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Report Reveals Numerous Cases of Amazon Workers Being Treated in Ways That Leave Them Homeless, Unable To Work or Bereft of Income After Workplace Accidents (theguardian.com)

Several readers have shared a report: Vickie Shannon Allen, 49, started working at Amazon as a counter in a fulfillment warehouse at Haslet, Texas, in May 2017. At first, like many employees, Allen was excited by the idea of working for one of the fastest growing corporations in the world. That feeling dissipated quickly after a few months. [...] Nor is Allen alone. A Guardian investigation has revealed numerous cases of Amazon workers suffering from workplace accidents or injuries in its gigantic warehouse system and being treated in ways that leave them homeless, unable to work or bereft of income.

Allen's story began on 24 October last year when she injured her back counting goods on a workstation that was missing a brush guard, a piece of safety equipment meant to prevent products from falling onto the floor. She used a tote bin to try to compensate for the missing brush guard, and hurt her back while counting in an awkward position. The injury was the beginning of an ongoing ordeal she is still working to amend at Amazon. Over the course of a few weeks, Amazon's medical triage area gave her use of a heating pad to use on her back, while Amazon management sent her home each day without pay until Allen pushed for workers compensation. "I tried to work again, but I couldn't stretch my right arm out and I'm right-handed. So I was having a hard time keeping up. This went on for about three weeks," Allen said. Despite not getting paid, Allen was spending her own money to drive 60 miles one way to the warehouse each day just to be sent home. Once on workers compensation, Allen started going to physical therapy. In January 2018, she returned to work and injured herself again on the same workstation that still was not fixed.

211 of 359 comments (clear)

  1. Free Market by omnichad · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is the free market at work. Exactly as intended by the corporations in charge.

    1. Re:Free Market by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is the free market at work. It's ripe for unionization.

    2. Re:Free Market by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      It appears that there is more going on behind the curtain, than the booming voice is comfortable with the public knowing; why?

    3. Re:Free Market by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      The 'one size fits all' [approaches espoused in the echo chambers] never deliver as promised (this being the major recurring theme of "history"); the "little guy's" grandfathered right to a free market and absolutely minimal regulation from the government is without question; however, society also desperately needs a massive fucking Socialist noose wrapped around the necks of these multinational corporate fucks.

    4. Re:Free Market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Maybe older women shouldn't be working in a warehouse lifting heavy objects. But alas government forces employers not to discriminate.

    5. Re:Free Market by FudRucker · · Score: 2

      there are still laws as to how employees should be treated and i think Bezos via amazon is responsible and he should face the law because of any violations

      --
      Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    6. Re:Free Market by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Nothing is stopping that from happening now... except for the long line of other semi-skilled workers waiting to take their places.

      Then again, since we're experiencing a decent, hot-growing economy, and an ever-tightening labor market, Amazon may have to get their shit together before too long if they expect to keep employees... well, unless they go full robot in the warehouses, anyway.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    7. Re:Free Market by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Well, shipping is free if you're a Prime member...

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    8. Re:Free Market by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is the free market at work. Exactly as intended by the corporations in charge.

      This is the free market at work. It's ripe for unionization.

      Good luck with that ... Sentiment from several sources (Google: Kavanaugh anti-union), quoting from the first:

      Judge Kavanaugh routinely rules against workers and their families and regularly sides with employers against employees seeking justice in the workplace, including CWA members.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    9. Re:Free Market by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's free if you pay for it.

    10. Re: Free Market by c6gunner · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Which part of this is "the free market", and how exactly would a different financial system have prevented it?

      Also, don't you find the story a bit fishy? She injured her back counting things? Really? And then she couldn't work because she couldn't lift her arm? To count things? But she could somehow still drive 120 miles each day? Because a back injury which somehow paralyses your arm doesn't impact your driving ability?

      Sounds like fishing for workers comp ... which is the exact opposite of "free market".

    11. Re:Free Market by bobbied · · Score: 1

      This is the free market at work. Exactly as intended by the corporations in charge.

      Really? I don't think you are being fair. As I understand this there ARE laws about on the job injuries and ways to obtain such compensation from employers both by enforcement agencies and civil lawsuits.

      The problem I see with this story is that the employee has yet to exhaust their possible legal remedies with Amazon's Workman's compensation insurance and with Amazon itself. Yea, it seems Amazon is dragging it's feet and isn't all that concerned with safety, but this anti Amazon PR campaign is a bit premature looking to me.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    12. Re:Free Market by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Ignorance of the meaning of the word "can't" definitely qualifies as 'not being educated."

    13. Re:Free Market by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Well, shipping is free if you're a Prime member...

      Um.... Sir.. Not for everything, only stuff that Amazon chooses... AND it's not always 2 days anymore, it can be longer, much longer.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    14. Re:Free Market by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Really? I don't think you are being fair. As I understand this there ARE laws about on the job injuries and ways to obtain such compensation from employers both by enforcement agencies and civil lawsuits.

      I am being fair, even if a little sarcastic (plenty of commenters here think that injury liability is against a free and open market). There are laws but they aren't being enforced. Amazon has been investigated how many times in how many states? And what's come of it?

    15. Re: Free Market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He should just change his name to Walton and move to Arkansas. He'll fit right in.

    16. Re:Free Market by jareth-0205 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nothing is stopping that from happening now... except for the long line of other semi-skilled workers waiting to take their places.

      Ah well, that's OK then. People don't matter if there are spare people.

    17. Re:Free Market by lgw · · Score: 1

      This is the free market at work.

      This part of the "free market" is already regulated under OSHA in the US. There are plenty of regs around workplace safety, especially around items falling on you from above.

      Enforcement is a different issue, of course, but there are anonymous tip lines.

      There's also worker's comp, which she eventually took advantage of, which was created to cope with just such situations as minor injuries preventing work for a short time. (It's a rotten deal for permanent injuries, as lawsuits yield much higher awards.)

      Amazon is just terrible about fixing minor safety risks in their warehouses, but the regulatory protection is already in place. (Amazon is actually very good with risks to big to hide, like major structural damage to buildings, but that's a different topic.)

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    18. Re: Free Market by sjames · · Score: 1

      You can drive with one arm as long as your car is an automatic. You can only pick up some things with one arm. Not that hard to figure out.

    19. Re: Free Market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You haven't worked a physical job in awhile have you?

      When you get a relatively out of shape (average) 35+ year old adult person lifting and moving repetitively you get repetitive injuries that you would not necessarily get in a younger person. We see this all the time in terms of ladies in the office getting wrist problems as they get older. The tissue is no longer as elastic and it breaks like silly putty pulled on too fast/hard.

      What amazon is doing is criminal, and the entire site should be shut down until these issues are resolved. A company listens only to profit/loss they are cult like adherents to this and unless it costs them a large portion of money or causes severe interruptions to the work flow they won't do jack shit but lip service.

    20. Re:Free Market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      As a recent former Amazon worker, it was my experience they worked pretty hard at safety. They certainly paid a lot of money to the engineers that worked on safety systems. Eventually their warehouses will be completely safe when they have nothing but robots, and then everyone will be able to complain about them not hiring people instead of how they treated people. In the mean time, they treated me just fine, and there are 120,000 or so people in the DC's that would certainly prefer the job they have over not having that job.

    21. Re: Free Market by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      Which part of this is "the free market", and how exactly would a different financial system have prevented it?

      Also, don't you find the story a bit fishy? She injured her back counting things? Really? And then she couldn't work because she couldn't lift her arm? To count things? But she could somehow still drive 120 miles each day? Because a back injury which somehow paralyses your arm doesn't impact your driving ability?

      Sounds like fishing for workers comp ... which is the exact opposite of "free market".

      From TFA:

      "In the meantime, Allen has become homeless after a workplace accident left her unable to do her job."

      Yeah, she sure made out on her workers comp fraud! Maybe read the article before you just start making things up.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    22. Re: Free Market by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      1 in 6 workers in Europe is on public dole, most for stress or lower back problems, both notoriously difficult to actually prove.

      Also bleat about Kavenaugh, so don't rule that out as a driving force for this story at this moment.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    23. Re:Free Market by sexconker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Workers aren't always correct. Unions often become corrupt and bloated. Undocumented workers hurt citizens.

      What, specifically, has Kavanaugh done that is bad? Being anti-union isn't inherently bad. I say that as someone who is supportive of people's right to collectively bargain.

    24. Re: Free Market by sexconker · · Score: 1

      A failed scam doesn't mean it wasn't a scam.

      I'm not saying she was pulling a scam, but the fact that she's destitute isn't evidence that she wasn't.

    25. Re:Free Market by Catbeller · · Score: 2

      It was the free market at work in Adam Smith's time as well, as he observed. A free market always leads to emergent or direct collusion to fix prices as high as they can be. Applecart economics doesn't work at a macro level. The market is a pack of ruthless buggers who will steal your teeth when you're sleeping. This is why we have regulations, or we used to.

    26. Re:Free Market by Catbeller · · Score: 1

      Simple regulation is all that is needed, and what we can't get.

    27. Re: Free Market by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I don't think so. Confirmation bias is sufficient to explain deciding this story either way.

      FWIW, RSI injuries are not uncommon, and can be quite difficult (read expensive) to prove even where it's possible. Try to remember how long it took carpal tunnel syndrome to be accepted as a valid diagnosis.

      That said, an injury that is difficult to prove can easily be faked. And that happens too. But as she remained "unable to work" and became homeless, I tend to believe that her story is correct until I see evidence to the contrary.

      Please note that when Beyesian reasoners start with sufficiently different priors it can be the case that no amount of additional evidence will cause them to converge.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    28. Re:Free Market by HiThere · · Score: 2

      I have a dubious attitude to those who post using a handle. Guess how much I trust a shill called "Anonymous Coward".

      If you want to be believed, at least get a handle. Better, point to some externally verifiable sources of data.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    29. Re:Free Market by hdyoung · · Score: 1

      Sorry, unions are a dead and dying thing. For the time being, corporations have won that fight.

    30. Re:Free Market by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I'm not. Various of their policies have caused me to decide to not do business with them. And those were ill-effects on the "customers".

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    31. Re:Free Market by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but you are, in principle, though not in practice, wrong.

      If the monopoly controls the market by being more attractive so that any competitor goes broke, then it is a free market that is a natural monopoly. Network effects matter.

      If the monopoly uses it's monopoly power to cause others to squeeze out any competition, then it's not a free market.

      Monopoly is, in principle, orthogonal to whether or not the market is free. But I've never seen or heard of an example of a monopoly that didn't use external coercion to control the market.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    32. Re:Free Market by Monster_user · · Score: 1

      I think that was the point he was making,... Do you know of anyway to escape the consequences of that reality?

      Our population is growing. The more people you have, the more difficult it is to teach and to co-ordinate, and gain the trust thereof. How can you save the world when you have billions of people pulling against each other at all levels and classes? How do you progress when people believe business are to make money, as opposed to making a country?

    33. Re:Free Market by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Workers aren't always correct. Unions often become corrupt and bloated. Undocumented workers hurt citizens.

      Points taken.

      What, specifically, has Kavanaugh done that is bad? Being anti-union isn't inherently bad. I say that as someone who is supportive of people's right to collectively bargain.

