wii U outsold Xbox One was 2013; but it looks like XBox One was released November that year, whereas the Wii U shipped a year earlier.

      (I'm mainly an old PC games person, and don't care much about any of the consoles.)

    14. Re:They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Treo was ok. I had a Samsung I300 PalmOS phone and an I500 later.

      I was actually hoping the iPhone's OS would be more similar to NewtonOS 2.1 instead of a gimped and locked down consumer appliance.

    15. Re:They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by sd4f · · Score: 1

      Just a correction, the phones were backwards compatible with apps but old phones weren't forwards compatible. WP8 phones could run WP7 apps, and similarly, W10M phones could run WP8 and WP7 apps, but WP7 devices were stuck with WP7 apps.

      The big problem was that developersprogressively stopped supporting the platform, and last year, for instance has been really bad. WP7 and WP8 apps were getting pulled, while no replacement for W10M was being offered. I think the reboots caused a lot of this, and in hindsight, it was around 2015 when the strategy changed, and MS was starting to retrench.

      It's a dead platform and all that Nadella's comments reveal is that MS has well and truly given up on this round and it doesn't look like anything is going to replace it soon. I liked the UI and a lot of things agree with me in using WP, but you just can't expect the level of functionality of an iOS or android smartphone purely from the lack of third party support.

    16. Re: They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree, for first iteration they generally produce remarkable products. However, cannot object to their tendency of not following up on the initial work. Its like they get tired of it and move to the next thing. That is their biggest problem IMH"Fanboy"O, not the luck of innovative thinking.

      Like their windows mobile systems in 90-ies, way before smartphone, or their first smart watch in 94 I believe, or Hololense today, which most likely will stop improving after this first initial remarkable product.

    17. Re:They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by rtb61 · · Score: 0

      Problem is M$ is far worse than the other companies in so many ways. Better for them to die and allow other new players in the market to compete against Google and Apple. M$ is just a rotting corpse sucking up market space due to product lock in. Currently mainly PC games and office. I for one stopped purchasing PC games 6 months ago and only use LibreOffice when it become obvious that M$ was not going to stop it's privacy invasive ways and forced software installs, done, finished, no more. They are just disgusting perves who do not deserve a place in the market.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    18. Re:They'll keep wasting billions on mobile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Xbox One has ... been outsold by the Wii U.

      No, wrong. The Wii U failed comprehensively and did not outsell the XBox One.

  7. It's the Microsoft oPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft's crazy design for a new mobile phone, one that is sure to knock Apple's iPhone out of the water!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WazA77xcf0A

  8. Same Company Had Mock Funeral for iPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Remember boyz and girlz, this is the same company that held a mock funeral for the iPhone at Windows Phone 7 launch.

    I'd take any announcement like this with a huge grain of salt.

  9. What are they going to do with them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So they will make more phones that nobody will buy. What will they do with them? Hand them out for free? Force them in bundles onto customers that buy other goods or services from Microsoft?

    1. Re:What are they going to do with them? by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      Require you to buy one in order to get security updates for Windows 10.

    2. Re:What are they going to do with them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Offering phones in family bundles might be one way; multiple SIM Cards, single bill to be paid, allow group messaging.

    3. Re:What are they going to do with them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would imply that updates for Windows 10 become optional...

    4. Re:What are they going to do with them? by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      They will as soon as people start needing them for fixes instead of avoiding them because of breakage.

    5. Re:What are they going to do with them? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Yesterday, I was at a Microsoft store, and the only phone they currently seem to sell is the HP Elite. I believe it comes in a package w/ the HP Elite book

    6. Re:What are they going to do with them? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Also, that phone had some business apps on it, like Salesforce, Sharepoint, et al

    7. Re:What are they going to do with them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One, MS isn't in a position to make that offer, as they aren't a carrier. Two, all the carriers allow that anyway, with any mix of phones you want.

    8. Re:What are they going to do with them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, read between the lines - they're going to make a portable device that doesn't resemble a phone (so a device that isn't a phone, basically).

      So.. is this actually an announcment of their next game console, the Microsoft X-Switch?

