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Tesla Model 3 Outselling Small, Midsize Luxury Cars In US (forbes.com)
WindBourne shares a report from Forbes: In the second quarter of 2018, Tesla produced just over 53,000 vehicles, doubling its output compared to the same quarter last year. For the first time, Model 3 production (28,578) exceeded combined Model S and X production (24,761) with deliveries to customers totaling 40,740 for the quarter. The ramp up in Model 3 production is enabling it to outsell small and midsize luxury car sales in the U.S., according to some number crunching by CleanTechnica's Zachary Shahan.
His analysis claims that the Model 3 is crushing its "competitors" in that segment with total estimated sales for July amounting to 16,000 vehicles. The closest individual model to Tesla's mass-market endeavor is the Mercedes C-Class and even then, its July sales are estimated at just 6,029 units. The Model 3 is still untouchable when sales figures from multiple vehicles produced by the same company are added together. For example, the analysis expects sales of the BMW 2, 3, 4 and 5 Series to hit 12,811 at the end of July in total while customers will get their hands on 11,835 Mercedes C, CLA, CLS and E-Class models. That all means that Tesla would have a 23% share of the small and midsize luxury car market in July, ahead of BMW's 17% and Mercedes' 17%.
His analysis claims that the Model 3 is crushing its "competitors" in that segment with total estimated sales for July amounting to 16,000 vehicles. The closest individual model to Tesla's mass-market endeavor is the Mercedes C-Class and even then, its July sales are estimated at just 6,029 units. The Model 3 is still untouchable when sales figures from multiple vehicles produced by the same company are added together. For example, the analysis expects sales of the BMW 2, 3, 4 and 5 Series to hit 12,811 at the end of July in total while customers will get their hands on 11,835 Mercedes C, CLA, CLS and E-Class models. That all means that Tesla would have a 23% share of the small and midsize luxury car market in July, ahead of BMW's 17% and Mercedes' 17%.
Cuing a bunch of trolls, bots, and shills to come bitch about how batteries are useless in a hypothetical climate they've already destroyed.
But are they outselling gas guzzling trucks and SUV's?
I suppose we can expect more muskisdelusionalandoutofcash postings.
In the last Tesla thread I pointed out that, as an stockholder, what I am looking for is NOT Elon Musk's cute personality or science fantasy. Nor do I care to whig out at every little story of production problems. What I am looking for is:
Technological leadership.
Market presence.
Production leadership.
Most of all: backorders and strong forecast. None of the rest matters unless you have someone willing to buy it. Tesla has that in spades.
So Tesla is delivering. Skepticism is healthy but not to the extent that the Tesla naysayers on /. take it.
All this depends on Tesla being able to get the damn things produced and delivered to customers. The Model 3 production ramp up has been much slower than Elon predicted, but it is steadily improving, even as TSLA stock takes a beating (mostly due to Elon's regrettable antics on social media). Ironically, Elon's bold claims are probably more to blame than Tesla's actual performance. In any other context, a 100% increase in production in one year would be seen as quite strong, but because they keep failing to meet Elon's projections, they keep getting criticized by analysts.
Ultimately, I think they will get over this hump, but "production hell" is going to continue for a good while yet. Ramping up to high-volume production of automobiles is a unique challenge for Elon, and building a production line in tents has an unpleasant aroma of desperation.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
Cars don't even matter any more. Ford stopped selling all but two of them.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
The size of the backlog is still increasing, so demand shows no sign of slowing down anytime soon.
Time to get your media buddies to make up some #metoo fake news about Elon before your positions are called.
Or maybe just flee to Thailand before the inevitable happens.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
It's my understanding most of the people on the list really wanted the $35K model and are now losing interest and bowing out because Must hasn't delivered on it.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
I suppose we can expect more muskisdelusionalandoutofcash postings.
In the last Tesla thread I pointed out that, as an stockholder, what I am looking for is NOT Elon Musk's cute personality or science fantasy. Nor do I care to whig out at every little story of production problems. What I am looking for is:
Technological leadership.
Market presence.
Production leadership.
Most of all: backorders and strong forecast. None of the rest matters unless you have someone willing to buy it. Tesla has that in spades.
So Tesla is delivering. Skepticism is healthy but not to the extent that the Tesla naysayers on /. take it.
There are a lot of people sending out fake news about Tesla nowadays, but there's an interesting bit of information.
Normally, in the two weeks ahead of a financial report the stock will mirror the report outcome. If the report is good, the stock will rise a little just before the announcement. If the report is bad, the stock will drop a little.
Tesla will be making their Q2 announcement on Wednesday (after the market closes), and it's dropped by 10% in that time.
In any other stock that would indicate bad news, but for Tesla? It could indicate a last-ditch effort for the bears to drive the stock down before a "good news" report. People are changing Tesla from "hold" to "sell", and saying that they're certain Tesla will need another round of financing.
(Musk claims that they will not need another round, and that Tesla will be profitable in Q3 and Q4 of this year.)
Tesla short interest is 34m shares right now, and with 170m shares outstanding, that's about 20% of Tesla is being shorted right now. 25% is held by Musk, so that's about 1/4 of public shares are held short.
There are three key periods coming up for Tesla: the Q2 report (Wednesday), and Q3 and Q4 of this year.
Over 50% of Tesla shares are held by 5 entities: Musk, Fidelity, Baillie Gifford, and so on. If the institutions dig their heels into the sand and refuse to sell, and if the other public shareholders also refuse to sell, there will be a short run and the stock price will skyrocket. There's nowhere that the short sellers can go to settle.
If no one is selling the stock, or there are many buyers, including panic buyers, caused by other short sellers attempting to close out their positions as they lose more and more money, you may be in a position to incur serious losses.
The institutions know this. Many of the public shareholders know this.
If the stock jumps up and Tesla seems reasonably solvent, it's estimated the short sellers will be out several tens of billions of dollars.
Expect a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth...
(I own shares in Tesla and want to see them succeed.)
Well then as a stockholder you are looking at the wrong thing then. You can have all those things and still go out of business. The fact is that Tesla is $10 billion in debt and has a negative 90 P/E ratio. In addition, Tesla will need to go back to the capital markets to get more money.
Just a hypothetical question.
Suppose, just suppose, Tesla turns a profit in Q3 and Q4 of this year.
What would that do to the neg 90 P/E ratio, and would they still need to get more money?
Put aside whether they will or wont, first answer the question: If they become suddenly profitable, what will the outlook be like?
Tesla tends to run in the red in the years running up to a new model, then makes a profit for the next year or so.
If Musk is correct, and they start being profitable in Q3 and Q4, what will happen to the stock?
