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In This Economy, Quitters Are Winning (wsj.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: Workers are choosing to leave their jobs at the fastest rate since the internet boom 17 years ago and getting rewarded for it with bigger paychecks and/or more satisfying work. Labor Department data show that 3.4 million Americans quit their jobs in April, near a 2001 peak and twice the 1.7 million who were laid off from jobs in April. Job-hopping is happening across industries including retail, food service and construction, a sign of broad-based labor-market dynamism. Workers have been made more confident by a strong economy and historically low unemployment, at 3.8% in May, the lowest since 2000. Ms. Enoch started getting interview opportunities the same day she began sending out applications online. The trend could stoke broader wage growth and improve worker productivity, which have been sluggish in the past decade. Workers tend to get their biggest wage increases when they move from one job to another. Job-switchers saw roughly 30% larger annual pay increases in May than those who stayed put over the past 12 months, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta.
I quit my last job where I'd been for 14 years for stability; however, we were acquired 4 times in 3 years.
The last acquisition was by a company that hadn't given at least some staff pay rises for 8 years. That doesn't make you think they're too worried about shedding staff.
My department manager walked back a raise promised after my review.
I ended up moving to another department who needed help and asked for the same raise.
Employers and managers are just out of touch and assume most people are just too lazy and comfortable like them and won't move around.
Well, why is that surprising?
American companies are known for exploiting their employees, treating them like shit, paying them as low as they can, and firing them as soon as they can. I, for a change, have job that I'm unlikely to leave any time soon. Why? Because they're paying me a very good salary, and they're treating me very well. They see the human part in their employees, unlike Americans who see their employees as disposable machines. I don't work in the USA, but I used to work for 2 American companies. Now I work for a Scandinavian company, and I love it.
Locations with high levels of job hopping tend to be more productive and prosperous than locations with more stability. Job hoppers spread ideas. Freedom to quit and freedom to fire mean that unproductive and unhappy people are more likely to go where they are a better fit.
Churn is good.
So lower unemployment, lower taxes, and "30% larger annual pay increases" for people changing jobs is a bad thing?
Yes, for the wealthy who have to share more of the profit.
My company has instituted a regular 2.5% average pay raise because that’s what they budget for.
Until they frenzy scramble for a crisis or the new political hotness project in which case money is no object and they’ll hire above the market rate to get their favorites in.
In my career this is the norm - not the exception and my biggest pay raises have always come when I jumped ship. Only 2 times in about the 10 companies I’ve been in was this not and both were headed up by the original founder of the company who believed in paying people what they were worth (so long as the company was being profitable). All the others have been corporate MBA’s who got hired in to promote dynamic synergistic growth in the current market space.
Seriously 'Quitter'? These are just people changing jobs; never mind the ones that were laid off or fired. I guess it's too much in the eyes of WSJ to let the peons change their allegiance. I guess they'd prefer the slave workers to keep working until the same place until they die; without raise. Since this is 4th of July, I give a big FU to WSJ and hooray for some independence and dignity for the average worker.
yeah, cut the bullshit. We see through your fake posting.
What's really happening is, that to the dismay of the retarded progressives, the economy is responding to the eviction of Obama and the progressives, and job opportunities are opening, allowing people to get a promotion, both internally and externally. I know you desperately want to see Trump lose, but you're just a shallow, wrong, asshole.
That in those days, the west was ruled by a religion called capitalism, which worshipped the very notions of betrayal and greed.
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
A job is something you stay at. Long term benefits traded for long term benefits on both sides, including protection.
A gig is short term. A stepping stone. You don't stand for long on any individual stepping stone. Great upside in a rising economy, with a potential downside when the economy falters. There's still a trade of benefits. That part doesn't change.
Both can be called careers. That's the personal development side. Beware however, employees and employers both. You reap what you sow.
Having income growth levels of 3.25% vs 2.5% (30% more) while the rich double and triple their income doesn't solve the problem.
Our issue is not what any other country is taking from us and not what the government is taking from us. Those are just distractions thrown at us by the people getting rich off of the real issue.
Our issue is the larger and larger piece of the pie going to the few while the lower income bracket has steadily grown since 1980ish. We are no longer the country of opportunity for all. Many others have higher percentage chances for people to move up from the income bracket they were born in than America today.
We need a change that restores respect to real work. The hardest workers in America typically get paid the least, and that is not right. The growth in the service industry only exacerbates the problem. People don't respect those mowing the grass or changing their oil when they have never, even in their childhood, gotten off of their fat asses and mowed their own grass or changed their own oil.
The most critical aspect of the days when America was allegedly great is that the typical upper-level executive in a company made about 300% more than the lowest worker on the factory floor - not 3,000% or more.
It's you.
Try not being you. It might help.
Perhaps your charming self just isn't coming across well. Try cleaning yourself up beforehand - bathe (with soap and shampoo!) and wear clean, professional clothes. Also, try being polite during interviews. Very few companies are willing to hire people that are rude, crude, or offensive.
On the other hand, it could be your skills. If you haven't worked in years, have you been producing personal projects to demonstrate your skills to prospective employers? Keep up to date in current technologies with projects you can show off, especially since if you've gone several years without working potential employers will wonder if you've gotten rusty.
