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Google Searches Show That America Is Full of Racist and Selfish People (vox.com)

gollum123 shares a report by Sean Illing via Vox: "Google is a digital truth serum," Seth Stephens-Davidowitz, author of Everybody Lies , told me in a recent interview. "People tell Google things that they don't tell to possibly anybody else, things they might not tell to family members, friends, anonymous surveys, or doctors." Stephens-Davidowitz was working on a PhD in economics at Harvard when he became obsessed with Google Trends, a tool that tracks how frequently searches are made in a given area over a given time period. As a barometer of our national consciousness, Google is as accurate (and predictive) as it gets. In 2016, when the Republican primaries were just beginning, most pundits and pollsters did not believe Trump could win. After all, he had insulted veterans, women, minorities, and countless other constituencies. But Stephens-Davidowitz saw clues in his Google research that suggested Trump was far more serious than many supposed. Searches containing racist epithets and jokes were spiking across the country during Trump's primary run, and not merely in the South but in upstate New York, Western Pennsylvania, Eastern Ohio, rural Illinois, West Virginia, and industrial Michigan.

424 of 709 comments (clear)

  1. No kidding... by irving47 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Partisan politics brings out the worst in people? Who'd have thought?

    --
    I had a sucky sig.
    1. Re:No kidding... by wickerprints · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think the point is not that politics brings out the worst in people, but rather, that people exhibit a much greater degree of bigotry and tribalism than they would rather admit. The results of this election, and the fact that the more Trump's lies are exposed, the more his supporters angrily make excuses for his behavior. In fact, this is precisely the kind of tactic that racists, xenophobes, bigots, and hypocrites are particularly adept at, since it is the only way they can rationalize the destructiveness of their distorted and regressive worldview: that is to say, they blame everyone else for their own inadequacies by projecting onto others the very transgressions they are guilty of. That's why they complain about their freedom of speech being curtailed; why they attack LGBT people and legal protections as an affront to what they perceive is their right to discriminate; why they still yell and kick and scream about the election months after the fact. For these people, it isn't enough to impose their bigoted will upon the rest of civilized society. It is only enough when they achieve their end goal of killing or converting those who disagree. In other words, it is no different than the radical terrorism espoused by the likes of the so-called "Islamic State." This is the very definition of primitive tribalism taken to the ideological extreme.

      For all the lessons that our own human history should have taught us, we have made remarkably little progress in addressing such diseased thinking.

    2. Re:No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So according to your theory, the reason Republicans complain about having their freedom of speech curtailed by left-wing thugs is because they can't compete in the marketplace of ideas?

      Somehow the need for left-wing thugs to prevent Republicans from speaking seems more of an indication of the opposite...

    3. Re:No kidding... by s.petry · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How do they count people as "racist" exactly? If I say "he is Japanese" is that counted? Now change Japanese to any Race/Ethnicity/Religion that you like. Is that counted as a "racist"? How about if you search for "Japanese fighter"?

      Google may give some information, but how did his study account for the Streisand effect? How many people would have searched for various groups if not for the media playing the guilt by association game with people they want to smear? An easy example would be Milo Yiannopoulos. (Not defending everything he says or does, but the associations with being a homophobe and racist were used as part of the smear campaign.)

      Recognizing we are different is not in and of itself racist, but a recognition of fact. It is how we treat each other based on our differences that makes a person racist. Today compared to when I was younger, racism is not worse. I'd say in some demographics it's much better, and in others much worse, but overall the same.

      Well known tyrannical strategy at play: Keep the masses pitted against each other and you can do whatever you wish.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    4. Re:No kidding... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Partisan politics brings out the worst in people?

      Or perhaps the worst in people brings out partisan politics.

    5. Re:No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "why they still yell and kick and scream about the election months after the fact"
      This description perfectly describes all those opposed to Trump.

      "right to discriminate"
      There is no law against individual discrimination. The laws against discrimination apply to the government, educational institutions, places of employment,areas and other places where racism can be challenged by individuals in court.

      "LGBT people and legal protections"
      The LGBT issue effects a tiny percentage of the population. Blowing up this issue into an extinction level event shows how warped the proles are becoming. The majority including myself do not give a shit about this LGBT issue. I am not against anything the LGBT movement is doing but frankly there are more important issues playing out today.

      All of your complaints describe the Democrats and the sore losers of the last election. They have went after the Electoral College but only because they lost the election. If Clinton had one this would have never been mentioned. And take a trip to Berkley and take a good look at those who support free speech but only if it supports their particular cause. If you don't agree with them the riots in the street breakout while blocking someone from exercising their Freedom of Speech. The people ruining everything today are the hardline leftist and hardline right. These two groups are tiny but the Internet amplifies their political screeds and will most likely be the first ones shot in the approaching civil war. These hardline ass hats bleat and moan about this or that while acting like a bunch of morons. You know why Hillary lost? Take a good look at the far left and ask yourself would you want any of these fuckers to succeed in their efforts? They can take full credit of electing Trump because their antics are so bad that even Trump looked like the better choice.

    6. Re:No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      [...] and the fact that the more Trump's lies are exposed, the more his supporters angrily make excuses for his behavior

      Just have a look at the posts so far from this story, making excuses or belittling the results.

      You just have to speak to a few Americans to know this headline is true. Pretension and expectation is extremely strong in US culture.

    7. Re:No kidding... by lucm · · Score: 3, Interesting

      For all the lessons that our own human history should have taught us, we have made remarkably little progress in addressing such diseased thinking.

      The real diseased thinking is what you just posted. Bundle all the shit you can think of under "Trump" and associate the conservatives with that whole bag of vomit. The sad part is that you probably are convinced of at least some of this bullshit.

      You are the true face of hate.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    8. Re:No kidding... by wickerprints · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You mistakenly presume that there is any sort of government censorship of Republicans by "left-wing thugs" to begin with. This claim does not stand up to even the most basic form of scrutiny, considering that the GOP holds power in both the executive and legislative branches of government, not to mention the judicial which now leans conservative; so if we are to talk realistically about what you perceive to be an infringement of your right to call those who disagree with you "left-wing thugs," your own post is clear proof to the contrary. But perhaps, like many of your ilk, you are too ignorant to understand the difference between someone who disagrees with the kind of ill-informed, uneducated, right-wing vitriol that you spew, and someone who actually imposes a legal order against your ability to speak out in this "marketplace of ideas" that you vaguely refer to.

      Your post quintessentially exemplifies the original point I made. As your political class has never historically had their actual constitutional freedoms curtailed by law, perhaps a more charitable observer would forgive you for such a spectacularly persistent inability to recognize whether the government is actually oppressing you. But I am not so inclined given the extensive and demonstrably odious historical record of actual abuses that you racists and bigots have been guilty of committing, all while proclaiming to be the victims of "political correctness" and "left-wing thugs."

    9. Re: No kidding... by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Can we get a source for all those BS claims?

      (Meanwhile all new racism, sexism and identity politics come from the socialists because they have made that their thing to rule over to.)

    10. Re:No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The goal is to make everybody feel "racist" and guilty about it, then use that to manipulate you to their will.

      Most people I know see through this bullshit already, having seen the racism card overplayed so many times. Congrats, losers, you've made the term impotent and nobody cares anymore. Throw the racism accusations out all you want, we'll just laugh at you.

    11. Re:No kidding... by rholtzjr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Soooo, ranting, raving, screaming, and name calling is going to solve everything. Calling everybody who disagrees with you an ignorant savage it going to compel them to see your way? Really? Oh please enlighten us o' wise one for we are just too stupid to see the light. SERIOUSLY?

      Get used to it, there are people who do not believe in the same ideals as you. How you deal with it defines the person you are. And right now, you seem like another progressive that has succumbed to the Trump Derangement Syndrome.

      Prove everyone wrong by providing rational discourse and not just using every buzzword that has been used to describe him for the last year.

    12. Re:No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Have not heard about too many right-wing riots where they were trying to silence a left-wing speaker.. There does seem to be more violent left-wing thugs than there are right-wing thugs... And you sound like one of those.

      But overall, there are too many idiots on both sides that refuse to listen to the other sides ideas just because they are the "enemy" even if that specific idea might actually be something they could agree to. I would like to have politics revolve around facts, based on real unbiased studies, instead of what currently is the most popular view-point.

    13. Re: No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nowhere in the second amendment states that you personally have the right to own an automatic rifle. It only specifies militia, and only specifies bearing arms. The level of armament is not specified. An automatic rifle isn't going to protect you from a drone strike anyway, the purpose of the amendment is no longer applicable against the current capabilities of the military.

    14. Re: No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "The majority including myself do not give a shit about this LGBT issue. [...]"

      This is self-evidently false. If nobody cares, why is so much effort put into fighting LGBT equality? If nobody cared, when we asked for marriage equality, the response would have been, "yeah sure, whatever, we don't care".

    15. Re:No kidding... by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Telling racial jokes or using racial epitaphs don't necessarily make someone a racist (as the article seems to presume). It could just mean you have a dark sense of humor, or just use humor to make a social statement.

      Were Chris Rock and Richard Pryor racists because they told black jokes and used the evil "N word"? Is someone a racist when they make a racial joke ironically? Are all of Mel Brooks movies racist and hateful because they included holocaust, racial, and Jewish jokes?

      I do know one thing for sure, though. If you go looking for racism and bigotry, you'll always find it--whether it's actually there or not.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    16. Re:No kidding... by Mosquito+Bites · · Score: 1

      How do they count people as "racist" exactly? If I say "he is Japanese" is that counted? Now change Japanese to any Race/Ethnicity/Religion that you like. Is that counted as a "racist"?

      ... and who can really claim that s/he is NOT selfish?

    17. Re:No kidding... by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 1

      in some demographics it's much better, and in others much worse

      I like the use of "demographics" here. It is spot on. Comments like this are not about about race, they is* about culture, and some cultures suck.

      discuss various cultures among yourselves...

      * yeah, I did that on purpose, whose has racist thinking now?

      --
      This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    18. Re:No kidding... by war4peace · · Score: 1, Interesting

      An easy example would be Milo Yiannopoulos. (Not defending everything he says or does, but the associations with being a homophobe and racist were used as part of the smear campaign.)

      I quite like the guy, simply because he's politically incorrect.
      And this ties very well into the subject at hand. First I'd like to say that not "America" but the whole world is full of racist and selfish people. It's the nature of human beings, nature which is pushed down and frowned upon by contemporary political correctness. Speaking of which, the term originates from USSR, where it had a very different meaning: you were politically correct if your discourse was in line with the communist propaganda.
      Anyways... bigotry exists because contemporary society imposes it. I recently was talking to some international colleagues (we were a group of people) and one of my Romanian colleagues said he dislikes Asian people because "their food stinks". He was referring to the strong odor of some meals that his Asian neighbors were making. a German colleague strongly reacted to this, saying that the statement was "offensive" - it contradicted his uprising which forced him to "respect" other cultures, even to the point where the byproducts of those cultures was directly affecting him in a negative way. Later, in a more informal setting (beer, later in the evening), the German guy confessed that indeed the Romanian colleague was right and that he agreed with him, but still it was not something that should have been said out loud.
      The problem is such statements ("I dislike Asians because their food smells") are not racist. They're only made racist because society says "thou shalt love everyone regardless of how they affect your life" which is bullshit. Because of that limitation, people no longer feel comfortable expressing their opinions, which leads to "surprise Trump" elections, for example: the silent majority exists because they're only comfortable with being silent - otherwise they're categorized as "politically incorrect" by everyone, including friends and family.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    19. Re: No kidding... by koomba · · Score: 1

      Not sure if you RTFA or not, but I'm guessing probably not given your question. I'm not disagreeing with your first paragraph when you say just searching "is he *race*" isn't necessarily a sign of any racism. But the guy in the article is talking about much more, IMO, persuasive examples. For example, he talks about how after Obama was elected in 2008, 1% of all searches that contained the word "Obama" also included the search terms "KKK" or "n*gger." And he also mentioned searches for Stormfront and other white power/nationalist sites increased. I would consider that pretty unambiguous. He also mentions he was surprised about how many searches there are for racist jokes, particularly about blacks. In regard to more recently, especially since the 2016 election season and now how there has been a rise in Muslim hating searches, specifically "i hate Muslims," "Muslims are evil" and "kill Muslims." So yeah, while there is plenty of room for debate for what is bigotry and what isn't, that's not the focus of this guys research or claims. He's talking only about pretty blatant hate and bigotry, and even in that narrower focus, he stressed his surprise at how prevalent it really is.

    20. Re:No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Maybe they counted the instances of "nigga". Check the lyrics of the top 20 rap songs and you'll get generous amounts of it.

      Indexing tweets also? Why you'll find the word elegantly used in plenty of tweets from african american individuals. Same with their instagram posts but not sure if those are indexed.

      Are they also looking for instances of "white people" or "crackas"?

      I agree that using certain terms doesn't mean someone is racist. Unfortunately name calling is the tool of the left and that makes the definitions a little confusing.

    21. Re: No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I disagree pretty strongly with this. I don't agree with your interpretation of the second amendment.

      The second amendment states the following: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Effectively, the second amendment is saying that because a well regulated militia is needed to maintain the security of a free state, the government cannot infringe upon the right of the people to keep and bear arms. The second amendment isn't restricting the right to well regulated militias, but rather citing the need for militia as a reason to allow people to keep and bear arms. That is not a limit upon who can keep and bear arms.

      Your second claim is that the second amendment is not an individual right, but a collective right. I presume you either mean the collective right of a militia or society in general. However, let's look at other amendments that specifically refer to "the people."

      Let's start with the first amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." It is clear that any individual has the right to participate in a peaceful assembly. That part of the first amendment is giving you the right to engage in peaceful demonstrations. This is an individual right to protest peacefully.

      Then there's the fourth amendment: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." This only makes sense if there is an individual right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. Each person has that right. No other interpretation makes sense.

      The ninth amendment says: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." This clearly must include the rights of individuals not explicitly stated in the Constitution, not just collective rights or those of militias.

      The use of the words "the people" does not make sense as only a collective right. In the context of the rest of the Bill of Rights, it's an individual right. There is an individual right to keep and bear arms.

      As for the use of guns against modern military forces, the second amendment doesn't specify what types of arms are permitted. It is not restricted to guns, though that's certainly what most of the debate revolves around today. It's likely that even when the second amendment was written, it wasn't intended specifically to refer to guns.

      The reason for the second amendment was that many of the founding fathers believed that standing armies were contrary to freedom and opposed their existence. However, they recognized the need to rapidly organize and defend the United States from attack. That's why they use maintaining the security of a free state as the justification for the right to keep and bear arms. Specifically, militia were expected to defend the United States from attack until an army could be organized to repel the attack. The militia would need to be well-armed in order to be effective. In that era, that would also include weapons like cannons.

      There's no reason to limit the second amendment to guns. The Constitution doesn't restrict the people to keeping and bearing guns. There can be reasonable restrictions on arms, because the Bill of Rights isn't intended to promote anarchy. However, any restrictions need to be based on a compelling state interest and, generally when involving the Bill of Rights, should be the least restrictive way to accomplish the compelling stat

    22. Re: No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Please keep making excuses for Muslims killing gays, raping women, killing nonbelievers and your genderqueer transtrender antifa riot causing ilk.

      I'm sure nothing shows just how progressive you are, than assaulting people and burning society to the ground.

    23. Re:No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >abuses that you racists and bigots have been guilty of committing

      I'm gonna stop you right there. Actual racism (discriminitory practices, unequal pay, violence, etc) has been going down steadily since as long as I can remember. The world was way more racist just a couple decades ago. I remember. I think it's funny how voices from the leadership suddenly began reminding us how bad this group and that group and every other group have things. They began reminding us how "White Males" (now a derogatory term) keep everyone else down. How they're racist and misogynist and the lowest scum to walk the Earth. How they don't deserve to even have an opinion, much less state one. I think it was a plan to divide and conquer the country. The newly-reminded-to-be-oppressed groups would buy in, and lots of white males would to, to attempt to appease others and in so doing, buck the label from themselves. When they want to push votes around, they can release more propaganda and swing votes with whatever special "community" they want. The scariest part of is, part of me knows that as I question the labels and hypocrisy, the fact that everyone who will weigh in will confirm my suspicions by labeling me a racist misogynist. Those who agree with me will not weigh in for fear of earning the label themselves.

    24. Re:No kidding... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      * yeah, I did that on purpose, whose has racist thinking now?

      I don't get it - aren't hillbillies white?

      Yes that was on purpose too. It's kind of cute seeing Americans going on about poor usage of the English language.

    25. Re:No kidding... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I quite like the guy, simply because he's politically incorrect.

      Have some kids and then think about what that guy is suggesting is OK to be done to them and you'll get some understanding of how incorrect he is and why people don't like him.

    26. Re:No kidding... by Powercntrl · · Score: 1

      You mistakenly presume that there is any sort of government censorship of Republicans by "left-wing thugs" to begin with.

      Don't know about government censorship, but their certainly is censorship on Slashdot by Trump supporters with mod points and an axe to grind. Just about everything I post which is critical of Trump gets modded down. It's like these people are simply incapable of having a debate.

      --

      ---
      DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
    27. Re:No kidding... by aevan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because they are hypocrites that only read headlines and internet tabloids? (Not that he wasn't a sensationalist either that was loose with opinion).

      But a gay jew man that has an extreme preference for black partners, talking about his childhood situation... is hardly a 'homophobic racist promoting pedophilia' like he's portrayed - but that's okay because he's 'Literally a Nazi'. Meanwhile a certain lesbian 'heroine of the year' is lauded, though in her book she talks about grooming and effectively raping her sister, and supported blissfully unironically by those that have on record said the exact thing Milo is being damned by them.

      Cognitive Dissonance should be the word of the year.

      ----

      Aside: there are some of us who type pure random shit into google just because we know they love to overanalyse everything to try and figure out the user. Between that, random searches on (mis)heard song lyrics, movie quotes, crap from news and so forth? Not sure the validity of any data you could mine based on searches.

    28. Re:No kidding... by ilguido · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The results of this election, and the fact that the more Trump's lies are exposed, the more his supporters angrily make excuses for his behavior.

      Funnily enough, H Clinton's supporters get blamed for the same reason. In a better world the presidential race would have been Sanders vs Kasich, but it seems "That America Is Full of Racist and Selfish People".

    29. Re:No kidding... by TapeCutter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm no fan of Trump but as to TFA - why is it assumed that people who search for racist memes must be racists? There's a guy here in Australia who boasts about being the most popular political commentator in the country and offers up the number of visitors to his blog as proof. My personal observation is that at least half the people who comment on his site do so to criticize his overt racism. It's well known that a strongly polarised audience/electorate/workforce is the hallmark of a sociopath in a position of power, both sides of the divide are going to be busy searching for jokes/insults that support their views.

      There are a number of skeptic sites on FB and elsewhere that regularly post all manner of nonsense for their audience to debunk. It's a moral conundrum for them since posting/sharing the article inevitably funnels advertising dollars to the people who least deserve it based on the number of "hits", which totally ignores the intent of those hits. Giving advertisers the ability to fine tune programmatic advertising is the one place where social media companies could theoretically make a huge difference. However the Facebooks and Googles of this world constantly deflect away from their failings and point towards some kind of half arsed censorship or trust ranking to avoid losing revenue from the type of people that most advertisers wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. .

      Having said that there are some recent signs of hope, a well organised campaign to inform advertisers their programmatic ads were appearing on Breitbart has seen a 90% reduction in advertising revenue for Breitbart in the past six months.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    30. Re:No kidding... by Powercntrl · · Score: 4, Interesting

      the silent majority

      ...is a misnomer.

      63 million votes were cast for Trump
      73.5 million people voted against Trump
      approximately 90 million eligible Americans - did not vote at all.

      The real "silent majority" didn't bother to vote.

      source

      --

      ---
      DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
    31. Re:No kidding... by superwiz · · Score: 1

      You might be onto something with song lyrics. As I mentioned in another post, I wasn't able to find a single country radio station on a recent drive through all of Ohio. At least 1/3 of the stations played rap though.

      --
      Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    32. Re: No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      It's too bad the founding fathers weren't educated because goddamn that's a really badly phrased sentence.

      Sure,"the people" refers to general population... But the issue now is: does anyone who chooses to have a gun automatically part of a militia? If so, the commanding officer (government official) should be able to choose to disallow actual gun usage (possession is fine) unless instructed to by the commanding officer.

    33. Re:No kidding... by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Telling racial jokes or using racial epitaphs don't necessarily make someone a racist

      Also, "racial insensitivity", one supposedly "racist" act of any kind, or making a story or meme depicting someone in a racially-stereotyped role such as a gender X member of race Y good at sport Z or loving to Q, does not in itself mean someone is racist.

    34. Re:No kidding... by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      More than that, there's probably some moral licensing going on.

      The USA elected a black guy. This proves that Americans aren't racist assholes.This absolves America from the moral culpability of subsequently voting for a racist and sexist asshole.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    35. Re:No kidding... by cold+fjord · · Score: 2, Informative

      Despite your seemingly "reasonable" tone and content your post is a load of rubbish. Lets look in detail.

      You mistakenly presume that there is any sort of government censorship of Republicans by "left-wing thugs" to begin with. This claim does not stand up to even the most basic form of scrutiny....

      That is a straw man. He didn't write that it was government censorship, but rather "left-wing thugs" shutting down speech. That is true. Here are just two of many recent examples:

      College Protestors Send Professor to the ER
      Conspiring to stifle free speech is a crime: Glenn Reynolds

      ...not to mention the judicial which now leans conservative;

      Really? The judiciary "leans conservative" so soon after 8 years of Obama appointments? Of the last 24 years Democrats have had 16 years of making appointments and 8 years of obstructing Republican appointments as best they could. Trump has made 1 (one) judicial appointment that was seated only a few weeks ago. If the judiciary "now leans conservative" how are Trump's travel ban executive orders being challenged in such unprecedented ways and on what are essentially frivolous grounds? You don't know what you are talking about.

      so if we are to talk realistically about what you perceive to be an infringement of your right to call those who disagree with you "left-wing thugs," your own post is clear proof to the contrary.

      This is more nonsense. He isn't complaining about being unable to "call those who disagree with you "left-wing thugs," he is complaining about the left-wing thugs (previously cited) who are using violence to shut down speakers invited by or speaking from a conservative or Republicans viewpoint.

      But perhaps, like many of your ilk, you are too ignorant to understand the difference between someone who disagrees with the kind of ill-informed, uneducated, right-wing vitriol that you spew, and someone who actually imposes a legal order against your ability to speak out in this "marketplace of ideas" that you vaguely refer to.

      You appear to be misinformed. Mobs wielding baseball bats and fire bombs are not "someone who actually imposes a legal order against your ability to speak out." As to the question of who is "spewing" vitriol, I suggest a comparison of your response and the post you relied to. You have things backwards.

      As your political class has never historically had their actual constitutional freedoms curtailed by law, perhaps a more charitable observer would forgive you for such a spectacularly persistent inability to recognize whether the government is actually oppressing you.

      Oh absolutely! Who could possibly notice the infringement of rights .. which never happen?
      Police Can Seize And Sell Assets Even When The Owner Broke No Law
      Top Ten Worst Abuses of Eminent Domain Spotlighted in New Report
      Wichita State University: Student Government Denies Recognition to Libertarian Group Because It Defends Free Speech
      Part of D.C. Gun Carry Law Struck Down in Federal Court

      But perhaps, like many of your ilk, you are too ignorant to understand the difference between someo

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    36. Re: No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You pick apart the wording of an ancient document, and attempt to apply what you believe they meant to a world that bears very little resemblance to the one which the document was written, You extrapolate 'bearing arms' to owning whatever catastrophically powerful weapons that you care to list.

      It's insane. The price is paid every day in your country in blood.

    37. Re:No kidding... by Tranzistors · · Score: 1

      I do know one thing for sure, though. If you go looking for racism and bigotry, you'll always find it--whether it's actually there or not.

      Maybe it's easy to find racism and bigotry everywhere, because it actually is everywhere? (I assumed you used “everywhere” as a hyperbole).

    38. Re:No kidding... by nasch · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem is such statements ("I dislike Asians because their food smells") are not racist.

      "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

      Sounds like textbook racism to me. The fact that there's a tangible reason for the prejudice doesn't make it not racist. If he had just said "I don't like the smell of Asian food" that would be fine, but "I dislike Asian people because their food smells" is racist. This person would hold a negative prejudice toward someone of Asian descent who grew up in some other part of the world and didn't cook Asian food.

    39. Re:No kidding... by nasch · · Score: 1

      You really think the tiny, tiny number of people who purposely enter random search terms are going to have any effect on the trends of the billions of searches on Google every day? And so what if people search for song lyrics? What effect will that have on any correlations this guy or anyone else is studying?

    40. Re:No kidding... by silentcoder · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know... there is also a law that prohibits you from owning a nuclear misile. Nukes are, in fact, arms. Do you feel this law is okay ? Should you have the right to own private nukes for deer hunting ?
      If not - why is THAT a legitimate restriction on the right to bear arms but a fully automatic is not ?

      Where do you think the line should be drawn - and why should I trust YOUR line over anybody else's ?

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    41. Re:No kidding... by silentcoder · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Frivolous grounds ?
      The fourth circuit blocked it on first ammendment grounds (the 9th deliberately avoided that, because it didn't NEED to use it and judges have a standard modus of using the lowest bar for a decision - that's a freedom preserver, don't accuse the government of violating the constitution if you can block the same order on a lesser violation).
      But that fourth circuit matters here. Your whole post is about how, supposedly, YOUR first ammendment rights are under assault (because private citizens dare excercise their free speech in conflict with yours) - yet when the court protects first ammendment rights you call it 'frivolous grounds'.

      Is it only a valid right when rightwingers or white people or Christian's first ammendment rights are at stake ? Does it become 'frivolous' based on whose freedom of religion is being assaulted ?

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    42. Re:No kidding... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >This description perfectly describes all those opposed to Trump.
      Not nearly as well as it describes Trump himself.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    43. Re:No kidding... by jandersen · · Score: 1

      How do they count people as "racist" exactly? If I say "he is Japanese" is that counted? Now change Japanese to any Race/Ethnicity/Religion that you like. Is that counted as a "racist"? How about if you search for "Japanese fighter"?

