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Google Unveils Pixel 2 and Pixel 2 XL With No Headphone Jack (venturebeat.com)

From a report: Google product chief Mario Queiroz today unveiled two new Android 8.1 Oreo smartphones at the company's annual hardware event: the Pixel 2 and the Pixel 2 XL. The smaller Pixel 2 sports a 5-inch, 1080p display, with a 16:9 aspect ratio that was until this year the standard on Android flagships. The larger Pixel 2 XL, meanwhile, has a 6-inch, QHD+ display in an 18:9 aspect ratio, in line with 2017's flagship smartphones. The Pixel 2 thus still has a large bezel while the Pixel XL 2 has a noticeably reduced bezel profile, although certainly not the smallest we've seen. As always, smartphone size also dictates battery capacity: 2700 mAh for the Pixel 2 and 3520 mAh for the Pixel 2 XL. Here's the rundown: Snapdragon 835 chipset, 4GB of RAM, either 64GB or 128GB of storage, an 8-megapixel front-facing camera, a 12-megapixel rear camera, front stereo speakers, a fingerprint scanner on the back, a USB-C port on the bottom, and no headphone jack. "Use your existing analog headphones with the included adapter," Queiroz said. [...] The HTC-manufactured Pixel 2 will be available in Just Black, Clearly White, and Kinda Blue on October 19. The LG-manufactured Pixel 2 XL will ship in Just Black and Black & White on November 15. The Pixel 2 will be available for $649 (64GB) and $749 (128GB) while the Pixel 2 XL will come in $849 (64GB) and $949 (128GB) flavors.

291 comments

  1. Bye by OverlordQ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fi-licia.

    "You dont need SD cards, put it all in the cloud! Oh by the way, data is $10/GB"

    --
    Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    1. Re:Bye by dknj · · Score: 4, Insightful

      just another digital rights grab by the music industry. too little, too late. the worry is when android ceases to stop supporting the analog headphone jack, this is what google is setting up for

      -dk

    2. Re:Bye by wardrich86 · · Score: 2

      Not only to mention that I can't reach the cloud from TWRP if I need to re-flash a ROM or a software package. Fuck this shit. Phones are practically mini computers, and they should be able to function as such.

    3. Re:Bye by Luthair · · Score: 2

      I think you're overestimating the need for the SD storage - for non-technical people its more complex to manage, it can affect performance and it turned out to not be necessary for most users. As someone who buys the base storage on every mobile device I've only run out of storage once - a 2-year old tablet when I downloaded a bunch of video for a trip.

    4. Re:Bye by tbuddy · · Score: 1

      Could just use an external storage via USB-OTG. I generally like to wipe everything if I'm getting into recovery to flash. Generally happy enough with lineage or omnirom doing the OTAs though, so recovery generally not something I need to spend that much time in.

    5. Re:Bye by Squiddie · · Score: 1

      Android being an open source (not necessarily free) operating system, why should it? Assuming you have the hardware to put it into, you should be able to support the 3.5mm jack.

    6. Re:Bye by zenbi · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Did anyone else notice the microphone is always on and listening? On a phone. Without a disable switch.

      Speaking of audio, the Pixel 2s have a music recognition feature that is always on, Google’s director of product management Sabrina Ellis revealed. Whenever music is playing nearby and the second-generation Pixel recognizes the song, it will automatically show the artist and title on your lock screen.

      The obvious next step is to display an ad to "purchase" the song in the Play store. Or maybe just go ahead and charge you anyway if you don't a have sufficient license to the song. Be careful what you say near a Pixel phone. If the phone can continually listen for songs, it could also continually listen for key words and phrases.

      It was terribly dangerous to let your thoughts wander when you were in any public place or within range of a telescreen. The smallest thing could give you away. A nervous tic, an unconscious look of anxiety, a habit of muttering to yourself – anything that carried with it the suggestion of abnormality, of having something to hide. In any case, to wear an improper expression on your face (to look incredulous when a victory was announced, for example) was itself a punishable offense. There was even a word for it in Newspeak: facecrime, it was called.

      You are a slow learner, Winston.

    7. Re: Bye by Luthair · · Score: 1

      Your higher brain functions are clearly missing and your face looks like a dumpster fire. No disrespect, just fact.

    8. Re:Bye by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Just buy a OnePlus phone and fuck Google. It's cheaper to boot.

    9. Re:Bye by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      It shouldn't be more complex to manage. The problem is Android is braindead stupid about handling removable storage. Especially storing applications on removable storage.

    10. Re:Bye by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      I've run out of storage on virtually every Android device I've owned. The last two devices I've bought supported the newer Android feature whereby your SD card is fused with your local storage, and that works very well, and contrary to Google's own complaints about the idea, doesn't appear to have any noticeable performance issues.

      I think expandable storage is the way to go. To be honest, I'd like to see phones actually have multiple SD card slots.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    11. Re:Bye by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By definition manually handling removable storage cards is more complex than not doing that.

    12. Re:Bye by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've run out of storage on virtually every Android device I've owned. The last two devices I've bought supported the newer Android feature whereby your SD card is fused with your local storage, and that works very well, and contrary to Google's own complaints about the idea, doesn't appear to have any noticeable performance issues.

      I think expandable storage is the way to go. To be honest, I'd like to see phones actually have multiple SD card slots.

      The only possible way it could have no effect on performance is if the speed of the internal storage is so ridiculously slow that you don't notice when you "fuse" another ridiculously slow storage to it. But I do suppose this is how most phones are anyway.

      Show me an SD card that can get 750MB/s read and write.

    13. Re:Bye by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      Can you provide a citation that there is no "disable switch"?

    14. Re:Bye by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      fuck Google.

      Agreed. Google burnt its last bridge with me by pushing the EME through. Same with Netflix. Microsoft had burnt its last bridge with me many years ago.

      They can all go rot.

    15. Re: Bye by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I abandoned Google when they and Huawei didn't want to replace my failing Nexus 6P battery. Bought a Oneplus 5, and can't imagine why anyone would pay double for other phones. Dual sim is really useful on trips.

    16. Re:Bye by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only possible way it could have no effect on performance is if the speed of the internal storage is so ridiculously slow that you don't notice when you "fuse" another ridiculously slow storage to it. But I do suppose this is how most phones are anyway.

      Show me an SD card that can get 750MB/s read and write.

      Pretty much true, SD cards are notoriously slow. Then again, Android isn't all that fast either.

    17. Re:Bye by zenbi · · Score: 1

      Android has a history of allowing applications that insert ads on the lock screen and preventing the user from disabling them. Many devices, including my own Asus Transformer tablet, have preinstalled applications that can not be uninstalled or disabled. This type of user-hostile experience has been common on Android devices since the very beginning.

    18. Re: Bye by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #CrookedHillary lost. Get over it, she's not going to bring back your headphone jacks.

    19. Re:Bye by Hognoxious · · Score: 0

      The same way USB mass storage is supported?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    20. Re: Bye by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Were you talking about bloatware that can't be disabled earlier? No you dumbass.

    21. Re: Bye by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you want to flash a rom over the cloud. .. Do you like playing with fire?

    22. Re: Bye by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't know if you're being daft on purpose, but several phones do support usb mass storage .

    23. Re:Bye by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      Did anyone else notice the microphone is always on and listening? On a phone. Without a disable switch.

      It's off by default and can be turned on, same as on the Pixel 1s. The statement means they have a feature that can be enabled to have it always listen to music.

      Crisis averted.

      Or maybe just go ahead and charge you anyway if you don't a have sufficient license to the song.

      You know what else it might do? It just MIGHT send links to any pr0n you view to your wife! Really, I guarantee it might do that.

      You want to know how I know that'll never happen? Because if it did no one would use the device and they'd be a total flop. You see, I used a tool called "common sense" to get to the bottom of this.

    24. Re:Bye by farble1670 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Can you provide a citation that there is no "disable switch"?

      There absolutely is a disable switch. I'm looking at it right now on my Android 8 Pixel XL. The setting was off by default.

    25. Re:Bye by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See, that's the big problem with Google Fi. It's like that department has no clue what the rest of the company is doing. Google has spent a decade (or two, depending on when you want to start counting) pushing for essentially unlimited unrestricted internet. They finally got a chance to provide their own mobile service, and while it may be a lot cheaper as a base plan for people who don't use much, it's actually one of the most expensive options if you actually make ample use of the internet, and actually encourages people to throttle and check and be careful not to use too much bandwidth.

    26. Re:Bye by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Name one consumer-marketed phone that has a disable switch for the microphone. No, I'm not talking about a software setting that says "don't always listen for ambient music". And I mean a physical disconnect switch. Because if your phone has a physically connected microphone, your government can listen to you just as easily.

      Go ahead, I'll wait.

    27. Re:Bye by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I take it you are talking about the power switch. Yes, that'll disable the feature in the off position.

    28. Re:Bye by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There absolutely is a disable switch. I'm looking at it right now on my Android 8 Pixel XL. The setting was off by default.

      You mean the pretty, prominent, colorful, fake switch that does nothing?

      You are a slow learner, Winston.

    29. Re:Bye by Luthair · · Score: 1

      I think the perf issue is that many users would look at a 30-40$ SD card say f that and buy the $8 one in the dollar store. Then blame their phone for being slow & corrupting data.

    30. Re:Bye by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To disable the microphone you simply say "disable" and it turns off.
      Conversely, to enable it again, you simply say "enable" and it turns back on.

    31. Re: Bye by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft gets money for every device with (micro) SD card slot if it can read sdxc cards, due to the file system being MS EXFAT, which they get royalties on.

      And somehow they got the SDXC standard to require EXFAT formatting.

      Just use owncloud or nextcloud and be done with things. You may need that anyway, since phones get lost and stolen, aside from breaking, where surely the uSD solution is great.

      aRTee

    32. Re:Bye by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 1

      So you just assumed Google provided no disable switch for having the microphone always on on the official android build, because Amazon and Motorola did not provide a disable switch for a totally different feature on Google's open platform that anyone can modify?

    33. Re: Bye by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Several? A few old ones. Others might if you enable developer mode, slaughter a goat and pass three consecutive Dex rolls.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  2. Good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I didn't want to listen to reliably music anyways.

  3. Cue the Android fanboy apologists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Go on. Do the opposite of what you did when Apple decided to leave out the headphone jack.

    1. Re:Cue the Android fanboy apologists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm glad Google is finally showing some courage here. Better late than never, I say.

    2. Re:Cue the Android fanboy apologists by swan5566 · · Score: 3, Funny

      No. Android users aren't really counterparts to Apple users. If it was Apple, Android, or some other name, I couldn't care less. All it is is cost/functionality. Brand identity, style points, and hipster trendiness doesn't factor in, one way or the other. This camp vs. that camp is the wrong way to look at it. We're even more different than Apple fanboys than you think.

      --
      In debates about Christianity, there are two groups: those looking for answers, and those looking to just ask questions.
    3. Re:Cue the Android fanboy apologists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The OP said "android fanboys", not "android users". Yes, I noticed too that there were lots of Android fanboys shouting about not having headphone jack. Google always check if the idea is successful, then it copies. Touchscreen only phone (no keyboard) --> copied. Java programming --> copied, Linux kernel base --> copied, fingerprint sensor --> copied, retina (high res) display --> copied, image stabilization --> copied (remember, two years ago, they said it is not needed). And now no headphone jack. Also the Google Home Max is a copy of Apple speaker. All fabnoys shouted that no one needs costly smart speaker because it has better music and now Google has one.

    4. Re:Cue the Android fanboy apologists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forgot to include $159 priced earbuds --> copied.
      Expensive phones --> copied
      Small and larger screen phones --> copied

    5. Re:Cue the Android fanboy apologists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I've used Android for all of my smartphones. I've used the Nexus series for a very long time and been very happy with them. With the Pixel 2 being the successor to the Nexus line, it looks like I'll be finding a different make since this is BS on the part of Google to take away a port I use nearly every day. They don't need my money apparently.

      How's that for the Android fanboy apologist?

    6. Re:Cue the Android fanboy apologists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As a longtime Android user: No. Screw Google and their terrible decision-making. It was a mistake when Apple removed their headphone jack, and it's a mistake now that Google's doing the same. They couldn't even copy Apple and re-add wireless charging to their new $700 phone, even though my old Nexus 5 ($100 new, last I checked) supports it.

      Google is turning into Apple, and I hate it.

    7. Re:Cue the Android fanboy apologists by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I still love Android. Of course, I use Samsung and they still have headphone jacks. No need for me to ever consider a Pixel 2. See, that's the advantage of Android - actual CHOICE about features, not just "which color and what size" like you get with Apple! If choice is confusing to you, then by all means live with an Apple product, but if you want to actually have a choice from dozens of manufacturers of a few hundred models - Android works nicely.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    8. Re:Cue the Android fanboy apologists by GabeGhearing · · Score: 1

      Did you feel the same way about 3.5inch floppy disks? Honestly, the 3.5mm headset jack standard is silly when you are trying to efficiently power headsets(if you don't care about power efficiency it's a fine standard).

