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Cloudflare Stops Supporting Neo-Nazi Site The Daily Stormer (arstechnica.com)
Timothy B. Lee reports via Ars Technica: All week, the infamous hate site Daily Stormer has been battling to stay online in the face of a concerted social media campaign to shut it down. The site lost its "dailystormer.com" domain on Monday after first GoDaddy and then Google Domains blacklisted it from their domain registration services. The site re-appeared online on Wednesday morning at a new domain name, dailystormer.ru. But within hours, the site had gone offline again after it was dropped by Cloudflare, an intermediary that defends customers against denial-of-service attacks. Daily Stormer's Andrew Anglin reported Cloudflare's decision to drop the site in a post on the social media site Gab. His post was first spotted by journalist Matthew Sheffield.
Has Cloudflare released a statement on this? Because...this is at odds with their previous behavior, and I want to know if it's just a one-off 'if you beat us hard enough, we'll do things' or if they've actually changed their mind. Because I'd kind of like them to stop helping DDOS providers.
A thousand pounds of wood moving at 300 feet per minute. Don't get in the way.
Sadly we can chalk up another 'win' to groupthink, oppression of minorities, and censorship.
Really, isn't the best way to fight such complete stupidity to keep it in the open?
Isn't censoring such people just making them feel more targeted, and therefore strengthening their solidarity?
All this has done is give a bunch of disenfranchised idiots more reason to hate..
Shine a light on them, don't chase them away to skulk in the dark, where they will do what they will do without anyone watching.
The feeding frenzy has only just begun.
Is only for left-think.
I miss the BBS days.
in order to protect free speech. If we allow them any outlet to speak,then we are destroying free speech. It's so that we must be so intolerant in order to be tolerant.
Nice one bruva Seems you have a personal problem and posting in on /. you're trying to get some free shrink time?
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Cloudflare should have stood their ground, the ACLU will! Speech that is not problematic doesn't need defending, as odious as stormfront is, this AC supports their right to publish.
How is the nazi movement doing? I don't know, we silenced them. Oh ok, everything is great then!
Obviously they do more than that and ban customers based on their liberal political ideologies.
I suspect these companies have failed to adequately discuss their moves with their lawyers, by taking actions based on viewpoint, they potentially forfeit their ability to claim legal protections as common carriers.
Perhaps a certain country is fanning the flames.
In a way, as an opponent of censorship, I sort of like this - this will almost definitely drive more and better adoption of censorship-resistant media like Tor, I2P and Freenet.
Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
Has it ever occurred to you that assholes running around yelling "WHITE POWER!", burning crosses on black people's lawns, being openly anti-semitic, being sexist pricks, and generally being violent pieces of shit might just have some people so pissed off that they're fighting fire with fire!? Or are you going to play the 'Victim' card for these dickheads, claiming they're being oppressed or somesuch shit? As if roided-up skinheads could EVER look like victims? Fucking GET REAL. The FACT of the matter is that they see the writing on the wall: The world is now TOO SMALL a place with TOO MANY PEOPLE IN IT for isolationism, fascism, nationalism, xenophobia, discrimination, and sexism to exist anymore. They either have to ADAPT or DIE. They're SCARED by the FACT that the 'Great White Male' no longer rules the planet, and like the cornered animals they are they lash out at EVERYTHING and EVERYONE in desperation. They have to GIVE IT UP and ACCEPT that the world is moving on and either move with it or BE LEFT BEHIND. You too, apparently, you dumb shit. GET OVER YOURSELF. Stop trying to hold back the inevitable evolution of the human race.
First they came for the racists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a racist.
Then they came for the sexists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a sexist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for me. And nobody was left to speak up for me.
Please stop using that word. I don't think you know what it means.
I was tortured in Auschwitz by real Nazis - ie. German SS soldiers. Nazis aren't 18 year old white males on your college campus you disagree with. Sorry, but that's true.
I think you hit all of the buzzwords and you appear to have reached maximum outrage. You make me sad, you easily led simpleton. Why don't you focus this energy into something constructive?
Except the only thing that these people are actually doing is saying shit you don't like.
You clearly want license to abuse people you don't like and are too arrogant to see this ever being used against you.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Then they came for the snowflakes. And nobody was left to speak up for me.
Fixed it for you, big fella.
Now put on your big boy pants and man up, sweet pea.
Cloudflare was bullied by SJWs to censor Daily Stormer.
Look, the guys behind Daily Stormer are shitbags, but they have a fucking right to say and believe what they want. Whomever disagrees might want to consider moving somewhere less free, perhaps North Korea.
Then they came for the straight people. You have nothing to worry about.
Except the only thing that these people are actually doing is saying shit you don't like.
Are you sure it's the *only* thing? A gal I know got spit on by a stranger in a coffee shop in Denver today, because she was Jewish. Now maybe *that* guy isn't like these other guys with the same ideology, and as long as they're only talking about things, and it's just this guy who's working his way up through assault, there's a line there. But it's hard to believe anyone who self-identifies as a Nazi isn't hoping to have a chance to do at least that much.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Well I guess the answer to the old question
How do you shut down Hitler's web hosting is
Tie his Cat 5 cables in NAZIS.
You mean like, if a gay guy wants to buy a wedding cake from your cake shop, and you refuse to do it because you don't condone gay marriage?
The site lost its "dailystormer.com" domain on Monday ... The site re-appeared online on Wednesday morning at a new domain name, dailystormer.ru. But within hours, the site had gone offline again after it was dropped by Cloudflare, ...
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Wait, I thought SJWs were snowflakes? Now they're the bullies?