      Well... The article Brett Kavanaugh Ruled Against Workers When No One Else Did cites several cases where Kavanaugh sides with corporations over the interests of workers, also noting:

      “Based on his record, we can expect that Judge Kavanaugh will continue to protect the interests of already powerful corporate CEOs instead of working families,” the Communications Workers of America said in a statement.

      That article (and several others, below) also talk about a case where Kavanaugh sided with SeaWorld and against OSHA when a trainer was killed (and, apparently, eaten) by an orca -- basically asserting that "he knew the risks".

      OSHA used what’s known as the general duty clause to cite SeaWorld for safety violations after the whale Tilikum killed trainer Dawn Brancheau in 2010. SeaWorld challenged the citations, but the appeals panel sided with OSHA, ruling that SeaWorld knew its protections for trainers like Brancheau were insufficient and that it could have prevented her death had it taken the proper steps.

      Kavanaugh disagreed. He compared working at SeaWorld to playing a sport like ice hockey that comes with inherent dangers, and, unlike his colleagues on the panel, argued that OSHA doesn’t have the legal standing to regulate it.

      “When should we as a society paternalistically decide that the participants in these sports and entertainment activities must be protected from themselves – that the risk of significant physical injury is simply too great even for eager and willing participants?” he asked.

      Jordan Barab, a former OSHA official during the Obama years, wrote Tuesday on his blog Confined Space that the SeaWorld case shows Kavanaugh to be “a threat to workers and to OSHA.”

      “Kavanaugh’s idea of making America great again apparently hearkens back to a time before the Workers Compensation laws and the Occupational Safety and Health Act were passed,” Barab wrote. “Back then employers who maimed or killed workers often escaped legal responsibility by arguing that the employee had ‘assumed’ the risk when he or she took the job and the employer therefore had no responsibility to make the job safer.”

      Maybe it's just me, but that's appalling. Can't wait for that precedent to be exploited, *especially* if Kavanaugh is confirmed to SCOTUS. Just get someone to sign something that says, "There is a risk of ..." and goodbye legal liability.

      Ford customer: The car shifted into Reverse by itself, backed over and killed my grandfather.

      Ford lawyer: (Pointing to sales agreement) He knew the risks.

      Ford Sales Agreement
      There is a risk that the vehicle transmission may unexpectedly shift from Park to Reverse, causing the vehicle to back over and kill your grandfather.

      Judge: Hmm... Let me check Kavanaugh in OSHA v. SeaWorld... Okay. Case dismissed.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    34. Re:Free Market by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Unionization is also a part of the free market. You just have to get the marketing out to all the other workers who want to be abused for less money. At one time this was possible, but in the intervening decades there has been a lot of counter marketing so that the workers who could benefit the most from collective negotiations are often the ones most opposed to it.

      Labor used to be the single issue that decided many elections, for those who only care about voting based on a single issue. Since both parties seem weak on labor that single issue has slowly been replaced by other hot button issues.

    35. Re:Free Market by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      While corporations always become corrupt and bloated.

    36. Re:Free Market by Max_W · · Score: 2

      ...Nothing is stopping that from happening now... except for the long line of other semi-skilled workers waiting to take their places....

      One can be as skilled as it gets, but being 50+ years old makes her/him a potential target of the ageism.

      Ageism is real. I had thought otherwise, but now I encounter it myself regularly. One has to be not only skilled but young, pretty, plus posses a baby face.

      People of advanced age still may mitigate this problem by being fit via exercise and diet.

      One can be young and not believing all this, but wait and see...

    37. Re: Free Market by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Given that she has, apparently, resorted to living in their parking lot, I'm thinking she has mental health issues rather than any physical problem.

    38. Re: Free Market by Calydor · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking if it WAS a scam she would probably have gotten better in time to pay rent and not lose her home, then gotten a new accident later when this attempt was forgotten.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    39. Re:Free Market by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      âoeWhen should we as a society paternalistically decide that the participants in these sports and entertainment activities must be protected from themselves â" that the risk of significant physical injury is simply too great even for eager and willing participants?â

      That's so shockingly ignorant of the law you have to assume he was being deliberately obtuse in order to push his personal agenda. It actually sounds like something a politician would say, rather than a judge whose job is to interpret the law.

      The law doesn't say people can't do dangerous things without creating liability. It says that when doing dangerous things a reasonable effort to prevent foreseeable injuries must be made.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    40. Re: Free Market by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      That kind of injury is quite common and well understood. Counting may have involved a lot of repetitive movement, and possibly some unpacking to count the number of items in a box or similar. This is quite common with things like checkout staff or workers on factory lines.

      The resulting injury can cause pain when performing certain movements but not others. The "back" isn't one organ or muscle, it's a whole collection with different parts being used for different things. I have some back pain myself and certain movements, like standing and bending to tighten a screw on an item on a desk at sitting height is now quite painful, but I can drive just fine.

      Unfortunately this kind of disbelief at injuries and disabilities is quite common and makes life very difficult for people suffering from them. I've had abuse for not wanting to give up my seat because I look outwardly "normal", and heard comments about people in wheelchairs faking it, especially if they stand up for some reason.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    41. Re:Free Market by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      There's also the freerider issue, wherein a labor contract can't hold a proper security contract. That is: the Union negotiates working conditions for all fitting a certain profile (job description, work responsibilities), and the security contract requires all fitting the bargaining unit to become dues-paying members (only for the basic union services; if you don't become a full member paying into things like the strike fund et al, you aren't able to vote in workplace decisions and aren't required to follow union rules). Many states now allow freeriders to benefit from the union contract without paying anything, and so the union must raise the union dues on all dues-paying members, resulting in more members bailing out of the union (avoiding payment). Rather than a deliberate vote, union membership falls so far the union withdraws.

      Generally, you can't stop workers from unionizing by replacing them (this leads directly to lawsuits and fines), and you can't replace unionized workers unless they have done something meriting discharge.

    42. Re: Free Market by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Which part of this is "the free market", and how exactly would a different financial system have prevented it?

      You don't need a different financial system; you only need protections against private abuse of the free market. That's what the NLRA is: groups of workers can operate together to become powerful, just as groups of administrators and managers operate together to become the balance of power in a corporation. Workers are more readily replaceable and have a difficult time organizing, hence why there are protections both for organizing and for the employer (against abuse by unfair labor practices by unions and workers).

    43. Re:Free Market by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      People malign unions for being politically active, often pointing to voluntary political contributions (your regular union dues can't be used for political purposes, and your political dues can't be compelled as a term of membership; the union must solicit from its members).

      The AFL-CIO is pushing for everything from minimum wage laws and comp time rules to criminal justice reform and prisons that are actually humane environments. I told them they're not asking for enough, and we had a small debate over what is politically-viable today (they think the politicians won't allow full-scale reform of our prisons, parole, pre-trial, and reentry systems; I've gone door to door talking to people about these things and there is an extreme degree of immediate acceptance among the people, which has more impact than what a few fat politicos think).

      Simple regulation requires mucking about with the iron triangle. Money buys you access, but won't get you legislation; you have to supply votes if you want politicians to actually do things for you. You let them speak with your community groups, you get them hundreds of constituent letters, you endorse them for their stance on a particular position. If you want to change the laws, you need to get the electorate behind a certain policy change and then demonstrate that desire of the electorate to the politicians so they know the votes are there.

      As a politician, the easiest way to maintain power is to run on a platform of solving the problems of the electorate and educating them about the solutions. They like transparency; and even when they disagree with you, they see that you're trying to do the right thing, and that you have reason for the policies you provide, and that you are listening to their problems and their input. You have to avoid telling everyone to not worry about it and let you handle the complex things their feeble minds can't grasp--in other words: don't be Nancy Pelosi--and instead show them the solutions and explain yourself. Many are bad at this, and so it takes a large amount of pressure from issue groups to drive them to change--and even then, they like to not rock the boat.

      They always think of the political implications first, instead of the technical implications. The political implications are you have to sell the damned thing to your constituents so you can stay in your seat and keep pushing; fair-weather politicians need to move over and let someone else drive.

    44. Re:Free Market by lgw · · Score: 1

      If it's regulated then it's not free.

      An overly-simplistic misunderstanding. A free market exists where the government isn't fixing prices, or choosing who gets to participate. All markets have rules.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    45. Re:Free Market by whitroth · · Score: 1

      Well, that, and the right-wing activist judges working to break unions, like the case that resulted in last week's refund of union dues.

    46. Re:Free Market by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Well... The article Brett Kavanaugh Ruled Against Workers When No One Else Did [huffingtonpost.com] cites several cases where Kavanaugh sides with corporations over the interests of workers, also noting:

      Ah, so in several cases he didn't blindly side with workers? In several cases he may have been the lone voice of reason? How about you provide an actual example?

      That article (and several others, below) also talk about a case where Kavanaugh sided with SeaWorld and against OSHA when a trainer was killed (and, apparently, eaten) by an orca -- basically asserting that "he knew the risks".

      Sounds like a good ruling to me. No OSHA reg is going to keep you completely safe when working with wild animals, near water, etc.

      Come on, try harder.

    47. Re:Free Market by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

      No, it's not.
      A true freemarket works by putting everyone to work who physically can, and having every last one of them LOSE MONEY working for profits going to someone else.

    48. Re:Free Market by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

      No. The "hot growing" economy is still underperforming 3 of the last 5 quarters of Obama, so things are worse, not better, for workers

    49. Re:Free Market by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

      Thanks. Truth needs to be heard

    50. Re: Free Market by lessthan · · Score: 1

      You were trying to incite doubt, but you really just revealed that you've never been in a job with a prolonged physical component.

      --
      Space Shuttle was a program that strapped humans to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math
    51. Re:Free Market by 101percent · · Score: 1

      By that time the robots will have taken over or offer enough leverage for Amazon.

    52. Re:Free Market by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Probably, yes. That's the microeconomics. The macroeconomics has seen this again and again for thousands of years, and we all know structural change brings shifts in employment yet we keep finding more jobs instead of fewer; it's not always the same people filling those jobs.

    53. Re:Free Market by aquacrayfish · · Score: 1

      For that matter, corporations aren't always correct either. And I'm quite sure they're more bloated than unions.

    54. Re: Free Market by sjames · · Score: 1

      Now can you overdramatize the risks of brushing one's teeth?

  2. Doesn't surprise me by OzPeter · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have an Amazon fulfillment center near me and after looking at some of the requirements for their professional job listings and hearing stories from people in my network I decided that I would stay well clear of them. They seem to be on the low end of the work/life balance quality spectrum as well as paying peanuts.

    --
    I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    1. Re:Doesn't surprise me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I have an Amazon fulfillment center near me and after looking at some of the requirements for their professional job listings and hearing stories from people in my network I decided that I would stay well clear of them. They seem to be on the low end of the work/life balance quality spectrum as well as paying peanuts.

      Many many many people do not have that luxury. They get any job they can.

    2. Re:Doesn't surprise me by OzPeter · · Score: 2

      I have an Amazon fulfillment center near me and after looking at some of the requirements for their professional job listings and hearing stories from people in my network I decided that I would stay well clear of them. They seem to be on the low end of the work/life balance quality spectrum as well as paying peanuts.

