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Most Amazon Prime Subscribers Say They Don't Want To Buy the Amazon Key That Lets Delivery People Into Their Homes (recode.net)
A reader shares a report: Next week, Amazon will start delivering packages straight into Americans' homes, using a smart lock and camera device called Amazon Key. But will anyone bother paying for what seems like an invasive service? Most wouldn't. About 58 percent of people who have Amazon Prime definitely would not buy Amazon Key, according to a SurveyMonkey poll done on behalf of Recode. That's only slightly less than the 61 percent of all U.S. adults who wouldn't buy the product, suggesting it's broadly unattractive, regardless of whether people are Amazon customers. Among Prime subscribers, only 5 percent said they would definitely buy Amazon Key. Of all U.S. shoppers, even less -- 4 percent -- said they would. Nearly 60 percent of the respondents have Prime subscriptions.
Just wait until this fucking thing is cracked. Amazon stock will drop 150 points in a day.
I mean, they're not generally stupid.....Do all the people at Amazon working on this "solution" freely admit strangers into their homes when they are away?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I am surprised it is only 58%. I'd have expected higher. I know that as a Prime customer I'd never consider. Hell, I'm selling my house right now and despite that they are bonded and there are huge fines for misuse I don't like the lock box with my house key in it. Not a direct comparison, I know, since almost all of my stuff is gone and I've already bought a new home. Still, I'm surprised that 42% are okay with a delivery person having even one time access to their home.
I'll bet that most people thinking this haven't even looked at how Amazon has set this up.
Camera records everything.
Deliveryman doesn't have key & can't get in any time he wants.
Customer gets a really nice wifi & phone controlled lock.
If someone really wants to break into your house, they'll just use a fucking brick. Off camera as well.
The service is setup so Amazon unlocks the doors, the delivery person puts your package down just inside the door, and he closes the door. All on camera. If he goes off camera, he's fired. It's really that simple.
Amazon has done a pretty good job of thinking this through. I know I shouldn't be surprised when people comment about shit without reading about it first, but I still am.
If people don't want it, they won't buy it. If they want to try it (like everything all the Slashdot Luddites gnash teeth about), then they will, regardless of what you say.
I like to think Amazon isn't entering into this stupidly, and has done some research about the safety. Either way, people leave keys out for dog walkers and home cleaners ALL THE TIME, this is just a tech version of that. But honestly, the market will decide on this one, and no one is making you do anything.
Those aren't my drugs, they were stashed there by a rogue Amazon employee.
But I could see this actually being a big advantage for some people. What if you live in a place where packages get stolen from your door step, or apartments where you might have a similar situation.
Should the only thing a company sells be something that most people buy? Kiss all those niche market items goodbye, then.
Put in a keyed "doggie door" to push the package through. Or use a locked front porch.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
And if the package is lost, I am not responsible for it. Best of both worlds and no need for the Amazon key.
If 42% of customers are considering it then it'll be a bigger success than I would've guessed. I'm weirded out enough by the idea of the Echo without having Amazon let people into my house, but I guess this appears to have more value than I'd have guessed. Maybe urban folks would find it useful since packages might grow legs more easily?
Remember when the police were paying Best Buy employees to inform on Geek Squad customers? I think that history shows there is no way you can grant low-lever worker bees unfettered ability to invade your privacy. Even NSA contractors who are relatively well paid, vetted, and know they're monitored can't resist the urge to abuse their power for personal benefit even when it's as petty as a few cheap laughs.
With all the consumer products that have little back doors and 'oopsies' in regards to security, how on Earth did they ever think this would work? I'm not a security researcher, but I'm willing to bet that these will be cracked open in days by various white or black hat hackers. And you know that government agencies will be prying into them in no time.
So at a price of $250, and a camera for another $120, this is a 370% 'no' item. And I get EVERYTHING on Amazon.
If it was free, AND I had some kind of room at the front of my house with another, stronger locked door on the inside, I'd consider it.