Basically - if you have three interviews a week on average for several years, but still haven't gotten hired, there is something wrong with YOU. And from your post, it's most likely your attitude, you lying scumbag. There are plenty of jobs, asshole.
In any economy, winners are able to quit.
I know dozens of people stuck at dead end jobs because they can't go 90-180 days w/o health care. Only the top tier stuff has day 1 health care. This is one of the big reasons I want single payer in America (besides that it saves $17 trillion over the next 10 years. Seriously, we could pay off the National Debt in my lifetime). Wanna see wages go up across the board? Give everyone healthcare so they can demand higher wages. Rising tide/all boats and all that.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
No impact to the budget other than a 1 time cost for a lawyer to draft it up.
Not allowed in California, and a couple of other states. (Good for them!)
In some states other such as Georgia, you can have one shoved in your face and told "Sign it or be fired".
American companies are known for exploiting their employees, treating them like shit
In Japan, many Japanese workers work to death.
Same thing happens in Korea, Taiwan and China.
In Bangladesh, workers are routinely locked inside the building they work in and many had been burned to death when fire broke out.
In India, employers have been known to beat their workers to death.
If you are thinking that only American companies treating their employees like shit, please wake the fuck up and smell the coffee.
All companies are alike. To the bosses, their workers are slaves , to be worked to death, without pity.
Thanks for insulting my appearance, sight unseen. I don't know why I bother to bathe every day and wear clean clothes. Thanks for insulting my skills too. I don't know why I bother to continue work on unpaid personal coding projects to keep my skills up.
I'm always irrationally optimistic during interviews. It's irrational to assume any interview will be different from every other interview. After all, every employed person is SHIT LIKE YOU, and SHIT LIKE YOU is never hiring.
The absolute worst part of being an open source coder is I'm not compensated when undeserving SHIT LIKE YOU take my hard work and use it for your own benefit.
Have you considered that I'm bitter because of SHIT LIKE YOU who are constantly lying about the existence of jobs that don't exist?
Now how about you go fuck yourself and die in a fire?
"The trend could stoke broader wage growth and improve worker productivity, which have been sluggish in the past decade." I could give a fuck about worker productivity. It's been going up and up for a couple decades with barely any wage growth. Companies have profited immensely from workers fearing losing their job. You want real wage growth? Do like said above and decouple health insurance from business. Then people could really go find jobs worth the pay.
Share. Lol. Go earn it. Trust me, it feels better that way.
+1
Can the orange guy try it?
We're plenty sea worthy. It's just all the spoils are going to the top 1%. I'd say it's high time for mutiny.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
"B-bu-but other people have stuff I want! Its not faiwr! Its NOT FAIWR!!"
Now you sound like one of those 1%ers.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
All the economic growth is thanks to presidents Hillary, Obama and Ford of course. The pro-immigrant, globalized, zero tariff trade system works very well indeed.
From a well known well capitalized company and yet my income is not higher, this is another of the "ghosting" articales of how mean employees are... again, wait I have heard this before, Early 90's, not enough experience, Late 90's not 15 years exp with java, early 00's no whatever that stupid protocal with low bandwidth for modile was, mid 00's no javascript, 2010... you just don't fit with our corporate culture.. so here we are the next excuse to not hire people.
Yep, when you're at the bottom of a hole, the only way is up. BTW, are we talking quitting a job at McDonald's to get a job at Starbucks because after working at McDonald's you now have service experience?
Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.
Again, your vitriol shows that you are unwilling and unable to work with adults and that you are unable to be a productive member of society. Telling someone to go die is testament to this. There is nothing you can say from here on out that will show you have any saving virtues. Please seek psychological help.
Support your local school shooter, give them your firearms.
Thank you for your honest assessment. I think I will seek counseling for my issues. Hopefully that counts as a redeeming issue. Meanwhile, I will continue to work on my programming skills and contribute to open source projects.
Software developers are in high demand, everywhere. I am a software developer, possibly even less skilled than you, and I have never ever had trouble finding work when I wanted it (mostly in and around Denver, CO). My friends that are software developers....they also have no trouble finding work, and no end of solicitors trying to convince them to hop jobs.
I am involved in the hiring process at my current job. We don't have very many candidates, and the good ones usually have rival job offers that we must bid against.
What you are saying about yourself simply does not compute. The talents you have can't be the reason you can't find work. Not in this market, where those very talents are in high demand.
It must be something else about you that drives employers away. Your pride doesn't want to hear it. But you simply aren't looking at things objectively.
You are, of course, free to continue blaming the rest of the world for your inability to engage with it. No one will force you to change your position. But so long as you hold on to that position, you will remain an angry person who can't find work.
Seriously, see a therapist or something. You sound confused.
I have a better idea: you die. You've already admitted that you fill an HR role which means you're a worthless parasite upon productive people and you don't do any useful work at all. You're a useless fraud. Die.
Capitalism is not a religion. It has no supernatural beings, no miraculous claims, no songs or ceremonies, no membership rituals, and above all, no impossible-to-prove claims about the physical world.
Capitalism is the organizational model in which the means of production can be owned by private citizens (rather than all owned by the government). That isn't even analogous to a religion.