      Many many many people do not have that luxury. They get any job they can.

      I know and I still have sympathy for these people even though I have the luxury of choice.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    3. Re:Doesn't surprise me by Penguinisto · · Score: 2

      Many many many people do not have that luxury. They get any job they can.

      Unless they're on a sex offender registry (or similarly ostracized in the workplace)... why? Unemployment is at record lows, and still dropping as I type this.

      The labor market is fairly tight right now, and all indications are that it's only going to get tighter. This means more competition for workers' time and attention, and if Amazon becomes known as a shithole to work for, they're going to have an impossible time finding people willing to work for them as time passes and as things continue on their current economic trajectory.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    4. Re:Doesn't surprise me by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The labor market is fairly tight right now, and all indications are that it's only going to get tighter. This means more competition for workers' time and attention, and if Amazon becomes known as a shithole to work for, they're going to have an impossible time finding people willing to work for them as time passes and as things continue on their current economic trajectory.

      It's a rather strange work market at the moment. Fewer people are unemployed but average wage (adjusted for inflation) is dropping quite fast.

      It may be that for the lower third- the alternates to Amazon are just as bad. They can be paid peanuts or circus peanuts. Work in bad conditions or terrible conditions. You would think that with so many people employed wages would go up to compete, and usually they do, but they're staying low for now for some reason.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    5. Re:Doesn't surprise me by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Many many many people do not have that luxury. They get any job they can.

      Unless they're on a sex offender registry (or similarly ostracized in the workplace)... why? Unemployment is at record lows, and still dropping as I type this.

      The labor market is fairly tight right now, and all indications are that it's only going to get tighter. This means more competition for workers' time and attention, and if Amazon becomes known as a shithole to work for, they're going to have an impossible time finding people willing to work for them as time passes and as things continue on their current economic trajectory.

      Exactly this. As a friend of mine said back in 2000 when getting a job was hard and they where not handing out raises where we worked... "Don't worry, it's a buyer's market right now, but eventually it will be a seller's market, best be ready." Well, it took 18 years but it's a seller's market for what I got to sell.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    6. Re:Doesn't surprise me by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      I have an Amazon fulfillment center near me and after looking at some of the requirements for their professional job listings and hearing stories from people in my network I decided that I would stay well clear of them. They seem to be on the low end of the work/life balance quality spectrum as well as paying peanuts.

      Many many many people do not have that luxury. They get any job they can.

      I know and I still have sympathy for these people even though I have the luxury of choice.

      I have a little less sympathy for those in this situation who also voted "R" in recent elections. Sure, they got suckered, but that's also on them. They can reap what they sowed.

      D or R has nothing to do with this.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    7. Re:Doesn't surprise me by lgw · · Score: 1

      Yeah, an unfortunate consequence of allowing monopolies to thrive.

      Amazon has something like 5% of the retail market. What does that have to do with monopolies? Somehow Amazon keeps coming up in stories about monopolies, and I don't get it. They're smaller than Walmart, in retail.

      AWS is very much the dominant player in "cloud", but Azure has enough market share that you can't call AWS a monopoly either.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    8. Re:Doesn't surprise me by lgw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Shit jobs are shit jobs. I've worked my share of them. Any job you can learn on the job without prior training is going to suck, both in pay and working conditions, because you can be replaced with anyone who can fog a mirror.

      Very few people can only do unskilled labor, but if your IQ is low enough then that's what you're stuck with. Nothing but sympathy for anyone in that boat, and it's the biggest looming economic problem in the US, because those are exactly the jobs that robots will replace in the next couple of decades.

      If you're smart enough to learn a skill, it's on you to get out of that unskilled job. We could do a better job helping people get training, especially for the trades, but community colleges aren't terrible here. But we as a society better figure out how to help those who aren't that smart (and only giving them money isn't enough - most people still have a work ethic, and need something to do to feel that they're contributing).

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    9. Re:Doesn't surprise me by reanjr · · Score: 1

      The unemployment rate is bullshit. The workforce participation rate is what's relevant, and that's near a 40-year low.

    10. Re:Doesn't surprise me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't understand this....Amazon isn't the only job in town....

      If somehow it was, move to another town, there ARE jobs out there, do what it takes to find and get one that suits you and your lifestyle and capabilities.

      Look at the well-to-do young man with no ties to his community! Moving is *hard* once you're past 30 and settled. Moving for an Amazon-wage-level job is foolish. You're better off accepting Amazon than giving up all the things that give life meaning (unless you know you're one of the unlucky few who will be ruined by the company).

    11. Re:Doesn't surprise me by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      D or R has nothing to do with this.

      The Republicans are decided more anti-worker. Trump has been appointing, and the Senate confirming, noticeably white, male, conservative judges at a record pace (with some analysis) If Kavanaugh gets appointed to the SCOTUS, then things may (will probably) be even less beneficial for workers, as noted by the articles I mentioned here.

      So, ya, the "D" and "R" matter - overall.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    12. Re:Doesn't surprise me by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      Amazon had this problem well before an R was in office. You're just tying to warp the situation to fit your narrative

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    13. Re:Doesn't surprise me by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      Amazon had this problem well before an R was in office. You're just tying to warp the situation to fit your narrative

      Agreed that this issue w/Amazon has persisted for a long while. I'm just saying that it probably won't get any better, and may get worse, under the current administration. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that. In addition, it is true that many people who voted for Trump are the same people that will be hurt by his, and his Administration's) policies (including tariffs). It's also true that this administration is appointing many judges who will probably not be sympathetic to injured/wronged people like in TFA about working at Amazon - again, many of whom voted for Trump.

      I see your point, but I'm not "warping" anything. I believe the narrative is valid.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    14. Re:Doesn't surprise me by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      I'm not disagreeing with the your narrative, just that it is relevant in this case

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    15. Re:Doesn't surprise me by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      "Unemployment is at record lows, and still dropping as I type this."

      Only if you are dumb enough to use the u2 instead of the u6. And even that is well-known to deliberately not count people. Why everyone keeps repeating that obvious lie is beyond me.

      There are a few industries that actively need employees, ones which cannot be automated away yet and which few people are going into, like mechanic or handyman. Maintenance man is the most dangerous job in America. Cop is something like #13 on the list, for comparison.

      Actual unemployment is still plenty high. Underemployment (where people are going ever-deeper into debt to pay their bills) is even higher. The economy is nowhere near as healthy as it is portrayed. We are well-overdue for a depression. And what a coincidence, the dust bowl is back...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    16. Re:Doesn't surprise me by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      I'm not disagreeing with the your narrative, just that it is relevant in this case

      From TFA:

      Her back is permanently injured from the incident. “They refused to give me the paperwork for workmen’s comp. They cut my short term disability after five weeks. I was supposed to get it for 26 weeks.

      ...

      An MRI he received in April 2016 from a private doctor noted he tore the meniscus in his left knee, but Amazon would not pay his medical fees or accept his workers compensation filing. His next court date in his legal efforts to obtain workers compensation and medical reimbursement from Amazon is in September 2018.

      These things often end up in court. The conservative judges being appointed (up and down the judicial ladder) seem to favor corporations over workers. Nothing exists in isolation.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    17. Re:Doesn't surprise me by sexconker · · Score: 2

      Trump has been appointing, and the Senate confirming, noticeably white,

      So what? Are you racist?

      male,

      So what? Are you sexist?

      conservative judges

      So what? Would you complain if the shoe was on the other foot?

      at a record pace

      So what? Would you rather he not fill the vacancies of Obama (and prior) judges? Would you rather our courts not have the staffing needed to function?

    18. Re:Doesn't surprise me by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      ... white, male conservative judges ...

      That was in the Washington Post article. Take it up with them.

      So what? Would you rather he not fill the vacancies of Obama (and prior) judges? Would you rather our courts not have the staffing needed to function?

      By and large, Republican Senators delayed Obama's court nominations. Take it up with them.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    19. Re:Doesn't surprise me by sexconker · · Score: 1

      You posted it, so I'll take it up with you. You clearly thought that line was relevant. Why?
      Further, I don't have a general problem with the appointments. Why would I take anything up with anyone?

      You're the one coming here bitching about shit, but all I see is racism and sexism and unjustified scaremongering.

    20. Re:Doesn't surprise me by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1
      You're pretty defensive about someone quoting a simple fact from an article that most of the newly appointed judges are more white, male, and conservative:

      But as a group, the new judges are indeed whiter, more male and more conservative than recent presidents’ nominees

      Not racist or sexist, just a fact -- from an article analyzing the new court nominations. You're the one who seems a bit "upset". Why so touchy?

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    21. Re:Doesn't surprise me by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      The Republicans are decided more anti-worker.

      More anti-worker than Democrats? That's pretty much impossible.

      Trump has been appointing, and the Senate confirming, noticeably white, male, conservative judges

      And how exactly is that "anti-worker"?

    22. Re:Doesn't surprise me by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I've noticed that their developer hiring practices seem designed to filter out all but the most naive graduates. They make you jump through hoops and do ridiculous tests like you were still at school. Then the pay and conditions are crap anyway. I guess some graduates hear the name and think it's prestigious or will look good on their CV.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    23. Re:Doesn't surprise me by sexconker · · Score: 1

      It's just a fact you thought was relevant? Why did you think sex and race were relevant?
      Again, I don't have a problem with the appointments.

      I'm merely pointing out the fact that YOU seem to have a problem with them, yet while you claim they're "anti-worker" you provide no evidence.
      The only facts you have, and the only things you actually have taken issue with, are "white", "male", "conservative", and being appointed in the needed numbers.

    24. Re:Doesn't surprise me by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      "Unemployment is at record lows, and still dropping as I type this."

      Only if you are dumb enough to use the u2 instead of the u6. And even that is well-known to deliberately not count people. Why everyone keeps repeating that obvious lie is beyond me.

      U6 is down too and almost to an all time low for 30 years. Only being beat by the height of the .com boom. They pretty well seems to track each other. Median adjusted household income also seems to be at a high similar to the .com boom and the housing boom. The only real thing that stands out by looking at the historical data is wondering what bubble is about to burst.

  3. Re:An injury to one is the concern of all. by OwP_Fabricated · · Score: 1, Troll

    It's almost like we have a GOP-controlled government that got a SCOTUS appointment and now has another, which will guarantee a court that will basically start from the Janus case and make all labor organization illegal because it infringes on imaginary people (corporations).

  4. The gulag is SOOO much better! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Or maybe they could be fighting for food in Venezuelan late-stage socialism.

    1. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What happened there was not real socialism, it was corruption and stupidity using socialism as a facade, just like in USA we don't have real capitalism, we got corruption and stupidity using the word freedom as a facade.

      So if it's impossible to have "real socialism" (because all the failed efforts weren't "real socialism"), WHY THE FUCK DO IDIOTS KEEP PUSHING FOR IT???

      You can't win the argument by saying all failed attempts at socialism weren't "real socialism" - because what you're really saying is "real socialism" can't reasonably be attained.

      Or you're just trying to fool people: TRUST ME! IT WILL WORK THIS TIME! AND IF YOU LIKE YOUR DOCTOR, YOU CAN KEEP YOUR DOCTOR!"

    2. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Give it time; Bezos is talented but he's not God...