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
You have your laptop lying around and rush off to work. You come home and it's gone.
You call the cops....etc .....etc .... and accusations....and denials.....
What are you going to do? You have no proof and you did GIVE access to Amazon. You think your insurance company is gonna pay?
Let's say the Amazon employee/contractor admits to taking the laptop. Now what?
This is one big can worms that I would NEVER open.
You obviously didn't order a video camera using Alexa or you would have proof on camera.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
You obviously didn't order a video camera using Alexa or you would have proof on camera.
You have to have the Amazon camera installed to use the service. (which, for me, is another reason not to use it)
I've never locked my front door. I didn't even have a proper key for some of the places I've lived. Other than raccoons opening the back door I've never had any unwanted guests. What percentage of slashdot users live in neighbourhoods so unsafe you have to lock your house?
The key requires you to also install their video camera. So there is that. I still personally wouldn't do it. IoT has not proven secure enough to replace my locks.
I wonder if Amazon will change the default admin username/password for the system before giving it to the home user. If there's one thing we should have learned by now, the end user definitely doesn't follow best security practices.
It was marketed backwards. It should have been sold as an Amazon branded security system first and then as a way to deliver packages second. $250 for a smart lock front door and a security camera is a bit high but not too bad. Paying $250 so Amazon can drop off packages inside your home, not so much.
Calvin:Do you believe in the devil? Hobbes:I'm not sure man needs the help.
Reeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaally? Do they really not? I'm shocked, SHOCKED! Btw seriously one dog gets let out or attacks the delivery person's hand and you've got legal issues, Amazon.
+1 Beat me to this one ...
If I can install a lockbox or chest that could be remotely unlocked, I'd be all for it. Why do they need to enter my home if all they want is to securely drop off package?
I have no interest letting a delivery person into my private space.
Even if there were serious controls around the reliability and safety of these individuals, there's a big difference even between letting a virtual stranger drive me somewhere and allowing them into my potentially unsecured personal possessions. As it is I don't trust unregulated ride sharing companies, why would I trust deliveries from Amazon to access my property?
Right, different risk profile -- the delivery driver with access to your house is less likely to kill you while he's looking at his phone to find his next fare.
How is Amazon going to prevent these delivery personnel from taking five-finger discounts of my stuff, poisoning my cat, or sleeping in my bed on a break?
The service requires that you set up an Amazon cloud camera so the delivery person will have his entry recorded not only from the lock, but also by video.
where you'd leave your wet cloths after walking in from the rain/snow. There were two doors, one to get into the foyer and another to get into the house. I'm assuming that's the sort of folks this would be for.
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I am cheering this as a failure. I wouldn't trust a complete stranger in my home, especially while I am not there.
Just ship me a nice sturdy box that I can anchor to the ground or to my driveway, and the Amazon delivery person can use their code to drop the packages off in that.
Look, at one point I lived in an old apartment building in Seattle which had these little cupboards next to each door, about 3 foot by 2 foot, with another door only the apartment dweller could open.
Found out they were icebox doors so the ice wagon could deliver ice to each house but not open them. Before that, I used to deliver papers as a boy and some houses had these boxes next to the front door you could put papers in, and then close (but not open again). These were for newspapers.
Why doesn't Amazon do the same thing?
It's the "have a key to let you in" that freaks people out. Amazon just needs to allow people to put stuff and then LOCK IT after stuff is put in, and the homeowner is the only one to unlock it. Not a key to your door.
