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Federal Judge Rules Against Trump Administration on 3-D Gun Blueprint Case (latimes.com)
A federal judge on Monday issued a preliminary injunction continuing a prohibition on the Trump administration proposal to make available blueprints for so-called ghost guns, untraceable weapons that can be manufactured on a 3-D printer, California Atty. Gen. Xavier Becerra said. From a report: California was one of 20 states led by Washington that won the decision from U.S. District Judge Robert S. Lasnik in Seattle. The injunction extends a ruling last month that barred the Trump administration from taking steps that would allow the firm Defense Distributed to disseminate 3-D gun blueprints. "When the Trump Administration inexplicably gave the green light to distribute on the internet blueprints of 3D-printed, untraceable ghost guns, it needlessly endangered our children, our loved ones and our men and women in law enforcement," Becerra said in a statement. "The Trump Administration's actions were dangerous and incompetent."
What is so complicated about "[s]hall not be infringed?"
You can make a shotgun out of two pieces of pipe and a nail.
How many of these clowns are there....
Not if Defense Distributed was a major campaign donor.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
What grounds are there for stopping this information from being published? I mean, you need complicated machines and a lot of knowledge to actually use it don't you? If you have that much knowledge how hard can it be to come up with the plans yourself? Even so, I can find information on how to build bombs a plenty, destroy sensitive infrastructure , avoid surveillance ,and kill people with various types of poisons and weapons, some of which I can outright buy on the internet.
So WHAT is danger is this preventing , other then making those lobbing for gun restrictions looks like loonies? I mean , there must be 5000 better ways to protect people from Gun violence, why spend your time and resources? What is the gain?
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
For all those who were asleep in high school or just dumb enough and need blueprints.
You should have enough knowledge to do a cannon or a howizer in under 1 hour.
Making a fun requires basic understanding of materials and mechanics, it is not complicated.
The code is already out there. Ultimately, the SCOTUS will rule that code is free speech.
"There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and
it needlessly endangered our children, our loved ones and our men and women in law enforcement.
I would so much rather a criminal attempt a public shooting with a flimsy piece of shit that's as likely to explode in his hand as it is to hurt someone else than with a rifle with a modified lower receiver. These stupid trinkets are not an issue, actual firearms are easier and cheaper to obtain than a damn 3D printer. Priorities, people.
preliminary injunction continuing a prohibition on the Trump administration proposal to make available blueprints for so-called ghost guns, untraceable weapons
The Trump administration makes no such proposal to make available blueprints for so-called ghost guns.
Defense distributed plans to do this all on their own; The administration simply acknowledges the rule of law that
under the constitution that congress is not allowed to have a prior restraint on the release to 1st amendment Free Speech rights;
that is, the US government has no lawful authority to interfere with Defense Distributed publishing plans.
The same is true of the states as well; the mere fact that they found a judge to issue an unlawful order restraining the
publication does not mean that it is the Trump Administration's preference that DD release their plans, let-alone a proposal.
You mean those pieces of melty plastic that will, with luck, allow you to shoot one bullet somewhat in the direction you intended before going gooey and useless? Those "untraceable ghost guns"?
That bullet is still going to be a regular bullet packed with regular smokeless powder in a regular brass case with a regular primer. And in fact the striker is still metal. But hey, don't let that stand in the way of a good solid outrageous moral panic.
I always wondered what the idea behind the entire endeavour was, until I decided the 3d printed gun guy and his company are basically the corporate equivalent of a forum troll. They certainly managed to rile up the politicians of those above 20 states. Good on them.
"The Trump Administration's actions were dangerous and incompetent"
So are the thoughts of the left wing idiots for ignoring the real issue of ignoring people breaking the laws and mental health! Instead they want to blame an object for killings. Blame the person pulling the trigger, they control the gun and the outcome! Criminals don't care about laws! If someone wants to kill, they will do so no matter what using whatever they want!
Politicians are such idiots, a bunch of Granny Smiths. All that data is out there available as torrents, etc. Everyone who wanted it now has it, anyone new who wants it can just download the info elsewhere.
... in terms of making a decent firearm that is better that what anybody could put together at Home Depot.
In terms of real make-at-home untraceable firearms, you need a CNC mill and an 80% lower. And you can order both, online, at a very reasonable price:
https://www.wired.com/2015/06/...