Incidentally, betrayal and greed are just as much the hallmarks of communism, which you would know if you studied your history. Adopting an arrangement where the means of production are (effectively) owned by the government doesn't eliminate greed and betrayal from human nature. It in fact makes things worse, since the organizational authorities have overwhelmingly more power than they do in a capitalistic system.
Hate to say it, but you are the reason for all this BS. Why the heck anyone would ever, EVER, do something for free is beyond my understanding.
One advice, stop working for free, and start ask for MONEY, plenty of them, then you will have my respect, and you will have your BWM, or whatever makes you happy.
Place blame where blame is due, please. The open source movement is the fault of Richard Matthew Stallman, communist traitor. Without RMS, Google and Facebook and Amazon and all the other giant tech corporations wouldn't have free open source Linux. They would have to pay for software, and expenses would cut into their immense profits.
Because of the work of communist traitor Richard Matthew Stallman, software is worth nothing, coders are worth less than nothing, and if you try to ask for money, you will not get paid.
See subject: Your MASSIVE FAIL in this life is you're nothing more than a chattering little do-nothing "ne'er-do-well" online & you know it...
* Is that the best your "phantasyland FAKE NAME" (for your fake lie of a so-called 'life') can manage?
When a FAKE NAME do nothing like YOU does better than I have? Then talk (you're all talk & no action)...
You can't help you're an immature little BUTTHURT no-mind, lol! I blew you away in TONS OF PLACES and easily dust your no-mind bullshit blatherings.
APK
P.S.=> The TRUE PRICE of your UNIDENTIFIABLE FAKE NAME do-nothing selves like you that I can ALWAYS CASH IN ON (lol) is that I can use FACT/TRUTH on them to SHATTER their all TOO fragile delusional egos that they actually know A DAMN THING in computing, lol... apk
The wealthy don't earn their money. They steal it.
This talk reminds me... I remember back in nineteen and nighty six. Just a young buck out of highs cool. Had 2 real good opportunities; college or wire jockey $$. Chose College, ended up with a degree, hired to programming databases and "knowledge bases", wiring out call centers, negotiating salaries with startups, quitting one job for another on "principle", awesome. Why did I get into this? Couldn't tell ya, other than it was the hot thing at the right time. 20 years later; ef this, get a real job, serve your fellow man..locally.. Now I brew beer, small scale, everyone loves my work product. Significantly less money, but enough, and cool factor. Why didn't I think of this before? As a successful quitter I salute you! Cheers!
Agreed. Having any job used to be respected but gradually some sort of expectation inflation crept in.... maybe it's the push to get more people into further education ? Or the shallow materialism that permeates our culture?
I have bled brakes, changed oil, changed head gaskets, moved a lawn, planted and picked strawberries, raspberries, bunch of other fruits and veggies, prepared jams, marmalade and compotes. Made (and still make) my own cheese, yogurt, soap.
I know exactly the time and effort involved in these jobs - it is practically none. Why do you expect me to respect someone who takes 3 times as much time as needed, who does subpar job that I later have to redo? I don't complain because if the management doesn't see a problem with the quality of the work of their staff, that means management is incompetent and nothing good will come of it. I've found through trial and error good mechanics that let me inspect their work before they hand the keys back to me, or let me spend time with them in the shop. And surprisingly they charge much less that the other guys who don't know what they are doing.
This thread reminds me why I'm paid $150 an hour with my weak technical skills (but admittedly strong data knowledge). Add to that my productivity isn't even especially high.
It's all about the likeability, just being friendly and helpful. The client is happy and I actively take part in creating a nice working environment.
In my experience personality is 95%, someone here needs to work on that.
Being "likeable" (brown nosing the bosses) with little skill gets you high pay for easy work.
Having actual skill at producing things gets you kicked in the face then shat upon while you're down.
And you wonder why there is anger and unrest among the producer class?
This is called a "straw fire". Impressive, but only for a short time and afterwards you just have ashes. The stupid fall for it every time though.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Today is my last day at my current job. Starting monday a new one, with 10% more salary, 9 to 5 hours instead of 9 to 6, and 4 stop commute instead of 17 on the underground. Shop around for jobs every couple of years, it can be very profitable and improve you life greatly.
The economy is actually quite strong. And it was strong for the past 6 years.
However policy is still treating it like it is in a recession and not investing into safety nets for when it drops again.
Also we are starting trade wars for no real good reason. Which the countries are responding in a more targeted attack that may not hurt the entire economy as much but the states that unwisely voted for trump.
Any country cannot fight off the entire US economy, but they can hit particular states rather hard.
They know targeting the Tech sector will mostly effect people who mostly voted for Clinton. But agriculture, Automotive... that will get the area which would hurt the idiot who started the trade war in the first place.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
And very few people would be able to afford to have their own UNIX/Windows workstation .We would still be paying $4000 for a C++ compiler, another $2000 for manuals and $100 if we wanted a cable to connect to a printer.
Part of the problem is that as a society we are getting to the stage where this so-called "real work" is being replaced by robots, and fast. So instead we should improve our education system so that people who would eventually end up mowing the lawn have a chance at doing something less menial.
"What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson
William S Sessions
What does all that quitting do to your retirement fund?
