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GoDaddy Expels Neo-Nazi Site Over Article On Charlottesville Victim (bbc.co.uk)
Reader Big Hairy Ian writes: Web hosting company GoDaddy has given a US neo-Nazi site 24 hours to find another provider after it disparaged a woman who died in protests in Virginia. The Daily Stormer published a piece denigrating Heather Heyer, who was killed on Saturday after a car rammed into a crowd protesting at a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville. GoDaddy had faced calls to remove the white supremacist site as a result. The web host said the Daily Stormer had violated its terms of service. "We informed the Daily Stormer that they have 24 hours to move the domain to another provider, as they have violated our terms of service," GoDaddy said in a statement on Twitter. Previously, some web users had called on GoDaddy to remove the site -- including women's rights campaigner Amy Siskind. Violence broke out in Charlottesville, Virginia, after white supremacists organised a controversial far-right march called "Unite the Right".
And nothing of value was lost.
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
This isn't a First Amendment issue.
GoDaddy has the right to toss anyone off of their service for violating their Terms of Service.
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
They have rules and any site that violates them are subject to them. Supporting violence should certainly get anyone booted.
Enough said. Politics aside, they are still a horrible host for the money.
Yeah, except that she was murdered by a nazi at that rally in Charlottesville, you fool.
She's dead you brain dead plank and its the right wing site being expelled. Never mind following the news, you apparently can't even read 2 sentences properly.
The government is bound to allow free speech. A corporation doesn't have to put up with things they find objectionable. There are other options for those pushing hate and GoDaddy is certainly in the right here.
Bollocks.
Corporations have a long history of opinions on social matters. GoDaddy (finally) decided that they really didn't want any of that site on them any more.
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
Nonsense. Businesses should be free to associate with whom they wish. Typically they accept just about anyone because everyone's money is equally green (or whatever color your country uses) but places have dress codes, conduct rules for members, etc.
Even if you want to get into the messy part of the argument about whether a business could refuse service to Jews or homosexuals, the general argument still stands in that limiting your customers isn't a good bussiness move.
They should be glad GoDaddy is letting them go, most cancerious webhoster in excistance.
If the alternative is to be run over by nazis in cars then I gladly choose leftist censurship any day of the week.
Yep, this post will give the racist slahsdotters to come out of their holes ... let's try a pre-emptive point or two.
- If you cry 'many sides', you are supporting the racists.
- All of the protestors were there to support racism and other vile ideologies. Most were prepared for violence, many were violent.
- The counter-protestors were there in opposition to the vile scum. Some were violent. Most were not.
- The young lady who was killed was demonstrating peacefully.
after white supremacists organised a controversial far-right march called "Unite the Right".
"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
For one million or more.
Because that's how much you feel you'd be entitled to, huh?
Are you not aware that this isn't how the law works?
Again the heuristic holds true: ACs generally only post idiocy, and idiocy is generally only posted by ACs.
Can godaddy get sued discrimination / censorship?
Now what if they banned votetrump.com ?
Or banned an anti H1B website ?
As usual, leftists want to censor things rather than refute them. The greatest enemy to free speech in the world is leftists. If you can refute someone, speak up and do it, even if the speech is disagreeable, such as white supremacy.
It's not censorship or a violation of freedom of speech. All they did was cancel the hosting of the site. The site is free to purchase hosting services somewhere else. It's basically as if GoDaddy owned a bulletin board and someone puts a flyer on there they don't like. They are free to remove that flyer and tell the person not to post it again. Individuals (corporations, etc) are not obligated to provide you a forum for your speech, and your right to free speech does not translate into a right to be heard by others.
Personally, I never thought I'd be on GoDaddy's side on anything, but I have no problem with this.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
The alt right killed this woman and injured many others for excercising her right to free speech against their genocidal policies.
The google computer programmer was simply fired, which will generate more outrage?
As usual, private enterprises want to distance themselves from objectively horrible people because it may cost them money.
As usual, objectively horrible people suddenly decide that it is "censorship" if private enterprises decide that they do not want to be associated with said objectively horrible people, and completely forget about the whole "freedom of association" thing.
Because they're the ones running down their opponents with cars...
The greatest enemy to free speech in the world is leftists. If you can refute someone, speak up and do it
... says the Anonymous Coward
As usual, leftists want to censor things rather than refute them. The greatest enemy to free speech in the world is leftists. If you can refute someone, speak up and do it, even if the speech is disagreeable, such as white supremacy.
Does Nazi-ism, or running one's car through a crowd, really need any more refutation at this point?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Yeh the Nazis, so loved by the far right these days were just really nice about it when people objected, whereas "the left" just stifled their free speech by kicking their asses all the way back to Berlin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... I was a child when I first saw this movie and the Nazis seemed like a surreal element to me at the time, why would there be Nazis here in America when we had a big ol' war to defeat them? It seemed even sillier than the guys with rebel flags painted on their barn roof here above the Mason Dixon line.
They have rules and any site that violates them are subject to them. Supporting violence should certainly get anyone booted.
Well, let's hope they apply the same rules to the self-styled "Antifa" facists.
That's irrelevant when it comes to the fact that service providers can stipulate their own conditions for providing their services and you're agreeing with them when contracting for the service.
Ezekiel 23:20
It's not censorship or a violation of freedom of speech. All they did was cancel the hosting of the site. The site is free to purchase hosting services somewhere else.
Are they still free to purchase hosting services within the US, though? Anti-terrorism laws apply to that kind of extremist content.
Yep, and the counter 'protesters' were the ones who started the violence.
what about discrimination laws?
Let's say EA does not like an website talking about poor working conditions??
Or say jay's hosting cuts off a site talking about how bad that 80 hour work weeks are at jay's hosting!
They're also free to start their own hosting company. The first amendment doesn't require others to let you use their press. In an ideal world every company would agree with you, but we don't live there and if GoDaddy thinks being associated with these people will hurt their business then they're obligated to ditch them.
We've been through this before. Some of you younger Slashdotters may not be old enough to have had a parent who was alive in the 1940s.
There's only one way to deal with Nazis.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Corporations should not have opinions on social matters.
Depends. GoDaddy is legally within its rights to refuse or continue (further) service. If the site calls for and supports continued violence, GoDaddy is (at least morally) obligated to report such calls to the relevant authorities and to discontinue service. You (or whoever you intended) could sue all you wanted, but it would go approximately nowhere, and it would further invite scrutiny and monitoring from the FBI (if you're in the US), or similar.
The only (slight) worry I have over this is that such sites will start burrowing into the Dark Web, where the general public cannot see and ridicule them for what they are. I can predict without looking that many of these sites are already there. Maybe that's a good thing - keep the bastards in the dark where they belong. But then, being able to easily point to something and show others "you can see what these chuckleheads actually believe right here (link)" is a good educational tool against folks who want to spread misinformation.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Unless they're literal Nazis.
I mean, come on. They're fucking Nazis for chrissake. If your business model relies on not alienating Nazis, then there may be bigger problems than your profit/loss statement.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I have long said that, in the west, the biggest censorship issue is private company not wanting certain speec and thuis relegating offline where it can die or spread the rot unbeknown. I feel split on the issue , my anti nazi side feels happy that the daily stormer get dinged, but my anti censorship side see the clear problem here.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
who shut down the speech anyone who disagrees with them.
(This is sarcasm, but it's sad that I have to label it as such here.)
It's not censorship or a violation of freedom of speech. All they did was cancel the hosting of the site. The site is free to purchase hosting services somewhere else.
Are they still free to purchase hosting services within the US, though? Anti-terrorism laws apply to that kind of extremist content.
Well good thing for them Trump refuses to call them terrorists, or even mention them at all.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
This the road to banning free speech!
No, tolerating the extreme right's totalitarianism and intimidation against those whose views they oppose, like, say, ramming a car into a crowd and then denigrating the murdered victim, is the road to banning free speech. As in, if we as people AND corporations don't act decisively against this (our president won't even condemn it on camera, instead giving a wink wink, nudge nudge and having his minions release "statements" a day or two after the fact), anyone to the left of Genghis Khan and (yes, at this point) Adolf Hitler will be intimidated into silence, and eventually stripped of that right altogether by the right-wing, racist, sexist, bigoted judges the current group of white supremacists in the White House are packing the courts with.
This is a battle for the future freedom of this nation, and the principles upon which it was founded, and the purveyors of these hate sites can all fuck off, and have no right to have any platform provided to them by another. Their money isn't as green as anyone else's: it's blood money and should be rightly rejected.
Unless you bake cakes, then you can't refuse service.
> Personally, I never thought I'd be on GoDaddy's side on anything, but I have no problem with this. Exactly. I haven't agreed with GoDaddy in a long time on many subjects, though I'm happy they came out on the side of sanity here.
You don't refute Nazis.
If your house is on fire, do you refute the flames or extinguish them?
You are welcome on my lawn.
I guess they remember what IBM did the last time around.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I'm torn on this one. On the one hand, what the people behind that site did is beyond reprehensible and they should seriously be ashamed of their actions. On the other hand, I think it creates kind of a dangerous precedent when things like this happen. As vile, disgusting, and any other negative adjective you care to use, the content was... in this country people have the right to express their opinions however dumb, idiotic, offensive, or misguided it may be.
If there were a public domain registrar that would take any and all applicants, except those advocating for some violation of the law (like a violent overthrow of the government or an ISIS recruiting site), fine, but when you basically have to go through private companies and those companies can arbitrarily enforce an arbitrary set of rules that they alone can modify any time they want and you are either required to accept or leave... that rubs me the wrong way. There's idiots on both extremes of the political spectrum that are always looking to silence views that they don't agree with and this sort of thing just hands them a win, so they redouble their efforts.
Given the fact it is an actual neo-nazi website, they probably don't have exactly a good case here.
Stormer is not exactly your provocateur right wing breitbart thing.
> what about discrimination laws?
To which nazi-protection law are you referring? I'm unaware of it.
Before you say "First Amendment," I'll point out that that response would make you an idiot.
--I'm so big, my sig has its own sig.
-- See?
The government is bound to allow free speech. A corporation doesn't have to put up with things they find objectionable.
So, a bigger government doing things in place of private businesses would mean more freedom?
He means he should be able to shun who he wants. Not that others should be able to shun him. You know, like most self professed libertarians.
#governmenthandsoffmymedicare
Well, since corporations are legally people or at least people-ish, why can't they have an opinion?
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
>implying it wasn't an antifa driving the car
Everyone's opinions are worth the same: exactly zero.
Surprised that none of the conservative voices I see often on this site who are willing to defend Trump and the GOP aren't complaining about this. What's the difference between Trump and the Alt-Racist movement? If you defend one, you're defending the other.
You would have to prove that you were denied service based on membership in a protected class.
In your example, complaining about one's workplace (a hosting agency) causing your site to be removed from being hosted by that agency is not, legally speaking, discrimination. That is, you didn't lose hosting services there because of your race, age, religion, etc.
Now, it's probably a stupid thing for them to do in your example, due to things like the Streisand Effect, but it's not discrimination as laid out in your example.
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
censorship
sensrSHip/Submit
noun
1. the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security.
How is this not censorship? First Amendment and censorship are two different things. Mean what you say ans say what you mean.
The fucking Nazis were refuted back in the 40s.
This entire mess is an embarrassment for everybody involved. The best course of action is to stay as far away as possible from it. If only people would give half this effort into actual useful stuff instead of political nonsense maybe this world would be a better place to live. Maybe. It still baffles me how can grown-ups engage themselves in such worthless confrontations even when history shows it only leads to tragedies time and time again. Will our race ever learn to appreciate peace and quiet?
GoDaddy is legally within its rights to refuse or continue (further) service.
Funny how the right to refuse service covers those who refuse service to the right wing, but it ceases to exist when you're talking about Christian bakers who don't want to enter into contracts to make cakes celebrating gay weddings.
Interests function identically to opinions.
In many people there really isn't any distinction between the two.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
It's still censorship, even when political groups or corporations do it. And it's a standard left-wing procedure: silence anyone they disagree with.
wah wah wah my rights have been violated. No they haven't, snowflake. GoDaddy has the right to set its terms of service. If you don't like them, find another provider. If you violate them, GoDaddy has the right to kick you off. Nothing to do with censorship, only the government can censor.
https://media.tenor.co/images/...
You are welcome on my lawn.
I would sue GoDaddy with extreme prejudice if I was this lady.
Sue them for what?
A corporation doesn't have to put up with things they find objectionable. There are other options for those pushing hate and GoDaddy is certainly in the right here.
I agree. But Progressives can't have it both ways by cheering GoDaddy in this instance while siccing the government on Christian bakeries.
You do realize that "Antifa" is an abbreviation for the German word for Anti-fascist, right?
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
The barrier to entry for the dark web, low as it may be, is probably enough to deter a lot of people from bothering to regularly visit the site and become radicalized.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Actually NO, for the financial/legal privileged protections offered an incorporated business they are obliged to allow all constitutional rights w.r.t. their product. Otherwise a failed product would result in imprisonment for fraud of any business-owner/stockholder. Or the malefacting owner(s) shot-dead-right-here ! Business exchanges legal protection for enabled consumer behavior ... all liberties part of the social contract. You gotta pay-2-play pad're no biz-nazi libertoon fantasy world here in the yeomans straight white christian democracy.
I thought the nazis, specifically the one driving the car was being blamed. I'm confused, are there other nazis being blamed? I thought the alt white righters weren't nazis. Why would they car if nazis are being blamed?
Or is it because they are wanna be nazis that they dislike anti nazi propaganda (aka history)...
Yes, and "DPRK" is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
There were what a few thousand of them? Contrast this with the various anti-Trump demonstrations and unless your business is in Naziville it won't matter to a national chain and if they are a big enough group they'll just start their own companies. The Mormons did it so there's no reason these idiots couldn't. They probably do have a few cottage industries that sell them their Nazi-themed shit.
As an aside I have a hard time calling them Nazis. The Nazis ran one of the most horrible and efficient genocides of all time and built a war machine that took the rest of the continent and much of the world to fight off. These are just shit head white supremacists that were leftovers scraped from a gene Dixie cup adopting Nazi symbols. Another few generations of their racial purity and they'll all have more toes than chromosomes. Calling them Nazis just lets them think they're more badass than they are.
That wooshing noise was the point you just missed.
Wootery is using an alias. Wootery is not anonymous. There is a slight difference.
You can search slashdot and find other posts by Wootery. However, it is, for all intents and purposes, impossible to tell one AC from another. Are you the same AC who posted above? Or the one with the post full of spelling errors? We can't know.
Hell, it might not even be something a site administrator can tell.
But we can look at posts by Wootery and go "Hey, this is the same Wootery who posted on that article about Threadripper, or that article on the latest idiocy by Microsoft."
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
Funny how the right to refuse service covers those who refuse service to the right wing, but it ceases to exist when you're talking about Christian bakers who don't want to enter into contracts to make cakes celebrating gay weddings.
Funny how you take two situations and act like it's the exact same people who are making the decisions that you disagree with.
Hint: it isn't.
GoDaddy is well known for trying to censor free speech.
Hi,
I suggest you look for the Opening Arguments Podcast episode 64 and 65 on issues of free speech (other podcasts and sources are available :) )
There are several tests to be made when judging on free discrimination cases, it depends on states laws, YMMV, etc. As that guy began to point out there are groups that are protected under the law, and some other groups are not deemed by the lawmaker as requiring such protection.
The only place I can talk on the street is in a private rented space with speech rules? Bullshit.
"Bbbut why can't I tell people to GAS THE KIKES"
"muh rites"
I'm sure it will, just as soon as they start committing acts of terror and murdering people.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
The site looks like a parody site set up by some left-wing anti-Trump group to try and defame Republicans!
No, you can't refuse service because of race, sex, or sexual orientation.
If I went into a bakery owned by a Cambodian ex-pat and tried to order a cake glorifying Pol Pot I'd be justifiably refused. Political views and the advocacy of violence are not protected in that setting.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
They are communist Monsters Like the SA was Mobsters.
I thought the nazis, specifically the one driving the car was being blamed. I'm confused, are there other nazis being blamed? I thought the alt white righters weren't nazis. Why would they car if nazis are being blamed?
Ask the media, because they can't even get their own propaganda straight. I've read articles from wapo, nyt, usa today all claiming a whole pile of different things. Which tells me that the truth is likely nowhere near what's been actually reported, the entire thing stinks like talking points from Journolist all over again.
Om, nomnomnom...
Just like how Obama didn't call the BLM protester who killed 5 cops in Dallas a terrorist.
"Oh, but that's different!" No, it really isn't. Both BLM and the Nazis need to go...they're both breeding violent, hate-filled people.
Are they still free to purchase hosting services within the US, though? Anti-terrorism laws apply to that kind of extremist content.
Yes, they are. The US still has very strong protections of speech, even despicable speech. What they can't do is incite people to violence.
Fine! I'll go start my own media^W hosting provider. With confederates and NAZIs!
oh God, Bender, I am sorry for that...
When some bakery refused to cater a gay wedding things looked very differently. Suddenly a private business cannot chose who they do business with.
"It's OK when we do it." - the left
I look forward to your passionate denouncement of this violence from right-wing protesters like you have posted on here over and over about "antifa". This time someone even died so you better crank it up a notch.
Which is especially ironic considering that the Antifa are, in fact, facists. :)
Life is not for the lazy.
Imagine if someone advocated for killing people without trail, of people who might at some point in the future pose a threat to a member of his tribe. Further suppose they actually did kill some of these people along with a number of other people. Then after killing these other people they disparaged some of these people by saying they were male, between 13 and 60, so they deserved it. Should we block this person and people like them from the internet? Should GoDaddy expel any sites that regularly reprint what this person says?
Depends on the judge. It's a Cold Civil War in America now (and has been for awhile). The law is only applied when tested in court; and the outcome depends on which side holds authority.
Life is not for the lazy.
Does anyone know how are expired domain names being management? I have recently let an old domain name expire. My hosting provider kept it during some days after the expiration, but now it is parked at godaddy.com (not my hosting provider). Has someone already bought that domain name via GoDaddy (?! anyone interested in it should have contacted me before, I guess) or is that a normal proceeding among hosting providers (buying/selling expired domain names)?
Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
what about discrimination laws?
What about them?
All businesses are free to discriminate against people for any reason whatsoever, unless the reason is on the short list of protected classes (age, gender, religion, etc.)
A business can refuse you service just because they don't like the clothes you wear, the car you drive, your hair color, or even just because they're in a bad mood.
You keep using that word. You ought to learn what it means. Antifa was fighting the original fascists in Italy in 1921 already. Yes its the same organization.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
replace nazi with paying women less then men and see what happens when you try to do censorship to that?