The AK-47 is way ahead of these on the open-source fire arm bandwagon. The Trump administration is sticking with what the constitution says, this activist judge and all the me-too's from elsewhere are virtue-signaling their left wing stances.
This is a combined 1st and 2nd amendment issue - shutting it down is violating both, I don't care what the laws of non-U.S. countries are. It's not our job to enforce the laws of other countries, if they don't want their people getting what's on U.S. servers it's their job to block their users, not ours.
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From the ruling: "...private defendants have a First Amendment right to disseminate the the CAD files. That right is currently abridged..."
From the 1st Amendment to the Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech..."
Yet here we are.
We! Are! Family! Get! Up! Every! Body! And! Sing! Child! Sing!
This whole case so much reminds me of the PGP and DeCSS cases, and if printing them in books was protected speech or not.
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
The Trump administration doesn't give a damn about the Constitution. You're talking about a would-be autocrat that works to undermine the courts and the free press.
Idiots who call being a decent person "virtue signaling" are scoundrel-signaling.
I don't care what the laws of non-U.S. countries are. It's not our job to enforce the laws of other countries
Actually, in some cases US law requires the enforcement for foreign laws (even if those laws are ridiculous).
The Lacey act governs some imports into the USA, and prohibits a number of things. It is also illegal under the Lacey act to import things into the USA in violation of any foreign law.
An importer is obligated to not only know & comply with US laws, but all foreign laws that apply.
And yes, the US has prosecuted people for exactly that.
https://openscholarship.wustl....
https://georgetownlawjournal.o...
Then the supreme court will rule in favor of the right to publish the plans. It'll be a 7-2 decision, with several people "shocked" that a couple of the liberal justices switched sides (primarily because this REALLY is a free speech issue, not a 2nd amendment issue).
This is about the dumbest anti-gun stuff I've ever seen. Can't we at least just ban stupid stuff everyone at least agrees on is bad, like those auto-fire things they use to get around machine gun laws?
dangerous and incompetent.
I didn't vote for Trump, but I certainly viewed him to be well described by those two words when he was running. While I agree with pretty well nothing he has done (especially as POTUS though generally throughout his life), if he embraced that as his next campaign slogan I would have to acknowledge "mission accomplished" for him.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Those who already have the plans will be releasing them to the wild. 3D printed guns will be for everyone to use.
I know about getting into trouble due to packaging lobsters improperly due to laws of another nation etc....
Doesn't mean I think it's right.
If we are intentionally importing/exporting to another nation - sure, make sure the laws line up. Unless that is the case, then fuck-all.
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I don't care that there will be another school/theatre/work shooting this week and another shooting next week and so on and so on. Some old turds said any nutjob can own a gun and so that is the law. (The same old turds didn't see anything wrong with slavery but that's another story.) Anyway, not enough people in america cherish their children enough to change the laws. So suck it.
There are many cases where he has supported the constitution including his Supreme Court pick of constitutionalist Kavanaugh. He frequently speaks out in defense of both 1st and 2nd amendment rights. He speaks out against Fake News, not against the "Free Press". He rightfully opposes the MSM propaganda machine that have sold their souls to push for Democrat empowerment and not to inform. Your "Trump is the Devil!" beliefs lead you to speak unconvincingly to his supporters because you speak provably false things. Free yourself from your left wing echo chambers that misinform you, embrace facts instead of unsubstantiated feelings and be happy again!
Sorry, but blacks are getting out of poverty and their unemployment numbers are at record lows. I understand you must be a racist and be upset by this, but thats how it is now. DNC has attempted to keep blacks as slaves, prevent them from voting, and recently to keep them in poverty reliant on the government. The GOP has freed the slaves, gotten them the right to vote, and is now helping them get out of poverty.
It must really suck to be a KKK, Robert Byrd, DNC supporter these days.
How short our memories are.
When Obama first took office there was an outcry from both the left and right about the pressure the Obama administration put on news organizations that caused the purge of many journalist. There were articles everywhere about the purges on people getting fired all over the place to keep the administration happy - then silence - then most of the old articles slowly got purged from the archives. The only remnants of that era that are still in the "public memory" are the Fox News spats.
Unlike the previous administration - and the combined corporate efforts of corporations against their political enemies today - Trump hasn't done anything to stop the press. He just makes fun of the organizations he disagrees with mercilessly. Fox and other right-wing / independent media were straight up barred from the White House during much of the previous administration with other pressures outside of that.