(caveat: any decently trained person can hack your doors, they're called locksmiths, and those windows you love won't stop squat)
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Put your unsold lock stock on steel boxes in a size slightly larger than your large delivery box, with bolt wings to bolt onto the side of the house. They'll fly off the shelves, with all the worries about doorstep package theft.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
let's see, you let Amazon do the following: Record what is in your home Record when you are home Unlock your door And remember folks, if amazon can access it, so can any hacker from ANYWHERE in the world. The "unbreakable" system is simple an invitation for some smart dude to break it. And if enough people's eggs are in the one basket, then it because a target for HUNDREDS of smart people looking to break it. No one who values the safety of their home (especially homes with children) would allow this. I consider Amazon a bit irresponsible for even offering this. I guess when anyone gets too big, profit overrides public responsibility. If someone is going to spy on me or steal from me, I'm at least going to make them come to my home, leave the evidence of the crime and be recorded by MY cameras to be used later in court. Not have POSSIBLE data record and when withheld when it doesn't serve a 3rd parties interests. (Like the body cams for police, how often has the footage get released by police when charges of police excessive force come into play. Hint: virtually never, contrary to public expectations)
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
I don't want the Amazon delivery person doing anything more than dropping the package off and running.
"I'm late, I'm late" - White Rabbit
In many homes and apartments in many countries (Venezuela and the USoA included), the main door does not lead right into the house. Instead, the main door leads to a small space (zaguan, salita de estar, pasillo, sort of a small hallway). If I can put an interior door separating this space from the rest of the house, and if I used amazon a lot, then I would gladly go for this Amazon service.
the guy opens the main door, enters, drops the packet, leaves. All on camera
He can not see inside the house (because of the extra door), if he tries to enter the house, he has to force the extra door, and gets recorded on camera...
If, on the other hand, the main door leads right into the house, with no way to separate a small area from the rest, no fucking way I would go for this. Not only for the risk of being robed and what not, but also, for the invasion of privacy (i do not want the delivery guy seing the mess of my house, or what paintings I have on the walls), or getting frinedly with my rottwiler ;-)
*** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
You are right and I have a much better idea; Just send me a duplicate of your key and your alarm system code and I will make the delivery for you for free. No camera needed!
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
I've had a package go missing once at my current address. It was replaced at no cost to me. I have absolutely no motivation to have packages delivered inside my house since I know that if a package fails to show up, I can have it replaced without losing any money.
If packages were frequently disappearing from my house, giving someone (or some company) access to my house would definitely not be a step in the right direction to solving the problem.
As most people have commented, this appears rather stupid. Why would I ever want this?
But particularly in urban areas where people have had consistent problems with packages being stolen between delivery and when they get home, this addresses a real problem. In those cases, this would potentially be a great product.
This will probably only be for shipments delivered by Amazon. I suppose they could eventually partner with other shipping companies and let them use it, too, but that would let you use it for non-Amazon shipments, and I'm not sure they want this.
So this may be another signal that Amazon is ramping up their delivery network to eliminate UPS and other vendors. Not a good time to invest in UPS.
You obviously didn't order a video camera using Alexa or you would have proof on camera.
Yes, office security for being an Amazon customer. Maybe a security guard to oversee what the Amazon guy is doing.
I hope he's an Amazon affiliate security guard. No other company is allowed to touch your money.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Instead of all this camera tech, one time keys etc. why not simply provide a locker box outside the house? Could be used for regular mail as well.
FWIW, I don't really think this is going to be the problem it looks like from the outside. There are a couple of factors reducing your risk.
1. Most of the big name delivery drivers are paid a living wage. They have a reduced incentive to go rogue (I didn't say NO incentive). I assume this will continue to apply to whoever winds up with these delivery permissions.
2. Anybody who gets burgled after having a keyed delivery is likely to immediately blame Amazon, so the police are going to wind up looking hard at the drivers after the first Amazon-burglary. There will be some, but I think it will be a self-correcting problem.
3. How much of the 'good stuff' is visible from the front door via casual glance, but NOT visible already through the windows?
4. People will be watching the deliveries over the camera. A driver who LOOKS LIKE he is casing the place is going to get called out even if he never intends to commit a crime.
5. Amazon has every incentive to make this work**. The very first time someone has a credible case that this service is connected to a crime in someone's house, they will probably massively over-perform their 'service recovery', full financial compensation, lifetime free Prime, additional store discounts, etc.
Certainly there is risk, but I think the additional risk is small.
*: Bank robbery, mostly, but I was locked up with some people who did basically what you described.