The hardest workers in America typically get paid the least, and that is not right.
Pay isn't proportional to how hard a person worked, but how productive they were. You can dig a ditch with your bare hands and work harder. The other guy used a shovel and actually did more work.
It's the result (productivity) of work that has value, not the process (how hard).
You can make an argument that while productivity has increased, the profits are not being distributed equally though.
Having income growth levels of 3.25% vs 2.5% (30% more) while the rich double and triple their income doesn't solve the problem.
And right now, this comes from uncertainty in Europe, not anything Trump has done.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Losing basic refining and forging capacity is the reason for the trade war. Specifically, its a consequence of a Chinese trade war that our banker class allowed to happen.
This adage is usually stated as: "Behind every great fortune is a great crime".
Thanks for insulting my appearance, sight unseen. I don't know why I bother to bathe every day and wear clean clothes. Thanks for insulting my skills too. I don't know why I bother to continue work on unpaid personal coding projects to keep my skills up.
I'm always irrationally optimistic during interviews. It's irrational to assume any interview will be different from every other interview. After all, every employed person is SHIT LIKE YOU, and SHIT LIKE YOU is never hiring.
The absolute worst part of being an open source coder is I'm not compensated when undeserving SHIT LIKE YOU take my hard work and use it for your own benefit.
Have you considered that I'm bitter because of SHIT LIKE YOU who are constantly lying about the existence of jobs that don't exist?
Now how about you go fuck yourself and die in a fire?
If you come across in interviews even half as bad as you do here it's no wonder no one would hire you. If your skills are so shit hot work for yourself. Flood the appstore with useless crap and rake it in that way.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
You both have a point. Unskilled "people persons" get promoted while the skilled people are forced to clean up in their wake. Strait up Dilbert shit.
So as the supply of workers went down the price to attract workers went up...so strange. It's as if people have been saying this for years and a glut of union supporters kept trying to deny it.
As it turns out, yes...unions are pointless. You want better paying jobs, you need more job openings.
Upper income bracket has also grown. Over a 10 year period, 80% of those who left the middle income went into upper income. There's a fundamental issue that in the long run only a few will create and we'll asymptotically approach 100% unemployment. Even with now with "3%" unemployment, an increasing number of economists are claiming a substantial fraction of jobs are bullshit jobs with no or negative value for the purpose of having a job. Creating jobs for the sake of jobs is a horrible reason. Basic income.
Jesus man, I hope you don't actually believe this.
Are lottery winners thieves? How about your golden god Elon Musk? Even most garbage collectors...
If you make more than 35,000USD per year, you are in the top 1% globally. This makes you... wealthy, at least in the eyes of 99% of the world.
What you are suffering from is envy, not theft, and a shocking lack of perspective.
but my experience is that workers were been mis-treated over the last decade or two. Benefits were cut and guarantee pension programs terminated. Overall management became vicious as if there goal was to get rid of staff.
Unemployment is not down, more people have simply dropped off the tracking. If people give up and become homeless they are no longer counted on the u6, let alone the u2 unemployment index. Every president tells the same lies, and the media lets them all get away with it. I don't fully understand why, but I presume it has to do with the difficulty of explaining unemployment statistics to the public. The underemployed, those going further and further into debt and/or skipping medical care which causes eventual repercussions for both themselves and everyone else, are also not counted. And the unemployment rate also does not account for people having to work multiple jobs and unreasonably long hours to stay off the street, who cannot subsequently have any kind of life.
Repeating lies makes you a useful idiot (see Wikipedia) at best. Or maybe it just makes you a liar.
Lower taxes is also a lie, except for the rich. The average tax savings was minuscule.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I've been doing computing things for decades. After about 10 yrs, the best way to get a great job is through human networking. I haven't filled out any online application ever, at least nothing more than an email-me contact thing.
My last 3 jobs happened because someone heard me speaking and asked if I wanted a job. Another offer came while I was in a training class and the CIO for the company hosting the location yelled across the room (about 30 people) asking if I wanted a job. I'd known him about 10 yrs earlier, but we hadn't talked all that time.
If you have less than 10 yrs experience, I haven't any advice, except as someone who hired software developers for my team.
* Be yourself. Slight assholes are fine. Total assholes are not. Show a little personality, but not too much. I'd always ask about favorite movies to get someone talking. It didn't matter if they liked any or not.
* Fitting into the corporate culture is MORE important than 100% technical skills.
* If you don't know an answer, say that. Don't bluff. Offer to explain how you'd get the answer. If they don't ask anything more, when you have time, look up the answer and understand it well enough to convey it in a follow up call. That got me multiple job offers alone.
* Being of service to the boss, company, country, world is my goal. I try to make that come across both when interviewing and being interviewed.
* I show passion for working and understanding that some days work will suck.
* I want to like my coworkers and want each of us to have great lives. Whole lives, not just at work.
But what do I really know? Not much. 1 datapoint isn't really useful. Everyone has to make their own way in the world. Your way is probably better than mine.
When I put my resume up on Indeed a month or so ago, I got multiple contacts within 24 hours, including cold calls from recruiters who somehow had my telephone number.
