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China Forces Muslim Minority To Install Spyware On Their Phones (bleepingcomputer.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bleeping Computer: Chinese authorities in the province of Xinjiang are forcing locals of the Uyghur Muslim minority to install an app on their phones that will allow the government to scan their device for "terrorist propaganda," local media reports. In reality, the app creates MD5 hashes for the user's files and matches them against a database of known terrorist content. The app also makes copies of the user's Weibo and WeChat databases and uploads it to a government server, along with the user's IMEI, IMSI, and WiFi login information. The app is called Jingwang (Citizen Safety) and was developed by police forces from Urumqi, Xinjiang's capital. Authorities launched the app in April, and also included the ability to report suspicious activity to the police. At the start of July, Xinjiang officials started sending WeChat messages in Uyghur and Chinese to locals, asking them to install the app or face detainment of up to 10 days. Police have also stopped people on the street to check if they installed the app. Several were detained for refusing to install it. Locals are now sharing the locations of checkpoints online, so others can avoid getting arrested.
Is a duty of all Muslims. It is written in the Qur'an.
Praise be to Allah.
Erm... you should know that the Uighurs are not foreigners to the land but natives.
They have been Muslims for centuries and before the formation of the PRC were semi autonomous.
However they are seen as a threat as they are not part of the Han ethnic group that the current chinese government comes from.
Well, yes, but to be fair, they're part of a religion that states that Han ethnic group should convert or die, and if they refuse to convert the Islamists are allowed to ignore their laws and have a religious obligation to screw them over.
Muhammad's teachings. Not even once.
Um, maybe it's the man-dress, AK-47 and car packed with 200 lbs of ANFO.
Just sayin'.
I wonder how many of them will get duplicate phones, and how hard it is to conceal the real one, or have a duplicate set of SIM cards to mask your identity. Pretty draconian.. This will make people at lot more aware and vigilant about their data security.. I wonder how hard it is to partition your phone such that you have a factory reset on one, and the government spyware app on the other, such that you can easily switch the two. e.g. have the program jump to another address in flash to find an alternative main().. I've done a lot of this kind of work for fail-safe firmware uploading, but don't know much about the flash system/OS of a phone...
However they are seen as a threat as they are not part of the Han ethnic group that the current chinese government comes from.
The larger problem is that even the Han arent safe. It's not a racism issue, its a rights issue. China is still very much totalitarian.
"His name was James Damore."
Bacon strips.
I'm living in this city. And yeah, they forced me to install their crazy china app. I deleted all my critical information such as photos from the phone before handed to the police.
This app is constantly sending my phone data to CN servers. I could filter them out using my VPN, but some of my friends are already caught by police for attemting "app decompile".
So I changed my phone. Install 2 OS on one phone.
1 is infected by china, and the other 1 is safe.
This system works like Veracrypt's Hidden OS. I made this for myself about 4 years ago.
You can switch OS1 and OS2 using smartphone's hardware button. I don't write details because I don't want chinese to fuck my phone.
I've already asked by the police to show me the app. When my phone was moved suddenly, it automatically switched to OS1.
Only I can use OS2.
Technology is not for a noob. Fight against them, digitally.
[nt]
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
MD5 has collisions like a mofo. Besides, this sure sounds like a universal, "we don't like this person and therefore they're a terrorist" type of situation. I would be interested in knowing just what the application is capable of because I get the feeling they can remotely upload/delete whatever they want to/from your phone.
Seems like a legit reason to not have a smartphone.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
So were the tartan kilt wearing red heads speaking Tocharian who lived there a few thousand years ago. But you don't see many Celts shoving their clothing choices on you, or forcing you to speak their language in prayers.
I would be careful before you start defending someone just because they appear to be the underdog. That dog does bite.
Perhaps you've never heard of a guy named Saint Peter, who denied knowing Jesus Christ three times because he was afraid of the laws and/or rules of this world.
See, John 18:13-27
You are welcome on my lawn.
This might be the only time when it is worth it using Windows Phone. No one ever develops apps for that.
So we here in the US are going to publicly denounce this, right? Any minute now right? Any. Minute. Now.
And yeah, it does kinda piss me off that my country throws human rights out the window for cheap(ish) consumer goods. Especially when Motorola proved they could sell phones made in the US without slave labor profitably, just not _as_ profitably.... Meanwhile the Saudi's are getting ready to execute another batch of protestors. Crap.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Not just Muslims but all terrorists and troublemakers. College students and professors, hippies, hackers, union members, women, gays and anyone with an IQ above 70.
...omphaloskepsis often...
Is it a yellow six-pointed star?
(T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
At the end of the day, the easiest thing to do is have more than one phone. One at home and one for wandering about. One phone is safe and the other phone is a mobile alibi. The more incompetent authorities rely on the alibi phone, the more you can use it to create the digital record of a model citizen. Much the same as with social network, why one identity on a social network, one for the public, perfect employee and one for private. Keep in mind the value of a alibi phone of having it and maintaining it, it's personal security worth in an authoritarian state, you definitely do not want to dick with it's function, just adjust your use of it to provide you the best benefit. It really is kind of pointless to do it publicly, it only really works if you do it like US customs does it, secretly. Do it publicly and the phone than serves the interest of questionable people who than use it to create a government approved alter ego of themselves, do it secretly like US customs and of course they are more likely to use that phone foolishly.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
What if you deny it? How can they prove what you believe (or not?)
You are a Muslim if you are on the List of Muslims.
If you deny it then you are a Denier that is on the List of Muslims.
Everyone on the List installs the Spyware. Deniers too.
You can be added to the List of Muslims at any time.
"His name was James Damore."
You've hit the nail on the head. This actually makes the position of the extremists arguably easier. Now you don't have to second guess whether or not your phone is being monitored, you can count on it and work around it. And the solution doesn't have to be fancy or technical: you just setup a set of code word/phrases via snail mail using everyday common phrases, and instead of sending "proceed with the next stage of the operation", you send "pick up milk and rice from the store".