      The amp soldered into your Nexus5 won't drive most high-impedance headsets, but if you move the amp from your phone into the headset you not only eliminate a bunch of headaches when buying equipment, but you also improve sound quality and power efficiency. http://archimago.blogspot.com/...

    9. Re: Cue the Android fanboy apologists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The USB stick was superior to the floppy in every way but as a not device when it was supplanting the floppy.

      Back to headphones, what percentage of these things are the high impedence type? I open some decent sets, all sub $300 range, and all run without an amp.

    10. Re:Cue the Android fanboy apologists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 3.5mm headset jack is more efficient for most headsets available on the market. If you choose to plug a pair of studio-quality headsets into your non-studio-quality audio port that's a PEBKAC problem, not a problem with the design.

    11. Re:Cue the Android fanboy apologists by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Why would you expect this?

      Dropping the headphone jack wasn't bad because Apple did it. It's bad because it degrades functionality.

      Google doing the same thing doesn't make it any better.

    12. Re:Cue the Android fanboy apologists by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Did you feel the same way about 3.5inch floppy disks?

      No, because 3.5 inch disks were actually an improvement.

      if you move the amp from your phone into the headset you not only eliminate a bunch of headaches when buying equipment, but you also improve sound quality and power efficiency.

      So where are these better-sounding bluetooth earbuds? I've tried out a bunch of them, and even the best that I've tried sound worse than the best wired earbuds.

    13. Re: Cue the Android fanboy apologists by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      Just leave the conversation if you're not going to make sense. I'm guessing you meant USB was the improvement.

    14. Re:Cue the Android fanboy apologists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. I'm still on an iPhone 6 and was hoping to move to the Pixel 2. No headphone jack killed it. Bluetooth sound is just subpar compared to even moderately priced wired buds (~$180). I've even tried headphones that support aptX and it's still noticeable to me.

      Now for podcasts and audio books this doesn't really matter. The difference isn't that noticeable listening to somebody talk. But for Music, ugh.

    15. Re: Cue the Android fanboy apologists by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      I thought that the comment "Did you feel the same way about 3.5inch floppy disks?" was saying "Were you pissed off about 3.5 inch disks because it meant 5.25 inch disks were going away?"

    16. Re:Cue the Android fanboy apologists by PRMan · · Score: 1

      My daughter didn't want a Galaxy S8 (when Dad was buying her one for free after she dropped her phone), she wanted a Pixel. But once she heard that it didn't have a headphone jack, it was dead to her.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    17. Re: Cue the Android fanboy apologists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are much more likely to break or lose your headphones than you are the device therefore your expensive things like the amp are better off inside the device. Also i have way more headphones/earphones/headsets than i do devices. It makes way more sense in terms of pricing/the environment/weight/durability to have the amp inside the device where it is powered too.

    18. Re: Cue the Android fanboy apologists by GabeGhearing · · Score: 1

      The amp/dac for low-impedance headsets are dirt cheap, if you just want to convert all your current headphones that already work on cellphones to USB-C you can find adapters for a couple dollars. https://www.amazon.com/Headpho...

    19. Re:Cue the Android fanboy apologists by GabeGhearing · · Score: 1

      The 3.5mm headset jack is more efficient for most headsets available on the market.

      No, the current analog headsets are generally less efficient(their efficiency greatly changes depending on what headset is hooked to what source). Audio Device Class 3.0 (ADC 3.0) headsets use less power since the ADC/DAC is balanced to the microphone/speaker and not just specced to some rate so that most speakers work-ish. http://gadgets.ndtv.com/mobile...

      You can buy cheap, power efficient USB-C headphones if you want($5). You can buy Noise-Cancelling USB-C headphones if you want(they don't need batteries like 3.5mm versions). Currently the only headphones that use ADC3.0 "hotword detection" are bluetooth(Google and Apple's earbuds). If you use things like "Hey Siri" or "OK Google", then the power savings are potentially huge with "hotword detection" happening on the earpiece.

    20. Re: Cue the Android fanboy apologists by GabeGhearing · · Score: 1
      3.5" and 5.25" floppies came out in the early 80s at about the same time. 5.25" floppies were slightly cheaper to manufacture but were much easier to destroy. They both replaced 8inch disks, but I've only ever seen two 8 inch floppy drives. 5.25" wasn't really replaced, it just faded away.

      Back when the original iMac was released it was unclear what was going to supplant 1.44MB 3.5" floppies(or if Apple had just made a stupid mistake). CD-RWs were the obvious choice, but competing formats were annoying. USB Flash drives were expensive and slow. Many people just got USB Floppy adapters. The arguments against not having 3.5mm jacks on phones are extremely similar to the arguments against not having 3.5inch floppy drives on computers.

      I have all these (reformatted AOL disks)/(cheap earbuds) I use to (store files)/(listen to stuff). I don't care if supporting the old standard means you have to make clunky devices, I want to use my old crap to work with the new devices!

    21. Re: Cue the Android fanboy apologists by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      3.5" and 5.25" floppies came out in the early 80s at about the same time.

      Umm, no. 5.25 inch floppies were around for years before 3.5 inch. 5.25 hit the market in 1976, 3.5 in the early '80s.

  4. Dammit Google by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    Do they have an ugly notch at the top of the screen as well?

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Dammit Google by perpenso · · Score: 1

      Do they have an ugly notch at the top of the screen as well?

      In the $1,000 Pixel X, they probably will :-)

    2. Re:Dammit Google by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Oh, and they even introduced their own overpriced Bluetooth earbuds for $159!

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    3. Re:Dammit Google by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      ...guaranteed to be more of a pain in the ass than whatever you are using now.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    4. Re:Dammit Google by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      "$949 (128GB)"
      That is fairly close to the $1000 mark The $51.00 difference on the grand scheme of things isn't that much of an issue.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re:Dammit Google by Luthair · · Score: 1

      Overpriced?! They added a button for their assistant, thats worth at least a $50 markup.

    6. Re:Dammit Google by perpenso · · Score: 1

      I'm ignoring the respective phablets from Apple and Google (Plus and XL) and just going with the base phones, Pixel 2 and iPhone 8, vs iPhone X.

    7. Re:Dammit Google by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      The iPhone X in terms of Specs is closer to the phablet. The usable screen area in the iPhone X is rather close to the usable screen area in in iPhone 8+.

      So you should rather compare the Pixel 2 against the iPhone 8

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    8. Re:Dammit Google by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      A bargain if it turns the fucking bastard off.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  5. No Jack No Problem by BingmanO · · Score: 1

    In the beginning I really thought I would be bothered by the next gen Pixel not having a headphone jack, but all my connected devices are bluetooth (Bose and Jabbra). I currently own the Pixel XL and I haven't used the headphone jack once since i picked it up.

    1. Re:No Jack No Problem by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

      I still use my headphone jack in my car when listening to free digital music streams. That way, I can flip to something else on the radio during the free stream commercials and flip back later without the Bluetooth sync time or the music app stopping the commercial play. (I just hit "Aux" after the commercials sdhould have finished and the free stream is playing again.)

    2. Re:No Jack No Problem by dbialac · · Score: 4, Insightful

      By using bluetooth, you lose out on high-fidelity audio. A simple test: listen to a high-quality recording via bluetooth on your car, then try listening to the same audio through the AUX without the volume turned up too high as this can also create a different type of distortion. The muffling of the bass with bluetooth will be clear as daylight. This is why I never use bluetooth audio.

    3. Re:No Jack No Problem by guacamole · · Score: 1

      Well, half of my connected devices are wired and I don't intend to change that. All BT headphones are tried are either too expensive for what they are or not comfortable to wear. I want to continue using my audiphile grade wired Sennheiser PX-100II or Koss porta pros.

    4. Re:No Jack No Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are we seriously talking about audio fidelity inside a car filled with road noise?

    5. Re:No Jack No Problem by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Yes if you like the music and know them songs by heart.
      generic radio songs don't matter, they could play through CowboyNeal's asshole for all I care.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    6. Re:No Jack No Problem by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Are we seriously talking about audio fidelity inside a car filled with road noise?

      My car is made out of Aluminum and filled with asphalt and double glazing, you insensitive clod! You can hear a mouse fart under the seat.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:No Jack No Problem by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      That is actually by regulation. Per EN50332 (which is required in France, and supposed to be required in the rest of the EU next year), the maximum SPL your bluetooth headphone can generate at 0 dBFS signal is 100 dB and any volume controls on the headphone turned to max. With a wired interface, you're limited to 100 dB SPL @ 175 mV input; meaning, if you have a volt or more output level (which is common for cell phones), you can reach peaks well above 100 dB SPL. Bluetooth is purposefully handicapped in volume by regulations, and you don't have the same limits with wired connections. Dynamic peaks of >100 dB SPL are great when you're averaging 70-75 dB SPL listening levels!

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    8. Re:No Jack No Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol I drive a Jeep Wrangler. Anything playing over the speakers is the background music to my road noise.

    9. Re:No Jack No Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The focus is on bluetooth and not on car. You can replace car with a home if you like (and you have a brain larger than a peanut).

    10. Re: No Jack No Problem by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Say hello to jitter for me.

    11. Re:No Jack No Problem by AvitarX · · Score: 2

      Don't decent bluetooth headphones receive the actual audio file and do the decoding themself?

      It should in that case be as good as what's on the phone. I assume that's what "0 latency audio" means.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    12. Re:No Jack No Problem by chipschap · · Score: 1

      I use the headphone jack all the time. I'm not about to replace all my wired headphones/earbuds, some of which are of high audio quality.

      As to the audio volume issue, that's legit for both Bluetooth and wired. To fix it I had to root the phone and edit a config file to increase the hard-coded maximums.

    13. Re:No Jack No Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hear no difference. This is with an iPhone streaming AAC over BT, which I believe is at 256 kbps. That is beyond one's ability to differentiate from lossless. Past android phones have had BT streaming issues, but I think newer ones can do AAC or aptX, which are good quality.

    14. Re:No Jack No Problem by Junta · · Score: 1

      Maybe my ears suck or maybe my headunit sucks no matter the input (though *I* think it sounds pretty good, so back to point 1 in theory) or maybe the road noise renders it all moot or maybe A2DP in my case is using a really good codec (aac, @ 250 kpbs is for example possible), but I can't tell the difference between line in and bluetooth. With bluetooth your mileage may vary *greatly* based on the profile, codec, and codec implementation in your phone and other device. No one is going to say there is an audible difference between uncompressed and 250kbps AAC under *any* listening scenarios. An argument can be made for doing processing to the audio to remix or whatever, but for listening purposes, Bluetooth now can produce sound that no human can tell the difference.

      Now I wouldn't want bluetooth headphones because it's yet another damn battery to worry about, but a usb-type c doesn't seem too onerous.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    15. Re:No Jack No Problem by Junta · · Score: 2

      Maybe in theory, in practice it'll get transcoded. However it is possible it is being transcoded to AAC @ 250kbps, and other than moster cable customers no one is going to claim there is a difference that can be perceived.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    16. Re:No Jack No Problem by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      I take it you don't have kids who have their own phones. Cheaply replaceable peripherals are a hard requirement for any portable device that they get.

      Whatever you think the solution is, it WILL get shoved in pockets, roughly plugged and unplugged, damaged, lost, put through a laundry cycle. If it last less than 2 months with that abuse or costs more than $10 to replace or isn't available at a local supermarket, I'm not interested.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    17. Re:No Jack No Problem by xonen · · Score: 1

      The muffling of the bass with bluetooth will be clear as daylight.

      While i do agree on the inferior (though usually acceptable) quality of bluetooth audio, the reason you hear more bass over your headphone-to-aux cable is because your phone (or other device) expects those modern headphones that simply are to small to have a linear frequency characteristic, hence needs the bass boosted (and the high tones reduced) for a better sound experience.

      You might want to use an equalizer or tone control when you use aux. Don't use those software equalizers though.. they may work (sortof) but usually they suck big time and the general audio quality is greatly reduced. Better use tone control on whatever amp you have imho.

      --
      A glitch a day keeps the bugs away.
    18. Re:No Jack No Problem by PRMan · · Score: 1

      I use Bluetooth and I have very good bass.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    19. Re:No Jack No Problem by deviated_prevert · · Score: 1

      That is actually by regulation. Per EN50332 (which is required in France, and supposed to be required in the rest of the EU next year), the maximum SPL your bluetooth headphone can generate at 0 dBFS signal is 100 dB and any volume controls on the headphone turned to max. With a wired interface, you're limited to 100 dB SPL @ 175 mV input; meaning, if you have a volt or more output level (which is common for cell phones), you can reach peaks well above 100 dB SPL. Bluetooth is purposefully handicapped in volume by regulations, and you don't have the same limits with wired connections. Dynamic peaks of >100 dB SPL are great when you're averaging 70-75 dB SPL listening levels!

      Hughhh said the Deaf Leopard

      --
      This message was not sent from an iPhone because Peter Sellers really was a deviated prevert without a dime for the call
    20. Re:No Jack No Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about midrange?