Lets see.
Here is a map of just Tesla Super Chargers. I see load in Texas.
Here is a map of all commercial electric chargers Keep in mind with EVs, most of your electricity comes from your own home since few trips are more than 100 miles.
Here is a graph of Tesla registrations by state, about a year ago. Since over 5% are in Texas, that would mean at least 20K cars are Tesla just in Texas.
The real issue is that you are noticing what you want to see.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
depends on who is in the WH, and who were the big losers on the shorts.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Maybe you should try visiting Austin sometime. And as far as charging stations in Texas, please let me introduce you to plugshare.com!
Just as an exercise, I zoomed the plugshare map in on the Houston / Galveston area, and it popped up 208 charging locations. And then just for fun I filtered out everything except Tesla-specific locations (i.e. filtering out ones a Tesla would require a simple adapter to use), and came up with 66. However If you actually live in the Houston / Galveston area, you'd probably never use any of them. If you are like most Tesla owners you'd charge your car at home and only use other charging points when you actually travel out of town anyhow.
I saw the same "report" that you saw, and it was nothing but a rumor. Then Elon Musk responded saying it was false, but didn't release any actual numbers. So I guess you can believe whatever you want to believe. As for the "huge debt load", it's nothing compared to Ford, but somehow I don't see people raging on Ford all the time.
How do I know if the stock will go up or not? I have no idea. The stock is intrinsically worth about $0 at this point, but it is $291. Tesla has a market capitalization greater than GM. It makes no sense. My point is as an individual stockholder you guys are looking at the wrong thing. You are putting your money at a huge risk with very little additional upside and zero return in your investment until you sell. Do you think Tesla stock will double and go to $600? Then you "made" 100%. What if it goes bankrupt? You lost all your money. Is the risk worth potentially making 100%? That is nuts.
Ask me in about a year - that's my horizon for holding the Tesla stock.
The way it works is the more you spend option wise the more you get bumped up in the queue. Realistically people are spending about $60k for a model 3.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
They're just filling pre-orders. The numbers make good clickbait though.
They're already pre-sold.
More like 13,000 cars failed QA due to production issues or they're gaming the tax credit/government subsidies by delaying shipment.
I think it's funny how I've already seen attempts to spin this negative for Tesla no matter what the sales numbers are. Backlog of orders isn't shrinking? Poor Tesla, they just can't mass-produce them like a real car company, they'll never catch up. Backlog of orders shrinks? Poor Tesla, they're stuck building a product that there just isn't that much demand for after all. Everything is grist for the mill of skeptics.
I own some small amount of TSLA.
I don't really consider it risky at all, especially not compared to almost any biotech stock.
Do you seriously think it is riskier than Amazon at this point?
Where is that capital coming from?
*If* they need it, that capital would easily come from these sales figures and market share. The shorts all were betting that Musk would have no access to capital. But if Tesla is meeting or beating delivery forecasts and still has a. good backorder and strong demand, what kind of idiot would not supply that money train with capital? This is what the OP is trying to tell you, with results like these it's obvious Tesla is delivering on promises for real and that opens a lot of doors.
The real reason to own TSLA right now is the amazon potential to reap the product of the short's massive miscalculation.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It is not outselling they are fulfilling long standing orders. Not the same.
I've seen this theory going around, that other car makers--the big boys, established companies that have been in business for decades--are just waiting until Tesla has done all the expensive R&D for them and primed the market, then they're all going to pile in with their own electric cars and crush poor, naive Tesla.
Good luck with that. So far I haven't seen any indication that any established car makers have the ability to mass-produce a desirable (in particular, long-range) electric car and sell it at a profit, and I haven't seen any indication that any of them are ramping up for an attempt to do so. A recent poll of auto executives found a solid majority of them still expect battery-electric cars to fail in the marketplace, and quite a few of them still think hydrogen fuel cells are the future. Are these the guys who are going to green-light EV production on a massive scale?
The latest "Tesla killer" to get a lot of buzz was the Jaguar I-Pace. They flew a bunch of reporters out to Portugal to show it off, and the machine seems to have impressed many of them. But how many do Jaguar plan to make? How many are they even able to make? The latest numbers I've seen suggest that Tesla are now out-producing Jaguar. I don't mean they're making more electric cars than Jaguar; I mean they're making more cars that Jaguar's total automotive output.
I share your enthusiasm and hope for Tesla to be a successful American auto maker.
Please don't conflate Tesla with Amazon, however. Jeff Bezo could have flipped the switch on profitability 10 years ago. He dragged the shareholders through this long process while building out infrastructure with all revenue brought in. Kind of like in the movie, "There will be blood" where the guy is buying up all the land around the town and nobody knows why, then he starts pumping oil out of all that property and nobody can negotiate a sale of property on the newly-realized value. In the case of Amazon, Bezos wanted to absolutely pave an immense footprint before being held to profitability on a quarterly basis by the shareholders. Now he's got an fairly diversified company that dominates in many sectors (public cloud, online retail, digital media readers, echo).
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
I saw the same "report" that you saw, and it was nothing but a rumor. Then Elon Musk responded saying it was false, but didn't release any actual numbers. So I guess you can believe whatever you want to believe. As for the "huge debt load", it's nothing compared to Ford, but somehow I don't see people raging on Ford all the time.
TSLA has over 11B in long and short term debt. FMC has 3.1B
You should compare TSLA and FMC finacials.
https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/...
https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/...
Iâ(TM)m not saying Tesla cant make it as acompany but they have some challenges. The difference between ford and tesla is ford had $156B in revenue in 2017 and $7.6B in net income (see https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/...) while tesla had $12B in revenue and -$2B net income (see https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/...) and their cash burn appears to be accelerating. Just comparing debt load between the two is not apples to apples.
GENERATION 27: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
Hmmm. Lets see:
...
1) wiki The Tesla Model 3 is a mid-size (US) / compact executive (EU)[7] luxury all-electric four-door sedan manufactured and sold by Tesla, Inc.
2) Car and DriverHowever, in its current form (only models equipped to a price of $50,000 and up are available as of this writing), it is actually more of a compact luxury sedan competing with the BMW 3-series in size and price.
3) Top Gear What is it? Oh, just some sensibly priced electric BMW 3 Series rival from a little-known American start-up.
4) Motor Trend This shows the luxury compact cars, which includes Tesla model 3.
5) Edmunds There's 15 cubic feet of trunk space, again similar to what other entry-level luxury cars offer.
