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Apple Explains Face ID On-stage Failure (bbc.com)

Apple has explained why its new facial recognition feature failed to unlock a handset at an on-stage demo (see around the 1:35:58 mark here) at the iPhone X's launch on Tuesday. From a report: The company blamed the Face ID glitch on a lockout mechanism triggered by staff members moving the device ahead of its unveil. Apple's software chief dealt with the hiccup by moving on to a back-up device, which worked as intended. But the hitch was widely reported. "People were handling the device for [the] stage demo ahead of time and didn't realise Face ID was trying to authenticate their face," an unnamed company representative is quoted as saying by Yahoo's David Pogue. "After failing a number of times, because they weren't Craig [Federighi], the iPhone did what it was designed to do, which was to require his passcode."

106 of 189 comments (clear)

  1. and it didn't happen during rehearsal? by jm007 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    they did rehearse this, no?

    1. Re:and it didn't happen during rehearsal? by courteaudotbiz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I am pretty sure Bill Gates did a rehearsal before connecting a scanner to his W98 PC on the stage when he got a BSOD... Shit happens, and it sometimes happens with the worst timing possible.

    2. Re:and it didn't happen during rehearsal? by jm007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      here's another truth to consider.... companies won't tell the truth if it makes them look bad.... they spin it so it's somehow okay or at least insignificant; in this particular context of a 'big release event,' how much pressure do you think there is regarding truth vs perception?

    3. Re:and it didn't happen during rehearsal? by courteaudotbiz · · Score: 1

      I am not saying they said the truth. And it probably is a bug that needs to be corrected in the code. There is so much pressure to release products on time that you need to bug-fix soon after release. In this case, who knows what really happened. Maybe they do not even know it yet. But they had to come up with some story for PR purpose. Then you will soon get an update that deals with "too sensitive lockout mechanism"...

    4. Re:and it didn't happen during rehearsal? by jm007 · · Score: 1

      so based on their history of explaining away iPhone/iOS/Apple issues of any nature (see JoeyRox post further down) and using Occam's Razor as a guide, what should a person w/out inside knowledge think? remember this is a $600 device that will be the center of most people's techno-lives and thus a huge personal vulnerability -- should it be ill-designed; does Apple have your best interests at heart or theirs?

      this isn't about being open-minded and an optimist, real life decisions require looking at the darker side of life, not just the pleasantries; business reality is about money, not good intentions

    5. Re:and it didn't happen during rehearsal? by Strider- · · Score: 4, Funny

      As a former Sales Engineer, I always hated doing live demos in front of (potential) customers. Yeah, it's like Milli Vanilli lip syncing, but I would always always push for doing canned demos, or ones that depended on my skill. When something has a 0.1% surprise rate, that means it will happen in a demo 100% of the time.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    6. Re: and it didn't happen during rehearsal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Salesmen are not engineers.

    7. Re:and it didn't happen during rehearsal? by OhSoLaMeow · · Score: 1

      We used to have a saying: "Do a demo, lose a prospect."

      --
      They can take my LifeAlert pendant when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
    8. Re:and it didn't happen during rehearsal? by Cito · · Score: 1

      CNN also reported it doesn't detect black faces

    9. Re: and it didn't happen during rehearsal? by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      Which it is because the power saving features are better.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    10. Re:and it didn't happen during rehearsal? by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      You've never done a software demo, have you.

      You can rehearse as much as you like, something can always go wrong.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    11. Re:and it didn't happen during rehearsal? by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      I am not saying they said the truth. And it probably is a bug that needs to be corrected in the code. There is so much pressure to release products on time that you need to bug-fix soon after release. In this case, who knows what really happened. Maybe they do not even know it yet. But they had to come up with some story for PR purpose.

      Yeah, it's called saving face. The only problem is that they saved face afterwards instead of saving everyone's face ahead of time.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  2. Pass by geekoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A device the police can unlock by just showing it to you? pass.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:Pass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Could be just me, but I never had requirement for the phone to be police-proof. Family-proof - yes, but never had bad experience with police, neither did I consider it as a serious factor when comparing devices.

