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Windows 10 April 2018 Update is Coming On April 30 (venturebeat.com)

The next major update to Windows 10 -- called Windows 10 April 2018 Update -- finally has a release date. From a report: Microsoft today announced that the free Windows 10 April 2018 Update (previously rumored to be called the Windows 10 Spring Creators Update) will begin rolling out on April 30, 2018. For those keeping track, this update is Windows 10 build 17134.

Windows 10 is a service, meaning it was built in a very different way from its predecessors so it can be regularly updated with not just fixes, but new features, too. Microsoft has released four major updates so far: November Update, Anniversary Update, Creators Update, and Fall Creators Update. The fifth one will be out on Monday.

132 of 214 comments (clear)

  1. What are you going to break this time? by Vihai · · Score: 2, Insightful

    New and improved breakage!

  2. More things will break by omnichad · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Oh and I get to set my default browser back to Chrome and my preferred PDF reader back to Adobe Reader.

    1. Re:More things will break by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      and reinstall your manufacturer's video drivers, rerun shutup10 to turn windows shit off, etc, etc.. this, of course, after 4 failed attempts to download and install, breaking when it finally does try to install, reinstalling from scratch, and sucking-up 30+ gigabytes of your monthly quota and a week of your time in the process.

    2. Re:More things will break by greenwow · · Score: 1

      And changing your default search engine to Bing. Google is becoming more like Bing by showing unrelated search results for more and more synonyms and close spellings if you don't include search terms in quotes, but it's still so much better even with those newish problem.

    3. Re:More things will break by movdqa · · Score: 2

      What is shutup10? Sounds interesting.

    4. Re:More things will break by sexconker · · Score: 1

      A program that presents on/off toggles for turning off dozens of the various Windows 10 "features" such as forced updates, "telemetry", etc.

      It doesn't install anything, it just serves as a map to and simple control for a bunch of the settings you would otherwise have to hunt for in various Windows 10 settings menus, the registry, powershell, etc. It also has a recommendation for whether or not something is safe to turn off, or whether it can impact things you might use.

    5. Re:More things will break by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Slow ring just got the 28th update pushed and I haven't had any of that happen yet. Then again I've seen 4 pushes in the last 2 weeks and none of that happened, but I do know the update you're talking about. Drivers now...that's a different story.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    6. Re:More things will break by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Preview my own generated documents before sending them off. Have to make sure of what they look like before they go out to people.

      It's a lot less punishment than using Edge, at the very least.

    7. Re:More things will break by K10W · · Score: 1

      A program that presents on/off toggles for turning off dozens of the various Windows 10 "features" such as forced updates, "telemetry", etc.

      It doesn't install anything, it just serves as a map to and simple control for a bunch of the settings you would otherwise have to hunt for in various Windows 10 settings menus, the registry, powershell, etc. It also has a recommendation for whether or not something is safe to turn off, or whether it can impact things you might use.

      problem is MS ignores some settings regardless of value set and leaks the info anyway. May wanna look it up and makes sure it honours the setting for the things you want or find another way to block it.

  3. Nice... by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1, Interesting

    it can be regularly updated with not just fixes, but new features, too.

    Sure - new "features". I bet that includes, (if it hasn't already), disabling / removing applications without regard to the customer's wishes, and/or turning off a previously free application or feature until the customer pays for it.

    I'm so glad I was able to leave the Windows ecosystem behind. For all the flaws I find in Linux, I'm so, so grateful for it, and for the people who keep it alive. Any time I have to use Windows, I feel vaguely unclean.

    --
    'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    1. Re:Nice... by barc0001 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >Any time I have to use Windows, I feel vaguely unclean.

      Be careful you don't cut yourself on that edge there. One of the reasons Linux is having trouble taking off as a mainstream desktop is because of the mental image projected by comments like yours above. None of what you've 'prophesied' has come to pass in Win10 updates, so unless/until it does you sound like a crank, and by association that paints general Linux users in the same hue with current Windows users who encounter comments like that.

      How about we stick to legitimate, factual criticisms of Windows, as there are tons of those?

    2. Re:Nice... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Earlier versions of Win 10 were known for removing "incompatible" apps without user permission, often random stuff like SFTP clients. As far as apps being moved to a paid model, look at something as stupid as Solitaire. Free in Windows 7, pay to remove ads in Windows 10. Not only pay, but pay $10 a year to remove ads.

    3. Re:Nice... by darkain · · Score: 2

      To counter this, look at One Note. Microsoft just moved it from Office (paid) to part of Windows (free). The things people are constantly bitching about are bad decisions from two years ago that have already been corrected: such as the ability to easily disable telemetry now, or the ability to set "working hours" in which Windows will not update / restart itself because it may interfere with daily activities. Microsoft has actively been listening and correcting these issues that customers have massively complained about. Why has this not held true in the overall Linux world with SystemD? Myself and countless others have already made the jump away from Linux because of it, to other things like FreeBSD and Illumos.

    4. Re:Nice... by CanHasDIY · · Score: 4, Interesting

      To counter this, look at One Note. Microsoft just moved it from Office (paid) to part of Windows (free).

      Microsoft account required, so only "free" in the sense that it doesn't cost money.

      the ability to easily disable telemetry now

      Not really, the OS still tries to talk to the telemetry servers even if you disable all reporting options.

      the ability to set "working hours" in which Windows will not update / restart itself because it may interfere with daily activities

      To be fair, that never should have been an issue in the first place.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    5. Re:Nice... by barc0001 · · Score: 1

      >As far as apps being moved to a paid model, look at something as stupid as Solitaire. Free in Windows 7, pay to remove ads in Windows 10

      I knew someone was going to mention Solitare! So if you offer a free app in your OS, you are obligated till the end of time to enhance, update and include it free in all future versions of the OS? Especially something as irrelevant as a card game?

    6. Re:Nice... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Sell the damn app, don't nickel-and-dime people for $1.50 a month here, $2.50 there.

    7. Re:Nice... by Calydor · · Score: 1

      Enhance and update? No.

      Include the basic version that is already done and paid for since Windows 3.1? Sure.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    8. Re:Nice... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Free in Windows 7, pay to remove ads in Windows 10.

      So what you are saying is it's a game that was never free in Windows 10 to begin with making the earlier comment completely invalid? Gotchya.

    9. Re:Nice... by WaffleMonster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So what you are saying is it's a game that was never free in Windows 10 to begin with making the earlier comment completely invalid? Gotchya.

      You know you are a hopeless MS fanboy when you find yourself defending Microsoft making Mine sweeper and Solitaire pay apps.

    10. Re:Nice... by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      >As far as apps being moved to a paid model, look at something as stupid as Solitaire. Free in Windows 7, pay to remove ads in Windows 10

      I knew someone was going to mention Solitare! So if you offer a free app in your OS, you are obligated till the end of time to enhance, update and include it free in all future versions of the OS? Especially something as irrelevant as a card game?

      Well, that skips just a few interim possibilities there, doesn't it? Let's not forget that MS played all kinds of sketchy games with 'consent' when it came to updating lots of Windows 7 users to Windows 10; it wasn't exactly a truly conscious opt-in decision for many.

      Possibility #1: leaving it in for users who upgraded from Windows 7/8.
      Possibility #2: copy/pasting the same Solitaire release from Windows 8 to Windows 10. No enhancements, no updates. just inclusion of already-completed code that costs them $0, with the new-and-improved Solitaire available in the store.
      Possibility #3: copy/paste the Win7 Solitaire release code,but have it give an ad for the new one in the Store when users close it out.
      Possibility #4: don't-delete the legacy code when windows users explicitly re-add it.
      https://www.reddit.com/r/Windo...
      Possibility #5: Make a base level version available as a one-time purchase and a premium version an annual fee.

      I just came up with five options off the top of my head that don't involve MS having to write new code for free, forever.

    11. Re:Nice... by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      I knew someone was going to mention Solitare! So if you offer a free app in your OS, you are obligated till the end of time to enhance, update and include it free in all future versions of the OS? Especially something as irrelevant as a card game?

      The OP said " turning off a previously free application or feature until the customer pays for it.. Solitaire was given as an example of that, which indeed it is whether you think it is important or not.