    3. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by lgw · · Score: 1

      and you think capitalism does work? enjoy licking those boots!

      I don't think "capitalism" means what you think it means. It does not imply unregulated free markets, or anarchy.

      Capitalism is a system where the means of production are owned and controlled through money - you can start or buy any business just by having the money to do so. Regulating the operation of those businesses is still within capitalism.

      Contrast feudalism, where the means of production are acquired through military victory. Contrast socialism, where the means of production are acquired through political influence. Contrast communism, where the means of production are acquired by genocidal murder of tens of millions of people.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    4. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by sjames · · Score: 2

      There are many countries where a mixed system is working just fine.

    5. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by reanjr · · Score: 2

      No true capitalist fallacy mixed with no true socialist fallacy. Good job, dude!

    6. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Contrast communism, where the means of production are acquired by genocidal murder of tens of millions of people.
      That is nonsense, comunism only means that means of production are property of fhe people, like it should be. And hence there is no point/way to aquire them.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    7. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by meglon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The first problem is, you don't understand (pure) socialism. Everyone is part owner of all resources, and means of production, and everyone's needs are met. The ultimate government form goal for socialism is self-management; one where there is no central government. So, i'm sorry you're such a fucking idiot that you don't understand the words you use... but that's on you.

      Communism, on the other hand, has the additional factor of a "revolution" needed to overthrow the previous form of government... as opposed to what someone below wrote about it (as they don't seem to understand what it means either, so you're not alone in your fucking ignorance). A revolution seems to be exactly the same as what the far-right fascists in the US have been espousing for years, although they want to overthrown a democratically elected government and the Constitution (all the while calling themselves patriots because they're too fucking stupid to understand what that word means as well).

      But, and here's the other problem.. your strawman argument that everyone keeps pushing for socialism shows that, again, you're a fucking idiot. No one is suggesting pure socialism is the way to go, and a lot of people (not you, because you're a fucking idiot that doesn't understand that words have meanings) understand the very significant differences between what complete dipshits like you think socialism is, and what it actually is.... as well as the differences in the countries you dipshits always list off (N Korea, Russia, and now Venezuela) and the actual idea of socialism not needing a central government.

      What people are pushing for is along the Nordic model of democratic socialism, where the larger issues are dealt with by the government, so that people can live decent lives. It works there, it would work here... if we didn't have so many fucking fascists on the right who think they're the only ones that deserve anything. It works with Social Security, it works with Medicare/Medicaid.... people on the right are just too fucking stupid to see that, unless you threaten to take those things away from them; they'd never willingly give up their OWN little slices of socialism.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    8. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by meglon · · Score: 1

      And yet, it produced fucking idiots like you....

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    9. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by meglon · · Score: 2

      Regulating the operation of those businesses is still within capitalism.

      You should try explaining that to republicans.. their heads will explode (which wouldn't be such a bad thing for this country).

      Contrast feudalism, where the means of production are acquired through military victory.

      The means of production are provided for by the peasants who the nobility allow to live (depending on their whim). We are closer to feudalism than capitalism.

      Contrast socialism, where the means of production are acquired through political influence.

      In socialism, the ownership of production, as well as ownership of resources, are shared by everyone in society; as Jesus teachings go:

      Acts 4:32–35: 32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. 34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

      Or as Marx paraphrased: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs

      Contrast communism, where the means of production are acquired by genocidal murder of tens of millions of people.

      Communism is the same as socialism, with the additional twist of a revolution to remove the previous form of government... much like what the treasonous far-right has been claiming they want for decades; again, the difference is, they want to overthrow the Constitution and democracy.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    10. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by kilfarsnar · · Score: 2

      What happened there was not real socialism, it was corruption and stupidity using socialism as a facade, just like in USA we don't have real capitalism, we got corruption and stupidity using the word freedom as a facade.

      So if it's impossible to have "real socialism" (because all the failed efforts weren't "real socialism"), WHY THE FUCK DO IDIOTS KEEP PUSHING FOR IT???

      You can't win the argument by saying all failed attempts at socialism weren't "real socialism" - because what you're really saying is "real socialism" can't reasonably be attained.

      Or you're just trying to fool people: TRUST ME! IT WILL WORK THIS TIME! AND IF YOU LIKE YOUR DOCTOR, YOU CAN KEEP YOUR DOCTOR!"

      We do have real socialism. We have Social Security, and Medicare, and Medicaid, and SNAP, and unemployment insurance, to name a few programs. They work quite well, as long as people in government don't work against them. For example, the Republicans like to tell people that Social Security is unaffordable and will go "bankrupt". It's not true but it works to turn people against a system they have opposed on principle from the start.

      Socialism works fine as long as it is properly regulated, just like Capitalism. Unfortunately, people who don't want the public to understand that government can work for them have been funding propaganda efforts for decades to convince people that Socialism doesn't work, and is the same thing as Communism, which is the same thing as the Soviet Union, which everyone knows was really bad.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    11. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by kilfarsnar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I do enjoy not starving to death and dying from polio. Modern technology is also quite nice.

      People starve to death under Capitalism, and avoided starving to death before Capitalism was a thing. Salk's team developed their vaccine at the University of Pittsburgh, which is state funded. Development of modern technology has relied heavily on research grants from the federal government. The Internet we are using now likely would not have come about without a government research initiative.

      None of these things have resulted solely from Capitalism. They required investment from the government, i.e. Socialism, in order to become viable products.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    12. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by Dr_Terminus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, the US was pretty backwater until WWII, at which point we became the biggest economy in the world because all of our competitors' industrial capacity got wiped out during the war.

    13. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but the US does have real Capitalism. It doesn't have a real Free Market, except in illegal drugs and a few other small areas.

      That said, Oligarcho-Capitalism is probably worse than Free-Market Capitalism, but it's hard to be sure because there's never been a large scale example of Free-Market Capitalism. This is probably because no government can allow such a source of funding to go untapped. (But anarchy is unstable, even on a fairly small scale. It usually fails badly even within a family.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    14. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by MoaDweeb · · Score: 1

      Be fair, USA made a fair bit of money out of WW1 as well,all those weapons were purchased by the Entente. The UK had to pay for a lot of the stuff in the early part of WW2.

      Blood and treasure = Russian blood & the worlds treasure.

      US gives weapons for free only to dictators and Israel.

      --
      New Zealanders are well balanced with a chip on each shoulder. One represents Australia, the other the rest of the world
    15. Re: The gulag is SOOO much better! by Kielistic · · Score: 1

      Hah, far less people are starving on the streets in western capitalist societies than anywhere else in history. Few people worship capitalism as flawless but it is a hell of a lot better than the alternatives with 100% failure rates.

    16. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by meglon · · Score: 2

      You mean the derelicts on the coast like in California.. .the third largest oil producing state in the US, and 5th largest economy in the world? Those derelicts who pay lots more in taxes so you cunt republicans in red states can give businesses tax breaks and blow jobs at the same time? Them?

      At least it's not like Alaska, who gets a metric shit ton more money back from the federal government than they put in, while taking part of the proceeds from "their" oil sales and giving it outright to the people in their states... which arguably should be money they should spend on those things the federal government pays for, instead of being leeches off blue states.

      https://wallethub.com/edu/stat...

      Nordic states do derive an enormous amount of money from the sale of resources, unlike the United States. And that money there goes to helping their society. Here, we let private industry rape the resources and not compensate the people for anything remotely near the value. Conservative cunts are why the US can't have good things; you're too busy giving away everything to the already wealthy hoping you'll at least end up with a reach around while they're fucking you up the ass.

      It's not because they're unbelievably Caucasian... it's because they're unbelievably empathetic to the people around them, you know, exactly opposite of what conservatives in the US are like.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    17. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by meglon · · Score: 1

      Awww, what's the matter wittle snowflake... did your feelings get hurt? Want me to be more "PC" to you so you don't have to change your diapers again? Too fucking bad. If cunts like you can't understand something, and use your power of communication to either lie, or to prove yourself completely fucking ignorant.... well.. too fucking bad.

      It's not really idealistic to try to, or rather, have to, explain what a word means because some shit stain that wants to use it is so fucking stupid they don't know what it means. But i get it, you don't understand what you read, and you think your opinion matters. Fixed that for you, dipshit.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    18. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by bongey · · Score: 1

      Yep because the government is so great at dealing with big issues. Oh "fascists on the right" pot met kettle.

    19. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by bongey · · Score: 1

      Funny the article says SS will go bankrupt by 2034 instead of 2022. Reality congress will vote in 2033 to add SS to the national debt.

    20. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by terrycarlino · · Score: 1

      Ah the No True Scotsman fallacy

      No true socialist would be corrupt.

    21. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      US is one of those countries.

    22. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Please explain why same consideration should not be given to national brand of socialism on the exact same grounds you are selling?

    23. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      >It's not because they're unbelievably Caucasian... it's because they're unbelievably empathetic to the people around them

      While it's not necessarily causation, there's a very clear correlation between all people being similar ethnically and culturally and high level of empathy. Case to point: Sweden having the highest rate of white flight in known world.

    24. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by Tanon · · Score: 2

      What people are pushing for is along the Nordic (sic) model of democratic socialism,

      What's that then? Because last time I checked, the Scandinavian (presumably what you meant) economies look absolutely nothing like this:

      Everyone is part owner of all resources, and means of production, and everyone's needs are met.

      If you think the economy of Sweden - far and away the most socially liberal of the Scandinavian countries - follows a Socialist model, then you're living in a different world from the rest of us. Because here, pretty much 99% of the world's economies are operating under Capitalist principles (including China), with the only real differentiation being the size of government regulation of private industry. Social welfare schemes - which the Swedes consider to be very important - don't have anything to do with Socialism; there's nothing in Capitalism that precludes the existence of charities or similar bodies.

    25. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by sjames · · Score: 1

      No, it isn't working so well here. Probably because so many are working so hard to return us to the stone age.

    26. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      The first problem is, you don't understand (pure) socialism. Everyone is part owner of all resources, and means of production, and everyone's needs are met. The ultimate government form goal for socialism is self-management; one where there is no central government.

      You're hiding behind weasel words like "self-management". Socialism, like capitalism, has a power structure and hierarchy; it's inevitable, it's the only way complex organizations can function. Every socialist state that has ever existed has had such a power structure. Every utopian commune has had such a power structure.

      The difference between socialism and free market capitalism is that, under socialism, you get into power through corruption and nepotism, while under free market capitalism you get into power by making stuff that other people actually want to buy voluntarily. And that's why socialist states inevitable fail.

    27. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      There is a difference between what a perpetual motion machine is and its ultimate goals, and the half baked shit that's been called a perpetual motion machine in the past

      There, fixed that for you.

      Socialism is always, ever only going to be "half baked shit". Your pipe dream of "real socialism" is incompatible with reality and reason.

      But "worthless fucking idiots like you" just don't understand such simple basic facts about the real world.

    28. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by mjwx · · Score: 1

      The first problem is, you don't understand (pure) socialism. Everyone is part owner of all resources, and means of production, and everyone's needs are met. The ultimate government form goal for socialism is self-management; one where there is no central government. So, i'm sorry you're such a fucking idiot that you don't understand the words you use... but that's on you.