You seem to have some mental confusion, bro.
Another triggered snowflake doesn't get it. Isn't your mommy around to explain this to you? No? Sigh... Cloudfare is a private company, they can kick whoever they want off of their service.
Bernie bro is off his meds again.
And here we have another basement dwelling loser whose fweelings got all hurt cuz he and his racist buddies can't bitch and moan about how black guys are running the world. #Sad!
Waaaaaaaa! You gonna be ok, snowflake? Looks like someone needs a waaaaambulance! LOL!
It's wrong to censor speech and limit what people can say, unless I disagree with them.
If someone says something that I find offensive, it must be removed from view.
Everyone should just join hands with me and think the same way I do about everything.
Seriously, if you don't enjoy reading hate mongering random crap either avoid it or have your own site to spew your view point.
I personally find organized religion, sports and anything dispensed by any government to be highly offensive yet I'm not trying to have it all removed from the internet or blocked.
The people fighting saying it's not censorship, it is, it is censorship with the justification of money and profit. 'If we host this we may lose other income'.
The companies have the right to host what they want, but it is all just one slippery slope.
But a baker is not free to choose not to make a commissioned, custom cake for a marriage they don't support. Right? Companies are free to discriminate only for certain targets...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Violent racist piece of shit detected. Lock all weapons, fire at will.
These discussions are hilarious. The usual suspects are acting all outraged, while deliberately missing the point and doing everything they can to distract everyone's attention from it.
The main point is: there are many entities on the Internet that are pretending to be infrastructure. But infrastructure is not supposed to make moral judgements. Infrastructure is not even supposed to make legal judgements. That's what courts are for.
Here is something to think about. Should electrical companies start shutting down their service to businesses that are accused of illegal activities? Should phone companies monitor calls and disconnect people who use racist slurs? Should post offices refuse to deliver mail from and to "bad" people?
Unless I'm missing something, this website was operational for many years, promoted the exact same views and yet was fully supported by the companies that just dropped it. AFAIK, there was no recent court injunction or anything of that sort. The only thing that changed was the media landscape.
This isn't even a question of Free Speech. The question is much simpler. Do you want Internet "infrastructure" companies to make judgements about everything they handle and take stuff down based on current events and social media campaigns? And how about manipulating information that goes through their servers and routers?
Except the only thing that these people are actually doing is saying shit you don't like.
And running people over with their cars. Tiny little detail you left out.
Did you choose to be straight? Were you born a Nazi?
Maybe legally protected class stuff applies.
Oh boy, there's a lot to unpack here. See this is the problem, you somehow think because they're bigoted assholes no one approves of somehow gives you a permit to be a bigoted asshole no one approves of. You're completely missing the point. You're just feeding the beast with all your own hatred.
You can dislike something without hating it. Hate is something we should not encourage from ANYONE. It never leads to anything good. Ever.
Like I can for example look at these groups and laugh at their idiocy that will never have anything but a very small following. All that adapt and evolution shit you vomited all over the place? That stuff takes a long time. Be patient young padawan. Eventually these people die. There's less and less of them every year.
But suppress them? Shame them openly? Make them feel like second class citizens? WOW, you just became them. Congratulations!
Waaaaaah, pooooooor Nazi cowards with their celebrating of attacks on protesters can't find a web host to spread their angsty crybaby bullshit, waaaaaaaah bad government is so unfair I blame Obama !
Give me a break you crybaby faggots lol. Nazi bitches get handled like we handled 'em in 44. KILL EM ALL. Nazism dies in prison, best case scenario. ENJOY!
I wonder, would you have told the Jews to man up when they faced injustice against the Nazi regime?
Careful when cheering against acceptable targets without reflection. Some of the worst things in history occurred because someone else was an acceptable target.
What the hell are you talking about? These are, when all is said and done, domestic white supremacist terrorists. Nazis, dude. This isn't a false equivalency, it's literally shutting down Nazis. You need to take a long look in the mirror if you really believe in the trash you're posting here, Alex Jones.
This is incredible. Their CEO admits he knew he was wrong, but he kicked them off anyway, and double pinky swear he won't do it again.
What a clusterfuck.
Bullshit.
I'm Jewish, living in the deep south, and nothing like what you describe has ever even come close to happening.
She's a liar, or unhinged, fabricating victimhood to support a false narrative.
If I understand this correctly; Russia has better support for free speech then America?
(taking it up the ass isn't free speech)
Bullshit.
I'm Jewish, living in the deep south, and nothing like what you describe has ever even come close to happening.
She's a liar, or unhinged, fabricating victimhood to support a false narrative.
And are you retarded too? Since when is Denver in the "deep south"?
Also, both of you are idiots for anecdotal stories: I once saw a white person help a black person, there are no racists!
I once saw a white person hang a black person, all whites are racists!
The fuck with all this false equivalency "I know someone who" or "my experience is". You all fucking deprived of oxygen just long enough to function as a vapid keyboard tester on the internet?
Surprise! You are not the only motherfuckers living here.
kind of a shame, I thought Cloudflare didn't take down anything without a warrant.
But a baker is not free to choose not to make a commissioned, custom cake for a marriage they don't support. Right?
If they are in a commercial business? And wish to remain on business? Nope. Just like you are not free to ignore a marriage you don't support. The law will tell you that you have no standing.
They can also shut you down if you don't follow the health core. They can even put you in prison for it.
Companies are free to discriminate only for certain targets...
Just like you are free to drive down the road. As long as yo have a license. And your car is registered. And you obey the laws. And you keep your car insured.