To accuse President Trump of being anti-press when all he's doing is having name calling sessions with the ones he doesn't like and pretending he's the first president to have disagreements with the press is disingenuous at the least. This was even brought up on Slashdot in the past.
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1 - free speech implications.
2 - since when does talking about legal items become illegal?
okay, so can they share the blueprints still or not?
My understanding is that 3D printers generally use plastic, which is why some people have been freaking out about "undetectable" guns.
But plastic is too weak for most ammunition. A CNC mill can actually make receivers of metal that will stand up to abuse. And plans for that have been around for years.
Really, even a zip gun made from hardware store water pipe is 'better'. But i dont think that is the point, its a test bed for encroachment on knowledge.. scary stuff.
If this judge can just blatantly ignore the Constitution then why can't the state department and DOJ ignore his ruling and unofficially cease to enforce this law. Its quite obvious based on supreme court ruling on related material (bombs, improvised devices of destruction) that you can't outlaw a book with instructions. The anarchist cookbook is a good example. The judge himself even admitted that he was infringing on the defendants 1st amendment rights in his own statement. Claiming that this worthless gun would damage national security as an excuse to block these plans is ludicrous to anyone with the least bit of sanity. There are far superior weapons readily available. On top of that these plans are already available practically everywhere but Defense Distributed and still not a single case that I am aware of where they have been used in a crime. Saying these plans irreparably damage states security is a lie that everyone can see. This judge needs to be removed. If he would like to run for Congress and then change the Constitution he is welcome to. But his position does not grant the right to arbitrarily ignore the highest law in the land while making up his own.
2 pipes, one pipe cap, one nail, solder, heat source, drill + ammunition: a shotgun.
I think it's equally hard to protect against "ghost guns" as against Spectre. Anybody that can make a working weapon using a normal 3D printer can make one anyway IMO/IME. Sensitive basterds those glorified hot plastic squirters...
That's a fascinating read, thank you. I've been meaning to get a gun myself, but the bureaucratic process is just overwhelming (by design).
The only question is, once I follow the steps and manage to finish the remaining 20% of the lower receiver myself, would it be legal for me to transport this firearm — such as to a range to test it (and myself)?
Or will any cop be able to confiscate it — and put me away for a long time — because of the simple possession?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
The one thing I cant stand is the way everything is Trumps fault. It was the same for Obama, when he was Pres everything was his fault. It isnt the president, they only server for at the most 8 years. Now Congreass, yes I meant to spell it like that, gets to mess up the country until they die if they get elected that long. Why are they allowed to influence for far longer than they understand the United States and how we as a people feel. When you are almost 90 you should no longer be actually in office. Maybe a consultant but not in congress or the senate. This is the real issue, they have created what Trump calls the "Deep State". This has been in place for a long time. We need to regulate congress and the senate by curbing the term they can officially be in office to 12 years total. They should not be allowed to move to another district and get any more time to weasel their back in and attempt to direct the country in the way THEY want it and not the ones that elected their butts. Just my opinion as an independent American.
Ah the "routinely overturned" trope. 83% of all supreme court decisions overturn the lower or appellate court. The 9th circuit isn't even close to the most overturned.
This makes sense when you consider that the Supreme court generally doesn't take cases where they agree with the court ruling. If they agree with it why would they even hear the case? They get more than 10K applications every session and can hear about 80. That's a LOT of rejections.
If it's illegal to transmit plans for making guns, then how on earth can it be legal to publicize information on how to make nuclear weapons? A lone whackjob killing one person far away has no possibility of affecting me, but a nuclear weapon detonating in the US most certainly would.
Of course, there's the lazy argument that it's a lot harder to make a nuke, but that's dodging the issue. Technology progresses over time, things that used to be hard can become easy overnight once the right discovery happens.
... The technology is inherently uncontrollable. They can't stop pictures of naked children getting raped and you think you're going to stop gun blueprints? You can't stop pirated video games or bomb recipes...
This cannot be stopped.
All the judges and lawyers are doing is demonstrating their impotence.
It cannot be stopped.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Maybe we should prevent dissemination of the 1993 movie "In the Line of Fire" where John Malkovich shows how to build a plastic resin gun and sneak the bullets and any other metal parts past security.
How short our memories are.
I remember you personally having hysterical freakouts during the Obama administration as you railed against their supposed misdeeds, how you couldn't even stand it when Obama offered the most tepid criticisms, and if he slightly mispoke, you went on a foaming at the mouth crusade.