    2. Re:Pass by RobinH · · Score: 1

      Apparently it won't unlock if your eyes are closed.

      --
      "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
    3. Re:Pass by courteaudotbiz · · Score: 1

      Police and border agents. So no more need to force you to unlock, they just grab the phone, show it to you and search it without warrant. Nice.

    4. Re:Pass by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Do they call this feature the "Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal" feature? I hope they do. But more to the point, standing there with you eyes closed all day isn't exactly going to work out.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    5. Re:Pass by HumanWiki · · Score: 1, Interesting

      A device the police can unlock by just showing it to you? pass.

      Face unlock isn't new, not even to Apple.

      People used to show a picture of someone to the 1st gen of this tech and it unlocked easily.

      I actually watched someone unlock an iDevice with another iDevice by showing it their employee roster picture from our company website..

      (you can turn Facial unlock off.. just like with the ubiquitous thumbprint unlock)

    6. Re: Pass by x0ra · · Score: 4, Insightful

      hardly enforceable when a SWAT team broke into your home at 4am with stun grenades...

    7. Re:Pass by Karlt1 · · Score: 2

      The police can also force you to put your fingerprint on the phone or has happen in the U.K., Judy tackle you while you're using your phone (https://9to5mac.com/2016/12/05/uk-police-have-a-new-tactic-for-circumventing-strong-iphone-encryption-steal-the-unlocked-phone-out-of-the-criminals-hand/).

      There is nothing that Apple can do to prevent rubber-hose decryption.

    8. Re:Pass by x0ra · · Score: 1

      I hear Lubyanka's interrogators had no problem keeping prisoners' eyes open... Wasn't a problem then, isn't a problem now.

    9. Re:Pass by Karlt1 · · Score: 2

      I actually watched someone unlock an iDevice with another iDevice by showing it their employee roster picture from our company website..

      How? This is the first "iDevice" that has had facial unlock?

    10. Re:Pass by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Could be just me, but I never had requirement for the phone to be police-proof.

      But some people do need protection from the police. If you don't speak up for their rights, there will be no one left to speak up when the police come for you.

      You can feel complacent about your freedom only because other people have fought and sacrificed for you.

    11. Re: Pass by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The dog was wagging its tail and lying on the rug, still shot.

    12. Re:Pass by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 2

      They say you can change your hair, grow a beard, etc and it still work. I don't see the big deal, the last Lumia phone has iris recognition and opened that way. An older Samsung phone my buddy had could open with facial recognition, it also worked when I held my phone to his with a picture of his face on my screen, so not super secure.

    13. Re:Pass by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 1

      My buddy had a Samsung that could do it. Like a Note 4 or something.

    14. Re:Pass by ghoul · · Score: 1

      Will it open if your eyes are held open with Tape?

      Biometrics as identifiers are flawed because a password can be changed but a body part cant. if your Face ID pattern gets stolen or hacked thats it you can never use any devices which unlock with faceID forever. FOREVER.

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    15. Re:Pass by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      What if you're disguised for some special occasion or just wearing makeup?

      Then the facial recognition doesn't work, and you type your passcode instead.

    16. Re:Pass by ghoul · · Score: 1

      They have to balance. As the stage was full of white males. Note how while 50% of the on ground workforce at Apple is Indians the executives have no Indian representation. Contrast this with Google and Microsoft which reflect the makeup of their companies more realistically in the CXO levels.

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    17. Re:Pass by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      If other people need protection from the police, they'll be buying something else.

      Except that many people don't realize they need protection until they are already in handcuffs. Then it is too late.

      Do you really believe that "Only guilty people get arrested"?

    18. Re: Pass by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Is that where you do three quick blinks, three slow blinks, and three quick blinks again?

    19. Re:Pass by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Hit the power button 5 times to disable fingerprint unlock.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    20. Re:Pass by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      "Face unlock isn't new, not even to Apple."

      Yeah...it is one of those features you say "hey! my phone can do this..." and you never use it again. What the hell is wrong with Apple?

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    21. Re:Pass by sinij · · Score: 2

      Little do they know, I intend to show my ass to this facial recognition tech.