      Are you trying to convince us that since it isn't racist to refer to somebody's nationality, it is also not racist to call black people 'Sambo' or to refer to Jews as 'Yids'? And perhaps, if you take the words simply as words, they are only sounds - the racism is in the attitude you have to other people. However, since words only have meaning in a context, and some words have mostly been used to express racist views, theyd are certainly now widely perceived as racist slurs.

      I think, from a research point of view, it is perfectly valid to use certain words as a proxy for covert (or overt) racism: If a person doesn't feel wrong, somehow, about using these words, they are probably either out of contact with what the common views are on these words, or they are racist: they feel good about using words that are meant to insult certain groups of people. In this day and age, it seems unlikely that most people wouldn't know that certain words are regarded as racist, and in a statistical study, that is good enough, since the size of the dataset should even out any uncertainties.

      Well known tyrannical strategy at play: Keep the masses pitted against each other and you can do whatever you wish.

      Here, I think you are playing the conspiracy card: "They", that mysterious and shady entity that seems to be so powerful, are manipulating people's minds again. It is simply public opinion: the more or less agreed, average set of what most people feel is right(-sh). Most people simply don't want to be confronted with unpleasant, loud-mouthed and small-minded prejudices all the time; that's the so-called "censorship" that some people keep complaining about. They don't think the issues you go on about are relevant - they see it as SPAM, basically, and just want you to stop, so they can concentrate on the issues that are important to them.

      As for who keeps the radicals (what you call 'masses') pitted against each other: it's not my impression that they need any encouragement to do that - most radical groups are spoiling for a fight, and talking about 'masses' is simply wishful thinking on their part, as they are in fact very small minorities.

    44. Re: No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "The majority including myself do not give a shit about this LGBT issue. [...]"

      This is self-evidently false. If nobody cares, why is so much effort put into fighting LGBT equality? If nobody cared, when we asked for marriage equality, the response would have been, "yeah sure, whatever, we don't care".

      The thing that has always creeped me out about people who are very conservatives and really religious is their obsession with what gay people and even straight people do in their bedrooms and the uncontrollable urge they have to regulate other peoples sex lives. I am a 'librul', probably what you Americans would call a communist, although where I come from I'm a pretty moderate social democrat and I quite frankly do not waste much time on thinking about what evangelical christian conservatives do in their bedrooms and whether it happens (as urban legend would have it) only on church approved days in a church approved position through a hole in a sheet because its it's CREEPY!, creepy creepy creepy ...

    45. Re:No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Huh? "the leadership"? who's that?

      I think nearly everyone would argue that extreme examples of misogyny and racism have gone down, but what we're left with are the "soft" sort of misogyny and racism that pervade our culture, e.g. in hollywood, white washing films, people of color being relegated to the role of sidekick or to stereotypes ("how well can you do an Indian accent?"), women being considered uncastable once they hit a certain age.

      Or still in day-to-day life, where the internet trolls are way more toxic to women and minorities than to men, or when men speak over women like it's nothing (https://www.forbes.com/sites/womensmedia/2017/01/03/gal-interrupted-why-men-interrupt-women-and-how-to-avert-this-in-the-workplace/#6427709017c3), or how job applicants with black sounding names are less likely to get a callback (http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/15/jalen-ross/black-name-resume-50-percent-less-likely-get-respo/). Assuming you're a white dude, we're just not on the receiving end of societal crap as often as others.

      So I wouldn't label you a racist misogynist, but I'd consider whether soft, everyday racism and misogyny is something we should readily accept in our society, even if harder version of both are much rarer.

    46. Re:No kidding... by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      its my right as an american to turn bambi into a black cloud of smoke.

    47. Re:No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The goal is to make WHITE PEOPLE feel "racist" and guilty about it, then use that to manipulate them to their will.

      Fixed that for you.

    48. Re: No kidding... by Nephandus · · Score: 2

      Ancient? You think the Constitution is over a thousand years old?

      --
      "A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head."
    49. Re:No kidding... by Highdude702 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      funny cause i tend to see almost anything anti-trump modded to +5 insightful here. what slashdot do you frequent?

    50. Re:No kidding... by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      violence and padlocks are not "speech"

    51. Re:No kidding... by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Did you actually see the way Obama was treated by the right wing media, including burning and hanging effigies? The bizarre rumors of evil, birther drivel etc?
      Racism writ large right there.

    52. Re:No kidding... by Z80a · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's no surprise, given the candidates that were given as a choice.

    53. Re:No kidding... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      That doesn't actually answer any of the questions I asked...

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    54. Re:No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      or you could just lower your standards for what constitutes a racist, then you can point at everywhere and call anyone a Nazi if they dare to disagree with you.

      And we all know Nazi's don't have any rights, they are all subhuman, so you can issue death threats to them, burn down their homes, assault them in the streets, and anyone that says otherwise is a Nazi sympathizer and also subhuman.

      You know what the worst part is to me, you little SJW shitheads aren't doing this to make the world a better place, you're doing it because you lack purpose.
      You needed to invent a villain so you can justify playing the hero, so that you can show everyone around you how soooooo much better you are than them.

      Personally, I hope you do find the wrong bear to poke, and it eats your face.

    55. Re:No kidding... by Highdude702 · · Score: 2

      Tha answer is that the militia be it a group or individual needs to have strong enough arms to revolt against a malicious government. So theoretically we should be allowed armed drones at the very least. If not small nukes.

    56. Re: No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Church approved through a hole in a sheet? What are they up to? Roleplay? "Woooo I am the holy ghost"

    57. Re:No kidding... by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Partisan politics brings up the Us vs Them instinct in us. I know that I am not bad, so the other people who don't see things as I do must be.
      This is a often a reflexive emotional responce to a disagreement. Normally as enlightened individuals we can stop our primitive brain and try to reason out why the other side may have an issue.
      This time Trump used this emotional responce than continually enforced it. For the population who are undereducated and tend to not practice their minds this bombardment of they are bad flooded their heads, and not giving time for the intellect to sit and process the info. Hillary Clinton is bad because her opponent confirmed that I was good and was on his side.
      Minority groups in general didn't care for Trumps agenda so they were also the bad guy. So if the minority groups are bad guys then it is OK to insult them and hurt them, because they are part of the group of people who are trying to hurt us.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    58. Re:No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      women being considered uncastable once they hit a certain age.

      Ironically that is something that Hollywood are imposing on themself, rather than a demand from the public. Funny how that is allowed to happen from the most leftist place on the planet where you can't even get a job if you dare to mention that you lean to the right.

    59. Re:No kidding... by silentcoder · · Score: 2

      So your personal belief is that it's wrong for the law to ban personal nuclear weapons ?

      Okay - so why is the NRA never making that argument ?

      Because it's rather tempting to conclude the answer is: "Because they NRA only REALLY represent gun sellers - and there are no big, commercial nuclear misile makers who are lobbying for sales to the public"

      The fact that there is absolutely no possible way you can conceivably use a nuclear weapon in a legal manner anyway (you WILL kill innocent bystanders no matter what) ... makes it a rather moot point in my mind.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    60. Re: No kidding... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Even just language changes sufficiently fast for such documents to approach the threshold of comprehension for non-linguists.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    61. Re:No kidding... by the+phantom · · Score: 3, Informative

      To the contrary, in a recent interview (maybe on the Jist or Marketplace? I can't recall exactly where I heard this...) the author mentioned that the distinction between "nigga" (a common lyric) and "ni**er" (not a common lyric) made it easier to distinguish potentially racist searches from others. On the flip side, the author ran into trouble when trying to study sexist/misogynistic searches, as many of those are people looking for porn.

      It should also be noted that the punchline is not "people who search offensive phrases are racist." The punchline is that seemingly racist searches correlate (i.e. the effect is statistical, rather than individual) with other variables (such as regions where Obama underperformed when compared to other Democrat candidates and/or polling) that seem to indicate some underlying racism.

      The actual book appears to be pretty nuanced. The Vox interview linked above is also appears to be relatively nuanced. The Slashdot summary and the paragraphs preceding the interview on Vox are sensationalist, click-baity claptrap.

    62. Re:No kidding... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, maybe that is exactly an illustration of how the second amendment is kind of out-of-date: the militia would need nukes but it can't have them, and probably not even the drones, and such castration of the miliia is apparently non-controversial. So clearly the reasoning for the second amendment is irrelevant today. Now if there were a reason of personal defense mentioned, that would still make sense today, for example.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    63. Re:No kidding... by religionofpeas · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Racism writ large right there.

      Not necessarily. Could be simply hatred, unrelated to race. Trump isn't treated better.

    64. Re:No kidding... by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      There is a very obvious difference between someone talking about a group that they themselves are in

      Dividing humans in different groups is a racist thing to do.

      Mel Brooks is jewish

      Being jewish gives him to right to make nagger jokes ?

    65. Re:No kidding... by Bongo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A model is that human groups have a certain size they can maintain. A tribe is 200, a kingdom is 200,000, a nation is 2,000,000, and a planet is in the billions.

      What makes a tribe and a kingdom different is how the group organises and what it organises on. So for a tribe, bloodlines and kinship are key, and knowing people around you. Contrast that with a city where everyone you see all day is a complete stranger. So how you relate to others, how you feel about others, how you organise your relationships, and what they are based on, is different.

      Beyond 200, the tribe is unsustainable, as it is hard to feel close to 1000 people, as our brains just can't manage that. But we can, say in a kingdom, feel a shared group notion by all being allied and following the authority of the one king. And that works up until nation state levels of size, where you have many groups and it becomes impossible for an authoritarian to control their whole hierarchy. So then you get principles like democracy and personal freedom emerging, and 200 million can organise on that basis, and pay taxes into a shared pool, go to war if needed, as part of their "contracts" with society.

      But here's the kicker, and goes straight to your point: when a level is unsustainable for whatever reason, when it is failing, people easily revert to an earlier level. That is why the Middle East keeps reverting to the tribal stage, because it worked, it worked for 50,000 years, and if the new "modernity" ain't working, then go back to something which is known to work.

      Meanwhile, some people may discover or invent newer stages, newer ways of organising around new rules. That is after all the whole point, if I may say, about the climate change movement, in that they want to convince everyone that the existing nation states and industries have created problems and externalities which they can't solve, they are external, and so they will demand we move to a new higher way of organising, one that works for humans and the planet and all other species (see we are now into a "group" the size of trillions).

      So yes, when industrial headlands are decimated (or whatever the roman is for 50 or 90) then people feel that the system is not working, and so many people easily go down to an earlier stage, which happens to be the stage of "kings" ie. authoritarian, protectionist, which is part or all of the various signs and signals that Trump has been giving to the electorate.

      But note that is still a stage higher than pure tribal warlordism which is even more confined than kings. Tribal warlordism is just one tribe thrashing the shit out of all the other tribes. And that's ISIL. But you know, tribes worked for 50,000 years and it is just in our psychology. The camaraderie, the brotherhood, the romantic glory of conquest, and the raging blood lust.

      It is like watching The One Hundred, and Earth devolved to tribes. It is just like that.

      In Pygmalion the father is willing to sell his daughter, and the posh people ask him, "have you no morals?" and he replies, "can't afford them"
      (words to that effect).

      It is just like that, in that, if life conditions deteriorate, people often revert to earlier stages, as they can no longer afford the more "civilised" order. And that's human social systems. It is how they work.

      The point is, the earlier systems are there, kinda dormant in us, ready to be activated if needed.
      So this is observational and interpretation -- how the mechanism actually works is going to be something in our wired brains and capacities, I would guess.

      In a liberal sense, you want life to be nourishing and fair with education and good opportunities, so that in a conservative sense, everyone can work on their own character and develop themselves into becoming a better person, more attuned to society and the planet.

    66. Re: No kidding... by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Of course they do but they don't get shot at nearly the same rate.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    67. Re:No kidding... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 4, Informative

      it is also not racist to call black people 'Sambo' or to refer to Jews as 'Yids'?

      I live in the Deep South (theoretically, at least, the Heart of Racism in America). And I haven't EVER heard someone refer to a black man as "Sambo" or Jews as "Yids".

      Not once, ever.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    68. Re:No kidding... by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      Looks like all those bigots are scoring you as a troll. just sort of proves the point you make so well.

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    69. Re:No kidding... by jareth-0205 · · Score: 1

      Meh, I don't know what to do with this sort of simplistic statement. This is a fairly good discussion of Mel Brooks and why his humour is usually considered edgey but not actually a problem.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    70. Re:No kidding... by breagerey · · Score: 1

      Here are just two of many recent examples:

      anecdotes != data

    71. Re:No kidding... by cryptizard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There does seem to be more violent left-wing thugs than there are right-wing thugs

      I don't know about that, since it is hard to quantify, but there are definitely a lot more right-wing thugs murdering people e.g. Portland, Quebec City, Charleston, etc.

    72. Re:No kidding... by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      It's unlikely that a government would try to control its own people with nukes, so you don't need nukes to defend yourself.

    73. Re: No kidding... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      I think the best way to stop this nonsense is to stop using vague and ultimately useless terms like "left" and "right".

    74. Re:No kidding... by DarkOx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Deciding who can say what based on what race or ethnic group they are a member of is the height of racism IMHO. If we are all the same we should be free to playfully mock one another. When you claim otherwise you are headed down the path of victim hierarchy BS.

      Blacks comedians make fun of whites all the time Chris Rock has called white people "cracker" and its not a problem for anyone who does not have their SJW baton shoved so far up their ass its coming out their nose. On the other hand if you did it the other way round you'd be branded a racist by many. Clearly Chris Rock is not a racist who hates white people, how to do I know? At no point listening to any of his bits (which I enjoy) or interviews with him or reading reports of anything he has done have I felt his intention was to case me pain or belittle me for being white. He is just having fun.

      The test for racism really needs to include intent, when the intent of an action is to oppress, belittle, cause pain, or exclude; an act may be racist if it is otherwise racially motivated as well. Where that intent does not exists, it might be insensitive and maybe the affected person has a right ask someone not to do that but its unfair to brand that person a racist. What we have today is just a recipe for keeping everyone upset with each other all the time, and thus preserving racism.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    75. Re: No kidding... by coofercat · · Score: 1

      ...in fact, for LGBT equality, every citizen must have been educated about how it's wrong to discriminate.

      So, it may only affect 0.1% of the population or whatever, but it requires 100% of the population to make a change. Just like any other kinds of discrimination.

    76. Re:No kidding... by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      Ugh,

      That is a gross and unfair characterization of what he said. He said it was okay that it was done to him. He was not advocating at all the age of consent rules for others were wrong and has even stated as much. Frankly it makes sense to me, a guy like Milo does not want to be a victim so while you and I know he was a victim of sexual abuse, like so many people who become homosexuals are, his version of the story is of course that he wanted it and was capable of wanting it. Its coping mechanism! You and I would probably have some issues too if we'd been raped as preteens.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    77. Re:No kidding... by Subm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > Have not heard about too many right-wing riots where they were trying to silence a left-wing speaker.

      Looking up Martin Luther King Junior and watching videos of Selma, or Nelson Mandela and Apartheid, might give you a good start.

      They are blatant historical examples. The trend continues today.

    78. Re:No kidding... by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      Because the Southern USA is only a hot bed of racism as portrayed on TV written and directed by mostly leftist West Coasters (highly skewed demographically white and Latino) and Lilly white New England types.

      The truth is that in the south blacks and whites have been living side by side in the post civil rights movement era now for 50 years. Mostly we all get along great. People have lots of inter-racial friendships and share each others schools, churches, and neighborhoods amicably. Yes some slang terms that once had much more negative connotations are still used and sure the stars and bars flies here and there but mostly its a southern pride symbol now and the people flying it are as likely to downing beers with someone of the opposite skin pigmentation on a Saturday afternoon as not. I am not saying there isn't still plenty of racism but not nearly as much as would appear to someone not part of deep south culture.

      On the other hand outside of fairly integrated major metro areas, I think there is lots more of the vicious sort of oppressive closeted racism throughout the American North, Pacific Northwest and New England. They still see people as 'other' and smile at them during the interview while trashing their application later.

       

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    79. Re: No kidding... by tsqr · · Score: 1

      "The majority including myself do not give a shit about this LGBT issue. [...]"

      This is self-evidently false. If nobody cares, why is so much effort put into fighting LGBT equality? If nobody cared, when we asked for marriage equality, the response would have been, "yeah sure, whatever, we don't care".

      Why are you equating "the majority doesn't care" with "nobody cares"? Go look at the data. It's quite clear that the majority of Americans either support LGBT equality or don't care. That doesn't mean there isn't a vocal minority in opposition.

    80. Re:No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes those nasty left-wing thugs that threw rocks, bottles, epithats and sent death threats by email at phone at a democratic mayoral candidate (http://www.newyorkupstate.com/central-ny/2017/04/binghamton_mayoral_candidate_pulls_out_of_race_following_series_of_threats.html) or maybe you mean those nasty left-wing thugs that sent out deaths threats to university students and professors (https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2017/06/13/right-wing-media-assault-evergreen-college-provokes-white-supremacist-mass-murder-threats)

      Then there is all those supreme court judges that Obama was able to ram through the senate. You know the one where Obama forced Neil Gorsch on the Senate preventing the Senate it's right to pick and choose

      Oh and then there is Occupy-Wall street mob that threw firebombs and wielded bats and sticks on those poor wall street workers and then there are the Jan 21, 2017 marches in cities across the US. You know the one that turned violent. /sarcasm off

    81. Re: No kidding... by IMightB · · Score: 1

      Didn't you just prove his point?

    82. Re:No kidding... by rholtzjr · · Score: 1

      I doubt being seen as a stark raving lunatic will do the things for you that you expect. It will most likely damage your ideology's point of view more than anything. And then you will have lost. Guess what, the voters also did not like your view of the world either or at the least did not place the importance that you have on what you expected to happen. This happens when constituents and their representatives feel the government has been going in the wrong direction. And they have for the past 20 years. Heck even after Bush Jr. 75% of the people still felt we were headed the wrong direction.

    83. Re: No kidding... by Guppy · · Score: 1

      Ironically that is something that Hollywood are imposing on themself

      Wow, it's almost as if they have to obey some invisible hand, or some evolutionary economic selection process.

    84. Re:No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Didn't hurt yourself moving those goal posts, did you? You had to go back several decades.

      There are blatant current examples (like your guru John Oliver would say "`it's ${currentYear}`") of violent (Soros-funded) leftists throwing tantrums and attacking people in the here and now.

      Don't even get me started on the Authoritarian Left's mass mental hysteria and beyond-Newspeak attempt to control everyone's speech and actions.

    85. Re: No kidding... by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      No, they are pointing out that the right to bear arms at the time meant individual citizens owning, keeping, and using the most advanced military hardware available at the time. I'm not suggesting individuals own nukes, but why not a tank?

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    86. Re:No kidding... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      YOUR first ammendment rights are under assault (because private citizens dare excercise their free speech in conflict with yours) - yet when the court protects first ammendment rights you call it 'frivolous grounds'.

      It does not mean that one thinks the 1st amendment is frivolous, it means the APPLICATION of a 1st amendment argument in this situation is frivolous.

      Does it become 'frivolous' based on whose freedom of religion is being assaulted ?

      Yes, actually, and discriminating between religions is really how it works. Check out the instructions for IRS form 4029 for a great example of how religious discrimination works, outlining which religious groups get the benefit of not having to pay payroll taxes. I'll quote it:

      Recognized religious group. A recognized religious group must meet all the
      following requirements:
      * It is conscientiously opposed to accepting benefits of any private or public
      insurance that makes payments in the event of death, disability, old age, or
      retirement; makes payments for the cost of medical care; or provides
      services for medical care (including social security and Medicare benefits).
      * It has provided a reasonable level of living for its dependent members.
      * It has existed continuously since December 31, 1950.

      The point of it is to prevent people from saying "Tada, my new religion says I can't pay taxes, but without all the other stuff the Amish believe in that would make my life inconvenient."

      As for the specific issue at hand, I don't see any problem with treating religions differently when they have different effects on the world. Seems like a similar argument to how some weapons are more restricted than others even though the 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about what type of arms we're free to have.

    87. Re:No kidding... by poity · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The 2nd Amendment dramatically raises the cost of oppression. No longer can they ask you firmly to get in the truck and whisk you away. The political calculus changes if they know they must make loud noises and scatter some corpses in order to do certain things.

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    88. Re: No kidding... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Ancient? You think the Constitution is over a thousand years old?

      You're retort in a thread about the inaccuracies of language by focusing on a word that you managed to interpret differently that the GP?

      You just proved a very important point, but unfortunately not the one you were trying to make.

    89. Re: No kidding... by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      who cares the method??? murder is still murder if its with a knife pressure cooker bomb or gun

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    90. Re: No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because faggots don't want equality, they want power, as is evidenced by every faggot victory resulting in the persecution of religious types for their beliefs. Don't want to bake a cake for those two faggot degenerates? Too bad. The faggots have the power now; and rather than go to a cake shop that will happily bake their degenerate cake (there are many), they'll make you crawl to them or force you out of business. Faggots are pettier than a childless woman on the rag. When the day comes, not one faggot shall be spared the rope.

      The fact that the worst persecution you can cite is having to bake a cake for someone you don't like, and get paid for it, kind of weakens your argument. Get back to me when you are being tortured and killed for your beliefs about those monstrous gay people who want a cake for their wedding.

    91. Re:No kidding... by jareth-0205 · · Score: 1

      I think there's the concept of punching up and punching down, one being OK in comedy and the other being bullying. Chris Rock is generally punching up.

      I agree, intent does matter. Probably more than anything else, and the line that is drawn is fuzzy because it requires judgement of the author's intent, which is tricky to determine.

    92. Re:No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "The trend continues today."

      Citation needed. If you can only cite cases from 30+ years ago then your beliefs might be a bit outdated and incorrect.

    93. Re:No kidding... by Tranzistors · · Score: 1

      You sure have elaborate fantasies about who I am and what I do. I don't think it's healthy. But before you got off the rails you said

      or you could just lower your standards for what constitutes a racist

      I am talking about racism and bigotry, not racists and bigots. I don't care about peoples inner state of mind, but I do care about peoples actions.

      In any case, your rant didn't address my main point: what makes you think that bigotry "isn't everywhere"? Or to use a more posh phrasing, "doesn't permeate whole of society". I understand that proving a negative is a difficult thing to do, but you (or at least elrous0) seem to think that “is everywhere” implies “can't be true”, which is not valid reasoning, even using such vague terms.

    94. Re:No kidding... by danbert8 · · Score: 2

      Umm, Jim Crow laws were for the most part passed by Democrats, not Republicans... The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed despite almost all southern legislators (mostly Democrats at the time) voting against it.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    95. Re: No kidding... by dfm3 · · Score: 1

      You extrapolate 'bearing arms' to owning whatever catastrophically powerful weapons that you care to list.

      No, they don't. Go back and reread the second to last paragraph.

      Besides, the analysis of the historical meaning and interpretation of the constitution that they outlined is almost universally accepted as valid. It takes a very creative reinterpretation of both language and the glut of historic evidence to suggest that the second amendment didn't originally apply to the need for... a well armed militia composed of The People.

      You may have heard the phrase "living document" applied to the constitution... and while, yes, that terms is very politically loaded, I'd suggest doing a little research on it if you want to learn a little about the various ways that people on all sides of the political spectrum attempt to interpret that "ancient document" in light of modern society. The constitution itself actually spells out the means by which the document can be revised or terminated (hence, the many amendments that have been added over the years) but up to this point the nation as a whole has decided to continue to amend and reinterpret the constitution rather than throw it out.

    96. Re:No kidding... by jandersen · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I should have done a better job of explaining my context - I think these particular slurs are English/European. I chose them because they are less well known and I have the impression that many Americans would feel offended if I used the N-word.

    97. Re:No kidding... by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For these people, it isn't enough to impose their bigoted will upon the rest of civilized society. It is only enough when they achieve their end goal of killing or converting those who disagree.

      Err....this actually describes to a "T" the leftists and SJW's in the US at this time, not the conservatives or right.....

      Who is it was see using riots and violence in most recent years? It certainly isn't the republicans or the tea party folks...it is the SJW's....the left leaning citizens.

      The right isn't using violence, riots or intimidation to suppress expression by the other side...it is the LEFT that is doing this and has been for years now. It is a left wing fascism that is the violent problem in the US these days...trying to suppress any ideology that even remotely disagrees with them and their groupthink.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    98. Re:No kidding... by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      Nope, I'm convinced the best course of action is to get the complacent like-minded people off their ass and in to the polls the next election. That's far more likely to be successful than trying to play damage control with a bunch of deplorables.

      Modded troll as you referred to your ideological opponents as "deplorables."

      It's pretty hard to see eye-to-eye with most Trump supporters, simply because they've got their head jammed so far up their own ass.

      Modded to 0 probably for starting off the comment with your opponents heads being up asses.

      People who are boycotting Target over a fucking bathroom issue are the ones who are the real oversensitive snowflakes.

      Again, swearing and referring to opponents as "snowflakes."

      Sounds like you don't like it when your trolling posts which are critical of Trump get modded down...

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    99. Re:No kidding... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      I have never seen such a perfect example of well researched stupidity. It rather reminds me of high end astrology, books upon books of data -and nothing worthwhile anywhere.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    100. Re:No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If we wanted to play the history game, we could talk about how many Democrats were pro-slavery. Today though, the trend is for left-wing riots. See Berkeley, Yale, Evergreen, Middlebury. In each of these events, the so called "racist" is not racist by any historical definition, and sometimes has the same politics as the rioters. But they must be silenced because they disagreed even on minor, trivial points with the rioters.

    101. Re:No kidding... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      I dunno...its looking like, at the beginning here, that it was a LEFT type guy, taking target practice at our republican congressmen early this morning trying to practice baseball.

      Early reports have the shooter coming by unarmed earlier, asking "Hey, are these republicans or democrats".