Which is to say: the point of eavesdropping on potentially dangerous individuals is negated by the idiocy of asking these people to assist you in their own eavesdropping by installing the required software.
But the Chinese are not dumb enough to not realize this, which means the real cause of this is something else entirely: first it's a PR move to appease the populace by appearing to do 'something' to react to the threat, but more importantly this gives the authorities a convenient reason to detain anyone for 10 days. I mean, all they have to do is 'inspect' the phone and remove the app and BAM the guy's away for 10 days while you go through and mic his apartment and car, and if need be plant some evidence so that he can be jailed for longer. Or they can just change the log files they have from the apps to include something suspicious and arrest anyone on terrorism charges on that grounds. It's not like the chain of evidence in the Chinese system is reliable: they control the log and the phones, so that means you provably said what they claim you said, after all that's what the records show.
So in the end this is just a way of making sure they have the ability to jail anyone at any time for any reason, which they've had all along, but usually it's been a slightly longer process, this seems to be just a step to make it easier and faster.
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
If ISIS had a known presence in the USA like this, our government wouldn't be so open about it - they'd just spy - to hell with the Fourth Amendment (It's JUST a piece of goddamn paper!)
And we're not including the vigilantes that would do god knows what to them
So, you think ISIS would deserve to be tolerated if it had a presence in the US ?
Good luck with that, you clueless idiot.
These ISIS fuckers BEHEAD people.
The only treatment they deserve is annihilation.
The larger problem is that even the Han arent safe. It's not a racism issue, its a rights issue.
Bullcrap. It is racism, and that is very much the "larger problem". Most of the racism doesn't even come from the government. It comes from the Han immigrants to Xinjiang. But in disputes between the Han and Uyghurs, the government will always side with the Han. If you walk down the street in Urumqi and look at the "Help Wanted" signs in the windows, 90% of them will say "Han Only" . The same is true for rental housing, and even schools. The Uyghurs are economically marginalized, and the government is complicit in keeping them that way.
FYI That region was a protectorate of the Han Dynasty (206 BC–220 AD) well before the Uyghur migration into region region after the fall of the Uyghur Khaganate in the year 842. To claim they are "native" ignores the ebbs and flows and history of the various Chinese dynasties.
Islam is not just a religion, it is a legal structure, where atheism is punishable by death. Communism is incompatible with any faith. Now we see the two meet. There will be no winners here.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
The fuck? You just wrote a defense of ISIS, and claimed to be disgusted by humanity?
You're talking about the Muslims who, just as an example, were condemned for crimes against humanity after they posted a video of themselves cutting out a baby from a pregnant woman, then raping the fetus.
You are a massive sub-human piece of shit.
16:106. Whoever disbelieved in Allah after his belief, except him who is forced thereto and whose heart is at rest with Faith but such as open their breasts to disbelief, on them is wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a great torment.
some karma... and kinda lukewarm about it.
Will likely be one where everyone discusses their differences in a sane a rational manner and everyone will go their own way the wiser for it. I can't wait to see how enlightened we all will be at the end of it.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Are you suggesting to nuke them from orbit because it's the only way to be sure?
#DeleteFacebook
This is NOT targeted at muslims. It is targeted at Uyghurs, which are an ethnicity, not a religion. Other muslims, such as the Hui minority are not being targeted.
I can't give you my phone model specifically because information could be used to target me.
Jailbreak or non-jailbreak, it's free. My device work. It's a very small device.
TOOP is not an app. It's a small device with switch.
You have to open the smartphone and replace the part.
(Hardware key)+(some other actions)+(surrounding condition)=Switch_OS_Trigger
I'm a repairman. My work is extremely clean and I'm proud of it. Nobody notice the phone is rigged or not.
Where did you get that idea from, you ignorant sack of shit?
China already has far more terrorism than America does. This action is in response to repeated attacks at train stations, schools, and even a coal mine. Most violence has been in Xinjiang, but some incidents involving Uyghurs have occurred as far away as Shenzhen and Kunming.
Suddenly the number of dissidents jumped. Couldn't be anything with a newly missed iff bunch of people now feeling whatever freedoms they had squashed even further? Even the most innocent can lash back out they feel they are being treated unfairly or like caged animals. .
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Let's see.
He has a distance friend who knew someone from the China authority.
Pass! Next Please!
Calm down, son. This is slashdot, not YouTube.
"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city." -- Deuteronomy 22:23-24
What's a Smartphone? I need App? Oh! Apple! I do know what an apple is. I have one right here.
/no offense
What if you deny it?
Then any Muslim within earshot will kill you. As far as the Chinese government is concerned the problem is solved on their end either way.
How can they prove what you believe (or not?)
If they are looking to check that their spyware is installed on your phone then I doubt they care what you believe. There are no rights in China. Denial will not be enough to free you from surveillance.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
If you think about that for just a moment you should realize how silly your question is. A person that truly believes in their religion isn't going to go and deny it, because adhering to their religion is more important than adhering to the laws and/or rules of this world. Reasonably, If one denim, then they clearly aren't passionate enough about any belief they may happen to have to be liable to pose a threat on account of any such beliefs.
Taqiya (Arabic: taqiyyah, literally "prudence, fear")[1][2] is an Islamic term which refers to precautionary dissimulation or denial of religious belief and practice in the face of persecution.[3][4][1][5]
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Jewish law.
Yes, because a fictional character in Christian mythology is an indicator of how real Muslim exteremists act in real life.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Assuming this guy's posts are real... all I can say is, stay safe man. It is a dangerous game.
In the USA, the NSA will install it for you, and they will "update" your encryption so there is another master key...... just in case you loose yours. Yes, I am being sarcastic, but 20 years ago who would have believed that this is close to being the truth.
Where does "Jewish Law" end and "Christian Law" begin exactly? It seems the prevalent practice is for Christians to pick and choose whatever parts they like and say the Bible instructs them thus, and any parts they don't like... "that was just for the Jews not us".
After all, all the 'bible against the gays' stuff is from the same sections that outlaws bacon and endorses stoning rape victims who were too afraid, too confused, or too drunk to cry out...
