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China Forces Muslim Minority To Install Spyware On Their Phones (bleepingcomputer.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bleeping Computer: Chinese authorities in the province of Xinjiang are forcing locals of the Uyghur Muslim minority to install an app on their phones that will allow the government to scan their device for "terrorist propaganda," local media reports. In reality, the app creates MD5 hashes for the user's files and matches them against a database of known terrorist content. The app also makes copies of the user's Weibo and WeChat databases and uploads it to a government server, along with the user's IMEI, IMSI, and WiFi login information. The app is called Jingwang (Citizen Safety) and was developed by police forces from Urumqi, Xinjiang's capital. Authorities launched the app in April, and also included the ability to report suspicious activity to the police. At the start of July, Xinjiang officials started sending WeChat messages in Uyghur and Chinese to locals, asking them to install the app or face detainment of up to 10 days. Police have also stopped people on the street to check if they installed the app. Several were detained for refusing to install it. Locals are now sharing the locations of checkpoints online, so others can avoid getting arrested.

389 comments

  1. Jihad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Is a duty of all Muslims. It is written in the Qur'an.

    Praise be to Allah.

    1. Re:Jihad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, in this case jihad is certainly justified. I hope resistance is not futile.

    2. Re:Jihad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      But only certain branches (mustly Saudi) Muslims believe that Jihad should be violent. Why do we support Saudi again? Why do we allow Saudi funding of mosques abroad?

    3. Re:Jihad by dszd0g · · Score: 3, Informative

      While apparently a true statement (I'm not Muslim), it is grossly misleading:

      Until I actually googled this, I was ignorant on what jihad actually meant; "striving and working hard for something."

      http://www.islamportal.net/for...

      https://www.quora.com/Is-jihad...

      --
      This message is encrypted with Quad ROT-13 to protect the author's copyright under the DMCA.
    4. Re: Jihad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Why do we support Saudi again?"

      Because they have (had) all the oil. As a result, (now) they have all the money. What they believe is irrelevant, except as a means of control.

      And the same goes for you... what you believe is used to manufacture your consent. Therefore, you say "Why do we support Saudi again?" which is a distraction from the real questions (why oil, who makes those decisions really, how to we stop them doing this...)

    5. Re: Jihad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at the life of Mohamed the founder of Islam.... What did Jihad mean to him? Also have a look at the transformations in the Middle East from this time onwards. Then it's not hard to miss the meaning of Jihad.

    6. Re: Jihad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      And Islam is not a race.

    7. Re:Jihad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A thousand years ago, Christians were busy burning heretics while Arab physicians under the Fatamids were inventing what we now call "surgery".

      There's plenty more, if you care to do a little reading.

    8. Re: Jihad by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Because apologists are the best source of information on any subject. Read the Koran, then come again.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    9. Re:Jihad by e3m4n · · Score: 1

      So Jihad is the arabic word for Kung Fu?

      http://www.kungfutoday.com/fea...

    10. Re:Jihad by e3m4n · · Score: 2

      Everyone has their dark ages.. apparently they're going through theirs with their own book burnings and heretic burnings. But yes, at one time they were the center of technology, astronomy, and science. Its amazing what a little fear of the unknown can do to a mass of people, especially when it's the spiritual leaders succumb to it.

    11. Re: Jihad by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 1

      That's like saying, "read the Old Testament, then come again." The Koran has been interpreted by Islamic scholars for centuries, and these writings are at least as important to understanding Islam.

      The definition of jihad is 'struggle', and in countries that haven't been bombed back to the stone age very few people are willing to interpret it as meaning "I need to blow myself up for God." However, the term jihad is also very easily used to describe the actions and attitudes of the anti-Islamic movement in the US.

      --
      Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
    12. Re:Jihad by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 1

      Ah, replace "fear of the unknown" with "having their empires systematically dismantled by the West" followed by another couple centuries of arbitrary map-redrawing and regime change.

      Its amazing what a little fear of the unknown can do to a mass of people, especially when [the] leaders succumb to it.

      Plus ca change, eh?

      --
      Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
    13. Re:Jihad by Terwin · · Score: 2

      A thousand years ago, Christians were busy burning heretics while Arab physicians under the Fatamids were inventing what we now call "surgery".

      There's plenty more, if you care to do a little reading.

      It took about a thousand years for the followers of a man who admonished one of his followers for striking at one of the people who came to take the leader away to be tortured to death to have officially sanctioned warfare with special rewards in the afterlife guaranteed to those who died for the cause(I believe crusaders were promised a place in heaven if they died for the cause), but after a few hundred years of intermittent fighting, it was given up as not being appropriate, even though it was primarily to 'push back those that took the holy-land.' Currently the only 'county' run by this religion is less than half of a square kilometer of an Italian city, with a police force but no other military of its own.

      Compared to a religious leader who spent a good chunk of his life at war, and has promised rewards for anyone who dies for the cause since the foundation of the religion. Not to mention the immediate successors that carried on the war for a good hundred years after his death, or the centuries of piracy(look up Barbary pirates, it was Muslim pirates that inspired the 'millions for defense but not one penny in tribute' quote) and capturing and selling slaves(I think that Muslim slavers provided a majority of the African slaves to the southern US, but it may just have been a plurality).

      And clearly they have not decided that this is a bad idea because wikipedia lists 25 on-going Jihad bil Saif (Jihad by the sword)
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Sure any group of humans that has been around for 2000+ years will have some bad actors, even some in power, but that does not excuse the consistent bad behavior of other, younger groups(Mohammed lived in the 7th century).

      I would be greatly surprised if it were difficult to name 2 Muslim 'bad behaviors' of similar scope for every Christian 'bad behavior,' even though Christianity is much larger and nearly half-again as old.

    14. Re:Jihad by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2

      Nope.

      1. 1000 years ago Christians were not burning heretics. This "burning" took place almost exclusively during the Spanish Inquisition. Starting in the 1470s and lasting in its most brutal way for 100+ years. Over that period deaths were in the 3-5,000 range.

      2. Surgery was around in Mesopotamia, Ancient Egypt, China, and India. We have numerous examples of skulls that were drilled to in order to relieve internal pressure (and many survived surgery!). The reason surgery did not exist until the late 19th C was a little thing called anesthesia. Germ theory helped to increase survival rates but the key development were ether, nitrous oxide, morphine and tracheal intubation which were a huge step up over opium and alcohol.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    15. Re:Jihad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that assertion is not self-evident.

    16. Re: Jihad by mSparks43 · · Score: 1

      you dont support the saudis any more than you support katrina victims. most people living in Saudi live in abject poverty, even modern day slavery.

      you support the evil mofos that keep it that way.

    17. Re:Jihad by unixisc · · Score: 1

      I'm normally opposed to most government intrusions of privacy, like /. users. I make an exception when the subjects are Muslim, however.

      If the entire world did this to all Muslims, it would be a lot easier to monitor most jihad plots

    18. Re:Jihad by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      I'm not quite sure how "this time it's not so bad" erases the aspect of doing things for random fictional reasons. You can pretty much override any reason with "God commands it".

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    19. Re: Jihad by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Only 80% of Dutch Muslims believe that Jihad is Holy War according to one study. I've Googled the statistics and apologist websites are very careful not to include statistics often saying "a minority" (which cold be anywhere from 0-49%) or relying only on write-in interpretations of Jihad which are then interpreted again by the researchers as to it's meaning and all but the most egregious are classified as extremist.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    20. Re: Jihad by KGIII · · Score: 1

      That isn't very accurate. Look up Galen. He was a Greek who lived in Rome. He was doing surgery, long before Islam was even a thing.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    21. Re:Jihad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course it is. People have a right to fight back against injustice. That's very self evident.

    22. Re: Jihad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize it mean we should destroy all Muslims?

      Selfdefence for either side but different sides.

    23. Re: Jihad by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Source?

    24. Re: Jihad by aliquis · · Score: 1

      They get lots of control in Europe.

      First the build the mosques which work as propaganda centers and terrorist / warrior recruitment centers if they want to.

      And then they offer their help in controlling that ....

    25. Re: Jihad by aliquis · · Score: 1

      You should fill yourself with Muslim thoughts so you'd be wiliing to risk your life for them at any time because you're so convinced.

    26. Re: Jihad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sex with young girls? That's what I got out of reading his story

    27. Re:Jihad by ChoosyBeggar · · Score: 1

      -just as governments have a right to fight back against terrorism, wouldn't you say? Followers of a violent religion should be monitored.

    28. Re:Jihad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well then, I guess the question is where to draw the line dividing government from terrorist.

    29. Re: Jihad by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 1

      Yes, I'm sure you have some rationalizations for your bigotry, but I'm not sure how you confused opinion polls for the scholarly work of centuries of clerics.

      --
      Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
  2. Good by ArchieBunker · · Score: 0, Troll

    Keep an eye on those camel jockeys before they start making China more like Iran. They already fled a shitty country and now complain their new country isn't like the shitty one. Their solution is to make the new one just as shitty.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Erm... you should know that the Uighurs are not foreigners to the land but natives.

      They have been Muslims for centuries and before the formation of the PRC were semi autonomous.

      However they are seen as a threat as they are not part of the Han ethnic group that the current chinese government comes from.

    2. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Well, yes, but to be fair, they're part of a religion that states that Han ethnic group should convert or die, and if they refuse to convert the Islamists are allowed to ignore their laws and have a religious obligation to screw them over.

      Muhammad's teachings. Not even once.

    3. Re:Good by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      However they are seen as a threat as they are not part of the Han ethnic group that the current chinese government comes from.

      The larger problem is that even the Han arent safe. It's not a racism issue, its a rights issue. China is still very much totalitarian.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    4. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um...

      ISIS also has a small presence in the area, and the Chinese government answered by banning the wear of classical Islam attire, such as the burqa.

      If ISIS had a known presence in the USA like this, our government wouldn't be so open about it - they'd just spy - to hell with the Fourth Amendment (It's JUST a piece of goddamn paper!)

      And we're not including the vigilantes that would do god knows what to them (The Second Amendment is cast in stone by the hand of God!)

      Sigmund Freud was asked why he always scowled. To paraphrase, "I'm disgusted with humanity."
      My brother!

    5. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So were the tartan kilt wearing red heads speaking Tocharian who lived there a few thousand years ago. But you don't see many Celts shoving their clothing choices on you, or forcing you to speak their language in prayers.

      I would be careful before you start defending someone just because they appear to be the underdog. That dog does bite.

    6. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If ISIS had a known presence in the USA like this, our government wouldn't be so open about it - they'd just spy - to hell with the Fourth Amendment (It's JUST a piece of goddamn paper!)

      And we're not including the vigilantes that would do god knows what to them

      So, you think ISIS would deserve to be tolerated if it had a presence in the US ?

      Good luck with that, you clueless idiot.

      These ISIS fuckers BEHEAD people.

      The only treatment they deserve is annihilation.

    7. Re:Good by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      The larger problem is that even the Han arent safe. It's not a racism issue, its a rights issue.

      Bullcrap. It is racism, and that is very much the "larger problem". Most of the racism doesn't even come from the government. It comes from the Han immigrants to Xinjiang. But in disputes between the Han and Uyghurs, the government will always side with the Han. If you walk down the street in Urumqi and look at the "Help Wanted" signs in the windows, 90% of them will say "Han Only" . The same is true for rental housing, and even schools. The Uyghurs are economically marginalized, and the government is complicit in keeping them that way.

    8. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      FYI That region was a protectorate of the Han Dynasty (206 BC–220 AD) well before the Uyghur migration into region region after the fall of the Uyghur Khaganate in the year 842. To claim they are "native" ignores the ebbs and flows and history of the various Chinese dynasties.

    9. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The fuck? You just wrote a defense of ISIS, and claimed to be disgusted by humanity?

      You're talking about the Muslims who, just as an example, were condemned for crimes against humanity after they posted a video of themselves cutting out a baby from a pregnant woman, then raping the fetus.

      You are a massive sub-human piece of shit.

    10. Re:Good by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      The only treatment they deserve is annihilation.

      Are you suggesting to nuke them from orbit because it's the only way to be sure?

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    11. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      The larger problem is that even the Han arent safe. It's not a racism issue, its a rights issue.

      Bullcrap. It is racism

      All you SJW idiots whine "RACISM" when you have no real argument to make. Since you believe calling someone "racist" automatically makes you the winner of the argument, you continue to try such a fallacious tactic. But due to your poor grasp of reality, you don't understand that your argument is meaningless to people who have more life experience than you do.

      Religion is not race.

      You ARE an idiot.

    12. Re: Good by Dog-Cow · · Score: 2

      Where did you get that idea from, you ignorant sack of shit?

    13. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All you SJW idiots whine "RACISM" when you have no real argument to make. Since you believe calling someone "racist" automatically makes you the winner of the argument, you continue to try such a fallacious tactic. But due to your poor grasp of reality, you don't understand that your argument is meaningless to people who have more life experience than you do.

      Religion is not race.

      You ARE an idiot.

      I mean, you're the one whining about SJW's when he just came up with some actual examples and showed some knowledge of the issue.

      The irony is about as thick as you are.

    14. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Calm down, son. This is slashdot, not YouTube.

    15. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The larger problem is that even the Han arent safe. It's not a racism issue, its a rights issue. China is still very much totalitarian.

      And clueless Americans don't realize they're on the same path.

      They're already passing laws to make it a criminal act to criticize Israel.

      In that regards, American Christians are little different from Isis -- you can have any religion you want as long as it's ours.

      Communism is just another religion like Capitalism. All zealots will go to great length to enforce their version of the "truth".

    16. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      "If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city." -- Deuteronomy 22:23-24

    17. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, you think ISIS would deserve to be tolerated if it had a presence in the US ?

      We've repeatedly tolerated far worse when it was politically (or economically) expedient.

      Or have you already forgotten the Domino Theory and what the US did in the name of opposing communism over the latter half of the 20th Century?

    18. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Jewish law.

    19. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're already passing laws to make it a criminal act to criticize Israel.

      [Citation needed]

    20. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Islam is not a race.

    21. Re: Good by vux984 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Where does "Jewish Law" end and "Christian Law" begin exactly? It seems the prevalent practice is for Christians to pick and choose whatever parts they like and say the Bible instructs them thus, and any parts they don't like... "that was just for the Jews not us".