      Communism, on the other hand, has the additional factor of a "revolution" needed to overthrow the previous form of government... as opposed to what someone below wrote about it (as they don't seem to understand what it means either, so you're not alone in your fucking ignorance). A revolution seems to be exactly the same as what the far-right fascists in the US have been espousing for years, although they want to overthrown a democratically elected government and the Constitution (all the while calling themselves patriots because they're too fucking stupid to understand what that word means as well).

      Communism (in theory) is pure socialism. Its just that communism in theory doesn't work in practice due to human nature. People are different, trying to meet all their differing needs on a bureaucratic schedule is impossible. So communism becomes authoritarian in enforcing this like Russia and Cuba or it becomes a communism in name only like China.

      Revolutions, or at least perversions of democracy are required for any extremist government to gain power, be it left or right wing.

      No successful government has ever managed to implement a pure socialist or pure capitalist economy because they simply dont work in reality and are ultimately at odds with any democratic system. Both systems fail for the same reason, people are different, have different needs, wants, requirements, so on and so forth although it should be noted that whilst communism has been tried and failed, a pure capitalism has never even gotten off the ground as it's that much of a horrible idea. As such every successful economy in the world is a mixed economy, mixing both socialist and capitalist policies (technically militaries, police and emergency services are socialist, paid for by all, used by those who need it).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    29. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      If you think it isn't working well in US, you are either very naive and ignorant of the world, or you're comparing it to utopia that doesn't exist outside of your head.

      Things can certainly work better than in US, but not by much. Differential between Western countries is tiny when compared to the rest of the world, or the same countries in the past.

    30. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      Funny the article says SS will go bankrupt by 2034 instead of 2022. Reality congress will vote in 2033 to add SS to the national debt.

      The article also says that the trust fund can be prevented from running out (not the same as bankruptcy) if the funding mechanism is adjusted. SS running out of funds is a political choice, not a fiscal one.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    31. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      Whaa? Investment from the government is not socialism. Socialism is government control of the means of production. The internet was started so that US right wingers could nuke the Soviet Union and survive the retaliatory strike. That's not even close to socialism.

      When I talk about Socialism, I am talking about the government taxing the populace in order to fund services that the government provides. Call it Democratic Socialism if you like. That term seems to be in vogue these days. I don't think anyone in the US is seriously advocating that the government take over all production of goods and services. Not even China does that. It's just that we need to fill the gaps where Capitalism falls short of serving society.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    32. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by lgw · · Score: 1

      That's not what history reveals. But then, I'm talking about how systems actually work, since I'm an engineer.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    33. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by sjames · · Score: 1

      Things could work much better IN the U.S. if we had proper healthcare and a secure social safety net.

    34. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Define "proper" and cite examples of workable society that is as multiracial and immigrant-friendly as US that has comparable systems.

      Imaginary utopias don't count.

    35. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by sjames · · Score: 1

      Pretty much anywhere in Europe will do. They all cost less and have better outcomes than the U.S.

    36. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Then as an engineer you should stop mixing up "communism" (a system of markets, kind of society and ownership of property) with "totalian dictatorship" (a kind of government system).

      Stalin, Mao and most importantly Pol Pot killed people, not "communism" ...

      E.g. the dead in Vietnam where not caused by communism, but by Americans bombing communists.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    37. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by lgw · · Score: 1

      Totalitarian dictatorshps that murder tens of millions are what "communism" looks like in the real world. There's no evidence that any other kind of communism can exist in the real world, only evidence of the genocide kind.

      You do realize that "not real communism" has become a meme, right? It's that level of silly these days?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    38. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      In Cuba no one died ... is that evidence? East Germany, no one died. Italy, Spain, Greece: no one died. Is that evidence?

      The people who died in Russia and especially China died due to a thing we call: revolution
      Or the follow up after math of the revolutions ...
      The same amount had died if they had chosen to be not communist ... perhaps more.

      Why don't you read a book about what happened in Russia or China after the revolutions instead of blaming a "social system" which you seem not to understand?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    39. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Everywhere in Europe fails the criteria on merits, and we're seeing that as multiculturalism advances in Europe, social security and medical system worsen rapidly due to massive pressures of increased free riding. Do you have any actually realistic options that fit the bill?

    40. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by sjames · · Score: 1

      Anywhere in Europe. Racism notwithstanding.

    41. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Your insulting name calling and utter opinionated ignorance nonwithstanding, I live in what is internationally recognised as one of the best countries in Europe when it comes to efficiency and quality of outcomes of healthcare system and am telling you what is going on here today. I'm currently in a queue to get my teeth checked by dentist. When I was 18, and immigration was very low, I could get a yearly appointment within a week of calling to reserve one.

      Today, the waiting time is "longer than six months" for "bi-yearly check" (and you cannot get teeth checked yearly by dentist even if you ask in public system any more). I'm currently on the fifth month of waiting, with no notification that I will get my time any time soon. Primary reason - influx of immigrants who's teeth are in awful condition by our standards. With healthcare that prioritises people based on their needs, it prioritises people who do not pay into the system and are here to abuse it.

      And people who do pay into the system get tossed into the back of the line, and keep getting pushed back, because there's always a new arrival with bad teeth that needs care more than you do. Who will be probably be marked for deportation in a couple of years.

      And for the record, we have it really well compared to our beloved western neighbours in Sweden. Their healthcare is in utter shambles, to the point where their expecting mothers literally come here to give birth, because while you can afford to save on your healthcare, you cannot afford to take a risk with your baby.

    42. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by Notabadguy · · Score: 1

      Do you know WHY gets Federal money? It's pretty much all defense spending. Because of DoD assets in Alaska. The studies that say Alaska gets more than everyone else are based on federal dollars spent in that state, aggregated per capita.

      Alaska has a low population density, but significant DoD activity, so all those DoD dollars (spread over a low per capita) make a big per capita number.

      But that number is only worth whatever you think Federal dollars spent per capita as a metric is worth. California receives the most federal aid - but you can spin that around to make it look like Alaska gets "more" if you change the metric.

    43. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by sjames · · Score: 1

      Many people in America don't get their teeth checked AT ALL until one hurts. Then it just gets pulled because they can't afford to get it fixed. Sound good?

    44. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      This your one last chance to redeem yourself. Stop giving me one liner slogans, and actually go into details of the issue. Because right now, you look like an indoctrinated and rather stupid individual who doesn't have a coherent thought of his own and can only regurgitate slogans. In this case, as is usual, devil is as usual in details, and I'm not going to trust you for details when you have already proven to be utterly ignorant on principles. Especially considering the well established stereotype on "shiny American teeth vs crappy looking European teeth".

      So how many are able to get their teeth done in a reasonable fashion, vs how many that can't get them done at all? Also, you seem to assume that people don't have their teeth pulled because they couldn't get timely care because the system was clogged. Yet I personally know a man who was just in that situation. And guess what? Public health care doesn't do cosmetic treatments and prosthetic front teeth are considered cosmetic, even if damage to the tooth was because of fuck up of the long wait time to get initial problem taken care of.

      Guy in question had to save money for about two years to get prosthesis done. I know this because he was fairly young, and it was wrecking his love live, as missing a front tooth is apparently quite a turn off for ladies in their early 20s.

    45. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by sjames · · Score: 1

      Here's the deal. I called you racist because you blamed multiple cultures in general rather than the rather more specific situation that Europe has seen refugees coming in in huge numbers. Naturally, refugees tend to not be employed right away since they first have to learn enough of the language and culture to be employable, but their ethnicity isn't really the leading factor there.

      Even knowing the language, I'll bet if you had to escape your current location by stealth through a warzone and after a year or so managed to get to the U.S. to apply as a refugee, you'd be unemployed and in need of plenty of healthcare when you got here.

      I don't have exact figures, but about half the people I know are missing a tooth.

    46. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      I guess this is my confirmation of the fact that all you have is one liners, and you have no actual understanding of the subject. As you literally went straight onto yet another one liner with zero ability to discuss the topic in any reasonable depth.

      But I suppose this is to be expected of the person who immediately defaults to cries of "racism" when hearing about real social issues. When you are utterly ignorant of the subject matter, and can only regurgitate things you have no actual understanding of to address them, the only way to win the argument is to call anyone presenting views you don't like names in hope they go on defensive.

    47. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by sjames · · Score: 1

      I guess to you 2 paragraphs = 1 line. Whatever gets you through the night. You're clearly determined to believe whatever your prejudices lead you to believe and so you must discount any contrary input. Good luck with that!

      Note that nowhere did I deny that there are real social issues when a large number of any sort of refugees are brought in quickly. You were blinded to that because you for some reason need to believe it is their ethnicity that is the problem, not their number.

    48. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by lgw · · Score: 1

      In Cuba no one died ... is that evidence? East Germany, no one died. Italy, Spain, Greece: no one died. Is that evidence?

      Interesting fantasy.

      The people who died in Russia and especially China died due to a thing we call: revolution

      In your fantasy, Stalin totally didn't kill 25 million after he came to power. In your fantasy, there weren't millions of deaths from starvation after the pruge of the Kulaks (plas the deaths of all the Kulaks).

      You really need to educate yourself on Communism. I recomment The_Gulag_Archipelago. It's a hard read, and a long one, but it's full of truth. And don't forget the deaths of anyone in the USSR caught reading it .

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    49. Re:The gulag is SOOO much better! by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Stop playing the idiot.
      Stalin killed a lot of people.
      He had done the exact same thing under any other label, be it Royalist, Democrate, Rebpublican etc.
      Why you pretent the label of his regime is the matter, when actually his insanity and paranoia is the culprit, is beyond me.

      Of course there where millions of death due to starvation, and: what has that again to do with the label "communism"? The exact same thing had happened if non communist regime had won the revolution.

      Can't be so haed to grasp.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  5. Re:Thanks Vickie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    She was injured again on the same workstation. It sounds intentional to me. It's kind of like smacking your head on a low doorframe, backing up, clearing the cobwebs, and then continuing forward and smacking your head again. It doesn't even sound real.

  6. Hey, iphones and che guavera shirts need to be.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ....cheap... for the modern communist to still be able to afford soy lates and dream of other people paying for their stuff.

    Communism, the great way for EVERYONE to be poor. *

    * = except for the party elite.

  7. Worker pay and benefits climbing at fastest pace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Worker pay and benefits climbing at fastest pace in 10 years, ECI finds

    Does anyone have any idea what could have happened 10 years ago that caused worker pay and benefits to stagnate for a whole damn decade?

    Anyone?

    Bueller?

  8. Re:49 and having to do manual labor to live by OwP_Fabricated · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I suggest we start with anonymous slashdot posters.

  9. Re: 49 and having to do manual labor to live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    +1

    Some stories deserve sympathy, but at 49, she can fuck off.

  10. Inefficient by ShawnTolidano7995 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Look, I'm the first person to yell about poor working conditions for Amazon factory workers, but this particular cited case dances on a fine line. If the equipment you are provided does not let you do your job adequately, you raise that up to management as high as it is required to go, usually the equipment gets repaired. If not, instead of spending the gas to drive 120 miles and not get paid, or let your back get hurt by picking things up constantly, you spend $30 and buy a laundry guard and use that until they fix your workstation. 120 miles at 20 miles a gallon is 6 gallons of gas at $3 is $18 a day. After 2 days, you spent less on the laundry guard and didn't hurt your back.