      Once he got his answer, he came out firing with republicans as his targets.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    102. Re:No kidding... by cryptizard · · Score: 2

      Ok now name me two more just to match what I could come up with off the top of my head. Then I will find you 10 more right-wing terrorists.

    103. Re: No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Can you link to a source that says these riots were caused by the alt-right? It was my understanding that the "alt-right" is a more modern term.

    104. Re: No kidding... by stdarg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A lot of people feel like the simple request for "marriage equality" is a trojan horse that ends up with priests being sued for not performing gay marriages, or churches losing tax exemption status if they don't perform/recognize gay marriages. A lot of people feel like gay marriage is gross, but maybe should be legal, but again are scared of the trojan horse implications... suddenly gay marriage is going to be taught in schools, children will be taught that it's normal, etc.

      So there are reasons to be against it even if you think gay marriage BY ITSELF is no big deal and should be legal.

    105. Re: No kidding... by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      Supreme court decision of United States vs Miller. The supreme courts closing decision said the 2nd amendment guarantees everyone access to weapons equal to 'the military of the day'. Because he was caught with a short barreled shotgun and NOT an automatic rifle, it was determined his 2nd amendment was NOT violated. HOWEVER, had he been caught with an automatic weapon, he most certainly would have won his appeal. Precedence is supposed to mean something. And give up your moronic idea that there was ever an actual 'militia'. WE THE PEOPLE _ARE_ the militia. We always have been, we always will be. The constitution clearly states we CANNOT keep a standing Army. We can keep a navy, but we CANNOT keep a standing army. You sure seem determined to sell yourself into slavery, you must really have been fuly indoctrinated by the self-hating far left movement. The point of the 2nd amendment is to keep the power with the people so that the government cannot grow out of control, AS WELL AS providing for a national defense via an unpaid reserve military ie 'militia'. People were legally required to own TWO flintlock rifles, a bag of lead balls, and a barrel of powder at ALL TIMES. You didnt get to vote conscientious objector. The People, as in We The People, have ALWAYS been the militia of the united states.

    106. Re:No kidding... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      You are deliberately conflating "conservatives" with the alt-right and other assorted asshats that the GP was talking about. Many people who voted for Trump did so with their nose pinched because they hated Clinton even more. Either she was some kind of witch or a Democrat or a crook or whatever, but that doesn't mean they particularly like Trump either.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    107. Re: No kidding... by e3m4n · · Score: 5, Insightful

      you are in fact, part of the militia, armed or otherwise. You are expected to come to the aid of your fellow citizen in their hour of need. Whether that means fighting off attackers, muggers, gangs, helping someone after a car accident, its all part and parcel.

    108. Re: No kidding... by dfm3 · · Score: 1

      Issues like LGBT equality, abortion, and the like are only given so much attention because the relatively small percentage of people who actually care strongly about those things are the same people who show up to vote. It's well known that groups like young millenials and racial minorities don't turn up at the polls in as high percentages as older, white, middle class fundamentalist conservatives, so politicians focus on the issues that are most likely to mobilize that voter base.

      Regardless of what one thinks about Trump and the far right, his campaign promises and politics fall in line perfectly with what the most vocal, most likely to turn up at the polls, voters wanted to hear. It turned out to be a brilliant strategy.

      I live in an extremely conservative state, and run in some circles that are traditionally very far to the right, and even still I'd say that less than one in 20 people I know are religious fundamentalists or ardent Trump supporters who get fired up about those issues, while maybe 10 percent toe the party line just because, but a majority either don't express political views openly or are fairly moderate in their thinking and couldn't care less about issues like LGBT rights or other things that don't impact them personally. Maybe 5-10% of my acquaintances are on the far left side of the political spectrum, and care passionately about things like marriage equality and gun restrictions.

      But who shows up in greater numbers at the polls to vote in every primary and general election? It's that 15 percent on the right who are the most vocal about the hot button issues.

    109. Re: No kidding... by TFloore · · Score: 1

      You had me nodding until you got to here:

      It is not restricted to guns, though that's certainly what most of the debate revolves around today. It's likely that even when the second amendment was written, it wasn't intended specifically to refer to guns.
      [snip]
      There's no reason to limit the second amendment to guns.

      Remember, the founders had just finished fighting a war. They were pretty familiar with military speech and technology. They debated this stuff a lot. They said "Arms" on purpose. They did not say "Arms and Armaments", and they did not say "Arms and Artillery".

      In the military, going back several hundred years before the American war for independence, and continuing to today, "Arms" means pistols, rifles, and such. "Armaments" and "Artillery" is, depending on time period, catapults, trebuchets, cannons, howitzers, mortars, things more in that range.

      I think it is completely reasonable to believe many of the Founders would support "the people" as individuals owning full-auto M-16s and AK-47s. I don't think they would support individuals owning an US Army M198 or M777 155mm Howitzer.

      Everything above that line I quoted makes sense. Actually, I agree with much of what follows that line, too, but I felt it worth noting one specific thing I did disagree with.

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is... Oops. Frank, I've got your sig again! Where's mine?
    110. Re:No kidding... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Partisan politics brings out the worst in people? Who'd have thought?

      Yea, that and the feeling of being anonymous on the Internet....

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    111. Re:No kidding... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      Huh? Okay didn't realize you were just a troll.

    112. Re:No kidding... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      This is the other primary tactic of modern politics. Someone suggests that person A is racist. Person B is looking for an excuse to be offended and insulted, notices that person A has some tenuous relation to them (race, left/right political leaning, voted for Trump etc.) and deliberately assumes that they were being called a racist too.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    113. Re: No kidding... by judoguy · · Score: 1

      "The majority including myself do not give a shit about this LGBT issue. [...]"

      This is self-evidently false. If nobody cares, why is so much effort put into fighting LGBT equality? If nobody cared, when we asked for marriage equality, the response would have been, "yeah sure, whatever, we don't care".

      But this exactly the response of a lot of people I know, i.e., I really don't care. I'm not going to oppose same sex marriage and I'm not going to go to rally's to support same sex marriage. There are literally so many issues in the world that are important to someone that one can't be passionate about them all.

      --
      Peace is easy to achieve, just surrender. Liberty is much harder get/keep.
    114. Re:No kidding... by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      just because one is offended doesnt mean the other person is racist. no one has a right not to be offended.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    115. Re: No kidding... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      To bad the modern people don't know how to parse a perfectly acceptable sentence. The Militia, as defined by Courts is "the People".

      I would dare say, that if the government has to provide things for people to have "rights" when they can't afford them, then by this precedent, the government should buy guns for anyone wanting/needing them to exercise their rights.

      I mean, if I can be taxed to death and be forced to by crap health care because it is a "right" then we should be able to tax liberals so that poor ass hillbillies can have great weapons. Seems fair to me.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    116. Re: No kidding... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Actually, I am 100% sure he isn't for "gun control", he is just just against the citizens being armed. I am 100% sure he's okay with Police and Armies being armed to the teeth.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    117. Re:No kidding... by judoguy · · Score: 1

      You are so correct about this. I'm constantly amused at the folks screaming and rioting while waving signs that say "Love Trumps Hate". Where's the love?

      --
      Peace is easy to achieve, just surrender. Liberty is much harder get/keep.
    118. Re: No kidding... by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      because getting shot is SOOOO MUCH FUCKING DIFFERENT type of killed than beaten to death with a club, stabbed and beheaded by radical caliphate, raped and tortured, exploded by IEDs and every other means of death. You really are an indoctrinated idiot of you believe getting rid of one kind of weapon and leaving the other few thousand types is going to reduce the number of DEATHS any at all. Thats as moronic as the fucktards that are going around claiming success at curbing deaths from prescription drug abuse. Have you fucking taken a serious look at the last 6yrs with the increase of overdose from street heroin and the synthetics its cut with? Only a gun-control-loving fool would tout success at a law taking prescription pill abuse off the market. They single handedly created the worst epidemic in US history but there they go patting themselves on the back based on a manipulated STATISTIC. Dead is dead. IF you want to do something about death, you need to examine the cause, not the tool. We dont ban cars in the wake of these recent mass killings in europe. A car is just another tool used to kill. Its just as moronic to say 'jihad fucktardedness via stolen trucks is way down ever since we banned cars' while your city is burning down in ashes from moltov cocktails and mob brutality. For the record, the number of deaths from opiate overdose in the last 6 years has climed to number exceeding both gun deaths, and vehicle deaths, combined (including suicides).

    119. Re:No kidding... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Racism used to be heavily institutionalized, to the point where it was the normal, default position in society. For example, back when black people had to use a different bathroom, you couldn't really say that the white folks using the white bathroom were racists - they might be, but because that was the system at the time merely using the white-only bathroom wasn't an indication of racist intent or views.

      Now that a lot of that institutional stuff has gone, there is more focus on individual behaviour. People are more accountable for the things they do and say, because they can't hide behind it being the norm or the majority of other people doing it.

      So yes, racism has decreased, but racism isn't a single measurable value that manifests in only one way.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    120. Re: No kidding... by guruevi · · Score: 1

      The price in blood is not due to weapons, it's due to a large portion of the population that chooses to remain undereducated and idolizes a culture of perpetual non-integration, guns and criminal activity.

      Farmers and hunters across the world have guns and other weapons including the U.K., Australia and New Zealand yet don't have any problems with weapons in their cities.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    121. Re:No kidding... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      I'm not a troll, I just refuse to play chess with pigeons.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    122. Re:No kidding... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      https://slashdot.org/comments....

      Moderation is random, it depends who has mod points and what their bias is. Another say that might end up with a positive score. Like today there is more free speech / left leaning moderation because a lot of the right wing mods used all their points up on stories from yesterday.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    123. Re:No kidding... by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      So you fully admit that Antifa is no better than those that oppressed MLK, you can say that again louder? Maybe loud enough and in unison so that CNN and MSNBC might stop sweeping it under the rug?

    124. Re:No kidding... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      History is important, but thing change.
      Well, everything but you being a dumbass....

    125. Re: No kidding... by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      and we know these people werent searching them for informational reasons not because the believe those beliefs?

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    126. Re:No kidding... by swillden · · Score: 1

      Should you have the right to own private nukes for deer hunting ? If not - why is THAT a legitimate restriction on the right to bear arms but a fully automatic is not ?

      SCOTUS hasn't defined a standard of scrutiny for 2A issues yet, but to be consistent with the other core rights in the Bill of Rights, the only standard that makes sense is strict scrutiny. Strict scrutiny says that rights may only be restricted (1) if there is a compelling government interest, (2) if the restriction is narrowly tailored, and (3) if the restriction is the least restrictive means possible.

      Taking the case of nuclear weapons, the compelling interest is clear. So what kinds of restrictions would be narrowly-tailored and minimally-restrictive? Well, banning possession of a complete, fully-assembled nuclear bomb is narrow and minimally-restrictive. Banning possession of electronic components which could be used to construct highly-accurate timers needed to initiate the precise detonation sequence required would not, since that restriction is not narrowly tailored; such timers can be used for other things. Banning knowledge of nuclear physics would similarly not be either narrowly tailored or the least restrictive means possible. Restriction of access to highly-radioactive material and the conventional explosives needed to make a nuclear bomb are also pretty easy to justify on their own, completely aside from nuclear bomb building.

      Similar logic must be applied to each case.

      With regard to fully-automatic weapons, let's look first at the question of compelling government interest, in two different situations: the one that existed before the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the one that has existed since.

      Prior to the NFA, there were a significant number of gangland murders committed with automatic weapons, which was the motive for enacting it. The NFA did not ban automatic weapons entirely, but required purchasers to jump through some legal hoops to purchase a $200 tax stamp ($200 was a lot of money in 1934). The constitutionality of this part of the law has never been tested, though it seems possible that it will withstand strict scrutiny. It might fall the "compelling interest" test, unless the government can show sufficient historical, pre-1934 evidence that murders with automatic weapons were a serious problem. I think that evidence is thin, but it might hold up. Regarding narrow tailoring, the law is fairly narrowly tailored, as evidenced by the fact that it actually doesn't cover bump-fire stocks and other innovations that enable pseudo-automatic fire. On the question of least restriction, it's also quite good, since it's only necessary to prove that one is not a felon, etc., and pay a $200 tax. That's not very restrictive, since any law-abiding citizen who really wants one can get one.

      Post-NFA, however, it seems virtually impossible for the government to meet the compelling interest hurdle. The number of murders committed with full auto weapons is vanishingly small. Moreover, any law that attempted to reduce those murders by further restricting lawful ownership would be completely unable to meet the narrow-tailoring requirement, because the very few murders that are committed with fully-automatic weapons are committed with illegally-imported guns. No restriction of lawful purchase in the US could affect illegal importation.

      Similarly, given the presence of the NFA it seems very unlikely that state-level bans on automatic weapons, such as the one in California, could survive strict scrutiny.

      Where do you think the line should be drawn - and why should I trust YOUR line over anybody else's?

      I think the strict scrutiny rule established for other core rights provides a very good line, for exactly the same reasons it was adopted for other core rights.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    127. Re:No kidding... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      Yes you're so smart, that's why you compared real-life IRS tax code with astrology. lol

      Maybe everything seems like astrology to you because "it's so stupid here I am playing chess and you idiots are just pigeons"

      You're quite a character.

      Seriously, if you're not a troll, I have no idea why you were such an ass in reply to me. And if you really think I'm that stupid, that I was doing the equivalent of astrology, guess what... you need to reevaluate your own level of intelligence. Google "dunning krueger effect" for starters. Embrace some humility.

    128. Re:No kidding... by swillden · · Score: 1

      Okay - so why is the NRA never making [the argument that it's wrong to ban personal nuclear weapons]?

      Because the NRA is not stupid, in three ways. First, the NRA is not stupid enough to *want* people to have personally-owned nukes. Second, the NRA knows that making such a stupid argument would turn basically everyone against them. Third, the NRA knows that such an argument would never fly in court; personal nuclear weapons bans could trivially survive even the strictest constitutional scrutiny.

      Because they NRA only REALLY represent gun sellers

      This is a common misconception. The NRA is overwhelmingly funded by individual members, not by gun manufacturers. They publicly report their accounts; you can look it up.

      The fact that there is absolutely no possible way you can conceivably use a nuclear weapon in a legal manner anyway

      Nuclear bombs could be useful for mining, dredging and other large-scale earthmoving projects.

      you WILL kill innocent bystanders no matter what

      Not necessarily, if detonated in a sufficiently-remote area. However, unless the bomb was incredibly (impossibly?) clean it would leave significant radioactive residue which would fall afoul of anti-pollution laws. Good luck getting your environmental impact statement signed off.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    129. Re:No kidding... by swillden · · Score: 4, Informative

      Umm, Jim Crow laws were for the most part passed by Democrats, not Republicans

      Which makes sense because until the middle of the 20th century Republicans were the progressive party and Democrats the conservative party, particularly with respect to social issues.

      --
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    130. Re:No kidding... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      All well and good - now somebody please tell me why fixing the ridiculously stupid loopholes in the background check laws would not meet all those criteria in a heartbeat ?

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    131. Re:No kidding... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      No I compared your argument to astrology.
      The stars that make up the constellations really exist you know. They are real life.
      Nevertheless astrology is bullshit.

      I accused you of using legitimate and real data to make a bullshit argument that was neither supported by nor followed from your data.

      In fact there is no discernible link between them whatsoever, nor did you establish one.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    132. Re: No kidding... by mpercy · · Score: 1

      10 U.S. Code 246 - Militia: composition and classes

      (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

      (b) The classes of the militia are—
      (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
      (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

    133. Re:No kidding... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >This is a common misconception. The NRA is overwhelmingly funded by individual members, not by gun manufacturers. They publicly report their accounts; you can look it up.
      I spoke of who they represent, I said nothing about who funds them.

      These are USUALLY correlated things, but not inevitably so - and the NRA is a perfect example of an organisation where no such correlation exists. Besides which, they really have incredibly outsized political power - the entire NRA has less members than Planet fitness does !

      >clean it would leave significant radioactive residue which would fall afoul of anti-pollution laws
      And sooner or later somebody would pass through the area, no matter how remote it is, and get killed. I never said you would kill the innocent bystander right away.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    134. Re: No kidding... by mpercy · · Score: 1

      10 U.S. Code 246 - Militia: composition and classes

      (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

      (b) The classes of the militia are—
      (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
      (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

      It is quite clear from contemporary sources that all of the people were considered to be the militia. You may or may not be aware that shortly before the writing of the Constitution that many of those present had in fact been part of an armed insurrection against a government they found to be intolerable. They wrote this thing called "The Declaration of Independence", then took up arms against that government.

      In other words, they found that a militia comprising the people may need to use arms to maintain freedom for that State against an intolerable government. They wrote it down just in case the government they were in the process of forming *itself* would someday need to be overthrown through armed insurrection; or at the very least, the knowledge that the people were at least as well armed as the Army and outnumbered them by orders of magnitude (and they were at the time--the people regularly had the same firearms, even canon, as the Army) was to serve as a check against the government from using the Army against the people.

      Indeed, the Framers were keenly against having an Army at all, at least a standing regular Army. They recognized that Armies had always eventually been used against the people. So it certainly makes sense, historically speaking, that the Framers fully expected that the people had access to the same arms that the Army might have.

    135. Re:No kidding... by swillden · · Score: 1

      The test for racism really needs to include intent, when the intent of an action is to oppress, belittle, cause pain, or exclude; an act may be racist if it is otherwise racially motivated as well.

      Absolutely.

      Where that intent does not exists, it might be insensitive and maybe the affected person has a right ask someone not to do that but its unfair to brand that person a racist.

      Agreed, but with the caveat that the way someone reacts to being asked not to do that can often betray racism -- or at least a degree of insensitivity that is indistinguishable from racism. For example, among much of Southern White culture it has been common to say "That's mighty white of ya" to mean, depending on context, that the person has done something particularly kind, or generous, or sometimes even wise. While to the speaker this may be said without racist intent, just a customary turn of phrase, it clearly has deep racial origins and it's quite legitimate for non-whites to ask that the phrase not be used, because it's both offensive and serves to reinforce the remaining racism in the culture.

      When a person who uses this phrase is asked to stop, they can react in many ways. The best is to pause, reflect, note the clear racial origin of the phrase, and decide not to use it any more, apologizing for any slipups. But a common response, especially in online contexts or other situations where the requester isn't physically present, is to complain about "political correctness" and how the speaker cannot be told how they should and should not speak. Now, is that because the speaker is racist, and actually believes that kindness, generosity and wisdom are white racial characteristics not generally held by blacks, etc., or is that because the speaker is an insensitive jerk?

      There's no way to tell without broader analysis of the speaker's behavior, and it's perfectly reasonable, IMO, to call someone who can't be distinguished from a racist, a racist. If they don't like it, they should stop acting like a racist.

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    136. Re:No kidding... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Ok now name me two more just to match what I could come up with off the top of my head. Then I will find you 10 more right-wing terrorists.

      Well, pretty much all the rioters across the college campuses in the past year, that throw violent, destructive protests over a conservative speaker coming to speak, or the violent destructive marches for months after Trump was elected....so many that I"v lost count.

      It's bad enough when it is one person, but it is scary that we see the left today in violent mobs that hurt people, destroy property and ultimately suppress speech or expression of opinions that are not in lock step with their own.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    137. Re: No kidding... by dougdonovan · · Score: 1

      the one with the most toys wins.

    138. Re: No kidding... by modecx · · Score: 1

      A well balanced Lunch, being necessary to the function of a healthy Body, the right of the people to make and eat Hamburgers shall not be infringed.

      This sentence is syntactically identical to the Second Amendment, only substituting words without the emotional attachment of the original. As any reasonable person can plainly read, the introductory clause explains one reason why we're talking about the idea outlined in the second part of the sentence; in other words, it's an example of why it's important that people having hamburgers is to be a protected right.

      It doesn't say that people can only have Hamburgers at a (state sponsored) fast food restaurant.
      It doesn't say that hamburgers can only be had for the noon meal. Hamburgers can also be had for dinner, if you like.
      It doesn't dictate that hamburgers can consist only of a plain bun and grilled ground beef; you might also choose to garnish with cheese, pickles, lettuce, tomato, and a dressing of some sort.
      Furthermore, it doesn't stipulate that hamburgers are the only way to satisfy the condition of a "well balanced lunch". Pizza, Chicken Caesar Salad, or Sushi might also be applicable.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    139. Re: No kidding... by XXongo · · Score: 1

      No, they are pointing out that the right to bear arms at the time meant individual citizens owning, keeping, and using the most advanced military hardware available at the time. I'm not suggesting individuals own nukes, but why not a tank?

      In the 1790s, "the most advanced military hardware available" would be a howitzer. I'm not aware of individual citizens owning cannons in the 1790s. Do you have a citation for this?

    140. Re:No kidding... by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      ...is a misnomer.

      63 million votes were cast for Trump
      73.5 million people voted against Trump
      approximately 90 million eligible Americans - did not vote at all.

      The real "silent majority" didn't bother to vote.

      That pretty much sums it up right? 73.5 million people voted _against_ trump. It was more about Never Trump than anything to do with Hillary. In fact I would say that a vast majority of the 63 million were Never Hillary more than they were pro trump. Your mistake was, and still is, holding the media unaccountable for their forcing this bad scenario on you. Out of the 200million people in this country, it had to be a fucking dynasty? They tried like hell to make it another Bush vs Clinton election. Well the 63million or so were sick of dynasties so Bush was practically DOA. They scrambled and deliberately gave trump help up until the republican primary because they thought it would give them move power to RIG AN ELECTION. They VASTLY underestimated just how many people (including dems that would never admit it publically) abso-fucking-lutely hate Hillary. Beyond practically the most polarizing person you could NEVER want to get elected (even her 'friends' dont like her), she reeks of incompetence and bungling. She cant even do email in a secure manner, sending it in PLAIN TEXT SMTP port 25 all over the fucking internet. She didnt even attempt to use PGP or something else. Thats like using a postcard and telling the postman not to read the clearly marked TOP SECRET stamped on its face.

      You may not like the world you live in, but by giving your media a free pass for what they did, only because now they're after Trump, is doing yourself an injustice they WILL repeat again. Hold them accountable.

    141. Re: No kidding... by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      We're far from the leader in per-capita shootings. The statistics are not hard to find, though I don't have them at my fingertips at the moment. If I have time later and you're too lazy to find them yourself, I might come back and give you a link or two.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    142. Re: No kidding... by stealth_finger · · Score: 2

      Seriously, you and your mate must be pretty fucking thick if you think that people die anyway is a good reason for carrying around guns. Do you think death is a real entity going around picking people up and if you don't get shot you'll still die by something else regardless? Is that it?

      I mean people die anyway so why not let me have a fucking rocket launcher? If it's for fighting against the state with their tanks and armour a rifle will only go so far. Why can't I mine my property? I mean people die from walking in the woods, how would land mines a difference?

      That's how stupid you sound. Just admit you have a boner for guns and move on. Don't be embarrassed by it and come up with all this shit to justify it to yourself it makes you look like a tool who shouldn't be trusted with a hair dryer let alone a deadly weapon.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    143. Re:No kidding... by cryptizard · · Score: 1

      You know it is generally not a good debate strategy to just give up the actual point and then devolve your argument into vacuous platitudes. You should work on that.

    144. Re:No kidding... by swillden · · Score: 1

      >This is a common misconception. The NRA is overwhelmingly funded by individual members, not by gun manufacturers. They publicly report their accounts; you can look it up. I spoke of who they represent, I said nothing about who funds them.

      These are USUALLY correlated things, but not inevitably so - and the NRA is a perfect example of an organisation where no such correlation exists.

      No, it isn't. The NRA primarily serves the interests of its members. Show me some evidence to the contrary.

      Besides which, they really have incredibly outsized political power - the entire NRA has less members than Planet fitness does !

      This is the best counter to your argument above. Why does the NRA have outsized political power? Because its members strongly support its positions, because those are their positions. When the NRA calls on its members to make calls and write letters to their representatives, they do so, en masse, because its positions are aligned with theirs. And if that doesn't work, when the NRA calls on its members to vote out anti-gun politicians, they do that, too. In most of the country elections are close enough that the NRA membership can swing it, and in the redder parts of the country, the NRA membership outright decides the results.

      If the NRA didn't so closely align with its individual members, the only political clout it would wield is financial, and while it has money (thanks to its individual members), the actual cash it has to spend is pretty small potatoes compared to most lobbying organizations. It's the millions of call-making, letter-writing and vote-casting members that provide its political power.

      >clean it would leave significant radioactive residue which would fall afoul of anti-pollution laws And sooner or later somebody would pass through the area, no matter how remote it is, and get killed. I never said you would kill the innocent bystander right away.

      Radioactive residue isn't so deadly that merely passing through will kill people, in most cases. And if the bombs were used on private land so that no one could pass through without trespassing, they're not "innocent bystanders". If you trespass in lots of sort so mining, industrial and construction zones, you may well die because of the hazards there, but assuming it's well-marked, there's no one to blame but yourself.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    145. Re: No kidding... by Mab_Mass · · Score: 1

      So there are reasons to be against it even if you think gay marriage BY ITSELF is no big deal and should be legal.

      So, in other words, you think that it is a reasonable argument to deny two people who have lived together for decades the right to visit each other in a hospital on the grounds that you can make a totally irrational extrapolation?

    146. Re: No kidding... by eheldreth · · Score: 1

      A couple of foot notes. Miller would likely not have won his appeal either way because he was dead and his lawyer didn't bother to show up. Had he presented an actual defense to the supreme court it would have been trivial to point out that sawed off shotguns are in fact a militarily useful weapon in both trench warfare and close quarters urban combat (Though I'm not sure how that last bit would have been phrased in the vernacular of the time).

      The Miller decision as it stands is the result of the court not being presented with a defense and not being familiar enough with military tactics to interpret the usefulness of the weapon on their own.

      --
      The perversity of the Universe tends towards a maximum. - O'Toole's Corollary
    147. Re: No kidding... by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      So fucking much THIS!

      And here's the thing: The US has the most guns per-capita, but not the most gun deaths by the same metric! Yes, we have more gun deaths than almost anywhere else, but we also have a larger population than almost anywhere else; it's really the per-capita number that matters. Moreso, if one is trying to claim that more guns = more gun deaths, it's the per gun number that matters.

