EU Regulators To Study Need For Action on Common Mobile Phone Charger (reuters.com)

EU regulators plan to study whether there is a need for action in the push for a common mobile phone charger following a lack of progress by phone makers towards this goal, EU competition chief Margrethe Vestager said. From a report: The European Commission has been pushing for a common charger for nearly a decade as it cited the more than 51,000 tons of electronic waste yearly from old chargers as well as the inconvenience to consumers. iPhone and Android users have long complained about using different chargers for their phones.

Comments

Do they mean the cable?

[b0s0z0ku]

Most chargers have either USB-A (large) or USB-C output, with an appropriate cable to mate it to the phone, which is either micro-USB or USB-C.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[jellomizer]

Even the Cable, You either have Micro-USB, USB-C or Thunderbolt (for Apple)
The direction that Apple is going in as well with others, is wireless charging. So we can have the wireless charger with a normal USB to Micro USB connection.
Because size isn't an issue with a charging station.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[b0s0z0ku]

Wireless-only charging is fucking idiotic -- you'd need to keep your phone down on the charging plate and not be able to use it while charging. Any phone that only supports wireless charging is crap, waterproof or not.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[OneHundredAndTen]

"Most" "All". Which is what this is all about.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[txoof]

Even among the non-Apple devices there are still issues. The USB-Micro standard is fragile, uni-directional and has skinny-ass wires that can't cary much current for fast charging. The USB-C standard is anything but standard with a mixed bag of features and compatibility from device to device.

Apple's Lightening charger is nice that it works for all of Apple's recent handhelds and is reversible, but is incompatible for all the new laptops (USB-C). The Listening cable is also only good for ~2A of current meaning that fast charging is right out. But what good is a charging cable that only works one line of devices?

USB-C *could* be great and last us for the next 10 years if only the industry could standardize the standard. It would also be great if you could count on USB-C cables actually being 100% compliant and not worry that your E-Bay special was going to toast your new phone, or burn down your house. Judging by the plethora of shitty cables out there, I would guess that the standard is simply too expensive or too difficult to comply with.

I would definitely welcome a standard that could do something about the giant box of standard, half-standard, and proprietary cables that I've accumulated. We can do it with headphones and lights and HDMI cables (sort of), why can't we do it with phone and laptop chargers?

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[omnichad]

Don't forget Lightning. Apple only adopted Thunderbolt for their laptops.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[jellomizer]

My bad I got them confused. I guess the Lightning cable came out before Thunderbolt. Because light travels faster then sound.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[jellomizer]

Being that most phones even with heavy usage can be charged over night and last a full day. The usage while wired is less of a concern then it has been. With incremental upgrade. I am sure that wireless charging will be the future. Especially if such devices can get a full 48 hour usage off of them.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[danbert8]

Pokemon Go players disagree... I need to keep my phone constantly charging if I'm playing for more than an hour or so or the battery won't last the day.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[Anonymous Coward]

Most flip phones I see today have USB-Micro for the charging port.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[omnichad]

Well if you're going to bring up the speed of light, it's important to mention that Thunderbolt was originally named Light Peak and designed to work optically. And somehow it went from that to copper and just co-opting Displayport and USB in the next few revisions.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[dgatwood]

Hearthstone, too. If I'm killing time for an afternoon, I'll play on the phone, and I keep it continuously connected to power, because as you say, the batteries are an order of magnitude too small to be practical for gaming.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[yuriklastalov]

Sorry pal, your real world usage patterns get in the way of our aesthetic principles. We're making the BRAVE and COURAGEOUS design choices necessary to realize a more perfect world. Just deal with it, bro.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[dgatwood]

USB 3 was also originally going to be optical. These mistakes have a tendency to correct themselves.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[Anubis IV]

Thunderbolt is an Intel technology (handed to them by Apple, if you believe the rumors). You can find it on a number of motherboards with recent Intel chipsets. Apple was the first PC manufacturer to adopt it, but they're by no means the only one, and with Intel dropping royalties on Thunderbolt a few months back it's expected that we'll be seeing native support for Thunderbolt on AMD boards as well in the not-too-distant future as well.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[Anonymous Coward]

Cone on, think about the introduction of USB 1.1 and USB 2.0. The first 2.5 years there were many problems (mostly drivers and OS stack for USB1.1 and unshielded cables for USB 2.0) before it just worked. The same will happen for USB-C. The manufacturers also need a learning experience.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[dgatwood]

Even among the non-Apple devices there are still issues. The USB-Micro standard is fragile, uni-directional and has skinny-ass wires that can't cary much current for fast charging. The USB-C standard is anything but standard [digitaltrends.com] with a mixed bag of features and compatibility from device to device.

IMO, those problems are mostly overblown.

Yes, there are Thunderbolt cables that look like USB but don't pass USB data, but unless you're one of those rare people who actually uses Thunderbolt, you'll never encounter one, so that's not a meaningful reason to be concerned.

And yes, it is possible for a crappy cable to reduce your charging speed by limiting the current. Buy quality cables and you won't have this problem.

But realistically, so far, the only real problems I've had were caused by plugging blindly into a USB-C connection that goes through some random conference room table at work, only to find out that it is a 15W cell phone charger that obviously won't power a laptop. This, of course, doesn't affect charging phones at all, and has nothing to do with USB-C except insofar as my laptop just happens to use the same charge connector as cell phones.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[AmiMoJo]

The issues with cheap cables could be fixed with better chargers that detect the faults. Some of the more recent power delivery ICs seem to implementing this.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a lot of problems in the past with the device not liking the lightning jack cable put in, apple or not, officially licensed or not.

Hardware handshaking, in this case fuck the consumer overism, is a bitch.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[JackieBrown]

Same, especially when running a hotspot so my kids can play too on the cheapest android device I could find them that supported pokemon go :)

I already have by external batteries charged for community day this weekend :)

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[txoof]

IMO, those problems are mostly overblown.

Yes, there are Thunderbolt cables that look like USB but don't pass USB data, but unless you're one of those rare people who actually uses Thunderbolt, you'll never encounter one, so that's not a meaningful reason to be concerned.

Thunder cables are a different story entirely and work great for devices that support it. The Lightening cables are a totally worthless unless you're in the Apple handheld ecosystem. They're also pretty awful in that they can't do more than about 12W due to the skinny wires Apple chooses to use. This means you're stuck with slow charging for no good reason other than a fat cable isn't svelte and sexy.

And yes, it is possible for a crappy cable to reduce your charging speed by limiting the current. Buy quality cables and you won't have this problem.

I'd love to, but other than shopping directly from the Benson Approved site, how can anyone know it's a quality cable that is "quality?" Most folks won't ever even know there's a difference. The huge variety in quality indicates that something in the USB-C spec is difficult to meet. Either the spec is too rigorous, too expensive, or not clear enough for the average chinesium supplier to meet.

Having a clear, open standard that everyone can meet and that is mandated to all portable devices would be a huge boon for consumers. Yes, it might limit innovation, but with some proper collaboration with industry, it could be a very good thing and replace the current mess we have today.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[Tough Love]

The USB-Micro standard is fragile, uni-directional and has skinny-ass wires that can't cary much current for fast charging. The USB-C standard is anything but standard.

USB-Micro is evil, I'm happy to see it in sunset. USB-C is sweet, good job guys.

I had to invest in a new set of cables, but the new connector is so much better, it's worth it. I have not had one bit of trouble with third party cables. I am careful to avoid the crap ones. That has always been a problem with cable suppliers, USB-C is hardly the worst. When I pick up a USB-C cable I'm looking for 3.1 gen 1 compatibility, at least. If I ever get a device that actually needs gen 2, I really don't mind if my phone and tablet cables don't run it at full speed.

So far, I only have one USB-C device so I don't have any immediate data about cross-device compatibility. With decent cables in good condition I just never have big issues with USB. Maybe my experience is partly due to Linux, because sometimes it's hard to tell whether you've got a cable issue or a software issue. With Linux, it's pretty much never the latter.

If you plug in a usb 3.1 external drive that has one of those strange-duck double-wide 3.1 connectors, but use a standard micro-B cable instead, it just works. Not as fast, but usable. Of course, with the right cable it's as fast as an internal SATA drive, and if that ever matters then I will hunt around for the right cable. Better, in future any external drive I buy will be USB-C and I will just grit my teeth about the oddball one I have now.

In short, I find the article you linked to be alarmist clickbait. In the real world, USB-C compatibility is looking good. Big shoutout to everybody involved.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[Tough Love]

the only real problems I've had were caused by plugging blindly into a USB-C connection that goes through some random conference room table at work, only to find out that it is a 15W cell phone charger that obviously won't power a laptop.

The problem is the laptop, not the charger. Wintel has just fallen pitifully behind in terms of form factor. Displays are way more efficient than they used to be, processors too unless you are paying the Intel CISC tax. Are you running Fortnite on your laptop in the conference room? No? Then it is pathetic you can't run it on 15 watts.

This is Microsoft's doing.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[dgatwood]

I'd love to, but other than shopping directly from the Benson Approved site, how can anyone know it's a quality cable that is "quality?" Most folks won't ever even know there's a difference. The huge variety in quality indicates that something in the USB-C spec is difficult to meet.

The huge variation in quality indicates that most Chinese manufacturers will build the cheapest cables that they can get away with, and if that means you're capped at two amperes instead of three, as long as 90% of users don't notice, they'll still get four out of five stars, so why bother to support fast charging for devices that prefer higher amperage, when that means using a thicker wire?

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[dgatwood]

This is Microsoft's doing.

