Microsoft Confirms It's Not Killing Off Paint After Outpouring of Support (cnbc.com)

Microsoft said late Monday that it will not be killing off its Paint app in the next update of Windows 10. It will be made available via the Windows Store for free and will not be completely removed. CNBC reports: The U.S. technology company recently released a list which labeled Paint "deprecated," meaning it was considering removing the app when the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update gets released later this year. Fans on social media decried the potential death of Paint, which has been in existence for 32 years. But Microsoft released a blog post shortly after to clarify that Paint would not be completely removed, but instead made available via the Windows Store for free. "Today, we've seen an incredible outpouring of support and nostalgia around MS Paint. If there's anything we learned, it's that after 32 years, MS Paint has a lot of fans. It's been amazing to see so much love for our trusty old app," Megan Saunders, a general manager at Microsoft, wrote in a blog post on Monday. "Amidst today's commentary around MS Paint we wanted to take this opportunity to set the record straight, clear up some confusion and share some good news: MS Paint is here to stay, it will just have a new home soon, in the Windows Store where it will be available for free."

Comments

Who isn't using paint.net?

[drinkypoo]

On a netbook paint is a handy place to paste a screenshot but on a machine with any kind of capabilities it's kind of the most frustrating tool available.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[Anonymous Coward]

for those that aren't ofay with tools like paintshop or gimp paint is incredibly valuable for simple changes. I have Paintshop but their have been many times I have closed it in frustration and just opened the file in paint because the tiny change I needed to make was painfully obscured or overcomplicated in PS. sometimes a simple hammer is better than chest full of high tech gadgets.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[Anonymous Coward]

MS Paint has the advantage of opening insanely fast compared with more recent tools, thanks to it being programmed for computers of another era.

If you just want a temporary place where to paste an image from clipboard, Paint is a much better target than Paint.net, whose startup time is slow as molasses.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[JaredOfEuropa]

Paint.net strikes a happy medium there. It's pretty powerful yet easy to use if all you need is to change a couple of pixels. And you get much better support for various file formats. Though I agree it's silly for MS to remove such an incredible useful tool from Windows. Part of its advantage is that it's always there, doesn't have to be installed, so if someone asks how to do something with images, you can always explain how to do that with Paint.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[Anonymous Coward]

MS Paint has the advantage of opening insanely fast compared with more recent tools, thanks to it being programmed for computers of another era.

If you just want a temporary place where to paste an image from clipboard, Paint is a much better target than Paint.net, whose startup time is slow as molasses.

For me The Gimp opens in about two seconds and if I want a rudimentary paint program such as KolourPaint which is really on par with "Paint" it opens in less than one second.

Actually there are plenty of simple paint programes that are every bit as good as Microsoft Paint, not only for Microsoft operating systems but Linux and Mac os's as well.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[xonen]

The real point of paint is not 'painting', but a basic tool to do file conversions, save a screenshot or acquire an image from a scanner, and maybe some basic text annotations or other stuff.
They (MS) underestimate it's usefulness. Moving it to the store is almost the same as abandoning.
99% chance i couldn't care less, now or ever, but for people that work on varying locations or have to administer other people's computers, or (play) helpdesk etc, might be upset. And rightfully.
It's about the same effect as removing notepad would be. Notepad is a horrible application that even in 2017 still cannot handle line breaks correctly, but it does have it's uses and is part of the standard windows toolkit.
Last not least - not everyone is permanently connected to the internet. Imho, windows is throwing in it's own windows with moves like this, and narrowing instead of broadening it's user base.

Re: Who isn't using paint.net?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've no idea whats so much greater about photoshops UI but I find the things I want to do in Gimp easy enough.

It is a viable alternative for anyone who wants free and legal. Why should I pay a monthly fee for an application I use only a few times a year.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[Rockoon]

It seems to me that the support cost of keeping paint mainlined cannot possibly be enough to justify losing the foot in the door that they have, as paint is a commonly used tool. My guess is quite large numbers of people use it for a wide assortment of simple activities. Cropping, rescaling, adding text, blurring sensitive info, and so on.

In a very real way the paint program is dead as there are extremely few people actually using it to paint. But those other uses require a tool and I really dont understand why Microsoft would want to opt out of providing that tool. Seems like a no-brainer.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[TuringTest]

if I want a rudimentary paint program such as KolourPaint which is really on par with "Paint"

That would be nice to try, but apparently they don't host binaries in their website, for windows or otherwise. I'm unable to find a legit official download link after some minutes looking for it, as I don't trust "random download site" as a source.

Re: Who isn't using paint.net?

[F.Ultra]

Does that out of the box on my Ubuntu on spinning rust, so hardly anything spectacular.

Re: Who isn't using paint.net?

[houghi]

I need to use 'save as' instead of just 'save' in Gimp. Not that great of an idea. (Yes, I have linked CTRL-S to Save-As)

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[Anonymous Coward]

there are extremely few people actually using it to paint.

But still not as few as there ought to be...

http://www.deviantart.com/digitalart/paintings/newest/

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[jellomizer]

Usually the people who find it on a sketchy looking web site to download.
Don't get me wrong I love the product. And I wish there was a Native Linux port of it. (Also Notepad++) However when I go to get the product I have to be super careful on what I link, because the site that hosts it is poorly made, and designed to trick people into downloading wrong/bad software too.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would you install a Paint clone in an OS that has Paint?

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[TuringTest]

Because it's being discontinued, so you have to install something anyway?

Besides, KolourPaint is (L)GPL and MS Paint is not.

Re: Who isn't using paint.net?

