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Microsoft Confirms It's Not Killing Off Paint After Outpouring of Support (cnbc.com)

Microsoft said late Monday that it will not be killing off its Paint app in the next update of Windows 10. It will be made available via the Windows Store for free and will not be completely removed. CNBC reports: The U.S. technology company recently released a list which labeled Paint "deprecated," meaning it was considering removing the app when the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update gets released later this year. Fans on social media decried the potential death of Paint, which has been in existence for 32 years. But Microsoft released a blog post shortly after to clarify that Paint would not be completely removed, but instead made available via the Windows Store for free. "Today, we've seen an incredible outpouring of support and nostalgia around MS Paint. If there's anything we learned, it's that after 32 years, MS Paint has a lot of fans. It's been amazing to see so much love for our trusty old app," Megan Saunders, a general manager at Microsoft, wrote in a blog post on Monday. "Amidst today's commentary around MS Paint we wanted to take this opportunity to set the record straight, clear up some confusion and share some good news: MS Paint is here to stay, it will just have a new home soon, in the Windows Store where it will be available for free."

244 comments

  1. Who isn't using paint.net? by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    On a netbook paint is a handy place to paste a screenshot but on a machine with any kind of capabilities it's kind of the most frustrating tool available.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      for those that aren't ofay with tools like paintshop or gimp paint is incredibly valuable for simple changes. I have Paintshop but their have been many times I have closed it in frustration and just opened the file in paint because the tiny change I needed to make was painfully obscured or overcomplicated in PS. sometimes a simple hammer is better than chest full of high tech gadgets.

    2. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      MS Paint has the advantage of opening insanely fast compared with more recent tools, thanks to it being programmed for computers of another era.

      If you just want a temporary place where to paste an image from clipboard, Paint is a much better target than Paint.net, whose startup time is slow as molasses.

    3. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 3, Informative

      Paint.net strikes a happy medium there. It's pretty powerful yet easy to use if all you need is to change a couple of pixels. And you get much better support for various file formats. Though I agree it's silly for MS to remove such an incredible useful tool from Windows. Part of its advantage is that it's always there, doesn't have to be installed, so if someone asks how to do something with images, you can always explain how to do that with Paint.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    4. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      MS Paint has the advantage of opening insanely fast compared with more recent tools, thanks to it being programmed for computers of another era.

      If you just want a temporary place where to paste an image from clipboard, Paint is a much better target than Paint.net, whose startup time is slow as molasses.

      For me The Gimp opens in about two seconds and if I want a rudimentary paint program such as KolourPaint which is really on par with "Paint" it opens in less than one second.

      Actually there are plenty of simple paint programes that are every bit as good as Microsoft Paint, not only for Microsoft operating systems but Linux and Mac os's as well.

    5. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by xonen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The real point of paint is not 'painting', but a basic tool to do file conversions, save a screenshot or acquire an image from a scanner, and maybe some basic text annotations or other stuff.
      They (MS) underestimate it's usefulness. Moving it to the store is almost the same as abandoning.
      99% chance i couldn't care less, now or ever, but for people that work on varying locations or have to administer other people's computers, or (play) helpdesk etc, might be upset. And rightfully.
      It's about the same effect as removing notepad would be. Notepad is a horrible application that even in 2017 still cannot handle line breaks correctly, but it does have it's uses and is part of the standard windows toolkit.
      Last not least - not everyone is permanently connected to the internet. Imho, windows is throwing in it's own windows with moves like this, and narrowing instead of broadening it's user base.

      --
      A glitch a day keeps the bugs away.
    6. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends what you're trying to do.

      For most of my purposes, paint does the trick. (Simple crops etc of screenshots).

      For when one needs more, paint.net is also there.

    7. Re: Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did the parent say anything about Photoshop?

      No?

      Then kindly STFU.

    8. Re: Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your Gimp opens in seconds then you have trained it well.

      Or is that tuned? Something lick that.

    9. Re: Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I've no idea whats so much greater about photoshops UI but I find the things I want to do in Gimp easy enough.

      It is a viable alternative for anyone who wants free and legal. Why should I pay a monthly fee for an application I use only a few times a year.

    10. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Rockoon · · Score: 2

      It seems to me that the support cost of keeping paint mainlined cannot possibly be enough to justify losing the foot in the door that they have, as paint is a commonly used tool. My guess is quite large numbers of people use it for a wide assortment of simple activities. Cropping, rescaling, adding text, blurring sensitive info, and so on.

      In a very real way the paint program is dead as there are extremely few people actually using it to paint. But those other uses require a tool and I really dont understand why Microsoft would want to opt out of providing that tool. Seems like a no-brainer.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    11. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by TuringTest · · Score: 1

      if I want a rudimentary paint program such as KolourPaint which is really on par with "Paint"

      That would be nice to try, but apparently they don't host binaries in their website, for windows or otherwise. I'm unable to find a legit official download link after some minutes looking for it, as I don't trust "random download site" as a source.

      --
      Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
    12. Re: Who isn't using paint.net? by F.Ultra · · Score: 1

      Does that out of the box on my Ubuntu on spinning rust, so hardly anything spectacular.

    13. Re: Who isn't using paint.net? by houghi · · Score: 1

      I need to use 'save as' instead of just 'save' in Gimp. Not that great of an idea. (Yes, I have linked CTRL-S to Save-As)

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    14. Re: Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I take that back; I guess in context, and given how we're talking about image-editing apps in general (and with Photoshop being the big player in that field), I guess it was pretty reasonable to mention it, even if the tone was a bit harsh. After all, conversation in general would grind to a halt if you could never bring up anything that hadn't already been explicitly mentioned! So, yeah, sorry about that. I'll try to do better in future.

    15. Re: Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's cool, I was trolling a bit tbh.

    16. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sudo apt-get install kolourpaint4

    17. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Paint is ubiquitous, so standard it's fossilised, a known quantity. The UX crowd hasn't got around to ruining it yet, and no-one has "new and improved" the code base to make in run like an overweight snail in quicksand.

      Sure there's always something better for everything, but if you have a trusty tool that you can do the job done with, basically from muscle memory, why would you bother changing?

    18. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      there are extremely few people actually using it to paint.

      But still not as few as there ought to be...

      http://www.deviantart.com/digitalart/paintings/newest/

    19. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2 seconds to open, 10 mins to find the basic feature you are looking for. this isn't just bashing OSS, paintshop is just as bad, neither are friendly for people that don't regularly use them.

    20. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sudo apt-get install kolourpaint4

      For Windows?

    21. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Usually the people who find it on a sketchy looking web site to download.
      Don't get me wrong I love the product. And I wish there was a Native Linux port of it. (Also Notepad++) However when I go to get the product I have to be super careful on what I link, because the site that hosts it is poorly made, and designed to trick people into downloading wrong/bad software too.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    22. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why would you install a Paint clone in an OS that has Paint?

    23. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by TuringTest · · Score: 1

      Because it's being discontinued, so you have to install something anyway?

      Besides, KolourPaint is (L)GPL and MS Paint is not.

      --
      Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
    24. Re: Who isn't using paint.net? by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      There is a fine line between a good interface and a horrible one.
      Normally for people who want to use GIMP to replace Photoshop tasks, its interface is bad. Layers and Layer transformation (for me) is one of the primary functions in Photoshop. GIMP has these same features, but they are stuffed away in menu options often with and potential trademark avoiding funny names.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    25. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it is because I come from a Unix design methodology. But if people are doing limited tasks in Paint. Would it make sense to make tool(s) to do the tasks more efficiently.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    26. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Just get a copy of the .exe and run that. Are you worried about security updates for fucking Paint?

    27. Re: Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Windows port is terrible, fully half a minute on my i7 with 16GB RAM. No, I don't want to run Linux on this system.

    28. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Easy to use....not as easy as crusty old MS Paint. Even for more advanced stuff such as working with layers paint.net leaves a lot to be desired. The work can be done, but it is needlessly convoluted and complicated. I gave it a try and went back to the dino PSP6.

    29. Re: Who isn't using paint.net? by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

      I guess it comes down to what one is used to, but I find the GIMP UI kinda awkward. There are some conventions in place where users expect items and commands to be located and there is really no good reason to break with such conventions.

    30. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering for about 20 years you could break into any Windows machine through "Printer Help", yes.

    31. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      On a netbook paint is a handy place to paste a screenshot but on a machine with any kind of capabilities it's kind of the most frustrating tool available.

      It's just as easy to put a screenshot into paint on a desktop as it is a netbook or laptop. What are you on about? It's frustrating if you actually want to do anything sure but for screen shots, it's open paint, paste, save. No more or less anything any any platform. Unless you mean doing digital art or whatever on a netbook but why on earth would you want to do that? It'd be like digging with a spoon.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    32. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Actually there are plenty of simple paint programes that are every bit as good as Microsoft Paint, not only for Microsoft operating systems but Linux and Mac os's as well.

      That's true but paint is on basically every windows pc ever by default. You know it's going to be there, you know where it'll be, you know you can count on it (to an extent). Anything else is a crapshoot.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    33. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      In a very real way the paint program is dead as there are extremely few people actually using it to paint. But those other uses require a tool and I really dont understand why Microsoft would want to opt out of providing that tool. Seems like a no-brainer.

