Slashdot Mirror
Java and JavaScript Remain the Top Enterprise Developer Languages For the Cloud, Survey Finds (zdnet.com)
Programmers may love hot newer languages like Kotlin and Rust, but according to a Cloud Foundry Foundation (CFF) recent survey of global enterprise developers and IT decision makers, Java and Javascript are the top enterprise languages. ZDNet: That said, the CFF also found [PDF] that, "More and more, businesses are employing a polyglot and a multi-platform strategy to meet their exact needs." The CFF discovered 77 percent of enterprises are using or evaluating Platforms-as-a-Service (PaaS); 72 percent are using or considering containers; and 46 percent are using or thinking about serverless computing. Simultaneously, more than a third (39 percent) are using all three technologies together. For companies this "flexibility of cloud-native practices enables [companies to move] away from a monolithic approach and towards a world of computing that is flexible, portable and interoperable." That means, while Java and JavaScript are only growing ever more popular, the larger the company, the more languages are used. After the Java twins, C++, C#, Python, and PHP are the most popular languages.
I wonder how many people polled didn't know that Java and Java Script are totally different things and if that skewed the results?
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Which is which?
If they're twins they're definitely not identical, and one's good and the other is evil.
They don't share common DNA, other than being programming languages from the distant ancestor known as great, great grand daddy "C". They are not even close to twins, they are not even siblings. They are more like 2nd cousins twice removed and then only by marriage.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
You mean the language that's open source, standard, works as a base logic language interpreted within all browsers on planet earth and runs the client side, server side and database all in a singular easy to use syntax is popular?
Unfortunately no, the survey said JavaScript.
[Disclaimer: I'm not the GP AC, but the subject of his message should have given you a clue.]
Java is good. In an A/B comparison, the best feature of Java vs Javascript are: static type, and it's shipped as a binary instead of text. On a wish-list of language features, Java's biggest flaw is the lack of value types and references.
Javascript is pure evil. It has dynamic type w/ surprising/evil implicit conversions. Furthermore, it has whitespace-sensitive parsing that requires the careful use of dangling curly braces if you want to avoid being a victim of the 2nd worst form of parser-evil ever inflicted on developers (the worst being Python).
tl;dr: Java is almost a great language. Javascript is a burning turd that we only tolerate because it's available in all web browsers.
I wonder how much of this is driven by a lack of vision, and simple inertia. I've used Rails as my main tool for 10-11 years, since the 2.x days. In the company I work for now, the one app I had written has been mothballed, and I was told I could no longer use it.* My choices were either .NET or Java, and that's simply because we had been an "IBM/Oracle shop" for 25 years, until we became a "Microsoft shop" since transitioning to O365. Because what I'm integrating with is all Java, I chose Java, but these days, to even try to compete against modern stacks, that implies Spring, and either Angular or React.
My theory is that old, manufacturing-based companies are just locked into a mindset of "this is what we do," and that comes from an answer from 20-30 years ago. They don't care to optimize for IT tools, because it's not their expertise, and they're throwing money down the drain because the C-levels just play the game of hiring consultants to implement whatever Microsoft pays to put in the trade magazines. So we get H1-B's with, and outsource for, that skillset. And then the consulting industry educates and trains for this skillset, and it becomes a self-perpetuating legacy situation, a little like Cobol and mainframes. We just can't get away from it, because it's too hard to switch everything to something else.
* The person responsible for the decision told me, "You're the only person in the company who knows it." I asked, "Rails is the most productive thing I've seen in 15 years; why wouldn't we hire for that?" I didn't get a response.
I've come to the conclusion that I hate using Java for web apps.
Acts 17:28, "For in Him we live, and move, and have our being."
The survey analysis seems to be written by people who don't understand programming at all. The conclusions are completely idiotic.
First complaint: JavaScript is not a darling language everyone loves. It's the only language that runs on a web browser (*). So stop acting impressed or surprised at it's popularity! Duhhh!
Check out some of these gems:
But enterprise-sized companies are now using multiple languages for their projects. That's new. Historically, larger companies have practiced tighter control over production projects.
Historically, we had the ability to use a single language. But we can't any more, because every project must be JavaScript + something + probably SQL. Yes, the "something" could be JavaScript, but that isn't usually the best choice on the server side. This isn't what we *want* it is what we are stuck with because of the browser. This conclusion would only seem meaningful if you were looking at the statistics over time, but had no idea what you were talking about.
For students and programmers looking for a corporate job, it's clear the older languages are the way to go. The future is in the cloud, but its languages are decades old. At the same time, they'd be wise to pick up containers, cloud, and container manager
I don't even know what this is saying. How can the future be old? Or the cloud, which is new, be using old languages? Then they confuse languages with containers. It almost looks like a Markov generator wrote this paragraph.
the larger the company, the more languages are used.
Wait, you mean having more projects means more languages? Well it cannot possibly mean LESS languages, so this conclusion is completely mindless!
(*) Even if a developer codes in TypeScript, they would still answer "JavaScript" for survey purposes since it is never totally hidden.
I am not Scottish, but if I were this would merit at least one jing. perhaps even a criven.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Only computer illiterate retards use Javascript.
On server side, you mean. Choosing Javascript on server side really should be a firing offense when superior alternatives such as Go are available. Client side is an entirely different story, seeing as there is no alternative. But that doesn't make it right.