What when apple did censorship on Pulitzer Prize-winning cartoons or stuff that deals with ethical challenges of smartphone manufacturing, including conflict minerals, environmental waste, and troubled labor practices
In this case they probably would have had to leave the site up. Hate speech is free speech. Funny thing, the original rulings on speech were to benefit liberals, now the alt-right is using the same rulings.
So even a bunch of race supremacists holding swastikas aren't NAZIs in your book?
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
When it comes to riots between otherwise obsolete and ignored bigots and counter protestors, and the ensuing mayhem, I think it's important to remember one phrase: Do not feed the trolls.
The best thing that ever happened to racist red-necks is Charlottesville. They reminded the world that they still exist, and while they cannot hold a job or participate in civilized society (and evidently are quite bitter about it), they demonstrate that they manage to eke out an existence on the fringes. That in turn will give some young red necklet hope for his future. Don't be a part of that. Ignore them, move on and leave them behind. Most of them will never change, but the young and mutable can weigh the life they will have to lead as a professionally oppressed white man against just living a life, and I have a feeling make better choices for themselves, mostly.
Do not feed the trolls.
It is censorship, but corporations have generally been able to do that. I hope GoDaddy would do the same to an alt-left site advocating killing people as well.
While I totally agree with this idea it has not always worked this way in practice, leading the right (esp the extreme right) to feel that it is "leftist" censorship. The case of the baker who refused to make a cake for a gay couple, was sued and lost shows that corporations don't always have the right to do business the way they want. As a libertarian I think GoDaddy should be able to refuse to host anyone they see fit and bakers should be able to refuse to bake cakes for whomever they don't want to. The inequity gives the appearance of favoritism for one side.
--- Tolerance is the axiomatic "virtue" of those without convictions ---
I would sue GoDaddy with extreme prejudice if I was this lady.
If you were that lady you would be dead after being run over by a white supremacist, though you'd have one less neo-Nazi site disparaging your reputation online, so there's that small comfort.
Corporations are free to encourage or discourage a particular use of their services in order to try to ensure that their product ends up being what they want it to be. If you don't like what they're selling, vote with your wallet and go elsewhere.
Why did all the European car attacks get posted but not Charlottesville????
I'm in agreement with you there.
Corporations should not have opinions on social matters.
Depends. GoDaddy is legally within its rights to refuse or continue (further) service. If the site calls for and supports continued violence, GoDaddy is (at least morally) obligated to report such calls to the relevant authorities and to discontinue service.
In order for GoDaddy to report such calls, GoDaddy would have to monitor the content of such calls. Do we want our hosting providers monitoring the content of what they host for us? How about other service providers such a cellular companies, should they monitor our phone calls to ensure their customers are not inciting violence?
I know that the "calls" referred to in the article are content which is a "call to action" and not a phone call and that web sites are way more publicly accessible than are private phone calls, but there is a continuum from public communication to private communication and it is good question as where where along that line (if anywhere) hosting providers should intervene. Somewhere in the middle is a private website that requires a log in. Should GoDaddy (or any provider) be monitoring the content of private web sites? Should Go To Meeting be monitoring the content of web meetings?
The driver of the car (James Fields Jr.) was hanging out with one of the white-nationalist/neo-nazi groups earlier in the day (something vanguard, I think). That group has already claimed "Uh, he's not with us.". Now, whether that's because he's really not with them, or they just realized how much shit is about to drop on them is an open question.
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
Seriously. Just shut up.
Modern liberalism, everyone.
No, you can say anything you want in public. People do it all the time. You don't have the right to violate a terms of use agreement and expect service.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ma...
https://www.washingtonpost.com...
http://www.npr.org/2017/06/16/...
and then there's Youtube. I could go on an on and on.
I could give two fucks what it ment in 1921. TODAY, the Antifa are a facist violent group of fucktards that should be labeled for what they are, a terrorist organization.
Life is not for the lazy.
Just like how Obama didn't call the BLM protester who killed 5 cops in Dallas a terrorist.
"Oh, but that's different!" No, it really isn't. Both BLM and the Nazis need to go...they're both breeding violent, hate-filled people.
False equivalency. Trump cannot control what Obama did or said. But Trump can control what he does (or in this case conspicuously does not) say.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
Pretty sure she was murdered by the other liberal protesters. When you watch the video the expression on the guy's face is fear and he's looking in the rear-view mirror trying to get away from something. A moment later he drives by from an uncrowded street and already has a dozen people chasing his car with bats.
At least he didn't hit you with a club. That's actually a mild response for a liberal, most of them call me bad names.
The Nazis all voted for Trump. They were even doing Trump cosplay down in Charlottesville.
Here is a photograph of the Charlottesville murderer, James Alex Fields (center), and his friends, wearing Donald Trump's signature golf costume, white polo shirt and khaki golf pants. It's their fucking uniform for chrissake.
The "new-age Nazis" are alt-right Trump supporters.
http://static-25.sinclairstory...
You are welcome on my lawn.
It is censorship, but corporations have generally been able to do that.
Yea but what does that have to do with anything? The thread starter did not say otherwise. He just stated the obvious and got modded down. Whereas some unrelated "the government" post got modded up.
I hope GoDaddy would do the same to an alt-left site advocating killing people as well.
Psh, those rules never apply to the left. You can be as anti-white or misandrist as you want.
They were mostly just a bunch of cucks. From the way they got their asses handed to them there weren't any real rednecks in the bunch, just a lot of college boys living off Daddy's money.
So organizations in 1921 can't change? Huh. That's interesting. I keep hearing the Democrats trying to defend their party when it's tossed out that they were largely involved in the creation of American racist organizations. I guess the whole "The parties changed!!!111!!!" thing can be ignored now?
Go-Daddy is free to define it's TOS and enforce their rules as they see fit.
I'm not so sure they (go-daddy) are not over reacting to the events over the weekend, but I support their right to TOS a customer (or group of customers) if they choose to. I suppose they *might* be sued if they don't apply their rules equally, but that's not the question here.
And before someone tries to advocate that this is a 1st amendment violation, it's clearly not. The 1st amendment applies to the government's suppression of speech (and religion). Go-Daddy is NOT part of the government, they are a corporation. The government cannot suppress speech (with in defined limits of course), but Go Daddy can refuse you service if they whish, especially if, as is this case, it would affect their ability to service their other customers and the reason is covered in their TOS.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
I look forward to your passionate denouncement of this violence from right-wing protesters like you have posted on here over and over about "antifa". This time someone even died so you better crank it up a notch.
You mean just like when BLM instigated that guy to the point where he shot 5 cops? Or those two thugs kidnapped a white retarded kid, and tortured him. Or that leftie nut that decided to spend a morning taking shots at politicians? You're not going to find me supporting violence on either side buddy. But over the last few years, it's been coming faster and hotter from the left then the right. Right up to politicians implying there needs to be blood in the streets.
But what are we running these days? 1 actual right-wing extremist vs a dozen or so from left-wing extremists. That is of course providing that he's actually a right-winger, since that seems to be a story in absolute flux at the moment too.
Om, nomnomnom...
I think people who show up to "counter-protest" these neo-Nazis are only feeding into the neo-Nazi narrative of left-wing oppression and (ultimately) violence.
All the counter protesters do is encourage press coverage, which in turn gives the Nazis the attention they crave, possibly even attracting the sympathies of people who would otherwise never consider any kind of White Nationalist agenda. I guarantee you there are now a bunch of armchair types who are sympathetic to the Nazis now.
The only other thing they do is stroke their own egos for "fighting back" and "taking a stand against Nazis". You're not changing the opinions of Nazis by counter-protesting, nor are you "stopping" any kind of fledgling Nazi movement.
They have been beating people up, for certain. But the murders will happen soon. Street violence radicalizes both sides. What will be your excuse then?
You idiots really need to read up on what Germany was like in the late 20s, early 30s. Hitler was not a foregone conclusion. The Communists could have won that fight just as easily and we would have been talking about a Soviet Germany. I'm not suggesting a conclusion that I would have found more desirable. I'm suggesting that they were strategically outmaneuvered, similar to how the Left in the US is continuously strategically outmaneuvered and ultimately loses all their fights.
The truth is that Hitler was a palatable alternative - someone who could hold the Right radicals together while having reasonable military bonafides that the conservative elites could tolerate. A key element of this was the ability of the Nazi brownshirts to at least hold their own and mostly best the KPD (German Communist) and Social Democrat paramilitary organizations. If Hitler could control the streets more or less, marshal a reasonable voting bloc and promise that he wouldn't upset the military-industrial complex in Germany...that's why he won.
Now translate that to today's political situation. A key constituent of this is fear amongst the general populace about their safety. In a certain way, the Fake News media is exacerbating the situation beyond all reasonableness and making totalitarianism a likely outcome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
What's ironic is they use fascist tactics. Beat everyone that opposes your viewpoint. They've been terrorizing every conservative event since the election. This is the first time they've actually run up against anyone as despicable as themselves.
By making editorial judgements on the websites you host, you've just lost safe harbour protection.
I look forward to the lawsuits that will follow.
The old terms are over-simplistic and may not be appropriate for all situations. Whether they believe in big gov't, small gov't, or purple gov't, they are "pro-Caucasian". That's the one thing they have in common; although each group may define it differently. For example, some are for mere separation of "races", saying mixing doesn't work and see the US being "polluted" by outside culture, while others claim Caucasians are genetically superior and therefore deserve to dominate.
Table-ized A.I.
And let the equivocation begin! Oh, those poor downtrodden Neo-nazis and White Supremacists. All they want to do is expel every black person, Latino, and anyone else in their long laundry list of people they hate.
Storm Front has the right to say what it wants. It has absolutely no right to force anyone else to carry the message for them.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Really? It's what they call themselves.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DH...
You are welcome on my lawn.
Then there would be room for a lawsuit.
Probably a Berkeley student...
...every bit of content they are part of serving.
This kind of short-term virtue signaling on the part of a corporation is going to have long-term consequences, when people use this precedent to make them responsible for every shitlord post ever made on anything they're connected to.
Next thing you know, they'll be coming after GoDaddy for comments on articles, and naughty memes.
Yeah, well, now they're a terrorist group that campaigns against free speech and uses violence to silence anyone who opposes them. If you don't know this, you're seriously out of touch and you should stop talking about them like you know something relevant.
Yes and it was the Republican Party that freed the slaves so black people should vote for them right?
If this band of losers had called themselves "The Sons of Liberty" or some other organization or movement, you'd hardly suddenly support them because Samuel Adams did something 200 years ago under a similar name. The Patriot Act should have taught you how meaningless a name is.
Think about how lucky we are that the Nazis won those fights. Had the Communists won, we would be living with an entire Communist Europe now because the leadership of America at the time (along with many since) was enamored with Communism and Uncle Joe.
Well, either he's a Nazi himself, or one of those pathetic alt-right types desperate to try to blame someone else for some repugnant Neo-nazi driving into a crowd of anti-Nazi protesters. Their champion, the current occupant of the Oval Office, is of similar mind, because he couldn't even bring himself to condemn a pack of evil White Supremacists. Just think about that, the President of the United States, the so-called "Leader of the Free World" is so afraid of angering his base that his direct utterances are basically exercises in moral equivalency, and it is left to others in his administration to insist that that represents an actual condemnation.
The United States has a immoral coward as its leader, but that's alright, since it appears his supporters are equally immoral and cowardly.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
"But... but... but what about Obama?" whine the Trumpettes, before moving on to "And what about Hillary?"
> Unless they're literal Nazis.
Were they all Nazis? There were some there, certainly. They were definitely forced to march single file through counterprotesters. Seems like the goal was to get some people hurt, make sure this couldn't happen peacefully. Is all the alt-right Nazis? Are all racists Nazis?
Seems like a dehumanization tactic, even if they were all racists, which could well be true.
I agree with you. And it should be a two-way street such that bakers are not required to create custom works of confectionary art to celebrate weddings they disapprove of.
Advocating violence != violence. Words are not actions.
What are you talking about with the Mormon reference? Why are you equating Mormons with Nazis?
You mean bike lock. You have your head in the sand if you think it's only name calling at this point.
Refusing to rent out your platform is not the same thing as censorship. They can still find their own way to get their word out. They can go build their own platform from which to shout hateful things. No one is stopping them, but by that same token, no private individual is under any sort of obligation to assist them in any way. Similarly, no one can be compelled to be a participant in their speech.
If you have a problem with that, go build your own platform. The biggest enemy to the free speech of nut jobs isn't the left: it's their false sense of entitlement that they are owed something by people and companies that actually owe them nothing.
In the US, I imagine you can presumably do both. In some other places, restrictions on arbitrary denial of service in public businesses would probably make both illegal. If you want to limit your customers, you can still found a private club or something.
Ezekiel 23:20
Yes, it's not the car that ran into people, it's morons that ran into the car... they should arrest the wounded in the hospital for terrorism, and release that nice gentleman that was just driving his car... right ?
yes, it's "not all muslims", just like it's "not all whites". because It's ISIS/al-qaeda and nazis/KKK/white-supremacist/alt-right, is that so hard to understand ?
Wouldn't a gay couple prefer to give their business to a cake maker that supports gays and likewise don't give business to anti-gay cake makers?
Perhaps a stereotype but would imagine that finding a cake maker that would want a gay or straight wedding cake business should not be so difficult in an industry with fairly low barriers to entry. So why fret over something so minor that can be worked around , it is just a cake. Wedding venues could be a larger conflict that followed finding an alternative more difficult.
Think hate speech not part of free speech but not exactly an expert on this subject. Don't know if web-site in question even applies. Plus net neutrality- which might support the undesired site right to exist, if no alternatives readily available.
Call for the extermination of a race and no one bats an eye
Call a woman fat and everyone loses their minds
They were in the dark web before. They can go back.
Cancelling the protest's permit mid-protest and forcing them to file out single-file through vastly superior numbers of antifa seems like maybe you are neither refuting nor extinguishing the flames, but hoping to cash in on the insurance check. There was violence out of both of these groups, but the "unite the right" guys seemed to draw the most blood and tragedy. But the whole thing seems fucked up. I'm sure the antifa and "alt-right" guys are both thrilled about the outcome, which means that the losers here are the rest of us.
They have been beating people up,
Because we have idiot politicians that tell the police to not intervene. Both in Berkeley and in Charlotesville. If the cops were allowed to keep the two groups separate and put down any violence before it erupts into a mob scene we wouldn't have this shit so common.
They do. But they are also the legislature (creating rules), judiciary (determining, whether a rule is broken), and executive (acting on such determination) at once. Whether their action is sincere, or simply seeking to avoid boycotts and/or DOSing, they are wrong.
I do hate Daily Stormer with passion — since 2014, when they dismissed all of Ukraine's figures as "Jews" — if GoDaddy was Ok with them before, there is no reason to kick them out now.
Certainly not with such haste... 24 hours to move a site? Ridiculous...
The massive outrage about this is curiously selective. The "alt-right" are blamed for the violence even though they held their gathering and were attacked by the counter-protesters, who've been viciously violent before. All of the reports about the car charging into a crowd mention "melees" and "skirmishes" already occurring prior to that in passing. Oh, that's because someone died? Well, there were politically-motivated attacks with a deadly weapon before — sheer luck, that asshole merely injured his victims.
Lastly, much as the Nazist symbols and racism annoy me, they clearly have no real following and thus pose little danger. Meanwhile, the symbols of Communists and other hate-groups (like Black Lives Matter) were also on display and those, despite being far deadlier, do not seem to outrage anyone...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
But what are we running these days? 1 actual right-wing extremist vs a dozen or so from left-wing extremists. That is of course providing that he's actually a right-winger, since that seems to be a story in absolute flux at the moment too.
How in hell can you justify that statement? I'll answer your three with the Portland stabbing, Timothy Caughman killing a black guy in the street to prevent white women from having interracial relationships, Alexandre Bissonnette shooting up a mosque and Dylan Roof. I'm up two my my count and that is just what I could think of off the top of my head. The body count is a lot higher on your side.
If you're not a Nazi, what would you be doing marching in a parade with Nazis.
As they say, if the shoe fits...
You are welcome on my lawn.
...is some of the most brutal bastard ideology. As soon as they rule, they aim to root out any competing ideology-religion.
The fact that the lefties support them is a simple matter of "enemy of my enemy is my friend". As soon as the Mohammedists rule, they will dispose of the lefties with all the brutishness required. Like dropping them off roofs, throwing acid in their faces and of course circumcision of women.
THAT is what the Antifa thugs fight for.
You clearly don't know what the word meant, ever.
Antifa has ALWAYS been violent, you can consider that a bad thing - they believe they are fighting against evil. And they were US allies in the war.
But what they are not is, in any way, subscribers to fascist ideology. Punching somebody is a far-cry from being a fascist, ESPECIALLY when you're punching fascists. Neither does censorship make you fascist. Nor even authoritarianism.
These are all things that fascists did - but they are not exclusive to fascism, not symptomatic of fascism, nor a requirement FOR fascism.
On the other hand the idea that a country or state should be dominated by a particular cuture or race - that IS a defining attribute of fascism. The original NAZIs were fascists as well. The Neo-NAZIs remain so. Richard Spencer is an absolute fascist. Dozens of people in Charlottesville were waviing signs with the fasces on it (a bunch of axes tied together) - literally the symbol of fascism and in fact, the origin of the word.
The word STILL means what it meant in 1929 and using it to mean whatever the fuck you want it to mean achieves only two things:
1) it makes YOU look like an uneducated idiot
2) It gives cover to actual fascists to continue posing a danger to the entire world.
Neither of these are good outcomes.
You may think AntiFa's violence is no longer justified, I would argue that this weekend proved otherwise - but to call them fascist is merely to prove you don't understand what fascism was or why it was evil. You associate some of the things that some fascists did with the concept and call all who do those things fascists - all you do is make the most evil people on the planet look less evil by claiming that less evil people are on par with them. By your reasoning every republican who ever banned porn is a fascist too. After all - fascists did censorship right ? Every dictator no matter if they were a communist or a far right capitalist is a fascist by your stupid definition - even though they would not agree on ANYTHING.
It's not some catch-all word that describes everybody from Pinochet to Stalin.
It describes a particular ideology - that of Musolini, Hitler and their modern incarnates. Nobody, NOBODY else qualifies. The most fascist leader in the world today is Donald Trump. He subscribes to the overwhelming majority of the fascist ideology. That and that ALONE can qualify anybody for the name. It's the name of a certain ideology - nothing else.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
This is my fear as well. The campaigns being done against the Nazi protestors are not of dismantling their rhetoric or showing how silly it is, but active and overt censorship. The reason why the KKK was nearly obliterated was that all their rhetoric was mocked, to the point where there were Superman comic books were published making fun of very facet of the organization.
