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All-time Heat Records Are Being Set All Over the World (washingtonpost.com)

As the U.K. begins a two-week heat wave, one pedestrian apparently found his leg sinking into tarmac, which had melted, requiring a call to emergency rescue services.

"All-time heat records have been set all over the world during the past week," reports the Washington Post, in an article titled "Red-Hot Planet," which they've updated throughout the week with new all-time heat records. From the normally mild summer climes of Ireland, Scotland and Canada to the scorching Middle East to Southern California, numerous locations in the Northern Hemisphere have witnessed their hottest weather ever recorded over the past week.... The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation reports the heat is to blame for at least 54 deaths in southern Quebec, mostly in and near Montreal, which endured record high temperatures. In Northern Siberia, along the coast of the Arctic Ocean -- where weather observations are scarce -- model analyses showed temperatures soaring 40 degrees above normal on July 5, to over 90 degrees...

On Thursday, Africa likely witnessed its hottest temperature ever reliably measured. Ouargla, Algeria soared to 124.3 degrees (51.3 Celsius). If verified, it would surpass Africa's previous highest reliable temperature measurement of 123.3 degrees (50.7 Celsius) set July 13, 1961, in Morocco. No single record, in isolation, can be attributed to global warming. But collectively, these heat records are consistent with the kind of extremes we expect to see increase in a warming world.

Nasdaq Inc. even warned customers that high humidity in New Jersey was slowing the radio transmissions needed for high-speed trading, according to an article shared by Slashdot reader narcoossee. And Southern California has also experienced record-setting temperatures "well above 110 degrees across the region," sparking brush fires that burned homes in two counties.

Last July several U.S. cities experienced their hottest month ever, including Reno, Salt Lake City, and Miami. And Death Valley, California maintained an average temperature of 107.4 degrees for an entire month, the hottest month ever recorded on earth. "The temperature didn't fall below 89 degrees at any point in the month of July at Death Valley," reports the Washington Post, adding "On three nights, the 'low' temperature was 102-103 degrees."

And last month the Middle East city Quriyat (in Oman) endured more than two full days in which the temperature never dropped below 108.7 degrees.

367 comments

  1. Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Accepted dogma says this cannot be climate change. Or if it is, it cannot be human made. Rationality is irrelevant.

    Well, fuckers, it is going to kill you or at least your children just the same, no matter how much you deny it.

    1. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Citations needed.

      Mostly because that is the biggest load of horse dollop anyone has ever said! “Proper climate” my left foot. Go check out the second law of thermodynamics...

    2. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Research can't show us what the proper climate should be.

      Everything will always be in balance.

      You're kinda retarded, huh.
       

      Research cannot even predict next day's weather.

      Even if it will become 2 times hotter, the planet will cool down again...

      You must be a fortune teller or something.

    3. Re: Cannot be climate change by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Research has shown that earth's climate isn't stable.

      Correct. But also that human populations react quite drastically to changes, mostly due to whether our food can still grow.

      Research can't show us what the proper climate should be.

      Actually, it can. Or rather, it can show us what climate we as humans consider optimal.

      Research cannot show us how much co2 and other gases affect the climate

      Again, we can. We have records of CO2 levels through the ages and we also know what temperatures occurred in those times.

      Research cannot even predict next day's weather.

      Please, you don't have to be so blatant in your ignorance of the difference between climate and weather, we already pretty much assumed that much.

      Earth is a sandbox. Everything will always be in balance. If you have a long period of high temps you'll have a period with low temps.

      Now that's a great one. What makes you think that there is anything remotely resembling balance? Furthermore, yes, there have been periods when it was warmer on this planet. Unfortunately for us, those were periods when no humans had to survive on the planet.

      Sometimes you get ice ages sometimes you get scorching periods with huge fauna and flora.

      Again, I have no idea why you think the climate has to remain in some sort of bracket between X and Y, but you might want to ponder that during the times when it was actually warmer than today were no times when humans wanted to survive on this planet.

      Oil, plastic, e.t.c. belong in the same bucket, in several thousands of years they will becone sone other material.

      In several million years. Several thousand years is too short a time span to have any relevant effect on it. And oil, plastic etc. are not the problem. Actually, the very last thing you want is to burn that plastic and turn it into a much bigger problem.

      The concern of many is whether we kill ourselves faster or not.

      We probably will. When places become uninhabitable, we'll have quite a few people trying to survive on our hands. And, well, if my choice is only to kill you for your spot or die trying because I'll be dead anyway if I don't try...

      Even if it will become 2 times hotter, the planet will cool down again, eventually and dinosaurs might come back again.

      Again, I have no idea why you think that the planet must cool down again eventually, a runaway greenhouse effect is absolutely possible, though we'd probably have to really force it, but ... you might well be right. Humans won't survive in much hotter climate, but there is absolutely no reason that other lifeforms cannot.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Research can't show us what the proper climate should be.

      Actually it can. The problem is funding, time, and the tools needed to do it. All of which can be rectified if desired.

      Research cannot even predict next day's weather.

      It gets pretty damn close for most places. The issue once again is the same as it was for your last statement. It's not down to the second accuracy yet, but it can be.

      Earth is a sandbox. Everything will always be in balance.

      AHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh, you're serious? That's.... misguided at best. Go look at Chernobyl, that's hardly in balance. See also the massive hole in the ozone layer we made with Chlorofluorocarbons. Or the massive amount of gas and oil leaking out into the oceans as sunken ships rust away, killing and destroying the local ecosystem there. Or the acid rains created by heavy industrial pollutants. Humans very much affect their environments in ways that are harmful. Not only to the environment itself, but also us. Not being mindful of that especially over large time scales, is a good way to set ourselves up for failure in the future.

      Even if it will become 2 times hotter, the planet will cool down again, eventually and dinosaurs might come back again.

      The average earth temperature at that point would be 118.0 Fahrenheit (47.7778 Celsius) For the record, you'll probably die around 111.2 Fahrenheit (44 Celsius). That would make going outside at all a fatal event. Never mind the cost to cool off an indoor location to a safe level. Or the extinction of entire ecosystems that would be caused by it. That's not a concept to just brush off casually as unimportant.

      The concern of many is whether we kill ourselves faster or not.

      Which is why you and others should pay more attention. You might learn something from that research that can help all of us.

    5. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 0

      and even if we could, why would we want to. not heard one complaint that the uk is having a real summer.

    6. Re:Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh please. If a place has had reliable weather measuring equipment for just over eighty years and it took almost sixty years to hit a new high, that's evidence of cooling. That's basic statistics.

    7. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reality is that it's solar energy output variations blah blah blah.....

      https://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming-intermediate.htm

    8. Re: Cannot be climate change by Shikaku · · Score: 2

      https://public.wmo.int/en/medi...

      The last 3 years are the hottest ever recorded. Citations by many weather stations around the world, from NASA, NWS USA, NWS UK, and the Japanese Meteorological Agency.

      The water is boiling sir, and you can't jump out because that would mean leaving earth.

    9. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is either world class trolling or the sign of someone demented from exposure to right-wing politics.

      There is zero debate among climate scientists on this topic. The biosphere is warming and the primary cause is human-emitted greenhouse gases. It's not solar fluctuations or cosmic rays or some sort of weather cycles. It's CO2 and methane. It's a very basic mechanism we've know about for well over 100 years.

      You can try to find comforting fairy tales that say the situation isn't as bad as the scientists say (possibly because you don't like the political implications of the only rapid, worldwide solutions that have a prayer of fixing this mess), but that won't change reality.

    10. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 1

      wish i hadn't commented so i could mod you up. exactly this. i forgot how much damage being a little less hyperbolic and a little more honest can do to your karma talking climate change on the tinterweb. -1 disagree because the lady on the radio said different everywhere you look.

    11. Re: Cannot be climate change by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Funny

      So we should invest into solar energy now. Because we can get more solar energy per day because of the increase solar output.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    12. Re: Cannot be climate change by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      There is no debate that it is man made. There is a lot of debate on the rate it is changing, what effects it will cause and forecast.

      Climate scientists are not just sitting in a grant funded hotel. Awaiting the biggest I Told you so in History.
      They are trying hard to figure out what the actual rate will be, how will it effect different areas and practices to help save the planet.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    13. Re:Cannot be climate change by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      It's not "accepted" dogma since only a minority of people think that way. They may be loud and obnoxious people but they aren't in the majority around the world.

    14. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >cant imagine why scientists chasing climate change funding would make a site like that.

      Oh yes, it's a global conspiracy of opinion designed to generate funding, because that's the logical conclusion. /s Apparently GW denial is the new paranoia toy.

    15. Re: Cannot be climate change by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      zero debate among climate scientists

      Zero debate among flat earth scientists as well.

      One is an oxymoron. The other is not.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    16. Re: Cannot be climate change by mellon · · Score: 2

      How much money do you think there is in researching it? Who has more money: oil companies or environmentalists?

    17. Re:Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Who cares. I don't care about future generations, only me. Fixing climate change will be expensive and I don't want to pay for it.

    18. Re: Cannot be climate change by mellon · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately solar panels are less efficient when they're warmer. When we lived in Tucson, our panels generated more power in the shoulder seasons than in the dead of summer.

    19. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 0

      I'm debating so that is provable false. Why were sea levels 10 meters higher than they are now 10,000 years ago.

    20. Re: Cannot be climate change by mellon · · Score: 2

      Huh, you haven't paid much attention to weather forecasting recently, have you? It's downright spooky how good it is. It's not 100% accurate, sure, but if you bet against the weather report nowadays, you're much more likely to lose than win.

      As for research can't show us how much CO2 and other gases affect the climate, that's not at all true. The physics aren't that complicated. It's not the effects of CO2 that's in question—it's the capacity of the rest of the system to absorb the captured heat, and the amount of time it can do so before it stops being able to.

    21. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 1

      oil companies with no oil have lots of money, and they have been spending in on the likes of Hadley CRU.

    22. Re: Cannot be climate change by Opportunist · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So where is it, greenland or morroco?

      Optimal is neither. We can actually survive in a wider range of climates than most other higher animals, in part because we can adjust our surroundings to our needs. But you will notice that neither Greenland nor Morocco are very highly populated. Mostly because the area cannot feed many humans. You'll find far more people in areas that are more agreeable to our needs, and more importantly, our food's needs. Changing this is most likely not going to end well. Morocco and Greenland are certainly more prone to becoming uninhabitable, depending on what direction the climate changes, than, say, Europe or the US, but it's also likely that living in what's now fertile areas becomes a lot harder and these areas become a lot less able to sustain the amount of people living there, while living in areas that already barely allow you to survive will become uninhabitable altogether, like the Sahara desert (or Antarctica).

      however the measurement error is greater than the measurement. which real science would never accept as proof.

      The models are getting better. Research isn't really ever over, what you do is refine your model with more and more accurate data you get. Takes time, I know, and most likely time we don't have, but some things you just can't rush.

      that we have proof we cant predict the weather, climate we cant even prove we can measure? is that what you meant?

      What I mean is that minute details are harder to predict than the grand scheme. I can't tell you how many people get killed in the US tomorrow, but I can tell you with some certainty how many will get killed within a year. Likewise, just because I can't tell you whether it's going to be 30 or 32 degrees tomorrow doesn't mean I can't say with some credibility that the average temperature is changing.

      still here after a few billion years, what makes you so arrogant you think you can save it by not using a car. More likely Trump causes thermo nuclear war next week.

      I can't rely on that, fickle as he is he probably changes his mind, and what then?

      couple if ice ages and sea levels an average 10 meters higher than they are now barely a few thousand years ago.

      True, and the coast lines have been WAY higher than that in the more distant past. Then again, nobody had beach houses back then, either.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    23. Re: Cannot be climate change by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 5, Informative

      Since I believe in the usually futile approach of trying to counter lies with facts...

      We know very well that the current warming is caused by greenhouse gases and not by increased solar radiation. We know this because the two would produce different patterns of warming, and what we actually observe agrees in every detail with the predictions for greenhouse gases and disagrees with the predictions for increased solar radiation.

      Example: greenhouse gases should cause the lower atmosphere to get warmer (since they hold heat in) but the upper atmosphere to get cooler (because less heat escapes). Increased solar radiation should cause both the lower and the upper atmosphere to get warmer (because both would be getting more radiation). Sure enough, the upper atmosphere has been getting colder at exactly the same time the lower atmosphere has been getting warmer.

      With greenhouse gases you expect the poles to warm faster than the tropics and winter temperatures to increase more than summer temperatures. For increased solar radiation, you expect the opposite: the tropics should warm more than the poles and summer temperatures should go up faster than winter temperatures. Here again the evidence strongly agrees with greenhouse gasses being the cause and strongly disagrees with increased solar radiation being the cause.

      --
      "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
    24. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spending in what way? Spending to produce bs that argues with Hadley? Or spending to support Hadley?

    25. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 0

      ->The models are getting better.
      i disagree. I did my own research on estimating an average global temperature before during and after the hadley cru scandal. I got good numbers - great numbers in fact. but the error on that average was still plus or minus a couple of degrees for each year. and no amount of additional readings from the places they come from would change that (didn't collect any readings from the oceans 150 years ago for example).

      Plus the number of calibrated stations has collapsed in recent decades. from several thousand to barely a few hundred. and even the sattelites that are now mostly used instead were loosing calibration.

      garbage in will be garbage out, no matter how well you model the garbage compactor.

    26. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 2

      paying their salaries. Think it was BP who was one of their biggest donors (so desperate to find and switch to alternative energy sources they gave us the deepwater horizon disaster) but I forget exactly, it was a long time ago.

    27. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 1
    28. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SOCK PUPPET TROLL ALERT !!
      SOCK PUPPET TROLL ALERT !!

      Research has shown that earth's climate isn't stable.

      Research has shown climate varies by 1 degree per millenium, at its most unstable. It has raised by more than a full degree in the last century, and it could reach 4 degree per century.

      A thousand lies does make an alt-right.

    29. Re: Cannot be climate change by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      No, its bullshit conspiratorial thinking.

    30. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SOCK PUPPET TROLL ALERT !!
      SOCK PUPPET TROLL ALERT !!

      however the measurement error is greater than the measurement.

      Wishful thinking won't save your cognitive dissonnance.

      No citation, nothing but weasel words.

    31. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      zero debate among climate scientists

      Zero debate among flat earth scientists as well.

      Flat-eathers have scientists? Wow who would have thunk. Quick give these "scientists" positions in the tRump administration they would fit right in.

    32. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 1

      "sock puppet". So sayeth anonymous coward....
      sadly much was lost when www.creditcrunch.co.uk was deleted from the internet. still have all the original research though, just no one will pay me to publish it, not even the oil companies, and apparently anything that doesn't say agw is real wouldn't be accepted by the journals anyway. might redo it tho, just because then ac's cant claim no sources when i quote my own efforts on the topic. thing with science is its repeatable.

    33. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Impressive. Every word of what you just said was wrong.

      Take a look.

    34. Re: Cannot be climate change by ISayWeOnlyToBePolite · · Score: 1

      I'm debating so that is provable false. Why were sea levels 10 meters higher than they are now 10,000 years ago.

      Sea level rise: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    35. Re: Cannot be climate change by meglon · · Score: 0

      I can only imagine quite a few people agree with you in your wish that you hadn't commented. You're under the impression "your research" means jack shit compared to actual scientists... it doesn't. All it does is make the people around you more stupid for having to listen to you.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    36. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      doesnt matter. im rich so i can just pay to alleviate any negative personal effects. personally I'm looking forward to mass deaths from global warming because they will create many more opportunities for profit.

    37. Re: Cannot be climate change by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 0

      Since I believe in the usually futile approach of trying to counter lies with facts...

      All that you write is completely true, and conforms to actual laws of physics.

      But you must remember that the people who disagree have very strong convictions and cannot agree to this, because they cannot and do not understand science, they believe that you make up your mind, and reality must conform, and that their personal politics trumps science. A true Triumph of the Will.

      And when they finally accept the fact of the energy retention effects of the so-called greenhouse gases, it will somehow be the fault of her emails. The laws of physics to not care what they think, and neither do I. So ridicule is in order.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    38. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol...links to some spaghetti logic that,"proves" AGW.