    Unions would help.

    1. Re:Inefficient by DavidFarmer · · Score: 2

      Agreed. But a Union wouldn't help. Unions start off as good idea, but over time they become corrupted and no longer serve the good of the workers they supposedly represent.. Ex - UAW, and various public-sector unions.

    2. Re:Inefficient by pnutjam · · Score: 2

      That's the fault of the members, just like our current broken political system is the fault of the citizens. We've all let things go on cruise control for too long.

    3. Re:Inefficient by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      Agreed. But a Union wouldn't help. Unions start off as good idea, but over time they become corrupted and no longer serve the good of the workers they supposedly represent.. Ex - UAW, and various public-sector unions.

      Ya, but the United States is also a "union" -- of local/state and federal governments -- and ... oh wait. Just saw the part about, "no longer serve the good of the workers they supposedly represent". Never mind.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    4. Re:Inefficient by barc0001 · · Score: 1

      That's a corruption problem in specific unions being used to scapegoat the whole concept. Many countries in Europe have huge rates of unionization and yet don't have the problems you allude to. 2/3s of Sweden's workers are unionized for example, and last I looked that was a pretty damn nice place to live and work... Germany has almost double the unionization rate of the US and does quite well.

    5. Re:Inefficient by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      The system works well enough elsewhere. We just need to start noticing when someone creeps in and takes a big steaming dump in the soup pot. Lately they're making eye contact while they sit on our soup pot and people still eat it with a "what else am I going to do" shrug.

      There are plenty of ways to fix things, every other western country has done some of them.

  11. I Know Amazon is Evil . . . by hduff · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I certainly believe that she was treated unfairly, but if she returned after recovery to work on the same broken machine, why did she believe that things would end differently, that she would not be injured in the same manner again? Even if she were just not smart enough to know any better, her supervisor would seem to me to be criminally negligent in not having a machine repaired that injured her before and then returning her to that machine. And by "criminally negligent", I mean that he knowingly placed her in a situation that he knew world harm her.

    Something does not seem right here.

    --
    "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
  12. Difficult to take many WC cases at face-value... by Darlok · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The hysteria of frequent media smear pieces notwithstanding, it's tough to take articles like this seriously at face-value. Lots of broad generalizations and impossible-to-prove (or disprove) allegations of straight-line relationships between an alleged safety issue with an employer, and outcomes like homelessness or disabling injury.

    Unfortunately, part of my job is working with EPLI (Employment Practices Liability Insurance) carriers and risk managers. For every actual issue reported, there are multiple instances of people "gaming the system", fraudulently claiming workplace injury or discrimination, or filing repeated false HR reports to attempt to build up a "history" of abuses, being terminated for their bulls**t, and then pointing to that "history" as the REASON for their termination. Maybe I'm just too used to seeing the seedy underside of the Workers' Comp business, but to take light-on-details reports like this, and draw inferences of chronically deficient, or criminal, practices on the part of the large employer, is hard.

    Most employees want to do a good job, be fairly compensated, and be appreciated at work. But a small percentage view work as a scam. Those aren't just the ones that spoil the party for everyone, but they're ALSO the ones most likely to turn up in press reports, because "going loud" and getting a company to pay them to go away is part-and-parcel of the scam.

    If these folks were legitimately injured and abused by dumb-ass managers at Amazon, then I feel for them. But it's equally likely that a papercut became a "permanently debilitating hand injury", if historical reports like this are any guideline. Sad, but true.

    --
    Notice: Your mouse has been moved. Windows will now restart so this change can take effect.
  13. Re:49 and having to do manual labor to live by iggymanz · · Score: 1

    but they are supported, by their mothers upstairs, and not reproducing.

  14. Re: 49 and having to do manual labor to live by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Look, I'm as libertarded as they come, but come on. Not every worker can graduate to middle management by 40. Some manual labour still has to be done these days, no reason to abuse the workers.

  15. Re: Worker pay and benefits climbing at fastest p by iggymanz · · Score: 1

    failure? there were some huge wins for certain bankers. look at the whole picture.

  16. Malice or incompetence? by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 2, Insightful

    She used a tote bin to try to compensate for the missing brush guard, and hurt her back while counting in an awkward position.

    So instead of alerting someone and getting the dangerous condition fixed, she tried to work around it herself and got hurt.

    In January 2018, she returned to work and injured herself again on the same workstation that still was not fixed.

    Good grief. You'd like to credit her with enough intelligence not to just turn around and do exactly the same thing that had just put her on the lam for 3 months, but then you'd probably have to conclude she was fishing for a payout from the big A.

    She currently lives out of her car in the parking lot of the Amazon fulfillment center. “They cost me my home, they screwed me over and over and I go days without eating.”

    Or then again, maybe she's just a bit... off.

    1. Re:Malice or incompetence? by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      So instead of alerting someone and getting the dangerous condition fixed...

      They were alerted. They did nothing.

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    2. Re:Malice or incompetence? by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      What makes you think that one paragraph is a god's-eye view, completely omniscient, leaving out nothing? You're making a judgement on someone you've never met and never will meet, about a situation you did not and will not ever witness with your own eyes, based on a single account. Tell us, do you work for Amazon? If you do then we have a better idea what some of the problems there are.

    3. Re:Malice or incompetence? by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What makes you think that one paragraph is a god's-eye view, completely omniscient, leaving out nothing?

      One paragraph? You and I must be reading different articles. This was an extensive hit piece. They had every incentive to include every bit of dirt in they could find -- and went out of their way to fluff up the few little scraps they had to work with.

      You're making a judgement on someone you've never met and never will meet, about a situation you did not and will not ever witness with your own eyes, based on a single account.

      Yes. Her account. The one that would by definition be the most biased toward her you could hope to get.

      Don't be naive.

    4. Re:Malice or incompetence? by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Yeah sure you read the entire article and not just what's on /., sure you did. Regardless you're still making a judgement out of your ass, knowing essentially nothing. Knock that shit off.

    5. Re:Malice or incompetence? by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      Yeah sure you read the entire article and not just what's on /., sure you did.

      Well, yes, Sparky, I did. And the incontestable proof of that is that the last quote in my original post is from the article, not from the Slashdot summary .

      You really didn't think that one through, did you?

    6. Re:Malice or incompetence? by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      I don't need to 'think through' the fact that you're still basing your shitty opinion on basically nothing . . . you're full of bias

      Ah, so I can expect to look through the comments and see you equally riding herd on people drawing negative conclusions about Amazon based on this article, right? Right? Oh, snap. Why do you make this so easy?

  17. A Few Issues Here by BlazeMiskulin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1) OSHA. If it's a safety violation, don't just ignore it (or jury-rig a solution)--call it in.

    2) It took her "a few weeks" to "push for" workman's comp? That's a day-one call. If you don't get it, you call the state Dept. of Labor (whatever the name is in that particular state).

    3) When she came back, the guard was still not in place? a) refuse to work until it's fixed. b) see point (1).

    Would a union help this? Probably. But unions also come with downsides (I've been a member of 3 unions and interacted with a few hundred). The plaintiff could have dealt with this a long time ago if she'd just called the appropriate government agencies--they *love* to fine big corporations for safety violations. Unions fought for--and got--these laws. But they're meaningless if people don't use them to protect themselves.

    Honestly? 10 minutes on Google should have given this woman all the correct answers she needed to solve the issues. The original safety issues fall on Amazon, but after that? Most of her problems are the result of her "waiting for someone to fix it", rather than using the tools available to her.

    1. Re:A Few Issues Here by supremebob · · Score: 1

      I wonder how helpful her local OSHA office in Texas would have been, considering that Texas is one of the more pro-business red states. It would have been worth a shot, anyway.

      In the blue state I live in, a guy I used to work with basically forced our employer to get him a ergonomic workstation and chair by filing an OSHA complaint. They ended up firing him for gross incompetence later, but by filing that case he probably bought himself a few months where the company was afraid of a retaliation suit.

    2. Re:A Few Issues Here by BlazeMiskulin · · Score: 2

      OSHA is a federal agency, so it frequently attracts staff (especially inspectors) that aren't on the same side as the state businesses. That's a double-edged sword, certainly, but it may have been a balance in this situation.

      And... That guy you used to work with probably had fair standing for an unlawful-termination suit under a host of ADA and Whistleblower laws & regs. If you need to call the feds, do so--but document *everything* you can. "A few months" shouldn't matter if you can provide credible evidence of retaliation. Not proof, just "credible evidence". That's enough to bring out the lawyers--and that costs the company money.

      It only takes a couple lawsuits (or just one) for management to realize that it's far cheaper to just buy the desk. $500 desk.... $5M lawsuit that costs a minimum of $50k in lawyer fees before it even gets to court.... Hey! Here's that desk you want. Hell... a devious company worth its salt would have written policies for these sorts of situations that say "Of course we'll provide it for you.... just meet these non-discriminatory criteria that have been approved by our legal department and are in no way labyrinthine and incomprehensible."

    3. Re:A Few Issues Here by luther349 · · Score: 2

      nice dream there but thats not the realty of these kind of jobs. the dept of labor will not do a dam thing to help you. the state gets to many kickback from company's like this you ever hear of the saying rite to work = rite to work for nothing. as for snitching them out to osha yea they will be forced to fix the problem. enjoy your termination shortly after.

    4. Re:A Few Issues Here by BrianMarshall · · Score: 1

      No kidding.

      --
      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" -- HST
    5. Re:A Few Issues Here by BlazeMiskulin · · Score: 1

      A) I might take you more seriously if you knew the difference between a "rite" and a "right", a "dam" & a "damn"--not to mention basic grammar.

      B) I've "fought this fight" 3 times. I won twice. The other time I wasn't given the opportunity to directly contest the employer, and chose not to pursue it further.

      If you fight against an actual wrong and get slapped down, I support your right to seek justice. If you act like a sheep, expect to get treated like a sheep. I've got zero sympathy.

      The notion that "We can't protest because the big bad corporations will be mean to us" is absolute bullshit. To put it colloquially: Y'ain't willing to fight for it? It ain't yours.

      I got no stomach for sheep--less'n they're properly seasoned and roasted on a spit, sliced thin, and served on pita bread with onions, tomatoes, and tsatziki sauce.

  18. Re:I Know Amazon is Evil . . . by rogoshen1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Maybe in her brain it went like this
    >work for business owned by world's richest man
    >drive 60 miles for shitty job and low pay
    >get injured at work
    >recover
    >get injured again
    >sue
    >retire in luxury from millions of bezo-bux due to settlement from company, in its attempt to avoid (even more) bad press.

    Not to defend amazon (they're horrible) or attack someone who's basically down on their luck.. but there must have been a job closer to home that paid a little bit better?

  19. Re:An injury to one is the concern of all. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's almost like we have a GOP-controlled government that got a SCOTUS appointment and now has another, which will guarantee a court that will basically start from the Janus case and make all labor organization illegal because it infringes on imaginary people (corporations).

    Straw-man much?

    Janus merely noted that coerced union membership is unconstitutional.

    Nothing's stopping Amazon's employees from unionizing.