    21. Re:No Jack No Problem by spongman · · Score: 1

      that's nonsense. i can listen to the same MP3 file, with the same set of headphones on either my computer or my phone and they sound indistinguishable.

    22. Re:No Jack No Problem by potscott · · Score: 1

      By using bluetooth, you lose out on high-fidelity audio. A simple test: listen to a high-quality recording via bluetooth on your car, then try listening to the same audio through the AUX without the volume turned up too high as this can also create a different type of distortion. The muffling of the bass with bluetooth will be clear as daylight. This is why I never use bluetooth audio.

      Disagree. I pair my S8+ to my car via Bluetooth and the quality difference is all but indistinguishable. With the advent of CD quality codecs like APT-X, lossy Bluetooth is pretty much a thing of the past.

      --
      I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class, especially since I rule.
    23. Re:No Jack No Problem by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      for listening purposes, Bluetooth now can produce sound that no human can tell the difference.

      My experience has been the opposite. I've yet to see Bluetooth earbuds that produce audio that qualifies as "good" compared to the similarly priced non-Bluetooth earbuds.

      This might be different with cans, where there's more space for components, but I am not interested in using cans with my phone.

    24. Re:No Jack No Problem by Junta · · Score: 1

      For my experience, my car (2015) had Sirius raidio and they are eternally giving me new 'trials' and HD radio as well as line in and bluetooth, so I have some comparison for myself.

      Sirius radio sounds the worst to me, blatantly obvious compression artifacts, I would say roughly like a 64kpbs mp3. I don't understand why I don't see more bitching about the quality of satellite radio. I would say then that my stereo is *at least* good enough for Sirius to let it down.

      A step up from there is FM, and then by the time I get to HD radio, it's reached about as good as *I* can tell.

      HD Radio, line-in, and bluetooth all sound the same to me on my car stereo (which is a 'premium' sound system in terms of positioning by the vendor).

      Now I don't touch bluetooth headphones, they are expensive and a hassle to pair and charge. For that I don't see myself moving away from wires (the phone is on my person anyway, don't see why I would fret about having to deal with a cable). I have a Moto-Z2 Force, which also has no 3.5 mm jack, but my headphones just always have the usb-c to 3.5mm adapter on it. At least this adapter is unobtrusive, no 90 degree turns, not heavy, not particularly large. I see the potential upside of externalizing the DAC and the higher potential power delivery for a usb-type-c compared to what a 3.5mm can do.

      I don't understand the fixation on wireless headphones rather than on usb-c headphones as the answer to no 3.5mm jack.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  6. Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Google, please, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! And by "affordable" we don't mean trashy third-world shit phones, either.

    All we want is the next generation of what the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 phones were. Give us reasonably sized phones that have reasonably good displays and reasonably good performance with reasonably good cameras and with reasonably good quality at a reasonably good price.

    We don't need top-end everything, but nor do we want bottom-end shit, either. Give us a good middle-of-the-road phone.

    It's not even really about finding the money. Many of us can come up with $700 without any problem. The problem is that we don't want to drop that much money on a top-end phone. We'd rather spend $300 to $400, and get something in the middle. The problem is that we don't find anything like that these days, when in the past we did with the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 phones.

    It's dumb to pay $700 or even $1000 for a phone that can be so easily damaged or lost, or worse, become artificially "obsolete" after only 3 years.

    Google, give us something like the Nexus 4 and the Nexus 5 were!

    1. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by guacamole · · Score: 2

      Give us reasonably sized phones that have reasonably good displays and reasonably good performance with reasonably good cameras and with reasonably good quality at a reasonably good price.

      They have already arrived: Moto G5S Plus and Huawei Honor 6X.

    2. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're missing the reason why people want to use phones from Google: a good track record of rapidly getting updates, at least for a few years. Once you start dealing with non-Google Android vendors, the availability of timely updates can start becoming an issue. At least when using a relatively new Google phone, if there's a major security problem found with Android, it's possible to get a fix relatively quickly. That's not always the case with other vendors.

    3. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are plenty of $300-$400 phones on the market. You just don't like them. You want those phones to be much better but not cost more money. That's the actual problem, not your pretend problem that makes you an innocent victim. Do you really think Google is jacking up the price out of greed? That's not their M.O.. High end phones are expensive to make, especially if you're not Apple or Samsung who enjoy enormous economies of scale.

    4. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you read that comment before replying to it? Did you? You probably didn't.

      There are plenty of $300-$400 phones on the market.

      Yeah, and they're not produced by Google. The comment that you didn't read starts out addressed to Google, for crying out loud! People want phones from Google because it's Google who is also providing Android, and these people want updates quickly.

      You want those phones to be much better but not cost more money.

      Again, you didn't read the comment you replied to! It clearly says, "We don't need top-end everything, but nor do we want bottom-end shit, either. Give us a good middle-of-the-road phone."

      High end phones are ...

      Why the fuck are you talking about "high end phones" when the comment you replied to, but didn't read, is clearly talking about mid-range phones?

      If Google could create mid-range phones in the $300 to $400 range a few years ago, they can surely do the same thing today.

      Please refrain from making such fucking stupid comments in the future. Thank you.

    5. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      That and Fi.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    6. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by guacamole · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of $300-$400 phones on the market. You just don't like them.

      The problem is not that there are no 300-400USD smartphones on the market, but the fact that this is a clearly the most unloved segment of the market by the manufacturers. What phones costing between 300-400USD are exactly any good? I could name Huawei Honor 8. It does seem like Huawei did a good job bringing "near flagship" specs and quality to this lower priced device. However, Huawei Honor 8 is a year old now and I haven't seen any alternatives.

      On the low-end side of the market, phones costing less than say 250USD, there has been a vibrant selection of phones for years. Sure, they had trade offs, but these days when you have 250USD phones with large FHD screens, SoC built on modern 14-16nm process, and up to 4GB of RAM, you know the manufacturers are trying hard in that segment.

      If you also look at the "Ferrari" segment of the smartphone market, there is clearly a lot of good phones there. But frankly, I am not impressed indeed with what we get for 300-400USD. Recall, the impact the Nexus 5 (350-400USD launch price) had in 2013 or Oneplus One (300-350USD) in 2014? Those were smartphones with near flagship specs and yet very reasonable pricing. Sadly, both Google and Oneplus bailed out of the market. Oneplus still sells very good phones with flagship specs, but their price is now closer to 500USD.

    7. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by Luthair · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Agreed - its more than just their phones their entire product line has become egregiously expensive.

      If we recount their popular and successful products - Nexus 7, Nexus 4, Nexus 5, Chromecast, Cardboard. Whats the common factor? A good product at a great price.

    8. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by imgod2u · · Score: 1

      The Xiaomi's are also pretty good, but they don't target the US. There's also the iPhone SE -- which will likely get a refresh early next year.

    9. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by u19925 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, Apple does not make them, so we don't know how to copy them. BTW, we are selling phones without 3.5 mm jack and also selling wireless earbuds for $159, just like Apple. Thanks for your interest in Android.

    10. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by Frederic54 · · Score: 1

      The Xiaomi A1 is also not that bad, the LG G5 too.

      --
      "Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
    11. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I have a moto G5 Plus and it sucks.

      It hangs far more often than my BLU Life one X 2 (mini or regular), and random soft reboots about every other day too.

      Maybe the G5S Plus is dramatically better, but I don't think it was out yet.

      I was hoping the Moto Brand would be better, I regret replacing the broken BLU phone with it.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    12. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by lexman098 · · Score: 1

      This is $380. You can get them slightly used on swappa for even less.

    13. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by StormReaver · · Score: 1

      All I want is an Open, reasonably priced phone with reasonable specs on which I can install Plasma Active/Linux. That would take care of every other need I have.

    14. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by bryanbrunton · · Score: 2

      You just described the Moto line of phones from Motorola. I have the Moto E4. Finger print sensor. Replaceable Battery. SD Card Slot. $130.

    15. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by lactose99 · · Score: 1

      Bad phone perhaps? I've haven't had either of those issues with my G5 Plus. I do get the occasional hang if I haven't rebooted the phone in a few weeks but that's about it.

      --
      Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
    16. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by Stolovaya · · Score: 1

      I paid about $450 for my OnePlus 3T. Works really well, even has more RAM than these new Google phones. Though wish it worked on Google Fi...

    17. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google, please, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! And by "affordable" we don't mean trashy third-world shit phones, either.

      Don't hold your breath. Google did the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 because there were no decent midrange phones on the market and they wanted to push OEMs to make some. Now, there are a bunch of them, and Google is aiming to attract people away from Apple. Apple has maintained its market share by providing a level of polish and integration that Android OEMs haven't been able or willing to do. Google aims to fill that gap. Also, Google is not doing "proof of concept to push the market devices" any more, but has gotten serious about actually being a profitable phone maker, and the profits are better at the high end. Of course, they haven't achieved that yet. They need to figure out how to make and sell dramatically larger device volumes first, among other things.

    18. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by nasch · · Score: 1

      I have had great success buying one (or even two) generation old flagship phones. They are exactly what you describe: decent but not amazing specs, actually pretty high build quality because they used to be top of the line, and cost $200-350.

    19. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by nasch · · Score: 1

      I have the Moto E4. Finger print sensor. Replaceable Battery. SD Card Slot. $130.

      Nice!

    20. Re: Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go and make it yourself then. I guess you wonâ(TM)t be profitable which is what youâ(TM)re asking for.

    21. Re: Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have a look at Nokia.

      Good value for money, and they have publicly stated that all recently released phones, even the low end 3, will get OS updates for 2 new Android versions...!

      They also stated they are looking at bootloader unlocking.

    22. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by houghi · · Score: 1

      I pay max 200EUR for my phone. The hink that make it not possible is to know what you mean with "reasonable". This one is reasonable for me.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    23. Re:Google, we need AFFORDABLE Android phones! by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Could be.

      I thought it may be Android 7.0 maybe too. I know I had issues with memory management on 5.0, and this seems to be similar.

      Memory fills up, some hangs, and sometimes stuff closes that shouldn't (navigation or music while driving, the opposite of whatever is on top).

      Maybe it's the Amazon customization too.
      It feels more like my experience with $100-150 phones, not $150-250.

      The Camera is better than the BLU though, which is the main reason I got it.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
  7. Includes an adapter for wired headphones by perpenso · · Score: 1

    I didn't want to listen to reliably music anyways.

    Like Apple, wired is still an option with Google using an included adapter.

    1. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by guacamole · · Score: 0

      So now need need to carry this adapter dangling off the phone or every set of headphones we use, or risk losing it. How great.

      Personally, I hope we can soon pick up a heavily discounted Pixel or Pixel XL, and still enjoy two years of monthly security updates and a headphone jack, now that Google needs to make room for Pixel 2.

    2. Re: Includes an adapter for wired headphones by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      And I'll tell you where they can stick their adapters.

    3. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by lexman098 · · Score: 1

      How many sets of headphones do you have?

    4. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by squiggleslash · · Score: 0

      Can't speak for the poster, but I generally have two - a cheaper set for work, a better set at home. And I also like using my phone to listen to music in the car, and no, Bluetooth, which has a large number of problems, is not the answer there.

      Also good: being able to charge and listen to music at the same time. But, hey, I'm totally sure Google has finally produced a phone that has a battery that lasts longer than a day after moderate use. They have, right?

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    5. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by lexman098 · · Score: 2

      Buy two or three of these and attach them to your headphones. Problem solved.

    6. Re: Includes an adapter for wired headphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I'll tell you where they can stick their adapters.

      That socket seems overused, the adapter keeps falling out.

    7. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      That will last how long in my kid's pocket, do you think?

      As any rail commuter who listens to podcasts can tell you, any plug which connects to a.phone which isn't right angled is going to break within 2 months. Until they work out how to make a USB C connector that robust and that grips as securely as a 3.5mm plug, it's useless to me.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    8. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by msauve · · Score: 1

      "How many sets of headphones do you have?"

      It's not just headphones. I have at least 3 audio systems which I regularly plug my phone into using the 3.5mm jack. And, three pair of 'phones, for different situations (over-the-ear, on-the-ear, in-the ear).

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    9. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by nasch · · Score: 1

      I don't know about robust because it hasn't really been abused, and it isn't right angled, but the USB-C on my Nexus 5X plugs in very securely. I would say more so than the headphones.

    10. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      That will last how long in my kid's pocket, do you think?

      About as long as the $850 phone that it plugs into that's also in your kid's pocket apparently.

    11. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by farble1670 · · Score: 0

      It's not just headphones. I have at least 3 audio systems which I regularly plug my phone into using the 3.5mm jack. And, three pair of 'phones, for different situations (over-the-ear, on-the-ear, in-the ear).

      https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Bl...

      Solved that for you. And if your response is something "But I shouldn't have to buy extras!" consider that your use case is atypical, and it's in everyone's interest if phones don't include niche features because it keeps the cost down. If you have niche needs, then spend the $12 (see above) to get what you need. Don't make everyone else that buys the phone pay for your use case.

      And yeah I haven't used a wired headphone in 5 years. You guys are nuts to deal with cords flapping around and getting hung up on everything.