**: I live in an apartment complex and my first Amazon shipment (which was also my last) was stolen before pickup. Now I can only get shipments sent to my friends house or my place of employment, both of which can be a hassle to transport home (as a bicycle commuter moving packages can be problematic).
The threat of jail absolutely keeps millions of people from committing crimes. It doesn't stop everyone, but it stops most people.
I am a convicted bank robber. I cannot begin to tell you how many people have told me "I have always wanted to rob a bank."
Why didn't they? Because they were scared of going to jail.
I think the better analysis is "how much does this service increase my risk" versus "how much benefit do I gain from it".
I think you make a valid point that it is going to happen. More than once. But the additional risk is (I think) small.
Nicely said.
I have an 140 lb Neapolitan mastiff who doesn't like strangers. I'm thinking that allowing Amazon to have a key to my front door could save me a ton of money on kibble and chew toys.
You are welcome on my lawn.
If you extrapolate that data out to the normal population, that's actually some fairly significant interest. Or, based on 60 million prime subscribers, they're looking at ~25 million people who are interested somewhat in the key.
I can imagine that the people at Amazon took some time and thought through the scenarios of this. Having said that, it's not a service I desire in any way, and I'm a serious user of Amazon Prime. So far, I don't see anything about the service that makes me want to invest the time and energy in having it installed.
Sarbonn's blog: http://www.sarbonn.com/blog
You don't have to install in in the bedroom.
I plan to put one on my garden shed or a special big amazon packages box.
I don't understand why they are going in this direction. Why not a locked box outside your door? Make it big enough for any normal package, or allow different sizes. Make it sturdy and weather proof. Put the same kind of lock system and camera on it. More people would be willing to have a box on their porch, as compared to the very few people who want their door lock under someone else's remote control.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
Look, it's quite obvious that the vast majority of Amazon Prime subscribers and the general public would not want the company to have a key to their locks, nor let delivery people enter their homes... but I think 4 to 5% is actually a pretty huge number right there.
I don't think many people are reading this right.
Personally, I'd never agree with that too, but I simply don't have to pay for the service. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure there are tons of people with reasonable excuses to get something like that.
Yes, it's still a huge security and privacy issue, but I can certainly see some cases where it becomes a necessity. People who are never home during delivery hours, people with disabilities that have a hard time getting to the door, people who already rely on in home delivery services for whatever reason.
Might seen like a dumb idea for some, but for specific people it could be life changing. Specially considering how many products Amazon deals with these days.
But where is the camera pointed? The door? The kitchen? The living room? The bedroom?
Imagine it's not a laptop, which will be relatively hard to hide as you leave through the video-taped front door, but a cell phone. Or if this is a house rather than an apartment, what's to say the back door or garden door wasn't left unlocked for the delivery guy's friends to come back an hour later?
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Let's say the Amazon employee/contractor admits to taking the laptop. Now what?
An admission of theft? That would make things easy.
But assuming everyone kept their mouths shut, how would you prove anything?
I wouldn't consider this stupid key in the first place. If I did lose my damn mind for some reason, I would still have a security camera or two watching the entryway.
The whole idea is stupid to begin with. Amazon doesn't need access to your house. They need a safe place to drop a delivery while you're gone. A securely-mounted lockbox with one-time access PINs would work. There is absolutely no reason for the deliveryman to enter your private living space.
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According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
I believe in the olden days of tech they called it a "man trap".
There's exactly NO trust relationship between the delivery personnel and the home owner.
Not every person can (or wants to) install what is, effectively, a security system.
More-over, if there's a fault in the system at any point, it could render EVERY home using the Amazon Key system vulnerable to zero-damage break-ins.
Also, for more paranoid people with firearms, this sounds like a GREAT way to get delivery personnel SHOT.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
As an prime subscriber myself, my answer is 'hell no'.
Yes, there's quite the pool of industrious thieves following amazon deliver trucks stealing boxes.. but really, send it to a delivery station or deliver to work.
