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Cloudflare Stops Supporting Neo-Nazi Site The Daily Stormer (arstechnica.com)
Timothy B. Lee reports via Ars Technica: All week, the infamous hate site Daily Stormer has been battling to stay online in the face of a concerted social media campaign to shut it down. The site lost its "dailystormer.com" domain on Monday after first GoDaddy and then Google Domains blacklisted it from their domain registration services. The site re-appeared online on Wednesday morning at a new domain name, dailystormer.ru. But within hours, the site had gone offline again after it was dropped by Cloudflare, an intermediary that defends customers against denial-of-service attacks. Daily Stormer's Andrew Anglin reported Cloudflare's decision to drop the site in a post on the social media site Gab. His post was first spotted by journalist Matthew Sheffield.
Has Cloudflare released a statement on this? Because...this is at odds with their previous behavior, and I want to know if it's just a one-off 'if you beat us hard enough, we'll do things' or if they've actually changed their mind. Because I'd kind of like them to stop helping DDOS providers.
A thousand pounds of wood moving at 300 feet per minute. Don't get in the way.
Sadly we can chalk up another 'win' to groupthink, oppression of minorities, and censorship.
Really, isn't the best way to fight such complete stupidity to keep it in the open?
Isn't censoring such people just making them feel more targeted, and therefore strengthening their solidarity?
All this has done is give a bunch of disenfranchised idiots more reason to hate..
Shine a light on them, don't chase them away to skulk in the dark, where they will do what they will do without anyone watching.
in order to protect free speech. If we allow them any outlet to speak,then we are destroying free speech. It's so that we must be so intolerant in order to be tolerant.
LOL, I was a sysop before I was a webmaster, before I saw the big money moving in and financializing everything and I moved out... Now, I'm hiding somewhere near 45 deg. S. and eating lots of popcorn while I try to stay warm.
Dear Microlimp: I give you 2 valid product keys for win7 and you reject both of them. Piss off you wankers!!!
I suspect these companies have failed to adequately discuss their moves with their lawyers, by taking actions based on viewpoint, they potentially forfeit their ability to claim legal protections as common carriers.
Perhaps a certain country is fanning the flames.
In a way, as an opponent of censorship, I sort of like this - this will almost definitely drive more and better adoption of censorship-resistant media like Tor, I2P and Freenet.
Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
First they came for the racists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a racist.
Then they came for the sexists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a sexist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for me. And nobody was left to speak up for me.
Except the only thing that these people are actually doing is saying shit you don't like.
You clearly want license to abuse people you don't like and are too arrogant to see this ever being used against you.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Cloudflare was bullied by SJWs to censor Daily Stormer.
Look, the guys behind Daily Stormer are shitbags, but they have a fucking right to say and believe what they want. Whomever disagrees might want to consider moving somewhere less free, perhaps North Korea.
Then they came for the straight people. You have nothing to worry about.
Except the only thing that these people are actually doing is saying shit you don't like.
Are you sure it's the *only* thing? A gal I know got spit on by a stranger in a coffee shop in Denver today, because she was Jewish. Now maybe *that* guy isn't like these other guys with the same ideology, and as long as they're only talking about things, and it's just this guy who's working his way up through assault, there's a line there. But it's hard to believe anyone who self-identifies as a Nazi isn't hoping to have a chance to do at least that much.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Well I guess the answer to the old question
How do you shut down Hitler's web hosting is
Tie his Cat 5 cables in NAZIS.
I love the smell of bullshit in the morning.
The site lost its "dailystormer.com" domain on Monday ... The site re-appeared online on Wednesday morning at a new domain name, dailystormer.ru. But within hours, the site had gone offline again after it was dropped by Cloudflare, ...
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Wait, I thought SJWs were snowflakes? Now they're the bullies?
You seem to have some mental confusion, bro.
I know you're trolling, but the federal government has well defined protected classes, and being a Nazi sure as shit isn't among them.
I don't believe you either, but the thing is, while the Nazis hadn't come to power they didn't do all that much torturing people either. They merely advocated it. Even after they came to power it took them awhile to really work things up. Things don't happen instantaneously.
So. I'm troubled that this is happening, because with IP numbers so limited it's difficult to post on the new without the support of a webhost. This is a dubious method of social control, and should be resisted. But to defend the neo-nazis is a truly appalling choice...and not because they call themselves neo-nazis, but because they preach violent racial hate. *THEY* are the ones who called themselves Nazis. Others using the same name for them (with the addition of neo-) is just accepting the label they have claimed. I could more reasonably object to many people being called Christian, as the neo-nazis at least claim many of the same doctrines as the originals did.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
as odious as stormfront is, this AC supports their right to publish.