      But no, the reality is that Honduras, Venezuela, Swaziland, Guatemala, Jamaica, El Salvador, Columbia, Brazil, Panama, and Uruguay all have more gun deaths per-capita than the US; and all of them have fewer guns per-capita. That is, they all have more deaths per-gun than we do. In fact, with the exception of Brazil and Panama, every country I just listed has at least twice as many gun deaths per capita as the US, with Swaziland and Guatemala having more than 3x the rate, Venezuela more than 4x, and Honduras nearly 6x.

      Guns aren't the problem, people are. People who want to kill people (including themselves).

      Solve that, then we can talk about guns.

      If guns were the problem, this chart would look virtually the same whether you sorted by "Total" per-capita or "Guns per 100 hab", but it does not; Uruguay, with roughly 1/4 as many guns per-capita, has ever so slightly more gun deaths than we do; nearly 33% more homicides, remarkably fewer suicides, but a hell of a lot more accidents.

      France has nearly the same per-capita number of guns as Uruguay, but somehow manages a total gun death rate per-capita that is roughly half Uruguay's gun murder rate.

      Why? It's surely not because they have fewer guns! Uruguay has 31.8 guns per 100 people and a population of 3.43 million: 1.09 million guns. France has 31.2 guns per 100 people and a population of 66.81 million: 20.9 million guns. If more guns meant more gun deaths, France would be a relative bloodbath when compared to Uruguay, yet it's the other way around.

      And I'm not cherry picking, here; I picked France and Uruguay because they have similar gun ownership rates but vastly different gun crime rates. If I were cherry picking, I would have compared France to Sweden, with its 1.47 gun deaths per capita despite its 31.6 per 100 gun volume; or I'd have compared Uruguay and Sweden, as their gun volumes are even closer. I specifically chose a weaker comparison so I could present a stronger one when accused of cherry picking; and I still haven't presented the strongest data that chart contains.

      But, then, there's Honduras, with the most gun deaths per-capita: 67.18 per 100,000, and a gun volume of only 6.2 per 100 people. They have fewer guns per 100 people than the UK (in fact, fewer guns overall: pop 8.08M, 501K guns vs the UK: 65.14M/6.6-guns-per-100, 4.3M guns) and, yet, 292x the per-capita gun death rate. In fact, the gun murder rate on Honduras is 289.74x the total gun death rate of the UK, despite the UK having considerably more guns.

      Again, let's figure out why people want to kill each other in these places and fix that, then we can talk about gun control. Until we fix the underlying cause of the problem, all we can do is change how we kill each other.

      Sure, getting rid of guns will prevent gun violence, but it will be replaced with stabbings, beatings, floggings, vehicular manslaughter, strangulation, drownings, poisonings, bombings, and any other horrible way one might devise to kill themselves or another.

      It's not going to stop until we address the root cause, and that root cause is clearly not guns.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    148. Re:No kidding... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      What’s interesting about this is that we’re talking about a relatively small group of maniacs. The average American does not search “kill Muslims” or “I hate Muslims”; it's a small group but it's also an important group because these types of people can create a lot of problems. They are the ones who tend to commit hate crimes or even murder Muslims.

      So it depends what "full of" means for America. In this case, it means a misleading clickbait title for an article wrapping his book with a buy link.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    149. Re:No kidding... by Mab_Mass · · Score: 2

      Your argument makes sense, but you neglect the importance of historical context.

      The U.S. history is firmly rooted in the race-based slavery system that still has lingering effects today. There are many people still alive who lived through the Jim Crow/segregation era where non-whites were systematically and legally divided into a lower class.

      The effects of these policies are still very present today, where minorities have lower income, life expectancy, wages, etc. Furthermore, it is a common occurrence in the lives of a minority to be treated as inferior, automatically assumed to be a criminal, be less likely to get called for a job interview if they have a "black" name, etc., etc.

      While intent is important, you must also recognize that there are still vast discrepancies in race in the U.S. and that these contexts matter a great deal.

    150. Re:No kidding... by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Does it matter which side of the fence they're on? Terrorism is terrorism, crime is crime, and the punishment should be the same regardless of political bent.

      Look past the partisan bullshit and your vision will become clear.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    151. Re: No kidding... by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      Its a good reason to NOT ban them. Stop pretending like its going to cut down own the murder rate. It DOESNT. Thats why fucktards like you only ever quote GUN VIOLENCE statitics. Those same statistics also prove that gun bans will be MUCH more discriminatory to minorities and people of welfare than the top 1%. You cannot be that fucking retarded, its impossible. Do you seriously think your drug laws are all that fucking successful too? And yes I do think its time to get rid of those laws and re-look at that problem as well. As 100yrs of doing the same thing, without success I might add, is plenty of reason NOT to do it for 100 more years. I would guess that your also extremely young. Probably so fucking young that you do not realize that its these gun-toting-americans that save your ass year after year after year. Take a look at the standard compliment of UN Troops sometime. You seriously think your piss-ant sized country with their entire 2000 troop contribution (should have spelled it Troupe) makes for fucking anything in a real military campaign? You sound almost as bad as the french, rolling over, letting Hitler come along and fuck them in the ass... "not our art! anything but our art!". You want to do something about the murder rate? Tackle the real problem. Stop repeating something youve been told and think for yourself. This is from a former UN 'peacekeeper' thats sick and tired of being judged by the likes of those Incapable and Unwilling to mount their own defense, or even pay for it for that matter.

    152. Re: No kidding... by Daetrin · · Score: 2

      If gay marriage is "no big deal" then why do you care about these other things?

      "suddenly gay marriage is going to be taught in schools"

      Why? Is straight marriage taught in school? Of course the people against LGBT rights have made such a big stink about the issue for so long that it will probably be covered in history classes, but that's their own fault. We do want to teach children about reality right?

      "children will be taught that it's normal"

      If you "don't care" then what's wrong with this? Finding out gay people exist didn't suddenly make me gay. Growing up in a world mostly populated by straight people didn't make gay people straight.

      You can't consistently argue that you don't care if gay people get married while also arguing for a grand conspiracy to keep children from finding out gay people exist.

      --
      This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    153. Re:No kidding... by BronsCon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While this is correct, it is equally important to call out racism only where it exists. When the person in line in front of me at the market comes up short, did I offer to cover the few dollars difference so that I could get through the line faster? Or because they were darker skinned than I am? Or a woman? Or that I found them attractive? Or even found them ugly and just wanted to get rid of them faster? Or simply because I don't want to see a fellow human being suffer? You don't know, but people like you will automatically accuse me of making some power play if their gender or skin color does not match my own.

      Of course, if they're the same gender and skin color as me, you'll question whether I would have done the same if that were not the case.

      When that shit stops, then we can make some actual progress.

      People like you care a lot more about gender, race, and sexual orientation than people like me. If I choose to help someone in need, it is because I recognized their need during a time when I was capable of helping without setting myself back; if I don't help someone, it is because I can't. That extends to things as simple as holding the door for someone (for which only White Males typically ever thank me, mind you), which is something you will witness me doing to a fault; more often that I'm willing to admit, I have to let the door go in someone's face in order to catch up with my wife, who's already traversed the entire parking lot and started getting in the car. Because people have no fucking respect anymore.

      Most often, it is a White Male who will take the door from me and hold it for his own group. The next most common is for a Black Male to take the door from me, followed by Hispanic and Asian Women, at roughly equal rates. I've never had someone of Middle Eastern descent take the door from me, or even so much as thank me for holding it.

      But, then, I don't hold the door to be thanked, I hold the door because it is the right thing to do when not holding it would have it close in someone's face. I don't expect the thanks, but I do appreciate it. I do, however, expect that you will take the fucking door from me when you see me separating myself from my group to hold it for you, rather than being a dick and expecting me to hold it for your entire group.

      Regardless of race, gender, or sexual preference.

      Because it's the right fucking thing to do.

      Now, apply that everywhere.

      Making broad statements, expressing broad expectations, or treating someone differently based on one's gender is sexism. Doing the same based on one's race is racism. Doing the same based on one's sexual preference is yet another form of bigotry for which I am sure there is also a name.

      If you want it to stop, you must first stop assuming that everything everyone else does is motivated by it the same way everything you do is. That is, you must first recognize that, by accusing someone of being racist because of their race, sexist because of their gender, or whatever you call someone who discriminates against someone based on their sexual preference, because of their sexual preference, that you are doing the very same thing you are accusing them of.

      Stopping it starts with you.

      This isn't me complaining or whining, it's me simply stating my observations as fact. If you don't like the facts as I've observed them, change them instead of whining about what I've observed.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    154. Re:No kidding... by swillden · · Score: 1

      All well and good - now somebody please tell me why fixing the ridiculously stupid loopholes in the background check laws would not meet all those criteria in a heartbeat ?

      You have to start by analyzing whether or not background check requirements themselves are constitutional. Courts haven't reviewed this, but I think there are legitimate questions that arise mostly from the lack of evidence that background checks actually accomplish anything useful. "Effectiveness" isn't actually part of the strict scrutiny requirements, but it's implied by all three prongs of the tests.

      Even if you grant that background check requirements are constitutional, the "ridiculously stupid loopholes" really aren't so much loopholes as avoiding imposing a fairly invasive requirement on individual gun owners. Right now, background checks are not required on inter-personal transfers of guns. So I can give a gun to my son, sell a gun to my neighbor, or someone I meet at a gun show, etc. (as long as the person is a resident of my state).

      Requiring a background check for private transfers would mean that almost every change of ownership of a gun would require both parties to go to an FFL (Federal Fireams Licensee; a dealer) and do the transfer through them, for a fee. That's pretty onerous in many circumstances (though it would create a booming business for FFLs), especially since in the vast majority of cases it would accomplish exactly nothing.

      One variant (which I've never heard proposed) that would significantly reduce the invasiveness is some sort of "personal knowledge" exception, which would allow the check to be skipped in cases where the transferror has extensive personal knowledge of the transferee (say, 5+ years) and no reason to believe the transferee is restricted. This would make most classified ad sales, gun show sales, etc., subject to background checks, but that wouldn't be much of a problem. All gun shows have a large number of FFLs present who would be happy to do the transfer for a trivial fee (with so many co-located, price competition would be fierce). In the case of classified ad sales, most people prefer to meet at some public, neutral location to do the transfer anyway (you're meeting a stranger with a gun), and doing it at a gun store would be quite reasonable. Also, an exception could be included for cases where the transferee can provide reasonable proof of non-restricted status. For example, if the transferee is a concealed weapons permit holder, that means that the state has already done a background check.

      Actually, many gun owners I know refuse as a matter of principle to sell a gun to anyone they don't know well unless that person has a concealed weapon permit, for exactly the reason that they don't want to sell to felons or drug users. I'd probably adopt that attitude myself, except that I don't sell guns. I just buy them :-)

      Note that the NRA would probably not agree with my proposal for universal background checks with reasonable exceptions, unless it also included a clause requiring FFLs to destroy records of such transactions. This is because part of the objection to background checks is the concern that they establish a paper trail that could be used for future confiscation. I don't think that objection has any constitutional merit, though, since it presumes a future confiscation law, which would itself almost certainly be unconstitutional.

      That issue points out the even bigger problem with universal background check laws, which has nothing to do with the constitution: At present the US does not have the political will to pass them. Lots of Americans think it's a good idea in the abstract, but don't really care very much about it. A minority of Americans care about it a lot and will punish any lawmakers who try to enact such laws. The net is insufficient political support for enacting universal background check requirements. Until there's real interest in passing the laws, constitutionality is moot.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    155. Re: No kidding... by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Precisely this. And if I see it on the ballot and I don't oppose it, I'm going to vote for it. And I did.

      I just have better things to do than join a rally and wave around a picket sign.

      But I will (and did) frame a copy of the SF Chronicle "Love Won" special edition. It's not currently hanging on my wall because the box it is in, packed with other things that previously hung on my wall, has not been unpacked yet. Again, because I have better things to do.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    156. Re:No kidding... by cryptizard · · Score: 1

      Sure, that sounds awesome. Except the original poster wrote a whole diatribe about how all the violence is the fault of leftists. I was responding to that.

    157. Re:No kidding... by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      And your response was "I can find more examples of your side being wring than you can find of mine."

      Why does it matter? Both sides should strive to be less wrong by virtue, not simply to be wrong less often than the other guy. That mentality leads to it being ok to kill 9 people because the other guy killed 10, and I don't think that's where you intend to end up.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    158. Re: No kidding... by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      So wait... and I recognize that I'm breaking my moratorium on AC replies... you seem to be implying that he is against the LGBT community for not caring that Muslims are killing gays but, then, you imply that he supports the LGBT community because antifa?

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    159. Re: No kidding... by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      Is this sentence badly phrased?:
      "My kids being all under the age of 18, they are still in public school."

      How about this one?:
      "My kids being all under the age of 18, you shall not have sex with them."

      How about this?:
      "My kids being necessary to the defense of a free state, their right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

      Or this?:
      "A well-regulated militia being necessary to the defense of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed?"

      It's a perfectly normal way of phrasing things. A justifying clause ("such-and-such being so-and-so"), followed by the assertion it justifies (which can be any old sentence). It's the exact equivalent of reversing the two clauses, putting "because" between them, and changing "being" to "is" or the equivalent, e.g.:

      "My kids are still in public school, because they are all under the age of 18."

      Or:
      "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, because a well-regulated militia is necessary to the preservation of a free state."

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    160. Re: No kidding... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      The evidence you sought you, yourself, provided.
      'When the NRA tells its members'...
      As opposed to real representative organisations where the members telk the org what to do.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    161. Re:No kidding... by nwaack · · Score: 1

      Hey wickerprints, do you talk like the Matrix's Architect character in real life or do you just use big words unnecessarily in the online world to make yourself appear smart? Your multiple logical fallacies and incorrect statements would definitely point to the contrary.

    162. Re: No kidding... by chihowa · · Score: 1

      Seriously? Have you even tried reading the US Constitution, or any other English documents from the late 1700s? The sentence structure seems a little odd in places, but it's utterly comprehensible to any common English speaker. The Constitution doesn't even contain archaic idioms or anything.

      We may be arguing about the original intent behind some unfortunately terse sections of it, but that's not because it takes a linguist to read the document. Even modern laws are terse and vague enough to need a system of courts to interpret them.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    163. Re: No kidding... by swillden · · Score: 1

      The evidence you sought you, yourself, provided. 'When the NRA tells its members'... As opposed to real representative organisations where the members telk the org what to do.

      Now you're just being silly.

      The members do tell the organization what to do in general terms, like "fight against gun control". The NRA does this by employing staff[1] to keep track of specific legislative proposals, rate representatives and candidates on gun-friendliness, etc., and when it finds a situation where the members' political weight can be brought to bear, it notifies the members and tells them about the situation and asks them to act. The members act because they agree with the NRA's position and request.

      If you believe that somehow the NRA makes its members do its bidding against their own will, what mechanism does it use to coerce them?

      [1] It's also worth pointing out that the NRA's political section is a small minority of its total staff. Most of the NRA's employees work on its primary mission, which is to facilitate and encourage firearms training, especially gun safety training. The political arm is a relatively recent and fairly small addition.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    164. Re: No kidding... by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      But the issue now is: does anyone who chooses to have a gun automatically part of a militia?

      At the time of the writing, the militia was understood to mean every able-bodied adult male. ALL of them were members of the militia.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    165. Re:No kidding... by swillden · · Score: 1

      All well and good - now somebody please tell me why fixing the ridiculously stupid loopholes in the background check laws would not meet all those criteria in a heartbeat ?

      BTW, regarding the effectiveness of background checks: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us..., this morning's shooter passed Illinois' background checks. Yeah, he was suspected of earlier crimes, but those cases were dismissed, and we clearly don't want to go down the road of punishing people for merely being accused of a crime. That would be both wrong and unconstitutional even if there's a chance (not a guarantee, just a chance) that it would have prevented this morning's tragedy.

      This is an extremely common story, too. The problem is that background checks are an attempt to figure out which people are likely to commit a crime in the future, based on what they've done in the past. That's an effort which is always going to be doomed to failure.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    166. Re: No kidding... by chihowa · · Score: 1

      Indeed, US v Miller took place in 1934, and sawed-off shotguns had been used for house-to-house and trench warfare in WW1 and earlier. So it's not even a matter of showing that they were "militarily useful", but that they were actually developed and issued by the US military as the M1897 and M1912 "trenchguns".

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    167. Re:No kidding... by bgrahambo · · Score: 1

      lol, the guy posts about crowds of people instead of a few names you asked for, and you think he gave up the point? And then you devolve your argument into condescending remarks about something that you completely missed the boat on, without actually saying or addressing anything. THAT is not a good debate strategy. You should work on that.

    168. Re:No kidding... by cryptizard · · Score: 1

      It is because my whole original point was that we don't have numbers on imaginary crowds but we do on convicted murderers. He went back to crowds because he can't argue my point.

    169. Re:No kidding... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Because racism is so controversial, it's better to focus on "kindness" than on racism. Be kind to everyone.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    170. Re:No kidding... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The problem is such statements ("I dislike Asians because their food smells") are not racist. They're only made racist because society says "thou shalt love everyone regardless of how they affect your life" which is bullshit.

      It's racist (and ignorant) because:

      Not all 'asians' eat the same food, or even different food than you. You lumped people into a category that really doesn't exist. Based on their appearance, you automatically assumed you wouldn't like how they smell. You're racist.

      No matter how much of a close-minded nincompoop you are, I guarantee there is at least some 'asian food' you would really like, and now you have missed out on that.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    171. Re:No kidding... by war4peace · · Score: 1

      I have two kids. I don't know what you're referring to, but on the same note I don't blindly follow what any random dude is saying.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    172. Re:No kidding... by war4peace · · Score: 1

      "based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

      There is no belief of anything being superior to anything else, mate. it's antagonism based on the fact that that particular family is noisy, cooks bad smelling food with their apartment door open and their kids pee on the stairwell.
      By extension, locals with limited exposure to another race will judge that race based on the limited sample they are exposed to. Feel free to fight that behavior as much as you want, it won't change shit. That's simply how people are. They generalize.

      When any members of a minority (be it Americans moving to China or the other way around) bang their chest and yell "I have the right to behave according to my culture!" while the majority is expected to support that behavior, well that's a cause for racism to explode. Calling it racism and saying it's bad is THE cause for all the shit that's happening in Western Europe, with terrorism and everything. Local cultures gave way to minorities to behave how they felt like and now they're reaping what they sowed.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    173. Re:No kidding... by war4peace · · Score: 1

      I usually don't reply to ACs but you raise a good point.
      How do you define a gippo?

      First, it would be skin color. Then clothing. Then behavior.
      Me, I exhibit none of those signs, and except for some undefined accent, you couldn't tell which country I'm from unless you check my ID.

      When in Rome, do as the Romans do - is what I follow in good faith, and this is exactly where some cultures are severely lacking, thus generating racism. It's a simple as that.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    174. Re:No kidding... by war4peace · · Score: 1

      The statement was based on a limited sample, so to speak.
      Results from a limited sample are true until proven otherwise.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    175. Re:No kidding... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      I guess you don't know what astrology is. Astrology is not a study of stars and constellations in general, but specifically of their effect on our lives. There isn't any meaningful data about that because it isn't real.

      Just to recap, because this astrology tangent doesn't seem helpful.. it's a very poor analogy, providing really no reductive power:

      1. Calling the application of the 1st amendment to a situation frivolous is not the same as calling the 1st amendment frivolous or calling all applications of the 1st amendment frivolous... is this argument too complex for you? I thought it was pretty obvious.

      2. The government itself (let alone commentators on judicial rulings) recognizes some religions and deems others frivolous, and that is apparently legal (I'm not sure why it's legal, maybe the law has never been challenged). Which part is fake/illegitimate/indiscernible?

      I guess you have a problem with one of those, but I still don't understand why. Calling it astrology doesn't help. I think perhaps you just don't like being wrong, so you're not really addressing anything I said but handwaving it away as astrology and "playing chess with pigeons" and all that. Very dismissive, very important sounding, etc... but not actually a rebuttal.

    176. Re:No kidding... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Have not heard about too many right-wing riots where they were trying to silence a left-wing speaker.. There does seem to be more violent left-wing thugs than there are right-wing thugs.

      Yes, it's much more efficient to silence people with the stroke of a pen. If you gerrymander the crap out of a state like e.g. North Carolina, then you get to silence a million of people.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    177. Re:No kidding... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Results from a limited sample are true until proven otherwise.

      Either you're trying at some kind of obscure sarcasm, or you're really making yourself look like an idiot.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    178. Re: No kidding... by mbkennel · · Score: 1

      > You really are an indoctrinated idiot of you believe getting rid of one kind of weapon and leaving the other few thousand types is going to reduce the number of DEATHS any at all.

      At all? No possible way? Why have a gun at all? If guns are heavily restricted, but there are a few thousand of ways to kill, why mourn the loss of one of a thousand which is supposedly irrelevant? You have plenty of weapons left.

      Why not give toddlers (and cluelessly self righteous twenty something Libertarians) sarin to play with? Wait, less dangerous play-doh might reduce all-cause mortality of toddlers?

    179. Re: No kidding... by mbkennel · · Score: 1

      Criminals are also lazy.

      The people with the skill and the motivation to manufacture firerarms and ammunition on their own is pretty minuscule. What is the chance my first time gun and first time ammunition will be anywhere near as good, reliable, powerful and safe (to the user) and dangerous (to the target) as something manufactured in a factory with quality materials?

      And why doesn't this apply to explosives? Not many people killed in major bombings, because the materials are difficult to acquire and manufacture safely.

    180. Re:No kidding... by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      I would prefer if you don't respond to me anymore because every time, it's some crazy ass backwards my team is better shit that honestly I'm tired of reading. Thank you and don't take this as silencing your "free speech" as your dictator is doing a better job at that than I ever could or would. Not to mention I've gone through 45 mod points in a week. And only modded one person down that was on a complete rant about how much of a piece of shit Hillary is(and I'm sure you know my distaste for her by now)

    181. Re:No kidding... by mbkennel · · Score: 1

      They put down crazy people with guns very effectively with attack helicopters and collective punishment against towns.

      When Pakistan and US started to send military anti-armor missiles and infrared guided ground to air missiles, the Soviets had a problem.

      Supposedly (c.f. Wikipedia) prior to mujaheddin getting the Stinger anti-air missile the USSR never lost a major battle and after, it never won one.

      This is the fact of modern warfare: air power and air supremacy is victory.

    182. Re:No kidding... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      I read right-wing media for entertainment. I noticed that every time the government did something they disapprove of, it was "the Obama administration" - even when the government agency in question had absolutely nothing to with Obama or anyone he directly appointed at all.

    183. Re: No kidding... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately such terms both define and are defined by the political situation. The US has only two real political parties (there are smaller ones, but in a FPTP system they have absolutely zero power and everyone knows it), so naturally politics has to organise into two major camps.

    184. Re:No kidding... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Not practical: You have only very limited resources, and there are a few billion people who need them. Kind to everyone results in you living in a cardboard box so you can send all your earnings to build infrastructure in whatever country is most impoverished these days. You have to make choices - how much of your resources to use for charity, how much for your own luxuries, and who to direct the charity portion towards. That refers to time as well as money. Those choices will always be suspect, because people just instinctively spend more of their resources on people they feel some shared group membership with.

    185. Re:No kidding... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Not practical: You have only very limited resources, and there are a few billion people who need them.

      If you can't be a bodhisattva, then don't be mean to them.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    186. Re: No kidding... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      If gay marriage is "no big deal" then why do you care about these other things?

      There's a difference between letting people do what they want and forcing everybody to acknowledge it, especially children.

      Of course the people against LGBT rights have made such a big stink about the issue for so long that it will probably be covered in history classes, but that's their own fault. We do want to teach children about reality right?

      Come on, that is drastically oversimplifying. Do we want to teach about reality? Sure, but whose reality, or rather whose snippets of reality sorted by their own priority level?

      You can't consistently argue that you don't care if gay people get married while also arguing for a grand conspiracy to keep children from finding out gay people exist.

      I think keeping things simple in school is a good goal, especially when it comes to social issues. School isn't there to replace parents. And btw there's a pretty big difference between "gay people exist" and "gay marriage is a normal, healthy thing."

    187. Re: No kidding... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      Have you checked the marriage vs cohabitation stats lately? I would bet that many more cohabiting straight people are affected by such restrictions than gay people, so if this is such a big deal why isn't it being addressed for everyone who isn't married?

    188. Re: No kidding... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      Of course it's a weak reason. The whole issue is based on weak reasoning. It's social preference stuff. Care to share some of the strong reasoning on the pro-gay marriage side? I've never heard any.

    189. Re:No kidding... by war4peace · · Score: 1

      I don't know... what do you think?

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    190. Re: No kidding... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      Apart from the fact that the "fears" you mention are themselves a form of bigotry

      That's okay. I don't think there's anything wrong with some light bigotry. Heavy bigotry would be like arresting gay people for being gay. But personal preferences about what your children are taught? What clientele your bakery has to do business with? What sex acts you find gross? Nope, I don't care about that bigotry at all, and I think very few people genuinely do.

      your argument can be filed under "slippery slope fallacy"

      Not really, because gay marriage proponents have already signaled their stance on those issues. You called it bigotry just now. Well gee, do you want bigotry taught in public schools? Probably not. That's not much of a stretch.

    191. Re: No kidding... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      I don't know. Why should any charity be tax exempt? That's not the point, I'm talking about consequences of gay marriage gaining legal recognition. The point is people may really think "sure I think gay people should be able to be married" but then they're like "oh but wait, for whatever reason I DO think churches should be tax exempt, now this whole gay marriage thing is no longer about 2 people in a committed relationship, they're trying to impose their crap on MY church and affect MY life."

      That's the point.

    192. Re:No kidding... by bgrahambo · · Score: 1

      imaginary crowds

      I really don't understand why you're even talking about this stuff when it's clear you hadn't actually kept up on the topic in the news.

    193. Re:No kidding... by nasch · · Score: 1

      By extension, locals with limited exposure to another race will judge that race based on the limited sample they are exposed to

      Judge that race as what? As inferior. That's racism.