I have a schlage be469. Being able to have the door lock itself after 30 seconds and allow me to create a temporary access code for certain family members makes it already more secure than my previous locks.
Let's face it - who re-keys a lock every time they lend it to a friend to house sit, or to a family member who may not most be the most reputable - but dang it, is still family? Heck, how about the time you had to literally leave the key under the door mat because you could not get a firm commitment on someone checking on your pets? How many times did your kids lose the key?
I'll take being able to reprogram my lock at a moments notice as more secure than a traditional lock. The likelihood of a hacker breaking through the zwave protocol to get into my house is much less likely than someone I know using an old key or simply breaking the door in.
The Opposite works for me. I get a key to the Amazon warehouse. I drive in, take what I ordered, and leave. Amazon should trust its customers. Customers should not trust Amazon. I'm sure if they use the Amazon camera, and Amazon Alexa, nothing could go wrong.
You do know that's exactly the model they're experimenting with for convenience stores, right? I'm not convinced they'll ever take it beyond an experiment, but it would be awesome to have no checkout line at a grocery store.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
We used to just have a mailbox big enough for packages. If it ain't gonna fit in that get it delivered to your workplace. Come on people, is it really that difficult???
How does this work with an actively monitored alarm system ?
They going to call when the delivery driver arrives so you can disarm the alarm ?
I think it would be a better solution to put a remote controlled lockbox on the front porch. Lock / unlock that instead of giving a total stranger access to your home.
liability and commercial insurance are big parts of why they are employees. Now if they are gig workers the big story should some get's hurt in an accident with amazon driver and both amazon and there non commercial auto insurance say we are not responsible.
The alternative is for the Amazon guys to keep hurling your packages onto your doorstep. It's not like Colin Kaepernick is making the throws... or wait a second...
If 5% of all Amazon Prime customers were to buy an Amazon Key, the company who makes them would be rolling in the dough.. I personally would never get one - but I can see how a few people might find it convenient, especially for Amazon Pantry customers. How much worse is this than having the doorman for your apartment building having a key to your apartment?
Build a door between the foyer of your house and the rest of the house, put a refrigerator in there, and the Amazon guy can put your Prime Pantry perishables in the fridge and you'd never need to go shopping ever again. Especially when Amazon Prime Booze starts up....
Have all your packages delivered to a UPS store. Most Americans live within a few miles of one. For those who don't, they probably don't have to worry as much about theft as the rest of us.
I have my deliveries left in an unlocked car in the driveway. The car doesn't run, so I'm not worried about anybody stealing it. Sure, somebody could just take the packages out of the car, but in ten years of doing this nobody has taken one yet. It's much better than just leaving packages on the front porch where anybody driving by can see them.
For packages that need a signature the UPS store gets them and signs for them. Then I can pick them up whenever I get back to town.
For some reason your Amazon home security camera had a blackout for the same 10 minutes that someone was robbing their home.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
Team up with the nude cleaners. Seems a lock box integrated into door might be more desirable vs a random delivery person getting access inside a home, even if they donâ(TM)t steal can case the place for their buddies later. Imagine a mini door like a pet door with an enclosure which can be attached from inside securely. Would not use all the time since bulky blocking inside entrance. An investment up front but if someone who gets many deliveries might be worth the convenience for a home mini loading dock system.
As a pet owner, this is a no-go regardless. It would make more sense if Amazon offered single locker units that could be securely attached outside your house.
Even if this does work as Amazon intends, then I see a giant antitrust lawsuit in the future. We're seeing Amazon vertically integrate everything, including shipping, which previously was exclusively outsourced to one of UPS, USPS, or FedEx. If this lock did gain mass market penetration, then you're going to see a situation arise where Amazon can literally lock the competition out.
The customer controls something using software provided by Amazon. The customers don't retain exclusive access to the lock because the software is probably proprietary (never trust proprietary software) and network-controlled (a tracker conveys signals to open/close the lock) which means Amazon can open/close the lock too. You should learn more about the dangers of proprietary software, particularly proprietary network software (which is often malware) and stop trusting whatever proprietors tell you.