    39. Re: Cannot be climate change by fredrated · · Score: 1

      You are a fool and an ass and we are going to eat you when the food systems collapse.

    40. Re: Cannot be climate change by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Incidentally, we also have excellent measurements of solar radiation these days. That is not the cause.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    41. Re: Cannot be climate change by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Indeed. When your will does not change reality (and with anything Physics it very much does not), then a "triumph of will" becomes terminal stupidity.

      These are people that have no clue what a "fact" is and that it does not go away by ignoring it. Hopefully, when humanity starts over, it will be with a way to identify these people early on to make sure they do not get any power whatsoever to decide where things are going.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    42. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You can add equipment to the back of new or existing panels that will produce warm water that can be used for showering and concomitantly cool the panels increasing their efficiency.

      Bert

    43. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. Solar output has been decreasing for years as part of those natural cycles you are talming about, and yet the global average temperature is still increasing.

      Take a look:
      https://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm

      Do you really think climatologists, despite having studied weather and climate for most of their lifetimes, are so stupid that it hasnâ(TM)t occurred to them to include solar output variation considerations into their climate models?

      Of course they account for this! No climatologist would be taken seriously if his or her model didnâ(TM)t take solar influence into account!

      The problem is that even after they do this, that there is still a marked observed increasing temperature trend, over and above any variation that would result from the sunâ(TM)s behavior (or even in the opposite direction as is happening now).

      Climatologists are not idiots. Claiming that they havenâ(TM)t considered the sun only shows the depths of your own ignorance, not of theirs.

    44. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately solar panels are less efficient when they're warmer. When we lived in Tucson, our panels generated more power in the shoulder seasons than in the dead of summer.

      You are either straight up wrong, or your panels are facing the wrong way (not south).

      An alternative to the first option is that you are wrong but think you are right because the AC bill/use is higher in the dead of summer than the shoulder seasons, along with utility rates.

    45. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What you are missing is that the truth is a Jewish conspiracy:

      It was the Jews that invented the idea that there is one God, and therefore one truth: "the truth is what God sees". Science is just a spin-off from Judaism.

      Obviously, there is no need for people who are not Jewish (or Christian or Muslim) to believe in the concept of truth at all. Everyone is just as entitled to their own reality as everyone else.

      Equally obviously, American fundamentalist "Christians" (who believe the opposite of what Jesus actually taught) are entitled to their God given right go on living in cloud-cuckoo land.

    46. Re: Cannot be climate change by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      They'll be complaining loud and clear and demand that people responsible be prosecuted for crimes against humanity and executed, when their cities start to flood and that could happen a whole lot sooner than people think. Weather is the real threat now, that heat wave that will eliminate permafrost and release a methane generated heatwave, in the worst place imaginable, where ice turns to flooded cities and the deaths of millions. Get out your dice and start rolling them, it's only a matter of time and a matter of chance, as to how soon and how bad, far beyond anything put out as worst case examples and in a few years not in a century. Either the permafrost breaks down slowly and not that bad, still far worse than claimed or it goes really fast and a century of sea level rise occurs in those few short years.

      Too late to stop know and when hundreds of millions start screaming crimes against humanity, the perpetrators will be tried and executed for those crimes against humanity, first the corrupt politicians, the media personalities who spread propaganda and then those who paid for it all. When hundreds of millions call for your death, there is absolutely no stopping it.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    47. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      I'm looking forward to mass deaths from global warming because they will create many more opportunities for profit.

      So you plan to set up a business selling things to dead people?

      Good luck with that!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    48. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This will never happen. Itâ(TM)s hilarious.

    49. Re: Cannot be climate change by Sique · · Score: 2
      While this might be right, there is at least as much interest in getting really good climate prediction (agricultural resource planning) and badmouthing the idea that putting additional carbon dioxide, methane and vapor in the air might have adversarial long term effects (everyone getting a profit from doing so).

      And if we compare the total revenue of enterprises concerned with agriculture, of enterprises concerned with extracting and burning fossil carbon compounds and enterprises selling alternative energy sources, we come to a point that for the last 30 years, enterprises extracting and burning fossil carbon dwarfed everyone else with their economic power (the global revenue just from selling crude oil in 2017 for instance was about US$ 240 trillions).

      So if you really consider the possibility that much in climate science is paid for by vested interests, I wonder why it should be that it systematically errs detrimetrically to the interests of the biggest and most powerful bidder on the bribe market.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    50. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please read chapter 9 of the ipcc report, the models are not getting better. In fact its been proven by the ipcc report that climate models have errors and need to be fix. Along with this is the truth there is still more types of climate data that is needed to make the models more accurate. Also read chapter 14 in the ipcc report.

        It nevers ceases to amaze me that so many claim the climate models are accurate but fail to read the report that discusses such models.

      -geekpoet

    51. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually he's right. The major issue in Tucson is the high temperature, which causes a decrease in PV efficiency. They're tested at 77, but in the summer in southern AZ the temp is frequently much higher; for example it was a shade under 110 today, and the highs have been over 100 for the past week.

    52. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 1

      just the graph will do. https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...

    53. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 1

      then explain why sea levels were 10 meters higher 10,000 years ago. https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...

    54. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 1

      And if it does happen they'll just blame god like they did the last time it happened.

    55. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 0

      Yep, but when the odd scientist, with a grant that allows them to publish without the permission of the grant donor, actually publishes real science and shows it mostly hogwash, its all 'omfg evil oil companies are funding anti agw research'. when exactly the opposite it true.

    56. Re:Cannot be climate change by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Yeah. I have confidence in human ability to adapt and survive, and meanwhile I can look forward excellent weather in my old age.

    57. Re:Cannot be climate change by Luckyo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And it's this sort of nonsense that is the reason why so many people are convinced it's a hoax. Because the factual statement is mixed with patently absurd claim.

      Yes, the climate change is causing the outlier weather to increase. Yes, it is in part human made. Yes, rationality is relevant.

      No it's not going to kill us, nor is it going to kill our children. Humans as species are at their best when adapting to slow, ongoing changes to their environment. Global warming is the definition of such a change. It's why essentially all of the catastrophist "we're all going to die" predictions made on it so far have been proven false, such as that we're going to starve due to reduction of farmland (least world hunger ever right now, and we're well ahead of the most optimistic projections).

      Because we adapted. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to slow the global warming down by phasing CO2 emissions where we reasonably can to make adaptation easier. Equally doesn't mean that "it's going to kill us or our children".

      Don't be stupid like the parent or the idiots that upvoted him. Be rational, understand the actual problem rather than the ridiculous hyperbole, and act accordingly. That is how you bring people who read the "we're all going to starve", see that in two decades, we produce more food than ever before and world hunger crisis is almost solved, and conclude that doomsayers were wrong about everything they said, rather than just their conclusions based on facts.

    58. Re: Cannot be climate change by Sique · · Score: 5, Informative
      Apparently, it is hogwash, paid for by the big oil companies. Did you ever consider that?

      First: The greenhouse effect itself and the contributing gasses are long known, at least for 120 years, when Svante Arrhenius first published about it. For astronomers, especially for planetologists, the greenhouse effect on other planets and their moons is an interesting field of research since the 1970ies, when the first probes were sent to Venus and Mars (spoiler: both of them have one, several hundreds of Kelvin on Venus, about 20 Kelvin on Mars). A back-of-the-envelope calculation for the Earth gives a good estimate for the size of the greenhouse effect here: We know, that each square meter on the orbit of the Earth gets about 1.4 kW from the Sun, the so called Solar constant. With the diameter of the Earth given (a little more than 12,700 km), we can calculate that the Sun delivers about 180 Exawatt of thermal power to the Earth. If the Earth would just absorb the whole energy, heat up and then radiate all power to space like a black body, it would be about 255 K warm (Stefan-Boltzmann law), quite close to 0 F. But on average, the earth's surface is about 290 K warm. So we can estimate that the Earth's atmosphere has a greenhouse effect of about 35 K.

      Everyone denying the existance of a greenhouse effect on Earth or the idea that carbon dioxide plays a role needs good arguments.

      Second: The composition of Earth's atmosphere has interested the scientists since Joseph Priestley at the end of the 18th century discovered that air is not a single element, but a mixture of several gasses. At the end of the 19th century, the composition of Earth's atmosphere contained about 270 ppm of carbon dioxide, as we can find out if we look for instance into Anatole Leduc, Nouvelles Recherches sur les Gaz, published in 1899 or other contemporary sources. Current readings of the carbon dioxide content of the air give about 410 ppm (e.g. The Keeling Curve). We can calculate how much additional carbon dioxide has to be released to increase the carbon dioxide contents of the atmosphere by 140 ppm (700 billion metric tons of carbon dioxide), and how much carbon you have to burn to create that much carbon dioxide (200 billion metric tons). And if we look up how much coal and crude oil was mined and pumped up since 1900, and how much pure carbon they contain, we come up with an estimate of about 350 billion metric tons of oil and coal, containing about 270 billion metric tons of carbon.

      Everyone denying that those amounts of coal and oil mined, pumped and for a large part burned have something to do with the increase of the carbon dioxide content of the atmosphere has to come up with really good arguments.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    59. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Show us your work, smartypants.

    60. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When was that, smartypants?

    61. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen, bro!

      Preach the Real Truf.

      Hold nothing bakc!

    62. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Citations by many weather stations around the world

      Be sure to physically check those stations to make sure they are not in a carpark next to a running vehicle like the one reporting record breaking temperatures in Scotland.

      Unfortunately in this particular instance we have evidence that a stationary vehicle with its engine running was parked too close to the observing enclosure and the Stevenson screen housing the thermometers during the afternoon of 28th June. Although the measurement appears plausible given the weather conditions that day we cannot rule-out the potential for contamination of the measurement by this non-weather-related factor.

      Have to love the Although the measurement appears plausible line, no observational bias there.

    63. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The physics aren't that complicated

      Except it is. There is 1 molecule of CO2 for every 2500 molecules of air at the current 400ppm concentration, and yet we're supposed to accept this one molecule has the heat radiating ability to raise the temperature of 2499 other molecules by 1 degree Celsius, even though CO2 on absorbs less than 11% of reflected IR? If CO2 can produce that amount of heat we should be using it to power our cities.

    64. Re: Cannot be climate change by Angeret · · Score: 1

      I wish I had mod points to give so you'll just have to settle for a thank you. Makes a pleasant change to read something that doesn't look like it fell off a LiveLeak thread.

    65. Re: Cannot be climate change by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      Here's a more detailed graph.

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...

    66. Re: Cannot be climate change by religionofpeas · · Score: 2

      There is 1 molecule of CO2 for every 2500 molecules of air at the current 400ppm concentration

      Take a thin sheet of glass, and put a thin layer of paint on it. Try to look through.

      Now take a 100 times thicker piece of glass, and put the same layer of paint on it. Now that the concentration of paint vs glass is much less, does that make it easier to see through ?

      The absolute amount of CO2 matters, not the concentration. And we've increased the absolute amount by about 35% since the industrial revolution.

    67. Re:Cannot be climate change by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 2

      Oh please. If a place has had reliable weather measuring equipment for just over eighty years and it took almost sixty years to hit a new high, that's evidence of cooling. That's basic statistics.

      So when did you hear of the last time there was a streak of all-time low temperature records? You obviously have no idea how statistics work.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    68. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      arxiv.org will not refuse, post it there, smartypants.

    69. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it is the very existence of the blog post you've referenced that shows the collected data are verified and that suspicious data points are removed from the published data.

      And yes, you should love the quote - the data point was removed not because it was wrong, but because that was a distant possibility.

      See, that's an example of intellectual honesty that you're watching, something that you lack utterly.

    70. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 1

      think you mean "here's a graph paid for by the alternative energy scientists that ignores sea levels being 10m higher than they are now"
      just like hadly cru deleted the middle age warm period.

    71. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that record is only a few hundred years.

      The earth is BILLIONS of years old. Let me know when you are have actual temp readings going back a billion years to get a true average of the climate.

      Oh, and the #1 green house gas is WATER VAPOR. Not CO2. So unless we can change the fundamental laws of thermodynamics our tiny contribution (or removal) of CO2 ain't going to do squat.

    72. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and yet we're supposed to accept this one molecule has the heat radiating ability

      The CO2 molecule doesn't have "heat radiating ability", dimwit, it is able to trap some of the energy that comes from the sun as visible light, gets to the surface and is re-emitted as infrared.

      This extra energy, trapped by the CO2 molecules is the reason why the temperature goes up.

      Originally, the energy came from the Sun, and yes, the Sun is a powerful emitter.

    73. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > It's CO2 and methane

      You're fucking retarded. WATER VAPOR is the #1 greenhouse gas.

      You claim to have insight but fail right out of the gate.

      Please be stupid somewhere else.

    74. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >There is no debate that it is man made.

      You're a fucking unimformed NUTTER.

      WATER VAPOR is the #1 greenhouse gas. Its not man made, its the natural cycle of the climate.

      You claim to be informed yet make retarded and uninformed posts.

      There is a reason we smart people don't listen to idiots that say stupid things like 'man made global warming'.

    75. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a misleading analogy. Paint on the glass surface isn't equivalent to a solution of impurities inside the glass and yes, if you put the same amount of impurities in a lot more glass, it will be more transparent.

    76. Re: Cannot be climate change by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      You are right, we can't do anything about current solar energy variations. The output of the sun has been falling for decades.

    77. Re: Cannot be climate change by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      I'm debating so that is provable false. Why were sea levels 10 meters higher than they are now 10,000 years ago.

      They weren't.

      https://judithcurry.com/2011/0...

      From the IPCC AR4

      Global sea level rose by about 120 m during the several millennia that followed the end of the last ice age (approximately 21,000 years ago), and stabilised between 3,000 and 2,000 years ago. Sea level indicators suggest that global sea level did not change significantly from then until the late 19th century.

      Sea levels were lower 10,000 years ago, but about 40m. That is why there are (slightly younger), towns underwater across the world.

    78. Re: Cannot be climate change by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      In the graph the present day is on the left, during the period of dramatic rise. The first graph of the tick to the right is 20,000 years ago, and 10,000 years before present is half way, showing a sea level about 30m below present (eyeballing it) on that graph. You've misread the graph.

    79. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Temperature is not climate change.

    80. Re: Cannot be climate change by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      Actually, I see the blip you are looking at. But I don't know where the graph comes from, as it's not the wikipedia page, which has https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    81. Re: Cannot be climate change by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      Both graphs are from Wikipedia. What makes you think that yours is more reliable ? Have you looked at the sources, or do you just pick the one that you prefer ?

    82. Re: Cannot be climate change by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      What increase in solar output? There hasn't been one.

    83. Re: Cannot be climate change by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      Research has shown that earth's climate isn't stable.

      True

      Research can't show us what the proper climate should be.

      True

      Research cannot show us how much co2 and other gases affect the climate

      The models are pretty good.

      Research cannot even predict next day's weather.

      Massively false.

      Everything will always be in balance. If you have a long period of high temps you'll have a period with low temps

      The earth is not a closed system, so false

      Sometimes you get ice ages sometimes you get scorching periods with huge fauna and flora.

      The mechanisms driving the ice ages are largely known.

      Even if it will become 2 times hotter, the planet will cool down again, eventually and dinosaurs might come back again.

      The temperature of the earth is about 300K. Twice as hot would be about 600K, or about 327C

    84. Re: Cannot be climate change by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      Read Cowtan et al, 2015.

    85. Re: Cannot be climate change by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      Two times hotter would be 327C, as temperature is measured in Kelvin!

    86. Re: Cannot be climate change by q_e_t · · Score: 2

      Be sure to physically check those stations to make sure they are not in a carpark next to a running vehicle like the one reporting record breaking temperatures in Scotland.

      In reality, someone did an analysis of the records, taking out those places that are now near a carpark, etc., and restricting the measurements just to rural areas. The result was an increase in the global warming trend (although my a tiny amount). This is what is called a sensitivity analysis, and shows the trend is not particularly sensitive to whether the stations are in urban areas or not. Obviously the temporary output from a car exhaust is another matter, but extreme outliers that do not match close stations are examined, or often automatically excluded.

    87. Re: Cannot be climate change by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      if you put the same amount of impurities in a lot more glass, it will be more transparent.