    12. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by msauve · · Score: 2

      Ah, I see you can't hear very well. Enjoy your low-fi.

      You're seriously arguing that a $1 headphone jack adds cost to a $600 phone?

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    13. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      No kid of mine has ever forgotten that their phone was in the pocket of their school uniform when it went into the laundry. The same can't be said for things that plug into said phones.

      Phones last years. Headphones/earbuds with right-angle 3.5mm plugs last months. Headphones with inline 3.5mm plugs last weeks.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    14. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      More so than the USB-C connectors on my MacBook Pro, then...

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    15. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You guys are nuts to deal with cords flapping around and getting hung up on everything.

      I'm guessing you don't do a lot of international travel, for which (a) you want a single pair of noise-cancelling phones that work with both your devices and in-flight entertainment systems, and (b) you don't want your phones go dead 5 hours into a 10 or 14 hour flight. Yeah, dongle, but I'd rather have the jack inside the phone, rather than outside.

    16. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by spongman · · Score: 1

      lol. the jack, dac and amp are going to add about $2 to a phone's cost. possibly less if the dac is already part of the SoC.

      the phone is > $800.

      this is not about cost saving.

    17. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by lexman098 · · Score: 1

      I'm going to start charging you for these solutions. Lucky for you I charge by the hour and this stuff takes literally 20 seconds to find.

    18. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      the jack, dac and amp are going to add about $2 to a phone's cost.

      In the world of mass-produced consumer electronics, $2 counts as "very expensive".

      I've worked with companies who put a great deal of time and effort into eliminating 20 cent parts, because that translates to a huge amount of money when you're making millions of something.

      this is not about cost saving.

      If it's not, then I am utterly confused as to why they're doing it at all.

    19. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Like Apple, wired is still an option with Google using an included adapter.

      Unlike Apple, they use the same USB-C port on their laptops, so you can buy an adapter and leave it permanently on the headphones. On Pixel, it's really not a big deal; it's just a temporary dongle until the last of your hardware moves to USB-C, and then it is a ubiquitous connector. On iPhone, it's a significant usability problem, because you have to constantly connect and disconnect the adapter when you move the headphones from your Mac to your cell phone, and when it is connected to your Mac, you have to keep up with a loose adapter.

      If Apple had ditched Lightning in favor of USB-C at the same time, there would have been a lot fewer complaints. Then again, at least Apple didn't remove the headphone jack on the MacBook Pro in favor of USB-C like they were reportedly considering doing. Can you imagine having to carry two different dongles just to use a proper pair of headphones with their hardware? That would be enough to make me sell off all my Apple stock and declare them beleaguered again. :-)

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    20. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      Enjoy your low-fi.

      Thank you I do.

      You're seriously arguing that a $1 headphone jack adds cost to a $600 phone?

      $1 is relatively a lot for any single hardware component. But I get your point. Anyway, here's where a little thing I like to call common sense comes in.

      If you were producing a mobile device, and a majority of your consumers wanted a headphone jack and wouldn't buy your product without it ... would you remove it from your product? Would you remove it if the jack's cost was "insignificant" (whatever that means), and had no other effect to the overall product architecture?

      Of course the answer is no, you wouldn't remove it. But they did. It tells you that they did product research and found that most people don't give a crap about the jack, AND it tells you that including the jack probably had other tradeoffs you probably don't understand ... for example, like making it easier to be water resistant, or more durable in dirty conditions, or allowing for front facing speakers, or something neither of us can know unless we talk to the hardware engineers at HTC.

      I mean, what's your theory? Google doesn't like money so they decided knowingly to build a shitty product that no one will buy?

    21. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      in-flight entertainment systems

      Do I watch the shitty movies and commercials on the flight? Nope. That's why I bring my phone. I can load it with the movies I want and without commercials.

      you don't want your phones go dead 5 hours into a 10 or 14 hour flight

      You have to keep up with the tech if you are going to rant about it. I own these:
      https://www.amazon.com/LG-HBS-...

      Which have a 10 hour play time. And they actually get that.

      I also own these:
      https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...

      40 hour play time. These are both low to mid range devices. Their battery life is nothing special among BT headphones.

    22. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      this is not about cost saving.

      Well then what is it?

      Is it that Google doesn't like money? So they decided knowingly to build a a product without necessary features that no one will buy? It's a huge mistake to assume that corporations do anything for any reason other than money. That's their only motivation.

      They removed the jack because it saves some cash amount >0, and the negative press around the removal has already been absorbed by Apple. And make no mistake. The target consumer is an Apple user. That's the pie they want a piece of. They couldn't care less about the low-end device market. They are not interested in competing with a bunch of Chinese phones that cost $200.

    23. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by Dr_Terminus · · Score: 1

      Ugh why are you plugging your 1/8" phone jack into your audio system? Do you also enjoy lo-fi? If you were a true audiophile, you wouldn't rely on the shitty DAC in the phone (even going through an external amp). Instead, you'd buy a standalone DAC and run your device's digital output to that and then out to an amp if you desired.

    24. Re:Includes an adapter for wired headphones by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      The proliferation of small, easily-lost parts was precisely one of the problems that needed solving.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
  8. The fine print guy mumbles the usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    3 point 5 mm jacks sold separately at participating stores. Must be 18 or older.

  9. Ugly as sin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Two tone Municipal Blue and black? It's like they gave up and let a committee design it.

    Oh, and good job missing a huge opportunity with the headphone jack; they could have stood out as consumer friendly, but instead they've just perpetuated the iPhone-wannabe aspect.

    Decline is the accumulation of many small failures. Google exhibits this more with each day.

    1. Re:Ugly as sin by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Yeah, they are pretty hideous. Personally, though, that doesn't matter much to me.

  10. I will be skipping this one. by Major_Disorder · · Score: 1
    I use the headphone jack all the time.
    Music while working in the garage, plug into the stereo.
    Music on the train, plug in the cheap headphones that never need an adaptor, or a charge.
    Break my headphones on the road, pick up a cheap replacement set anywhere.

    Nope, I am not ready to give up the headphone jack for something worse.

    --
    First law of people: People are generally stupid.
    1. Re: I will be skipping this one. by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      Or, just like the iPhone, simply use an adaptor if you prefer wired headphones. I only have one pair I like to use so I keep the adaptor on it, therefore it's no different than simply plugging in the headphones as before... but I just recently ended up switching to Bluetooth anyway because it really is superior in use.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    2. Re:I will be skipping this one. by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Damn you consumers and your requirements for cheap, simple and easy solutions!

      Signed,
      Apple executive
      Also, Google executive

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  11. Decent by Reid · · Score: 1

    Don't regret buying a Note 8 based on those stats.

    1. Re:Decent by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      A three digit UID? Damn, when did you move from stone tablets to cell phones? I love my Note 8 too!

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    2. Re:Decent by Reid · · Score: 1

      Hey, it was only 20 years ago, we were using etch-a-sketches not stone tablets!

    3. Re:Decent by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Makes it easier to clear your calendar.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
  12. Ballsy Move by pi_rules · · Score: 4, Informative

    Given that the original Pixel is absolutely horrible at playing back music via Bluetooth I'd call this a pretty ballsy move. Google doesn't appear to have any idea how to fix the problem on the Pixel either. Mine will start skipping during music so bad you'd think I was listening to a CD player in 1994 going down a gravel road.

    1. Re:Ballsy Move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn, I thought I purchased a pair of shitty headphone (Samsung)... all the skipping, stuttering.. and it's the Pixel? I agree with your assessment then.

    2. Re:Ballsy Move by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      Given that the original Pixel is absolutely horrible at playing back music via Bluetooth I'd call this a pretty ballsy move.

      So it took courage to do it?

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    3. Re:Ballsy Move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There you are spamming amazon affiliate links with yet another fake account, you disgusting fat sexist tube of lard, Christopher Dale Reimer!

      You can be sure I will be watching this fake account too. I know this is you because you told me you were working on your freepass 11 file server and you are so dumb that you can't even masquerade yourself properly.

      Now, I told you I was out of meds last week and you didn't even care to contact me you lazy fucker.

      How many times do I have to express the emergency of the situation??????

      The python click script you wrote for my pheromone revenue stream web site suddenly stopped to work!!!!!!

      You fucking incompetent python script writer!!!

      When it works, I get 4000+ clicks a day on my pheromone revenue stream web site but only 5 or 6 without it!!!!

      Now, it seems like you dont care and that you have abandoned me you heartless fucking pig!

      Bonus:
      Here is a story that creimer told me when convincing me what a hard life he had:

      The tree was him and the tree knot was his butt hole!

      So, his uncle packed his fat ass with lard and with his cock! Not that it makes much of a difference but anyway, there it is!

      Signed:
      The girl that used to love you and now hates you, burn in hell where you belong you sexist pig!

    4. Re:Ballsy Move by Luthair · · Score: 1

      Are you sure its the Pixel not the speaker? The only time my Nexus 6p chops is with an inexpensive aftermarket car stereo, and even then usually when its in the far pocket with my arm resting on it.

    5. Re:Ballsy Move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly! We, at Special Education for the Santa Clara County Office of Education, couldn't agree more with you!

      For the valuable /. users that might already have read the following, please note that there is an important update.

      IMPORTANT UPDATE:
      Special Education for the Santa Clara County Office of Education has invested money to buy Chris a new chair:
      http://www.keynamics.com/image...

      Information about Christopher Dale Reimer and autistic people:

      Autistic people have obsessions about things normal people don't care. For example, one of our autistic patient went haywire when he realized that there was a penny missing in his pocket change.

      To calm him down, one of our educator pretended to have found it on the floor and gave a penny to him.

      The autistic patient condition went even worse because he realized it wasn't the same penny!

      Chris has an obsession with budgeting every penny. He doesn't understand that most people do not budget to the penny and have a flexible amount they allow for miscellaneous items.

      I am Nancy Guerrero and I am Director of Special Education for the Santa Clara County Office of Education. We use Chris' (a.k.a. creimer,cdreimer) picture in our document because he is the hardest case we have ever had to handle:
      http://www.sccoe.org/depts/stu...

      Our artists were inspired by the low carb diet that Christopher follows scrupulously for the small lunch box and by the picture linked below for the rest. I am sure that you will notice the similarities such as the bump on the side of his chest and more:
      https://ibb.co/gVad65

      Please be easy on Christopher although, I am aware that some of our staff handling Chris post joke comments here and obvoiusly, the Santa Clara County Office of Education disapprove that behavior vehemently:
      https://school.discoveryeducat...

      But it isn't Chris' fault if he is the way he is. We do the best we can do with him and he is partially integrated into society. We try to cure his abnormal need for attention but he is kind of stubborn and won't listen to anybody.

      Thank You dear users,
      -Nancy Guerrero

    6. Re:Ballsy Move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      C.D. Reimer is a renowned Slashdot collaborator, as he puts it himself; "Because of the quality of my posts and my article submissions, I'm a highly rated commentator and moderator."

      But does anybody ever wondered what "C.D." stands for? Well, it stands for Creimy Dumpty of course!

      Creimy Dumpty sat on the wall,
      Creimy Dumpty had a great fall.
      All the king's horses
      And all the king's men
      Couldn't put Creimy Dumpty
      Together again.

      Creimy's siblings video and theme song, very realistic, especially the pants, just like Creimy's:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      Creimy's real pictures:
      Before the sex change:
      https://ibb.co/cc7Ddw
      After the sex change:
      https://ibb.co/gVad65

      Creimy's "enterprise-level" chair, he talks about it all the time on slashdot:
      http://www.keynamics.com/image...

      Creimy's head, while his supervisor was talking to him, not with him, since it is impossible to do with Creimy:
      https://school.discoveryeducat...

      Creimy acting in educational resource document, he actually confirmed himself on Slashdot that he was handled by Special Education for the Santa Clara County Office of Education! He is really a king Dumpty!:
      http://www.sccoe.org/depts/stu...

    7. Re:Ballsy Move by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Should be okay, Pixel supports AptX as far as I know.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    8. Re:Ballsy Move by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Pixel 2 costs more, too...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    9. Re:Ballsy Move by LoneBoco · · Score: 1

      There have been many articles and user complaints about poor bluetooth quality on the Pixel phones. Although it might appear to be a hardware problem instead of a software problem (interference with the WiFi module).

    10. Re:Ballsy Move by sl3xd · · Score: 1

      AptX only matters if:

      - Your entire device chain supports AptX
      - You actually buy into AptX having higher quality because "more bits".

      AptX is Qualcomm's effort at licensing out a 1980's-era codec, and sells "more bits is better" (much like $1,000 "audiophile" optical cables, magic rocks, and so on.) Honestly, AptX is decades older (and less sophisticated) than Bluetooth's SBC.

      --
      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
    11. Re:Ballsy Move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it was a 97 CD player youd have buffered playback, so... even CD player manufacturers tried to fix the issue. Google? Nahhh.

    12. Re:Ballsy Move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a Pixel owner who recently linked the Bluetooth to my (6 year old) car before a 16 hour road trip, I can tell you that my phone has no problems playing back music via Bluetooth. Nor does it have problems playing back on my cheap ass bluetooth ear buds I bought off eBay for when I go running.