      I would not have blamedf MS if they had simply dropped it as old hat or "irrelevant", or perhaps left it as an optional free download. But by starting to charge for it after all these years is petty money-grubbing typical of MS and shows they think nothing irrelevant if they can squeeze even a little bit of money out of it.

    12. Re:Nice... by tepples · · Score: 1

      All medical equipment, all ATMs, every single factory automation system, every single biomedical device interfaces with windows.

      "Interfaces with" is a very broad term. Anything that speaks a standard network protocol that an application made for or ported to Windows also speaks can be said to "interface with" Windows.

      Now as for health care stuff actually running on GNU/Linux, look at these free health record databases. The VA's VistA can run on anything that runs MUMPS, and there are distributions of the VistA that run on an Ubuntu VM.

      The computer you're typing on was made because of Windows.

      That's quite a "stretch" of logic, especially as I type this comment into a Lenovo ThinkPad X61 running Debian 9. Could you explain your reasoning?

    13. Re:Nice... by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

      >As far as apps being moved to a paid model, look at something as stupid as Solitaire. Free in Windows 7, pay to remove ads in Windows 10

      I knew someone was going to mention Solitare! So if you offer a free app in your OS, you are obligated till the end of time to enhance, update and include it free in all future versions of the OS? Especially something as irrelevant as a card game?

      Yes, you are... or it's basically preinstalled bloatware on an OS that a customer already paid for when they bought the license. A smoother approach would have been for MS to remove it and resell a fancier version as SolitarePlus.

      Go ahead and act indignant, but don't be surprised when MS starts charging $1 each time you open Word.

    14. Re:Nice... by barc0001 · · Score: 1

      > The OP said " turning off a previously free application or feature until the customer pays for it.. Solitaire was given as an example of that, which indeed it is whether you think it is important or not.

      Actually OP said turning off a previously free application **in an update**. Windows 10's version of Solitaire, which is an updated version and different from Windows 7's and previous, has never been free. That is the difference. Personally I think they should have just dropped it rather than try a sneaky cash grab like this, but they also were looking to drive more people to the Xbox gametag ecosystem by offering a free version of that tied into XBL:

      https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/store/p/microsoft-solitaire-collection/9wzdncrfhwd2?activetab=pivot%3aoverviewtab

      So if you have Windows 10, go hit that link and get your "free" solitaire on.

    15. Re:Nice... by barc0001 · · Score: 1

      How about possibility 6: Make a free XBL version for use with Windows 10 and offer that for free?

      Like, uh... this:

      https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/store/p/microsoft-solitaire-collection/9wzdncrfhwd2?activetab=pivot%3aoverviewtab

    16. Re:Nice... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Fanboi? No. Fucking thankful? Hell yeah! They have done the world a favour. The "increased productivity" they were advertising when Windows 8 first came out? This is what they were talking about.

      Also do you always move goalposts and then cry fanboi when someone calls you out for being wrong? In the words of everyone's least favourite president: "SAD!"

    17. Re:Nice... by mea2214 · · Score: 1

      One of the reasons Linux is having trouble taking off as a mainstream desktop ...

      The main reason Linux never has and never will become a mainstream desktop is because OEMs are required to pre install Windows. For most use cases Linux is perfectly acceptable. The auto reboots in the middle of the night is not prophesy. It's god damned real and it doesn't matter you have a bunch of shit running while you sleep.

    18. Re:Nice... by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      To counter this, look at One Note. Microsoft just moved it from Office (paid) to part of Windows (free).

      Not true. The "desktop" version of OneNote has been free for a long time. So has the Windows app. The only change being made is that you'll need to install OneNote separately from Office now, and Microsoft prefers you install the Windows 10 app version; in fact, they'll probably discontinue the Windows desktop version before logn. It's more strong-arming from Microsoft.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    19. Re:Nice... by Ramze · · Score: 1

      That's odd. My cable modem runs on Linux. So does my wireless router. Oh, look! Even my Rokus run Linux. Strange how user-friendly each of these interfaces are. Rokus are extremely popular, and so easy to set up, I have family in their mid to late 60s setting them up by themselves with no help from their technically inclined family members.

      Linux's failure on the desktop is due to many reasons, though I believe it's mostly due to lack of game support. Most people use their cell phones (Android is king here) for just about everything they need for personal use. Home desktops are mostly dead except for gamers. Average users have laptops or netbooks for things their phones can't do well.

      So why is Linux failing in the laptop/netbook arena? Inertia. Chromebooks, Apple, and Microsoft pretty much have the market locked down. There's little incentive for manufacturers to use Linux over ChromeOS or Windows. In a world where people will gladly install spyware for free apps and games, using Linux has to have a selling point other than it being free or even mostly compatible. Ubuntu tried and failed to gain entry into the cell phone, tablet, netbook, and notebook arena. But, the fight isn't over. If/when STEAMOS gets perfected and/or Linux gets decent graphics drivers and game support, it'll finally be competitive on the desktop.

      People hardly notice that I have a Linux machine -- because I have Gnome set to look like Windows & I can launch Chrome and check g-mail or watch Netflix or Youtube or Twitch. Most everything I run regularly on my Windows box can be run on my Linux box just as easily -- except games. I hate using WINE, so until gaming is where it should be, I'll be keeping my windows installs.

    20. Re: Nice... by kenh · · Score: 1

      look at something as stupid as Solitaire. Free in Windows 7, pay to remove ads in Windows 10. Not only pay, but pay $10 a year to remove ads.

      So it's still free, and they have you the option of paying to remove ads - those heartless bastards!

      --
      Ken
    21. Re: Nice... by kenh · · Score: 1

      From: https://support.lenovo.com/us/...

      Operating system
      The following operating systems are supported on the ThinkPad X61 or X61s systems:
      Microsoft Windows XP Professional
      Microsoft Windows Vista Home
      Microsoft Windows Vista Business (32 and 64 bit)
      Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate (32 and 64 bit)

      --
      Ken
    22. Re:Nice... by chrish · · Score: 1

      I actually wouldn't care about this, except the Win10 version of OneNote is missing probably 80% of the features of the "old" desktop version. It's the half-assed mobile version that's available on Android, iOS, and MacOS.

      Also, on my system at least, UWP apps stop being able to Internet after a while. I've seen it in Mail, To-Do (another half-assed alternative they're pushing, to replace Wunderlist), Wunderlist, and OneNote. They'll just silently stop working with the Internet. No syncing, no nothing, and no errors or warnings. Sometimes restarting them will fix it, sometimes rebooting will fix it. Win10 OneNote has never managed to sync all of my notebooks successfully... I've only got about ten, and I thought OneDrive took care of these now?

      Replacing desktop apps with UWP apps would be fine if they weren't forcing it on us before the UWP apps are feature-comparable and reliable enough to use for more than a few minutes a day.

      --
      - chrish
  4. Translation ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Windows 10 is a service, meaning it was built in a very different way from its predecessors so it can be regularly updated with not just fixes, but new features, too.

    We can and will break your machine any time because you're our beta testers, and we're going to monetise the shit outta your desktop experience.

    Congratulations, you no longer own your machine and you don't get a vote about what is installed on it ... and you get the privilege of paying Microsoft for being treated like what you want doesn't matter.

    1. Re:Translation ... by Stephen+Presence · · Score: 1

      Generally speaking, you own your computer. Almost all operating systems though - Windows - macOS - Linux distros - UNIX variants etc. are licensed - yup, most all of them. I find it odd that so many Linux fans say Linux is "free", yet each copy comes with a BINDING license.

    2. Re:Translation ... by jrminter · · Score: 1

      "Free" and licenced are not incompatible. There are many very generous licenses: CC-by, MIT, BSD. One reason a developer may want to choose one is that they welcome individual or even corporate users using it but want to prevent someone bundling it with something else and selling it to others without either permission and some kind of payment or acknowlegement.

    3. Re:Translation ... by Stephen+Presence · · Score: 1

      The thing is though the license is there whether or not there is a click OK or not, and AFAICT, every Linux distro comes with a binding license. So you do not own your copy to do anything you want with it. There is a binding license which sets out limits with the potential of legal action should you go beyond those limits.