So, the gov, all the other car makers, and all the experts consider the TM3 to be a compact luxury car. You can claim whatever you want, but
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
nope. They are pre-sold, but they did not gear up the delivery system to handle that kind of load. Now, they are trying to make it cheap and fast to do.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
It's my understanding most of the people on the list really wanted the $35K model and are now losing interest and bowing out because Must hasn't delivered on it.
Quite a few were holding out for the AWD / dual-motor which is now being delivered.
I imagine there'll be significant demand for the base ($35k) model with dual motor but those will have to wait until next year which means a Federal tax credit of at most $1900
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
Unfortunately it's as bad from both sides. You have the people who want Tesla to fail for whatever reason, and the fanboys who can't accept that any other EV might not be a steaming pile of shit.
Tesla makes some good cars. They have also had a lot of quality issues, and their prices are pretty high. Good luck to them, we need more EVs. At the same time, companies like Hyundai and Nissan/Renault have made some good cars too, starting from the affordable end of the market instead, and are now releasing cars with 300 mile range and features like autopilot. Hooray for them too.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
It took a lot of hard work by many many people to get to this point. Definitely a HUGE achievement by all the workers at Tesla.
However, one winning quarter cannot be always extrapolated per dot-com-boom hockey stick exponential estimates.
If Tesla can keep these sales percentage numbers this high indefinitely, then they're definitely worth what they're valued at today.
So far Tesla is roughly following the same pattern as as Space-X. One successful landing of a first stage was a HUGE accomplishment, but is not as disruptive as SEVERAL successful landings in a row... Space-X has now accomplished multiple successful launches of reused first stages and is NO DOUBT leading the even the established conglomerates with reliable, low cost launch vehicles. Tesla is not at that stage yet, and it is not 100% certain that it will dominate, but it certainly has a chance, much better today than x months ago which is itself a great achievement.
why don't you research it and find out for sure rather that postulate guess work.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Blame the fact that there are less Teslas in Texas than there are elsewhere on the scumbags at the Texas Automobile Dealers Association that have thus far managed to buy out enough politicians to keep their dinosaur business model alive and keep Tesla out of the state.
Guesswork, especially bad guesswork, will not benefit you - try looking up what "research" means and implement it
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
maybe you are not looking https://www.tesla.com/findus/l...
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
No, you detractors have no concept of proportion, you seem to think there should be millions of them on the road already even though its a young company and they should be making billions overnight. you keep comparing Tesla to 100 year old ICE companies, some of which have been bailed out by the taxpayer because the went bust.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
More people will order when the backlog is cleared. At that time, they also get the customers who aren't into waiting.
Then there's the fact that most of the world - including me - can't get theirs yet. Only the US and Canada.
Also there's a number of configs that you just can't get yet. Yes, some are lower profit, like non-PUP and SR battery. But I'm among those wanting, for example, air suspension and a tow hitch, both options Tesla has talked about (air suspension is supposed to be early next year), and neither of which are out. Also, the white interior is now available in the AWD, not just P, but still not RWD.
It's one of those cases of "Shut up and take my money!"
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Deleted from the website, huh? (search "standard battery")
Funny, that (Scroll to "Model 3 specs")
That's the press kit and the Model 3 info page, respectively - the two most prominent places on the website to look for info on the Model 3.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
No matter how many times you repeat a myth, that doesn't make it true.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Basically, yes. A reservation reserves you a place in line.... for a specific 1) configuration grouping, 2) market, and 3) customer status (employee > Tesla owner > non-Tesla owner). It's effectively not one list, but many smaller lists.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
No. The US federal tax credit starts next year at $3750, and for the latter half of the year drops to $1875. Model 3 SR is supposed to start shipping around the start of the year.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Indeed they are. With production. Which is the whole point, as people on this site have been ranting and raving, "Tesla can't mass produce cars". Except that they can and are.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
300 miles - you're talking about the Kona. Hyundai expects it to be EPA rated at 250 miles combined for the more expensive variant. Remember that Model 3 LR RWD range actually measured in at 334 miles EPA; Tesla deliberately downrated it so that all variants (including LR P) would get the same EPA range. The long-range Kona will come in somewhat more expensive than the 220 mile Model 3 SR (not out in the US either), but less expensive than the 310/334 mile Model 3 LR. Basically priced in the same range. But you get a small CCS-charging "normal performance", somewhat awkward handling econobox. The CCS charging aspect is key, since CCS is a terrible patchwork. Which we've gone into before - you gave me Ireland as an example (trying to pick a place in western Europe where you thought CCS would outshine the Supercharger network), I pulled up the stations along the most obvious highway route, and half of them had spent significant amounts of time down, leaving people stranded. CCS is junk. This might change, but as it stands, it's terrible. Mostly 50kW (in practice ~44kw-ish), which is just way too slow for normal people on road trips. And even on higher power chargers, while Kona might compare to an old Model X (snicker) in distance per unit time, it doesn't even come close to Model 3 charge rates (distance per unit time). Model 3 is - contrary to Bjørn's assertion - a more efficient vehicle (compare EPA ranges to battery sizes, compare drag coefficients and masses, compare realized MPH charge rates, etc - Bjørn's Model 3 testing was on non-aero rims, sport tires and with an extra passenger, vs. Kona with no passenger on eco tires and aero rims, and the comparison done at low speeds which cancels out the aero advantage). And Model 3 has vastly higher charge powers. Model 3 LR, for example (we don't have SR's curve yet) can charge for nearly the Kona's entire range than the Kona's peak power - which it has to start ramping off of in the 50s. And here we're just talking about V2 superchargers. V3 comes out this fall, and Model 3s are already designed to make use of them.
Lastly: Hyundai's "autopilot" is terrifying.
Please don't take this as me "hating on the Kona" too much. I'm only "hating on the comparison". As far as non-Teslas go, I think the Kona is a standout. Unfortunately, I'm also pretty convinced that it's just a compliance car. Like the Ioniq. Hyundai only plans to produce 40k Kona + Niro EVs globally. Which is just nothing. If they were making a profit on it, they'd make them in much greater numbers.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
ED: "..nearly the Kona's entire range higher than the Kona's peak power..."
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
There are a lot of people cancelling their per-order. But that is in general money in the bank to Testla as their deposit is non-refundable. For the most part I expect it wasn't people loosing interest but couldn't wait for a new car for one reason or an other. Being their backlog every cancel order is extra money to them and closer to finishing up their backlog.
Just as long the cancellations don't exceed output capacity they should be good.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
We have been over all this. Bjorn did 510km in a Kona with normal driving, not hypermiling or anything. He was seeing over 350km range at 125km/h, so exceeding the speed limit constantly. And you are trying to compare with the M3 LR, a car that costs $20,000 more for a similar spec.