    22. Re:Pass by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      Yep, I wonder how easy this will be to hack by opening the phone owner's Facebook profile picture and showing it to the camera...

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    23. Re:Pass by sootman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      1. Your eyes have to be open for this to work. If a cop grabs your phone, close your eyes. If they try to get you to unlock it, open one eye, then the other, until it fails. If a cop grabs your phone, the first thing he'll do is look at it, thus triggering failure #1. It only takes 2 failures to trigger the passcode requirement. https://www.macrumors.com/2017...

      2. As we are discussing right here in this very story, if it fails to unlock by face, IT THEN ASKS FOR A PASSCODE. And it WON'T OPEN AGAIN UNTIL THAT PASSCODE IS ENTERED. So you are just as secure as if you were already a passcode-only person.

      This is actually MORE secure than the current thumbprint system, which can ABSOLUTELY be opened if you are restrained. There's no way to close your thumbprint when you're in handcuffs. As has been discussed elsewhere, you can not (in the U.S., generally, blah blah blah) be compelled to give your password but you can be compelled to put your thumb on a device.

      3. Also, there's this: https://www.theverge.com/2017/...

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    24. Re:Pass by RobinH · · Score: 2

      I'm pretty sure anyone who cared (like myself) would just turn off facial ID unlock and use a pass code.

      --
      "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
    25. Re:Pass by gfilion · · Score: 2

      Apparently it does face recognition in 3D, so a simple picture would not work.

    26. Re:Pass by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Face unlock isn't new, not even to Apple.

      People used to show a picture of someone to the 1st gen of this tech and it unlocked easily.

      I actually watched someone unlock an iDevice with another iDevice by showing it their employee roster picture from our company website..

      (you can turn Facial unlock off.. just like with the ubiquitous thumbprint unlock)

      Which is impossible, since the only iDevices capable fo facial unlocking haven't been released yet.

      Sure, you could jailbreak it, but then that's a stupid unlock since you're limited to the camera and vulnerable. The iPhone X facial unlock requires the depth sensor because it's doing a 3D capture, not a 2D capture, rendering the photo trick unusable. (They claim masks don't work too, but I'm not too sure about it).

      Second, you can turn on "attention" mode - the phone won't unlock if merely pointed at your face, but you have to actually have to be giving attention to your phone for it to unlock, so a cop can't point it at you to unlock it.

      Finally, remember there's also the 5 power button click disable option that turns off both fingerprint and facial recognition. You should be able to click the power button a sufficient number of times in under a second as you reach into your pocket to retrieve the phone.

      Pretty much the only way for cops to get at your data would be for you to unlock your phone and the cop tackles you to the ground, or they swipe it from you as you're using it.

    27. Re:Pass by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Could be just me, but I never had requirement for the phone to be police-proof. Family-proof - yes, but never had bad experience with police, neither did I consider it as a serious factor when comparing devices.

      I used to think this way, but there have simply been too many cases I've seen where police went far outside their legal authority when dealing with individuals who I know were not doing anything wrong - applying fear and intimidation against law-abiding citizens. Then, on top of that, I've seen police do bad (and possibly dangerous) things when dealing with people who actually were doing something wrong - like walking up from behind a stopped motorcyclist with a drawn gun, carefully held in a way so other people couldn't readily see it, when the reason for approaching said motorcyclist was to lecture him about weaving in and out of traffic - in this case, the interaction got recorded by the motorcyclist's helmet cam.

      Cops are like other people - there are good ones and bad ones. The problem is, cops have a lot of power. The good ones see that as "with great power comes great responsibility", while the bad ones see it as something to be abused to their own advantage.

      I will not open my phone for a police officer if asked, even though I know there's nothing untoward on my phone. If they want me to open my phone for them, they'll need to follow proper procedures and obtain a warrant - that's the way the legal system is supposed to work.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    28. Re:Pass by shilly · · Score: 1

      Gosh, if only Apple had anticipated that by not storing your biometric but instead storing a cryptographic hash of some datapoints derived from a mathematical model that won't be the same each time FaceID is re-scanned, just like TouchID.

