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North Korea's Leader Kim Jong-un Says He'll Give Up Weapons if US Promises Not to Invade (nytimes.com)
Several readers have shared a report: North Korea's leader, Kim Jong-un, told President Moon Jae-in of South Korea when they met that he would abandon his nuclear weapons if the United States would agree to formally end the Korean War and promise that it would not invade his country, a South Korean government spokesman said Sunday. In a faith-building gesture ahead of a summit meeting with President Trump, Mr. Kim also said he would invite experts and journalists from South Korea and the United States to watch the shutdown next month of his country's only known underground nuclear test site.
The comments by Mr. Kim were made on Friday when the leaders of the two Koreas met at Panmunjom, a village on their shared border, the spokesman, Yoon Young-chan, said on Sunday, providing additional details of the meeting. "I know the Americans are inherently disposed against us, but when they talk with us, they will see that I am not the kind of person who would shoot nuclear weapons to the south, over the Pacific or at the United States," Mr. Kim told Mr. Moon, according to Mr. Yoon's account of the meeting. It was another dramatically conciliatory statement by Mr. Kim, whose country threatened to do exactly those things during the height of nuclear tensions last year.
The comments by Mr. Kim were made on Friday when the leaders of the two Koreas met at Panmunjom, a village on their shared border, the spokesman, Yoon Young-chan, said on Sunday, providing additional details of the meeting. "I know the Americans are inherently disposed against us, but when they talk with us, they will see that I am not the kind of person who would shoot nuclear weapons to the south, over the Pacific or at the United States," Mr. Kim told Mr. Moon, according to Mr. Yoon's account of the meeting. It was another dramatically conciliatory statement by Mr. Kim, whose country threatened to do exactly those things during the height of nuclear tensions last year.
Yea, sure, we promise.
you'll be just fine
maybe we'll send a few cruise missiles or something, but boots on the ground is reserved for petro-nations
I still believe they will only care for 'complete world nuclear disarmament' as a condition of their own. Making it a non-starter for at least one party.
Just make sure they never find oil in NK and you'll be safe, Mr Kim.
"Promising" means withdrawing U.S troops from South Korea and removing South Korea and Japan from the U.S nuclear umbrella. Exactly what NK has been asking for all along
Imagine the public orgasms the media would be having if this had happened two years ago....
Why, there'd be tingles running up the legs of "news" anchors.
Maybe it's not so good to go around to bullies saying, "We're going to be nice to you, would you please be nice to me?"
The vendetta against Gaddafi after he had capitulated to giving up his nuclear weapons program is the primary reason NK hasn't given up its weapons program.
It will probably take the withdrawl of US forces from SK and aid to NK, and the formal acknowledgment of the continuation of the current NK regime in order to denuclearize NK. Even then, I wouldn't be certain they don't retain an actual nuke or two secretly now that they have them. This still probably won't address the effectively bigger threat of all of the NK artillery pointed at SK.
Instead of ignoring mostly-Chinese companies that do business with North Korea (as Presidents past have done), Trump is actually going after them:
US unveils largest sanctions yet on ships, companies trading with North Korea
The illegal foreign trade that Kim Jong-un uses to keep his army loyal is being threatened if not actually cut off. And he's squirming. Finally.
Just how badly *did* they screw up their nuclear test site? I mean - this about face is looking a bit too desperate. These guys need to bluff a little better (or did they also keep all their newly minted nuclear weapons at the same site and lost them too?)
But skeptics warned that North Korea previously made similar pledges of denuclearization on numerous occasions, with little or no intention of abiding by them. Mr. Kim’s friendly gestures, they said, could turn out to be nothing more than empty promises aimed at lifting sanctions on his isolated country.
The sanctions shouldn't lifted until it's been verified to be fully denuclearized. That would reduce that two year estimate.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
...whether Mr. Kim lying to a known lying sack of sh** (Resident Chump) even constitutes a moral turpitude rather than simple self-defense, for himself and his country.
mnem
"Don't trust a word he says; not even 'Hello'..."
he didnt also offer to pay for the wall that Mexico was supposed to.