Also, you can shoot somebody and go to prison. Or you can shoot somebody and not go to prison.
It is almost like we can distinguish between different things, including human sexuality and a political agenda that advances a cause of oppression and bigotry. Just like we can tell the difference between rape and consensual sex. Or being drunk and being sober. Or being a lying troll and honest discourse.
Or a blowhard incompetent moron in the oval office and a pile of monkey turds.
Ha!
His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
Apples and oranges.
If you're running a business of public accommodation (that is, a business open to the public), then you cannot legally refuse service to a customer solely because that customer is in a protected class.
Federally, there are several protected classes. Gender, nation of origin, age, race, etc. Each state is free to _add_ to that list (and several have), but they can't take any of those classes off of the federal list.
So, a bakery cannot refuse service to someone solely because, for example, they are black, or from France, or old.
In the case of the bakery in Colorado, sexual orientation is a protected class. (Colorado added it to their list in 1990.)
Therefore, the bakery in question cannot legally discriminate against the same-sex couple wanting a cake solely for the reason for their sexual orientation.
If the bakery in question had been booked solid and been unable to produce the cake in time for the event, and told the customers that, there wouldn't have been a discrimination case.
If the bakery in question didn't even have the ability/facilities to produce wedding cakes (say they were a bakery that only did cupcakes and other pastries), and told the customers that, there wouldn't have been a discrimination case.
The bakery owner made the very dumb (legally) statement of telling the couple that he was denying them service based on their sexual orientation.
Now, why is it apples and oranges?
Because being a racist isn't a protected class. But wait, I hear you cry, they're all white racists! Isn't race a protected class?
Yes, it is.
But they're not being refused service because they're white. They're being refused service because they're racists. And Cloudflare can almost certainly find something in their ToS that will legally let them go "You violated this term. Buh-bye."
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
How did he know she was Jewish?
So Cloudflare won't stand up for speech, but they'll stand up for black hat criminal operations? WTF?
The problem with taking a stance is that now you have to justify why you take action sometimes and not other times. I totally get why Cloudflare would back down here and that's their call.
But if they're going to start policing content, then why the hell are they shutting down the routing of objectionable content, but not clearly criminal content? Along with TOR, they're the haven of choice for Black Hats and other criminal groups. Brian Krebs and others have been trying to get them to stop for years, to no avail. And the people they are protecting are causing actual (criminal) damages to other groups.
If Cloudflare wants to be a true neutral party, I can respect that. Similarly, if they want to have a say over the traffic they route, I can respect that as well. But if they're going to take the latter route, then I think they need to be held more accountable for all the scumbag criminals that they provide protection for.
Ya, and that will be an equivalent argument once the left takes over a country and murders millions of people. The left has a long way to go till they are as bad as the Nazis, meanwhile you are here defending Nazis!
What if the baker would sell a custom made wedding cake to a homosexual couple...for their friend's straight wedding?
But that same baker would refuse to sell a custom made wedding cake to a heterosexual couple...for their friend's gay wedding?
Refusing to bake a "White PPL Rule and Blacks Should Be Slaves" custom cake is just as reasonable as having a religious thing against homosexual marriage. That is to say, both are stupid refusals, but at a certain point, you gotta stop poking the bear.
Although in this case I have no reason to believe otherwise, there's no way for you or I to verify whether or not it really was - or, if it was, just _how_ hateful and whether it really deserved its fate.
Sure there is: the site can still be seen on archive.org.
Good riddance.
> Tiny little detail you left out.
Probably because it's inaccurate to claim multiple people are "running people over with THEIR cars".
Sounds a lot like you're lumping people together to champion stigmatizing a group.
I'm sure that tactic has never gone badly.
Being racist is a choice. Being a Jew is not a choice.
Okay.
Up until today, I'd never heard of it happening to anyone, either. But there's a shit-storm of riled up people right now, and I wouldn't be surprised if a few other weird things don't happen before they settle down.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
> And Cloudflare can almost certainly find something in their ToS
They don't. Most companies just put in an at-will clause, because trying to legally describe discrimination isn't going to help them anyway.
All groups that feel marginalized turn to violence (the only alternative to speech), so I don't buy the "see that car mowing people down" nonsense. Fringe groups take on mentally disturbed people because they have a membership problem and many because their ideas aren't sophisticated enough to recruit intelligent people. Bigger groups have mechanisms to identify and push out aberrant behavior and to cover up, in some cases (eg Smuggly-puff). Obviously, the white supremist groups have had recruiting problems for nearly a generation (even in prisons).
James Fields was obviously a troubled person, who joined up with a bad group. Do you wonder if he was born black, would he have done the same thing in the name of BLM? or if he was born Chinese, if he would have participated in Mao's Cultural Revolution? There are lots of useful idiots and he is another icon for the US.
Talking about white supremists, serves to distract from the issue. Let's talk about California Secession (or electoral college abolishonist), ISIS, the disabled, the US military, J-pop enthusiasts, which are all groups that are relatively similar in my mind, if I weren't from this planet. I think Z but what happens when my group Z is treated like this? Is it right? What does that mean? Is it a problem because of some misplaced guilt or because we KNOW that people are influenced by it? Is it right to fight that influence, or are ideas/ideology really not all equal and this is a capitalist society selecting for/against them on some metric of the common good? If ideas catch on, shouldn't they be perpetuated (the struggle of every marginalized group)? Sorry feminists, sorry anti-vaxxers, sorry christians/orthodoxed-anything (your time will come).