    29. Re:Pass by ghoul · · Score: 1

      30000 points on your face scanned to create a map which is then hashed. If you get hacked and the 30000 point map is misappropriated than what? The attacker can has it on demand.

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    30. Re:Pass by Wraithlyn · · Score: 1

      Maybe take 10 seconds to verify your assumptions before spewing ignorance? Just a thought.

      http://gizmodo.com/how-apples-...

      --
      "Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
    31. Re:Pass by Kernel+Kurtz · · Score: 1

      A device the police can unlock by just showing it to you? pass.

      Most insightful post in a while.

      That said, maybe they can kick it up a notch. Unlock when you are smiling, and disk wipe when you are not.

    32. Re:Pass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Then simply don't enable FaceID. You don't use TouchID or whatever other non-passcode security scheme your phone provides, right? You know that none of these features are required to use your phone and you can just set it to accept only a pin, right?

      I love how everyone is bitching about this. If it's a problem for you, then DON'T USE IT. Why is this such a hard fucking concept to grasp? When did everyone become so stupid?

    33. Re: Pass by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Lots of innocent people get arrested. Only guilty people have incriminating evidence on their phone, by definition.

      Go watch this video: Don't talk to the Police. He gives several real world examples of how innocent people went to prison for telling the truth.

    34. Re:Pass by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      It used regular image recognition that could be fooled by a picture and didn't take a 3D image, it didn't work in the dark, it wouldn't work with glasses, hats, etc.

      If I remember correctly, it stored the image unprotected and was accessible by any app instead of being stored correctly.

      The Samsung implementation was nowhere near as advanced.

    35. Re:Pass by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      That doesn't stop "rubber hose decryption" -- beating you until you unlock the password. Do you think that all police are so above board they wouldn't do that ?

    36. Re:Pass by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      american police are NOT your friends. they can end your life and if they have a bad day, oh boy, it will be your worst day.

      I never talk to cops, I avoid them. and I'm a middle class white guy who never had trouble with the law.

      but I read about what its like 'out there' and I'm scared shitless of those thugs in blue.

      yes, give me phones that are cop-resistant. those guys have ZERO reason to invade your privacy like that, but being thugs who like to get their jollies, they often do abusive things to citizens.

      you are quite ignorant to trust cops, these days. maybe you'll learn the hard way.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    37. Re:Pass by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      cops have usb devices (israel has made quite a few, which I have real issues with, but that's for another thread) that scan ALL the known major phone types and extract data.

      I have a hard time believing that apple phones don't have a hidden backdoor that the israelis have found and sold to the LEOs.

      its the best kept secret. and likely, apple is lying about how secure their systems are. they want us to think that, but I'm pretty sure the LEOs and their little usb stealie device have access to ALL major phone types.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    38. Re:Pass by ghoul · · Score: 1

      A passcode can be changed. What do you do with a face map? Plastic Surgery?

      --
      **Life is too short to be serious**
    39. Re:Pass by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      But there's an open question of whether some things need to be police proof, or everything needs to be police proof.

    40. Re:Pass by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      There are degrees of protection. This particular attack isn't too bad, because you know that the police are inspecting your phone and if you live in a country with the rule of law then this must follow an recorded evidence chain (and, in fact, a plod showing you the phone to unlock it would probably violate that chain and give you grounds for a mistrial). It's much worse when the police can plug a USB dongle into your phone and dump all of your data for later analysis, because they don't need to notify you, they can just go fishing at any point where they have brief access to the phone and later appear with a warrant and follow procedure claiming an anonymous tipoff. This was the state of all Android phones until fairly recently.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    41. Re:Pass by houghi · · Score: 1

      Well, now they know.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    42. Re:Pass by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      As the stage was full of white males. Note how while 50% of the on ground workforce at Apple is Indians the executives have no Indian representation.

      First, that's not true. It's nowhere near half. The latest figures from any reputable source were one third, and even that is dubious, because Apple doesn't break down its diversity numbers based on country of origin, which means there's a lot of guessing involved in that number.

