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8K TVs Are Coming, But Don't Buy the Hype (engadget.com)

If the 8,294,400 pixels of resolution on an Ultra High Definition television just don't seem to convey enough detail, fear not: The electronics industry has heard your cry. From a report: Even as UHD TVs, often called 4K TVs for their nearly 4,000 pixels of horizontal resolution, approach half of display shipments in the U.S., set manufacturers have been stepping up their demos of 8K sets that, with their 7680-by-4320 resolution, pack in a full 33,177,600 pixels. And Sharp is now expanding its distribution of one such set, the 70-inch LV-70X500E. Following its October debut in China and subsequent arrivals in Japan and Taiwan, this 8K display will go on sale across Europe at the end of April for about $13,800 at current exchange rates. That, apparently, is supposed to be a reasonable price for a set that supports a video format that offers next to nothing to watch, that can't be streamed on most broadband connections or fit onto Blu-ray discs and which can't even be properly appreciated unless you get a set too big to fit in many living rooms.

[...] The highlights reel playing on a demo unit of Sharp's 8K set required 300 megabits per second of bandwidth to stream, said Adrian Wysocki, group product manager at UMC, the Sharp-owned firm that builds TVs in Poland for the company. He suggested in a conversation Friday that more efficient formats could cut that to 100 Mbps. Only 23.2% of U.S. fixed-broadband connections hit that speed at the end of 2016, according to to the Federal Communications Commission's latest report on internet access services.

202 of 299 comments (clear)

  1. Brave take by Rjcc · · Score: 1

    The people who think anyone needs an explanation about not buying a $14,000 television will never stop being funny to me.

    There's no hype if it's not really available.

    --
    "I'll be your huckleberry" - Doc Holliday - Tombstone
    1. Re:Brave take by gnick · · Score: 4, Funny

      an explanation about not buying a $14,000 television

      At least hold off until you can buy Monster Ethernet cables so you get the bandwidth you need.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    2. Re:Brave take by HornWumpus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you're sitting close enough to see the pixels, you are 'watching the equipment' not the show. Like an 'audiophile' listens to the stereo, not the music.

      4k screens are for monitors and VR displays, 8k will be the same. I'm just glad stupid people will cover the R&D costs of my future monitors.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    3. Re:Brave take by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I remember once seeing a 42" plasma TV with a $30,000 price tag. I was simultaneously in awe of the technology and shocked that anybody would pay that much.

      Now a 42" LCD is $300 at Walmart.

      So too will be the 8k display, someday.

    4. Re:Brave take by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Rich people, really. What do you think I'm going to do when that $175k Congressional salary starts rolling in? Buy a $1,500 bespoke suit at my local tailor, of course. There's no way I need a $175k salary, so it may as well go into the local poverty-stricken district of my city where some entrepreneur has attracted wealthy clients to create local jobs.

      Of course I'm going to eliminate my mortgage and car loan, too. That'll take uh. Two months. I'll also have a nicer yard, seeing as so many people in my neighborhood are desperate for jobs and are willing to clean up the trash and do the gardening for pretty cheap. Even at $15/hr, that's only $150/week for a ten-hour weekly maintenance schedule. I'd like to rebuild my rear deck with some composite but maybe I'll just pay somebody else to strip it down and redo that for me, too; along with doing some electrical work and finally installing that 40-amp ChargePoint I've been meaning to get.

      I'm still not buying a $5,000 TV; screw that. 4K UHD OLED TVs will be under $1,000 by the time I'm ready to buy.

      What? You didn't think I'd already planned for how to deal with this unnecessarily-large compensation package? I plan for everything.

    5. Re:Brave take by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Look closer, 55'' 4k Sceptre, $300. Walmart, internet only.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    6. Re:Brave take by Immerman · · Score: 2

      Yep. And far be it from me to mock those wealthy cutting-edge enthusiasts for creating an initial market for things I'd like to someday have. 8k might not be an earth-shattering improvement for watching movies from the couch, but ~200dpi on a 46 inch computer monitor still leaves plenty of room for improvement.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    7. Re: Brave take by ljw1004 · · Score: 1

      I feel more immersed when a movie fills my peripheral vision. At most cinemas, including my preferred IMAX, my preferred seat is in the first or second row, for the immersion.

      I'm not 'watching the equipment' - I'm immersing myself

    8. Re:Brave take by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Human eyes are diffraction limited to about 1 arc minute. Cite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/....

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    9. Re:Brave take by Vermonter · · Score: 1

      You realize that government salaries aren't tax free? Politicians are scum, but they know that would be one grift too far. Take home on $175k isn't that high, not that there's any chance.

      Well, by default, yes. But any politician worth his salt in corruption going to get around it.

    10. Re:Brave take by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      You think $1500 will get you a nice custom tailored suit.

      Sure. I've seen the handiwork for an $1,100 suit and it's better than the $800 off-the-rack-and-tailored suit I'm wearing now. I'm not Mubarak.

      You realize that government salaries aren't tax free? Politicians are scum, but they know that would be one grift too far.

      Take-home is about $127,000. My current take-home is just under 45% of that. My mandatory household expenses (food, mortgage, utilities, etc.) are roughly 33% of my take-home income.

      Eliminating my car loan and mortgage takes my mandatory household expenses down to 13% of my current income. With the Congressional salary, I can (barely) run my household with approximately 6% of said income, after resolving current inefficiencies. That would be extremely skimpy and would generally suck, of course.

      As I said: I don't need all of this money. I'll have people tending my lawn and stuff pretty much immediately. The people of my neighborhood struggle to survive and are constantly seeking work; you'd be surprised at the stabilization effect even a small household chore has for families in that situation. What point is there in just holding onto it all?

      While we're on the topic: why don't we tie the Congressional salary to three times the GNI-per-Capita? In 2016, that would have been $176,000. Strong, stable economies with a well-protected workforce--good social safety nets and a robust consumer class--maximize the economic wealth on a per-capita basis, and this maximization would lead to higher Congressional salaries. One might consider basing Congress's salary on their performance; but what about ensuring Congress's salary is a measurement of their performance?

    11. Re:Brave take by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      I agree. 720p broadcast looks fantastic so far as I'm concerned. 1080p from a disc looks great too. I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference between 1080, 4k and 8k anymore. More useful when you want a gigantic desktop with lots of stuff open on it or for gaming.

    12. Re:Brave take by ChrisMaple · · Score: 3, Interesting

      From your wikipedia citation:
      the human eye should have a resolving power of 20 arcsecs in theory, though normally only 60 arcsecs.
      Stated better, the human eye is diffraction limited at 20 arc seconds, but other factors limit the typical resolving power of thew human eye to 1 arc minute.

      Some people have exceptionally good vision and can do better than 1 arc minute. The GP claim of 31.5 arc seconds is silly in its exaggerated precision.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    13. Re:Brave take by nullgreen · · Score: 1

      You think $1500 will get you a nice custom tailored suit. Maybe in HongKong of Vietnam.

      For €1000 (approx. $1200) you can get a really nice tailored suit pretty much anywhere in Italy.

    14. Re:Brave take by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      It's easier to see higher resolution on static images. Computer generated edges - text and cartoon images - can be made arbitrarily sharp because there is no lens capturing the image. Lenses have their own limitations.

      Producing 8k quality video requires more care in production than is common; vibration that's no problem at coarser resolutions can wipe out the advantage of higher resolution. Focus becomes more critical, so that depth-of-field problems are more obvious.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    15. Re:Brave take by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      What? You can _easily_ pay $1000 for 'off the rack' from Italy.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    16. Re:Brave take by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

      I'm still not buying a $5,000 TV; screw that. 4K UHD OLED TVs will be under $1,000 by the time I'm ready to buy.

      Shop harder.

      I picked up an LG 46" 4k TV for computer display use for under $500 in between the holidays. Pretty good deal, but not a steal. You can find even lower-priced options, but they will be unknown brands.

      There is a right time to shop, and a wrong one. Or if you want to conspicuously consume, then pay a lot for things.

    17. Re:Brave take by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      You're modded as funny, but this probably means even ANOTHER fricken display connector standard to support the bandwidth necessary to pipe video from your blue-ray player (or whatever) to your television.

    18. Re: Brave take by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      "what is the point of getting a larger TV when you sit farther away? " In case you wondered, you're the problem here, not everyone else.

    19. Re: Brave take by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      The lowest 4K at Christmas at Walmart was $188.

    20. Re:Brave take by gnick · · Score: 1

      Apparently HDMI 2.1 will handle 8k @30Hz uncompressed or 120Hz using Display Stream Compression.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    21. Re:Brave take by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      125" TV for $5,000, I'd buy that. We seem to have come up short at 75", going the next 50" seems to be problematic and it might be some time. Size counts, more pixels once to get to certain resolutions not so much, but a bigger screen, oh yeah and that's mainly for scenery, who needs to pay for a view if you can pipe one in. Although I would still opt for a better view but that is mainly because I have become used to one over decades.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    22. Re:Brave take by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      An LED-backed LCD will fall under the $600 mark; but OLED is a bigger beast to slay.

    23. Re:Brave take by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      I paid $1750 for my 130" 4K/HDR/60Hz "TV", but it's a projection TV: https://www.amazon.com/Optoma-...

    24. Re:Brave take by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

      An LED-backed LCD will fall under the $600 mark; but OLED is a bigger beast to slay.

      It's OLED, 2017 model.

      No burn-in issues to speak of.

    25. Re:Brave take by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Interesting.

    26. Re:Brave take by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

      Lucky.

    27. Re:Brave take by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

      It was marketed and sold as a TV, not as a computer display. Had it been also in the display category, I imagine there would have been a price premium.

      BTW, screen-savers will come back in fashion. Organic materials and electrical current flow are not the best of friends. So, they will have shorter lives than CRTs (inorganic-based phosphors). I just sleep the screen on short delay, or use a black image as a screen saver.