I still see people flailing about and taking political sides without having a clear understanding of why they are taking sides...mostly it seems to be a socialization issue and that's dangerously fickle. I'm waiting for some clever supremist to play the game and make a bona-fide religion. Then things might get more interesting. That not being the case, there's nothing wrong with Cloudflare's bowing to the media pressure as a faux-proxy of public pressure...except most readers know the public isn't sophisticated enough to understand what they even do. That's considered fair game in the US, and I'm willing to believe it's for the common good.
A gal I know got spit on by a stranger in a coffee shop in Denver today, because she was Jewish.
How does a stranger know she is Jewish?
Could there be a more reasonable explanation? I can think of several.
The implication being what, that you're one wild weekend away from eating dicks yourself? Did you hear both sides of the issue before making this decision? I'm just sayin, girl, if you don't think of that characteristic as being pretty solidly fixed one way or another then that may be your own problem.
Come to the rainbow side, we have the best parties.
So - Cloudflare is NOT a commercial business? Or - since they are - they must provide their services to individuals with different political leanings (which is what the original intent of the First Amendment was - protection of poltical speech)?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Apples and oranges.
If you're running a business of public accommodation (that is, a business open to the public), then you cannot legally refuse service to a customer solely because that customer is in a protected class.
So, Cloudflare does NOT run a business of public accommodation, then? And political speech IS a protected class - it's called the First Amendment. Or are "some animals more equal than others"?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Now that Cloudflare has kicked the Nazi's to the curb, let's get busy with some other more offensive sites that really have no business having access to the net. Everyone gets to name one.
Westboro Baptist Church. They gotta go. That trash definitely doesn't deserve free speech, they condone killing American soldiers!
So much for the idea someone posted yesterday that Russia would never help Nazis. When half the 'alt-right' who post here are Russians what else would you expect?
First they came for the Nazis? lol at your slippery slope fallacy.
Well, he asked, and she said yes. And then he spit on her. Now why he had a reason to ask, I don't know. But it was clearly and explicitly because of her faith.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Well, if you are too much of a coward to place your name behind your statements, you won't be missed. Well, that and the fact that you are almost certainly racist, sexist, and don't date outside of your immediate family.
is that you are lying. Anything else is irrelevant.
when you and your friends all wear the same clothing, cary the asame racist flags and chant the same racist slogans, it is fairly reasonable to lump you all together.
pretty sure racist scumbags are not a protected class kid. Too bad for you, but that is how it is.
Nazism can be considered a religion. What are you going to do now?
No seriously, there is kippah for men, but all jewish women I know of, you would not be able to tell they are unless they tell you first. I am thinking that only half the story, or even maybe less is told here.... If there was such event to begin with.
But please let me correct you : ONE of them ran over an innocent person , murdering her. Not the whole group. ONE hacker hacking a medical device and killing one person does not make all other responsible. ONE Christian killing a gay does not make all christian responsible. ONE Muslim killing anybody with an IED does not make all responsible. One Gamersgate guy sending death threat to Anita Sarkezan does not make the whole group bad. I am sorry but I CANNOT stand such generalization, whether they are done on my friend or group I belong to (athiest, scientist, Pathfinder/DnD roleplayer - go ahead laugh) or group I do not belong to (all others above).
What you MAY have wanted to tell is that the racist supremacist asshole did not condemn loudly enough the action of the scumbag murderer. BUT again, this is the same stupid reasonning which is used against other group so it makes me uncomfortable. Condemn people for the action they do , do not condemn whole group for the action other did. Yes even the neo nazi. But you can condemn them all of having stupid racist ideology and so forth, it is after all how they advertize themselves, but condemning the whole group for the murder of the woman is incorrect.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
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My son, who is NOT Jewish, works as a cashier in a grocery store in the Northeast. Last week, as he was explaining to a female customer how to skip the "loyalty info" screen so she could swipe her card, she suddenly erupted in an anti-Semitic tirade against him.
A manager & a security guy rushed over and politely escorted her from the store (she was not allowed to complete her purchase). This happened a few days before Charlottesville, and I didn't, until I saw this thread, connect it with any kind of national phenomenon.
But I'm less willing, now, to dismiss an anecdote from Denver of similar public anti-Semitism, after what I heard from my son.
As for Cloudflare, I agree with everything the CEO wrote. He shouldn't have the power to decide who gets censored, and yet having the haters say "Cloudflare is one of us" is too much to bear in the days after Charlottesville.
"Eventually these people die. There's less and less of them every year." - bigotry under the banner of "free speech" has been given a pass the last few years so lots have come out of hiding as they now feel empowered.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
don't confuse "political leanings or racism" which can change with education with someone who is born jewish, gay, non-white etc which cannot change - seems to be a common mistake to not be able to differentiate these 2 things.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Careful!
Becoming a transgender is *DEFINITELY* a choice.
It has not been proven scientifically that homosexuality in all cases is never a choice, either...
Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
Is being a Jew more of a matter of heredity or faith? I've never heard of one being just because of faith...
Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
Oh lord no, not yet another gay skinhead nazi, please, there are enough already. Seriously, there's loads of them and they don't seem to understand the contradiction.
And running people over with their cars. Tiny little detail you left out."
And how much mileage do you think you can get out of this "tiny detail?" Maybe that mentally ill person who drove the car would not have done so if hundreds of violent antifa would not have shown up with baseball bats in the first place. Like they consistently do it seems on a regular basis since Trump's election.
Nothing, because it isn't, and even if it were acts of violence or threats of such would still not be covered. Isis claim to be Muslim, so what?
speech is protected in so much as you can't interfere with it, they do not have to facilitate your ability to make said speech or provide you with a service (except if they were common carriers or critical services, which they are not).