Now, they are back. We could disassemble and show how pathetic Nazi propaganda is, from the failed strategies, to debunking Hitler's rantings. We can give light on how pathetic every single item of what they hold dear is, shedding the light of reason on what they keep hidden. But, no, we go for censorship and kicking it under the rug. This type of ideology is like Daesh's. It feeds on censorship and only gets stronger when people try to hide it.
Yes, it appeases the SJW types that these sites are kicked off mainstream domains. However, they will just take on a .ONION tag and only get worse, because once accessible only via TOR, there is no way to monitor or police what traffic goes to and from the sites.
Now, there is the other issue why people are grasping at this crap in the first place: Other than the "blessed" cities with high tech industries, the US has been in a recession since 2008. Try looking for IT work in Indianapolis, Philly, Detroit, or one of the Rust Belt cities. Try looking for -any- work in more rural areas. There isn't any to be found. People are desparate, and it is government checks that keep them from becoming homeless. Meth is a symptom of how desparate things are there.
Look at how hard to kill Daesh is, where every defeat militarily rallies the troops. The same pressure that has turned Daesh into a worldwide menace can easily cause the Nazi rhetoric to grow, especially in an area where people have nothing to lose by sporting it.
tl;dr, lets leave the Nazi websites alone, to fade away in their own stupidity than give it the Streisand Effect and kick them to the dark web.
Don't be a part of that. Ignore them, move on and leave them behind.
Yeah, because that worked so well in Germany in the 30s.
Can AT&T deny nazi's a phone line? Why do we allow nazi's to have phone lines?
Well maybe not. I saw a story about the alt-right creating its own airbnb, uber etc because those orgs banned alt-right. Specifically airbnb canceled some reservations for alt-right members for this rally. Don't think because these people think like cavemen that they are. Never underestimate. Ask the germans about wwii. I don't think it will happen here, but consider, you have trump, you have his white nationalist supporters coming out from the shadows, and no one is actually doing anything, IE impeaching him. Just alot of talk. Clearly talk is not stopping anything. The problem has gotten worse since he was elected and there has already been alot of talk. It is beyond time for the congress to move forward with impeachment. I'd think given how trump has insulted ryan, mcconnell, cruz, rubio, ... they'd get started. I don't like pence much either, but I don't expect him to be a nazi-lover like trump.
As usual, some anonymous coward on the Internet is defending Nazis.
I have a hard time calling them Nazis. The Nazis ran one of the most horrible and efficient genocides of all time and built a war machine that took the rest of the continent and much of the world to fight off. These are just shit head white supremacists that were leftovers scraped
Just because they're incompetent doesn't make then any less Nazis - just not as efficient as the 1930/40's, German, version
If your business model relies on not alienating Nazis, then there may be bigger problems than your profit/loss statement.
See also: Current US government.
The only (slight) worry I have over this is that such sites will start burrowing into the Dark Web, where the general public cannot see and ridicule them for what they are
This. What ever happened to allowing racists to speak openly and mock them for it and prove their points wrong with facts and evidence? They are taken seriously now which is what they want. To be taken seriously.
Punching somebody is a far-cry from being a fascist, ESPECIALLY when you're punching fascists. Neither does censorship make you fascist. Nor even authoritarianism.
You can stop right there so as to not waste anyone else's time. YES, violence is coercion, period. It's an act of statism. the Antifa are no less fascist than the DPRK is democratic.
Life is not for the lazy.
GoDaddy can refuse service for any reason to any person... kind of. There are protected classes laws, and so you can't refuse service for being black. Likewise, you can't refuse service for displaying gang signs and posting pictures of yourself with marijuana if there is a pattern of refusing service for such things significantly more-frequently to blacks, because it is obvious to a reasonable person that you are denying many simply for being black--and this becomes a more-dependable position as the proportion changes, right up to the point where few non-black customers get ejected when behaving in such a manner and so and nobody is buying your bullshit.
A reasonable person might assume GoDaddy doesn't want to associate with this person for any number of reasons--such as their political opinions--and that they have tolerated this person as a customer in the past. The person's behavior in mocking a victim of brutal murder might, reasonably, be the sort of thing which GoDaddy simply isn't going to tolerate, even if you have some sort of case for being a protected class by your political opinions (California), race, sexuality, etc. in connection with your use of the service. A reasonable person examining the situation would give some weight to the reactionary argument--that the customer did a thing, and that thing was so intolerable that it transcends all other concerns, and so discrimination against protected classes isn't a factor.
So in this case, GoDaddy can get away with this easily enough. They're also supporting free speech by tolerating this user for a further 24 hours so that he can get his site backed up, possibly transferred, and keep running--just without their involvement. They haven't taken his domain and his hosting hostage, or blocked him from accessing his own material. It appears to me they've taken every moral high-ground they can get and told him to move along out of their sights.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
I can cosplay a Jedi but that doesn't make me a Jedi.
If I run a server, and I don't like you saying nazi shit on my server, you can fuck off. Cry censorship all you want. Set up your own fucking server and spout nazi shit on that. End of story.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
And the Democratic Party was supporting slavery in the 19th century — and still had a KKK "Grand Wizard" among it Senators until his recent death.
Whether it is "the same" or not, it is openly violent and favors the ever-increasing government control of the means of production. Which makes them very very Fascist.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Corporations aren't legally people. They're legal entities which can shield their members from certain liabilities in some situations, although there are many situations which will legally pierce the corporate veil.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
Very well, you antifa kids are welcome to march on Washington to take out the President. High-velocity rifle bullets will make mincemeat of you. :)
Actually as far as I am aware, they only beat fascists.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
They have rules and any site that violates them are subject to them. Supporting violence should certainly get anyone booted.
Well, let's hope they apply the same rules to the self-styled "Antifa" facists.
Anti-fascists are fascists. OK. This is more of this black is white, up is down bollocks Trump supporting dickheads never stop coming out with. Eventually, even idiots will be sick of your shit.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
They have rules and any site that violates them are subject to them. Supporting violence should certainly get anyone booted.
The problem is, when you take a side once you are expected to take sides in the future, and you'll get pressure to do so. Take down Nazis today, tomorrow someone will want you to take down anti-abortion activists, pro-abortion activists, advocates for bombing North Korea, pizza parlors hypothetically refusing to cater hypothetical gay weddings, climate change "deniers", etc. You might even expose yourself to lawsuits if you don't take down a group and somebody does something bad because they read about it there.
There's a reason web hosters have generally avoided becoming embroiled in these controversies in the past: self interest.
There's actually less transparency when using pseudonyms like "Wootery" or "Kierthos".
The public at large knows for a fact that "Anonymous Coward" is multiple people. They can even prove this to themselves if they want by commenting as "Anonymous Coward", knowing full well that somebody else posted the other "Anonymous Coward" comments.
But that's not true for pseudonyms like "Wootery" and "Kierthos".
The public can't know for sure that multiple people aren't using each or both of those accounts.
The public can't know for sure that the same person isn't using both of those accounts, and perhaps other accounts.
There's much more certainty and transparency surrounding "Anonymous Coward", and much less certainty and transparency surrounding pseudonyms like "Wootery" and "Kierthos" and "AmiMoJo" and "PopeRatzo" and "creimer".
The body count is a lot higher on your side.
So we're running with organizations are people now are we? Kinda missed the point of both my posts didn't you. Yep, not all muslims here...
Om, nomnomnom...
It's debatable if Trump is the strongest Fascist leader at the moment or not, given the issues in The Philippines and in Russia, but as far as the power of the nation he theoretically leads, definitely.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Antifa, BLM, KKK, Nazis, they are all just different acts in the same Shit Show. They are all extremists and bigots who think the other side has no right to express an opinion, or even live.
You, focusing on "rednecks" are also exhibiting a bigoted opinion.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
If the WS groups are pushed off their normal sites, they are smart enough to go download a TOR browser and bookmark a .onion site. Once this is done, they are well out of the reach of police and groups like the SPLC.
I wonder if we are making another Daesh, which only thrives, the more attacks it withstands. At the minimum, we will see a Nazi piratebay-like site that gets killed one place, only to pop up somewhere else.
Yeah mate, water is dry. I know. Hey, you know gravity pulls upward? Try it at the next high bridge you pass.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Angka cake for teh WIN!
Especially considering the rampage of the Commies in Russia BEFORE 1933. From 1917 on, the commies slaughtered millions in Russia. Hitler's teachers were Uljanov and Tshershinsky. And the teachers of those were the thugs who murdered in scores in France 1789.
Don't fall for these brutish bastards who think they are "good" because they fight Nazis. Many of them (especially the ANTIFA thugs) are just mobsters who work for international corporations and banksters these days.
Long live the memory of General Franco, who rooted out the threat in his country. He was NOT a fascist, but of course the lefties label him like that. Spain would have been a second Russia with millions killed in cold blood without the General discharging his duties properly.
You legitimize someone when you no platform them.
Hate speech is not illegal. There is no such thing as hate speech. The nazi's and racists have ever right to voice their dumb opinion. When you actively silence them you legitimize them.
The activities of BLM and Antifa have nothing at all to do with Liberalism in the classic sense.
Leftist Extremest in the same tradition of Brownshirts and Bolsheviks. They seek to oppress and harm those that disagree with them.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
If you have only a single dimension of politics and it is "left-rigjht", then you are quite naive.
Nazis and Commies share a lot, which you can see in the name "National Sozialistisch". Hitler was a revolutionary like Lenin and equally brutish. But for some fscking reason you can be a commie fanboy and have a career. Why ???
You do realize that their actions have proved them to be more "fascist" than those they accuse of Fascism, right?
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Are they Confederate Nazi's then since they've got the battle flag flag proudly on display as well? They're adopting the symbols of other groups (that shared some or many of their views) in order to bolster their own self-image, and to some degree to garner attention. They don't see the Nazi's as bad, they see the Nazi's as people who shared some of their ideas and were really successful and want to be able to project that they'll be successful and powerful too.
They're too weak (and unoriginal) to create their own original banner, so they rely on some idea of they past they've glorified instead. I'll be far more worried when they unite under a new banner, a banner that doesn't carry any historical significance that might set off some alarm bells for people getting involved. You're not going to fool anyone when you walk around waving a Nazi flag and of those who do rally under it, many will only leave after experiencing the dreadful life that comes along with such causes, and some are beyond any redemption, being true believers in their cause.
They're a bunch of sad wanna-be's and I suspect that the sooner the world can help them realize that, the sooner some of them will quit.
Well then it's nice to see that no matter where you begin it's entirely possible to lose sight of your original purpose and find yourself becoming what you loath given enough time. The world just keeps on changing like that.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
You might want to read up on Uljanov and Tshershinsky who are in the same class of murdering as Hitler. Don't fudge the facts, just because the newspapers are filled with lefty sympathizers or because Google leadership leans leftish.
Thugs are thugs because of what they do. Not because they have or have not nice propaganda on their side.
someone hit dudes car with a bat right before he stepped on the gas. i wouldnt be shocked if we dont see these murder charged dropped all together or at least downgraded to involuntary manslaughter
probably not, most normal people have no idea who pol pot is
I never said it wasn't coercion. But it can only be an act of STATISM if it's the STATE doing the punching.
And NEITHER of those things is fascism.
Fascism is NOT a word that means "statism" OR coercion. Those have FUCKALL to do with what the word means
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Yet, AT&T can't deny a phone line to a nazi. I keep hearing in the net neutrality threads that the internet is necessary for modern participation. If that is true then you have to have the same protections.
They are worse than Fascists: they are Communists. Hitler was a piker and killed fewer than 10 million. Stalin and Mao killed around 160 million between them.
Both groups are brutal totalitarian statists with a history of killing millions, but you can have anarcho-communists, while fascists celebrate order. You could really see the difference between the two mobs this weekend - the Fascists looked much better organized. But don't let that deceive anyone, Communists are far more dangerous.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Sue them for what reason? Have you read Go Daddy's terms of service that people agree to?
You will not use this Site or the Services in a manner (as determined by GoDaddy in its sole and absolute discretion) that:
Is illegal, or promotes or encourages illegal activity;
Promotes, encourages or engages in terrorism, violence against people, animals, or property;
Corporations are absolutely entitled to have opinions on social matters.
Just like how Obama didn't call the BLM protester who killed 5 cops in Dallas a terrorist.
.
Yes, yes, you want to make them out to be terrorists so you can dismiss and ignore them further.
"Oh, but that's different!" No, it really isn't.
Ok, tell us what isn't different about the actual response by Obama versus Trump. Compare and contrast.
Both BLM and the Nazis need to go...they're both breeding violent, hate-filled people.
All evidence indicates that Micah Xavier Johnson had mental health issues that long predated the formation of BLM, with no substantial connection to the movement.
That's why those lawsuits keep losing.
The government is bound to allow free speech. A corporation doesn't have to put up with things they find objectionable. There are other options for those pushing hate and GoDaddy is certainly in the right here.
This is one of those very tough cases, to be honest. I believe that a website disparaging a counterproster at a nazi protest is utterly repulsive, and I didn't see the website so I don't know if they were encouraging others to do the same (the article [yes, I read it] is unclear on the exact content), but for the sake of argument let's assume the site simply discussed their twisted agenda and said lots of very mean and repulsive things, but did not make an explicit call to violence.
GoDaddy does not want to host the site. Fine. Will Twitter allow them to keep an account? I mean, they seem to turn a blind eye toward ISIS, but they too are a private company and don't have to enforce their ToS evenly. Let's assume Amazon does the same thing and disallows them to use AWS, and let's also assume Google blacklists the domain from ever showing up on a web search, because 'a corporation doesn't have to put up with things they find objectionable'.
Will their ISP disconnect their account if they set up their own web server and point their domain toward their own self-hosted web server if the ISP finds their message objectionable?
Freedom of Speech has had two interrelated issues in the information age. The first is that even free speech was far more limited when it was 'a dude on a soapbox' vs. 'another dude on a soapbox', or more specifically, printing presses and 'a dude on a horse', because the distribution model was still far more limited than what we have today. Would the first amendment have been phrased differently if it was viable to foresee this very situation at that time? I don't know.
The second issue is what I dub 'the corporate abstraction layer'. The government can't do X, but a corporation can, and the government can compel a corporation to do X, so X is done. The government gets to point to the corporation to prove they didn't do it, the corporation gets to point to the government compelling them to do it, and thus there are few repercussions to either. The government is bound to allow free speech, of which 'posting on the internet' has been included as per a number of court decisions. However, every means of exercising that right, at some point, passes through a corporation which is not required to adhere to the first amendment if they sufficiently disagree with the content.
We now find ourselves in this problematic situation. I loathe everything this group stands for and sincerely wish they would all stop. However, I do believe they have a right to place their message on the internet. GoDaddy is in a pretty bad spot right now, because they can either stand for free speech by siding with a group that is highly unpopular in the court of public opinion. For them to do so would likely result in a boycott, mass domain migration, and no shortage of bad press. For them, it would be the worst possible hill to die on, especially since it gives them a better public standing to ban them. On the other hand, they have set a precedent of banning 'sufficiently unpopular speech', which nobody cares about 'now'. 'First they came for the neonazis'...
Thus, we have found ourselves in a place where free speech is no longer a right, but a privilege granted by some combination of actuarial tables, NSLs, and the court of public opinion. As terrible and abhorrent as these protesters are, it is this very type of situation for which the first amendment must be clearly defined in the 21st century, and a platform be given equally for unpopular ideas as popular ones.
Thank you Slashdot, for allowing me to post my unpopular opinion.
Nazis are real. Jedi's are make believe. If somebody calls themselves a nazi, I'm not going to sit around and wait for them to start taking over a country and gassing people to prove the name applies.
This thread is full of ladies doth protesting too much.
"Old man yells at systemd"
That's because telephone service falls under "common carrier" rules. I completely agree that internet service should fall under the exact same rules.
I don't understand, where's the Net Neutrality crowd to excoriate Godaddy?
I think that counter protests to things like this are good. You could make just as much argument that if no one shows up that these's idiots will feel emboldened or as though the whole country agrees with them but are just too scared to come out and join them. To some degree no matter what you do, people in groups like that are going to look to rationalize any action at all to feed the internal narrative they've constructed.
However, I think counter protests should be a lot more clever. You can't really fight groups like this using a fire with fire type of approach. Instead you need to do something that mocks them while making them feel their demonstration is counter-productive. Here's a news article about how one German town handled a similar march/demonstration a few years back. Just watch the video included in the article and see how deflated a lot of those people look.
Indeed, from a legal perspective, you are right. I don't think anyone is claiming the GoDaddy is breaking a law here.
However, look past that at the SPIRIT of the 1st amendment. It is designed to make sure that free discussion of ideas is allowed. This protection is only necessary for UNPOPULAR ideas, else the whole thing would be redundant.
So, you basically have to ask yourself:
1. Is freedom of speech an actual good idea, as a concept, or
2. Is freedom of speech some pesky technicality of the constitution that we're legally bound by but don't really support.
If your answer is 2, then we agree to disagree. If it's #1, then while I don't think GoDaddy did anything wrong, and I don't think they should be subject to any legal action as a private corporation, I DO find it distasteful that they'd censor a website due to it containing legal but unpopular content.
One's course of action should ALWAYS be to voice a dissenting opinion against things you don't support - not to try and silence it. Ironically, my guess is that by GoDaddy pulling this stunt, the site will simply move providers, and will gain a ton of publicity to a page that otherwise would likely have been silently ignored.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Awwww, pity the poor Nazis, who went equipped full paramilitary with riot shields, metal poles, pepper spray, and firearms and managed to kill someone in an act of terrorism.
The fact that Nazi scum hate antifa so much implies antifa are doing a good job. In fact, the more outrage I hear from Nazis about them, the more I like them.
We have the freedom to enter this into /etc/hosts:
127.0.0.1 google.com
127.0.0.1 www.google.com
There is yandex, there is YaCY and there is bing. Why support the crypto-communists who want to erect their global do-gooder-tyranny ?
Stallman is right, the corporations are about dominating people and of course they first want to dominate their employees. FUCK THAT !
Unfortunately, "putting down violence" requires violence. Some times brutal violence.
The brutal violence, which, however necessary and unavoidable, would be on Twitter, Facebook and YouTube within seconds — shot from the angles and edited for emphasizing the brutality while hiding, what made it necessary and unavoidable.
We are the idiots, and our politicians reflect that... Especially, Democratic politicians, I might add...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Are you trying to pack in how many ways you can be wrong in the most efficient manner possible?
"Old man yells at systemd"
If they are the only providers of landlines in the area, then no, as there are federal statutes that state that everybody should be able to call emergency services if they need to. And by that, I don't mean run two miles to the nearest phonebooth only to find it vandalised.
"Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
The lefties call for rules when it suites them. They whine about the rules when they benefit somebody else.