As do I. I also support the right of people to choose not to associate with them, which is what's happening here.
They can still publish, by the way. The only thing that will silence them is if they decide to be silent.
But a baker is not free to choose not to make a commissioned, custom cake for a marriage they don't support. Right? Companies are free to discriminate only for certain targets...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
These discussions are hilarious. The usual suspects are acting all outraged, while deliberately missing the point and doing everything they can to distract everyone's attention from it.
The main point is: there are many entities on the Internet that are pretending to be infrastructure. But infrastructure is not supposed to make moral judgements. Infrastructure is not even supposed to make legal judgements. That's what courts are for.
Here is something to think about. Should electrical companies start shutting down their service to businesses that are accused of illegal activities? Should phone companies monitor calls and disconnect people who use racist slurs? Should post offices refuse to deliver mail from and to "bad" people?
Unless I'm missing something, this website was operational for many years, promoted the exact same views and yet was fully supported by the companies that just dropped it. AFAIK, there was no recent court injunction or anything of that sort. The only thing that changed was the media landscape.
This isn't even a question of Free Speech. The question is much simpler. Do you want Internet "infrastructure" companies to make judgements about everything they handle and take stuff down based on current events and social media campaigns? And how about manipulating information that goes through their servers and routers?
The ones who are trying to "stop" those few thousand "storm front fags" on college campuses are the ones using brownshirt tactics.. The "SJW/social justice/Antifa" movement looks no different than the early Nazi party, it's just the target of their hate is different. Same tactics, same Machiavellian attitude towards themselves, same unwavering demand in 100% ideological adherence with zero dissent allowed. Enforced by violent means.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Except the only thing that these people are actually doing is saying shit you don't like.
And running people over with their cars. Tiny little detail you left out.
Did you choose to be straight? Were you born a Nazi?
Maybe legally protected class stuff applies.
Please stop using that word. I don't think you know what it means.
I was tortured in Auschwitz by real Nazis - ie. German SS soldiers. Nazis aren't 18 year old white males on your college campus you disagree with. Sorry, but that's true.
And if these 18 year old white males had you in a prison camp again, they would, again. Do you really need any more evidence of what they are other than their intentions?
It appears to be under California law. Go go Googlers.
Oh boy, there's a lot to unpack here. See this is the problem, you somehow think because they're bigoted assholes no one approves of somehow gives you a permit to be a bigoted asshole no one approves of. You're completely missing the point. You're just feeding the beast with all your own hatred.
You can dislike something without hating it. Hate is something we should not encourage from ANYONE. It never leads to anything good. Ever.
Like I can for example look at these groups and laugh at their idiocy that will never have anything but a very small following. All that adapt and evolution shit you vomited all over the place? That stuff takes a long time. Be patient young padawan. Eventually these people die. There's less and less of them every year.
But suppress them? Shame them openly? Make them feel like second class citizens? WOW, you just became them. Congratulations!
I wonder, would you have told the Jews to man up when they faced injustice against the Nazi regime?
Careful when cheering against acceptable targets without reflection. Some of the worst things in history occurred because someone else was an acceptable target.
Bakeries are also private companies. Why are they forced to serve all?
Bullshit.
I'm Jewish, living in the deep south, and nothing like what you describe has ever even come close to happening.
She's a liar, or unhinged, fabricating victimhood to support a false narrative.
And are you retarded too? Since when is Denver in the "deep south"?
Also, both of you are idiots for anecdotal stories: I once saw a white person help a black person, there are no racists!
I once saw a white person hang a black person, all whites are racists!
The fuck with all this false equivalency "I know someone who" or "my experience is". You all fucking deprived of oxygen just long enough to function as a vapid keyboard tester on the internet?
Surprise! You are not the only motherfuckers living here.
kind of a shame, I thought Cloudflare didn't take down anything without a warrant.
But a baker is not free to choose not to make a commissioned, custom cake for a marriage they don't support. Right?
If they are in a commercial business? And wish to remain on business? Nope. Just like you are not free to ignore a marriage you don't support. The law will tell you that you have no standing.
They can also shut you down if you don't follow the health core. They can even put you in prison for it.
Companies are free to discriminate only for certain targets...
Just like you are free to drive down the road. As long as yo have a license. And your car is registered. And you obey the laws. And you keep your car insured.
Also, you can shoot somebody and go to prison. Or you can shoot somebody and not go to prison.
It is almost like we can distinguish between different things, including human sexuality and a political agenda that advances a cause of oppression and bigotry. Just like we can tell the difference between rape and consensual sex. Or being drunk and being sober. Or being a lying troll and honest discourse.