Now? Suddenly you're just indifferent to Trump's behavior, or blind to it. You don't care what he does. Lies, frauds, or just plain rambling babble, doesn't matter to you.
But you're still bitter over a misquote you made about Nancy Pelosi, the enemy you still want purged.
After all, it's no big problem to get a real gun in the US. These files are for the those who don't have the privilege of living in such a benevolent regime. Hopefully theses files posted for non-US builders will give some of the worlds assholes something to keep them up at night worrying about their ill-gotten gains.
But I wish there was something we could do more rapidly in the legal domain for these obstructionist judges who think they can legislate from the bench, knowing full well they will be reversed as it goes up the hierarchy, but counting on getting their way until it does, and seldom suffering any punishment for their crimes. Suggestions welcomed.
They sell them at S-Mart back in sporting goods. Aisle 5.
Remember, shop SMART, shop S-MART!
It’s not incomprehensible. “... shall not be infringed.” Is clear language, as is the first amendment since these files are nothing more than modern descriptions of a firearm.
... or properly a law could create one.
And, one can legally produce unserialized firearms for personal use already. And one can find instructions online and buy the parts for less than $20 to make a slam fire shotgun. And one can buy an “80%” receiver and make an inexpensive 45 pistol, AR-15, AK-47, etc.
This is nothing but legislating a specific technology. Where in the Constitution is it specified a Judge can overrule the Executive Branch? They need to uphold the laws and rights allowing publication, not judicially create new law.
It’s time to consider impeaching activist judges that legislate from the bench. Maybe a judicial review panel that refers impeachment’s to the Congress of activist judges. Surely some activist judge can create such a panel.
- Tjp
I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
Could you freakin tell that to your leaders then?? And their livestock (war nuts, aka most of your citizens) too?
Instead of meddling with ALL the countries you possibly can!?
Two words that accurately describe and summarize the current Administration. Hats off to the judge on a sound decision, especially in an age where there appears to be a serious lack thereof. Granted, you won't stop file sharing this way, or any other way...where there is a will, there will ALWAYS be a way.
Fortunately, Gunsmithing Made Easy is still available. As are thousands of other titles on making firearms at home.
You state it like the government granted us the right to "keep and bear arms". That is now how the Bill of Rights work. The point is to restrain the government from infringing on rights we already have. In the US, our rights don't come from government.
Build a gun with a drill press and hand tools! Lots of other related books telling you how to make even simpler guns, ammunition, even gunpowder. Buy from Amazon, have it on your Kindle a matter of seconds!
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
"Abridge literally means you left no bridge, so "shall not abridge" doesn't mean there are no rules to navigate, only that there is a path through those rules that leads to exercising the right."
“But the plans were on display”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
How are these different than any other blueprint? There are plenty of firearms diagrams and dimension guides floating around.
And as the court order specifies, the files can still legally be "emailed, mailed, securely transmitted or otherwise published within the United States." https://www.npr.org/2018/08/27...
Oh no an opinion that differs from mine! I better hurt then in their imaginary internet points. Get laid virgin... that was the most pathetic thing I have read today
The vz 58 is a lot better choice if you're going to make your own AK-47 like rifle.. The 58 is milled while most AK variants are made of stamped sheet metal. Stamped is cheaper if you're making a lot of a gun. But if you're a hobbyist a milled design will be better since it has less start up cost. This is a part of the reason that one of the designs that DD released was the 58. I intend to build one if I can save up enough to get a good mill.
You sure told him, Comrade Wang!
I'm a leftist who (generally) supports gun ownership and this whole "Ghost Gun" thing really is just scaremongering over the larger issue of guns.
I'm not afraid of a plastic one-shot .22 handgun. No politician should be either.
If I was GOING to be afraid of a gun (which I'm not really?) I'd be afraid of something like say, a hi-point c9 which can be had for $50-150 brand new and fires a deadlier round, more of them, and shoots straight. A criminal does not give 3/5ths of a shit that the gun can be traced, and especially not because $50-150 is ass-wiping money if you're going to profit from whatever you do. C9s are just as disposable as a 3d printed gun, it's just that they actually do their job better and likely won't spray shrapnel into your face.
Oh, wait, that's the opposite of what they do.
Are you sure you know what you're talking about?