In short, lefties hate rules. Especially those who enable open discussion and fair balance of interests. They are mafia scumbags, face it.
And nothing changes by the fact that lots of globalist-internationalist corporations USE the lefties for their purposes.
No I'm going with you are defending people committing violence and denying that it is happening. That puts you on their side.
Really? So you'd agree to strict laws so that no corporation can ever contribute either money or in kind (goods, airtime,e tc) to any candidate or party?
Great! And that means lobbying is made illegal, also. Sounds great to me.
And shut down Faux "Right-wing Republicans only" News completely, yes?
Storm Front has the right to say what it wants. It has absolutely no right to force anyone else to carry the message for them.
I'm glad you feel that way. Do you feel the same about the cake bakers forced to bake cakes for gays in order to carry their message?
If one person is forced to carry a message for a group they disagree with, then all will be forced. That is the future we look forward to.
I think it would have been much easier to embrace freedom by not forcing anyone to do anything they disagree with. The left will eat their tyrannical, liberty-killing laws before it's all said and done.
Ok agreed. Now can we please discuss the actual neo-nazis.
Clearly you want to protect the actual neo-nazis that are parading through the streets. We've been pepper spraying antifa for awhile and nobody actually takes them seriously anyhow.
Except for you.... whenever you need to defend nazis running over people with cars and marching through the streets with tiki torches.
Well, yes and no.
The theory is that government, as the agent of the governed, promotes ideals the governed wish to see established. There may be a tension between some of those ideals, such as free speech and the expression of views the majority of the governed may find odious. Corporations may be forced to put up with things they find objectionable, such as paying for employee health care plans that offer contraceptive services. In this case GoDaddy can say they're booting The Daily Stormer because their speech is odious, but they're really doing it for economic reasons.
(And that's OK! Economic pressure is a legitimate means of driving change. In this case the form of the victory is enough, even if its substance can be questioned.)
But a corporation's scope for censoring speech is limited by the norms society imposes, whether de jure or de facto. If it were so inclined GoDaddy might have a hard time booting a site promoting marriage equality because that's a norm a majority of the governed want to promote.
What I'm saying is that GoDaddy is right because you and I both agree with the result (so it pleases us), but it might also be right to allow the site to remain because these idiots have a right to their hateful opinions (so it satisfies our societal norm regarding free speech).
He condemned hatred on both sides because there is racism and hatred on both sides. The only reason why there has been this reassurance of white supremacy is because white racism is fashionable and the left have been "feeding the trolls" so to speak.
Censoring, no platforming, and violently protesting legitimizes anyone.
* Block all Communist websites, too. They murdered at least as many as the Nazis
* Ban quite a few of your Anglo poster boy "authors". They were communist murderers, too.
* Watch out what the corporations have in stock for you, as soon as the American nation has been erased.
* Outlaw Mohammedism, because it is also an ideology of "convert or kill". Which they have proven time and again.
I'd rather see them skinned alive and slowly lowered in to an acid pit feet first on live tv.
If anti-abortion activists are encouraging violence or terrorism then I do hope Go Daddy would give them the boot too.
Pizza parlors refusing to cater to gays isn't a violation of Go Daddy's Terms of Service. So try sticking to a hypothetical that applies.
Go Daddy doesn't host their website.
False equivalency - the fascists would deny rights or even life itself to groups of people, antifa are counter protesting those who support genocide, there is no moral gray area here.
We're not talking about obama. We're talking about how much you love nazis.
Please let's stay on topic.
There's a fairly huge difference between a company saying they won't host a particular website and a company saying they'll block traffic to a particular website.
Seems to me that GoDaddy has just invalidated any safe harbor legal provisions they might be operating under. Now, they've shown that they can and will monitor the content they host. They are now liable for damages for any content they host.
That is not correct. See Pruneyard Shopping Center v. Robins. Scotus said, per Wikipedia: "...under the California Constitution, individuals may peacefully exercise their right to free speech in parts of private shopping centers regularly held open to the public..."
You do refute them. You let them speak. You make fun of them and their position. You make them a joke. You don't legitimize them with no-platform, censorship, and violence.
The problem with most of these corporations is that they only do it halfheartedly, if it gets them in the media or is the politically correct thing to do, then they'll follow up on it but on the other hand they continue hosting sites in the same vein on either or both sides of the spectrum. If they were honest about these things, they would kick off pretty much every alt-right and alt-left blog and the majority of Holocaust-denying, Nazi, BLM and 3rd wave feminist scum web site.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Attention is not their fuel. Hatred is their fuel. Ignoring them will not stop their hatred.
That same young and mutable you fear could just as easily think, "They must be OK because nobody's saying otherwise". Instead, the young and mutable need to see everyone saying "this is not acceptable".
Don't be a Corporatist Pussy:
1. Run your own Raspberry PI based Server at you DSL line
2. Stop using Facebook, Google, Twitter. They are all evil corporations in cahoots with the ANTIFA thugs who have Gulags instead of Konzentrationslager for you. It kills just as nicely and massively. See Russia and China,
3. Use GNUpg. Why have Zuckerbug in the loop ?
4. Use Linux or the BSDs. Why buy a NSA operating system like Windows, complete with key logger ???
5. Use YaCY, bing and yandex instead of Crypt Communist Google.
Brownshirts had the democratic socialist label but they were not leftist in the least.
Your comparison of antifa to Nazis is about as stupid as you can get.
Your Utopia is big unregulated corporations censoring and shutting down opposition and firing people.
Trying to get away from something? He accelerated down a long, mostly empty street before plowing into the other vehicle/crowd. If you want to get away from somebody you turn down one of the side streets he passed before crashing into a CROWD of people.
You must have been watching a completely different video. 6 people chasing him with bats? You could see him looking in his rear view mirror and actually could discern expressions on his face? People did chase him as he started roaring past them TOWARDS a crowd of people that completely blocked the street ahead. He didn't turn onto a side street, he didn't back up until after he killed and maimed. Then he was perfectly able to back up and escape. But in your mind he had no choice but to drive down a mostly empty street and plow into a crowd of people out of fear.
You're part of the problem because you clearly actually believe what you wrote.
I could call myself Mary, Queen of Scots, but that doesn't make it so.
This pretty tiara and my massive land holdings, however, do.
What's my point? Anybody can name anything whatever they want, and it doesn't matter - what matters is the actions that are committed on behalf of the name.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
I would agree with you, if everyone was up front about who they're refusing service to.
But that bakery that is run by bigoted homophobes doesn't give me any way to know they're bigoted assholes beforehand. So, if I was a customer of theirs, it would only be possible because they're not being transparent. You may be okay in supporting people with hidden hateful agendas, but I'm generally not.
In contrast, GoDaddy has me agree to their terms of service when I sign up.
And, of course, it's easy (as many people here do) to confuse these issues. Lots of people here are supporting hate. So they support the hateful bigoted bakers and they're against GoDaddy for not supporting hateful bigoted Nazis, neo-Nazis, and traitorous Confederate lovers. And lots of people here seem to be using "libertarian" views in a way to support hate. Whatever melts your butter.
Anti-fascists are fascists. OK.
I see you've been spending a lot of time in your safe space echo chamber, eh Maritz? Antifa, regardless of their name is using fascist tactics to accomplish their goals. What exactly would you call that? These white nationalist people are probably all a bunch of scumbags. That doesn't mean you get to show up at their events and hit them with bike locks.
This is more of this black is white, up is down bollocks Trump supporting dickheads never stop coming out with. Eventually, even idiots will be sick of your shit.
Modern liberalism, ladies and gentlemen. More anger and childish name calling from the "tolerant" left. People like you are why HRC lost the election.
Antifa are not terrorist in the least, but they are victims of neoNazi terrorism.
There sure is a lot of bullshit being spread about this attack.
I'll keep that in mind the next time Islamists attack, and see the likes of you with your moral outrage hanging out.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Indeed you can, because Jedi never existed and don't exist.
Nazi's did and do. Those who dress up as Nazi's aren't just having some cosplay fun.
Not true. The water company can't cut you off because they don't like your politics. Some companies are considered common carriers and thus must operate under the same non-discrimination boundaries as the government.
I actually do feel the same about the cake bakers, and find forcing anyone to write a message on a cake that they disagree with wrong.
But really, that's simply more equivocation. As shitty as treating bakers badly with well-intentioned by ill-begotten equality laws is bad, having the President of the United States too frightened to call out a pack of Nazis is a whole other thing entirely. But i get it, you need to feel like somehow a metaphorical stubbed toe is the same as a literal car attack.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Hopefully everyone else will make them equally glad.
BTW, Go Daddy didn't host their website.
That is not true. The water company can't cut you off because they don't like your politics. Some companies are considered common carriers and therefore must abide by the same discrimination laws of the government.
A public business is not allowed to discriminate based on race, sex, or sexual orientation. Nazis are not a race, a sex, or a sexual orientation.
Also, those Christian bakers can declare their business a private club and tack on a $2 membership fee for the first cake a customer orders that year. Then they could be as bigoted as they want. However, that doesn't make nearly as much money as screaming "I'm being oppressed by teh gayz!!".
If Fascism is "exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.", then today's Antifa hits 3/4 of the same points. Antifa today are Statists who forcibly suppress the individual by exalting government itself.
Here's why. There was only one Horst Wessel, but millions of stormtroopers. All with his song on their lips. These 'unemployables' will provide moral (I am aware of the irony there) support to many times their number of believers that the "inclusive" Left is the bane of their existence and should be violently thwarted. They serve their purpose in raising the temperature in the already hothouse political environment.
I mean, if you urban bubble people want to keep your heads firmly thrust within it and fail to acknowledge the lessons of history, go right ahead, but there's going to be a shocking revelation to you in the not too distant future.
Phone service (the POTS variety, anyway) is classified as a "common carrier" and by law must be operated in a content neutral fashion.
The internet is not. This is, by the way, what the push for net neutrality is trying to fix. Well, work around, since actually declaring ISPs as common carriers -- as correct as that would be technically, socially, and in terms of business development -- is currently politically impossible.
Go Daddy doesn't deny people name services for being Nazi's.
Try to understand why Go Daddy canceled their service.
AT&T has terms of service also and they can cancel phone service for violating it, whether the violator is a Nazi or the Girl Scouts of America.
What do you mean by "the dark web"?
The dark web is simply that portion of the web that isn't indexed by search engines. Most of it is just individuals running servers for their own private use.
The water company is a state company where I live and thus subject to its own regulations.
Ezekiel 23:20
True, I didn't mention common carriers and the like. But GoDaddy (or any other webhosting company) doesn't fall under any of those classifications.
Anti-terrorism laws apply to that kind of extremist content.
You can create a web site that more-or-less says "ISIS is awesome" without government interference.
You can not use that web site to urge people to join, financially support, or commit terrorist acts for ISIS.
Similarly, as long as this site does not try to incite violence, they can put the same site up at a new provider. And thanks to the legal efforts of the anti-abortion movement, you have to be extremely explicit to be considered inciting violence. "Won't somebody rid us of this terrible person? Their home address is _____ and they don't wear a bullet proof vest. Looks like the back door might be easy to kick in." is not sufficient.
Go Daddy refused service because their terms of service was violated. Their terms of service violation wasn't based on the race, sex, gender or sexual preference.
Bakers make cakes, they are perfectly free to refuse to make cakes the have wording on them that promote illegal activities or encourage violence. They don't have to make a cake for an antifa group where the cake says "Punch a Nazi in the face". But they don't get to refuse to make cakes for black people because the baker doesn't like black people. The barber next door doesn't get to have a sign on his door saying "NO CHRISTIANS" either.
He condemned hatred on both sides because there is racism and hatred on both sides.
No, there isn't, that's the point, it's part of the narrative to convince us there is some kind of equivalency. I suppose there may be some pure souls who simply deplore violence, but that isn't the real purpose of the signaling, which is to try to create an appearance that the other side are also wrong.
Trump, is playing into that, either deliberately, or obtusely. It is a common tactic, after all. Sometimes they even make themselves out to be as innocent as lambs.
They do like to play the martyred victim.
Trump, himself, having liked to exploit that, however, made himself vulnerable to the counter, because his very silence on the issue, means he's now the one who won't call a terrorist a terrorist.
The only reason why there has been this reassurance of white supremacy is because white racism is fashionable and the left have been "feeding the trolls" so to speak.
You sure there is only one reason? Nothing else a factor?
But yes, yes, the racists and bigots have always had a tendency to go "Look what you made me do" as they stir up resentment and animosity. You're not wrong there.
Censoring, no platforming, and violently protesting legitimizes anyone.
You should really re-examine your thinking there.
I don't know about that. It didn't stop loads of people from buying and selling drugs through the silk road or any of the people who are using it for peddling child porn or other illegal services. It's pretty unlikely that all of those people started off as computer savvy individuals. I suspect it only adds to the illusion of persecution that so many of these idiots believe that they face and makes it more appealing. You're also introducing them to the dark web where they can probably get involved in other kinds of illegal activities as well or find ways to purchase illegal weapons, etc.
I don't think they'll go that route either as its a lot easier to self-host a website, or at least it doesn't require the same level of technical knowledge as setting up a presence on the dark web. I think its far better to just leave it on the web, where it's just as easy to signal boost websites and messages to help people avoid falling into hatred. Once you drive them further underground, you've also driven them further away from viewpoints that might allow them to get away from their echo chamber.
No it isn't.
They're also free to start their own hosting company. The first amendment doesn't require others to let you use their press. In an ideal world every company would agree with you, but we don't live there and if GoDaddy thinks being associated with these people will hurt their business then they're obligated to ditch them.
Who's going to provide them upstream bandwidth? Comcast? Level3? Cogent? i.e. private companies worried that being associated with these people will hurt their business?
Reduced to defending cold blooded nazi murderers, you are pathetic.
People who go to neo-nazi websites aren't looking for the truth.
Most people complaining about "MSM lies" aren't looking for the truth either.
Alt-right can feel whatever butthurt it wants over this, there is no problem with a business canceling a customer due to their hate propaganda.
You bleeding-heart SJWs are really something.
The original Nazis were also a bunch of sad wanna-be's, until they got their leader in power. Then, they had to be put down like dogs. The Charlottesville Nazis now have their leader in power. That's why they believed they could march around throwing up Nazi salutes and chanting "Heil Trump".
You are welcome on my lawn.
Fascism has a very specific meaning. Go dust off your dictionary and stop being such a moron.
Corporations should not have opinions on social matters. I would sue GoDaddy with extreme prejudice if I was this lady. For one million or more.
Even so it sounds like a Bond Girl, "Daily Stormer" is not a lady.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Sure. Host your own server. Just don't register your domain with GoDaddy.
No, you can't refuse service because of race, sex, or sexual orientation.
Except that's not why many of the cake bakers refused service. Instead, they refused service due to their own religious beliefs, which conflicted with something someone wanted printed on a cake, not the race, sex, or sexual orientation of the customer.
In any case, we should always err on the side of one's freedom to not be forced to do something they don't want to do, whether it be to bake a cake with a message you disagree with or to publish a website on your server that you disagree with.
One way or another this double-standard will end. If the left has it's way, GoDaddy would be forced to publish Storm Front's hate speech. That's what happens when we devise laws against freedom, even if they appear to be an easy solution to a very complex problem.
They can build their own damn Internet and post it there.
Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
When Allied troops were fighting Nazis in Europe during WW2, were those allied troops fascist? Since they were using violence against the Nazis?
Sometimes it's right to fight hateful ideologies with violence.
Don't forget Catholics. Everyone always forgets Catholics.
You legitimize someone when you provide them a platform
cannot hold a job or participate in civilized society (and evidently are quite bitter about it), they demonstrate that they manage to eke out an existence on the fringes
Urm, I though they had white privilege... I'm told they all live in easy mode where the world steps aside and provides them with every benefit of the doubt.
Can AT&T deny an actual neo-nazi access to a phone line? Either the internet is necessary for modern convenience and must be protected as such or it isn't which makes the arguments for net neutrality very weak.
GOP well known stances-
They reduced government and taxes?
They freed the slaves?
They gave equal rights to minorities?
They gave women the right to vote?
I don't remember the Nazis doing any of those things.
I DO remember them increasing government size, putting people into slavery, and oppressing minorities. All things the DNC has a long history of doing. Or are you attempting to rewrite history so you can oppress people and claim it is for the greater good?
Are CBS journalists fascists now too? The problem with groups that condone violence against anyone, even people limited to some smaller group or part of the population, is that eventually the definition of that group will change and the lines will blur.
You give them a platform with which to spread their message if you don't. And the idea that it's better to debate ideas based on lies rather than smother them is misguided:
https://www.wired.com/story/me...
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Pretending to give them ANY position only legitimizes them. Fuck them, they can go speak their nonsense into a fucking hole.
Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
The violation of the terms of service had nothing to do with:
"obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security"
Therefore it wasn't censorship by your definition and further the website was not "prohibited" or even suppressed as Go Daddy was hosting it. Go Daddy merely told them to find someone else to provide their domain name services. The website is up right now so it clearly hasn't been prohibited or suppressed.
If your local theater won't screen your obscene movie, go find another theatre. Private businesses that don't want to be associated with some things aren't censoring, they are simply making business decisions. You don't get to say whatever you want in my home, but if you step off my property you can say pretty much whatever you want. I'm not censoring you, I'm telling you to go elsewhere to say what I find unacceptable in my home.
Go Daddy has now given up any common carrier protection claims they might have and is now able to be held accountable for the content on any of they websites they host, and maybe more importantly any of the domains they are registrar of can come under fire by litigants that can now include Go Daddy in their list they are going after. Just my opinion, I'm not a lawyer. I have worked alongside lawyers doing software forensics and some hardware breakdowns.
- Tjp
I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
The issue with the cake bakers was that they were in Colorado, and Colorado law does include Sexual Orientation as a legally protected class (state's rights, hooray!). Now they're going to the Supreme Court, which plausibly may find that the Cake Baker's First Amendment rights were in fact violated and therefore the Colorado law is unconstitutional. But that's completely apples-to-oranges to violating a web hosting company's terms of service and being booted out because of it.
They are somehow worse than the people who turned up with guns, riot shields, "blood and soil" chants, swastikas, and then started murdering people?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
https://www.theatlantic.com/ma...
https://www.washingtonpost.com...
http://www.npr.org/2017/06/16/...
and then there's Youtube. I could go on an on and on.
I could give two fucks what it ment in 1921. TODAY, the Antifa are a facist violent group of fucktards that should be labeled for what they are, a terrorist organization.
So who drove a car into a group of protestors, trying to murder them - someone from the Antifa, or someone from the Profa, erm alt-right?
Butchering out Stalinist progressives is a virtue ... some violence reflects good design for the task assigned.