      I know the Pixel has a history of Bluetooth audio problems, whether it be hardware or software. In my particular use cases however, it has worked flawlessly.

      Your mileage has varied...

      And I still want a headphone jack on my phone.

    13. Re:Ballsy Move by mesterha · · Score: 1

      My nexus 6 started skipping when I upgraded to nougat. Maybe it's the OS?

      --

      Chris Mesterharm
    14. Re:Ballsy Move by pi_rules · · Score: 1

      It occurred in the 7.x series and in the latest 8.0 releases that came out. It's not a new problem and resolutions do not appear to be coming.

    15. Re:Ballsy Move by pi_rules · · Score: 1

      I've seen the problem on two BT headsets and also on my BT car stereo. I don't see it very often on the car stereo probably because I only ever drive 20-30 minutes at a time. I suspect the problem is related to the hardware heating up and throwing something off. As another poster in this thread has said the problem seems to be related to WiFi being on too, and I suspect the same chip handles WiFi and BT. Just a guess. If it's a heat problem then an active WiFi connection and BT could be heating it up sooner or higher. For me it doesn't help one whit if I turn WiFi off though. I think that's because I generally use my BT connection in a belly pouch when running or cycling where the thing will get hotter than normal.

    16. Re:Ballsy Move by wkwilley2 · · Score: 1

      Mine did this even with Marshmallow, just depended on the angle and any obstructions.

      I use mine with a cheap pair of Bluetooth headphones for mowing the lawn, IMO no discernible difference from 6 to 7.

      Though, I still love my Nexus 6, I will continue to use it until something better comes along, and the Pixel 2 ain't it.

      --
      Have you ever fallen asleep at the keybhanusdiog?
    17. Re:Ballsy Move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should contact Google and get a replacement. My Pixel has no issues whatsoever with BT, and nobody I know with one has had issues.

  13. Included adapter by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

    Use your existing analog headphones with the included adapter ...

    Which is a separate Bluetooth-enabled feature phone, with a headphone jack.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  14. Won't be buying these by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know what phones I won't be buying

  15. Solution: Phone cases with 3.5 mm jacks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They already exist. In fact, I don't know why the marketing department decide to sell it as "killing off the 3.5 mm jack" when "the jack is moving to a common accessory" would have prevented most complaints/arguments.

  16. Only 4GB RAM? by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 2

    For a device that starts at $600+, I expect a minimum of 6GB RAM. You get 4GB in devices in the $200 ballpark. Plus, these Pixel phones do not take SD cards. Thanks but, no, thanks.

    1. Re:Only 4GB RAM? by Luthair · · Score: 1

      What are you doing that needs more 4gb of RAM exactly? With 3gb I don't see any issues from swapping.

    2. Re:Only 4GB RAM? by guacamole · · Score: 1

      More memory is about headroom for future updates.

      Just wait for Android Oreo to arrive. The Nexus 5X with 2GB RAM was barely usable running Nougat, but after the September update it can't keep any apps in memory at all. So I would assume, with 8.0, 3GB is now the babre minimum you need, and 4GB is the comfortable amount of RAM, while +4GB is for future headroom.

    3. Re:Only 4GB RAM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't hack a Gibson with 3gb.

    4. Re:Only 4GB RAM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting. I'm running a 5X, with all updates installed, and have not noticed such a drastic performance hit as you describe.

    5. Re:Only 4GB RAM? by Luthair · · Score: 1

      Oreo runs fine on the Nexus 6P. I did find Nougat slow on the Nexus 9 though which is 2gb.

      There is a point of diminishing returns, on the PC for day-to-day use RAM requirements definitely stalled out.

    6. Re:Only 4GB RAM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bought a Sony Xperia XA Ultra for about $320 and I have to say, I couldn't be happier.
      It's got dual SIM car slots (handy for me because I am in and out of my home country a fair bit) and although it only came with 16GB onboard, it accepts a 128GB SD card I got a cheaper 64 GB SD card for abput $50 and its working great. It has a headphone jack, so I can load it up with a few netflix movie downloads and watch them on flights with headphones, while keeping the phone charging via USB chage port, so I get to my destination with a fully charged phone.
      A phone without a headphone jack would be useless for this.

      I bought this phone after I accidentally knocked my Galaxy S7 Edge off a 60cm high bedside table onto tiles, smashing both the back aluminium looking (but really glass) panel, as well as cracking the front corner glass - despite the screen protector I had bought for it. The S7 edge was a nice phone too but the curved edged drove me nuts when trying to check emails - my fingers holding the phone edges would constantly end up opening emails etc. accidentally because of the curved edges.
      Curved edges on a phone suck, for this reason. Seems more of a gimmick rather than a useful feature, and it also seems to have resulted in making for a very fragile phone.

      I have also dropped my Sony phone a couple of times now, but luckily so far (when pulling my wallet out f my pocket - phone came out too and dropped to the ground. it hasn't suffered any damage so far,

      Summary: for 320 you can still get a pretty good phone with great features and a big screen, 8MP camera and decent battery life - though being Sony, the warranty will suck ( not international)

         

  17. Misses the REAL story by DickBreath · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The lack of a headphone jack gets all the attention. I think Google left off the headphone jack as a distraction. The real story is that Clips camera. It decides when to take pictures of what is "interesting"? How is that done? Does everything potentially interesting get streamed to the mother ship so that Google's algorithm can determine if it is "interesting" or not? And what exactly is the definition of "interesting"?

    Maybe Google has two different "interesting" filters. One that the consumer sees the results of. And one that Google privately keeps the results of.

    But not to worry. It's all okay. Google says it's not evil. And you can trust Google to tell you the truth. Because Google is not evil. I know Google is not evil because Google says so. And I can trust Google's statement because Google is not evil.

    --

    I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    1. Re:Misses the REAL story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How is that done? Does everything potentially interesting get streamed to the mother ship so that Google's algorithm can determine if it is "interesting" or not?

      The camera has no Internet connection. The AI stuff happens on board, and seems to key in on often-seen faces.

    2. Re:Misses the REAL story by Albanach · · Score: 3, Informative

      But not to worry. It's all okay. Google says it's not evil.

      That's a pretty serious amount of wild speculation from someone that didn't watch the launch or read any of the followup press articles. The camera does the AI on-board. In fact that was a theme of the presentation - music detection also being performed on board the new pixel.

      I'm not sure if Google has rediscovered privacy, if this is a reflection of more powerful mobile processors now being capable of this type of workload, or a bit of both.

    3. Re:Misses the REAL story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you know the AI all happens onboard? Because Google told you? Chripes you turd, get a grip already.

    4. Re:Misses the REAL story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't need to have an internet connection. It can tuck away all kinds of "interesting" nuggets until an internet connection becomes available.

    5. Re:Misses the REAL story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't need to have an internet connection. It can tuck away all kinds of "interesting" nuggets until an internet connection becomes available.

      It never has an Internet connection.

    6. Re:Misses the REAL story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you know the AI all happens onboard?

      I know the AI happens on board because the thing WORKS WITHOUT AN INTERNET CONNECTION.

      Or are you suggesting that Google have hidden an eSIM in every camera, along with a cellular modem and set up a hidden deal with wireless carriers on every continent so secretly transfer gazillions of minutes long home movies back to the mothership for processing?

    7. Re:Misses the REAL story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Total nonsense.

      What is done on board is pre-computation of detection of image or sound "features", which in AI refers to component sub-patterns, which are then sent to the mothership for recognition and cataloging.

      Unless you assert that the phone carries with it a database of hundreds of millions of songs and a full-blown image recognition AI with its own massive database of image patterns, all running in the background without draining the battery in 20 minutes flat.

      No, the computational power advances on the mobile CPUs are nowhere near the requirements of such AI tasks, its all done in the server farms at Google data centers, like it always had been. All that is happening is that the telescreen can now pre-process the stuff for much better efficiency, allowing the capture of images and sound to be performed near continuously.

    8. Re:Misses the REAL story by Albanach · · Score: 1

      OK, so now explain how it achieves all transfer to and from the mothership that without a friggin internet connection?

    9. Re:Misses the REAL story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously it does not. Like the new Google translation headphones it assumes 24/7 Internet connection. It cannot function without it.

      Some limited functions can be done off-line, based on limited database of features and cached contents.

    10. Re:Misses the REAL story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are confused.

      The song recognition feature of the new phone cannot operate without internet connection. Its impossible since songs change all the time and their number is astronomical. Smallest, most compressed databases are many gigabytes in size, thus are very large compared to the OS and device storage sizes.

      The "interesting" images camera feature can operate off-line, in a limited fashion, based on the local database of "trigger features" but its effectiveness without backing by server farms is at this point highly controversial and constant exchange of gathered images for training data is expected to be pretty much required via various means.

      Note that all the devices, including the Google Camera, are expected to have very frequent internet connectivity, even if indirectly through another device and require Google Account to setup and operate.

  18. I won't touch those Google phones.... by bogaboga · · Score: 1

    ...Even with a 10ft pole.

    And that because of one reason: The lack of that 3.5mm headphone jack.

    1. Re:I won't touch those Google phones.... by PoopJuggler · · Score: 1

      I'll bet you don't touch any modern computer either due to their lack of MFM hard drive interfaces and AUI ethernet, right? You chuckleheads need to get over the fucken headphone jack thing, because in a few years they won't exist anywhere.

    2. Re:I won't touch those Google phones.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You chuckleheads need to get over the fucken headphone jack thing, because in a few years they won't exist anywhere.

      The 3.5mm headphone jack will still be around 20 years from now in any device that isn't marketed to consumers as the latest marketing wank device. You keep on enjoying charging those batteries though!

    3. Re:I won't touch those Google phones.... by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      You chuckleheads need to get over the fucken headphone jack thing, because in a few years they won't exist anywhere.

      Hopefully, in the next few years there will be an adequate replacement for it. When there is, I won't care that there's no headphone jack.

      But I'm honestly curious -- why do you care whether or not people "get over" the jack?

    4. Re:I won't touch those Google phones.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The headphones still need drivers connected to a wire. Apparently you think building a DAC into shitty Beats headsets is somehow going to be better.

  19. and $15-$20/meg roaming! by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    and $15-$20/meg roaming!

    1. Re:and $15-$20/meg roaming! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Not with Google Fi. $10/gig home or abroad.

  20. Just two pixels by goombah99 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Even my flip phone had a screen with more than 2 pixels. I don't care if they are XL sized pixels. You can;t even write an ascii charcter with that. let me know when they reach VGA quality

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  21. And the very next article at the link... by cahuenga · · Score: 1

    Google unveils $159 Pixel Buds, its answer to Apple AirPods

    How did I already know that?

  22. An adapter won't do. by edgedmurasame · · Score: 1

    They'd have to include a sleeve that includes the jack in a more proper place, or sell it at nominal cost.

    --
    "Forget the engineers." -Carly Fiorina, briber of MIT Technology Review.
  23. It's not going to happen by H3lldr0p · · Score: 1

    So there's a bit of background first.

    Have you noticed that Apple has stopped trying to remove all of the Google related things from them? Apple made their version of a map app, started poorly but got better and ultimately didn't matter. Google was and remains so far ahead that catching up isn't feasible w/o expending a supreme amount of resources. It didn't matter what Apple tried. Unverifying the app only alienated their customer base. Dropping it from the store only saw articles on how to sideload it proliferate. And making it run poorly in the native web browser saw Chrome for iOS get downloaded more. Apple lost that battle.

    This resulted in a shift of strategy for Android. No longer did Google need it to run everywhere in order for people to get a taste, it now needed to run well. At first, Google tried to get manufacturers on board with this plan. High-end, premium experience phones were pushed. However, Google ran face first into the carrier profit centers, something the handset makers were already well aligned with. Google could care less how often you switch and I would guess they'd rather you'd keep the same phone for several years since it makes it all the easier to track and data-mine you. But the carriers and handset makers are not Google. Not yet, anyways.

    So instead of backing off, Google went whole hog. As a company they only want the best experience for much the same reason as Apple does. It makes them look good. It makes people want to stick around.

    Having a mid-price phone is the choice of people without the same sort of brand loyalty they're looking to groom. Yes, groom is the correct term here. Right now, Google is all about creating a digital monopoly. To get there, they need people to stick with them and keep sticking with them well past the point it makes sense to.

    If you're looking for options, look elsewhere. The smartphones are heading for stagnation.

    1. Re:It's not going to happen by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      And making it run poorly in the native web browser saw Chrome for iOS get downloaded more.

      I thought Chrome for iOS still used Apple's built-in WebKit?

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    2. Re:It's not going to happen by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure what you're talking about. Apple Maps remains the highest used map application on iOS. The power of defaults is enormous, which is why both Google and Apple want to have the default app on your phone. Google pays Apple $3 billion/yr to be the favoured search app for Siri. Sideloading isn't really a thing on iOS devices. WebKit is the MANDATORY rendering engine for all iOS web rendering; Chrome is literally just chrome around WebKit.