My laptop is a 15" MacBook Pro, so no, it isn't.

The problem is the laptop, not the charger. Wintel has just fallen pitifully behind in terms of form factor. Displays are way more efficient than they used to be, processors too unless you are paying the Intel CISC tax. Are you running Fortnite on your laptop in the conference room? No? Then it is pathetic you can't run it on 15 watts.

The screen alone draws more than 15 Watts, I believe.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop being a fag.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[swillden]

The USB-C standard is anything but standard with a mixed bag of features and compatibility from device to device.

Bah.

That article talks about the ways in which USB-C is insufficiently standardized and what is says is technically correct, but irrelevant in practice for phone charging and connectivity. All of the problems are around super-high data rates and using USB-C for display. Charging works great. There were some problems early on with non-compliant cables, but those have largely been flushed out (note that both of your links about this problem are from 2015 -- there's a reason you didn't find recent ones), and these days as far as I can tell every USB-C device, cable and charger can be mixed and matched without trouble. Also, data rates aren't a problem unless you need 5 or 10 Gbps; not all devices and cables can manage those rates, but if USB2 rates are good enough, you can just not care.

For phone charging, USB-C is the solution, and it works very well. Apple and Samsung should suck it up and get on board.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[Tough Love]

This is Microsoft's doing.

My laptop is a 15" MacBook Pro, so no, it isn't.

Well it kinda is, because Apple basically went Wintel. But that is a niggle, I will grant you that Apple is also selling museum pieces for laptops.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[Z00L00K]

Add to it that wireless charging also is relatively inefficient and in the era of power saving demands where we chase after high efficiency and minimal magnetic fields it seems to be a pretty nasty idea.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[Misagon]

The USB-Micro standard is ... uni-directional ...

Oh, there are reversible Micro B connectors out there. They work with existing sockets. It was introduced in 2015 but there are multiple options now and cables are widely available.
(If that is not what you meant, there is the On-The-Go (OTG) standard, so Micro-USB could be used as a host port as well.)

Other than power delivery I find the problem with USB Micro B be that it is not compulsory for sockets to have through-hole mounts, and therefore those that don't are more fragile.
USB Type C rectified that.
On the other hand, USB C has many teeny tiny connectors inside the plug and socket, and I wonder if not those would break first and what then would happen.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[dgatwood]

It really wouldn't matter what chipset they use.

• Larger screens require more power and a beefier GPU, which also requires more power.
• You need power budget for external devices.
• You're going to do much more CPU-intensive and GPU-intensive work with a laptop than a tablet, so you need a bigger battery, which means more wattage to avoid insanely long charge times.
• You need lots of RAM for working with larger data sets (in this case, 4x the RAM of an iPad Pro), which draws a lot of power.
• You need more disk storage for storing those larger data sets, which draws more power.

Add all of these things up, and even if you switched to an ARM CPU, you wouldn't really save that much power. For maximum charging, the MBP can draw up to 87W. It can run at full speed with slower charging at 60W. It can run at slightly reduced speed (no burst mode) at 45W (CPU TDP). So half the wattage is for charging speed and that extra little bit of performance. But below 45W, you aren't going to be able to power the device.

If you moved from Intel to ARM, you would be moving from a chip that can't be throttled enough to run below about 30W to a chip that currently draws 15W and is only two-thirds as fast and has a much less capable DRAM controller and northbridge. Bring that up to equivalent capabilities, and I doubt you'll save more than five watts, at a tremendous R&D cost.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[Tough Love]

Showing up in a conference room with a firebreathing 15" display and running 3D apps means that you plan to ignore the presenter. Why stop there? Just walk in with a minitower under your arm.

Anyway, display efficiency keeps improving. OLED with 100 lumens per watt. That's a lot, ever pointed a 100 lumen flashlight in your face? The real issue is just as I said, your laptop is a dinosaur.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[dgatwood]

Showing up in a conference room with a firebreathing 15" display and running 3D apps means that you plan to ignore the presenter.

Xcode is an IDE with a compiler toolchain, not a 3D app. I show up in the conference room with that laptop because that is the laptop I use at work to get work done.

Anyway, display efficiency keeps improving. OLED with 100 lumens per watt. [cnet.com] That's a lot, ever pointed a 100 lumen flashlight in your face? The real issue is just as I said, your laptop is a dinosaur.

Wrong again. OLED is nice in theory. In practice, for laptop use, it tends to use *more* power than LED-backlit LCDs, because computer screens tend to display large amounts of white (every web page, word processing document, etc.), which means they tend towards their worst-case power utilization, rather than their best as occurs on devices that are mostly used for media consumption. Between that and yield problems (and/or artificially constrained supply), OLD panels on laptops are more trouble than they are worth. And that's not even taking into account the significantly reduced panel lifespan when used to display seas of white. Those reasons could, perhaps, explain why laptop manufacturers that switched to OLED previously are now actually switching BACK to LCD panels in their newer models.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[Tough Love]

Xcode is an IDE with a compiler toolchain, not a 3D app. I show up in the conference room with that laptop because that is the laptop I use at work to get work done.

Try suspending it out of respect for the others in the conference. Anyway, you're lugging around a museum piece, admit it. And I ssh into a real machine for heavy compiling, if that's the bottleneck. BTW, WTF is Xcode doing with your compute power? You are also hobbled by crap software, I'm starting to get it. I wonder if XCode implementation is as crap as the html your Mac posts.

Anyway, display efficiency keeps improving. OLED with 100 lumens per watt. [cnet.com] That's a lot, ever pointed a 100 lumen flashlight in your face? The real issue is just as I said, your laptop is a dinosaur.

Wrong again...

Nobody will ever convince you that your museum piece is a museum piece because you wear that big black apple on your sleeve. Remember when people used to lug those gigantic Dell machines into meetings? That's what you look like to the guy across the table.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[Anonymous Coward]

Spoken like someone who had never used one before, or had only used the cheapest models that like flat like a mat. Probably with a thick phone case that was not designed for wireless charging.

Get a decent case designed to support wireless charging, and then get a decent wireless fast charger that works like a phone stand, so the phone can be placed upright with a slight incline, either vertical or horizontal, then you can use the phone just fine while charging.

Zero wear and tear, never have to replace the charging cable again. Can put down and pick up the phone in an instant with one hand.

Now the charging port on my phone rarely get used.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[rahvin112]

USB-C had a rough start because Chinese OEM's simply stuck a USB-C connector on the same USB 2.0 wire and chip. The USB commission deliberately broke this layout because they were making a major change with power delivery in the spec and they needed cables to signal they were compatible with the new standard.

But back to the point, most of the USB-C stuff and cables is sorted out at this point, it generally takes about 10 years for a new USB standard to become common, were barely halfway on USB-C. By the time we get to 2023 we should be standardized on USB-C at which point they will probably need to add some more wires.

Re: Do they mean the cable?

[Anonymous Coward]

Takes one to blow one.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[tlhIngan]

They're also pretty awful in that they can't do more than about 12W due to the skinny wires Apple chooses to use. This means you're stuck with slow charging for no good reason other than a fat cable isn't svelte and sexy.

Uh, even most "fast" charging phones are drawing about 2A (10W), so Apple's 12W charge cables are just as fast as other phone chargers. Finding a USB port that will do more than 2.1A is rare until you switch to USB-PD. But since most phones don't u se USB-PD, and even ones that do generally only take 10-12W or so.

So Apple's 12W limit isn't "slow". It's what all the competition has caught up with. And the only reason the competition also uses 10-12W is because Apple has 10-12W chargers and thus made those "high speed" charge ports really cheap and common.

The real travesty is that there are plenty of "12W" adapters out there that only supply 500mA or 1000mA. If you didn't measure it, you'd never guess that it was the reason why the charging is slow. (And Apple does code chargers with how much current they can supply to avoid testing by drawing more method which I've seen destroy cheap chinese chargers in impressive flames).

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[Cederic]

So how does this high tech modern wireless charger top up my phone's battery when I'm leaning back comfortably in my seat, my phone in my hand?

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[thegarbz]

Being that most phones even with heavy usage can be charged over night and last a full day.

You sound like someone who uses a phone. Many of us use a computer. 3 hours in the car? Battery dead. Trip out to play Pokemon Go? Battery dead. Using GearVR headset? Battery dead. Playing a game? Battery dead. Incompatible wireless charger where you are currently? Battery dead. Bump your phone at night and misalign it from the charger? Battery dead.

The "future" is wireless charging, but as a complement, not as a replacement.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[thegarbz]

The USB-Micro standard is fragile, uni-directional and has skinny-ass wires that can't cary much current for fast charging.

And yet fast charging works just fine.

The USB-C standard is anything but standard [digitaltrends.com] with a mixed bag of features and compatibility from device to device.

The USB-C standard is perfectly fine from a charging perspective and implimented 100% consistently on every mobile out there. It gets greyer on Laptops, but this isn't in scope.

Judging by the plethora of shitty cables out there, I would guess that the standard is simply too expensive or too difficult to comply with.

Wrong conclusion. Regardless of how simple and cheap you make something, someone will bring to market something non-compliant and shite. The standard has nothing to do with it.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Macbookpro is a fucking 15" netbook. That must be why they were invented, to sort of take less room on the meeting table and sort of look pretty while having a screen big enough to see what you're fucking doing.
How's your butt plug? What, you don't wear a butt plug? You're a fucking dinosaur man. I bet you still believe the USSR is around.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[Anonymous Coward]

Try running an ARM at 2.8GHz or 3GHz on four cores, not throttling down, and for a whole hour loaded with SIMD or non SIMD computation. It shouln't be hard but it will draw power and produce heat. Now use 30 watts of GPU with that.