I would agree with you, if everyone was up front about who they're refusing service to.
I am not sure that regulations stating that every business must post TOS for everything that they believe is a good idea. Stores would have billboards declaring values and ideals.
. And lots of people here seem to be using "libertarian" views in a way to support hate. Whatever melts your butter.
First, my personal view is I abhor hate speech. But I can believe that something is wrong and still allow others to practice it. For example I don't use drugs but if that is something you wish to practice why should I tell you that you can't.
To deny one group freedom to manage their business as they see fit because they can censor hateful right wingers (which you as the government agree with) and tell another group that they cannot run their business as they see fit because their belief runs counter to yours is discriminatory and runs counter to the libertarian view. In that case you have proven their point that it is a leftist agenda.
--- Tolerance is the axiomatic "virtue" of those without convictions ---
And right-wing murder is the ultimate in censorship.
If I were around in 1940, I'd have punched Hitler. Maybe that makes me a fascist in your eyes, but I'd tend to view it as an act of self defence.
the Antifa are no less fascist than the DPRK is democratic.
The DPRK is not at all democratic... So Antifa are no less fascist than "not at all"... I think your logic needs work.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I'm glad you feel that way. Do you feel the same about the cake bakers forced to bake cakes for gays in order to carry their message?
Indeed, no baker should be forced to carry StormFront's hate cake message.
If one person is forced to carry a message for a group they disagree with, then all will be forced. That is the future we look forward to.
You look forward to a slippery slope?
I think it would have been much easier to embrace freedom by not forcing anyone to do anything they disagree with.
Easier =/= better.
The left will eat their tyrannical, liberty-killing laws before it's all said and done.
Yeah, show off your partisan bias a bit more. Tell me something, you ever say anything about the right and its freedom killing actions?
It's debatable if Trump is the strongest Fascist leader at the moment or not, given the issues in The Philippines and in Russia, but as far as the power of the nation he theoretically leads, definitely.
Leading a "powerful nation" doesn't make you a powerful leader.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Antifa has rioted, burned, assaulted, and vandalized its way across America for nearly a year.
Now that they have finally provoked the Crazies on the Right, the Crazies on the Left are crying victim?
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Have you even seen some of vile spew from the antifa? Their hate is just as despicable as that of the facists. Your "no equivalency" is bullshit
It's telling that the alt-right's narrative has shifted from "we are not bad guys" to "well everyone else is just as bad".
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Only to the ignorant.
That, would be you.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
I've been again and again from rad lefts that "trump supporters and chauvinists will just disappear". I wonder what did they mean.
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
Giving them 24 hours of grace period kindof defeats the purpose of the act, right? The site can operate without interruption, moreover, the Streisand effect may multiply the traffic for those 24 hours, which GoDaddy should've known ahead. Why do something this half-hearted?
Yes, and you know what limits your customers? Getting your brand associated with nazis.
So, you don't have a problem with discrimination for political views (which is what the first amendment is about). But you have no problem requiring people to provide services for a purpose they don't agree with. An opinion is less offensive than an action, yet you require people to support the action but will limit the person with the opinion.
It didn't stop loads of people from buying and selling drugs through the silk road or any of the people who are using it for peddling child porn or other illegal services.
How many more would have used those sites otherwise though? The fact that there are illegal markets on the clear web suggests that there is a group of people who want those services but can't access them via the dark web.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
What's ironic is they use fascist tactics.
Yes. Because they work best against the Fascists. Just like the worst fires are fought with fire. So you fear the Antifa? Well, Mr. Fascist, booh-hooh-hooh.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
So, to you, pointing out that Antifa is just as bad as those they claim to be fighting means that the writer is part of the "alt-right:".
You are a fucking bigot. You are the embodiment of, "Us vs. Them".
What? Are you part of Antifa? Have you stood in the road shouting that it is your street?
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Then why is it only recently we have seen so many and such violence?
Yes, they can speak their views publicly in the street and we as a free society must allow it.
You are taking them seriously and they want to be taken seriously. You are legitimizing them. You are giving them purpose. You are becoming the monster you hate and hunt.
Yet, you probably support net neutrality. Shouldn't the content provider be required to provide the service regardless of whether they agree with the content?
Five Dead Cops would probably disagree with you. But some Leftist Extremist shot them dead.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
I am not sure how you come to the conclusion that he Antifa are 'statist', since they are pretty obviously antagonizing the police (the arm of the State). And they certainly are not facist, except in the obvious non-tolerance of other opinions. Facism requires more than that: a desire for a strong central authority (typically a government), and typically a focus on a homogenous group set apart from others.
Antifa have more in common with anarchists than facists.
Note that all three of these groups often feel that violence, sometimes even terrorism/mass killings, can be justified in advancing their political goals.
Comparing BLM to KKK and nazis gets you a 5: insightful...everythings allrightee there! BTW do you really believe what you write ?!?
Then why is it only recently we have seen so many and such violence?
Because you've been hiding in a hole for the past few decades? I've seen them around for quite a while.
Yes, they can speak their views publicly in the street and we as a free society must allow it.
No, we don't. That's obstructing traffic.
You are taking them seriously and they want to be taken seriously. You are legitimizing them. You are giving them purpose. You are becoming the monster you hate and hunt.
No you!
Seriously, are you failing a wisdom check today, or do you think your empty rhetorical declarations are actually matters of substance? You might as well be a Civil War apologist trying to concoct a reason why Lincoln started the Civil War.
National Socialists were not leftists, not communists, but right wing thugs.
Identify the lies. Mock them and make them the butt of jokes. Alex Jones is a joke. The funniest gifs online are of him and the evil conspiracy of pickle jars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
How can anyone take someone like that seriously?
It would have if everybody had ignored them. How famous would the man be if everyone turned their backs instead of cheering him on and supporting him. What is a dictator without an army? The followers are a bigger problem than the leaders.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Much needed post, thank you.
I would hope then that their enforcement to the ToS is unified and unbiased because I have seen too much accepted racism of a particular group.
Why is this modded troll? Because it makes trump look bad?
What I really don't get is why they're so enamoured of the banners of the losing sides? I mean, the confederates and nazis did a lot of damage, but even the most charitable histories can't help but notice that in the end they got whupped.
Log in or piss off.
If you're not a Nazi, what would you be doing marching in a parade with Nazis.
Now that you mention it, I could totally see that being a Naked Gun plotline... Detective Frank Drebin goes undercover to tail a suspected crime lord, but when he tries to blend in to a nearby parade to get closer to his target, the camera zooms out and suddenly we see he's surrounded by Nazis. Hilarity ensues as he tries to keep up the ruse.
From what I gather ITT, nazi's don't deserve the ability to call emergency services.
Mussolini eating cereals in the morning does not make cereals a fascist breakfast.
Nonsense. Businesses should be free to associate with whom they wish.
What if GoDaddy didn't want to host a site for a gay wedding?
The Nazis didn't start out as the State. Fascism means the power of the state and/or the power of the one true nationalists. Look at the Italians, the Spanish, the Germans... seeing a pattern? No. And the "Antifa" idiots going around today breaking garbage cans and setting limos on fire are NOT the same as the ACTUAL Antifa. They co-opted the name and are as slimy and violent as the fascists they claim to hate and want to destroy.
You fail at understanding politics. So read a book for God's sake.
As long as GoDaddy is removing all hosted sites that violate their terms of service, including any far right or far left wing sites.
Because like Twitter if they are just banning speech they don't like, this is clearly a first amendment issue. Once you've made yourself part of the public square you have to accept all comers that don't violate your terms of service.
And I know for a fact there are sites GoDaddy is hosting that advocate for far leftist take over of the government and violence against anyone who disagrees with them.
Now that their leader is in office, expect to see much more of this.
Care to point it out. I was agreeing with OP "Hate speech is free speech" except that legally, hate speech doesn't exist as it is a distinction without difference.
Well, of course you'd be refused if you tried to order a cake like that. Everyone knows Cambodians only bake Pol Pot pies.
They're adopting the symbols of other groups (that shared some or many of their views) in order to bolster their own self-image, and to some degree to garner attention. ... They're too weak (and unoriginal) to create their own original banner, so they rely on some idea of they past they've glorified instead.
Which is exactly what the Nazis did. Seriously, your description is a perfect fit for the German Nazis of the mid-20th century. Nazi Germany was neck-deep in symbols and mythology derived from earlier societies and used as justification for their claim of superiority. If it looks like a Nazi, acts like a Nazi, and calls itself a Nazi, it's a Nazi. So call them Nazis.
If they are unemployed, it's usually because they had been undercut by cheaper labor from South America, jobs have been offshored or that affirmative action policies block them from government and other public sector jobs. That in itself drives the racism.
There are those people in the USA and UK who think globalism and austerity measures are a good idea because it keeps prices down, or rather the overhead of wage demands down.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Beats me, but many do, nonetheless.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
You do realize that their actions have proved them to be more "fascist" than those they accuse of Fascism, right?
So what did they do, drive a car into a crowd to murder them? Oh, wait, that was a Fascist.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Funny, I seem to remember 12+ years of the Bush economy, the Bush war on terror, the Bush Patriot Act, the Bush GITMO, etc.
As usual, leftists want to censor things rather than refute them. The greatest enemy to free speech in the world is leftists. If you can refute someone, speak up and do it, even if the speech is disagreeable, such as white supremacy.
Does Nazi-ism, or running one's car through a crowd, really need any more refutation at this point?
It does if people are becoming Nazis.
They have been beating people up, for certain. But the murders will happen soon.
Oooh. In addition to beating up thousands, the Fascists have been murdering people for decades. Heck, this very article is about one such murder. Beating up Fascists is self defense of a very self restraining (thus anti-American) kind. A true American would actual shoot Fascists at sight. Are you no true American?
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
The socialist part of the name was a ruse to gain power, after gaining power the socialists were purged and the rightest Nazis committed the atrocities.
There's no truth on those racist sites, just more lies for ignorant nazi wannabees to lap up like so much cheap beer. They rely on your gullibility and desire to be better than you are. Here's a hint- no one ever actually became better by hating and knocking down others.
More anger and childish name calling from the "tolerant" left. People like you are why HRC lost the election.
You are correct, people wanted mature and calm, that's why they voted Trump.
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
Is that what you call the protesters at Trump's campaign rallies? Terrorists? Are they really terrorizing the rally attendees with their lack of weapons, lack of police protection, and by numbering in the handfuls among hundreds who oppose them? Please. I am so tired of conservatives crying victim when the legal system has been in their favor for the longest time.
So to defeat your enemy you must become them? Jesus, I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
Violence is no longer justified on any end of the political spectrum, One would think that after two world wars we would understand that violence does nothing more than bring upon more violence.
That is not to say that violence in the case of self defense is not warranted, but going out and punching someone for speaking words is never justified. In the case of punching nazi's just for speaking does nothing but justify more violence and a stronger show of aggression. The violence that erupted this past weekend is a symptom of what this anti-fascist movement started.
The minute that one antifa punched someone for speaking words it caused the other side to escalate and start getting prepared to defend them selves, It also brings more people to both sides of the cause.
Quite simply to condone violence from EITHER side is to call for blood-lust in the streets. Your argument that this type of action is necessary is contrary to the idea that we are a democratic society who is able to solve our differences through discussion.
And I would like to make it clear that i do believe that violence in the name of self defense is necessary and perfectly fine, it requires two things:
1 for physical violence to be perpetuated upon a person first (words do not count)
2. for violence in self defense to stop once the threat is neutralized.
what has been happening between these extreme political factions is nothing more than violence for violence's sake, just cloaked in some political ideology that helps the perpetrator of violence sleep at night
Even the worst sports teams still have fans. People need to feel like they are part of a group. They can ignore the short-comings of that group because validation is more important than victory or mutual respect.
Unless he sold his account. Or is a sockpuppet. Or shares his account. Or his account was hacked. Other than that, we're 100%ish sure Wootery is representative of the person who typed that post. Maybe.
Just think about that, the President of the United States, the so-called "Leader of the Free World" is so afraid of angering his base that his direct utterances are basically exercises in moral equivalency, and it is left to others in his administration to insist that that represents an actual condemnation.
Obama was also unable to utter the words "Islamic terrorism" even when terrorist acts were being perpetrated under the name of Islam.
Your posting history defends Obama for what you condemn Trump. Like many people, you have become what you hate.
The original NAZIs were fascists as well. The Neo-NAZIs remain so.
I may be nit-picking, but “Nazi” is spelled with an initial capital rather than in all-caps. It is neither an acronym nor an initialism, but a derogatory term derived from an abbreviation of the actual name of the original Nazi party (“Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei” or NSDAP), just like “commie” is a derogatory term for communists. The original Nazis never referred to themselves as such, I'm not sure if modern (neo-)Nazis do.
Sued by WHOM? Anybody suing them on behalf of Nazis identifies themselves as Nazis themselves, which I would hope is a severe career-limiting move!
Would a rose by any other name be just as sweet? The answer to this question is no. Names have tremendous power over people and change perceptions by their very use. The choice of a name by a group can tell much of their values and intentions. Likewise, labels given to groups by outsiders can be used as a shibboleth. Example: I know immediately what your political leanings are if I hear you say anything regarding the "Democrat" party.
The entire purpose of attacking BLM and Antifa is to create a false moral equivalency so the Neo-nazis don't look so bad. "Oh yes, they're violent, but yeah no, some BLM guys shouted on TV, so it's like totally the same."
Even Trump has finally quite the equivocation of the last two days and called this particular evil by its name, so at least he's given his Alt-right followers permission to call out white supremacists without trying to make claims about BLM and other similar movements.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Not a First Amendment issue, because the government is not involved. And yes, ISPs are not common carriers, they fight that battle continuously. But think very hard about the precedent that this sets. If public outcry can cut off this web site - despicable as it may be - then other public outcry can cut off Planned Parenthood's web site. How many articles here on /. have been about an ISP or email service or web host suddenly terminating someone's service, or banks refusing to handle credit cards for (e.g.) medical marijuana dispensaries? Do you want the phone companies to be able to turn off someone's service because of what someone says over the phone? (And how would they know, unless they're constantly monitoring, even if only computers listening in for keywords?) Blacklisting someone from having web hosting could lead to blacklisting someone from having a phone number. AND OF COURSE the people most likely to abuse these kinds of powers are the restrictive right-wing types like the current administration.
You don't refute Nazis.
Well... I don't know if this counts as a refute, but as many (most) of the people involved in the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville seem to be Trump supporters, who (along with Trump himself) are fond of reminding those on the Left, "Hillary lost, get over it", I'd like to offer the following re-phrasing of that sentiment: The Nazis and the South both lost, get over it.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Stop being stupid. Stalinism also involved forcibly suppressing the individual and exalting government, but that didn't make it Naziism, and in fact the Stalinists and Nazis went to war with each other. Lots of ideologies involve forcible suppression of opposition; the Catholic Church in centuries past comes to mind (remember the Spanish Inquisition?). If you think the Catholic Church back in Medieval Times can be accurately described as a "Nazi organization", then you're just a complete idiot who can't be reasoned with.
In the video I saw he was stopped, people were screaming about hitting some guy with bats, then he took off.
Fascism is NOT a word that means "statism" OR coercion. Those have FUCKALL to do with what the word means
"All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state." - Benito Mussolini, well-known fascist
Well, since corporations are legally people
They are "persons".
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
What's ironic is they use fascist tactics.
It is not irony... it is fascism versus fascism. Two gangs squabbling over the right to control everyone else.
Reduced by nothing, I wasn't there, you weren't there, neither of our opinions matter. Whether he was guilty or not will come out at trial, screw your torch mob.
Yes its the same organization.
No it's not, by any stretch of the imagination. That's like saying that the protestors in Charlottesville are “the same organization” as the original NSDAP (disbanded in 1945) or KKK (died out in the 1870s). Hell, they're not even an organization; they're just randos who coordinate on the Internet and label themselves as “antifas” because they think it sounds cool. IMO they're shitheads because they make it possible for Trump and his clique to legitimately deplore “violence on many sides” and wash their hands of the actions of their most ardent supporters.
They aren't hosting the content.
Your comparison of antifa to Nazis is about as stupid as you can get.
They would act in an identical manner if they could get away with it, they are functionally identical: too full of themselves to bother considering their beliefs anything but idiotic.
fascist is synonymous with "bully"... the word has no formal definition that would preclude it being applied in the modern sense to any political group employing thuggery towards the goal of oppressing others. So yes, I see both sides as fascist.
If they are unemployed, it's usually because they had been undercut by cheaper labor from South America, jobs have been offshored or that affirmative action policies block them from government and other public sector jobs. That in itself drives the racism.
There are those people in the USA and UK who think globalism and austerity measures are a good idea because it keeps prices down, or rather the overhead of wage demands down.
So you're saying two out of the three reasons driving racism is capitalism?
Nothing you have listed is anywhere in the definition of fascism. Even if true you only proved me right.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
LOLOLOL. Ok.
Yes and it was the Republican Party that freed the slaves so black people should vote for them right?
If this band of losers had called themselves "The Sons of Liberty" or some other organization or movement, you'd hardly suddenly support them because Samuel Adams did something 200 years ago under a similar name. The Patriot Act should have taught you how meaningless a name is.
Both the Democratic and Republican parties supported the Patriot Act... President Obama lobbied hard for its extension. And I doubt you will be able to cobble together just the 40 Democratic Party Senators to block extension this year.
Umm no, punching somebody has no political affiliation. It does reveal the fragility of human patience & our penchant to lash out though. And this crosses all political boundaries except perhaps passive Hinduism.
Punching somebody, although shameful & undesireable, is not fascist.
That in turn will give some young red necklet hope for his future. Don't be a part of that. Ignore them, move on and leave them behind. Most of them will never change, but the young and mutable can weigh the life they will have to lead as a professionally oppressed white man against just living a life, and I have a feeling make better choices for themselves, mostly.
The problem I have here is that, from what I'm seeing, the "red-necks" and other conservatives in this country are the ones having all the kids, along with immigrants and their kids. In short, the educated white liberals aren't having very many. I predict this is going to lead to disaster in 1-3 decades. The liberal plan seems to basically boil down to hoping that the conservatives' kids will see the light and join them, but while that'll work for some, it'll probably be a minority, and we're going to end up with an absolutely huge number of angry racists in the more rural and conservative regions screaming for white nationalist fascism.
I give the USA 20 years, 30 tops, as a unified country.
So Bob Parsons should be booted for murdering endangered animals like when he killed that elephant?
None of those people you denigrate committed any acts of violence. Unlike the past ANTIFA or BLM events where violence and rioting was the norm for the group. You had one ass associated with the group act out and not with any of the items you mentioned.