Bjorn also noted how well the autopilot works. His only criticism is that it doesn't slow down if you release your hands from the wheel, so pretty much the same as Tesla used to be until the latest software update that owners are moaning about.
CCS is good in Europe. Let's say for the sake of argument you drive really inefficiently and only get 350km range. You have better range than the similarly priced Model 3 SR so the slower charge is offset against the longer distance you travel before needing to charge. So really it's only on the second charge that the M3 starts to have an advantage, or after 700km or about 7 hours of solid driving. By being slightly more efficient you can push that to about 9 hours and still arrive at the same time as the M3.
Maybe you need to drive for more than 9 hours a day, but now we are into "EVs are crap because my off-grid remote mountain cabin can't charge them" territory.
I don't think we are ever going to agree, but perhaps we can at least get as far as agreeing that the most suitable comparison is the M3 SR with AP. It costs a little more than the top spec Kona but is similar in terms of the major features.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
While 80% seems a bit big. Americans do love their Cars and use them a lot more then other countries. The nations infrastructure was build behind the idea that everyone has a car so if you are without one in most areas of the US (Exception of major urban areas) you are out of luck.
America is also the richest nation in the world with the 3rd largest population. And German Automotive (With the exception of Volkswagen) has been considered a class symbol to show that you had made it in life.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
the rapidly shrinking passenger car slice of the US market. Ford, for instance, will make only Mustangs and Focus crossovers in 2019; all other passenger cars are gone from the Ford lineup. Fiat Chrysler and GM aren't far behind, phasing out or scaling back production of most passenger car models
Given the weird shift of interest in the US, shouldn't Tesla just move to Europe ?
Say, buy the left-over factories from the Saab chinese buyout, and retool them for EV ?
On our side of the ocean we aren't that much interested into giant over-compensating penis substitutes.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
USA's GDP is about 15-20% of the worlds GDP, so 80% is certainly too high.
Oh come on. He did 510km in a Kona on eco tires and aero wheels with no passenger at an average speed of under 90kph / 56mph. And you know that.
1) His long-range run was at 120kph, not 125. With an average slightly under that.
2) Going 68% as far at 120kph as at 90kph is a big dropoff, and a testament to the lack of good aerodynamics on the Kona.
120kph (75mph) - while far faster than my speed limit - is not by any stretch an unusual highway speed in much of the world. Many places drive faster. 90kph / 56mph, by contrast, is on the very low end of highway speeds, by global standards. I live in AFAIK the only developed country that doesn't have any roads with speed limits faster than that.
No. Please, at least get your pricing right. Model 3 LR starts at $44k USD. You're adding PUP and who knows what else in. The "long range" Kona starts at £34,500 in the UK (no US pricing yet). So subtracting 20% VAT and converting to USD, that's $37830. Pricewise, that's slotting in 31% of the way between SR and LR. Range-wise, that's 33% of the way between SR and the nominal LR range of 310 miles, or 26% of the way between SR and the measured LR range of 334 miles.
I know you want to try to load up the Model 3 with packages to try to make it more expensive, under the excuse of "anything that Kona has, we'll tack on a Model 3 package for that", but sorry, that's not even remotely a fair comparison, since you're not doing the reverse. Kona doesn't even have a freaking app for crying out loud, let alone literally dozens of standard Model 3 features. I know your favourite package to do this with is Autopilot, but the portions of that which really matter (safety-related) come free.
You don't get to load up one with options to try to artificially boost the price; that's just ridiculous.
Who should I listen to, some not-that-enthusiastic commentary, or my lying eyes? Here, let's quote from the comments section of that video:
"That's... actually rather terrifying." - My comment. One of the most liked comments in the thread :)" :O They need to fix this in case people have a medical situation."
"So the car will turn off the assist and rely on lesser technologies when you need it the most? Incredibly bad design." - THE most liked comment in the thread
"we called it DDM = drunk driver mode not LFA
"This is dangerous
"Thats not good. it need to drop the speed"
"Scary drunk system"
"That’s disappointing "
"WTF I was expecting lexus lfa =("
You seem to be the only person who thinks this is acceptable. This is going to kill people. And I don't mean "one every several hundred million miles, at a rate less than a human driver". I mean frequently. You leave your hands off the wheel for too long and the car decides to drive like you're on heroin? Who the heck thought this up?
1) This is not true. Autopilot has always braked to a stop and put the flashers on if you cease responding to driver input
2) The only thing people were "moaning" about was the frequency of the alerts. In the latest update, they decreased them (but not to as far apart as they were previously) and made the
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
** Ed: "6 (or if you'd rather, 7) hours."
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
The pre-order deposit is fully refundable until you order. I know a few people who have had their refunds lately.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Also: Your timing logic is flawed. Because nobody drives 100% DoD charge cycles. Most people will want at least 50km / 30 miles safety buffer, if not more, and only your first leg starts at 100% charge, since nobody charges to 100% on the road. You have maybe 85% of a charge to use for the first leg, and then maybe 60% of a charge to use for subsequent ones (if that).
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Show me where I said that.
Also, your false assertion doesn't change the fact that not only has the base model not been cancelled, but it still features prominently on Tesla's website. The notion that it had been "scrubbed from their website" is simply wrong; it's still all over their website. What they changed was the order page, when they transitioned from a reservation-based system to a direct order system. Because - news flash - you can't direct order something that's not currently in production.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
When electric pickups do hit the market, they are going to have to ban them from tractor pulls. Otherwise, a lot of sensitive folks will be real embarrassed.
There is truth to this. I own a Chevy Bolt and I also own a V6 pickup. The Chevy Bolt has more torque than my pickup does and is smoother and nicer to drive even if you disregard the handling (which is no contest). Having driven an EV for a while now I'm firmly convinced ICEs are living on borrowed time. My Bolt has enough range to drive from Detroit to Cleveland without stopping, performs like some of the fastest hot hatches, and is much more pleasant to drive. I actually do need a pickup but the moment there is a decent EV or hybrid pickup available my ICE powered pickup is getting sold.
You'll see the way non-hybrid, non-EV gas or diesel trucks are advertised change overnight. They will never talk about their towing power again.
Probably true as well. I have no idea why hybrid pickup trucks (or EV) are not already a thing. Have the wheels being driven by electric motors and if necessary charged by a diesel or gas engine for range extension is a total win. Huge battery pack to power tools for skilled trades. Tons of torque for towing. Better fuel economy and a better ride. (electric motors are SO much nicer to drive than ICE) Aside from cost there really is no performance downside and given the hefty profit margins on pickups obviously people don't mind paying a premium for them at least in the US. I would replace my current pickup with a hybrid or EV version in a heartbeat if one were available.