Nothing to do with tired old RISC vs CISC shit that stopped being relevant once processors passed the 5 or 10 million transistor mark.
Heck, want to know where's the old RISC shit, desktop MIPS, PA-RISC, Alpha? They all got their ass kicked when the Pentium III came out then were forgotten.
PowerPC went on longer, the only time it was better was when it was a better idea to build a laptop around a PowerPC G4 rather than a Pentium IV. But that was the last laptop CPU IBM made. I'm pretty sure Pentium M kicked its ass.
Sparc is only dying now, because it was in the niche of highest end multi-socket database server. For the last decade it was funded by vampires bleeding their customers dry. Larry Ellison became a vampire in the late 16th century, was vanquished by Simon Belmont but he was reborn from his ashes 100 years later and emigrated to Americas.

Re:Do they mean the cable?

[Agripa]

The USB-C standard is perfectly fine from a charging perspective and implimented 100% consistently on every mobile out there. It gets greyer on Laptops, but this isn't in scope.

Unfortunately it also includes provisions for charger authentication so devices can be tied to specific chargers.

oh thank god

[Anonymous Coward]

There are too many standards, so we should make a new one

Re:oh thank god

[Luthair]

I'm not sure one can call proprietary tech like Qualcomm's QuickCharge a standard.

Re:oh thank god

[amicusNYCL]

How do those work? My phone has something similar, called Dash Charge, which uses USB-C and works as long as the charger supports it. What's the difference, if rapid charging like that is possible then why isn't it the norm?

Re:oh thank god

[tbuddy]

QC is independent of what the plug type is. I have USB-C and Micro-B USB phones that use QC3.

Re:oh thank god

[dgatwood]

So is USB PD. You just have to have a PD-aware micro-USB cable (and, obviously, a PD-capable micro-USB device). That said, why would anyone want to continue using micro-B on new devices now that USB-C exists?

Everything should go wireless

[olsmeister]

No chargers, no wear and tear on the charging port, convenience. Just do it already.

Re:Everything should go wireless

[Anonymous Coward]

But then you can't easily use your phone and charge at the same time.

Re:Everything should go wireless

[tepples]

You already can't, as headphones for recent iPhone models plug into the charging port. Apple copied Nintendo in this respect, as the Game Boy Advance SP had the same problem.

Re:Everything should go wireless

[AuMatar]

Waste of electricity broadcasting power, short enough range to be nearly unusable, cannot use the phone while charging, cannot easily charge from a laptop while on the road, another piece of equipment that can get broken or lost and not easily replaced. Wireless is a shitty idea that's less convenient and costs more. No thanks.

Re:Everything should go wireless

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats bad, but this is worse, with wireless charging I can't do ANYTHING unless I am hunched over the charging pad.

Re:Everything should go wireless

[Anonymous Coward]

So someone will sell a charging pad that clips to the back of your phone and plugs into USB. Problem solved.

Re:Everything should go wireless

[volodymyrbiryuk]

Your charger can get broken or lost easily so what's your point? Replacing a wireless charge would be the same procedure as replacing a wired charger. Go to the store buy one, or order online. Can charge on the road, just connect the wireless charger to laptop... you know with a cable like you would do it now. But I still get your point as usb-c is a good enough standard to be used everywhere.

Re:Everything should go wireless

[DirkDaring]

Cannot use the phone while charging? I use mine while charging on my Galaxy Note 5. I charge it on the road with a wireless charger I installed on my cars dash and a wireless pad just as easy to toss in my travel bag as a cord is. I rarely use a cord anymore.

Re:Everything should go wireless

[jellomizer]

The biggest problem I had with phones over the past 20+ years. Is the connector on the phone wearing out or getting corroded over time, this seem to force me to upgrade about 1/3 of all my phones. The other 1/3 was from physical/water damage the last third was just from them being to outdated for how I use the device.

So with wireless charging+waterproofing phones can save me more then 1/2 of my needs to get a new device and expand my usage for the phone for years.

I use wireless charging and I prefer them. Sometimes I may need to charge while I want to use the phone. I just hold the charger with the phone. Only slightly more annoying then trying to use your phone while it is charging with a wire sticking out of it.

However the phones of the old days use to have charging cradles so you had the same problem The wired charger we see today isn't because of a superior design, but because it was cheaper.

Re: Everything should go wireless

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, massive radio frequency interference from those chargers. Can't see how that is FCC part 15 legal.

Re:Everything should go wireless

[AmiMoJo]

Wireless charging is great in some scenarios.

In car charger, put your phone down and drive. Use an app to automatically turn on Bluetooth or at an auto call reject up too.

In public areas where USB ports would get heavy use, and where you don't want to risk a data connection.

Re:Everything should go wireless

[JackieBrown]

The biggest problem I had with phones over the past 20+ years. Is the connector on the phone wearing out or getting corroded over time, this seem to force me to upgrade about 1/3 of all my phones.

That use to be my biggest reason too. It usually happened on phones that I could swap out the battery so it wasn't a show stopper but it did force stop me from updating any firmware that required odin to flash.

Re:Everything should go wireless

[Anonymous Coward]

Not a probably for people who don't use icrap.

Re:Everything should go wireless

[Tough Love]

Not worried about long term effects of bathing yourself in RF? I am, you can suit yourself. Wireless video for example is a pretty hefty flux density.

Re:Everything should go wireless

[Tough Love]

You already can't, as headphones for recent iPhone models plug into the charging port.

Correction: you already can't, not me. I'm fine because I avoid Apple.

Re:Everything should go wireless

[Tough Love]

Add: more expensive, not only because it's nonstandard.

Re:Everything should go wireless

[Tough Love]

Your charger can get broken or lost easily so what's your point?

Duh. If I lose a USB charger I pretty much always have several at hand that can do the same job. Or I can beg some power from my neighbour. Leave your wireless charger in the hotel room and you are screwed unless you also have USB charging.

Re:Everything should go wireless

[Tough Love]

You will eventually leave that pad in a hotel room.

Re: Everything should go wireless

[Anonymous Coward]

In Appleâ(TM)s case - you can totally do so - use Bluetooth headphones and leave the phone on the charger.

That does not cover all use-cases where you might want to charge , but itâ(TM)s not a black and white - âoeyou canâ(TM)tâ . There are even cases that charge the phone via Qi, and not the Lightning port.

It is true to say - canâ(TM)t in the context of how you used to do it, but not a global canâ(TM)t

Re:Everything should go wireless

[volodymyrbiryuk]

What if they have micro-usb and you have usb-c? You're screwed anyway. But if everyone uses wireless chargers it won't be an issue. Thats the point of pushing wireless technology.

Needed?

[djbckr]

I'm not sure where I heard this (and perhaps I'm wrong) but I thought Apple was all-in on USB-C and their next phones would have that connector instead of whatever flavor they have now. If this is true, then almost all new phones will be using USB-C.

Could Harm Future Innovation

[Anonymous Coward]

Following standards usually stifles innovation. There are trade offs to both standardization and innovation. Just know that if everyone has to follow a certain convention it will be hard to make any improvements from that point forward. Apples macbook magnetic charger comes to mind. Some people love it some hate it but in the end of the day it provides choice to the consumer.

Wireless

[Major Blud]

I'm not sure how necessary this is going to be with more vendors jumping on board with wireless charging (Qi being a big winner).

Of course that doesn't tackle the situation where the Qi chargers themselves may need different cables (but I have yet to see one that isn't micro-USB).

Forget Cords, short distance wireless charging...

[Anonymous Coward]

What they need to do is push for low distance proximity wireless chargers, put the phone in the holder, and it charges without contact.

too late

[SirAstral]

with the exception of crApple phones have pretty much used the USB standards for a while now. Not only that, the only difference is the charging speed depending on the amp the charging device is able to supply through the wire connected to the phone.

To little too late and most likely will only create more problems than it will solve by now.

Re: too late

[Zorpheus]

The micro USB connector on most phones already the result of this EU initiative. I am not sure where they see need for more success of their initiative, maybe for laptops or they really mean iPhones.

Re:too late

[Anonymous Coward]

with the exception of crApple phones have pretty much used the USB standards for a while now. Not only that, the only difference is the charging speed depending on the amp the charging device is able to supply through the wire connected to the phone.

To little too late and most likely will only create more problems than it will solve by now.

This. Just let Apple sort this out for iPhones (if they even care that much) or force their hand to do it - no need for new standards.

As a long time Lenovo (laptop) and Samsung/Android user, I consider this a solved issue, as I'm able to use the laptop USB-c charger cable (or the connector for the docking station) to charge my phone.

Re: too late

[Anonymous Coward]

The micro USB connector on most phones already the result of this EU initiative. I am not sure where they see need for more success of their initiative, maybe for laptops or they really mean iPhones.

It's pretty difficult to blame Apple for changing away from standards and going with what works at this point. People have been blaming Apple for the worlds woes for years when they followed the standards to the letter.

If you're going to get blamed for something you don't do while still living with the downsides of doing the right thing, might as well say fuck it and do something else that solves the downsides.
They would be blamed for not following standards no matter if they did or not.