Are they Confederate Nazi's then since they've got the battle flag flag proudly on display as well?
There were several groups present in Charlottesville. Some were Confederate apologists waving the Battle Flag; some were literal Nazis with swastika tattoos, armbands, and flags; some were identitarians marching under various names and banners; some were unaffiliated alt-right randos who just showed up for the heck of it. Most of them probably didn't give a shit about the statue.
Would a rose by any other name be just as sweet? The answer to this question is no. Names have tremendous power over people and change perceptions by their very use. The choice of a name by a group can tell much of their values and intentions. Likewise, labels given to groups by outsiders can be used as a shibboleth. Example: I know immediately what your political leanings are if I hear you say anything regarding the "Democrat" party.
Yep. Any nation with "democratic republic" in the name probably isn't. Any law with the word "Freedom" or "Patriot" in the title is probably increasing government power and/or screwing over the citizens. Any organization with "Liberty" in the name is probably very biased right-wing (including you, Liberty Mutual!).
You are allowing yourself to be used as a tool by the very people you view as oppressing you. Look objectively at all the the radicalization taking place and simply ask yourself "who benefits".
The government is bound to allow free speech. A corporation doesn't have to put up with things they find objectionable. There are other options for those pushing hate and GoDaddy is certainly in the right here.
This, free speech at it's core is being able to criticise your government. Additional provisions are that, additional (although, IMHO, a good thing).
However nowhere does Free Speech entail being given a platform to speak. This you must provide yourself and it is well within the rights of others and other companies to refuse this platform to you if they find what you say objectionable. Put simply, free speech lets you say what you like, it does not force anyone else to have to listen to it. If your hosting provider takes down your extremist website, you're not being censored, you're being told you're not welcome there any more. Its the same as if you went into a restaurant and insisted that you address all the staff as Mr or Mrs Cunt, you can, strictly speaking it's not illegal but don't be surprised when you get asked to leave. Free speech also does not protect you from criticism, no where is speech protected to the point where everyone has to listen and silently agree with you. If that were the case, free speech would be useless as you cant have freedom without responsibility.
This is of course, within reason. There are protected classes, even then you're not explicitly banned for being racist, xenophobic, sexist et al... but you're not protected and dont get to use free speech as a defence.
Besides this, if the situation was reversed and we were talking about extremist left organisations (I.E. Bolsheviks, Stalinists, abortion clinic bombers) who advocated and attempted to organise violence, I'm sure go-daddy would do the same to them. It just happens that western societies tend to be more tolerant of the extreme right, allowing them to fester and grow much better than the far left.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
It's not censorship or a violation of freedom of speech. All they did was cancel the hosting of the site. The site is free to purchase hosting services somewhere else. It's basically as if GoDaddy owned a bulletin board and someone puts a flyer on there they don't like. They are free to remove that flyer and tell the person not to post it again. Individuals (corporations, etc) are not obligated to provide you a forum for your speech, and your right to free speech does not translate into a right to be heard by others.
Agreed up to the point where there actually are options... I would take issue if there were no viable option in the marketplace. Say the telecom disconnected their phones and Internet service and completely cut them off because they were Democratic Party members (or Nazis)... I mean it would be easy for the company just to say we don't do business with party members.
>TODAY, the Antifa are a facist violent group
I think this reflects the nature of the language. It's not that language eventually and spectacularly became what Orwell has predicted in 1948, it just it became that so quickly. Not only the words mean the opposite nowadays, they are quickly switching the meaning.
Even the pronouns. Apparently, "they" has now "singular they", "marriage" is no longer a organized sex between men and women, "spokesman" is an offensive word.
Once you start allowing language losing it's stability, the very basic ground of rational communication disappears.
And that is the main problem nowadays: defiantly anti-science attitude. Not from "flat-earthers", not from "climate" deniers, but from the establishment which on the words claims to be defending science, but in reality attacks scientific reasoning on everyday basis.
Take Google Manifesto, for example. The man expressed offensive scientific statistical observation and got fired for that. Take James Watson. The man expressed offensive scientific statistical observation and got fired for that.
People in Austria jailed for mere questioning the official history.
This is in turn a result of further objective devaluation of science as meaningful human activity. Basic science, physics, is almost over.
I know, I sound like Lord Kelvin, but listen to the reason why he said this hilariously mistaken observation. There is the end, there is the end to everything, and that includes our objective knowledge about basic things.
And we reached it. But scientists are still there, so they increasingly do unscientific things presenting it as science: technology, politicking, manipulating data, making careers, cranking up grants.
That's why we are here, talking language we can't understand, doing things that nobody needs.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
Neck yourself. Communism has killed more people than any other political force in history. Antifa is unabashedly communism. Your like someone who beats there wife but calls it anti-wifr beating. It's the same thing, just cause you justify it to yourself doesn't make you and antifa monsters.
I guarantee you there are now a bunch of armchair types who are sympathetic to the Nazis now.
You're right, because there's a huge pool of ignorant white people around who think murdering peaceful protesters is a good idea, as demonstrated by the posts here.
Heck, reading the comments here you'd think 80% of slashdot commenters ARE alt-right, they way they defend them, or get tied up in attacking Antifa and claiming something like ALL resistence to the alt-right is violent.
Funny, I remember whenever something came up that was actually something done under the Bush administration, the anti-Obama critics had fits where they couldn't admit it.
This includes the SOFA in Iraq, the Energy Act, the treaty over some Arctic islands, and more.
Of course, you also complained about not closing the prison at GITMO while simultaneously railing that Obama shouldn't do any of the things he tried to do, so consistency was never your strong suit.
What is funny, however, is that despite doing almost nothing, Trump went from declaring a failing economy to praising it.
I feel sorry for you that you have no self awareness. I'm certain that you've surrounded yourself by people who are also brainwashed with re-defined words.
However, I'm glad that there are lots of people becoming aware of the fascistic tactics of antifa. You are a useful idiot for those who wish to divide us and cause civil unrest; your main characteristic is a gigantic propensity for cognitive dissonance. You are the true fascist.
Violence and censorship? No big...but don't you DARE call me a fascist!
Our president was raised on this kind of racism and segregation: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/us/politics/donald-trump-housing-race.html so what he is doing now is no surprise.
You are allowing yourself to be used as a tool by the very people you view as oppressing you. Look objectively at all the the radicalization taking place and simply ask yourself "who benefits".
Are you fucking kidding me, or has Fascist Zombies already eaten away your brain? Fascism is the Zombie Apocalypse, and you can't defeat the Zombie Apocalypse with rational arguments.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
To be fair, you should have known better than to set your time machine for only 4 years back, especially if you already knew those years were going to suck. The rest of us only had to put up with Dubya for 8 years.
Because there aren't any banners they can rally under that both have some degree of similarity to what they believe and won. Ethnic purism as a movement doesn't work because it makes some lazy generalizations that aren't true (reality doesn't care about your incorrect assumptions) and the people who tend to espouse it tend to be on the left side of the bell curve when it comes to mental faculties. It's always probably always something that will rear its ugly head, but it's just not a successful strategy so it doesn't produce winners.
I remember a few yrs ago a fellow in a group of bikers stop checked a car behind him. The car accidentally dinged him (this part is unrelated to your post). Next, the bikers surrounded the guy's car pissed off. He panics, hits the gas and drives over some bikes pushing them out of the way with his car. The police arrested the bikers and the fellow wasn't charged.
People are assuming the guy did this in malice and I'd lay even odds he did but prior to this the police retreated back from the protesters due to their aggression. I can believe the guy was scared as easily as him doing it intentionally.
You have not watched any one of the many videos have you? The car was mobbed by people with bats and rebar.
It's the google memo all over again. People read the headlines, are told what to feel about an incident, then post a hundred times on slashdot without looking at what happened. "I know what is right. I know what is moral" without looking at any evidence.
Look at some unedited videos. What the news tells you is not what the evidence shows.
I'll keep that in mind the next time Islamists attack, and see the likes of you with your moral outrage hanging out.
What does that even mean? When was there ever an Islamic Terrorist mob that attacked a car and then people defended the driver for hitting the accelerator?
Did you notice the CNN headline: "1 protester, 2 cops dead in violent protest".
The cops died in a helicopter accident unrelated to anything, but CNN and a bunch of other 'news' sites tried to tie them together.
Your average man or woman on the street probably wouldn't, but a Cambodian ex-pat would definitely know who Pol Pot is. Similarly there are probably a sizable percentage of Americans who don't know who Fidel Castro is either, but I wouldn't bet you'll find many of them among the Cuban American population.
It is beyond time for the congress to move forward with impeachment.
While I'm not supporting Trump in any way shape or form, what impeachable offense has he committed? Unfortunately "being an idiot", "careless use of twitter", "stretching the truth", "denying science", etc. are not crimes in this country. And unfortunately impeaching because you don't like the guy and or his policy is not an option, nor should it be. Granted some of the stuff, like using his golf resorts, hotels, etc for official business, is pushing the line on self enrichment, I haven't heard any compelling arguments that he has committed crimes of an impeachable nature.
When did self defense against race riots become fascism? How many have to die before a non-right wing authoritarian can claim self defense instead of being labelled a fascist for defending themselves against literal fascists who even CALL THEMSELVES fascist??
You are correct, people wanted mature and calm, that's why they voted Trump
Not necessarily, but I do know a good amount of people who were so disgusted by HRC and her supporters' my-crap-doesn't-stink attitudes that they decided to vote third party instead of their usual democrat vote.
If those companies really didn't want to do business with them, then I don't believe they should be forced to do so. However, you have to understand that a business taking this kind of response is going to open themselves up to similar problems in the future. At first you kick out whatever group is the most vile and that everyone else hates and no one has a problem with it, but sooner or later there's going to be another group that most (but not all) people hate and demands for the company not to do business with them either. Businesses are just as loathe to find themselves in that position as they are to be in one where they have an unpopular client.
However, those companies may not even get to make that choice. At some point there are some common carrier restrictions placed on the companies as a part of government regulations. The same ability that would allow them to discriminate against white supremacists would also allow them to decide they don't want to provide bandwidth for Netflix either. You can't build a set of rules that have an application based on good and bad. Sure you might argue that when you get to define good that it works out the way you want, but when the Nazis (or other similar groups) got to define good it really sucked for a lot of people.
As shitty as treating bakers badly with well-intentioned by ill-begotten equality laws is bad, having the President of the United States too frightened to call out a pack of Nazis is a whole other thing entirely.
That's fake news. He called out the hate groups, even before the lady lost her life. But I get it, you have to criticize this president at every turn, even when there's nothing to criticize. Yawn . . .
Trump: We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!
But i get it, you need to feel like somehow a metaphorical stubbed toe is the same as a literal car attack.
If you "got it", you'd understand I never made such equivalencies. I simply said it's wrong to force people against there will and to take their freedoms. That applies to the lady that lost her life as well.
Not to mention the absolute freakout by the media, and left calling for this to be "domestic terrorism" and blaming the "alt-right" or "neo-nazis" or "white nationalists" whatever the catch phrase is in this news cycle.
So, you're far right enough to downplay domestic terrorism by white nationalists (a useful umbrella term that covers neo-nazis, centipedes, neo-confederates, etc). Duly noted.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Not to mention the right gets refuted literally every day, by scientific means, and they don't care. They just ignore science, history, critical thinking and logic entirely and continue on with their tired, multiply disproven screeds. After all, the most influential right winger in history, Adolf Hitler, said "If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth". We are dangerously close to being in that realm. If it wasn't for the internet, the mainstream media would have already completely sold us all.
I agree with most of what you've written, I'd just take issue with: "It's an act of statism." Anarchic violence isn't an act of statism. Violence isn't always in the service of statism.
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I read the Constitution hundreds of times and there are no such conflicts that I can find. Where conflicts tend to exist is when people manipulate wording and message instead of reading the actual words.
Show me in text where there is such a conflict.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Link to said unedited video?
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
Toward the right. The left had no problem blaming the 'black bloc' for the violence in their protest but now its open season on all conservatives because of this one man?
I can think of one in particular, abuse of power. See Trump Hotel/Maro for squeezing money out of foreign visits to enrich trump. Want more, how about the Kushner's selling citizenship in the US with the trump name. And that is just off the top of my head. He has threatened to fire mueller too, again abuse. The problem is trump has made outrageous acts seem normal.If Clinton can get impeached for lying about a BJ, I think there is plenty to get trump in trouble,
Except they clearly haven't as they have not adopted a single principal of the philosophy of fascism. Notably rejection of the single most absolutely critical thing that defines fascism: ethnic nationalism. You cannot be fascist without it.
For a country that fought a war against fascism its amazing how nobody in America has the slightest idea what it is. It's not a synonym for statism and it's on the far opposite end of the economic scale from socialism. It's further to the right economically than anarcho-capitalism.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
What's the definition then?
I think it would have been much easier to embrace freedom by not forcing anyone to do anything they disagree with.
Easier =/= better.
Sometimes easier is better, as in this case. Politicians thought it would be easier to take away the freedoms of one group in order to suit another. Instead, I predict this will continue to be an area of contention that would have been much better addressed by respecting everyone's freedom rather than the protected group of the week.
You think there's anyone intelligent enough in that group to figure out the dark web?
Stalinism is fascism in all but name. They were fighting over the same piece of ideological turf. The only fight was who was going to be in charge.
Remember the USSR and Germany started WWII as _allies_, attacked nations together and split the land.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
What does the word mean to you?
The BLM nut in Dallas was a murderer, but was killed by the cops.
The Antifa nut in DC would have been a murderer, but couldn't shoot, also killed by cops.
Don't pretend there aren't violent crazies on both sides.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
The site was just reinstated.
You mean no such thing. We know who you are on this site. What you object to is having these Nazis associated with the right wing. "far-right" is the word you take offense to. Suck it up buttercup!
That creators link is one of the most astounding revisions of history I've read this year. Your post claims that the organization of Anti-Fascists are merely just different kinds of Fascists and all of this mess is as distant from your political tribe as possible. Indeed, our dear leader benefits from the poorly educated.
Fascism is a state first ideology. Fascist government ideology abandons all pretext of individual liberty or private enterprise except where it benefits the leaders and the party in power. Liberalism at its very core is an extension of enlightenment ideology where the individual is the focus of the state.
It is a liberal idea that the government should act as an enabler of private citizens and as a shield to protect them from powerful interests that would do them harm. We have seen the effects of unbridled capitalism in this country but the worst of those transgressions have passed from living memory. Coal miners in West Virginia once marched with a citizen army to ensure their fellow workers had the option to unionize. These rednecks (the earliest use of the term) were met with aerial bombings and machine gun fire set upon them by the moneyed interests of the state.
People cannot individually stand against powerful corporations or foreign powers. It is an expression of liberty, not fascism, when the government intercedes on behalf of the people as a whole.
Here are some things that liberalism has brought into the body politic:
1. Popular suffrage
2. General education
3. Abolition of class systems (including slavery)
4. Trial by jury
Lastly, I want to talk about the meaning of words. When one puts a liberal amount of butter on a bit of toast it means that the bread is covered in excess. When one takes a conservative approach to a problem it is to proceed cautiously and accept new ideas with restraint. Advocating for change is not a conservative position. The conservative approach is the status quo. Those people calling themselves "conservatives" and advocating for huge structural reforms are using the label to placate others with lies. They are radicals. Perhaps they are isolationists, nationalists, plutocrats, or theocrats but they are certainly not conservative.
There is nothing enduring about the US constitution. No divine providence that shields us from ourselves. The government belongs to the living and we can, at any moment, change how we are governed. Our republic has been reshaped many times through its history and is an infant country compared to other empires of the past. The only thing keeping us on our current course is a collective will and no magic force will block our moves towards a new type of government. It is critically important that the ideas of the enlightenment, equality of man, and obligation of the government to the general welfare of the population be left against the waves of these radicals. Do not be silent on these topics or they will be washed away.
Just shut up shop and never have to make a cake against your religion for the rest of your life.
Read Trump's latest condemnation, which has no equivocation in calling out those groups for their racist ideology.
“Racism is evil,” said Mr. Trump, delivering a statement from the White House at a hastily arranged appearance meant to halt the growing political threat posed by the situation. “And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the K.K.K., neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”
Unfortunately, this would have been 100x more effective as his FIRST statement. Now, instead, it just looks like a response to political pressure (from BOTH sides of the isle, incidentally).
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
If they're not communists what are they doing walking in a parade with communists?
Both sides have nuts in their groups, and both sides should police their own membership. Both sides also have nuts that have gone to guns in the last year.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I don't fear them at all. For one thing, when I see a bunch of idiots marching down the street I avoid them. There's nothing worth my time there, at best it'll be boring At worst some shithead will attack me and when I put him down I'll end up in trouble. I have no use for any of these thugs, the police should bring out the rubber bullets and apply liberally. The fact you think there is anything okay with these tactics tells me all I need to know about you.
'Illegal markets' on the clear web are more or less guaranteed to be Chris Hanson, the FBI, Interpol, local vice etc.
Yes their are people that stupid, if it didn't work, the cops would be doing something else.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
He's the exception. Only a few people like him think this way or else the US would look like Syria does today. Too bad he has no use for the rule of law, it keeps his ignorant ass safe as well.
Look at the videos of the riots. In most cases the Nazis were badly outnumbered and got their asses beaten as they were attempting to leave. The one exception was a heavily armed militia group. They moved down a street lined on both sides by Antifa and other left wing groups but strangely no one tried to club them. I was surprised it wasn't on the news until I realized they never fired a shot. A group of white supremacists armed to the teeth with assault weapons moving through a riot and not killing anyone didn't seem like news to the MSM. Especially not when they had a stupid cuck that mowed down people at random with his car.
The United States allied itself with communists in order to kill Nazis. That's how bad Nazis are.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I don't go to riots. If they come to my house I have a solution for violence. Otherwise I don't give a shit about them. I'm kind of live and let live.
People waving a swastika OR hammer and sickle flags are just as idiotic. I don't know how anybody takes them seriously, but you want them to be open about it. Open nazis and commies are better than crypto nazis and crypto commies.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
The murder score is pretty similar at this point.
Right 3, Left 5.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
That's really funny, since years ago it was the racists weeping about how all the immigrants would outbreed them and lead to a left wing revolution.
If Clinton can get impeached for lying about a BJ, I think there is plenty to get trump in trouble,
I have to disagree with that second point, if there was enough for an impeachable offense he would have been impeached. There is enough animosity for him on Capitol Hill he'd be gone in a heartbeat if there was something there. Clinton got impeached for lying under oath about a BJ. Lying under oath is an impeachable offense.
That being said, it's only a matter of time before he does something illegal enough. If I was a betting man, I'd be betting that Trump doesn't complete his 4 years. Eventually his boundary pushing is going to push too far past the "questionable line" and into illegal territory.