    28. Re:Brave take by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      It really depends. Complex ester bonds are weaker than strong amine bonds; metallic bonds are even better. In general, simple molecules hold up under electrical pressure; complex molecules can break down more-readily. It's an entropy thing: if there's a lower energy state, kicking activation energy into something chaotically will cause it to move toward that lower energy state; and OLED screens aren't factories designed to generate and separate purified compounds, so you'll generally experience a build-up of impurities as large, complex molecules decay.

      Polymer OLEDs don't have the lifespan of small molecule OLEDs.

  2. I want these for pictures by SuperKendall · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sure it's going to be a while before you see much 8k VIDEO content...

    But what the naysayers are ignore is how awesome these will be for images.

    Also a nice side effect of putting on 8K displays, is it drives the cots of 4k displays even cheaper in the meantime.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:I want these for pictures by omnichad · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Also a nice side effect of putting on 8K displays, is it drives the cots of 4k displays even cheaper in the meantime.

      And more specifically, it's the same manufacturing needed to make smaller 4K displays. This is just trying to monetize the fact that smaller 4K panels are being manufactured with fewer flaws.

    2. Re:I want these for pictures by kelemvor4 · · Score: 1

      Sure it's going to be a while before you see much 8k VIDEO content...

      But what the naysayers are ignore is how awesome these will be for images.

      Also a nice side effect of putting on 8K displays, is it drives the cots of 4k displays even cheaper in the meantime.

      As is the way of every new hotness. It drives the cost of the old busted down. 8k is the new hotness. 4k is the old busted. The author must have some vested interest in an older technology. Maybe he bought his first 4k tv last weekend and is bitter?

    3. Re:I want these for pictures by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 2

      But what the naysayers are ignore is how awesome these will be for images

      I can now display images that are close to 100% zoom from my DSLR (36MP) or similar effective resolution of 35mm film scans. These silly TV resolutions however do seem like the ever increasing pixel counts on point and shoot and cell phone cameras though. It is somethign that is simple to understand and easy to market to but is something that is likely falling into more hype than anything else.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    4. Re:I want these for pictures by Holi · · Score: 1

      How much smaller do they need to get? They have 4k screens on phones.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    5. Re:I want these for pictures by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      It's a 33 megapixel display. While there certainly are professional applications for displays of that pixel count, professionals already have ways of dealing with large numbers of pixels (e.g. zooming in, which in professional workflows would almost certainly remain the preferred way of interacting with images, since they need to be able to see what they're doing), whereas they don't have a great means for dealing with poor color accuracy if the display lacks good color reproduction, which is likely to be the case with the initial displays of this pixel count.

      Outside of professional circles, the use cases pretty much disappear. The cameras in the hands of normal people that are taking images of this size are doing so because the manufacturers are trying to tick checkboxes (i.e. our phone has more megapixels than our competitors'!) rather than because they're interested in producing images of the highest quality. The images from those sensors are almost universally noisy, with the extra pixels essentially going to waste. Given that, the images wouldn't actually benefit from being able to see them more clearly. Rather, being able to see them more in more detail would simply reveal more flaws in the images themselves.

    6. Re:I want these for pictures by omnichad · · Score: 1

      They're already small enough. But to do that, you need higher pixel density than you need in a 50" 4K screen. That's enough pixel density to make a 10" 8K screen. a 1080p smartphone screen is enough pixel density for a large 8K TV.

    7. Re:I want these for pictures by omnichad · · Score: 1

      This is nothing to do with competition. This is to do with mature manufacturing techniques with low defect rates and existing manufacturing facilities. That same pixel density when scaled to larger panels makes higher resolution screens. The prices are already down, but this is another way to monetize existing manufacturing facilities. The incremental cost to manufacture these as a new product line is very low compared to creating something new.

    8. Re:I want these for pictures by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      These will be great for computer monitors. CAD will look fantastic.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:I want these for pictures by swb · · Score: 1

      Honestly, if ten hours of work at $10/hr makes a table, you can't continue supplying tables for less than $100 each--regardless of competition. Find a way to make a table in five hours of work and now it's a $50 table

      I thought they just told people who made $10/hr they now make $5/hr, instant $50 table.

    10. Re:I want these for pictures by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      This always takes me back to being a young fellow, looking wistfully at Tektronix graphics terminal ads...Someday I would own that good a screen, now I throw them away.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    11. Re:I want these for pictures by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

      > 60Hz

      rather have 2k at 144 than 8k at 60.

    12. Re:I want these for pictures by omnichad · · Score: 1

      144 isn't divisible by 60, so it's not going to be useful for most interlaced content. Without variable refresh, 240Hz would be the best compromise, though a true 120Hz would be good enough for anything but 48fps (Hobbit, next Avatar) content.

    13. Re:I want these for pictures by Drethon · · Score: 1

      Sure it's going to be a while before you see much 8k VIDEO content...

      But what the naysayers are ignore is how awesome these will be for images.

      Also a nice side effect of putting on 8K displays, is it drives the cots of 4k displays even cheaper in the meantime.

      Yep, if they get these out, I may finally see a 26" 4k monitor at a price I'm willing to spend. Yay!

    14. Re:I want these for pictures by thsths · · Score: 1

      8k are going to be amazing as monitors, but for TVs I do not quite see the appeal. Sure, it may be so cheap that you just get it, a bit like 4k now.

      But for now, an 8k TV has the same amount as 4 4k TV, but it costs 40 times as much. Something does not quite add up.

    15. Re:I want these for pictures by sexconker · · Score: 1

      120 Hz is the correct choice.

      48 FPS films can fuck off. Either stay with 24 or move to 60. You could even move to 30 for a middle ground if you wanted. But none of this 48 bullshit. We're all digital projection and mastering now anyway, and 3D is dead so we don't have to worry about that eating half the framerate.

      Thankfully, the only 48 FPS films that I know of have been pure trash. TVs should start adopting adaptive framerate (Thanks to AMD / Freesync) soon, so this won't really matter as long as the content and the player are competent. You'll be able to run your big TV at 96 Hz if you're dumb enough to watch a Hobbit movie and are dumb enough to buy whatever re-release has it at 48 FPS.

    16. Re:I want these for pictures by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but then you have to also provide an extra $5/hr of welfare, which has to be produced, which means somebody has to get paid, which means taxes and transfers, and you're back where you started. Welfare keeps an economy stable and maximizes economic wealth (when implemented properly), but it doesn't magic things out of the ether any more than a capacitor is a magical source of electricity from nowhere.

    17. Re:I want these for pictures by omnichad · · Score: 1

      48fps is so that you can drop it down to 24fps for theater presentation and have it film-like. 30fps does not look like a movie. Most people's minds are heavily tuned toward the 24fps frame rate and anything else looks like TV or soap.

      The problem with the Hobbit movies is that the special effects shots did not use similar (virtual) rolling shutter techniques to match the motion blur of the digital footage. The result is that any special effects were overly sharp and had less motion blur than anything else on-screen. And a large percentage of what was on-screen was effects shots to some extent. The whole reason for The Hobbit to be HFR was all the sweeping panoramic flyover shots - which were full of judder in all the LOTR movies. They didn't look good if you notice that sort of thing.

      Whether you like the script or not, the technical merits of 48fps have a lot of potential, but it will require a decade or more of experience for Hollywood to actually be proficient at all.

    18. Re:I want these for pictures by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      The real benefit of 8K sets, provided they make it work at a reasonable price, is glassless 3D. It's a 4K picture that uses the rest of the extra pixels to create a lightfield. It was demoed at CES 2018. I would love to see this.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    19. Re:I want these for pictures by swb · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but then you have to also provide an extra $5/hr of welfare,

      Your argument fell apart at the beginning. You don't *have to* provide $5/hr of welfare, which is why our system is so super awesome.

      [I'm being facetious with all of this...]

    20. Re:I want these for pictures by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Theater presentation? Nearly every theater screen in the US is digital projection now, capable of 24 FPS, 48 FPS, 60 FPS or more.

      30 FPS looks fine. How the fuck are you going to say 30 FPS looks bad, then say 48 FPS is ok? Major theaters didn't show the Hobbit in 24 FPS. They showed it at 48 FPS. The problem with the Hobbit wasn't the special effects looking sharp (they looked fake and awful in general, especially anything with water). The problem was it was another boring grand adventure stretched out across 3 movies that each ran way too long and no one gave a shit about.

      There's no technical merit to 48 FPS that isn't true of 30 FPS or 60 FPS. Further, there's nothing to be "proficient" about. You run the film at double the speed, doubling your cost. Or you run the video at twice the frame rate, doubling your VFX render cost and not much else. Your nonsense about rolling shutters is absurd. You're still doing the VFX afterward and you're still working with the same fucking issues matching the digital effects to the motion blur, color, noise, etc. of the film. If it looks like ass at 48 FPS it'll look like ass at 24 FPS.

    21. Re:I want these for pictures by Socguy · · Score: 1

      Might as well import a 16K from Japan then if you're going to go to all that trouble just to show images. Otherwise just save your $14,000.

    22. Re:I want these for pictures by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Nearly every theater screen in the US is digital projection now, capable of 24 FPS, 48 FPS, 60 FPS or more.
      30 FPS looks fine.

      Digital projection is not all it takes. A compatible delivery format that was designed into the firmware is what it takes. Few of them had the capability. 30 fps is drastically different and if you can't see the difference then you simply don't know what you're talking about.

      Major theaters didn't show the Hobbit in 24 FPS. They showed it at 48 FPS.

      I had to drive to one of only a couple theaters in a metro area to try it out.

      Oh, I had no interest in the movies themselves. Just the new format.

      You run the film at double the speed, doubling your cost. Or you run the video at twice the frame rate, doubling your VFX render cost and not much else. Your nonsense about rolling shutters is absurd. You're still doing the VFX afterward and you're still working with the same fucking issues matching the digital effects to the motion blur, color, noise, etc. of the film. If it looks like ass at 48 FPS it'll look like ass at 24 FPS.