      But even if it were true, it would only be true because Apple has a huge IT organization in India. Not software; not hardware; IT. You can safely assume that they are not going to fly IT people over from India for a keynote even if somehow there were a big IT component to that keynote, much less a keynote that's mostly about iPhone hardware and software. The people at the keynote are likely a fairly accurate sampling of the diversity of Apple's Cupertino workforce if you ignore the non-technical staff.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    43. Re:Pass by shilly · · Score: 1

      It isn't a face map. You've fundamentally misunderstood how this works.

  3. Feature without a requirement by Sherman+Peabody · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No one asked for this feature, but Apple wants to give it to us anyway. They have really lost touch with their user base, IMHO, and stray further and further afield. I think it may be time for another visionary but I doubt that Apple's culture will promote one as the old guard holds on for dear life.

    1. Re:Feature without a requirement by geekoid · · Score: 2

      A lot of people want this feature. It's a cool feature. I suspect many don't realize the security issue.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Feature without a requirement by HumanWiki · · Score: 1

      No one asked for this feature, but Apple wants to give it to us anyway. They have really lost touch with their user base, IMHO, and stray further and further afield. I think it may be time for another visionary but I doubt that Apple's culture will promote one as the old guard holds on for dear life.

      It's not the 1st time they've had facial unlock... It goes back years..

      https://9to5mac.com/2011/05/18...

      This is just a newer type of face recog.

    3. Re:Feature without a requirement by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      "They" have never had this feature. This wasn't an Apple feature. It was a third party feature that worked only on jail broken devices.

    4. Re:Feature without a requirement by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      "A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them." -- Steve Jobs

      (OTOH it's unclear whether a Jobs-less Apple still has the ability to predict what people will want after having been shown it. Time will tell)

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    5. Re:Feature without a requirement by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      No one asked for this feature, but Apple wants to give it to us anyway.

      That is what Apple has always done. If they wait till customers are asking for a feature, then that feature is so obvious that everyone will be doing it. So they stay out in front by anticipating needs.

      Since this has made them the world's most valuable company, it is silly to say it is not a smart strategy.

    6. Re:Feature without a requirement by green1 · · Score: 1

      If that were really true, you'd think that just occasionally Apple might do something that everyone else hasn't already done....

      In the past decade or so Apple has never been good at coming up with new inventive features that their competitors don't have. They've only been good at marketing those same features to people several years later.

      Apple is the world's most valuable company because they are excellent at marketing. Nothing else.

    7. Re:Feature without a requirement by blindseer · · Score: 2

      No one asked for this feature, but Apple wants to give it to us anyway.

      Then it will show up in device sales and user surveys. Voice activated login was a thing for a while, going WAY back in time. Maybe that's still a thing, I just don't know of anyone that uses it. If it's broken in some way, and/or people just don't like it, then it will quietly go away. If it works and people like it then that will also show in sales and surveys.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    8. Re:Feature without a requirement by Altus · · Score: 2

      no more so than thumbprints are really but people are far more likely to lock their phone if they can use a quick biometric test rather than typing in a passcode. Its certainly a lot more secure than unlocked. Lots of people just didn't lock their phone before biometrics were an option

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    9. Re:Feature without a requirement by Kohath · · Score: 1

      No one asked for this feature

      Wrong. Lots of people want a secure way to quickly and easily unlock their phone without typing in a code. Most phone users want this.

      The others want to enter a code every time or they don't lock their phone. The phones support all 3 choices. What are you complaining about?

    10. Re:Feature without a requirement by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      A lot of people want this feature.

      I'd debate that.

      A lot of people want a way to unlock their phone quickly and conveniently without using a passcode like 5555 or 1234. Touch ID did a very good job. However, there wasn't a way to have only a screen on the front and still use Touch ID. So it's back to the drawing board. This is what Apple came up with.

      I don't think there are a lot of people who specifically want facial-recognition for unlocking their phones. They just want a more convenient way to quickly unlock their phone.

    11. Re:Feature without a requirement by houghi · · Score: 1

      I have no issue with them implementing it. It is like gay marriage: I never asked for it. I have no use for it, but if others want to, let them.
      I do not even have use for fingerprinting to open the device.