While I'm in here: when the hell is Javascript going to get real integers? The fact that this has been treated as zero priority by the standards group shows you what level of talent goes into the Javascript ecosystem.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
There's some things that Javascript does better than anything else. Like asynchronous IO. If you don't think that might be important server side, then you're doing things that are very different from what I'm doing.
Now, if I were doing math or science-y stuff, obviously I would choose something else.
There's some things that Javascript does better than anything else. Like asynchronous IO
Really? You need to read this. Average 1 microsecond per request. Let's see you do that in Node. (And this is supposed to be Node's strongest point, I just don't buy it.)
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
That's actually kind of impressive, the fact that he's comparing it to ruby performance notwithstanding.
The complexity of assembler with the efficiency of javascript.
http://saveie6.com/
is that it's a proxy measurement for Web based applications. PHBs love their Web apps.
And the real significance of this article is that what programmers want doesn't matter. Just take the money and write the code, code monkey. And try to forget why you went into software in the first place, because none of that matters anymore.
Serious people use C++.
There's some things that Javascript does better than anything else. Like asynchronous IO.
...what? If they're so good at that, why are they hiding it and forcing you into shitty half-baked hand-written continuations instead?
Ezekiel 23:20
The author of this article has never touched a line of code in his life.
http://web.archive.org/web/20170208150733/https://github.com/uWebSockets/uWebSockets/wiki/(More-than)-one-million-requests-per-second-in-Node.js
I write my own GUI stuff and I use Python. I used to use Perl, which is a very, very messy language. I got fed up with that and switched.
No regrets. A reasonably clean object-oriented language is what you want to tame the mess.
Can't really defend the lambdas, but the rest of it... oh yeah.
I've also done C++ with MFC, because PHBs. It's a bit of of a mess, but at least it's a fast mess.
Hnm, bible sig. I better tiptoe around you.
So, you admit you don't use or understand JavaScript.
As much as Rust has its fanboys, the issue remain that it doesn’t offer many benefits over C and to get any real work done you have to write bindings in C anyway. And then you’re offered to write major issues into RFC where they get endlessly debated between Poettering-style purists and practicalists.
A language should work, not ideally but practically. If I can’t write things natively because some idealistic thread or type safety issues that don’t agree with the real world (where we have things like OpenGL, interrupts and DMA) then the language is good for theoretical work only.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Except for the fact you really don't have alternatives if you need a Web Based Application of any complexity.
JavaScript has its issues. But dealing with Javascript is better then trying to figure out how to deploy an application to hundreds of people. With different systems and security levels.
Being that most applications are a form that you fill out, check to make sure the data is required is filled in correctly and then saved on a database somewhere else. Web Based Applications makes sense.
Now JavaScript is the only common language that works across browsers.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
The problem on the server side. If you are a company you need to be sure you can find staff to support your project. And not recode it every few years.
Java Has been around for over 20 years now. There are a lot of Java Programmers out there.
Go may be a better Language. But Google has a history of dropping technologies. And it may sometime be tricky to find a Go programmer in all areas.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
... is the impotent anger of the pedantic, whiny, irrelevant failures who can't stop complaining about the fact that they learned the wrong set of tools but refuse to admit it.
i could live a little longer in this prison
Go is a fun language, and it's great for writing custom servers and deployment tools. That said, it just doesn't have the library support that Java has, and I would not recommend using it for standard enterprise software for that reason. It also has backwards compatibility problems when compared to Java.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
I once had a job interview where they asked me if I knew Java script. After discussing the job with them it became clear to me that they where looking for a Java programmer, not a Java Script jockey, but the interviewer didn't know the difference. I didn't figure it was my place to educate the guy. A couple of days later they wanted to discuss making me an offer, but I told them I didn't think the situation was a good fit for me.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
If you're of them theist crazies, do that.
Ezekiel 23:20
You've probably never heard of them.
Sig. Sig. Sputnik
Two words: Promise and await.
Seven words: Out of the frying pan, into the fire.
(Scheme had promises around 1990, BTW. So JS is "only" a quarter century behind or so...)
Ezekiel 23:20
So, you admit you don't use or understand JavaScript.
My guess is he's using TypeScript or a similar bastardized mauling of JS.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
What kind of edge does a low level knowledge of underlying AJAX give you?
Go may be a better Language. But Google has a history of dropping technologies.
Go is widely used outside Google both by individuals and enterprises. Go is entirely open source.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Go is a fun language, and it's great for writing custom servers...
Right, like web backends. My point.
it just doesn't have the library support that Java has
Go's FFI (foreign function interface) gives efficient access to C libraries, which is to say, pretty much everything you need.
I would not recommend using it for standard enterprise software for that reason..
I was comparing Go to Node.js, remember? Anybody who chooses Node.js for a web server backend should be fired before they spread, I stand by that.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
I think you replied to the wrong comment.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
That would be another flaw in your thinking.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
You should go reply to the guy who was talking about JavaScript. I was replying to someone who was talking about Java.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Four posts back: "Choosing Javascript on server side really should be a firing offense". Two posts back: "I was comparing Go to Node.js, remember?" Did you really just do what you did? Are you really that wrapped up in yourself?
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Most of us use tech based on what it does today, not on what the tech landscape looked like 25 years ago.
If you prefer to use state of the art 90s tech, go ahead.
Fortunately my state-of-the-art 90's tech is a decade or two ahead of yours "today's tech", so I'm rather happy with it.
Ezekiel 23:20