      Citation required.

    88. Re: Cannot be climate change by q_e_t · · Score: 2

      Except it is. There is 1 molecule of CO2 for every 2500 molecules of air at the current 400ppm concentration, and yet we're supposed to accept this one molecule has the heat radiating ability to raise the temperature of 2499 other molecules by 1 degree Celsius, even though CO2 on absorbs less than 11% of reflected IR?

      It has been known for 150 years that concentrations of CO2 of the level found in the atmosphere will trap heat.

      If CO2 can produce that amount of heat we should be using it to power our cities.

      It doesn't produce heat, it just prevents its loss to space, much as a blanket doesn't produce heat, but still keeps you warm.

    89. Re: Cannot be climate change by shmlco · · Score: 1

      "...water vapor responds to and amplifies effects of the other greenhouse gases. The Clausius–Clapeyron relation establishes that more water vapor will be present per unit volume at elevated temperatures. This and other basic principles indicate that warming associated with increased concentrations of the other greenhouse gases also will increase the concentration of water vapor. Because water vapor is a greenhouse gas, this results in further warming and so is a "positive feedback" that amplifies the original warming."

      Or to put it into smaller words: More CO2 > more warming > more evaporation > more warming. Rinse, and repeat as needed.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    90. Re: Cannot be climate change by Stephan+Schulz · · Score: 2

      with a grant that allows them to publish without the permission of the grant donor,

      I've never ever had to ask a granting agency to allow me to publish a result. Indeed, as far as I know there is not even a process to do so. I've never heard of a colleague with a public grant (EU, DFG, NSF, ERC, ...) to clear publications, either. You live in a very paranoid world.

      --

      Stephan

    91. Re: Cannot be climate change by shmlco · · Score: 2

      The drop should been around 15% or so. While somewhat significant, capturing the remain 85% is still better than capturing 0% and pulling that power in from elsewhere.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    92. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > "heat radiating ability"
      > re-emitted

    93. Re:Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "No it's not going to kill us, nor is it going to kill our children"
      It'll kill a lot of other people and their children

    94. Re:Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slow? Slow in the contest you are drawing needs clarification and some metrics.
        I agree that we and our F1 progeny won't die en masse directly based on climate change. Slow in geological terms, yes. Within generational time, on the other hand, climate is changing and not slowly.."Humans as species are at their best when adapting to slow, ongoing changes to their environment. Global warming is the definition of such a change." Slow?

    95. Re:Cannot be climate change by shilly · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There's so much rich stupidity here, it's an overwhelming choice. I'll go for this one, which other commenters have left on the table: "Humans as species are at their best when adapting to slow, ongoing changes to their environment"

      What a load of drivel. Humans are particularly shit at adapting to slow, ongoing changes to their environment. Our inability in this area was the prime cause for the collapse of many human civilisations. Water sources gradually ran dry, food sources got used up, soil became unproductive, etc.

    96. Re:Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it's not going to kill us, nor is it going to kill our children. Humans as species are at their best when adapting to slow, ongoing changes to their environment. Global warming is the definition of such a change. It's why essentially all of the catastrophist "we're all going to die" predictions made on it so far have been proven false, such as that we're going to starve due to reduction of farmland (least world hunger ever right now, and we're well ahead of the most optimistic projections).

      Well, I hate to break this to you, but one of the biggest problems faced by entire ecosystems and the organisms that comprise them, is the exceptionally fast rates of change they are being subjected to.

      Google 'PETM Extinction Event' to get an idea of the time scales and rates of climate change that led to that particular extinction event. Then take into consideration that current rates of change are multiple orders of magnitude greater.

    97. Re: Cannot be climate change by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      I'm debating so that is provable false. Why were sea levels 10 meters higher than they are now 10,000 years ago.

      Uhh, do you have a point? Are you claiming climate scientists don't know?

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    98. Re: Cannot be climate change by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      >There is no debate that it is man made.

      You're a fucking unimformed NUTTER.

      WATER VAPOR is the #1 greenhouse gas. Its not man made, its the natural cycle of the climate.

      Yes it is. Your conclusions prove that you stopped thinking after you were given that information.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    99. Re:Cannot be climate change by Oligonicella · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're using very very low tech civilizations for your example. They didn't just all lay down and die, ala Serenity. They migrated. Now we don't have to, although some see that as their option.

    100. Re: Cannot be climate change by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      Actually, it can. Or rather, it can show us what climate we as humans consider optimal.

      No it cannot, as 'optimal' is subjective.

    101. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 2

      just like the mediaval warm period never happened eh. https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...

    102. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't change what is written in the offical ipcc report. They provide all info on the math issues concerning current models. And the problem of future prediction in a chaotic system.

      -geekpoet

    103. Re:Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We won't be adapting when all our fucking food won't grow. We'll be starving and dying, then there will be disease from that if we don't clean up fast enough.

      Too much heat is bad. Wake the fuck up and start doing something to help stop it.

    104. Re: Cannot be climate change by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      The physics aren't that complicated

      Except it is. There is 1 molecule of CO2 for every 2500 molecules of air at the current 400ppm concentration, and yet we're supposed to accept this one molecule has the heat radiating ability to raise the temperature of 2499 other molecules by 1 degree Celsius, even though CO2 on absorbs less than 11% of reflected IR? If CO2 can produce that amount of heat we should be using it to power our cities.

      Take one molecule of Arsenic for every 2500 molecules in your body. You should be fine.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    105. Re:Cannot be climate change by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Our "fucking food" would love several TIMES the CO2 in the air. Research CO2 amounts usually used in greenhouses. Those are optimized to produce maximum growth.

      It's one of the key reasons why we have all but beaten world hunger, well ahead of the most optimistic UN estimations at the time when it looked absolutely catastrophic, was killing millions to tens of millions, and causing severe developmental stunting in tens to hundreds of millions. There's a reason why we call CO2 a "greenhouse gas". It's what we pump at high concentrations into greenhouses to make our food grow bigger and faster.

    106. Re:Cannot be climate change by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      More utter nonsense. Even a cursory examination of anthropology demonstrates clearly that humans are best at adapting to slow changes and worst at adapting to rapid ones.

    107. Re:Cannot be climate change by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Slow as in well within optimal speed for our species to adapt successfully. Species with slow reproduction cycle and only biological adaptation methods at their disposal are the ones being hit the hardest.

      Current projections are that if certain amounts of CO2 are in atmosphere by the end of this century (more than 80 years), and that rate of growth persists we'll be likely facing major survival related issues at around 2400-2500 or so. Considering the rate of adaptation over decades when global warming was recognised as a problem, we'll adapt long before the deadline, either to lower the CO2 and other greenhouse gas emissions, or to adapt to the changing habitat.

    108. Re:Cannot be climate change by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      By your logic, it appears to have so far saved hundreds of millions at the very least. Plant life became much more efficient due to more CO2 in the air, serving the fight against world hunger. Which is almost over. We crushed it. As long as there isn't war disrupting our ability to get food to the destination, there's more enough food in the world to feed everyone even with the population growth in poorest regions being as explosive as it is.

      So by your logic, it's going to have to do a lot of killing to even get to net zero, and it's not getting there any time soon, and likely never. Which is why I suggest using rational thinking, rather than absurd catastrophism.

    109. Re:Cannot be climate change by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Most people who argue about extinction event consistently ignore that this extinction event has been ongoing for at least 10000 years. Likely longer.

      We're still here, and we don't actually need a primeval ecosystem. It's in fact severely detrimental to us as species, which is why humans started managing their environment, starting the current extinction event during the hunter-gather phase.

    110. Re:Cannot be climate change by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      The Rich and Powerful don't care whether it's human-caused or not, they only care about what happens during their lifetimes and holding on to their wealth and power, and the hell with the rest of humanity. 99% of us could die off because of climate change and they'd be perfectly okay with that, happy about it, because it would mean the consolidation of their power would be complete: so few people left on Earth means it's easier to manage them. We'd probably go back to some form of Feudalism with them being the 'noblemen' and whoever is left being the 'serfs'. Wouldn't at all be surprised of some of these rich fucks are actively contributing to climate change so they can hurry along the apocalypse.

    111. Re:Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plant life became much more efficient due to more CO2 in the air, serving the fight against world hunger.

      Judging by your ignorance, you must be from the Republican-evangelist part of the US population.

      The "fight against world hunger" was won by application of science and technology to improve crop yields, not because of more CO2 in the air.

    112. Re:Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a reason why we call CO2 a "greenhouse gas"

      Yes, and it isn't what the ignorant victim of the evangelist christian home schooling thinks it is.

    113. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Optimal isn't subjective, it is the solution that produces most output given a bunch of constraints, and these are usually of engineering and resource nature.

      You can easily compare two optima even if they result, as is the case here, from moving the constraints due to climate changes.

    114. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any book of optics, the chapter that discusses transmission of EM waves in matter.

      For example, Fowles, "Introduction to modern optics", page 151 and onwards.

      The number of ignorant fucktards on slashdot is ever closer to the number of slashdotters.

    115. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, one is not like the other. What's your point, other than emphasizing your American ignorance?

    116. Re:Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are most likely right, it is not going to kill us all. But if it kills e.g. 90% of us, do you think you are one of those who dies or one of those who doesn't?

      Some reasons why it will kill many:
      - Most fungus species are non-deadly to humans, because human body temperature is too high for fungus. Should environment tempetature go higher, more fungus would adapt to warm temperatures.
      - CO2 in oceans will make it more acid, which will in turn kill the fish. This means less food.
      - Environment near equator will inhabitable, meaning that food production in those areas will also stop.
      - A lot of people will move in search of food. This will cause terrorist attacks and eventually war.
      - Insects and deceases will move to north areas, killing both plants and humans.

      It is possible for humans to recover this nearly unharmed. It only requires co-operation between those who have nothing and those who have a lot. I'm usually optimistic, but I just can't see that this would happen, so war is more likely.

    117. Re:Cannot be climate change by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      You should share this knowledge with greenhouse farmers that they're doing it wrong then. Because that's why we call CO2 "greenhouse gas". We massively increase the concentration of CO2 in greenhouses, because it makes plants grow faster and bigger food produce.

    118. Re:Cannot be climate change by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Thanks for once again making a point that modern green movement views nature in religious rather than scientific terms.

    119. Re:Cannot be climate change by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      -Most of everything on the planet is non-deadly to humans by the same measure.
      -At the same time more CO2 in the air means more effective plant life. This means more food and is one of the main causes of the fact that we have beaten the most positive UN projections for beating world hunger. It's all but gone. And if what we know about plant life based on growing them in greenhouses is true, plants would love to have much, MUCH more CO2 in the air for optimal growth. Far more than would be healthy for our respiratory systems in long term, and far more than even the most catastrophist projections would show in a millenia.
      -This was one of the central false claims behind the "world hunger will explode" narrative in 1990s. It has been long debunked.
      -This has been the case throughout human history. People move around for variety of reasons, such as the current migration crisis being caused by explosive population growth in Africa combined with implosive population collapse in Europe. This is not a threat to humanity. It's simply a continuation of "more of the same" of human history and its natural progression, and considering the nature of modern food production, it's going to be more of the same of the current warfare. As in more of the fairly well satiated misery than actual death.
      -Are there people and plants that co-exist with those insects, or do these insects exist outside their biological niche in your mind? Because for your claim to make sense, latter would have to be true.

      It is extremely likely for humans to manage this relatively unscathed. It requires no more co-operation between those that have "nothing" which by modern standards is more than most tribal leaders had a few hundred years ago, and those who have a lot, because strife for resources in modern world ceased being about survival now that world hunger has been all but defeated. It's now a struggle for comfort in life.

    120. Re:Cannot be climate change by shilly · · Score: 1

      Oh really? Care to share your brief survey of the anthropological literature that demonstrates your point, would you? Or are you just using a big word in the hope that it demonstrates your authority?

    121. Re:Cannot be climate change by shilly · · Score: 1

      We have an n of 1 for non-very very low tech civilisations faced with our particular challenges, and the only migration that helps for global crises is space exploration.

    122. Re: Cannot be climate change by Muros · · Score: 1

      The graph is about the Baltic region. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      Without delving into it too closely, I am assuming that the blip is due to the huge isostatic rebound in the area following the start of the current interglacial.

    123. Re: Cannot be climate change by Green+Mountain+Bot · · Score: 1

      It was the Jews that invented the idea that there is one God ...

      Incorrect. That would be the Zoroastarians of ancient Persia.

    124. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't listen to this poster. He works for big tin foil!

    125. Re: Cannot be climate change by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      I couldn't give a shit about the funding implications. "AGW" is a direct result of basic fucking physics and thermodynamics. To deny it is to delude oneself, period.
      Now, measuring the precise amounts of AGW, that's a trick, because the Earth is a big fucking complicated system with all kinds of reservoirs for positive and negative feedbacks at varying rates of fill or potentially release hidden all over the place, but it's quite clear the deniers aren't interested in the nuance, because they're chasing the God of the Gaps here. They simply move their argument to whatever the next gap in knowledge is whenever one is filled, completely ignoring the *fact* that these gaps will eventually all be filled, and initial conclusions supported, because the basic fucking physics dictated it long before we had the details.

    126. Re: Cannot be climate change by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      I got good numbers - great numbers in fact.

      The best numbers? I bet you're the smartest guy you know. I bet your IQ is huge.

      and even the sattelites that are now mostly used instead were loosing calibration.

      I want you to know that sentences like that make it very hard to trust your intelligence, not to mention your education.

      but the error on that average was still plus or minus a couple of degrees for each year.

      Wait, did I just read that you're discounting a measurable change over decades because the yearly rate has error bars of greater than the yearly divisor of the aggregate change? Ok, fuck your spelling. It's irrelevant. You have just broadcast to everyone here that you're quite literally incapable of deductive thought processes.
      If only the field of statistics had your knowledge- god knows what we could accomplish.

      didn't collect any readings from the oceans 150 years ago for example

      WHAT? What the flying fuck does this have to do with the error margins on contemporary readings!?
      I have to surmise that you're in fact a liar. There's no way you did anything approaching research- you have demonstrated a clear deficit in the mental acuity required for it.
      Quit spreading your half-baked horse shit to defend your fragile mind from the cognitive dissonance imposed upon from reality collapsing in on your little belief bubble. Seriously, you've pushed this shit far enough that I don't feel civility is in order anymore. You are criminally stupid.

    127. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 1

      ->The best numbers? I bet you're the smartest guy you know. I bet your IQ is huge.
      For someone who isn't a climatologist, pretty happy, yes.
      Some of the graphs are still up.
      Raw Data
      http://www.theborgmatrix.com/g...
      Fitting it to a curve to get average temperature
      http://www.theborgmatrix.com/g...
      Using that to fill in the missing data
      http://www.theborgmatrix.com/g...
      Using that to estimate the change in tilt of the earth (further north = higher temp - the white spots in the previous image)
      http://www.theborgmatrix.com/g...

      ->I want you to know that sentences like that make it very hard to trust your intelligence
      I want you to know I almost care.

      ->Wait, did I just read that you're discounting a measurable change over decades because the yearly rate
      Nope
      discounting a rate because the measurements are
      10-12,8-13,10-13,9-20
      There is no provable pattern there, even though the average goes from 11 to ~15.

      ->WHAT? What the flying fuck does this have to do with the error margins on contemporary readings!?
      see graph "raw data". not having the coldest readings biases the data very badly.

    128. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so. tiresome.

    129. Re: Cannot be climate change by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      What has that got to do with sea levels 10,000 years ago? You are engaging in misdirection. I don't know where you got the graph you posted earlier (other than Wikipedia) as it seems not to be the one normally referenced, even by Judith Curry (an AGW sceptic).

    130. Re: Cannot be climate change by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      It can't be isostatic rebound, as that wouldn't explain the increase above present levels. However, if the baltic was blocked until a land or ice barrier was broken, it would explain it. That certainly happened in other regions. It's a bit odd to use a graph from a very small part of the world to argue that sea level was higher 10,000 years ago.

    131. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 1

      And thanks, now archived for the ages.
      http://forumslide.theborgmatri...

    132. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 1

      did you really just ask what has the noaa estimates of sea levels and ice ages over the last 800000 years got to do with the sea levels 10,000 years ago.... sorry can't help you. try googling "sea level history"

      or read my full story
      http://forumslide.theborgmatri...