They both have the same chance of happening.
All those people saying Trump should get a Nobel Peace Prize are probably the same idiots who thought Mexico would pay.
This of course has nothing to do with the fact the mountain they were testing their nukes under collapsed, and China is pissed that the radioactivity is liable to head their way.
It's: My guy can do no wrong. And the other side's guy is Hitler/Stalin/$Satan_Figure.
If something good happens while my guy is in office it's totally his doing. If something good happens while the other side's guy is in office it's totally due to luck/the previous guy.
Etc, Etc, lather rinse repeat.
And my side is virtuous unlike the immoral other side that has mostly the same human in_group/out_group motivations.
That the North Koreans will keep their word. I don't have much expectation of Kim Jong Un but it appears that he may be afraid of Trump or at least cannot predict what Trump will do if he rattles his saber much longer. Strength through superior firepower.
Faith: Belief in Truth. Superstition: Belief in Falsehood.
There's no oil in NK anyway.
We'll still figure out how to guarantee President Trump gets zero credit for this foreign policy win!
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
We'll not invade you. We'll just bomb you into the stone age!
It is a joke in the global community, that of ALL the freakin countries in the world, it is the USA who want others not to have nukes.
The ONE country who not only has by far the most nukes, but *actually* had leaders insane enoigh to use them! When their whole point is that you do not need to use them! Count all the crazy leaders with nukes who didn't. Yeah, sorry, the US leadership is more nuts and dangerous than all of them.
And why do they want it?
Precisely because having nukes is the only thing that halfway keeps the USA off your back.
They'll still fuck you with the CIA by trying to cause a revolution and put a literally-more-evil-than-a-religious-nutjob-Hitler dictator in place, of course. Or use vassals (like Saddam) to invade. Just ask Iran, Pakistan, etc.
But at least they don't openly invade and bomb you outright.
So, Kim-Yong Trump, ... dear leader ... how about we stop that shit first, before telling otherss what to do?
In a reasonable way, of course, where we'll still be safe, but don't make other so afraid of our invasions and wars that they want to build nukes.
Would that be a good start?
Will start the minute they agree to open the first KFC / McDonald's dumpster.
This solidifies 4 more years.
North Korea didn't flatten every city in the United States, nor has it engaged in the world's largest war games every year to invade the United States. That's what you did to them, all the while invading countries for BS reasons and overthrowing dozens of democracies. So who here really needs to have their words verified?
Kim still shot test nuke rockets after trump yelled fire and brimstone, and what happened? Nothing from Orangina.
"Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as non-nuclear-weapon State,
Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of[..]"
The Russian Federation,[...] reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, [...], to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine
The Russian Federation, [...] reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine[...]
The Russian Federation [...] reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine [...], to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.
etc, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Remember how badly America lost its shit after 911? Now imagine what this place would be like if a hostile foreign power leveled every American city in an illegal war, and since the 90's had been conducting the world's largest war games each and every year to practice for another invasion.
That's what the U.S. did and is doing to North Korea. Their pursuit of nuclear weapons and threats to use them - in a response to an attack on their country - is entirely rational.
Most US warmongering has been in countries surrounding Russia (and China a bit).
It is the same strategy since WWII: Create vassal states with evil dictators to do the dirty work for you, help out a bit with spme troops, the CIA and drones, and officially claim you are not at war.
Just look at all the goodwill!
With surprising speed and warmth, the presidents of North and South Korea reached a broad agreement on Wednesday to work for peace and unity on their bitterly divided peninsula, the biggest step by either side to ease tensions in 50 years.
The agreement, which came after more than three hours of talks in the North Korea capital, Pyongyang, on the second day of their first summit meeting, was signed and toasted by President Kim Dae Jung of South Korea and President Kim Jong Il of the North, who were shown on South Korean television clinking champagne glasses, shaking hands vigorously and smiling broadly.