Or a blowhard incompetent moron in the oval office and a pile of monkey turds.
Ha!
His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
Apples and oranges.
If you're running a business of public accommodation (that is, a business open to the public), then you cannot legally refuse service to a customer solely because that customer is in a protected class.
Federally, there are several protected classes. Gender, nation of origin, age, race, etc. Each state is free to _add_ to that list (and several have), but they can't take any of those classes off of the federal list.
So, a bakery cannot refuse service to someone solely because, for example, they are black, or from France, or old.
In the case of the bakery in Colorado, sexual orientation is a protected class. (Colorado added it to their list in 1990.)
Therefore, the bakery in question cannot legally discriminate against the same-sex couple wanting a cake solely for the reason for their sexual orientation.
If the bakery in question had been booked solid and been unable to produce the cake in time for the event, and told the customers that, there wouldn't have been a discrimination case.
If the bakery in question didn't even have the ability/facilities to produce wedding cakes (say they were a bakery that only did cupcakes and other pastries), and told the customers that, there wouldn't have been a discrimination case.
The bakery owner made the very dumb (legally) statement of telling the couple that he was denying them service based on their sexual orientation.
Now, why is it apples and oranges?
Because being a racist isn't a protected class. But wait, I hear you cry, they're all white racists! Isn't race a protected class?
Yes, it is.
But they're not being refused service because they're white. They're being refused service because they're racists. And Cloudflare can almost certainly find something in their ToS that will legally let them go "You violated this term. Buh-bye."
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
"The people fighting saying it's not censorship, it is, it is censorship with the justification of money and profit. 'If we host this we may lose other income'."
One type of example I can think of is athletes. They've been losing endorsement deals since I don't know how long because they did something "bad". OJ comes to mind.
His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
How did he know she was Jewish?
So Cloudflare won't stand up for speech, but they'll stand up for black hat criminal operations? WTF?
The problem with taking a stance is that now you have to justify why you take action sometimes and not other times. I totally get why Cloudflare would back down here and that's their call.
But if they're going to start policing content, then why the hell are they shutting down the routing of objectionable content, but not clearly criminal content? Along with TOR, they're the haven of choice for Black Hats and other criminal groups. Brian Krebs and others have been trying to get them to stop for years, to no avail. And the people they are protecting are causing actual (criminal) damages to other groups.
If Cloudflare wants to be a true neutral party, I can respect that. Similarly, if they want to have a say over the traffic they route, I can respect that as well. But if they're going to take the latter route, then I think they need to be held more accountable for all the scumbag criminals that they provide protection for.
Did you miss the part about "government" in the parent's post?
Gender is a protected class, as is race. You're talking about something which has legal protection, the exact opposite of the post what you are reply to.
What if the baker would sell a custom made wedding cake to a homosexual couple...for their friend's straight wedding?
But that same baker would refuse to sell a custom made wedding cake to a heterosexual couple...for their friend's gay wedding?
Refusing to bake a "White PPL Rule and Blacks Should Be Slaves" custom cake is just as reasonable as having a religious thing against homosexual marriage. That is to say, both are stupid refusals, but at a certain point, you gotta stop poking the bear.
> Tiny little detail you left out.
Probably because it's inaccurate to claim multiple people are "running people over with THEIR cars".
Sounds a lot like you're lumping people together to champion stigmatizing a group.
I'm sure that tactic has never gone badly.
Okay.
Up until today, I'd never heard of it happening to anyone, either. But there's a shit-storm of riled up people right now, and I wouldn't be surprised if a few other weird things don't happen before they settle down.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
(taking it up the ass isn't free speech)
Money is though, in the USA. I think it would be better if money was not free speech and a dick up the ass was. Let's see politicians collect their bribes then! >:D
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
The implication being what, that you're one wild weekend away from eating dicks yourself? Did you hear both sides of the issue before making this decision? I'm just sayin, girl, if you don't think of that characteristic as being pretty solidly fixed one way or another then that may be your own problem.
Come to the rainbow side, we have the best parties.
So - Cloudflare is NOT a commercial business? Or - since they are - they must provide their services to individuals with different political leanings (which is what the original intent of the First Amendment was - protection of poltical speech)?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Apples and oranges.
If you're running a business of public accommodation (that is, a business open to the public), then you cannot legally refuse service to a customer solely because that customer is in a protected class.
So, Cloudflare does NOT run a business of public accommodation, then? And political speech IS a protected class - it's called the First Amendment. Or are "some animals more equal than others"?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Now that Cloudflare has kicked the Nazi's to the curb, let's get busy with some other more offensive sites that really have no business having access to the net. Everyone gets to name one.