      If the operating system were truly free, one could do what one wished carte blanch (respective of the laws of the land of course). This is not the case with Linux distributions.

    4. Re:Translation ... by Stephen+Presence · · Score: 1

      Windows and Linux are both "free" (no cash necessary) to download and install. But both come with a binding license. So both are free as in free beer, but at the same time bind the "end user" to the terms of a contract. So neither are outright free operating systems, not by a long shot.

    5. Re:Translation ... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Microsoft almost admitted as such once when they suggested that Enterprisers users have the ability to wait see what happens for Home and Pro users when updates come out.

    6. Re:Translation ... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Free as in "Windows is free to crash without notice whenever it feels like"?

    7. Re: Translation ... by Stephen+Presence · · Score: 1

      You can download and install Windows 10 for free (as in free beer):

      ISO

      https://www.microsoft.com/en-u...

      Media Creation Tool

      https://www.microsoft.com/en-u...

      You don't have to use a product key to use it. 'And you can use it indefinitely. If you want to activate it, you will need a product key. And just like any Linux distro, its use is bound by a license.

      You're welcome.

  5. Yea but.... by ausekilis · · Score: 1

    The real question is have they finally figured out how to do differential updates?

    It's a pain in the ass to download and reinstall the whole blasted OS with *every* update. I can't wait to need to use my PC for something, only for it to tell me it's applying updates for 15 minutes on boot. Upgrading RHEL 7.4 to RHEL 7.5 is only a couple hundred MB - and it is done by running "yum update". Whole process changes lots of system files, but only took maybe 3 minutes and a restart.

    1. Re:Yea but.... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      As someone else pointed out in a previous discussion, almost every file is touched because of the amount of static linking in the OS. Everything gets recompiled and every file changes from top to bottom.

      This newest update pre-copies the files before the reboot and does a folder-swap at reboot and the only waiting is for migrating the user profile data. Just means your computer will be slow for a long time instead of unavailable.

    2. Re:Yea but.... by thegreatbob · · Score: 2

      As the AC noted, 15 minutes is on the fast side. Where I work, we've lost many hours due to this crap triggering in the middle of the day, despite active hours being set. Fortunately, we haven't suffered any of the total-breakage no-boot scenarios, though we have had to roll things back a number of times due to forced driver updates.

      --
      There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
    3. Re: Yea but.... by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      RHEL probably isn't as tightly integrated as Windows. Mac OS updates also take ages as well so it's probably a function of having the GUI as a core OS component.

    4. Re:Yea but.... by greenwow · · Score: 3, Interesting

      differential updates?

      Microsoft has actually gone the other direction with their cumulative updates. Yes, ,it really sucks to download >1G updates each month at several of our sites still stuck with dial-up, but they are more reliable than the old way of having dozens and dozens of different updates that can fail.

    5. Re:Yea but.... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I have had someone in an MMO raid crash, then about 40 minutes later came back and said that the system insisted on updating itself after rebooting.

    6. Re:Yea but.... by ElizabethGreene · · Score: 1

      >The real question is have they finally figured out how to do differential updates?

      For the Monthly updates, yes. If you had last month's patches you'll get a delta update that is dramatically smaller than the full file cumulative update. The payload is the same, just the delivery is different.

      Looking at kb4093119 in the Microsoft catalog, the x64 fullfile is 1.2gb, and the delta update is 361mb.

      For the feature updates I don't know.

  6. Here we go again... by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Another Slashdot article about Windows, and we can already see the trolls crawling out with their complaints about privacy, breakage, licensing, and other such crap.

    Look, you can hate on Microsoft all you want, but please stop pulling others into your dystopian fantasies. As a longtime Linux user, I'm a big fan of FLOSS, but it's not for everyone. Most folks don't care about their software's freedom, just as long as it keeps working.

    Yes, that means updating. Keeping your systems patched and updated is the best way to reduce attack surface, regardless of what OS you use. Keeping old and familiar things is comfortable, but it's also keeping around the broken permissions model that Microsoft has been trying to improve since Windows Vista. Remember how much that broke? It was mostly because Vista had a decent security model, rather than the crap from XP.

    Don't go turning off security features thinking you're protecting your privacy... you're really just increasing the time it takes for you to be protected against new threats. Microsoft doesn't care about the porn you watch or how many hours you spend on My Little Pony forums. They care about whether the worm infections causing havoc in Brazil all started from a website on a common domain, or use binaries with the same hashes.

    Finally, please stop complaining that your hardware from 1994 doesn't work with the new updates. I'm terribly sorry that your vendor doesn't bother to support driver APIs less than a decade old, but it's time to move on. Those random bluescreens and lockups are usually not Microsoft's fault; it's that the third-party vendor doesn't think stability is enough of a priority to actually test their drivers.

    With that all out of the way, let's all have a nice friendly conversation, eh? Anyone?

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    1. Re: Here we go again... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You obviously don't have to support this shit professionally. The Microsoft hate isn't about Apple vs Commodore fanboyism, it's about money. Every time they drop these 'upgrades', I have to pull systems engineers to help our technical support people because they're slammed with support calls. So fuck Microsoft, not because BSD is better, but because they cost us money.

    2. Re:Here we go again... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The choice doesn't have to be between free/open-source and pay. The choice can be between subscription (as MS is currently ramming down users' throats) and pay-once, keep the same feature-set, maybe pay for security updates. Like all Windows up to and including Windows 7. Why should everyone be nickel-and-dimed to death while not even maintaining a consistent UX?

    3. Re: Here we go again... by Sarten-X · · Score: 2

      I do actually support it professionally... My current day job is as a sysadmin with support duties for both Linux and Windows environments.

      It's not like this update is a surprise... Microsoft announced it a while ago, and there has been a steady stream of news about it as it approaches a final state. That means about a week ago would be a good time to send out a warning to your users, saying "there's an update coming, and it'll be big. Here are the common issues reported with previous updates..."

      Now, I'm all in favor of suggesting Microsoft should be responsible for making a perfect product that never causes issues, and as I said, you can hate Microsoft all you want... I'm just sick of seeing people suggesting that users go out of their way to ignore security best-practices, then whine about Windows having security problems.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    4. Re:Here we go again... by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

      in my experience, linux users are among the least likely to floss, ever.

    5. Re:Here we go again... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Security updates generally don't break much. Forced bundling of feature and functionality changes absolutely does. Nobody would be complaining as much if the LTSB edition of Windows was available to everyone.

    6. Re:Here we go again... by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      Really makes /. users look like bearded babies whining about anything not FLOSS.

      I mean, to be fair, that's generally an accurate depiction... When I shave, I look like I'm 25 again.

      I still drink like I'm 25, but that's mostly because I deal with infosec.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    7. Re:Here we go again... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, that means updating. Keeping your systems patched and updated is the best way to reduce attack surface, regardless of what OS you use

      And that's not what people are complaining about. What they are complaining about is that they have to patch for security but they have to accept patches which at the same time expose themselves to less privacy. What they are complaining about is that these updates are causing BSODs and other major bugs.

      Keeping old and familiar things is comfortable, but it's also keeping around the broken permissions model that Microsoft has been trying to improve since Windows Vista. Remember how much that broke? It was mostly because Vista had a decent security model, rather than the crap from XP.

      While some people refuse to change, that wasn't the major complaint of Vista. The major complaint was that it broke many things that took a while for drivers to be updated. Yes there were major changes to the security model but Vista chirping to ask for every single permission was annoying to many. Also another major complaint was how many brand new systems were sold as "Vista Capable" when they could only use the most crippled version of Vista.

      Microsoft doesn't care about the porn you watch or how many hours you spend on My Little Pony forums. They care about whether the worm infections causing havoc in Brazil all started from a website on a common domain, or use binaries with the same hashes.

      If MS doesn't care about those things then why are they increasingly gathering more data about what their users do? MS cares about all of that. It's a not a binary thing.