Yeah, but now he's Heaven's bouncer, and can deny access to the VIP section to whomever he wants and gets to date the strippers.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Perhaps you've never heard of a guy named Saint Peter, who denied knowing Jesus Christ three times because he was afraid of the laws and/or rules of this world.
See, John 18:13-27
But then he was crucified upside down for not renouncing him. What's your point?
I'm an atheist so I really don't give a shit anyway.
Actually Muslims are specifically allowed by the Koran and Hadith to lie about being Muslim in order to save their hides. See Taqiyaa, kitman, and the various other officially sanctioned types of deception.
Christians are expected to proclaim their faith though it may cost their lives, and many have done so.
Another poster mentions St. Peter as denying his faith, but those three denials occurred four days before the capstone of the Christian faith was put in place- the ressurection of Christ.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
It's all fiction, Brent,
Anyway, history is full of examples of fervent believers who denied their faith. Maybe you've never heard of the Marranos (I'm pretty sure you haven't) who were Jews who lived as Christians to avoid the Spanish Inquisition, or the many Jews who pretended to be Christian to avoid the Nazis. These were most assuredly not fictional characters.
I've put together a little reading assignment for you, with references, because it appears your history education is a bit lacking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
You are welcome on my lawn.
My point is that history is full of examples of devout believers who denied their faith to evade the laws or the Inquisition or the gas chambers or the lash. Faith is fungible.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Let me help you out. But before I go any further you are correct, there are many Christians who seem to like to cherry pick what they like out of Jewish texts.
Christianity is called Christianity because it's adherents follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. You will find those teachings in a set of books called the New Testament.
Now once again, there are a LOT of Christians who are unable to understand they are to follow Christ's teachings because some of the Jewish texts are so darn "convenient." Take the Ten Commandments as an example of Jewish teachings that are nice to have in your back pocket when you want to look down in judgement on someone else.
Add to that, the Jewish texts are in many instances bound together with the teachings of Christ. It's easy to get a bit confused.
Look, Christians are human. Individually they are in varying degrees fallible.
But, if you strictly look at the teachings of Christ I believe you will find a consistent set of principles that treat people fairly.
Personally I would like to see Christianity simply dump the Jewish texts. With the teachings of Christ they simply are not needed or particularly relevant.
You're assuming everybody starts out like some super-secret agent. If you're trying to recruit people to join your cause, you need feelers out there to find possible sympathizers. Even if you do the real talking offline, you've probably been in contact via phone or chat before that if nothing else then just to agree where and when to meet. It's metadata about who you have talked to. You make people afraid to say the wrong things. You make people afraid to agree with those who say it. You make the process slow and tedious. You make any act of rebellion be a small spark that'll fizzle. The Chinese government is too big to care about one lone wolf here and one wolf there. They just don't want anything big and organized and this is to pour sand in the machinery.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Well, it's worth noting that not only was he afraid for himself, but his entire faith was also starting to falter as well... a person whom he thought was more powerful than the world itself was being subjugated by it. My point stands, a person that really believes in their religion, particularly one that subscribes to a notion of spending eternity somewhere isn't about to deny it simply because of some possibility for earthly consequence. It's worth noting that Peter repented of the transgression, and did not repeat it thereafter. In his later years, he risked prison and death several times by speaking out in Jesus' name, and he eventually paid for it with his life.
Of course, that doesn't make anything that he believed true... it simply means that he believed it more than he believed that the consequences of this world were not of any significant importance compared to eternity. Given the belief system that he had, it as even a perfectly rational decision.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
apple and google need to ban this app!
So you are saying that the Ten Commandments don't mean anything to Christians.
Matthew 5:17-20. That is all. Paul's the one who's all gung-ho about dropping the 613 Mitzvot, not Jesus.
Islam is not a race.
Look, this policy is NOT being applied to muslims, it is being applied to Uyghurs REGARDLESS OF THEIR RELIGION. 80% of muslims in China are NOT Uyghurs, and these policies DO NOT apply to them. The largest majority muslim ethnicity in China are the Hui, who are well assimilated into Chinese society, mostly speak Mandarin, and often you wouldn't even know they are muslim until you see them skipping the pork dumplings at the all-you-can-eat buffet.
This policy is based on ethnicity.
It is NOT based on religion.
If you need this to be repeated a few more times, just ask.
Indeed. The Old Testament is really the story of the Jews, very much like the Ramayana is the story of the pandavas in India. The Old Testament is not relevant to non Jews and has no relevance to christians other than Jesus being born a Jew.
Everything that Christianity preaches is opposite to Jews from keeping kosher to having birth related religious affiliations to judging people etc
It seems a good idea to have two OS on the same smartphone. However, you missed a point that there is no such solution four years ago. So, be smarter when you want to have a better story for the naive.
"If ... Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die"
Where does "Jewish Law" end and "Christian Law" begin exactly?
Perhaps with the teachings of Christ, the "Christ" in "Christian"? In this particular case perhaps where Christ tells people to stop stoning sinners? ;-)
Christianity is also viewed with suspicion in China, but since Christ made a point of telling people to be Pacifists and obey Authority, the PRC is fine with followers of actual Christian doctrines.
No they are not. The Chinese Communist Party controls the clergy and injects political lessons.
"Catholicism, like all religions, has been permitted to operate only under the supervision of the State Administration for Religious Affairs. All worship must legally be conducted through state-approved churches belonging to the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association (CPA), which does not accept the primacy of the Roman Pontiff. In addition to overseeing the practice of the Catholic faith, the CPA espouses politically oriented objectives as well. Liu Bainian, chairman of the CPA and the Bishops Conference of the Catholic Church in China, stated in a 2011 interview that the church needed individuals who "love the country and love religion: politically, they should respect the Constitution, respect the law, and fervently love the socialist motherland.’’ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
I would suggest that those "believers" were not as devout as they may have claimed, or else they would not have denied their alleged beliefs. They claim to "believe", but in reality, the only do so at times when it is convenient for them, and are not, if you will forgive the expression, "religiously committed" to their beliefs. The Christian bible calls such people "lukewarm", and suggests an eternity for those people that is less than ideal if they do not change. It's my understanding that muslims are also promised a pleasant hereafter if they die for a righteous cause and in service to Allah... so again, the idea that one would deny their so-called faith on the simple grounds that they may face some worldly unpleasant consequence seems to run against the grain of some major religions that advocate the notion of an eternal hereafter.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
How do they know if you're Uyghurs then?