[...]
The general points agreed on included the need for reconciliation and unification; the establishment of peace; the commencement in August of exchange visits by members of divided families; and more cultural exchanges.
Wait a minute... Kim Jong... Il?
Oooooh, that article is talking about the peace breakthrough from 2000. My bad, just got the wrong link!
I stole this Sig
North Korea has for years offered to draw back their weapons program if the United States would do such things as stop practice invasions or threatening first strikes against them.
There's an unhinged warmongering country that desperately needs to be reigned in and stripped of its weapons here - and over there is North Korea. American Exceptionalists who find fault with that statement, feel free to compare the number of countries that North Korea has attacked since the 1950's with the number America has bombed just since the year 2000.
This whole thing seems silly and confusing. All parties signed an agreement to this fact in 1953. The only reason the US would invade North Korea is if NK they started firing on someone, which they constantly keep threatening to do. They are the aggressors here. Why are they asking us for what we have alrwady given? Why is the aggressor asking us for peace? How about take away the artillery you have pointed at your neighbor?
Something is afoot here...
A promise to end a war that began in 1950 would be huge for the North Koreans, even if they did start it. Ending an expensive development program that they can't really afford would also be huge. So I can see that Crazy Kim sees brethren in our own leadership and would do the deal, with as much honesty as anyone can expect in today's world. He's even offering press and other officials complete access to his [known] facilities to verify the dismantling. No nukes with verification for us seems like a good deal for Trump. It would of course need to be signed by China as well. And I think it's not surprising to apparent mad men can come to terms. It takes on to know one, and they are both one.
Of course it does leave open cyber warfare where they seem to be doing better and to which South Korea is very susceptible. Good thing they only have a single block of 1,024 for the whole nation! (175.45.176.0 – 175.45.179.255.) Oh wait.. maybe that's not a problem.
What does that mean? Does it mean every American promises? No... Does it mean the entire US government promises unanimously? No... Does it mean that the people in CHARGE promise? Well, that is the option that can be described as the least untrue. Who is in charge here?
Ostensibly, it is the so-called president who is nominally in charge, when he can be bothered to kinda sorta do his job. So the question is, are HIS promises worth the toilet paper they are printed on, while the answer is, LOL, of course not!!! Just ask any moron who was stupid enough to loan that braying jackass MONEY! Hahahahaha...
Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
First of, this is an adults world, so the kids among us should drink they milk and go to bed before 22.
Much has been attained by the sword. That includes the pax americana and also some slavery abolishment in some places. Let's compare how many countries the US has occupied, enslaved and drained of resources since ever compared to the homologous number the commies (that also now rule in NK) have done. Tell me again how many houdreds of millions of ppl has the US condemned to abject poverty ?
What's that you say ? The USSR/China never created NK ?
Ignorant hippies. I'll just leave this here: http://assets4.bigthink.com/sy... (if the bottom is the American way then only a madman would argue with observable reality)
Sure Trump gets credit... for a being the Crazy Cop in a Crazy/Sane Cop approach to foreign policy. His approach to a much more capable adversary could lead to all-out Nuclear war.
But let's wait for a few years down the road to see how this all turns out.
Reality check time.
1. The DPR borders both China and Russia. Both nations have massive and very capable military forces and don't want a US presence on their back porch.
2. Pyongyang is only 160 km from the Chinese border city of Dandong.
3. Seoul is only about 50 km south of the DMZ. South Koreans aren't keen on the North Korean military flattening residential neighbourhoods just outside the capital. It wouldn't be good for business, either.
4. China is actively seeking a diplomatic solution to North Korea by encouraging a shift from militarization to manufacturing and cooperation with China and South Korea. The easiest solution is to pay off Kim Jong-Un and and neuter his military by paying off everyone in power, then provide employment and increasing prosperity and modernization for the DPR.
Large armies of rabble have beaten technologically superior enemies before. They've done it in Korea, in fact.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
It was great to see the North and South shake hands. :) Lets not waste this chance to make life better for everyone. Cant we just get along, respect each other.