      Not many people use photoshop to take photos or run shops either so the clue isn't always in the name.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    34. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it is because I come from a Unix design methodology. But if people are doing limited tasks in Paint. Would it make sense to make tool(s) to do the tasks more efficiently.

      Probably but take that to it's logical conclusion and you get photoshop. Sometimes it's good to have something simple and limited.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    35. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      --Analogy: Removing 'paint' from a default Windows install is almost on the same level as $DISTRO removing 'vi' from a *nix default install. Srsly. Bad idea.

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
    36. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      --Have you tried portableapps or ninite?

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
    37. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For just pasting images and simple manipulations, IrfanView or XnViewMP are good. Paint just sucks for everything.

    38. Re: Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Disregard that, I suck cocks.

      -Parent AC

    39. Re: Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My bugbear with gimp is,

      Open image, copy a section out and paste the selection as 'new image'
      Then 'export image as' something.jpg
      ( job is now done )
      Close new image, need to confirm as not saved ( what did i just do! )
      okay , close original image, prompted again as not saved!
          err i never changed it only copyed from it ,why save it ?
      okay
      now i finally get to close the gimp app.....
      This is on debian 8

    40. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Would it make sense to make tool(s) to do the tasks more efficiently.

      The amalgam of all those tools looks exactly like a simple paint program.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    41. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by skids · · Score: 2

      But... unless we use paint, how are we supposed to turn screenshots into really poorly compressed BMPs and fill up our coworkers' exchange inbox quotas?

    42. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by haruchai · · Score: 1

      "Paint is a much better target than Paint.net, whose startup time is slow as molasses"
      What kind of underpowered machine are you on?
      I have a portable version of Paint.NET 4.0 & launching it takes barely 3 seconds for the 1st launch after a reboot and just under 2 for subsequent launches, probably due to its dependency on dotNET 4.x.
      MS Paint launches in less than one but the loss of the extra 1-2 seconds for the extra capabilities isn't going ruin my life.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    43. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Tuidjy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I love Paint.NET, but I do not have it installed at every computer at work. Paint is invaluable to me when I am asking someone at a remote Point of Sale to take a screenshot and e-mail it to me.

      Even our own warehouses have computers running WinXP. We send them replacements from corporate, but the manager takes the old PC, and sticks it on a rack near at the back of the warehouse... and claims that 'it saves the company thousands' when I ask for it back. It's a privately owned company, and I am not gong to bother the owner (who is the only one that can can overrule the warehouse managers) because of a box that my department will end up paying to e-waste. And yes, it will save the warehouse staff some time, and I or my people will end up supporting it.

      Some of the Mon&Pop stores who buy from us also end up talking to me for tech support that is only remotely connected to their using our catalogue or replenishment sites. And some of them are running 2000 and ME.

      So yes, I personally use the lightest of Paint, Paint.NET, or gimp that does what I need, but it is nice to know that all Windows boxes have Paint. And unfortunately, it being available for free on the Windows Store or wherever does little to help. If I have to make them download something, the battle may already be lost.

      --
      No good deed goes unpunished...
    44. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On my machine, Paint starts up and has a fully usable window by right around the time the mouse button is fully popped back up from clicking the start menu shortcut to the app.

      2 seconds is ridiculously slow in comparison.

      You're right about paint.net, though, it takes about a half-second longer than Paint does. So slow. But faster than GIMP on your machine, it seems.

      As for using them as clipboard targets, I'll take paint.net over Paint any day. Paint is bare-bones. It doesn't re-size the canvas to fit what you're pasting (unless the canvas is too small, so it's grow-only) and it doesn't have a way to paste into a new document. paint.net does both of those things. (Ctrl-Alt-V is a fantastic time saver.)

    45. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by omnichad · · Score: 2

      it being available for free on the Windows Store or wherever does little to help

      Same here. It's the second major troubleshooting tool to be removed from a default Windows install. Telnet.exe was extremely valuable in verifying accessible TCP/IP ports from a workstation. So easy you could talk almost anyone through typing the commands.

    46. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Notepad sucks. Been using this for many years.
      https://notepad-plus-plus.org/

    47. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      MS Paint launches in less than one but the loss of the extra 1-2 seconds for the extra capabilities isn't going ruin my life.

      It breaks flow to wait here. I'm already waiting to hit CTRL+V. Do you remember when a slow computer would make your keyboard buffer fill up momentarily and you would have to stop typing until it catches up? It's like that. It's a short, but incredibly frustrating delay.

    48. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Notepad still handles CRLF just fine. Just because you happen to have a lot of LF-only text files doesn't mean that they should comply with your odd format.

    49. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by chihowa · · Score: 1

      Wordpad is also standard on all Windows systems and handles all line breaks properly. It also doesn't shit itself as often when you open gigantic files.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    50. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      It also opens plain text files as editable rich text. Meaning that just opening and hitting save may not be bit-for-bit the same. And it would probably replace LF with CRLF, though I haven't tried.

    51. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fill it up with amateur porn done by fat people, giving 'poorly compressed' a different meaning.

    52. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by MiniMike · · Score: 1

      Paint is invaluable to me when I am asking someone at a remote Point of Sale to take a screenshot and e-mail it to me.

      You can paste a screenshot directly into an e-mail using Thunderbird or Gmail, tested on Win7. Might work with other e-mail too.

    53. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can paste a screenshot directly into an e-mail using Thunderbird or Gmail, tested on Win7.
      Thank you very much for posting this. I had never thought of it. It also works with Thunderbird on Windows 10, I just checked.

    54. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by thewolfkin · · Score: 1

      MS Paint has the advantage of opening insanely fast compared with more recent tools, thanks to it being programmed for computers of another era.

      If you just want a temporary place where to paste an image from clipboard, Paint is a much better target than Paint.net, whose startup time is slow as molasses.

      For me The Gimp opens in about two seconds and if I want a rudimentary paint program such as KolourPaint which is really on par with "Paint" it opens in less than one second.

      Actually there are plenty of simple paint programes that are every bit as good as Microsoft Paint, not only for Microsoft operating systems but Linux and Mac os's as well.

      two seconds? what kind of magic man are you? for me about 20 seconds. even before I installed all my brushes and fonts and palettes it was nowhere near 2 seconds to boot up. closer to 10 on a fresh install. don't get me wrong. I love gimp. but it's not nearly as fast to boot up as paint.

      --
      Just another second banana
    55. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      I would argue that Notepad should be killed off. I am not sure where in the pre-win 3.x world Write first made its appearance externally but Notepad has been obsolete almost ever since. Write was however a bit slow to start on Win 3.x 386-era hardware and did use more memory on often very limited systems. Remember we had 4 - 8MB of memory back than and liked it. Some folks still squeaking by with less. Consequently Notepad was useful for throwing up a README.TXT and similar without taxing the system, or jotting a few quick notes as its name implied.

      Today I would suggest Write is better choice, for just about every situation. If nothing else it handles line breaks and larger files properly oh and it can handle RTF files. On modern systems its as quick to launch as Notepad and not exactly a memory hog. Kill Notepad, and make notepad.exe a shortcut/symlink/junction to write.exe so as not beak old scripts.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    56. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use it all the time. Quickest way to edit screenshots.

    57. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This premise is wrong, and considering it is the linchpin of all your arguments, there's no use listening to you.

    58. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      for those that aren't ofay

      Orwell recommended not using words in writing that you've only heard in speech.

      He was right.

    59. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's part of KDE and available in the package repositories of any decent operating system

      $ pkg search kolourpaint
      kolourpaint-4.14.3_1 KDE 4 paint program

      $ uname -sr
      FreeBSD 10.3-RELEASE-p11

    60. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't you rather pay for screen capturing?

    61. Re: Who isn't using paint.net? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Unless you're Lennart Poettering or one of his advocates. In that case the conventions are wrong and anyone who disagrees is a luddite who should RTFM.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    62. Re: Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would be nice if I could just paste to a new file from explorer without any apps.

    63. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I shudder to think of the bloated shit you use day to day that causes you to think 3 seconds ISN'T slow as molasses. That shit adds up. You don't have to value your time, but I value mine.

    64. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by MiniMike · · Score: 1

      Glad to help.

    65. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I love Paint.NET, but I do not have it installed at every computer at work.

      Maybe you should roll it into the deployment images, then.

      And yes, it will save the warehouse staff some time, and I or my people will end up supporting it.

      How did it come to pass that the old solution is superior to the new one? Purchasing failure?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    66. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It's just as easy to put a screenshot into paint on a desktop as it is a netbook or laptop. What are you on about?

      Are you sure you know anything about computers? You might not want to deal with the increased startup time of Paint.net vs. paint if you are using a netbook, which has limited resources.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    67. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      How long do you think paint takes to load? What are you doing that the potential difference of seconds is so crucial that it needs dealing with? You're only talking about opening, pasting and saving. How is the level of frustration with that (which is zero) dependent on the specs of the machine? How did paint.net even come into this? You basically said it's more frustrating to use paint for screenshots on a desktop or laptop than it is on a netbook and I said that's stupid.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    68. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by haruchai · · Score: 1

      I shudder to think of the bloated shit you use day to day that causes you to think 3 seconds ISN'T slow as molasses. That shit adds up. You don't have to value your time, but I value mine.