      Your inputs are so bad that there's no way to come to any reliable conclusions about what either company is doing.

      Google LOVES Apple, make no mistake. They pay $3 billion/year to be the default search engine because they make more money back from Apple users than they pay. Google isn't dumb. More money is spent on Apple mobile devices than on Android mobile devices. Apple devices inherently imply a certain amount of disposable income, on average.

      And frankly, Google doesn't care one way or the other and hasn't for YEARS. They're not competing with Apple, they're competing with Samsung. Google's goal is to be in everyone's pocket, regardless of OS, and Android is just *leverage*. The original strategy was to make sure Microsoft didn't end up with a mobile monopoly, but they ended up using the strategy against Apple instead. Now Google wants to make devices so they have leverage over Samsung, since Samsung is trying to build its own services, like Bixby.

      Google has ALWAYS wanted the best experience for people because network effects feed back on themselves and are multiplicative. Google needs data to be good, and once they get data, they get better, and because they're better, more people use them, so they use the data to be better some more. Literally zero of this is new; this is just the natural extension of the system we've lived in for the last decade.

  24. I get why Apple does it, but why Google? by Kartu · · Score: 1

    Apple is going to make money on forced accessories, what on fucking planet earth is motivation for google????

    1. Re:I get why Apple does it, but why Google? by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1

      well Google can't be seen as cowards now, can they? They too must show courage!

      oh and I have a new company motto for them: Don't be cowardly

    2. Re:I get why Apple does it, but why Google? by sl3xd · · Score: 1

      Google (and Samsung, LG, and most others) have the same motivation Apple had:

      * They can collect device usage metrics, and know exactly how much time people spend listening on wired vs wireless devices
      * They therefore have hard numbers for many customers use a headphone jack, and how often
      * They took the data and made a cost/benefit decision for which is better: using the limited space inside the case for a DAC, Amplifier, and headphone jack, or use the space for a bigger CPU, battery, etc.

      At the end of the day, space inside a phone is premium real estate, and the $0.50-0.75 headphone jack takes a lot of it. If only half of your users use of the jack, then you've wasted both the space and the part.

      --
      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
    3. Re:I get why Apple does it, but why Google? by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      If only half of your users use of the jack, then you've wasted both the space and the part.

      ... and half of your user base.

    4. Re:I get why Apple does it, but why Google? by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Oops, I meant "... and retained that half of your user base".

    5. Re: I get why Apple does it, but why Google? by sl3xd · · Score: 1

      Quite clearly, that hasnâ(TM)t proven to be a problem for Apple, Samsung, Essential, or LG

      Why should Google expect anything different?

      The ability to use wired headphones remains in all cases, and the (often included) dongles havenâ(TM)t proven to be a problem to hundreds of millions of users.

      And I say that as a guy who has been using one of the dongles for his headphones for at lease six months now.

      --
      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
    6. Re: I get why Apple does it, but why Google? by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      I was just using your figure that "half of users don't use the jack". As if the other half is unimportant.

      The ability to use wired headphones remains in all cases, and the (often included) dongles haven't proven to be a problem to hundreds of millions of users.

      We sorta have to ignore Apple's experience, because their user base is atypical (they tend to have an emotional connection to Apple that forgives a lot of sins). But perhaps you're right, most people will deal with this. Still, it will be hard to know how many sales Google will lose because people will buy a phone that has a jack instead, so this is all pretty much wild speculation all around.

      Personally, the lack of a jack is a huge deal because it's a real reduction on functionality. I've not found a bluetooth audio solution that provides sound quality that is as good, and the dongles are a poor workaround -- better than nothing, but it's still a reduction of the quality of the experience.

      I'm probably 3 years or so away from replacing my current phone, so I only have one last hope: that by the time I need to buy a new one, the wireless audio solutions will actually be good by that time, or that there are still adequately powerful phones that have a headphone jack.

      I'd really hate to have to start carrying around a second device to play music. Or third, given that it seems inevitable that removable batteries are going away and I'll have to carry around a damned power bank.

      All of these advances are driving us back to the bad old days when we had to carry multiple devices and a bag of cables around all the time.

    7. Re: I get why Apple does it, but why Google? by sl3xd · · Score: 1

      Still, it will be hard to know how many sales Google will lose because people will buy a phone that has a jack instead, so this is all pretty much wild speculation all around.

      Every major competitor to Google I can think of has already dumped the headphone jack, itâ(TM)s hard to see it as a competitive loss to Google. That ship has not only sailed, but itâ(TM)s reached its destination and unloaded its cargo.

      New phones (including Appleâ(TM)s) output standard USB audio and metadata.

      Instead of having special connectors for laptop power supplies, keyboards, mice, headphones, speakers, disk drives, game and other HID devices... they are all converging to use USB.

      And Iâ(TM)m OK with that standardization

      --
      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
    8. Re:I get why Apple does it, but why Google? by sd4f · · Score: 1

      I would hazard a guess that far fewer people use something like the NFC, yet, it's included in the phone.

    9. Re: I get why Apple does it, but why Google? by sl3xd · · Score: 1

      Are you kidding?

      NFC is typically built in to the same chip as WiFi & Bluetooth. Thereâ(TM)s no âoeextra partâ taking up space, and the price delta is less than a penny. (One advantage of a modern 14 nm process is that a few million transistors are negligible in cost and size)

      A headphone jack takes up half a cubic centimeter, and will never get smaller. Connectors are never cheap. ($0.50 in lots of 200k for a 3.5mm jack)

      The fact is that every major phone manufacturer has dropped the headphone jack like a hot potato - with Lenovo/Motorola announcing phones without a jack even before Apple did, and others within weeks of Appleâ(TM)s announcement.

      Much like PS/2 peripherals, the world is shifting from the old, single purpose interconnect and moving to USB. Also like PS/2, if you want to use the old interface, you get to use a dongle.

      Itâ(TM)s not even remotely unprecedented in consumer electronics. VGA and the other analog video standards are all but gone now. Itâ(TM)s rare to find anything in a store that can use Composite video, to say nothing for component video or S-Video.

      --
      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
    10. Re: I get why Apple does it, but why Google? by sd4f · · Score: 1

      There are other pieces necessary, the antenna being one. This also dictates the case design as obviously metal backed phones will have a problem. Additionally I haven't the slightest clue about mobile phone circuit layout, but I would also presume that having the loudspeaker and earpiece speaker, the DAC at least will have to be there, and there's a good chance that the amps could also be integrated to have multiple outputs for the various channels.

      Now to the crux of your comment, so basically removing the jack is a retrograde step for the user as the only reason the manufacturers are ditching it is to save costs. I suspected this, but bottom line is, users suffer. None of the phones have gotten any cheaper anyway. If anything, the price points of the stagnant flagship sector just keep getting dearer.

    11. Re: I get why Apple does it, but why Google? by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Every major competitor to Google I can think of has already dumped the headphone jack

      And yet, there are still numerous smartphones that have them. Until there's an adequate replacement for the jack, I'll be buying one of those, or buying a used, older model.

      Again, I don't mind the idea of losing the jack. My problem is that the current replacements for the jack suck. When that's no longer true, I'll be on board with it.

    12. Re: I get why Apple does it, but why Google? by sl3xd · · Score: 1

      Saving cost isnâ(TM)t the issue - itâ(TM)s the volume of space a headphone jack occupies, which is huge for the interior of a phone. The thinking all manufacturers are following is: we get more space if we can put the audio through the USB port. They do it already (I play audio from my phone to my car via USB).

      An NFC antenna is easy: a trace on the pcboard is enough. The iPhone 6â(TM)s (first google hit because Iâ(TM)m lazy) is a piece of ribbon Cable - requiring very little internal volume.

      Itâ(TM)s all about real estate.

      --
      -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
    13. Re:I get why Apple does it, but why Google? by kbdd · · Score: 1
      1) device metrics: this is ridiculous. The phone knows when the headphone is plugged in, no need for a bluetooth device.

      2) Room for a jack: one guy actually installed a headphone jack inside an iPhone 7 without sacrificing anything. He found the room for it inside an existing phone. It even looks good. I know, it sounds unbelievable and it is. Google it for his story. If a guy in his apartment can do it, I am sure that Apple with a few spare million dollars could do it if they wanted.

      My guess is that it is the same thing with Google. They are running out of ideas about what to do with a phone to make it sound new, so they come up with that stuff.

  25. If you want me to use a bluetooth earpiece, then.. by mark-t · · Score: 2

    ... make one that magnetically docks onto the phone (ergonomically, not like the Apple Pencil shit that sticks out of the device by several inches), and which charges whenever the phone itself is being charged so that I never have to worry about charging the earpiece separately.

  26. BT is BAD in crowded spaces by comrade.putin · · Score: 1

    Anyone try to listen to Bluetooth headphones in a crowded place?
    My BT headphones will start chopping sometimes in subway or at crowded intersections. I'm assuming the airwaves will get more and more saturated as adoption increases.
    Must be nice in spacious region of Silicon Valley, but us urbanites will be first to actually suffer.

    1. Re:BT is BAD in crowded spaces by sd4f · · Score: 1

      I wondered about this. Radio noise, surely at some point becomes a problem. The stupidity behind this forced step is, at some point all audio has to revert back to analogue anyway, it just doesn't make sense why they're getting rid of the plug. If one could tangibly see some sort of major benefit of its removal, then fair enough, but the largely called for features such as better battery life, are continually ignored, and these phones without the plug have generally cost more than the phones they've replaced, so there's no advantage to the consumer.

      About the only reason I can think of is, designing good quality audio gear in a condensed device like a phone may create a lot of restrictions in order to isolate noise and interference feeding into the audio output. Eliminating it may make it easier to design a board layout. And this assumes that the audio circuitry to drive the speakerphone are ignored since no one expects high fidelity out of that. With that said, though, the phones are no cheaper, so there's no advantage to the consumer.

    2. Re:BT is BAD in crowded spaces by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The audio gear in the phone can't be eliminated since analog output is needed anyway - it goes either into the dongle or into the cheap ear buds / ear phones.
      Regarding what you call the speakerphone, you also need it to sound decent. It's expected to have audible sound on a high end or even $200 phone, surely. People use the built-in speaker(s) sometimes, like they also use laptop built-in speakers sometimes. I don't know how many use the built-in speakers as their main audio device (e.g., for games?), there may be such a demographics.

      Eliminate analog output : you'll have to provide a dongle with DAC and earphones with DAC in the box. You did eliminate an electric path in the phone but added some at great cost to the peripherals. Whether you include these two peripherals or not you will also piss off customers who plug an analog dongle or earphones in and don't get sound working.

  27. Apple Maps already passed Google Maps by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Sorry, but Apple Maps is superior to Google Maps now, and has been for a while. I'm curious in what way you consider it to be way beyond what Apple offers...

    Apple Maps is more readable, and still give better directions (though Google has tried to keep up there).

    The only area Google still leads in is Street View, but that's not as necessary as good directions.

    However you are right that Apple is still working happily with Google in some areas still - especially search.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Apple Maps already passed Google Maps by swb · · Score: 1

      I like aspects of its user interface, but it still can't find places by name for shit. I can put place names into Google Maps and it always finds what I'm looking for. Most of the time Apple Maps doesn't find anything or it finds something totally wrong, far away.

    2. Re: Apple Maps already passed Google Maps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where the hell do you live? Tim Cook's asshole?

      Apple Maps is entirely useless. The map data they have is old and incomplete. The road I live on (and have lived on since before the iPhone was ever announced) does not exist according to Apple Maps. Apple draws another road near me as going straight through someone's house.

      There is no way to submit updated information for this, so the bad maps just persist.

      Search is useless in Apple Maps. I've searched for an address that was five blocks away and Apple gave me locations on another continent.

      Apple only just (last month!) added lane data to their maps. So far the only times I've triggered it, it was wrong. The majority of times it just doesn't display any lane data whatsoever.

      Google Maps remains the gold standard for phone-based maps. Period.

    3. Re:Apple Maps already passed Google Maps by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      I'm curious in what way you consider it to be way beyond what Apple offers...

      Here's one.

      For traffic density, Google uses the same color-coding (green, yellow, red, black) that virtually every other traffic display system uses (and no, Google didn't invent it - the scheme has been around for as long as the web has existed). It's easy to see, at a glance, how busy traffic is ahead.

      Apple, for some reason, uses a bizarre assortment of red dots, dashes, and lines for this purpose. And, when the traffic gets really bad, the red gets slightly darker. It's worthless at a glance, and still close to worthless even when you have the luxury of staring at it for a few minutes.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    4. Re:Apple Maps already passed Google Maps by kbdd · · Score: 1
      This is very clearly an opinion that is not universally shared.

      My personal experience, borne of having an iPhone and an Android phone in the car on a regular basis is that the turn by turn directions are consistently better on Android.

      If there are areas where Apple maps are superior, I have not found them.

  28. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How original of them. I see they have AirPods, er, *Google* pods, now too. They are a sad, sad excuse for a technology company. :/

  29. Apple leads the world! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple leads the world in defective-by-design crippled devices! The iPhone XI, (or the X+, or the XX, or the XXX or whatever stupid, confusing name they'll give the iPhone after the X) or iPhone Phone Edition, maybe, will surely also have some other important feature removed...