      After all, all the 'bible against the gays' stuff is from the same sections that outlaws bacon and endorses stoning rape victims who were too afraid, too confused, or too drunk to cry out...

    22. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's ignorant to the extreme to suggest that this is the only way we have to exterminate our enemies.

      We have many others.

    23. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Islam is not a race.

      Correct it's not racism. But you're still just a bigot.

    24. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What, they've only lived in that region for 1,175 years? Those damn upstart immigrants, taking our jobs!

    25. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      neither is American.

    26. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let me help you out. But before I go any further you are correct, there are many Christians who seem to like to cherry pick what they like out of Jewish texts.

      Christianity is called Christianity because it's adherents follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. You will find those teachings in a set of books called the New Testament.

      Now once again, there are a LOT of Christians who are unable to understand they are to follow Christ's teachings because some of the Jewish texts are so darn "convenient." Take the Ten Commandments as an example of Jewish teachings that are nice to have in your back pocket when you want to look down in judgement on someone else.

      Add to that, the Jewish texts are in many instances bound together with the teachings of Christ. It's easy to get a bit confused.

      Look, Christians are human. Individually they are in varying degrees fallible.

      But, if you strictly look at the teachings of Christ I believe you will find a consistent set of principles that treat people fairly.

      Personally I would like to see Christianity simply dump the Jewish texts. With the teachings of Christ they simply are not needed or particularly relevant.

    27. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The person you replied to was talking about Han and Uyghur. Bother are ethnicities, not religions.

    28. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, it is a disease

    29. Re: Good by murdocj · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So you are saying that the Ten Commandments don't mean anything to Christians.

    30. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Matthew 5:17-20. That is all. Paul's the one who's all gung-ho about dropping the 613 Mitzvot, not Jesus.

    31. Re: Good by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

      Islam is not a race.

      Look, this policy is NOT being applied to muslims, it is being applied to Uyghurs REGARDLESS OF THEIR RELIGION. 80% of muslims in China are NOT Uyghurs, and these policies DO NOT apply to them. The largest majority muslim ethnicity in China are the Hui, who are well assimilated into Chinese society, mostly speak Mandarin, and often you wouldn't even know they are muslim until you see them skipping the pork dumplings at the all-you-can-eat buffet.

      This policy is based on ethnicity.

      It is NOT based on religion.

      If you need this to be repeated a few more times, just ask.

    32. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Christianity is also viewed with suspicion in China, but since Christ made a point of telling people to be Pacifists and obey Authority, the PRC is fine with followers of actual Christian doctrines.
      But start preaching about Old Testament laws or saying that you answer to God before Man, and you'll find yourself in a hard labor camp real fast.

    33. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Indeed. The Old Testament is really the story of the Jews, very much like the Ramayana is the story of the pandavas in India. The Old Testament is not relevant to non Jews and has no relevance to christians other than Jesus being born a Jew.
      Everything that Christianity preaches is opposite to Jews from keeping kosher to having birth related religious affiliations to judging people etc

    34. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaking of, why is it bad for old phrases that no one follows anymore to exist in the bible, but diverse and progressive for Muslims to follow all the misogynistic shit in their books. Really charges your circuits.

    35. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      jewish law is in the old testament and christian is in the new testament.

      it's really not that hard if you actually fucking look into this stuff instead of just spouting platitudes and tired criticisms that every johnny know-nothing can get from the daily show

    36. Re: Good by perpenso · · Score: 1, Informative

      "If ... Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die"

      Where does "Jewish Law" end and "Christian Law" begin exactly?

      Perhaps with the teachings of Christ, the "Christ" in "Christian"? In this particular case perhaps where Christ tells people to stop stoning sinners? ;-)

    37. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Christianity is also viewed with suspicion in China, but since Christ made a point of telling people to be Pacifists and obey Authority, the PRC is fine with followers of actual Christian doctrines.

      No they are not. The Chinese Communist Party controls the clergy and injects political lessons.

      "Catholicism, like all religions, has been permitted to operate only under the supervision of the State Administration for Religious Affairs. All worship must legally be conducted through state-approved churches belonging to the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association (CPA), which does not accept the primacy of the Roman Pontiff. In addition to overseeing the practice of the Catholic faith, the CPA espouses politically oriented objectives as well. Liu Bainian, chairman of the CPA and the Bishops Conference of the Catholic Church in China, stated in a 2011 interview that the church needed individuals who "love the country and love religion: politically, they should respect the Constitution, respect the law, and fervently love the socialist motherland.’’ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    38. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, you think ISIS would deserve to be tolerated if it had a presence in the US ?

      Guess what you degenerate idiot, constitutional rights apply to ordinary citizens, criminals and domestic terrorists all the same. If the government has the right to bust down a "terorist's" door and summarily execute them they have the right to bust down YOUR door and summarily execute YOU.

    39. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So whats a "native" then if we all migrated from one part of the globe.... how many years before they are considered natives?

    40. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whereas the jews will cut off the end of their male child's penis.

      Mind what people do for it represents what they are outside of what they say.

    41. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All of the ten commandments are found in the New Testament. They are simply not in a convenient list form. Here is a list as taken from the NT. See link at
      http://www.stepsofchrist.church/sin_checklist/

      Tempting God (testing Godâ(TM)s love, power or wisdom)
      Worshipping false gods/Idolatry
      Murder
      Anger against another person without cause
      Adultery
      Looking with lust at a married person
      Divorce (except where the other party fornicated)
      Marrying a divorced person
      Swearing (profanity)
      Theft/Stealing
      Kidnapping/binding (as part of a kidnapping)
      Speaking against Lord Jesus Christ
      Fornication (sexual intercourse outside of marriage)
      False Witness (perjury, lying)
      Blasphemy
      Not honour your Father and Mother
      Not love your neighbour as yourself
      Tax evasion
      Not love God
      Hypocrisy
      Initiating Violence
      Covetousness (to desire what belongs to another)
      Extortion (obtaining something through force or threats)
      Railer (Reviler, abuser)
      Drunkard
      Eat things sacrificed unto idols
      Being a whoremonger

    42. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bigotry is not illegal.
      Which is nice for muslims because if it was then most of them would be in jail pronto.

    43. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      And we all know that. We all know that real Christians ignore the horrible parts of our holy book because we're humans, not monsters.

      But for some reason we're all supposed to freak out because somebody else's holy book wouldn't make a good episode of Sesame Street.

      Xenophobia isn't cool, man.

    44. Re:Good by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1
      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    45. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like somebody let Red Media tell them what progressives think instead of actually talking to one.

    46. Re: Good by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

      Hey! I recently both broke and filled Mosaic law all on my own; and I don't even believe in any gods or other supernatural things.

      How did I achieve this? It was easy. I did some work on the sabbath, and then I got stoned (several times).

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    47. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, that sure makes it a-OK, then!

    48. Re: Good by piojo · · Score: 1

      You're making too fine a distinction if you compared them to another ethnic group which did a better job of assimilating. I don't know much about the Uyghurs--are you saying they don't speak much Mandarin and don't share culture with the rest of China? It sounds like the problem isn't traditional racism, but a conflict between cultures that don't like each other's lifestyle.

      Not that that makes much of an argument in favor of Beijing's actions, though.

      --
      A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
    49. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "A new commandment I give you: that you love your neighbor as your self."

      JC

    50. Re:Good by lindseyp · · Score: 1

      It's not about racism, it's about anti-sedition.

      The fact that the seditious happen to be ethnically different is irrelevant. The fact that they wear their ethnicity as an anti-chinese badge might be.

      --
      j'ai découvert une démonstration vraiment admirable (de ce théorème général) que cette si
    51. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are now endorsing Sesame Credit.
      I know you assume it won't be something you'll have to comply with, and you would also be shocked to find out you're perhaps not in the governments 'most chosen people' category when your Loyalty Score mysteriously won't rise above the 80% threshold required to become a party member...

      Good thing for you it can only ever work against oppressed minorities because people like you sabotage it when it makes clear that no matter how much you shit on immigrants the ruling class will still assign you to the glue factory by accident and not even notice until it's too late.

    52. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My neighbors live next door to me. Any further, and I don't consider them neighbors.

    53. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Even without the OT a lot of Christians still cherrypick. For example where did their Lord Jesus Christ say anything about homosexuals? The only statements in the NT were made by Paul, an apostle of Christ.

    54. Re: Good by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Interesting

      are you saying they don't speak much Mandarin and don't share culture with the rest of China?

      Exactly. It is based on culture and ethnicity, and NOT on religion. If you promote separatism, you are going to get hammered, whether you are a muslim Uyghur or a buddhist Tibetan, and the punishment is going to be applied collectively.

      China is not "anti-muslim". There are 50 million muslims in China. There are mosques in every major city. Most of these muslims dress, speak, and act just like other Chinese, and consider themselves Chinese. Xinjiang is a much more recent addition to China, and was originally conquered by the Qing (Manchus), not Han Chinese. Xinjiang continued to resist, broke away many times, and was independent as recently as 1949. Many Uyghurs feel more kinship with the people across the border in Kazakhstan that with the rest of China.

      Not that that makes much of an argument in favor of Beijing's actions, though.

      This policy is not coming from the central government in Beijing. This is an initiative of the Xinjiang provincial government.

    55. Re: Good by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1, Informative

      Jewish Law? Begins in Exodus. More in Leviticus. Ongoing tradition of interpretation through your local rabbi.

      Christian law? Begins with acknowledgement of Jewish law and extracts the Great Commandment (Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One; Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind) and Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. From there has always been a diversity of practice in interpretation by various Christian religious communities, Christian religious leaders, and Christian rulers (where you will find it blended with civil law).

      If you want something specific the best bet for codified Christian law is probably the Code of Canon Law -- perhaps starting with The Obligations and Rights of All the Christian Faithful.

      If you want to talk about how a particular United States midwestern Protestant group with a sola scriptura mindset goes about it, that's another matter, and a bit harder.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    56. Re: Good by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Jeez you're remarkably dense. For someone with a name like "Shanghai Bill", you'd figure you'd know more about China. The Hui muslims aren't engaged in trying to revolt against the government. The Uighurs are. I just can't imagine how someone could make a comment like that and not mention the difference between the Uighurs and the Hui. It's a baffling lack of context from someone who should damn well know better.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    57. Re: Good by piojo · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the details. It's been a long time since I lived in China, and I wasn't particularly involved in the politics at the time.

      --
      A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
    58. Re: Good by ilguido · · Score: 1

      Yeah because circumcision is widespread among Christians. Oh wait, you are another one of those guys who do not know the difference between Old and New Testament.

    59. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jewish law ends and Christian law begins with Jesus Christ. Sheesh are you so stupid?

    60. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Glad that with so many now educated on this subject that these types of people are showing themselves for what they are. I used to think they were misguide but the truth is much more sinister.

    61. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If any collection of individuals pose a risk to the country the government has a duty to act. Makes no difference if this is a race, religion, gang, family, or region.

    62. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I tried, but her husband came back early and wasn't happy... Tried to love him too, but that only made him even more pissed off!

    63. Re:Good by jandersen · · Score: 1

      You explanation is too simplistic - political conflicts are never that straight forward. There is always culpability on both sides, and no one participant in a conflict ever tell an unbiased story; and when you pick a side, you are a participant, even if it is only in an infinitesimally small way - it certainly skews your opinions.

      They have been Muslims for centuries and before the formation of the PRC were semi autonomous.

      That is probably not entirely true - or not as simple as you put it; check Wikipedia for an outline of their history.

      However they are seen as a threat as they are not part of the Han ethnic group that the current chinese government comes from.

      Much of the conflict between the Uyghurs and the Chinese state goes back at least to the Qing Dynasty, so the modern PRC inherited an age-old conflict - I think it is disingenious to try to paint it as simply a about racism. I don't recognise any of the sources quoted in the OP, so how can I know that they are depicting the situation truthfully? What, if anything, do the Chinese state media have to say? When you don't have access to known, trustworthy sources, you have to weigh up what all sides say and try to balance your opinion that way; at least if you want to actually know the truth and aren't just looking to feed your grudges.

    64. Re: Good by johanw · · Score: 0

      Indeed. The Chinese government is much more tolerant to Uygurs than the American government was to the southern states during their civil war, which the north started.

    65. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what you're saying is they made an error, and should apply it to all Islamic people in China instead?

    66. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll talk with you... you little regressive rat! Do you care that your beloved SPLC has added Maajid Nawaz in the hate group list? While you exalt Islamists like Linda Sarsour, and chronic liars like Reza Aslan as your spokespersons. All these nonsense regardless of what ex-muslims, and non-muslims in Muslim-majority countries keep telling you -- you are helping Islamists persecute them! Where is your decency? Are you even human?

    67. Re:Good by jez9999 · · Score: 2

      They have been Muslims for centuries and before the formation of the PRC were semi autonomous.

      White Americans are constantly told they are not "natives" because they've only been in America for a few hundred years.

    68. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cheeky comment.

      Incidentally, the parable of the Good Samaritan clarifies just who constitutes one's neighbor.
      (Spoiler alert: everyone is your neighbor.)

    69. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you'll find Christian "law" is quite well codified in the New Testament.
      Anything outside of that is considered "tradition" -- *guides* for how a Christian should live his / her life -- however they are not *dogma*.

      Tradition includes:
              - Christmas being on 25th December (celebrate it on 17th June if you want, it really doesn't matter. Just pick a date.)
              - fasting during Lent
              - dressing well at Sunday's service
      None of those are "law" -- they don't make or break a Christian -- they're just guides.

      In fact, as another poster wrote earlier, Christian law reduces to a single commandment given by Christ Himself: love thy neighbour as thyself.
      That one law informs everything else.

    70. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Culture is not a race either.

    71. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck him. He's what we call a LaoWai, a derogatory term for a foreigner in China. Indeed, he's dense and full of shit most of the time. Among every group of foreigners here there's always that one asshole who thinks he's special and considers himself "the source" of all you could know about China. Usually but not always a pot-bellied fat ass pushing 60. Coincidentally, Shanghai is where most foreign assholes are known to congregate.

    72. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you even read what ShanghaiBill wrote? You just agreed with every point he made.

    73. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However they are seen as a threat as they are not part of the Han ethnic group that the current chinese government comes from.