    9. Re:What are they going to do with them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forcing customers to do something is what they will do. After next Win10 update, people will need a MS phone to unlock their computer. And every application installed into a PC needs to be matched with one purchase and installation on Windows phone store.

  10. Now presenting.. by wbr1 · · Score: 1
    The Xbox Phone - with Zune technology.

    MS, stay out of markets you do not understand and are far to late an entry to get any appreciable market share.

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
    1. Re:Now presenting.. by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      The Xbox Phone - with Zune technology.

      MS, stay out of markets you do not understand and are far to late an entry to get any appreciable market share.

      Comes in Unicorn Stripe and Fluffy Candy options. With real stickiness for the keys!

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    2. Re:Now presenting.. by unixisc · · Score: 1

      A Zune phone could be cool.

    3. Re:Now presenting.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A Zune phone could be cool.

      Because it would be brown?

  11. Don't care, do not want. Not any of it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Beer flavored beer
    Whiskey flavored whiskey
    Coffee flavored coffee
    Telephones that are JUST A TELEPHONE.


    Come on, people.. smartphones are a MEME, why do you keep falling for it, over and over and over again?
    STOP THE MADNESS. Just get a plain phone that's good at being a phone and leave it at that!

    Spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars every year for the 'latest and greatest' smartphone
    Literally carrying around a surveillance device, even worse than having an ankle monitor clamped to your leg
    Being this dumb and paying for it with your own money
    Pretending you're smart
    "B-b-b-but I've got to have the latest technology or my friends will LAUGH at me!"

    1. Re:Don't care, do not want. Not any of it. by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      1. I use my phone as my communications center. I do a lot of correspondence on it, and the fact that I can get fast turnaround makes it pretty damned useful, if not outright critical, to my job.
      2. It's convenient. I can read a book, watch a movie, mindlessly surf, without having to lug out a laptop. As a device to consume media, my smartphone can't be beat.
      3. There are a million ways to be surveilled nowadays. Why not criticize people for using debit or credit cards, or going into buildings with CCTV?
      4. I have purchased three smartphones, period, and they've lasted me about a 2.5 years a piece. I just bought a new one last October and don't contemplate I'll need to replace it for at least two years.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:Don't care, do not want. Not any of it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Asshole flavored asshole.

      That's exactly what you are, asshole flavored asshole. That's what your mother tells me at least, since she cleans your crusty asshole by licking it.

    3. Re:Don't care, do not want. Not any of it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. We used to be able to do all those things before smartphones. Stop making excuses.
      2. Printed books. Watch TV at home on your own time. Meditate when you can't do those things, it's good for you.
      3. Here, I have a 'surveillance buttplug'. You going to insert that willingly, too?
      4. That's nice. Think of all the things you could have spent that money on. Maybe taking your lovely dear wife out to dinner more often.

    4. Re:Don't care, do not want. Not any of it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, your mom was telling me about all the gay porn and dragon dildos she keeps finding under your bed, care to explain that?

    5. Re:Don't care, do not want. Not any of it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      easily, she ran out of room at your house

    6. Re:Don't care, do not want. Not any of it. by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      I have a smartphone, but it seems to me that I have also bought into the hype and think perhaps trading down to a simple phone would be better. First, the voice quality on all these phones suck... Consumer Reports doesn't give a good rating to anybody.

      I do use my phone for correspondence - mostly text messaging though. It wouldn't be a problem for me to wait until I get home or to the office - if there's really an emergency, you wouldn't send email anyway, you'd call or text, both of which are available on "non" smart phones.

      I also can't imagine considering a smart phone something that "can't be beat" for consumption of media... it's something that you can carry around with you for convenience, but it's hardly the best way to consume video or books. Most web sites still suck for mobile, but there are some useful things you can do, so I'll grant you that, but I'd only watch TV or movies, or read a book, even on my "phablet," 5.5 inch screen, as a last resort.

