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Studies Find Evidence That Meditation Is Demotivating (nytimes.com)
An anonymous reader shares an excerpt from a report written by behavioral scientists Kathleen D. Vohs and Andrew C. Hafenbrack: The practical payoff of mindfulness [meditation] is backed by dozens of studies linking it to job satisfaction, rational thinking and emotional resilience. But on the face of it, mindfulness might seem counterproductive in a workplace setting. To test this hunch, we recently conducted five studies, involving hundreds of people, to see whether there was a tension between mindfulness and motivation. As we report in a forthcoming article in the journal Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes, we found strong evidence that meditation is demotivating.
Some of the participants in our studies were trained in a few of the most common mindfulness meditation techniques. They were instructed by a professional meditation coach to focus on their breathing or mentally scan their bodies for physical sensations, being gently reminded throughout that there was no right or wrong way to do the exercise. Other participants were led through a different exercise. Some were encouraged to let their thoughts wander; some were instructed to read the news or write about recent activities they had done. Then we gave everyone a task to do. Among those who had meditated, motivation levels were lower on average. Those people didn't feel as much like working on the assignments, nor did they want to spend as much time or effort to complete them. Meditation was correlated with reduced thoughts about the future and greater feelings of calm and serenity -- states seemingly not conducive to wanting to tackle a work project. The studies also found that meditation "neither benefited nor detracted from a participant's quality of work." Furthermore, Vohs and Hafenbrack found that a financial bonus for outstanding performance did not overcome the demotivating effect of mindfulness. "While the promise of material rewards will always be a useful tool for motivating employees, it is no substitute for internal motivation," the report reads.
Some of the participants in our studies were trained in a few of the most common mindfulness meditation techniques. They were instructed by a professional meditation coach to focus on their breathing or mentally scan their bodies for physical sensations, being gently reminded throughout that there was no right or wrong way to do the exercise. Other participants were led through a different exercise. Some were encouraged to let their thoughts wander; some were instructed to read the news or write about recent activities they had done. Then we gave everyone a task to do. Among those who had meditated, motivation levels were lower on average. Those people didn't feel as much like working on the assignments, nor did they want to spend as much time or effort to complete them. Meditation was correlated with reduced thoughts about the future and greater feelings of calm and serenity -- states seemingly not conducive to wanting to tackle a work project. The studies also found that meditation "neither benefited nor detracted from a participant's quality of work." Furthermore, Vohs and Hafenbrack found that a financial bonus for outstanding performance did not overcome the demotivating effect of mindfulness. "While the promise of material rewards will always be a useful tool for motivating employees, it is no substitute for internal motivation," the report reads.
they just realized that their work assignments weren't very meaningful?
So in other words meditating daily does not motivate most people to want to do their shitty jobs any more than not meditating. Got it.
You are now breathing manually.
I think these people just realized the actual value of what they were doing.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
You are now blinking manually.
#DeleteFacebook
We can't have people being zen about everything instead of stabbing each other in the back and ratting everybody out to Corporate.
... and other pratices of spritiuality and stoicism makes you more chill and less prone to societies rate-race bullshit.
Next up:
Eating healthy has you spend less money at fast-food joints!
Learning a real skill or art has you spend less time watching TV and spending money on pointless tat!
Regular good sex with a cute sweetheart has you spend less money on expensive brand fashion!
News brought to you by CORI - Captain Obvious Research Institute.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
The title is total clickbait.
From the article: "Then we tracked everyone’s actual performance on the tasks. Here we found that on average, having meditated neither benefited nor detracted from a participant’s quality of work."
Being content makes you less motivated change things.
munchies
(When actually, it’s just that the wealth generated by said automation is not owned by you and me, when it could be. ... E.g. by *us* buying the robots and us still applying for jobs, but letting the robots do them for us. Or with a robot tax. Or just with everything becoming so dirt-cheap that we barely need to work to afford it. Instead of certain leeches in suits just continuing to mooch on society. ... No communism etc needed. Just the biggest possible enemy of a modern for-profit corporation: An actually free market.)