What's that? Being Muslim is a choice, so we should persecute them?
Sort of a sick stance to take. Just because ideas are repugnant doesn't mean we should persecute people who sincerely hold them. After all, I think your opinion is repugnant -- should we start going after you?
I'm not forget the driving into people who say things against them!
"I once saw a Nazi spit on a Jew, purely because she was Jewish and he was a Nazi, who by definition follow a belief of hating Jews" is a perfectly valid response to "Nazis are all fun-loving people who wouldn't hurt a fly and aren't at all bigoted!". Check your logic.
It's like communist maioists in the USA. A figment of your terrified life made to make you feel like your systemic fear is somehow rational rather than an irrational phobia of "other".
But what the other AC meant was that people have accused antifa of being on the other side protesting,when the protesters were not antifa never siad they were antifa and were instead protesting the rally. Which is something anyone can do and does not make someone "antifa".
Apparently you didn't even mean anything that exists in real life, defined solely to ensure that you cannot be wrong, because you've defined antifa to be what you're complaining about.
It's still the null set.
In the Netherlands police are trying (and failing) to disband Outlaw Motor Gangs based on the criminal activities of their members. Everybody knows there is a big correlation between OMG membership and crime, but the crimes are not orchestrated by the OMG. You cannot blame an entire organisation because one member committed a crime.
Volkert van der Graaf, who killed the dutch politician Pim Fortuyn 9 days before the 2002 elections, was a vegan and memeber of environmental pressure group Milieudefensie. Should we have pulled the plug on al vegan and milieudefensie websites?
Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh was killed by muslim Mohammed Bouyeri after being critical of Islam. Should we ban all islam websites? And close all salafist mosques?
I am not a fan of the far right or the far left. I am peacefully a bit left of the center. This witch-hunt is the end of free speech. If we give in to those social justice warriors you might as well start chipping the heads of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson from Mount Rushmore as they were slaveowners. Do you know who else destroys ancient art that does not conform to their ideology? Terrorist group IS.
First they came for the nazis, and I didn't give a shit, because they're fucking nazis, duh.
Eat the rich.
Murder can never be excused.
Eat the rich.
They should be shamed openly, laughed at and not given a moment's peace. By simply letting them be, you are complicit in the recent rise of the extreme right.
Eat the rich.
They do not have the right to run attack pieces full of personal harassment, and especially not when the person being attacked is a recent murder victim.
Eat the rich.
LOL Stalin and Mao would like to say hello.
Jews are known haters of Palestinians
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
So the self-styled libertarians are throwing hissy fits about private businesses choosing not to host their material, for the very valid reason, that it is harmful to their business.
The irony is massive, this is a textbook example of what they claim to to want, the market regulating itself. Cloudflare do not want the bad publicity of hosting these knuckleheads who can't provide the cash needed to make this a worthwhile business decision.
And before you blurt out 'censorship and what about free speech', this expectation only applies to the government you loathe so much.
Let the Nazi shits scuttle off to the dark web with the paedos, no one will stop them from posting their drivel, because nobody will have to read it.
Explain, then, how bakers must make cakes for whomever walks through the door - under threat of penalty by the Government. Is their speech somehow less protected, or is it because we've chosen to say some speech is not protected?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Why does that matter? Either speech is protected or it is not. Either freedom of association is protected or not. If you're going to protect it only for certain classes of people - then you are necessarily requiring discrimination and suspension of rights. You might as well just say "being a Nazi is illegal" and be done with it.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Pithy, but false. Murder is unlawful killing. If you assassinated Hitler, you'd have committed murder.
Care to try again?
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Wait, what? You think if you're born Jewish or any other religion that you can't change that?
Businesses have no responsibility to provide services to such a group and it isn't oppression or censorship to refuse them service, in fact it would be oppression and censorship to force them to support them.
What if a business finds homosexual behaviour abhorrent, do they have a responsibility to provide services to "such a group"? Who gets to decide what "such a group" is? Is there a publicly checklist available so that due process can be followed in a consistent manner?
During the French Revolution and Henry VIII's reign, Catholics were "such a group" (with far worse consequences than most people would face now--guillotines and all). During McCarthyism left-leaning people were "such a group". Not too many years ago homosexuals were "such a group".
They came for the "Nazis" but anybody can be labeled a Nazi these days. During the last presidential election I recall pretty much anybody arguing against amnesty for illegal immigrants was called a Nazi.
This is incredible. Their CEO admits he knew he was wrong, but he kicked them off anyway, and double pinky swear he won't do it again.
What a clusterfuck.
Typical lies of the alt-right bubble-brains.
According to the interview with Matthew Prince (Cloudflare CEO), he felt that he had to boot the Daily Stormer from Cloudflare because the Daily Stormer started claiming that Cloudlfare was run by Neo-nazis, and used Cloudflare's refusal to boot them as evidence to support their claims. So they got booted because they made disparaging claims about Cloudflare and personally insulted Matthew Prince, the CEO, by claiming he was one of them.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Cloudflare was bullied by SJWs to censor Daily Stormer.
Look, the bully who drove the Daily Stormer off of Cloudflare is the Daily Stormer. They called the CEO a Neo-nazi and claimed he was "one-of-them". In response he said "Fuck no and fuck you assholes" and kicked them off his service.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
You are labouring and arguing under a misconception, the CEO of Cloudflare hates the Stormfront guys but he was willing to let them continue using the service until they personally insulted him and started touting Cloudflare's refusal to terminate their service as evidence that Cloudflare was a White Supremacist company. You are not only totally allowed to fire customers who insult you and damage the reputation of your company, you are ethically and morally required to do so.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
I am not sure how true that is, but cloudflare has done little or nothing against piracy sites, and sites peddling child porn. It would be completely out of character for them to take down a site that otherwise isn't illegal in the US.