[($)]
I can't wait until Trump weighs in... he'll say something like "We promise we won't invade, but we may invade if we feel we have to. You never knows what's going to happen. I'm not saying we won't invade but we probably won't invade."
However; there is another factor going on that most Slashdotters don't seem to be aware of: According to multiple sources, the nuclear test site at Punggye-ri has collapsed and has been experiencing landslides. Apparently the whole mountain is caving in on itself. What I think happened is that the test explosions combined with an unforeseen fault in the mountain, catching the researchers off guard. There is no information regarding the fate of the researchers and all of their painfully acquired equipment of course, but it seems quite possible that a lot of un-replaceable equipment and perhaps even some key researchers were lost in the process.
Kim Jung-Un can't rattle the nuclear sabre if the sabre has been taken away. Much of the resources needed to pursue a nuclear program, both materials and know how, had to be smuggled in over the course of years or even decades. Anything North Korea lost in the geological event(s) will take years to replace. And, after rattling the nuclear sabre and having at least partial success in test explosions, the economic sanctions and blockades are going to be more carefully enforced. It may be impossible for North Korea to resume its research and testing in time to save it. Because...
Other reports last year hinted that North Korea was forecasting yet another massive famine for its people. The phrase that sticks in my mind was "A year when The People ate grass". Last summer, when the sabre rattling started to ramp up coincided with yet another drought in North Korea. I thought then, and still think now, that North Korea resorted to sabre rattling again to try and extort more famine relief from the west like it had done many times in the past. (Which the North Korean gov't has always spun as being "war reparations" to its people.)
The west has been predicting the collapse of North Korea for decades, only to be proven wrong again and again as the North Korean people prove just how much can be endured. However, this time I think the North Korean government is the one predicting a collapse.
In my opinion, the only barrier to North Korea formally surrendering and re-uniting the people is bargaining for some kind of escape and immunity for the upper echelons so that they can avoid justice for the massive toll of crimes and human rights violations they have perpetrated against their own people. I predict that we are going to see rumours of special arrangements for the top officials floated about to test public reception just before they make that a formal point in the peace talks.
I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
My opinion might not be worth much, but out of the four tunnels, one is completely f'ed up, what the 38North website refers to as the North Portal. This is where five nuclear explosions occurred culminating with the H-bomb that definitely ruined this part of the test site. :)
The South Portal leads to where the fizzle test of 2006 occurred iirc.
The West Portal has been readied for testing and has seen maintenance from the end of 2017 till now. It's possible it may be usable, although we won't apparently get to "verify" this
There's another tunnel, and Kim Jong Un has referred to the latter two with talking with president Moon.
What if the scenario was the following.
1. Kim Jon Il, and now his pimple faced son, Kim Jon Un tried for a long time to build up a scare towards the West, that they would have nuclear missiles to be able to attack South Korea, Japan and USA.
2. They were however for a long time not successful, with neither missiles of a decent range, nor nuclear tests.
3. Recently they were able to make some subterranean tests that they claimed were even thermonuclear (hydrogen bombs), but that I can't find any evidence of even being nuclear. A lot of classical explosives to make a large blast, and then some kind of nuclear radiation to simulate a nuclear blast may have been what they did.
4. Until very recently NK was very unsuccessful in their missile tests, but suddenly after the Russia-Ukraine spat, they were very successful.
5. So, could it be that NK was able to get hold of some missile engines from the Ukraine/Russia area, and use those in a number of tests showing the world that now they had finally broken into a successful line of making ICBMs that could even hit all of USA soil?
6. Now they are out of those engines, so they won't be able to make more successful launches, and therefore want to negotiate a peace treaty.
7. They have never been able to make successful nuclear bombs, and definitely not missile war heads, but pretending that they can, they want to use that for negotiation.
So, what I want to say with this message is, don't give NK too much credit when negotiating with them, because their capabilities aren't significant!