.... I do mindfulness meditation. It helps relieve stress, to learn the physical precursors of your triggers and fight off the reactions to them. I generally do it late in the day, for the specific purpose of de-compressing, relaxing, at a time when I don't necessarily need to be motivated.
So meditating made them less eager to participate in your study.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
it's not that I'm lazy. It's that I just don't care.
Hah, that didn't work.
My wife, however... she knows spitters are quitters.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
If you go in believing meditation will improve your life then its a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you go in open-minded or not having much faith in it then its one of those things that just wont work. It's a placebo.
> But on the face of it, mindfulness might seem counterproductive in a workplace setting.
You don't say.
What you've argued is that someone will probably never do something that they have no internal motivation to do without an external material reward.
What parent was questioning was the claim that someone will always do something they have no internal motivation to do, so long as they receive a reward for doing it.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Our touchy feely dentist does weird things like having someone on staff to offer you a hand or neck massage. I replied "no thank you, I prefer to remain tense, keeps me sharp".
https://www.ped30.com/2018/06/...
Has your meditation practice influenced how you lead?
Having a beginnerâ(TM)s mind informs my management style. Iâ(TM)m trying to listen deeply, and the beginnerâ(TM)s mind is informing me to step back, so that I can create what wants to be, not what was. I know that the future does not equal the past. I know that I have to be here in the moment.
IMHO - Meditation viewed in a vacuum sans underlying Buddhist philosophy is incoherent, but unfortunately common. The Buddha taught that the point of meditation is to achieve awakening, which is done though the reduction of craving and aversion. By reducing ones fear of failure or desire for success one becomes more free from the suffering inexorably associated with fleeting pursuits, though they are arguably the primary drivers of our economic system. Motivation to pursue things that don't really increase your happiness (i.e. working like a dog to please your boss or to avoid feeling like a loser or to buy a Lambo) will dissipate the more one has the focus to see what really matters in life, which is what meditation will lead to if done correctly. Yet again, the NYT misses the point!
I had a decent job with a mainstream employer.
There was a lot of email to wade through.
Much of which seemed pointless.
For a reason I don't recall (probably going on leave for a week or two) I built up a backlog of email.
Due to the need to do actual WORK It was not practical to address the backlog.
Most of the backlog went unanswered
Most of the backlog went unread.
There were no repercussions.
I started looking at email just once a day.
then once every few days
then once a week.
There were no repercussions.
If there was something important to address, people would call/voicemail, or drop by my cube.
If I knew there was something specific being emailed, I would watch for it.
Much stress was avoided
Much time was saved
There were no repercussions.
I remained with that company for several years on good terms.
There is much bullshit even in good jobs. ...from the point of view of those whose purpose -assigned or chosen- is the creation and propagation of bullshit
Perhaps -from time to time- mentally "stepping back" and asking 'what is really going on here'
allows some of the bullshit to be detected and avoided.
the avoidance of bullshit probably represents a loss of productivity.
Those who practice such avoidance
may be seen as lacking
Motivation.
Breathe in
hold
Exhale....
To those who claim "Resistance is futile"
I reply...
"Ohm".... Ohmmmm..... OOOhmmm
When one spends time doing meditation, one can start to see how stupid things are in the world around us. That can be demotivating. BUT, it can also open up new paradigms. Sitting still, doing nothing (except breathing of course), there is a lot of noise in our heads. After a while (time frame indeterminant), the noise subsides and often a clear idea emerges about a path to follow. Such an activity is similar to doing software development when an difficult problem is encountered. Getting away from the problem and maybe taking a quiet walk reveals the source and the solution to the problem.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!" -- Dr. Strangelove
I find it really hard to call investigations like this 'science' when they're so subjective and impossible to measure in a consistent manner. That's not to say that having numbers helps guarantee that research is 'science'. Look at so-called climate 'science'. Yes, there are numerical measurements of various kinds involved, but they've also been subjected to 'adjustments' that render them untrustworthy. Or these numerical values have been derived in questionable ways, especially for measurements relating to thousands or millions of years ago. Science requires the use of raw, unadjusted, objective numerical measurements in order to be carried out properly.