      These were shot with RED cameras (not film). And doubling the render cost is nothing compared to the cost of creating the VFX. Matching the motion characteristics is more complex than just matching frame rate (especially if you have two targets). You don't even know what rolling shutter means, so stop talking absurd. But the 24fps (most of the trailers I saw) were actually more convincing in the VFX because it's known territory and could be handled relatively well.

    23. Re:I want these for pictures by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      In all honesty, you should see the Nordic Model of Social Democracy. I'm an odd one in the progressive camp: I push back against Bernie's Democratic Socialism.

      Then consider: I'm planning to end all homelessness and hunger, provide universal healthcare and vocational education, achieve permanent full employment, and shorten the working hours; and I'm going to do it with half the tax rate of Nordic countries.

      Go big or go home.

  3. 8K, lucky to get 1080p! by foxalopex · · Score: 1

    The sad part about these new 8K TVs is they cost more than some small cars or a used car and there's virtually no content that could drive something this powerful short of a very powerful computer. Better than 1080p is a rare find in most digital TV broadcasts, 1080i or 720p is more typical. Definately not there yet.

    1. Re:8K, lucky to get 1080p! by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      I can see 8K 70" HDTV costing $999 shipped in 2-5 years, and I can see Netflix begin shooting their premium content in 8K in the next year, and transition everything from 4K to 8K within the next 3-5. It will happen. They can always downscale the content to fit your device.
       
      All of Netflix's original content (which is a substantial chunk now) has been shot in 4K since about 2013. As computing, storage, editing resources improve it's not unreasonable to see things shot in 8K. Most everything we watch these days (Amazon Prime, HBO, Netflix) is all shot in 4K and displays on our TV as 4K (in some compressed form or another). When Netflix made 4K available to everyone, only about 1% of users could display it, that number is significantly higher now. 65" 4K Samsung HDTV are $999 all day long on Amazon, we have had ours now for a almost 18 months now and couldn't be happier with it. Due to a christmas special we got it for closer to $900 or 10% off.
       
      I can see 8K being the norm for TVs 70" and larger; uncompressed 4K on our TV looks really sharp from 13' away at 65" but anything larger and you would lose sharpness. Most HDTV resolution charts agree with our numbers.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    2. Re:8K, lucky to get 1080p! by lgw · · Score: 1

      All of Netflix's original content (which is a substantial chunk now) has been shot in 4K since about 2013.

      Will Netflix stream 4k to a browser? My 4K TV is just the monitor for my laptop, and I can't find anyone streaming 4K to a browser. (I have no interest in the UI of the Roku/Apple/Fire etc set-top boxes).

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    3. Re: 8K, lucky to get 1080p! by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      8k will keep their mail to order business going. Amazon could also compete with delivery service video rentals. Increased Amazon visits likely increases annual average profit. Olympics in 8k on satellite should be fucking awesome.

  4. Of unicorns and compression rates by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

    The highlights reel playing on a demo unit of Sharp's 8K set required 300 megabits per second of bandwidth to stream, said Adrian Wysocki, group product manager at UMC, the Sharp-owned firm that builds TVs in Poland for the company. He suggested in a conversation Friday that more efficient formats could cut that to 100 Mbps.

    I'd love to hear how they're going to cut stream bandwidth by 2/3 without nullifying whatever incremental visual experience 8k is supposed to give you.

    1. Re:Of unicorns and compression rates by Big+Bipper · · Score: 2

      Even if you're one of the lucky few who can really get 100 mbs, how many customers can your ISP support all streaming 100 mbs at the same time before your ISP's peering points get saturated and you get throttled in some manner, or need a higher priced option in order not to be throttled ? Of course, that would only happen after you've already spent the $13k.

      --
      You live and learn, or you don't learn much.
    2. Re:Of unicorns and compression rates by omnichad · · Score: 1

      That 300Mbps would be roughly at the same quality as 4K Blu-Ray but with the 4-fold resolution and bandwidth increase.

      Streaming 4K content isn't nearly as pristine and runs between 15-25Mbps. Quadrupling that would be around the 100Mbps mark. But really, HEVC is more efficient as resolution increases, so it might actually look better than current 4K at 4 times the size. On the other hand, if 8K ever makes it to cable/satellite TV expect it to still look worse than Blu-Ray quality (most HD content is worse than DVD quality as it is) and be allocated maybe 20Mbps of bandwidth per channel.

      In short, if you've ever compared Blu-Ray to an HD Netflix stream, you can tell which one is better, but both are far better than SD. The main difference between Blu-Ray and HD streams are motion blocking artifacts. You get most of the high resolution improvements in relatively static scenes.

    3. Re:Of unicorns and compression rates by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Let me email you a precalculus textbook...

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    4. Re:Of unicorns and compression rates by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      Probably just switching from a poor compression system like MPEG to HVC. They could also use a wavelet system like JP2k to get a lot more out of it than whatever they are using.

    5. Re:Of unicorns and compression rates by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Trends tend to suggest this is possible. We've gone from MPEG 1/2 to H.265 in about 25 years, with the latter being capable of compressing content at a higher quality to that of the former despite being 1/4 of the size.

      Something to think about in general: While 300Mbps is inline with 4K Blu-ray, which has a ceiling of about 80Mbps (4x80 = 320Mbps, 4x4K=8K), videos rarely need to be compressed at that maximum rate to look effectively perfect. Most of the time the bit rate can be much lower, typically 1/3 of the maximum, it just needs the higher rates to be available when the need arises.

      So even if there are no improvements on H.265 in the near future (AV1 is supposed to already be an improvement), it's possible that, with suitable buffering, a 100Mbps media channel would be more than capable of providing a high quality 8K video signal.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  5. Only 8K????? by franzrogar · · Score: 1

    11 years ago we had a 24k TV!!

    https://www.cnet.com/news/what...

    1. Re:Only 8K????? by azadrozny · · Score: 3, Funny

      Pales in comparison to Frank's 2000" TV. I heard he got the last one in stock.

  6. obligatory futurama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK76j8sdVaw

  7. Meh. by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

    I have a 1080p dumb 50" TV... does the job. Only cost 225EUR.

    --
    Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    1. Re:Meh. by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      Keep it. I have a 4K monitor for gaming, but there are very few videos exist at 4K that make me go wow. There are a few, mostly nature documentaries that will do it. I have yet to see a 4K movie worth the extra cost.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    2. Re:Meh. by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      Perhaps... but enough for spending money on a new TV? Hell fuck no!

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    3. Re:Meh. by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      That was the plan. It's pretty much the impression I had in the first place. One of the things I really like abouti it, is that it's a dumb TV. Very hard to find dumb TVs in the higher resolution sets.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    4. Re:Meh. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      You have to goto the real cheapies, but they're readily available.

      The problem with the super cheaps is the quality control. You might need two or three before you find a good one, the 'name brands' aren't much better.

      I paid $300 for a 55, It's OK. Speakers do _suck_, but that's long covered. You can't find a (dumb or not) 1080 for less.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    5. Re:Meh. by jwhyche · · Score: 3

      Very hard? I would almost say impossible. I've actually been pricing UHD tv's for the greater part of a year now. One of the requirements is I want a dumb one. But there are none to be had.

      My current tv is a 6 year old visio. It started life as a smart tv then gradually all the apps stopped working and where never updated. I said "fuck it" and bought a ruko.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    6. Re:Meh. by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      at 8K, you're no longer gaming full-screen. You now have a window on the side of your 75-inch desktop space. This is the future of Twitch.

    7. Re:Meh. by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      Well, I didn't want to say 'impossible' because I wasn't 100% certain. Still, I prefer my TVs dumb... If I want "smartness", I can build that myself and have more control.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    8. Re:Meh. by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      I don't game on my TV. Okay, that isn't entirely true. I have an old PS2 and a Wii. Both which never are used, but attached to the TV anyway. I dabbled into Steam Machines, with very low end hardware (cheap NUC-like. I got it dirt cheap on sale). It works for casual games, but, frankly, most games on Steam -even the casual ones- are badly adapted for using on TV. The fonts are too small, and if you need to do any significant reading, you have to sit way too close to the TV.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    9. Re:Meh. by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      Super cheapies. Don't let the bad reviews scare you. I just paid $300 for a 55 sceptre dumb 4k TV, Walmart online only.

      It's OK, the name brands aren't better at the economy end and are all 'smart' only, which makes them worse.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    10. Re:Meh. by E-Rock · · Score: 1

      I get that you'd prefer a display rather than a smart TV (and they sell them, just look under monitors rather than TVs and expect to pay more). However, I don't see why that would actually stop you. I have a 'smart' TV with the wireless disabled and Ethernet disconnected.

    11. Re:Meh. by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Never bothered me; then again, I'm also playing on an i7 4790k with built-in 3D graphics, no external video card.

    12. Re:Meh. by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      I just may have really bad eyeshight.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    13. Re:Meh. by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      Standard monitors don't have CI+ slots for DVB-C.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    14. Re:Meh. by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      Having all the Smart crap confuses normal users... especially if they don't work because you disabled Internet connections. I have read of instances of Smart TVs piggybacking on unsecured Wifi connections. Sure, probably operator error, but none of those companies can be trusted.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    15. Re:Meh. by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Man, that's cheap. I'd been wanting to upgrade a 32" 720 to something more like 48" 1080p. Didn't realize they'd dropped so much.

      How is the Sceptre? My last Walmart internet special TV looks ok, but the interface is downright terrible. (It turns itself on daily ... with a setting that resets daily, so that you can't stop it. And the bios update was so unintuitive it took me 2 weeks and 5 support calls to get it working.) That was an RCA, though. Might be what I get for going name brand.

    16. Re:Meh. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Meh, it's pretty basic. Has one little cluster of bad pixels, but I can't see them at couch distance. At a month, it's past infant mortality, but I'm not really expecting durability. Not like I got much durability from the previous LG. They wire the backlight LEDs in series, like cheap christmas tree lights, first one that blows to open and the TV is 'uneconomical to fix'. I will say on that point, the Sceptre remembers your settings and defaults to brightness 50. The LG constantly reset itself to brightness 100, like someone was trying to make it die ASAP.