In China, your ethnicity is listed on your national ID card.
Ethnic minorities in China.
And we all know that. We all know that real Christians ignore the horrible parts of our holy book because we're humans, not monsters.
But for some reason we're all supposed to freak out because somebody else's holy book wouldn't make a good episode of Sesame Street.
Xenophobia isn't cool, man.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/...
#DeleteFacebook
Hey! I recently both broke and filled Mosaic law all on my own; and I don't even believe in any gods or other supernatural things.
How did I achieve this? It was easy. I did some work on the sabbath, and then I got stoned (several times).
This space unintentionally left blank.
You're making too fine a distinction if you compared them to another ethnic group which did a better job of assimilating. I don't know much about the Uyghurs--are you saying they don't speak much Mandarin and don't share culture with the rest of China? It sounds like the problem isn't traditional racism, but a conflict between cultures that don't like each other's lifestyle.
Not that that makes much of an argument in favor of Beijing's actions, though.
A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
It's not about racism, it's about anti-sedition.
The fact that the seditious happen to be ethnically different is irrelevant. The fact that they wear their ethnicity as an anti-chinese badge might be.
j'ai découvert une démonstration vraiment admirable (de ce théorème général) que cette si
I think you're being sarcastic. But Japan has mostly kept religious terrorism out of its country by simply not allowing many Muslims to immigrate, and not allowing construction of new mosques. It's not even particularly oppressive, unless a Muslim has his heart set on moving to Japan. Of course, the strategy of keeping Islam out entirely wouldn't work in a country that has a large established Muslim population, because it would be extremely oppressive.
A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
Even without the OT a lot of Christians still cherrypick. For example where did their Lord Jesus Christ say anything about homosexuals? The only statements in the NT were made by Paul, an apostle of Christ.
are you saying they don't speak much Mandarin and don't share culture with the rest of China?
Exactly. It is based on culture and ethnicity, and NOT on religion. If you promote separatism, you are going to get hammered, whether you are a muslim Uyghur or a buddhist Tibetan, and the punishment is going to be applied collectively.
China is not "anti-muslim". There are 50 million muslims in China. There are mosques in every major city. Most of these muslims dress, speak, and act just like other Chinese, and consider themselves Chinese. Xinjiang is a much more recent addition to China, and was originally conquered by the Qing (Manchus), not Han Chinese. Xinjiang continued to resist, broke away many times, and was independent as recently as 1949. Many Uyghurs feel more kinship with the people across the border in Kazakhstan that with the rest of China.
Not that that makes much of an argument in favor of Beijing's actions, though.
This policy is not coming from the central government in Beijing. This is an initiative of the Xinjiang provincial government.
Jewish Law? Begins in Exodus. More in Leviticus. Ongoing tradition of interpretation through your local rabbi.
Christian law? Begins with acknowledgement of Jewish law and extracts the Great Commandment (Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One; Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind) and Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. From there has always been a diversity of practice in interpretation by various Christian religious communities, Christian religious leaders, and Christian rulers (where you will find it blended with civil law).
If you want something specific the best bet for codified Christian law is probably the Code of Canon Law -- perhaps starting with The Obligations and Rights of All the Christian Faithful.
If you want to talk about how a particular United States midwestern Protestant group with a sola scriptura mindset goes about it, that's another matter, and a bit harder.
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
Jeez you're remarkably dense. For someone with a name like "Shanghai Bill", you'd figure you'd know more about China. The Hui muslims aren't engaged in trying to revolt against the government. The Uighurs are. I just can't imagine how someone could make a comment like that and not mention the difference between the Uighurs and the Hui. It's a baffling lack of context from someone who should damn well know better.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Thanks for the details. It's been a long time since I lived in China, and I wasn't particularly involved in the politics at the time.
A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
Yeah because circumcision is widespread among Christians. Oh wait, you are another one of those guys who do not know the difference between Old and New Testament.
I tried, but her husband came back early and wasn't happy... Tried to love him too, but that only made him even more pissed off!
Your ignorance would be amusing, were it not for the idiots modding you Insightful.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Uyghurs are a Turkic people who speak a Turkic language. They are ethnically, culturally, and linguistically quite distinct from Han Chinese.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
And Beijing.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Good luck doing that in a country where *all* mobile phones and their numbers are quickly and easily traceable by the authorities.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Do you really think Chinese censors are not aware of such things?
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
My understanding is that Japan doesn't allow many people to immigrate there, period.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Um... what?
Sweden was a *non-participant* in WWII, just as it's been a non-participant in every conflict since 1809. Germany got punished for trying to conquer all its neighbours and to exterminate a number of ethnic groups.
And I'm guessing you're an anti-Semitic nutjob.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
You explanation is too simplistic - political conflicts are never that straight forward. There is always culpability on both sides, and no one participant in a conflict ever tell an unbiased story; and when you pick a side, you are a participant, even if it is only in an infinitesimally small way - it certainly skews your opinions.
They have been Muslims for centuries and before the formation of the PRC were semi autonomous.
That is probably not entirely true - or not as simple as you put it; check Wikipedia for an outline of their history.
However they are seen as a threat as they are not part of the Han ethnic group that the current chinese government comes from.
Much of the conflict between the Uyghurs and the Chinese state goes back at least to the Qing Dynasty, so the modern PRC inherited an age-old conflict - I think it is disingenious to try to paint it as simply a about racism. I don't recognise any of the sources quoted in the OP, so how can I know that they are depicting the situation truthfully? What, if anything, do the Chinese state media have to say? When you don't have access to known, trustworthy sources, you have to weigh up what all sides say and try to balance your opinion that way; at least if you want to actually know the truth and aren't just looking to feed your grudges.