      Yeah, it's all the fault of these racist bigot Han's! It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Uyghurs regularly commit terrorist attacks.

    74. Re:Good by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Adherents of a religion can be deemed a "race" of people, as they share a common heritage or tradition. Don't be so upset that the word "race" has lots of definitions. You might want to hold off on calling people idiots..

    75. Re: Good by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      You call it a disease, yet the more religion we force out of the USA the worse the USA becomes. Crazy right?

    76. Re: Good by guruevi · · Score: 1

      The USA has become more religious in the past few decades. If it's getting any worse, you sure know the source.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    77. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and funny how nobody ever mentions the Clovis culture whenever the inaccurate term "Native American" is used.

      Not to mention, since humans evolved somewhere in what is now Africa, everyone is an immigrant to North America, and we're only really having a "Who's been here the longest?" contest.

    78. Re: Good by umghhh · · Score: 1

      How many christians and/or jews did actually follow this because of their religion last year?
      How many women have been stoned for adultery last year in muslim countries?
      Compare and come back.

    79. Re: Good by swimboy · · Score: 1

      You call it a disease, yet the more religion we force out of the USA the worse the USA becomes. Crazy right?

      The only people it gets worse for are the ones who have in the past enjoyed special privileges and have been shielded from discrimination because of the social status afforded by their religious affiliation.

      So, yeah, it's crazy to think that people actually think that forcing religion out of our government is making things worse. It's just the butthurt christianists that are used to getting their way and keeping everyone else "in their place" that are worse off.

      --
      Ask me how the Heisenberg Principle may or may not have saved my life.
    80. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The black Americans have also only been in this country for a few hundred years, but it's the only white people that get told this because they're xenophobic bigots and think they have a right to keep others out.

    81. Re: Good by Dragonslicer · · Score: 2

      "If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city." -- Deuteronomy 22:23-24

      Emphasis added. The generally accepted interpretation of these verses is that if a woman were attacked in the middle of a city, someone else would hear the attack and come to stop it. If the woman didn't "cry out", and was therefore a willing participant, then she was guilty of adultery.

      Obviously, in the modern world, that assumption isn't valid, but 1000 BCE Israel was a different culture. The Torah also doesn't have nearly the minute detail that current US law has.

    82. Re: Good by dbIII · · Score: 1

      You may call it religion but I'm not so sure that the "prosperity gospel" would be seen as anything other than merchants in the temple to Jesus.
      There seems to be a lot of "God hates poor people, that's why they are poor" and "I've got mine" dressed up to look like something other than greed.

    83. Re: Good by vux984 · · Score: 1

      In this particular case perhaps where Christ tells people to stop stoning sinners? ;-)

      Christ also said he wasn't changing any of the 'law', and that everything was still applicable....

      Matthew 5-18 "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

      In bibles that highlight jesus' own words in red... this is red. I'm not sure how this passage doesn't carry Jewish law forward to the followers of Christ.

      It makes picking and choosing whatever you want a lot easier when Jesus gave all sides lots of ammo to use.

    84. Re: Good by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Matthew 5-17-18 seems to carry Jewish law forward to the followers of Christ.

    85. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you only read one sentence in the Bible. Read the rest or stop pretending to be a Christian.

    86. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Says, "I'll talk with you," and then proceeds to talk to a straw man.

    87. Re: Good by perpenso · · Score: 1

      The laws may carry over, what is considered sinful, but the punishments performed by men certainly seem to not necessarily carry over.

    88. Re: Good by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      lol

      So, yeah, it's crazy to think that people actually think that forcing religion out of our government is making things worse.

      I believe in the separation of church and state. But I am also for saying the real version of "The Pledge of Allegiance". Religion has been around for a long long time. I'm by no means saying it should be forced upon anybody, However our country was founded on Christianity.

    89. Re: Good by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      I completely understand where you're coming from. But that is with all walks of life, not just limited to religion. But maybe I'm not a common breed. I have been poor most of my life, even done time cause I needed money... But I cant really blame anybody but myself, and am not changing that. I make decent money, yet I live in a 400 sqft. apartment with my fiance and our dog. I don't believe in giving people hand outs because they're "poor" I have worked damn hard to get where I'm at today. And I feel others should be held to that same standard.

    90. Re: Good by swimboy · · Score: 1

      But I am also for saying the real version of "The Pledge of Allegiance".

      Which "real" version are you referring to? The original, written in 1887? Or the one that was modified during the red scare of the McCarthy era that added the words "under God" at the end?

      And whose God is it anyway? Most of the founding fathers were Deists, and had very little in common with the Evangelicals or even mainstream Protestants or Catholics of the modern era. Our country was most definitely not founded on Christianity.

      --
      Ask me how the Heisenberg Principle may or may not have saved my life.
    91. Re: Good by dbIII · · Score: 1

      That doesn't rate on the scale of those "God hates to poor" folks. Consider things like the people who got so angry when people who had been homeless in New Orleans before Hurricane Katrina got some help just like those "real people" who had property.
      I don't think Jesus would call those angry folks religious.

    92. Re: Good by aliquis · · Score: 1

      In case you haven't noticed:
      Christinas doesn't take the rules of the Jews / old testament that seriously.

      Also this sand-hippie said something about letting the non-sinners throw the first stone...

    93. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a big assumption, though. Just because someone doesn't cry out doesn't mean they are a willing participant.

      If an attacker is holding a knife to my breast and says, "If you make a noise I'll cut your tit off," does that make me a willing participant? Because I decided being raped was being better than being mutilated and raped?

      What if he just said, "If you make a noise, you'll regret it?" Having an active imagination, and being in the middle of a very traumatic situation, I'm going to assume the worst there. Does being quiet then mean I was a willing participant?

      I don't understand why, in 1000 BCE Israel, the explicit notion of consent wasn't stated if that's what they meant.

    94. Re:Good by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Game over man, game over.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    95. Re: Good by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      I see the coward knows nothing of his own religion. Nothing new here.

    96. Re: Good by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you need to go read your bible.

    97. Re: Good by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      You are obviously not from the US. Circumcision is very hard to avoid here. You have to explicitly tell the doctors and all nurses, and then watch them like a hawk to make sure they don't mutilate your baby's penis.

    98. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a relatively conservative Evangelical in the US... I agree with you.

    99. Re:Good by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      This guy gets it.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    100. Re: Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you read that book ? a lot of things are expressed like that , they didn't write in 21st century terms because ... it wasn't the 21st century. Civilization was different then. Let's be glad we have made so many advances and not get hung up on cultural differences. It's very surprising that people care so much about how something was said or written or done... hey, let's think for ourselves , we can figure out what is right or wrong. Biggest problem with Islam or any other cult is they don't want you to think because if you do, they will lose control.

    101. Re: Good by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Islam is not a race.

      And this excuses bigotry... How?

      Sure the technical term isn't racism, it's xenophobia. However most xenophobes are so dumb they cant understand words with more than two syllables, they're also dumb enough that they think anyone besides them is going to be fooled by the old "Islam is not a race" excuse and will forgive their bigoted bollocks.

      So the term racism has become interchangeable with xenophobia because the practical difference between a racist and a xenophobe is the practical difference between being a jerk and being a jerk.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  3. We need a new crusader pope... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    these panty waist protestants are giving away the west.

    1. Re:We need a new crusader pope... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      This pope has been at the forefront of opening up Italy and Europe to the Muslim rapefugee 'migrants'. The countries where this has been a burning issue has included 'Catholic' Spain, France, Austria, Belgium, mixed Christian Germany & Netherlands, Lutheran Denmark, Norway & Sweden, and Anglican England. One can hardly point to just one sect of Christianity.

  4. How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if you deny it? How can they prove what you believe (or not?)

    1. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Um, maybe it's the man-dress, AK-47 and car packed with 200 lbs of ANFO.

      Just sayin'.

    2. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by MouseR · · Score: 1

      Bacon strips.

    3. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by mark-t · · Score: 0

      If you think about that for just a moment you should realize how silly your question is. A person that truly believes in their religion isn't going to go and deny it, because adhering to their religion is more important than adhering to the laws and/or rules of this world. Reasonably, If one denim, then they clearly aren't passionate enough about any belief they may happen to have to be liable to pose a threat on account of any such beliefs.

    4. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My friend already caught by this. If you come to this place, don't forget to bring fresh phone, not your main phone.

    5. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A person that truly believes in their religion isn't going to go and deny it, because adhering to their religion is more important than adhering to the laws and/or rules of this world.

      Perhaps you've never heard of a guy named Saint Peter, who denied knowing Jesus Christ three times because he was afraid of the laws and/or rules of this world.

      See, John 18:13-27

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    6. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Rockoon · · Score: 2

      What if you deny it? How can they prove what you believe (or not?)

      You are a Muslim if you are on the List of Muslims.

      If you deny it then you are a Denier that is on the List of Muslims.

      Everyone on the List installs the Spyware. Deniers too.

      You can be added to the List of Muslims at any time.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    7. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by c-A-d · · Score: 1

      16:106. Whoever disbelieved in Allah after his belief, except him who is forced thereto and whose heart is at rest with Faith but such as open their breasts to disbelief, on them is wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a great torment.

      --
      some karma... and kinda lukewarm about it.
    8. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, you'd "catch" Jews, vegetarians and vegans with that.

      Ideas:
      - stop them from praying on a mat while facing whatever direction they use
      - ask them to draw mohammmed
      - ask them what infidels are
      - ask them to cut their beard and hairs
      - etc

    9. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 0

      And we all know what happened to that guy, don't we? Once he got into heaven, he was denied access to the arcade and the all-you-can-eat buffet.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    10. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      This is NOT targeted at muslims. It is targeted at Uyghurs, which are an ethnicity, not a religion. Other muslims, such as the Hui minority are not being targeted.

    11. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by n329619 · · Score: 1

      Let's see.

      He has a distance friend who knew someone from the China authority.

      Pass! Next Please!

    12. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do they know if you're Uyghurs then? If it's an ethnicity than they can present any appearance they chose.

    13. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by blindseer · · Score: 1

      What if you deny it?

      Then any Muslim within earshot will kill you. As far as the Chinese government is concerned the problem is solved on their end either way.

      How can they prove what you believe (or not?)

      If they are looking to check that their spyware is installed on your phone then I doubt they care what you believe. There are no rights in China. Denial will not be enough to free you from surveillance.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    14. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by blind+biker · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you think about that for just a moment you should realize how silly your question is. A person that truly believes in their religion isn't going to go and deny it, because adhering to their religion is more important than adhering to the laws and/or rules of this world. Reasonably, If one denim, then they clearly aren't passionate enough about any belief they may happen to have to be liable to pose a threat on account of any such beliefs.

      Taqiya (Arabic: taqiyyah, literally "prudence, fear")[1][2] is an Islamic term which refers to precautionary dissimulation or denial of religious belief and practice in the face of persecution.[3][4][1][5]

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    15. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, because a fictional character in Christian mythology is an indicator of how real Muslim exteremists act in real life.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    16. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      And we all know what happened to that guy, don't we? Once he got into heaven, he was denied access to the arcade and the all-you-can-eat buffet.

      Yeah, but now he's Heaven's bouncer, and can deny access to the VIP section to whomever he wants and gets to date the strippers.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    17. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by geek · · Score: 2

      A person that truly believes in their religion isn't going to go and deny it, because adhering to their religion is more important than adhering to the laws and/or rules of this world.

      Perhaps you've never heard of a guy named Saint Peter, who denied knowing Jesus Christ three times because he was afraid of the laws and/or rules of this world.

      See, John 18:13-27

      But then he was crucified upside down for not renouncing him. What's your point?

      I'm an atheist so I really don't give a shit anyway.

    18. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by dfenstrate · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually Muslims are specifically allowed by the Koran and Hadith to lie about being Muslim in order to save their hides. See Taqiyaa, kitman, and the various other officially sanctioned types of deception.
      Christians are expected to proclaim their faith though it may cost their lives, and many have done so.
      Another poster mentions St. Peter as denying his faith, but those three denials occurred four days before the capstone of the Christian faith was put in place- the ressurection of Christ.

      --
      Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
    19. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Yes, because a fictional character in Christian mythology is an indicator of how real Muslim exteremists act in real life.

      It's all fiction, Brent,

      Anyway, history is full of examples of fervent believers who denied their faith. Maybe you've never heard of the Marranos (I'm pretty sure you haven't) who were Jews who lived as Christians to avoid the Spanish Inquisition, or the many Jews who pretended to be Christian to avoid the Nazis. These were most assuredly not fictional characters.

      I've put together a little reading assignment for you, with references, because it appears your history education is a bit lacking.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    20. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      But then he was crucified upside down for not renouncing him. What's your point?

      My point is that history is full of examples of devout believers who denied their faith to evade the laws or the Inquisition or the gas chambers or the lash. Faith is fungible.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    21. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Well, it's worth noting that not only was he afraid for himself, but his entire faith was also starting to falter as well... a person whom he thought was more powerful than the world itself was being subjugated by it. My point stands, a person that really believes in their religion, particularly one that subscribes to a notion of spending eternity somewhere isn't about to deny it simply because of some possibility for earthly consequence. It's worth noting that Peter repented of the transgression, and did not repeat it thereafter. In his later years, he risked prison and death several times by speaking out in Jesus' name, and he eventually paid for it with his life.

      Of course, that doesn't make anything that he believed true... it simply means that he believed it more than he believed that the consequences of this world were not of any significant importance compared to eternity. Given the belief system that he had, it as even a perfectly rational decision.

    22. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck you, fish tits!

    23. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You oughta know.

    24. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      I would suggest that those "believers" were not as devout as they may have claimed, or else they would not have denied their alleged beliefs. They claim to "believe", but in reality, the only do so at times when it is convenient for them, and are not, if you will forgive the expression, "religiously committed" to their beliefs. The Christian bible calls such people "lukewarm", and suggests an eternity for those people that is less than ideal if they do not change. It's my understanding that muslims are also promised a pleasant hereafter if they die for a righteous cause and in service to Allah... so again, the idea that one would deny their so-called faith on the simple grounds that they may face some worldly unpleasant consequence seems to run against the grain of some major religions that advocate the notion of an eternal hereafter.

    25. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      How do they know if you're Uyghurs then?

      In China, your ethnicity is listed on your national ID card.

      Ethnic minorities in China.