[jellomizer]

There is a fine line between a good interface and a horrible one.
Normally for people who want to use GIMP to replace Photoshop tasks, its interface is bad. Layers and Layer transformation (for me) is one of the primary functions in Photoshop. GIMP has these same features, but they are stuffed away in menu options often with and potential trademark avoiding funny names.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[jellomizer]

Perhaps it is because I come from a Unix design methodology. But if people are doing limited tasks in Paint. Would it make sense to make tool(s) to do the tasks more efficiently.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just get a copy of the .exe and run that. Are you worried about security updates for fucking Paint?

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[MoarSauce123]

Easy to use....not as easy as crusty old MS Paint. Even for more advanced stuff such as working with layers paint.net leaves a lot to be desired. The work can be done, but it is needlessly convoluted and complicated. I gave it a try and went back to the dino PSP6.

Re: Who isn't using paint.net?

[MoarSauce123]

I guess it comes down to what one is used to, but I find the GIMP UI kinda awkward. There are some conventions in place where users expect items and commands to be located and there is really no good reason to break with such conventions.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[stealth_finger]

On a netbook paint is a handy place to paste a screenshot but on a machine with any kind of capabilities it's kind of the most frustrating tool available.

It's just as easy to put a screenshot into paint on a desktop as it is a netbook or laptop. What are you on about? It's frustrating if you actually want to do anything sure but for screen shots, it's open paint, paste, save. No more or less anything any any platform. Unless you mean doing digital art or whatever on a netbook but why on earth would you want to do that? It'd be like digging with a spoon.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[stealth_finger]

Actually there are plenty of simple paint programes that are every bit as good as Microsoft Paint, not only for Microsoft operating systems but Linux and Mac os's as well.

That's true but paint is on basically every windows pc ever by default. You know it's going to be there, you know where it'll be, you know you can count on it (to an extent). Anything else is a crapshoot.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[stealth_finger]

In a very real way the paint program is dead as there are extremely few people actually using it to paint. But those other uses require a tool and I really dont understand why Microsoft would want to opt out of providing that tool. Seems like a no-brainer.

Not many people use photoshop to take photos or run shops either so the clue isn't always in the name.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[stealth_finger]

Perhaps it is because I come from a Unix design methodology. But if people are doing limited tasks in Paint. Would it make sense to make tool(s) to do the tasks more efficiently.

Probably but take that to it's logical conclusion and you get photoshop. Sometimes it's good to have something simple and limited.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[Wolfrider]

--Analogy: Removing 'paint' from a default Windows install is almost on the same level as $DISTRO removing 'vi' from a *nix default install. Srsly. Bad idea.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[Wolfrider]

--Have you tried portableapps or ninite?

Re: Who isn't using paint.net?

[Anonymous Coward]

Disregard that, I suck cocks.

-Parent AC

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[Rockoon]

Would it make sense to make tool(s) to do the tasks more efficiently.

The amalgam of all those tools looks exactly like a simple paint program.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[skids]

But... unless we use paint, how are we supposed to turn screenshots into really poorly compressed BMPs and fill up our coworkers' exchange inbox quotas?

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[haruchai]

"Paint is a much better target than Paint.net, whose startup time is slow as molasses"
What kind of underpowered machine are you on?
I have a portable version of Paint.NET 4.0 & launching it takes barely 3 seconds for the 1st launch after a reboot and just under 2 for subsequent launches, probably due to its dependency on dotNET 4.x.
MS Paint launches in less than one but the loss of the extra 1-2 seconds for the extra capabilities isn't going ruin my life.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[Tuidjy]

I love Paint.NET, but I do not have it installed at every computer at work. Paint is invaluable to me when I am asking someone at a remote Point of Sale to take a screenshot and e-mail it to me.

Even our own warehouses have computers running WinXP. We send them replacements from corporate, but the manager takes the old PC, and sticks it on a rack near at the back of the warehouse... and claims that 'it saves the company thousands' when I ask for it back. It's a privately owned company, and I am not gong to bother the owner (who is the only one that can can overrule the warehouse managers) because of a box that my department will end up paying to e-waste. And yes, it will save the warehouse staff some time, and I or my people will end up supporting it.

Some of the Mon&Pop stores who buy from us also end up talking to me for tech support that is only remotely connected to their using our catalogue or replenishment sites. And some of them are running 2000 and ME.

So yes, I personally use the lightest of Paint, Paint.NET, or gimp that does what I need, but it is nice to know that all Windows boxes have Paint. And unfortunately, it being available for free on the Windows Store or wherever does little to help. If I have to make them download something, the battle may already be lost.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[omnichad]

it being available for free on the Windows Store or wherever does little to help

Same here. It's the second major troubleshooting tool to be removed from a default Windows install. Telnet.exe was extremely valuable in verifying accessible TCP/IP ports from a workstation. So easy you could talk almost anyone through typing the commands.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[omnichad]

MS Paint launches in less than one but the loss of the extra 1-2 seconds for the extra capabilities isn't going ruin my life.

It breaks flow to wait here. I'm already waiting to hit CTRL+V. Do you remember when a slow computer would make your keyboard buffer fill up momentarily and you would have to stop typing until it catches up? It's like that. It's a short, but incredibly frustrating delay.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[omnichad]

Notepad still handles CRLF just fine. Just because you happen to have a lot of LF-only text files doesn't mean that they should comply with your odd format.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[chihowa]

Wordpad is also standard on all Windows systems and handles all line breaks properly. It also doesn't shit itself as often when you open gigantic files.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[omnichad]

It also opens plain text files as editable rich text. Meaning that just opening and hitting save may not be bit-for-bit the same. And it would probably replace LF with CRLF, though I haven't tried.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[MiniMike]

Paint is invaluable to me when I am asking someone at a remote Point of Sale to take a screenshot and e-mail it to me.