They have been Muslims for centuries and before the formation of the PRC were semi autonomous.
White Americans are constantly told they are not "natives" because they've only been in America for a few hundred years.
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
Faith is fungible.
Nope. Appearance of faith is fungible. As a lifelong atheist, I get to deal with stupid people all the time, and mostly I deal with them by not correcting them when they assume that I'm of {their favourite/their hated/any} faith.
My son does the same. While you and I can split hairs on slashdot all day long, in real life it will be way too exhausting to correct people's misconceptions. It's better to simply avoid the argument that {their god is real/moon landings were faked/the MRA is out to get them/the earth is flat/etc}.
Of course, on slashdot I get to determine how much of my time to waste; IRL the other party will continue the conversation long past the time that I am tired of it and I may not be able to get away.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
I thought all phones made in China where already full of spyware, or are they only accessible to the NSA?
I seriously would like to know what the history books will have to say about these times of data collection by governments and companies alike.
I hope they will say that it was just a black page in history, because that would mean things would have gone better. If they say that this was the period that the great enlightenment started, it means that things would get far worse.
Well, privacy was nice while it lasted, but just like your virginity, one you get fucked, you ain't getting it back. The difference is that you have no say in the matter. Not really.
I think I need to re-watch "The Circle".
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Except that's not usually how recruitment works. The enemy is aware that electronic communication is monitored, so even in the West the majority of first contacts by recruiters are made in person. In mosques, cafes etc. The idea that 'online recruitment' is how all the extremists are recruited is misguided. Online propaganda and 'recruitment' are mainly aimed at psychologically unstable individuals with the goal of pushing them over the edge and committing a lone wolf type of attack.
If they actually want to recruit someone to be trained and be a part of a coordinated plot, they will not make first contact online, even in the west, let alone in China with the government now openly confirming to them that all communications are tracked.
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
Adherents of a religion can be deemed a "race" of people, as they share a common heritage or tradition. Don't be so upset that the word "race" has lots of definitions. You might want to hold off on calling people idiots..
Maybe you would get better at winning arguments if you tried harder? You deserve a ribbon anyway butterfly.
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China does not have open society with free practice of religion. Ask and missionary who has traveled there in recent decades. The Churches are filled with government minders.
I can't imagine the mosques would be different especially in light of the fact that the PRC's authority is probably much more greatly threaten by its Islamic population than their domestic Christian groups.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
You call it a disease, yet the more religion we force out of the USA the worse the USA becomes. Crazy right?
I fully agree. However my point was just to highlight that the enemy is not exactly stupid when it comes to electronic monitoring. I mean, the game theory to this is quite simple in China: try to recruit someone online and you're very likely to get locked up. The risk is high even doing it in person because as you say they're probably watching most of the communities, but that risk is still smaller than trying to recruit strangers from the net.
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
The USA has become more religious in the past few decades. If it's getting any worse, you sure know the source.
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OK. I Thought this was the other idiot, so my other reply doesn't make sense. Now I know how it feels to be you idiots :^)
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
It's actually relatively easy to immigrate to Japan, get an education, masters or PhD particularly, from a recognized institution and you can immigrate pretty much immediately. Religion and education are polar opposites, it's a great filter.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
The phone itself is traceable. As others have noted, you must show government-issued ID to buy one in China.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
How many christians and/or jews did actually follow this because of their religion last year?
How many women have been stoned for adultery last year in muslim countries?
Compare and come back.
From what we know he may have existed actually. The story about bouncing job is another pair of shoes however.
I've argued against the Saudis before, even pretty recently. But, they're at least ideologically opposed to the Islamic State. But I've also read that one of bin Laden's goals was to drive this precise wedge between Saudi Arabia and the US, so this all becomes muddled very quickly. That, and our attempts at regime change have not been wildly successful. Most Americans know Iran as "some Muslim country that hates us," and don't seem to realize that the reason for that is that we overthrew their democratically-elected government and installed a brutal dictator to protect Anglo-American oil interests there.
So generally it's complicated. I don't know how much we can blame the nonviolent Wahhabists for the violent Wahhabists. We would probably rather have the stable government and their supply of oil than try to set anything else up. Either way, it's a bad situation, but there aren't a lot of good options for changing it.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
Not sure that helps but you need a proper identification to buy prepaid cards in Germany. German government may install spyware on your computers so your permission is irrelevant here. OC Germans will not hang you (or whatever they do in China) so at least this should comfort you if you live in Germany. This may change however. If Germany does it how many other Western countries does it too?
I wasn't suggesting that they were equivalent... I was simply observing that both religions appear to not place a very high priority on any of the bad stuff that may happen to one on account of their beliefs, and anticipating that in such religions, a devout believer would be inclined to not want to deny their faith simply because of what happens to be a minor material inconvenience in comparison to the scope of what they believe in.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
A guy named Clark Kent may also have existed. That doesn't lend any legitimacy to the Superman stories.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
You call it a disease, yet the more religion we force out of the USA the worse the USA becomes. Crazy right?
The only people it gets worse for are the ones who have in the past enjoyed special privileges and have been shielded from discrimination because of the social status afforded by their religious affiliation.
So, yeah, it's crazy to think that people actually think that forcing religion out of our government is making things worse. It's just the butthurt christianists that are used to getting their way and keeping everyone else "in their place" that are worse off.
Ask me how the Heisenberg Principle may or may not have saved my life.
"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city." -- Deuteronomy 22:23-24
Emphasis added. The generally accepted interpretation of these verses is that if a woman were attacked in the middle of a city, someone else would hear the attack and come to stop it. If the woman didn't "cry out", and was therefore a willing participant, then she was guilty of adultery.
Obviously, in the modern world, that assumption isn't valid, but 1000 BCE Israel was a different culture. The Torah also doesn't have nearly the minute detail that current US law has.
You may call it religion but I'm not so sure that the "prosperity gospel" would be seen as anything other than merchants in the temple to Jesus.
There seems to be a lot of "God hates poor people, that's why they are poor" and "I've got mine" dressed up to look like something other than greed.