Fake news! Most of the people on the list wanted the $25K model (after state and federal kickbacks). The federal tax credit will be gone before a 35K model is produced. And if you want to spend $60K+ on a Tesla, why not just get a model S? It's a better car, has better build quality, and fewer design defects.
Copyright (c) 1990 - 2014 Dice. All rights reserved. Use of this comment is subject to certain Terms and Conditions.
I bought shares with no intent to sell them until late Q4 at the earliest, most likely Q1-Q2 of next year. I'm not a day trader (fees here on US stocks are too high for that!). I'm in this for the Model 3 rampup period. It's a simple wager: Tesla proves that they can mass produce Model 3s profitably and that they have a sustained market for them, or they don't. I say yes, you say no. I put my money in when the shorts made an opportunity for me. I take it out at the end of the rampup, or when it's at least clear that the shorts have given up on their hypothesis. It's very simple.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Long distance towing at highway speed is too much for the currently available Li-on battery packs.
Unsurprisingly Tesla doesn't seem to agree with you on this point. They seem to be working on a pickup which I'm personally quite curious about.
For the Model X, towing 3500 lbs at 60 mph will probably cut your range by 40-60% depending on road condition & weather
Towing doesn't do wonders for the range of ICE powered vehicles either. And frankly I'm not convinced this is a serious issue. There are a considerable number of use cases for towing where even a big hit to range would still be well within the single charge distance of of a Tesla. I'd wager to say that aside from people moving and vacation RV use, most instances of towing are less than 100 miles. And it's not as if the technology doesn't exist to extend the range of an EV. There are fast charge stations in many places. Even if we ignore plug in hybrids you could simply put a ICE on the trailer itself and thereby charge the EV for long trips by turning into a de-facto hybrid when necessary. Best of both worlds. Access to the gasoline refueling stations for long trips but don't have to carry around the ICE when you don't need it which is most of the time.
Mid size autos? Watch the traffic and you'll see no one really drives "autos" in America. Everyone drives those stupid SUV's. So much so that Ford is foolishly DROPPING everything except the Mustang & Focus from their lineup soon.
I don't really consider it risky at all, especially not compared to almost any biotech stock.
If you don't think it's a risky investment given it's ludicrously high valuation and huge debt load then you may not be understanding the meaning of the word risk. Even Elon Musk has admitted the stock is priced "higher than we have any right to deserve".
Do you seriously think it is riskier than Amazon at this point?
Hell yes Tesla is riskier than Amazon. FAR riskier. Not even a question.
*If* they need it, that capital would easily come from these sales figures and market share.
Market share doesn't equal cash if you are selling at a loss. You can have huge market share selling $2 bills for $1 but you'll be out of business faster than you can say "Chapter 11 Bankruptcy".
But if Tesla is meeting or beating delivery forecasts
When has Tesla EVER beaten a delivery forecast? Come on. Good products but Musk is almost legendary for missing delivery deadlines.
The shorts all were betting that Musk would have no access to capital.
That's not an unreasonable bet. They have $10 billion in debt and the debt servicing on that isn't to be laughed at, even by Elon Musk. At some point even Musk would have a hard time convincing the market that Tesla can service the debt it already owes. And given how much trouble Tesla has had getting the Model 3 up to full production it's perfectly reasonable to question whether they can bring in enough revenue fast enough to service the debt. I hope Tesla succeeds but they wouldn't be the first company to fail due to cash flow issues if that were to happen.
The real reason to own TSLA right now is the amazon potential to reap the product of the short's massive miscalculation.
That's a fancy way of saying that you bought an overpriced stock and are hoping that a short squeeze will send it even higher. Tesla is a fine company and I really want them to succeed but there is no objectively justifiable reason for the company to be worth more than General Motors at this time with a tiny fraction of the sales and zero profits to date. The stock price is hugely overvalued and there is no reasonable case to be made that Tesla is going to generate enough profits in the next 5 years to make a reasonable ROI for anyone who buys at the current price.
An obsession over P/E ratios isn't healthy. P/E is a past-looking metric. It is not predictive.
No but it does provide some sense of where the current price of a company is compared to similar companies and whether it might over or under valued. You are right that it's not a replacement for a serious deep dive analysis but there is nothing about Tesla's situation that should lead one to expect they are going to be making massive high margin profits in the near future. Tesla isn't super unique among manufacturing companies and the cost models for them are well understood. Other companies make automobiles and we have a pretty good idea what they are worth and what sort of profit margins to expect and we know how the market values them. Even under the most generous assumptions about their prospects, Tesla's current valuation is highly irrational and not justified by any reasonable near term expectations of free cash flows. Someday they may be worth more than GM based on objective financial results but that day is years away.
Basically Tesla may succeed and it may even someday be worth it's current market cap. But right now, today, expecting a reasonable ROI on the TSLA stock is betting on the Greater Fool theory.
that's only for the US market ...
"Tesla has a market capitalization greater than GM. It makes no sense. " - considering GM went bust quite recently and your taxes bailed it out at a billion dollar loss, it makes perfect sense
Your analysis is both flawed and biased. GM went bust a decade ago because they didn't have access to cash to cover their debt obligations. Tesla only survived during the same period by borrowing $465 million from the federal government. Tesla has substantial debt obligations and their near term cash flow is still a question. Tesla is a FAR riskier investment TODAY than GM is. What happened 10 years ago is irrelevant to the discussion. Currently GM is very profitable and Tesla is decidedly not. Tesla's market cap does not accurately reflect even the most optimistic assumptions about their business prospects in the next 5-10 years.
I'm failing to see why per capita GDP would have any relevance to total sales of expensive things (which is what he was talking about).
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
If you click on "Order Now" the cheapest option is $49K. Cancelled or not, it is unavailable even to order for the foreseeable future.
People keep asserting that.
Said people keep being proven wrong and losing their shirt.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
If I was in the market for a little beater a Tesla would be near the top of my short list. Is this some type of revelation? Anyone shopping for a little car is going to look at Tesla...unless they have a Huyundai budget.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
Suspect you've seen them and not realized it. A few years ago after I became interested in Tesla, and became familiar with what they looked like, I started to notice them all around Houston, though predominantly in the Galleria area. Now I see them all around town, even in my neck of the woods (Fresno, off highway 6 between Missouri City and Pearland). As of the end of May people around here now regularly see my blue Model 3.