Westboro Baptist Church. They gotta go. That trash definitely doesn't deserve free speech, they condone killing American soldiers!
When will you Americans realise that *ideals* such as free speech are MORE important than their *legality*.
Laws do not define morality. For example, everything Adof Hilter did was COMPLETELY LEGAL in Germany at the time. COMPLETELY. Australia has a generation of aboriginal children that were COMPLETELY LEGALLY taken from their parents. Were they morally right? By my moral compass, no. But they were, objectively, legal - and in Aus, there was an Australian Surpreme Court case that affirmed the legality of the action (despite the moral abhorrence from a modern perspective).
So, please, don't cite your federal government's rules about protected classes or some amendment to the constitution of one country as if that defines concepts like "free speech" and "equality" - sure, that might be the legal definitions in one country, but they are not the moral definitions for all of humanity.
First they came for the Nazis? lol at your slippery slope fallacy.
Well, he asked, and she said yes. And then he spit on her. Now why he had a reason to ask, I don't know. But it was clearly and explicitly because of her faith.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
So those college kids proudly waving around the flag of the people who tortured you, chanting the slogans of the people who tortured you, and espousing the ideology of the people who tortured you, doesn't bother you? They're not "real Nazis" despite adopting all the symbols of the real Nazis and standing for what real Nazis stood for? Why, because this generation of them haven't tortured you yet?
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
Well, if you are too much of a coward to place your name behind your statements, you won't be missed. Well, that and the fact that you are almost certainly racist, sexist, and don't date outside of your immediate family.
when you and your friends all wear the same clothing, cary the asame racist flags and chant the same racist slogans, it is fairly reasonable to lump you all together.
pretty sure racist scumbags are not a protected class kid. Too bad for you, but that is how it is.
But please let me correct you : ONE of them ran over an innocent person , murdering her. Not the whole group. ONE hacker hacking a medical device and killing one person does not make all other responsible. ONE Christian killing a gay does not make all christian responsible. ONE Muslim killing anybody with an IED does not make all responsible. One Gamersgate guy sending death threat to Anita Sarkezan does not make the whole group bad. I am sorry but I CANNOT stand such generalization, whether they are done on my friend or group I belong to (athiest, scientist, Pathfinder/DnD roleplayer - go ahead laugh) or group I do not belong to (all others above).
What you MAY have wanted to tell is that the racist supremacist asshole did not condemn loudly enough the action of the scumbag murderer. BUT again, this is the same stupid reasonning which is used against other group so it makes me uncomfortable. Condemn people for the action they do , do not condemn whole group for the action other did. Yes even the neo nazi. But you can condemn them all of having stupid racist ideology and so forth, it is after all how they advertize themselves, but condemning the whole group for the murder of the woman is incorrect.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
don't confuse "political leanings or racism" which can change with education with someone who is born jewish, gay, non-white etc which cannot change - seems to be a common mistake to not be able to differentiate these 2 things.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Is being a Jew more of a matter of heredity or faith? I've never heard of one being just because of faith...
Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
I think you're confusing reality with whatever the hell is in your head.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
In the Netherlands police are trying (and failing) to disband Outlaw Motor Gangs based on the criminal activities of their members. Everybody knows there is a big correlation between OMG membership and crime, but the crimes are not orchestrated by the OMG. You cannot blame an entire organisation because one member committed a crime.
Volkert van der Graaf, who killed the dutch politician Pim Fortuyn 9 days before the 2002 elections, was a vegan and memeber of environmental pressure group Milieudefensie. Should we have pulled the plug on al vegan and milieudefensie websites?
Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh was killed by muslim Mohammed Bouyeri after being critical of Islam. Should we ban all islam websites? And close all salafist mosques?
I am not a fan of the far right or the far left. I am peacefully a bit left of the center. This witch-hunt is the end of free speech. If we give in to those social justice warriors you might as well start chipping the heads of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson from Mount Rushmore as they were slaveowners. Do you know who else destroys ancient art that does not conform to their ideology? Terrorist group IS.
First they came for the nazis, and I didn't give a shit, because they're fucking nazis, duh.
Eat the rich.
Murder can never be excused.
Eat the rich.
They should be shamed openly, laughed at and not given a moment's peace. By simply letting them be, you are complicit in the recent rise of the extreme right.
Eat the rich.
They do not have the right to run attack pieces full of personal harassment, and especially not when the person being attacked is a recent murder victim.
Eat the rich.
tbf this does appear to be employment law specifically which, while interesting, has no bearing on the current topic.
The target of SJW/antifa/whatever hate is literal nazis. You seem to ignore that little detail.