      Finally, please stop complaining that your hardware from 1994 doesn't work with the new updates. I'm terribly sorry that your vendor doesn't bother to support driver APIs less than a decade old, but it's time to move on. Those random bluescreens and lockups are usually not Microsoft's fault; it's that the third-party vendor doesn't think stability is enough of a priority to actually test their drivers.

      This is kinda a strawman argument isn't it? I think many admins care that Windows updates have been causing BSODs.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    8. Re: Here we go again... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2

      Now, I'm all in favor of suggesting Microsoft should be responsible for making a perfect product that never causes issues, and as I said, you can hate Microsoft all you want... I'm just sick of seeing people suggesting that users go out of their way to ignore security best-practices, then whine about Windows having security problems.

      We as users don't need MS to make a "perfect" product. We need MS to respect privacy while fixing security bugs.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    9. Re:Here we go again... by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      As I understand, LTSB does not actually include major security updates, but only patches to old implementations.

      That means that when new attack mitigations are developed against whole classes of attacks (like when ASLR became the norm), they will be dropped into the mainline releases, but LTSB won't get them. Instead, LTSB would be reliant on a separate tool (like EMET) to implement those mitigations piecemeal, essentially leaving the attack surface almost as bad as it was at release.

      LTSB is meant for appliances. If you have any flexibility in your environment at all, stick with the mainline.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    10. Re:Here we go again... by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      Oh, no... Feel free to bash Microsoft, but please do it in a way that doesn't make my life (as an infosec-heavy sysadmin) worse. Feel free to comment on Microsoft's business practices, compatibility, standards integration, charity/recruitment, UX/UI, SKU complexity, unwanted features, configurability, pricing, proprietary formats, data services, or the lack of any of the aforementioned, but please don't encourage people to expose themselves to risk just to "stick it to the man".

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    11. Re:Here we go again... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > we can already see the trolls crawling out with their complaints about privacy, breakage, licensing, and other such crap.

      Ad Hominem much?

      So you are offering to fix things when MS breaks it?

      Just because _you_ aren't running into valid issues, doesn't mean no else is. But keep trying to paint everyone with the same brush.

      The other problem is that we CAN'T opt-out of whatever MS shoves down our throats unless we stick with older OS's that actually respect our privacy.

      > Yes, that means updating.

      The problem is MS has a HORRIBLE track record. Chances are 50/50 ,or whatever the % is, that something will break.

      By NOT upgrading I'm 100% guaranteed that things WON'T break.

      > please stop complaining that your hardware from 1994

      Straw man much? We just want our i7's from ~5+ years ago to be supported. No one is whining about 1994 hardware except you.

    12. Re:Here we go again... by Merk42 · · Score: 1

      The choice doesn't have to be between free/open-source and pay. The choice can be between subscription(as MS is currently ramming down users' throats) and pay-once, keep the same feature-set, maybe pay for security updates. Like all Windows up to and including Windows 7. Why should everyone be nickel-and-dimed to death while not even maintaining a consistent UX?

      What subscription?

    13. Re:Here we go again... by Merk42 · · Score: 1

      Thank you for saying this, I feel like every article about Microsoft needs this at the top. Most people on the blog fully understand that Windows isn't perfect, but take your doomsaying and fear mongering somewhere else. Really makes /. users look like bearded babies whining about anything not FLOSS.

      That's not true at all!




      /. whines about everything, regardless of its license.

    14. Re:Here we go again... by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      Another Slashdot article about Windows, and we can already see the trolls crawling out with their complaints about privacy, breakage, licensing, and other such crap.

      Is your assertion anyone who "complains" about these things is a troll?

      Most folks don't care about their software's freedom, just as long as it keeps working.

      I keep hearing how nobody cares when the actual truth is closer to nobody knows or understands.

      Yes, that means updating. Keeping your systems patched and updated is the best way to reduce attack surface, regardless of what OS you use.

      Over 90% of those being owned are via social engineering not exploitation of any software vulnerabilities.

      Most users sit behind a stealth mode firewall leaving much of the remaining avenue for attack in the realm of user behavior and security properties of user mode software.

      I don't buy keeping Windows patched is the _best_ way. Ideally it should be a no brainer for users however bad experiences and loss of trust have consequences all around.

      Don't go turning off security features thinking you're protecting your privacy...

      I agree, turning them off does nothing. You actually have to firewall Windows from Microsoft to protect your privacy.

      you're really just increasing the time it takes for you to be protected against new threats.

      Threats that are overwhelmingly irrelevant to desktop users running non-Microsoft browsers.

      Microsoft doesn't care about the porn you watch or how many hours you spend on My Little Pony forums.

      Personally I don't give a fuck what Microsoft cares about. I don't want them to collect data from me period. What they do or don't do with it is totally irrelevant.

      Finally, please stop complaining that your hardware from 1994 doesn't work with the new updates. I'm terribly sorry that your vendor doesn't bother to support driver APIs less than a decade old, but it's time to move on.

      This is a mature market where new hardware increasingly offers little to no new value while compatibility is increasingly valuable to customers.

      Simply waiving your hands saying stop I don't like this it doesn't seem fair is not likely to influence anyone's behavior.

    15. Re:Here we go again... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      And that's not what people are complaining about.

      You must be talking about that other Slashdot that you're reading.

      If MS doesn't care about those things then why are they increasingly gathering more data about what their users do?

      You don't understand the difference between "you" and "al'y'all". Microsoft couldn't give a shit about what "you" do. However aggregated data about everyone is used for development decisions. So feel free to download and read the Anarchists Cookbook, the police won't come knocking on your door.

      I think many admins care that Windows updates have been causing BSODs.

      And so does MS which is precisely why they pulled the release before it was released to the general public. Admins everywhere should be cheering at their decision as a triumph of software development over marketing bozos pushing out garbage in favour of an artificial deadline.

    16. Re:Here we go again... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      You don't understand the difference between "you" and "al'y'all". Microsoft couldn't give a shit about what "you" do. However aggregated data about everyone is used for development decisions. So feel free to download and read the Anarchists Cookbook, the police won't come knocking on your door.

      So can you guarantee that any information that MS collects is protected and cannot possibly identify me in any way as to not sacrifice my privacy? That depends on how much I trust MS on their motives and their competency.

      And so does MS which is precisely why they pulled the release before it was released to the general public. Admins everywhere should be cheering at their decision as a triumph of software development over marketing bozos pushing out garbage in favour of an artificial deadline.

      Huh? Some publicly released updates have BSOD issues. That's the complaint and worry. Yes MS delayed the April update but a patch in March caused BSODs. A patch in October 2017 caused BSODs. The Windows 10 Fall Creators Update also caused BSODs.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    17. Re:Here we go again... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      What if you don't want to be flexible with your environment, but instead want a consistent interface where features aren't added and removed at the whim of a bunch of do-gooders in Redmond who think they know better than you?

    18. Re:Here we go again... by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      In that case, I recommend Debian.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    19. Re:Here we go again... by eionmac · · Score: 1

      Concur with above opinions.
      I have a main computer (Windows 7 to Windows 10) which will not 'update'. I will leave until one good program outlives its life; as no longer with ability to re-load on Windows 10 in a fresh install, and using Windows is unnecessary except for that program , then re-install a clean install of Windows 10. meanwhile. I use Linux by dual booting.
      All operating systems have both good and bad points.
      It is the user who decides, but many just 'go with the flow' of what they bought.
      If you can and know how to use other systems do choose Linux /Android or Windows or MacOS but keep criticism to robust technical points not just 'feelings'

      --
      Regards Eion MacDonald
    20. Re:Here we go again... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      ... or even Ubuntu. Features change between versions, but it doesn't ran version updates down your raw craw.

    21. Re:Here we go again... by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      Eh..... (and we veer wildly off-topic, but it's to a more pleasant one)

      I'm still kinda sour on Ubuntu for one main reason: It's heavy. Rightfully so, as its focus is on userland compatibility and hardware support, but it's always struck me as a bit of too much overkill for my (minimal) tastes.