      I get paid for my time. Regardless, I do value the efficient use of it which is why I hibernate my laptop with all the necessary programs running & only do a full reboot before installing patches. I typically run for 10-14 days between reboots.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    69. Re: Who isn't using paint.net? by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      Bitter much?

    70. Re: Who isn't using paint.net? by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      I don't know if moving it to the store will kill it. It might even be the store's "killer app" that finally gets some of us to give it 2 seconds consideration.

    71. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by haruchai · · Score: 1

      " Do you remember when a slow computer would make your keyboard buffer fill up momentarily and you would have to stop typing until it catches up?"
      I have that problem all the time with Firefox & Chrome & my PC is far from slow.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    72. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Tuidjy · · Score: 1

      > > And yes, it will save the warehouse staff some time, and I or my people will end up supporting it.
      > How did it come to pass that the old solution is superior to the new one? Purchasing failure?
      I think you misread what he said. The old solution is not superior. The warehouse staff is keeping the old box in addition to the new one. The new one seems to go wherever the old one was, and the old one is kept in the back of the warehouse to save time to those who happen to be there.

      I can see how the staff of a privately owned company would have that discretion. I'd hate to be in IT in a company where such things are allowed, though.

      --
      No good deed goes unpunished...
    73. Re:Who isn't using paint.net? by Tuidjy · · Score: 1

      Ah, Petar's wife here, I should have not used his ID.

      --
      No good deed goes unpunished...
  2. They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Availability isn't the concern. We want it ubiquitous. Meaning that if someone has windows you know they have paint.

    1. Re:They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Microsoft prefers that if someone has windows, they also will have Microsoft account and the surfaces to display ads.

    2. Re:They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Will you need a Microsoft account to be able to download it? If so, perhaps they know what they are doing. They'll do at our expenses.

    3. Re:They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right.

      A decent middle road would be if they moved the functionality into the snipping tool in a smooth way.

    4. Re:They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, people do use paint for more than editing screenshots.

      Leave Paint alone and integrate snipping tool into the environment with (modifier)+prtscrn shortcuts like Mint does.

    5. Re: They miss the point. by TuballoyThunder · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Agree. There many environments where one cannot install apps from the Windows Store even if it is free. I use Windows Paint quite regularly for work.

    6. Re:They miss the point. by asylumx · · Score: 1

      Yup, Bingo, and also this is the answer to the question above "Who isn't using paint.net?" -- the answer is it didn't matter until now because you knew mspaint was there.

    7. Re:They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Effectively the same end result, but your way seems more convenient.

    8. Re: They miss the point. by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Agree. There many environments where one cannot install apps from the Windows Store even if it is free. I use Windows Paint quite regularly for work.

      On the bright side, maybe this will make organizations include something better than MS Paint in the default desktop image. Together with Powerpoint (or Visio if available) I can usually abuse it to do what I want, but for some things something like Paint.NET would be much better. I don't expect Photoshop on every desktop but it's so extremely rudimentary, I think the only things it does well is:

      1. Crop screenshots
      2. Add filled black boxes to censor sensitive data
      3. Add red boxes to point to the error/discrepancy
      4. Add simple paint-by-numbers, click here then here

      Even drawing an arrow from somewhere to somewhere is crap, I usually just do it crayon-style like a 5yo. And it's always destructive editing, no layers you can flatten when you're happy with it or keep for later adjustments. So it's for simple internal one-offs only, I feel like I'm back in the stone age with hammer and chisel when I use it.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    9. Re:They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get rid of Notepad as well. Horrible, horrible buggy interface. That webdesigners from early age love it speaks volume about the "art" of web programming.

      Geany/Linux or Notepad++ are usable alternatives, but of course you need to download and install, which is not so handy sometimes.

    10. Re: They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Here are several extremely common tasks Paint is supremely efficient at, therefore it must be abolished.

      Screw you if you think I'm going to fuck around with layers just to draw a black box or an arrow on something.

    11. Re:They miss the point. by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's one issue. The other is that the precedent for "Oh, it's available in the store now!" were the solitaire suite games, which were wholly rewritten and changed into adware/nagware shadows of their former selves.

      What's the betting that Paint is dead, and the Microsoft app called "Paint" in the store will also be a rewritten ad-infested "cloud-enabled" piece of crap?

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    12. Re:They miss the point. by MangoCats · · Score: 1

      Well, now you've got ubiquity via the Microsoft Store, and if your "helpee" doesn't have paint installed, you can spend five minutes educating them about the Microsoft Store... free advertising for Microsoft Store - did you get the part in the article where she said Microsoft Store, I think it's something they're promoting.

      And, do you really think a company that pushes lengthy restart updates at you every couple of weeks gives a damn about your time or convenience?

    13. Re: They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They should integrate Paint's features into the Snipping Tool. It's a PITA to do highlighting in Snip, then copy to Paint, add text and arrows, oops, forgot something, take a new Snip, add more highlighting, back to Paint...

    14. Re:They miss the point. by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Out of curiosity, why?

      I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentative, but MS Paint always seemed like such a crappy program. Hearing that there's an outpouring of support for keeping it seems weird.

      So let me ask, what's the concern here? Couldn't you just download an alternative? Or does MS Paint do something that other paint programs don't? Is the point that people want some kind of graphic editor pre-installed in Windows? Or if Microsoft open sourced Paint, would that satisfy people? What, exactly, isn't satisfying about their new "Paint 3D"? Or is this just an issue of impractical nostalgia for a crappy old app that's been around for decades?

      Personally, I'd be in favor of Microsoft doing more to modernize all of their old built-in apps. Notepad, Wordpad, and Paint could all probably use a rethink/rewrite, and not just new icons and a ribbon toolbar.

      I can also say, I'd prefer Microsoft not make these kinds of built-in apps in the new Modern/Metro style. Those UI conventions suck for desktop use.

    15. Re:They miss the point. by kbg · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I can instruct my grandma through the phone to open paint, paste an image and save it. But trying to get her to create a new Microsoft Account for login into Windows Store and then download Paint from there is just to complex to even work at all.

    16. Re:They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I called this yesterday before I ever saw any articles about MS Paint moving to the Store. This was probably their plan all along. MS says they are removing Paint expecting people to complain, then MS states we listened to you and are going to keep Paint. Now MS has the illusion of looking good while actually screwing the people over by forcing them to the MS store.

      Screw MS. They've been going down the toilet for a while now. People that can need to get away from Microsoft.
       

    17. Re: They miss the point. by norweeg · · Score: 1

      are portable apps https://portableapps.com/apps/... not an option??

    18. Re: They miss the point. by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      >Here are several extremely common tasks Paint is supremely efficient at, therefore it must be abolished.

      Screw you if you think I'm going to fuck around with layers just to draw a black box or an arrow on something.

      For those tasks you really don't need to but photoshop has a tendency to lock out a jpg when you just open it and unless you know how to unlock it you're going to be banging your head of the screen screaming "why the fuck won't you just work!?!" Same if you manage to select something small without realising it and photoshop refuses to do anything.

      For some one who doesn't know what they're doing and just wants to do something seemingly incredibly simple, photoshop is more likely to give you an aneurysm!

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    19. Re: They miss the point. by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      As far as the IT guys are concerned, even if you aren't "installing" the application, simply running any unapproved applications on a machine you are still breaking the rules. There isn't really a difference between install a program using a .MSI file and copying the files onto you hard disk (or even plugging in a USB drive) and running it. You're still breaking IT policy by using non-approved software on a work machine.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    20. Re: They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen this frustration more often than I would have expected, both from friends/family and in online forums. I'll grant that for simple tasks, layers are unnecessary.

      What I can't figure out is: what is so difficult about the concept of layers? It is a stack of mostly transparent images. The top layer is....on top, and the bottom layer is... on the bottom. How does such a straightforward metaphor not translate for so many people?

    21. Re:They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Simple reasons:
      1) You need to take a screen shot on someone else's computer for them. You don't feel comfortable in installing new crap on their computer, so you like to use tools that are there. Paint was always there to cut and paste into and allowing you to save the image. Now it involves a software download or having backup strategies for various computers.
      2) You're remotely diagnosing a problem with someone who doesn't know which side of the keyboard is up. You need to use tools they have. Talking them through an additional install is troublesome.
      3) Your internet connection goes down and you want to grab a screenshot of error message responsible. No internet connect, no windows store, no online help. If you don't know about the existence of the clipping tool, you're boned - as opposed to being able to get by just fine with paint.

      Putting paint on the store is the same as not having it at all. The second I'm forced to download anything, I'll choose a better image editing program. But when I know paint can get the job done, then why bother with an additional install? There's no reason to mess with things that work.

    22. Re:They miss the point. by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

      Exactly this.

      Microsoft has NEVER understood the user experience. i.e. It took the 15 years, 1980 until 1995, to offer support for "Long File Names."

      Microsoft, -1 Over-rated User Experience

    23. Re:They miss the point. by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Microsoft prefers that if someone has windows, they also will have Microsoft account and the Surfaces to display ads.

      FTFY

    24. Re: They miss the point. by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      What is obvious to you and I, sadly, is NOT obvious to others.