    194. Re: No kidding... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      But gay marriage is never "by itself" in your context, you cannot say, I am pro-gay marriage but I still want them to be looked at as gross people.

      It's definitely possible to say that, just like you can be pro-porn and simultaneously find porn stars rather gross. Or is that just me? I wouldn't marry a (former or active) porn star.

      But if you "don't care" about gay marriage, you wouldn't think it was gross.

      Maybe I wasn't clear because you're not the only person saying that. To me there's a big difference between "don't care at all about xyz" and "don't care about the legality of xyz." There are tons of things I support the legality of, that I don't support the participation in. You want to be gay married? Great. You want to have 3 wives? Go for it. You want to fuck your sheep? Have a great time. You want to drop out of school and be on welfare? Well now that's starting to affect me via taxation, but you know what, I still don't want to arrest people who made bad life choices or cut off their welfare and see them starve in the streets, so who cares, go for it. You want to go do Christian missionary work in Iran or North Korea? Jeeze I think you're really stupid, but still I don't care.

      But I don't want any of those things taught to my kids as noble or even normal. Porn stars are gross. Fat people are unhealthy. People who want to cut off their penis because they feel like a girl are mentally ill. And yet I can still say "they're free to do it, just don't expect me to applaud them."

      I think raw tomatoes are gross, they make me gag to try to eat one. That doesn't mean tomatoes aren't taught as being a normal thing to eat.

      That's a terrible example, actually. The reason your example appears to show that "normalizing food" is a silly concept is because you picked an example that I've literally never heard anybody complain about, and that lots of people do themselves. So that's like the opposite of gay marriage... lots of people complain about gay marriage, and very few people will ever be gay married.

      What do schools teach you about eating cats and dogs? Selling cat and dog meat is actually illegal in some states. In some other countries it's common. Chances are very high that if a student in the US said "I think eating cats and dogs is gross, it's animal cruelty!" they would not really be disagreed with, nobody would consider it disrespectful or bullying, there would be no meeting with the parents about "we're concerned about Johnny's lack of sensitivity to cat and dog meat eaters" etc.

    195. Re: No kidding... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Only if you cherry pick your date range to not include WWII.

      Countries with gun control tend to lose control of their governments, leading to huge wars.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    196. Re:No kidding... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Well, you know, that's just the sort of narrow-mindedness you'd expect to see in an Eastern European.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    197. Re: No kidding... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      UK person here! Just to clarify, guns are very, very rare in this country. It's possible to get a gun license, but only under very narrow circumstances - you need to show a specific purpose, and self-defence doesn't count. In the case of farmers, rifles are out - weapons firing bullets, due to their long range, are the most heavily restricted, though a very small number of licenses are granted for sporting purposes - on the condition they only be fired at approved ranges. Farmers can get a license to own a shotgun for pest control purposes, but in practice very few farmers actually do this for reasons of simple practicality: Shooting foxes is hard work, it's more practical to use other means in most places. Like a really good fence. Also, unlike the US, our gun license has strict conditions - background checks, mandated storage requirements (ie, it has to go in a gun safe) backed up by inspection, restrictions on where the gun may be used.

      So, to correct you: Yes, farmers in the UK may own guns. But only a very small number actually do.

    198. Re: No kidding... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      They owned armed warships and fielded cannons in the revolutionary war and 1812.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    199. Re: No kidding... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      There's always a line to debate. What about grenades?

      The Davy Crockett could be fired by one person. You need three to carry it, but only one to actually fire it.

    200. Re: No kidding... by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      I applaud you. I cant even bring myself to point out the common sense part to people that blind their self to reality. At least someone still has it in them. Thank you kind sir!

    201. Re:No kidding... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      "Nuclear bombs could be useful for mining, dredging and other large-scale earthmoving projects."

      Don't forget recreational use. Make one hell of a fireworks display.

    202. Re:No kidding... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      The media gave Trump help because he is ratings gold. He naturally hogs the spotlight - every time attention started to drift he would say something outrageous. The entire world either loved him or loved to hate him, and they'd eat up every column and every second of footage either way. Of course they sidelined all the other Republican candidates - in an attention economy, how could any compete with The Donald? He'd already made himself a character before even entering politics.

    203. Re: No kidding... by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      I mean people die anyway so why not let me have a fucking rocket launcher? If it's for fighting against the state with their tanks and armour a rifle will only go so far

      See! Now you're talking my level. A rocket launcher would MUCH do better than a gun in these government drone attacks you now have me afraid of.

    204. Re: No kidding... by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      I think enough people voiced the same opinion I have to you on this, So I will leave it at that. Thank you.

    205. Re:No kidding... by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      The 4th of July is right around the corner too!

    206. Re:No kidding... by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      So, by your logic since the government has nukes, and drones, and such items. I should just let them do whatever they want, and let them tell me to do whatever they want me to do. That is called tyranny. That is the exact reason we have the second amendment.

    207. Re:No kidding... by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      Said mayor should be shot. Bottom line.

    208. Re:No kidding... by war4peace · · Score: 1

      You're entitled to your opinion, and I am not against it. Too bad the feeling isn't mutual.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    209. Re:No kidding... by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Who said they're inferior?
      You're assuming too much.

      "Different in a way I don't like" is not at all equal to "inferior".

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    210. Re:No kidding... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      You're definitely entitled to your opinion. But if your opinion is racist, then stop that. Fix yourself.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    211. Re:No kidding... by cryptizard · · Score: 1

      In April, Christian was filmed and photographed doing a Nazi salute while shouting: "Die Muslims!" at an alt-right "free speech" rally.

      Sounds like a left winger to me, sorry for spreading lies LOL

    212. Re: No kidding... by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      You guys should really start logging in so we can tell which one of you is Locke and which one is Demosthenes.

    213. Re:No kidding... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      talking about his childhood situation

      Keep looking, you'll find that it was a hell of a lot worse than that which lost him some speaking engagements.

    214. Re:No kidding... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I don't know what you're referring to

      I'm referring to a person who advocates sexual assault on children.

    215. Re:No kidding... by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Have not heard about too many right-wing riots where they were trying to silence a left-wing speaker.. There does seem to be more violent left-wing thugs than there are right-wing thugs... And you sound like one of those.

      EDL, Reclaim Australia, UPF.

      As a centrist (centre right actually) I see more right wing groups trying to silence their opposition than left wing groups attempting to do the same. And the right are always more ready to use violence (and then clam the left started it).

      As a moderate, I tend to dislike the extreme right more than the extreme left and view the extreme right as more of a threat to a functioning society.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    216. Re:No kidding... by mjwx · · Score: 1

      >abuses that you racists and bigots have been guilty of committing

      I'm gonna stop you right there. Actual racism (discriminitory practices, unequal pay, violence, etc) has been going down steadily since as long as I can remember.

      I'm an Australian who lives in the UK. I've actually seen a huge uptick in racism and racially motivated violence in Australia and the UK in the last few years, since 2010. We didn't have segregation, Jim Crowe laws and what not in the 60's and did away with institutionalised racism long before my grandfather was born (the last vestiges of it, in imperialism, died out in the British Empire around the turn of the 20th century). So compared to 1980's Australia there is a lot more open racism.

      It's become socially acceptable to be openly racist now and somehow wrong to point out when someone is being racist (PC, SJW or whatever they'll call you next week). Previously, proper racists had to hide behind closed doors, hence the term closet racist, but now they can create echo chambers where people who oppose them are viciously beaten down, sometimes physically with groups like the EDL (English Defence League) or UPF in Australia.

      They began reminding us how "White Males" (now a derogatory term) keep everyone else down. How they're racist and misogynist and the lowest scum to walk the Earth. How they don't deserve to even have an opinion, much less state one

      Sorry, but that is just a(n imagined) victim mentality. Oddly enough, you're trying to use the same tactics as those you complain about. White males are still the most privileged group and you only need to look at popular culture to determine that their opinion is still the strongest of all opinions.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    217. Re:No kidding... by lucm · · Score: 1

      What got Trump elected is mostly Obamacare and Clinton.

      But there's a special mention to the sexting perv (Weiner) who had the great idea to send dick pics to a minor, which made the FBI look closely at his computer and find old classified emails from the time his ex-wife was working for Secretary Clinton. That's what caused the investigation into the emails to be reopened just before the elections. Dick pics and incompetent email users.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    218. Re:No kidding... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      That's completely irrelevant actually - indeed it's not even the purpose of background checks. The purpose of background checks is to let existing gun ownership laws actually be enforced - so that previously convicted felons (already prohibited), or dishonourably discharged serviceman cannot easily acquire a weapon they are prohibited from owning.
      They do not reduce the people who are legally able to get a gun - which is why resistance to them is so fundamentally stupid, all the people they may prevent from getting one are already legally prohibited anyway, it just takes away the loopholes that let sellers ignore the law - it has no impact on who is a legal buyer.

      The point of fixing the background checks is much more simple than reducing gun violence: it's about the principle of the rule of law.

      Gun violence is an entirely different debate -- which should not be conflated.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    219. Re:No kidding... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      I never said the data weren't real. Just like your data astrology uses real data. And just like your post, astrology then draws false conclusions from that data.

      1. But you showed no evidence that it was frivolous. More importantly - it is as fundamentally first amendment case as you can ever imagine. There can be no LESS frivolous one than something as fundamental as a religious test for entry into the country. Nothing could more obviously violate what that amendment is designed to ensure will never happen.

      2. All true but entirely irrellevant since the religion in question is already (and has been for centuries) deemed a recognised religion by the US government. There may a process by which a religion goes from 'frivolous' to 'recognised' - but there is no process by which it can go the other way.

      And mostly I had a problem with the claim that religions have different effects on the world and this justifies governmental discrimination. The claim isn't true - and even if it was true the conclusion doesn't follow and is, in fact,specifically prohibited by the constitution.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    220. Re:No kidding... by war4peace · · Score: 1

      A person can say many, many things. Some will be horrible, some will be worth taking into consideration. I don't judge a person based on ONE statement, even if I wholly disagree with that statement.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    221. Re:No kidding... by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Dude, you apply labels too broadly.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    222. Re:No kidding... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I don't judge a person based on ONE statement,

      You haven't been paying attention if you somehow think it was just one statement that made some fairly extreme groups decide that Milo was far too extreme for them.
      Google "milo pedophillia" to be updated on what happened.

      To sum up he doesn't just hate women and people who care about society. He hates your entire way of life and thinks it's fine if someone preys on your children.

    223. Re:No kidding... by war4peace · · Score: 1

      You're right, I haven't been paying much attention; watched some videos he was in, had some fun, moved on.
      But I think society needs disrupting factors such as him. Those factors get you thinking, at the very least. They're more useful for my brain by an order of magnitude than this month's fail compilations or lolcats, to name a few.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    224. Re:No kidding... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      To be honest, even if I was inclined to do that, I'd just forget. Use the foe system with a hefty down modifier is all I can suggest.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    225. Re:No kidding... by swillden · · Score: 1

      That's completely irrelevant actually - indeed it's not even the purpose of background checks. The purpose of background checks is to let existing gun ownership laws actually be enforced - so that previously convicted felons (already prohibited), or dishonourably discharged serviceman cannot easily acquire a weapon they are prohibited from owning.

      That just begs the question. Why do we have/need laws restricting some people from owning firearms for life? The only possible answer is to reduce violence. Personally, I think lifetime bans won't stand up to constitutional scrutiny, and are on morally questionable grounds as well. Temporary bans on the mentally ill are more justifiable, but also incredibly hard to implement in a fair and even-handed way, without deep invasion of lives and without creating the risk of deterring people who need help from seeking it, which could actually increase violence.

      The point of fixing the background checks is much more simple than reducing gun violence: it's about the principle of the rule of law.

      If that's the case, then we have a bigger problem: The existing background checks identify tens of thousands of illegal gun purchasers every year... and only a few hundred are prosecuted. If the problem is uneven application of the law, then you should really be up in arms over that.

      Gun violence is an entirely different debate -- which should not be conflated.

      So why bring up background checks in a discussion of gun violence? You should know that the vast majority of people who argue for universal background checks do believe that it is a way to reduce gun violence. That being the case, in the future you should probably make your very unusual perspective clear when you bring the issue up.

      I certainly agree that background checks have basically no impact on gun violence and therefore don't meet the compelling government interest requirement of strict scrutiny. I said as much in the other post where laid out the constitutional analysis of universal checks. Your implied argument here is that they're necessary to ensure uniform application of another gun law (one that is itself constitutionally suspect), but mere uniform application clearly doesn't constitute a compelling government interest. If it did, then it would be constitutional to stop random people on the street to search them for drugs.

      So, basically, you're arguing for rescinding the existing background check laws.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    226. Re: No kidding... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      The principal of equality before the law is a compelling government interest. A law should not apply only to those who lack the resources (be they intelectual or monetary) to avoid it. Tax laws full of loopholes you can only use if you are rich enough to afford a tax lawyer violate that principal. As do gun laws that only apply to those who do not know how to avoid them.
      If a given person is prohibited from owninf a gun - nobody should be able to sell him one. Letting those with access to gun shows ignore the law violates the principal.
      If banning certain citizens from owning a gun is a bad law to you - then challenge the law. But while the law stands - it should be enforced and applied equally to all gun sellers.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    227. Re:No kidding... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      But I think society needs disrupting factors such as him

      Maybe I was that naive once, but I'm certainly not now after meeting a few "disrupting factors" who speak like that - one of who is going to be in prison for a very long time after killing the child he molested. Milo is serious about it, he's not just asking questions about limits. That's why some fairly extreme groups decided to distance themselves from him before he does more than just advocate criminal actions and gets caught perpetrating them.

    228. Re:No kidding... by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      So you are saying one poorly phrased term is just as bad as a long chain of continued fear mongering? With this "Build a wall" to keep the Mexicans out, as part of his core stump speech. The "deplorable" statement was not right, and yes they are are educated and thoughtful trump supporters. However the core of supporters are not. The surprise states came from areas where blue collar jobs cover the bulk of the economy, normally these people support democrats due to strongish unions in that area.

      OK I get it, you don't trust Clinton. But why do you consider Clinton more dangerous than Trump? If you are running for president you are self serving and want the power, no matter what party you are in. You profanity in your post makes me expect that you are reacting on an emotional aspect to someone challenging your beliefs. Your education degree doesn't equate to the emotional awareness that you personally have. And the fact that you preferred Trump over Clinton isn't a judgement of you personally, but the fact that you called me "a small minded asshole who doesn't have the ability to understand differing points" does. They were other reasons for people to choose Trump. However the fear mongering and us vs them, approach that he used much more than his rivals. Is a factor of affecting people on the emotional level which helped turn the tide.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    229. Re:No kidding... by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Thus my suggestion that we'd be happier as a collection of semi-autonomous monocultural villages than as a One-Size-Fits-None multicultural Republic.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    230. Re:No kidding... by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I don't remember anybody shooting up the Democrat's congressional baseball team to prevent free speech.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    231. Re:No kidding... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Sure. If you don't like the racist label, then we can avoid it. It's a poorly defined word.

      If your opinion is narrow-minded and dumb, then it's narrow-minded and dumb. If you only know two languages, then you only know two languages.
      And those who denigrate others invariably look down on themselves.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    232. Re:No kidding... by CountZer0 · · Score: 1

      Of course, that saying is almost exclusively used sarcastically and intended as an insult, which makes it even harder to determine if there is racist intent. It is almost never used as an actual compliment.

    233. Re:No kidding... by swillden · · Score: 1

      Of course, that saying is almost exclusively used sarcastically and intended as an insult, which makes it even harder to determine if there is racist intent. It is almost never used as an actual compliment.

      Interesting. Your experience differs from mine.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    234. Re:No kidding... by swillden · · Score: 1

      People keep saying that conservatives and "right wingers" are rioting or trying to silence the left... Where?

      I wasn't addressing that question, but if you want my opinion on it, here it is: I think both sides often try to silence the other. I think the left is more aggressive about it, because the left is more convinced of their own moral rightness. That makes sense, since the conservative viewpoint is less about seeking moral rightness and more about not upsetting the apple cart (there are areas in which the parties reverse, though). So the left, who believes they're focused on using the government to right past injustice, feels justified in being aggressive because their opponents clearly want to preserver injustice and are therefore bad.

      It's instructive to look at the areas where the attitudes reverse. Take abortion. Pro-life Republicans do feel like that is an intensely moral issue, and although it's died down a bit in recent years, it wasn't so long ago that large groups of them physically blocked access to abortion clinics, and extremist individuals went so far as to murder doctors who performed abortions. Meanwhile, Republican legislators used their power to attempt to silence information about abortion, or to force it to be delivered only in a context that painted it in a bad light.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    235. Re:No kidding... by Keith+Henson · · Score: 1

      It's not surprising we have made "remarkably little progress." Humans are the result of millions of years of selection. From what we see in the archaeological record, there was xenophobia and violence aplenty.

      What switches off the xenophobia is good times and rising prospects. What switches xenophobia on is stagnant or falling income and poor future prospects.

      If you want the long version, try here: https://www.academia.edu/77738...

      --
      End MGM. Get prospective parents of boys to Google: Men do complain
    236. Re: No kidding... by swillden · · Score: 1

      You need to re-read the post you replied to.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    237. Re:No kidding... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Care to prove that the violent ones are actual leftists and not agents provocateur?

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    238. Re:No kidding... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      In the Berkeley riot I bothered reading about, apparently the left-wing demonstration was reasonably peaceful until masked people arrived as a group and started breaking things. Apparently, nobody got the political affiliation of the masked people.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    239. Re:No kidding... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The problem with not calling out racism or sexism unless I'm absolutely sure it's part of a specific incident is that it's usually hard to tell for each individual incident.

      People have made experiments by making up resumes and putting different names on them before sending them out. Without inside information, it's impossible to know whether a particular decision was racist or sexist, but when the results are in it turns out that there are different statistical responses depending on whether the name is male or female, and whether it's black-sounding or white-sounding. Obviously there is racism and sexism going on, because otherwise the reactions would not be statistically distinguishable.

      So, what are we supposed to do? We shouldn't accuse any individual receiving the resumes of racism or sexism, because we can't tell. (We can tell in extreme circumstances, We do need to recognize that racism and sexism are occurring.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    240. Re: No kidding... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I'm no longer a member of the Unorganized Militia of the United States, and haven't been for over fifteen years. My wife never was a member. I have no legal duty to come to the aid of a fellow citizen, except perhaps to call 911.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    241. Re:No kidding... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I'd say it's your right to own a weapon that can turn Bambi into a black cloud of smoke, and you don't necessarily have a right to shoot at Bambi with your weapon.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    242. Re:No kidding... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Tha answer is that the militia be it a group or individual needs to have strong enough arms to revolt against a malicious government.

      No, that isn't going to happen. It's practically impossible for a group of armed civilians to defeat a regular army force without truly overwhelming numbers and an unrealistic disregard for casualties and safety. This isn't 1775.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    243. Re:No kidding... by BronsCon · · Score: 1
      There's a difference between positive outcome and negative outcome events. The actions I listed (holding a door for someone, covering part of someone's grocery bill) were positive outcome events and, no, you should not default to assigning racist, sexist, or other bigoted intentions to people who act toward positive outcomes.

      It's a bit different with negative outcome events, but you should still have at least some bit of evidence before you publicly call out someone as racist and potentially end their career, for the very same reason police are required to have some sort of evidence before ruining your life by charging you with a crime. If you disagree with that, please consider that, in such a world where it becomes acceptable to make open and public accusations with no evidence, I could have you labeled a sexist, racist, anti-gay, child rapist.

      Do you want any of those labels? If not, it is best to uphold some standard of evidence for accusations.

      We do need to recognize that racism and sexism are occurring.

      Indeed we do. We need to recognize when they are happening, as well, and not go around accusing everyone who interacts with anyone of a different race, gender, religion, or sexual preference of being a bigot. All that leads to is people avoiding those of different races, genders, religions, and sexual orientations, dehumanizing them, and causing more bigoted thoughts and actions when those encounters can't be avoided.

      It's a slipper slope, accusing someone with no evidence.

      In other words, call it out when you see it, not just when you perceive it. Kind of like how one might consider it acceptable for a cop to shoot a suspect he sees aiming a gun at someone, but not acceptable for the same cop to shoot the same suspect holding a phone the cop thinks is a gun.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    244. Re:No kidding... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      No, they ask you firmly to get into the truck, except if you're armed, in which case they tell you do put the weapon down and shoot you if you don't comply. By arming yourself, you're only adding extra steps to the process.

      I can conceive of no reason why an oppressive government wouldn't want to make some loud noises and scatter a few corpses around now and then, provided the corpses are of people who seriously resisted the government.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    245. Re:No kidding... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Oddly enough, there are lots of Trump supporters who don't seem to accept the election results. They're still trying to run against Clinton, months after she's ceased to be politically important. In discussions about Trump, I keep seeing people talking about the email server and the mishandling of classified material and Benghazi (where the Republican refusal to give Clinton the security funds she insisted was necessary caused the death of four people), like any of that's relevant to what Trump's doing.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    246. Re: No kidding... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I have a friend who's an Episcopal priest. A mutual friend asked her to officiate at her wedding, and as it turns out the friend's fiance doesn't want to go to premarital counseling, and my friend is bound by canon law not to perform the ceremony in that event. Apparently, then, it is possible to legally refuse to perform a religious ceremony.

      The Roman Catholic Church doesn't ordain women as priests. I haven't heard of any lawsuit successfully compelling the Church to ordain one. Sexual orientation is part of the protected class legislation in many states, but sex itself is almost always part of the protected class legislation.

      I find myself being turned off by the idea of gay sex, but so far none of my gay relatives, friends, or acquaintances have started doing sexual things in my presence. I really don't care what people do in private. My stake in this is that I want people to be able to marry those they love. I'm pro-marriage. My current one has been very successful, most of my married friends and relatives are happy with their marriage, and I want everyone to be able to enjoy it.

      How much is marriage taught in schools today? And who TF are you to say what's normal? I want there to be more sex and less violence in the media, but nobody seems to care about what I think.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    247. Re:No kidding... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Whose goal? There are some idiots out there who try that, but I haven't seen all that many. Fortunately, most people are too smart to fall for that, and I can ignore the idiots that do.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    248. Re:No kidding... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Assuming for the sake of argument that you're right on the facts, which I very strongly doubt, what does it matter? There isn't enough violence out there to affect much of anything. Crime rates are a lot lower than they used to be. Most of us left-wing types want to achieve our goals through peaceful means.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    249. Re: No kidding... by ProgrammerInMA · · Score: 1

      Don't confuse conservatism with religion. The two are only existentially related. If someone believes the writings in the Bible, then it clearly states that Homosexuality is a sin. In that case, they feel they can’t just choose to approve of it. As a conservative, and capitalist, I say, do whatever you want. If a homosexual couple wanted me to produce them a web site, then I’d give them a quote. From a personal and political agenda, I have not concerns about how someone find happiness.

    250. Re:No kidding... by slashdotwannabe · · Score: 1

      The LGBT issue effects a tiny percentage of the population. Blowing up this issue into an extinction level event shows how warped the proles are becoming. The majority including myself do not give a shit about this LGBT issue. I am not against anything the LGBT movement is doing but frankly there are more important issues playing out today.

      Who gives a flying fuck what percentage of the population is LGBT? They are ALL citizens, and they ALL deserve the same Constitutional rights that you do. And who the fuck do you think you are determining which issues are "more important" for those people whose rights are being abrogated? You can bet your ass that if it were YOUR rights being denied you'd be out there marching, as well you should be.

      --
      This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
    251. Re: No kidding... by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1
      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    252. Re:No kidding... by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Sorry but I give up. Can't argue with someone who continues to make the same wrong assumptions every time.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    253. Re:No kidding... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah? You don't think you're narrow minded?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    254. Re:No kidding... by MercTech · · Score: 1

      Or, with all of the screaming of "racist", "fascist", "sexist"... people did searches to see if anyone was actually saying racist, sexist, or fascist things. Since the accusations had no validity in context you just have a spike in search history.

      --
      NRRPT/RCT
    255. Re: No kidding... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Of course it's a weak reason. The whole issue is based on weak reasoning. It's social preference stuff. Care to share some of the strong reasoning on the pro-gay marriage side? I've never heard any.

      It's basically the same arguments that one can use for hetero marriage. Relationship stability, love, rearing children, etcetc. Just about any net positive one applies to heterosexual marriage being good apply to gay marriage. Why wouldn't they?

    256. Re: No kidding... by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      What sex acts you find gross?

      Why would we even bring that up? When then teacher tells little Johnny and Sally that when a guy and a girl love each other very much and get married, that sometimes the girl enjoys it when the guy performs cunnilingus on her? Or sometimes she likes it when he does it in the butt instead of the vagina? Is this what you think talking to kids about marriage involves?

      I've noticed a trend among anti-gay marriage advocates. They present heterosexual marriage as being about love, family, and tradition. But if it's gay marriage, then it's clearly about disgusting gay sex. If you're talking about hetero marriage, well that's fine and appropriate, but if you ever talk about gay marriage, then why are you talking about sex to our children??

      It should come as no surprise that gay guys haven't exactly had problems having sex with each other without marriage. Why would they want to get anything near marriage if it's it's a sex thing? To bring up these explicitly sexual themes when trying to drum up a moral panic is.. it's dishonest.

    257. Re:No kidding... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Um, why were you replying to me and agreeing with me in a tone that suggests to me you were disagreeing with me?

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    258. Re:No kidding... by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Because I was disagreeing with you.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    259. Re:No kidding... by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      I take that back... I actually misread your post. Going back and reading it again, I see you said " We shouldn't accuse any individual receiving the resumes of racism or sexism, because we can't tell." Somehow, I missed that the first two times I read your comment.

      Please accept my apologies for the tone of my response, in that case.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    260. Re:No kidding... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      No problem.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  2. Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by HBI · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Vox is a leftist advocacy site and doesn't even try to sugarcoat it.

    I'd like to see you link to something from say, Mike Cernovich. Never will happen, but if you're going to link to this partisan tripe, might as well go both ways.