      Not going to argue about surveillance, but how many smartphones you've bought is irrelevant - how much did each one cost you? I think about the monthly average I'm paying (amortized cost of smartphone plus service), and can't, for the life of me, think it's actually worth it. It might be for some, but I think a lot of us would be better off without one (both financially and otherwise). For the vast majority of smartphone users the return on investment is not there at all.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    7. Re:Don't care, do not want. Not any of it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL no, your mom has never been to my house, I always come over while you're at school and bang her in the butt then. I don't let skeezy whores know where I live.

    8. Re:Don't care, do not want. Not any of it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I troll quite a bit when it comes to some subjects because no matter what I say it's literally like pissing into the wind anyway; I'm raging at something too big for me to do anything about, and there are too many people out there who drink the Kool Aid they're being handed, day after day, and never give a second thought about it, because the're getting shiny things; bread and circuses, you know.

      Think about it: We're now living in a country where I've decided I have to use Tor on a daily basis, just to give Comcast my middle finger, and have some sense of privacy online. Meanwhile there are literal barriers to my using Tor for everything, so some of my private business escapes containment attempts regardless. Meanwhile I'm fully cognizant of the fact that Tor exit nodes may well be compromised in one way or another, assuming that is that they're not out-and-out honeypots for intelligence services or law enforcement. Seriously, it gets much worse and I'll start thinking about not having Internet at home at all, go back to getting paper bills in the mail and mailing paper checks to pay them, and pay cash for everything instead of using debit or credit -- knowing full-well that I'll probably end up locked in a tiny room with no windows being interrogated by some jackbooted Homeland Security thug about 'when I got radicalized' and 'what I'm planning on attacking' or somesuch bullshit.

      In all honesty, at this point in time I'd rather have my legs cut off than own a gods-be-damned smartphone.
      Adding insult to injury: Wireless companies gouge the living hell out of you for dataplans.

      If and when they can produce a smartphone that's actually secure, respects your privacy, and that you have control over, then maybe. But I don't see it happening; there's too much money to be made from surveilling your customers, and too much control you can have over your citizens when you can track everywhere and everything they're doing.

    9. Re:Don't care, do not want. Not any of it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. We used to go to sleep at sundown as well, get rid of lights!!!!
      2. less convenient
      3. I think you actually ARE a 'surveillance buttplug'
      4. maybe he's not penniless? and can afford a phone every 2.5 years AND eat out?
      5. I understand there are these new fangled 'loom' thingys as well, maybe you should throw a wooden shoe or two in them...

  12. Oh no.... by VAXcat · · Score: 1

    I've seen this happen before...they're gonna make something wildly different, and then they are going to make Windows look like it, and tell us all that we are all wrong for not liking it....

    --
    There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
  13. Insider Info by turp182 · · Score: 1

    Similar in concept to the new laptop with the thin carpet on the keys, the new phones will have 1.5" shag carpeting.

    This will serve several purposes:
    1. Make it softer in one's pocket.
    2. No need for a third party case (not even possible)
    3. A convenient towel that one will always carry around.

    --
    BlameBillCosby.com
    1. Re:Insider Info by gtall · · Score: 1

      I was thinking it would look like a very large paperclip, you could clip it on any article of clothing or body part. It will have a snappy name, like Clippy.

  14. They won't stop chasing Apple by ErichTheRed · · Score: 1

    I don't doubt there will eventually be something new on the horizon, but I think it's definitely time for them to stop trying to force their way into the phone market. While it was in full swing, it bled over into every single product they made (Windows 8 and 10, the current Office design and subscription model, etc.) For a while it seemed they were obsessed with getting access to the magic ATM that is the 30% cut on all customer purchases. That's where the Store, Windows RT and now WIndows 10 S is coming from. I can't blame them; I'll bet Apple's senior executives are swimming in bathtubs full of money and Champagne. But Microsoft is pretty much the go-to for enterprise IT, and even more so with Azure now...the recurring revenue they get could fill a few Scrooge McDuck-style money bins.

    It seems to me that unless they patent some revolutionary, ground breaking form factor, their phone business should just be allowed to die. Apple has a massive base of rabid fans who would pay $200 for an Apple branded USB cable if they sold one, and full control of the hardware/app store/ecosystem. Google has a fragmented hardware network, but they have the Play Store and access to every single shred of user interaction data. Either one of these is tough to beat -- it's going to be iOS and Android slugging it out for quite a while.