  20. Re: An injury to one is the concern of all. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The real benificiary of unions are unions bosses and thugs. The union bosses get mustard on their chin at the polo grounds while the regular worker gets shafted.

  21. Re:49 and having to do manual labor to live by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

    ar ar argy bargy prosperity gospel ar rar protestant work ethic rarrar the poor are evil. That's what you sound like.

  22. Re: 49 and having to do manual labor to live by ChrisMaple · · Score: 2

    At 49, actions that wouldn't have caused injury earlier in life start becoming dangerous - repetitive stress injury and various strains due to using body parts that have been inactive for years. She can be forgiven for developing her first injury. Going back and hurting herself again. not so much.

    It does appear that Amazon has been a bit callous or careless here; the weeks without pay would not have happened if she had a good manager.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  23. Re:49 and having to do manual labor to live by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

    Or, she could just live in her car, like other Amazon workers are doing.

    --
    "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
    --- Jerry Garcia
  24. Good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Now americans knows how employees from third world countries work and feel. Good luck with that, LOL!!!!!!

  25. Re:An injury to one is the concern of all. by bobbied · · Score: 1

    It's almost like we have a GOP-controlled government that got a SCOTUS appointment and now has another, which will guarantee a court that will basically start from the Janus case and make all labor organization illegal because it infringes on imaginary people (corporations).

    Straw-man much?

    Janus merely noted that coerced union membership is unconstitutional.

    Nothing's stopping Amazon's employees from unionizing.

    Actually, I understand that the latest was really only about collecting union dues from paychecks without explicit permission. The right to organize or being a member of a union wasn't effected, nor was a union's right to negotiate on behalf of their members. What WAS effected was a host of unions loosing income because they where collecting dues from non-members under the pretense of it being a union shop.

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  26. Re:49 and having to do manual labor to live by Fruit · · Score: 1
  27. Re:I Know Amazon is Evil . . . by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 2

    Actually 60 miles would be, say 2 gallons of gas, about $6. Toss in wear and tear on the car and a local job for $1/hr less would still come out ahead.

    Fast food and Walmart pay pretty well for entry-level type jobs (~$10/hr), people with brains will generally make manager after a short while, and there always seem to be vacancies. I dunno why someone would pick literal back breaking work over that for less pay, unless they've done something to get blacklisted from retail/food service (caught robbing a cash register once?).

  28. Re: Worker pay and benefits climbing at fastest pa by bobbied · · Score: 2

    Worker pay and benefits climbing at fastest pace in 10 years, ECI finds

    Does anyone have any idea what could have happened 10 years ago that caused worker pay and benefits to stagnate for a whole damn decade?

    Anyone?

    Bueller?

    I'll bite, but the problem started about 20 years ago... With the creation of the "subprime mortgage" which was needed to loan money to unqualified borrowers, backed by two Federally backed mortgage companies. A pile of money got loaned to people who couldn't pay it back and real estate prices shot though the roof as the market was awash in cheap money loaned by banks, converted into questionable securities backed by the fed. Why did banks do this in the first place? Anybody have a clue how this could take place, banks loaning money that would never get paid back?

    Bueller?

    Bueller?

    Here's a hint.... WHO demanded that subprime borrowers be given loans and why?

    Here's a statement: What happened at the end of Bush's administration is the house of cards finally fell, but the building of that structure took YEARS so the cause of the problem wasn't the economy and wasn't really Bush's fault (except in that he didn't see and avoid it). The REAL reason happened years before when banks started loaning money to unqualified people and why do you suppose they did that?

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  29. Re: An injury to one is the concern of all. by lgw · · Score: 4, Funny

    Did Abe Lincoln fight for the unions? Of course not.

    Well, he didn't carry a rifle, but I'm pretty sure he was on the Union side. Not sure what schools teach these days, of course.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  30. It's a pretty bad example by guruevi · · Score: 1

    She got injured because she didn't speak up or refuse to work (which would've been protected in court), then she eventually got herself on workers comp (which takes 1 doctors visit), she earned money without needing to commute, she got medical expenses paid by ObamaCare. What is the problem exactly?

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  31. Re: Worker pay and benefits climbing at fastest pa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Worker pay and benefits climbing at fastest pace in 10 years, ECI finds

    Does anyone have any idea what could have happened 10 years ago that caused worker pay and benefits to stagnate for a whole damn decade?

    Anyone?

    Bueller?

    I'll bite, but the problem started about 20 years ago... With the creation of the "subprime mortgage" which was needed to loan money to unqualified borrowers, backed by two Federally backed mortgage companies. A pile of money got loaned to people who couldn't pay it back and real estate prices shot though the roof as the market was awash in cheap money loaned by banks, converted into questionable securities backed by the fed. Why did banks do this in the first place? Anybody have a clue how this could take place, banks loaning money that would never get paid back?

    Bueller?

    Bueller?

    Here's a hint.... WHO demanded that subprime borrowers be given loans and why?

    Here's a statement: What happened at the end of Bush's administration is the house of cards finally fell, but the building of that structure took YEARS so the cause of the problem wasn't the economy and wasn't really Bush's fault (except in that he didn't see and avoid it). The REAL reason happened years before when banks started loaning money to unqualified people and why do you suppose they did that?

    DEMOCRATS

    Barney Frank stating Fannie Mae isn't going to fail:

    'These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."

    And, umm, yeah, Bush et al did see it coming:

    2003:

    New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae

    The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.

    Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.

    And another attempt in 2005:

    S. 190 (109th): Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005

  32. Re:49 and having to do manual labor to live by reanjr · · Score: 1

    You, sir, are a fucking moron. Your myopic outlook has fallen to the level of degeneracy.

  33. Or maybe it's the only job she could get? by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    I mean, at some point occam's razor rings true.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  34. There's a long history of people who alert by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    of such things getting fired. She doesn't live out of her car because she's a little off, she's doing it because she doesn't make enough money to afford a place to live.

    People don't expect to be treated this way by a company as large as Amazon in America. You've got it pounded into your skull from birth this is the greatest country on planet earth from day 1. Nobody wants to believe that somebody in America could be taken advantage of to the point where they can't eat, can't afford a place to lay their head and repeatedly injure themselves. I mean... you didn't, did you?

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    1. Re:There's a long history of people who alert by Darlok · · Score: 2

      Uh uh... sorry. It's not like Haslet TX is the armpit of nowhere, and Amazon is the only employer in town. It's on the edge of the DFW metroplex. As plenty of others have indicated up-thread, she could have gotten a job at Burger King, or WalMart, or very likely some nice quiet job that requires no lifting and no skills, like a page in a library, or receptionist or filing clerk in one of 10-zillion companies. We're at ~4% unemployment, in case you haven't seen the news -- there are more jobs right now than people able to fill them.

      In 2008, I'd believe it. In 2018, if she's living out of her car, it's because she's holding out for a 6- or 7-figure settlement from the mega-corporation that "wronged" her.

      Go find Haslet on a map. Tell me that there aren't thousands of jobs that someone, even with an injury/disability, could get, to afford the ~$500 average rent in that area. Or wait, I'll do it for you: https://www.ziprecruiter.com/c... 1030+ jobs within 25 miles of Haslet, TX.

      Lovely attack piece by the Guardian, but sorry... no sale.

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  35. Re:49 and having to do manual labor to live by datavirtue · · Score: 1

    It builds character.

    --
    I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
  36. Predictable by dristoph · · Score: 1

    All these Slashdot commenters jumping in front of this story like it's a bullet, just giddy to defend the international megacorp. I'm sure Bezos is very grateful for the free service.

  37. Re: Worker pay and benefits climbing at fastest pa by reanjr · · Score: 1

    Bush not only didn't see it and didn't avoid it, he took additional actions, such as military adventurism and tax cuts which exacerbated the problem.

  38. Re: Worker pay and benefits climbing at fastest pa by sjames · · Score: 2

    And of course it had NOTHING to do with lenders setting time bombs on the loans, lending money they didn't even have, or talking people into McMansion loans rather than starter homes they might have had a chance of paying off.

    Note that it wasn't just (or even mostly) poor people who got nailed when the bubble popped. It was also middle class (former) homeowners and commercial properties. Then there's the whole robo-signing thing and banks trying to foreclose on properties they didn't even hold a mortgage on.

    The situation with commercial properties was the really crazy part. Because of the screwy criteria for foreclosure, renters were actually raising rent on properties when tenants left even though they were barely 50% occupied and so driving even more commercial tenants out.

    And of course, the whole deal of questionable financial instruments being created and fraudulently rated as AAA when they were more akin to junk bonds didn't help.

    That was all related to de-regulating the banks, not requiring small loans to less well qualified borrowers.

  39. Re: 49 and having to do manual labor to live by sjames · · Score: 1

    It does appear that Amazon has been a bit callous or careless here; the weeks without pay would not have happened if she had a good manager.

    The weeks without pay and still having to commute to and from work every day probably had something to do with returning to work before she was healed up as well.

  40. Re:Difficult to take many WC cases at face-value.. by Darlok · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Look, you can believe what you want to believe. There are certainly real cases, where real people have been hurt by actual negligence, or discriminated against with true malice. It happens, and those people deserve to be protected. There are lots of resources to help those people, and whatever the newspaper says, there are far more gov't departments that tend towards over-reacting with severe enforcement, moreso than turning a blind eye to true workplace violations.

    But you have to recognize that when you credulously accept every story about injury and discrimination at face-value, you're not helping the real victims -- you're hurting all of the people who REALLY HAVE been wronged by dumping resources, attention and time on cases that distract from real problems.

    There's just too many problems with this story. There are thousands of vacant jobs, requiring few or no skills, in the DFW market. A 60-mile commute in that area, for a specific job, makes too little sense because of how dense that area is. Rents are not that high -- $500/month median rent for a 1Br/1Ba, which is less than 33% of even a $10/hr job working 35-hours per week. She claims to have willingly gone back to doing an un-safe job, even assuming the employer was stupid enough to allow that to occur -- and, in terms of safety gear, that "all important" brush guard that the article hangs its hat on, isn't actually an OSHA-recognized piece of safety equipment!!

    I see the horrible crud that happens to people every day, and I do count my blessings. But you do nobody any good when you get outraged and demand action based on "investigative journalism" like this crap. It has every hallmark of trying to make the "Amazon is evil" point, and too many warning flags that no sane person (or employer) would ever actually commit. If this piece is even 75% accurate, then it should be making the point of needing better mental-health counseling in TX, not one about workplace safety.

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  41. Re: Worker pay and benefits climbing at fastest pa by bobbied · · Score: 2

    Bush not only didn't see it and didn't avoid it, he took additional actions, such as military adventurism and tax cuts which exacerbated the problem.

    Military adventurism? You mean the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions? You act like we got into those just for the thrill of blowing stuff up..

    Tax Cuts? How on earth did that make the situation with the subprime mess worse? And Didn't the next administration not do the same things and more?

    And you are totally discounting the facts behind how this whole house of cards got built and haven't admitted to the players or their motives in the setup phase. Had this house of cards not been built in the first place, there would have been no problem.

    So What exactly is the Problem you are discussing? It doesn't seem to be what I'm discussing.