Let me get this straight - In your view Cosmology is not at all science. Astronomy is not science. Anything that does not have a har number is not science.
Cool definition bro!
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I would assume that being work-focused and driven is not the state one achieves with mindfulness, particularly if you are in the wrong job.... For some jobs I could see mindfulness being very beneficial, eg social worker, teacher perhaps?
Consider that behind understanding there is a certain awareness that puts one outside of the usual human beliefs and activities. There is theology as well as philosophy involved. The great religious leaders are consistent in rejection of this world. Those who strive tend to want more of this world whereas people a bit more advanced seek nothing at all. The temptations of Christ are a huge example with a shocking list of things people most value being described as worthless. Looking at the span of time that has already passed in this universe a human life span is almost zero. How can a thing have value that only exists for a very brief moment? Is advancement in society or living conditions of any value at all? Imagine if people took the instructions of Christ seriously. "Take all that you have and give it unto the poor.". That one sentence would totally destroy the entire structure of this world. Buddha and Lao Tze would teach the same lessons in different ways. Own nothing, seek nothing valued in this world and even more all are part of meditation . When Christ remarked "Pick up your cross and follow me." we are being instructed to make our lives a living crucifiction. By rejecting the desires and values of this world one is open to salvation.
Maybe he's thinking of cosmetology and astrology.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
The secret to happiness is to remove false expectations.
This research is terribly short-sighted. In addition to the things already pointed out, having a mental "break" from tasks, complex things, burdensome work, etc. I would argue will probably be good for your motivation long term.
Personally, as hard as it is to do sometimes, the best thing for my motivation and performance often times is to remove myself from something that's really bugging me or challenging me. Coming back I feel ready to try again and usually with some new ideas.
For this study we trained three sets of people in common coding techniques, they were instructed to think in terms of âseparation of concernsâ(TM), âabstractionâ(TM) and to âwrite unit testsâ(TM) - and the results indicated massive demotivation in the face of of an actual programming task in a team of very experienced programmers....
first, my background: I've been practicing buddhist meditation for 15 years. I've even lived at temples and completed extensive retreats. I currently live at a temple and practice 2-3 hours 3-4 days a week (permitting) along with my full time job. I am single and not dating (I'm on slashdot...).
Meditation is not a cure all like it hocked in the media. It wont solve your depression or make you less anxious or make you last longer in bed or....
Done with proper guidance and care, both in terms of access to long term practitioners for advice and to medical care in case something unpleasant happens, because it can and probably will eventually, it can be unbelievably beneficial to the practitioner and those surrounding them.
Meditation does however, have a great effect on a ton of stuff. In fact, it addresses the problem that supercedes all other problems, making it something of a cure all for all sorts of ails.
the difference between the statements of meditation doesn't cure anxiety or depression and blah blah blah, and meditation does have a great effect on a ton of stuff, is that meditation deals with how life unfolds moment to moment from an internal perspective (from your perspective, you're the one doing it after all). And when you start to understanding whats REALLY going on moment to moment, and how all of this works, a lot of that painful, negative stuff just stops happening.
That takes many, many years of practice. It may make you a better worker because you're spending less time dealing with internal crap that prevents you from focusing correctly, and it may allow you to see boring things in a new way which isn't painful. But that doesn't necessarily make you fill them out any faster, it just makes you less miserable to all others. So it both does and it doesn't have a giant effect.
It's great that meditation is starting to become more common, but it will never work in the way these corporate people want it to.
Pay no attention to them Buddists, sez the boffin from Catholic U.