      The majority of people ARE stupid -- as every election proves. Why They have no frame of reference to understand and apply the concept(s). They have never had to deal with a stack of transparent slides such as used in those old-skool overhead projectors.

      Worse, they don't _care_ to learn.

      You can fix ignorant, you can't fix stupid.

      MS Paint "works" because it has been made idiot proof.

    25. Re:They miss the point. by epine · · Score: 1

      I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentative, but MS Paint always seemed like such a crappy program.

      I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentative, but Grandma always seemed like such a useless person.

      Yeah, you're right, but she doesn't take up much space and she's the only person in the house who can consistently walk into a strange kitchen and crank out perfect fettuccine noodles without having to hoist an unfamiliar stand mixer onto a foreign countertop, and then dig through all the cupboards for a noodle attachment, if the cheap IT bastards even have one lying around.

      But she's really old and out of date and doesn't even use ribbons!

      Well, suit yourself, but I'd rather keep the old bird around, in the handy drawer in the closet under the staircase, where she's been living quietly without making a fuss for the last 35 years.

    26. Re:They miss the point. by nine-times · · Score: 1

      So you're implying that this is all about sentimentality? People feel about MS Paint the way a person might feel about their grandmother?

    27. Re:They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the betting that Paint is dead, and the Microsoft app called "Paint" in the store will also be a rewritten ad-infested "cloud-enabled" piece of crap?

      Also with extra telemetry to detect copyright circumvention attempts? You bet.

      Microsoft is desperately trying to justify both the existence of the Windows Store (by making all of the standard "apps" not a part of the OS installation), and Windows 10's forced update model. (by changing the UI every 5 minutes.)

      The bad thing about Windows 10 apps is the fact they are not installed system-wide. They are installed on a per-user basis. Which means you'll have multiple copies of each app for each user on a given machine. This doesn't effect home users because no-one has released a copy of DOOM (2016) (or an equivalent storage hog) on the Windows Store, but the second they do, home users will probably switch back to using one user account for all users (with Admin rights too) to keep the extra disk space they would otherwise loose. So we'd be right back to Win9x era of "everyone is an Administrator" because Microsoft is incompetent.

      The bad thing about Windows 10's forced update model, needs not to be said here. (It's been said countless times already.) But, the fact that to justify it they have to keep changing the UI in a visible to the user way, means that eventually people will get tired of it. (People don't like change.) This constant appification of standard OS components is only going to hasten this fact. Especially with sysadmins who are getting tired of the multiple app thing above. Now imagine their response to needing an app installed per user for something like the File Manager, or Remote Desktop.

      Microsoft seems determined to kill Windows with they way they are acting. Of course they won't succeed. There's too many idiots who look at a PC and think Microsoft made the thing for that to happen. But there is definitely going to be a breaking point, where business comes along and says: "No more of this shit. You give us a copy that works, and our admins can configure correctly, or we'll jump ship."

    28. Re:They miss the point. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Yes, you need the account to get anything from the store, even if free.

    29. Re:They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Found the aspie!

      P.S. It's you.

    30. Re: They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have no frame of reference to understand...

      Right, but that is where I remain in disbelief. Have they ever constructed a sandwich? Do they see the slice of meat between the gaps of the sliced cheese, and the cheese+meat in the unoccupied area of the onion layer and so on? There's likely >100 food analogies I can pull out of my ass and countless examples related to vision in general (See how that billboard obstructs the sky behind it? You do know that there is sky behind it?).

      The only folks who would truly have no experience in this would be born blind people, and I expect you could still get them close to understanding using the sense of touch.

    31. Re: They miss the point. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      If someone doesnt know what they're doing, they probably should not have purchased a highly overpriced Photoshop in the first place.

    32. Re:They miss the point. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      None of their "Metro" apps are worth the time it takes to open them. They're all dysfunctional, especially the ones written by Microsoft. Seriously, the browser based version of Bing is more useful than the Bing app, what does that say when Microsoft can't even be bothered to write a decent app for one of their top strategic plans to overtake Google?

    33. Re:They miss the point. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Well, when Windows 8.0 was first out, I would have agreed. Microsoft was intentionally trying to kill the desktop version of Windows. They were turning a thousand dollar PC into a smartphone wannabe, because they were trying to get their own smartphone to take off. But fast forward and even Microsoft cannot deny that a Windows phone is never going to succeed, they keep sabotaging that product too. So killing the desktop can't be their plan, unless they're just so much more incompetent that we ever imagined.

      Right now their money is from the business market only. The home market is tepid and are moving away from full blown PCs towards phones and tablets, or anything that can have a browser. Out of the business market, the enterprise is the real bread and butter, they're the ones that buy Microsoft products wholesale. The enterprise isn't going to give a damn about a stupid store, they don't even allow their users to install their own products. They want Office, and only Office. And yet the enterprise is starting to move away from Windows and Office in many ways; the servers are being replaced with Linux or cloud services, Macs are showing up more often in R&D, and once that door is cracked open there's going to be a lot of IT execs who start realizing they don't need to stay in bed with Microsoft. If Microsoft did have a brain they would see this and start acting a lot nicer to this market segment.

    34. Re:They miss the point. by vlueboy · · Score: 1

      So you're implying that this is all about sentimentality? People feel about MS Paint the way a person might feel about their grandmother?

      Tech people suck at empathy --your post is an example against letting us tech people make important decisions. In other sciences, there isn't a marked absence of checks and balances, certification, regulations / fines / jailtime, design oversight bodies... and the world is a bit more stable because of that. Let's imagine how doctors in similar decisions would be allowed to act in the absence of the Hippocratic oath, when all their Slashdot versions say seemingly translates to "not my problem," "that's an easy DIY task/patient, heal yourself" and "just get a new one"

      Of course, power users don't care that for every one of us that can google an alternative, there are dozens of regular Joes that will each contribute to wastes of time as we try to level the playing field.

      Is it so hard to see that this is less about sentimentality and more about familiarity and NETWORK effects? Ignoring sentimental reasons here, when grandma dies, you'd need a "hire" a new noodles person or find / keep using a subpar one. When grandma is killed off on purpose because, well, feeding her must be HUGELY affecting MS's bottom line, more evidence comes out that nothing is off-limits.

      Going back to network effects here, imagine if the internet decided to shut down mail apps and POP3 / IMAP overnight. All the knowledgeable suckers switching to outlook Webmail would have to jump through some hoops, but the damage comes from knowing that email will never be the same again --you'll have to ask each person you reach if they do see the program (which for some /.-impaired is a difficult enough waste of 10 minutes) and force them through setting up the webmail account (or signing up to the MS store in this case) when all I want is a quick way for them to send my helpdesk a screenshot with some cropping and markings that can't be conveyed well over a phonecall.

      Imaging that Facebook decides to disable N % of their accounts because they're unprofitable (below x percent of logged hours per year), under the guides of being presumed inactive or dead: just like with the webmail example above --killing an existing assumption be disabling random nodes in your "network" leads to confusing talks about why something isn't where expected and how to fix it.

    35. Re:They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only people that would be upset about a removal of Paint would be Windows 10 users, if you're that hard up about the Microsoft Store then stop fucking using their products! And if you really need to use it and you really need to use MSPaint then create a free account with a fake name and address.

    36. Re: They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The majority of people ARE stupid -- as every election proves.

      Ok we get it, you fucking love Trump. More people voted for Clinton and you think those people are stupid in the context of politics but what does that have to do with understanding of layers? You think nobody that uses Photoshop voted for Clinton and that they all voted for Trump?

    37. Re:They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congratulations, you are a complete idiot.

    38. Re: They miss the point. by n329619 · · Score: 1

      On the bright side, maybe this will make organizations include something better than MS Paint

      Meaning they will include nothing at all. You might include something, but there are plenty of organization don't give any shit about it until they themselves personally use it. The employees will only be left to suffer.

    39. Re: They miss the point. by n329619 · · Score: 1

      It's not about option. It's about default and expected behavior. Paint is (was) a default program on windows. So you know it is available on any windows machine. Helpful when you need to quick print screen to highlight something, or draw down something basic without installing, downloading or anything that requires online on someone else machine.

      If it is your own machine, you surely can get the portable software. But someone else machine? You might need either machine or owner permission. If you have neither, Paint is default available for you to use without you getting any additional permission. This is why it's not about option.

    40. Re:They miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck that. I'd prefer non-essential programs not be a part of the OS. That includes web browsers as well as image editors.

      What I'd like Microsoft to work on, which they won't (of course), is getting rid of the spyware, the ads, the application hijacking and the removal of power from the user with forced (usually detrimental) updates and forced reboots. Even if they just made a pay version that was a real OS while a "free" (microtransaction and ad operated) version remained the locked-down child's safety coated video game UI.

    41. Re:They miss the point. by fisted · · Score: 1

      Microsoft prefers that if someone has Windows, they also will have Microsoft account and the Surfaces to display ads.

      FTFY

      FTFTFY. If your grammer naziing, at leest do it write.

    42. Re:They miss the point. by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Nazi is a proper noun, even when you're verbing the noun. Maybe.

    43. Re:They miss the point. by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Tech people suck at empathy --your post is an example against letting us tech people make important decisions.