... i don't think that word means what you think it means.
jordan peterson might turn you around on a bit of that. go give him a watch. interesting take, and gives me a appreciation for the judeo-christian fundamentals of western civilization.
as he sometimes says. you might say you're an atheist, and you very well might think you believe it. but you're acting out a christian ethos so what do you really believe?
he comes at religious morality... from an interesting and deeply affecting direction.
"Burner" phones are an American thing. Getting a sim card or whatever without valid ID is unlikely in most of the world, and of course China brings that up an extra authoritarian notch.
What's the use of a second phone if it's still in your name?
Seriously? You never heard of the cult with Sarin gas? It's just about the most famous bit of religious terrorism ever.
I take your meaning. I just caution people, if you have not been to the non-touristy parts of China, or closely worked with anyone on the ground in China that is on the Party's s*it list, its not like TV.
You can't understand what goes on there in the context of how things go in the United States or much of Europe. Most people don't realize just how effective the Chinese really are at being thought police.
You read a few articles how everyone there uses a VPN and think the folks in the government are a bunch of rubes who have no idea what goes on just beyond their office windows. This is not the case. They have just become masterful at 1) identifying what is real threat to their authority and what isn't 2) applying pressure in the places that matter and letting folks get away with a little of this and little of that other places; but only a 'little'.
Its a delicate balance of keeping people respectful and fearful but not so angry and frustrated they decided 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' like we saw all across the Arab spring. Where groups that don't like each other, never the less "teamed" long enough to riot and topple some governments, before going back to attacking each other.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Not sure if I get you as I am not a fun of people in latex clothing unless they are busty females. So you say that there was one Clark Kent a journalist writing stories for a major newspaper? You see by rejecting everything there exists about the story of Jesus you become one of the people who believe instead of knowing. The same problem seen in most people fighting faith anywhere in the West. This does not mean you are a bad person it just means you are no different from people believing in fictional characters that you seem so dislike. I do not care either way but both sets of people i.e. individuals believing in odd stories and ones denying anything happened at all belong firmly to the same category of individuals that are difficult to deal with unless one accepts their version of reality.
No, I am saying that there MAY have been a guy named Jesus Christ, but if so that doesn't mean he died and came back from the dead 3 days later, because that is just Christian Mythology.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
But only certain branches (mustly Saudi) Muslims believe that Jihad should be violent. Why do we support Saudi again? Why do we allow Saudi funding of mosques abroad?
Actually, no. There are no versions of Islam that prohibit violent jihad, since Mohammed himself clearly stated that violent jihad is the highest form of service to allah.
I generally agree w/ most criticisms of Saudi Arabia, but since President Trump's visit, they have been shifting their policies, and taking a hard line not against moderate Muslims or anti-Muslims, but against Jihadists. You mentioned Wahabism: the only other Wahabi country in the world is Qatar, which has been the focus of criticism from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Emirates & Bahrein. Saudi Arabia is also unique in being critical of Turkey, which has been proving emphatically that it's a bigger adversary of the US than even Russia! Most recently, Turkish military did their own beheadings of Kurdish troops in Syria (not ISIS), and leaked the locations of secret US military bases in Syria. Somewhat surprisingly, the US hasn't chosen to call Turkey out on that, but the Saudis have.
I also wonder whether the Saudis have had any cash to give mosques anywhere lately. As Hugh Fitzgerald recently noted:
Meanwhile, the Muslim Arabs are more divided among themselves that at any time in their history. They are preoccupied with their own problems. In the Gulf, Saudi Arabia and several Gulf sheikdoms (U.A.E., Bahrain), as well as Egypt, are relentlessly pressuring Qatar, which they charge with supporting the Muslim Brotherhood. For the Saudis, the Muslim Brotherhood practices an inadmissible form of “terrrorism” because it has repeatedly shown itself a threat to the Saudi regime. In 2003, the Brotherhood attacked the Saudi rulers for allowing American forces into the Kingdom; the Saudis were even more shocked when the Muslim Brotherhood helped overthrow Mubarak in Egypt, for this was interpreted as a potential future threat to the Saudi rulers as well. Also unacceptable to the Saudis are Qatar’s continued close ties with Iran, that go beyond the economic links naturally resulting from the fact that Qatar and Iran share the largest natural gas field in the world. And Al Jazeera, based in and funded by Qatar, reports critically on the Saudi regime, as it does on other Arab rulers (though of course exempting those in Qatar itself); some of this news is highly embarrassing to the Saudis and other ruling families. In late June, the Saudis, the U.A.E, Bahrain, and Egypt cut diplomatic ties and severed all their land, sea, and air links to Qatar, and made thirteen demands. These included ending all support for “terrorism” (i.e., the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, ISIS, among others), expelling known terrorists who had been living in Qatar, and stop paying ransom to Al-Qaeda and ISIS for kidnapped Qatari nationals. As for its ties to Iran, Qatar was told to close the Iranian diplomatic missions in Qatar and the Qatari missions in Iran, to expel members of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard, and to cut off all military and intelligence cooperation with Iran. Furthermore, all trade and commerce with Iran by Qatar must strictly comply with US and international sanctions. And Qatar was told to stop funding Shi’ite militias in Iraq.
Another demand was for the Turkish airbase in Qatar to be shut down, presumably because Erdogan, though a Sunni, has been too friendly to Iran for the Saudis to accept.
...
Saudi Arabia is the busiest of all, engaged on every front. It is leading the campaign of Gulf states against Qatar and the Muslim Brotherhood. It is propping up the Sunni ruler of Bahrain, keeping his Shi’a population under control. It is fighting a proxy war ag
Perhaps *you* should have read at least the first sentence of the Wikipedia article you linked?
Sweden maintained its policy of neutrality during World War II.
Hey, they're playing your song...
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
In this particular case perhaps where Christ tells people to stop stoning sinners? ;-)
Christ also said he wasn't changing any of the 'law', and that everything was still applicable....
Matthew 5-18 "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
In bibles that highlight jesus' own words in red... this is red. I'm not sure how this passage doesn't carry Jewish law forward to the followers of Christ.