    --
    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    1. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by Foxhoundz · · Score: 1, Insightful

      What does your crying have to do with the content of the article? Or are we just screaming "fake news!" at the sight of anything that challenges our dissonant views?

    2. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Two thoughts: First, this is just another variant of 'Trump won because people are racist'. Clearly that's true to some degree no doubt, but continuing to act as if that's the rational behind all or even a majority of Trump voters (who were not necessarily Trump supporters, there's a difference) isn't exactly endearing the left to anyone outside the echo chambers, or helping to set up whoever runs in 2020 to do better. If there's on thing the middle/low class white people aren't going to want to hear (again) it is someone from a classist institute like Harvard telling them they are racist.

      Second, when the Clinton campaign said they had the black or Hispanic or women vote, it was in a bragging tone, but when they said Trump had the white male vote, it was an accusation. If you don't like racism, don't fan the flames of it. Identity politics is toxic, and if you play that game and it bites you in the ass, you get what you deserve.

    3. Re: Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because they got it wrong. Someone who Google Obama and KKK is not racist, but wants to know if Democrats have something to do with KKK.

      It is also a cheap try to manifest "racists" and "Trump voters" in people's heads and this is tried again and again until everyone believes it.

      I am not a US citizen, but I can see how media (also here) has a fixed agenda to use Trump for all bad things in this world. This is very obvious.

      I don't block people who have other opinions on social media. I can see what people read on both sides. And last year, I've seen masses of people pro Trump while media had prognosis of 80-90% pro Hillary. It was weird. Later it turned out that New York Times lied to push people to vote for Hillary. This works of course.

      Don't be naive. The media was already criticized some time ago before Trump, not to be able to follow politics properly. They are biased. They add opinions and should report neutral facts.

      From what I can tell the most effective work pro Trump has been done by Wikileaks.

    4. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'd like to see you link to something from say, Mike Cernovich.

      You mean the guy who thinks his cum has magical properties? (No, I'm not joking about that. Well, yeah, I'm joking about it, but it's actually true. Cernovich thinks his pecker-snot is magical.)

      Here, I'll gladly link to something from Mike "Juicebro" Cernovich and his patented "Gorilla Mindset" and patented "nootropics".

      https://wonkette.com/612835/a-...

      And just so you don't think I just picked a left-wing blog in order to show what Mike "Juicebro" Cernovich is about, here's a little something-something about him from the National Review:

      http://www.nationalreview.com/...

      The reason you won't see anything from Mike Cernovich linked here is because he is a goddamned laughing stock.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by rholtzjr · · Score: 2

      Mike who? I'm not even sure I want to follow the links or look him up after your description of him.

    6. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by Powercntrl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Clearly that's true to some degree no doubt, but continuing to act as if that's the rational behind all or even a majority of Trump voters (who were not necessarily Trump supporters, there's a difference) isn't exactly endearing the left to anyone outside the echo chambers, or helping to set up whoever runs in 2020 to do better. If there's on thing the middle/low class white people aren't going to want to hear (again) it is someone from a classist institute like Harvard telling them they are racist.

      For fuck's sake, someone always has to bring up how the "left" would win over Trump supporters, if the left could just stop being so insulting towards them.
      Think about this for a second: These are people who ignored every single repulsive aspect of Trump's policies and the campaign he ran. They willingly voted for a man who said, and I quote "I could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters." Here's a hint: That means even Trump realizes his own supporters are drinking the kool aid.

      These are people who are either completely unwilling to listen to a viewpoint which contradicts their world view, or they actually agree with the deplorable things that come out of Trump's mouth. You're just not going to win over those people; you just have to hope they don't bother to vote, and your side has a better turnout.

      --

      ---
      DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
    7. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by lucm · · Score: 1, Insightful

      are we just screaming "fake news!" at the sight of anything that challenges our dissonant views?

      Well that's what the liberals have done since the end of the primaries.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    8. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      For fuck's sake, someone always has to bring up how the "left" would win over Trump supporters, if the left could just stop being so insulting towards them.

      Who said anything about winning over Trump supporters? I explicitly laid out that there was a difference between Trump supporters and Trump voters. There's people out there who legitimately like and support Trump, despite all the good arguments against him. Of course you're not going to change their minds. But that small percent needed to swing a vote in key states on the other hand, maybe don't insinuate they may be a deplorable?

      Trump did not get my vote. He's an asshole and a lair, and frankly I can't tell if he's yet another richboy using his inherited wealth to screw the rest of us over or if he's just nuttier than squirrel shit. But Clinton didn't get it either. She never indicated that she wanted my vote, so why should I give it? I gave my vote away to a third party candidate who I think is an fool with a terrible ideology simply on the belief that we need more than two parties (though I did so thinking that Clinton was a sure shot for victory).

      So yeah, the left needs to get their shit together, because while the world watches Trump, Trump's cronies like DeVos and Pai are going to do some real damage. Don't mistake criticism of the left for sympathy towards the right. Fact is, the left ran a campaign so shitty that a man who once said "I could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters" got elected. Or they could double down on the same things that lost them the election last time and hope Trump fucks up big enough that enough people will have voter's remorse.

    9. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by Powercntrl · · Score: 1

      But that small percent needed to swing a vote in key states on the other hand, maybe don't insinuate they may be a deplorable?

      More than a few Trump supporters started wearing the "deplorable" insult as if it were a badge of honor. The Hillary supporters did the same thing with the Bad Hombres/Nasty Woman remarks from Trump.

      I'll agree that yeah, the Democrats need to run a better campaign, but if Trump has proven anything, it's that Americans have pretty tough stomachs for raunchy, insult-laden campaigns.

      --

      ---
      DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
    10. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by Powercntrl · · Score: 1

      No, it means hillary was such an undesirable candidate that even that act wouldn't turn people toward her.

      It was still possible to vote against Trump and not vote for Hillary. Granted, it would've also been just as effective to not vote at all, as third party votes are more-or-less a waste.

      And if you're talking about people who are completely unwilling to listen to a viewpoint that contradicts their world view, you might want to see which group of people are the ones trying to shut down opposing viewpoints at university speechs with violent riots and threats.

      Seems like a bad idea to use captive audiences for that sort of thing regardless of which side of the political spectrum you sit on. Simple fix to that: no partisan speakers at university events/graduations. Problem solved.

      --

      ---
      DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
    11. Re: Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Someone who Google Obama and KKK is not racist, but wants to know if Democrats have something to do with KKK."
      This is a very good point and yes the KKK was a strongly democrat organization.

    12. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What does your crying have to do with the content of the article? Or are we just screaming "fake news!" at the sight of anything that challenges our dissonant views?

      That is what I tend to see with the republicans when they try to turn the argument against the other side or what they perceive as the other side.
      Far too often in this society, when discussing anything with these people they quickly turn it into an "I am right and you are an idiot because you don't think like me!" dick swinging contest when normal healthy people exchange their viewpoints on a topic, which is what is normal for a healthy discussion between friends.

      I am starting to agree with the person that said years ago that extreme political conservatism might be a sign of a mental disorder.

    13. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by bradley13 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Typical Vox article, where "pro-Trump" = "racist". Continuing to deny even the remotest possibility that Hillary! was just too corrupt for many people to swallow, and that she is indicative of the political elite orchestrating the presidential election.

      Bernie was never meant to be a real threat to Hillary! but the D constituents are just as fed up with the 1% as anyone else. Even without those carefully crafted primary rules, Bernie almost got out of control. The R side of the equation didn't have those rules in place, so Jeb did get displaced. That left Trump-the-outsider running against Hillary!-the-corrupt, and that's why he won.

      It seems to me that even progressive publications like Vox would see through what's going on here. It's no longer (only) progressive vs. conservative. This is a different battle, orthogonal to the first one: it's the political elite pulling the levers behind the scenes, vs. actually having control of your own government.

      --
      Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    14. Re: Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by koomba · · Score: 1

      It's really not though, he isn't saying that's what won the election. He even explicitly states that it is *not* a large portion of the population, saying "the typical American isn't racist." But he points out, rightfully so IMO, that even a relatively small group can cause a lot of problems and really be toxic for society at large.

    15. Re: Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by Powercntrl · · Score: 1

      I am not a US citizen, but I can see how media (also here) has a fixed agenda to use Trump for all bad things in this world. This is very obvious.

      The media here is less about trying to convince one side to vote for the other and more about being an echo chamber of what you wanna hear, so you don't change the channel. In other words, they're preaching to their respective choirs.

      If you ask me, traditional media had very little to do with Trump winning. Trump won because we (collectively, as Americans) have this idea of American exceptionalism. Trump did a great job appealing to that sense of entitlement. His supporters latched onto it and spread it in a shockingly effective grassroots movement through social media.

      --

      ---
      DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
    16. Re: Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by Powercntrl · · Score: 1

      From a psychological viewpoint you only ever have a small chance of getting someone to change an avowed POV. Do you think that calling these _voters_ idiots and racists is the most effective use of that chance?

      Or you could try to convince some of the approximately 90 million Americans who *didn't* vote that they should give a damn.

      There's this old saying about never teaching a pig to sing, because it wastes your time and annoys the pig. Trying to get someone to change their already-established political views is likely on a similar level of futility.

      --

      ---
      DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
    17. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      More than a few Trump supporters started wearing the "deplorable" insult as if it were a badge of honor.

      Of course they did.

      They are laughing at you and your stupid identity politics.

      You are a joke to them because of it, so they laugh at you.


      What did you expect those millions of people to do... sit back, cry, and profess to the world how virtuous you are for labeling them?

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    18. Re: Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Part of the issue is that the Democrats can't even do math here.

      When asked about her weakness among white middle class voters, Hillary literally said that she would more than make up the difference with minorities.

      She believed it for sure, because thats the only way to explain her deplorable's comment.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    19. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by Z80a · · Score: 1

      I think a factor that might have influenced is a certain mindset of the left leaning individuals, specially the one with cash of "why lose my time engaging with a right wing and trying to convince him if i can just engage with someone that can ban him and all his friends?".
      I sadly seem this statement being said over and over and over again.

    20. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 2

      "Broken multiple stories", by just making shit up, you mean.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    21. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by Evtim · · Score: 1

      Seconded! I went through the same transition. Incidentally, I was the only one in my immediate surrounding that saw Trump coming [not that I support him; also as no-US citizen I could not vote]. Somebody above objected that the arrogance of the left could never be the reason for people switching to Trump. I agree with that actually, but almost half the population did not vote - it was those people that the Democrats failed to engage....

      Finally, the perfect illustration of yours and my sentiments - https://www.amazon.com/Girls-N...

    22. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's why he beat everyone on Susan Rice.

      That story turned out to be fake.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    23. Re: Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by stdarg · · Score: 1

      Great post. Another example that really stuck out in my mind was back in the Bush era. Some researchers decided that major news organizations in the US are ALL right wing or center right. Even blatantly left leaning organizations like NPR were labeled as right wing. I read their methodology and found that they categorized it by the number of times certain people's names were mentioned. "Bush" mentions were attributed to the right wing column. So they were counting stories like "Bush is a war criminal" as "leaning right."

    24. Re: Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      I disagree entirely. The media was 100% complicit in the last election cycle. They got CAUGHT cheating to help Hillary beat Bernie Sanders. They got CAUGHT feeding debate questions to Hillary's campaign team both during the primaries and general election, so that she would not be discovered to be the blundering idiot she really is, taking credit for everyone elses works. Thats not preaching to the chior. Thats not an echo chamber. That is direct voter tampering. Everyone is soooo on this whole Russia Made Me Do It campaign. Why? Because the media wants you looking at Russia's ATTEMPT instead of what the MEDIA SUCCEEDED IN DOING. The media DID tamper with, and attempt to influence the election. If we are going to have an honest debate about Election tampering and influence, fake news, etc, then THEY ALSO need to be held against the very measure of the definition.

    25. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      and 20 years of Reality TV shows were not an indication of this? This political system is nothing but a giant reality TV show. The loudest, most public faces of both parties, are more or less your Snookies and Honey Booboo's of the world. Just 2 days ago I read a NYT article citing 3 different law professors that say its impossible for Trump to obstruct an investigation by firing Comey because all investigations begin and end at his exclusive authority and therefore by ending an investigation it cannot be ruled obstruction. That sure as hell hasn't stopped the headlines in the last 2 days throwing out the impeach word again. Its a reality dog-and-pony show. Nobody is going to get impeached. Its politially advantageous to keep beating this drum and PRETENDING to do something than actually doing it. This is going to get drug out for 3.5 more years. Its all part of the show.

    26. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      They did not vote because many were democrats that could not bring themselves to vote for Hillary. Its not that the democrats failed to engage, but they chose 'their evil' instead of picking someone else. Not everyone goes to the polls torn between voting for the _perceived_ lesser of two evils. I would say nearly 90 million chose not to vote at all. I would also say that the media's deliberate altering of poll data in order to convince people to 'vote with the clear majority' also backfired as it got more to stay at home since 'she was already going to win'.

    27. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      He claimed there was more than one shooter in the Orlando, FL night club shooting and accused the media and government of a "cover-up".

      He claimed Trump flubbed the first presidential debate because “the microphones were set up to make Trump sound unlike his usual self.”

      He started the baseless rumor that Hillary was at death's door.

      He was majorly responsible for "pizza-gate" even being a thing.

      He believes that his sperm is some kind of "super serum" that will make women fall in love with him.

      He makes claims that date rape simply doesn't exist, and that it doesn't matter if you lie or cheat or are overly aggressive, as long as you're "alpha".

      In short, he's nothing but a spoiled manchild, hopped up on his own bullshit.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    28. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by PJ6 · · Score: 1

      Typical Vox article, where "pro-Trump" = "racist". Continuing to deny even the remotest possibility that Hillary! was just too corrupt for many people to swallow, and that she is indicative of the political elite orchestrating the presidential election.

      Bernie was never meant to be a real threat to Hillary! but the D constituents are just as fed up with the 1% as anyone else. Even without those carefully crafted primary rules, Bernie almost got out of control. The R side of the equation didn't have those rules in place, so Jeb did get displaced. That left Trump-the-outsider running against Hillary!-the-corrupt, and that's why he won.

      It seems to me that even progressive publications like Vox would see through what's going on here. It's no longer (only) progressive vs. conservative. This is a different battle, orthogonal to the first one: it's the political elite pulling the levers behind the scenes, vs. actually having control of your own government.

      You may personally support (or not support) Trump for other reasons, but he was definitely race-baiting.

      Race-baiting has been a serious problem in American politics for a very long time. Slinging "leftist" at those that point it out hurts our ability to talk about it and try to deal with it.

      And here is the other major arc of democracy, if that book doesn't depress you enough.

    29. Re:Nice leftist echo chamber you got here by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Typical Vox article, where "pro-Trump" = "racist". Continuing to deny even the remotest possibility that Hillary! was just too corrupt for many people to swallow,

      You seem to be contradicting yourself. People didn't become pro-Trump because they were anti-Clinton, they just voted for him. Being pro-Trump, not just voting for Trump, is being for racism, sexism, and entitlement.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  3. Fascinating by Jzanu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While this is only partially damning to the US compared to the thousands of other things it is failing at, this method of data collection ignores the need for sampling. Even taking a census of collected data is nothing but a biased sample due to the sheer quantity of data that is never entered into a google search. At best the changes in frequencies may show the behavior of whatever subset of the area targeted participates, but it remains a convenience sample with limited use in larger inference.

    1. Re:Fascinating by dbIII · · Score: 1

      While this is only partially damning to the US

      Not much point naming the country either - a wildcard could have been used because everywhere is more racist and selfish than advertised especially when as you suggested it's a self-selected group skewing the results.

    2. Re:Fascinating by Altrag · · Score: 1

      Umm say what?

      this method of data collection ignores the need for sampling

      Sampling of what? We take samples in the real world when we don't have the ability to collect full data sets, and then we use statistics to extrapolate those samples out. If we have the full data set to start with, what's the point in sampling and having to revert to statistical methods to back-fill the stuff that we just finished intentionally removing?

      a biased sample

      Biased in what way? Google's database gives not one whit about your race, sex, gender identity, political or religious beliefs, or anything else. Its about the most unbiased sample you can get (but not quite -- there's a bias against the underprivileged since many of them don't have computer access and thus won't be using Google or any other search engine.) There's also an obvious bias against Bing users, but nobody cares about them anyway :P.

      data that is never entered into a google search

      Examples? I can't think of anything a person would be interested in that they don't have or want to search for more information about.. and Google is, by a very very large margin, the primary place people go to do that. They're not considered a monopoly due to their fancy top hats.

      show the behavior of whatever subset of the area targeted participates

      Which is fine when that subset is 80% of the population, with no reason to believe that the other 20% of the population that uses Bing or other search engines would have radically different queries (again, with the one bias being against the underprivileged who don't use any search engine.)

      limited use in larger inference.

      Larger than what? That's literally the largest data set (about people's general interests) that we've ever collected. I can't see how using a smaller data set would net you better results.

      The only real argument you could make is maybe questioning whether Google is massaging the data in a way that would make it unsuitable to this sort of analysis (and then the next question is how would we know that unless they tell us themselves?) And of course if you try to apply the data to an inappropriate subject, your results will likely be garbage, but that goes for any data set. Trying to claim that its not a sufficiently large data set seems a little bit silly though.

    3. Re:Fascinating by Jzanu · · Score: 1

      No. Sampling theory is also the foundation of inferential statistics. See W.E. Deming "Some Theory of Sampling" (1950). Error in statistical estimation is fundamentally either bias or stochastic. A sampling defect introduces a systemic data collection flaw which means all statistics calculated from it do not estimate the population parameters they are being used to imitate.

      In this case that means the data collected from google searches isn't indicative in any way of what Americans as a whole (or any other group for that matter) think, believe, or have influencing their behavior. Data not entered into google searches includes why terms are entered, the terms thought but not entered, the terms modified by google's previews of popular search terms, the indication that a user entered them rather than a machine, etc.

      One final point before you go home to study some real statistics. Assumptions without validation make everything useless.

    4. Re:Fascinating by Altrag · · Score: 1

      Sampling theory is also the foundation of inferential statistics

      Sure. But my question is still why you would want to use statistics and extrapolate to a full data set when you have a full data set to start with.

      If you want to know how many people ate eggs for breakfast today, you have two choices: Ask every single person, or ask a sample of people and come up with a statistical distribution. The former will give you an exact number, but is impractical for a large population (say, everyone in the US.) The latter is more practical sure, but it only gives you an approximation with an error margin. Yes statistics do a very good job of filling in when we can't directly sample every individual, but by definition they can never be as accurate as actually being able to sample every individual.

      That said, I wasn't intending to imply Google's data set is perfect, or even complete (and I specifically stated a couple of ways where its obviously not going to be.)
        My question was more along the lines of asking what you would consider to be a better data set. You made a whole bunch of statements claiming that using Google is bad almost to the point of useless, but without any indication as to why you believe that to be the case, or what data set you think they should be using instead.

      As for some of your specifics,

      why terms are entered

      Presumably, because people want an answer to their query. I suppose you might want to validate that assumption just in case there's armies of people out there randomly entering queries regarding things they don't care about to skew the data significantly, but I'm feeling fairly confident in my assumption that the vast majority of searches are done by people looking for actual search results.

      the terms thought but not entered

      True, but I'd put the onus on you to try and prove that this wouldn't apply to any other method of data collection as well. Until we invent mind reading, there will always be things people think but don't say, in every context.

      he terms modified by google's previews of popular search terms

      Now we're getting into things that might legitimately skew the results in at least moderate ways. I would hesitate again to suggest this is unique to Google (how many surveys exist where the wording of the questions ends up being deemed as self-biasing?) That said though, the fact that someone selected the completion from the drop down still shows interest in the term, and (again presumably) the drop down was at least fairly closely related to their original intended search or it wouldn't be a useful feature of the search box in the first place.

      the indication that a user entered them rather than a machine

      That one's entirely on Google to try and detect and merge or otherwise remove automated searches from their statistics. I have no idea if they even attempt to do so, though I imagine the probably do since advertisers don't want to be paying for robot eyes.
        This kind of gets into the issue of Google massaging the data in unknown ways as I mentioned, and that's definitely a valid concern when using Google's data as the basis for your claims.

      And of course you didn't mention a few other potential issues. Language for one. I bet you get a lot more Spanish searches in SoCal than you do in Colorado for example. TFA doesn't say whether that kind of thing was accounted for (though hopefully the actual paper would have at least mentioned it.) Of course again, to suggest that this makes Google worse than other methods you would have to show how those other methods avoid the language issue (and there has been no shortage of complaints about much psychology research -- especially older stuff -- being biased toward white, college-age Americans due to them being a ready sample for many researchers to use.)

    5. Re:Fascinating by Jzanu · · Score: 1

      Because there is no "full" data set. The available data is simply a very badly collected sample because it fails to capture any of the actual generating process. This produces inherent errors including bias (persistent error, since you are confused). The examples were not specifics but the simple product of a few minutes of thought from a trained statistician. There are an unlimited number, because the frame for any of the analysis done wasn't defined before the data was collected and didn't inform the process in any way. You should read that book by Deming.

    6. Re:Fascinating by Altrag · · Score: 1

      Again, I'm not disagreeing that Google isn't really a "full" data set, but its a very large data set and any biases (aside from Google's possible hidden data massaging) should be fairly easy to identify and adjusted for -- or at least no harder than doing so for any other data set.

      So what I'm asking, as a not-statistician, is what I'm missing that would allow you to generate a better set of data either with no biases (which I would find hard to believe,) or with some guarantee that all biases can be known and accounted for in a way that's impossible to do on the Google data set.

      I'm probably not going to go out and buy a book to justify a Slashdot post, but giving me a TL;DR of why I'm wrong (and more importantly, why the paper's author -- who presumably is also an actual statistician -- is wrong) rather than just arbitrarily claiming so based on "a few minutes of thought" would be helpful.

    7. Re:Fascinating by Jzanu · · Score: 1

      The problem is you don't understand what sampling is, what it is sued for. Doing your own research and independent study is the only way to fix the defects in your knowledge. Decent conversation, you do have some skill but it needs to be harnessed with reality and the significant body of statistical knowledge we have already built up. Don't get side tracked with machine learning which just duplicates statistical theory, spend your time learning the real stuff. The book is so old you can find a PDF for free online easily, although it is that older version that is not as well organized as the second edition. Try it.

      The TLDR equivalent response is that the applications to which this data is being applied now need to have been considered from the beginning. The precise population identified must then by sampled in a way that the resulting sample is actually representative, so that the probability models can be applied validly. For a study with any behavioral modeling intent the data collection should have been form more than just a google search, and requires a well developed survey design and unbiased questionnaire, as well as follow up contacts for non-responses. As stated originally this study is a bad convenience sample, composed of only those terms submitted to a google search, so it can't represent any behavior.

    8. Re:Fascinating by Jzanu · · Score: 1

      In short all this data means and all it can mean: with a convenience sample collected before and after phases of a US election, the proportion of politically related phrases (see attached list 1) with racist or abusive phrasing (see attached list 2) increased within this data, on the basis of our weighting (see procedures section), for the censored (lost input values, adjustments ignored) data set of google searches, between groups so divided (with no effort to model autocorrelation in any variables). This has no definite relationship to a geographic area but only an IP range, or to people using that range. This frequency has no definite relationship to people (includes automated entries), and has no definite relationship to Americans or any other national groups (no stratified or any other sampling designs were used). Data collection was limited to freely available sources with no attempt to represent any smaller markets or bracketed to eligible voters by age, convict status, etc. And includes unidentified input from individuals with diagnosed psychological and medical conditions.

  4. fart [fahrt] Vulgar. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    When I was a kid, we used to look up "fart" in the dictionaries in the school library.

    People are vulgar morons. We're idiots. We do stupid things and get a laugh out of them. Google didn't do anything that wasn't already done before (except track it all for advertising purposes).

    fart [fahrt] Vulgar.
    noun
    1. a flatus expelled through the anus.
    2. an irritating or foolish person.
    verb (used without object)
    3. to expel a flatus through the anus; break wind.
    Verb phrases
    4. fart around, to spend time foolishly or aimlessly.

  5. All of a sudden? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    So after decades and decades of diminishing racism all of a sudden America becomes a nazi state? Puh-leese Boris.

    1. Re:All of a sudden? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Diminishing racism was a problem to those who want to control others, so they started these divide and conquer campaigns that convinced the public that every other race was the cause of all their problems. White people were the cause of all black people's ills, blacks were the problems in white societies, Mexicans were taking all the American jobs, whites had stolen Mexican land which needed to be taken back, and Muslims had to be shoved into vastly differing-in-ideology Western countries en masse without any time for assimilation knowing this would be a powder keg. They'd force extremely rare minority issues like "trans*" to the forefront and give it top priority, demanding people spend money and time to accommodate them, and anyone who said "no" would be branded some sort of -phobic and demonized.

      Identity politics allows those in power to rule over the masses while they fight among themselves. There are some that get paid to promote this attack line, and there are those ideologists (usually young and naive) who were duped into doing it for free, thinking they were supporting some higher cause.

    2. Re:All of a sudden? by swillden · · Score: 1

      So after decades and decades of diminishing racism all of a sudden America becomes a nazi state? Puh-leese Boris.

      I don't think America changed all of a sudden, and I think that racism has been diminishing... but I think we've discovered over the last year that it hasn't diminished nearly as much as we thought it had. Most of the diminishment has been real, especially in the younger generations, but it appears that a significant amount of it has just gone underground. Trump's racist, sexist, anti-Islam, etc. comments signaled that it was okay to be a bigot, and that caused a lot of the underground bigotry to surface. Whatever you think about this particular report based on Google searches, there's lots and lots of evidence of an apparent resurgence of bigotry in the US.

      I also think a lot of the resurgence started before Trump got on his bully pulpit, and in fact that resurgence is a big part of what made his candidacy viable. What caused it? I think it was mostly Obama. Not that Obama did much, if anything, to stoke racial resentment (many conservatives disagree with me on this, including my wife), but the mere fact of his presidency was a signal to black Americans that a corner had been turned on racial issues and that in turn encouraged them to complain more loudly about long-standing, ongoing, systematic racism, especially in the justice system. Thus, the election of a black (well, brownish) man as president apparently provoked loud and occasionally violent complaints about racial oppression of blacks. To people who were oblivious to the remaining systematic oppression, it looked like Obama's election created racial tension that wasn't there before. But it was, it was just hidden.