You can paste a screenshot directly into an e-mail using Thunderbird or Gmail, tested on Win7. Might work with other e-mail too.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[thewolfkin]

MS Paint has the advantage of opening insanely fast compared with more recent tools, thanks to it being programmed for computers of another era.

If you just want a temporary place where to paste an image from clipboard, Paint is a much better target than Paint.net, whose startup time is slow as molasses.

For me The Gimp opens in about two seconds and if I want a rudimentary paint program such as KolourPaint which is really on par with "Paint" it opens in less than one second.

Actually there are plenty of simple paint programes that are every bit as good as Microsoft Paint, not only for Microsoft operating systems but Linux and Mac os's as well.

two seconds? what kind of magic man are you? for me about 20 seconds. even before I installed all my brushes and fonts and palettes it was nowhere near 2 seconds to boot up. closer to 10 on a fresh install. don't get me wrong. I love gimp. but it's not nearly as fast to boot up as paint.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[DarkOx]

I would argue that Notepad should be killed off. I am not sure where in the pre-win 3.x world Write first made its appearance externally but Notepad has been obsolete almost ever since. Write was however a bit slow to start on Win 3.x 386-era hardware and did use more memory on often very limited systems. Remember we had 4 - 8MB of memory back than and liked it. Some folks still squeaking by with less. Consequently Notepad was useful for throwing up a README.TXT and similar without taxing the system, or jotting a few quick notes as its name implied.

Today I would suggest Write is better choice, for just about every situation. If nothing else it handles line breaks and larger files properly oh and it can handle RTF files. On modern systems its as quick to launch as Notepad and not exactly a memory hog. Kill Notepad, and make notepad.exe a shortcut/symlink/junction to write.exe so as not beak old scripts.

Re: Who isn't using paint.net?

[Hognoxious]

Unless you're Lennart Poettering or one of his advocates. In that case the conventions are wrong and anyone who disagrees is a luddite who should RTFM.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[MiniMike]

Glad to help.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[drinkypoo]

I love Paint.NET, but I do not have it installed at every computer at work.

Maybe you should roll it into the deployment images, then.

And yes, it will save the warehouse staff some time, and I or my people will end up supporting it.

How did it come to pass that the old solution is superior to the new one? Purchasing failure?

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[drinkypoo]

It's just as easy to put a screenshot into paint on a desktop as it is a netbook or laptop. What are you on about?

Are you sure you know anything about computers? You might not want to deal with the increased startup time of Paint.net vs. paint if you are using a netbook, which has limited resources.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[stealth_finger]

How long do you think paint takes to load? What are you doing that the potential difference of seconds is so crucial that it needs dealing with? You're only talking about opening, pasting and saving. How is the level of frustration with that (which is zero) dependent on the specs of the machine? How did paint.net even come into this? You basically said it's more frustrating to use paint for screenshots on a desktop or laptop than it is on a netbook and I said that's stupid.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[haruchai]

I shudder to think of the bloated shit you use day to day that causes you to think 3 seconds ISN'T slow as molasses. That shit adds up. You don't have to value your time, but I value mine.

I get paid for my time. Regardless, I do value the efficient use of it which is why I hibernate my laptop with all the necessary programs running & only do a full reboot before installing patches. I typically run for 10-14 days between reboots.

Re: Who isn't using paint.net?

[Brockmire]

Bitter much?

Re: Who isn't using paint.net?

[Brockmire]

I don't know if moving it to the store will kill it. It might even be the store's "killer app" that finally gets some of us to give it 2 seconds consideration.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[haruchai]

" Do you remember when a slow computer would make your keyboard buffer fill up momentarily and you would have to stop typing until it catches up?"
I have that problem all the time with Firefox & Chrome & my PC is far from slow.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[Tuidjy]

> > And yes, it will save the warehouse staff some time, and I or my people will end up supporting it.
> How did it come to pass that the old solution is superior to the new one? Purchasing failure?
I think you misread what he said. The old solution is not superior. The warehouse staff is keeping the old box in addition to the new one. The new one seems to go wherever the old one was, and the old one is kept in the back of the warehouse to save time to those who happen to be there.

I can see how the staff of a privately owned company would have that discretion. I'd hate to be in IT in a company where such things are allowed, though.

Re:Who isn't using paint.net?

[Tuidjy]

Ah, Petar's wife here, I should have not used his ID.

They miss the point.

[Anonymous Coward]

Availability isn't the concern. We want it ubiquitous. Meaning that if someone has windows you know they have paint.

Re:They miss the point.

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft prefers that if someone has windows, they also will have Microsoft account and the surfaces to display ads.

Re: They miss the point.

[TuballoyThunder]

Agree. There many environments where one cannot install apps from the Windows Store even if it is free. I use Windows Paint quite regularly for work.

Re:They miss the point.

[asylumx]

Yup, Bingo, and also this is the answer to the question above "Who isn't using paint.net?" -- the answer is it didn't matter until now because you knew mspaint was there.

Re: They miss the point.

[Kjella]

Agree. There many environments where one cannot install apps from the Windows Store even if it is free. I use Windows Paint quite regularly for work.

On the bright side, maybe this will make organizations include something better than MS Paint in the default desktop image. Together with Powerpoint (or Visio if available) I can usually abuse it to do what I want, but for some things something like Paint.NET would be much better. I don't expect Photoshop on every desktop but it's so extremely rudimentary, I think the only things it does well is:

1. Crop screenshots
2. Add filled black boxes to censor sensitive data
3. Add red boxes to point to the error/discrepancy
4. Add simple paint-by-numbers, click here then here

Even drawing an arrow from somewhere to somewhere is crap, I usually just do it crayon-style like a 5yo. And it's always destructive editing, no layers you can flatten when you're happy with it or keep for later adjustments. So it's for simple internal one-offs only, I feel like I'm back in the stone age with hammer and chisel when I use it.