      It is not as if they removed something. They added something that you can ignore, just like I ignore many programs (apps for you youngsters) on my phone.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    12. Re:Feature without a requirement by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      However, there wasn't a way to have only a screen on the front and still use Touch ID.

      And it's impossible to put a fingerprint scanner on one edge of the machine, symmetrically so it's equally inconvenient for left- and right- handers?

      There's a distinct smell of dead rodent over this. Over and above the dead rodent sell that comes as standard with Apple products.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  4. From the same company who lies repeatedly by JoeyRox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Reception issues? You're holding it wrong
    You iPhone 6 display touchscreen stops working? You must have dropped it
    Video display on your Macbook flickering? Isolated, non-systemic incident

  5. Move your iPhone? by PPH · · Score: 5, Funny

    I didn't think you were supposed to remove it from its shrine. Just gaze at it with admiration. If it deems you worthy, it will unlock.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  6. Reasonable explanation, but... by Kenja · · Score: 1

    I still don't want the feature. It seems intrinsically unsecure compared with other biometric options. Frankly, not seen a reason to upgrade from my iPhone 6+ yet. I like the edge to edge display, but not at that price point and size. I'd be more interested in something smaller than my current phone but with the same size screen.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:Reasonable explanation, but... by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 1

      I want bigger bezels actually, a good place to hold my phone. Currently it's uncomfortable and only has a bezel on the top and bottom that provide enough space for my thumb to push against to hold the phone, but then the weight is off so I can't hold it.

    2. Re:Reasonable explanation, but... by Junta · · Score: 1

      Well not that reasonable... Too many faces is a likely thing to happen in real life. There's just too much stray input for this to be a good idea to have a lockout on...

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  7. Movement causes battery drain? by Spy+Handler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple's explanation sounds like people simply moving the phone around caused the phone to try to authenticate via Face ID, and because the authentication attempts failed, the phone required Craig Federaghi to enter his passcode.

    Seems like the phone could waste electricity trying to face authenticate when no such authentication is wanted.

    1. Re:Movement causes battery drain? by flargleblarg · · Score: 1

      Seems like the phone could waste electricity trying to face authenticate when no such authentication is wanted.

      Doubtful. It probably requires motion to be detected first.

    2. Re:Movement causes battery drain? by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 1

      Think that through again. How's it going to tell the difference between the phone just being jostled around and the phone being jostled around with a face staring at it? It's not like there's a physical button you can press to signal your intent to unlock so it scans your face on command.

    3. Re:Movement causes battery drain? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Apple's explanation sounds like people simply moving the phone around caused the phone to try to authenticate via Face ID, and because the authentication attempts failed, the phone required Craig Federaghi to enter his passcode. Seems like the phone could waste electricity trying to face authenticate when no such authentication is wanted.

      Well, the presentation gave the impression you had to do a pretty deliberate swipe. But since it's just a touchscreen movement as opposed to the physical pressing of a button, well... I dunno. It'll probably be reviewed to death before long. The word "facegate" will be used, you heard it here first. Personally I'm think that worst case on the fail side, you have to enter the PIN. Big whoop. On the security side, I expect someone to either steal my unlocked phone when I'm handling it or if they really want to then manhandle me to get my fingerprint today or look at the phone tomorrow. Or just force me to hand over the PIN, I mean if you're first mugging me... you might say a pickpocket might try to do an unlock and run instead of just stealing it now, but eh... it seems far fetched. Battery drain might be bad, but I'm sure Apple's engineers have pockets and that's the main point I'm interested in. Carrying it around for extended time in hand is not something I do unless I'm in an app, in which case it is unlocked. But I guess everything breaks somebody's workflow...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  8. "You're holding it wrong" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People were handling the device for [the] stage demo ahead of time and didn't realise Face ID was trying to authenticate their face,

    Just make sure you do not leave it face up on a table anywhere where your significant other, boy/girfriend, kids and/or sibblings or just random other public could be getting into the viewing angle of that camera (sitting down eating your lunch perhaps ? Or just at your desk in class or at work ? Or relaxing on the couch with the phone on the side table ?) ...