That is great but that sort of response isn't the norm. In my line of work (manufacturing operations) such a vigorous response would be almost unheard of no matter how attractive your resume. I think this speaks more to industry and company culture than anything else but just posting your resume will rarely land you interviews that easily in my industry. Your mileage may vary of course. In my wife's line of work she gets calls out of the blue all the time because there simply aren't a lot of people who do what she does.
But as soon as you say "online submission" all is lost. I've never known anyone who got a call back from submitting their resume through a company web site. Perhaps it has happened somewhere in the world, but it must be quite rare.
There is a reason for that. It's because the HR folks get absolute bombarded with resumes so the odds you you actually getting a response unless you are EXACTLY what they are looking for is a good approximation of zero if the company has any size to it at all. Big companies are doing keyword searches and throwing out 99% of the resumes they actually do read. Chances are you'll get at most 30-60 seconds of consideration if you are lucky and the odds of a response are ridiculously low. Those systems are set up to weed out resumes and ward off lawsuits than they are to actually setting up interviews. You are quite right that getting a response that way will be quite unusual.
If your resume isn't attractive enough that recruiters reach out to you, that sucks.
The vast majority of people fall into that category.
At least get some help prettying up your resume, and you may need to consider moving to where your job is hot.
Sometimes it doesn't matter how "pretty" your resume is. And people often cannot move for a variety of good reasons.
This is the sentiment of a typical bigot. A bigot is someone who takes a whole category of people as a blanket statement and judges them unworthy.
There are some wealthy people who fall squarely into your category, there are some who very much earned every penny they have honestly and there is a whole range in between like. Inherited some wealth then used it. Do you really think every singer songwriter out there who becomes a mega star is a thief?
What about the person who wins the lottery then invest wisely, did they steal anything?
I have know both poor people who were bigoted against the wealthy and wealthy bigoted against poor, but honestly there are a lot of good people who fit both categories. This type of 'class warfare' is nothing but counter productive.
A better way to approach wealth discrepancy is to look for laws that 'even the playing field' for those who are underprivileged.
How about instead of a typical minimum wage, there is a law that requires some kind of profit , ( and risk ) sharing with employees.
Not that I actually advantage this specifically , but consider some of the interesting effects it would have if we simply outlawed paying people a wage and instead required each persons compensation to be tied to the previous quarters profits / income of the company. I'm not saying that is a real solution, but with some creative work, there is a real place for a win / win for both labor and owners in an arrangement like that. Labor should earn higher income, and feel more invested, owners get to share the risk because if sales tank they aren't still stuck with a labor bill. Of coarse there would have to be a lot more too it then that, like something that involved some decision making mechanism, but there are better ways to solve the problem then scream.
The rich are thieves and the poor are lazy welfare leaches.
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
We need a change that restores respect to real work. The hardest workers in America typically get paid the least, and that is not right. The growth in the service industry only exacerbates the problem.
How do you suggest we accomplish that? Do you look for the most expensive oil change place, the most expensive grocery store, the most expensive child care?
People don't respect those mowing the grass or changing their oil when they have never, even in their childhood, gotten off of their fat asses and mowed their own grass or changed their own oil.
So you are proposing .... mandatory lawn mowing in schools?
Or just that we get off your lawn?
You really need to look a bit beyond just the pay because, if you don't, you'll be job hopping again soon enough.
How long has the company been operating ?
Are they established and stable, or a startup ?
How much turnover does the company have ? Why ?
Benefits ? Insurance ? Retirement ?
Does it require travel ?
What's the cost of living where the company wants you to move ?
Telecommute a possibility ?
Starting at bottom seniority means getting stuck with hours you hate ?
How much personal / vacation / sick time they offer ?
How many hours per week do they require ?
Personally, some of the items on the above list are MORE important to me than the pay is.
Do you really think every singer songwriter out there who becomes a mega star is a thief?
Pretty much, for the last 15 years at least.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
So you are proposing .... mandatory lawn mowing in schools?
Seems to be working very well for schools in Japan. Most of them have no janitors, as students are the ones performing that work.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
Terribly sorry, old chap, but I do believe you are deranged. SOME wealthy steal their money - and some poor steal their money. Most folks, wealthy or not, DO earn it.
The taxes apply to this year 2018, not the returns everyone filed in April for 2017. Unless you file quarterlies, you probably haven't noticed a damn thing related to the tax cuts yet, and won't until April 2019. You may have noticed part of it in the withholding being withdrawn on your pay stub however. Also the individual mandate being dropped on average will save low income people who can't afford health insurance about $600-1000 a year in the shared responsibility penalty being gone.
Considering the tax liability for people at low incomes is around 3000-5000, just the mandate alone being gone is anywhere from 1/3 to 1/5 saving on their overall tax liability for the whole year.
So *was* as in past tense isn't really possible, since they affect only the current fiscal year, not retroactively the year before. But i understand how you could make this mistake, only reading headlines can do that.
You've forgotten the people of modest means who live below their means and invest their money wisely over 30 years. But wait, that goes against instant gratification so these people who denied themselves a bunch of things must have their wealth stolen, sorry, I mean they must 'share ' it.