      The remote and menus are more or less equivalent to the previous LG dumb TV. I did need to find the remote trick to enable the tech menu to tune the picture position when displaying off the PC.

      Haven't messed with the bios update. It's apparently USB thumbdrive based.

      I was a little concerned because my amp doesn't do HDMI 2, but it supports audio return, as does the TV, so everything works together well.

      The online reviews concerned me, but I figured worst comes to worst, I take it up the road to WalMart and have them ship another. The first was 'good enough', I let the bad pixels pass.

      The one bitch: It's display is apparently slightly more than 4k. When upscaling 1080p, the picture is right to the edges (tuneable from above mentioned hidden menu), in 4k, there is a black border around the edge, maybe 2-3% of the screen.

      $300 was a special, but the same TV was $200 last black friday. You can't find a cheap 1080 anymore.

      All the specials are 4k, the only dumb 4ks are basically this same set, with different badging. So I said: 'fuck it, it's loose change.'

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    17. Re:Meh. by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Heh. I had bad eyesight and never knew it: my brain was using oversampling to convert the fuzzy circles into letters and words.

    18. Re:Meh. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Our Blu-Ray player managed to update itself, despite not knowing the WiFi password.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    19. Re:Meh. by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the rundown.

      I'm seeing 1080 versions on the web site for under $300, some as low as $150. Maybe they're just dumping extra stock. Even your model is on sale for $250 right now.

    20. Re:Meh. by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      You wonder how such things happen, right?

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    21. Re:Meh. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I'm assuming an unsecured access point, but it could conceivably have gone through the TV, which does have the password. I don't know if that's even possible, but I don't know it's impossible.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    22. Re:Meh. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      When I looked, the remaining 1080s were refurbs and cost as much at the same size. But I didn't look at everything, I filtered out all smart sets. YMMV

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    23. Re:Meh. by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      Ethernet over HDMI exists. So, it's not unthinkable.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
  8. This is about glasses free 3D by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    8K TVs are what is needed for glasses free 3D to become a reality. I've read about people demoing them on AVS forums and they says that they were shocked at what the prototypes were doing.

    I won't get into links and proving it. Just do an internet search for glasses free TV and you'll see articles and reviews that discuss this topic.

    As for content availability. Don't worry about it. It's a chicken and egg issue. Early adopters will buy 8K TVs and then content providers will provide content. And eventually the technology will trickle down into lower price points. Don't believe me? If you told people that you could buy a 75" plasma in 10 years for $1400 they'd laugh at you. Well, it's here today. It's not plasma but it's here. And it's 4K and is wider color gamut capable (UHD).

    As for bandwidth requirements, ignore it. Bandwidth tech will catch up.

  9. Is there a limit? by mi · · Score: 1

    a video format that offers next to nothing to watch, that can't be streamed on most broadband connections or fit onto Blu-ray discs and which can't even be properly appreciated unless you get a set too big to fit in many living rooms.

    These are all temporary problems — including even the living room sizes.

    But the human eye has its limits too. What's the actual N, beyond which we, the humans — even those with the sharpest eyes — can no longer distinguish between N and 2N pixels per inch?

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Is there a limit? by sootman · · Score: 1

      > What's the actual N, beyond which we, the humans -- even those with the
      > sharpest eyes -- can no longer distinguish between N and 2N pixels per inch?

      Luckily, that math has been done.

      https://www.google.com/search?...

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    2. Re:Is there a limit? by mi · · Score: 1

      Luckily, that math has been done.

      You link to recommended viewing distances, not picture-resolutions. If you meant a particular article, you should've dispensed with the sarcasm, and linked to it directly.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    3. Re:Is there a limit? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 5, Informative

      > But the human eye has its limits too. What's the actual N, beyond which we, the humans -- even those with the sharpest eyes -- can no longer distinguish between N and 2N pixels per inch?

      The TL:DR; version is: Use a 4K distance calculator

      * Distance Graph (PNG)

      * Size to Distance Calculator

      The Long version: It's complicated

      From a well known and respected Photography:

      http://clarkvision.com/imagede...

      How many megapixels equivalent does the eye have?

      The eye is not a single frame snapshot camera. It is more like a video stream. The eye moves rapidly in small angular amounts and continually updates the image in one's brain to "paint" the detail. We also have two eyes, and our brains combine the signals to increase the resolution further. We also typically move our eyes around the scene to gather more information. Because of these factors, the eye plus brain assembles a higher resolution image than possible with the number of photoreceptors in the retina. So the megapixel equivalent numbers below refer to the spatial detail in an image that would be required to show what the human eye could see when you view a scene.

      But if we do the math ...

      Based on the above data for the resolution of the human eye, let's try a "small" example first. Consider a view in front of you that is 90 degrees by 90 degrees, like looking through an open window at a scene. The number of pixels would be

      90 degrees * 60 arc-minutes/degree * 1/0.3 * 90 * 60 * 1/0.3 = 324,000,000 pixels (324 megapixels).

      At any one moment, you actually do not perceive that many pixels, but your eye moves around the scene to see all the detail you want. But the human eye really sees a larger field of view, close to 180 degrees. Let's be conservative and use 120 degrees for the field of view. Then we would see

      120 * 120 * 60 * 60 / (0.3 * 0.3) = 576 megapixels.

      Another calculation estimates around ~2200 dpi.

      http://wolfcrow.com/blog/notes...

      Maximum Resolution of the Eye

      So this is how it is. If a healthy adult brings any display screen or printed paper or whatever 4 inches (100 mm) from his or her face, the maximum resolution he/she can see at is 2190 ppi/dpi. It doesn't get any better than this for 99.99% of us, except maybe during pre-kindergarten years.

      But the legally accepted norm of 20/20 vision only asks for 876 ppi/dpi at 4 inches!

      But since we don't view things from 4 inches away ...

      Cinema
      The width of a cinema screen can vary from 30 to 70 feet (360' to 840', 9144 mm to 21,336 mm). The closest viewing distance recommended is about 40 feet (3x height) -- 12,192 mm. If one is projecting 2K on these screens, the ppi is about 2.4 ppi to 5.7 ppi. If one is projecting 4K, it is about 5 ppi to 11.4 ppi.

      Is this what the eye needs?

      p@0.4 works out to be 1.4 mm or 18 ppi.
      p@1 works out to be 3.5 mm or 7 ppi.

      As you can see, 4K comes very close to what the human eye can fully resolve in a cinema screen at average viewing distances. Obviously, many people sit in the front row, and they'd definitely appreciate higher resolution. Which is why we are moving towards:

      8K and UHDTV

      A 30 to 70 feet screen at 8K (8192 horizontal) gives me from 9.75 ppi to 22.8 ppi. This resolution beats what the eye can resolve at these distances. The future belongs to 8K.

      But, to get 18 ppi (the best possible resolution) for a 70 feet screen, we'll need a horizontal resolution of 15120 or 16K. This is about 128 Megapixels. Is anybody working on this?

    4. Re:Is there a limit? by Solandri · · Score: 1

      20/20 vision is defined as the ability to distinguish a line pair with one arc-minute (1/60th of a degree) of separation. There's some debate over exactly what that means. This resolution chart on this site is based it meaning 60 pixels per degree. Others argue it means 120 pixels per degree (two pixels needed per arc-minute to show two white lines separated by one arc-minute with a black line in between). But since that's just doubling the 60 pixels per degree standard, you can just halve the resolutions on the chart (i.e. the 1080p section corresponds to 4k, the 4k section corresponds to 8k).

      I also like to point out that holograms require a resolution of about 600-1000 pixels per mm. So this isn't a pointless resolution race we're on. It'll take a few more decades, but GPU and display resolution are slowly creeping up to the point where they'll be able to generate and display holograms in real-time. An 8k display shrunk down would correspond to about a 10x5 mm hologram. (If you don't know how holograms work, this would appear as a 10x5mm "window" that you could look through to view the 3D image "behind" it.)

    5. Re:Is there a limit? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      It depends on distance. The larger the screen and resolution, the further the optimal viewing distance. Thus increasing the screen size and keeping your couch as close to the TV requires more pixel density. At the same time, your frame of vision cannot include the full TV, so you need a further viewing distance for a larger screen.

      SD was optimal for screens smaller than the viewing frame. HD and 4K takes us into screens the size of or larger than the viewing frame--it's higher resolution than the real world.

    6. Re:Is there a limit? by sootman · · Score: 1

      A, I wasn't being sarcastic.
      B. Those charts all include various resolutions.
      C. your question depends on distance. There could be a one-mile red square on the moon and you wouldn't be able to see it from Earth. But at arm's length, you can see a square on your phone that's 1/100th of an inch on each side.

      Here. Enjoy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Bonus: you only get maximum visual acuity in the center ~10-20 degrees of your vision. I'm sitting less than 2 feet from a 27" display. Looking at this text box in the center of the screen, I can't even discern details on the edges. I can't read what's on a post-it note that is stuck to the edge without moving my eyes.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
  10. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by Luthair · · Score: 3, Funny

    Maybe its because you're too busy telling kids to get off your lawn instead of watching TV.

  11. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Maybe because I am outside, and not spending the day watching TV that I don't care.

    I actually don't tell the kids to get off the lawn, just try not to leave anything in the grass that will get shot out the lawnmower :)

    I tell my kids to go outside and play in the yard all the time.

  12. Oh c'mon! 8K on a phone will be so cool! by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

    This is just the beginning.. Watch for 128K

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  13. A new sensory experience by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

    I'll hold out until TVs have Smell-o-vision®

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  14. Re:daily cost of ownership by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    My desktop monitor is 21:9 (actually 64:27) ultra-widescreen. So there are poorer choices for desktop displays in active use.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  15. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  16. You need gold plated monster cables for it by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2

    True, it is all digital. And the cheap 3$ HDMI cable from Alibaba might suffice for the "High" def content. But to handle the 8K steam you need a gold plated, silver core 10 gauge wire HDMI cable from Monster. The zeros would be a perfect circles and the ones would be perfectly straight and vertical no matter how twisty your cable is. You definitely need it for 8k.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:You need gold plated monster cables for it by omnichad · · Score: 1

      The HDMI 2.1 spec offers 48Gbps of bandwidth and really, the increase is more about EMI suppression than it is about conductivity. Maximum cable length will take a hit, but otherwise it's nothing crazy.