USB is only a standard in the market at all due to Apple pushing it so hard.
The USB charging standards were for the longest time followed by Apple alone, and for a decade you didn't have to look any farther than slashdot to see everyone saying them following that part of the USB spec was "apple proprietary"

It's pretty ironic too as the spec pretty much addresses most of the problems being called out.
USB provides 500 ma by default and any more amperage must be requested.
If the device speaks over USB data, there was a simple command to do this.
If the device didn't, the standard says you can specify the desired amperage by putting two resistors on the data lines, either as pull-up or pull-down and at specific resistance values. The original tables even allocated up to 5 amps (full amps, not milliamps) in there even though the micro port some other devices use can't handle it, although the full sized A/B ports can.

This method was designed by the USB consortium. Yet when apple used it everyone bitched, and the EU sued them for not following the standards only to finally have the lawyers smacked down and shown that was the standard.

Lightning is certainly not an industry standard, although I'm sure apple would prefer it so as they charge money to license it out. But it solved many connector issues before USB-C came about.

There's no real point for them to go with any other existing standard now, as doing so would just result in more EU lawsuits for not following the standards and slashdotters bitching about it.

Re: too late

[Anonymous Coward]

If they already won the lawsuit, why switch afterwards?

Re: too late

[Tough Love]

It's pretty difficult to blame Apple for changing away from standards...

For you? Not for me, but hey, Apple customers enjoy pain, there is no other explanation.

Re:too late

[Tough Love]

Just let Apple sort this out for iPhones (if they even care that much) or force their hand to do it

Third alternative: just let Apple continue to suck, fine them from time to time, and let the marketplace punish them.

Re: too late

[cyber-vandal]

I'm sure Slashdotter bitching is a major factor in Apple's design decisions

Re:too late

[Actually, I do RTFA]

Last time I checked out dumb phones, they all had proprietary plugs and obscure charging volts.

Yes, about power connectors

[tepples]

Correct. This EU study relates to the different connectors used by different makes and models of mobile device. Smartphones use three (USB micro-B, USB C, and Lightning), dumbphones and laptops generally use different sizes and voltages of barrel connector, and handheld video game consoles have their own proprietary power connectors (GBA SP/Nintendo DS, Nintendo DS Lite, Nintendo DSi/3DS).

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[ShanghaiBill]

Smartphones use three (USB micro-B, USB C, and Lightning)

Lightning is being phased out. USB micro-B is most common. USB C is the future. The market is already converging. Regulation may have made sense a decade ago to nudge the manufacturers along, but is mostly pointless today.

The source of much waste is the excess numbers of cables and chargers, not the type. I already have dozens of USB dongles and cables. I don't need yet another included with every gadget I buy. They should be sold separately, so only those who need them can to buy them.

Also, 51,000 tonnes per decade is negligible. We throw out many times that mass in disposable diapers EVERY DAY. Maybe the regulators should focus on something that actually matters.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[93 Escort Wagon]

Of course, it seems like they are assuming that all this electronic garbage is being generated due to the non-standard phone charger, which is silly. In my experience, cables fail routinely - what connector is at the end of the thing is irrelevant.

It would be a better argument if they were including devices like the Nintendo portables you mention, since the transformer is permanently connected to the charging cable itself. But they’re only looking at phones, and I can’t remember the last time I saw a phone charging cable which wasn’t just a USB conversion cable.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[tepples]

Lightning is being phased out.

Source: "Report: Apple actively seeking to phase out Lightning connector on future iPhones" by Jesse Hollington

USB micro-B is most common. USB C is the future.

But how long until those converge?

The source of much waste is the excess numbers of cables and chargers, not the type.

The last time standardization on micro-B was studied a few years ago, the intent was that reducing the types would end up reducing the number. If a manufacturer can assume that the user is far more likely than not to already have an appropriate cable, the manufacturer can leave the cable out of the bundle. Otherwise, manufacturers still conclude "We need to include a micro-B cable in case the user only has C" or "We need to include a C cable in case the user only has micro-B".

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[jellomizer]

If you have a High End Gaming Laptop you are going to need different power requirements then say an ultra book with an Atom Processor.
The issue seems to be the power connectors is less of an environmental concern then the batteries. or the devices themselves. For the most part Power Converters have the most recyclable parts in them. A lot of copper and metal.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[AmiMoJo]

The market looked like it was converging a decade ago and didn't. Manufacturers were told to sort it out, and didn't.

51k tonnes/year of electronic waste is significant. No need to excuse it with what-about-ism.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Wycliffe]

Of course, it seems like they are assuming that all this electronic garbage is being generated due to the non-standard phone charger, which is silly. In my experience, cables fail routinely - what connector is at the end of the thing is irrelevant.

My experience is the opposite but ends up with the same result. Every device comes with a free charger and free cable. After a few years, I have dozens of usb chargers and microusb cables. I have an entire box of microusb cables and I occasionally cull and throw out perfectly good chargers because I have more than I need. For phones, it's basically a non-issue. There are basically 2 cables, lightning and microusb, and then different chargers rated at different amps. I've noticed that some of my older chargers don't have enough amps to charge some of the newer devices. Either way, things are mostly compatible. As long as chargers are cheap enough to be given away free with a new device, they will continue to be landfilled regardless of whether or not they are compatible with the new device.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[AmiMoJo]

USB-C should be able to charge most stuff. With up to 100W of power delivery there are few devices that need more power or higher voltages.

Make everything USB-C. One day you won't even need to take your chargers with you, everywhere that has mains power will have USB-C 100W outlets too.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Hognoxious]

Piss and shit are organic and go away pretty quickly on their own. Heavy metals & plastic, not so much.

Spin the wheel ... your logical fallacy is: fake equivalence.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Tough Love]

The source of much waste is the excess numbers of cables and chargers, not the type. I already have dozens of USB dongles and cables. I don't need yet another included with every gadget I buy. They should be sold separately, so only those who need them can to buy them.

Not going to happen. The retail package needs to include everything you need to actually turn on and use the phone, so the power supply has to ship with it. As far as the cable goes, it's sweet that it's just a normal USB cable now, usually a good quality one. Never seem to have enough of those, they do die you know.

These days, you can't even count on people having a PC with usb ports to power your phone. PCs are getting rarer and usually can't deliver enough current for high speed charging.

Maybe some discounters will eventually offer phones shipped in plastic bags with no accessories at all for a few dollars off. Some market sliver might be receptive to that. Otherwise get used to it, you might accumulate some chargers yourself, the rest of us need them. Try offering your spare ones around, I'm sure you will find takers. I like to have a few sitting around in various locations: study, bedroom, kitchen maybe. If you travel you're eventually going to lose a couple. And I always keep a USB charger in my carry on. Forgetting your charger is easy and can be highly inconvenient.

Also, there is steady progress in power supply technology. I appreciate getting a beefier, sleeker, more power efficient one with each new phone. Now you can realistically operate a tablet with your phone charger too, that's really sweet. It was not too long ago I would typically travel with four or five different power supplies. The weight really adds up and the cables like to weave themselves into a knot. Now, two biscuit-sized usb chargers is enough, assuming I leave the laptop at home. BTW, that is why tablet-as-laptop-replacement is such a big deal for me.

I disagree that there are already too many USB chargers in the world.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Hognoxious]

If you have a High End Gaming Laptop you are going to need different power requirements then say an ultra book with an Atom Processor.

While that's true, high end gaming laptops[1] are somewhat out of the scope of this discussion.

I know people don't RTFA, but you could at least RTFT(ETBTS"MP").

[1] Note the lack of capitalization. Are you a fucking German or something?

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Hognoxious]

The retail package needs to include everything you need to actually turn on and use the phone, so the power supply has to ship with it.

Is this a marketing axiom, a religious tenet, a legal requirement (where - believe it or not, laws vary from place to place) or did you just pull that out of your fat arse?

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[JackieBrown]

So do we force the entire industry to switch to usb-c or micro-b? And does that mean we cannot come out with new tech until all mobile operators agree and are ready to switch over?

I cannot recall the last phone I had that used a non-standard charger. I have some wireless keyboards that use a different usb connector and that's annoying but I even see that less now.

I agree with ShanghaiBill. The reason there is so many cords disposed of is due to them being included with every device you buy. I have a whole drawer (probably 2) filled with them. And that's a testament to the interoperability. There is almost never a need to even take the new cords out of wrapping.

I feel like if manufacturers quit including them, we would have a different outcry here about being nickled and dimed to death and receiving products without the ability to even charge them.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Hognoxious]

In my experience, cables fail routinely

You must be a right clumsy bastard. I've had two fail, ever.

Now sometimes you get a particular USB cable which doesn't work with a particular device. Get a grown-up (a mohel if you can find one already) to trim a couple of mm off the insulation.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Anonymous Coward]

And had they forced the standardization a few years ago, we'd all be stuck with the very crappy micro USB. Manufacturers would not have been able to introduce and move to USB C. There'd also be issues with the ability to change voltages, etc. That's what government grandstanding does. It stifles innovation.

This is a non-issue being created by the regulation crazy EU that desires to control everything. Their pursuit of doing so is completely blind to how it impacts future innovation.

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[c6gunner]

Gaming laptops can use well over 100W. The power supply for mine provides 190. I'm sure it doesn't utilise every last watt but under heavy load I expect it's probably drawing 160+.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Hognoxious]

There is almost never a need to even take the new cords out of wrapping.

In a way you're right. I too have loads of the bastards.

I try to have at least one of each type in the lounge, one of each type in my work bag and the rest live in my office/lair/lab, where I can never find the one I need even though I have at least nineteen of them because the place is a fucking tip.

But yet, you see them in stores. So presumably somebody is buying them, which implies somebody doesn't have one already.

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[cyber-vandal]

Had they not threatened it then we'd have the same situation as laptops where you can't even get a standard power supply for different laptops from the same manufacturer.