Re:They miss the point.

[squiggleslash]

That's one issue. The other is that the precedent for "Oh, it's available in the store now!" were the solitaire suite games, which were wholly rewritten and changed into adware/nagware shadows of their former selves.

What's the betting that Paint is dead, and the Microsoft app called "Paint" in the store will also be a rewritten ad-infested "cloud-enabled" piece of crap?

Re:They miss the point.

[MangoCats]

Well, now you've got ubiquity via the Microsoft Store, and if your "helpee" doesn't have paint installed, you can spend five minutes educating them about the Microsoft Store... free advertising for Microsoft Store - did you get the part in the article where she said Microsoft Store, I think it's something they're promoting.

And, do you really think a company that pushes lengthy restart updates at you every couple of weeks gives a damn about your time or convenience?

Re:They miss the point.

[nine-times]

Out of curiosity, why?

I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentative, but MS Paint always seemed like such a crappy program. Hearing that there's an outpouring of support for keeping it seems weird.

So let me ask, what's the concern here? Couldn't you just download an alternative? Or does MS Paint do something that other paint programs don't? Is the point that people want some kind of graphic editor pre-installed in Windows? Or if Microsoft open sourced Paint, would that satisfy people? What, exactly, isn't satisfying about their new "Paint 3D"? Or is this just an issue of impractical nostalgia for a crappy old app that's been around for decades?

Personally, I'd be in favor of Microsoft doing more to modernize all of their old built-in apps. Notepad, Wordpad, and Paint could all probably use a rethink/rewrite, and not just new icons and a ribbon toolbar.

I can also say, I'd prefer Microsoft not make these kinds of built-in apps in the new Modern/Metro style. Those UI conventions suck for desktop use.

Re:They miss the point.

[kbg]

Exactly. I can instruct my grandma through the phone to open paint, paste an image and save it. But trying to get her to create a new Microsoft Account for login into Windows Store and then download Paint from there is just to complex to even work at all.

Re: They miss the point.

[norweeg]

are portable apps https://portableapps.com/apps/... not an option??

Re: They miss the point.

[stealth_finger]

>Here are several extremely common tasks Paint is supremely efficient at, therefore it must be abolished.

Screw you if you think I'm going to fuck around with layers just to draw a black box or an arrow on something.

For those tasks you really don't need to but photoshop has a tendency to lock out a jpg when you just open it and unless you know how to unlock it you're going to be banging your head of the screen screaming "why the fuck won't you just work!?!" Same if you manage to select something small without realising it and photoshop refuses to do anything.

For some one who doesn't know what they're doing and just wants to do something seemingly incredibly simple, photoshop is more likely to give you an aneurysm!

Re: They miss the point.

[CastrTroy]

As far as the IT guys are concerned, even if you aren't "installing" the application, simply running any unapproved applications on a machine you are still breaking the rules. There isn't really a difference between install a program using a .MSI file and copying the files onto you hard disk (or even plugging in a USB drive) and running it. You're still breaking IT policy by using non-approved software on a work machine.

Re:They miss the point.

[UnknownSoldier]

Exactly this.

Microsoft has NEVER understood the user experience. i.e. It took the 15 years, 1980 until 1995, to offer support for "Long File Names."

Microsoft, -1 Over-rated User Experience

Re:They miss the point.

[omnichad]

Microsoft prefers that if someone has windows, they also will have Microsoft account and the Surfaces to display ads.

FTFY

Re: They miss the point.

[UnknownSoldier]

What is obvious to you and I, sadly, is NOT obvious to others.

The majority of people ARE stupid -- as every election proves. Why They have no frame of reference to understand and apply the concept(s). They have never had to deal with a stack of transparent slides such as used in those old-skool overhead projectors.

Worse, they don't _care_ to learn.

You can fix ignorant, you can't fix stupid.

MS Paint "works" because it has been made idiot proof.

Re:They miss the point.

[epine]

I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentative, but MS Paint always seemed like such a crappy program.

I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentative, but Grandma always seemed like such a useless person.

Yeah, you're right, but she doesn't take up much space and she's the only person in the house who can consistently walk into a strange kitchen and crank out perfect fettuccine noodles without having to hoist an unfamiliar stand mixer onto a foreign countertop, and then dig through all the cupboards for a noodle attachment, if the cheap IT bastards even have one lying around.

But she's really old and out of date and doesn't even use ribbons!

Well, suit yourself, but I'd rather keep the old bird around, in the handy drawer in the closet under the staircase, where she's been living quietly without making a fuss for the last 35 years.

Re:They miss the point.

[nine-times]

So you're implying that this is all about sentimentality? People feel about MS Paint the way a person might feel about their grandmother?

Re:They miss the point.

[Darinbob]

Yes, you need the account to get anything from the store, even if free.

Re: They miss the point.

[Darinbob]

If someone doesnt know what they're doing, they probably should not have purchased a highly overpriced Photoshop in the first place.

Re:They miss the point.

[Darinbob]

None of their "Metro" apps are worth the time it takes to open them. They're all dysfunctional, especially the ones written by Microsoft. Seriously, the browser based version of Bing is more useful than the Bing app, what does that say when Microsoft can't even be bothered to write a decent app for one of their top strategic plans to overtake Google?

Re:They miss the point.

[Darinbob]

Well, when Windows 8.0 was first out, I would have agreed. Microsoft was intentionally trying to kill the desktop version of Windows. They were turning a thousand dollar PC into a smartphone wannabe, because they were trying to get their own smartphone to take off. But fast forward and even Microsoft cannot deny that a Windows phone is never going to succeed, they keep sabotaging that product too. So killing the desktop can't be their plan, unless they're just so much more incompetent that we ever imagined.