Yeah, they were. Sorry.They just viewed communism as a threat.
It's never ok to start a physical with someone that follows another ideology, even a hateful one. It is ok to defend yourself and others if they are the initiators of violence.
If you don't agree with something i say it does not give you the right to punch me, and whatever i think does not give me the right to harm others..
It's never ok to cause physical harm to someone just because of what they think.
Antifa IS a terrorist organization that harms and kills people just because their victims follows a different ideology. They also destroy property of complete bystanders causing a huge financial cost for innocent people.
never forget the star studded GDR, German Democratic Republic either.
Well, as long as they believe in something noble as they punch people, then I'm OK with it!
PS: Please stay silent and code.
Well, yes, the law tends to favor one side. That's... kinda its job - to decide who is right, according to the prevailing laws and norms of the country.
In that context it's OK for results to be different in different cases. One party is right, another is wrong. Deciding that kind of question is the whole point of the court system.
Dude, the antifa are mostly anarchists. Choosing between fascists and anarchists is like choosing to be killed by a bullet or killed by a knife: You're dead either way.
No, he called it (immediately) "a vicious, calculated and despicable attack". Within four hours of the attack, despite being on a different continent, he said: "There is no possible justification for these kinds of attacks or any violence against law enforcement."
If Trump could say something one-tenth as clear, maybe he could start to earn some respect.
I'm kind of live and let live.
You are two decades behind the times. http://www.berkeleyside.com/20...
I'm glad you're comfortable with the BecauseTerrorism cudgel, seeing as we've long established we can use on pretty much anything for any reason.
"We" extending to every body of government, legislation, policing, oversight, surveillance, etc worldwide.
And the liberty bell ! And statue of !
Cunts the lot of them
Only after the Nazis broke their alliance with the Communists. That's how bad the Communists are.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Umm... I dress similar, frequently. I'm pretty sure I'm not a Nazi, and I know I didn't vote for Trump. I have been called a Nazi, which amuses me. I've been to more High Holidays than I can count and I'm not white. I don't even hate anyone, I don't think.
I am going to be right pissed, if I have to buy a new wardrobe.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
I'm pretty sure you've never worn a Nazi armband or marched around carrying a torch with Nazis.
You actually cut a dashing figure in that white polo shirt and khaki golf pants. I think you're good to go.
You are welcome on my lawn.
So, do you support the right of restaurants to refuse to serve Irish, Polish or blacks? Do you support the right of unions to exclude blacks? Do you support the right of country clubs to refuse membership to women, Jews and Catholics? Do you support the right of corporations to drive their competitors out of business and then sell worthless crap at highway robbery prices?
We have anti-discrimination laws to support the notion that all are created equal before the law. In general, the protected attributes are things people have no control over like race or sex. I include sexual orientation in that category. Religious practice and belief is protected, but not necessarily all actions based on those practices or beliefs. That's why an Orthodox Jewish male might have to sit next to a woman on a plane or a bus in this country. That's why a baker who bakes wedding cakes can't refuse for religious reasons. That's why you can't refuse to serve people because of their race.
As a libertarian, you'd be happy to be fired so that the vice president's nephew can have your job, right? Regardless of his qualifications?
GoDaddy didn't host them. They bought their domain name from GoDaddy.
They already have a mirror there, at least according to Voat.
Only a fool underestimates their opponent.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what do right-wingers do when they see speech they don't like? Death threats. To your children. Rape threats. Nasty phone calls in the middle of the night.
Probably the most pro-free speech organization in the country is the ACLU. A leftist organization that supports the right of people who disagree with them to speak, march and protest. Show me a right wing organization that doesn't just support right wing speech.
THINK AGAIN.
I've seen BLM and P (as in Police) LM stickers on the same cars and on signs in the same yards - and that's cars and yards owned by white people, black people, Indians, Hispanics, whatever.
Somebody call me when you see a BLM and pro KKK bumper stickers on the same car.
Umm... What is Donald Trump doing now?
You do know he condemned the incident, and the racists, right?
I do not really approve of him but you're seemingly confused, or being intentionally dishonest.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Most of those jobs are going away regardless. If they don't head to South America or Asia today they're going to be replaced by automation tomorrow. Neither the liberals nor the conservatives have a real solution. But the racists are taking advantage of the frustration and anger in the meanwhile.
The treatment of the cake bakers is not a problem. It's not like the cake message was, "We should see gay men bang each other in public! Add it to the flag!"
You can't turn a customer away from your auto repair shop because he's Jewish. You can't send a woman away from a medical clinic because she's black. How is this any different?
I find it helpful to consider the product of each service. One openly advocates violence towards other Americans. The other is a traditional part of an affirmation of love between two people. I frankly don't see the similarity when observed from this perspective.
Careful there - if we push the "businesses should be free to do business with whom they wish", that lets GoDaddy evict this site but it also lets other businesses put up the old signs, "No service for colored folk" and "No Jews allowed".
To be clear, I hate these racists and what they stand for, and I hate what they say, and I have no interest in their sites. But I think any hosting service had better make crystal clear what is and is not permitted in their terms of use and then stick to it. The anti-discrimination, freedom of speech laws have to protect everyone - not just the people we like.
So what? Some jackass can make it against their religion for whites to sell services to blacks, and then deny blacks their products. Are you okay with that?
Religious freedom has to have limits. I can say my religion requires me to light fires all the time, but that doesn't mean I should be able to commit arson and get away with it.
So you can hate gays all you want on your personal property in your private time. Once you open a business, you give them the same customer services as any other paying customer.
Umm... What is Donald Trump doing now?
Well, his last tweet was complaining in indignation that people weren't satisfied with his belated response, but before that, he claimed to be traveling to New York City for some meetings.
You do know he condemned the incident, and the racists, right?
I do not really approve of him but you're seemingly confused, or being intentionally dishonest.
Or you're not being honest, or you'd admit that his eventual response had to be dragged out of him, after a lot of people pointed out his attempt at drawing an equivalency.
Or perhaps you're just confused, and think that being forced to do something in a grudging, half-hearted fashion, makes up for the initial act being so dismaying.
Really, KGIII, do you simply not grasp that Donald Trump has cultivated the right-wing's more racist elements so much that he afford couldn't avoid his moment?
There is a black and white, but both the neo-nazis and antifa live in the black.
Racist monsters on the left and racist monsters on the right, both proudly displaying their brands of politically acceptable racism for all to see.
To hell with all of them. This isn't left vs. right, it's monsters vs. the common man.
Over 700 comments and noone has mentioned that this is all possible because of GoDaddy's shitty terms of service. I despise Nazis, especially Nazis who don't read the fine print.
Have they hurt anyone? No. There is no moral equivalence here.
It is true, these extremist groups are often ignored. They're not in the medias' reporting cycles. You can go years before you hear a big story about the KKK, at which point someone says "they're still around?" Of course, every year there's some group or the other that manages to make the news. And they will talk with each other, any counter culture group will have a self supporting community via forums, meetings, etc.
White privilege is subtle. Clean yourself up in a clean shirt and no one's going to blink at you walking through a department store, they won't suspect you of being a potential shoplifter, you stand a better chance of being hired, etc.
Oh, please! You're one to talk. You're a hardcore Linux zealot who trolls, demonizes, and insults anyone not in your little circle-jerk. Promptly logoff and go fuck yourself.
And that's why I don't go to street demonstrations. There's nothing there of value. Let the idiots assault each other, and then arrest them.
> They were mostly just a bunch of cucks. From the way they got their asses handed to them there weren't any real rednecks in the bunch, just a lot of non-gendered SJW's living off Daddy's money.
Fixed that for you. Have you looked at the other side in that protest? The white supremacists tend to be dirt poor, it's their SJW's who live off of someone else's largesse and never get a job.
Think I'm kidding? Look for the 20 biggest SJW's on facebook and Youtube. Not one of them actually supports themself.
> Attention is not their fuel. Hatred is their fuel. Ignoring them will not stop their hatred.
I'm afraid that attention is the oxidizer. If they see their efforts fail, silently, without media splash, it douses the flames as effectively as removing the fuel.
I feel the need to post this anonymously. If you show up at a protest with known violent, armed idiots, do not be *surprised* if you get hurt. Taunting armed idiots, even idiots armed only with clubs and shields, is asking to get your ass kicked unless you are better armed and better trained. Throwing a hissy at the bullies does not work: it never did. You should have learned that with the bullies in grade and high school, and the Hippies learned this lesson very well in the 1960's.
And a woman trapped in a man's body!!!
> This pretty tiara and my massive thighs, however, do.
Fixed that for you!
> The internet is not. (a common carrier)
Not through lack of effort by some of us. The difficulty is a business model one: they want to charge more for certain types of traffic, as profit centers. Many small ISP's used to do their best to operate as common carriers, and follow policies consistent with that. It's become more difficult to compete with the larger, cell phone affiliated carriers who are not willing to treat all traffic equally.
> I have to disagree with that second point, if there was enough for an impeachable offense he would have been impeached.
Impeachment, and whether there are grounds for impeachment, are two different matters. FDR's medical issues, for example, did not lead to his impeachment despite his lack of physical fitness, his reliance on his wife to run his Cabinet, and his failure to inform Congress. Neither did Ronald Reagan's increasingly obvioius Alzheimer's Disease.
That's a facile attempt to calm the people in the face of government sanctioned oppression. As long as cowards standing behind arbitrarily written laws cause others to suffer, violence will remain a viable, if final, measure to restore faith in society. People who create suffering and hide behind words are not fit to lead, and are made immune to the effects of their decisions, which the common man bears the burden of.
Fuck words.
They are symbols from a bygone era, shit on by modern society.
The murder score is pretty similar at this point.
Right 3, Left 5.
Oh? Where do you get your numbers?
Already the times or someone has reported a highly suspicious transaction. Trump Sr sold 2 condos to Eric for 350 each. Problem is the market value was 850 each, or a mil gift basically to Eric. In NY the way transactions get reported, you can tell if the transaction was a gift in part. The transaction was done as market value and clearly was not. He committed tax fraud. So there is one clear one. I fully expect Mueller is going to subpoena his taxes and there will be more than enough fraud to impeach. Trumps real problem is he has pissed off the senate which is the high bar for impeachment 67. Normally I'd say no way, but I can see McConnell, Cruz, Rubio amoung many delighting in their guilty vote,
I agree with you that it is a very difficult situation - because we're supposed to be the good guys, and the good guys don't censor things. I believe this is one of the reasons that civilizations fall: when they become open enough that they allow the free speech and free action and weapons collection of people who want to undermine that very openness.
I don't fear them at all. For one thing, when I see a bunch of idiots marching down the street I avoid them. There's nothing worth my time there, at best it'll be boring At worst some shithead will attack me and when I put him down I'll end up in trouble. I have no use for any of these thugs, the police should bring out the rubber bullets and apply liberally. The fact you think there is anything okay with these tactics tells me all I need to know about you.
"antifa" -people who claim to be anti-fascist by being fascist. It's not often that one gets to see a bigger bunch of losers in action.
It is mildly amusing I suppose.
No I'm going with you are defending people committing violence and denying that it is happening. That puts you on their side.
Whoooo boy! You sure are enjoying your identity politics.
Om, nomnomnom...
The entire purpose of attacking BLM and Antifa is to create a false moral equivalency so the Neo-nazis don't look so bad.
Really? So you're saying when BLM groups were rioting, calling for dead whitey, and so on, and antifa were rioting, assaulting people and so on. This is to create a false equivalence? Or maybe you should be looking and seeing that there's no real difference between the extremism on either side, but it was those on the left that managed to start this shitstorm in the first place.
"Oh yes, they're violent, but yeah no, some antifa and blm guys rioted, and beat someone to near death, so it's like totally the same."
Fixed that for you.
Om, nomnomnom...
Unless your a christian run business
We're lucky the Nazi's won?
Clearly you're not Jewish.
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
Not redefined, this is what the word ORIGINALLY meant - hell I even cited the man considered the fucking inventor of Fascism, Musolini himself !
>However, I'm glad that there are lots of people becoming aware of the fascistic tactics of antifa
There is no such thing as 'fascistic tactics' and, if that phrase is to make any sense at all it would mean "a rush of lots of tanks at once as in the Blitzkrieg" which is the only known 'tactic' ever used specifically by a fascist regime and not by EVERYBODY else.
> You are a useful idiot for those who wish to divide us and cause civil unrest
Dividing people and causing civil unrest is literally the EXACT OPPOSITE of the goals of fascism. Fascism would want everybody perfectly united and would avoid any civil unrest by force. These are, again, not fascism BY THEMSELVES - they are attributes of the ideology but they are also found in some other ideologies, you need them and ALSO ethno-nationalism (and a few other pieces) to be fascism.
I'm NOT debating whether anti-fa is good or evil. I am debating whether they are fascist, and there is no shred of fascist ideology in their actions, their public statements their beliefs or their behavior. Punching fascists (aka fash-bashing) has been an act of heroism ever since fascism was first invented and they are merely following that same proud tradition. Everybody who subscribes to ethno-nationalist ideology has forfeited his right not to be punched by everybody he meets. That ideology came fucking close to destroying the entire world, caused the biggest war of all time, and the greatest death-toll of any war. It's no longer part of the opinions you can be forgiven for holding.
I wouldn't go so far as to say government should censor it - one one hand it would be effective, on the other hand I don't trust government to be narrow enough in what they ban - but punching nazis in the face makes you a hero, it has always made everyone who did it a hero and it always will and if I see one of these alt-right fuckers in the street I WILL be punchign too.
I didn't say those things aren't wrong. But as wrong as being a fascist ? Not possible. It's literally impossible for anything else to be as evil as fascism as NO other ideology has caused that much harm and bloodshed so rapidly.
Frankly - you would impugn Saddam Hussein's character if you called him a fascist - even HE wasn't THAT evil.
On the other hand -those fuckers on Saturday, they WERE fascist - they subscribe to the ideologies of fascism, and that makes me file them with the people who have historically held those views - and assume they will do what those people did.
Truly a new and exciting twist on the "no true Scotsman" argument.
I'm pretty damned sexy, if I do say so myself - and I do.
I do own a couple of pairs of Doc Martins. I did once consider going to a KKK rally. (I'm part black and sobered up before going but not before cutting holes in a pillow case. My goal was to wait until they lit the cross and then take off my hood and yell, "Surprise!")
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
I think it would have been much easier to embrace freedom by not forcing anyone to do anything they disagree with.
Easier =/= better.
Sometimes easier is better, as in this case.
You have made no persuasive argument to support this contention, not even an attempt. Because often, easier is worse, as in this case, due to the fact that your resorting to the "easy" method is simply an excuse to ignore abuses and injustice.
Politicians thought it would be easier to take away the freedoms of one group in order to suit another.
Nope. They thought it was necessary and requisite, to take steps to discourage and prevent actions that were determined to be discriminatory and interfering in free rights, and that further created an imposition upon the state that was contradictory to the established ethos.
See Shelley v. Kraemer and Heart of Atlanta Motel v. United States.
Nothing about being "easy" at all.
Instead, I predict this will continue to be an area of contention that would have been much better addressed by respecting everyone's freedom rather than the protected group of the week.
Yet your prediction is based on no actual argumentation, but merely a blind assertion, which again, demonstrates your partisan bias, as you fraudulently rail about freedom, purporting that your method is somehow "easier" yet don't admit that you're the one who wants to choose the far worse method, namely pretending that you will accomplish some end, but even at the best, your professed act of indifference is merely a choice that will allow the conflict to continue without resolution.
Really, you, like many people, need to think about what you're saying for a good long while.
No, I disagree. It's better to keep them hidden, it makes their cause harder to find and join, keeps them disorganized.
Cheering for communism doesn't bother me any more than cheering for capitalism. Both are shitty extreme economic systems that will enrich a few, cause society-wide suffering, and eventually mass death.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I thought you caught them on a bridge and drove an old police car right at them, I hate Illinois Nazis.
If 90% of the group stayed home, and they drew 100 people, they are still far less than significant in our population. We have more people with full face tattoos than nazis. There is no evidence of a rise is nazism so the 1930s is not exactly related. If anything, people have a knee jerk reaction against them. Ignore them and deny a platform, and they will fade. All this coverage just makes them seem relevant, when they are most clearly not. As the post said earlier, do not feed the trolls.
me too. I think if more people had ignored the nazi white supremacists they would be left to obscurity like before.
I don't fear them at all. For one thing, when I see a bunch of idiots marching down the street I avoid them.
And yet you were there in Charlottesville with your Challenger. Which crowd exactly were you avoiding?
Did we legitimize Mahmud Ahmadinejad or his views when we let him speak?
https://www.rferl.org/a/107877...
have similiar end goals in regards to authoritarianism.
The only real difference is in which policies are important to them.
America is due for either segregation or a purge. The racial segregation being an inevitable end goal when the right gets their own country, assuming the marginalized right leaning minorities don't enjoy being marginalized by white masters. The left will have an authoritarian surveillance state that respects the rights of ethnic minorities and women over Caucasians and men, which the 'left' won't realize until all the white-ish Silicon Valley types lose their hegemony and either decide they want to be in the 'right country', or themselves becoming economically and socially marginalized in the increasingly extremist 'left country' which is now also a surveillance state marginalizing all life in it, not all that different from its brethren in the 'right country.'
How this will affect the bigger globalist picture and Chinese/Russian hegemony over other regions of the world remains to be seen, but things are headed that way.
1) they were not white supremacists, or at least that was not the rally's intention. It was for conservatives:
"the City of Charlottesville and roving mobs of Antifa have cracked down on the First Amendment rights of conservatives and right wing activists. They have threatened our families, harassed our employers and tried to drive us from public spaces with threats of intimidation. We are not afraid. You will not divide us."
Did some white supremacists and neo-nazi's show up? Yes, just like any rally you're going to get some troublemakers, like in ferguson when some people looted stores but the majority of the people protesting did not.
2) The conservatives had a permit to be there. Antifa did not and came looking to fight.
3) She joined in with a violent antifa group to counter-protest a legally permitted rally. She should have known death was a real possibility. When you stand next to someone being violent, you have to know when the counter-attack happens you might be caught in the crossfire.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
they're protesting their first amendment rights being taking away. What could be more American than protesting for the right of free speech? This is the opposite of Germany in the 30s. If anything antifa is behaving like the nazis by telling people they do not have a voice and if they do try to speak they're met with violence.
UNITE THE RIGHT August 12th in Charlottesville’s Lee Park. In response to the Alt-Right’s peaceful demonstration in support of the Lee Monument on May 13th, the City of Charlottesville and roving mobs of Antifa have cracked down on the First Amendment rights of conservatives and right wing activists. They have threatened our families, harassed our employers and tried to drive us from public spaces with threats of intimidation. We are not afraid. You will not divide us.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
Antifa, BLM, KKK, Nazis, they are all just different acts in the same Shit Show. They are all extremists and bigots who think the other side has no right to express an opinion, or even live.