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[cyber-vandal]

Do you remember a time when there were different connectors for phones, even ones from the same manufacturer. I do. It was less than 10 years ago and consumers were being ripped off. Micro B isn't perfect but far better than the mess we had before. How would the magical market fairy dust have solved the issue?

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[AmiMoJo]

That's why I said "most".

Things like monitors and small TVs, Bluetooth speakers, LED lamps, some games consoles, TV sound bars, external hard drives, low power computers, small kitchen appliances, wireless gamepads, battery chargers, stick battery cleaners... There are so many DC powered devices that could be USB-C.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[tsa]

Or somebody has a rabbit in the house.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[harrkev]

I, for one, appreciate having an included cable. The cables have a finite life, so getting a spare cable is never a bad thing.

The wall adapter, on the other hand, I have way too many of.

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[Miamicanes]

100 watts is NOTHING if you have a gaming laptop or mobile workstation w/desktop CPU. The GPU *alone* can suck down more than 100 watts, and even when sipping power, you'd be forced to choose between "running" ("limping?") and "charging".

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Tough Love]

Marketing axiom.

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[Z00L00K]

And when you look at HP and Dell the connector is identical but the laptops won't charge if you use the wrong brand. However you can power up a HP laptop on a Dell adapter. At least some models.

Then we also have the issue of the higher current that is pushed all the time due to higher capacity batteries. Maybe the 5V on the USB isn't enough soon and we'll see higher voltages. 12V next?

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[AmiMoJo]

Another? Has the meaning of "most" changed while I wasn't paying attention?

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[Z00L00K]

2x Intel Xeon Platinum 8173M with a TDP of 165W on a Tyan Tempest HX S7105 and 6x PNY Quadro GV100 32GB using 250W each would probably require you to use a 3-phase 400V feed to get reliability.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[93 Escort Wagon]

It might be me; but I usually blame my wife. There have been numerous times when I've seen her using her iPad while it's charging and the cable is bent just about 90 degrees, right where the cable meets the connector, because she's got it stretched out to the absolute maximum distance she can get it.

Yeah, that it. It's her fault.

Don't tell her I said that.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Hognoxious]

I'm planning to tidy up next week. I wouldn't be surprised if I find at least one Japanese soldier who doesn't believe the wars over.

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[serviscope_minor]

small kitchen appliances,

Proably the smallest kitchen appliance I have in terms of wattage is maybe my fridge, maybe my slow cooker at 300W. The physically smallest is a stick blender but it's 700W. Everything smaller runs of button or coin cells.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[CWCheese]

Manufacturers were told to sort it out, and didn't.

Swap the word Apple for Manufacturers and the picture becomes much clearer. Apple has resisted and rejected common connectors for all its history, and even as the world seemingly is converging on USB-C they drag their feet. More important to feed the trillion$ beast with sales of $50 adapters for everything.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Anonymous Coward]

selection D

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[lgw]

Why use a horrible, fiddly, USB-C connector when you could use a barrel connector? USB-C connectors are the worst little flimsy things, and you have to plug them in a certain way. Barrel connectors are easy to get right in the dark, and about as robust as a connector can be made.

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[Anonymous Coward]

No, this really is all about diapers. We should have more shit and piss in and around our homes and public spaces.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Anonymous Coward]

The market converged nearly a decade ago by everyone but apple. When microusb came out it was nearly universally adopted by handset makers by everyone EXCEPT APPLE, when USB C came out, once again we are now seeing everyone adopt this EXCEPT APPLE. The EU needs to stop f*cking around and just slap apple silly with a fine, make them change to a standard connector and solve the problem once and for all since they are by far the largest violator of it.

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[quenda]

Maybe the 5V on the USB isn't enough soon and we'll see higher voltages. 12V next?

We've had that for years on popular mid to high end phones with Qualcomm quick charge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
And now there is an official standard USB Power Delivery.
http://www.usb.org/developers/...

A move to wireless charging would be a big backward step in the drive to improved efficiency.

I do miss the days of external contact pads, so I could just drop my phone in a cradle to charge. The Nexus-7 tablet was the last place I saw those, but I don't think it was used much.

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[rahvin112]

It was EU action that forced the industry to standardize on Micro-USB before USB-C came out.Phones converged because of the EU but then splintered again when USB-C showed up and Apple brought lightening to the table. Hopefully it will reconverge around USB-C but if not the EU will hopefully force that.

The EU also needs to act on combining phone/laptop chargers around USB-C for smaller laptops and a standard connector for larger power needs. We've still got hundreds of different connectors on laptops for no bloody good reason, it's frankly criminal.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[sjames]

Clearly you have forgotten the state of affairs before the EU pressured manufacturers the last time, back when even different models from the same manufacturer had their own special snowflake chargers. Without that, they wouldn't be USB at all.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[sjames]

Think about it, what pisses you off more, an extra cable or one cable too few?

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Hognoxious]

I feel physical pain when I see a cable like that.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Anonymous Coward]

Great, compare something designed to be disposed of versus something that should be completely reusable. Idiot. The market converges up until the point at which someone moves to the next big paradigm and off we all go on our separate paths again. Regulate it already.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[ShanghaiBill]

Marketing axiom.

Yet many gadget boxes say "batteries not included".

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[93 Escort Wagon]

Note that I didn’t actually argue the “clumsy bastard” label, because anyone who knows me would call me on it. :-D

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Anonymous Coward]

I still have an older Samsung tablet that has its own proprietary port/connector that AFAIK is no longer being manufactured. Eventually the cable will croak, and when it does, I guess I'll just have to toss the tablet. This in spite of the fact that it still works just fine—only because I'll no longer have a way to charge it.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[darth.hunterix]

But most single-use diapers I've seen were coated with some water-proof polymers, I assume they don't go away as quickly. But I digress. I only came to say HEAVY METAL WILL LAST FOREVER! \m/ \m/

Hold your head up high
Raise your fist up in the air
Play metal louder than hell
Louder than hell

They can't stop us
Let 'em try
For heavy metal
We would die!

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Zontar The Mindless]

You can fix that problem by painting the cables with Tabasco. It doesn't even need to be full-strength—a 10-15% solution should do the trick nicely, IIRC.

(That was about 25 years ago. A few years later, I moved across country and couldn't take them along. Still miss the little buggers sometime—I hope the kids I gave them to took good care of them and had as much fun with them as I did.)

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Anonymous Coward]

And what about HP that since years no longer includes a USB cable with their printers?
Their stated reason is people already have such a cable and it would be a waste to supply another one to dump in a drawer.

But it's not just about the cable, like my One+ phones use a particular type of quick charging which is not possible with every charger and cable combination.
--
Teun

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[rastos1]

Instead of modding you down, I decided to correct you: Diapers are not made of piss and shit.

5 seconds in google brings this:

Not all diapers are biodegradable or eco-friendly. In fact, most diapers in use today are not. A typical disposable diaper takes hundreds of years to fully decompose - though nobody REALLY knows, since no disposables have been in the landfill that long! According to the EPA, potentially toxic waste is left to sit inside landfills in plastic diapers for centuries. The average baby (and there are LOTS of babies out there!) goes through nearly 7,000 diapers before potty training, making disposable diapers the 3rd-largest source of household waste in the U.S.

source

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Tough Love]

Batteries are nearly always included these days, you supported my point.

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[AmiMoJo]

You don't have things like can openers, milk frothers, lighters, coffee grinders, juicers, knife sharpeners etc?

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[dwillden]

They wear out or get lost or forgotten somewhere. I've bought a few store ones when desperate for a cable. But mostly if a factory cable wears out I buy an Anker Cable, they are much sturdier construction and I've yet to have one wear out.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Hognoxious]

You can fix that problem by painting the cables with Tabasco.

The one day you finish running the backup at 2 a.m., unplug the thing and rub your eyes.

I hope the kids I gave them to took good care of them and had as much fun with them as I did

Or at least seasoned them properly.

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple came up with the Lightning connector before USB-C. Given that Apple had established an infrastructure around their new connector, and USB-C didn't support audio until very recently, I understand why Apple stuck with their connector. I doubt we will see Apple converge around USB-C.

Apple is working on ThunderBolt 4 now, and USB-C is already maxxed out with ThunderBolt 3 speeds and power. My guess is that Apple will converge on whatever connector ThunderBolt 4 uses. Maybe Apple will "borrow" an existing connector and extend it for ThunderBolt, like it had for versions 1 and 2 (Mini-DP) and version 3 (USB-C).

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[serviscope_minor]

No electric can opener, no milk frother.

My brand new (and old) cooker have lighters built in powered from the mains. I've got a lighter too, from when the old one broke, but it's a thing that sparks when you pull the trigger. I think it's piezo powered and has no batteries.

No coffee grinder.

I've got a blender, but it's 700W, way above what USB can do.

My knife sharpener is a steel for day to day, an oilstone and strop for when it's time to get it razor sharp (literally) and some diamond files for when it's really knackered and needs the primary bevel reground. OK I admit that's a little excessive, but the only electric sharpener I've used worth a damn is a tormek.

Anyway I wasn't really terribly aware of those lower power gadgets, but don't they mostly run straight off AC with a small universal or shaded pole motor?

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[thegarbz]

An entire internet of information and you pick the most obviously biased reference you can find? I'm not disagreeing with the conclusion but you just made an absolutely horrible arguement.

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[AmiMoJo]

Maybe more common with Japanese stuff, a lot of it is battery powered. They often use inductive charging as well. I guess it's easier to make waterproof, washable items that way, like an electric toothbrush.