There's no signs for Superchargers along the highways/interstates as there's no need - the car tells you were they are. They're often not visible from the road either, so if you didn't already know they were there you'd drive right past them and be none the wiser. This past weekend I went to San Antonio and Austin. I drove past the Superchargers in Columbus, stopped for dinner and charged in Flatonia, then made it to my friends in San Antonio and plugged into a 120V outlet (slowest charging option, but still gained 50 miles of range overnight). We went up to Austin for Classic Game Fest, then on the way back stopped for dinner in San Marcos and charged. Of the three, the Flatonia location is the only one you'd have had any chance of seeing from the interstate.
Up until now the expectation was you would charge at home, or if traveling then at the place you stayed at (known as Destination Charging). So at the moment most Superchargers are along the roads between cities. As the cars drop in price the need for apartment dwellers to charge becomes a concern, so Tesla's rolling out Urban Superchargers(starting with Chicago and Boston).
"Outselling everyone" is for current sales, which does not cause all the cars sold in previous years to suddenly disappear from the roads. As such it'll take time for the increase in Tesla sales to become visible amongst all the existing vehicles.
If you're interested in seeing the cars and learning more, check out the National Drive Electric Week events that are occurring from September 8-16. The Houston Event is on the 15th from 9:30am -12:30pm at Ikea. So far 17 cars are scheduled to be there, covering 8 different vehicles.
He drive 510km at normal highway speed in Norway in the tyres/wheels that the car comes with. What do you want Rei, what specific set-up do you require for the Rei Certified Efficient Driving Range Test?
His long-range run was at 120kph, not 125
Look at the speedometer. Anyway, who cares? He was doing the speed limit or slightly above. Most of Europe has the same limit. He got 220 miles, which is the same as the similarly priced Model 3 SR gets with efficient driving. The point is undeniable, even if you do want to quibble over 5 kph.
And your beloved Model 3 also tanks efficiency at higher speeds. That's how drag works. And the Kona is still showing better efficiency at 120 kph in Bjorn's test.
Many places drive faster.
Here's a comprehensive list: https://www.theaa.ie/aa/motori...
Most are 120, and handful 130.
Model 3 LR starts at $44k USD. You're adding PUP and who knows what else in.
I'm adding autopilot, because the Kona has something similar. You get fewer luxuries in the M3 at that price, but it's broadly similar.
Here, let's quote from the comments section of that video:
Really, you are quoting the YouTube comments section now? And you take that over what Bjorn, an exert on EVs who has driven them all and extensively tested multiple steering assist systems, says?
Anyway, I'm not convinced that coming to a stop in the middle of a 120km/h highway is such a good idea either. Especially since Autopilot tends to just ram straight into stationary vehicles without bothering to slow down. That sounds even more suicidal.
If lane keeping alone was that dangerous then we would already see all these frequent fatalities as people with cruise control and lane keeping take their hands off the wheel and get little more than a beep or a nudge in the many millions of vehicles that already have it.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Cute literalism, Karen, but it's clear enough what AC was referring to, particularly for someone as close to the issue as I know you are.
You can't actually order a $35k Model 3 (for delivery on any date), and as shown in detail in the above link Tesla has restructured its ordering and pricing system (both on the website and on the price sheets on the vehicles themselves) to eliminate any reference to $35k as a baseline for the higher-margin configurations they'll actually sell you today. The fact as you point out that they're still including the number in their high-level marketing materials just amplifies the ongoing bait-and-switch.
...Pickup Trucks are crushing all of them put together.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
If you think that a CEO that is fucking a teenager and calling people "pedo"'s can make good business decisions, then go right ahead. Personally, I think the guy has gone off his rocker (recently or long ago, I don't know), and I wouldn't trust him to work in an ice cream truck.
I don't respond to AC's.
It's the cost. There was a hybrid Durango for a moment, it started at ~$85k.
If they can do a passenger sedan like the Volt it doesn't compute that they couldn't do it for a truck. I realize cost is a factor but I don't think that is the full story. I think for trucks they are simply afraid to tinker with a successful formula given that EVs and hybrids tend to have a bit of an (unjustified) hippie vibe to them thanks to econoboxes like the Prius. I think it's probably more of a marketing problem than an engineering issue.
FCA has never taken EVs seriously and their late CEO basically said publicly not many years ago they were only doing enough to meet legal requirements. I'm aware they are working on some hybrid stuff (including the Ram and reportedly the Wrangler) but I'm not convinced FCA is really taking them electrification seriously yet. I want a pickup with at least 50 miles of all electric range - not so half hearted mild hybrid.
Don't be deceived by the fact that automakers are selling very expensive pickups; they still need to have cheap models in order to be viable.
That doesn't have anything to do with the fact that they could offer a hybrid power train in the high end models. There are estimates that Ford averages as much as $13K in profit per F150 sold. The real number is probably a lower but it's a big number for sure. There is no doubt that it's the biggest driver in Ford's profits. Certainly there is margin there to be experimenting with power train options. Ford made $7.6 billion in profit last year. That's almost as much profit as Tesla had revenue.
So can I. Today for instance I saw 4 Teslas. Two on the way to work, one in the parking lot, and one on the way home.
I know as a Texan this may be news to you, but there's more to the world than Texas.
You don't have to do "Youtube drive tests" to measure efficiencies. That's what drive cycles are for. Hyundai expects Kona to receive a 250 mile rating in the US. Tesla expects Model 3 SR to receive 220 miles. LR received 310, but RWD was downrated from 334. These are the facts. I'm sorry if you don't like them.
He specifically stated that the average was 120. Regardless of what the speedometer happened to show at some random time.
1. Nope.
2. You've been acting like that's "fast", "inefficient". When in reality it's below average.
What's your obsession with ignoring formal drivecycle measurements? Guess I have to repeat what I wrote before: "Model 3 LR starts at $44k USD. You're adding PUP and who knows what else in. The "long range" Kona starts at £34,500 in the UK (no US pricing yet). So subtracting 20% VAT and converting to USD, that's $37830. Pricewise, that's slotting in 31% of the way between SR and LR. Range-wise, that's 33% of the way between SR and the nominal LR range of 310 miles, or 26% of the way between SR and the measured LR range of 334 miles."
To be more specifically, drag works by CdA. Kona's Cd is reported as 0,29, Model 3's is 0,22. A is not 32% more in Model 3. Do the math.
189 Wh/km / 304Wh/mi is not better than Model 3 at 120 kph / 75mph (on aero wheels and eco tires like the Kona). Not even better than the heavier Model 3 LR, let alone Model 3 SR. 304 Wh/mi at 120kph/75mph is Model S levels of energy consumption, not Model 3.