I agree with some of this. BUT, let's use an example. You live in Omaha. You want yardwork done. Do you: Hire a legal citizen and pay $35/hour or, Hire an illegal alien and pay $10/hour. It's easy to say 'corporations should pay higher wages!' but when faced with an immediate, individual choice, most people won't make choices that cost them more money.
Considering the tax liability for people at low incomes is around 3000-5000, just the mandate alone being gone is anywhere from 1/3 to 1/5 saving on their overall tax liability for the whole year.
Selling out the future, fantastic. These people are just not going to have health care, and then we can all pay for it. Except, since we're not getting national health, we'll all overpay for it.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
It's pretty much just millennials, and it is going to catch up to them eventually. No one is going to want to hire a serial quitter in any meaningful capacity, and those communities are smaller than one might think, word spreads. Most of the rest of us are quite content, thanks, and no, we aren't going to vote to subsidize their laziness/incompetence/lack of fortitude.
Europeans don't even reproduce enough to maintain replacement levels. What does that say about your quality of life?
My Dad has 8 grandchildren, yours is looking at the end of his genetic line. Which is probably a good thing since Europeans have caused so much suffering through 2 world wars, global slave trade and colonialism.
... the ones who know stuff have the upper hand. The ones simply juggling money are very close to being replaced by robots. Closer than the cleaning lady and the burger flipper actually.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
How about instead of a typical minimum wage, there is a law that requires some kind of profit , ( and risk ) sharing with employees.
You don't think employees are shouldering any risk in our current system?
You realize every employee is basically giving the company a loan every day. The company pays it back afew weeks later.
Our current tax and company structures take no account of the value labor imparts, they only value capital.
Cheap storage VM.
Explain to me how JK Rowling stole her money. Yeah, that's what I thought. Typical asshole.. My lack of success is someone else's fault. They musta done something bad! whaaaaa
My CEO makes 8 figures. Corporate profits were 10 figures. That seems excessive to me. Wealth and income inequality at the levels we have may be just, I don't know, but they cause problems socially. I do know that.
This is a projection of your own consumerist values, nothing more.
> Creating jobs for the sake of jobs is a horrible reason. Basic income.
Let me complete that last sentence: "Basic income ... can never work."
Dont push for a doomsday policy that can only end in disaster.
Jobs will take care of themselves. Neo luddism is lame, uneducated, and dangerous.
Unemployment has been moving down on the same glide rate starting in 2010 under Obama.
Unfortunately for Trump we're at the bottom and there is no where for the unemployment rate to go except back up, and he'll get blamed for it.
We lost refining and forging capacity because the companies decided not to keep up and improve. Other countries had made a competitive product and these companies just relied on Made in the USA as their only selling point.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Are they hiring where you work? That's roughly four times what I make with good technical skills and bonuses for exceptional contribution. Location matters, though, as it might be in a high cost location.
Those are 2 separate issues there, King_TJ.
Hey, the lifestyle stuff is certainly real enough, but this isn't exactly breaking news, is it? I could quote you stories from the 1970's saying this exact thing.
Now paying for healthcare, that is something that the US is an outlier on. Most developed countries chose single payer (with lots of detail differences) and they get better health outcomes for the money. On a personal level though, sickness doesn't have to bankrupt you.
Thus your last line is provably false. Yes your taxes go up. However your employer's healthcare costs (and costs in general) go down. The "net net" being, single payer is cheaper. Everywhere. Not my opinion, but a statistical fact backed up by endless research and studies. You'd actually have to screw up unbelievably, as a program implementation, to have it turn out differently. Oh, and the health outcomes are better too.
Now, there are some losers with single payer. Doctors make less on average, and I'll bet the rockstar Doctors make significantly less. The PharmaBros (Martin Shkreli comes to mind, odiously) make less. Pharmaceutical companies certainly make less. Some, ah, ambitious healthcare executives and their minders make less.
No losses there worth losing sleep over.
...I think the term "earn" needs to be more clearly defined in this type of discussion....
Well, she was on the government dole when she wrote her first book. So, obviously, she stole it from the government.
It doesn't need to be anything that complicated. Just pull up a chart showing increases in wages and increases in productivity from, say, 1950 to now. They used to track rather closely. They became completely decoupled in the late 1970s.
We are producing far more while being paid the same as the 1970s. That's not how it's supposed to work.
I really don't like farting smoke.
All things considered, it's still an employers' economy.
They set the wages, and there are still an excess of potential employees for each job. When the actual demand for employees exceeds the available pool of personnel, only then will you see a truly dynamic increase in wages and employer effort in employee retention.
Until then, it's smoke and mirrors.
It's starting to hurt too. I live in a red state, primarily manufacturing and agriculture, and the factories are laying off in droves. Considering factories employ ~60% of my entire county, it's a good bet that the squeeze will get tighter as the trade war progresses. And naturally, Trump supporters will be the hardest hit.
Lame Plebian,,
Trump is the King of Quitters..
also,
While your pulling your head out msmash can u provide a NONPAYWALLED Link, or would that cause you a mental meltdown???
If that legal citizen is bonded and insured, you bet I'll pay the extra (assuming they do a good job and are productive with their time.)
Chances are, that's not the choice I'd be faced with, though. Most people would deal with companies having more than one employee, and the customer would have no knowledge of the immigration status of those employees.