    26. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You think Muslims are cartoon vampires who shriek at the sign of a bacon cross? You idiot, ISIS has specifically instructed their followers to break any Islamic law they need to and pretend to be Cristian to avoid detection.

    27. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apatheists also proclaim it by not proclaiming it and going about the rest of their lives.

    28. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahh yes, how to win an argument. Call the other person a "dumbshit".

      Yep, that'll be the argument won, then.

    29. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      False equivalency. Christianity does not equal Islam. If you are coming from a starting point that these are mostly the same thing then you really need to educate yourself, or stop writing nonsense on the internet. You can start by looking at the life of Mohamed vs the life of Jesus and see how they differ.

    30. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1
      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    31. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Uyghurs are a Turkic people who speak a Turkic language. They are ethnically, culturally, and linguistically quite distinct from Han Chinese.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    32. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 0

      The great thing about seeing posts from you is that I know in advance that the content in the post will be idiotic. Off you go now little troll turd ...

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    33. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He didn't say if they would deny It. He merely said, quite insightfully, that what matters is what a Muslim would do today, and that is all that matters. You have egg on your face I'm afraid.

    34. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least now we know you are a Muslim, Mindless (And don't bother denying it either; you just showed us your religion encourages you to lie about it!)

    35. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by goose-incarnated · · Score: 3, Informative

      Faith is fungible.

      Nope. Appearance of faith is fungible. As a lifelong atheist, I get to deal with stupid people all the time, and mostly I deal with them by not correcting them when they assume that I'm of {their favourite/their hated/any} faith.

      My son does the same. While you and I can split hairs on slashdot all day long, in real life it will be way too exhausting to correct people's misconceptions. It's better to simply avoid the argument that {their god is real/moon landings were faked/the MRA is out to get them/the earth is flat/etc}.

      Of course, on slashdot I get to determine how much of my time to waste; IRL the other party will continue the conversation long past the time that I am tired of it and I may not be able to get away.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    36. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Zero_Kelvin? More like Zero_Inteligence. AKA Asperger's.

    37. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One only needs to take a brief look at your history to see who the real troll is. What's wrong, Captain Asperger's? Your daddy walk out on you?

    38. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, all those accounts on starters and instigators of world religions are fiction by a pot smoking 14-year old from Idaho.. The believers believe that those people are something or did something. As an atheist who thinks it's knowable and perfectly obvious from the historical record of the religions that no god exists, I still believe that those people did exist, wrote all kinds of things and said something as recorded. Otherwise, what would be the point and the impetus of telling the story and documenting the history of the Church?

    39. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People attach way to much weight to a lie. You can say you don't believe something while actually doing so and it really doesn't matter.

    40. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by smallfries · · Score: 1

      Maybe you would get better at winning arguments if you tried harder? You deserve a ribbon anyway butterfly.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    41. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 0

      There was no argument idiot. There was a few fools claiming that it matters significantly if there are 100 Million or 50 Million sperm who couldn't back up their claim because it is stup if bullshit. I note you also are not trying to claim people are having any more trouble having children than they used to, so thanks for confirming that you also understand that their claim is idiotic.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    42. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      OK. I Thought this was the other idiot, so my other reply doesn't make sense. Now I know how it feels to be you idiots :^)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    43. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by umghhh · · Score: 1

      From what we know he may have existed actually. The story about bouncing job is another pair of shoes however.

    44. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by mark-t · · Score: 0

      Whether it matters in reality or not is actually completely irrelevant. If it matters to a person, then their actions will be guided by that belief.

    45. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      I wasn't suggesting that they were equivalent... I was simply observing that both religions appear to not place a very high priority on any of the bad stuff that may happen to one on account of their beliefs, and anticipating that in such religions, a devout believer would be inclined to not want to deny their faith simply because of what happens to be a minor material inconvenience in comparison to the scope of what they believe in.

    46. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      A guy named Clark Kent may also have existed. That doesn't lend any legitimacy to the Superman stories.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    47. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as they say,

      you do not live and interact with reality, you live and interact with the reality that you perceive. and good fiction tells us great truths in an untruthful way.

    48. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      ... i don't think that word means what you think it means.

    49. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      jordan peterson might turn you around on a bit of that. go give him a watch. interesting take, and gives me a appreciation for the judeo-christian fundamentals of western civilization.

      as he sometimes says. you might say you're an atheist, and you very well might think you believe it. but you're acting out a christian ethos so what do you really believe?

      he comes at religious morality... from an interesting and deeply affecting direction.

    50. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by umghhh · · Score: 1

      Not sure if I get you as I am not a fun of people in latex clothing unless they are busty females. So you say that there was one Clark Kent a journalist writing stories for a major newspaper? You see by rejecting everything there exists about the story of Jesus you become one of the people who believe instead of knowing. The same problem seen in most people fighting faith anywhere in the West. This does not mean you are a bad person it just means you are no different from people believing in fictional characters that you seem so dislike. I do not care either way but both sets of people i.e. individuals believing in odd stories and ones denying anything happened at all belong firmly to the same category of individuals that are difficult to deal with unless one accepts their version of reality.

    51. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      No, I am saying that there MAY have been a guy named Jesus Christ, but if so that doesn't mean he died and came back from the dead 3 days later, because that is just Christian Mythology.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    52. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now I know how it feels to be you idiots :^)

      No. You'll never know how it feels. Yours is a special kind of idiocy that's dwarfed only by your ego.

    53. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No he's right, and you are a fucking idiot

      Just die already, like now, seriously. You're wasting oxygen

    54. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go murder a reporter.

    55. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck you, fish tits!!

    56. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Fuck you, fish tits.!

    57. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Fuck you, fish tits!.!

    58. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Fuck you, fish tits.!.

    59. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. Appearance of faith is fungible. As a lifelong atheist, I get to deal with stupid people all the time, and mostly I deal with them by not correcting them when they assume that I'm of {their favourite/their hated/any} faith.

      See, this is why people think atheists are assholes. It's because they so frequently are condescending arrogant ass holes.

    60. Re: How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another poster mentions St. Peter as denying his faith, but those three denials occurred four days before the capstone of the Christian faith was put in place- the ressurection of Christ.

      Look. What we should do and what we actually very often are not in agreement.

      That's why it's laudable when someone behaves consistently with what they believe, especially as regards Christianity, but also atheists and everyone else behave hypocritically at times.

      And that is a core part of Christianity. The technical details of how many days passed between Peter's denial and Christ's resurrection are irrelevant and beside the point.

      "let he who is without guilt cast the first stone"
      "no one cometh to the Father but through Me"
      "...by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

    61. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Statistically, there are hardly any Jews in Xinxiang, the province where this edict is most likely to be implemented. Also, shaving the beard - that's only forbidden after a Muz has performed the haj - the pilgrimage to Mecca.

    62. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mostly I deal with them by not correcting them when they assume that I'm of {their favourite/their hated/any} faith.

      That becomes a burden when your close and far relatives assume something and you really, really hate lying to their faces as a kid who just wanted to belong, while implicitly realizing that there was not a shred of belief at any point in you. I may need to find a peer support group eventually for the issues that has caused, or grow up at some point..

    63. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      as he sometimes says. you might say you're an atheist, and you very well might think you believe it. but you're acting out a christian ethos so what do you really believe?

      Actually, that's the other way around, let me fix it for you:

      You might *say* you're a christian, but you're acting out a very secular ethos[1], so what do you really believe?

      [1] You're not stoning adulterers, you're not killing homosexuals, you touch women who are on their period, you have sex before marriage, divorce after marriage. You eat pork, pick up the fallen grapes in your vineyard, mix the fabrics in your cloths and shave the hair off your face.

      You aren't doing any of those christian things, but you do a lot of secular things, so ask yourself - what do you actually believe in?

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    64. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      the core of it though, is the intrinsic value of human life. there's very little rational about it.

      those are details, minor details at that. in this country, murderers have rights.

      why is it good to be truthful, is that something you've thought of. what is good?

      as jordan peterson says, that text you're criticizing, even if you say it's flawed, and no doubt there, even if it's contradictory in parts, even if even if... it is still a text that represents the received wisdom of 2000 years. throw out the parts that aren't good, but saying it has no value is being petty.

      he would say that rationality can take you far, but it simply elucidates what the world is, not how to operate in it.

    65. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      it is still a text that represents the received wisdom of 2000 years. throw out the parts that aren't good, but saying it has no value is being petty.

      Once again I must point out that you're looking at it exactly the wrong way around - the text might represent 2000 years of wisdom, but all the parts that are good are secular, while all the parts that are bad are not.

      You're looking at the book and saying "See? Religion has a few good things to say", while in reality the book would've been all good (not just a few things) if you'd only take out the religion.

      You're wedded to the idea that the only way to be good comes form the book, when in reality the book simply codified the good things that already existing and then added a few perversions of its own.

      Remove the perversions and you have no religion. The book may bestow good wisdom, but it does so in spite of its primary message, not because of it.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    66. Re:How do they know if you're a Muslim? by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      i don't think you're defining religious and secular properly. or not really understanding them so. both the religious sentiments that underpin western civilization, as well as the religious sentiments that underpin religious bigotry are religious in nature. just because those that underpin western civilization are less obvious on their face to be religious in nature, does not make them secular.

      eugenics is secular. kill the weak to remove them from the gene-pool. kill the infirm, sterilize.

      these are wrong, why are they wrong. because people have a right to life regardless of their utilitarian value. why do we believe that this is the case? because there is intrinsic value to all people etc. etc.

      the secular case devolves into utilitarianism to a large extent, there is no focus on the individual, or that case can be argued.

      my belief as i can elucidate it now, is that innately we know that the individual matters, that we matter, and i see that reflected and delineated in the judeo-christian ethos. hate the sin love the sinner. etc. etc. it still says to love the sinner, that resonates with me on a fundamental level. peterson has convinced me that there might be something there, in those texts, that describe how people have found best to live their lives.

      as peterson would describe it. get a group of people together, extract out the leader, take 100 leaders combine their stories and you get a hero myth. take a 100 myths and combine them and you have the basis for a religion. at each step you're extracting the common aspects, and the aspects that people 'look up to'.

      and the underlying structure that's being described, is the male power hierarchy regulated by female selection.

      because apparently, every person alive has twice as many female ancestors as male ancestors. as do most animals in the animal kingdom.

  5. China will finally have a taste of terrorism... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    About time!

    1. Re:China will finally have a taste of terrorism... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1, Informative

      China already has far more terrorism than America does. This action is in response to repeated attacks at train stations, schools, and even a coal mine. Most violence has been in Xinjiang, but some incidents involving Uyghurs have occurred as far away as Shenzhen and Kunming.

    2. Re:China will finally have a taste of terrorism... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      And Beijing.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  6. multiple & burner phones, multiple partitions by volvox_voxel · · Score: 2

    I wonder how many of them will get duplicate phones, and how hard it is to conceal the real one, or have a duplicate set of SIM cards to mask your identity. Pretty draconian.. This will make people at lot more aware and vigilant about their data security.. I wonder how hard it is to partition your phone such that you have a factory reset on one, and the government spyware app on the other, such that you can easily switch the two. e.g. have the program jump to another address in flash to find an alternative main().. I've done a lot of this kind of work for fail-safe firmware uploading, but don't know much about the flash system/OS of a phone...

  7. Report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm living in this city. And yeah, they forced me to install their crazy china app. I deleted all my critical information such as photos from the phone before handed to the police.

    This app is constantly sending my phone data to CN servers. I could filter them out using my VPN, but some of my friends are already caught by police for attemting "app decompile".

    So I changed my phone. Install 2 OS on one phone.
    1 is infected by china, and the other 1 is safe.
    This system works like Veracrypt's Hidden OS. I made this for myself about 4 years ago.
    You can switch OS1 and OS2 using smartphone's hardware button. I don't write details because I don't want chinese to fuck my phone.

    I've already asked by the police to show me the app. When my phone was moved suddenly, it automatically switched to OS1.
    Only I can use OS2.

    Technology is not for a noob. Fight against them, digitally.

    1. Re:Report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you trying to hide? Are you a terrorist?

    2. Re:Report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I'll answer if you have a question regarding this crazy app. Leave a comment, folks.
      (please don't get angry if I disconnect suddenly. My Tor meek is unstable.)

    3. Re:Report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do the police actually check that the app is working, and how closely do they look? What if you wrote an app that has a cloned UI as the official version, but doesn't report anything to the CN servers? Would the police be fooled by this? The dual-OS solution sounds more solid, but would be harder for non-technical people to deal with.

    4. Re:Report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm not. But I don't want other people to see my photos and projects, aka privacy. So you don't have nothing to hide? Nothing at all? If you say yes to this question, you are goddamn liar. Human is not a laboratory rat.

      People living here is giving up privacy. Only me and my friend who use my phone system(I call this "TOOP", pronounce touuup(looks like "soup"). Meaning, Two Os in One Phone.) enjoy some privacy.

      P.S. Slashdot, please stop "Confidentialité- France". Check IP and if it's tor, just fucking ignore me.

    5. Re:Report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must hand over the phone itself. The police have to touch the phone.
      So, "What if you wrote an app that has a cloned UI as the official version" never work.

      Also, "doesn't report anything to the CN servers" mark the user as suspicious. Filter out packet = suspect.

      Think about a database like this:
      User_Machine_GUID | Connected_Last_Known | PhoneConnectedNow
      XXXXXXXXXXXXX | 3 month ago | Yes

      *PhoneConnectedNow = Connected to mobile network

      " The dual-OS solution sounds more solid, but would be harder for non-technical people to deal with."
      Yes I know, this is my private project. I don't have a plan to release them dynamically because if the
      noob start using it, the police will try to use them too. Sad truth, really.

    6. Re:Report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe AC was being sarcastic.

    7. Re:Report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well really, this approach is much more logical than universal encryption backdoors, is it not?

    8. Re:Report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. Hardware always win than Software. Become hard gentleman :)

    9. Re:Report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank to you, we have information all we need find you we will

    10. Re:Report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is how you end up in jail for a long time. You're actively subverting their software via your illegal actions. You don't even get to claim ignorance on this one.

      Don't get caught. These people are very good at breaking nerds like you who aren't well familiar with concept of pain.