      It might show that, or it might show that you're really bad at metaphors. You compared removing MS Paint from the default install to killing a person's grandmother. And now you're saying that the reason it's bad to murder someone's grandmother is because of "network effects", including needing to hire a new person to make noodles...?

      I wasn't even dismissing the possibility that MS Paint might be important. I started by asking if someone could clarify why people were upset by losing it.

      Of course, power users don't care that for every one of us that can google an alternative, there are dozens of regular Joes that will each contribute to wastes of time as we try to level the playing field.

      This sentence *almost* makes sense, but I'm still not sure exactly what you're going for. Regardless, you don't even need to google for an alternative if you don't want to. Windows 10 now included "Paint 3D", which can also be used for the things that "Paint" has been used for. If those regular Joes are so clueless that they don't know how to use Google, they probably won't even know the difference.

      At least, I might guess that. I'm not sure, because no one has really answered my question as to why people are so upset. It may be that people are upset at the loss of some functionality of MS Paint that I'm unaware of, or unaware that people are making use of it.

      Going back to network effects here, imagine if the internet decided to shut down mail apps and POP3 / IMAP overnight.

      Unless you don't have any idea what you're talking about, you know that's very different from Microsoft no longer including Paint in the default Windows install. So not only are you bad at metaphors, but also bad at hypothetical examples.

    44. Re: They miss the point. by norweeg · · Score: 1

      That's the point of portable apps, though. You don't need admin rights, you don't need to install them. They are bundled such that they can be run from any directory, usually a flash drive, without installation.

  3. That's no app by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not an app, it's a program. Apps suck. MS-Paint lives forever.

    --
    If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    1. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's been an app for decades. When did it stop being an app?

    2. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's never been an app.

      apps are for fones.

    3. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Paint has never been an app.

      Even though app seems like it's short for application it is rather short for "Mobile Application". As in made for a smartphone or tablet.

      If they transform it into one expect it to have no keyboard shortcuts, minimal settings, and be optimized for a touchscreen.

    4. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      This. I refuse to call proper desktop applications/programs - even small ones - "apps". An app is what you get when you port a 1990's flash game to iOS and add microtransactions.

    5. Re:That's no app by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Thanks for the full explanation. Apps on a desktop or laptop are those crappy things Microsoft added on Windows 8 and 10, like the Photos app, that take the full screen, can't be minimized, have no menu, and are all designed for touch use.

      MSpaint is a program that is often used for screen grabs and touchups. It doesn't have a thousand features, but it also loads almost instantly (just opened it to verify speed). It is a useful tool, and apparently is one I will keep on a thumbdrive to add to future computers as needed.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    6. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For fuck's sake, talk about nitpicking.

      "App" is a shortening of "application", which is what MS Paint is. It's a Win32 application that will be distributed via the Store, but it is still a typical desktop application (or program if you will) in the traditional sense. The Store has lots of desktop applications now, even open source ones - Inkscape, Paint .NET, Kodi, etc.

      Point is, just because the term app has a connotation with crappy mobile programs is just because it's a popularized word. It's still a shortening of application, a term used since forever. I bet you hate how people use the word "hacker" instead of the word "cracker", am I right?

    7. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hell, the term "app" has been around since at least the mid 80s.

    8. Re:That's no app by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      I refuse to call proper desktop applications/programs - even small ones - "apps".

      Oh, really? That's funny, I (and most of my peers) have been calling them "apps" for about 20 years now, since well before smartphones were even a thing.

      (Lucky for you, I don't have a lawn to tell you get off of.)

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    9. Re:That's no app by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Even though app seems like it's short for application it is rather short for "Mobile Application".

      Bullshit. People have been shortening application to app for decades. NeXTSTEP, OPENSTEP, and Mac OS X all used .app as the file extension for applications, used NSApp as the global variable that holds a pointer to the current application object, and used App in their marketing terminology since the '80s. iOS apps were called apps because that's the same term that Apple has used on the desktop since it was a company called NeXT, trying to redefine the term to only mean mobile apps is nonsense.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re:That's no app by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      Oh, really? That's funny, I (and most of my peers) have never called them "apps" for about 40 years now, and still don't. Apps are on smartphones and cheap tablets.

      Get off my damn lawn.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    11. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      trying to redefine the term to only mean mobile apps is nonsense.

      Except phones/Apple ruined the term. "App" in 2017 means Snapchat or fucking Flappy Dunk, not a functional tool designed to help people do meaningful work or a cutting-edge game that's actually more than a facade for exploitative microtransactions and ad spam.

      Face it, the word is lost. I agree "application" and "program" are a little cumbersome, but if we want something shorter it has to be something new.

    12. Re:That's no app by Dog-Cow · · Score: 0

      Your sig and your post both point to your genuine and long-lasting idiocy.

    13. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      two reasons why they're doing this... neither one has anything to do with ms paint and how excruciatingly difficult it must be for microsoft to keep such a mundane application up-to-date with the new chrome-like rapid release schedule of windows versions.

      "apps" in the store have more built-in telemetry and user tracking than even windows 10 itself does.

      ads. how much you want to wager that the "new" paint app will have in-app ads like the solitaire collection does that replaced the previously-included windows games? and that just like those games, they'll remove the ads for a subscription fee?

    14. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      deep breath there, neckbeard. you'll pop another button off your size 48 dockers.

    15. Re:That's no app by DickBreath · · Score: 2

      > apps are for fones.

      That's Foans. Like groans. Moans. Loans. Koans.

      Example in a sentence: You can barraw mah sail foan.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    16. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? Stein was better than Clinton, and Trump. You got someone better still?

    17. Re:That's no app by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Progs?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    18. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. This. A million times this. pbrush.exe is not an app. pbrush.exe has never been an app. pbrush.exe will never be an app.

      Now get off my fucking lawn.

      That is all.

    19. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you, new around here that you still push the "I'm older than you" fad?

    20. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Charge adobe/paintshop/etc to put adds in the new paint app. Get people to download and use it. GET PAINTSHOP PRO! NEED MORE TOOLS? TRY OUT PHOTOSHOP ONLINE NOW BY CLICKING HERE!

    21. Re:That's no app by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      An app is what you get when you port a 1990's flash game to iOS and add microtransactions.

      Now I want to play defend your castle on my phone although it might be too easy with a touch interface.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    22. Re: That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or it will come with a pencil tool, and the color black. Tools and colors available for a small subscription fee.

    23. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An "app" is a web browser that is programmed to visit only one site in particular.

    24. Re:That's no app by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      Progs?

      Already in use for a 'block of programming' in video, radio, or serialized printed media. Although it is probably more of a British term and American.

    25. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's some rich, frothy revisionist bullshit! The only instance of people using the term "app" prior to mobile phones was when people used the term "killer app." That's it.

    26. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, so now you want us to log into not only the MS Account to download the "free" app, but also the Adobe Account to use it, and get ads from (and give your personal information to) both. And you'll be able to use it how, while closing all those ads?

    27. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. I refuse to call proper desktop applications/programs - even small ones - "apps". An app is what you get when you port a 1990's flash game to iOS and add microtransactions.

      Yeah, and I refuse to refer to Donald Trump as "President". Unfortunate as it may be, just because you don't use the term, doesn't mean that it still doesn't apply.

    28. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lighten up, Francis

    29. Re: That's no app by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I've been shortening application(s) to app(s) for decades. I'm pretty sure I didn't invent it. I'm also sure it predates smartphones. I'm pretty sure it predates the smartphone by at least a decade, maybe two.

      However, you can hang out on my lawn, I don't mind.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    30. Re:That's no app by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Apps are those dumbed down things on smartphones. Bundle some pictures and URLs inside some XML, with zero code, and you've got an "app". Whereas Microsoft Paint was an "application"; people wrote code for it, it runs on the machine locally and not in the cloud.

    31. Re:That's no app by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Everyone in that campaign and the primaries was better than Clinton or Trump, it's not like it was a high bar to overcome.

    32. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #MSPaintLivesMatter

    33. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh that's funny. I and most of my peers have.

      C:\\apps FTW

    34. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. You're not even old enough to remember a world without smartphones, but back in the 90s, 80s and 70s, we did call applications "apps" for short all of the time.

    35. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      closing all those ads?

      Closing ads? What the fuck?

      You do not close ads. When you see an ad, you look at it, you rationalize a need for the advertised product and then you go the fuck out and purchase the fucking product.

      What are you kids learning at school these days?

    36. Re:That's no app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You got that backwards, junior. We older folks don't rush out to buy everything we are instructed to buy like you little millennials do. That's why people my age have homes, savings, health insurance and retirement funds while people your age have a Facebook account and fidget spinners.

  4. They still don't get it by istartedi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People who prefer the Windows ecosystem that traces its roots to DOS don't want to interact with a "store" to get things done. Paint has been part of the default install longer than "app stores" have even been a thing. It's like vi on Linux.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    1. Re:They still don't get it by Barny · · Score: 5, Insightful

      To use the Windows Store at all (even for free things), you need to log in with your Microsoft account. Once that is done, you have now matched your install of windows directly to YOU. Congrats, now you get ads and you get a screwed up log in system.

      Basically, they are fishing for ways to encourage people to sync up with their store for ads and more, paint is just the latest bait to do this.