    1. Re:They won't stop chasing Apple by sd4f · · Score: 1

      The problem MS has is that they can't ignore mobile. Yes their phone business is dead, but the industry isn't. MS's core business is seriously under threat if they ignore mobile or even fail to adequately provide for it.

      For instance, the new surface laptop is a direct assault on chromebooks. Google is keen on displacing windows/microsoft, and they're going about it rather methodically. I think that the future of any company is hinged on mobile, it's just how a very large amount of people access the internet today and do things.

    2. Re:They won't stop chasing Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem MS has is that they can't ignore mobile.

      They could if they hadn't decided the bet the company on mobile, leaving the desktop OS market. Windows 7 is getting close to end of life, and they are not even working on a replacement, the choice is either getting the Surface OS or switching to a Mac or Linux.

      There are still enough Windows PCs out there (especially corporate), that they could regain their desktop market, if only they had a desktop operating system. But no, if you don't want to use Surface OS, Microsoft doesn't want your money.

    3. Re:They won't stop chasing Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem MS has is that they can't ignore mobile.

      So don't. Build some nice Android phones and tablets, load them up with Microsoft apps that are only available for $$ on the Play Store.

      Oh, that would make sense, so instead don't do any such thing and invest a few billion in things people won't buy.

  15. Phone Idea by ZipXap · · Score: 2

    They should have a phone with the screen right on the retina. Microsoft could call it the eyePhone.

    1. Re: Phone Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ChLoGLlIPTc

  16. Will be like the Zune but more unusable by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    The new Microsoft Phones will be more like the Zune, but even more unusable. You have to go down five menu levels to change the volume, and the menus will change depending on how often you use them.

    For example, let's say you get a lot of spam cell calls. If you ignore them, the new Microsoft Phone will realize you really like them, but are afraid to admit it, and make the rings even louder and add phone vibration effects so that your car crashes when someone spam calls you from India.

    Especially India.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Will be like the Zune but more unusable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your comments are pure Bullshit coming from someone who has never used a Windows Phone.

      Spam calls are easily blocked, if you ignore them, then you are an idiot.
      Phone volume is NOT controlled by the number of times called. I suspect that you like the fictitious phone calls from India, because your phone is in your pants pocket and that is the only way you can get an erection.

      Ass hat.

    2. Re: Will be like the Zune but more unusable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whooooooooosh

    3. Re:Will be like the Zune but more unusable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, please, nobody has ever used a Windows phone. They used to use them for doorstops in Seattle.

  17. Re:Insider Info (Bindy) by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    I was thinking it would look like a very large paperclip, you could clip it on any article of clothing or body part. It will have a snappy name, like Clippy.

    The new Microsoft Phone AI assistant is actually a binder clip, called Bindy. He's into BDM. Sometimes he gets a little needy. Just slap him.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  18. Goodie! by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

    I can't wait to see the next device Microsoft puts out, then abandons 6 months later because it doesn't mystically sell like hotcakes right out of the gate.

  19. Not a solution by sunderland56 · · Score: 1

    Problem with today's Windows phones: they don't look or work like Apple or Android, so nobody wants them.

    Nardella's solution: promise new phones that won't look like Apple or Android products.

    Pardon me, I'm off to short some Microsoft stock.

    1. Re:Not a solution by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Nadella more and more reminds me of the Soviet leaders of the old days. Things got worse and worse and they kept promising that it's all going to be really awesome really soon now.

      We know how this ended.

      And I have high hopes for a repetition of history!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  20. Leaked details of new Windows phone. by gfxguy · · Score: 1

    In an attempt to complete with Apple: New phone unveiled!

    --
    Stupid sexy Flanders.
  21. It's so damned simple by kfh227 · · Score: 2

    1) Make a $500 or less phone that runs full blown windows. 2) Let the phone attach to any standard USB keyboard/mouse/monitor/speakers. 3) Do not focus on hardware for games. Focus on business/internet use. 4) take my money! All they need is a form factor that can replace a laptop and a phone with one device. Crap, even at $800, I'd buy one since I don't need a $700 laptop and $300 phone anymore. Microsoft has the software to do this along with Windows specific business apps written for windows and no one else does. The longer they are to blind and to stupid to see this, the more time Apple and Google (probably Google) have to take over everything Microsoft has built over the past 30+ years.