      The "newly-discovered" racial tension increased discussion and debate of racial issues, highlighting more of them, resulting in more white people being told that they need to change to fix problems they didn't see, resulting in more racial tension, etc. And many people found Trump to be an outlet for their frustration, whether because they were closet racists who suddenly felt freed to say what they really thought, or because they were not-really-racists who had been unknowingly benefiting from systematic racism and were tired of being called racists for it.

      Some of my conservative friends argue that this is a bad thing, that it would have been better to let the simmering, sub-rosa racial tension remain below the surface. Some of my liberal friends argue that this is fantastic, that we're finally outing the racists they knew were there. Personally, I think it's a mixed bag. Clearly, there are still significant racially-based problems in America, and if we can't talk about them, they aren't going to get fixed. Systemic oppression isn't just going to go away on its own. On the other hand, I think there is some potential to actually harden resistance, to encourage some percentage of the young population to defiantly adopt open racism. Letting it simmer for another generation or so could have made the problems much easier to handle, especially since the country is headed for whites becoming a minority. But, letting it simmer would be very unfair to all of the people who get systematically oppressed while we all ignore the issue.

      So, on balance, I think I end up siding with the liberals (though still being annoyed with their shrill self-righteousness) and agreeing that bringing the festering infection to the surface is a good thing. But it's not going to be pleasant.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    3. Re:All of a sudden? by eaglesrule · · Score: 1

      Trump's racist, sexist, anti-Islam, etc. comments signaled that it was okay to be a bigot, and that caused a lot of the underground bigotry to surface.

      If there was signaling that it was ok to be a bigot, it didn't happen with Trump. Have a look at the events of Evergreen college, and the 'black lives matter' vrs 'all lives matter' debate. It seems as if Trump and his predecessors were not elected president, but Ultimate Scapegoat.

      Some of my liberal friends argue that this is fantastic, that we're finally outing the racists they knew were there.

      It is racist to expect immigration law to be applied equally to all nationalities. It is racist to object to the qualities of a culture that promote crime and disparage education. It is racist to have a conversation about race that includes statistical data, or detect any form of consistent pattern that may be construed as having negative connotations. It is racist to object to reverse racism, because reasons.

      Then they wonder how racist, bigoted attitudes persist and fester, as people see others have their speech curtailed under unfair accusations as the bar for being a racist is set so low that even Cardinal Richelieu would blush. Unfair accusations that anymore can cost you your career, your livelihood, your reputation... Some of your liberal friends are worse assholes than the genuine racists out there.

  6. Conclusions by rationale by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While this is only partially damning to the US compared to the thousands of other things it is failing at, this method of data collection ignores the need for sampling. Even taking a census of collected data is nothing but a biased sample due to the sheer quantity of data that is never entered into a google search. At best the changes in frequencies may show the behavior of whatever subset of the area targeted participates, but it remains a convenience sample with limited use in larger inference.

    And further, it draws conclusions about the data by "rationale". Explaining a reasonable-sounding rationale for the data is not the same as testing a hypothesis.

    For example, I'm sure "severed head of Donald Trump" was a big search item a couple of weeks ago. Did this mean that a large part of the population wanted to do him harm?

    A lot of people have been searching "Jihad" recently. Can you conclude anything about the people doing the searches, other than they heard something in the news and wanted to find out more?

    Could it be that people google things that appear to be are racist and selfish because... they wanted to find out more about what's going on?

    1. Re:Conclusions by rationale by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Did this mean that a large part of the population wanted to do him harm?

      Well, more Americans want to see Trump impeached than support him. That's been shown in many polls (including those with moving averages over time).

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:Conclusions by rationale by lucm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      more Americans want to see Trump impeached than support him.

      In other words, "vote for my candidate or we'll impeach yours".

      <- North Korea is this way, you may find that country more suitable to your interpretation of democracy

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    3. Re:Conclusions by rationale by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      A lot of people have been searching "Jihad" recently. Can you conclude anything about the people doing the searches, other than they heard something in the news and wanted to find out more?

      Perhaps they have been reading "Dune"? That's where I first came across the word, decades ago.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    4. Re:Conclusions by rationale by Rekso · · Score: 1

      google should look up other countries too, they are a lot of racist and selfish people compare to us

    5. Re:Conclusions by rationale by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 1

      Maybe there was a big "Huckleberry Finn" book report due that week.

    6. Re:Conclusions by rationale by nasch · · Score: 1

      True, but "I hate Muslims"? "Kill Muslims"? Some of the search terms seem pretty clear cut. And no, someone looking to understand the mindset of people who hate Muslims is probably not going to google "I hate Muslims". More likely something like "why do people hate Muslims".

    7. Re:Conclusions by rationale by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Well, more Americans want to see Trump impeached than support him. That's been shown in many polls (including those with moving averages over time).

      Why You Should Be Skeptical About Polls on Impeaching Trump

      "What it says to you is basically the electorate doesn't fully understand impeachment," he told TIME. "Their understanding of impeachment is I'm sending a message of disapproval."

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    8. Re:Conclusions by rationale by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Thats it... you found the truth if it...

      Everything I type into a google search is a reflection on you and the millions of other people that exists while I type it in.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    9. Re:Conclusions by rationale by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      are these the same polls that deliberately added fake points to Hillary to solicit more votes and call a close election? Polls are as worthless as tits on a bull. One of the many Wikileaks from the DNC campain was how they used tricks to skew polls to make them look better. It was also revealed that NYT deliberately ran 3 week old poll numbers instead of recent ones because they didnt like the results.

    10. Re:Conclusions by rationale by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      In other words, you'll twist meanings until you find one that suits you. It's reasonable to want Trump impeached for the things he's done since inauguration. It isn't political revenge, it's that Trump has disgusted millions of Americans.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    11. Re:Conclusions by rationale by lucm · · Score: 1

      It's reasonable to want Trump impeached for the things he's done since inauguration.

      No.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    12. Re:Conclusions by rationale by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      It seems extremely likely that he violated one or other of the emoluments clauses. Flagrantly and explicitly and clearly violating the Constitution is grounds for impeachment.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  7. Shows Effectiveness of Censorship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This just shows how effective censorship has been. People no longer feel free to express their personal views, particularly when it's related to race, Islam or feminist issues. It's very dangerous to society that diversity of ideas is no longer tolerated. We're in a situation were, even if things are clearly going very wrong, everyone will be too scared to point it out.

    This is precisely why Trump was elected. He's one of few people prepared to voice ideas contrary to those of the establishment. It's rather sad that only people with the security of being a billionaire are free to voice their opinions.

    1. Re:Shows Effectiveness of Censorship by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I express my personal views on race, sex, Islam, and feminism and lots of other things. Lots of people disagree with me (actually, most people disagree with me on some things), but nobody's done anything to me but disagree with me and insult me*. If you feel intimidated, that's your problem. Go ahead and express your opinions. It's almost certain that nobody's going to hurt you for it.

      The "establishment" includes a considerable variety of ideas. Ted Cruz and Hillary Clinton have very different ideas on a lot of things, and both of them did very well in the nomination process. Sanders was neither a billionaire or part of the establishment, and he certainly expressed his opinions.

      Trump felt free to be an asshole and a liar, primarily. Regrettably, that is why quite a few people voted for him.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  8. Damn, slashdot! by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Slashdot has been bloody awful lately.

    Pointless political articles and click-bait headlines with little or no tech aspect, just what the audience wants to see!

    1. Re:Damn, slashdot! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is what you want.

      Don't you remember how the Howard Stern movie put it?

      But... if they hate him, why do they listen?

      Most common answer? "I want to see what he'll say next."

      That's the choice you made, and you know it. If you don't like it, you can always walk away.

    2. Re:Damn, slashdot! by Cobratek · · Score: 1

      <quote><p>Slashdot has been bloody awful lately.</p><p>Pointless political articles and click-bait headlines with little or no tech aspect, just what the audience wants to see!</p></quote>

      The political BS has been happening for a long while.  This was such a great site for tech in the beginning.  I don't hang around here much anymore.

      --
      DONT TREAD ON ME MOÎΩN ÎABÃ
    3. Re:Damn, slashdot! by lucm · · Score: 1

      <quote><p>Slashdot has been bloody awful lately.</p><p>Pointless political articles and click-bait headlines with little or no tech aspect, just what the audience wants to see!</p></quote>

      The political BS has been happening for a long while. This was such a great site for tech in the beginning. I don't hang around here much anymore.

      I had to reply just to see how you managed to get that fucked up formatting

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    4. Re:Damn, slashdot! by LabRatty · · Score: 1

      Anand still for hardware, and Blue's News is still going strong for games after all these years, but something to fill the gap /. used to hold, not so much.

    5. Re:Damn, slashdot! by nnull · · Score: 1

      I'm done with this place. Slashdot is just terrible.

    6. Re:Damn, slashdot! by trawg · · Score: 1

      Well, they got what, three extra page loads from you writing that, so it will just reinforce their page impression count & thus make it seem like it's a good idea to keep writing this stuff :)

      I browse Slashdot via RSS and refuse to click on [what seem to me to be] flamebait articles.

      I actually thought this would be kind of interesting which is why I'm here but (as usual) it degenerated into left vs right bullshit as everyone pushes their respective extreme agendas.

    7. Re:Damn, slashdot! by Simulant · · Score: 1

      This is the closest thing I've found to the old slashdot: https://news.ycombinator.com/
      Let's keep it that way.

  9. Re:The thing that gets me about electing Trump... by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

    Do you realize the Pee Wee Herman is just a character? That Paul Reubens made up the character to entertain people? That Paul Reubens is actually acting a part when playing Pee Wee Herman?

    These seem obvious questions, but your focusing on the persona of a host of a TV show, rather than the guy playing the part, says that you don't get that distinction.

    --
    If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
  10. We are ahead of the times here on Slashdot by Breconides · · Score: 1

    We've been proving this point for years on the comments section of Slashdot. We didn't need a study to show us about racist or selfish people. Another example of a needless study...

  11. Re:The thing that gets me about electing Trump... by RyanFenton · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes - but the point here is that he made it his purpose to portray a legitimately evil person, at least in the classic role-playing definition of evil - where he was actively willing to harm people for his own benefit constantly and with cruelty... and he stuck to that personality the entire time.

    And THAT is what the people elected. Which is especially odd, given the supposedly Christian notion the nation has for itself. Jesus' perspective on the rich, and on selfishness is basically most of the new testament.

  12. Content of the Article by Kunedog · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What does your crying have to do with the content of the article? Or are we just screaming "fake news!" at the sight of anything that challenges our dissonant views?

    Since it sounds like you've read the article, maybe you could answer this question: Did they track all racism, or just the racism they disagreed with? If so, then in what regions of the country was anti-white racism concentrated (or fast-growing)?

    Far be it from me to suggest Vox (and the "researcher") are just partisan hacks who would selectively ignore (and even promote) the racism they agree with, but that info is missing from TFS (and the headline refers to "racist" people in general).

    1. Re: Content of the Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Apparently "Fox" is a magic word you can use to dismiss any comment.

    2. Re:Content of the Article by lorinc · · Score: 1

      Straw-man argument detected!

      It's not because there is anti-white racism that all other racism is fine and should not be addressed.

      Moreover, the article is not detailing which kind of racism: "Stephens-Davidowitz saw in the Google Trends data a racially polarized electorate, and one primed to respond to the ethno-nationalist rhetoric of Trump." I read that as all ${COLOR}-supremacists being more vocal than before because Trump is adding fuel to the fire.

      If you are really concerned about anti-white racism, then you should understand that this is a global issue and that all racism, without any distinction, should be eradicated because that's the only way to make your concern disappear. As such, you should be concerned by TFA because it shows the goal is further away than expected.

    3. Re: Content of the Article by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      no such thing as reverse racism.... only racism...and ANYONE can be racist

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  13. Re:The thing that gets me about electing Trump... by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    but your focusing on the persona of a host of a TV show, rather than the guy playing the part

    I haven't seen that much Apprentice, but I'm not seeing a lot of daylight between Trump the tv persona and Trump the politician.

    --
    Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
  14. Re:The thing that gets me about electing Trump... by Orgasmatron · · Score: 1

    I think you might be wandering into the realm of hyperbole here. I mean sure, his character could be cruel sometimes, but not always. Often, it was done in good fun. And it was obvious that in his heart, he believed that he was doing what he thought was best for everyone, in the long run.

    And besides, how evil is it, really, to trick people into saying the magic word? And it isn't like his chair was actually eating anyone.

    Wait, which one were we talking about again?

    P.S. You might want to read the new testament again. And this time, pay attention.

    --
    See that "Preview" button?
  15. Re:The thing that gets me about electing Trump... by lucm · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The choice was either that arrogant person, or a person who literally stole furniture from the White House and had goons persecute women to make them withdraw their rape accusations against her husband. I'd say America showed common sense, given the options.

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  16. "not merely in the South" by AdamStarks · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As if to say "We all agree to assume that the South is generally racist, but did you also know that the North also has some racism?"

    I'm not going to say the South doesn't have a problem with racism, but a kind of "Our shit stinks less than yours" presumption comes across, whether or not it's intended. It's a specific example of the broader issue of cultural elitism, alongside making fun of rednecks, assuming those with drawls are stupid, and calling Californians ditzes.

    I myself am not a target of any of these kinds of slights. My accent is (mostly) all-American, I work in the tech industry, and I've lived in and/or visited plenty of different cities/states/countries, so I have the privilege to pretend these little jabs aren't aimed at me. But how's about we stop with bigotry, on all ends? Don't assume black people are lazy, don't assume women give a shit about your feelings, don't assume gay men want to fuck you, and don't assume southerners are ignorant. Such a thing is at best a roundabout way of navigating your foot into your mouth.

    None of this really has anything to do with the article itself, but rather some minor phrasing at the end of the summary. Just like CowboyNeal intended.

    1. Re: "not merely in the South" by amiga3D · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I remember as a child in Georgia I was going to racially integrated schools watching buses burning in Boston. It never occurred to me that the North wasn't integrated already. Then when I joined the US Air Force in 1979 I went to tech school and going to my room and seeing my room mate had a Confederate Flag, the Stars and Bars, on his wall. I asked him where he was from thinking Carolinas or maybe Alabama. Imagine my surprise to find out he was a Yankee from New York. He loved Lynyrd Skynyrd too, he had Gimme 3 Steps blaring on the stereo. I had grown up around black people and found his attitude offensive even compared to what I was used to at home. Some of the people I met in the military from Ohio and such places were even worse.

    2. Re: "not merely in the South" by Mal-2 · · Score: 1

      I don't think there's much dispute that Japan has a problem with xenophobia in general, but I'm surprised to hear that the employees from Japan had any more problem with you than with any other gaijin.

      --
      How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
    3. Re: "not merely in the South" by skam240 · · Score: 1

      I'm not going to take the time to site sources but I've heard similar stories about the Japanese and their extra negative opinion of blacks versus whites.

      --
      I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
    4. Re: "not merely in the South" by hey! · · Score: 1

      But how's about we stop with bigotry, on all ends?

      Sounds great, but I think I see a problem: bigotry is a cognitive bias. You might as well say, "How about we get rid of confirmation bias?"

      You don't eradicate cognitive biases; they're baked in by millions of years of evolution. You mitigate them through education. You mitigate the Gambler's Fallacy by teaching people probability.

      The problem with bigotry is it really hits us where we live: in issues of social status and survival; in belonging and exclusion. Bigotry is unique among the cognitive biases in its power to elicit shame.

      Shame may be the single most painful negative emotion there is. People will die rather than experience it. So there's a simple-minded assumption that shame being so powerful, it ought to be a handy tool for behavior control. Actually it sucks for that purpose, precisely because it is so powerful. If you could tone it down to, say, mild chagrin, people would be eager to examine their bigoted attitudes critically. But faced with full-blown shame people will counterfeit the appearance of respectability while secretly harboring their beliefs, rationalizing them and quietly seeking out like-minded people.

      Arguably selective forgetting is much more productive than being forced to continually defend the past. Where I live in Boston people are very proud of our Pilgrim and colonial heritage; we don't think much about hanging Quakers on the Common or the exchanges of genocidal terror attacks in King William's War. We treat the Salem Witch trials as a joke, but twenty-five people were killed, a phenomenal number considering the entire population of the colony was less than 40,000.

      And yet, because we're not ashamed of our sordid past, there aren't people trying to keep the anti-Quaker sentiment alive. It's not because we're better than places that have active KKK chapters; it's that we feel free to pick and choose which part of our heritage to celebrate.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    5. Re: "not merely in the South" by russotto · · Score: 1

      So you're saying he had this flag on his wall.

    6. Re: "not merely in the South" by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      The flag didn't bother me and I love Skynyrd it was the rest of it that was offensive. Even though my Dad by today's standards would be considered racist, the N word was forbidden in my house. My father didn't consider black people his equal (although frankly I don't think my Dad really considered anyone his equal) but he never believed in mistreating anyone. I remember watching race riots on TV in the 60s and my Dad saying "We committed a terrible sin in bringing those people here and making slaves of them, and now we're going to pay for it."

    7. Re: "not merely in the South" by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      Yes, that one. Not the Battle Flag but the Confederate Government flag. I was surprised but then I realized why he did it. Not many outside of the South know the official flag, most think of the Battle Flag.

  17. Re:So I guess... by lucm · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's racist and sexist not to vote Democrat. That's why the Democrats tend to murder or try to impeach presidents when they lose their elections; they're trying to save the country.

    You think I'm kidding, but I remember a song by spoken word artist Shane Koyczan. He said: "Strange in a George W. Bush hasn't been assassinated yet kind of way".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    Hear the crowd laugh and applause. Those are the people who see themselves as the "tolerant" side.

    I wonder what he has to say about Trump.

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  18. Re:The thing that gets me about electing Trump... by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

    I think you might be wandering into the realm of hyperbole here. I mean sure, his character could be cruel sometimes, but not always. Often, it was done in good fun. And it was obvious that in his heart, he believed that he was doing what he thought was best for everyone, in the long run.

    And besides, how evil is it, really, to trick people into saying the magic word? And it isn't like his chair was actually eating anyone.

    Wait, which one were we talking about again?

    OK, you got me with that one. I started to think maybe I should have watched The Apprentice, it seems really more interesting than I thought.

    P.S. You might want to read the new testament again. And this time, pay attention.

    Like most people, he wants to focus on the soundbites.

    --
    If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
  19. Re:The thing that gets me about electing Trump... by rholtzjr · · Score: 1

    Did you EVER think of it as "it is what we DIDN'T elect" is the reason he won? I think that should explain quite a bit. Take a look at your description and now apply that to the other candidate. Tell me now the choice that was made would have had a different outcome. One was a reality show and the other was reality.

  20. Re: The thing that gets me about electing Trump... by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

    I guess this means that since All Franken played the role of an idiot comedian on television that's all he can bring to the role of being a senator, too.

  21. Enough of this divisive horseshit by kelanos · · Score: 2

    >America Is Full of Racist and Selfish People
    >Trump
    >After all, he had insulted veterans, women, minorities, and countless other constituencies

    And yet he won the majority of the vote. Apparently these alleged "insults" weren't taken very seriously.

    Dear editors of Slashdot and the rest of the Liberal media machine (owners of the Democratic party and the unfortunate souls who follow them)
    We get it, you're trying to turn the people against each other because the rise in economic equality is giving them too much potential to challenge the status quo and represent their own interests.

    A healthy portion of the community has been telling you to fuck off this garbage for a while now, but you just keep going....

    Dear sane people of the world:
    We're not just going to be able to tell them to fuck off. We are going to have to FORCE them to. Think on that

    1. Re:Enough of this divisive horseshit by ewhenn · · Score: 1

      ....After all, he had insulted veterans, women, minorities, and countless other constituencies

      And yet he won the majority of the vote....

      Are you weak in math skills?

      Clinton 65,844,610
      Trump 62,979,636

    2. Re:Enough of this divisive horseshit by kelanos · · Score: 1

      The popular vote is not THE vote

      Are you weak in 'removing your bias to see the facts'?

    3. Re: Enough of this divisive horseshit by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      I've seen it explained on slashdot 100 times in the last 3 months. It seems like you "left wing idiots" are too dense to read and understand it or just don't want to so you pretend it doesn't happen.

  22. Re: Trump won because racist by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 2

    "And we have the evidence to prove this but we're not going to publish it. Trust us, we are qualified to judge, we're the people who have been actively interfering in elections around the world for more than a century."

  23. Racism by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 1

    Not just for white folks anymore.
    equality has been established, STFU - Q.E.D.

    Obama 2020

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
  24. Misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I was one of those googlers, and it wasn't because I was interested in being racist, it was to usually search for articles with those key phrases after a coworker was outraged, or because I had no idea such a phrase existed and decided to google it.

    Yet again, classic researchers crunching some numbers and freaking out before re-evaluating their inputs.

  25. Really? by nospam007 · · Score: 2

    This is hardly news. The rest of the world knows that since before the Internet and Google.

  26. Search terms are not opinions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    What a dumbass conlusion to think search terms would equal to the opinions of the people doing the searches.

  27. Sorry, but that's rubbish. Thought crime anybody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Search criteria? So what. Racism is not what you think, it's what you act upon. Racial statistics in given social settings don't deliver neutral results, and pretending that they do is just bone-headed. But you need to give everybody the chance to act as an individual before judging him, and to earn your respect as an individual.

    It's the acts that count.

  28. well... by superwiz · · Score: 1

    I don't think Ohio and Pennsylvania are what everyone is used to thinking of them. I recently drove coast to coast and I have to say that Pennsylvania just didn't have that feeling of a poor, ran down place anymore. It's nice and clean and just gave off the ritzy rather than gritty vibe.. The biggest shock was Ohio. I couldn't find a single country station during the whole drive through it. I also couldn't find a single Country Kitchen in Ohio. It's like the whole North East doesn't end until Chicago nowadays. You don't feel like you are in midwest until Minnesota.

    --
    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    1. Re:well... by nasch · · Score: 1

      Try Wyoming, it's hard to find anything but country radio.

  29. Re: The thing that gets me about electing Trump... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    How about Ronald Reagan? He got uspstaged by a monkey.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  30. This is just in... by mapkinase · · Score: 1

    ... population is stupid and democracy is an insane method of government.

    --
    I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
  31. "Not merely in the south" by johannesg · · Score: 1

    Oh, the irony... What would you call such a negative generalisation about people living in the south, I wonder?

  32. We must stop white people... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ... from having their own countries.

    Not one single white person will be allowed to simply associate with only their own kind. This evil must be stamped out.
    All employers must police their employees' speech and force them to pretend that they agree with everything the government is doing, vis a vis mass immigration of non-whites into white people's countries.

    Why?
    Why do you believe that white people, and ONLY white people, shouldn't be allowed to simply live around their own kind?

    1. Re:We must stop white people... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Slow down, take a few deep breaths, and relax and look around. If you're taking drugs ,stop. If not, consult a psychiatrist about your paranoia.

      White people are not "my own kind", they're people who share a skin color and a few other characteristics with me. Geeks are "my own kind". Nor is anyone saying you have to associate with anyone personally. Racial discrimination has been illegal in most businesses for a long time.

      Employers do not, in general, police employees' speech. If an employee says something particularly offensive in the workplace or (in a few cases) in public, the employer is likely to come down on him or her. Employers in general either discourage all political talk in the workplace, or don't care. In particular, they don't force people to pretend to have particular opinions about immigration policies.

      As to your final question, why do people believe that pink unicorns have longer horns? Also, if you're going to ask "why" about things that aren't true, why not go for the gusto like I did?

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  33. Absence of evidence != evidence of absence by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
    Let me ignore the issue of sample bias and unscientific sampling, in this.

    It is quite possible all these racists and xenophobes have always existed, and all Google has done is to install a microphone at all the water coolers, coffee machines, bars, ... Recorded what had unrecorded private conversations and actions and they kind of news and stories people read.

    Then you need to compare with the volume that was declared non-racist and altruist.

    Further it possible America is less racist than Europe. We gave refuge to half of all the Jews of the world in WWII. After Hitler and Nazis were defeated, did the European saviors and the non-nazi regular Germans allow them to return? Europe decided to dump all the displaced Jews in a arid desert in a far away land grabbed from the Arabs and created a spanking new country and sowed the seeds of eternal conflict in the Middle East. This on one hand. Google searches on the other. Gimme a break.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  34. Talk to the voters. by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    Jobs.
    Wealth.
    Not having to pay for "health" cover.
    Less tax.
    Less wars and US backed regime change.

    Find a candidate that can talk in many different states about topics like that without needing a long break or not having a coughing fit.
    Constituencies want free things that the tax payer is expected to pay for.
    Jobs in that state matter, been able to save money matters. How far one average wage can get a family matters.
    The cost of rent or mortgage is a topic. The cost of new health care plans.
    The value of university education and the loans needed. Will a student get in based on merit and how hard they studied or some other consideration?
    The failure of another regime change and the "moderates" the best minds in the US expected to find.
    One candidate was able to talk for longer to more people in more states and win.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  35. Nation w/ slavery and apartheid in recent history by Maritz · · Score: 1

    Contains racists. Imagine that.

    Your problem is not that there are racists. That's to be expected. Your problem is that you are creating new ones. Constantly.

    --
    I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  36. Trust the source? by boudie2 · · Score: 1

    Of course Google wouldn't lie about anything would they? I'm no genius like Eric Schmidt, but maybe he should have paid his millions in "bribes" to Hillary Clinton and the Democrats with a post-dated check. Honest brokers? Not those guys.

  37. Sounds obvious to me by Miser · · Score: 1

    As Sgt. Hartman in Full Metal Jacket would say:

    "Well ... no shit!"