They still rely heavily on the support from China and Russia, so focus should shift away from NK, to China and Russia, and pressure on those countries.
North Korea in itself is insignificant to negotiate with.
He took the title of shahansha in the 60s, tried to reform Iran into a more secular country. Yup was a Playboy and brutal with the Muslim fundamentalists
Sha Na Na just didn't belong at Woodstock.
The guarantees of territorial integrity for Ukraine under the Budapest Memorandum did not work so well for Ukraine. I recommend keeping at least 2-3 to enforce this promise.
When ever the US ever kept a promise to a foreign power? Once the administration changes or the situation changes we reevaluate our position and discard promises we've made.
Finally someone who has been paying attention... Thanks.
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what would you say then... what would the media say?
Keep in mind, Obama got a Nobel Peace prize JUST for getting elected in the first place.
I suspect that everyone but Trump is going to get a peace prize even though ... increasingly people just need to concede that they're not even paying attention, don't even care what happens, all that matters is crass tribal loyalty... Because nothing short of mindless tribalism justifies the standing behavior.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
The results are piling up. Some will deny until the stars burn cold... but if the results keep coming in they're going to find themselves increasingly isolated.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Coincidentally Tump might have called it , Kim rumored to have health issues. This could help drive a change of heart or liver or whatever ails him. Perhaps desires accesss to Western medicine or needs to bide time etc... My guess based on his very obese body and pics of him smoking he has something like diabetes. Anyway have to wait and see. So far the usual propaganda theatrics.
Because getting rid of all the weapons of mass destruction or WMD's as Bush liked to call them worked out well for Iraq, they complied fully with international demands, which the US knew full well but went ahead and made up some crap about WMD and invaded them, not to steal the oil but to bring this belligerent nation to heel.
We have no idea what is going on in North Korea and never have. So what we have is speculation, not even anything like informed speculation. Kim has never done anything remotely crazy except in the minds of American media "experts" without expertise. The only threats made were contingent on United States actions.
As for the Korean War, the argument of who started it was similar to the one in Vietnam. In both places, the American supported government refused to hold elections that would likely have unified the country under a communist leadership. If you start with the premise that it is one country, then those separatist rump governments started the war.
Sounds like a fair deal to me. Of course the promise not to invade would hinge upon N. Korea actually giving up its nukes.
It's better to have your boys killed over there than ours over here.
Welcome to reality, dipshit. It's cold and brutal. Be thankful America is on top. China, Russia, or Iran would be torturing you for speaking out like you did.
Donald: Hey, Kim and the Norks say that they want to talk, and they made a huge statue of me as a peace offering. Bring it in.
George Bush broke the Clinton-era deal which started North Korea down the nuclear path. After being labeled as part of Bush's "Axis of Evil" NK offered to re-join the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, end its nuclear program and put itself under IAEA inspection, in exchange for the US ending the Korean War and giving NK non-aggression assurances. But Bush turned the deal down.
As former president (and repeated US-NK back-channel negotiator) Jimmy Carter wrote in his 24 Nov. 2010 Washington Post op-ed:
"Pyongyang has sent a consistent message that during direct talks with the United States, it is ready to conclude an agreement to end its nuclear programs, put them all under IAEA inspection and conclude a permanent peace treaty to replace the ‘temporary’ cease-fire of 1953..."
Like Trump or not, it's good to see a US president helping to finally end that war.
For as much criticism Trump (rightfully) gets, this is a win for him and he deserves to be congratulated and remembered for it. I don't even think it's a case of lucky timing. It appears his.... bat-shit crazy strategy of fluffery and brinksmanship successfully scared N. Korean's leadership, or sufficiently motivated China's influence in that direction. A change in strategy. Isn't there something about the benefits of having a psychopath general because the opposition can't predict him? Looks like that's what was needed to break the logjam.
Swords to fucking plowshears. It's a good day for the world. And in all honesty, congratulation President Trump.
(God that felt weird to type. Knowing the guy though, he'll complain about it not being a good deal. At this point, he's just lost the ability to shock me.)