    1. Re:It's so damned simple by swb · · Score: 1

      Crap, even at $800, I'd buy one since I don't need a $700 laptop and $300 phone anymore.

      Now you know why they won't do it. You and many, many people will stop buying Windows licenses. For a huge number of people, once the phone docks to KVM, they are completely done with buying real computers anymore. At best its a net-zero long-term business prospect for Microsoft, at worst its an awful burden because they have to keep supporting a PC-centric Windows for the remaining (1/3?) of the market that wants an actual PC.

      You can also just hear the version 1 criticism if its not x86 compatible -- "Microsoft makes dockable phone, but doesn't run its own apps -- SAD!" and the major headwind it will take at adoption because of it.

      I agree they should do it anyway, though, because it would be a great way to disrupt the entire PC market, too, but they need to convince the internal executives banking on existing unvested stock options this will benefit them.

    2. Re:It's so damned simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't you make such a phone? Then we wouldn't have to wait for Microsoft to fail at it.

    3. Re:It's so damned simple by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Damn right! I can fail at this long before MS gets a chance!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:It's so damned simple by gfxguy · · Score: 1

      I've been waiting for something like that to come along, and found one on Indiegogo (Turn Your Smartphone Into A Laptop). I don't own a compatible phone, nor do I see buying one any time soon, but I'd get the four pack for my family in a heartbeat if I did. It is compatible (in addition to Apple and Android) with some Windows phones.

      It's inevitable to me that we ultimately will have just the one device we take everywhere that can be used on it's own, but also attached to something that makes it more usable for all sorts of work (like actual code development). I could even picture eventually having a desktop that your phone plugs into that will still allow it the flexibility of upgrading graphics and sound (like the Surface Book with Nvidia... the Nvidia hardware is actually in the keyboard, so you only get the Nvidia acceleration when the tablet is attached to the keyboard).

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    5. Re:It's so damned simple by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Indiegogo currently has a Cerulean Moment, if crowdfunding is your thing.

    6. Re:It's so damned simple by sd4f · · Score: 1

      Watching the cerulean moment is like watching a failed public marriage proposal. It's just cringe, and you wonder why someone puts themselves up for such rejection.

    7. Re:It's so damned simple by coofercat · · Score: 1

      I agree :-)

      Unless a 'phone' can replace ordinary users laptops (eg. sales, finance, mgmt, marketing even), then it's nothing new and no use. A phone that can be controlled via a 'group policy' type mechanism, that stores all of it's data in 'the cloud' via a background sync mechanism (like OneDrive) and still allows the end user to do some personalisation and install a few apps (presumably from a controlled store, maybe even controlled by the company they work for).

      If it's anything less that this, then the world has no use of it. Even if it is this, the average consumer has no use of it, so it'll be a corporate sell first, and if mindset follows then the consumer market can be targeted.

      Of course, the giant committee of Microsoft will start with good ideas, and then compromise everything so that the end result is as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Those Windows desktop license revenues have to be maintained, and no new fangled mobile tech can dare to interfere with that decades old business model.

    8. Re:It's so damned simple by ausekilis · · Score: 1

      What's funny is they did most of this years ago.

      My ex worked at Intel and had brought a Wintel phone home (windows 8, low-power Atom chip). It was actually a very responsive, nice phone. Being x86 it could have handled a lot of different tasks. Unfortunately it didn't quite have the battery life it needed, the form factor was too blocky (think Nokia with less rounded edges) and plagued by Windows CE/8 Mobile (~5 years ago).

      I would have bought one if the kinks had been worked out. And I had one of the old windows CE phones that was painful to use. The one that you had to open up task manager periodically to kill all the background apps eating up the battery.