Right now their money is from the business market only. The home market is tepid and are moving away from full blown PCs towards phones and tablets, or anything that can have a browser. Out of the business market, the enterprise is the real bread and butter, they're the ones that buy Microsoft products wholesale. The enterprise isn't going to give a damn about a stupid store, they don't even allow their users to install their own products. They want Office, and only Office. And yet the enterprise is starting to move away from Windows and Office in many ways; the servers are being replaced with Linux or cloud services, Macs are showing up more often in R&D, and once that door is cracked open there's going to be a lot of IT execs who start realizing they don't need to stay in bed with Microsoft. If Microsoft did have a brain they would see this and start acting a lot nicer to this market segment.

Re:They miss the point.

[vlueboy]

So you're implying that this is all about sentimentality? People feel about MS Paint the way a person might feel about their grandmother?

Tech people suck at empathy --your post is an example against letting us tech people make important decisions. In other sciences, there isn't a marked absence of checks and balances, certification, regulations / fines / jailtime, design oversight bodies... and the world is a bit more stable because of that. Let's imagine how doctors in similar decisions would be allowed to act in the absence of the Hippocratic oath, when all their Slashdot versions say seemingly translates to "not my problem," "that's an easy DIY task/patient, heal yourself" and "just get a new one"

Of course, power users don't care that for every one of us that can google an alternative, there are dozens of regular Joes that will each contribute to wastes of time as we try to level the playing field.

Is it so hard to see that this is less about sentimentality and more about familiarity and NETWORK effects? Ignoring sentimental reasons here, when grandma dies, you'd need a "hire" a new noodles person or find / keep using a subpar one. When grandma is killed off on purpose because, well, feeding her must be HUGELY affecting MS's bottom line, more evidence comes out that nothing is off-limits.

Going back to network effects here, imagine if the internet decided to shut down mail apps and POP3 / IMAP overnight. All the knowledgeable suckers switching to outlook Webmail would have to jump through some hoops, but the damage comes from knowing that email will never be the same again --you'll have to ask each person you reach if they do see the program (which for some /.-impaired is a difficult enough waste of 10 minutes) and force them through setting up the webmail account (or signing up to the MS store in this case) when all I want is a quick way for them to send my helpdesk a screenshot with some cropping and markings that can't be conveyed well over a phonecall.

Imaging that Facebook decides to disable N % of their accounts because they're unprofitable (below x percent of logged hours per year), under the guides of being presumed inactive or dead: just like with the webmail example above --killing an existing assumption be disabling random nodes in your "network" leads to confusing talks about why something isn't where expected and how to fix it.

Re: They miss the point.

[n329619]

On the bright side, maybe this will make organizations include something better than MS Paint

Meaning they will include nothing at all. You might include something, but there are plenty of organization don't give any shit about it until they themselves personally use it. The employees will only be left to suffer.

Re: They miss the point.

[n329619]

It's not about option. It's about default and expected behavior. Paint is (was) a default program on windows. So you know it is available on any windows machine. Helpful when you need to quick print screen to highlight something, or draw down something basic without installing, downloading or anything that requires online on someone else machine.

If it is your own machine, you surely can get the portable software. But someone else machine? You might need either machine or owner permission. If you have neither, Paint is default available for you to use without you getting any additional permission. This is why it's not about option.

Re:They miss the point.

[fisted]

Microsoft prefers that if someone has Windows, they also will have Microsoft account and the Surfaces to display ads.

FTFY

FTFTFY. If your grammer naziing, at leest do it write.

Re:They miss the point.

[omnichad]

Nazi is a proper noun, even when you're verbing the noun. Maybe.

Re:They miss the point.

[nine-times]

Tech people suck at empathy --your post is an example against letting us tech people make important decisions.

It might show that, or it might show that you're really bad at metaphors. You compared removing MS Paint from the default install to killing a person's grandmother. And now you're saying that the reason it's bad to murder someone's grandmother is because of "network effects", including needing to hire a new person to make noodles...?

I wasn't even dismissing the possibility that MS Paint might be important. I started by asking if someone could clarify why people were upset by losing it.

Of course, power users don't care that for every one of us that can google an alternative, there are dozens of regular Joes that will each contribute to wastes of time as we try to level the playing field.

This sentence *almost* makes sense, but I'm still not sure exactly what you're going for. Regardless, you don't even need to google for an alternative if you don't want to. Windows 10 now included "Paint 3D", which can also be used for the things that "Paint" has been used for. If those regular Joes are so clueless that they don't know how to use Google, they probably won't even know the difference.

At least, I might guess that. I'm not sure, because no one has really answered my question as to why people are so upset. It may be that people are upset at the loss of some functionality of MS Paint that I'm unaware of, or unaware that people are making use of it.

Going back to network effects here, imagine if the internet decided to shut down mail apps and POP3 / IMAP overnight.

Unless you don't have any idea what you're talking about, you know that's very different from Microsoft no longer including Paint in the default Windows install. So not only are you bad at metaphors, but also bad at hypothetical examples.

Re: They miss the point.

[norweeg]

That's the point of portable apps, though. You don't need admin rights, you don't need to install them. They are bundled such that they can be run from any directory, usually a flash drive, without installation.

That's no app

[I'm New Around Here]

It's not an app, it's a program. Apps suck. MS-Paint lives forever.

Re:That's no app

[Anonymous Coward]

This. I refuse to call proper desktop applications/programs - even small ones - "apps". An app is what you get when you port a 1990's flash game to iOS and add microtransactions.