Eat the rich.
Jews are known haters of Palestinians
Real Nazi's have dress sense
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
So the self-styled libertarians are throwing hissy fits about private businesses choosing not to host their material, for the very valid reason, that it is harmful to their business.
The irony is massive, this is a textbook example of what they claim to to want, the market regulating itself. Cloudflare do not want the bad publicity of hosting these knuckleheads who can't provide the cash needed to make this a worthwhile business decision.
And before you blurt out 'censorship and what about free speech', this expectation only applies to the government you loathe so much.
Let the Nazi shits scuttle off to the dark web with the paedos, no one will stop them from posting their drivel, because nobody will have to read it.
Explain, then, how bakers must make cakes for whomever walks through the door - under threat of penalty by the Government. Is their speech somehow less protected, or is it because we've chosen to say some speech is not protected?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Why does that matter? Either speech is protected or it is not. Either freedom of association is protected or not. If you're going to protect it only for certain classes of people - then you are necessarily requiring discrimination and suspension of rights. You might as well just say "being a Nazi is illegal" and be done with it.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Pithy, but false. Murder is unlawful killing. If you assassinated Hitler, you'd have committed murder.
Care to try again?
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Anyone in their right mind is obviously bothered by these idiots, but it's not justification for people to stoop to their level and start to silence people trough censorship, intimidation and flat out violence the way the "anti"-fascist mob has done. When you descent to the same level as the KKK, Vanguard America and other bigoted movements and organizations any moral high ground you may have over them becomes meaningless. When you're no longer talking about who's a bunch of violent bigots and who's not, but rather who's the worst bunch of violent bigots, the actual fascists or the "anti"-fascists, you've allowed the actual fascists to win. They know full well what they are and don't expect society to see them in any other way, however other people descending to their despicable level is as close to a victory as they're going to get. Bigotry and violence is not a solution to bigotry and violence. All you're going to get by responding to these vile people by doing the same vile things is increase the amount of that kind of vile behavior in society and make these vile people seem less vile. Similarly to the war on terror being actual Islamic terrorists' best recruitment tool, the "anti"-fascists and their actions are the best recruitment tool the actual fascists have ever had.
"Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
Let's look at the comparison:
Case 1: Media site that supports white supremacy writes a tasteless article slandering a victim of a domestic terrorist attack.
Case 2: Guy wants to buy a cake for his wedding.
In one of these cases, you have a morally justified reason to abandon the business relationship. Guess which one?
Wait, what? You think if you're born Jewish or any other religion that you can't change that?
They came for the "Nazis" but anybody can be labeled a Nazi these days. During the last presidential election I recall pretty much anybody arguing against amnesty for illegal immigrants was called a Nazi.
This is incredible. Their CEO admits he knew he was wrong, but he kicked them off anyway, and double pinky swear he won't do it again.
What a clusterfuck.
Typical lies of the alt-right bubble-brains.
According to the interview with Matthew Prince (Cloudflare CEO), he felt that he had to boot the Daily Stormer from Cloudflare because the Daily Stormer started claiming that Cloudlfare was run by Neo-nazis, and used Cloudflare's refusal to boot them as evidence to support their claims. So they got booted because they made disparaging claims about Cloudflare and personally insulted Matthew Prince, the CEO, by claiming he was one of them.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Cloudflare was bullied by SJWs to censor Daily Stormer.
Look, the bully who drove the Daily Stormer off of Cloudflare is the Daily Stormer. They called the CEO a Neo-nazi and claimed he was "one-of-them". In response he said "Fuck no and fuck you assholes" and kicked them off his service.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
You are labouring and arguing under a misconception, the CEO of Cloudflare hates the Stormfront guys but he was willing to let them continue using the service until they personally insulted him and started touting Cloudflare's refusal to terminate their service as evidence that Cloudflare was a White Supremacist company. You are not only totally allowed to fire customers who insult you and damage the reputation of your company, you are ethically and morally required to do so.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
According to the interview with Matthew Prince (Cloudflare CEO), he felt that he had to boot the Daily Stormer from Cloudflare because the Daily Stormer started claiming that Cloudlfare was run by Neo-nazis, and used Cloudflare's refusal to boot them as evidence to support their claims.
At first glance, this sounded like bullshit. So I checked, and that is exactly what happened.
From https://blog.cloudflare.com/wh...
The tipping point for us making this decision was that the team behind Daily Stormer made the claim that we were secretly supporters of their ideology.
So, the operators of The Daily Stormer decided to run their mouths about the one company that tolerated their content. Not bright, unless they secretly craved a backwater existence on Tor.