Here's a nice chart explaining how income inequality was both solved and created. In the 20's/30's we had enormous income inequality -- even worse than today -- but workers organized, fought, died and voted together for their rights. As a results, union membership expands in the 40's,50's and income inequality goes down. Reagan -- who's first election win was as president of a labor union ironically -- dismantled unions and demonized them. Membership goes down, inequality goes up.
None of this, of course, excludes the ability for their to be bad unions or union leaders any more than there are bad/corrupt judges in any judiciary. But instead, that just as a good judiciary is important for a functioning country, so is a good union system for income inequality. Which should make sense, as income inequality was literally the problem unions were created to solve.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
Riiiight. You think employees are going to be okay with risk sharing? I have no doubt they'd all be for profit sharing but you are high if you think they'd be okay with having to share in the bad times.
Besides, the whole argument is ludicrous. I've dumped a hundred thousand dollars and change into my business, to get it to a profitable level. Now, after taking all of that risk, you want me to share the profits? I, alone, did all of the work in the beginning. There was nobody who helped for free. Had the company failed, I would have been the guy who lost all of his money.. Nobody else would have taken a hit.
I don't think I'm an unfair or greedy person. Quite the opposite. But after shouldering all that extremely hard physical and mental work, there is no fucking way I would share anything. I'll pay a good wage, but that's it.
Before you even claim this only would apply to large corporations, don't forget they employ less than 20% of the population (in the United States). Small business employs 80% of the workforce.
Your blatant attempt at communism is disgusting.
Why do you care how productive they are with their time? Are you some sort of control freak? Are you paying $30 to have your lawn trimmed, or are you paying to watch someone "look busy"?
If I pay someone $30 to take care of my lawn, I really don't give a rip whether they take a set of hand clippers and crawl around the entire lawn all afternoon, whether they take one 10-minute pass with a riding mower and a second 10-minute pass with a weed-wacker, or whether they have a buddy trim the edges while they run a mower over the main part of the lawn. FFS, if you want to micromanage that much, do it yourself!
You're not part of the producer class! You're just a whiner!
Flush this guy's advice if you value your actual craft. This dude values kissing ass, meeting metrics, and all the other bullshit that requires "fitting into the corporate culture." Working for this guy would most defintely require that you "take one for the team" or as the rest of us know, getting fucked. I do not "get fucked" by the companies I work for. I do not "fit in" anywhere and I AM a "total asshole". I get shit done. I got numbers to prove it, I have poducts to prove it. Most importantly, I have the bank account to prove it.
Being the direct opposite of every thing enumerated on his list has cost me zero dollars. Why? Because the only calculation that a company gives a damn about is do you bring in more money than you cost. If you do, you can and I have directly told the CEO to fuck right off, I'm making money- in those EXACT words. He fucked right off so we could make more money. When you get a boss who actually doesn't know his job, they get all cocky and just want to throw their ego around. My ego is bigger. I do not work for a company, a company works to make me money. If you want your ego to win, then I walk. Don't need your job because I'll have a dozen offers within an hour of making myself available. In about a month, your boss will be calling me to come back. Every job I left has, and every job got refused. I don't burn bridges, I nuke them. In fact, because I am a total asshole, I have almost always went to their direct competitor and I have always gotten a raise. Never signed an NDA either so I've never been sued over it. Quit being a total nerd and get some damned self confidence and worth.
Also DO NOT be all around buddies with your coworkers. They will fuck you if they have to and you'll get fired for shit that was "off the clock". We get a couple stories a week on this site about it. I'll be nice to you and even quite enjoyable to be around AS LONG AS YOU LEAVE ME ALONE with all the corporate bullshit. I'm not taking your sensitivity training or your idle pages of threats called "Code of Conduct" training. I do not want to fuck you, go to the bar, or play that godawful golf you like so much. I'll be friendly, but I don't want to be your friend.
When you show others you aren't scared to lose your job, YOU get to be the boss. Don't be scared either, if you're good at what you do which makes the company money, you will ALWAYS get a raise when you job hop. I say always, as if you want to get a raise. You can stop being a programmer and just start digging a ditch if you want. Depending on market desperation and what megacorp you just left, it might be a raise too :D
People who aren't very good at thier job have to devolve into the ass kissing bullshit that our MBA Listmaker AC above has to. You can keep that cube steak, I'm after that prime rib, son!
People who say that clearly have never had money.
But you tell yourself whatever it takes to make yourself do another lap on the hamster wheel because someone has to run it.
But for the record phantomtwoandonehalf* STILL doesn't advocate universal healthcare. Don't let his apparent agreement fool you, Peter.
*cause you're half the poster you used to be
So you're being the very cheapass you're pissing on the insurance shoppers for being. I bet you vote conservative every time.
I will need to report you to the RNC authorities however because you want us to have sympathy for an old satan loving whore. Three kids? Shouldn'tve been fucking. Divorced? Shoulda let the man of the house do whatever whenever including beating her ass. Not making enough money? Stop being lazy. Already got 3 jobs? You need 7. Grab those bootstraps and pull ya lazy motherfucker!
Hypocrites gonna hype.