      For long-term stability, I think Debian still can't be beat, since that's its primary goal. It's very easy to have a minimal Debian install in a few hundred megabytes, and that can be trimmed down much more with some effort. Even when things change, Debian encourages modular config files, so it's very easy to just drop in the same old config files, and expect things to work. Unfortunately, its stability comes at the price of compatibility, as it's all too easy to fall into the situation of having an old system with old libraries and compilers and such, then you try to go add a new package and find that the latest compatible version is two years old. Sure, most core-system security issues are backported, but there's a lot of missing capability down that road.

      Recently I've taken more to SuSE, which seems like a happy medium between the two. It's a bit more cutting-edge than Debian, but still not as packed-full as Ubuntu, and still has enough polish to be usable. I'm also a big fan of BTRFS, which is the preferred filesystem on SuSE, too... Unfortunately, SuSE is not as likely to be a supported OS for software packages as Debian or Red Hat, and it's just different enough from Red Hat to be troublesome.

      It's never easy, is it?

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    22. Re:Here we go again... by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      Most folks don't care about their software's freedom, just as long as it keeps working.

      Emphasis mine. That's the crux of it. Are you sure that it will keep working after the update?

    23. Re:Here we go again... by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      they have to patch for security but they have to accept patches which at the same time expose themselves to less privacy.

      Like what, exactly? Is there a particular feature you have in mind, with whose privacy policy you don't agree?

      The major complaint was that [Vista] broke many things that took a while for drivers to be updated.

      ...which were mostly broken due to the drivers abusing the old security model, but sure...

      ...Vista chirping to ask for every single permission was annoying to many. Also another major complaint was how many brand new systems were sold as "Vista Capable" when they could only use the most crippled version of Vista.

      That UX problem is something I'll happily join in complaining about, but it's still wasn't a good excuse to stay with XP's wider attack surface. Similarly, Microsoft's sales tactics are another area for valid complaint, and have no bearing on whether it's acceptable to tell users to sabotage their own security.

      If MS doesn't care about those things then why are they increasingly gathering more data about what their users do?

      Because, in aggregate, they care about what their users as a group do. To illustrate with an example, I'll use a previous career of mine involving collecting very sensitive personally-identifiable medical data.

      One of my company's goals was to identify insurance fraud being perpetrated by doctors (as opposed to anything the patient might do). To that end, we were interested in whether doctors were treating their patients "close enough" to how other doctors treated similar cases. If you have a broken leg, you can expect x-rays, a cast, some pain meds, and the like. Requiring 27 blood tests, a cranial MRI, and three weeks in an ICU with no other diagnosis? That's probably excessive, and would get the case flagged.

      In order to perform the analysis, we had to collect everything about a patient's history with the doctor. Tests, prescriptions, visits... it all went into the collectors, but it was a lot of data. It all got boiled down to a score from 0 to 2. A perfect "1.0" meant the case was perfectly in line with treatment seen everywhere else. If there were multiple major directions for treatment, we'd see lower numbers, as the cases would have less factors in common. The doctor's scores would then be averaged, into their own score reflecting how closely they followed normal practices. Scores above or below magic thresholds were flagged to be sent to a review board, who would do their usual thing.

      To our servers, the patient was a distinct patient for less than a minute, and their records were personally identifiable to them for three milliseconds. To the patient (who signed the privacy agreement), we collected everything about them, and could use it in any way whatsoever, even selling it to advertisers or third parties. It was a standard boilerplate agreement, pulled right from the pages of our lawyers' textbooks.

      In Microsoft's case, there are similar pieces of information that it's just silly to not "collect": Windows version number, hardware profile, drivers... Then some basic "system configuration" like whether it's a domain system or not, or the username/email you logged in with, since that can impact a lot of deep-magic Windows functions. Of course, that all sounds terribly scary, but it's all the first things I check when I have to debug something. Then there's all the usual Internet-related information like your IP address whenever it makes any request. That's probably discarded at their load balancer, but might show up in a log somewhere, so they disclose it.

      As in my case, I expect (and have heard corroboration from various MSFT engineers) that all of this data is quickly mangled and correlated to produce arbitrary pie charts in arbitrary reports, that eventually get turned into statements like "35% of users installed this security update wit

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    24. Re:Here we go again... by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      I'll give it a 99% chance. That statistic is pretty generous to the 1% side, since in the past decade, I've pushed out every single MS update to about 1500 devices in total, and I've had 5 problems. That's not "5 updates caused problems," that's "I've had to fix problems 5 times that I can recall". Two stopped booting after an AV update, two ASUS systems had a nasty issue with a MS update, and a server once killed itself during an update and wouldn't reboot cleanly without some TLC.

      Now, it takes some effort... I keep drivers updated, perform periodic maintenance, upgrade hardware as needed, and I keep the systems fully updated. As a sysadmin, that is my job. I can be sure that updates won't break my system, because my systems are nothing unusual. Of course, "nothing unusual" doesn't make headlines.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    25. Re:Here we go again... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      So can you guarantee that any information that MS collects is protected and cannot possibly identify me in any way as to not sacrifice my privacy?

      I will only guarantee something if you first guarantee that we keep playing the same sport and that the goal posts don't move around the field randomly to suit your narrative.

      Some publicly released updates have BSOD issues

      Indeed they have, and now we have a company that has actively held back to try and improve on previous practices and yet all you can do is bitch about it. Good work.

    26. Re:Here we go again... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      If Microsoft kept its frequent updates to only dealing with security, then that would be great. Instead it takes these opportunities to add unncessary features, changes to UI, and such, all of which add to the lengthy update time. Do you forget the lengthy period of time during which Microsoft regularly included the Get-Windows-10 advertising as part of its "important patches"? You can't just turn around and forgive them for that when there's been no apology or apparent change of heart. We'll be nice to Microsoft when Microsoft is nice to its paying customers.

    27. Re: Here we go again... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      If you look at it objectively, Windows was a major supplier of malware with their GWX updates and forced upgrades to Windows 10. Their GWX updates acted like malware in all ways - it was unwanted, it tried to hide itself, it tried to fool the users into running it, and it took considerable time to clean up after it. When Microsoft is being hostile to its paying customers, is it any wonder that the customers treat it as untrustworthy?

    28. Re:Here we go again... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Linux bugs tend to get fixed over time. Microsoft bugs tend to be labelled as features.

    29. Re:Here we go again... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Ok, here are my suggestions for Microsoft's business practices.

      - Break apart the updates. Separate important security updates from the useless fluff. If you have to make an update *mandatory* then only do so for the security updates.
      - Separate your advertising from the updates.
      - Fix bugs before you add new features.
      - Treat your customers with respect. Maybe I should have listed that as the first and only item...

    30. Re:Here we go again... by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      The choice doesn't have to be between free/open-source and pay. The choice can be between subscription (as MS is currently ramming down users' throats) and pay-once, keep the same feature-set, maybe pay for security updates.

      Failure all around, the poster, the moderators who upmoderated this, and anyone who believes it.

      I paid for Windows once - for Windows 7. The Windows 10 upgrade was free. Every update since has been free. No second payment.

      No consumer has paid for Windows 10 more than once. Every business on a "subscription" is using essentially the same Software Assurance or volumce licensing program that has been available since before the introduction of Windows 7.

      You should be embarassed at yourself.

    31. Re:Here we go again... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      I will only guarantee something if you first guarantee that we keep playing the same sport and that the goal posts don't move around the field randomly to suit your narrative.

      Did you post this: "You don't understand the difference between "you" and "al'y'all". Microsoft couldn't give a shit about what "you" do. However aggregated data about everyone is used for development decisions. So feel free to download and read the Anarchists Cookbook, the police won't come knocking on your door."

      What you are saying that I'm changing the goal posts when I address a point you brought up. And your answer is? Yes you can guarantee or no you cannot?

      Indeed they have, and now we have a company that has actively held back to try and improve on previous practices and yet all you can do is bitch about it. Good work.

      So you acknowledge that given the recent history of Windows updates that users might be wary of any newer updates at the same time you dismiss their bitching?

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    32. Re:Here we go again... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Like what, exactly? Is there a particular feature you have in mind, with whose privacy policy you don't agree?

      You mean besides the telemetry and the key logger which are enabled by default. Yes you can turn them off but Windows still sends data. Also unless you have Enterprise you cannot turn off sending data to MS completely. Recently MS has allowed users to see more of what data they are sending.