According to the interview with Matthew Prince (Cloudflare CEO), he felt that he had to boot the Daily Stormer from Cloudflare because the Daily Stormer started claiming that Cloudlfare was run by Neo-nazis, and used Cloudflare's refusal to boot them as evidence to support their claims.
At first glance, this sounded like bullshit. So I checked, and that is exactly what happened.
From https://blog.cloudflare.com/wh...
The tipping point for us making this decision was that the team behind Daily Stormer made the claim that we were secretly supporters of their ideology.
So, the operators of The Daily Stormer decided to run their mouths about the one company that tolerated their content. Not bright, unless they secretly craved a backwater existence on Tor.
---
According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
Explain, then, how bakers must make cakes for whomever walks through the door - under threat of penalty by the Government,
That's easy. They aren't, in fact, required to make cakes for anyone who walks through the door.
Bulllshit. The only choice in the GLBTQ... Spectrum is to medically transition as an adult. The vast majority of queer people have a comfort level of gender expression that can be appeased by having people not being shitty and judgemental to them. The smaller portion that want to medically transition because it terrifies them that their body is changing in ways that they don't like, can only be appeased by medical transition.
There is a huge overlap between basement dwelling nerds/autistic assholes (aspergers) and queer-phobic behaviour because they don't like seeing their fantasy fetishes become ugly realities.
Only trans people who start transition medically before they are 13 ever have good outcomes. Those who transition in their 40's, do so knowing that they will have a much harder life because they will not pass.
How many people, like myself, had never heard of The Daily Stormer before? Now I can't not hear about them as service provider after service provider drops them because of their content. If they had simply left them alone, I would still be blissfully ignorant of their website.
The same logic applies to the anti-protestors at Charlottesville. What could have been a quick blurb about a rally that nobody cared about turned into an absolute shitstorm.
You're making this up. That's so unrealistic.
Would you like to see something else they shut down last year?
They even gave themselves an award for using the weight of the mass media against us.
http://shortyawards.com/1st-so...
However, even though they shut us down, we managed to survive thanks to technologies like ZeroNet and IPFS.
You can download it here: https://tiny.cc/echoes
'nuff said.
I'm talking about the actual, self-avowed, proud nazis, not some random people some people decided to label as "nazis".
Eat the rich.
That would have happened during a time of war, against an enemy combatant. I would not be a murderer, since I would by definition be acting as a proxy for my country, which would then be responsible for my actions during a time of war.
Eat the rich.
Quality post. Sorry about the extra-mod-points-for-Nazis promotion Slashdot is running lately.
Ahh, you support "stop and frisk" then.
Apparently you haven't heard of YouTube. Head over there and check out the startling variety of horrible shit people do to each other with no provocation at all.
Yes, it's a religion. You can convert to it, and you can convert away from it.
The matrilineal tradition goes back a long way as a way of assigning default membership, but how many people aren't raised in the religions of their mothers? And of course there are cultural ties as well, which is another reason I think some people mix it up with ethnicity, but it really isn't, any more than it would make sense to call the French a race, or Buddhists a race.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Why the actual FUCK would I NOT want to 'stigmatize' Neo-Nazis? They're assholes, plain and simple. Are you a neo-nazi? You're sure sounding like one, sticking up for them like this.
By that standard, Comcast should sever connections with its entire customer base.
Alright, pretend you're a German citizen.
Care to try again?
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
It's one thing to expect Cloudfare to professionally provide a service, but it's a whole other thing for a customer of Cloudfare to try to put bullshit into their mouths. Cloudfare was totally justified in "firing" their customer over that. I would expect anyone I do business with, to cut me off if started talking about them in that way.
Like, if I start telling people "My wireless ISP, T-Mobile, fully endorses what I say" then I'd expect T-Mobile to be very fucking annoyed, should it rise to their attention. OTOH if I said "T-Mobile has remaining reliable even when I used them for things they don't like" then that would really be me endorsing them, rather than shitting on them like the Nazis did.
tl;dnr: don't try to put your words in someone else's mouth. That's how you piss people off, even professionals. Don't. To this ancient advice we can now append the 2017 addendum, "That's what Nazis do!"
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
In this case you are wrong, this guy: https://slashdot.org/comments.... is right. Are you a neo-nazi sympathizer? No fence-sitting allowed.
No, you're just pushing stereotype or prejudice. There is of course a definite conflict in the Middle East between Israelis and Palestinians, and that has even spilled over along religious lines, but lump the whole religion in as "known haters" is patently ridiculous.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Faith is a Christian invention. This isn't really what you're asking, but I think it's interesting: the idea that beliefs are important in a religious context started with Christianity. Specifically with Saint Paul's interpretation of a certain passage in the Book of Job. For religions older than Christianity, like Judaism, your beliefs don't mean squat, it's only your actions which matter.
So all of those weird rules that orthodox Jews follow, the ones which seem so silly - the Jews who are doing them think they're silly too. By doing them anyway, despite being silly, they are demonstrating their dedication to God. Taking God's rules to a ridiculous extreme - that's deliberate. It shows greater dedication to do something ridiculous than to do something obvious.
Growing up in a predominately Christian country, I didn't get that for a long time. I had always thought of religion as being about beliefs, but recognizing that for many religions that's not true clarified a lot of things for me. How could the Egyptians, for example, worship an evil god? Answer: "Worship" was really about asking for favors or appeasement. Priests of Set were performing a public service.