  17. Can you see a pixel anyway? by Kludge · · Score: 1

    At these resolutions you have to be within about 2 feet of the screen to resolve a pixel according to my very quick calculations. (Check my calculations someone.)
    That is extra resolution you probably do not need.

    1. Re:Can you see a pixel anyway? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      You can perceive sharpness and detail without seeing a pixel. I couldn't see pixels on my 1080p monitor, but I can still fit a lot more text on my 4K screen without it becoming hard to read. It's true that these will be a lot more useful for information display and non-cinematic content.

    2. Re:Can you see a pixel anyway? by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Google for hdtv resolution chart .
       
      The general math seems to hold up, most people sit about 12' away from their tv (average width of an apartment living room), at that distance 8K becomes economically reasonable when buying a 65" TV.
       
      At that size Right now you can buy a 65" 4K brand name flatscreen on amazon for $999 shipped. 65" 4K is about the upper limit before you begin to lose visible "sharpness". Some might say that 65" is "too big" but we're not especially big consumers of TV (10 hours a week) and definitely saw the value in a large TV. In a moderate size house I think we would upsize to 70 or 75" at which point we would see the value in upgrading to 8K if it were available for a reasonable price. Given how cheap 4K displays are already, I don't see any reason why 8K will not hit the magic $999 mark in the next five years.
       
      16K TVs under 100" though may be the upper limit for casual display technology though. At that point you have a device that is too large to fit comfortably on an average size wall and the physical cost of manufacturing/delivering the device will push the price above the economic ideal. At 65" we have approx 24" from the top of the TV to the ceiling, and 24" from the bottom of the TV to a small table below it. 75" diagonal would occupy most of the remaining vertical space above the table.
       
      Anyways, point is, very large screens are here, and larger screens are coming, 8K is relevant in the 60-90" screen market, which at $999 is affordable for many households these days.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    3. Re:Can you see a pixel anyway? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      With the new OLED displays with PenTile and even with multi-color pixels, how will you count the resolution?

  18. It's for the future, not today. by iamhassi · · Score: 3, Informative

    When 4k came out at five digit prices how much content was available for that? Obviously no one is going to run out to spend $13,000 on a 70" 8k screen. This is for the future, when 100mbit broadband is more common. Remember the cheapest, smallest 4K screens from budget brands like Westinghouse and Hisense were a whopping $4,000-$5,000 in 2013. Those same tvs sell for $300 today. http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/1...

    --
    my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    1. Re:It's for the future, not today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Cool story, bro.

    2. Re:It's for the future, not today. by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Have you considered decaf? Not everyone has the bandwidth (or lack of data caps) to streak 4k from Netflix, either. It doesn't have to be for everyone. Besides, higher def content would be a way to bring back physical media, though of course you'd need something faster than blue ray.

    3. Re:It's for the future, not today. by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I think 4K had a lot more going for it though because cinemas use DCI 4K so ~4K masters exist. Also they threw in Rec. 2020, 10 bit color and HDR into the 4K BluRay standard all of which improve the image considerably. It's hard to see anything else they got left to throw in for 8K except maybe finally standardizing the HDR encoding. And if it's good enough for the whole wall at the cinema, I sorta don't see home users crying for 8K. In fact I did some tests by down-scaling and up-scaling images on my 4K monitor and based on my eyes - which are not perfect - and my couch distance I found that I'd see just a tiny bit of improvement on my 60" 1080p TV if it were 4K.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:It's for the future, not today. by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      Average internet connection speed in the United States in 2007 was 3mbps. In 2017 it was 18. That's 6x more in 10 years. If that rate continues the average internet speed will be able to stream 8k by the time these new tvs drop to reasonable prices. https://www.statista.com/stati...

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
  19. Higher resolution leads to holographic TVs by GWBasic · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Increasing TV resolution like this is a good thing.

    A hologram works by using photographic film capable of photographing the actual light waves. Once we have resolutions better than light's wavelength, we can have holographic TV.

    1. Re:Higher resolution leads to holographic TVs by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

      Increasing TV resolution like this is a good thing.

      A hologram works by using photographic film capable of photographing the actual light waves. Once we have resolutions better than light's wavelength, we can have holographic TV.

      What? Huh? Nope. Nonsense.

    2. Re:Higher resolution leads to holographic TVs by GWBasic · · Score: 1

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...: "The developed hologram's surface consists of a very fine, seemingly random pattern, which appears to bear no relationship to the scene it recorded."

  20. Could be worse by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

    Manufacturers could just go back to the tried-and-true business model: planned obsolescence. I.e. they could go back to shitty quality so things naturally only last a few years (just past the end of the warranty, ideally) so you're forced to buy a new one. As is they're relying on the 'poor shaming' sales strategy, where you're made to feel bad because you aren't being an early adopter.

  21. Don't worry by Yannic · · Score: 1

    They'll just redefine K, and say that we were referring to Ki all along.

  22. Re:Five blades ... by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

    You know, a moderately sized 4k tv is now under $400. that's pretty reasonable, if you're going to be buying a new TV, why not?

    That's the value proposition 8k and beyond will have to meet. BUT before the prices drop that level, manufacturing techniques and process need to improve -- and the only way to do that is.. making obscenely expensive panels that not many people want to buy.

    But, you're right, people aren't going to (for the most part) chuck out a perfectly fine 1080p tv for 8k just because of the newness factor.

  23. Great, now you can count the by fredrated · · Score: 1

    hairs on her ... thing.

  24. Care less about resolution. More about gamut. by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 4, Informative

    8K broadcast standards use Rec 2020, which has a much wider gamut and can therefor show colors that most TVs these days can't. Rec 2020 is even wider than the DCI-P3 that many high-end monitors benchmark against these days.

    Rec 2020 also defines a larger bit depth: 10 or 12 bits per component rather than 8. This is partly to support the wider gamut, but it'll also help everything else by allowing much better gradients.

    Even if you don't have an 8K TV, ones that use HDR10 and Dolby Vision will benefit: both of these standards use the Rec 2020 gamut. So... bring on the 8K revolution. I want better browns.

    1. Re:Care less about resolution. More about gamut. by AbandonAllHope · · Score: 2

      I assumed he was a Cleveland sports fan...

      --
      Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Enter Here
    2. Re:Care less about resolution. More about gamut. by desdinova+216 · · Score: 1

      I don't know if there's any way of doing that without changing the entire front office staff. But that's getting int to sports related discussion

  25. Much better than B&W 480i but content? by k6mfw · · Score: 1

    I have a zillion more channels than back in the Cro-Magnon days but lately there hasn't been much programs that make me compelling to watch them. I don't know if it's me (i.e. they say when you are old you have seen all the old movies and all the old reruns). IEEE Broadcast Techology Society had article mentioning a three-legged stool. Equipment to send TV, equipment to receive it, content that is delivered. Eliminate any one of these three, the stool collapses. I jumped over to the BTS website, some interesting mentions but my first impression all this latest technology is mostly for the people in the business for them to show off to others in the business their latest toys. People that receive content i.e. consumers, they're just there to consume. That is no real reason to produce critically acclaimed programming, entertaining, and or thought provoking programs.

    from https://bts.ieee.org/news/142-...

    “Consumers, quick to adopt new media and ways to tap into it, have come to expect the ability to access sight-and-sound content from any source on any device, anywhere, anytime – whether that content is broadcast over-the-air, delivered via cable, satellite, phone lines or stored at home.”

    “Digital TV was a start in this direction, but the past dozen years have witnessed technology revolutions in nearly every related field and consumer expectations have risen accordingly.”

    --
    mfwright@batnet.com
  26. 8K is still not 100% of higher end cameras by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    I can now display images that are close to 100% zoom from my DSLR (36MP) or similar effective resolution of 35mm film scans.

    8k (7680x432) resolution is still slightly below that at 33.2 megapixels, and because these would be widescreen probably a bit less as the image would either have dead space to either side or be cropped to fill, meaning not nearly 100%. For a higher end 50MP camera you are even further from 100% viewing.

    Also not factoring in things like panoramic and the like even from smartphones which can make good use of that resolution.

    There are still millions and millions of DSLR users that could probably take advantage of 8K resolution for slideshows, so there is some latent demand if the price is reasonable.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:8K is still not 100% of higher end cameras by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      Hence why I said close to 100% zooms. For slide shows these would be awesome as they would be able to deliver on the illusion of almost endless resolution in a photograph but that also would require that the image be taken on a higher end current gen FF camera or top end previous gen FF camera with a good lens and someone capable of taking a shot of that quality. For panoramic images I would want something wall sized and even higher resolution as I have some that are in the 600MP range that I have created. Granted I am still working on my technique so they aren't the best panos but still are pretty nice.

      --
      Time to offend someone
  27. Re: Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want by MightyYar · · Score: 1

    I'm not certain if I can tell 4K from 1080p, but I can definitely tell UHD from HD. I only mention this because the two seem to frequently be paired together.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  28. Desktop Grids by AlanBDee · · Score: 1

    Now we need grids on desktops. As a TV 8k is just a pissing contest, you'd have to be within a few feet to notice any difference. But as a computer monitor having an 8k monitor would be like have 8 1080p monitors in a 2x4 grid. I worked for years with my desktop setup with 4 1080p's setup with one center, one left, one right, and one above; like the tetris piece. It worked very well.