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[Anne Thwacks]

The reason for all the waste is that a lot of the chargers, and almost all the micro-usb cables seem to last about a week in the hands of non-technical users. Last week I saw

Someone pulling the plug board across the floor by the USB cable in the charger
Someone pushing a USB3 plug into a USB A socket and complaining it did not connect

There is no law against stupidity, and you can be quite sure no politician would ever enact one, on the grounds that they would incriminate themselves.

Engineers need to address the stupidity problem with as much ADHD zeal as they can muster, or possibly more.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[tsa]

That's a tip. Furniture wax also seems to help but, as another poster already said, if you need to so something with the cable later you have to deal with the stuff you put on it. So I rather hide them or protect them.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Anonymous Coward]

Who exactly is going to pay for this?

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Actually, I do RTFA]

Or, alternatively, most Apple people have a lot of money in lightening devices and don't want to buy new USB3 devices.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Zontar The Mindless]

I never tried to nibble on the cables myself, so it always WFM.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Hognoxious]

How long does mercury take to break down? How about cadmium?

Do diapers cause birth defects in the period before they break down?

If you're going to correct people you might try actually being correct.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Hognoxious]

LOL. I'd buy you a virtual beer but you'd probably spill it.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[houghi]

I used to do that as well. Now I just have a magnetic cable and have the connector on the device, be it a phone, a camera, a speaker, a tablet, Raspberry, headset, ... Some random sample It would be great if THAT became the standard. Cabnle at my desk at home, one at work, one at my bedside, one in my travelbag, one in my car.
And that cable can be used for both USB and lightening port.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[bluegutang]

51k tonnes/year is 100 grams per person per year. Not that much

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[Anonymous Coward]

I like the "crappy" micro USB.
I do not look forward having to replace all my stuff, at higher cost to get 1 meter long cables.

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[Anonymous Coward]

I figured Thunderbolt 4 would still use USB-C. It's just the same with PCIe 4.0 instead of 3.0. If this requires changing connector again, wow.. I bet you'll be able to claim Apple invented Thunderbolt, because it's going to fail on the market and will become a legacy port like Firewire and Express Card.

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[Anonymous Coward]

That's weird shit you have. I knew of the battery operated salt grinder/dispenser (hence you can have the same for pepper, but there's more point to have the salt thing on dining table).
I had to look how what's a milk frother. Wow lol. Sorry this looks ridiculous! Although the resulting "frothing at the cup" might be worth it.

I can't help but think all this stuff exists for the sake of itself. It's East-Asian men furthering their career by creating a "feature". Thousands of them in their "salary man" dress commuting on public transport (or whatever they do in Korea too)
But I was already told that if everyone was like me the economy would crash.
At least they do singing toilets and milk frothers.. while the West makes new web frameworks every week, month or day!

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[Anonymous Coward]

240V (or so) would be enough.

In my country, regulars plugs are on a 230V 16A circuit. (there's a 20A circuit for the electric stove. I had an individual 10A per electric heater)
So that's up to 3680W. Of course, what if the voltage is 5% lower today, or 10% lower. Let's have it at 3.5 kilowatts, and a bit over 2.8 kilowatts for a country that'd give you less amps per circuit (like 13 amps in UK?)

It seems to about work on your rig. The US has 240V/15A? Should do.
There are actual such power supplies on ebay for mining! but buying a 3.x KW power supply with no brand (or only Chinese characters) would be a dumb thing to do surely.

Re:Yes, about power connectors

[rastos1]

The elements do not break down. (Except radioactive ones.) Look: someone pointed out that diapers are a problem, someone else said "no, they degrade quickly". I knew that is not correct. So I spent 5 seconds to backup my claim with a link. I did not oppose reducing e-waste. I did not say that diapers cause birth defects. And I did not say that we can either spent resources on e-waste or divert them to diapers. I just said that disposable diapers do not degrade quickly. Did I express myself better now?

Re: Yes, about power connectors

[Agripa]

Then we also have the issue of the higher current that is pushed all the time due to higher capacity batteries. Maybe the 5V on the USB isn't enough soon and we'll see higher voltages. 12V next?

That is already part of the USB-C standard. That is how it supports up to about 100 watts.

Apple announces plugless phone

[Anonymous Coward]

For completely unrelated reasons.

While I understand the clear benefit of a standard

[JudgeFurious]

I don't understand why this benefit is so compelling that it would require a need for action (legislation). Why should there be a law of any kind mandating that different manufacturers all use the same charger? Of course it would be best. Not getting an argument out of me on that one but why should they be compelled to do that? It just seems like the EU regulators don't have enough real problems on their plate and now they're just down to the real minutia. What's next? Finding the optimal size of crepes and mandating that all businesses that serve them comply with the standard or face an escalating series of fines?

Qi

[Anonymous Coward]

If the manufacturers move over to inductive charging, or include an inductive case with the sale, wouldn't that make this essentially moot?

Not that inductive charging is great in every situation - it'd be nice if it magnetized onto the phone so that you can charge while holding it, or charge on the go.

Movement

[Anonymous Coward]

This is already happening. Rumors are that Apple is going to go completely wireless (no port of any kind) within a couple of years. The Qi charging system is, pretty much, the de facto standard. Charging cables might be a thing for the next few years, but are probably going away, anyways.

too little too late...

[Anonymous Coward]

most phones (including iphones) already support the same qi-wireless-charging standard. and even old devices can use the same charger, only the usb-to device-cable differ. imho the eu should rather seek to standardize all other chargers for electronic devices than solve a problem that‘s already solved.

Qi charger with clamp for home use?

[tepples]

Which Qi charger clamps to the phone so that you can use the phone while charging it? Google Search qi charger with clamp found a few car mounts like this, but nothing for home use.

Re:Qi charger with clamp for home use?

[Major Blud]

That's a good point, but if I leave my phone on the charger overnight I usually don't need to recharge for at least another 24 hours. Maybe I'm the exception.

Re:Qi charger with clamp for home use?

[EETech1]

Will this result in a headache?

Re:Qi charger with clamp for home use?

[Major Blud]

Will this result in a headache?

Nah, my wife got those long before she put her wireless charger on the night stand.

Re:Qi charger with clamp for home use?

[Tough Love]

You're the one who never runs youtube on their phone.

E-waste

[tepples]

Why should there be a law of any kind mandating that different manufacturers all use the same charger?

Because it's a consequence of the long-standing law against polluting the land and water with your e-waste. Or would you prefer to abolish that as well?

Re:E-waste

[JudgeFurious]

You're talking about what people do with chargers they no longer need or want. This is a question of asking people to properly dispose of things they discard. If you recycle your broken or no longer needed waste then outstanding. That's what you should do and it's what I do. Yes making them all use the same cable will give people an incentive to keep their old cable to use with their new phone and that's fine but each phone will continue to come with a cable and people will continue to discard their old cables improperly. Having people all throw away matching cables isn't much of an improvement.

Re:E-waste

[tepples]

each phone will continue to come with a cable

The point of regulation like that described in the featured article is to make this no longer the case.

Re:E-waste

[Wycliffe]

The point of regulation like that described in the featured article is to make this no longer the case.

As long as chargers and cables are relatively cheap compared to the cost of the phone, manufacturers will continue to include them. Customers expect it, it costs very little, they don't have to worry as much about a cheap charger charging their nice new phone either too fast or too slow or a bunch of other things. It just makes for a better customer experience and costs very little. Same reason that many phones come with headphones.

Re: E-waste

[sound vision]

Disposing of them properly is great, when they are no longer usable. The entire issue here, which seems to have completely wooshed you, is that the parts are being made incompatible deliberately to create an artifically high demand for new chargers.
The solution to our ecological problems is encompassed by "reduce, reuse, recycle". Out of those 3, recycling might be the least important. Conveniently, it's also the only one that doesn't cut into Apple's bottom line.

Apple

[Artem S. Tashkinov]

Let's be honest: there's just one company which shows "a lack of progress towards this goal" and that's Apple. All others have already transitioned or are transitioning from MicroUSB to USB-C.

Even certain modern "dumb" phones already come with a USB-C connector.

Re:Apple

[omnichad]

That's just the form factor. It's a start. But if you want more than 500mA, there are multiple competing proprietary options for how to deliver higher current. USB Power Delivery is the favored choice, but there is Qualcomm Quickcharge, Samsung Adaptive Fast Charge, and more all still on the market.

Re:Apple

[Wycliffe]

That's just the form factor. It's a start. But if you want more than 500mA, there are multiple competing proprietary options for how to deliver higher current. USB Power Delivery is the favored choice, but there is Qualcomm Quickcharge, Samsung Adaptive Fast Charge, and more all still on the market.

The reason that there are competing technologies is because they are each innovating. If you make everyone use only one quick charging standard then you halt progress on innovation on this front. You likely could be causing more problems that you are solving.

Re:Apple

[JackieBrown]

True but they all work interchangeably regardless. You might lose some proprietary bonus like the fast charging you were talking about but you still get the standard usb charge.

Re:Apple

[omnichad]

Charging a modern phone at 500mA is not really a reasonable option. So I might disagree with you there. Overnight charging leads to leaving the phone on the charger past the ideal 40-80% window for battery life.

Re:Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

True, but at least for Samsung (I'm unfamiliar with Qualcomm Quickcharge), the phone can still be charged by regular USB-C. Sure it's slower, but it works just fine. Granted the phone comes with the charger so I use it, but I also have a 6ft USB-C cable hooked up to my tower that I connect my phone to most days. I only really use the fast charger when I'm travelling, want my phone plugged in in a different room, or really need a fast charge. Most days I get enough charge out of just having it hooked up to my PC for the 3 hours I typically use my PC on a given day.