    133. Re:Cannot be climate change by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      No, I'm just sad at yet another green activist/someone who has been duped by green activists to believe something that is opposite of reality.

      A good example of slow adaptation has been adaptation to post ice age warming in Europe in fact. Everything from emergence of white skin to new farming methods has facilitated being able to exist in areas where just ten thousand years ago, people would have died to combination of lack of know how on how to manage resources and lack of vitamin D.

    134. Re: Cannot be climate change by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      No, I asked what mentioning the Medieval Warm Period had to do with things 10,000 years ago.

    135. Re:Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, it's going to kill a lot of people. Maybe not all of them, but a lot of them. Here's how.

      1. Drought. Shifting rain patterns lead to changes in precipitation, which leads to less clean water where people currently live.
      2. Famine. Shifting rain patterns lead to changes in irrigation, which leads to food not growing where food is currently grown.
      3. Mass migration and refuge seeking. People will of course want flee to areas with food and water.
      4. War. Oh, you thought nation states would just let foreigners into their God-given land? You thought starving countries would just tell their populous to seek asylum abroad?
        • This would be a good point to look up the reason Nazi Germany needed "Lebensraum", i.e. space to live.
    136. Re:Cannot be climate change by shilly · · Score: 1

      OK, so far we've established that:
      1. You are either unable or unwilling to provide any external evidence to back up your evidence, despite explicitly referring to anthropology in your original reply
      2. Your favoured variety of ad hominem comes laced with sentiments designed to make you feel good about your superior knowledge ("I'm just sad...")
      3. You think that the emergence of white skin is effectively demonstrates that "Humans as species are at their best when adapting to slow, ongoing changes to their environment"

      That's quite the job you've done there. When you're up for actually learning about this subject, rather than dismissing concepts you don't like on the basis of knowledge you don't have about people's politics, here are four books on the topic:
      The Collapse of Ancient Societies, Joseph Tainter, Camb Univ Press, 1988
      The Collapse of Ancient States and Civilisations, Yoffee and Cowgill, Tucson: Univ of Arizona Press, 1988
      The Long Summer, Brian Fagan, New York: Basic Books, 2004
      Historical Dynamics: Why States Rise and Fall, Peter Turchin, Princeton Univ Press, 2003

    137. Re: Cannot be climate change by mSparks43 · · Score: 1
    138. Re:Cannot be climate change by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Drought - catastrophist claims came in 1990s, with suggestions that drought would be killing even more than it was killing back then today. Access to clean drinking water is best it ever was. Debunked.
      Famine - exact same as drought. We're on track to beat the most optimistic UN targets for defeating world hunger. We've gone from tens of millions dead and hundreds of millions with stunted growth and mental retardation to almost no dead and almost no stunted growth and mental retardation. And we're well on track to eliminate it.
      Mass migration - primary factor is not "seeking food and water" which is readily available in places like Africa today. The problem is implosion of populace in Europe and explosion of populace in Africa. Which leads to the natural pull.
      War - we're literally at some of the lowest if not the lowest levels of warfare in known history. Aforementioned tensions from population disparities will pull people however, which will likely lead to more warfare on global scale.

      And yes, you should in fact look up Lebensraum on merits, rather than as "nazis are bad mmkay and I don't actually know why". Because it will tell you that should we actually need more space to live, Siberia and Russian Far East are still largely empty, and as global warming progresses, they become far more hospitable for humanity. With wheat belt moving south a few tens of meters every year and access to large rivers being opened up, it stands a good chance of becoming one of the more agriculturally productive regions on the planet.

    139. Re:Cannot be climate change by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      That moment when you literally cite a well documented example, and the person answers you with "I have no clue what you're talking about, so I'm going to talk about my utter ignorance of basics as if it established facts about you".

      Okay. Not much there so say really, if you can't even comprehend what I just posted, and instead go for a completely different topic, there's nothing to be said. Ignorance can be penetrated. Opinionated ignorance cannot.

    140. Re: Cannot be climate change by Muros · · Score: 1

      I was thinking that rebound would push land above where it was years ago, making the sea relatively higher in the past. But I followed some of the links from the page I posted, and yes, the Baltic used to be a lake.

    141. Re:Cannot be climate change by shilly · · Score: 1

      You literally cited a well documented example of *evolution*. That really wasn't the subject at hand, now, was it? If you can't distinguish between natural selection and humans' well documented challenges in responding to the tragedy of the commons, then you're right, there is no hope for this conversation.

    142. Re:Cannot be climate change by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      This whining of yours strongly reinforces my suspicion that you just had the copy-paste links ready, and you just needed to jury-rig them into context somehow, rather than just opinionated ignorance.

      Because the topic was indeed adaptation to changing environmental factors, and evolution is literally what we call the process natural adaptation to changing environmental factors in living beings.

      So indeed, there's no hope for conversation when other party is in it for malicious reasons, and isn't interested in discussion at all. Just pushing the narrative, regardless of context.

    143. Re: Cannot be climate change by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      Ah, quoting 20 year old emails out of context...

      Also from the article:

      “A review of more than 200 climate studies led by researchers at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics has determined that the 20th century is neither the warmest century nor the century with the most extreme weather of the past 1000 years.

      Given that the studies show it is, I don't know how a meta-study would conclude that.

      If the MWP was as warm, why didn't glaciers melt?

    144. Re: Cannot be climate change by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      I thought I remembered something along the lines that it had been a lake, but I wasn't sure. It means that quoting a graph of the baltic as a previous poster did (perhaps unknowingly) was erroneous.

    145. Re:Cannot be climate change by jonadab · · Score: 1

      If we were trying to be rational, we'd be asking how dumb we have to be to believe that a heat wave in northeast England was severe enough to melt a substance that is routinely used in places like Dubai and does not, ordinarily, melt in the summer time there. British weather is quite mild compared to the American Midwest, let alone places that actually get *hot* in the summer. A record-breaking high temperature in England is not as high as the _average_ daytime summer high in, say, Phoenix Arizona.

      Clearly, if the story is not an outright fabrication, then it is at least omitting some extremely important information about the cause, which must go well beyond a couple of weeks of hot (by England's standards) weather.

      But sure, it must be global warming. Everything is global warming. We're all gonna die unless we revert to an agrarian society. Too bad the Khmer Rouge failed. They were visionaries!

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    146. Re: Cannot be climate change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "given that it is" ok, so why were sea levels 10m higher in the past than they are now. earth doesnt move that much and there are plenty of high water marks on the side of uneroded coastline mountains to prove it. seen many of them with my own eyes. And just "it didnt happen" like cru data showed the medieval warm period "didnt happen" isnt going to cut it.

  2. Hot enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to boil a monkey's bum.

    1. Re: Hot enough by Tsolias · · Score: 1

      Uma delicia

    2. Re:Hot enough by martinX · · Score: 1

      That's a strange expression, Bruce.

      --
      When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
  3. Bugger! by NewtonsLaw · · Score: 3, Funny

    And here I am, freezing by arse off down here in New Zealand where it's cold, went and windy and I've had a cold for over a month now.

    Throw some of that heat down this way guys!

    1. Re:Bugger! by BitterOak · · Score: 1, Redundant

      And here I am, freezing by arse off down here in New Zealand where it's cold, went and windy and I've had a cold for over a month now.

      Throw some of that heat down this way guys!

      Actually, New Zealand is in the southern hemisphere so it is winter now. It will be warmer in the summer months.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    2. Re: Bugger! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm across the Tasman in Tasmania and we've had a very mild winter this year.

      One season does not equate to climate, but it's certainly compelling.

    3. Re:Bugger! by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

      Throw some of that heat down this way guys!

      . . . just hitch a ride with your fellow citizen, Kim Dotcom . . . he's headed for somewhere very hot in the US.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    4. Re: Bugger! by bestweasel · · Score: 1

      No way man. NewtonsLaw, there's your answer. You're in the wrong hemisphere.

    5. Re:Bugger! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Captain Obvious to the rescue! We're all safe now.

    6. Re:Bugger! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the same kind of trivialising comment about global warming that really grinds my gears.
      Go live on the equator if you want more consistent weather.

      Here's the cycle from people who like "warm weather" in Australia

      Winter: omg its too cold lets take heat from country which is actually in summer
      Begin Summer: ahhhh this is wonderful, I LOVE SUMMER OMG
      Mid Summer: omg its too hot, why is it so hot omg

      Literally the most infinity gauntletable people on the planet

    7. Re:Bugger! by antdude · · Score: 1

      Sure. Let's trade including rains! So. CA had been too hot into the triple digits since its Thanksgiving 2017!

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    8. Re:Bugger! by jemmyw · · Score: 1

      Please no. We just a record breaking summer in NZ. Enjoy the cool respite.

    9. Re:Bugger! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps build a house with some insulation? I live in Finland where it can be -30 degrees Celsius during the winter and I can be naked in my home without feeling the cold. E.g. our windows have 3 layers of glass by default, which seems to be quite rare elsewhere in the world.

  4. Posted by the EPA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This must have been posted by the EPA as proof that global warming/climate change is a hoax.

    1. Re:Posted by the EPA? by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      This must have been posted by the EPA as proof that global warming/climate change is a hoax.

      Erstwhile EPA head Scott Pruitt could freeze hell over by admitting climate change is real. Maybe there'd be a spillover? Hey, I can hope.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    2. Re:Posted by the EPA? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Former oil industry lobbying Scott Pruitt has had to resign following a series of scandals. His replacement is former coal industry lobbyist Andrew Wheeler. Their political stances are identical though.

    3. Re:Posted by the EPA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Their stances maybe the same, but are they wide enough?

  5. Yeah man, but it's a dry heat! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Shut up Hudson.

  6. BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All time??? Hysteria

    1. Re: BS by Tsolias · · Score: 1

      It's not news if it doesn't contain any BS.

    2. Re: BS by Muros · · Score: 1

      It's not news if it doesn't contain any BS.

      It's not real trolling if it doesn't remove context from quotes. All-time records obviously only apply to those times for which we have records.

  7. And yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where I am it has been a very normal summer. In fact, it's ten degrees *cooler* this year, and the summer monsoons are right on schedule. I'm not discounting climate change, but sometimes cycles really are just cycles.

    1. Re:And yet by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The interesting statistics is the ratio of cold and hot records. If the trend in your noisy data is absent, you'd expect cold and hot records to be set at roughtly 1:1, regardless of your history of measurements. In reality, it currently looks like this.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re: And yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your argument would be more compelling if it used some xkcd-style hand-drawn graphs. That way we'd know they're backed by the research of climate scientists. Be sure to include lots of snooty hand-written annotations on these xkcd-style graphs, too.

    3. Re:And yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fortunately extreme heat preferentially kills off snowflakey progressive sluts ... very selective what. Die progressive heat-slut die.

    4. Re:And yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting chart, thanks for the link.

      ... but that chart badly needs a log scale. As it is, it's made to make the highs lines look way bigger than the lows lines, which is incredibly misleading. And unnecessary: the data already supports their point, they just make their argument look weaker by so blatantly misrepresenting the data even thought it agrees with their bias.

    5. Re:And yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Scale doesn't change the point, illiterate idiot.

  8. Re:No way by Nova77 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sometimes I seriously wonder whether those dumb comments are: a. misspelled intentionally, or b. from somebody without a decent education, or c. from a non-native troll.

  9. Yet the deniers like Trump by ReneR · · Score: 0, Troll

    will continue just say, nah, fake news, and continue wasting and polluting the environment like the last 100 years, ..! ;-/

    1. Re:Yet the deniers like Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has been determined that your post has generated +1 CO2 points up to this point. Hopefully this post will increase it to +5. Thanks for playing.

    2. Re: Yet the deniers like Trump by Tsolias · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He should do what obongo did.
      Let BP ruin the gulf, then several years later let them lease areas to drill for oil like nothing happened.
      Thanks obongo.

    3. Re: Yet the deniers like Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who is obongo?

    4. Re: Yet the deniers like Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Trumpa Lumpa in the White House.

    5. Re: Yet the deniers like Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who is obongo?

      It's a racist reference to Obama.

    6. Re: Yet the deniers like Trump by rally2xs · · Score: 1

      Racist? Why is everything always racist? Just because the recent former president happens to be black, everything is now racist? We whites have been calling each other monkeys for 100's of years when we mean morons, but now all of a sudden we can't insult the president, like we've insulted all presidents throughout our entire history, just because he's black? Give it a f'n rest...

  10. Exxon... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Exxon knew this as far back as the 1970s. They had the best climate science back then. They had a decision to make. They chose this. Now we'll all have to suffer the consequences for the sake of Exxon's greed and indifference.

    1. Re:Exxon... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amazing the stupidity of my post. I started reading up and realized I was lying here. My bad.

  11. We're doomed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Earth is burning up!!!! WE"RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Where's Algore, when we need him?

  12. Ouargla, Algeria by cirby · · Score: 0

    This is a bit of bad data.

    The measurement was next to, and downwind of, a jet aircraft parking area.

    The real temperature was probably several degrees cooler at that point. Not even close to a real record.

    Ditto for one in Scotland: they recorded "record high heat" exactly when - of all things - an ice cream truck was parked right next to the weather station for an extended period. Running engine + multiple coolers = a lot of extra heat right on top of the thermometer. They already downgraded that one.

    Basically, most of the "records" we've been seeing lately are a measurement of Urban Heat Island encroachment and bad station siting, not higher overall temperatures.

    (A tip: if you're going to measure temperature trends, don't put vehicles and buildings right next to your instruments...)

    1. Re: Ouargla, Algeria by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Incidents such as those put all climate-related measurements into doubt. I mean, those were cases where the problem was noticed in time and acknowledged. There could very well be many more climate measures that were horribly incorrect, yet the problems affecting them weren't detected.

    2. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by Kohath · · Score: 1, Interesting

      (A tip: if you're going to measure temperature trends, don't put vehicles and buildings right next to your instruments...)

      What if the objective was to create hype about record temperatures in order to advance a political agenda? Then where would we locate our instruments?

    3. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by skoskav · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've heard of single incidents such as the ones you mentioned, but to say that they represent most of the record measurements seems hyperbole. What is your source?

    4. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All lies - exactly as we who know, know. God didn't create a Universe that His creations could monkey with.

    5. Re: Ouargla, Algeria by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For every cockroach you see, there are thousands more that you didn't see. It's the same for climate measurements. You only see one or two incidents of extreme measurement error, but you aren't immediately aware of the many other cases that weren't detected.

    6. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One thing is for sure... they got rid of those old white boxes protecting from solar radiation and switched to self-heating sensors like thermistors and silicon "smart sensors" complete with an MCU. Some of the expensive "scientific" quality sensors these days for surface and sub-surface measurements are pretty bad. +/-5 degrees in some cases. They should probably go back to mercury thermometers just to keep things consistent. Between NASA manipulating temperature data from satellites (remember how they said New York would be under water by 2012?... that guy) and throwing out data that doesn't correlate to CO2 models, it is hard to tell if the temperature measurements even compare to how it was done before 1980's.

    7. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by sjames · · Score: 1

      And the guy who sunk into the tarmac just happened to be carelessly testing his now flamethrower at the time. And clearly the highs in Ireland are nothinb more than the result of pranking leprechauns running around sticking all the thermometers in buckets of hot water. As they are known to do.

    8. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Citation, pls. Thx.

    9. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like we do now: at airports. They are generally speaking the fastest growing areas the past five decades. It's a great way to get higher readings.

    10. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Citation?

    11. Re: Ouargla, Algeria by skoskav · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Rogue ice cream truck engines next to measurement stations doesn't convincingly explain the sudden two weeks of consistently higher-than-average temperature all across the UK, nor the deluge of heat records specifically during May in Fennoscandia (in Swedish, but you can still get the gist from the pretty pictures).

      You can't dismiss all ground weather stations' data because of a few anomalies when that data is still corroborated by other sources, such as satellite measurements -- It's not intellectually honest. Find an alternative theory that can explain all the previous data and predict future trends better than anthropogenic climate change.

    12. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by Shikaku · · Score: 1

      https://public.wmo.int/en/medi...