Re:That's no app

[I'm New Around Here]

Exactly. Thanks for the full explanation. Apps on a desktop or laptop are those crappy things Microsoft added on Windows 8 and 10, like the Photos app, that take the full screen, can't be minimized, have no menu, and are all designed for touch use.

MSpaint is a program that is often used for screen grabs and touchups. It doesn't have a thousand features, but it also loads almost instantly (just opened it to verify speed). It is a useful tool, and apparently is one I will keep on a thumbdrive to add to future computers as needed.

Re:That's no app

[Zontar The Mindless]

I refuse to call proper desktop applications/programs - even small ones - "apps".

Oh, really? That's funny, I (and most of my peers) have been calling them "apps" for about 20 years now, since well before smartphones were even a thing.

(Lucky for you, I don't have a lawn to tell you get off of.)

Re:That's no app

[TheRaven64]

Even though app seems like it's short for application it is rather short for "Mobile Application".

Bullshit. People have been shortening application to app for decades. NeXTSTEP, OPENSTEP, and Mac OS X all used .app as the file extension for applications, used NSApp as the global variable that holds a pointer to the current application object, and used App in their marketing terminology since the '80s. iOS apps were called apps because that's the same term that Apple has used on the desktop since it was a company called NeXT, trying to redefine the term to only mean mobile apps is nonsense.

Re:That's no app

[I'm New Around Here]

Oh, really? That's funny, I (and most of my peers) have never called them "apps" for about 40 years now, and still don't. Apps are on smartphones and cheap tablets.

Get off my damn lawn.

Re:That's no app

[Anonymous Coward]

two reasons why they're doing this... neither one has anything to do with ms paint and how excruciatingly difficult it must be for microsoft to keep such a mundane application up-to-date with the new chrome-like rapid release schedule of windows versions.

"apps" in the store have more built-in telemetry and user tracking than even windows 10 itself does.

ads. how much you want to wager that the "new" paint app will have in-app ads like the solitaire collection does that replaced the previously-included windows games? and that just like those games, they'll remove the ads for a subscription fee?

Re:That's no app

[DickBreath]

> apps are for fones.

That's Foans. Like groans. Moans. Loans. Koans.

Example in a sentence: You can barraw mah sail foan.

Re:That's no app

[fustakrakich]

Progs?

Re:That's no app

[Bob the Super Hamste]

An app is what you get when you port a 1990's flash game to iOS and add microtransactions.

Now I want to play defend your castle on my phone although it might be too easy with a touch interface.

Re:That's no app

[painandgreed]

Progs?

Already in use for a 'block of programming' in video, radio, or serialized printed media. Although it is probably more of a British term and American.

Re: That's no app

[KGIII]

I've been shortening application(s) to app(s) for decades. I'm pretty sure I didn't invent it. I'm also sure it predates smartphones. I'm pretty sure it predates the smartphone by at least a decade, maybe two.

However, you can hang out on my lawn, I don't mind.

Re:That's no app

[Darinbob]

Apps are those dumbed down things on smartphones. Bundle some pictures and URLs inside some XML, with zero code, and you've got an "app". Whereas Microsoft Paint was an "application"; people wrote code for it, it runs on the machine locally and not in the cloud.

Re:That's no app

[Darinbob]

Everyone in that campaign and the primaries was better than Clinton or Trump, it's not like it was a high bar to overcome.

They still don't get it

[istartedi]

People who prefer the Windows ecosystem that traces its roots to DOS don't want to interact with a "store" to get things done. Paint has been part of the default install longer than "app stores" have even been a thing. It's like vi on Linux.

Re:They still don't get it

[Barny]

To use the Windows Store at all (even for free things), you need to log in with your Microsoft account. Once that is done, you have now matched your install of windows directly to YOU. Congrats, now you get ads and you get a screwed up log in system.

Basically, they are fishing for ways to encourage people to sync up with their store for ads and more, paint is just the latest bait to do this.

Re:They still don't get it

[iampiti]

100% Agree. This is another of their tactics to get people used to the Windows Store. Didn't they do the same thing with Solitaire?
They're hellbent on removing the classic programs from Windows. Soon only the touch-optimized versions will remain. It is as if they wanted to make Windows hip by presenting it as a touch-first OS. "Look, we're just like Android and iOS, please use Windows instead a tablet with them".
I don't care if they add a touch optimized UI for Windows but please leave the mouse-optimized version (the OS itself, and the programs) alone.

Re:They still don't get it

[iampiti]

They want everyone to forget that there was a world where you didn't need a Microsoft login and an app store to do things on Windows.
If you don't use those how are they going to gather data on you and earn money through their cut on the apps?.
I don't like iPhones but I don't mind their existance. They only thing I hold against them is that made acceptable the walled garden model to the masses. Now Microsoft is trying the same thing with Windows. Disgusting.

Re:They still don't get it

[Subm]

> It's like vi on Linux

I also use vi for quick image editing on GNU/Linux.

Re: They still don't get it

[LordWabbit2]

Don't be so sure, the mainframe made a come back in the form of the "cloud".

Re:They still don't get it

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't like iPhones but I don't mind their existance. They only thing I hold against them is that made acceptable the walled garden model to the masses.

That's like saying the only thing you didn't like about the Trojan Horse was all those Greeks.

Re:They still don't get it

[DickBreath]

> People who prefer the Windows ecosystem that traces its roots to DOS
> don't want to interact with a "store" to get things done.

I don't want to be accused of preferring that ecosystem.

But if Microsoft is bringing back Paint, can they please Please PLEASE bring back edlin!

And a text based clippy for DOS wouldn't be bad either.