If someone is breaking into your home you're better off making them have to do something that leaves clear evidence of a break-in such as a brick going through a window. The risks Amazon's system enables is indistinguishable from someone a client allowed in to do something the client wanted done.
If you think only the most sophisticated people or skills are required to pull that off, you have a lot to learn.
Digital Citizen
People are setting up spy devices voluntarily in their living rooms. What makes you think they wouldn't open that particular can of worms too?
Even if I WANTED this, I'd do it myself.
It's not hard to buy a lockbox, or issue out a one-use code. Or even a doorbell that activates a camera that lets you phone a lock that opens. Literally, cheaper tech, that works and is controlled by you, and does so much more.
At the moment, I have cameras, and I have a secure alleyway that I can open by GSM. Beyond that, it's literally one wire to make it happen the other way so that when they press the bell, it rings my phone and lets me talk to them.
Then I can open the alleyway remotely, watch what they're doing as they do it, lock it up once they're gone and do it only when I'm actually expecting a parcel.
The biggest problem is really that anything of value should have a signature for liability purposes - i.e. you spoke to a guy at the premises that took custody of the parcel. That's the only reason companies ever deliver to my neighbours rather than just leaving the parcel somewhere safe in sight of my cameras (which is far from infallible a system, but I've not had anyone try to nick anything yet).
But, honestly, 50 pounds/dollars, a trip to the hardware store and somewhere you can afford to let them into / open up isn't a lot. One GSM alarm panel with relay activation and a maglock, and a gate/steel box is more than enough for more uses. Stick a cheapy wifi camera on it and you have a good system for such things. These things are dirt cheap on Amazon itself, and the most expensive component of the whole system is the gate / box in the first place, not the electronics and gadgets to make it operate in a way that you don't need to give Amazon - or any other delivery company -
anything in terms of access to your property.
DUH!!!!! Thanks captain Obvious!
How am I going to keep up with the Jetsons when my deliveries go in a BOX?
You can record the guy all you like, all you're going to have is proof that he killed your pets. They'll still be dead.
The camera is the deterrent -- if he really wants to kill your pet, he doesn't need the Amazon lock to do it. But if he knows his entry to your house is recorded, that's the deterrent.
The best candidates for this will be people who have a small area of the house, like a foyer, mud room, or covered porch - that can be isolated from the rest of the house. The Amazon Key would grant access to the isolated area to leave packages there but would not allow the delivery person into the rest of the house.
well, assuming it was the delivery person, either they picked it up while in the field of view of the camera (in which case there's video of the theft), or they left the field of view of the camera (in which case there's video of them committing criminal trespass, since there's no legitimate reason for them to ever be out of view of the camera while inside the recipient's home). Either way, they're in a lot of trouble.
That said, I still wouldn't get the thing. There's at least two amazon locker units in easy distance from my place.
The access information will be available via supeona to any law enforcement agency that desires it. Keyless entry to your dwelling for sneak and peak (see: https://www.aclu.org/other/how... ), as well as any other entity that amazon wishes to cooperate with without warrant - national security letter, anyone?
I have that deadbolt in my Amazon shopping cart and was going to order it for my condo after I get my new programmable thermostat installed.
Any issues I should know about? I have read the complaints about the low/high power mode and how high power eats batteries, but I've checked my door and the current deadbolt slides smoothly. The only problem I know I'm going to have is getting the cylinder re-keyed to match the current one (also a Schlage).
I have it connected via wink and the battery is still at 90% after 4 months use. I had a problem where the keypad broke by I was still able to access it via wink.
I called schlage. They did not even ask for a receipt (i ordered it on amazon.) They just flat replaced it - they offered. Replaced isn't even the right word. They let me keep the old one for parts.
I have no complaints and only can say good things about it.
Additionally, it has a tradition key for emergencies so there is no real fear for me of being locked out of my house.