    11. Re:Report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Haha. Try me :) When I install my device on my friends phone, I always tell this lesson: "Don't use OS2 in public area.".

      And if I got something shit like you, my other system will distribute TOOP code into wild automatically. and guy like you will take a look at it.
      Actually, I already saved my codes to random places. These are encrypted so nobody can look at it until my system yell a key and location.

      I won't get caught. If I lose, you will get my work, for open source. :)

    12. Re:Report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      narc

    13. Re:Report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In totalitarian regimes, anyone that disagree with the government is a terrorist. See Turkey, Syria, Egypt...

    14. Re:Report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can you say "France" and not be?

    15. Re:Report by jez9999 · · Score: 0

      Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

      We've been having to live with that in the UK for a while now - enjoy it in China.

    16. Re:Report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit!

    17. Re:Report by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Waaaaaay ahead of you.

    18. Re:Report by Lost+Race · · Score: 1

      These people are very good at breaking nerds like you who aren't well familiar with concept of pain.

      Sufficient torture will break anybody at all. Resisting torture isn't about tolerating pain, it's about committing to the logic of the situation. Nerds who can do the math have an advantage there.

  8. I will force all you nerds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to put your head in the toilet and get a swirly!

  9. What if you don't have a cell phone? by mark-t · · Score: 1

    [nt]

    1. Re:What if you don't have a cell phone? by hyades1 · · Score: 1

      Get one!!!

      Sincerely,

      The Gubmint

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    2. Re: What if you don't have a cell phone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you can't take pictures of your fish tits!

      Fuck you, fish tits!

  10. About Time Someone Actually Fought Terrorism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    China is proving that it really is the best country on the planet. It's going to eradicate terrorism without dropping a single bomb on a single wedding party. Innocent Muslims have nothing to hide and therefore nothing to worry about. Guilty ones, however, will get their due.

    1. Re:About Time Someone Actually Fought Terrorism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, it gets much better. Remember the one child policy? Doesn't apply to Han in Xinjiang. Uighurs are already a minority and their number is shrinking fast.

      Basically the reverse of what Europeans are doing with their muslims.

    2. Re:About Time Someone Actually Fought Terrorism by piojo · · Score: 1

      I think you're being sarcastic. But Japan has mostly kept religious terrorism out of its country by simply not allowing many Muslims to immigrate, and not allowing construction of new mosques. It's not even particularly oppressive, unless a Muslim has his heart set on moving to Japan. Of course, the strategy of keeping Islam out entirely wouldn't work in a country that has a large established Muslim population, because it would be extremely oppressive.

      --
      A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
    3. Re:About Time Someone Actually Fought Terrorism by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My understanding is that Japan doesn't allow many people to immigrate there, period.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    4. Re: About Time Someone Actually Fought Terrorism by guruevi · · Score: 1

      It's actually relatively easy to immigrate to Japan, get an education, masters or PhD particularly, from a recognized institution and you can immigrate pretty much immediately. Religion and education are polar opposites, it's a great filter.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    5. Re:About Time Someone Actually Fought Terrorism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indonesians are one of the biggest immigrant communities after Chinese and Koreans, and there are mosques all over Japan catering to them, Malaysians and other Muslim immigrants, ranging from ordinary looking houses and office buildings, through buildings with an Islamic looking facade over the doorway to classic Islamic architecture like the 1935 Masjid Kobe, and 2009 Al Nour Islamic Center in Fukuoka. Terrorism in Japan comes from its own Shinto religious extremists anyway.

    6. Re:About Time Someone Actually Fought Terrorism by piojo · · Score: 1

      It seems I believed an article about this which people knowledgeable about Japan generally think is untrue. There's discussion on the topic here: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-tr...

      (Just don't try to click through to the original article, because it has become a spam page.)

      --
      A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
    7. Re: About Time Someone Actually Fought Terrorism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SO... You're basically proving his point, are you not?

  11. MD5?! by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

    MD5 has collisions like a mofo. Besides, this sure sounds like a universal, "we don't like this person and therefore they're a terrorist" type of situation. I would be interested in knowing just what the application is capable of because I get the feeling they can remotely upload/delete whatever they want to/from your phone.

    Seems like a legit reason to not have a smartphone.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:MD5?! by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      MD5 has collisions like a mofo. Besides, this sure sounds like a universal, "we don't like this person and therefore they're a terrorist" type of situation.

      The ethnic conflict in China is not exactly the same as the terrorist situation we have here in the US. Almost 200 people died as a result of riots by the Uyghur minority. There's also more recent and typical terrorist attacks such as this and this, which also fans the flames. I can see why they're suspicious of muslims in general.

      Seems like a legit reason to not have a smartphone.

      Or you can side-load a cracked version that doesn't actually report anything, though I highly doubt terrorists are smart enough to actually do that. Plus, I'm pretty sure pirating (and cracking) software is haram.

    2. Re:MD5?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      MD5 doesn't have a pre-image attack as far as I know. You can make two different files that have the same hash, but you can't choose the hash and need to have both files before you can start the calculation for finding the collision.

    3. Re:MD5?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A country that blocks people from visiting Wikipedia couldn't possibly make something up.

    4. Re:MD5?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think a pre-image attack is at all necessary to defeat this system. It would be nice because you could flood the system with good files that have the same md5 values as your bad files, but not necessary. To defeat this, you just need to change the hash to something that isn't on their list. Most file types have payload areas that are unused or, in many cases, can have random bytes tacked onto the end with no loss of fidelity. One of the best ways to fight this would be for websites to incorporate software that randomly changes the md5 value of every file transmitted.

    5. Re:MD5?! by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      . Besides, this sure sounds like a universal, "we don't like this person and therefore they're a terrorist" type of situation.

      Your concern about being framed is sweet, but naive. It's communist china. Being a person "we [the government] don't like" is a crime, often a capital one. It's easier to just announce they found evidence while making someone disappear and not expounding on it

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    6. Re:MD5?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i don't think the chinese government is too concerned about potential collisions and false positives.

    7. Re:MD5?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hash collisions are not really an issue in this context. A large number of false positives is fine, it all makes work for the police who will then round up and demand to inspect the phone manually.

    8. Re:MD5?! by piojo · · Score: 1

      The collision attack isn't possible unless you are able to submit "bad" files to their system. You can't do that without getting in trouble for contraband.

      --
      A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
    9. Re:MD5?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Besides, this sure sounds like a universal, "we don't like this person and therefore they're a terrorist" type of situation.

      Speak against a corrupt official and behold, the police can't find the app during the next spot search.

  12. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The police searched every device on home. They forced us to register all devices we have. And if we hide some of them, they have a right to arrest. Don't even think about it,

  13. Windows by airfabio · · Score: 1

    This might be the only time when it is worth it using Windows Phone. No one ever develops apps for that.

  14. How's that most favored status working out? by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    So we here in the US are going to publicly denounce this, right? Any minute now right? Any. Minute. Now.

    And yeah, it does kinda piss me off that my country throws human rights out the window for cheap(ish) consumer goods. Especially when Motorola proved they could sell phones made in the US without slave labor profitably, just not _as_ profitably.... Meanwhile the Saudi's are getting ready to execute another batch of protestors. Crap.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re: How's that most favored status working out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What leg does the US have to stand on exactly against spying on its (and everyone elses) citizens?

    2. Re:How's that most favored status working out? by Required+Snark · · Score: 1
      Well, if anyone but Trump was in the White House, this would be the subject of a press release/briefing by the State Department. It is part of their duties to publicly scold entities outside the US who violate human rights. Not to imply that these scoldings are based on a uniform standard, but anything in China is routinely brought up as an example of bad behavior.

      With the dynamic duo of Trump and Tillerson, who knows? Trump is unlikely to know or care. because his name would not be associated with any of it. Trump's name recognition for the Trump name is the single criteria for Trump to pay attention. No Trump name, no Trump interest.

      Note: the preceding paragraph has a high enough percentage of the word Trump to make it interesting to the President.

      The Trump/Tillerson State Department is a dysfunctional mess. It is entirely possible that this Chinese action would slip through the cracks. They have still not appointed a fair number of ambassadors. Trump's foreign policy is rootless and subject to his whims. There is no coherent doctrine. Tillerson falls into the mold of having no public sector experience and very minimal exposure on how international diplomacy works. Unless you include Tellerson's Exxon helping the Russians evade international sanctions.

      So yes, it is entirely possible that this will get no formal government response and even less press coverage. Welcome to Trump World.

      --
      Why is Snark Required?
    3. Re:How's that most favored status working out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China enacted a program that is privacy invasive and racist that continues their pattern of behavior in Xinjiang over the last ten years, therefore Trump is to blame?

      You wrote the word "Trump" 12 times. The article has nothing to do with the US. Trump wasn't mentioned at all.

      Welcome to Trump World.

      Apparently. That's the only think you think about.

      This obsession has crossed the line into mental illness.

    4. Re:How's that most favored status working out? by ckatko · · Score: 1

      I agree 100%. No human rights abuses were ever ignored under the Obama administration.

      None.

      Not one.

      Because he wasn't Trump.

    5. Re:How's that most favored status working out? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Your butt-hurt does not invalidate the facts or reasoning presented by Required Snark.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    6. Re:How's that most favored status working out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are aware that you have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world right?

      Human rights?

    7. Re:How's that most favored status working out? by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      So yes, it is entirely possible that this will get no formal government response and even less press coverage. Welcome to Trump World.

      *insert hashtag activism courtesy of Obama White House* Perfect for social justice advocates and smug millinaials so they can feel good about themselves.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    8. Re:How's that most favored status working out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somebody's too upset to admit that Trump can't even manage to have a pointless, empty, rhetorical press briefing, or even a TWEET over it, because well, Obama. Obama. Hillary. Obama. Hillary.

      Rrragh!

      You still trying to admit that REPLACE is the important part, or not?

  15. well yes, do it here too ! by swell · · Score: 1

    Not just Muslims but all terrorists and troublemakers. College students and professors, hippies, hackers, union members, women, gays and anyone with an IQ above 70.

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
    1. Re:well yes, do it here too ! by fafalone · · Score: 1

      It will come soon. All of your cloud files and emails if you use Google/MS are already hashed and scanned. First for child pornography, which being something horrible not too many objected. Now increasingly for copyright enforcement. I have no doubt Windows will soon scan your local files too, and like the cloud it will start with CP, which you can't object to without being labeled a pedophile yourself. Then copyright. If you think the list of banned materials won't expand, and that particular groups won't be targeted, you haven't been paying attention.

  16. What's the icon look like? by Ken_g6 · · Score: 1
    --
    (T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
    1. Re:What's the icon look like? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it a yellow six-pointed star?

      Your attempt to conflate Muslims ( the extremists of which religion are known to blow people up and act in a manner NO civilized society would find
      acceptable ) with innocent Jews who were persecuted by Nazi Germany makes it clear you're incapable of critical thinking, because you are unable to
      discern the fundamental differences between Muslim extremists who like to blow people up and Jews who just wanted to live peacefully.

    2. Re:What's the icon look like? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meanwhile, you just demonstrated your inability to think critically, by failing to discern the fundamental difference between Muslims and Muslim Extremists.

      (It's like rain, on your wedding day!)

    3. Re:What's the icon look like? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Moderate" muslims never denounce what the extremists do, they not only tolerate it, but quietly condone it. Islam is not a religion... it is an evil ideology based on conquest and domination and a blight on this world.

    4. Re: What's the icon look like? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In your imagination, do you believe Nazis didn't have an excuse? You think they were like, "Jews are basically nice folks, but make sure you tell us if you find one we didn't send to a work camp, 'kay?"

    5. Re:What's the icon look like? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh really? Odd, last time I checked in ALL Muslims were worshipping from a set of books which were written by a man who married a 6 year old girl.

      Puhlease, give me a break, anybody who worships in that religion is pre-neanderthal at best.

    6. Re:What's the icon look like? by Pizza · · Score: 1

      Ah, I see -- You mean just like how "moderate" Jews denounce what their extremists do? Funny, I'd considered throwing gobs of ongoing subisidies at 'em so they can "settle" somewhere else to be a sign of tacit approval.

      --
      -- I ain't broke, but I'm badly bent.
    7. Re:What's the icon look like? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find it interesting how that girl's age gets lower every time that story's retold. What's wrong, jealous?

    8. Re:What's the icon look like? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meanwhile, you just demonstrated your inability to think critically, by failing to discern the fundamental difference between Muslims and Muslim Extremists.

      (It's like rain, on your wedding day!)

      The Muslims who are not extremists won't be snatched up and imprisoned. Those who are, will be. In any case, it's all going to happen regardless of what you say or "think".

      So go back to your video games, you pathetic wannabe intellectual.

    9. Re:What's the icon look like? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So go back to your video games, you pathetic wannabe intellectual.

      ...Project much, do you?

      The glaring flaw in your highly "intellectual" rebuttal is that you've used the outcome as evidence that the outcome was justified. By your same fallacious logic, if you "disappeared" tomorrow, it could have only been due to you being one of those evil muslim extremists, arrested just before you curb-stomped an innocent angel, and no other reason whatsoever. Certainly not because you happened to question the proportionality of some governmental policy. Or something someone texted to you.

    10. Re:What's the icon look like? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, like they fight such extremists, and even kill them when they cannot detain them.

    11. Re:What's the icon look like? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hitler was a time traveler. Only he traveled to the wrong time and targeted the wrong group of assholes. But the whole oven thing and branding; dude, that's fucking brilliant way culling the muzzies.

    12. Re:What's the icon look like? by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      I don't see any "moderate" Muslims doing anything about the rest of the crazy motherfuckers.

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    13. Re:What's the icon look like? by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      So can you name all those Jewish suicide bombers? Oh wait...

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    14. Re:What's the icon look like? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are interpretations of that story in which she is 21 or even other older ages.

    15. Re:What's the icon look like? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The jews dont have the guts for it, however Israel was created by jewish terrorism. Are you fucking stupid, or just another Israeli hasbara shill?

    16. Re:What's the icon look like? by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      Totally agree. The fact that they pay lip-service to fighting terrorism but continue to let these radicalized psychos hide out in their communities is the clear indicator of the actual mindset of these so-called "moderates".