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    2. Re:They still don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently hiding the method to even install windows without an account didn't work as well as they hoped. Knowledgeable people now know the correct button in windows is now almost always a little hyperlink styled text hidden somewhere, not the prominent one that looks like a button.

    3. Re:They still don't get it by iampiti · · Score: 2

      100% Agree. This is another of their tactics to get people used to the Windows Store. Didn't they do the same thing with Solitaire?
      They're hellbent on removing the classic programs from Windows. Soon only the touch-optimized versions will remain. It is as if they wanted to make Windows hip by presenting it as a touch-first OS. "Look, we're just like Android and iOS, please use Windows instead a tablet with them".
      I don't care if they add a touch optimized UI for Windows but please leave the mouse-optimized version (the OS itself, and the programs) alone.

    4. Re:They still don't get it by iampiti · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They want everyone to forget that there was a world where you didn't need a Microsoft login and an app store to do things on Windows.
      If you don't use those how are they going to gather data on you and earn money through their cut on the apps?.
      I don't like iPhones but I don't mind their existance. They only thing I hold against them is that made acceptable the walled garden model to the masses. Now Microsoft is trying the same thing with Windows. Disgusting.

    5. Re: They still don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd better forget about that world because it's gone and won't come back. Ever.

    6. Re:They still don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't get why people feel so strongly about paint. Paint is terrible, as are most default Windows applications (notepad, edge, etc).

      Frankly, they could drop all of the default applications and include the ONE thing that Windows lacks to be a decent OS: a good package manager.

      Every major OS has had one for ages. It is absurd to have to use Edge (shudder) or IE (shudder, shudder) to download Firefox, to THEN use it to download all the crap that you need to get things done - which, let us be honest here, includes a notepad and paint replacement.

      It's archaic and really, really stupid. People - from sysadmins to end users - would KILL to have this feature.

      The core problem here, then, isn't that they are removing paint and solitaire and so on. The problem is that their package manager blows. They tried to shoehorn a walled garden mentality into a traditionally, er, open OS, pissing everyone off - from sysadmins to end users - in the process.

      Microsoft knows this, but they also know they need this to stay relevant. Hence the pathetic attempts to make people use it: gutting features, windows store exclusives and so on.

    7. Re:They still don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't get why people feel so strongly about paint. Paint is terrible, as are most default Windows applications (notepad, edge, etc).

      Because now when you are dealing with a problem a Windows user has you can say "Paste it in Paint/Notepad, edit the password away and mail it to X." Somebody who truly dislikes Paint/Edit will just do the same but using their editor of choice.

      Without these programs, it becomes: "What editor do you use? OK, go to the Windows Store and install Paint. You don't have a Store account? OK, google for 'Inkscape' and install that. (wait for fifteen minutes) So, what was your problem again?"

    8. Re:They still don't get it by Subm · · Score: 4, Funny

      > It's like vi on Linux

      I also use vi for quick image editing on GNU/Linux.

    9. Re: They still don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just like Australia Post is forcing people to give 100 points of id including photo id just to use their load and go cards

    10. Re: They still don't get it by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 1

      Don't be so sure, the mainframe made a come back in the form of the "cloud".

      --
      There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
    11. Re:They still don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't like iPhones but I don't mind their existance. They only thing I hold against them is that made acceptable the walled garden model to the masses.

      That's like saying the only thing you didn't like about the Trojan Horse was all those Greeks.

    12. Re:They still don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No you don't. I have several Win 10 VMs, and none of them use a Microsoft account. I've downloaded Netflix and several other free apps, all without a Microsoft account.

      You still get ads, of course. I'd also rather not have to download Paint from the store, but my point is, with some exceptions, you don't have to log in to use the store.

    13. Re:They still don't get it by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      > People who prefer the Windows ecosystem that traces its roots to DOS
      > don't want to interact with a "store" to get things done.

      I don't want to be accused of preferring that ecosystem.

      But if Microsoft is bringing back Paint, can they please Please PLEASE bring back edlin!

      And a text based clippy for DOS wouldn't be bad either.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    14. Re:They still don't get it by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      The Apple and Microsoft store is pure evil. That is why I use Ubuntu and install everything via apt.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    15. Re:They still don't get it by jlowery · · Score: 1

      You only use vi because Microsoft yanked edlin years ago. Try finding that in the Store, sucker.

      --
      If you post it, they will read.
    16. Re:They still don't get it by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 1

      To use the Windows Store at all (even for free things), you need to log in with your Microsoft account. Once that is done, you have now matched your install of windows directly to YOU. Congrats, now you get ads and you get a screwed up log in system.

      This is not true. If you don't login to Windows with a Microsoft account, you can login directly on a per-app basis (including the Store app) without messing with anything else on the system.

    17. Re:They still don't get it by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      +1 Insightful, +1 Funny
       
      // jstar / nano / mcedit user

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
    18. Re:They still don't get it by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      It's like vi on Linux.

      Funny that. It seems like the first thing I need to do now when I fire up a new linux install is run apt-get install vi.

    19. Re:They still don't get it by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      To use the Windows Store at all (even for free things), you need to log in with your Microsoft account.

      No you don't. You only need a Microsoft account to pay for a paid app. You can happily log into windows store without a Microsoft account.

    20. Re:They still don't get it by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      They want everyone to forget that there was a world where you didn't need a Microsoft login and an app store to do things on Windows.

      Do they now? Is that why they just added the option of downloading things from the app store without any Microsoft account?

      How ... devious?... of them?

    21. Re:They still don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also wrong. You do need to log in, at least for the Store though not for the whole computer, to download stuff. Even free stuff. Yes, you are tracked. If you're really worried about it, restart the computer after you're done (to erase any ephemeral stuff that may have been left by the Store) and be sure you're logging in to the computer using a local limited-user account.

      In general, I don't log in to the computer with my MS Account. I reserve that for things that need it: my phone & my tablet. For all my other computers, I log in to the computer in a limited local account, logging in to MS Account only in the apps that need it, or use my MS Account via a browser (Firefox, so I know and can control what other domains I'm being connected to using NoScript).

    22. Re:They still don't get it by omnichad · · Score: 1

      It is as if they wanted to make Windows hip by presenting it as a touch-first OS

      Still better than Windows 8 that was designed more as a touch-only OS.

    23. Re:They still don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hey, I actually had to learn how to use edlin just a month or two ago.

      (Had NEC's version of DOS 5 in a virtual machine. Couldn't find its edit.exe. Found edlin. Used it to do some edits to autoexec.bat. Later on, learned that the editor was called sedit.exe)

    24. Re:They still don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not true. If you don't login to Windows with a Microsoft account, you can login directly on a per-app basis (including the Store app) without messing with anything else on the system.

      Not sure what you're saying . Does this login on a per-app basis not require a Microsoft account? If not then why does it matter?

    25. Re:They still don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They should bring back Z (it is a tiny text editor with vi key bindings that weight in at under 50KB (yes, that is kilo bytes) although you do need an ANSI console driver which will cost you a few extra KBs. Borland use to include them with their TurboAsm and TurboPascal products in the mid 80's. I actually bought a few licenses for my development team (not because we use Pascal or 8086 assembler) just to have a properly licensed editor on the PC that does not suck.
      I look at the bloated monstrosities these day and wish somebody can make something that lightweight. It was snappy on a 4.7MHz 8088. Think how may text files that you need to take a quick look/edit that can fit under 64K size.

    26. Re:They still don't get it by terjeber · · Score: 1

      that traces its roots to DOS

      A digression, I know, but: This is actually not the case. Windows traces its root to VAX/VMS to a greater degree than it traces its roots to DOS. Windows 95/98/Me and Windows NT come from two very different places.

    27. Re:They still don't get it by istartedi · · Score: 1

      From the PoV of many (most?) users, it's rooted in DOS. Users living through the era saw 3.x as a program you launched under DOS. Then, the DOS prompt and the ability to launch DOS-based games was retained for a really long time. Even in versions of Windows based on NT, familiar artifacts of the DOS world, such as .BAT files, still work. Modern windows is like a Fordillac--a Ford hot-rod with a Cadillac engine. Is the car rooted in Ford or GM? I guess there's an argument both ways.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    28. Re:They still don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They didn't add anything. They took away tons of functionality and control, then try to sell it back a piece at a time. All the while brainless, drooling sycophants like you sit there and clap like trained seals.

  5. Making the store relevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess that's one way of getting people to use the app store. Its not going to work, the store is horrible.

    Are Microsoft really going to keep trying to make this "app" store popular? Give it up already, this is Windows.

  6. So have we confirmed the new version has ads? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To be fair, for all I know it already does...

    >You must reset your router before using this resource;

  7. Microsft need to free base the paint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to free to each people of the orld .

    1. Re:Microsft need to free base the paint by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      Instead of freebasing paint, can Microsoft take paint by intravenous injection?

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  8. Maybe... JUST MAYBE.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If we complain enough,we can make them abandon Windows 10, and go back to 7.

    1. Re:Maybe... JUST MAYBE.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you're going to dream, dream big.

    2. Re:Maybe... JUST MAYBE.. by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      What are you saying, that if we complain loud enough we can get Microsoft to go back to Windows 95 ?