      That UX problem is something I'll happily join in complaining about, but it's still wasn't a good excuse to stay with XP's wider attack surface. Similarly, Microsoft's sales tactics are another area for valid complaint, and have no bearing on whether it's acceptable to tell users to sabotage their own security.,

      Again my point was that users (especially non-Enterprise users) have to accept patches that they want with "features" they may not want. This is further exacerbated by the MS policy of rollup patches which do not separate out security and non-security components. In the past users could avoid certain patches if t that patch was troublesome but not any more.

      Because, in aggregate, they care about what their users as a group do. To illustrate with an example, I'll use a previous career of mine involving collecting very sensitive personally-identifiable medical data.

      You are asserting that they only care about the aggregate. I maintain unless you work for MS you can't be sure. My view of MS is not that trusting. In your case, I believe that there are laws regarding medical data (HIPAA). I do not believe that MS has to work under any such rules with their user data.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    33. Re:Here we go again... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      What you are saying that I'm changing the goal posts when I address a point you brought up. And your answer is? Yes you can guarantee or no you cannot?

      No I'm just pointing out that you responded to my point: Data is used and collected in aggregate. Then you raised a separate question on identifying you. To which my answer remains, data is used in aggregate regardless of how much you move the goal posts around. Go to MS's website and lookup the data that is sent. The telemetry collection is published. And then ask yourself if you will be targeted because of it.

      So you acknowledge that given the recent history of Windows updates

      Of course. But the only reason you think this is relevant is because you're incapable of following a conversation. One which incidentally never said that MS didn't cause a past BSOD, only that they care about not causing them.

      Actually no. I don't acknowledge your statement. There's nothing "recent" about it, and there's nothing specifically "windows" about it. And actually the last update that completely hosed one of my systems was caused by running "apt-get dist-upgrade"

    34. Re:Here we go again... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      No I'm just pointing out that you responded to my point: Data is used and collected in aggregate.

      Data collected in aggregate is individual data collected in large numbers. Why is that so hard for you to acknowledge? If MS or Google is collecting my data and millions of users at the same time, they still are collecting my data. Now it is up to the individual company to ensure such data is anonymous and protected. But that relies on trusting that company's competency and intentions.

      Then you raised a separate question on identifying you. To which my answer remains, data is used in aggregate regardless of how much you move the goal posts around. Go to MS's website and lookup the data that is sent. The telemetry collection is published. And then ask yourself if you will be targeted because of it.

      I have. Again if you want to trust MS you can. I don't feel I am required to do so.

      Of course. But the only reason you think this is relevant is because you're incapable of following a conversation. One which incidentally never said that MS didn't cause a past BSOD, only that they care about not causing them.

      I said this in my first post on this topic: "And that's not what people are complaining about. What they are complaining about is that they have to patch for security but they have to accept patches which at the same time expose themselves to less privacy. What they are complaining about is that these updates are causing BSODs and other major bugs." It seems like you want to ignore points which you can't ignore. Or that you are incapable of scrolling up to follow the conversation.

      Actually no. I don't acknowledge your statement. There's nothing "recent" about it, and there's nothing specifically "windows" about it.

      So October 2017 isn't "recent". Fall 2017 isn't "recent"? March 2018 isn't "recent"? Or do you go by a different meaning of "recent"?

      And actually the last update that completely hosed one of my systems was caused by running "apt-get dist-upgrade"

      If this topic was about Linux stability you would have a point. Who's shifting the goal posts now?

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    35. Re:Here we go again... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Data collected in aggregate is individual data collected in large numbers. Why is that so hard for you to acknowledge?

      Because the method of collecting and the storage ends up different. Individual data collection implies tracking individuals, implies security issues that are greatly reduced in aggregate data. Learn the difference.

      What they are complaining about is that these updates are causing BSODs and other major bugs

      Thanks for highlighting the relevant bits. You should scroll through and re-read everything we've said about BSODs so far and why their complaints are being taken seriously.

      It seems like you want to ignore points which you can't ignore

      Actually I've addressed it several times.

      Or that you are incapable of scrolling up to follow the conversation.

      Funny, I'm sure I just accused you of the same thing. Maybe we should switch to German since this English thing clearly isn't working for you.

      So October 2017 isn't "recent". Fall 2017 isn't "recent"? March 2018 isn't "recent"? Or do you go by a different meaning of "recent"?

      Oh wow. You got that conclusion from my sentence? You really don't understand English do you. I think we're at the root cause of all our disagreements. But keep arguing pointlessly with yourself. God knows you're not talking about anything I was talking about.

      If this topic was about Linux stability you would have a point. Who's shifting the goal posts now?

      No one. Another part of English posts like this, especially the kind with multiple quotes that go one and one is that there are several points. Calling out your incorrect use of language by invoking an example of Linux hasn't changed any of the original goalposts or even changed the game.

      Learn to follow a conversation.

    36. Re:Here we go again... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Because the method of collecting and the storage ends up different. Individual data collection implies tracking individuals, implies security issues that are greatly reduced in aggregate data. Learn the difference.

      Bahahaha. You do understand that even the way MS collects data is capable of tracking individuals, right? What MS claims is that the data is anonymized so that individuals cannot be identified but that does not mean they cannnot be tracked. I work in data and it would fairly useless if individuals could not be tracked. Take for example, the diagnostic reports that we know MS is collecting data. Based on the hardware configuration MS would probably like to know if certain hardware like a GPU has issues with a particular crash. Windows will send hardware configuration along with the diagnostic report. That hardware information can be used to track someone. MS can certainly use the hardware configuration to assign an ID to the computer.

      Thanks for highlighting the relevant bits. You should scroll through and re-read everything we've said about BSODs so far and why their complaints are being taken seriously.

      I did. Apparently you like to assume that no one else does what you claim that they do..

      Oh wow. You got that conclusion from my sentence? You really don't understand English do you. I think we're at the root cause of all our disagreements. But keep arguing pointlessly with yourself. God knows you're not talking about anything I was talking about

      This is what you clearly wrote: "There's nothing "recent" about it, and there's nothing specifically "windows" about it. And actually the last update that completely hosed one of my systems was caused by running "apt-get dist-upgrade""

      Did you or did you not write that. In that statement you clearly said that it wasn't "recent" or "windows". You said that. Not me.

      No one. Another part of English posts like this, especially the kind with multiple quotes that go one and one is that there are several points. Calling out your incorrect use of language by invoking an example of Linux hasn't changed any of the original goalposts or even changed the game. Learn to follow a conversation.

      It seems you get so defensive when someone calls you out on something and resort to deflection.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  7. Features this won't include by jd · · Score: 1, Interesting

    A working OS to replace Windows
    Support for Elite Dangerous
    A decent filesystem
    Security
    Reliability
    A decent attitude at Microsoft
    Working technical support
    Standards-compliant software
    POSIX
    A shutdown that works without hacking it
    The ability to remove Clippy Jr
    Retention of privacy
    A decent compiler

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:Features this won't include by tepples · · Score: 1

      POSIX

      What substantial deficiencies have you found in Windows Subsystem for Linux, other than the fact that Microsoft doesn't offer to install an X server to view the output of X clients running in WSL?

    2. Re: Features this won't include by jd · · Score: 1

      It's a subsystem. Every layer adds latency. Your core must support 100% of the atomic operations or everything is too slow, too unreliable and too prone to security defects.

      Always Keep It Simple, Stupid!

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    3. Re: Features this won't include by tepples · · Score: 1

      In Windows, Win32 is also a "subsystem" on top of the NT kernel. So WSL is no less native than Win32.

  8. More like Windows 30 April 2018 by iTrawl · · Score: 1

    Microsoft missed an opportunity to mess with language parsers here.

    Or are they just running late because their language parser crashed when presented with this idea and they had to fix it?

    --
    "Everybody's naked underneath" -- The Doctor
  9. What if I don't want new features? by mcmonkey · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm all for security updates, but I haven't recovered from the last time I was hit with "new features."