  38. bad reasoning by ooloorie · · Score: 1

    “one in every hundred Google searches that included the word ‘Obama’ also included ‘KKK’” or the n-word

    And how is this "persuasive proof that America is full of racist and selfish people"? Clinton places an ad trying to tie Trump to the KKK and accusing him in August 2016. ThinkProgress, Mediaite, and other progressive sites publish articles like "Even the White Supremacists at Stormfront Say Hillary Won the Debate", of course, people are going to search for "stormfront" and "white supremacy".That's not an endorsement of white supremacy or Stormfront, it is an expression that most people don't know about these things: people search for things they don't know.

    Oh, and just be aware: if you try to search Hillary Clinton's actual KKK connections (her mentor and close friend, Sen. Byrd was a KKK member and filibustered against the Civil Rights Act), or if you're trying to fact-check Clinton's bogus ads accusing people of racism, in fact, if you are trying to fact-check Stephens-Davidowitz himself, you will be using search terms that will cause Stephens-Davidowitz to accuse you of racism.

    Of course, given the furious rate at which Stephens-Davidowitz must have typed those terms into Google and Google Trends for his "research", just think of how high Stephens-Davidowitz himself scores on his racism-o-meter!

  39. Googling Something == Racist? by Golddess · · Score: 1

    Searches containing racist epithets and jokes were spiking across the country during Trump's primary run

    And searches for "covfefe" probably spiked after that infamous tweet. Doesn't mean everyone searching for it knew what the fuck they were searching for.

    If you want to accuse someone of racism, you need more than "they googled something". Otherwise, all you are doing is accusing them of thought crimes.

    --
    "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
  40. PC culture suppresses the id by poity · · Score: 1

    ...and it builds up, it festers, and it finds an outlet sooner or later.

    --
    your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
  41. You know what.. by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    You know what I see here in most of the comments against? Denial.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  42. A good amount of them are Vox's leftists. by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    Scratch a leftist, find a totalitarian wanting to come out - Vox's readership and staff included.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
    1. Re:A good amount of them are Vox's leftists. by toadlife · · Score: 1

      Vox is not leftist. It is liberal.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
  43. Disingenuous by sycodon · · Score: 1

    This is about as disingenuous as it gets and not just a little bit pedantic.

    What we see on campuses today is, in fact, censorship. While it isn't the Government or an extension of that government (College Administration) shutting down speech, it is censorship none-the-less.

    You would be the first to cry censorship if your speakers were shut down by violent protests.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  44. Googling bad things by Dracolytch · · Score: 1

    Sometimes I have to google a horrible thing, because I don't know what it is. I wish that were a large portion of this traffic. I suspect it's a very small part.

    --
    This sig has been enciphered with a one-time pad. It could say almost anything.
  45. It's actually underestimating by backwardsposter · · Score: 1

    I think the numbers are still low, actually. Imagine if they included all kinds of racism, not just their kind of racism. Everyone has said something racist, therefore the number should be approaching 100%.

    The problem is that saying something racist does not make someone a racist. It's actually pretty hard to prove someone is a racist, but much easier to accuse someone of it.

  46. How do you measure people that don't search? by zerofoo · · Score: 1

    I'm sure there are millions upon millions of people that are neither racist nor selfish that aren't searching google for much of anything.

    How do we measure the good when there is no obvious way to do so?

  47. Re: Trump won because racist by ganjadude · · Score: 1

    and exactly how and for what purpose did they do so they still havent told us that part. they allude it was to help trump but they havent actually showed that to be the case

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  48. Aziz Ansari was spot on by mrun4982 · · Score: 1

    "We Don’t Have to Pretend Like We’re Not Racist Anymore!"

    1. Re:Aziz Ansari was spot on by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      How funny, he supported Obama, who was a member of an organized racist hate group (his church with rabid anti-white leader)

  49. What the words say by XXongo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The god-damned never-ending gun-control argument always takes over any thread. OK, let's do the legal analysis thing.

    The plain reading of the second amendment says that the government can't take away the right of people to carry arms. It doesn't go into what kinds of arms. The initial clause (something which the writers thought necessary here, but not necessary in any of the rest of the bill of rights) complicates the sentence, but it does not cancel out the second part: the right of the people to bear arms has to be interpreted in the context of "a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State", but that statement adds context, it doesn't reverse the plain meaning.

    Got that? OK so far. From that statement, you can say that the government has the right to regulate arms (it makes no sense for a militia to be "well regulated" without the ability to regulate), but not the right to "abridge" the right of citizens to bear arms, (where the plain meaning of "abridge" means "take away.") From other supreme court decisions, we can add that the government does not have the right to make regulations that are so strict as to de facto take away the right to bear arms (the court has already struck down other such attempts to take away rights by the back door.)

    Thus. The government can regulate arms, but can't take them away. So the only issue is, at what point a particular regulation becomes de facto taking away the right to bear arms, and not merely regulating them?

    My personal conclusion-- and I'm now shifting over to opinion, not analysis-- would be that the government is allowed to require a permit for a person to have a machine gun, but can't forbid it utterly.

    1. Re:What the words say by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      this was the basis of the 1930s National Firearms Act. The 1984 Hugh's amendment to said law, unfortunately, did just that. Now they do. Because one guy walked onto a playground in California with a Chinese version of an AK and killed a bunch of kids. They passed to law because they believed only an automatic weapon could commit mass casualties. Its the first of many expamples of gun laws not doing a damn thing to stop mass killing.

    2. Re:What the words say by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      In the language of the time, "regulated" meant "equipped".

      The real thrust of the justifying clause is against a standing army, but a lot of that is implicitly imported from the general political philosophy of the founders, in which an unfree state doesn't need a well-regulated militia or any militia at all because it has a standing army on the King's payroll always ready to do whatever he says. A free state, on the other hand, would have no such thing, so in order for it to be defended, the people in general would have to be a militia, and to function as such they would need to be well-regulated, i.e. well-equipped. Thus, the people in general shall be allowed to keep bear arms, so that the militia that they form can be well-equipped, and capable of defending the state, in a free manner, without requiring a standing army.

      The real affront to the second amendment isn't gun-control laws but the standing army we have today. But you'll never hear the gun nuts complaining about that ...

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    3. Re:What the words say by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Speaking as a leftist who isn't necessarily fond of widespread gun ownership but is less fond of ignoring the Constitution....

      The Second Amendment has that odd tag clause in front, and that's confused things for years. The only thing I'm sure of there is the word "militia", which refers to a sort of military force. Therefore, the only thing I'm sure of about the Second Amendment is that it applies to military weapons. I am of the opinion that the Second is intended to allow private individuals to purchase and practice with current military weapons, which has not been legal (in the sense of laws Congress passes and the Supreme Court doesn't nullify) since the 1980s. There is no legal way I can purchase a modern infantry rifle.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    4. Re:What the words say by XXongo · · Score: 1

      The only thing I'm sure of there is the word "militia", which refers to a sort of military force.

      So, you just ignore "well regulated"?

    5. Re:What the words say by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      What is "well regulated"? It seems to me to have more than one possible meaning, and so I'm not sure of it.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  50. And sometimes there are lengthy quotes by mpercy · · Score: 1

    The Founders were a wordy bunch who regularly committed their thoughts to paper or at least made public speeches which were transcribed for posterity. And of course there's those pesky minutes of all the meetings.

    The military forces of a free country may be considered under three general descriptions — 1. The militia. 2. the navy — and 3. the regular troops — and the whole ought ever to be, and understood to be, in strict subordination to the civil authority; and that regular troops, and select corps, ought not to be kept up without evident necessity. Stipulations in the constitution to this effect, are perhaps, too general to be of much service, except merely to impress on the minds of the people and soldiery, that the military ought ever to be subject to the civil authority, &c. But particular attention, and many more definite stipulations, are highly necessary to render the military safe, and yet useful in a free government; and in a federal republic, where the people meet in distinct assemblies, many stipulations are necessary to keep a part from transgressing, which would be unnecessary checks against the whole met in one legislature, in one entire government. — A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves, and render regular troops in a great measure unnecessary. The powers to form and arm the militia, to appoint their officers, and to command their services, are very important; nor ought they in a confederated republic to be lodged, solely, in any one member of the government. First, the constitution ought to secure a genuine and guard against a select militia, by providing that the militia shall always be kept well organized, armed, and disciplined, and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms; and that all regulations tending to render this general militia useless and defenceless, by establishing select corps of militia, or distinct bodies of military men, not having permanent interests and attachments in the community to be avoided. I am persuaded, I need not multiply words to convince you of the value and solidity of this principle, as it respects general liberty, and the duration of a free and mild government: having this principle well fixed by the constitution, then the federal head may prescribe a general uniform plan, on which the respective states shall form and train the militia, appoint their officers and solely manage them, except when called into the service of the union, and when called into that service, they may be commanded and governed by the union. This arrangement combines energy and safety in it; it places the sword in the hands of the solid interest of the community, and not in the hands of men destitute of property, of principle, or of attachment to the society and government, who often form the select corps of peace or ordinary establishments: by it, the militia are the people, immediately under the management of the state governments, but on a uniform federal plan, and called into the service, command, and government of the union, when necessary for the common defence and general tranquility. But, say gentlemen, the general militia are for the most part employed at home in their private concerns, cannot well be called out, or be depended upon; that we must have a select militia; that is, as I understand it, particular corps or bodies of young men, and of men who have but little to do at home, particularly armed and disciplined in some measure, at the public expence, and always ready to take the field. These corps, not much unlike regular troops, will ever produce an inattention to the general militia; and the consequence has ever been, and always must be, that the substantial men, having families and property, will generally be without arms, without knowing the use of them, and defenceless; whereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from t

    1. Re:And sometimes there are lengthy quotes by shanen · · Score: 1

      So that was the opinion of one of the founders. You didn't even say if you agree or disagree with anything he (or I) said.

      Still I suppose your quotation was a more useful contribution than the negative mod points of wordless sock puppets. I would defend my case (after correcting the typos, obvious though they be), but as things stand I can just as well rest it.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    2. Re:And sometimes there are lengthy quotes by mpercy · · Score: 1

      The point it, we really don't have to guess or infer or interpret what the Founders meant in the 2nd. Their meaning was plainly stated many times: The 2nd is meant to protect the people's right to be able to stand up and overthrow an oppressive government, to go toe-to-toe with any standing army that might be raised. They had just fought a war under those very terms, and recognized that they might be creating a government which could go bad at some point too

      The original language of the 2nd tells a more complete tale.

      "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
      - James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

      Note the inclusion of "free" when describing the defense--not just the "defense of a country" but defending freedom in that country. They edited it for brevity, but did not mean to divert the meaning. There are so many examples of this line of thought in evidence from various Founders...

      "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
      - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

      "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
      - Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

      "As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
      - Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789

      "What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."
      - Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress 750, August 17, 1789

      "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
      - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

      "Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of."
      - James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

      "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
      - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

      "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
      - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

      "[I]f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute tha

    3. Re:And sometimes there are lengthy quotes by shanen · · Score: 1

      False argumentation. Your obviously false premise is that there was a strong consensus among the founders (on guns or on anything else). There were a few absolutists among them, but in general they were pragmatic, and through sincere discussions were able to reach working compromises.

      You're also assuming that they were absolutely incapable of learning and changing their minds. However, based on the evidence so far, I think that's just projection. The founders themselves understood that their solutions and compromises were not perfect and that the Constitution would need to change with the times. That's why they included a mechanism for amending the Constitution, and then they had to compromise on a twisted invocation of that mechanism to get the Constitution ratified in the first place. Rather a straw man argument (and yet you've justified nothing stronger), but the founders obviously would NOT have included a right to own nuclear weapons in the 2nd Amendment even had a time traveler told them about the weapons of the future.

      Additional sophistry on your part: Highly selective evidence. That rises to a Level 2 lie of partial truth. There are plenty of quotes that disagree with your selection.

      The truth that you are NOT revealing is why you love guns so much. I'm vaguely curious why, but the usual 'psychological' approach is to assume it's some form of personal insecurity. Accept no substitutes except guns?

      Near as I can detect, nothing you said addresses any of the actual points I raised, so I take your inability to respond (or understand) as some sort of concession. Unfortunately, it is getting harder and harder to care what you think or what you concede.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  51. When you bring a pressure cooker to a bar fight by XXongo · · Score: 1

    who cares the method??? murder is still murder if its with a knife pressure cooker bomb or gun

    It is, but it's a lot harder.

    What guns change is that they can turn a momentary poor decision-- or simple hot-headed stupidity-- into dead bystanders in about a second.

    Few people use pressure cookers in bar fights, or during incidents of road-rage.

  52. Here comes the thought police by gotan · · Score: 1

    How dare they search for politically incorrect things! There was a time when i considered myself politically left, but since that left embraced orwellian newspeak and dogmatic tabooing anything that doesn't fit their agenda I'm no longer willing to be part of that. Instead of convincing arguments they employ "deplatforming", essentially censoring. The very same means the political left fought against a few decades ago it now wholeheartedly embraces. Next politicians will demand that google forbids politically incorrect search terms.

    --
    "By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
  53. Eduction time by s.petry · · Score: 1

    Are you trying to convince us that since it isn't racist to refer to somebody's nationality,

    That is exactly correct.

    racism
    rsizm/
    noun

    prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

    Words do have meaning, and you should really try to learn what words mean before making asinine statements like you just did.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  54. Fooling yourself with data by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

    That searches are some kind of deep proxy for what you really think is an advertising slogan intended to make search engines seem more relevant and powerful than they actually are.

    Google search results are just as full of worthless noise as they have always been and online store product suggestions are comically wrong. If the ability to know what I'm thinking actually existed it would seem to me to be in Google's direct financial interests to use it.

  55. continued... by s.petry · · Score: 1

    Apology for submitting half a post... The act of recognition of Race/Religion/Ethnicity is not bad. My ancestry is Hillbilly. Hillbilly is not in and of itself derogatory. Even terms like you mention could be used in non-derogatory ways. Comedy is an easy one, but also description of events, etc...

    Most importantly, how does Google or any other search engine know the reason you are searching for those terms? If you are posting racist comments I could see making a claim like TFA does that racism is a wide spread problem. Membership in racist groups would also be a measure. Searching for a set of keywords? Not an indication of racism.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  56. Fuzzy Boundary [Re:No kidding...] by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    The boundary of "racism" is nebulous. For example, many conservatives believe that "the system" is rigged so that most their tax money is going to minorities who are "kept lazy" by not being required to work or given preference because of Affirmative Action instead of merit.

    That's not necessarily direct racism, in terms of belief of genetic inferiority, but it's a belief that certain groups are treated different by the government, causing social divides and unfairness.

    Now, I have also met blatant racists. For example, one lady at work admonished me from associating with "their kind". And a civics professor of mine used in part a "no great civilizations in Africa" argument to claim blacks are genetically inferior. I also know people who are paranoid random Muslims will explode in their presence.

  57. So you're letting people at Vox decide that these jokes are racist? Vox?

    --
    Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
  58. Wrong Department by GlennC · · Score: 1

    This should be in the "Thank You, Captain Obvious" department.

    --
    Go on, citizen, stamp the vote card. R or D, your choice.
  59. This is why shaming doesn't work by Solandri · · Score: 1

    If you create a stigma of shame around certain disrespectful behaviors or beliefs, all you do is drive it underground. It's still there, people just become better at hiding it. I was hopeful this would become obvious after Trump's election - where Trump supporters were shamed by the media to the point that they lied to pollsters about who they were going to vote for, causing the the polls to inaccurately predict a Clinton victory. But instead the media has gotten sidetracked with blaming the whole thing on Russia (probably because that would absolve them of any responsibility).

    If you want to get rid of prejudice and discrimination, you have to do it through education and exposure. First you counteract the bigoted prejudices by teaching people that these other people who look or believe differently than you are more like you than they are different. They have feelings, hopes, dreams, desires, failings, make mistakes, and are just trying to make a better life for themselves just like you. Then you expose people to these other people for long enough so they can see these things with their own eyes (short exposure causes them to only pick out things which confirm their prejudices). I come from a conservative religious background. But one of my childhood friends turned out to be gay. Becoming friends with someone from a group you're supposed to be opposed to is the best way to gain perspective. It's no longer "would I scream slurs at some anonymous person?" It becomes "would I scream slurs at my friend?"

    The entire SJW tactic of trying to change society via shaming is misguided, and arguably harmful as people will perceive shaming to be an accepted tactic. People are learning that it's OK to disrespect and behave rudely towards other people with certain beliefs (religious or atheist), from certain areas (the Bay Area or the deep South), or with certain characteristics (black or rich). Basically it's the same discrimination SJWs are purportedly trying to stamp out, just directed at different groups. You're not stamping out hatred, you're just swapping it for a different hatred.

    Don't assume the caricatures - the criminal black, the privileged white male, the self-entitled Millenial, etc. - are true. Each person is a unique blend of feelings, thoughts, abilities, and beliefs. And you have to learn that person's unique blend before you have the right to criticize them. Judging them based solely on their appearance, where they're from, what event they're attending, etc. is prejudice, discrimination, and bigotry. Doing so under the guise of stamping out prejudice is hypocrisy.

  60. You nailed it! by s.petry · · Score: 1

    The assumption of intent is the problem. Seeing an "ism/obe/ist" everywhere means that you assume the worst possible intent at all times. How many people would have searched for Richard Spencer if not for running a Google search after reading/hearing smears against Milo (I mentioned way up)? Hell, I would not have known the name except for the smear campaign. I read about him because I wanted first hand information to form an opinion with. According to this survey, my inquiry was probably labelled "racist" because the assumed intent was not curiosity/fact finding.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  61. Re:Everyone here is racist by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

    I do live in the ghetto. As a white male. And I get along with 90% of my neighbors. Even the welfare queens that I have to work to support. The people that have never lived in a ghetto(I'm 30 years in) have no fucking idea what it's like and should really stay out of "poor people's problems"

  62. VOX by binkless · · Score: 1

    Vox website shows that Washington is full of insufferable sactimonius dweebs.

  63. Judge me based on my search history!??! by Mike+Van+Pelt · · Score: 1

    A friend has a T-shirt: "Pay no attention to my search history. I'm a mystery writer, not a serial killer."

    There's lots of innocent reasons someone might search for horrible things.

  64. You mean leftists by sproketboy · · Score: 1

    Racists and Selfish People = Leftists.

  65. What the Latin words say by XXongo · · Score: 1

    In the language of the time, "regulated" meant "equipped".

    No, it didn't. Who the hell makes this shit up? It meant nothing of the sort. Some aspects of the language has changed, but "regulated" meant then what it means now: regulated.

    "Regulation" does not mean a piece of equipment, it means a rule. It's from the Latin word for "rule" (regis: genitive singular of rex) the same word used in English words such as "regent", someone who rules in place of a king.

    1. Re:What the Latin words say by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      Yes, I'm well aware of the etymology thank you. The sense meaning "equipped" stems from that same etymology, branching off from the more direct sense that survives to us today, by way of sense 3 here, "To adjust to a particular specification or requirement". Regulated soldiers are (were) those with the required equipment.

      Compare also the term "regular army", which does not mean a common, typical, or average army, or an army obeying laws (per the etymology of "regular"), but a standing army ready to go with everything that it needs.

      Also perhaps more illustratively, compare "ordnance", which explicitly means only military equipment, weapons and ammunition, and comes from the root "ordo-" which also means both pertaining to rules (as in "ordinances", laws, and "order") and "in a line" (as in the "ordinal" numbers), and is also the root of a synonym for "regular" in the most common sense today, "ordinary". It's also closely related to "ortho-", which has both normative ("orthodox" = "correct belief") and geometric ("orthogonal" = "at a right angle") senses. ("Correct" and "right" both stem from the same "reg-" root, BTW).

      FWIW the root "norm-" also shares a similar pattern: normal as in at a right angle (a la surface normals), normal as in regular or ordinary (common, typical, or average), and norms as in rules (a la "normative"). I'm not aware of a sense of "norm-" that came to mean "military equipment", though.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    2. Re:What the Latin words say by XXongo · · Score: 1

      Yes, I'm well aware of the etymology thank you. The sense meaning "equipped" stems from that same etymology, branching off from the more direct sense that survives to us today, by way of sense 3 here, "To adjust to a particular specification or requirement".

      Except that in the interpretation of laws you use the common, ordinary meaning of a word. You don't stretch out to cherry-pick some uncommon usage. Definitions one and two in the site you link are the common usage now, and were also the common usage in the 18th century:
      Regulate:
      To dictate policy.
      To control or direct according to rule, principle, or law.

  66. Lets Go Nuclear by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    The second amendment isn't restricting the right to well regulated militias, but rather citing the need for militia as a reason to allow people to keep and bear arms. That is not a limit upon who can keep and bear arms.

    The problem with this is that we now have nuclear arms. So if you are really advocating for no limit on keeping and bearing arms you must support the right of everyone in the US to keep and bear nuclear arms. The US and likely the world would not survive such a situation for very long and, unsurprisingly nobody, not even the NRA (at least as far as I am aware) think that US citizens should have the right to bear nuclear arms. Hence everyone already agrees that there should be limits put on this right and the only question remains where that limit should be put.

    Since the original aim was to secure the state that would perhaps be a good guideline to follow. Having everyone out there wandering around armed today does nothing for the security of the state because today you have an army which has access to nuclear arms. In fact having easy access to guns leads to less security because terrorists and others attacking the state can easily get their hands on them. The recent terrorist attacks in London show this well - the terrorists were reduced to using vehicles and knives. If the same thing had happened in the US it would have been vehicles and guns and the death toll would almost certainly have been a lot higher.

  67. Re:I don't see how searching means anything by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

    Just because you search for something doesn't indicate what you feel about it, good or bad. It doesn't doesn't mean you're "in" to it, maybe just doing research for the sake of knowledge.

    Exactly. What has happened to the level of critical thinking on Slashdot. I had to scroll almost all the way down the comments to find a single comment questioning the validity of assuming google searches are anything more than requests for information. Google searches really only tell you what people are curious about. Not what they believe. They are questions. Not answers.

    --
    Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
  68. Democrats are losers by BCGlorfindel · · Score: 1

    Clearly that's true to some degree no doubt, but continuing to act as if that's the rational behind all or even a majority of Trump voters (who were not necessarily Trump supporters, there's a difference) isn't exactly endearing the left to anyone outside the echo chambers, or helping to set up whoever runs in 2020 to do better. If there's on thing the middle/low class white people aren't going to want to hear (again) it is someone from a classist institute like Harvard telling them they are racist.

    For fuck's sake, someone always has to bring up how the "left" would win over Trump supporters, if the left could just stop being so insulting towards them.
    Think about this for a second: These are people who ignored every single repulsive aspect of Trump's policies and the campaign he ran. They willingly voted for a man who said, and I quote "I could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters." Here's a hint: That means even Trump realizes his own supporters are drinking the kool aid.

    These are people who are either completely unwilling to listen to a viewpoint which contradicts their world view, or they actually agree with the deplorable things that come out of Trump's mouth. You're just not going to win over those people; you just have to hope they don't bother to vote, and your side has a better turnout.

    Blah, Blah, Blah.

    All I hear is the tragedy of why Trump actually stands a chance at re-election. It's not your doomsday scenario of the how evil and intractable Trump voters are though. It's that you perfectly describe the Democratic party's approach to losing the election.

    The Democratic party, and people like yourself, need to be reminded that Hillary Clinton LOST to this guy. A presidential candidate that publicly encouraged Russians to hack American computer systems. A presidential candidate on tape talking about he can just grab a women by the p#$$! and get away with it because he's so rich. A presidential candidate that publicly noted the NRA could 'do' something about Obama trying to take away their guns. Take the time to absorb how awful a candidate he truly was. Now take the time to get your head around the fact that Hillary Clinton still managed to lose the election to the guy.

    If the Democrats don't want to lose the next election, they need to get people to vote for them next time around that DIDN'T vote for Hillary. If the Democrats choose to declare everyone that voted against Hillary as evil monsters that loved the worst parts of Trump, they are driving away the very people they need to win over.

  69. Easy by lucm · · Score: 1

    Funny you didn't post words to that effect under the comment about "left-wing thugs."

    Please provide an example of a left-wing or liberals demonstration that was disrupted by right-wing activists.

    *crickets*

    That's why I don't think we need to defend the left-wing thugs, they're having a field day every time someone else tries to express their opinions.

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  70. swords vs nukes by fox171171 · · Score: 1

    If not small nukes.

    When slicing through a man, you get that personal feedback. Nuclear weapons... ehh, it goes off, big bang, but you don't get any feedback.

    1. Re:swords vs nukes by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      I understand that. But average person against tyrant military base.. i would prefer the small nuke.

  71. Well, to be fair by OfMiceAndMenus · · Score: 1

    So does the President we somehow "elected".

  72. Congratulations United States! by stolidobserver · · Score: 1

    You have succeeded in turning virtually every last citizen into a brainwashed proponent of your polarizing propaganda campaign. If it's not identity politics, it's not news.

  73. The data can be interpreted in many ways by fhaq · · Score: 1

    I just read the article. I have to say that this data can be taken either way. Just because someone searched something doesn't mean they're a racist. If this person said or did something and I search to see if its true does that make me a racist, misogynist, or whatever is implied? No, it means I wanted to see if there is reason to believe it. The article mentions some site called Stormfront, I'm about to search it to see if it exists. And I just searched it. Wow wtf! Very strong KKK vibe from the first glance. Anyway I just searched it, but I'm not racist. If someone told me that there is a pic of Sofia Vergara with a penis then I'll probably search it. Not because I'm into she-males (or am I...), but because I want to see if it's true. All I'm saying is if you type "how to start a fire" and then you search about Jebus on a crucifix it doesn't mean I'm going to burn a cross... or am I.

  74. Re:So I guess... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    Where were you from 2008 to 2017? Off-planet or hiding under a rock, or just blissfully oblivious to what assorted people were saying and making images about Obama? I'm not condoning everything the Democrats have said and done, but if you're seeing only Democrats doing things like this you're deaf and blind.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  75. Re:So I guess... by lucm · · Score: 2

    I'm not condoning everything the Democrats have said and done, but if you're seeing only Democrats doing things like this you're deaf and blind.

    As usual, all you do in your shallow replies is say "it's not true!" and leave it at that. Post a link to support your statement if you want people to take you seriously.

    --
    lucm, indeed.