It makes picking and choosing whatever you want a lot easier when Jesus gave all sides lots of ammo to use.
Matthew 5-17-18 seems to carry Jewish law forward to the followers of Christ.
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Fuck you, fish tits!.!
Fuck you, fish tits.!.
Perhaps you should look into where it came from and how it came to be so well armed and well funded. After you've done so you may come to a very different conclusion. IMHO Trump's largest foreign policy mistake is to take the Saudi side (the guys that wouldn't let us have a base) against Qatar (our best allies in the middle east - the ones who actually let us have a base in their country). Qatar is giving us plenty of "material support" against I.S. while the Saudis seems to still be feeding the other side.
Saudi Arabia is not one of the former funders of the Islamic State. They have their own factions that they back - the Islamic Front, which was a coalition of 7 Islamic parties from various parts of Syria. It is opposed to ISIS, the Baathist regime as well as the US backed Free Syrian Army. Problem is that aside from the Kurdish SDF/Rojava, all those factions are Sunni Jihadist groups, while the Baathists are Alawites allied to Hizbullah & Iran.
In addition to that, the Saudis have been too nose deep in problems of their own to effectively support Jihad against the West. Aside from their dispute w/ Qatar, they are fighting proxy wars against Iran in both Syria and Yemen. In Syria, their supporters - the Islamic Front - has been too damaged thanks to both Russian bombardment as well as Hizbullah & Iranian military activity. In Yemen, the Saudis are involved in the full blown war against the Iranian backed Shi'ite Houthis, and have even enlisted troops from their allies, like UAE in this conflict. Qatar too was a part of this alliance until recently, when the Saudis had them removed. In Bahrein, the Saudis are desperately supporting the Hanafa emir/sultan from being ousted by the majority Shi'ite population of the country and becoming an open ally of Iran. Oh, and while all this has been happening, oil prices have been plummeting, so that it's no longer a cheap expertise for the Saudis to both bribe their own citizens not to revolt, while keeping all these neighborhood fires in Bahrein, Yemen & Syria in check.
OTOH, Qatar is one of those countries that has deftly played both sides of this conflict. On one hand, they allied w/ the US to be the headquarters of CENTCOM, thereby making themselves indispensable. OTOH, they've been supporters of the Jihadists since day 1. On one occasion, the CIA spotted Osama w/ a member of Qatar's ruling al-Thani family, and could not take any action since the Pentagon/State Department did not want to mar relations w/ Qatar by killing a member of the al-Thanis.
Besides that, Qatar has also supported Hamas, Hizbullah, & the Muslim Brotherhood while al Jazeera, the state owned TV network, used to broadcast those Osama videos last decade. Besides that, Qatar has close ties to Iran, which certainly throws into question how reliable an ally they are of the West. That alone should have made the US raise red flags against them, rather than try & mediate b/w them & the Saudis. While al Jazeera doesn't dare expose any misdeeds of the al-Thanis, they have been happily reporting critically on the Saudis, the Egyptians, the Emiratis & others in the region. Also, Turkey has been playing a role that is anything but at odds w/ the US - most recently exposing the locations of secret US bases in Syria and beheading Kurdish fighters allied to the US.
The US is in a bind, since it would be an expensive proposition to move CENTCOM out of Qatar and to another country in the neighborhood. They wouldn't wanna pick Saudi Arabia, since that was one of the starting issues for al Qaeda. They could pick Kuwait, but it's unclear that Kuwait is any friendlier to the US than Saudi Arabia: 1991 is a distant memory. Also, w/ Congress pressurizing the president to keep alive the rivalry w/ Putin, the US
Saudi Arabia is a command economy, and every Arab citizen (one has to be Muslim to be a citizen of that country) is a welfare recipient from the government. In other words, that country is the closest thing to a Communist country that one can imagine in terms of government owning all property and paying the citizens. The slaves you describe are the expatriate labor from various countries, be it poorer Arab & Muslim countries, such as Egypt, Pakistan, Indonesia, or from other non-Muslim countries such as Philippines, Sri Lanka & India. Those people are SOL: their passports are confiscated by their 'employers', so that they can't even quit if they don't like the working conditions.
That said, the falling price of oil and its relative irrelevance compared to the last century ensures that their days are numbered!
The Uighurs are Turkic people - similar to their neighbors in Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan. If they became independent, it would spur Jihadist movements throughout Turkistan - 4 of the 5 stans in the region. Both the Chinese as well as the Russians have a very good reason to curb them. I normally loathe the Chicoms and oppose them wherever, but not in this one case.
Also keep in mind that China also has Hui Muslims: Hui are Han Chinese who follow Islam
This pope has been at the forefront of opening up Italy and Europe to the Muslim rapefugee 'migrants'. The countries where this has been a burning issue has included 'Catholic' Spain, France, Austria, Belgium, mixed Christian Germany & Netherlands, Lutheran Denmark, Norway & Sweden, and Anglican England. One can hardly point to just one sect of Christianity.
Statistically, there are hardly any Jews in Xinxiang, the province where this edict is most likely to be implemented. Also, shaving the beard - that's only forbidden after a Muz has performed the haj - the pilgrimage to Mecca.
The laws may carry over, what is considered sinful, but the punishments performed by men certainly seem to not necessarily carry over.
lol
So, yeah, it's crazy to think that people actually think that forcing religion out of our government is making things worse.
I believe in the separation of church and state. But I am also for saying the real version of "The Pledge of Allegiance". Religion has been around for a long long time. I'm by no means saying it should be forced upon anybody, However our country was founded on Christianity.
I completely understand where you're coming from. But that is with all walks of life, not just limited to religion. But maybe I'm not a common breed. I have been poor most of my life, even done time cause I needed money... But I cant really blame anybody but myself, and am not changing that. I make decent money, yet I live in a 400 sqft. apartment with my fiance and our dog. I don't believe in giving people hand outs because they're "poor" I have worked damn hard to get where I'm at today. And I feel others should be held to that same standard.
But I am also for saying the real version of "The Pledge of Allegiance".