    1. Re:What if I don't want new features? by rogoshen1 · · Score: 2

      Hear hear! Please let me opt out of your bullshit updates and mandatory reboots without having to pay for a pro license.

      The second better eGPU support is added, and more of the games i'd want to play are available on linux (no, WINE does not count) I'll move my home computer off of that POS windows 10. (so realistically, never)

    2. Re:What if I don't want new features? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      SteamOS?

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    3. Re:What if I don't want new features? by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

      yeah it's intriguing, but mainly dependent on the available games --pretty sparse list of AAA games, which is understandable.

      Also curious about big-picture and e-gpu support.

    4. Re:What if I don't want new features? by movdqa · · Score: 1

      I'd like Focus Assist to turn off Windows Update.

    5. Re:What if I don't want new features? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      but I haven't recovered from the last time I was hit with "new features."

      You mean features like the ability to control the update and reboot process? Or all those features that you won't ever touch even in the slightest?

      That's what I don't understand about you whingers. You spend all this time trying to block updates to "features" that you won't ever encounter or use, and then complain about shit that has long been fixed on your out of date install.

      Now please do share, what "new feature" has kicked your dog that upset you so?

    6. Re:What if I don't want new features? by tepples · · Score: 1

      Now please do share, what "new feature" has kicked your dog that upset you so?

      Feature update downloads that push the satellite Internet connection past the household's monthly data transfer quota and into overage fees. Built-in applications, such as Windows Notepad, that cannot preserve unsaved data across an overnight unattended restart.

    7. Re:What if I don't want new features? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Some linux systems are able to do an upgrade of all components except the kernel without upgrading. Including upgrading the C runtime library that most utilities rely on. Add a copy of new libraries, upgrade and restart services so that they now use the new libraries, rinse and repeat. Then if you do want to upgrade the kernel it's just a quick reboot.

      As for choosing positive things to say about Windows 10, I can only think of one and that's their linux-in-windows capability. Now there are things I like in Windows 8.1 and things I hate, but I can't think of anything in Windows 10 that I would want except that one thing. It's really hard to focus on the good things when the bad things are so numerous in comparison.

    8. Re:What if I don't want new features? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Feature update downloads that push the satellite Internet connection past the household's monthly data transfer quota and into overage fees.

      So turn on metered connection.

      Built-in applications, such as Windows Notepad, that cannot preserve unsaved data across an overnight unattended restart.

      To be clear you're complaining about data loss from unsaved data over fucking night? Why do you hate your work this much? I mean of all the complaints about Windows I've seen this one a few times and I gotta say, that is petty as fuck!

      And you still didn't answer my question, so I'll assume the answer was: "No actually none of the features changes Windows made has negatively affected me, I just like to whine about Windows in the hope of scoring some karma on Slashdot."

    9. Re:What if I don't want new features? by tepples · · Score: 1

      So turn on metered connection.

      Since which Windows build has a metering rule been available for the wired Ethernet connection to a satellite modem? Last I checked, it was available for only for Wi-Fi, not for wired Ethernet. And since which Windows build has the user been able to input a metering rule that depends on the time of day, as many satellite providers have offered? Last I checked, it was either always metered or always unmetered.

      And you still didn't answer my question

      The answer was that the first objectionable new feature was forced automatic update downloads, without a compensating feature to mark a wired Ethernet connection as metered on a schedule, and that the second objectionable new feature was forced automatic update restarts, without a compensating feature to add preservation of otherwise unsaved state to all applications that ship with Windows. I don't understand why each of those is not an answer to your question.

    10. Re:What if I don't want new features? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      That all sounds like a very specific self-referential problem. Just set the registry key to default your ethernet connection as metered and all your problems will disappear and bonus points your objectionable feature becomes less objectionable.

      You're welcome.

      (By the way, the irony is that every successive feature update has made the automatic update process more flexible and use less data (local download sharing) so the thing you hate is also the one that would drive you to want to update).

  10. Update model by fred6666 · · Score: 1

    Why do they insist on this broken update model which breaks things every fucking time. Last time was my VPN and Virtualbox network adapters.

    Why can't they just put their 3D paint to the Windows store? I wish they modularized more. Cortana should also be an optional application. So does Edge.

    1. Re:Update model by greenwow · · Score: 2

      Why do they insist on this broken update model which breaks things every fucking time. Last time was my VPN and Virtualbox network adapters.

      "DOS ain't done till Lotus won't run"

      But seriously, our users run a lot of weird or old apps and nearly every month something breaks after a Windows update. It's gotten to the point where some departments refuse to install updates even on public-facing servers. Microsoft has created a serious problem.

      I haven't seen the problem with VirtualBox. I have about three dozen vms, and sometimes run half a dozen of them at a time some with very complicated network setups with multiple interfaces. Also, I usually have three or four OpenVPN connections running simultaneously since we're too cheap to pay the 5 cents per hour to do site-to-site VPN to different Amazon regions or to buy better cisco firewalls to support it. It has been rock solid for me since I started using 10.

  11. Re:msmash still not a hacker by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    What's wrong with Windows? Some of us like to play videogames!

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  12. Update fragmentation. by xack · · Score: 1

    Looking at Microsoft’s support cycle is a mess. It could do with a lot of simplifying. Make the next update Windows 10.1 and make it the only supported upgrade getting everyone on the same page. Release new point versions every two years (LTSB versions) and feature updates (service packs?) every six months following Ubuntu’s model. So 2015 would be Windows 10.0, 2018 10.1, 2020 10.2 and so on.

  13. Here is what I do (and what I recommend doing) by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    Come April 29, disable the updating process. Yes, it's possible. Wait for May 3-4. Read up what's going on. Then decide whether you want to install or whether it's better to keep the update disabled.

    Windows Updates are not a nature of force. You still have every option to not let them happen and wait it out 'til others have played Russian roulette for your convenience.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Here is what I do (and what I recommend doing) by danomac · · Score: 1

      Disabling the update process is not as easy as disabling the Windows Update service. It will magically re-enable itself.

    2. Re:Here is what I do (and what I recommend doing) by dwywit · · Score: 1

      It's not even the WU and BITS that need attention.

      I tried turning WU and BITS to disable in order to get a bunch of machines (16 x entry-level SLOW W10 Home Lenovo laptops) to a consistent state - then WU and BITS could be re-enabled. These are laptops bought by someone else for a small cash-strapped independent school. I needed to get candy crush and all the other crap off permanently before releasing them to the classroom. You can't just "uninstall" candy crush - it's still there and will activate for any new profile. You have to resort to some powershell shenanigans to remove it completely.

      Only there's this thing called Windows 10 Upgrade Assistant that set them all off downloading and installing the Fall Creator's Update.

      I tracked that down to a series of scheduled tasks called the "Update Orchestrator" but they couldn't be changed as they were owned by SYSTEM, and seizing ownership of those tasks to disable them was a bit confronting - I started thinking about unintended consequences, so I had to let them proceed.

      And it installed "Disney Magic Kingdom" for me. How pleasant.

      --
      They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
    3. Re:Here is what I do (and what I recommend doing) by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      But instead of telling people how to do this, you preferred to belittle me. Did that serve any purpose?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  14. Should I upgrade to W8.1? by movdqa · · Score: 1

    I'm running Windows 7 as a VM on my Mac because I have one application that runs on Windows. But support goes away in under two years and was thinking about buying an 8.1 license while they're still available to give me another three years. This application seems to leak RAM on W10 but runs fine on W7. It would take some effort to replace the Windows application but I sometimes wonder if I should start work on it. The program doesn't run on Wine.

    1. Re:Should I upgrade to W8.1? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      That's the thing, with a VM you can try it out and see if it works. No need to upgrade and find out you don't like it them jump through hoops to try to downgrade again (probably full disk mirroring would work but a VM is so much simpler).

  15. Windows 10 April 2018 Update is Coming On April 30 by Threni · · Score: 1

    So...20 days late? Not bad.

  16. Re:Windows 10 April 2018 Update is Coming On April by neilo_1701D · · Score: 1

    So...20 days late? Not bad.

    It was coming earlier, but a blue screen was affecting some users. Hence the delay.