  22. Uh, doesn't it say the opposite of the headline? by Kjella · · Score: 1

    If Microsoft is looking for the "next change in form and function" wouldn't that imply it's something entirely different than a phone? I mean phones have been rectangular-ish slabs for the last ~20 years. Multi-touch smart phones is now ~10 years old. None of those concepts seem likely to change. Maybe you can invent something totally different that can sorta function like a phone just like a PC with a headset, but nobody's going to call that a phone. In fact, the name is pretty much an anachronism by now because people do everything else but call with it. I just checked here in Norway and the 2016 figures is that 89% now have a smartphone. In a few more years "smartphone" will be almost as implied as "cell phone" unless you say otherwise.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  23. Coming Soon by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

    Retinal display and augment reality contact lenses (with a special security feature that releases cyanide into the eye of anyone the NSA dislikes.)

  24. Re:Uh, doesn't it say the opposite of the headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Exactly!

    The next phone (not phone) should be a round cylinder with no external connectors or display at all. Blue-tooth headphones and wireless charging. It can be encased in a soft factory sealed rubbery protective outer coating for easy insertion up one's anus. It can vibrate when you get a text message, or a Microsoft update, or your monthly bill, or a virus.

    Then Microsoft will really be able to connect with their customers!

  25. Mixed metaphors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do hotcakes have hotcake jockeys when they're raced?

    Just kidding. I already know the answer.

  26. Another... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh wow...another Microsoft Kin.

  27. Oh look, hot air! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Not sure if it's a markedroid speaking or vaporware.

    Probably both.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  28. Re:Uh, doesn't it say the opposite of the headline by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    That would then be a text massage, wouldn't it?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  29. Re:Uh, doesn't it say the opposite of the headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With its last gasp in the phone sector, Siemens released four phone models with a non-standard form factor (at the time).

    That idea went nowhere, and was barely noticed, and I see no reason why it should or could go anywhere today.

  30. Jabberwocky by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tomorrow's phones at yesterday's prices.

    1. Re:Jabberwocky by sd4f · · Score: 1

      Actually that mightn't be a bad thing. The last lot of flagship phone prices have seriously gone up significantly.

  31. kill, steal, control - lather rinse repeat by LesserWeevil · · Score: 3

    If MS can't kill it, steal it or control it, they're not interested in it. This is what results from a business model that disdains the new and seeks to be the late comer with overwhelming resources. Giving people what someone else is already providing seems a sucky future. Good luck keeping up with Apple and Google, Mr Nadella.

  32. M$ : always relevant by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    I can hardly wait for the marketing blitz with that guy from the Seinfeld show. And the instructional video with Jennifer Anniston.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  33. What's he on about? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    What's the silly bugger on about? Are they going to be triangular or something?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  34. Re:Uh, doesn't it say the opposite of the headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are a lot of new things out there that is nearing consumer market, and if MS can give one or few of those a slight push, they can get an appealing device.

    Some of the potential new technologies for next gen phones they can pursue:
    - proper continuum so you can use it as PC with some external monitor;
    - flat lenses to give a phone enormous optical zoom capabilities;
    - light stream cameras to allow post capture focus, perspective change, kind of 3D, etc.;
    - flexible, rollable, collapsible screens;
    - holographic projections;
    - cloud processing, so phone is kind of interface with all computations happening in cloud;
    - give phone new sensors to give it medical diagnostic capabilities (startrack tricorder style);
    - true wireless charging (meters away);
    - AR / VR capacities;
    - and others;

  35. So in other words... by slack_justyb · · Score: 1

    so original and appealing that OEMs won't be able to resist tagging along

    We have no fucking idea what we're going to do next, but we're totally playing it off like shits about to get real. Please, buy our phones! We will literally give you an HP laptop and a Windows Phone if you just promise to let everyone you know, know that you are using a Windows phone and you, like this guy, are really enjoying the phone and think it is hip. Why are you all not buying our phones!!?

  36. Pinky swear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We're TOTALLY going to support this one going forward, and not slowly removing OS features like the previous generation. It was just a prank, bro!

  37. Edge on Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I may be in the minority here, but I'd like to see Microsoft open source Edge, and then put some money into making it work properly on a wide variety of Linux distros.