Anything that does not have a har number is not science.
I looked that up. The har number is 7,136,291,900. Had to Bing it, though.
Gee, I didn't realize that selling a house was so involved -- I guess they really DO repeat the results.
If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
I'll bet none of them said they were doing it BEFORE becoming billionaires.
Anything that does not have a har number is not science.
I looked that up. The har number is 7,136,291,900. Had to Bing it, though. Gee, I didn't realize that selling a house was so involved -- I guess they really DO repeat the results.
har har.
But anyhow, My astronomy friends, who are restricted to observing and reporting would be amused that that AC on Slashdot does not consider their work as science.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
What the fuck kind of kindergarten cosmology and astronomy are you doing to not be doing extensive mathematics and computation?! Those are some of the most mathematically-intense fields there are! Calculating and simulating the orbital dynamics of millions of bodies is not mathematically trivial, for example.
Despite your protestations, it is all observational, and those intense mathematics are being updated all the time.
Which by the way, means the old mathematics were quite wrong.
I consider it science, AC's might think otherwise.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
If you're working a job you dislike, meditation will help you realize that you don't like it. You're getting in touch with your subconscious. It may have been trying to tell you that there are better, more fulfilling options that will make you happier.
Meditation has always helped me be more creative. If your job doesn't allow for you to be creative, meditation will probably demonstrate to you what you've been missing. Coming out of a meditation session to do mundane work isn't a particularly good match. In fact I'd imagine it would just make the work that much less desirable to do, which is what was found in the study.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Hello, I saw your article in the New York Times about mindfulness meditation, and the lack of positive results in a test of motivation and business skills following a session. The issue is that you studied the wrong type of meditation. All the studies that indicated improved performance after meditation (or of regular practitioners of meditation) were done with Transcendental Meditation. TM is the most extensively studied meditation technique, with the most positive measurable results. But all meditation techniques are not the same; the use of the word “meditation” is not restricted or copyrighted, so studying “meditation” is like studying “medicine” without specifying which medicine is being tested. Mindfulness meditation tends to make people passive, while TM makes people dynamic, yet calm and happy. I suggest you consult the research on TM to learn more. Let me know if you have any questions or comments. Bruce Merchant
The whole point of meditation is to bring your total focus into the current moment, the here and now, and to help you understand that you are complete and whole in that moment .... that you don't NEED anything.
So doesn't it make sense that something trains you to feel complete in the moment and helps you understand that you don't need to be somewhere else or to collect more things would make you feel less motivation to work harder for no reason in order to chase and acquire more things?
it means the meditation is working! this studie confirms it is not just a fad and actually does what it is supposed to do.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
...And the company loves misery.
Get back to work, you!
"Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
The gospel according to Jordan B Peterson — 21 April 2018
Serenity doesn't pay the bills. Meanwhile, lugging a 100-lb sack of wet salt back and forth across the Auschwitz quadrangle keeps you out of the furnace for another day.
If your child required you to lug a 100-lb sack of wet salt for miles and miles in order to be spared from a cruel disease, the situation would be (A) in no wise different, (B) meaningful, rather than cruel and pointless.
Typical fallacy of Buddhism. Through the baby out with the bath water.
We all have basic needs -- the desire is NOT the problem.
i.e.
* Wanting to be a better person is a very noble goal.
* Wanting food and drink to quench your hunger is fine.
The suffering starts when your expectation is out of alignment with reality.
i.e.
* Defeatist / Pessimistic attitude
* I don't have "enough" food.
Having the planets revolve around the earth is wrong. Noting the planets orbit the sun as a circle instead of an ellipse is wrong. Noting the planets orbit in ellipses instead of noticing that due to the gravity of the other planets, they aren't ellipses either is wrong. The three statements above are wrong on so many levels. If you call them equivalent, you are ignorant.
Who are you arguing with AC? All of the above are examples of the nature of observational science. You observe, and you learn. You fit the math to the facts.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.