There are also treaties to consider. There was a famous case where people in a midwestern State were hunting a migratory bird that was illegal to shoot in Canada. We had a treaty with Canada that included rules for hunting game that crossed borders, so the Court said, "Sorry State, treaties are the supreme law of the land so Canada wins." Yes, "supreme law of the land". A treaty could even override the Constitution.
All this noise...for what? a little more trump derangement syndrome feeding?
The plans are already out there.
All this did was advertised they existed.
It's over folks, nothing to see here, move along, next BS news story is incoming.
This whole thing is stupid piled on brainless.
This isn't really a proper gun. Try to fire it with any purchased ammo then the plastic thing would not reliably function. It is fake. It is a fraud.
If you wish to find information about how to make real guns, search US patents. That's right, the US government REQUIRES publishing the nature of gun design if you want patent protection for your developments.
People in rather undeveloped countries are making real functioning guns in crude workshops. The copies they make are of modern high function firearms that work. This is the US where tools and materials are more easily acquired. Fighting information in the US about manufacturing things is like fighting arrogance in France. It is abusing the essential nature of the people.
If state law bozos wanted to actually do something besides grandstanding they could probably successfully fight the distribution of these plans on the grounds of public safety and wanton endangerment. The plastic gun is inherently unsafe. It is fraudulent to call it a gun. Distributing plans and calling them firearm plans is a public safety issue. Some moron may actually try to fire ammo in one and hurt himself or others. It's like selling rat poison in a sugar package.
Looks like her own people want her purged now, so maybe I'm just ahead of the curve.
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This is real news. It really happened, stop with that BS.
Everything else you said was spot on. It is somewhat of a slippery slope that could go bad. I think that anyone providing these files, or really any information about making guns for personal use, should be required to include the information you posted. Because as you noted, you have to be LEGALLY able to use that information, and people should understand the law if they would make one and NOT be legally able to do so. Also the part about being prohibited from creating guns that cannot be detected by metal detectors.
People need to be more EDUCATED about guns, and in this case about obtaining these plans. Because we can't rely on their common sense, or lack thereof.
I find it troubling that guns are such a polarizing issue. They are not the cause of all the horrendous things they can do, it is how we operate as people and a society with each other that drives the horrible acts that people do. As long as people think "all guns are bad" or "I should be able to own ANY kind of gun I want" then we won't be able to achieve sane solutions.
P.S. I am a multiple gun owner, and live where I can legally carry concealed.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Or Necessary and Liberty-Affirming?
Shall. Not. infringe.
Liberals will one day teach us their "common-sense" anti-gun wisdom, at the points of their own hired guns! :-/
Looks like her own people want her purged now, so maybe I'm just ahead of the curve.
Nope. She'll cruise to victory in California 12. I'm sure you're just confused by how California's jungle primary works. It actually leads to a diversity of candidates, though it does have some faults.
But hey, how do you feel now that Trump has just gone out on Twitter and proclaimed everything you said yesterday was totally bogus?
Got to be some tasty nails you're chewing.
I think it's great you're all hot and bothered for Pelosi, but not all of your people share your attraction for her.
I think it's great you've avoided talking about her twin ding-bat that's been hosting a Chinese spy for years.
Since you obviously follow Donald Trump on Twitter and I don't, you had me at a disadvantage. I had to go find what you were talking about that would have me spitting nails. I found this one about rigged algorithms. This isn't news, I've been using Google+ since it premiered and it's incredibly obvious during each election since it came out. Since we were talking about Obama, media and what Trump said about them, I did find a tweet from a couple of days ago where he mentioned Obama and media in the same tweet. Exactly which one is supposed to have me spitting nails?
You are demonstrating the difference between the rabbid left and the rest of us - and by the rest of us I mean Republicans, Libertarians, Don't Give a Shits, and non-radical Democrats.
I'm giving references and links. - You are not, and putting words into the mouths of others. Just like the press and lawyers attacking Alex Jones but not actually playing clips of him doing what they're accusing him of.
I'm using my real handle which is pointless to dox, I'm not hiding. - You on the other hand are A/C wearing a mask and on the attack like those Anti-First Amendment thugs, Antifa
Honestly I hope Pelosi cleans up and wins again, it's good for the entertainment value. It's California, so whoever wins is likely to a communist who cares more about bathroom politics than making the country work right anyways. Pelosi is good for a laugh and is a poster child for the Walk Away movement. I hope she stays out there.
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