    Yet another of those "working well in a controlled environment, but not thought out for real life" "enhancements". :-)

  9. "It worked as intended" by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    The company blamed the Face ID glitch on a lockout mechanism triggered by staff members moving the device ahead of its unveil.

    So basically, they're saying they were holding it wrong?

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  10. It just about works. by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Funny

    I mean, who would ever move a mobile phone? Clearly this is an extreme corner[1] case that bears no resemblance to typical usage.

    [1] Rounded, of course.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  11. Freebie for three-letter agencies by ItsJustAPseudonym · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I can just hear the NSA drooling over this feature now. A phone that tries to facial-recognize everyone who gets in range? It must be one of their wildest dreams come true.

    1. Re:Freebie for three-letter agencies by Prien715 · · Score: 2

      Indeed. Between this and Alexa/Google Home, we've installed what are the potential eyes and eyes of Big Brother into homes without realizing it. Even Mark Zuckerberg puts a sticker on his laptop's camera.

      --
      -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
    2. Re:Freebie for three-letter agencies by JcMorin · · Score: 1

      Or just ask Apple to send to them the 3D scan of everyone how configured their phone.

  12. Most common phrase at blackhat/Defcon: by hattable · · Score: 1

    "...well, if I've sacrificed enough goats and or what not, this demo will work..."

    Yes a hobby project vs. Apple Flagship Project [blah] are different, but this is just boring. At least when Gates BSOD'd, it was the laugh of the day, and not trying to be taken as an accurate representation of every person and product in the company.

    --
    OMG facts!
  13. Never had a User Base just Fanbois by ghoul · · Score: 2

    Apple never does user surveys and asks customers what they want. In Apple philosophy customers are dumb , they do not know what they want. Apple builds it and they come

    --
    **Life is too short to be serious**
  14. Murphy's Vortex by JBMcB · · Score: 2

    Unless you've ever done a live demo in front of a lot of people, nobody can quite understand how freaky it is to have stuff go wrong like this.

    A company I used to work for did a live demo of a brand new technology at a CES press conference once. Nearly every engineer in the company was on hand monitoring stuff. We must have done a dozen dry runs before the live demo, and that was after testing the crap out of it in the lab. We got it up and running before the presentation and left it running - no stopping or starting. It worked fine, but that was how freaked out the engineers and sales guys were over the demo - 'cause they've done them before and saw stuff go haywire for no particular reason.

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    1. Re:Murphy's Vortex by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Hell, this is true of anything. I remember one of my first corporate gigs, I installed a few racks of servers, with really nice UPSes. Set up the management software to run self tests, rotated discharge tests, the whole nine yards. Even scheduled the occasional test of 'yank the power cord.'

      What happens the first time there's a real power outage? One of the UPSes flips out, locks up, doesn't transfer over to the battery, and down goes the rack. Never happened again.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    2. Re:Murphy's Vortex by Strider- · · Score: 2

      Unless you've ever done a live demo in front of a lot of people, nobody can quite understand how freaky it is to have stuff go wrong like this.

      One of the products I worked with was an auto-acquire satellite dish. The idea is that you assemble the unit, hit the button, and the thing goes and finds your desired satellite in the sky. It was brand new, we were just breaking into that space (if you'll pardon the pun), and we had tested the hell out of it. It was pretty quick, and quite reliable.

      Then we had to do a sales demo in front of a major distributor in East London. We get to London, I setup the thing at the Hotel and check it out, everything's going well. We pack up, and the next day go to the customer site. I put the unit together, showing how easy it is, and hit the go button, and immediately the thing starts going crazy. Well, the one thing we had missed? We had tested it entirely in the Western Hemisphere. There was a bug in the software that couldn't handle longitude on the east side of the prime meridian. Oops.

      So, I just sort of carry on and say "and if you're in a GPS denied environment, you can pick a nearby city from the included database, and it will use that instead." and boom, it works.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
  15. Re:how is this different from with Windows98 BSOD by war4peace · · Score: 1

    how is this different from the famious BSOD on stage at a trade show as Gates was touting how stable it was until u plugged in a kybd..