That post didn't help one fucking bit. The answer is not a simple NO. The answer depends on if you'll make a profit by changing jobs. All of that depends on a bunch of shit including where the job is, where you are, how much shit you own, and a bunch of other mundane garbage.
For example, if I am making $75k in America, and I get a $95k offer from Russia where you are, if it costs more than 20k to move there, then it isn't worth it. This analogy isn't working out the way I wanted, I'm just trying to call you a russian piece of shit.
We tried that here in the 1700 & 1800s. It didn't work. You did actually go to the horse doctor sometimes. Sometimes you got some leeches, or an ear nail, or a fucking bluejay to peck out the blood.
The only thing that FREE MARKET means is free money for those running the market.
Don't look at us as being the greedy bastards when you're the one taking all those "bonuses" home.
He cares because he's conservative. If you aren't being productive, you could have charged less in his mind. But don't think for a second he wouldn't hire the illegal AND BITCH ABOUT IT THE WHOLE TIME. That's why he put the "If they're bonded" caveat so he could just say he couldn't find a bonded gardener.
Well I don't know about that unmedicated asspie, but I have a a pretty similar attitude. I get all the jobs I want. I simply lie to you to get around whatever arbitrary bullshit you've made up and then go on to dazzle the engineers who do the actual hiring. You HR drones are scum. Once I'm in, I do what I want because I make the company LOTS of money. THAT is what they care about. They don't care that I'm a dbag. I cuss em like a dog, they don't care. I actually told one of my CEOs to "fuck off, I'm making money" and you know what that rich old bastard did? HE FUCKED RIGHT OFF AND WE MADE MORE MONEY. I continued working there for 4 more years. I don't work for you, you work for me. I've never been unemployed unless I wanted to be.
Your post was very clear, as an HR manager all you care about is not getting sued.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
Casteism
That's irrelevant. Seriously ... Lots of things "work" in other countries, despite oppressive or sub-optimal systems of central governance there.
I can go to many Communist / Socialist nations and see that they have perfectly serviceable road systems in place. I can see that even dictatorships in corrupt nations might have some sort of public school system established for people.
The point here is, the USA has the *only* attempt at running a Democratic Republic, which rejects the idea that government operates and funds anything beyond the basics outlined in our Constitution. An increasingly number of people seem to just want to throw their hands in the air over our challenges and problems, and decide we should just copy the European countries, embracing socialism and tossing our existing system out. They're rambling on about free college educations for everybody and free healthcare for all, etc.
You know? We *do* have government provided healthcare for certain situations, such as our war veterans. Ask anyone how great the care is at the VA hospitals though. Yeah, kind of pathetic. But hey, our veterans can say they get free healthcare and medications!
I believe the free market and practicing Capitalism actually works pretty well. It's never been "perfect", but nothing ever will be, because human nature. It's funny how with medical care and production of medications though, it's this ONE area where none of that has a chance of working properly so only government can make it right? I think we just need to do a little more "out of the box" thinking about how to manage healthcare within the existing structure. Single-payer healthcare/Socialized medicine won't encourage any doctors to excel at what they do. It'll drive many of the good ones out of the field. It'll ensure everyone gets SOME kind of care, but it's probably not going to be that great. We have a whole civilization brought up on the idea that you earn money based on the quality of the work you do ... not that you get a fixed pay rate, decided by government, for as long as you promise to fill an opening they've got.
Wow, you really have drank a lot of the right wing cool aid, havenâ(TM)t you. There really isnâ(TM)t any point discussing this further.
If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
I would too. E.g.: I need some tree work done. I pay through the nose for tree guys who .. have workmans comp. (The ones without are also legal as I know they were born in the US but I won't take the risk of getting sued by a workman who injures himself on my property.
Don't you folks ever hire anyone? Typically one pays by the hour for a tradesman unless he or she (mostly he) quotes you a "for the job" price. Even so if they f--- off they'll come back to you and say 'it took me longer than I thought it was going to, so here's the bill for the extra."
First off, I said thought experiment, which by definition means I don't think it is entirely realistic. 2nd isn't it basically a more transparent way of doing what everyone already does? Isn't any wage basically a small percentage of the company profit? .001% or so? The difference being risk is shared based on either loss of employment or salary reduction? This has the advantage of ,depending on implementation, disentangle a lot of benefit problems, because you could expect all employees to cover thier own insurance and workman'so comp etc. Or pay a fee to a third party processor to handle thoseverything payroll and tax issues.
1) keeping salaries in a fixed and transparent relationship to profits
2) providing a greater sense of risk / reward as a motivation for employees.
3) might
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
I missed the "though experiment part". I apologize.
I can admit when I've been an ass. :)
Let me add this: Wealth isn't a pie that needs to be distributed evenly. Wealth is created constantly. That is to say, the pie keeps getting bigger. Easiest example is.. go dig up some gold.. You're now richer than you were 5 mins ago, but you took zero money from anyone else.. Nobody is poorer because you are richer... In a.. hrm... fair system (no monopolies, no fraud, etc) this will keep the system chugging along..
I just read an article today that said the number people living in abject poverty has decreased by about 80% in the last 200 years.. yet the rich are richer.. But.. the poor are richer.. Everyone is richer... It can and does work like that..