Re:Apple

[serviscope_minor]

USB Power Delivery is the favored choice, but there is Qualcomm Quickcharge, Samsung Adaptive Fast Charge, and more all still on the market.

There are companies making multi-protocol charger chips now.

Re:Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

What dumb phone has a USB type C connector?

Re:Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

umm NO. battery chemistry really does not change

Re:Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

So make the phone smart enough to turn off the charging connection. Anything that requires users to unplug at an appropriate time for "ideal" life is prone to failure because people are easily distracted and mostly stupid. Present company excluded, I'm sure.

Re:Apple

[sjames]

Innovation in quick charging is like "innovation" in dinner forks. UNNEEDED. Any of the current schemes will be fine, they all get the job done. The only problem is that there are too many and they don't inter-operate.

So much for innovation

[Anonymous Coward]

Phone companies: We the EU say stop innovating. You may only use approved connectors that we approve! You may no longer innovate! Think of the Children and all of that mountain of 3 meter high ewaste that eventually gets recycled. No, you must go back to MiniUSB, wait, no go back to USB-B (large square), No, go back to round Nokia tip positive, no go back to hand crank. Do it now or we will sue Google or Apple again because we need more cash.

Re:So much for innovation

[volodymyrbiryuk]

Troll comment. If not for the EU you would still have to use a different charger + cable for each manufacturer or sometimes even for each model from the same manufacturer. What innovation are you talking about? Changing the shape of a connector and make you pay for it is not innovation. You must have forgotten the times where you would have been fucked if you forgot your charger on vacation. Now you can borrow a charger from 90% of phone users.

Re:So much for innovation

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, it was already happening before. Many smarter phones started to have mini or micro USB on them. Not just for charging, it was and is also a convenient data and tethering interface...

Re:So much for innovation

[Anonymous Coward]

Phone companies: We the EU say stop innovating. You may only use approved connectors that we approve! You may no longer innovate! Think of the Children and all of that mountain of 3 meter high ewaste that eventually gets recycled. No, you must go back to MiniUSB, wait, no go back to USB-B (large square), No, go back to round Nokia tip positive, no go back to hand crank. Do it now or we will sue Google or Apple again because we need more cash.

"Innovation" also lead multiple countries developing nuclear weapons powerful enough to destroy the human race a few times over. Didn't matter if the first (and last) time we used them was 70+ years ago.

Not all innovation is welcome, or proves to have a fucking point in the end other than to make some asshole with a stupid idea obscenely rich while poisoning the planet.

Re: So much for innovation

[Anonymous Coward]

well, maybe that was also because the EU and china were pushing for common charger standards at the time when smartphones went big. i canât remember how often a phone of mine died before because that shitty proprietary sonyericsson/motorola/siemens/alcatel charging port died...

Re:So much for innovation

[thegarbz]

You may no longer innovate!

Thank christ! No one should be innovating in this field. They should be working on adopting and implimenting the existing standards that allow far more power delievered than any phone is capable of using as it is from the universally available sources that already exist.

Re: While I understand the clear benefit of a stan

[Zorpheus]

They already had great success with this, with most phones using micro usb. I am not sure why they want more now.

Re: While I understand the clear benefit of a stan

[Anonymous Coward]

Because waiting for the invisible hand of the market to reduce ewaste didn't work.

Politicians != engineers

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do politicians think they can dictate to manufacturers how they may design their products?

Re:Politicians != engineers

[txoof]

Because they're rightfully horrified by the massive piles of E-Waste gathering around the world.

Re:Politicians != engineers

[geekmux]

Because they're rightfully horrified by the massive piles of E-Waste gathering around the world.

Then perhaps they should pull their head out of their ass and address the REAL problem; Greedy manufacturers making hardware that is designed to prematurely fail in order to bolster revenue.

Start forcing vendors to make hardware that lasts 5 - 10 years instead of the disposable crap they offer today. That would do FAR more to combat the e-waste problem.

Re:While I understand the clear benefit of a stand

[OneHundredAndTen]

I have the feeling that traveling abroad is really not your thing.

apple will lock out non apple USB-C changes

[Joe_Dragon]

apple will lock out non apple USB-C changes

Re:apple will lock out non apple USB-C changes

[tsa]

I so hope the EU will do something about that! Ridiculous nonsense.

Re:apple will lock out non apple USB-C changes

[Agripa]

apple will lock out non apple USB-C changes

I so hope the EU will do something about that! Ridiculous nonsense.

The first USB-C controllers advertised in the trade magazines specifically listed charger authentication as a major feature. It was part of the design for USB-C from the start.

Re:apple will lock out non apple USB-C changes

[tsa]

The standard should be called SB instead of USB then because Universal is thrown out the window.

Other way around

[micahraleigh]

How about a study for the common need of EU regulators?

For electrical vehicles ... too

[Anonymous Coward]

will it be one a Tesla's SuperCharger for only Tesla's EVs?

I hope new european normatives for 1 charger for all model of EVs.

Is this still a thing?

[voss]

Isnt Usb C used by both android and apple now?

Re:Is this still a thing?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isnt Usb C used by both android and apple now?

No idea, but since you can plug just about anything into USB (The big type A socket) I'm not sure what difference any of this makes.

If they think we need a standard cord, I'm afraid I just don't care that much.

Of course:

[Beat The Odds]

https://xkcd.com/927/

Re:While I understand the clear benefit of a stand

[JudgeFurious]

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything but if it makes you feel better about yourself to assume that I stay in the small, backward American town I was born in then go right ahead and think that.

razors

[Anonymous Coward]

I want a standard connector between razor blades and eazor handles!

Re:While I understand the clear benefit of a stand

[Anonymous Coward]

Why should there be a law of any kind mandating that different manufacturers all use the same charger? Of course it would be best.

Are you really that dumb? Can't you even think ahead just a little bit?

If this was done, in probably five years time we'd all be bitching about the terrible standard charger all our phones are stuck with when we could all have instead.

Ten years later, they'd finally relax the standard.

Asking government to decide things like this is never a good solution. Never.

Re: While I understand the clear benefit of a stan

[Anonymous Coward]

They already had great success with this, with most phones using micro usb. I am not sure why they want more now.

Because Apple and then others eventually decided "to hell with standards" and drifted away from Micro-USB. I have to have two charging cables in each of our cars at all times because mine uses Micro-USB while her phone uses USB-C.

EU Regulators are Teenagers..?

[geekmux]

EU regulators plan to study whether there is a need for action in the push for a common mobile phone charger following a lack of progress by phone makers towards this goal...

I guess we hire teenagers as EU regulators these days? Apparently none of them recall what the mobile charger landscape looked like not long ago when every damn manufacturer had some proprietary bullshit power connector and oddball voltage requirement. Believe me a LOT of progress has been made to narrow down that field in the last 10 - 15 years.

iPhone and Android users have long complained about using different chargers for their phones.

Guess I'm not really buying this crap either. People are usually die hard fans of one brand or the other. And with the charger/interface market now essentially being narrowed down to two connectors, it's not exactly a difficult task to find the correct power charger that can be plugged in damn near any USB interface that provides power. They even make hybrid cables with both connectors on them as an all-in-one solution.

Re:EU Regulators are Teenagers..?

[SmilingBoy]

Yes, it is a problem. My wife has a work iPhone (Lightning) and a personal Android phone (still with Micro-USB as it is a bit older). I have a new Android phone with USB-C. Our car supports Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. But depending on who is driving (and in the case of my wife which phone she is using), we need to unplug the connector cable, and select the correct one to use. It's just an unnecessary PITA. Looking forward to USB-C for all phones and laptops. You can even charge a laptop with the 18 W phone charger, it just takes a lot longer.

Re:EU Regulators are Teenagers..?

[Anonymous Coward]

They probably do remember, considering they 9 years ago gathered all the major phone makers and basically said "hey, stop these shenanigans and agree on a standard or we'll have to regulate you".

The investigation they now launch may very well conclude that chargers are standardized enough, or maybe they will repeat the threat. Who knows at this point.

Re:EU Regulators are Teenagers..?

[geekmux]

Yes, it is a problem. My wife has a work iPhone (Lightning) and a personal Android phone (still with Micro-USB as it is a bit older). I have a new Android phone with USB-C. Our car supports Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. But depending on who is driving (and in the case of my wife which phone she is using), we need to unplug the connector cable, and select the correct one to use. It's just an unnecessary PITA. Looking forward to USB-C for all phones and laptops. You can even charge a laptop with the 18 W phone charger, it just takes a lot longer.

"Yes, it is a problem."

Yes, I agree. And based on this usage profile, it's a problem for 0.01% of society.

Sorry, but I guess I find it irritating that THIS problem is the kind of shit that gets the attention of regulators. Not blatant price fixing and collusion in the industry. Not bullshit surcharges added with little or no justification. Not "unlimited" data plans that are anything but. Not the millions we've paid these providers to expand their infrastructure so we're not the bandwidth laughing stock of the world (which they pocketed instead)

Hell, this entire problem centers around e-waste, and yet we can't even get regulators to address the very real problem of capitalistic greed enabling the arrogant behavior of purposely making consumer electronics disposable after 12 months. Addressing that problem would do FAR more to curb e-waste than any argument about connector standards.

Re:EU Regulators are Teenagers..?

[serviscope_minor]

I guess we hire teenagers as EU regulators these days? Apparently none of them recall what the mobile charger landscape looked like not long ago when every damn manufacturer had some proprietary bullshit power connector and oddball voltage requirement. Believe me a LOT of progress has been made to narrow down that field in the last 10 - 15 years.