Since you prefer ancedotes to drivecycles, here you go.
Wheels: unknown. Time of year unknown. Lifetime average: 267 Wh/mi, primarily at 79-83 mph: "Have you set a separate trip meter at 75 mph to see what your wh / mi would be?" "Yep I’ve tested that. Goes down to about 244 Wh/mi.
Wheels: unknown. January in Portland : "75 mph - 303 wh/mile"
Wheels: unknown. Time of year unknown "Similar numbers. Model 3 LR, ~600 miles, 19" wheels, Colorado. 239Wh/mile, majority at 65-75mph."
Wheels unknown: ". In summer, dry road conditions I am able to get 285 miles on a full charge driving 75-80 MPH, or 305 miles if I back it down to 65 MPH." (285 mi = 263 Wh/mi) "going 75 MPH over 200 miles, I lost around 35 miles of rated range" (275mi = 272 Wh/mi) "Long road trip on very hot days: 80 mph with A/C I lost 20% of my range. I have 18" w/Aeros on. I think that's as bad as it could ever get." (258mi = 290 Wh/mi)
Random Model 3s: "All other Wh/mi at hwy speeds (75/80/90) were much higher than in your figure. I've seen 255-300 "
These are just the first hits I get for searching "model 3 Wh/mi 75mph
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
FCA can't afford to take EVs seriously.
True dat. Though honestly they can't afford to not take them seriously either. Tough place to be I think.
Doing a real hybrid is expensive because they don't build batteries like Tesla does.
Tesla doesn't build batteries either. Panasonic is doing the heavy lifting there. Tesla has a supply advantage but they don't really seem to have a cost advantage (yet) on their batteries. People call it Tesla's gigafactory but really it's Panasonic's. Tesla is just the sexier brand so they pretend they are the majority partner in that venture.
But they can make EVs so much cheaper because they are building their own batteries that they can actually make them profitable.
That might be true eventually but it isn't true yet. Honestly it's not clear that Tesla has any sort of substantial cost advantage at present. I think you are right about the direction of their strategy but that's going to take a while to really pay dividends if it really pans out. In the mean time there are a LOT of other battery companies working pretty hard on the problem and I don't see why companies like Ford or GM or Toyota couldn't partner with them (or buy them) and reap similar benefits as long as they don't wait too long.
Pickup truck buyers tend to expect a traditional vehicle, so I think the market is going to have to go through all the phases.
Agreed on the traditional vehicle but that's kind of my point. It's more of a marketing than a technical or economic problem. I think if Tesla hits the market with a drool worthy electric pickup that should finally start to move things along once some of the good old boys can see it perform in the real world. Similar to how the Model S is wrecking all the supercars on the drag strip.
There's actually no good place to bolt up a big battery pack on a typical pickup truck, but fitting a mild hybrid battery in someplace is trivial.
Sure there is. Right in the floor of the bed. And if you actually electrify the wheels you don't need big driveshafts and transmissions taking up ludicrous amounts of space underneath. Actually my pickup (Honda Ridgeline) has a giant space under the bed where you could put a huge battery pack without any serious modifications. Right now they store a spare tire in it and have an empty in bed trunk. Perfect place for a battery and/or electric motors.
Why would you think BMW and Mercedes sell 80% of their output in the US?
https://www.statista.com/stati...
"The statistic gives a regional breakdown of BMW Group's worldwide automobile sales in the fiscal year of 2017. That year, BMW Group sold some 14.4 percent of its vehicles to customers in the United States."
https://www.statista.com/stati...
"Mercedes-Benz Car's vehicle sales in FY 2017, by major country (in 1,000 units)
China 619
US 388
Germany 320"
Guesswork from 1reddrop puts Tesla's US sales at 48.6%.
https://1reddrop.com/2018/06/16/tesla-sales-by-country/
** to be more specific
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
What's your obsession with ignoring formal drivecycle measurements?
I don't ignore them, but I'm also aware that they are not terribly realistic either. If you drive at motorway speed you will get less, if you drive efficiently you will get a lot more. The NTSB rating is in the middle and represents some kind of mixed motorway/urban driving cycle.
But really this obsession with exact range numbers is pointless. The point I'm making here is that unless you do a 8+ hours of driving in a single day the greater range and lower charge speed cancel out and you end up with about the same travel time in a Kona or M3 SR. It's not something that would justify buying one over the other for most people, certainly much less of a consideration than if they want a compact SUV or low sporty hatchback.
Okay, add in remote climate control start. Remote charge monitoring. GPS tracking. Remote driving access granting. Giant glass windows. Far more trunk space. Well more interior space. Non-cheapo-hard-plastic interior. 15" touchscreen with smooth, responsive interface. Vastly more power. Significantly better handling. Keyless entry. Best-in-class voice controls.
Actually the Kona has keyless entry but them M3 doesn't really. It has that janky phone link that requires you to keep the battery draining Bluetooth enabled, or it has a card you have to touch the door pillar.
If we are trying to match the exact same spec then you bad better add ventilated seats, unlimited (US) or 8 year 200k mile (EU) battery warranty, lower service costs, Android Auto, Apple Carplay, wireless phone charging, driver attention monitoring, physical buttons, reliable non-beta rain sensitive wipers, HUD...
Maybe we should also measure the panel gaps if you really want to play this game. But in reality most people will choose based on if they want a compact SUV and lower monthly payments or if they want a squat, sporty hatchback for a few dollars more.
Yes, stopping and putting your flashers on is so much more dangerous than driving like you're on heroin until you crash. Sure.
So what is the actual scenario we are considering here. Driver passes out? Driver is busy sending a text?
If you're only here to push transparent FUD, my conversations with you are done.
It's not FUD that AP has a known issue with stationary vehicles, as do most humans driving at motorway speeds. Averages have nothing to do with it, we are talking about a specific scenario for which we have evidence of a systemic flaw. Or perhaps "limitation" would be a better word, since the driver is supposed to prevent such accidents.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I can count on one hand the TOTAL number of Tesla vehicles ( any of them ) I've actually seen driving around in and around the Houston / Galveston Metro area. ( Since Tesla became a company ) I've seen more Ferrari and Lamborghini than I have Tesla :|
I have yet to see a single charging station at all anywhere in Texas. ( I did spot a few in Colorado )
So, I'll take this " Outselling everyone " silliness with a grain of salt until I actually start seeing them in higher numbers.