      This is my source, with citations, although not necessarily the GP's:

      (countries emphasized by me)

      WMO uses datasets (based on monthly climatological data from observing sites) from the United States National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, and the United Kingdom’s Met Office Hadley Centre and the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit in the United Kingdom.

      It also uses reanalysis datasets from the European Centre for Medium Range Weather Forecasts and its Copernicus Climate Change Service, and the Japan Meteorological Agency. This method combines millions of meteorological and marine observations, including from satellites, with models to produce a complete reanalysis of the atmosphere. The combination of observations with models makes it possible to estimate temperatures at any time and in any place across the globe, even in data-sparse areas such as the polar regions.

    13. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by skoskav · · Score: 1

      Hi, thanks for the interesting press release. I was however asking GP for a source on the claim that bad data was behind most of the heat records. In hindsight I should have made myself more clear on that.

    14. Re: Ouargla, Algeria by cirby · · Score: 1

      Actually, "normal climate variability" or "a heat wave" explains it nicely.

      High daytime temps are NOT part of the catastrophic AGW prediction set, you know. The theory is that NIGHTTIME temps will increase, not daytime, so the overall average goes up.

      And when they talk about "consistently higher" temps, they're literally talking about fractions of a degree in most cases.

      By the way - there have been a few surveys of weather stations, and the vast majority of them have problems, mostly caused by either encroaching cities (the Urban Heat Island effect) or bad instrument siting. Very, very few stations have consistent records, with relatively untouched siting. The ones that do? Well, they don't show the AGW trend that the others do... and the response by AGW scientists is to adjust the ones that aren't showing the increase (AKA "throwing out the good data so the bad data looks better").

      Try this site, for a bit of data that will shock you...

      http://www.surfacestations.org/
       

    15. Re: Ouargla, Algeria by bestweasel · · Score: 1

      It's worse than that, the climate scientists and the deep state, sorry "Deep State", have a secret agency, members of which travel the world sabotaging climate sensors in order to protect their continuing access to taxpayers' money.

      Where they can gain access to the sensors (through the secret brotherhood) they will calibrate them to show warmer temperatures. Otherwise they will park airplanes or ice cream trucks or barbecues next to them or start forest fires, or pay homeless people or persuade cats to sleep on them.

    16. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You nailed why most of the alarmists cherry-pick their data from airports. Sad how hard it is to get raw data.

    17. Re: Ouargla, Algeria by skoskav · · Score: 1

      Actually, "normal climate variability" or "a heat wave" explains it nicely.

      That's very unspecific, and goes against climate scientists' overwhelming consensus, specifically that recent calculations concludes that the Earth is warming orders of magnitude faster than from natural forces. Neither "normal climate variability" nor "heat waves" seems to account for past data, nor is able to predict future trends better than AGW.

      High daytime temps are NOT part of the catastrophic AGW prediction set, you know. The theory is that NIGHTTIME temps will increase, not daytime, so the overall average goes up.

      And when they talk about "consistently higher" temps, they're literally talking about fractions of a degree in most cases.

      I couldn't find a source that only night temperatures will increase -- what's yours? The closest I could find was this article explaining why night-time temperatures are warming faster than day-time temperatures. They're both still warming though.

      By the way - there have been a few surveys of weather stations, and the vast majority of them have problems, mostly caused by either encroaching cities (the Urban Heat Island effect) or bad instrument siting. Very, very few stations have consistent records, with relatively untouched siting. The ones that do? Well, they don't show the AGW trend that the others do... and the response by AGW scientists is to adjust the ones that aren't showing the increase (AKA "throwing out the good data so the bad data looks better").

      Try this site, for a bit of data that will shock you...

      http://www.surfacestations.org/

      You do not take into account how that data is used and verified. A quick search presents convincing skeptical arguments that these measurements are still reliable as a whole, as they show the same corroborating trends whether they're urban or rural, or lumped into random groups (which would emphasize any inaccuracies from placement of stations):
      https://skepticalscience.com/s...
      https://skepticalscience.com/B...
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?... (5 min video -- UQx DENIAL101x 2.4.1.1v2 Building a robust temperature record)

    18. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From reading the fine article (or rather, looking at the pictures in it), the guy who "sank" into "melted" tarmac actually fell into a sinkhole underneath a section of tarmac that was clearly a patch where an excavation had previously taken place.

      A real melting tarmac would be like what happened in northern Queensland, Australia during the week: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-05/melting-road-in-far-north-queensland/9942800 (Most likely caused by faulty materials.)

    19. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by sjames · · Score: 1

      There may have been a void under the tarmac, but it still had to be pretty damned soft for him to step through it. Likewise in the Queensland incident, there's only so faulty tarmac can be. Again, it had to be pretty damned hot for that to happen.

    20. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by Layzej · · Score: 1

      What if the objective was to create hype about record temperatures in order to advance a political agenda? Then where would we locate our instruments?

      In that case use the satellite record which shows a warming trend greater than the surface station record.

    21. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GP was clearly joking...

    22. Re: Ouargla, Algeria by julianp · · Score: 1

      Actually, "normal climate variability" or "a heat wave" explains it nicely.

      High daytime temps are NOT part of the catastrophic AGW prediction set, you know. The theory is that NIGHTTIME temps will increase, not daytime, so the overall average goes up.

      And when they talk about "consistently higher" temps, they're literally talking about fractions of a degree in most cases.

      By the way - there have been a few surveys of weather stations, and the vast majority of them have problems, mostly caused by either encroaching cities (the Urban Heat Island effect) or bad instrument siting. Very, very few stations have consistent records, with relatively untouched siting. The ones that do? Well, they don't show the AGW trend that the others do... and the response by AGW scientists is to adjust the ones that aren't showing the increase (AKA "throwing out the good data so the bad data looks better").

      Try this site, for a bit of data that will shock you...

      http://www.surfacestations.org/

      This critique of weather stations used in the instrumental temp record is pretty tired at this point. Berkeley Earth already addressed the issue of station selection bias extensively and built a new record from a complete overhaul of the station selection methodology. Dr. Muller began the instrument record reconstruction project as a climate skeptic and as a result of his own research, changed his mind about AGW. Perhaps his paper will be enough evidence to change yours: http://static.berkeleyearth.or...

      If you're trying to reject the theory of AGW, at a bare minimum you need to be providing a comprehensive general circulation model that can explain even half of present warming in the absence of forcing from anthropogenic gases. Especially given the amount of negative forcing from aerosols in the troposphere and the current level of solar irradiance.

    23. Re: Ouargla, Algeria by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Dr. Muller began the instrument record reconstruction project as a climate skeptic and as a result of his own research, changed his mind about AGW.

      That's not quite the case. He was on board with AGW, but then when Climategate hit he saw some shoddy science that gave him pause for concern.

      I was initially hopeful when he started his project, but I became soured when it became a giant fund-raising effort as well as involving nepotism (his daughter).

      Also, glancing at the paper, is there an explanation that explains the temperature rise from the 1750-1850 temperature average to the higher temps in 1850-1950? Is that from carbon dioxide? If not, what is the explanation?

      What caused the Earth to warm and sea levels to rise about 400 feet in the last 10,000 years?

      Something else to consider: the predicted rise in temperature due to the direct effects of carbon dioxide is modest. Most of the rise is from hypothesized cloud formation, which is uncertain.

    24. Re: Ouargla, Algeria by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      What caused the Earth to warm and sea levels to rise [nasa.gov] about 400 feet in the last 10,000 years?

      For most of that period the Earth did not warm, in fact it got cooler. But large areas of ice take a long time to melt. If you get a drink at 1C, and put an ice cube in it, the ice cube will melt, even as the temperature of the drink falls. Obviously, in the case of increased sea level, we are talking about ice on land melting, not just sea ice. The warming occurred from 21000 to 10000 years ago, roughly (some brief reversions excepted), and then cooled from 8000 years ago until 200 years ago.

    25. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by q_e_t · · Score: 1

      The data is available for download.

    26. Re: Ouargla, Algeria by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What caused the Earth to warm and sea levels to rise about 400 feet in the last 10,000 years?

      From your own FA, the end of an ice age. The peak of the ice age had sea levels dropping well below 'average', so as the ice age ended the sea levels rose.

    27. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by cirby · · Score: 1

      Actually, tarmac can be really faulty, like when you don't have any support under it. Asphalt is great under compression, but you can literally break it with your hands if it's under torsion without support.

      The "Queensland incident" happened during the winter there (parts of Australia are suffering under record cold right now). Someone either mixed too much solvent into the tar when they were making the asphalt in cool weather, or they just had a bad batch of materials.

      Does it bother you when your "it's only isolated incidents" comment just adds another case of false AGW evidence?

    28. Re: Ouargla, Algeria by Raenex · · Score: 1

      You didn't answer the question. What caused the Earth to warm? Saying it was the end of an ice age is just rephrasing the question as an answer.

    29. Re: Ouargla, Algeria by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      What caused the Earth to warm?

      Milankovitch cycles. Small change in position of the Earth relative to the Sun.

    30. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by sjames · · Score: 1

      Not really, since it's a spit in the bucket compared to thousands of reading all over the world. Does it bother you when someone tries to explain away a record summer with "someone must have parked an ice cream truck next to THE thermometer"?

      Note, Australia has been having awfully warm winters of late including a recorded high of 39C last year in August.

    31. Re: Ouargla, Algeria by julianp · · Score: 1

      That's not quite the case. He was on board with AGW, but then when Climategate hit he saw some shoddy science that gave him pause for concern.

      I was initially hopeful when he started his project, but I became soured when it became a giant fund-raising effort as well as involving nepotism (his daughter).

      Also, glancing at the paper, is there an explanation that explains the temperature rise from the 1750-1850 temperature average to the higher temps in 1850-1950? Is that from carbon dioxide? If not, what is the explanation?

      What caused the Earth to warm and sea levels to rise about 400 feet in the last 10,000 years?

      Something else to consider: the predicted rise in temperature due to the direct effects of carbon dioxide is modest. Most of the rise is from hypothesized cloud formation, which is uncertain.

      You're arguing over semantics. He was skeptical in the years prior to completing the Berkeley Earth analysis and was not upon completion. He has stated this himself in numerous interviews. I personally know multiple colleagues of his so I feel quite confident in my assertion that he was skeptical about AGW and now is not.

      I'm not sure that whether or not his daughter worked for him has anything to do with the empirical evidence concerning AGW.

      Warming during the first half of the 20th century is likely due to a combination of natural climatic variability (namely solar irradiance and volcanism) and anthropogenic factors (burning of fossil fuels that began ramping up during the industrial revolution). Gradual warming since the dawn of the Holocene is pretty well understood as being a function of the Milankovitch cycles. Are you suggesting that because climate has changed due to natural variation in the past, it's therefore impossible that humans are causing a meaningful change in the planetary energy budget? I'm not really following your line of reasoning so just checking.

      The models have generally under-estimated temperature rise rather than the reverse. Recent research suggests cloud feedback may be stronger than anticipated and in fact result in greater warming. It's also important to point out that the CH4 hydrate feedback in the East Siberian Arctic Shelf is not incorporated into models and will possibly exacerbate warming in ways that the models don't account for. So, while it's true that there is variability in processes, scientists (especially the IPCC synthetis) has tended to be demonstrably conservative in the RCP projections. Given that the 1.5C/2C RCP are already pushing the limits of what may be "safe" upper limits for human civilization, it probably makes sense to be pragmatic and take them seriously -- especially if there's even a 5% chance that warming may actually exceed those numbers given other feedbacks.

    32. Re: Ouargla, Algeria by Raenex · · Score: 1
    33. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All lies - exactly as we who know, know. God didn't create a Universe that His creations could monkey with.

      "God didn't create a Universe"

      Short, to the point, and true. Keep it as simple as possible please.

    34. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by skoskav · · Score: 1

      Oh, uh... So was I. Yes.

    35. Re:Ouargla, Algeria by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a bit of bad data.

      The measurement was next to, and downwind of, a jet aircraft parking area.

      The real temperature was probably several degrees cooler at that point. Not even close to a real record.

      Ditto for one in Scotland: they recorded "record high heat" exactly when - of all things - an ice cream truck was parked right next to the weather station for an extended period. Running engine + multiple coolers = a lot of extra heat right on top of the thermometer. They already downgraded that one.

      Basically, most of the "records" we've been seeing lately are a measurement of Urban Heat Island encroachment and bad station siting, not higher overall temperatures.

      (A tip: if you're going to measure temperature trends, don't put vehicles and buildings right next to your instruments...)

      Perhaps idiot fucking newbies like you should learn the difference between "anecdote" and "data" before you try and post with the big boys?

  13. Re: Oh, good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's the corporations that are doing it. They're also the ones who corrupted and undermined our democracies.

  14. To the hottest point ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The planet Earth will continue being warm due to the damn actions of the humans.

    The humans didn't care this planet and will pay the consequences.

    Over 50 Celsius, some humans won't be supported (will be killed by this warm).
    Over 60 Celsius, a majority of humans won't be supported.
    Over 70 Celsius, there will be very few survivors.

    There are not easy water for everybody.

  15. What I really want... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...is for people to recognize that all of the fancy carbon trading schemes and other nonsense has to end. This isn't about economic fairness - it's about fundamental survival of the human race. We need more research into thorium reactors, more alternative power and cutting down all carbon emissions regardless of source once and for all.

    1. Re:What I really want... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >We need more research into thorium reactors: Chinese engineers are on it. Cost for US is MSRP+25% for US.

    2. Re:What I really want... by ClickOnThis · · Score: 0

      >We need more research into thorium reactors: Chinese engineers are on it. Cost for US is MSRP+25% for US.

      Not just the Chinese. Canadians have been working on Thorium reactors too, so the US can just ... uh ...

      Never mind.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
  16. Fake news ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just wait for it.

    1. Re:Fake news ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot to say it in German - Lugenpresse (false press). The Nazis said exactly what you are saying, and they ended badly. You will too.

    2. Re:Fake news ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it is. When record cold temperatures are being set, the climate change brigade come charging out with "BUT WEATHER ISN'T CLIMATE! THIS DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING" but when it goes the other way, somehow it's proof that the world is heating out of control. You can't win.

  17. Deal with it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is pretty obvious nothing is going to be done to slow GW so how about instead we focus on dealing with it. This summary reads like a nah nah nah, see we were right gloat which helps nothing.

  18. Re:No way by atomicalgebra · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually he is quoting Ralph Wiggum. The original quote was "me fail English. That's unpossible."

  19. garbage science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The purpose of worrying about climate change has to do with human habitility and not with your straw man of a desire for global stasis. There is also no principle that hot periods must be balanced by an equal amount of cold periods.

    1. Re:garbage science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oddly enough, cutting the world's population down by 80% would have a huge impact on climate change. Bring on the heat.

    2. Re:garbage science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There may not have been billions of humans, but there were billions of buffalo, millions of blue whales, trillions of fish and small birds.

    3. Re: garbage science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately it won't be the climate-denying, resource-wasting USAians who suffer. It will be the poor, as usual.

    4. Re:garbage science by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      The idea of balance is a philosophy not science.
      We don’t have antigravity to oppose gravity.
      The mass of proton is much larger then the electron. There seems to be more matter in the universe then antimatter.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re:garbage science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There may not have been billions of humans, but there were billions of buffalo, millions of blue whales, trillions of fish and small birds.

      Blue whales and buffalo with cars, power plants, iPhones and politicians? Who knew?

    6. Re:garbage science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The idea of balance is a philosophy not science.

      The mathematical idea of "balance" [as in symmetry] has brought us to this point in physics. Matter and antimatter are concepts derived from the breaking of some 'balance' [symmetry].

    7. Re:garbage science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Symmetry isn't "balance". The existence of matter/antimatter comes from observation, not from math.

    8. Re: garbage science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But people take the idea of symmetry too literally and assume it applies on the macro scale. Probably they are magical thinkers that believe in intelligent design and other superstitions.