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  42. Re:I Know Amazon is Evil . . . by luther349 · · Score: 1

    his how this place is. clearly having her on that machine was a problem but rather then move her to one of the many other areas they let the problem get worse.

  43. Re:Difficult to take many WC cases at face-value.. by luther349 · · Score: 1

    good for you but amazon is trash. its one of the worst working environments you can think of.

  44. Typical elitism by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Not everyone is suited to a fancier job. The worker's share of profits has been decreasing since time was time. She could have had a partner who abandoned her, with whom she was previously engaged in building a life. Any number or combination of factors could have put her in this position, and there but for luck goes you.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  45. Re: Worker pay and benefits climbing at fastest pa by bobbied · · Score: 1

    We have a winner here in the A/C's post. You are correct on all counts and exactly what I was driving at.

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  46. Re:Difficult to take many WC cases at face-value.. by Darlok · · Score: 1

    That's wonderful... but just because Amazon is a dismal working environment, doesn't mean that, as a company, they're also criminally stupid. I could name dozens of companies that I'd never work for on my worst day. Which makes it even more interesting that this Guardian article tries to paint Haslet TX as some kind of isolated podunk town, where Amazon is the only employer in town and employees make 60-mile commutes for the only work they can get.

    It's on the edge of the DFW metroplex. There are, literally, thousands of un-skilled jobs within 25 miles of the Amazon facility. Pick one and apply. Pretending like Amazon has a warehouse full of mis-treated slaves that can't do anything else is more than slightly disingenuous.

    Amazon being a terrible company doesn't mean that most of the "tragedies" in this article hold water.

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  47. Re:An injury to one is the concern of all. by Kernel+Kurtz · · Score: 1

    Actually, I understand that the latest was really only about collecting union dues from paychecks without explicit permission. The right to organize or being a member of a union wasn't effected, nor was a union's right to negotiate on behalf of their members. What WAS effected was a host of unions loosing income because they where collecting dues from non-members under the pretense of it being a union shop.

    I'm Canadian and I have not studied this ruling in detail, knowing only what I have seen on the news, but I'm assuming that while people will be able to forego paying union dues while still retaining the benefits of the union collective bargaining on their behalf, they probably will not be eligible for the other things that paying union dues provides, such as group insurance plans, a mediated grievance procedure, representation for disciplinary matters, strike pay in the event of job actions, etc., nor would they have a vote in choosing who is representing them at the bargaining table.

    Am I correct in this assumption?

  48. Re:Amazon has a LONG HISTORY of ABUSE. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Recently worked there, I kind of enjoyed it.I never saw anyone cry, never witnessed brutality or abuse. Free cereal in the mornings, free beer on Friday. Worst office space I ever had. If you hit metrics people pretty much leave you alone. Never saw them waste money, but they never let money stand in the way of progress at any cost. Never saw anything quite like it. Left because I wanted a shorter commute not because I disliked Amazon in any way.

  49. Re:An injury to one is the concern of all. by bobbied · · Score: 1

    Actually, I understand that the latest was really only about collecting union dues from paychecks without explicit permission. The right to organize or being a member of a union wasn't effected, nor was a union's right to negotiate on behalf of their members. What WAS effected was a host of unions loosing income because they where collecting dues from non-members under the pretense of it being a union shop.

    I'm Canadian and I have not studied this ruling in detail, knowing only what I have seen on the news, but I'm assuming that while people will be able to forego paying union dues while still retaining the benefits of the union collective bargaining on their behalf, they probably will not be eligible for the other things that paying union dues provides, such as group insurance plans, a mediated grievance procedure, representation for disciplinary matters, strike pay in the event of job actions, etc., nor would they have a vote in choosing who is representing them at the bargaining table.

    Am I correct in this assumption?

    I believe you are correct, but I don't work in an effected shop myself and I'm not an employment lawyer nor did I play one on TV.

    Also, this ruling only applied to government employees. Private employer / union contracts and situations are not affected by the legal reasoning used for this.

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  50. Re:Trump should kick Bezos the bozo ass by FudRucker · · Score: 1

    i agree, trump is a criminal too

    after the French revolution of 1789 some military officers asked Napoleon what he is going to do to get rid of all the criminals, and Napoleon said he will "hunt them down with bigger criminals"

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
  51. The Haves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Most of the comments here make me sick.
    No one here has ever had a shit job to get by? Had she complained she would have got less hours. Less hours equals less pay. How they got her to work and not compensate her for it is illegal in most parts. Why is it not here?

    All of you anti-union and why not complain to the supervisor retards have no fucking idea what the real world is like for the vast majority of jobs out there.

    If only employees could get together and strengthen their bargaining power.

  52. Re:An injury to one is the concern of all. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    It remains legal to collect dues for Union activities.

    What is now illegal is for a Union to collect dues and use them for political purposes.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  53. Re:I Know Amazon is Evil . . . by HiThere · · Score: 2

    If I've been reading the reports correctly, fast food and similar places generally ensure that you work less than 20 hours a week at an irregular schedule. So you've got to juggle two irregular hour jobs, neither of which will provide health insurance, workers comp, or other "full time employee" benefits.

    I think you need to re-figure the costs/rewards.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  54. And here's the crux of Kavanaugh's dissent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    In my view, the Department of Labor's unprecedented assertion of authority to proscribe SeaWorld's whale show is triply flawed: First, it departs from longstanding administrative precedent governing the extent of the Department's authority. Second, it irrationally and arbitrarily distinguishes (i) close contact between trainers and whales in SeaWorld shows from (ii) contact between players in the NFL or speeding in NASCAR races, for example, which the Department still proclaims as exempt from regulation under this statute. Third, the decision green-lights the Department to regulate sports and entertainment activities in a way that Congress could not conceivably have intended in 1970 when giving the agency general authority to ensure safer workplaces.

    But you go on, quoting over-the-top, pejorative, emotional, factless bullshit such as "“Kavanaugh’s idea of making America great again apparently hearkens back to a time before the Workers Compensation laws and the Occupational Safety and Health Act were passed,”

    ORLY?!?!

    That's utter FEELZ!!!, devoid of fact. And does absolutely nothing to refute Kavanaugh's legal claims.

    It's childish pounding the table and yelling like hell

  55. The social contract was established decades ago... by HotNeedleOfInquiry · · Score: 1

    The employer pays for workers compensation insurance. The employee and the employer pay for Social Security. Both worker's comp and SS disability pay long and short term to support an injured worker. In return, the worker does not sue the employee.

    --
    "Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
  56. Re: An injury to one is the concern of all. by murdocj · · Score: 1

    You sound like the people who think vaccines are worthless because no one gets polio or the measles. Guess why that happens.

  57. Re:Hey, iphones and che guavera shirts need to be. by Max_W · · Score: 1

    ....cheap... for the modern communist to still be able to afford soy lates and dream of other people paying for their stuff.

    Communism, the great way for EVERYONE to be poor. *

    * = except for the party elite.

    K. Marx wrote - "I am not a Marxist". You are right, the implementation of "communism" in Eastern Europe with the hostile surrounding environment was a failure. But it does not negate current social problems and contradictions.

    Building a library with free access for poor people, or cycling paths in a city, so that people can use bicycle for free, or community stadiums, etc. are also elements of what could be called a practical communism for the lack of a better word.

  58. welfare state at work, actually by ooloorie · · Score: 1

    It's not an example of the free market at all, it's an example of the social welfare state at work.

    Companies like Amazon are forced by law to for all sort of accident and disability benefits and government programs that are supposed to take care of workers when they are injured on the job. Why should Amazon on top of all that still provide private benefits?

    If you get injured on the job in Washington State or California, go to the state government for help, they collect enough money ostensibly for helping you if something should happen. If you don't like what you get from your state government, complain to them.

  59. Re:Hey, iphones and che guavera shirts need to be. by ooloorie · · Score: 2

    You are right, the implementation of "communism" in Eastern Europe with the hostile surrounding environment was a failure.

    "Communism failed because capitalism didn't subsidize it enough." You people would be funny if you weren't so f*cking eil.

    Building a library with free access for poor people, or cycling paths in a city, so that people can use bicycle for free, or community stadiums, etc. are also elements of what could be called a practical communism for the lack of a better word.

    Those things also tend to be corrupt boondoggles and wastes of taxpayer money. So, yes, excellent examples of "practical communism".

  60. Re:An injury to one is the concern of all. by bobbied · · Score: 1

    No sir.. Sorry, the latest ruling says Unions cannot collect from dues public employees via payroll deductions at all, unless they have written permission from the employee. They already had to refund non-members for the funds they spent on political things. Now they simply cannot collect "dues" from employees who do not authorize the payroll deduction up front.

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  61. Re:An injury to one is the concern of all. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Only until they put an accounting wall between their political activities and union work.

    They were previously required to refund those employees that demanded it...if you think that was easy, you've never worked anywhere near a public employee, union shop.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  62. Re:An injury to one is the concern of all. by bobbied · · Score: 1

    Never said the rules where easy for the unions to follow before. But they are easier now. Payroll now only sucks off the union dues by people who have requested it. One would assume that this would reduce the scope of the problem and keep refund request to a minimum because those who are not interested in supporting any union activity now can opt out by not requesting the deduction in the first place.

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  63. Re:Hey, iphones and che guavera shirts need to be. by lessthan · · Score: 1

    There is a better word. Socialism.

    --
    Space Shuttle was a program that strapped humans to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math
  64. Re:Hey, iphones and che guavera shirts need to be. by Max_W · · Score: 1

    So no bicycle paths, no stadiums, no libraries, just rich people inside expensive cars.

    I am almost sure you did not read "Les Misérables" by Victor Hugo. I mean the orginal text in French.

  65. Re:Hey, iphones and che guavera shirts need to be. by ooloorie · · Score: 1

    So no bicycle paths, no stadiums, no libraries, just rich people inside expensive cars.

    To the degree that infrastructure and education should be financed by government (and some of it should), it is not "communism" to provide these things, it is local politics and local taxes. That is, municipalities should spend scarce resources on clearly necessary infrastructure and services, not the kinds of gimmicks for the wealthy you demand.

    And useless gimmicks for wealthy people is what you advocate. The rest of us are better off without having our money wasted on such boondoggles, driving our regular cars (and regular bicycles) on regular roads, paying for our entertainment out of our own pockets, and getting books on the Internet for free on our E-readers.

    I am almost sure you did not read "Les Misérables" by Victor Hugo. I mean the orginal text in French.

    Ah, I see your problem: you confuse 19th century French literature with a meaningful economic and political analysis of 21st century America.

    And I'm sorry that French must have been such a struggle for you that you actually think it's worth mentioning what languages you read books in. For multilingual folks like myself, what language one reads a book in simply doesn't even register.

  66. Wage slaves by NewYork · · Score: 1

    This is why Corporations oppose UBI; They need https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slaves

    https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/07/04/why-the-world-should-adopt-a-basic-income

  67. Marxâ(TM)s diagnosis of capitalismâ(TM)s by NewYork · · Score: 1

    Marx argued that capitalism is in essence a system of rent-seeking: rather than creating wealth from nothing, as they like to imagine, capitalists are in the business of expropriating the wealth of others.
    https://www.economist.com/books-and-arts/2018/05/03/rulers-of-the-world-read-karl-marx