You're full of shit. I live in Houston and I see Teslas on the road all the time. I see them in my West Houston suburb and in my neighborhood. I see them on I-10, the Sam Houston Tollway over to I-45 where I work (and there there happens to be a Tesla show room). I see them when I drive down 290 to go to my favorite Mexican restaurant off of Bingle. Shit, I even seem them on Highway 6 when I ride my bike over the bridge to Terry Hershey park. Mostly what I see are the Model S, but I've seen a few Model X around as well. If you don't see Teslas in Houston, you're intentionally not paying attention.
No one cares what your captcha was
Houston TX, USA
Dimensionally - it's the same as an Accord or Camry. Trunk space - same size. If it sold for $35K, it would be a well-optioned Accord or Camry. Performance wise, the three are within about half a second in the 0-60. They are 4 door sedans. I know Tesla fans like to compare against the European brands - but it's a Accord or Camry competitor.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Yes, when I want to "memory hole" a model, I leave it up on the two most prominent places on the website that people would go to look for information about it.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
Because a country where the majourity of the population is poor, is not a rich country, and most certainly not the richest country on earth.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
You know very well I didn't say "only". I stopped after I found clear unambiguous references on the most obvious places a visitor to the site would visit.
Your obsession over the change in the order page when they changed how they were doing orders is duly noted. Goodbye.
"Lock and load, Brides of Christ!"
That would take time and effort.
I don't spend time researching slashdot comments.
let see.
Top 10. Well above most all of Europe esp. Germany and France, and China is still inefficient.
Top 5 in average wealth per adult, though we do drop #24 on mean wealth.
Certainly not the wealthiest, or even close to the poor.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
That might be a nice answer. I'd love, out of a kind of morbid curiosity, to know what post it was aimed at.
Because it's got fuck-all to do with mine.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Aw, sock puppet account had mod points. How cute.
Your obsession over the change in the order page when they changed how they were doing orders is duly noted. Goodbye.
And your cowardice over addressing the simple fact that your church removed the "$35,000" base price from the real-world window stickers on the cars in their real-world sanctuaries is duly noted. Be seeing you....
> Wait and see how many companies come up
> with full-screen display-only electric vehicles...
So taking your eyes off the road for texting while driving is dangerous and you get a ticket + fine + traffic demerit points, but taking your eyes off the road to adjust the temperature or select a different radio station or do whatever else, is safe ?!?!?!?
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
And yet, Accord/camrey do not have high-end versions. Otoh, BMW 3 series has similar low-end config and then gets deck out just like the TM3.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
And to go by mean and median, Americans drop down to 4th and 25th place
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Just another day in Paradise
No, the Accord and Camry have high-end versions, they just sell for around $35-40K...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Unfortunately it's as bad from both sides. You have the people who want Tesla to fail for whatever reason, and the fanboys who can't accept that any other EV might not be a steaming pile of shit.
Wanting Tesla to fail is an old game.
https://www.dailykos.com/stori...
They're giving in to the upsell and buying now because of the situation with the tax credit. By the time Tesla actually ships the $35K model, Teslas will no longer be eligible because the company will have sold too many electric cars. So you're really comparing buying a $36.5K car now vs a $35K car later, and given that choice buying the LR version is a no brainer.
If electric cars become a bigger seller than gasoline powered ones, the executives of oil companies will take action to sabotage the electric car industry!
I appreciate the humor, but I bet when you look outside your window you see a completely different world.
The thing is, a lot of people happen to seen the same world as I out of our windows (the people who all live in more densely populate urban and sub-urban areas) than you see out the wooden frame left over after the latest of Nature's calamities trashed your windows yet again.
Yes, I fully understand that there exist people who *actually do* need off-terrain vehicle, specifically *for* their off-terrain ability. Like you do (given your description), and case in point - even on our side of the ocean - a friend's family who had their vehicle constantly covered in fresh mud and stinking awfully of dead animals, because every other week-end they drove it out deep in forest and mountains to go hunting.
But, to me, it looks like out of every batch of SUVs, pick-ups, etc. a small number go to people like you who actually need them for their capabilities, and biggest chunk remaining ends up doing simple commutes between suburbs and in-city work place. Always immaculate clean "off-road capable" vehicles.
Mostly because people like to have big card for some weird perception of safety (you know all these people getting afraid of driving inside a Smart because of what would happen if it crashed into a huge SUV ?)
(The split it self makes sense. There's more population living in the suburbs and commuting to city work, than people deep in the more wild area. Therefor they'll represent a bigger chunk of anything, including of SUVs bought).
From our side of the ocean it seems that this effect is even more pronounced in the US. Though it appears here around in Europe too, specially in the big capital cities of richest European countries. (Which make even less sense : being very old, lots of European cities tend to have small tortuous streets which are way easier to navigate using smaller cars).
But at least Europe seems to still prefer small cars form factors (mostly for the in-city maneuverability mentioned above. And also because of high price at the pump making gas guzzling monster less economically sane).
Hence my joke : if the US seems to be over-taken by a big "i need a super-giant car" mania, to the point that several US brands seems to be entirely dropping normal cars, and some people think that this would jeopardize potential market for Tesla, maybe they should move to the part of worlds where sedan car are still comparatively more popular.
Meanwhile, given your unusual needs, of course you'ld be needing big cars. I you would be driving one of the very few (on scale of all sold) that are constantly completely covered in fresh mud.
When I look outside, I see the bridge over the brook washed out.
Now, all joking aside, I hope the local weather catastrophe didn't hit you and your folks too hard and you didn't lose too much. Seriously.
then take us 2.5 hours to the nearest town.
Water problems aside, EV technology is slowly progressing.
Lots of EV here around start to pack battery packs large enough for ~250km (in my experience, I can usually get even more than the rated range, people with more aggressive style could get less) - that's about ~150 miles.
I've seen recently a Renault Zoe boasting about some brand new battery bringing up to 400km.
All these are smaller more in-city cars, Tesla's giant range monsters are far better than that.
Battery tech is getting better over time. We'll eventually reach the point where it covers your range needs.
My wife's Volt would probably have the torque to do it, if it had better tires, but I would suspect submerging it in the stream is a seriously bad idea.
Actually, Lithium batteries being extremely sensitive, manufacturers tend to pay a insane big amount of attention to make sure to correctly isolate them.
To the point that trying to salvage drowned Teslas seem to be
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Check the numbers. Transport CO2 in America, Tesla biggest market, has increased the last few years,and will increase again this year.
Fair market rate for a mature TSLA simply based on Ford is about $200. But if TSLA is more profitable than Ford (which absolutely seems to be the case) then the fair market value could be much higher. So the plan is to benefit in the short term from a short squeeze which could send the price above $500. And if the squeeze doesn't happen, the plan is to hold for future growth and cheaper taxes.