    The problem is that every window would be free floating and that would be time consuming to manage. I'd be nice to be able to define grids that you can "snap" windows to. I remember a linux distro I was playing with years ago, based on xfce I think, that put everything in a grid like that. XOrg saw my four monitors as one screen because that was the only way I could get it use all four screens, using xinerama. It was useful for splitting things up into the four quadrants but now I can't remember what the distro was? Anyone?

    1. Re:Desktop Grids by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      The problem is that every window would be free floating and that would be time consuming to manage. I'd be nice to be able to define grids that you can "snap" windows to.

      Isn't that what tiling window managers are for? They seemed to be all the rage some time ago.

      Personally, I don't really understand the multi-monitor craze. I'm fine with virtual desktops so I can focus properly on one thing at a time. I think the whole point of computers is that you can handle much more information than what's visible at once, and for that to work you need some abstract thinking. In a sense, I want to free my thoughts instead of filling my entire visual field with data. Kind of the same reason why I don't listen to background music and I don't have art on the walls near the workspace.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    2. Re:Desktop Grids by AlanBDee · · Score: 1

      Personally, I don't really understand the multi-monitor craze. I'm fine with virtual desktops so I can focus properly on one thing at a time. I think the whole point of computers is that you can handle much more information than what's visible at once, and for that to work you need some abstract thinking. In a sense, I want to free my thoughts instead of filling my entire visual field with data. Kind of the same reason why I don't listen to background music and I don't have art on the walls near the workspace.

      People think differently. I had a co-worker who only wanted one screen and he gave a very similar example. For me it's important to have a lot of information available at a glance. Otherwise I spend too much time switching between windows and trying to remember what I just saw. I also work best when I am listening to music because it drowns out all other noise that might distract me. All this means is that our brains process information differently.

  29. ...and computers by Immerman · · Score: 2

    Heck, it'd make for an awesome computer screen too. Might be a bit much for most current gaming hardware to drive, but by the time it becomes mainstream I doubt that'll be a problem. In the meantime, it means smoother fonts and crisper images. I'm right at the cusp of upgrading to 4k - they're finally making affordable 40" 4k TVs (about the largest screen I'd want at arm's length), I'm just waiting for the improvements to slow enough that I don't get buyer's remorse right away as next month's models significantly improves quality at the same price point.

    But even a "small" 40" screen has visible pixels at arm's length, another doubling in dpi should push detail down below the obvious perceptual threshold.
    And of course if you're getting a bigger screen, which are increasingly popular, then you'll notice that 8k improvement even at larger distances.

    Heck, even video will improve - you don't need higher resolution *content* to appreciate a higher resolution *screen* - all you need is a decent upscaling algorithm. I mean sure, even excellent upscaling isn't going to make a DVD look as good as Blue-Ray, but it can make it look a lot better than it did on a CRT.

    Of course, even 4k is more detail than you really need for a movie unless you have a rather obscenely large TV, or like sitting quite close to it - but hey, video buffs need love too! And hey, it's not even like audio enthusiasts don't get anything for their money with those oxygen-free gold-plated audio cables. Sure, the sound is physically indistinguishable, but the placebo effect improves the subjective experience anyway.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    1. Re:...and computers by jwhyche · · Score: 1

      4K monitors are not as great as you think they are. I upgraded to a samsung 28" monitor a year ago thinking the same thing. To actually be able to see anything I had to increase the UI to 150% of normal. So basically I had the same amount of deskspace just on a bigger monitor.

      It does pretty good when I need to put a whole page of text on a screen but I imagine that could be done on a standard HD 28" screen.

      Don't get me wrong, if you can get one get it. It does help with somethings. Just don't think it will be a night and day difference.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    2. Re:...and computers by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      It makes fonts a lot more readable, especially at small sizes. How valuable is even just a 10% increase in text scanning speed?

      It also makes word processors / DTP look much better because the on screen kerning looks right at 4k.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:...and computers by geoskd · · Score: 2

      4K monitors are not as great as you think they are. I upgraded to a samsung 28" monitor a year ago thinking the same thing. To actually be able to see anything I had to increase the UI to 150% of normal.

      The smallest that a 4k screen is really practical as a computer monitor is at about 36". Anything less and you have to bump up the UI settings as you indicated, so you're basically wasting the extra pixel density.

      For 8k monitors, the smallest practical size to see the benefit will be at about 70".

      This may sound crazy, but there are plenty of use cases for a desktop surface that large, and none of them have anything to do with gaming. The most important use I have is for CAD and software development. Even with my current 4k system, both of those task are somewhat tedious. For CAD, having the entire file open and visible at once without having to zoom and scroll all of the time saves me a huge pain in the ass. For software development, I have so many windows open with so many things I want to pay attention to, that dual 4k screens still get cluttered. A single 8k would have double the window height which would give me the ability to keep event the longest functions visible in their entirety. Once any reasonably large 8k screen and video card are available for less than $5k, they will get my money.

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    4. Re:...and computers by Immerman · · Score: 1

      I'm not interested in increasing my desktop space - I currently have a 40" 1080p screen, and it's already almost too large. I'm still debating about going slightly smaller when I replace it.

      What I want is higher resolution (dpi) at the same size - I already have fonts and everything else scaled to my desired physical size, I want them to render with fewer "jaggies", which makes an enormous difference in comfort when writing, programming, doing CAD work, etc. for extended periods. As it is, I've essentially got a 2x2 seamless 20" monitor setup, with each running at only 960x540 - it hearkens back to the early SVGA days.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    5. Re:...and computers by Immerman · · Score: 1

      >For 8k monitors, the smallest practical size to see the benefit will be at about 70".

      Bull. A 4k 40" monitor is the equivalent of a 2x2 seamless array of 20" 1080p monitors, and 1080p is a rather lousy resolution for a 20" monitor - you could get considerably better than that in the late 90s. It's only 110 dpi, you still clearly see the jaggies at arm's length. Even newsprint quality is 200 dpi, and magazine quality is typically 300dpi - or roughly equivalent to a hypothetical "12k" resolution on a 40" monitor.

      Of course you have to adjust the UI settings to compensate, assuming they don't scale automatically to maintain a fixed physical size - but those are a tiny portion of what's visible on screen. At a given physical font height the quality will increase dramatically. Consider - your average paperback has an "M" height of less than 4mm - go ahead and try setting your font height to that on your monitor - it'll be much less pleasant to read. Why? Because the resolution (dpi) just isn't sufficient to avoid horrible rendering artifacts.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    6. Re:...and computers by OneAhead · · Score: 1

      I want them to render with fewer "jaggies", which makes an enormous difference in comfort when writing

      Pah! You young people have it easy. In my days, the jaggies were as large as a grown man's head. And they went uphill both ways!

    7. Re:...and computers by OneAhead · · Score: 1

      I currently have a 40" 1080p screen,

      That's called a TV. You must have bought it at the wrong section in Best Buy. Understandable mistake, now that the connectors are the same. :-D

    8. Re:...and computers by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Nope - a TV is used for watching TV broadcasts. This one is used as an interface to my computers, and is therefore a monitor. The "TV" label on the box was only there to appeal to the larger mass-market. ;-)

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    9. Re:...and computers by OneAhead · · Score: 1

      The items marketed as TVs generally have a large size and low resolution because they're meant to be viewed at a longer distance than computer screens (and because most content viewed on a TV doesn't surpass 1080p anyway). Conversely, the items marketed as computer monitors are generally smaller; as you say, sitting at arm's length from a 40" screen won't allow you to keep everything in the usable portion of your field of view (technically, the macula and its immediate surroundings). Computer monitors (for office use, as opposed to entertainment) also typically have higher resolutions than TV in order to allow you to make the most of said usable-portion-of-FOV.

      You probably had your tongue planted in your cheek when writing the post I originally replied to, but just in case you didn't, I'd like to point out that if you insist on using a TV for a computer monitor, you don't get to complain about an almost-too-big viewing area and horrible jaggies. It is also an incredibly poor choice specifically for "writing, programming, doing CAD work". Do yourself a favor and get an actual computer monitor (if at all possible); my head starts hurting just to think about anyone having to do that kind of work on a 1080p 40" TV. I can't stand to sit in front of something lower than 80 ppi the whole day (you're at 55...), and 80 ppi is already well below the point where most people would be inclined to zoom out or decrease their font size, but cannot because the pixels are too coarse. By that logic, 1080p displays don't gain any (for-work) usefulness above 25". Personally, I go for 25" or 27" QHD to get a fair working experience without breaking the bank.

    10. Re:...and computers by houghi · · Score: 1

      I have three 27" 4K monitors. I basically stick to something that is not that different than what I had on 1920x1080 as content. On one side it would be great to have that al on one screen, on the other hand, I do like that I have 3 monitors and can have multiple desktops on each monitor.

      And the reason I use three screens instead of two is that way I have one in the middle.

      Most of the time one screen is basically a TV hwre esome show or YouTube is running and I actually do some work on the other two.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    11. Re:...and computers by Immerman · · Score: 1

      You do make some excellent points - except for the macula bit. You can only actually see well enough to read easily in the fovea, an area covering only a couple degrees. The illusion of a wider range of such extreme visual acuity is due to mostly-subconscious visual saccades - you're moving your eyes constantly regardless, the trick is to arrange things so that in any immediate context you're generally only working on a small area. On a traditional desk you're usually only working on one 8.5x11 sheet of paper at any given moment - but that doesn't mean having a large desk to spread out on so everything is available at a glance doesn't bring benefits.

      Besides, I grew up in the bad old days. Atari, Commodore 64, Doom at 320x240. A 15" 640x480 screen (53dpi) was a huge step up. A 40" screen was mostly indulging the inner child who dreamed of gaming on a BIG screen - and it served that role well. And to someone who grew up programming with 8-pixel high bitmapped fonts, the jaggies are tolerable in exchange for the sheer amount of code I can fit on one screen. Especially when using a font specifically designed for programming with small font sizes. Like I said, when I bought the thing, you couldn't buy a higher resolution 40" screen without winning the lottery. Heck, at $1000 on sale it was more than I could really afford, at least 4x more expensive than any previous monitor I had bought, and cheaper than most 30" monitors - pretty much all of which were still only 1080p anyway since this was in the Dark Times when CRTs had been abandoned, and LCD manufacture had fallen completely under these sway of the exploding HD TV market. I've been waiting ever since for advancing technology and a limited budget to intersect at a point where it makes sense to upgrade.