  20. Lets Hope That Climate Is A Stable System! by dryriver · · Score: 2

    There are lots of studies estimating just how bad climate change may get if global temperatures go up by X degrees, or Y degrees, or Z degrees by the year 2050, or 2100 or beyond. One problem with these predictive studies, however, is that nobody actually KNOWS with any certainty how climate will behave once you cross a certain temperature treshold that may exist and that we may not be aware of at all. Some experts say "As long as we can keep warming below 2 degrees C by the year 2100, the worst effects should be mitigated". Except that a climate system this huge and this complex and potentially this poorly understood cannot be accurately simulated on any existing supercomputer we have anywhere in the world today. We may find that in just a few years - maybe 2025, maybe 2030, maybe 2035 - we cross an "invisible temperature line" after which seriously catastrophic weather events start to occur all over the world with a severity and ferocity that nobody thought was possible, and that nobody can do anything whatsoever to mitigate, unless someone invents an actually working "weather control" technology in the next 10 years or so. Meteorologists can usually predict large scale weather events/problems a few days ahead of time today. But if the behavior of the entire system shifts and destabilizes in idiosyncratic ways, you may find that really scary weather events materialize in places where they have never happened before, and without anyone being able to foresee where and when the event will occur. Imagine a world where on a perfectly normal day, a Superstorm suddenly builds, and you have maybe 30 minutes of warning time before it hits where you are.

    --
    Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
    1. Re:Lets Hope That Climate Is A Stable System! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One problem with these predictive studies, however, is that nobody actually KNOWS with any certainty

      Why thank you captain fucking obvious, I thought everything written was a source of absolute truth.

    2. Re:Lets Hope That Climate Is A Stable System! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One problem with these predictive studies, however, is that nobody actually KNOWS with any certainty how climate will behave once you cross a certain temperature treshold that may exist and that we may not be aware of at all.

      Climate is optimum in the sense that it supports the most number of people for the least amount of work in a reasonable quality of life. When we drift from that we risk the future of human civilization. Now that doesn't automatically mean a little warming is the end of the world. It might affect that net condition positively, but it is an insane risk with your one and only habitable planet.

      Extra heat is extra energy being stored on the planet, which leads to the potential for more extreme behaviour. Of course some things have limits such as how much carbon dioxide the oceans and such can process. Once we exceed the recovery ability of the system affects may be more dramatic.

      Put another way, in a given set of conditions in winter it takes X BTU an hour to maintain the same internal temperature. Anything above that cause the temperature to increase till there is enough imbalance that the outflow again balances the inflow. With a planet, I'm thinking we are only dissipating heat through radiative emission to space, so literally it is what thermal radiation is emitted from the planet. Presumably that is what the extra CO2 is reflecting back.

      The difference in the house and the planet is somewhat interesting because the house can use physical transfer of the energy to the outside air, whereas the planet cannot. X amount of energy comes in, Y amount is added in the form of combustion, nuclear, etc, and Z amount is returned to space, but Z is less than before due to the extra CO2 and such. One of these days I really have to study the actual math, but either way, even if everything is not 100% understood, if you can detect a trend in the wrong direction, it is in civilization's benefit to at least try not to make it worse.

    3. Re:Lets Hope That Climate Is A Stable System! by dryriver · · Score: 1

      I meant something slightly different. I meant that as global temperatures rise, we may see really strange and extreme new behavior in the weather that has never been seen or predicted before. Lets say that City X can cope fine with Y amount of rainfall per hour. Lets say that City X has not experienced more rainfall than Y in the last 200 years also. Lets also say that given City X's geographic location, experts predict that the WORST possible rainfall City X may experience is no more than 1.5 x Y per hour. What happens when City X actually gets hammered with 6 x Y rainfall per hour for 5 hours straight one fateful day? That may seem unlikely TODAY - the models may tell you its not going to happen - but may not be quite as unlikely 15 years from now. Weather is a complex system. Once that system starts to go off-balance, nobody really knows how it will start to behave.

      --
      Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
    4. Re:Lets Hope That Climate Is A Stable System! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weather is a complex system. Once that system starts to go off-balance, nobody really knows how it will start to behave.

      I was trying to explain it from an energy point of view, but yah, lots of second order effects. Some of it you can simulate with simulations, and that improves all the time. Like with whether the simulations will likely show a range of outcomes with some more likely than others.

      One thing that is not a horrible idea, is if you are building a house, make sure you get the foundation right. That goes without saying anyway, but if in doubt, dig down another foot, and by all means get the foundation draining right, with high quality rigid pipe and lots of rock. In other words make sure your foundation is stable, even against reasonable levels of flooding and freezing. I'm building an extensive addition onto my house. One thing I'm doing is including 1" EPS foam and then covering it with 4'x8' fiber cement panels, plus some decorative elements so it looks nice. (Think board and batting.) EPS foam is cheap, but you only get R4 per inch rather than R5. It also costs about half. Fiber cement is pretty durable. If you wanted to go the extra mile, put some vertical 1x4's behind the fiber cement as a rainscreen, though by limiting it to 1" of exterior foam I don't have to.

      Basically you don't have to spend a fortune to make a house a bit more likely to survive the elements and maybe the future. Also, don't put your furnace in the attic if you can avoid it. Too much risk of air leaks and decompression of the building envelope. (If you by chance have a small radon issue and you decompress your house, well now you have a bigger radon issue, but mostly you'll just pull air from outside to replace it.) Finally make your house airtight in the living space. R-13 insulation + 1" eps (R4) is a reasonable minimum for a wall assembly. Cellulose insulation is certainly the most efficient for the dollar. It also slows air infiltration and doesn't burn easily. Of course if your cost per square foot is crazy, then you could possibly do something like a SIP home, so you don't sacrifice square feet.

    5. Re:Lets Hope That Climate Is A Stable System! by King_TJ · · Score: 1

      Well, sure .... that's ONE possible outcome (wild, random weather swings with short notice). I don't know that there's really any more evidence we'll get that than there is the climate will stabilize at a higher overall temperature?

      The "climate change deniers" are really the least of the problem, IMO. Some people deny the Earth is round. Others deny we ever went to the moon. Doesn't really make a difference, since people holding those opinions are a minority who aren't involved in any science, engineering or technology related fields actually DOING things requiring knowing those facts.

      The whole question of what to make of the observations of overall warming is the important one. And as you say, the supercomputer models really just wind up conflicting each other and providing guesses and incomplete data, right now. Personally, I think politics needs to stay out of the climate change issue until we have actual facts and workable solutions, if indeed they're needed. Too much fear-mongering going on right now -- which leads to government wasting money to try to appease worked-up people.

      Switching to alternative forms of energy to burning fossil fuels? We're getting there already. But the BEST way to do that is showing people reasons it benefits them directly. If you can't sell someone solar panels and give them a true cost savings using them, then it's not really the right technology solution for them. Just shoving, "Do it to save the planet!" down their throat isn't the right way to fix any of this.

    6. Re:Lets Hope That Climate Is A Stable System! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately some climate models predict a bifurcation between our current atmospheric system (hadley cell, jet streams) and a completely different system with one large climate cell from the equator to the poles. This seems to happen once the temperature differential between the equator and the poles becomes small enough :(

      I.E. the change from one stable state to the other will be fast and will cause unknown number of problems

         

    7. Re:Lets Hope That Climate Is A Stable System! by religionofpeas · · Score: 2

      If you can't sell someone solar panels and give them a true cost savings using them,

      The problem is that some of the cost of fossil fuels (i.e. climate change) is externalized, paid by everyone else, instead of just the person responsible for their use. If we put a tax on fuels depending on how much carbon they produce, we could get a fairer decision on price. That's a job for politicians.

  21. Haitis Gotta Hate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are what they are named.

  22. I've lived in SoCal since 1960 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Heat waves are normal. 116 is not unheard of in the inland areas.

    1. Re:I've lived in SoCal since 1960 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heat waves are normal. 116 is not unheard of in the inland areas.

      I've lived in Dublin since 1994, and 3 days without rain is(was) unheard of, never mind 3 weeks. Heat waves are not normal.

  23. Gulf stream is in trouble by seoras · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm Scottish and my father was, until recently retiring, a farmer. In the last decade of his farming he struggled to make any hay in the summer.
    It had previously been tricky but do-able in the 4 decades prior to that. If you farm you notice climate change.
    Now it's like it's "flipped" completely. Making hay this year should be easy if it hasn't dried out too much and the grass has grown.

    The bit that's missing in this post is that the UK, and Scotland in particular, had one of the coldest winters on record. More snow than they've seen in decades.
    It's as if the weather that north eastern Europe normally gets has shifted over west.
    The gulf stream that normally warms N.Europe in winters and keeps it wet in summer is in flux.
    I fully expect the UK will get a freezing winter in return for this recording setting summer if this continues.

    Take a look at the rain and flooding in France and Spain that's also going on right now. Very unusual and abnormal.

    Of course it's all "fake news" to those who feel this is an Inconvenient Truth.

    1. Re:Gulf stream is in trouble by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 0

      A colder winter than normal is irrelevant though. You correctly pointed out that's due to gulf stream changes. Whereas the heating is worldwide.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    2. Re:Gulf stream is in trouble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what drives the changes in the gulf stream? Temperature? Wind? A herd of Unicorns? Just curious.

    3. Re:Gulf stream is in trouble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Increased atmospheric energy, which comes from heating. It pushes the variability of the gulf stream (and the jet streams). The hotter we get, the more wild the shifts will get. Buckle up Dorothy, you're in for a wild ride.

    4. Re:Gulf stream is in trouble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Take a look at the rain and flooding in France and Spain that's also going on right now.

      I'm a Spaniard currently visiting in Grenoble (France) and there is no "abnormal rain and flooding" going on right now in either country. In fact, what is "going on" is that last week we broke the heat record for July in Grenoble, which was previously set in the 1950s.

      There are trees growing in what used to be permafrost areas less than a few decades ago.

      Very unusual and abnormal.Of course it's all "fake news" to those who feel this is an Inconvenient Truth.

      Sadly no. This is the new normal.

    5. Re:Gulf stream is in trouble by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Same in Montana. We made a new all-time total snow record, tied a bunch of cold records, and had up to 5x normal spring precip before suddenly 100F summer. We'll probably have an abrupt and nasty winter.

      All these new heat records suddenly evaporate if you include 1936, when North Dakota peaked over 100F for over a month. Or, say, the Medieval Warm Period.

      Also, lately one of the weather stations that was "setting records" was found to be in the refrigeration exhaust path of an ice cream truck. (Yes, really.)

      If you look at long-term raw data, the trend is actually for slight cooling.

      And cooling is not good; cooler means crop failures and famine, as history amply demonstrates.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  24. Sorry, flame bait by ukoda · · Score: 1, Informative

    I'm reading that as saw 124.3 degrees and though holy fuck, that was on Earth, not some other planet? My browser width was just right (wrong) that real number, 51.3 Celsius, was on the next line. That sounds more real, yea, just that one country on the planet who still donesn't know how to measure temperature yet. Guess I should be glad they bother to put Celsius at all. Wait spoke too soon, only 25% of the temperatures had conversions. I'm going to dig out a conversion tool just to read this, nope, have whinge instead.

    Ok, I get it "The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it." but at least put some F's after those numbers so we know they are USA only numbers, not international standard!

    Yea, go on score me down as a troll, my karma score can handle it and after decades of dealing with this rubbish I feel the need to bitch occasionally.

    1. Re:Sorry, flame bait by burtosis · · Score: 3, Funny

      My car gets forty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it." but at least put some F's after those numbers so we know they are USA only numbers, not international standard!

      You realize forty rods per hogsheads is 0.0362 leagues per 9684 pony or roughly 3.7 microleagues/pony. You must have a ton of ponies to get mileage that bad, sounds like my kind of car.

    2. Re:Sorry, flame bait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a real cunt.

    3. Re:Sorry, flame bait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea blame everyone but yourself for not reading an entire sentence before whining. The number in parenthesis has a C so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine the former number was in F. Also, if an article's primary numbers are one unit of measure it is usually assumed the other numbers will be too. Use your brain before crying to announce that you don't have good reading comprehension.

    4. Re:Sorry, flame bait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      at least put some F's after those numbers so we know they are USA only numbers, not international standard!

      It's a US website. Do you want the New York Times website to do that too?

    5. Re:Sorry, flame bait by gordguide · · Score: 1

      The technical conversion is a little daunting for the math challenged (5/9 or 9/5 +/- 32) but the back of the envelope math is easy ... double it and add 30 (or to go from F to C, subtract 30 first, then divide by 2).

      So 30C is 2x 30 + 30 or 90. Actual conversion? 86F
      Or 90F is 90 - 30 = 60 /2 = 30C. Actual conversion? 32.2C

      Close enough.

    6. Re:Sorry, flame bait by Cederic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's a nerd site, if you're not going to use Celcius then at least use fucking Kelvin.

    7. Re:Sorry, flame bait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The zero on the Kelvin scale is a fantasy like the AGW.

    8. Re:Sorry, flame bait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Conversion isn't the issue - it's indicating that conversion is even necessary in the first place.

    9. Re:Sorry, flame bait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The zero on the Kelvin scale is a fantasy like the AGW.

      One is a theoretical bound, and the other is a fact of modern life. Neither is a fantasy.

  25. I CAN'T HEAR YOU!! by Snotnose · · Score: 0

    I LIVE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. MY AIR CONDITIONER, WHICH I RUN 2-3 DAYS A YEAR IN AUGUST/SEPTEMBER, HAS BEEN ON HIGH FOR 2 DAYS NOW!

    SPEAK UP, I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER MY FREEDUM AIR!!

    1. Re:I CAN'T HEAR YOU!! by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      Freedom Air! I like that. I recommend we start calling all ACs "Freedom Airs"!

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    2. Re:I CAN'T HEAR YOU!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The jokes on him, he lives in SoCal... Wait until he gets his $900 electricity bill, along with the $300/mo water bill.

    3. Re:I CAN'T HEAR YOU!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Explains the sudden rise in CO2 levels the past couple of days.

    4. Re:I CAN'T HEAR YOU!! by amoeba1911 · · Score: 2

      This is actually part of a cycle: As temperature heats up, more people use their air conditioners which heat up the air even more, power central has to burn more fuel. It's one of many feedback loops that ensure climate change inevitable. The only thing you can do is prepare for it.

    5. Re:I CAN'T HEAR YOU!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why $900, is he using solar roofing and battery packs from the Leader of the Humanity to Mars?

  26. cranking up the AC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ahhhhhh, that's better.

  27. Re:Fake News by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Well, yes, they put the sensors right outside the White House, oblivious to the effect all the hot air produced there would have.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  28. Mommy, did we break the planet? by shanen · · Score: 0

    To put ReneR's point more clearly, when you are investigating a crime, it often helps to ask "Who profits?" Unfortunately, the murder victim in question may be the earth, and if so, the REAL answer is no one.

    Actually, I don't think climate change alone will cause a human-extinction-level catastrophe. I even think there would be human survivors after a nuclear war, though most of them would be sorry to have survived. My money says we exterminate ourselves with a genetically engineered bioweapon. Costs have declined so rapidly that most countries and larger corporations could afford to create it, but pretty soon it will be within the reach of an individual madman, and we've never had a sufficient shortage of them.

    In Japan the current effect of the broken planet is flooding. The description translates something like "rain and flooding unlike anything seen in decades". Even with the warnings (and they were ALL over the news), over 40 people have been confirmed dead. So far. Not over yet.

    (Oh yeah. And massive damages, but no economic estimates yet.)

    Even if we humans only helped a little in the breaking of the planet, why are we continuing to make it worse? We definitely know some things we could do to not make it worse, but we can't even implement the soft Paris Accord properly...

    Mostly because the Koch brothers think they are profiting. Not really, because they are going to die soon, and it doesn't matter how many toys they died with.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  29. Re:No way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually he is quoting Ralph Wiggum. The original quote was "me fail English. That's unpossible."

    Actually, Unpossible is the sanctioned word in Newspeak.

  30. White mankind extinction is near. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Todos seremos morenos bajo el Sol.

    (there is not english-translation of the above phrase)

    1. Re:White mankind extinction is near. by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      Todos seremos morenos bajo el Sol.

      (there is not english-translation of the above phrase)

      Google translate says it means "We will all be dark under the Sun."

      Seems to me that a creepy irony survived the translation.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    2. Re:White mankind extinction is near. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck you, you wetback piece of shit.

      We will wipe you off the face of the earth when the time comes.