---
According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
Explain, then, how bakers must make cakes for whomever walks through the door - under threat of penalty by the Government,
That's easy. They aren't, in fact, required to make cakes for anyone who walks through the door.
How many people, like myself, had never heard of The Daily Stormer before? Now I can't not hear about them as service provider after service provider drops them because of their content. If they had simply left them alone, I would still be blissfully ignorant of their website.
The same logic applies to the anti-protestors at Charlottesville. What could have been a quick blurb about a rally that nobody cared about turned into an absolute shitstorm.
You're making this up. That's so unrealistic.
Would you like to see something else they shut down last year?
They even gave themselves an award for using the weight of the mass media against us.
http://shortyawards.com/1st-so...
However, even though they shut us down, we managed to survive thanks to technologies like ZeroNet and IPFS.
You can download it here: https://tiny.cc/echoes
I'm talking about the actual, self-avowed, proud nazis, not some random people some people decided to label as "nazis".
Eat the rich.
That would have happened during a time of war, against an enemy combatant. I would not be a murderer, since I would by definition be acting as a proxy for my country, which would then be responsible for my actions during a time of war.
Eat the rich.
Ahh, you support "stop and frisk" then.
Yes, it's a religion. You can convert to it, and you can convert away from it.
The matrilineal tradition goes back a long way as a way of assigning default membership, but how many people aren't raised in the religions of their mothers? And of course there are cultural ties as well, which is another reason I think some people mix it up with ethnicity, but it really isn't, any more than it would make sense to call the French a race, or Buddhists a race.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Why the actual FUCK would I NOT want to 'stigmatize' Neo-Nazis? They're assholes, plain and simple. Are you a neo-nazi? You're sure sounding like one, sticking up for them like this.
By that standard, Comcast should sever connections with its entire customer base.
Alright, pretend you're a German citizen.
Care to try again?
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
It's one thing to expect Cloudfare to professionally provide a service, but it's a whole other thing for a customer of Cloudfare to try to put bullshit into their mouths. Cloudfare was totally justified in "firing" their customer over that. I would expect anyone I do business with, to cut me off if started talking about them in that way.
Like, if I start telling people "My wireless ISP, T-Mobile, fully endorses what I say" then I'd expect T-Mobile to be very fucking annoyed, should it rise to their attention. OTOH if I said "T-Mobile has remaining reliable even when I used them for things they don't like" then that would really be me endorsing them, rather than shitting on them like the Nazis did.
tl;dnr: don't try to put your words in someone else's mouth. That's how you piss people off, even professionals. Don't. To this ancient advice we can now append the 2017 addendum, "That's what Nazis do!"
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
No, you're just pushing stereotype or prejudice. There is of course a definite conflict in the Middle East between Israelis and Palestinians, and that has even spilled over along religious lines, but lump the whole religion in as "known haters" is patently ridiculous.
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This. I can't help but notice that the repulsive nature of Nazism seems to create a reality distortion field that causes folks to inflate how big of a problem this group of people is. And it seems like many people buy into this distorted view of the "threat" that they pose.
While I wouldn't miss the presence of Nazis if they disappeared, we (are supposed to) have equal protection under the law (IOW, civilized society). If a Nazi does something bad (murder, assault, etc.) then that Nazi should be brought to justice accordingly. Otherwise, they're just loudmouths saying stuff to piss people off.
Well, it could be that Russia has discovered the principles of free speech. It could also be that they just like things that look really destructive to American society. Which is more likely?
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Are you shitting me? Shit, there's practically a uniform in some Jewish communities.
Long dark skirts, high necked tops, minimal make-up and long dark hair; when it's 90% of the woman walking down the street past a synagogue and the Manchester Jewish Museum it's probably not the local skater grrls.
Faith is a Christian invention. This isn't really what you're asking, but I think it's interesting: the idea that beliefs are important in a religious context started with Christianity. Specifically with Saint Paul's interpretation of a certain passage in the Book of Job. For religions older than Christianity, like Judaism, your beliefs don't mean squat, it's only your actions which matter.
So all of those weird rules that orthodox Jews follow, the ones which seem so silly - the Jews who are doing them think they're silly too. By doing them anyway, despite being silly, they are demonstrating their dedication to God. Taking God's rules to a ridiculous extreme - that's deliberate. It shows greater dedication to do something ridiculous than to do something obvious.
Growing up in a predominately Christian country, I didn't get that for a long time. I had always thought of religion as being about beliefs, but recognizing that for many religions that's not true clarified a lot of things for me. How could the Egyptians, for example, worship an evil god? Answer: "Worship" was really about asking for favors or appeasement. Priests of Set were performing a public service.