Re:They still don't get it

[jellomizer]

The Apple and Microsoft store is pure evil. That is why I use Ubuntu and install everything via apt.

Re:They still don't get it

[jlowery]

You only use vi because Microsoft yanked edlin years ago. Try finding that in the Store, sucker.

Re:They still don't get it

[PhrostyMcByte]

To use the Windows Store at all (even for free things), you need to log in with your Microsoft account. Once that is done, you have now matched your install of windows directly to YOU. Congrats, now you get ads and you get a screwed up log in system.

This is not true. If you don't login to Windows with a Microsoft account, you can login directly on a per-app basis (including the Store app) without messing with anything else on the system.

Re:They still don't get it

[Wolfrider]

+1 Insightful, +1 Funny
 
// jstar / nano / mcedit user

Re:They still don't get it

[thegarbz]

It's like vi on Linux.

Funny that. It seems like the first thing I need to do now when I fire up a new linux install is run apt-get install vi.

Re:They still don't get it

[thegarbz]

To use the Windows Store at all (even for free things), you need to log in with your Microsoft account.

No you don't. You only need a Microsoft account to pay for a paid app. You can happily log into windows store without a Microsoft account.

Re:They still don't get it

[thegarbz]

They want everyone to forget that there was a world where you didn't need a Microsoft login and an app store to do things on Windows.

Do they now? Is that why they just added the option of downloading things from the app store without any Microsoft account?

How ... devious?... of them?

Re:They still don't get it

[omnichad]

It is as if they wanted to make Windows hip by presenting it as a touch-first OS

Still better than Windows 8 that was designed more as a touch-only OS.

Re:They still don't get it

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, I actually had to learn how to use edlin just a month or two ago.

(Had NEC's version of DOS 5 in a virtual machine. Couldn't find its edit.exe. Found edlin. Used it to do some edits to autoexec.bat. Later on, learned that the editor was called sedit.exe)

Re:They still don't get it

[terjeber]

that traces its roots to DOS

A digression, I know, but: This is actually not the case. Windows traces its root to VAX/VMS to a greater degree than it traces its roots to DOS. Windows 95/98/Me and Windows NT come from two very different places.

Re:They still don't get it

[istartedi]

From the PoV of many (most?) users, it's rooted in DOS. Users living through the era saw 3.x as a program you launched under DOS. Then, the DOS prompt and the ability to launch DOS-based games was retained for a really long time. Even in versions of Windows based on NT, familiar artifacts of the DOS world, such as .BAT files, still work. Modern windows is like a Fordillac--a Ford hot-rod with a Cadillac engine. Is the car rooted in Ford or GM? I guess there's an argument both ways.

it did not from the very beginning

[mapkinase]

The plan was to stop supporting and _eventually_ drop it.

This is in line with the alarming industry trend of dropping something very stable and unchangeable (ergo, does not bring any money) in favor of something experimental and unstable that you will be able to sell to clueless buyers.

Similar to impossibility of having practically eternal products, stable software products of private industry are impossible as well.

Have you been to the grocery chains recently? Remember the hype of LED lamps? It was hard to find a good incadescent in my grocery store at one point, majority of the shelf space was covered by LEDs. Now the situation is back to the beginning: majority are incadescents, LEDs are in minority.

Welcome to the late stage capitalism

Re:it did not from the very beginning

[dj245]

The plan was to stop supporting and _eventually_ drop it.

This is in line with the alarming industry trend of dropping something very stable and unchangeable (ergo, does not bring any money) in favor of something experimental and unstable that you will be able to sell to clueless buyers.

Similar to impossibility of having practically eternal products, stable software products of private industry are impossible as well.

Have you been to the grocery chains recently? Remember the hype of LED lamps? It was hard to find a good incadescent in my grocery store at one point, majority of the shelf space was covered by LEDs. Now the situation is back to the beginning: majority are incadescents, LEDs are in minority.

Welcome to the late stage capitalism

Who buys light bulbs at the grocery store? They are generally marked up between 150-300% of the cost at a big-box retailer.

I would guess at those prices, turnover is low. I have seen lots of home goods at the grocery store that are laughably out of date. Especially electronics. Your grocery store might have decided that stocking incandescents is better than stocking LEDs since LEDs are still getting cheaper (depreciating) while incandescents are more stable in price.

Re:it did not from the very beginning

[mapkinase]

>Who buys light bulbs at the grocery store? They are generally marked up between 150-300% of the cost at a big-box retailer.

Laziness. I said it. I admitted it.

Instead...

[volodymyrbiryuk]

Microsoft announced it will kill Windows an all attached sofware all together. They added that this step is immediate and irrevocable but necessary to spare PC users over the world further suffering.

Paint today. QBasic tomorrow!!!

[Salgak1]

Nostalgic me misses the old QBasic that came with DOS and early Win9x (I seem to recall that it went away after Win98). I taught my daughters their initial lessons in programming in QBasic. . .

Re:Paint today. QBasic tomorrow!!!

[jason777]

Lol, in high school all I had was qbasic. I got a book "Qbasic games and more" that provided a TSR that allowed you to use the mouse in Qbasic. On topic, I wrote a Paint-like program in qbasic where you could draw shapes (rectangle, ellipse, etc) and it also did 3d boxes! My program would save to image binary format, OR generate qbasic statements to redraw the graphics. I used it to do my final project in programming class where we had to use graphics statements to make a picture. Of course, my picture was a very detailed christmas scene, complete with an animated train around a christmas tree, and background music!

Re:Paint today. QBasic tomorrow!!!

[Wolfrider]

--You can still download Qbasic and use it in Win7 32-bit. Not sure of any Win versions after that, tho.

Re:Paint today. QBasic tomorrow!!!