Seems to be a lot of Pro War commenting on slashdot as of late.
I guess with influence comes the attention of the misinformation agents of various agencies.
That Kim might used his nuclear and missile program to force the US to stop threatening to invade, or to blow them to radioactive dust.
It might be noted that when people have guns pointed at you, you're not likely to become more kind and laid back....
How well did that work for Ukraine? After the fall of the USSR, Ukraine gave up its nukes with the promise that the US, Russia, and UK would defend it if ever invaded. Since then, it's been invaded by Russia 'annexing' Crimea, and a direct invasion which Russia claims is a civil war. Anyone with half a brain can tell that this is a violation of the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances. Nobody should believe any assurances from the US (or anyone else) in exchange for their nukes.
I didn't know we were still in the 1950s.
I counter with one simple, current example. The Iranian Nuclear Treaty.
Yeah, don't bother with the "but Trump didn't reaffirm it" line. Everyone agrees the Iranians are compliant with the deal. Only Big Giant Orange Head suddenly wants to add in all kinds of extra stuff, terms that aren't part of the treaty.
OK, but why didn't those regional peace and stability items make it into the treaty in the first place?
1). Bit of a history between America and Iran. Lots of conflict and head-butting there;
2). Throwing everything into one deal would have probably scuttled any chance of signing anything at all;
3). Iranian-American relations could really use a win. Seriously, there's little chance of improved relations if even a successful, signed/sealed/delivered deal, can't survive domestic American politics.
Also, anyone notice that Big Giant Orange Head is claiming all the credit for the North Korean overtures? I'll bet South Korea has something to say on that, though they might not say it publically.
Also, anyone notice that BGOH thinks that only HE can make a breakthrough on international relations? Obama won breakthroughs with Iran and Cuba. Therefore BGOH has to talk smack about those deals; his ego is fragile and entirely based upon opposition to "others" who are "losers and terrible people".
Conservatives would do it. In fact they already have. ...Conservatives have denounced and walked back improved relations with Cuba. ...Conservatives have denounced and strongly hinted they intend to end the Iranian Nuclear Treaty. A treaty which, objectively speaking, has been a grand-slam Home Run of success. And for which, I would add, there is no plausible alternative except to let the Iranians get nuclear weapons, or perhaps yet another war in a Middle-Eastern type setting.
No, don't tell me about Big Giant Orange Head's self-proclaimed negotiating skills. While he may have some modest talents, he has no leverage with Iran and he has been talking smack about them since he was a candidate. The Iranians don't have to like BGOH but they do have to trust that he will negotiate in good faith and keep his word. Once he has abrogated a signed treaty, why would they do either? No matter what fantasy BGOH has about his personal charisma, at the international level, opponents like Iran are more concerned with the reputation of the country rather than the current occupant of the White House.
What were you saying about "what the biggest dick thing to do would be and saying conservatives would do it?" What were you saying about "hate mongering?" Were you admitting that the Conservatives under BGOH have already been dicks and hate mongers? Because if you aren't, then we are done here.
What does Trump have to do with it? Kim Jong-Un just met with China's leadership. If anyone deserves a peace prize of this, it's them.
if the United States would agree to formally end the Korean War and promise that it would not invade his country
Rather hard to believe that Mr Kim would actually trust Mr Trump with anything. I would not, knowing his pervasive tendency to lie.
So, there MUST be some covert caveat or other agenda up Mr Kim's proverbial sleeve.
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
Actually Japan bitch slapped China for a long time; hence the reason Chinese bitch slaps Japan now
according to the south korean president and the foreign minister of south korea... trump gets credit... I mean... that's what they said.
I understand your problem here. But it can't be hand waved any more than you can fly by flapping your arms... its just too much.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Donald Trump's Ghostwriter Tells All (July 25, 2016)
"The Art of the Deal (published in 1987) made America see Trump as a charmer with an unfailing knack for business. Tony Schwartz helped create that myth -- and regrets it."