  31. Not begining by tomxor · · Score: 1

    As the U.K. begins a two-week heat wave

    What are you talking about ? it's been two weeks already! and it looks to keep on going.

  32. Burn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Leg in melted tarmac? That sounds like a second or third degree burn. (But the guy's leg doesn't look burned.)

    I wonder how hot the tarmac was.

    1. Re:Burn by PPH · · Score: 1

      Probably cold patch asphalt.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Burn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well you saw the photos in the article so you also saw that he actually fell into a sinkhole underneath a patch in the surface.

      Improper compaction of the backfill is the cause, but that doesn't fit the political narrative.

  33. Re: Oh, good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But corporations are people too. Or people are corporations. I forget which. Anyway, corporations are better than people because they're not constrained by morals.

  34. Translation to real units? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is this in units I can understand? This strange obsolete stuff is not used round here.

    1. Re:Translation to real units? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since you can't figure it out. Hand in your nerd card.

    2. Re:Translation to real units? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How so? Seems the poster should hand in their nerd card for using bullshit units instead of standard ones.

  35. I didn't know they had denialist faggots in NZ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, so they have Republican faggot denialists in New Zealand also? What for? Who is paying them to be stupid?

  36. Thank you Mr Gore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it wasn't for Al Gore inventing the internet and global warming, we would not be reading about this climate event on the internet! What a hero that man is, inconveniant but still a hero!

  37. Yeah, except no. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They aren't.

    Go try to superimpose your fantasy futures on someone else.

  38. It is WINTER in New Zealand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is WINTER in New Zealand.

    1. Re:It is WINTER in New Zealand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's make more dumbest hemisphere jokes as actual denial of reality goes on all around you about the valid scientific factual basis for manmade warming. Except JOKES ARE FUNNY, so start there eh backwards toilet people? Oy.

      Fuck your winter! You're lucky if you see another 50 as a country. Laugh it up now bogan.

  39. Fallout, isn't just a game. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If there's anything interesting long term, it's how this will affect architecture*, and urban design**. Not to mention utility grids, and power sources, after all air conditioning takes a lot of power.

    *Houses and apartments will be built differently.
    **reducing the heat island effect.

  40. Hey! McFly!... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The only people I have seen deny climate change are the AGW idiots who think the climate has ever been stable, and who demand global action to try to put it into some sort of climatic stasis.

    The rest of us have always accepted the SCIENTIFIC FACTS that:
    (a) The Earth's climate has always changed and always will.
    (b) The Earth's climate is EXTREMELY COMPLEX and cannot currently be accurately modeled in a computer.
    (c) While humans, like EVERYTHING ELSE, have SOME effects on climate, there are plenty of other causes of change including many we probably do not know/understand. Some of these other sources, like the sun, have a far greater impact than humans.
    (d) The Earth has been both significantly hotter and extremely cold many times in the past before there were enough humans to have had ANY effect on any of those previously very extreme changes.

    We ALSO embrace things like the laws of economics, the record of human history, and accept basic human nature - so we:
    (a) Believe humans will continue to advance technologically and thus we as a species become better able to deal with climate change with every passing decade, making it retrograde to go nuts trying to offset it now - even if we could, and if we could afford it, and if its happening.
    (b) Know that far more people are dying today from other sources than from climate, and that reducing some of the deaths and suffering of people TODAY is achieved using some of those fossil fuels people like you want eliminated or made too expensive because YOU claim it will save some future persons from some imagined future horror.
    (c) WE actually believe a pet theory should be PROVEN before we implement policies that have a negative impact on the lives of millions of people in the name of "solving" the supposed problem. In fact, we'd like to not only see the problem PROVEN to exist, but we also want to see that the proposed solution will actually work, will be the most cost-effective option, and will have the least impact upon the lives and liberty of the people who are alive today.

    So... who are the REAL "deniers"? You guys need to drop the quasi-religious fervor-driven propaganda and start persuading with REAL SCIENCE and not with slogans, bitter accusations, suppression of persons with opposed opinions, rigging of the peer review and paper publishing business, data hiding, data manipulation, etc. Your side could make a tiny start by dropping the "denier" and "paid for by big oil" accusations and not hurling expletives like ornery pubescent teenagers.

    1. Re: Hey! McFly!... by mSparks43 · · Score: 1

      just beautiful, im keeping this comment for another day. thank you.

    2. Re:Hey! McFly!... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, by YELLING random WORDS like PROVEN and REAL I am convinced.

      Nothing to see here.

    3. Re:Hey! McFly!... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Science supports the climate change theory, not the denier's theory. I'm sorry that reality hurts your feelings, but reality honestly doesn't care about your feelings.

      You may try this simple experiment at home to see if the greenhouse effect exists: put a thermometer inside a clear plastic bag outside in the sun, and then put the bag over your head. As you remove oxygen and add CO2, the thermometer will show an increase in temperature. Thus the proof that the greenhouse effect exists, and applied to a global system, climate change exists. Make sure to remove the bag before you suffocate so you can apologize to the logical thinkers who figured this out a long time ago and continue to make accurate predictions that constantly prove to be correct.

      Or if you are also a flat-earther (as I've noticed almost every AGW skeptic also seems to be), you can keep the bag over your head and raise the world's collective IQ a little as a parting gift.

    4. Re:Hey! McFly!... by dywolf · · Score: 1

      usual denialist talking points.

      (a) The Earth's climate has always changed and always will.

      Not this fast; the delineation between natural change and what we're seeing is readily apparent.

      (b) The Earth's climate is EXTREMELY COMPLEX and cannot currently be accurately modeled in a computer.

      False.

      (c) While humans, like EVERYTHING ELSE, have SOME effects on climate, there are plenty of other causes of change including many we probably do not know/understand. Some of these other sources, like the sun, have a far greater impact than humans.

      A) Sun: False. We are currently in a solar minimum. If the sun were driving it we would be cooling
      B) Volcanoes: False. Volcanoes only emit ~ 300 million tonnes of CO2 per year, LESS THAN 1% of what humans emit per year (which is in excess of 40 billion tonnes annually).
      C) The implication that we don't know everything that goes into climate: False.

      I will state it clearly: Human activity is the primary driver of current changes in climate we see. This is indisputable.

      (d) The Earth has been both significantly hotter and extremely cold many times in the past before there were enough humans to have had ANY effect on any of those previously very extreme changes.

      Irrelevant because (a) the current biosphere of life did not exist at those times. Current life evolved for current changes over the extremely long terms that
      (b) Those changes occurred over.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  41. FAKE NEWS: Melting Tarmac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have seen asphalt melt and even bubble. If the tarmac has melted, his leg would have shown visible burns. That tarmac did not melt. This is FAKE NEWS.

  42. Ignore 6 Billion yeas of history and OBEY! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have very accurate satellite-based temperature data for the Earth for the past 50 years (approx). Before that the data is less accurate since it was taken by humans using mercury thermometers at spotty locations around the globe (various ships at sea, airport weather stations, train stations, cities, and so forth) going back a little more than 200 years. Before that, the temperature data records are far spottier and they're mostly for Europe.

    200 years of data out of 6,000,000,000 years is a statistically insignificant sample.

    In this context, "hottest ever recorded" and "coldest ever recorded" are sensational headlines meant to mislead the ignorant, i.e. tools of propaganda.

  43. Tsk... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No amount of funding the scientists might be able to lay their hands on would solve the main problem: how to make a denier understand and stop being an a*ole?

    Wait, would they stop being idiots if paid to not be?

    Captcha: "totally"

  44. sinking leg? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I've lived in the US South or Hawaii my whole life. Legs don't sink into the tarmac. Does the UK use toffee for paving? The worst I've seen is that the bus lanes get pressed a bit. People don't just sink. No way is the UK hot like it is where I live.

    1. Re:sinking leg? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've lived in the US South or Hawaii my whole life. Legs don't sink into the tarmac. Does the UK use toffee for paving? The worst I've seen is that the bus lanes get pressed a bit. People don't just sink. No way is the UK hot like it is where I live.

      Water bugs walk on water, it doesn't mean the water is frozen solid into ice. It's the combination of temperature and PSI, not either or. Try high heels, or roller blades. Both will sink into tarmac in the middle of a hot day, even at NYC latitudes.

    2. Re:sinking leg? by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Dude got unlucky standing over a sinkhole. He's lucky it didn't collapse and take him down, into a hole and leave him there for a couple of days. Had the same happen a few years after they repaved the street my parents lived on, they had two sinkholes. One at the end of their driveway where a neighbors car got a tire stuck. The other near a storm drain, where they didn't properly close up one of the feeders. Which washed out all of the sand, gravel and dirt under it. A group of teenagers was walking by, and it gave way, luckily they only went knee deep.

      Now here's the question you should ask. If you live in an area that has copious amounts of limestone, where's the next one going to open up?

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  45. Wimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I live in the UAE. I'd love to go to Montreal or Death Valley to cool down.

  46. Sparking brush fires? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And Southern California has also experienced record-setting temperatures "well above 110 degrees across the region," sparking brush fires that burned homes in two counties.

    Unless the heat is pushing 450 Fahrenheit the heat likely isn't "sparking" any brush fires. What's easier to believe is that the heat causes vegetation to be dry so that a spark from some means other than the heat has ample fuel to catch fire and grow.

  47. If posters *also* used Celsius and kilometers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, I could do the conversion, I know. I just wish I didn't have to. But I guess most readers are from the US or have gotten used to Farenheit and miles.

  48. Re:No way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're a dipshit, this is a slew of records all at once moron. No wonder Republicans are afraid of abortion, their mothers would end their retarded asses in the womb.

    When cancer comes for you, the world will be a better place.

  49. Someone needs to bury this faggot msparks43 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    in a fucking coal mine.

  50. Re: No way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And the old record has been revised colder just to make the current temps higher

  51. Nice warm sunny day here by gordguide · · Score: 1

    The "Heat Wave" reports about "Canada" are really about Eastern Canada, where temperatures above 28C [86F] generally cause panic of sorts, and will trigger weather warnings in Toronto.

    Out here in Western Canada (prairies and the coast) temperatures around that number get you a "it's warm out" and "enjoy the sunshine" from the TV weatherman. Today it was 32C [90F] with the Humidex at 40 [104F] and nobody blinked, nobody keeled over dead, and everyone just enjoyed the weather. I believe that is the same as the highest temperature all week in Montreal where the "heat wave death" news reports apparently come from.

    Normal temperatures in my city range from -40C [-40F] wintertime to +40C [104F] summertime air temperatures, with rare occurrences (say, 10 year highs and lows) a little beyond. The Humidex of course would be higher.

    It all comes down to what people are used to ... I remember the panic in the UK this year at the London Marathon where temperatures reached a record high of 28C [82F] and the BBC was warning about the heat and urging everyone from participants to spectators to keep hydrated.

    1. Re:Nice warm sunny day here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Out here in Western Canada (prairies and the coast) temperatures around that number get you a "it's warm out" and "enjoy the sunshine" from the TV weatherman. Today it was 32C [90F] with the Humidex at 40 [104F] and nobody blinked, nobody keeled over dead,"

      You don't live on the coast you, you dont know what you are talking about. If it was 32*c in the lower mainland today (it wasnt) people would be panicking in the streets. no one has ac here. A hot day is 26*c, and hell yeah everyone is complaining at 28. You live in the interior somewhere clearly.

    2. Re:Nice warm sunny day here by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      The difference between humidex at 40 and humidex at 50 is considerable. The higher the humidex, the less you can sweat and the less effective even a simple fan is going to be.

      Also, temperatures in the city cannot be compared to temperatures in the open fields. Any wind in the city will have been warmed so there's no fresh breeze to cool you down either, even if humidex was as low as 40. And you also get buildings all around you getting heated up by the sun all day long, so even after the sun sets, buildings are still radiating heat for hours.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
  52. Climate variability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A problem in determining whether there is a temperature trend is the variability of the weather. However, exactly this may be used to study the trend as well.

    Here is a page (in Dutch but you can look at the graphs near the bottom) showing the number temperature records registered by the Dutch meteorological institute since it started at the beginning of the previous century. For a stable climate you expect the ratio of warm records and cold records to be stable, averaging 1. You also expect the number of records to drop over time. That is not what is observed as is clear from the graphs at the bottom right. The ratio is consistently well over one and the number of heat records doesnâ(TM)t drop very much the last few decades.

    Bert

    1. Re: Climate variability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oops, forgot the link

      https://www.knmi.nl/over-het-knmi/nieuws/temperatuurrecords-tonen-opwarming-nederland

  53. And all that the POTUS is worried about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is getting permission to 'Build a Wall'. No, not to stop Mexicans and others from entering the USA but around his Irish Golf Course to stop the Atlantic Ocean and rising sea levels from stopping a few elderly white males from hitting a little ball around and paying him lots of mulah for the pleasure.

    What is the world coming to eh?
    The end is nigh.

  54. waiting for GOP knees to bend backwards by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    I keep wondering how soon we will see a GOP that has knees that bend backwards, and they speak in weird languages?

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  55. Bad for some good for others by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People that are genetically more adapted to colder climates will suffer, those who are adapted to warmer climates will thrive. This is called macro evolution. Those well adapted to the cold will naturally fight against the warming of the planet. Hence we have a large group of white liberals living in Madison Wisonson who quite rightfully believe climate change is a threat to their world. Others who aren't white could not care less, but would like to have cheap electricity.

    Your opinion on climate change largely depends on where you were born. If you were born someplace cold, you want to keep the planet cold. If you were born in a warmer climate you just want cheap energy and could not care less about about the most windmills

  56. Just What Do You Think... by rally2xs · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...you're going to do about this so-called climate change?

    The answer is, "Not a damned thing." Why? Because you can't. That is, not without widespread death from the methods you would use to combat it.

    Raise the price of fuels to astronomical levels? It'd just plunge the almost-poor into abject poverty, which is deadly. Smoking will take maybe 7 years off your life, but living in poverty will take about 10. Wanna kill a lotta people? Make 'em poor. That's what the normal, environmentalist-approach is to every question, "Money is no object" and then we get cars that cost twice as much as they should while chasing the goal of eliminating 0.0002% of the remainder of some imagined deadly pollutant. Eliminate the pollutant and save 27 people this year, and kill 100,000 from poverty. (F U!)

    The bottom line is that there's nothing you can do about this that will come out of a Congress or a Parliament. The answer for this is going to come out of a physics lab. Walking up and down in front of some legislature with your hand-lettered sign in your father-Christmas beard and sandals isn't going to do a damned thing because all they can do is create poor people by passing some expensive law, which will kill a good percentage of those newly-minted poor people.

    No, the fix for this is going to come from scientists that invent the magic battery or the magic supercapacitor that will store grid electricity or electric car electricity so that we can stop using fossil fuels. Oh, BTW, wind is not gonna be the savior, since the foundation of each of these massive wind turbines takes about 250 cubic yards of concrete, which is a huge CO2 emitter during its manufacture. While a nuke plant uses maybe 400,000 cubic yards of concrete in its containment structure, our >52,000 wind turbines amount to 13,000,000 cubic yards of concrete, minimum, for their foundations. And our 52,000 wind turbines have a combined capacity of slightly less than 8 gigawatts. That compares to the largest nuclear power station in the world that has slightly more than 8 gigawatts output. Composed of multiple nuclear reactors, I believe it is 7, that would be 2.8 million cubic yards of concrete. How many such plants does it take to run the entire USA? 302,229 megawatt-hours was the April generation, so with 24 hours in a day and 30 days in April, that is about 420 megawatts continuously. 420 megawatts / 8 megawatts per 52,000 wind turbines, assuming the wind blows 24/7/365, would be 52.5 times the 52,000 or so wind turbines we have now, which would be 2,730,0000 total wind turbines, or 2,679,500 _additional_ wind turbines to be built, except the wind doesn't blow continuously so double that for backup, so we want and additional 5.4 million wind turbines. And again, at 250 cubic yards of concrete for foundation per wind turbine, that's 5.4 X 250 = 1,350 million cubic yards of CO2 producing concrete manufacturing.

    And of course there's still PV, with solar farms as far as the eye can see. No big need for CO2 producing concrete with those, but the sun doesn't shine 24/7/365 either. Solar photovoltaic energy is only available for a fraction of the day, since there's that night bugaboo plus the occasional cloud, so we're going to need billions of them and we're going to need energy storage.