[CaseCrash]

Oh, man. QBasic was my first language. Seven years old typing programs out of a magazine. I loved it. I'm gonna go see if I can run it on DOSBOX.

Great!

[fustakrakich]

Now, can we get the pinball game back also?

Re:Great!

[norweeg]

that was never part of a base install, it was in an add-on bundle that a lot of people had. I miss that, chip's challenge, and ski free. Technically you can download ski free from it's creator for free. He somehow retained the rights to it

Re:Microsft need to free base the paint

[DickBreath]

Instead of freebasing paint, can Microsoft take paint by intravenous injection?

Re:Maybe... JUST MAYBE..

[DickBreath]

What are you saying, that if we complain loud enough we can get Microsoft to go back to Windows 95 ?

Free. At what cost?

[sonamchauhan]

Free stuff is given at the pleasure of the giver.

Microsoft wants to get you in the habit of asking. Online. Preferably logged in. Definitely viewing ads. Grateful for free stuff. Willing to spend a quid or two for new 'cutting edge' features. Looking around, considering 'buying' some more in its virtual mall.

I've heard it said that 1.5 Billion people use Windows. Even if 0.1% of these spend 30 seconds per year downloading paint (versus using a copy on disk), that's 6 man years lost. Maybe someone would waste their 30 seconds. Maybe others would spend it on a medical problem and save lives.

I don't get it - an OS is supposed to be at the beck and call of its owner. Microsoft should be making agents to obey our every intent. Even anticipate our needs and pre-empt the resources to fulfill them with no delay. This behavior forces me to conclude the OS is at Microsoft's beck and call now; that we're merely micro-serfs.

Re:Free. At what cost?

[Voyager529]

I don't get it - an OS is supposed to be at the beck and call of its owner....the OS is at Microsoft's beck and call now; that we're merely micro-serfs.

Sounds like you have it figured out perfectly. There was just a moment of confusion regarding who the owner was.

Re:Free. At what cost?

[SCVonSteroids]

Maybe others would spend it on a medical problem and save lives.

Or give the impression that lives are being saved! MSPaint is excellent for cropping out tumors from chest x-rays!

Re:Free. At what cost?

[thegarbz]

I've heard it said that 1.5 Billion people use Windows. Even if 0.1% of these spend 30 seconds per year downloading paint (versus using a copy on disk), that's 6 man years lost.

I've heard that 1.5billion people use windows. If only 0.1% of the users need it then it collectively wastes: 10126TB of storage space.

Called it yesterday

[Verdatum]

https://slashdot.org/comments....

Unfortunately, They still don't seem to understand that it should be on desktops by default. I shouldn't need to go to the garbage Windows Store to have a rudimentary image editor on a machine fresh out of the box.

Ouf

[SCVonSteroids]

I can finally rest easy. Yesterday was a very hard day for me. Was having a hard time letting it sink in.

IDGAS

[Sperbels]

After a single day's "outpouring" of support the resurrect paint but after a decade of outpouring hate for the direction Windows is going, it just keeps getting worse.

Dear MS

[DarkRookie]

We wanted paint to stay where it is. Not added to your shitty store. Might as well have not announced anything.

Consolation Prize

[Translation Error]

Oh, nice, we get to keep Paint. This totally makes up for not keeping Windows Easy Transfer.

IrfanView

[CrashNBrn]

IrfanView with text-insert and a "paint dialog" is by far the easier tool to do quick image manipulations in or paste from the clipboard.

Paint? Irfanview FTW

[gosand]

I don't remember the last time I ever opened paint. Any windows machine in my house or that I use gets Irfanview installed as the default image program. The only thing it is really lacking is an easier way to draw on photos... it has one, but i don't like it much.

Between Irfanview and Snagit, all my basic image and capturing needs are covered. If Irfanview had Snagit's photo markup capabilities it would be perfect.

Re:The incandecent bulbs are back, but the ratings

[omnichad]

60 will always mean 840 lumens to me. They still list how many lumens, which is much more important than the wattage.

WINE Install?

[hduff]

I'm using the current Codeweavers Crossover 16.2.0 to attempt an installation of Paint.NET just too look at the app.
Using a 64-bit Linux OS and installing in a Windows7 64-bit environment (what Paint.NET recommends) and WINE recognizes the need to install .NET Framework 4.6 and accomplishes that, but the application fails to install. The app uses the NullSoft Installer, but I'm not aware of any Linux utility that will unpack a NullSoft archive so I could manually install it in the appropriate WINE bottle.

Same result with a 32-bit bottle. I don't own any Windows OS.

Re:WINE Install?

[hduff]

There is a way to unpack the installer (but it's also possible to encrypt the installer contents, so YMMV).
  From their WIKI: "7-zip Since version 9.34 [Jun 2014] it'll extract *beside the files of the setup* the compiled script code to a file named [NSIS].nsi"

Extraction worked for me. Now to create a bottle and see if it runs . . .

Have you tried the Snipping Tool instead?

[CaptQuark]

Have you ever tried the full screen capture in SnippingTool? Select Full-Screen Snip, then paste it or save it. Better yet, why capture the whole screen if you are only interested in a small area of the display?

Even easier, assign a Hot Key to the Snipping Tool. Just right-click on the Snipping Tool, go to Properties, then click in the Shortcut Key field. Assign a Hot Key sequence (I used F10) to quickly start the Snipping tool.

Once you have a screen capture you can make rudimentary annotations, paste it into email, or save the whole capture as a file.

I also use the Snipping Tool as a reminder. I can capture a small section of the screen that shows a URL, or a spreadsheet cell, or a address/phone number and leave it minimized until I need that information later. Kind of like a single item post-it note.

I find the Snipping Tool does many of the things people used to use Paint for.

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