    I'm guessing for the next generation of iPhone, it will be so slim you'll be able to put it in your wallet, which will be a good place to keep it since it won't have A DISPLAY!

    Instead, Apple will sell Bluetooth displays that LINK to your iPhone much the way their stupid, overpriced earIpods or whatever, do today. When asked why they would do something so colossally stupid, the dick in charge will say, "Resilience" or give some other inappropriate, and equally idiotic response.

    Or maybe he'll say, "Courage +." Or maybe "Courage ][." Or perhaps "Courage //e"

    And the display shall be unveiled and hailed as a giant leap forward in design bravery, they'll call it "iDisplay."

    That's right... they'll split what used to be a single iPhone, like the venerable old 5S, into a bunch of easy to lose parts that all need to be charged separately, and will only be SOLD separately; the iPhone will fit it your wallet, the screen COULD but you'll carry that part around in your hip pocket, or perhaps have it strapped to your wrist... (OHHHH...! maybe the iWatch in the future will act as the iPhone's SCREEN!) and be able to interface with IT without needing the rest of the phone, allowing IT to be even THINNER... the screen will have its own battery, of course, and to charge all these things, they'll sell a little Apple Charge Tower or something, which will have SLOTS to insert all your now wirelessly charging (but of course, they'll only charge fully or quickly on Apple's proprietary charger which will use Apple's soon-to-be-patented Pentalobe iMagnetism to convey iEnergy, naturally,) and will look like one of those Aluminum Wallets they tried to sell on TV that basically looked like a fat version of a makeup compact, but held all your 50 credit cards which is funny since most people don't HAVE 50 different cards... but anyway.

    So why I'm talking about Apple and their assholeism in an article about Google? Because...

    Google. Will. Follow. SUIT!

    Google is going to pull the same basic shit. Watch.
     

  30. Pixel 1 XL? by green+is+the+enemy · · Score: 1

    Does it make sense to buy the Pixel 1 XL 128GB now that it has come down in price? It still comes with the headphone jack and Google's OS updates. The Pixel 2's lack of headphone jack is a no-go for me. The USB-C headphone adapter is too fragile. Hunting for good sounding Bluetooth earbuds is unappealing to me (plus expensive, plus the battery charging and relatively quick failure..).

    1. Re:Pixel 1 XL? by kcwebmonkey · · Score: 1

      Where do you see the price drop for Pixel 1?

    2. Re:Pixel 1 XL? by green+is+the+enemy · · Score: 1

      The Pixel XL 128 GB is now listed at $769.00 on the Google store. It was at least $100 more a week ago. I'm not considering third party sellers.

  31. Well that was easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My current Nexus phone is starting crack a little and such, and I was just thinking whether I should get a new one (A pixel) or something else.

    The lack of headphone jack has made that really an easy decision for me, no pixel for me.

  32. Assistant by bradley13 · · Score: 1

    What I don't get is the emphasis on the Google Assistant. Always available, even when the phone is locked.

    Does anyone care? I have never heard anyone using it. It's one of the first things I disable. Why is this supposed to be a feature?

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    1. Re:Assistant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's only a feature until Google gets the stats that tell them most people disable it. Then it will pass into the setting sun to be replaced by some new feature.

    2. Re: Assistant by Brockmire · · Score: 0

      Hands free while driving is my primary need for using while locked. I've got like 4 smart unlocks enabled, but still the fucker locks frequently throughout the day. When people ask these obvious questions, they look really dumb. Seriously, use your fucking brain.

    3. Re: Assistant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't remember 5.25" disks but you're old enough to drive?

    4. Re:Assistant by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Does anyone care? I have never heard anyone using it.

      I don't, but some people clearly do.

  33. Re:Definition of Courage by lukpac · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As I've said before, it did take Courage take take on all the initial Nerd Rage generated by removing an ancient obsolete port that the Nerd Hipsters all love and want to keep forever.

    Even when we are beings of pure energy they will manifest a physical ear and one audio jack specifically so they can use a wired headset and feel superior.

    It has nothing to do with "nerd rage" and everything to do with usability. I have multiple pairs of headphones that I often use (work, office, bedroom, etc), plus I regularly plug my phone into various line-level inputs. The lack of a 1/8" jack means I would either have to 1) always carry a dongle around with my phone or 2) keep a dongle with every device I *might* connect to.

    Audio exists outside the realm of cell phones, and analog audio isn't going anywhere. Removal of built-in analog out on phones is a definite hindrance.

  34. Google Maps has same issues, but worse feedback by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Apple Maps is entirely useless. The map data they have is old and incomplete.

    So does Google Maps depending on where you are.

    There is no way to submit updated information for this, so the bad maps just persist.

    Totally false, you can submit feedback about a location to Apple through Apple Maps. But unlike Google, they actually fix issues - usually within a few days, for the errors I have reported to date. I never ever heard from Google and errors never got fixed so I stopped submitting corrections.

    Apple only just (last month!) added lane data to their maps. So far the only times I've triggered it, it was wrong. The majority of times it just doesn't display any lane data whatsoever.

    Not sure where you live but I seem to remember having lane data for some time, and I've driven across much of the U.S.

    Google Maps remains the gold standard for phone-based maps. Period.

    I have it loaded on my iPhone but since Apple Maps has been better in every case I've tried, I just keep using it. "Gold standard", I do not think that term means what you think it does.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Google Maps has same issues, but worse feedback by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I've submitted corrections to Google Maps, they've been corrected in a matter of hours.

      When I've submitted corrections to Apple Maps, they've been limited to moving points of interest, and that's it. Can't tell Apple that a road is in the wrong place. Can't tell Apple that a road is missing. Can tell them that they've placed a Starbucks in a giant hole in the ground.

      As soon as Apple is interested in hearing about how their map data is missing roads or has them in the wrong place, I'll be more than happy to tell them, but right now, there is no way to do it. All you can do is submit corrections to points of interest.

      Plus I left out the coup de grace that finishes Apple Maps off once and for all: Google Maps has far better traffic data. Apple Maps will frequently route you around traffic jams that cleared up hours ago while routing you straight into traffic jams that it should have known about. Google Maps knows about road closures and detours, Apple Maps doesn't. Google Maps picks up accidents from Waze, Apple Maps doesn't. Google Maps route-finding algorithm is far superior to Apple's.

      With bad map data and horrible traffic data, it's no contest: Apple Maps is worthless. Period. Just accept it.

    2. Re:Google Maps has same issues, but worse feedback by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1

      The map data is significantly better in my city, and Apple does stuff like tell me what exit I'm looking for when I'm leaving the metro station so I can get out onto the street I want. The last time I checked Google Maps, it wasn't doing that, though that may have changed.

      There are still definitely times where Google's lead time makes a difference—they've had more time to refine some of their data, so when I look for roads in small municipalities in Quebec, Google is still more likely to get me to the right town than Apple. But I keep Google Maps unloaded unless I'm desperate. Apple's Maps is far better on an iPhone just for the iPhone integration alone. Apple did some good work getting it up to snuff.

    3. Re:Google Maps has same issues, but worse feedback by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should tell that to my friend who got so lost using Apple Maps he had to call me to send screenshots of Google Maps just the other day :)

  35. Here I come Motorola by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Traded in my Nexus 6P (busted, on Fi) for the Motorola X4 because..... IT HAS A HEADPHONE JACK. That literally decided my purchase over the Pixel. DO YOU HEAR ME GOOGLE!

  36. Nerd Rage!!! by SuperKendall · · Score: 0

    It has nothing to do with "nerd rage" and everything to do with usability. I have multiple pairs of headphones that I often use

    All of which can use a simple, and included (or extremely cheap), adaptor...

    But fuck the fact that the problem is not actually a problem at all with ten seconds of effort because you have a use case that does not apply to 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% of the population and despite having multiple expensive headphones cannot spare $10 for several adaptors - time for NERD RAGE!!!!

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Nerd Rage!!! by JohnFen · · Score: 2

      All of which can use a simple, and included (or extremely cheap), adaptor...

      Using an adapter isn't a good alternative. It would qualify as "better than nothing", I suppose, but it's still a downgrade.

    2. Re:Nerd Rage!!! by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      Here are the more use cases for which an incompatible headphone port or additional peripheral are not appropriate:

      Teenagers who regularly break, lose, and launder things.
      People who use their phones hands free while commuting by mode other than car.
      People who use their phones while engaged in a mobile task (e.g. jogging, cleaning).
      People who routinely carry more than one device from different manufacturers (e.g. phone and laptop, one of which may be work or school issue).

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    3. Re:Nerd Rage!!! by nasch · · Score: 1

      a use case that does not apply to 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% of the population

      I assure you there are more than three people in the US who plug their phones in to multiple audio outputs, and would thus be inconvenienced by the lack of a headphone jack.

    4. Re:Nerd Rage!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      All of which can use a simple, and included (or extremely cheap), adaptor...

      You didn't even read the post to which you are replying, angry-hipster-who-calls-others-angry-hipsters.

    5. Re:Nerd Rage!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When USB came up, it was an improvement because it replaced dozens of different connectors that used to prevail on desktop PCs. With USB, docking a laptop became as easy as plugging in one cable for power and one cable for data, even if you didn't have a designated docking station.

      But a phone is not a desktop PC or laptop. Having to attach a USB hub or adaptor to a phone is a step backwards.

  37. Re:Definition of Courage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Seems like you don't know who the nerd hipsters are, or you're just disingenuously projecting. Perhaps you've been called one too much for being too willing to accept whatever your tech fashion overlords dictate? If the former, here's a clue: nerd hipsters are the ones who will not hesitate to throw out what still works because the next version is out, and will spend hundreds on a record player that only has USB-C out because they are "cool" right now.

    People want a headphone jack because their headphones and PC speakers, which they like and which still work, can connect to their PC, their music player, other mobile devices, their car (AUX IN) and everything else with speakers. Furthermore, almost none of said speaker-having things have a USB-C port at all. Replacing everything to suit one new thing is grossly impractical. A complacent "dongle here dongle there" attitude quickly turns into needing to bring a bag around for everything which is also grossly impractical. USB-C ain't so universal.

    Even when every type of device has a USB-C port and not a headphone jack, suddenly every old pair of headphones is relegated to the landfill or requires the production of even more unnecessary and otherwise useless dongles which would double what gets added to landfills later.

    Then you have the unpleasant DRM/"smart" aspect of USB-C which definitely won't be used against the public when head office/government decides pirated or politically unpleasant content just won't play.

    And lastly you have the problem of it being the only port on the device, meaning you can't multi-task without yet another dongle.

    I don't know why I'm bothering to reply though. Morons refuse to listen to reason.

  38. Re:Solution: Phone cases with 3.5 mm jacks. by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

    They already exist. In fact, I don't know why the marketing department decide to sell it as "killing off the 3.5 mm jack" when "the jack is moving to a common accessory" would have prevented most complaints/arguments.

    If there were two usb-c/lightening ports, then that would be almost fine.

    But there's only one. So as with the iPhone, if you want to charge and listen at the same time with the accessories available the last time I went into an Apple store, you need two accessories. A port doubler (two lightenings in the case of apple) and a 3.5 jack adaptor. This is a major mess compared to what went before which was one port for charging and a jack for listening. I have yet to see a usb-c 3.5 jack+charging adaptor in any store.

    So I have a decent job, I can afford whatever phone I want and I travel on planes. I've already hit the dongle hell on my last transatlantic trip with an iPhone7+. The headphone jack has become a buy/no-buy issue for me through direct experience of living without one.

    Any change in marketing verbiage wouldn't alter this.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  39. 2 dead Nexus phones later... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... I'll definitely not be buying another Google phone, Pixel or otherwise. The Nexus 4 was working great, no problems at all then out of the blue it just died. I tried reflashing it, factory resetting it, to no avail. I treated the phone well, then 1.75 years into its lifespan, game over.

    I replaced this phone with a 6P, which was a really good phone until it started boot looping about 3 weeks ago. Same thing as the 4, I had no issues or warning it was on its way out, then it got stuck it boot loop land after I reset it. I cannot do a factory reset and Google (who I bought the phone from directly) told me to contact Huawei. Yeah, that isn't going to happen as I've heard they will more than likely tell you to piss off or blame Google, from what I've read in forums. This one died after about a year and 10 months of ownership.

    I treat my phones very well, both are still in great shape but apparently that isn't good enough to keep a Google branded phone from "expiring" less than two years after owning one. YMMV of course, but my recommendation is to stay far away from Google phones unless you want to buy a new phone in less than 2 years.

  40. big deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    better camera? I haven't used the cameras on my moto G in a year. People running about taking selfies is kind of weird. I use the camera to gather data then come home and do price comparisons.
    No head jack, I use bluetooth and the wasting my of bandwidth and cell time to identify the song playing, all the time ... wow that is a game changer; not. It is bad enough I can't stop Amazon music downloading pictures, now I got a second product that wants to do it too.
    There is nothing in the Pixel that is making me buy one; hell offered one I'd say no thank you. It looks like Google just reinvent a Microsoft Phone.