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    3. Re: Maybe... JUST MAYBE.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Install Ubuntu

  9. It's mind-boggling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The amount of effort in trying to get rid of a tiny program. How about improving Windows so that a single program waiting to save a file doesn't halt the shutdown process?

    How can it be a system-stopping event to save a file in the era of terabyte hard disk and gigahertz processors?

    Just SAVE THE FUCKING FILE then shut down!!

    1. Re:It's mind-boggling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just SAVE THE FUCKING FILE then shut down!!

      OK, but SAVE IT WITH A DIFFERENT FILE NAME, so that the original file has not been replaced without warning.

  10. it did not from the very beginning by mapkinase · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The plan was to stop supporting and _eventually_ drop it.

    This is in line with the alarming industry trend of dropping something very stable and unchangeable (ergo, does not bring any money) in favor of something experimental and unstable that you will be able to sell to clueless buyers.

    Similar to impossibility of having practically eternal products, stable software products of private industry are impossible as well.

    Have you been to the grocery chains recently? Remember the hype of LED lamps? It was hard to find a good incadescent in my grocery store at one point, majority of the shelf space was covered by LEDs. Now the situation is back to the beginning: majority are incadescents, LEDs are in minority.

    Welcome to the late stage capitalism

    --
    I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    1. Re:it did not from the very beginning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you been to the grocery chains recently? Remember the hype of LED lamps? It was hard to find a good incadescent in my grocery store at one point, majority of the shelf space was covered by LEDs. Now the situation is back to the beginning: majority are incadescents, LEDs are in minority.

      Welcome to the late stage capitalism

      Hmm? I found the opposite; my local grocery stores didn't carry LED, just incandescents and some cfl; now that LED price has dropped they carry all three with an emphasis on LED.

      I don't see how LED lights is a very good comparison really...

    2. Re:it did not from the very beginning by dj245 · · Score: 1

      The plan was to stop supporting and _eventually_ drop it.

      This is in line with the alarming industry trend of dropping something very stable and unchangeable (ergo, does not bring any money) in favor of something experimental and unstable that you will be able to sell to clueless buyers.

      Similar to impossibility of having practically eternal products, stable software products of private industry are impossible as well.

      Have you been to the grocery chains recently? Remember the hype of LED lamps? It was hard to find a good incadescent in my grocery store at one point, majority of the shelf space was covered by LEDs. Now the situation is back to the beginning: majority are incadescents, LEDs are in minority.

      Welcome to the late stage capitalism

      Who buys light bulbs at the grocery store? They are generally marked up between 150-300% of the cost at a big-box retailer.

      I would guess at those prices, turnover is low. I have seen lots of home goods at the grocery store that are laughably out of date. Especially electronics. Your grocery store might have decided that stocking incandescents is better than stocking LEDs since LEDs are still getting cheaper (depreciating) while incandescents are more stable in price.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    3. Re:it did not from the very beginning by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      >Who buys light bulbs at the grocery store? They are generally marked up between 150-300% of the cost at a big-box retailer.

      Laziness. I said it. I admitted it.

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
  11. Instead... by volodymyrbiryuk · · Score: 1

    Microsoft announced it will kill Windows an all attached sofware all together. They added that this step is immediate and irrevocable but necessary to spare PC users over the world further suffering.

    --
    sudo rm -r -f --no-preserve-root /
  12. Give it three months... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Give it a good three months and Paint will be quietly dropped by Microsoft, with deathly silence in response to any and all complaints.

    Perhaps four months if they can find a way to jury rig some spyware into it.

  13. Features that are removed or deprecated in Windows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Features that are removed or deprecated in Windows 10 Fall Creators Update https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4034825/features-that-are-removed-or-deprecated-in-windows-10-fall-creators-up

  14. Paint today. QBasic tomorrow!!! by Salgak1 · · Score: 2

    Nostalgic me misses the old QBasic that came with DOS and early Win9x (I seem to recall that it went away after Win98). I taught my daughters their initial lessons in programming in QBasic. . .

    1. Re:Paint today. QBasic tomorrow!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what IDLE is for!

    2. Re:Paint today. QBasic tomorrow!!! by jason777 · · Score: 1

      Lol, in high school all I had was qbasic. I got a book "Qbasic games and more" that provided a TSR that allowed you to use the mouse in Qbasic. On topic, I wrote a Paint-like program in qbasic where you could draw shapes (rectangle, ellipse, etc) and it also did 3d boxes! My program would save to image binary format, OR generate qbasic statements to redraw the graphics. I used it to do my final project in programming class where we had to use graphics statements to make a picture. Of course, my picture was a very detailed christmas scene, complete with an animated train around a christmas tree, and background music!

    3. Re:Paint today. QBasic tomorrow!!! by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      --You can still download Qbasic and use it in Win7 32-bit. Not sure of any Win versions after that, tho.

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
    4. Re:Paint today. QBasic tomorrow!!! by CaseCrash · · Score: 1

      Oh, man. QBasic was my first language. Seven years old typing programs out of a magazine. I loved it. I'm gonna go see if I can run it on DOSBOX.

      --
      No, that link you posted to a web comic we've all seen a hundred times is not "obligatory."
  15. Still hurts for the enterprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The per user basis of the windows store still makes this a pain in the ass for those of us that manage images in the enterprise.

  16. why not this too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're fucking everything else up why not this too?

  17. 3D by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wish they would just leave Paint alone and remove all of the 3D stuff in Windows 10 Creators Update that I have no use for. It's like Microsoft is trying it's best to kill off Windows. And that's a good thing.

  18. Great! by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

    Now, can we get the pinball game back also?

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:Great! by norweeg · · Score: 1

      that was never part of a base install, it was in an add-on bundle that a lot of people had. I miss that, chip's challenge, and ski free. Technically you can download ski free from it's creator for free. He somehow retained the rights to it

    2. Re:Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you also download the fact that it's means it is?

    3. Re:Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Skifree32 is available and works on 64-bit Windows:
      https://archive.org/details/SkiFree_1020
      http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/24468/SkiFree.html

      As for the other (16-bit) Windows games: if you still have your Windows 3.1 disks, they install and run perfectly under DOSBox. Of course, if you don't have a floppy drive you might need to find somebody who does to make a ISO from the floppies. Once installed, build a suitable DOSBox config and autoexec, a batch file to start it, and a shortcut to that. Presto, Win3.1 running in a window under 64-bit Windows even Windows 10.

  19. It's a step in the right direction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft pays attention to the user base for once
    When they scream "stop don't change it damnit!". Haven't seen that happen before.

  20. The incandecent bulbs are back, but the ratings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    have changed. Now they have '100' on the label (or whatever the old actual rating) to make you think they are 100-watt bulbs, but they are only 73 or 83 watt [which is the smaller number somewhere on the packaging]. So, thanks to congress, manufactures are now required to mislead you on the label. Remember when congress required you to *not* mislabel products? I do.

    1. Re:The incandecent bulbs are back, but the ratings by omnichad · · Score: 1

      60 will always mean 840 lumens to me. They still list how many lumens, which is much more important than the wattage.

  21. Free. At what cost? by sonamchauhan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Free stuff is given at the pleasure of the giver.

    Microsoft wants to get you in the habit of asking. Online. Preferably logged in. Definitely viewing ads. Grateful for free stuff. Willing to spend a quid or two for new 'cutting edge' features. Looking around, considering 'buying' some more in its virtual mall.

    I've heard it said that 1.5 Billion people use Windows. Even if 0.1% of these spend 30 seconds per year downloading paint (versus using a copy on disk), that's 6 man years lost. Maybe someone would waste their 30 seconds. Maybe others would spend it on a medical problem and save lives.

    I don't get it - an OS is supposed to be at the beck and call of its owner. Microsoft should be making agents to obey our every intent. Even anticipate our needs and pre-empt the resources to fulfill them with no delay. This behavior forces me to conclude the OS is at Microsoft's beck and call now; that we're merely micro-serfs.

    1. Re:Free. At what cost? by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      I don't get it - an OS is supposed to be at the beck and call of its owner....the OS is at Microsoft's beck and call now; that we're merely micro-serfs.

      Sounds like you have it figured out perfectly. There was just a moment of confusion regarding who the owner was.

    2. Re:Free. At what cost? by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 1

      Maybe others would spend it on a medical problem and save lives.

      Or give the impression that lives are being saved! MSPaint is excellent for cropping out tumors from chest x-rays!

      --
      I tend to rant.
    3. Re:Free. At what cost? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I've heard it said that 1.5 Billion people use Windows. Even if 0.1% of these spend 30 seconds per year downloading paint (versus using a copy on disk), that's 6 man years lost.

      I've heard that 1.5billion people use windows. If only 0.1% of the users need it then it collectively wastes: 10126TB of storage space.

    4. Re:Free. At what cost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Free stuff is given at the pleasure of the giver.

      Windows isn't free nor is Paint.

      Microsoft wants to get you in the habit of asking. Online. Preferably logged in. Definitely viewing ads. Grateful for free stuff. Willing to spend a quid or two for new 'cutting edge' features. Looking around, considering 'buying' some more in its virtual mall.