    17. Re:What's the icon look like? by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      The Israelis don't need to blow themselves up. They have enough money coming from US-based Jews and the US government to buy endless military vehicles like jets and big fucking tanks that they regularly use to bomb and bulldoze the homes of legal civilian residents of Palestine and the Gaza strip, and also to starve them out by blockading aid and food trucks getting to them.

    18. Re:What's the icon look like? by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 1

      What do we call you and what you're doing? Looks like you're on an anti-Islamic jihad to me. Are you also fighting against terrorism committed against Muslims? Because it is apparently news to you that the most of the violence of these fundamentalists is directed against the insufficiently faithful members of their own faith. Being an apostate is much worse than being an infidel.

      --
      Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
    19. Re:What's the icon look like? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try removing your hands from over your eyes if you want to see (but I suspect you are perfectly happy in your ignorance)

    20. Re:What's the icon look like? by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      Thats some fucked up logic you have right there.

      So you seriously think that expecting muslims to follow through on their own promises and actually take a stand against terrorism is somehow committing an anti-islamic "jihad" (assuming there can be such a thing)?

      As for your ridiculous strawman argument: At what point did I ever even suggest that I support muslim fundamentalist violence against other muslims? Of course I don't. At least respond to what I actually said please, not just presume its OK to put your own liberal insanity in my mouth too.

    21. Re:What's the icon look like? by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 1

      You don't apparently understand the meaning of the word 'jihad'. It could very easily describe your behavior. Yes, I agree that it's fucked up. I mean, it's kind of funny, but more sad.

      Terrorism globally has killed a tiny fraction of the amount of people that have been killed in civil warfare between Muslims. Your argument is like saying, "Why don't normal Americans speak out against criminal gang members?" For one, we do, for two, this is a thousand times more a problem for them than for other people. I assure you that as much as you might like to deny it, humans are pretty similar all around the world, and nobody likes having radicalized psychos hanging around them. Hopefully we may exclude you from that category.

      --
      Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
  17. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by rtb61 · · Score: 1

    At the end of the day, the easiest thing to do is have more than one phone. One at home and one for wandering about. One phone is safe and the other phone is a mobile alibi. The more incompetent authorities rely on the alibi phone, the more you can use it to create the digital record of a model citizen. Much the same as with social network, why one identity on a social network, one for the public, perfect employee and one for private. Keep in mind the value of a alibi phone of having it and maintaining it, it's personal security worth in an authoritarian state, you definitely do not want to dick with it's function, just adjust your use of it to provide you the best benefit. It really is kind of pointless to do it publicly, it only really works if you do it like US customs does it, secretly. Do it publicly and the phone than serves the interest of questionable people who than use it to create a government approved alter ego of themselves, do it secretly like US customs and of course they are more likely to use that phone foolishly.

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  18. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by Kiuas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This will make people at lot more aware and vigilant about their data security...

    You've hit the nail on the head. This actually makes the position of the extremists arguably easier. Now you don't have to second guess whether or not your phone is being monitored, you can count on it and work around it. And the solution doesn't have to be fancy or technical: you just setup a set of code word/phrases via snail mail using everyday common phrases, and instead of sending "proceed with the next stage of the operation", you send "pick up milk and rice from the store".

    Which is to say: the point of eavesdropping on potentially dangerous individuals is negated by the idiocy of asking these people to assist you in their own eavesdropping by installing the required software.

    But the Chinese are not dumb enough to not realize this, which means the real cause of this is something else entirely: first it's a PR move to appease the populace by appearing to do 'something' to react to the threat, but more importantly this gives the authorities a convenient reason to detain anyone for 10 days. I mean, all they have to do is 'inspect' the phone and remove the app and BAM the guy's away for 10 days while you go through and mic his apartment and car, and if need be plant some evidence so that he can be jailed for longer. Or they can just change the log files they have from the apps to include something suspicious and arrest anyone on terrorism charges on that grounds. It's not like the chain of evidence in the Chinese system is reliable: they control the log and the phones, so that means you provably said what they claim you said, after all that's what the records show.

    So in the end this is just a way of making sure they have the ability to jail anyone at any time for any reason, which they've had all along, but usually it's been a slightly longer process, this seems to be just a step to make it easier and faster.

    --
    "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
  19. Irresistable force meets immovable object by blindseer · · Score: 1

    Islam is not just a religion, it is a legal structure, where atheism is punishable by death. Communism is incompatible with any faith. Now we see the two meet. There will be no winners here.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    1. Re:Irresistable force meets immovable object by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      PLA: "Do you renounce your faith?"
      Muslim 1: "No
      PLA: *shots fired point-blank in the head*
      PLA: "Do you renounce your faith?"
      Muslim2: "Allah A.."
      PLA: *several shots fired point-blank in the chest*
      PLA: "Do you renou..."
      Muslim3: "Yes, yes I do.

      And that's how you break the back of your adversaries with everyone watching. It's motherfucking BRUTAL. It's also exceedingly successful. The West can't stomach how to achieve victory, so we haven't nor will we ever have it again.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:Irresistable force meets immovable object by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Islam is not one religion you moron, just like christianism and judaism, there is an infinite variety of belief.

    3. Re:Irresistable force meets immovable object by pauljlucas · · Score: 1

      How do you know Muslim3 isn't lying?

      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
    4. Re:Irresistable force meets immovable object by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Don't have to eliminate all of them, just the brave ones, and leave the remaining to cower among the fringe minority amongst the rest of the population.

      Sometimes you've got to put out that fire with fire. And yes, human beings are the most creative and vile creatures on Earth; and we're damn good at it too!

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    5. Re:Irresistable force meets immovable object by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes bigot boy, its time American white trash were elimineated, luckily, with all those guns, you do better killing each other than terrorists trying to kill you.

    6. Re:Irresistable force meets immovable object by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There will be no winners here.

      Yes there is, if we let them annihilate each other..

    7. Re:Irresistable force meets immovable object by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      How do you know Muslim3 isn't lying?

      It doesn't matter. If you force-convert people enough of them remain converted to make a difference.

      Christianity was spread at the point of the sword; look how well it took.

      Forcing a population to renounce their religion is a strategy that works very very well :- you get the overwhelming majority (+90%) and their descendants permanently converted.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    8. Re:Irresistable force meets immovable object by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that would only eliminate the stupid ones

    9. Re:Irresistable force meets immovable object by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever met or interacted with a PLA? I was once left alone in China, and two PLA soldiers came and sat on the bench with me to make sure i was safe. Once my party met up with me, they got up and left without saying a word. The weirdo beside me sure got up and left the area quickly when they came.

      But in all reality, you probably lack a passport, let alone ever spent any time in China.

      The west knows about brutality just fine, agent orange, nuclear weapons....

    10. Re:Irresistable force meets immovable object by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    11. Re:Irresistable force meets immovable object by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      >> Yes bigot boy, its time American white trash were elimineated ..and you can say that without any sense of irony occurring in your tiny brain?

    12. Re:Irresistable force meets immovable object by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      I met some PLA soldiers in Foshan. They insisted on buying me coffee and cake as an inducement to stick around for a while so they could practise their English.

      Oh, the horror.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  20. This thread by MrKaos · · Score: 1

    Will likely be one where everyone discusses their differences in a sane a rational manner and everyone will go their own way the wiser for it. I can't wait to see how enlightened we all will be at the end of it.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  21. Can you give some other details? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Notably phone models with isolated baseband processors and either jailbreak free, or no-jail rooting capabilities?

    I've been looking for a replacement for my pre-trustzone smartphone, but have been having a hard time finding enough information on a phone less than 200 USD that checks all my boxes.

    1. Re:Can you give some other details? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I can't give you my phone model specifically because information could be used to target me.
      Jailbreak or non-jailbreak, it's free. My device work. It's a very small device.

      TOOP is not an app. It's a small device with switch.
      You have to open the smartphone and replace the part.

      (Hardware key)+(some other actions)+(surrounding condition)=Switch_OS_Trigger

      I'm a repairman. My work is extremely clean and I'm proud of it. Nobody notice the phone is rigged or not.

    2. Re:Can you give some other details? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Assuming this guy's posts are real... all I can say is, stay safe man. It is a dangerous game.

    3. Re: Can you give some other details? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What happens when thier app reports it's only running an hour a day? Busted.

    4. Re:Can you give some other details? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you put a switch onto a SIM card which somehow contains two SIM chips. correct?

  22. Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just get a Windows Phone. Theres no app for that

  23. Re: multiple & burner phones, multiple partiti by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You need a passport or citizen card to get a cellphone.

    I live in China

  24. Sudden increase in dissidents by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

    Suddenly the number of dissidents jumped. Couldn't be anything with a newly missed iff bunch of people now feeling whatever freedoms they had squashed even further? Even the most innocent can lash back out they feel they are being treated unfairly or like caged animals. .

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
  25. Minority by n329619 · · Score: 1

    What's a Smartphone? I need App? Oh! Apple! I do know what an apple is. I have one right here.

    /no offense

  26. Excuses, excuses, excuses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is always a great excuse to take that first step - then comes the slide. When governments apply systems like this to hated groups, everyone should understand from the start that it's just alpha or beta testing. Once developed, it is even easier to find the excuses to expand its usage.

  27. IN the USA by sit1963nz · · Score: 1

    In the USA, the NSA will install it for you, and they will "update" your encryption so there is another master key...... just in case you loose yours. Yes, I am being sarcastic, but 20 years ago who would have believed that this is close to being the truth.

    1. Re:IN the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I knew someone would mention how the NSA trumps China in all things when it comes to spying on its citizens. Well done citizen. Ready to accept your NSA-approved malware? Trump is ready to give the order. Any second now......

  28. The were told about it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the US, such apps were installed secretly,

  29. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by Kjella · · Score: 1

    You're assuming everybody starts out like some super-secret agent. If you're trying to recruit people to join your cause, you need feelers out there to find possible sympathizers. Even if you do the real talking offline, you've probably been in contact via phone or chat before that if nothing else then just to agree where and when to meet. It's metadata about who you have talked to. You make people afraid to say the wrong things. You make people afraid to agree with those who say it. You make the process slow and tedious. You make any act of rebellion be a small spark that'll fizzle. The Chinese government is too big to care about one lone wolf here and one wolf there. They just don't want anything big and organized and this is to pour sand in the machinery.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  30. apple and google need to ban this app! by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    apple and google need to ban this app!

    1. Re:apple and google need to ban this app! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They could try but I imagine CN government will simply outlaw Google/Apple companies from CN unless they comply with federal law. This is no different to operating in any country.. you want to do business in the USA you must comply with federal law.

  31. Re:I doubt if slashdot is for techie by smhui · · Score: 1

    It seems a good idea to have two OS on the same smartphone. However, you missed a point that there is no such solution four years ago. So, be smarter when you want to have a better story for the naive.

  32. China doesn't want to end up like Germany by kelanos · · Score: 0

    They looked on in horror at what the "Allies" did to Germany and Sweden to punish them for being the best. They know exactly what the Jews do when off-leash; so far they seem to have walked the line of containing "Western" aka Jewish influence in their culture and using Jewish social and economic models to structure their society.

    No 'terrorists' are going to be stirring up the public and causing them to defect to the west any time soon.

    1. Re:China doesn't want to end up like Germany by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Um... what?

      Sweden was a *non-participant* in WWII, just as it's been a non-participant in every conflict since 1809. Germany got punished for trying to conquer all its neighbours and to exterminate a number of ethnic groups.

      And I'm guessing you're an anti-Semitic nutjob.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    2. Re:China doesn't want to end up like Germany by kelanos · · Score: 0

      UMMMMMMMM.....like.....whaaat
      waaaaaaaaaat

      uuummmmmmmmmmmmm...hold on my brain is stuck this is the sound I make when it's retrieving propaganda.....what???...it's cute when i do this, it's like i'm racking my vast expanse of knowledge, all the knowledge in the universe, and then the query comes back with nothing. I am very, very well informed, because I so steer myself that I almost never fall into disagreement with anyone.

      you're a stupid animal

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      why don't you read before talking? oh because you're a stupid animal

      are you even any aware of unrefuted evidence of the 'holocaust'? Animals like you have their entire perception shaped LITERALLY by the first explanation they hear. You suspend a logical process because you're only triggered to rational thought for specific rewards, because you're not a human, you're pavlovian-conditioned animal.

    3. Re:China doesn't want to end up like Germany by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Perhaps *you* should have read at least the first sentence of the Wikipedia article you linked?

      Sweden maintained its policy of neutrality during World War II.

      Hey, they're playing your song...

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    4. Re:China doesn't want to end up like Germany by kelanos · · Score: 0

      you are so, so , so ,so ,so fucking retarded

      you literally and truly need to commit suicide, you are a cancer of ignorance

      Germany completely relied on swedish steel

  33. Re:I doubt if slashdot is for techie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You need to update your head. Dual-OS devices did exist 4 years ago.

    This person might be a developer of one of these devices.

  34. Yet another case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another case

    Of I wonder why they don't like us.....

  35. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah no

    See, the beautiful thing about what Kiuas has described is that it's the standard form of the rank-and-file political game, just electronic.

    We also know the assessment is at least viable because it's already happened for years on China's internet... they blanket ban terms, remember? So it has become normal on the Chinese internet to use euphemism, metaphor and synonyms.

    Substitution ciphers are trivial to build via a human element, really difficult to compromise without a human element, and incidentally work really well in ideographic languages.

  36. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    Good luck doing that in a country where *all* mobile phones and their numbers are quickly and easily traceable by the authorities.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  37. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    Do you really think Chinese censors are not aware of such things?

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  38. But what about the standard spyware? by houghi · · Score: 2

    I thought all phones made in China where already full of spyware, or are they only accessible to the NSA?

    I seriously would like to know what the history books will have to say about these times of data collection by governments and companies alike.

    I hope they will say that it was just a black page in history, because that would mean things would have gone better. If they say that this was the period that the great enlightenment started, it means that things would get far worse.

    Well, privacy was nice while it lasted, but just like your virginity, one you get fucked, you ain't getting it back. The difference is that you have no say in the matter. Not really.

    I think I need to re-watch "The Circle".

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    1. Re:But what about the standard spyware? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I seriously would like to know what the history books will have to say about these times of data collection by governments and companies alike."

      Like everything else in the history books, it'll depend on who ends up winning.