  41. KMA google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, that's two more phones on my list of phones that I refuse to buy.

    I fucking hate dongles and adapters. I use my phone for music like 50x more often than I use it for phone calls. In fact, get rid of the phone calling, I just want an LTE-enabled computer/media player.

  42. "Nerd Rage" isn't actually an argument by lukpac · · Score: 2

    All of which can use a simple, and included (or extremely cheap), adaptor...

    Easy enough if you only ever connect to one device. Not so easy if you connect to multiple devices, especially when they aren't yours, at your home, etc. In such cases, buying a dongle for each device is not only not feasible, it's impossible. Which leads back to carrying a dongle everywhere.

    That dongles for Apple and Android devices are not interchangeable only adds to the problem.

    1. Re:"Nerd Rage" isn't actually an argument by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      That goes double if you're not an adult. If it doesn't work.woth both a phone and a school-issued laptop over which I have no control, I'm not buying it for my kids.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
  43. Re:Definition of Courage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I still prefer not to have to charge my damn headphones when I want to use them.

  44. Re:Definition of Courage by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    I'll be absolutely thrilled to see the headphone jack go when there's a better alternative to it. The problem is that right now, there isn't.

  45. Re:Solution: Phone cases with 3.5 mm jacks. by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    when "the jack is moving to a common accessory" would have prevented most complaints/arguments.

    Maybe it would, but in my view, this is the same as "killing off the headphone jack". I don't use a case, and don't want a case. I think even a dongle would be less objectionable than being forced to use a case.

  46. Re:If you want me to use a bluetooth earpiece, the by sl3xd · · Score: 1

    Why does any sort of physical contact have to be part of the equation? Wireless charging has been a thing for several years at this point.

    There have been technologies which charge bluetooth devices wirelessly from several feet away demonstrated at CES in 2015.

    There are even people working on AA batteries which charge wirelessly.

    Even Apple is on the wireless charging bandwagon, including their AirPods which charge wirelessly.

    --
    -- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
  47. Re: Google Maps has same issues, but worse feedbac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple's Maps is far better on an iPhone just for the iPhone integration alone.

    And there you go, you just gave up the truth: Apple Maps is only "better" because they block other mapping software from integrating with the system. If Google Maps could do the same tight integration with the rest of the OS that Apple lets Apple Maps do, it would blow Apple Maps out of the water.

    But it can't, not due to any true technical limitation, but rather because Apple actively forbids it from doing so. If we lived in a world where antitrust laws mattered, iOS would be illegal.

  48. Re:Definition of Courage by swillden · · Score: 1

    The lack of a 1/8" jack means I would either have to 1) always carry a dongle around with my phone or 2) keep a dongle with every device I *might* connect to.

    Or option 3 (which can be mixed with options 1 and 2): switch to wireless. All of the stereos in my house have Chromecast Audio devices connected to them. That cost a few bucks, but it's very nice. Not only can I play music on any one of them, I have also set up a few different groups of devices. And I can do it without having to plug or unplug anything, in fact I usually do it just with my voice, without even bothering to pick up my phone. "OK Google, play <artist / album/ genre / song / whatever> on home group" starts playing throughout the entire house.

    I normally use bluetooth headphones anwyay, so that's no big deal. I have one set of high-end Sennheiser over-the-ear headphones that uses the 3.5mm jack, and I also use the audio jack in my car (my truck has BT), so I'll probably buy a pair of dongles to attach to those.

    Note that I'm not saying this is the right solution for everyone. The Chromecast Audio costs $35 from Google, $27 from Wal-mart, so buying a half dozen of them costs a little money. And lots of BT audio devices suck (BT audio does not inherently suck, BTW, it depends on the codecs used, which are negotiated between phone and headphone/speaker/whatever). But you can get good ones.

    Note that I've been using a Pixel 2 XL as my daily driver (I work for Google, on Android) for about three months now, so I've been dealing with the reality of this problem. It hasn't actually been much of a problem. I already had the Chromecasts.

    I'd say that if you're going to buy one of these phones, you're already looking at spending $700-$900 on the device, so you should just plan on spending another hundred or so on the "audio problem". Add that to the purchase price when you decide whether to buy.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  49. Which devices???? by SuperKendall · · Score: 0

    Either a device has an audio jack, or it does not... how many variants of adapters are you talking about here realistically??????????

    At this point you are looking at an adaptor for your phone, and then you can unplug the adaptor to use it with other devices.

    Also I find it amusing you claim "OH I have headphones at various fixed locations so I cannot be bothered to transport an adaptor around all over" then in the next breath claim you need a single pair of headphones to work everywhere you go. Problem is still easily solved either way by simply one-time application of adaptors.

    The problem ALREADY EXISTED in anyway for things like large stereo jacks so the iPhone (and now other devices) are adding nothing new apart from one more adaptor. Suck it up and spend $10 (or $0 if you just need one adaptor) to fix the problem forever.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  50. Skip by Thanatiel · · Score: 1

    Now let's see what the "world" will decide about the missing features.

    --
    Irrelevant news and morons using moderation to mod down what they disagree on. 2018 resolution: so long.
  51. Re:If you want me to use a bluetooth earpiece, the by mark-t · · Score: 1

    The magnetic docking would be a nice-to-have for when the earpiece is not being used, but it is conveniently available whenever needed, and by virtue of its physical contact would be less likely to get lost,

  52. Re: Definition of Courage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're obviously too slow to hear how pixellated your music sounds when it's Chromecast.

  53. I'm yet to hear from anyone, officially by Shemmie · · Score: 1

    Why kill headphone jacks? They worked beautiful, there's a colossal range of existing hardware on the market. Making it wireless means additional power considerations for the wireless headphones. .

    This is like saying "Windscreens have been transparent for way too long, so the future is 'opaque'". It gives it a futuristic feel. Yes, you do lose some basic features - but we feel this will be better in the long term. Just cus.

  54. Re:Definition of Courage by lukpac · · Score: 2

    I'd say that if you're going to buy one of these phones, you're already looking at spending $700-$900 on the device, so you should just plan on spending another hundred or so on the "audio problem". Add that to the purchase price when you decide whether to buy.

    The additional cost is annoying, but the main issue is still having to deal with adapters where they otherwise wouldn't be necessary. 1/8" plugs and jacks are ubiquitous. Lightning and USB-C, not so much. I use Bluetooth for certain things, but there are applications where it isn't a reasonable solution.

  55. Re:Definition of Courage by swillden · · Score: 1

    I'd say that if you're going to buy one of these phones, you're already looking at spending $700-$900 on the device, so you should just plan on spending another hundred or so on the "audio problem". Add that to the purchase price when you decide whether to buy.

    The additional cost is annoying, but the main issue is still having to deal with adapters where they otherwise wouldn't be necessary. 1/8" plugs and jacks are ubiquitous. Lightning and USB-C, not so much. I use Bluetooth for certain things, but there are applications where it isn't a reasonable solution.

    Well, my experience is that it hasn't been a big problem for me. YMMV, of course.

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  56. Use the included adapter by bakes · · Score: 1

    "Use your existing headphones with the included adapter."

    Oh. Unless you want to use your existing headphones and charge your phone at the same time. Sorry (not sorry).

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  57. No headphone Jack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No buy

  58. Google don't GAF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Users gunna be losers and lap it up, while slashdots gunna hate.

    These phones will sell like hotcakes to not only loyalists but the general pubs.

    They have the data to back it up, obviously.

    Progression through regression.

    It's the only way to be sure.

  59. 6 inch long and still... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    6 inch long and they still didn't have space for the audio Jack.

  60. Into the trash it goes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No headphone jack = no purchase

  61. So once you get out of mom's basement... by iamacat · · Score: 1

    You might be living in a household with another adult and multiple kids. AirPods or EarBuds or whatever are like a $700 investment at this point. Now, if someone needs to listen to stuff on a phone without disturbing others, what are the chances of them being able to find their own headphones or re-pair others to a correct cell phone?

    Of course designers of these products have never left the basement and so are not aware of the problems...

  62. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  63. New technology will always win. Eventually.. by Custard+Horse · · Score: 1

    Perhaps you are expecting too much from your smart device?

    There has already been the debate about whether the camera is as good as a DLSR (it's not) but either way, your phone camera is good enough for most people. I have a DLSR but I've taken more pictures with my phone cams in the last 5 years than I have in my whole life.

    It's the same with audio on the move - sure you can get better quality from 3.5mm but using an adapter is as good for most people and using bluetooth is acceptable for the rest. It might be appreciably better with BT 5.0 (or the same, but not likely worse).

    If you use your phone for audio at home you are not much of an audiophile or you haven't invested in the appropriate equipment to which you wish to fling your audio stream.

    New technology will always replace old and there will always be that point in time when it is difficult to let go. Now is that time for the 3.5mm socket. In a couple of years time we might be lamenting the demise of the fingerprint sensor over face recognition...

  64. What About the FM Radio? by crashdot · · Score: 1

    I have an Alcatel with an enabled FM radio chip. The audio jack is used for an antenna, usually provided by the wire on the earbuds/headphones you have plugged in. However I can also use an male-male standard audio cable in the jack as an antenna while directing the audio stream to a Bluetooth speaker.

    So the removal of the audio jack removes this radio functionality as well as all of the other uses that have been noted.

  65. Re:New technology will always win. Eventually.. by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    Perhaps you are expecting too much from your smart device?

    Is expecting that they will perform as well as older models expecting too much?

    If you use your phone for audio at home

    I don't. I have a real sound system for home use. (And I'm not an audiophile.)

    Now is that time for the 3.5mm socket.

    Not yet, it's not. Most smartphones still have them, and they will likely be available for a few years yet. If they aren't available when the time comes to replace my phone, and if nobody's come up with a system that can adequately replace the jack, then I'll have to start carrying a separate device for music. It just seems wrong that we'd have to go back to how we we did things a decade ago and start carrying multiple devices.

    In a couple of years time we might be lamenting the demise of the fingerprint sensor over face recognition...

    I won't, because those features aren't appealing to me in the first place and I don't use them.

  66. Re:Solution: Phone cases with 3.5 mm jacks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A long time ago, I had a Nokia smartphones (E72 and E6) with the following features, that I used alot:

    - (minijack) one port for audio / headset / video and audio output depending on accessory
    - (microusb) one port for USB host functionality and charging
    - (dc) one port for charging

    this allowed me to use headset or headphones and listen to songs from USB stick, while charging the phone at the same time...
    every other phone since then has had only minijack and microusb for charging...

    I want a modern android phone with 2 micro usb plugs, a microhdmi plug and a minijack plug

  67. front facing stereo speakers by kbdd · · Score: 1

    Yeah! While I hate the loss of the 3.5mm jack, it looks like that is the way of the future and it is not the end of the world since more and more BT headphones are available and quality is getting good (but prices stratospheric). It is still bad for the other types of accessories like card readers and other gadgets that have no BT equivalent. However, I really applaud the front facing stereo speakers because when you have lousy sound like all Apple products (and I know, I have an iPad with beautiful video but terrible sound due to the side facing speakers), there is no fix for it other than yet another accessory.

  68. Re: Definition of Courage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You were the guy complaining about the end of floppy disks right?

  69. Re:Definition of Courage by PoopJuggler · · Score: 1

    So what? I have a basement full of devices and connectors that aren't compatible with anything anymore, and you don't see me crying about it like a baby. Technology progresses and the world moves on. You'd better get used to it because this is going to keep happening every 5-10 years for the rest of time.

  70. Re:Definition of Courage by lukpac · · Score: 1

    So what? I have a basement full of devices and connectors that aren't compatible with anything anymore, and you don't see me crying about it like a baby. Technology progresses and the world moves on. You'd better get used to it because this is going to keep happening every 5-10 years for the rest of time.

    It's not an issue of technology progressing and moving on. Headphones and AUX inputs exist beyond the world of cell phones and aren't going anywhere. 1/8" connectors have been in use for over 60 years, and the larger 1/4" connectors have been in use since the 19th century. There's no technological progression that makes those connectors obsolete.

  71. Re: Google Maps has same issues, but worse feedbac by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Wrong, it is objectively BETTER because Apple Maps can get you out of a subway stop through the correct exit (which I used to great effect in NYC), which Google Maps absolutely cannot do. The iPhone integration is nice but that only means it's the default for apps that do not provide Google Maps support, which many do... there's nothing stopping my from using Google Maps on an iPhone just as conveniently as Apple Maps, I use Apple Maps not because of the integration but because after many tries of both pole Maps is simply better in all regards.

    By the way to report a road closed or changed or new, you can simply long-press to drop a point of interest anywhere on the map, select "report an issue" at the very bottom of the scroll area, then select "other" to mention the road is closed or changed or new. Not that hard dude.

    Possibly Google has improved update speed but I am HIGHLY doubtful, I've updated several things in Apple Maps with good results whereas like I said I had submitted a number of things to Google Maps in the past with zero feedback or changes after days.

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