      Oh, and as for CAD and the like - how much do you do where the presence or absence of jaggies makes a FUNCTIONAL difference? Yes, jaggies make everything less pretty, but except in rare regions of high complexity that doesn't actually interfere with workflow. Meanwhile the sheer amount of screen real estate allows me to maintain a considerably larger overview while working on features drawn at, say, a 1" physical size.

      Yes, it was very much a conscious compromise. But as for not being able to complain - I say bull. Yes, I could have bought a smaller monitor, but that's just a different set of compromises, and I reserve the right to complain about having to compromise. Especially in the context of celebrating the beginning of the end of the need for such compromise.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    12. Re:...and computers by Immerman · · Score: 1

      >You won't believe the amount of shit you can display across four 27" screens of 1920x1080.

      Less than you can across a single seamless 54" monitor of 3840x2160 - which gives you the same dpi but more flexibility of apportionment. Unless of course you have a particular use for a wide or tall layout.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  30. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

    doesn't deserve to own one. Turn in your man card immediately.

    Anyone who doesn't understand why you shouldn't buy an 8K TV at this time should turn in their brain immediately. Seriously, some broadcast TV signals are not even in 1080p much less 4K. UltraHD Blurays only get up to 4K and you can't get it for every title. Eventually people might get 8K but only after there is considerable content and broadband that can handle it is ubiquitous. I'm going to guess maybe 10 years from now would 8K be worth it.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  31. 4K in Movie Theaters by crow · · Score: 1

    Most movie theaters now use digital projectors, and those are typically either 2K or 4K. Even IMAX digital is 2K or 4K. I don't usually hear people complaining about the resolution in theaters, so I have trouble seeing how going to 8K will improve the home experience.

  32. Re:I'm 40 by hey! · · Score: 1

    There's the other Procrustean solution. Samsung makes a 110 inch TV that is 1.8 meters high and 2.6 meters across. It's built to order and will set you back 15 million won.

    Even at UHD resolution with middle-aged vision, you should be able to dissatisfying yourself from at least arm's length.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  33. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by silverkniveshotmail. · · Score: 2

    I have a 1080 tv and a 2160 set, the 2160 looks a lot better but it's also 10 years newer. These anecdotes are useless.

  34. Re:daily cost of ownership by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

    I had a CRT like that. It worked. It was also fuzzy as hell--they degrade over time. The cheap 32-diagonal HDTV I bought is almost as old, and still quite clear--also, doesn't get fuzzy if line power is unconditioned (which had an impact on an old CRT, hence why I always had TV on UPS).

  35. How about an 8K projector? by mysidia · · Score: 1

    All those extra pixels will go to waste on such a tiny little "big" screen TV...... On the other hand, imagine how cool 8K
    would look projected onto a 400-inch wide x 300-inch high rectangle on the wall.

    1. Re:How about an 8K projector? by wafflemonger · · Score: 1
  36. Streaming by TJHook3r · · Score: 1

    At that bitrate it will take me a week to download a weekly show :(

  37. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

    It used to be true that people would purchase a television and keep it until it broke down 10, 15, 20 years later - then they'd buy another one.

    Now these companies are trying to get us to buy new TVs as often as we buy new phones.

    I've got a 1080P LG television we bought 2012-ish. I don't care if the new TVs are somehow "better" than the one I've got - mine works fine and the display looks good. I'm likely keeping it for as long as it continues to function.

    Now, kindly remove yourself from my lawn.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  38. If you don't know you need it then you don't. by BlueCoder · · Score: 1

    This is for early adopters and content creators. Compression formats are not linear. You can get some extra contrast from existing films on such a display. If your a content creator then you want to see how a particular compression format and it's options will display on future TV's. You want to be able to see artifacts. You might not be able to detect the difference between two sets of options unless you see compare them at a higher resolution. Furthermore displays like this are very useful for medical imaging right now.

    1. Re:If you don't know you need it then you don't. by Goragoth · · Score: 1

      8k monitors are also great for working on 4k content. That way you can view your content at 1:1 while still having room for the UI around it when working in Premiere/AfterFX/whatever.

  39. Re: Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want by JamesChildress · · Score: 1

    If you sit at the right distance you can. I sit abour 5 feet from a 65" 4k TV and I can see the pixels.

  40. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    Beyond resolution I expect the UHD TV look better, just because of newer displaying technologies. Brigher OLED, better angles on LCD.
    The color contrast on a 1080 OLED can give an over all better experience then a LCD 4k monitor.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  41. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

    Unless you're purchasing an extremely large TV and viewing it from a pretty close distance, 8K TVs will never be worth it, because you won't even see the difference.

    It might eventually become mainstream simply due to manufacturing ease of only supporting a single resolution, similar to how almost all new TVs are 4K, even small ones. But I'm still not certain 8K will really ever take hold. I think 4K may end up becoming that ubiquitous "good enough" point beyond which remains only niche products.

    --
    Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
  42. There will be naysayers.... by JamesChildress · · Score: 1

    There will be those who say what is the point, you can't see the pixels anyway? This is only partially true. Yes, even if you sat at the closest comfortable distance, I would agree the pixels would be difficult to detect. Where an 8k display would shine is reducing jagged edges(aliasing) from straight lines that are still visible at 4k. Also 8k will do for 4k what 4k did for 1080p content with improved appearance from upscaling. It doesn't matter that native 8k content might not be practical to deliver for several years. For home theater entusiast, this will improve their viewing experience.

  43. Solid State Movies? by bpetty · · Score: 1

    Hopefully we can get away from these stupid spinning disks. They waste electricity, are slow, get scratched and smudged... give me a solid state movie!

  44. Looking forward to it. by Charcharodon · · Score: 1
    Sounds awesome, keep it coming.

    Maybe if the resolutions keep running away from bandwidth rates we could have one or hopefully two changes in the market.

    The first is do away with streaming only. Fine keep your copy protect nonsense, but let me download the content or at least buffer it to watch at my leisure on any device. I get tired of not being able to watch anything if the network is being flaky.

    The obvious second item is no more excuses, but GB connections should be basic service not something we might get in another decade or two. Same goes for wireless bring the 5G online already.

  45. Re: Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want by lgw · · Score: 2

    No doubt, if you press your nose to the screen you can see the difference. 8K is really a theater projector standard: in order to see the difference between 4K and 8K, the screen will more than fill your field of color vision. If you're sitting closer than most people find comfortable, such as the front row of a movie theater, or 5 feet from a screen with a diagonal larger than that, then you'll see the difference.

    At a common viewing distance for a given screen size, you can't see the difference, but that's not all use cases.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  46. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by Hadlock · · Score: 1

    8K hits the value curve around the 65" display size @ 12 ft. Most people view their TV 10-12 ft away, and 65" TV are becoming increasingly more common. You can get quality name brand 4K 65" shipped to your house for $999 online these days.
     
    8K (or maybe settle for 6K?) will certainly be worth it, but 16K is actually ludicrous mode. 8K is probably the upper limit, whereas 4K is merely "really good".

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
  47. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by Charcharodon · · Score: 1
    I don't know what you are talking about but I can easily see the pixels standing in front of my 40ft wide jumbotron.

    Its not just the screen being high resolution that is interesting, but the push in the video cards to be able to display those resolutions.

    I'm holding out for wall sized touch screen monitors where 8K would be very handy.

  48. Funny as in ha ha. by Charcharodon · · Score: 1
    I do laugh though. I have been alive long enough to hear this same argument over and over again for 35 years starting with the monochrome vs 4 color displays.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    More is better. You may not appreciate it but your grandkids will love that 400" 8K "cheep" wall display you get them for Christmas in 2028 to play their games on.

  49. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by sexconker · · Score: 1

    Relevant Futurama:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    There's also the one with the tattoo that we can't see because of our low resolution.

  50. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by sexconker · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty much the same, except that my 4K OLED kicks the shit out of my 1080p IPS for all other aspects of image quality, not just resolution. So even when I'm half asleep at the back of the room lying on the couch without glasses, the 4K OLED is miles better.

  51. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by sexconker · · Score: 1

    Unless you're purchasing an extremely large TV and viewing it from a pretty close distance, 4K TVs will never be worth it, because you won't even see the difference.

    It might eventually become mainstream simply due to manufacturing ease of only supporting a single resolution, similar to how almost all new TVs are 1080p, even small ones. But I'm still not certain 4K will really ever take hold. I think 1080p may end up becoming that ubiquitous "good enough" point beyond which remains only niche products.

    You were saying?

  52. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

    OLED displays have fantastic color reproduction. Too bad they also have durability issues.

  53. 100% bullshit by sit1963nz · · Score: 1

    8K TVs are 100% marketing bullshit.
    Your eyes and your brain will not allow you to tell the difference between that and 1080 when the picture is moving.
    The TV industry needs something to sell to suckers. 3D TV is dead, Smart TVs are dead, Curved screens are dead, roll out the next marketing wankfest.

    This is no better than an "Eat all you want" restaurant saying you can now "Eat Twice as much"

  54. 8k is the new 4k by Cid+Highwind · · Score: 1

    "...a video format that offers next to nothing to watch, that can't be streamed on most broadband connections or fit onto ... discs and which can't even be properly appreciated unless you get a set too big to fit in many living rooms."

    I'm pretty sure we said the exact same things about 4k and 1080p screens...

    --
    0 1 - just my two bits
  55. PLEASE buy them! by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    I need a cheaper 8k curved monitor and if the suckers don't buy them I won't be able to buy them!
    Think about it-- a curved 40" would make a great computer display. under 50" but over 40" - with more curve than the TVs currently have.
    Actually, the ideal would be curved in both directions...