Anyway, the answer to your question is a little vague: ostensibly, all Jews are descended from Abraham. So it's hereditary. But many Jewish sects have adopted conversion practices. So it's not strictly about heredity, but it's not about faith either.
Except the only thing that these people are actually doing is saying shit you don't like.
You clearly want license to abuse people you don't like and are too arrogant to see this ever being used against you.
You mean the people protesting against the extreme right? Then you're dead wrong. If you're talking about the other side, the one that beats people for saying things they don't like, the people driving cars into people for saying things they don't like... then you're correct. Its the far-right that requires everyone else to silently agree with them and gets violent when someone opposes them.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Cloudflare.
Supports ISIS. Al Qaeda. Communist terrorists.
Folks who use Nazi symbolism as an edgy joke? Not so much.
So - Cloudflare is NOT a commercial business? Or - since they are - they must provide their services to individuals with different political leanings (which is what the original intent of the First Amendment was - protection of poltical speech)?
Since when have corporations been responsible for enforcing civil rights?
You seem to have that completely backwards.
Cloud-flare is a commercial business, they have the right to pick and chose their clients. This means distancing themselves from clients that could bring their business into ill repute.
Being a Nazi is not a protected class, when I fill out an ESTA to travel to the united states, I was expressly asked if I was or had any affiliation to any Nazi organisation. Same with several terrorist organisations. I'm absolutely certain you would not defend Al Quaeda in the same way you're defending white supremacists... Hell you wouldn't defend the (now defunct) Black Panthers, why do white people get a free pass. I denouce Al Quaeda as a hateful organisation and do not blame any business for not wanting to be in any way associated with them, so why should I give white supremacists a free pass?
The law in no way says that private businesses have to provide a platform for political speech. It in no way says it has to provide it for hateful speech. In fact a private business is in no way obligated to provide anyone with a platform. Free speech means the government cant arrest you for crisitising it. It does not mean you can say anything you like to anyone, nor does it mean everyone else has to stay silent and agree with you.
You've got a fundamental misunderstanding of what free speech is.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
I don't think you understand the idea of "protected class", speech is not part of it people are. It's the reason states were able to get away with gerrymandering under the guise of drawing lines in regards to Dem/Rep and not black/white which would have been illegal.
horror vacui
While I don't know if he does or not, it is obvious that you prefer blindly changing the subject when are caught in the wrong.
don't feel too bad, a lot of young children think they can do that to get out of trouble.
So if I'm a Christian baker, and known as such by most of my clients and my neighbors and friends, I cannot "fire" a customer who's lifestyle I don't agree with, and find insullting? That if I feel it becomes known I made a wedding cake for a gay wedding it may damage the reputation of my company and myself, personally?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
The Court disagrees so far...
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I'm not in any trouble since I don't support the extremists on either end. But it's curious how profiling is wrong when used against one group, but it's just fine if it's used against another group. This whole topic has double-standard overload.
...because she was Jewish
But how did the spitter know she was Jewish?
Something tells me there's more to this story. Tell us the truth-- was she being a jerk and got in a fight with someone?
So - could Christian baker refuse to make a cake for a gay wedding, on the grounds that it would sully their reputation with their main constiuency (fundamentalist Christians)? Or is that "diferent" because we have protected classes - meaning, all animals are equal but some are more equal than others?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Where is "protected class" covered in the Constitution? I see where freedom of speech and freedom of association are explicitly called out, but I don't see this "protected class" nonsense where some are More Equal than others... Why is hating a person who is a racial minority so much worse than hating someone who is rich or someone who is fat or someone who dresses like a slob or wears another team's jersey?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Did you read the court decision? The ACLU page linked to it. It supports my assertion. The court did not rule that bakeries, or anybody, had to server everyone who walked in the door.
The court ruled that you can't turn people away for being a member of a protected class. So you can't refuse to serve people because they're a particular gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc.
You can certainly turn them away for anything that's not on the short list, including "I just didn't like them."
Profiling on a trait someone is born with is wrong, because it doesn't say anything about them as a person.
Profiling based on a person's self-proclaimed interests and intentions is nothing at all like that. It is perfectly valid to judge someone based on what they say and do.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Wow. What an awesome internet burn.
Totally! Good thing you can't convert to it!
I'm going to assume that you're seriously asking this.
The answer is that the the protected classes are groups of people who had been widely singled out to be deprived of the rights that everyone else shares. The courts determined that the discrimination was severe enough as to amount to a widespread violation of the equal protection clause of the Constitution.
Those groups were selected for special protection because there was no other effective way to correct the problem. The argument is that because of the special discrimination they suffer, the special protection does not give them more rights than everyone else, it brings them to parity with everyone else.
The hope is that the day will come when these groups are no longer singled out, and their special status will no longer be required.
I'm quite sure that you disagree with this argument, but that's what it is, and why the courts feel that it is Constitutionally required.
You make excuses for neo Nazis, you get treated like a neo Nazi. Walks like a duck etc. The only difference between the neo Nazis and their apologists is that the former are shameless in their hate & are proud of their violence; their snowflake apologists hide behind their cowardly whataboutery.
Da-Nold! Da-Nold!
Your KKK supporters give you 7 Stars out of 10 on the "Racist Friendly-O-Meter"! While you are doing well, the KKK would like to offer you some White Positive advice.