  39. Better yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Take phones and service away from Muslims. They use these tools to make jihad. I think China is being too nice to Muslims. I think the whole world is too nice to a group that basically is set on the destruction of the world (by making it 100% dar es-Islam / Islamic).

  40. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by Kiuas · · Score: 1

    Even if you do the real talking offline, you've probably been in contact via phone or chat before that if nothing else then just to agree where and when to meet.

    Except that's not usually how recruitment works. The enemy is aware that electronic communication is monitored, so even in the West the majority of first contacts by recruiters are made in person. In mosques, cafes etc. The idea that 'online recruitment' is how all the extremists are recruited is misguided. Online propaganda and 'recruitment' are mainly aimed at psychologically unstable individuals with the goal of pushing them over the edge and committing a lone wolf type of attack.

    If they actually want to recruit someone to be trained and be a part of a coordinated plot, they will not make first contact online, even in the west, let alone in China with the government now openly confirming to them that all communications are tracked.

    --
    "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
  41. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Phone numbers are traceable. This do not prevent someone from having two phones and only a single SIM card. (And therefore only one phone number.)

    So you walk around with the government-approved phone with the spy-app, and only use it for asking "whats for dinner today" and such. A fine phone to present at cop checkpoints. At home, you extract the SIM card and put it in the other phone that has no spy app. There, you read illegal material and nobody know.

    Next up: chinese are known for pirating anything - if it pays. It is probably easy to make an app that looks exactly like the spying app - but it doesn't actually spy. Just a screendump-based copy of the UI for the real spy app. When asked to upload "file checksums", it quietly skips whatever files you want it to skip - or replace the ckecsums with "known good" ones.

  42. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by DarkOx · · Score: 1

    China does not have open society with free practice of religion. Ask and missionary who has traveled there in recent decades. The Churches are filled with government minders.

    I can't imagine the mosques would be different especially in light of the fact that the PRC's authority is probably much more greatly threaten by its Islamic population than their domestic Christian groups.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  43. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The markets in Kashgar will be full of grey import phones from Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan. The real terrorists will have ways to easily avoid this as always. The point is to harass the ordinary citizens to assert Han superiority over the region.

  44. Re: multiple & burner phones, multiple partiti by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sim card maybe.
    Mobile phones are on any street corner.

  45. LOL ignorant fool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL ignorant fool, it's always been the other way around. Minorities are excluded from the 1 child policy, and the policy is over now anyway.

  46. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by Kiuas · · Score: 1

    I can't imagine the mosques would be different especially in light of the fact that the PRC's authority is probably much more greatly threaten by its Islamic population than their domestic Christian groups.

    I fully agree. However my point was just to highlight that the enemy is not exactly stupid when it comes to electronic monitoring. I mean, the game theory to this is quite simple in China: try to recruit someone online and you're very likely to get locked up. The risk is high even doing it in person because as you say they're probably watching most of the communities, but that risk is still smaller than trying to recruit strangers from the net.

    --
    "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
  47. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    The phone itself is traceable. As others have noted, you must show government-issued ID to buy one in China.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  48. Saudi Arabia by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 2

    I've argued against the Saudis before, even pretty recently. But, they're at least ideologically opposed to the Islamic State. But I've also read that one of bin Laden's goals was to drive this precise wedge between Saudi Arabia and the US, so this all becomes muddled very quickly. That, and our attempts at regime change have not been wildly successful. Most Americans know Iran as "some Muslim country that hates us," and don't seem to realize that the reason for that is that we overthrew their democratically-elected government and installed a brutal dictator to protect Anglo-American oil interests there.

    So generally it's complicated. I don't know how much we can blame the nonviolent Wahhabists for the violent Wahhabists. We would probably rather have the stable government and their supply of oil than try to set anything else up. Either way, it's a bad situation, but there aren't a lot of good options for changing it.

    --
    Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
    1. Re:Saudi Arabia by dbIII · · Score: 2

      But, they're at least ideologically opposed to the Islamic State

      Perhaps you should look into where it came from and how it came to be so well armed and well funded. After you've done so you may come to a very different conclusion.
      IMHO Trump's largest foreign policy mistake is to take the Saudi side (the guys that wouldn't let us have a base) against Qatar (our best allies in the middle east - the ones who actually let us have a base in their country). Qatar is giving us plenty of "material support" against I.S. while the Saudis seems to still be feeding the other side.

    2. Re:Saudi Arabia by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      I think there's plenty of room to criticize the non-violent Wahhabists for using rhetoric that is so easily used as justification by the violent ones. Are they less bad than the violent ones? Certainly. But that doesn't mean they're exempt from blame.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    3. Re:Saudi Arabia by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 1

      I tend to agree, but I'd like to talk more with some Saudi Wahhabists before reaching more conclusions on this issue. Your sig seems both insightful and appropriate to this topic.

      --
      Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
    4. Re:Saudi Arabia by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 2

      At this point I feel like I no longer have a good handle on this subject. It seems fairly complex. I'd definitely appreciate any information that you had to hand. There seems to be a lot of propaganda flying in every direction. I'd really like to get a good handle on what [a] the average Muslim in {S.A., Iran, Indonesia} thinks about ISIS, on what [b] the clerical opinion is about ISIS in those countries, and definitely any reliable accounts of money movements to ISIS, Al Qaeda, and other extremist Salafists/Wahhabists.

      ISIS does represent something of an existential threat to the Saudi Arabian kingdom. Generally I tend to think that most existing Islamic governments are probably going to oppose attempts to establish a caliphate. That individual Saudis rebel can't really be denied -- no one has forgotten UBL and company -- but it seems illogical to suppose that the government as a whole supports them. I believe that it is also relevant to this topic to note that Qatar is home to Al-Jazeera, which doesn't bode well for objective reporting.

      The issue of the military base seems like a distraction. We did have a base in S.A., and lots of people were upset about this, including UBL, who gave it as a reason for 9/11. I don't think you're arguing that we should reopen that base. It could be argued on the same principles that the base in Qatar is also a bad idea. Generally, our attempts at regime change and peacekeeping have been interpreted as wholesale violations of autonomy in the region, and honestly, they're not wrong.

      To me Islam seems like an ironic punishment for believing in Islam, and I think that our foreign policy goals should be encouraging Islamic republicanism (as opposed to caliphates/autocratic states). Whatever the solutions, it gives me no pleasure to suggest that the least evil option is to work with the existing governments. If you have good reasons for preferring one government over the other, though, do let me know.

      --
      Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
    5. Re:Saudi Arabia by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

      Totally fair; it is a complex issue, and nuance will be important, especially if we're trying to change the situation rather than understand it.

      Thank you - I wish that, especially in today's political climate, more people took the time to listen.

      If you're interested in conversations about contemporary Islam, I suggest reading stuff by Maajid Nawaz. He's a moderate liberal Muslim who used to be a jihadist, and has a unique perspective on things.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
    6. Re:Saudi Arabia by dbIII · · Score: 2

      ISIS does represent something of an existential threat to the Saudi Arabian kingdom

      Most definitely not. Kind of the exact opposite since it's spreading the views of a faction of the Saudis. It's a bit of a proxy war between the Saudis and Iran.

      I'd definitely appreciate any information that you had to hand

      I think you and everyone else interested needs a book instead of a few small web articles since it's been snowballing for many years. There are many. The ones I would have recommended are a bit dated (and written by a guy who is critical of the current Israeli government in other books so I'd get flamed - ESR even made up a word for him!) so I'd suggest choosing from one of the large number of recent ones.

      The issue of the military base seems like a distraction

      No, it shows us who our allies really are.

      To me Islam seems like an ironic punishment for believing in Islam

      The situation had no more to do with Islam than Charles Manson has to do about Christianity. It's faction versus faction and they all happen to use their faith as the excuse for what is really about control.

    7. Re: Saudi Arabia by aliquis · · Score: 1

      IS is against them because of the royalties.

      They are against IS because they are royalties (rulers, and they want to remain so.)

    8. Re: Saudi Arabia by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Which dictator?

      I thougt the rich merchants opinion was to copy and close in on the west but eventually the Islamists won and then murdered and prevented the opposition?

      Possibly through democracy whereas the pro-western / liberal / progressive person may not have been / weaker / would need to read up ...

    9. Re: Saudi Arabia by aliquis · · Score: 1

      The Muslims in Iran are part of the coalitin fighting IS.

      But that's because they are Shia whereas IS are Sunni.

      I guess great Iran or Ottoman empire would had been fine if either copied the west as well or we built up superior military and kicked them out.

    10. Re: Saudi Arabia by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Jordan and Tunisia are more pro-west.

    11. Re: Saudi Arabia by aliquis · · Score: 1

      There's a difference in wahhabism and religious leadership and the ruling over Muslims by Saud family.

    12. Re: Saudi Arabia by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Shouldnt the workers own it whereas now the state own it and redistribute wealth aka socialism?

      Then again to cover all capacity and allow for controlling of all protection doesn't it kinda have to be larger cooperative including all?

    13. Re:Saudi Arabia by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 2

      Most definitely not. Kind of the exact opposite since it's spreading the views of a faction of the Saudis.

      No, the House of Saud is not interested in giving up Mecca and Medina, and especially not to some group that thinks they're going to be the next caliphate.

      You're certainly inviting flaming by mentioning ESR to me, especially in connection to politics. I'll skip the anti-Zionist screeds if it's the same to you. I have read a number of books on the history of Islam and the region. I could certainly use more, but I'd rather have more current information about trends.

      We don't have allies in the region, just more problems. It's not like any of them are going to leap to defend us, we just use them for our own ends, mostly for lack of alternative.

      The situation had no more to do with Islam than Charles Manson has to do about Christianity.

      I'm not sure which situation you mean, but IS is absolutely fighting a religious war. And I think we can dispense with analogies here.

      --
      Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
    14. Re: Saudi Arabia by unixisc · · Score: 2

      Right, so it's not socialism in that sense i.e. worker ownership of everything. It's more akin to government controlling and distributing everything to ensure everybody is prosperous, not that everybody is equal. A workable solution when they had an essential resource that the rest of the world had to have, and when oil used to be anything above $30 a barrel. But today, since alternative energy has emerged and grown to unprecedented levels, and alternate sources of oil like fracking in the US has emerged, oil is not only at a record low, but is likely to stay that way.

      So whereas in the past, the Saudis had enough cash to pay off all their citizens, finance mosques just about anywhere & everywhere in the world, financially prop up regimes in any country they wished, like Yemen, and finance Jihadist groups anywhere they wished, like the Taliban in Afghanistan, things are no longer as rosy. As I mentioned elsewhere in this page, they have their hands full managing a civil war in Yemen, propping up a Sunni sultan in a majority Shia island in Bahrein, bankrolling their Islamic Front puppets in Syria, providing aid to Egypt, which is a major power supportive of an already stretched Saudi military busy in Yemen, and fending off Iranian machinations in the region. For their survival, they have to keep funding their citizens as well as their wars in their neighborhood w/ decreasing income from oil. When that's their predicament, financing mosques in remote places of the world is the last thing on their minds

    15. Re: Saudi Arabia by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Protection? Was supposed to be production. (in my own / GP post.)

      Why does the shitty Samsung web-browser auto-replace words if it's so horribly bad in choosing the right one? Complete garbage.

      worker ownership of everything

      Worker ownership would be communism.

      It's more akin to government controlling and distributing everything to ensure everybody is prosperous

      Socialism and communism definitely doesn't make everyone prosperous.

      not that everybody is equal

      Making them more equal including economically actually is the goal.

    16. Re: Saudi Arabia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Friends of the king are more prosperous. Hmm.

    17. Re:Saudi Arabia by dbIII · · Score: 2

      I'll skip the anti-Zionist screeds

      Criticism of a politician who later ended up on trial for corruption was the "anti-Zionist screed" in that case :( Hence not mentioning Fisk's excellent book that barely mentions Israel at all - there are plenty of others.

      No, the House of Saud

      You are treating it as monolithic and not the factional medieval basket case that it is. They did most of the setting up of Daash and appear to still be funneling money to them, as are people in power in Turkey.

      but IS is absolutely fighting a religious war

      That's what their propaganda says, but it fighting even less of a religious war than the IRA was. They are fighting people of their own religion.

  49. Re: multiple & burner phones, multiple partiti by umghhh · · Score: 1

    Not sure that helps but you need a proper identification to buy prepaid cards in Germany. German government may install spyware on your computers so your permission is irrelevant here. OC Germans will not hang you (or whatever they do in China) so at least this should comfort you if you live in Germany. This may change however. If Germany does it how many other Western countries does it too?

  50. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by dbIII · · Score: 1

    "Burner" phones are an American thing. Getting a sim card or whatever without valid ID is unlikely in most of the world, and of course China brings that up an extra authoritarian notch.
    What's the use of a second phone if it's still in your name?

  51. You really wrote that? by dbIII · · Score: 1

    But Japan has mostly kept religious terrorism out of its country

    Seriously? You never heard of the cult with Sarin gas? It's just about the most famous bit of religious terrorism ever.

    1. Re:You really wrote that? by piojo · · Score: 1

      I should have said "Islamic terrorism" rather than "religious". I have the standard liberal tendency to try to single out the problems of Islam as little as possible, but it sometimes backfires and makes me say something stupid.

      --
      A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
  52. good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    subhumans should not have human rights

    makes total sense

    kidding, all muslims are cool and stuff

  53. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by DarkOx · · Score: 1

    I take your meaning. I just caution people, if you have not been to the non-touristy parts of China, or closely worked with anyone on the ground in China that is on the Party's s*it list, its not like TV.

    You can't understand what goes on there in the context of how things go in the United States or much of Europe. Most people don't realize just how effective the Chinese really are at being thought police.

    You read a few articles how everyone there uses a VPN and think the folks in the government are a bunch of rubes who have no idea what goes on just beyond their office windows. This is not the case. They have just become masterful at 1) identifying what is real threat to their authority and what isn't 2) applying pressure in the places that matter and letting folks get away with a little of this and little of that other places; but only a 'little'.

    Its a delicate balance of keeping people respectful and fearful but not so angry and frustrated they decided 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' like we saw all across the Arab spring. Where groups that don't like each other, never the less "teamed" long enough to riot and topple some governments, before going back to attacking each other.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  54. same Saudis? by unixisc · · Score: 2

    But only certain branches (mustly Saudi) Muslims believe that Jihad should be violent. Why do we support Saudi again? Why do we allow Saudi funding of mosques abroad?