      Yes, we've known this for a while. That's why there's a Windows Store. They're aping app stores. Honestly, I don't have much of a problem with this. I do have a problem with the whole "Microsoft Account Login" requiring you to be online or to use a password--which I recall having great difficulty with. It's also difficult, though not impossible, to switch away from using a Microsoft Account. I wonder if the same can be said for Android and Google's App Store?

      I've heard it said that 1.5 Billion people use Windows. Even if 0.1% of these spend 30 seconds per year downloading paint (versus using a copy on disk), that's 6 man years lost. Maybe someone would waste their 30 seconds. Maybe others would spend it on a medical problem and save lives.

      Considering that almost every person every days spends more than 30 seconds waiting on their computer for something (startup, shutdown, loading programs, etc), your whole calculation is incredibly pointless.

      I don't get it - an OS is supposed to be at the beck and call of its owner. Microsoft should be making agents to obey our every intent. Even anticipate our needs and pre-empt the resources to fulfill them with no delay.

      Computers suck at anticipating needs. The best they tend to do is cache things for reuse. Everything else--when to swap, what to swap, when to start dumping memory, what in memory to dump, etc--they fail pretty miserably at because some software--JRE--are horrible written to preemptively seek to meet the needs of the user. I'm not saying Microsoft shouldn't try, but even if we have NVM as the norm there's still going to be delays.

      This behavior forces me to conclude the OS is at Microsoft's beck and call now; that we're merely micro-serfs.

      This just in: Microsoft puts as much resources into its software as it thinks will maximize a return on its investment. They aim for "good enough" because "good enough" obviously sells. It's why we have Paint in the first place. Well, for most people, Paint in the Windows Store is also "good enough". Btw, this just as well applies to Apple and Linux, with the former charging a large premium and the latter having resources mainly in the form of developer effort and their own ideals of what a return is--which often has little to do with end users.

      Seriously, I understand decrying the way in which Windows is turning into the same sort of philosophy of a mobile OS, but apparently a lot of people are willing to put up with it. And Microsoft will follow the money like any other corporation would. Whether it'll end up panning out for them in the long term, I have no idea. Short-term, though, all their efforts to make an actual mobile device are just failures.

  22. Called it yesterday by Verdatum · · Score: 1
    https://slashdot.org/comments....

    Unfortunately, They still don't seem to understand that it should be on desktops by default. I shouldn't need to go to the garbage Windows Store to have a rudimentary image editor on a machine fresh out of the box.

  23. Appx Paint Is Not Paint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An appx version of Paint in the store is not ANYTHING like paint. This is another case of Microsoft doing what it wants and shoveling horseshit into the mouths of its users.

    Appx apps operate in a different context and critical aspects of Paint like OLE functionality will not exist, rendering the "worthless" Paint application into a completely useless and abandoned Paint app.

    But, the important aspect here is that Microsoft knows well that people still use Paint.exe extensively. Microsoft themselves have stated that 100 million people use Paint.exe daily! But, they can't force-feed ads into Paint.exe. They can however, monetize-the-ever-loving-shit out of Paint.appx and who gives a fuck if it becomes useless to you so long as they get paid again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again...

    It is positively astonishing to me that people either are OK with the new subscription and ad based everything from Microsoft, or are too stupid to see where this is obviously going. Microsoft is stripping out ALL of the perpetual stuff and all control that end users or admins might have over the OS and are placing all control and revenue streams firmly within Microsoft's and ONLY Microsoft's possession.

  24. Ouf by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 3, Funny

    I can finally rest easy. Yesterday was a very hard day for me. Was having a hard time letting it sink in.

    --
    I tend to rant.
  25. IDGAS by Sperbels · · Score: 1

    After a single day's "outpouring" of support the resurrect paint but after a decade of outpouring hate for the direction Windows is going, it just keeps getting worse.

  26. Dear MS by DarkRookie · · Score: 1

    We wanted paint to stay where it is. Not added to your shitty store. Might as well have not announced anything.

    --
    The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
  27. Consolation Prize by Translation+Error · · Score: 1

    Oh, nice, we get to keep Paint. This totally makes up for not keeping Windows Easy Transfer.

    --
    When someone says, "Any fool can see ..." they're usually exactly right.
  28. Riiiight.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are these the same assclowns that converted Mahjong into an app that REQUIRES logging into an X-box live account to even play?

  29. If only Mozilla listened to its users as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We wouldn't have Firefox 57 and the XULpocolypse if it did.

  30. Re: YOU miss the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As others have noted, the issue is ubiquity. Paint is in every Windows box. Most of us never use it, but when you need it you really do - often because you need to do something quick & simple - but Your Organization does not consider your job description to include graphics so there's nothing else installed and never will be (at any price). Losing Paint (moving it to the Store, with or without nagware additions, is the same thing) will not change Your Organization's approach; it will just mean that you will need to create a ticket for some graphic artist to do whatever minor thing you needed, which will result in it not being done (no budget, priorities, etc.).

    MSPAINT.EXE is 6508KB in my Win10 Home laptop; what does MS need that space for that can't be included now? Are they trying to improve their spyware components and have run out of space, even after compression, on the distribution DVD?

  31. IrfanView by CrashNBrn · · Score: 1

    IrfanView with text-insert and a "paint dialog" is by far the easier tool to do quick image manipulations in or paste from the clipboard.

  32. but,, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    will they ever admit to not being able to drop support the vb6 runtime?

  33. Paint? Irfanview FTW by gosand · · Score: 1

    I don't remember the last time I ever opened paint. Any windows machine in my house or that I use gets Irfanview installed as the default image program. The only thing it is really lacking is an easier way to draw on photos... it has one, but i don't like it much.

    Between Irfanview and Snagit, all my basic image and capturing needs are covered. If Irfanview had Snagit's photo markup capabilities it would be perfect.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  34. What, they had to make way for Candy Crush 2? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some spectacularly clueless ideas coming out of big tech vendors nowadays. When it's Google, well, you figure, it *is* Google, after all. But Microsoft? King of backward compatibility and eternal availability of badly designed, insecure and abysmally performing protocols like SMB? Really? Sure systemd ruined Linux, and the Gnome Shell is now indisputably an illustration of man's inhumanity to man, but dropping Paint from Windows? Whose idea was that? Are they among the "too feeble to fail" or one of the "masters of an alternate reality universe" where business owners really want Xbox games to be marketed to their employees' Windows Professional desktops during office hours.

  35. Re:They still don't get it - mod parent up please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone who has logged into Windows Store on Windows 10 has had their Windows login screwed up.

  36. Paint.NET should be included instead of MS Paint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have Photoshop installed, but when all I need to do something simple like crop an image or draw an arrow, Paint.NET is a superior middle-ground editor. Photoshop takes twice as long to start up and MS Paint is useless. Microsoft should drop Paint and include Paint.NET in the main distribution of Windows instead. It's not Photoshop, but it gets the job done. Plus, maybe Microsoft will *finally* find some incentive to optimize the loading times for .NET apps like Paint.NET and maybe some image editing tools might finally hit Outlook.

  37. WINE Install? by hduff · · Score: 1

    I'm using the current Codeweavers Crossover 16.2.0 to attempt an installation of Paint.NET just too look at the app.
    Using a 64-bit Linux OS and installing in a Windows7 64-bit environment (what Paint.NET recommends) and WINE recognizes the need to install .NET Framework 4.6 and accomplishes that, but the application fails to install. The app uses the NullSoft Installer, but I'm not aware of any Linux utility that will unpack a NullSoft archive so I could manually install it in the appropriate WINE bottle.

    Same result with a 32-bit bottle. I don't own any Windows OS.

    --
    "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
    1. Re:WINE Install? by hduff · · Score: 1

      There is a way to unpack the installer (but it's also possible to encrypt the installer contents, so YMMV).
        From their WIKI: "7-zip Since version 9.34 [Jun 2014] it'll extract *beside the files of the setup* the compiled script code to a file named [NSIS].nsi"

      Extraction worked for me. Now to create a bottle and see if it runs . . .

      --
      "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
  38. Englebart and Aktinson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank you Doug Englebart for bit map display, and Bill Atkinson for MacPaint, real precursor of WindogPaint.
    For linux, free and open software, try http://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/gpaint/ , bugfix at htthttps://www.gnu.org/software/gsrc/

  39. Have you tried the Snipping Tool instead? by CaptQuark · · Score: 1

    Have you ever tried the full screen capture in SnippingTool? Select Full-Screen Snip, then paste it or save it. Better yet, why capture the whole screen if you are only interested in a small area of the display?

    Even easier, assign a Hot Key to the Snipping Tool. Just right-click on the Snipping Tool, go to Properties, then click in the Shortcut Key field. Assign a Hot Key sequence (I used F10) to quickly start the Snipping tool.

    Once you have a screen capture you can make rudimentary annotations, paste it into email, or save the whole capture as a file.

    I also use the Snipping Tool as a reminder. I can capture a small section of the screen that shows a URL, or a spreadsheet cell, or a address/phone number and leave it minimized until I need that information later. Kind of like a single item post-it note.

    I find the Snipping Tool does many of the things people used to use Paint for.

    ---

  40. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  41. Give me a break by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I use it for screen shots. I am an old bugger who needs an easy solution. Leave it be.