    I'll probably just end up with 2 vertical displays with 4k each. it won't be good for some things (games/movies) but for work it will be great. curved probably needed... because at that height it's a bit of a problem.

  56. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by unrtst · · Score: 1

    Unless you're purchasing an extremely large TV and viewing it from a pretty close distance, 8K TVs will never be worth it, because you won't even see the difference.

    Is no one using these for monitors?

    I need to replace a 30" 2160x1600 monitor (and maybe my seconds screen as well, a 20" 1600x1200 which, when rotated, lines up perfectly with the 30"). A single 4k screen is not enough to replace both of those (and I do make full use of both), but it also makes little sense to get 2x 4k's... if I get them big enough for the 4k to be worth it, then total display width is too big; if I get them smaller, then I lose physical display size. A single large 8k screen could be perfect, especially if it's curved.

    I know we're not there on price yet for the 8k's, but I haven't seen one person mention using them as a monitor, and multiple people have said they'll never be worth it, and that seems awfully short sighted.

  57. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by flargleblarg · · Score: 1

    My god, are you from the 18th century?

  58. The future is here, old man by mi · · Score: 1

    than a jaggy aliased edge on a 1080p display

    The day had come, when 1080p is denounced as "jaggy" and "aliased" :)

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  59. Re: Finally, we'll be able to watch by desdinova+216 · · Score: 1

    it's probably already out there because of rule 34

  60. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by silverkniveshotmail. · · Score: 1

    My 1080 TV is an LG that I still use and was purchased in 2008, so you get off of my lawn.

  61. Not Good Enough by GlennC · · Score: 1

    I'm going to hold out for 640K...that should be enough for anybody.

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    Go on, citizen, stamp the vote card. R or D, your choice.
  62. Re: Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want by unrtst · · Score: 1

    I don't know how you came up with that question. Resolution is independent of physical size, but you're mixing the two into an incomprehensible question.

  63. What is the point, Many Broadcasts are still 720P by captainstormy · · Score: 1

    We still have a good number of networks broadcasting in 720P and they think I'm going to buy an 8K TV? ABC, Big 10 Network, ESPN (and all their channels), Fox, Fox Sports, MLB network, SEC Network, National Geo, FX and Disney are all still broadcasting in 720P. Most Blu Rays people own aren't even 4K yet and many people can't even reliably stream 4K videos due to either speed or data caps. Maybe I'm just getting old (I am, I'm pushing 35 now). What is the point though? The industry still hasn't even fully caught up to 1080, little yet 4K. Now they think we should go to 8K.

  64. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

    I am on TV number 4 since 2000. 2 of those are in use today, a 1080P plasma and a 4K UHD OLED. The 4K UHD OLED is absolutely awesome for 1 main reason: passive 3D. Other than that, for anything 1080P, it's a pretty rough draw between the sets. True 4K UHD content does look amazing.

    --
    The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  65. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

    Unless you're purchasing an extremely large TV and viewing it from a pretty close distance, 8K TVs will never be worth it, because you won't even see the difference.

    Personally I think TVs the size of walls might be cool as they could display high resolution landscape scenes.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  66. 42" with GPU under $3K by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    That's my metric. I'm finally buying the dream monitor I've wanted since 1990. I figured 30 years and darned if it won't be close to that.

    I've always waited for cheaper units because they were always going to be upgraded but with an 8K this size I honestly cannot imagine a use I would have for more.

    Maybe direct retinal projection some day, but no more screens. Yay.

    --
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    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  67. I'm good. by BadTuna · · Score: 1

    Haven't bought in to the 4k hype.

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    Your sig here!
  68. Likely to go the way of 3D TV by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    I saw a prototype recently at the Yodobashi-Akiba Tokyo "nerd mall", and it was quite cool from a technical standpoint, but the cool-ness may not carry over to the practical side.

    I have lousy eyesight even with glasses, don't want to pay significantly more for extra resolution, and seeing every mole, zit, and crevice on faces creeps me out. Further, super-hi-res content is currently sparse.

    I don't see a real need for this, other than bragging rights. Maybe normal consumers have a different take? Or maybe they figure there are enough rich consumers who buy high-end out of habit.

  69. Re: Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want by Brockmire · · Score: 1

    Whoosh.

  70. Re: Finally, we'll be able to watch by Brockmire · · Score: 1

    That's already a problem. I wondered why acne on porn girls is so much worse than I see in real life, without professional makeup artists working on them. I figured it's either drugs, or maybe the California/Florida sun?

  71. Meh by Jeremi · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm going to wait for the 16K screens to come out. I calculate that will finally be enough pixels to make "The Emoji Movie" watchable.

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    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    1. Re:Meh by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 1

      Since 7680 = "8K", "16K" will be 15,360 pixels, which rounds down to "15K". Maybe they'll stop vastly exceeding human vision at "8K" before getting sued.

  72. Re:Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want o by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

    Monitors and TVs have very different use cases. I don't think you should infer that if someone claims that 8K TVs are pointless for most people that they also believe 8K monitors are also pointless.

    Clearly not everyone needs an 8K monitor, but there are certainly many people for whom it would be very useful. Like you said, you can increase the size and replace multiple monitors, which seems pretty handy.

    --
    Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
  73. Re:how about a good small TV by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    not looking forward to removing old TV, I think I am now too old to lift it, lol

    Oh, man, bad memories.

    Going backwards, our TV purchases have been

    2012, 47” LG 1080p flatscreen
    2005, 32” Sony 720p flatscreen
    ~1990, 27” Zenith “picture tube” (not 100% sure of the brand)

    When we got the Sony, the Zenith went out to the spare room. When we got the LG, the Sony went to the spare room and the Zenith got shifted to a neglected corner. That beast weighed something like 80-90 pounds, and its shape was awkward as all get out! I kept it for a long while simply because I didn’t want to carry it more than a few feet.

    Finally, I loaded up on Advil and hauled the beast away to the electronics recycler.

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    #DeleteChrome
  74. Plank length by Thelaststraw · · Score: 1

    I for one can't wait until they get Plank length resolution. So realistic, you'd swear it was real life.

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    Nothing to see here, move along please.
  75. Never going to be useful by _Shorty-dammit · · Score: 2

    There's never going to be TVs big enough *and* cheap enough for the home to actually make good use of 4k, and 8k TV will never be useful in the home, period. You'll need way too big of a TV, and that'll never happen.

    https://blogs-images.forbes.co...

  76. Re: Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want by NeoMorphy · · Score: 1

    I agree that oled is a lot better than lcd. Unfortunately they are also a lot more expensive.

    I recently bought a new 65" with "full-array local-dimming LED LCDs", which allows for a HUGE difference in lighting. Something oled and plasma have always done better than backlit lcd. They still do it better, they can light one pixel while lcd cannot. An example where it shows would be a scene in outer space where it should be either black or stars/planets/moons (extreme contrast). But most TV's have light pollution surrounding everything.

    My other TV is only 6 years old and the difference is amazing. Whenever flashlights or other high contrast light sources are used it jumps out of the screen in comparison. If oled comes down in price, that might be my next upgrade down the line

  77. Re: Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want by JDevers · · Score: 1

    I live in Arkansas (not exactly Times Square) and I have a 1 GBps synchronous FTTH connection for $80 a month. Next year we have been told 10 GBps will be available, I probably wonâ(TM)t upgrade because I can rarely find many sites that can saturate my current connection. Fast connections ARE available, just not everywhere.

  78. BS by jf_moreira · · Score: 1

    8K? I laugh at this. 4K was already enough BS. I just bought two new HD TVs, no need to 4K ever in my home, just like it was with 3D TVs. Such BS companies do trying to sell you things you don't need. Just steer away from those and you'll be fine.

  79. Re: Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

    The 2020 olympics will be broadcast in 8k in japan, so it'll probably be available as a stream in some other countries.

    Yes but in different countries, the resolution is up to the licensee when it comes to broadcast TV. So NBC in the US has to broadcast in 8K which is not yet part of any broadcast standard. In the US and Canada, the implemented ATSC standard does not support resolutions above 1080p. While the FCC has approved newer versions of ATSC, they have not been implemented yet. Certainly NBC could show the Olympics in 2020 on cable at 8K and restrict broadcast to 1080p but I doubt that they would put in the time and expense to do that because the issue there is that the cable companies have to support 8K cable boxes. Considering those cheap bastards won't upgrade my 10+ year old cable box, I don't see it happening.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  80. Re: Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want by peragrin · · Score: 1

    Does your cable company broadcast in 4k? Most of mine are in SD with the major ones in HD.

    I can't watch sports in HD due to licensing issues of my regional cable company.

    Why buy a 4K or 8K tv when my 1080P is barely getting used to spec.

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    i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
  81. Depressing by strikethree · · Score: 1

    The "article" is dismissive of this upgrade in resolution, the same as for 4k.

    What the fuck people?!

    I do not care if my eye can not distinguish individual pixels. I actually WANT that to be a feature. I have a 4k monitor for my computer and it is WAY better than 1080p. Ok. Nobody has eyes that can see the difference right?

    So let me tell you a quick little story: A friend was bringing over his cat while he was going out of town for a bit. He walked in the door of my apartment and IMMEDIATELY commented on my computer monitor. He was roughly 10 meters away from the monitor and he already knew something was different about it. He couldn't tell what was different, but he wanted my monitor immediately. From 10 meters away. Where no difference can be seen. Right?

    I do not watch "tv". I don't care if there is ANY content at 4k or 8k. I want my monitors to have the highest resolution possible. I will buy an 8k monitor as soon as reasonably possible.

    If y'all are happy with fuzzy crap, be my guest, but please stop whining about "progress".

    --
    "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  82. Re: Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want by KingMotley · · Score: 1

    I think you are confused. UHD is 4k, and HD is (often) 1080p. I think you meant to say that you can tell the difference between SDR and HDR.

  83. Re: Anyone that doesn't understand why you'd want by MightyYar · · Score: 1

    Yes, thanks for the correction - that is what I meant.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.