    So... really... what's the answer? A wind turbine in the frame of absolutely every outdoor photograph anyone takes within the borders of the USA, and a country probably devoid of birds that would all be killed by the whirling blades? Or solar photovoltaic "farms" in said outdoor photographs no matter where in the USA one points the camera?

    Solve those PHYSICS problems and MAYBE we could stem the production of CO2 if we can find out how to use electricity to replace a jet engine, but if we turn propellers with electric motors, we'll get propeller speeds again, back to the 1950's air travel model.

    But nobody's going to solve this by whining at legislators.

    1. Re:Just What Do You Think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kill 300 million Americans, and things will start getting better very fast. You're the plague that put 60% of the CO2 in the atmosphere, and it's your bill to foot, but you don't want to pay, but you will.

      Hopefully you'll see your kids die in poverty and bad weather.

    2. Re:Just What Do You Think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Your numbers are lacking context. The concrete used to produce wind turbines and nuclear plants is insignificant compared to the concrete used to build roads, and furthermore the CO2 produced by concrete is a 1-time construction cost that is insignificant compared to automobiles and container ships. It is also less of an effect than the 0.2 billion cubic meters of methane - equivalent to 6 billion cubic meters of CO2 - produced by cattle each year.

      Just put the solar panels in the desert. No one will notice them unless you live in Nevada or New Mexico, and there is plenty of land to supply all of US energy needs. Bury the unsightly power cables and have distributed battery plants that can keep local grids going effectively and we can do it without new physics.

    3. Re:Just What Do You Think... by rally2xs · · Score: 1

      Kill all the humans. Problem solved, no more human-produced CO2. OBTW, try killing all the Americans and that's what will happen - all humans dead, as we will use our nukes and the war will be unsurviveable on the planet. Sooo... wanna move onto the next hyperbole now?

      OK, and BTW, we manufacture stuff at LOWER CO2 output than you do. Doesn't matter who you are, you don't have the access to clean-burning natural gas that we do. If we don't manufacture it, then you'll have to manufacture it. You do it, and there will be MORE CO2 'cuz you're gonna use coal. Nope, you can't use "renewable" any better than we can right now, not to manufacture all the stuff we do. 300 million of us die? There are - what? - 3 billion people in the world, so it will be some DIFFERENT 10% of the population that will try to live at elevated standards of living that we enjoy, and if we're all dead, they'll probably move here where the natural resources are. And you'll once again get the same, or more CO2 production from whatever bunch that the North American continent supports.

      But killing all the humans is the environmental-wacko solution, as once expressed by Al Gore. He actually mused over it. Incredible.

    4. Re:Just What Do You Think... by rally2xs · · Score: 1

      And, anyway, whether you can see it or not, the solution to this is to invent and massively deploy mechanisms to suck up all the CO2 and turn it into elemental carbon and free-space oxygen. Put the oxygen back into the atmosphhere, put the carbon back into the coal mines it came from. Use solar and wind energy to do it. That's the ONLY solution to this. You can't go full-up renewable via solar and wind without dealing with the realities that they are both intermittent producers and wind emits huge CO2 in the concrete manufacture for the foundations of the turbines, and kills birds.

      Better get to work on the CO2 dissociator and sequesterer...

    5. Re:Just What Do You Think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not all the humans, just the assholes who are responsible for the climate catastrophe. That is, you and your kids. Go give the Koolaid to your kids and die from cancer, American faggot.

    6. Re:Just What Do You Think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome, time traveler from 1960! Please tell JFK to avoid Dallas for the next few years and not to worry too much about Cuba...

    7. Re:Just What Do You Think... by randomlygeneratename · · Score: 1

      It's not as simple as carbon tax => more poor people => more deaths. It shifts the stable point in the economy somewhere else, and provides market incentives to drive the costs down on clean energy sources. In the absence of those incentives, there's more than enough money to be made doing nothing about it. Sure, if one guy figures it out he will be rich, but honestly it will probably take a Manhattan project to figure it out, which is not going to happen spontaneously. Finally with any level of humane safety net, we mitigate the effects of poverty.

      Let the first part stand on its own. In my own personal opinion, what if we could give every last person on earth the greatest generation ever, and then we go extinct right after? Is that really preferable to some discomfort now, but the ultimate propagation of our species? It seems like a lot of people really think so, and I can't say they can't have that opinion, but it sounds pretty disappointing to me. Put another way, nobody's inner child would light up at that thought.

    8. Re:Just What Do You Think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...you're going to do about this so-called climate change?

      The answer is, "Not a damned thing." Why? Because you can't. That is, not without widespread death from the methods you would use to combat it.

      Raise the price of fuels to astronomical levels? It'd just plunge the almost-poor into abject poverty, which is deadly. Smoking will take maybe 7 years off your life, but living in poverty will take about 10. Wanna kill a lotta people? Make 'em poor. That's what the normal, environmentalist-approach is to every question, "Money is no object" and then we get cars that cost twice as much as they should while chasing the goal of eliminating 0.0002% of the remainder of some imagined deadly pollutant. Eliminate the pollutant and save 27 people this year, and kill 100,000 from poverty. (F U!)

      The bottom line is that there's nothing you can do about this that will come out of a Congress or a Parliament. The answer for this is going to come out of a physics lab. Walking up and down in front of some legislature with your hand-lettered sign in your father-Christmas beard and sandals isn't going to do a damned thing because all they can do is create poor people by passing some expensive law, which will kill a good percentage of those newly-minted poor people.

      No, the fix for this is going to come from scientists that invent the magic battery or the magic supercapacitor that will store grid electricity or electric car electricity so that we can stop using fossil fuels. Oh, BTW, wind is not gonna be the savior, since the foundation of each of these massive wind turbines takes about 250 cubic yards of concrete, which is a huge CO2 emitter during its manufacture. While a nuke plant uses maybe 400,000 cubic yards of concrete in its containment structure, our >52,000 wind turbines amount to 13,000,000 cubic yards of concrete, minimum, for their foundations. And our 52,000 wind turbines have a combined capacity of slightly less than 8 gigawatts. That compares to the largest nuclear power station in the world that has slightly more than 8 gigawatts output. Composed of multiple nuclear reactors, I believe it is 7, that would be 2.8 million cubic yards of concrete. How many such plants does it take to run the entire USA? 302,229 megawatt-hours was the April generation, so with 24 hours in a day and 30 days in April, that is about 420 megawatts continuously. 420 megawatts / 8 megawatts per 52,000 wind turbines, assuming the wind blows 24/7/365, would be 52.5 times the 52,000 or so wind turbines we have now, which would be 2,730,0000 total wind turbines, or 2,679,500 _additional_ wind turbines to be built, except the wind doesn't blow continuously so double that for backup, so we want and additional 5.4 million wind turbines. And again, at 250 cubic yards of concrete for foundation per wind turbine, that's 5.4 X 250 = 1,350 million cubic yards of CO2 producing concrete manufacturing.

      And of course there's still PV, with solar farms as far as the eye can see. No big need for CO2 producing concrete with those, but the sun doesn't shine 24/7/365 either. Solar photovoltaic energy is only available for a fraction of the day, since there's that night bugaboo plus the occasional cloud, so we're going to need billions of them and we're going to need energy storage.

      So... really... what's the answer? A wind turbine in the frame of absolutely every outdoor photograph anyone takes within the borders of the USA, and a country probably devoid of birds that would all be killed by the whirling blades? Or solar photovoltaic "farms" in said outdoor photographs no matter where in the USA one points the camera?

      Solve those PHYSICS problems and MAYBE we could stem the production of CO2 if we can find out how to use electricity to replace a jet engine, but if we turn propellers with electric motors, we'll get propeller speeds again, back to the 1950's air travel model.

      But nobody's going to solve this by whining at legislators.

      Elon Musk isn't Jesus and the world isn't going to be saved by autism.

  57. Melting tarmac? by reboot246 · · Score: 1

    In the UK? Why doesn't it melt in Arizona or the thousands of other places where it gets a hell of a lot hotter than the UK? What do they pave with over there, milk chocolate?!?

    Something smells fishy about that story.

    1. Re:Melting tarmac? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Well gee, it couldn't be that perhaps people use materials apprporiate for the expected conditions, rather than spending vast amounts on a road that can deal with Arizona's summer highs, plus snow, plus large amounts of rain.

      Naw I'm sure everyone is simply stupid and chooses the wrong stuff.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:Melting tarmac? by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      Or it's more likely it was complete garbage and the guy was standing over a sinkhole. Seriously, the grade of asphalt they use there is the same they use in southern ontario, which goes through 60C temperature swings between winter and summer. Up next, you'll believe the story where the road is melting as kids show pictures of it oozing up between their toes. It will later come out that they were standing on tar and gravel roads.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    3. Re:Melting tarmac? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the UK? Why doesn't it melt in Arizona or the thousands of other places where it gets a hell of a lot hotter than the UK? What do they pave with over there, milk chocolate?!?

      Something smells fishy about that story.

      Arizona has plenty of tarmac that melts but the temp typically has to climb above 115 deg C

    4. Re:Melting tarmac? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe it was dug up and later filled in again by a shoddy contractor who used the wrong stuff to fill it in.

      And now I go and look for a picture, it does indeed look like that part of the road had been dug up before: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhW28PSXcAAjNsu.jpg

  58. You can also look forward to the market collapse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And then you won't be fit to work and you'll die unless you find some younger people to sponge off.

  59. Kill the USians and the 1%. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Job done. We'll have cut the CO2 output by half with just removing ~3% of the planet's population. Please head to your nearest termination center!

  60. Australia, Sydney mid winter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    23-25 C in the middle of winter this week. I've been walking around the street in a tee shirt.

  61. Re:No way by q_e_t · · Score: 2

    Which old record, where? In some places in Europe, it's breaking the record set less than half a decade previously.

  62. This is just silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Our measurements for this record are not that extensive. Maybe 200 years at absolute best!

    So itâ(TM)s not all time heat records, itâ(TM)s just higher than weâ(TM)ve recorded before. The Earth is a cycle of cycles that cycle, the earth has been here before and so have we. Just chill, or melt, whatever you want to be anxious about

  63. Weather!=Climate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another example of someone who does not know the difference between weather and climate.

  64. After the collapse... by hyades1 · · Score: 1

    The effects of Climate Change are becoming more and more obvious. Sooner or later, something really nasty is going to happen, with widespread serious consequences for one or more First World countries.

    And when that "something" occurs, whether it's a prolonged heat wave, an unprecedented string of devastating storms or wildfires, an epidemic, a drought or whatever, a lot of people are going to die.

    When that happens, who will be an easier target for the rage of bereaved survivors, the head of Exxon, or the asshole down the street who liked to sneer at "SJW's" and spray pesticides when the neighbour's kids were playing outside?

    It doesn't take a lot of training to make a Molotov cocktail.

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  65. We're done, get baked. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Normal is gone.

    Look back N months and count how many of them have been the hottest on record. Same for the past M years too if you look. The 'new normal' is warming and the side-effects of warming such as cooling, flooding, severe weather. The rate is increasing too, due to several positive-feedback loops we stupid humans set in motion to feed the machine that sustains us. Glaciers and permafrost melting, methane release.

    No we are not doing to do anything better we are not going to change we are going to run over the impending cliff like lemmings. Already millions of people fleeing areas that no longer produce.

    Next check the rate at which the very life of planet Earth is going extinct. 1000-year-old trees are now dying, the coral reefs are dying, 200 species are dying each day. You see the same amount of natural life - insects, bees, birds, small animals - around as you remember?

    The gross area of real estate that can grow food without artificial cover is dwindling. We've turned the best farming areas into asphalt-covered hell. Warming is causing flooding and severe weather already. And the farmland that's left has no natural soil left - everything chemical pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, fertlizers growing plastic food.

    And we're not done trying to kill ourselves either. Plastic is choking the life out of the oceans as fast as warming. Waters now covered with an ultra-fine slick of sunscreen/natural oils/mineral oils/nerts/fat+greases/etc, just enough to deter the natural process of CO2 absorption and gas exchange.

    Copapods are choking, plankton are choking, and practically every human body has trace elements of plastic, DDT, PCBs, mercury, lead and all kinds of other chemical crap. Over half of the fish population gone since the 1970's. More than half of the forests have been harvested. And we're filling the rivers, lakes and oceans with organic sludge, treated or not, that breaks down and robs the water of oxygen.

    2026 before the major food crops crash is best case, 2019 is worst case. Animal feed gone. Human feed gone.

    Please dont be angry or depressed. The above is all really good news. For these final years we will live as well as any humans have ever lived. We all get to see how the story of humanity ends and life on earth pauses for a million years. Perhaps this is the finalé for all intelligent life in the universe. And if there's going to be a second-coming it has to be soon. Maybe we don't have to stress about our money so much. There doesn't have to be so much competition. Maybe we don't need to pressure ourselves to accumulate stuff any longer. Maybe we can spend our last few years living a more ideal life. You will do it, but prepping is expensive and wasteful, at best only trading dollars for minutes.

    Believe me or not. Agree or not. Make your own call but pull your head out of the sand first. Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance. See you on the other side. Peace, be good.

  66. This sounds like The Event by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Somebody call Algore at his new California beach house, The Event is about to begin!

  67. Burn that coal, baby! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My oldest brother and his wife just purchased their dream home on one of the barrier islands north of Miami this spring (on a different island from the Southern White House, but close). While the house is on the sound side of the island, it is on the waterfront, so it didn't come cheap.

    Before committing to the purchase, they looked into risks like tsunamis due to landslides in the Azores and Canaries (apparently, there is evidence of past such events in the geological record). However, they refused to even consider the risks of sea level rise or more frequent/powerful hurricanes due to climate change because it’s just a hoax (the are Fox News watchers and rabid Trumpicans).

    That bi-polar thinking is fascinating to me. They employ reason in some cases, but in other cases they totally abandon reason for devotion to their cult.

  68. The Physics is Already Solved... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... for PV panels, all we need is the legislation.

    There are 74 million single family homes in the US housing 210 million people (or 2/3 of the US population).
    * Source: https://www.quora.com/How-many-houses-are-there-in-the-US

    Power consumption of an American home is 11KW-Hrs per year, but this also includes multi-family homes, so let's round up to 15KW-Hrs per year for single family homes, which is about 4 KW-Hrs a day.
    * Source: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3

    Roof area of a single family home is 1250 square feet (2500 square feet finished floor area / 2 finished floors)
    * Source: http://www.yesmagazine.org/planet/the-righteous-small-house-challenging-house-size-and-the-irresponsible-american-dream

    Assuming 300 ft of roof area (25%) available for PV cells, and 6 hours of sunlight, we can generate 40KW-Hrs a day per home.
    * Source: https://www.sunpower.com.au/sites/international/files/media-library/data-sheets/ds-x-series-solar-panels-x21-australia.pdf

    Power conversion efficiencies of 85% are not unreasonable, and Li-Ion battery charge-discharge efficiencies are also 85%.
    * Source: https://www.digikey.com/en/articles/techzone/2015/aug/efficiency-standards-for-external-power-supplies
    * Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery

    That means, we can generate, store and retrieve 28KW-Hrs a day per single family home which needs only 4 KW-Hrs a day assuming local battery storage. Only one in 7 homes needs PV panels to generate the electricity needs of the US.

    Yes, the physics is already solved. All we need now is the right legislation.

    If we legislate that all new single family homes and and all new roofs will have PV systems (the latter being financed by the power company), 3M total new roofs/year will generate electricity using PV cells.

    In less than 3 years, we will be net zero for electrical power, and will also be able to replace natural gas for heating (22% of household energy consumption). Within a decade, we'll close down all our coal, nuclear, gas and wind powered electricity generation. Energy will be so cheap that we'll expend on things that we can't do cheaply today like recycling.

  69. yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yawn

  70. Check the sources of the measurements by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    At least for the Los Angeles area those sources are pretty darn poor...

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    1. Re:Check the sources of the measurements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      theres that denier site again.
      checks poster, of course.

  71. This is good news in one respect only- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks like weâ(TM)ll be safe from Ice-9 after all.