Which "real" version are you referring to? The original, written in 1887? Or the one that was modified during the red scare of the McCarthy era that added the words "under God" at the end?
And whose God is it anyway? Most of the founding fathers were Deists, and had very little in common with the Evangelicals or even mainstream Protestants or Catholics of the modern era. Our country was most definitely not founded on Christianity.
Ask me how the Heisenberg Principle may or may not have saved my life.
It seems I believed an article about this which people knowledgeable about Japan generally think is untrue. There's discussion on the topic here: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-tr...
(Just don't try to click through to the original article, because it has become a spam page.)
A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
Once you let lying into your system as a legitimate behavior, all bets are out the window. That's one of the many reasons Christians are not given such license. And if you'll lie about one thing, why wouldn't you lie about another? See Taqiyaa about Taqiyya http://raymondibrahim.com/2014...
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
That doesn't rate on the scale of those "God hates to poor" folks. Consider things like the people who got so angry when people who had been homeless in New Orleans before Hurricane Katrina got some help just like those "real people" who had property.
I don't think Jesus would call those angry folks religious.
In case you haven't noticed:
Christinas doesn't take the rules of the Jews / old testament that seriously.
Also this sand-hippie said something about letting the non-sinners throw the first stone...
So say wonderful things about your government when you arrange a private meeting with your buddies, with no phones in the room to bitch about your government. You still get to fabricate a government approved alter ego, which defeats the purpose of the part time listening in.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Game over man, game over.
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as he sometimes says. you might say you're an atheist, and you very well might think you believe it. but you're acting out a christian ethos so what do you really believe?
Actually, that's the other way around, let me fix it for you:
You might *say* you're a christian, but you're acting out a very secular ethos[1], so what do you really believe?
[1] You're not stoning adulterers, you're not killing homosexuals, you touch women who are on their period, you have sex before marriage, divorce after marriage. You eat pork, pick up the fallen grapes in your vineyard, mix the fabrics in your cloths and shave the hair off your face.
You aren't doing any of those christian things, but you do a lot of secular things, so ask yourself - what do you actually believe in?
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
I see the coward knows nothing of his own religion. Nothing new here.
Sounds like you need to go read your bible.
You are obviously not from the US. Circumcision is very hard to avoid here. You have to explicitly tell the doctors and all nurses, and then watch them like a hawk to make sure they don't mutilate your baby's penis.
This guy gets it.
#DeleteFacebook
the core of it though, is the intrinsic value of human life. there's very little rational about it.
those are details, minor details at that. in this country, murderers have rights.
why is it good to be truthful, is that something you've thought of. what is good?
as jordan peterson says, that text you're criticizing, even if you say it's flawed, and no doubt there, even if it's contradictory in parts, even if even if... it is still a text that represents the received wisdom of 2000 years. throw out the parts that aren't good, but saying it has no value is being petty.
he would say that rationality can take you far, but it simply elucidates what the world is, not how to operate in it.
Here's something from the news site crikey.com.au "Yes, Australia's best bud Saudi Arabia is actively funding terrorism":
http://bit.ly/2tO8kKc
It should be the full article. If not you can have read the full thing if you provide an email address and choose a password for a free two week trial of the site.
Absolutely true! Unfortunately, the deep state in both the State Department & the Pentagon believe that they have to pander to Sunni Arab sensibilities, and therefore avoid policies that would further US interests, like setting up CENTCOM in Israel & completely ignoring the Arabs, supporting an independent Kurdish state, and so on.
it is still a text that represents the received wisdom of 2000 years. throw out the parts that aren't good, but saying it has no value is being petty.
Once again I must point out that you're looking at it exactly the wrong way around - the text might represent 2000 years of wisdom, but all the parts that are good are secular, while all the parts that are bad are not.
You're looking at the book and saying "See? Religion has a few good things to say", while in reality the book would've been all good (not just a few things) if you'd only take out the religion.
You're wedded to the idea that the only way to be good comes form the book, when in reality the book simply codified the good things that already existing and then added a few perversions of its own.
Remove the perversions and you have no religion. The book may bestow good wisdom, but it does so in spite of its primary message, not because of it.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
i don't think you're defining religious and secular properly. or not really understanding them so. both the religious sentiments that underpin western civilization, as well as the religious sentiments that underpin religious bigotry are religious in nature. just because those that underpin western civilization are less obvious on their face to be religious in nature, does not make them secular.
eugenics is secular. kill the weak to remove them from the gene-pool. kill the infirm, sterilize.
these are wrong, why are they wrong. because people have a right to life regardless of their utilitarian value. why do we believe that this is the case? because there is intrinsic value to all people etc. etc.
the secular case devolves into utilitarianism to a large extent, there is no focus on the individual, or that case can be argued.
my belief as i can elucidate it now, is that innately we know that the individual matters, that we matter, and i see that reflected and delineated in the judeo-christian ethos. hate the sin love the sinner. etc. etc. it still says to love the sinner, that resonates with me on a fundamental level. peterson has convinced me that there might be something there, in those texts, that describe how people have found best to live their lives.
as peterson would describe it. get a group of people together, extract out the leader, take 100 leaders combine their stories and you get a hero myth. take a 100 myths and combine them and you have the basis for a religion. at each step you're extracting the common aspects, and the aspects that people 'look up to'.
and the underlying structure that's being described, is the male power hierarchy regulated by female selection.
because apparently, every person alive has twice as many female ancestors as male ancestors. as do most animals in the animal kingdom.
As part of a qualitative evaluation of Islam vs. Christianity, we can also compare your statement on the permissibity of Muslim lies to the direction to Christians in Revelations c.2 v.10b:
"Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life."
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
Islam is not a race.
And this excuses bigotry... How?
Sure the technical term isn't racism, it's xenophobia. However most xenophobes are so dumb they cant understand words with more than two syllables, they're also dumb enough that they think anyone besides them is going to be fooled by the old "Islam is not a race" excuse and will forgive their bigoted bollocks.
So the term racism has become interchangeable with xenophobia because the practical difference between a racist and a xenophobe is the practical difference between being a jerk and being a jerk.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.