    Actually, no. There are no versions of Islam that prohibit violent jihad, since Mohammed himself clearly stated that violent jihad is the highest form of service to allah.

    I generally agree w/ most criticisms of Saudi Arabia, but since President Trump's visit, they have been shifting their policies, and taking a hard line not against moderate Muslims or anti-Muslims, but against Jihadists. You mentioned Wahabism: the only other Wahabi country in the world is Qatar, which has been the focus of criticism from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Emirates & Bahrein. Saudi Arabia is also unique in being critical of Turkey, which has been proving emphatically that it's a bigger adversary of the US than even Russia! Most recently, Turkish military did their own beheadings of Kurdish troops in Syria (not ISIS), and leaked the locations of secret US military bases in Syria. Somewhat surprisingly, the US hasn't chosen to call Turkey out on that, but the Saudis have.

    I also wonder whether the Saudis have had any cash to give mosques anywhere lately. As Hugh Fitzgerald recently noted:

    Meanwhile, the Muslim Arabs are more divided among themselves that at any time in their history. They are preoccupied with their own problems. In the Gulf, Saudi Arabia and several Gulf sheikdoms (U.A.E., Bahrain), as well as Egypt, are relentlessly pressuring Qatar, which they charge with supporting the Muslim Brotherhood. For the Saudis, the Muslim Brotherhood practices an inadmissible form of “terrrorism” because it has repeatedly shown itself a threat to the Saudi regime. In 2003, the Brotherhood attacked the Saudi rulers for allowing American forces into the Kingdom; the Saudis were even more shocked when the Muslim Brotherhood helped overthrow Mubarak in Egypt, for this was interpreted as a potential future threat to the Saudi rulers as well. Also unacceptable to the Saudis are Qatar’s continued close ties with Iran, that go beyond the economic links naturally resulting from the fact that Qatar and Iran share the largest natural gas field in the world. And Al Jazeera, based in and funded by Qatar, reports critically on the Saudi regime, as it does on other Arab rulers (though of course exempting those in Qatar itself); some of this news is highly embarrassing to the Saudis and other ruling families. In late June, the Saudis, the U.A.E, Bahrain, and Egypt cut diplomatic ties and severed all their land, sea, and air links to Qatar, and made thirteen demands. These included ending all support for “terrorism” (i.e., the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, ISIS, among others), expelling known terrorists who had been living in Qatar, and stop paying ransom to Al-Qaeda and ISIS for kidnapped Qatari nationals. As for its ties to Iran, Qatar was told to close the Iranian diplomatic missions in Qatar and the Qatari missions in Iran, to expel members of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard, and to cut off all military and intelligence cooperation with Iran. Furthermore, all trade and commerce with Iran by Qatar must strictly comply with US and international sanctions. And Qatar was told to stop funding Shi’ite militias in Iraq.

    Another demand was for the Turkish airbase in Qatar to be shut down, presumably because Erdogan, though a Sunni, has been too friendly to Iran for the Saudis to accept.

    ...

    Saudi Arabia is the busiest of all, engaged on every front. It is leading the campaign of Gulf states against Qatar and the Muslim Brotherhood. It is propping up the Sunni ruler of Bahrain, keeping his Shi’a population under control. It is fighting a proxy war ag

  55. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So in the end this is just a way of making sure they have the ability to jail anyone at any time for any reason, which they've had all along, but usually it's been a slightly longer process, this seems to be just a step to make it easier and faster.

    If you're willing to demand government agents in every "citizen"'s back pocket and plant evidence against them, I don't think it's much of a stretch for you to say: "You're in jail, (or worse), because I said so."

    In any case, they don't need a reason. They'll do what they want with you, and then they'll just claim that the agent in your back pocket coughed up something incriminating and everyone will believe the claim because it came from an "Authority".

    If anything, it's probably just a cash grab (sell the collected info to the highest bidder) or it's for espionage. (The "we're steeling your company secrets" kind.) AKA. It targets the "You're more useful to us on the street" kind of people.

  56. Only under duress (e.g. risk of torture, death) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your characterization of this as Muslims are allowed to deceive is completely false.

    While it is true that the minority Shia sect in Islam practice Taqiya (dissimulation) on a daily basis (for historical reasons of survival as a minority)

    On the other hand, Taqiya does not exist within the majority Sunnis (90% of a total population of 1.6 billion Muslims). They are not supposed to hide their faith unless they are under duress, such as risk of torture, or death; or when in war.

    Here is the verse of Quran 16:106 that says this.

    And here is commentary on that verse, which explains that it is not a license to deceive.

  57. Syrian civil war by unixisc · · Score: 2

    But, they're at least ideologically opposed to the Islamic State

    Perhaps you should look into where it came from and how it came to be so well armed and well funded. After you've done so you may come to a very different conclusion. IMHO Trump's largest foreign policy mistake is to take the Saudi side (the guys that wouldn't let us have a base) against Qatar (our best allies in the middle east - the ones who actually let us have a base in their country). Qatar is giving us plenty of "material support" against I.S. while the Saudis seems to still be feeding the other side.

    Saudi Arabia is not one of the former funders of the Islamic State. They have their own factions that they back - the Islamic Front, which was a coalition of 7 Islamic parties from various parts of Syria. It is opposed to ISIS, the Baathist regime as well as the US backed Free Syrian Army. Problem is that aside from the Kurdish SDF/Rojava, all those factions are Sunni Jihadist groups, while the Baathists are Alawites allied to Hizbullah & Iran.

    In addition to that, the Saudis have been too nose deep in problems of their own to effectively support Jihad against the West. Aside from their dispute w/ Qatar, they are fighting proxy wars against Iran in both Syria and Yemen. In Syria, their supporters - the Islamic Front - has been too damaged thanks to both Russian bombardment as well as Hizbullah & Iranian military activity. In Yemen, the Saudis are involved in the full blown war against the Iranian backed Shi'ite Houthis, and have even enlisted troops from their allies, like UAE in this conflict. Qatar too was a part of this alliance until recently, when the Saudis had them removed. In Bahrein, the Saudis are desperately supporting the Hanafa emir/sultan from being ousted by the majority Shi'ite population of the country and becoming an open ally of Iran. Oh, and while all this has been happening, oil prices have been plummeting, so that it's no longer a cheap expertise for the Saudis to both bribe their own citizens not to revolt, while keeping all these neighborhood fires in Bahrein, Yemen & Syria in check.

    OTOH, Qatar is one of those countries that has deftly played both sides of this conflict. On one hand, they allied w/ the US to be the headquarters of CENTCOM, thereby making themselves indispensable. OTOH, they've been supporters of the Jihadists since day 1. On one occasion, the CIA spotted Osama w/ a member of Qatar's ruling al-Thani family, and could not take any action since the Pentagon/State Department did not want to mar relations w/ Qatar by killing a member of the al-Thanis.

    Besides that, Qatar has also supported Hamas, Hizbullah, & the Muslim Brotherhood while al Jazeera, the state owned TV network, used to broadcast those Osama videos last decade. Besides that, Qatar has close ties to Iran, which certainly throws into question how reliable an ally they are of the West. That alone should have made the US raise red flags against them, rather than try & mediate b/w them & the Saudis. While al Jazeera doesn't dare expose any misdeeds of the al-Thanis, they have been happily reporting critically on the Saudis, the Egyptians, the Emiratis & others in the region. Also, Turkey has been playing a role that is anything but at odds w/ the US - most recently exposing the locations of secret US bases in Syria and beheading Kurdish fighters allied to the US.

    The US is in a bind, since it would be an expensive proposition to move CENTCOM out of Qatar and to another country in the neighborhood. They wouldn't wanna pick Saudi Arabia, since that was one of the starting issues for al Qaeda. They could pick Kuwait, but it's unclear that Kuwait is any friendlier to the US than Saudi Arabia: 1991 is a distant memory. Also, w/ Congress pressurizing the president to keep alive the rivalry w/ Putin, the US

    1. Re: Syrian civil war by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Israel is our only ally there... a great place for centcom would be just inside the fence.

    2. Re: Syrian civil war by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Israel is not our ally. Cut off the billions in foreign aid and military hardware and see if they are still friendly to us. Remember the USS Liberty, Israel will stab the US in the back whenever it is convenient to them.

    3. Re:Syrian civil war by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 1

      I feel like I often take issue with you and your views, or at least as often as not, but thanks for writing this. I think the analysis re:Qatar is probably depressingly accurate.

      One more thing that the US should do - support & recognize an independent Kurdistan should the Kurds vote this year for their own separate state.

      That would be only fair for having thrown them under the bus repeatedly, yes.

      --
      Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
    4. Re: Syrian civil war by unixisc · · Score: 1

      They had been friendly even during the Obama years, when you had the most anti-Israel administration in history

    5. Re:Syrian civil war by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Your GP post - the only thing I take issue w/ is the use of 'Wahabi'. This is something that spans way beyond that. Both Saudi Arabia & Qatar are Wahabi kingdoms (which is a Hanbali implementation of Islamic jurisprudence). But the others in the Saudi alliance - while Bahrain's al Khalifa family does follow Wahabism, the majority of the population is Shia & follows the Jafari doctrines. UAE follows the Maliki school, while Egypt follows both the Hanafi as well as the Shafii schools. In short, one can't pigeonhole this as an intra-Wahabi fight.

      My reading of this - ISIS has beaten everyone in the department of fanaticism, and there are only 2 ways that the Saudis could beat it. One would be to be even more fanatical, but already, during Obama, relations w/ the US were at their worst and Iran had been horning into not just Syria, but into Arabia as well - Bahrain, Yemen and even Saudi Arabia's own Shia minority. Once the Trump administration came in, w/ plans to ally w/ Russia against not just ISIS, but potentially all Sunni Arabs, there was no way the Saudis could go by their own playbook. So when Trump visited Riyadh, they seized the opportunity to form a new alliance against Jihadi ideology - never mind how heretical it sounded - and make the US an 'ally' of theirs once again. And attempting to gain brownie points by not just allowing a direct flight from Riyadh to Jerusalem, but also throwing Qatar & Turkey under the bus.

      Also, the only thing I find depressing is CENTCOM being there in Qatar, and therefore, Tillerson trying to mediate b/w Qatar and the other Arabs. The quagmire that the Saudis are in is actually a delight to watch - in Yemen, in Bahrain (where they're doing what they can to prop up the Hanafas), against Qatar vis a vis the blocade, in Syria where their puppets have been decimated, and finally, their own economy which is on the verge of tanking due to both collapsed oil prices as well as having to pay off their citizens. End result: they can no longer afford to finance mosques from Dearborn to Auckland

    6. Re:Syrian civil war by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 1

      Book recommendations?

      --
      Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
    7. Re:Syrian civil war by unixisc · · Score: 1

      On what - on ISIS, or Islam, or the civil war?

      For Islam, Robert Spencer's books have worked for me, and I've also followed Ali Sina's Faith Freedom, as well as a group called Islam Watch. Haven't followed any books on ISIS or the war - just followed the news there from different sources. For the Syrian civil war, have followed al Bawaba, which is an Arab portal that covers the region. Aside from pretending that Israel is 'Palestine', it is interesting to follow how they analyze intra-Arab or intra-Islamic conflicts

  58. Saudi Arabia by unixisc · · Score: 2

    Saudi Arabia is a command economy, and every Arab citizen (one has to be Muslim to be a citizen of that country) is a welfare recipient from the government. In other words, that country is the closest thing to a Communist country that one can imagine in terms of government owning all property and paying the citizens. The slaves you describe are the expatriate labor from various countries, be it poorer Arab & Muslim countries, such as Egypt, Pakistan, Indonesia, or from other non-Muslim countries such as Philippines, Sri Lanka & India. Those people are SOL: their passports are confiscated by their 'employers', so that they can't even quit if they don't like the working conditions.

    That said, the falling price of oil and its relative irrelevance compared to the last century ensures that their days are numbered!

  59. Uighurs by unixisc · · Score: 1

    The Uighurs are Turkic people - similar to their neighbors in Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan. If they became independent, it would spur Jihadist movements throughout Turkistan - 4 of the 5 stans in the region. Both the Chinese as well as the Russians have a very good reason to curb them. I normally loathe the Chicoms and oppose them wherever, but not in this one case.

    Also keep in mind that China also has Hui Muslims: Hui are Han Chinese who follow Islam

  60. Re: Only under duress (e.g. risk of torture, death by dfenstrate · · Score: 1

    Once you let lying into your system as a legitimate behavior, all bets are out the window. That's one of the many reasons Christians are not given such license. And if you'll lie about one thing, why wouldn't you lie about another? See Taqiyaa about Taqiyya http://raymondibrahim.com/2014...

    --
    Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
  61. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by rtb61 · · Score: 1

    So say wonderful things about your government when you arrange a private meeting with your buddies, with no phones in the room to bitch about your government. You still get to fabricate a government approved alter ego, which defeats the purpose of the part time listening in.

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  62. Re:multiple & burner phones, multiple partitio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you really think Chinese censors are not aware of such things?

    Speak in code. The Chinese cannot work around that

  63. This article on the topic may interest you by dbIII · · Score: 1

    Here's something from the news site crikey.com.au "Yes, Australia's best bud Saudi Arabia is actively funding terrorism":
    http://bit.ly/2tO8kKc
    It should be the full article. If not you can have read the full thing if you provide an email address and choose a password for a free two week trial of the site.

    1. Re:This article on the topic may interest you by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 1

      That article is interesting but doesn't seem to give much detail about how exactly Saudi money ends up in terrorist pockets. It's not clear to me that building mosques == funding terror. The author seems unconcerned with objectivity.

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      Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
  64. US allies by unixisc · · Score: 1

    Absolutely true! Unfortunately, the deep state in both the State Department & the Pentagon believe that they have to pander to Sunni Arab sensibilities, and therefore avoid policies that would further US interests, like setting up CENTCOM in Israel & completely ignoring the Arabs, supporting an independent Kurdish state, and so on.

  65. Re: Only under duress (e.g. risk of torture, death by dfenstrate · · Score: 1

    As part of a qualitative evaluation of Islam vs. Christianity, we can also compare your statement on the permissibity of Muslim lies to the direction to Christians in Revelations c.2 v.10b:
    "Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life."

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    Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.