Yes, which coincidentally happned right around the time where the EU said (of chargers) more or less "sort your shit out or we'll sort it out for you".

The manufacturers did, but not quite enough for the EU's satisfaction.

And with the charger/interface market now essentially being narrowed down to two connectors,

3, not 2. Quite a bit of smaller new kit comes with USB micro.

Re:EU Regulators are Teenagers..?

[Anonymous Coward]

Same here. Until I found Micro-USB > Lightning converter from store for about 0.96€. It is still an extra thing to plug in but at least no messing with cable.
Turns out Lightning is technically just USB with different connector. Go figure.

Re: While I understand the clear benefit of a stan

[Anonymous Coward]

They want a standardized charger now. Only 1 kind of charger for all your phones!

The diaper thing was bogus.

[Ungrounded Lightning]

Also, 51,000 tonnes per decade is negligible. We throw out many times that mass in disposable diapers EVERY DAY. Maybe the regulators should focus on something that actually matters.

The diaper thing turned out to be a bogus made-up scare number - as anybody who actually VISITED a landfill at the time could tell: "Where are all those diapers?" Disposable diapers (which, by the way, are biodegradable these days) were such a small part of the waste stream that you often couldn't spot any at all.

What comes around goes around: We're currently going through another iteration with plastic straws, starting from a number "researched" by a curious nine-year-old and quoted as proven fact by the mainstream media.

Also: They DO fail. Then there's exploits...

[Ungrounded Lightning]

As long as chargers are cheap enough to be given away free with a new device, they will continue to be landfilled regardless of whether or not they are compatible with the new device.

Agreed.

Also: Sometimes they DO fail.

- - - -

One thing that really bugs me about using USB as a charging standard: You have to connect the data lines to negotiate a non-trivial charging rate.

This opens the opportunity to include a processor with exploit code in the charger and have it install spyware on the phone. (Russian intelligence did this a few years back, distributing free cellphone chargers to diplomats at a major international conference...)

or stop buying Apple

[slashmydots]

All my phones, tablets, and portable batteries use micro-USB. In fact most phones use type-C now (apparently not my 2018 Samsung J7 though). This article is exclusively talking about Apple, isn't it? Apple customers are beyond all hope and if Apple's monopoly abuse hasn't been stopped by now it never will. Just give up and let the idiots spend 10x more.

Re:or stop buying Apple

[itsdapead]

This article is exclusively talking about Apple, isn't it?

Apple are actually one of the lesser offenders here - sure, they have proprietary sockets on their iDevices but the other end of the cable has always been USB-A that plugged into a socket on the charger - and even the proprietary connectors are standard across the iPod/iPad/iPhone range and have only changed once unless you count the early before-they-were-famous iPods.

I've traveled for years with a mixture of iPad/iPod, android, kindle, 3rd party wireless headphones etc. and only needed to take one charger (plus the appropriate cables).

Plus, there's already rumors that Apple - like every other manufacturer - are going to switch to USB-C (they already have for Macs).

Re:or stop buying Apple

[Actually, I do RTFA]

No, it's talking about dumb phones which still use proprietary adapters and barrel plugs.

Re: While I understand the clear benefit of a stan

[cyber-vandal]

Magical market fairy dust resulted in a plethora of incompatible chargers until the EU stepped in

Re: While I understand the clear benefit of a stan

[Tough Love]

I have to have two charging cables in each of our cars at all times because mine uses Micro-USB while her phone uses USB-C.

I know, right? But USB-C is so much better, I can handle it. Just grab a handful of these to tide you over.

The only fight Apple won't win

[Anonymous Coward]

This may be the only regulatory fight that Apple won't win.
Every pol and parliament member has phone(s) and charger(s) and family members and frustration.

What problem?

[itsdapead]

iPhone and Android users have long complained about using different chargers for their phones.

I think they meant "Long ago, Sony/Erickson, Nokia and Motorola users used to complain about using different chargers for their phones."

Seriously - how is this still a problem? I don't think I've encountered a modern (i.e. post-iPhone) smartphone or tablet - Apple or android - that doesn't come with a charge/sync cable terminating in a standard USB-A plug (worst case - if you use a different adapter it might no charge so quickly)... and now everybody will probably be switching to USB-C anyway which should sort out the fast charging incompatibilities.

OK, if you use different types of devices you might need different cables but I doubt that they're making up those 51000 tons of electrical waste and, at worst, there's only 3 common options (micro-USB, USB-C and Lightning) and since Apple is using USB-C on their laptops already they'll probably switch at some stage.

Re:Also: They DO fail. Then there's exploits...

[another_twilight]

You have to connect the data lines to negotiate a non-trivial charging rate.

There are a couple of manufacturers who make 'USB condoms' - something that negotiates the charging rate on the data lines but only passes through the power lines.

I've used these (no affiliation, just a customer).

Re: While I understand the clear benefit of a stan

[JudgeFurious]

Well thank god for that happening right? I mean the world would probably end if the EU didn't save us from having to have two cables in our car instead of one so both a husband and a wife could charge their phones. That's some epic planet-saving stuff right there.

Excellent idea

[Anonymous Coward]

The future is wireless, as everybody knows (except the old folk), so all they need to do is make wireless charging mandatory. Problem solved.

micro-B problems

[DrYak]

There are also other problems around the micro-B that can lead to problems.

when micro-B was developped :
  - the official specs where only 5v up to 500mA (enven thouhg most desktop can output 1A without problem).
  - there started to be some way to a power adapter to signal higher-than 500mA availability by shorting data-line with resistors.

since then :
  - several manufacturer started their own way to signal various power availability
  - some pseudo-standards like "Power Charge", "Fast Charge", "Dash Charge", etc. which are all specific to some vendors. All using different mixes of higher-voltage and/or much-higher amperage.
  - eventually, true standards like USB PD (power delivery) started appearing, and eventually be available on micro-USB in addition to USB-C.
  - due to the wild jungle of standarts, etc. smartphone themselves have started to get smart about charging, and monitor the voltage input and throttle down charging if voltage drops too much (or throttle up if the charger seems to be able to keep the voltage)
  - conversely some charger started being smart and push up to the USB maximum tolerance (5.2 to 5.4 V) when trying to provide nominal 5V
  - you can't physically push 3A / 4A over an excessively thin wire.

Due to all of the above mess, you could have a phone using micro-USB, a supposedly good charger adapter, and a cable in the middle, but still get stuck at 5V @ 500mA charging, because they aren't all the same brand and can't negociate charging together and/or the cable in the middle is completely crappy.

Now combine with the fact that some flagship smartphones seem to require a pocked nuclear reactor to charge and that the mere 2.5W of lowest-common-denominator might not even cover the needs to just keep the phone alive.

You end up with a situation were from the outside it looks like everything uses the same connector and you could plug everything into everything else thanks to micro-B, but in practice you still have all the problem of before standardization (only now, the problem isn't a visible "won't plug" but a nasty "won't charge" that you won't notice immediately).
Thus again, lots of useless things like every phone needing to be boxed together with matching power-adapter and cable (all compatible with each other).

Luckily for us, as said above, USB came up with the PD standard, and that standard is mandatory on USB3 / USB-C.
So now, at least there's a single protocol that newer phones and chargers can speak together to diagnose what's wrong.

So eventually, you could reach a point where the phone could be displaying clear messages about what went wrong (e.g.: "need a PD power plug that support version X.YY" - and you can check the version advertised on the plug).

Let's hope that we reach this point with USB-C. Or that the EU can manage to beat the manufacturer into this.

And that the manufacturer won't manage to balkanize it again with yet another bullshit round of proprietary extension... well, who am I kiding ?
Brace yourself for "manufacturer-branded Ultra Speed Charge+ variant of USB-C".

And then the same all-over again regarding wireless charging, when Apple decides to be COURAGEOUS and BRAVE to lead the market into even less ports (zero, everything mandatory wireless)

Who's wasting all these adapters?

[sabbede]

It's only the other end of the USB cable you plug into them that varies. I have a ton of them that came with a variety of devices from a host of manufacturers. They all work for whatever I plug into them because they all provide the same power.

So, who the hell is throwing them out? Maybe the EU parliament needs to look into why people are wasting perfectly good AC adapters.

Re:Who's wasting all these adapters?

[ebvwfbw]

I have a pile of these fricking things. From the moto, a G4 and now a new v20 has yet another adapter and it won't take the usb cables I already have. It's a new one. I have a drawer full of transformers going back decades. Some with really odd connectors on the end of them. One of them is for my video camera and that's a really funky one.

Dunno WTF we can't all just have one connector. It's not like the voltages or amperage is different. They have a little bit different amperages, most of them are very close. It's taken care of inside the device anyhow.

The only monster I have is for my ipad. That has a big frickin apple adapter. Of course I can use that to charge an iphone.

Maybe I aught to put the pile up for sale on ebay.

Re:Who's wasting all these adapters?

[sabbede]

Oh, I have a similar drawer but it's been years since anything was added to it. For the last five or six years, I don't think I've gotten anything that didn't come with a standard USB AC adapter providing about 10 watts that wasn't a laptop.

Re: While I understand the clear benefit of a sta

[cyber-vandal]

Yeah fuck the EU. I want to pay a fortune to replace my proprietary charger when it breaks. Free market forever!

Re: While I understand the clear benefit of a sta

[JudgeFurious]

Chargers are cheap.

Re: While I understand the clear benefit of a sta

[cyber-vandal]

They are now