Anyway, the answer to your question is a little vague: ostensibly, all Jews are descended from Abraham. So it's hereditary. But many Jewish sects have adopted conversion practices. So it's not strictly about heredity, but it's not about faith either.
Except the only thing that these people are actually doing is saying shit you don't like.
You clearly want license to abuse people you don't like and are too arrogant to see this ever being used against you.
You mean the people protesting against the extreme right? Then you're dead wrong. If you're talking about the other side, the one that beats people for saying things they don't like, the people driving cars into people for saying things they don't like... then you're correct. Its the far-right that requires everyone else to silently agree with them and gets violent when someone opposes them.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
So - Cloudflare is NOT a commercial business? Or - since they are - they must provide their services to individuals with different political leanings (which is what the original intent of the First Amendment was - protection of poltical speech)?
Since when have corporations been responsible for enforcing civil rights?
You seem to have that completely backwards.
Cloud-flare is a commercial business, they have the right to pick and chose their clients. This means distancing themselves from clients that could bring their business into ill repute.
Being a Nazi is not a protected class, when I fill out an ESTA to travel to the united states, I was expressly asked if I was or had any affiliation to any Nazi organisation. Same with several terrorist organisations. I'm absolutely certain you would not defend Al Quaeda in the same way you're defending white supremacists... Hell you wouldn't defend the (now defunct) Black Panthers, why do white people get a free pass. I denouce Al Quaeda as a hateful organisation and do not blame any business for not wanting to be in any way associated with them, so why should I give white supremacists a free pass?
The law in no way says that private businesses have to provide a platform for political speech. It in no way says it has to provide it for hateful speech. In fact a private business is in no way obligated to provide anyone with a platform. Free speech means the government cant arrest you for crisitising it. It does not mean you can say anything you like to anyone, nor does it mean everyone else has to stay silent and agree with you.
You've got a fundamental misunderstanding of what free speech is.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
I don't think you understand the idea of "protected class", speech is not part of it people are. It's the reason states were able to get away with gerrymandering under the guise of drawing lines in regards to Dem/Rep and not black/white which would have been illegal.
horror vacui
The Court disagrees so far...
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I'm not in any trouble since I don't support the extremists on either end. But it's curious how profiling is wrong when used against one group, but it's just fine if it's used against another group. This whole topic has double-standard overload.
So - could Christian baker refuse to make a cake for a gay wedding, on the grounds that it would sully their reputation with their main constiuency (fundamentalist Christians)? Or is that "diferent" because we have protected classes - meaning, all animals are equal but some are more equal than others?
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No, I don't. SJW/antifa/whatever simply use those Nazi tactics to enforce their own will on others. Same tactics, different targets. But seems many are perfectly fine with the tactics as long as they "hate" the target. I wonder what happens when that target changes to, say, "wealthy" techies who "have it made" and thus must be bashed/slashed/attacked because they are now the target of such hate...
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Where is "protected class" covered in the Constitution? I see where freedom of speech and freedom of association are explicitly called out, but I don't see this "protected class" nonsense where some are More Equal than others... Why is hating a person who is a racial minority so much worse than hating someone who is rich or someone who is fat or someone who dresses like a slob or wears another team's jersey?
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Did you read the court decision? The ACLU page linked to it. It supports my assertion. The court did not rule that bakeries, or anybody, had to server everyone who walked in the door.
The court ruled that you can't turn people away for being a member of a protected class. So you can't refuse to serve people because they're a particular gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc.
You can certainly turn them away for anything that's not on the short list, including "I just didn't like them."
Profiling on a trait someone is born with is wrong, because it doesn't say anything about them as a person.
Profiling based on a person's self-proclaimed interests and intentions is nothing at all like that. It is perfectly valid to judge someone based on what they say and do.
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I'm going to assume that you're seriously asking this.
The answer is that the the protected classes are groups of people who had been widely singled out to be deprived of the rights that everyone else shares. The courts determined that the discrimination was severe enough as to amount to a widespread violation of the equal protection clause of the Constitution.
Those groups were selected for special protection because there was no other effective way to correct the problem. The argument is that because of the special discrimination they suffer, the special protection does not give them more rights than everyone else, it brings them to parity with everyone else.
The hope is that the day will come when these groups are no longer singled out, and their special status will no longer be required.
I'm quite sure that you disagree with this argument, but that's what it is, and why the courts feel that it is Constitutionally required.