    FYI it was a scanner.

    --
    ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
  16. Accurate demo. by deep44 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Accurate demo of just how frustrating it will be to use this stupid feature.

    They obviously started with the idea of removing the home button, and worked backwards from there. Let's see: no home button means no fingerprint scanning ... couldn't go back to passcode-only because they already told everyone how bad that is ... iris scanning didn't pan out for whatever reason ... so ... facial recognition it is. Oh yeah, and swipe up to go home, because it hadn't dawned on anyone to try that before and turns out it's the best approach.

    1. Re:Accurate demo. by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Pretty weenie Apple, pretty weenie..

    2. Re:Accurate demo. by Wraithlyn · · Score: 1

      Right, because passing your locked phone around for people to stare at is a normal usage pattern.

      You'd think how well TouchID was implemented would give people SOME confidence, but who am I kidding.

      --
      "Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
  17. Re:how is this different from with Windows98 BSOD by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

    The difference is that Microsoft never had the slogan "It Just Works".

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  18. Re:Welcome to 5 years ago Apple by green1 · · Score: 1

    If you think Apple has ever been ahead of the curve in the phone department you've been drinking way too much of their koolaid. Every feature they've ever launched has been done by someone else before, usually several someone elses.

  19. You have to look at the phone by Immerial · · Score: 1

    Eyes must be open and looking directly at the phone. With the sensor array, I bet you could also check to see if someone is prying your eyes open with their finger... or it's different enough with hands overlaid for the face recognition not to match.

    1. Re:You have to look at the phone by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      Eyes must be open and looking directly at the phone. With the sensor array, I bet you could also check to see if someone is prying your eyes open with their finger... or it's different enough with hands overlaid for the face recognition not to match.

      So during the questioning by police, they simply hold up the phone to you and ask you if it is your phone. You look up to see, and it unlocks.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    2. Re:You have to look at the phone by Immerial · · Score: 1

      Look at it with one eye... and you are all set.

  20. It's always the user's fault. by elcor · · Score: 1

    "didn't realise Face ID was trying to authenticate their face" Nice to throw a human being under the bus, too bad they're the ones buying those iphones

  21. It was asked for indirectly. by nuckfuts · · Score: 1

    No one asked for this feature, but Apple wants to give it to us anyway. They have really lost touch with their user base...

    Users may not have asked directly for an alternative to to the fingerprint reader, but consumer preference for larger screens made it desirable to get rid of the fingerprint reader / home button.

  22. Their own staff didn't know how it operated by Archon · · Score: 2

    "People were handling the device for [the] stage demo ahead of time and didn't realise Face ID was trying to authenticate their face."

    Everything had already been leaked, yet Apple's overzealous secrecy meant their own staff didn't know how to operate the devices they were being tasked to prepare for presentation. More than ample time/money/staff/resources to train the prep crew appropriately but deliberately chose not to.

    I'd consider this more a management error than the prep crew.

    1. Re:Their own staff didn't know how it operated by kencurry · · Score: 1

      I saw the live webcast, and actually the apple guy (don't remember his name) handled it pretty smoothly. Knowing it was a live demo in front of millions of people, the average VP might've hesitated, but demo was smooth overall. He went right back to opening the phone with facial without hesitation just a couple minutes later, so again I would say he seemed confident on how system would behave.

      --
      sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
    2. Re:Their own staff didn't know how it operated by Archon · · Score: 1

      That was Craig Federighi, SVP of software. He's been presenting at Apple events for years.

      I was referring to Apple's "white glove" crew that meticulously polishes and preps the devices prior to demonstration. They were the ones Apple claims didn't understand how Face ID worked during handling and what potential future consequences would come of it.

  23. Nope, it doesn't use the camera at all. by Brannon · · Score: 1

    Try again.

  24. and I thought by renegade600 · · Score: 1

    and here I thought they were holding the phone wrong.

  25. Poor staff member by DuroSoft · · Score: 1

    He was promptly taken outside and shot behind the chemical shed.