  17. Re:Not buying your story. by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

    Let's go ahead and add that to the list, then...

    I'd much prefer to see non-security updates completely branched off, but I can also understand Microsoft's reluctance to do that. It makes their testing and rollout far more complex. On the other hand, it's what GNU/Linux distros do all the time, with so few problems that they become news events when they do happen. It would seem to me that Microsoft should be able to spin up a boatload of Azure instances test every configuration, since they're pushing that cloud's capabilities so much...

    The other major issue is that such things are often integrated. You can't have everyone get automatic AV updates without everyone having AV, so Defender became a standard feature. You can't have Defender without (and from here on I'm making up things I'm not ambitious enough to research) .NET 4.5.0, so .NET is a standard feature. You can't have .NET 4.5.0 without (still making things up) Windows Management Tools, so that becomes standard, along with (still... you get the idea) PowerShell, and so on.

    Unfortunately, there are always the slow-movers who will never add features. Then the question becomes one of support and sustainment. How long is a bare-minimal feature set considered a supported option? The Desktop Window Manager has been around for a decade now. It works, but if it were an optional feature, there'd still be folks using the old XP-era window manager, and they'd be complaining about not being able to run modern software. At some point, users have to upgrade, and Microsoft has chosen to make this a semi-annual event, essentially forcing the issue.

    I'm not such a fan of the user feature integration, but generally have no strong feelings about it either way. My main complaint in this whole thread is against the folks who say things like "disable SmartScreen" or "turn off automatic reboots", or the worst one I've seen yet, "block all Microsoft servers in your firewall". Such advice looks wonderfully clever and seems like a great way to be in control of your system, but the end result is just more attack surface.

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  18. ISO by jdavidb · · Score: 1

    I keep looking at this thinking that they should call it the Windows 2018-04-10 update.

  19. GNU/Linux + PS4 by tepples · · Score: 2

    You can play video games without Windows. Switch your PC from Windows to GNU/Linux and add a PlayStation 4 console. Quite a few PC games on Steam and emulators of retro consoles are ported to Linux, and Wine runs numerous others. Many unported games that do not work in Wine are ported to a PlayStation platform, and some PlayStation 2 through 4 games can use a mouse and keyboard. One thing you do lose on PlayStation 4, however, is mods.

    1. Re:GNU/Linux + PS4 by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      ...some PlayStation 2 through 4 games can use a mouse and keyboard.

      My problem is the "some" parts. And with Microsoft and Sony, you're limited to what they offer. There's a lot more games on Steam than there is for consoles.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    2. Re:GNU/Linux + PS4 by tepples · · Score: 1

      The unique selling points of a PC running Windows are games that A. available on Steam, B. worthwhile, C. not available for X11/Linux, D. not compatible with Wine, and E. not also available on PlayStation Store. I imagine that this set isn't very big. I'm interested in being proven wrong, but here's my reasoning: Asset flips (pre-made models in a pre-made framework with little or no distinctive gameplay) aren't worthwhile. Older games tend to be playable in Wine. Smaller developers of newer worthwhile games tend to make games available for X11/Linux in order to play medium fish in a small pond (X11/Linux compatible games) rather than small fish in a large pond (Windows compatible games). Larger developers tend to target PlayStation Store.

  20. Time-dependent Internet data metering by tepples · · Score: 1

    The things people are constantly bitching about are bad decisions from two years ago that have already been corrected: such as the ability to easily disable telemetry now, or the ability to set "working hours" in which Windows will not update / restart itself because it may interfere with daily activities.

    Including the ability to mark Ethernet as metered without using the registry editor (which isn't even present on Windows 10 Lean), or to mark a connection as metered from 05:00 to 01:00 local time? Satellite Internet subscribers depend on those features in order not to exceed the monthly data transfer quota that satellite ISPs impose.

    1. Re:Time-dependent Internet data metering by darkain · · Score: 2

      Settings > Network > Change connection properties > Metered connection

    2. Re:Time-dependent Internet data metering by tepples · · Score: 1

      That works for wireless connections. But since which Windows 10 build does it work for Ethernet (wired) connections?

    3. Re: Time-dependent Internet data metering by kenh · · Score: 1

      You have a wired network drop that is metered/pay per data transferred? That is not common.

      --
      Ken
    4. Re: Time-dependent Internet data metering by tepples · · Score: 1

      The wired network drop comes from the satellite modem. Use of satellite Internet is common in parts of the United States not well served by fiber, cable, or DSL.

  21. So no one else can access your private notes by tepples · · Score: 2

    Microsoft account required, so only "free" in the sense that it doesn't cost money.

    Without some form of authentication, how else should the offsite backup or web access feature ensure that only you can view or edit your notes? Other tools to back up your notes offsite, such as Dropbox and Google Keep, also require an account.

    1. Re:So no one else can access your private notes by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      I deal with a lot of PII at work, and we legally can't put it on someone else's cloud.

      I guess we'll just keep using OneNote 2016 and backup to our network. Just sucks that the new version doesn't seem to have that option.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  22. Re:Windows 10 April 2018 Update is Coming On April by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    So...20 days late? Not bad.

    It was coming earlier, but a blue screen was affecting some users. Hence the delay.

    20 years late would be better.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  23. Re:Windows 10 April 2018 Update is Coming On April by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    So...20 days late? Not bad.

    It was coming earlier, but a blue screen was affecting some users. Hence the delay.

    Blue Screens - the one Windows legacy that will be with us always.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  24. Let's raid AppDB by tepples · · Score: 1

    The program doesn't run on Wine.

    Which program is it, so we can Slashdot the program's AppDB entry with requests to get it working?

    1. Re:Let's raid AppDB by movdqa · · Score: 1

      Medved Trader. It costs about $800/year though you can run it for free for about a month. You also need a brokerage account with streaming quotes services. This is the follow-on to QuoteTracker which was written in the 1990s. That did run on Wine though it had about 98% support. I needed some of the things in the other 2%. I've decided to drop Medved Trader and go with Think or Swim which runs on Windows, macos, Linux, iOS, etc. It has a very steep learning curve but this will allow me to dump Windows. The programs that I need have been porting over to macos over time or I've found alternatives. I will still have the WIndows 7 VM but it won't be on my system. I will still have a few Windows 10 systems, mostly unused just in case.

  25. An OS as a "Service"? I still don't get it... by X!0mbarg · · Score: 1

    The previous versions certainly weren't a "service".
    Updates, support and bug fixes. Those are a service to support a product.
    The OS itself?

    Am I the only one that feels like saying "humbug" to the notion?

    Maybe I should step up my Lubuntu education...
    Just in case.

  26. Fake games aka asset flips by tepples · · Score: 1

    Many of these thousands of games on Steam are fake games, tossed together in a weekend using unmodified or barely modified parts from Unity's Asset Store in an attempt to make money from Steam trading cards. Some reviewers refer to these as asset flips.

  27. Selling point of X11/Linux over Chrome by tepples · · Score: 1

    linux only works in places where you can hide it from the users (severs, smartphones).

    My cable modem runs on Linux. So does my wireless router.

    And web browsers will tell you they're insecure for either A. asking for a password over cleartext HTTP, or B. using HTTPS and having a certificate that isn't signed by a major certificate authority because your modem or router lacks a fully qualified domain name. Besides, assuming "severs" was a typo for "servers", that's what the administration interface of the cable modem and wireless router are.

    There's little incentive for manufacturers to use Linux over ChromeOS

    X11/Linux can run Chrome, many offline-centric native applications that are ported to a native toolkit such as Qt or GTK+, and many Windows applications through Wine. Chrome OS can run only Chrome without first being put into a self-destructing "developer mode." The selling point of X11/Linux over Chrome OS is that it runs these offline-centric applications without self-destructing. The selling point of X11/Linux over Windows is no royalty payable to Microsoft if the device's screen is bigger than 8 inches diagonal visible image size.

  28. No regedit in forthcoming W10 Lean by tepples · · Score: 1

    Just set the registry key to default your ethernet connection as metered

    There's no GUI editor for this setting, and insider builds of the forthcoming Windows 10 Lean add an objectionable "feature" of lacking a registry editor.