Oh, I know what they are, the question was somewhat rhetorical, but thank you for writing it out because others might not understand! And hopefully people will see that the system is INHERENTLY discriminatory, and enforced as such, and that the now-capricious application of discriminatory laws and regulations can easily swing to any group as Government dictates. We've codified, over the last 50 years, fascism and discrimination into law. "Some Animals are More Equal than Others" is the rule - and who is considered that "Animal" can and will change. Fascism has been here, it's just the latest activists acting like brownshirt thugs because they currently get to be the "Animal"...
One of the biggest discriminators is the Federal Government itself. It will not work or hire to do anything with anyone without knowing racial and gender information. A color blind society will not exist as long as the Federal Government insists on breaking people down racial divides and insists on enforcing racial-based laws. I believe that's on purpose, as it's a great way to keep one side satiated and the other side cowed - divided, so they cannot realize the real source of division.
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That's a real nice distinction you've got there. Now if only everyone else made it.
The entire reason anyone here (outside of neo-Nazi's and their sympathizers) brings up the point that it's bad to make these "Nazi's must die" blanket statements is because of the well established practice of calling anyone who disagrees with your ideology a Nazi.
We're in the brave new age of social media hate mobs. Calling someone a Nazi without evidence is enough to trigger a cascade of abuse from the slacktivists on Twitter. Surely you can see why "not some random people some people decided to label as 'nazis'" isn't part of the equation, or is someone going to be out there at the protests making sure the brave Nazi-punchers of Antifa are only punching real Nazis (tm)?
What's that? They think everyone right of Lenin is a "fash" and thus legitimate targets of their political violence? What a fucking shock and surprise! I'm flabbergasted, I literally can't even right now!
Finally, it should be the fucking police out there "bashing the fash" whenever they do anything even remotely illegal, not a bunch of teenagers and twenty-somethings in all black shouting Communist slogans. Instead, the police are told to stand down and let the sparks fly. The ensuing violence will be laid at the feet of the evildoers and the brave Nazi-punching communists will be hailed as the saviors!
How can anyone be this fucking stupid? On right and left we've got people pushing ideologies that are completely and utterly opposed to our current system of governance. Both are totalitarian collectivist ideologies, born of the Continental philosophical tradition, and entirely anti-Liberty. Your fucking grandparents (or great-grandparents) fought and died against BOTH of these poisonous ideologies, what the fucking fuck are you dumb fucks doing? Do we have to have ANOTHER world war to prove, yet again, that both of these ideologies are entirely toxic and best left on the ash pile of history with all the rest of the "it sounded like a great idea at the time" social engineering failures?
So as long as I lie about why I am turning someone away, it's OK. But there still is a court-enforced "some are more equal than others" hierarchy of victimhood. You don't see a problem with that? Not all men are created equal, in the eyes of the law...
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It would still be murder, unless Mr. Hitler was actively threatening my life, and I acted in self defense.
Eat the rich.
So as long as I lie about why I am turning someone away, it's OK.
No. It's not OK. It's just that in the face of lying, the lawbreaking is difficult (but not impossible) to prove.
But there still is a court-enforced "some are more equal than others" hierarchy of victimhood.
That's your interpretation of the law. This is a point on which people can, and do, disagree.
So if I'm a Christian baker, and known as such by most of my clients and my neighbors and friends, I cannot "fire" a customer who's lifestyle I don't agree with, and find insullting?
Nope. The fact that you have a problem with gay people isn't an insult to you, now matter how much you whine about it. It's just like you're not allowed to claim that someone's skin colour insults you, either. I realize that you think it's some kind of monumental burden to actually treat people like they're people regardless of race, sex, or sexual orientation, but all you're doing is making a jack ass of yourself.
That if I feel it becomes known I made a wedding cake for a gay wedding it may damage the reputation of my company and myself, personally?
In this case, the law would actually protect you. Since you are legally required to sell wedding cakes to people regardless of whether they are gay or straight, your reputation can not be damaged by providing your regular services as required by law. Of course, I don't expect you to actually appreciate the fact these laws also protect bakers who do make cakes for gay weddings from pushy, bigoted, jackasses like you.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
It's profiling based on actions in both cases, the only difference is that you can't easily opt out of the group in the first case.
Its that this is part of a massive Salemesque witchhunt hysteria. If they had a problem with the site why didn't they ban it before? Why didn't they take down those statues in the past century? This sort of rapid bandwagoning should frighten anyone. Also just because its legal for private entities to censor doesn't mean its moral.
And this has what, exactly, to do with a racist website? Do you think that racist would have just disappeared if not for some racist websites he likely never visited?
Not if Mr. Hitler, as an organ of the state (Fuhrer), so empowered, had the lawful right to deprive you of your life.
Let it go- you made a silly generalized argument which was plain wrong.
Sometimes unlawful things aren't wrong things.