You, focusing on "rednecks" are also exhibiting a bigoted opinion.
Agreed. Seems in every protest or rally now days there are a few members that belong to one of those groups. Problem is when the media labels the entire group because of just a few members. The rally was not for kkk, nazis, white supremacists or even white nationalist. It was uniting conservatives in a fight for free speech: "the City of Charlottesville and roving mobs of Antifa have cracked down on the First Amendment rights of conservatives and right wing activists. They have threatened our families, harassed our employers and tried to drive us from public spaces with threats of intimidation. We are not afraid. You will not divide us."
Unfortunately Antifa showed up and started trouble and someone died as a result of it.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
Have you even seen some of vile spew from the antifa? Their hate is just as despicable as that of the facists. Your "no equivalency" is bullshit
I wish I could mod this up
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
Five Dead Cops would probably disagree with you. But some Leftist Extremist shot them dead.
Don't forget about the conservative congressman shot while playing baseball by a liberal
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
But no one said anything about paying for the consequences of that speech.
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself (and stupid people with torches and small-minded ideologies).
We know he was a white supremacist and neo-Nazi. What we don't know is how representative he was of the groups he at least tried to associate with.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
I very strongly disagree. In the 1920s, the Communist-Nazi violent clashes gave National Socialism some respectability (much like Communist resistance in WWII gave Communism respectability). Currently, they feed the lie that the left is violent and the right is comparatively peaceful. I want Nazis to be seen as evil without getting the issue confused by other partisan violence.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Neat sig
That particular tactic is common among authoritarians of every sort. It isn't limited to fascism.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
No, they're using authoritarian tactics, which I despise. They're playing the role of Communists in 1920s Germany, and (as a leftist) I really really wish they'd go away.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Or because of automation. The problem is that unskilled people can, in general, not make enough of an economic contribution to justify a decent wage. It's a real problem, but blaming offshoring or other countries or affirmative action is going to accomplish nothing. Any change in those would have only a temporary effect.
It used to be that a good work ethic was all you needed for moderate success. That is no longer the case.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
I'm almost positive he violated at least one of the emoluments clauses in the Constitution. If any of his holdings accepted money from any government, that's a violation of the Constitution, and I would consider it impeachable. It would be perfectly OK to impeach him on that basis, and then the Senate would conduct a trial based on the accusation.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Communism is just as discredited a philosophy as Fascism. Two sides of the same coin really. Comparing Communism to capitalism is bullshit. Communism murdered hundreds of millions in the 20th century. Capitalism lifted billions out of poverty.
Everybody should be allowed to talk though. The more Fascists or Communists talk, the worse they sound.
Ben Franklin said it best regarding free speech (para):
Now I'll grant their are a lot of unintelligent people, but there's no fixing that. Let them blather on about 'Anarcho Syndicalism' all they want, at least you know they are rocks.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Dallas BLM shooter. 5. DC Antifa shooter (bad shot) 0
Portland 'Bernie bro' (counting as right though as he shot lefties) 2. Charlotte 1.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
That's a valid consideration. But it's a consideration of tactics and efficacy, I was discussing morality. If you bring in those considerations it's quite likely that a very different conclusion would emerge. Most historians would side with you on the basis that fash-bashing was not, historically, a very effective tactic and often backfired by allowing fascists to claim they were the oppressed ones.
But that is a different subject to the morality of the issue. I still think it's morally justified to punch nazis in the face. That's not the same thing as saying I think it's a good IDEA to do that.
However, when they punch first, punching back is no longer academic - then at least, there is no doubt in my mind what should happen. It's fairly clear they were the first aggressors this weekend, and the more severe ones. Lots of witnesses reported the counter-protesters tending to those who got injured and the nazis showing no such concerns. And, of course, when push comes to shove the 19 most severe injuries and the only murder at the event was committed by a nazi - who was definitely trying to kill more than one.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Those unintelligent people will do a lot worse than blather on about the terrible ideas that are spread to them in the process of giving said ideas a platform for "debate."
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
If they're a majority, you're fucked anyhow.
If they're not, then letting them talk gives everybody else a chance to laugh and point. Including their children.
98% of people are neither Fascists or Communists. You gotta be _really_ stupid and gullible to buy into either.
If you were truly concerned, you would start with college liberal arts departments. You don't see any institutional support for Fascism, I only wish that were true for Communism.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Exactly. Precisely. How come nobody else is acknowledging this fact?
Freedom of speech is a very good idea. That does not come with free choice of podium. GoDaddy has every right to have terms of service, and to enforce them. This doesn't shut up the Nazis, but it does mean GoDaddy will not be associated with them.
Or do you think someone is obliged to support speech he or she finds hateful?
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Well, hate speech isn't illegal in the US, as long as it doesn't cross over to incitement or libel. "All Nazis should be killed" is legal. "Kill that Nazi!", when that's feasible, isn't. Other than that, you're right.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Gee...if there was only such a thing as Net Neutrality....
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Is a male supremacy site specializing in business decisions comparable to Nazi sites? Does it violate GoDaddy's terms of service? Or is it just possible that a slippery slope argument is conceivably faulty?
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
If you hadn't included 'as rapidly' your statement would be false on it's face. The commies killed far more in the 20th century. Pol Pot holds the title for largest % of population murdered in shortest time. There are a lot of ways to count the megadeaths. Only a few would make the Fascists worse than the Communists.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
It's coming right for me!
They're fascists!
Same, same. They only hit people they call fascists.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
... just setup their own hosting service. They can call it GoWhitey.com.
They should also setup their own social media sites, too, like FascistBook and Tweaker.
Dallas BLM shooter. 5. DC Antifa shooter (bad shot) 0
Portland 'Bernie bro' (counting as right though as he shot lefties) 2. Charlotte 1.
So just on homicides, you're leaving out examples like Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik(14, not counting themselves) Chris Harper-Mercer(9, not counting himself), Dylan Roof(9), David Ray Conley(8), Wade Michael Page(6, not counting himself), Alexandre Bissonnette(6), Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez(5, again not counting himself)Frazier Glenn Miller Jr.(3), Robert Lewis Dear, Jr.(3), John Russell Houser(2, not himself), Adam Purrington(1), and James Harris Jackson(1 stabbed), James Wenneker von Brunn (1), that makes your numbers way off, since even if I allow for you mysteriously focusing on a single year, you left off multiple examples....yeah, sorry, your methodology is as flawed as when you complained that the RUS didn't construct any electrical transmissions lines.
And that isn't even getting into how bad an idea a focus on homicides is.
I suggest you develop a better approach if you are going to espouse numbers.
Da-Nold! Da-Nold!
Your big buddy, David Duke called. He wants to know if you two are still on for golf on Saturday.
Yes? Cool!
Are you kidding? Antifa are causing havoc across the whole country! Call them fascists or Nazis, it all looks the same as Italy and Germany in the 1930s.
Why do you think white supremacists are on the right? KKK were the militant arm of the Democrats.
White supremacists also want big government - is that a left or right policy?
This fight is like the Nazis vs the communists - both left wing Marxists, but with different identified oppressor groups.
"Alt-Right" is that like saying "no your other right hand"? Because it looks like a left hand to me.
If late teens and young adults can't tell the difference between morally good and morally reprehensible behavior whose fault is that? You take away logic and reason, Western values and religion, then complain when people can't tell the difference between good and bad unless someone labels it for them.
Restore the foundation and they will be able to work it out without your (or anyone else's) help.
Really? So you're saying when BLM groups were rioting, calling for dead whitey, and so on, and antifa were rioting, assaulting people and so on. This is to create a false equivalence?
Yes, all of those lies of yours are pretty much attempting to create a false equivalence. You see, you claim that there are riots even when the worst that happens is somebody removes a flag from a monument. You claim assaults when the victim is the protesters at Kent State. You claim "calling for dead whitey" when your self-chosen president endorses murders himself.
Or maybe you should be looking and seeing that there's no real difference between the extremism on either side, but it was those on the left that managed to start this shitstorm in the first place.
There is a real difference, and actually, it was those on the right who have been storming up the shit for well...centuries. And also lying and claiming that it is the terrible left who is violent. Their consistent hypocrisy is rather evident.
Haymarket Square, Rosewood, Tulsa, Blair Mountain, Tienanmen, Kristalnacht, Nika, DC, they're all laid at the feet of the authoritarian right.
Or because of automation. The problem is that unskilled people can, in general, not make enough of an economic contribution to justify a decent wage.
Unfortunately, the people who blame the left or the government for this are correct. Policies such as minimum wage - driven by the left, with it's usual cluelessness about economics, and implemented by government (meaning by politicians seeking votes from the left) have made automation much more common than it otherwise would have been. Huge numbers of jobs are no longer available - most of them jobs that the unskilled could do.
In some cases, human beings can do the jobs better than machines (such as some agricultural tasks), and we can pay a high price for automation in terms of unintended consequences (also applicable to agriculture - the cultivars and crop layouts suitable for machine picking with current technology open us up to inefficiency, vulnerable monoculture crops, and over-use of herbicides and pesticides in the foods people eat).
Further, many of these jobs came with a good possibility of those people getting training that would raise their human capital - allowing them to get even better jobs in the future. For example, many of jobs that used to exist gave people the opportunity to become a jack-of-all-trades, perhaps moving into a career as a handyman, an electrician, a plumber - or had leadership opportunities such as becoming a foreman.
Poverty used to be something that people might have to endure for a while, but there was a lot of mobility and very few people would stay in poverty for their entire lives. That's less often the case today - there's less mobility and more concentration of wealth.
Then we have policies such as rent control, which in practice makes it very difficult for poor people to live near the places they work. Even police officers and firemen have trouble living in many of the cities that they serve. This in turn greatly increases the cost of commuting - and takes time away being able to get after-work training that can improve people's future job and income prospects.
Worse, government meddling with prices tends to lead to black markets - and this means that leftist-driven government policy undercuts trust in government, which has all kinds of negative consequences. One of them is that people are much more willing to look outside of government for solutions to their problems - which pushes them further away from the leftist ideas of big government solving everything, and creates even more distrust of the left.
So, yes, a lot of people hate or distrust the left - and for good reasons. The really sad thing is that we have a bunch of stupid government policies that actually harm the people most in need of help - but other policies could be implemented that would actually work in place of the existing policies (see the economics literature on these topics for details).
Unfortunately, the existence of dysfunctional policies tends to block much needed change.
So if the power company decides it doesn't like the way you think your be cool with no power. Because with electricity you might spread your ideas. If your local hospital thinks your an ass your be cool with them refusing services.... But hey if they have a rule and you violate it hey suck it up and figure it out. I thinks Nazi wannabes are full on larping fags..... You know how you handle them....IGNORE them. Endorsing refusal of serivce for personal ideas is guess what ? Very NAZI ish.
The possibility of account sharing doesn't mean there's less transparency when using pseudonyms...
Anyway, transparency wasn't my point. I said just what I meant: ACs reliably post stupid nonsense.
I figure that much of the time, AC idiocy could well be submitted by someone with an account, who knows that what they're writing is stupid, and so post as AC out of shame. Guess I'll never know, though.
So to defeat your enemy you must become them? Jesus, I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
Nope, just use their tactics. You don't also have to remove your brain like the Fascists,
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
He's the exception. Only a few people like him think this way that's why the US will look like Germany did in the 30s.
FTFY, Nazi Boy
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
I think the Progressive Politicians were actually thinking if there were any violence it would be gun violence, that would lend itself into their anti-gun agenda.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
They are "Martyrs of the Noble Cause", I'm not agreeing, just explaining. That happens a lot in almost every radical group.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Could be and in any regard it's pretty fucked up regardless their motivation because they are toying with people's life and well being to morally grandstand.
All GoDaddy is worried about is firstly some clowns blocking an IP address or a block of IP addresses belonging to GoDaddy's virtual host servers and knocking out the good with the bad; and secondly have the Feds show up with an arm full of national security letters and rsearch warrants.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Rent control has serious problems, but minimum wage should be enough to live on without government assistance. Lowering the minimum wage would increase the number of jobs somewhat, but more people would lose money than would get money. Seattle raised the minimum wage to $15 without apparent ill effect.
Agriculture uses the means it does because it's cheaper. Farmers have had the use of illegal immigrants for years, and they can be abused and underpaid. If farming has become more automated because of that, it isn't going to change because of a decrease in minimum wage. If we had more humans in agriculture, we'd still have the monocultures and chemical use.
Social mobility has gone down, but you seem to assume that it's government's fault. It looks to me that increasing concentrations of wealth in the upper classes and failure to provide opportunities for the lower classes is the predominant effect. If you want me to believe otherwise, provide evidence.
Leftists don't want the government to do everything (well, most don't). Leftists want everyone to have certain basic services (which includes providing a safety net) and certain opportunities. Currently, getting a good college education generally costs a lot of money, so people who don't have parents with a lot of money face a choice between doing without or getting student loans. Lots of public schools are crap, generally the ones in poor neighborhoods, and better-off people living there can get their kids into better private schools. I did not regularly go hungry as a kid, and that probably has helped me throughout life. I'd like everyone to have the opportunity for decent nutrition and good education up to whatever level a person can handle. The government would have to be involved, but it would not have to provide everything.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Morally, I consider it justified to punch someone out to avoid a worse immediate outcome, such as when said person throws the first punch. Not before, in general, not even for Nazis. Tactically, it's best if we leave the violence to the Nazis, because that makes them more obvious bad guys.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
I actually agree with you. For everybody EXCEPT Nazis.
NAZIs have two things that make them exceptional.
Firstly - they previously came pretty fucking close to destroying the world, we know what happens when you try to appease them. I won't make Chamberlain's mistake.
Secondly - they very core of their credo is denying the liberty and rights of others. To my mind, if you adopt such a belief, then you no longer have those rights yourself. Nobody deserves a right they would deny to another.
I take my guidance here from the philosopher Karl Popper in his groundbreaking treatise "The Paradox of Tolerance" written at the height of the power of the original NAZIs. The key argument is this - most of the time, we should let nazis be nazis. Try to reason with them. But when they gain power, they become a threat to the very existence of tolerance - because the heart of their credo is that tolerance shouldn't exist. They represent a very real threat of the eradication of the tolerant and tolerance with them.
When they gain any power at all, they should be beaten back - by force if nothing else is available because of the existential threat they represent to all liberty.
I'd say having a fellow travelor in the white house is a pretty significant gain of power.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Do you really want to take it all the back to the Communist revolution? It isn't going to make the left look good. You're going to have a hard time finding any time window that does.
I took it back to when antifa/alt-right started the current pissing contest/tantrum. Which is what we're discussing.
Granting any window is arbitrary, using the Charlotteville only analysis that the left is currently hyperventilating about is less accurate.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Yeah antifa turned up and made someone ram that woman with a Car. Right.
Maybe, but it's still important to use correct terminology so that what you say is useful to draw conclusions from.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Its not about what it means "to me" it's about what it means. It's the name of an ideology, primarily invented by Benito Musolini with 14 fundamental components. You need at least 10/13 to call something legitimately fascist. Fascists usually use the Fasces symbol to identify themselves but this is not a requirement.
These are the elements that make up fascism as an ideology:
1) A cult of tradition
Fascists are obsessed with tradition and the past, and fear the future and change. Look back at the pictures from Charlottesville - see how many of them have Roman and Medieval symbols on their flags and shields ? Look at all the talk about "traditional American values" - this is a classic fascist marker. Interestingly their obsession with tradition has no requirement on accuracy, it's their fantasy about what tradition was that matters not the reality of it. So several of the fascists this weekend were waving the black-eagle crest. That is an ancient roman symbol and they are correct in that. But what they don't know is that it was SPECIFICALLY the symbol of Saint Martin - who was black. When historians pointed this out to them on twitter they freaked the fuck out. Refusing to believe it even after being shown portraits of Saint Martin waving the Black-Eagle crest.
2) Rejection of modernism
This is an extension of the former - but it's present in all fascist movements Fascists reject current social mores and values. They reject modern ideas such as diversity and tolerance.
3) Irrationalism
There is no shortage of this in the new wave of American fascists. Their ostensible leader contradicts himself - sometimes within the same sentence (that's irrational). Their usage of traditional symbols without knowing what they really mean and rejecting the reality that those symbols actually disprove their own beliefs (like that Roman or Medieval Europe was mostly white) - is irrational. They idea that America can be primarily dominated by a particular race or culture is itself irrational.
4) Hatred of criticism
And boy do they hate to be criticized. Look at how the president responds to every criticism, look how he declares the media fake news to avoid people actually knowing when he screws up. And look how these white supremacists respond to anybody who criticises them - declaring them violent and even trying to project the title of "fascism" on to people who do not share a single element of the ideology.
5) Rejection of diversity
Well I don't think there is any doubt that this lot is opposed to diversity - even just in terms of living in the same country as other cultures - never mind systems to more closely integrate that diverse society.
6) Derived from individual or social frustration.
No doubt the Trump movement, and these extreme elements of it, was built upon frustration with the system - they announced it at every turn.
7) Nationalism
This is a fundamental component of all fascist movements. Since the people involved rarely have much else in common - they ideology teaches them to value, above all else, the one thing they DO have in common: their country and culture of origin.
8) Humiliated by the success of their enemies
I don't think this needs much explanantion - but all that ranting about the "system" and the "elites" is pretty much textbook examples of this. So is complaining about things like affirmative action - for giving advantages to perceived enemies whom they feel already have an unfair edge.
9) Rejection of peaceful coexistence
In fascism - violence is not just the first resort but the only acceptable one. Any attempt at peacemaking is perceived as cooperating with the enemy. Trump's rhetoric is textbook fascism in this regard. Not once has he ever suggested a diplomatic solution to any problem - it's ALWAYS a show of force. And the extremists we saw on saturday came ready for a fight, and when they killed somebody their only real regret is that the person didn't succeed in killing more. Also keep in mind that white supremacists h
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
> That's one of the greatest cons ever.
Funny how everyone who promises us Communism/Socialism gives us something that's "Not True Socialism" when it doesn't work out, no?
FWIW, you could say the same of today's leftist politicians, they all appear to be authoritarians using whatever is popular to try to get into power. What I can't figure out is why you keep supporting those types in spite of claiming to know the trick?
I suppose you disagree and believe that artists should be compelled by law to accept commissions to produce works of art promoting messages with which the artist disagrees?
Or do you think producing a wedding cake is nothing more than mixing some eggs and water into a couple of boxes of Duncan Hines and tossing the mixture into an oven for a couple of minutes and done!?