First, they would like more guns and ammo. Second, they would like you to start 'doing something' about the Jews, Blacks, and Mexicans. Nothing serious, just make them wear stars on their jackets. To keep track of them. Third, your White House is neither white enough, nor male enough, nor rich-guy enough. Please address these matters and see your approval ratings soar to 10 out of 10 on the Racist Friendly-O-Meter!
Why not talk a bit about the co-incidence of Autism and your precious transgender people?
TFW the "explosion" of transgenderism (and especially transtrenderism) is caused by the explosion of Autism. (feels bad man)
Oh, I know what they are, the question was somewhat rhetorical, but thank you for writing it out because others might not understand! And hopefully people will see that the system is INHERENTLY discriminatory, and enforced as such, and that the now-capricious application of discriminatory laws and regulations can easily swing to any group as Government dictates. We've codified, over the last 50 years, fascism and discrimination into law. "Some Animals are More Equal than Others" is the rule - and who is considered that "Animal" can and will change. Fascism has been here, it's just the latest activists acting like brownshirt thugs because they currently get to be the "Animal"...
One of the biggest discriminators is the Federal Government itself. It will not work or hire to do anything with anyone without knowing racial and gender information. A color blind society will not exist as long as the Federal Government insists on breaking people down racial divides and insists on enforcing racial-based laws. I believe that's on purpose, as it's a great way to keep one side satiated and the other side cowed - divided, so they cannot realize the real source of division.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
That's a real nice distinction you've got there. Now if only everyone else made it.
The entire reason anyone here (outside of neo-Nazi's and their sympathizers) brings up the point that it's bad to make these "Nazi's must die" blanket statements is because of the well established practice of calling anyone who disagrees with your ideology a Nazi.
We're in the brave new age of social media hate mobs. Calling someone a Nazi without evidence is enough to trigger a cascade of abuse from the slacktivists on Twitter. Surely you can see why "not some random people some people decided to label as 'nazis'" isn't part of the equation, or is someone going to be out there at the protests making sure the brave Nazi-punchers of Antifa are only punching real Nazis (tm)?
What's that? They think everyone right of Lenin is a "fash" and thus legitimate targets of their political violence? What a fucking shock and surprise! I'm flabbergasted, I literally can't even right now!
Finally, it should be the fucking police out there "bashing the fash" whenever they do anything even remotely illegal, not a bunch of teenagers and twenty-somethings in all black shouting Communist slogans. Instead, the police are told to stand down and let the sparks fly. The ensuing violence will be laid at the feet of the evildoers and the brave Nazi-punching communists will be hailed as the saviors!
How can anyone be this fucking stupid? On right and left we've got people pushing ideologies that are completely and utterly opposed to our current system of governance. Both are totalitarian collectivist ideologies, born of the Continental philosophical tradition, and entirely anti-Liberty. Your fucking grandparents (or great-grandparents) fought and died against BOTH of these poisonous ideologies, what the fucking fuck are you dumb fucks doing? Do we have to have ANOTHER world war to prove, yet again, that both of these ideologies are entirely toxic and best left on the ash pile of history with all the rest of the "it sounded like a great idea at the time" social engineering failures?
So as long as I lie about why I am turning someone away, it's OK. But there still is a court-enforced "some are more equal than others" hierarchy of victimhood. You don't see a problem with that? Not all men are created equal, in the eyes of the law...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
It would still be murder, unless Mr. Hitler was actively threatening my life, and I acted in self defense.
Eat the rich.
So as long as I lie about why I am turning someone away, it's OK.
No. It's not OK. It's just that in the face of lying, the lawbreaking is difficult (but not impossible) to prove.
But there still is a court-enforced "some are more equal than others" hierarchy of victimhood.
That's your interpretation of the law. This is a point on which people can, and do, disagree.
As a ds reader, I have not seen any such claims about cloudfare supporting them. If it was true they could at least backed up the claim with a link...
So if I'm a Christian baker, and known as such by most of my clients and my neighbors and friends, I cannot "fire" a customer who's lifestyle I don't agree with, and find insullting?
Nope. The fact that you have a problem with gay people isn't an insult to you, now matter how much you whine about it. It's just like you're not allowed to claim that someone's skin colour insults you, either. I realize that you think it's some kind of monumental burden to actually treat people like they're people regardless of race, sex, or sexual orientation, but all you're doing is making a jack ass of yourself.
That if I feel it becomes known I made a wedding cake for a gay wedding it may damage the reputation of my company and myself, personally?
In this case, the law would actually protect you. Since you are legally required to sell wedding cakes to people regardless of whether they are gay or straight, your reputation can not be damaged by providing your regular services as required by law. Of course, I don't expect you to actually appreciate the fact these laws also protect bakers who do make cakes for gay weddings from pushy, bigoted, jackasses like you.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Isis are Muslim. Ya twat.
It's profiling based on actions in both cases, the only difference is that you can't easily opt out of the group in the first case.
Its that this is part of a massive Salemesque witchhunt hysteria. If they had a problem with the site why didn't they ban it before? Why didn't they take down those statues in the past century? This sort of rapid bandwagoning should frighten anyone. Also just because its legal for private entities to censor doesn't mean its moral.
The CEO woke up and decided he did not like them and kicked them off even if they did not break the ToS! http://gizmodo.com/cloudflare-ceo-on-terminating-service-to-neo-nazi-site-1797915295
And this has what, exactly, to do with a racist website? Do you think that racist would have just disappeared if not for some racist websites he likely never visited?
Not if Mr. Hitler, as an organ of the state (Fuhrer), so empowered, had the lawful right to deprive you of your life.
Let it go- you made a silly generalized argument which was plain wrong.
Sometimes unlawful things aren't wrong things.