Is Chrome OS Threatening Windows? (arstechnica.com)

Ars Technica sees new $600 "premium Chromebooks" Dell, Samsung, HP, and Lenovo as a growing challenge to Windows, proving that Chrome OS is reaching beyond the education market. These $600 machines aren't aimed at those same students. Lenovo reps told us that its new Chromebook was developed because the company was seeing demand for Chromebooks from users with a bit more disposable income. For example, new college students that had used Chrome OS at high school and families who wanted the robustness Chrome OS offers are looking for machines that are more attractive, use better materials, and are a bit faster and more powerful. The $600 machines fit that role.

And that's why Microsoft should be concerned. This demand shows a few things. Perhaps most significantly of all, it shows that Chrome OS's mix of Web applications, possibly extended with Android applications, is good enough for a growing slice of home and education users. Windows still has the application advantage overall, but the relevance of these applications is diminishing as Web applications continue to improve... Second, this demand makes clear that exposure to Chrome OS in school is creating sustained interest in, and even commitment to, the platform. High school students are wanting to retain that familiar environment as they move on. The ecosystem they're a part of isn't the Windows ecosystem. Finally, it also shows that Chrome OS's relatively clean-slate approach (sure, it's Linux underneath, but it's not really being pushed as a way of running traditional Linux software) has advantages that are appealing even to home users. The locked down, highly secure Chrome OS machines require negligible maintenance while being largely immune to most extant malware.

Comments

Microsoft seen this threat before

[xack]

Back in the 90s when Netscape was launched there was the talk that the browser could replace the OS. That's what caused Microsoft to push Internet Explorer so hard, to stop Netscape replacing their Windows Monopoly. Imagine an alternate future where we have NetscapeOS and Netscapebooks. I expect Microsoft to eventually crack down hard on Chromebooks, just like they stopped Linux netbooks by licensing Windows XP cheaply to OEMS on netbooks.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

literally six hundred bucks for this?

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[jon3k]

just like they stopped Linux netbooks by licensing Windows XP cheaply to OEMS on netbooks.

That's not what stopped Linux-based netbooks, otherwise we'd still have Windows based netbooks. Tablets and smartphones killed the netbook.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Build6]

The ecosystem is rather different now, though. One wonders how much power MS can wield against Chromebooks. They've been helpless to stop Android or iOS (now markets that completely dwarf their old Windows monopoly). About the only thing I can think of where they could sabotage the rise of things like Chromebooks would be their still-extant stranglehold over Office file formats, but that's definitely less important than it used to be.

If Chromebooks really do take over, even MacOS will have to get worried. Anyone has access to the Google campus? What's the ratio of MacBooks vs. Pixelbooks now?

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[lucasnate1]

Nowadays, with the advance of mobile devices, are they still powerful enough to do that?

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

And even office apps are moving to web apps now. My kid's school uses Google Docs. The company I work for uses Google Docs. The advantages are highly compelling compared to traditional office tools. We're going to see more and more momentum in that direction over time, but it is already big.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux wasn't ready for the desktop then...still isn't. Microsoft didn't have to do anything other than keep their fingers on the pulse.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Alumoi]

Suure, we'll all live in the cloud. Because, fuck privacy and the internet is always available, right?

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[postbigbang]

Imagine you have the world's most bloated operating system, supporting legacy APIs so old and iteratively patched and fixed that your code base has become pretty wretched. So wretched, you had to give it away after charging for it for years, losing much of your appeal. But big business and gov bought your stuff like lemmings.

The Chromebook is a wickedly tawdry attempt at a cloud access device, but it plays videos, and allows online fun and games at a snail's pace, with hardly any storage or computational power. And it's slim, kinda sorta maybe low-priced.

Because there are only two eyes, and only twenty-four hours, a Chromebook appears to be a fearsome competitor, cool access device, and is really nothing more than that. But see 2eyes/24hour.

It oozes delightful subscription models that work more with Google's cadre of ugly apps than Microsoft's cadre of ugly online apps. Follow the money, and you'll find the motivation. Oh yeah, privacy? Har. Accessibility whilst off grid? Har har. Security? There are great arguments for a low attack profile... until one of them cracks Google or cracks Microsoft. It's only a matter of time until one or the other is broken and burglarized, along with every chunk of info about you or owned by you.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

Given that this discussion revolves around Googles offerings in relation to Microsoft's alternatives, Windows Spyware Edition and the heavily promoted "Office Sometimes Edition" what's your point?

If you value your privacy, you can use Libre Office, however, that's not what this discussion is about.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[MightyYar]

It was certainly ready enough to force MS to practically give away their OS.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[MightyYar]

You don't have a Chromebook. I can tell because you think it only works when the internet is active. That's true if you want to collaborate (duh), and it's true if you want to play on YouTube - but the office applications work with local storage. It's not my cup of tea, but these things are wonderful if you have kids - under $200, super easy to disassemble and fix (there's nothing in them), very good battery life, and nearly impossible to bugger up the OS.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

But can it run Crysis

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[ITRambo]

MS has been trying to fend off Chromebooks in US schools for many years. They failed. Windows RT and 10 S were and are much more work to administer, and cost more in the long run for that reason. School IT departments love the ease of setup of Chromebooks. If a kid breaks his Chromebook, you just login to another one and all your stuff appears. School kids are growing up to become consumers that likely will prefer what they're used to using. That's what the Ars article is about. The future of home laptop computing is not Windows, except for people that have to run Windows specific programs and can't do what they want online, or with an Android app. Quicken comes to mind. Even tax programs are now available online.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[that this is not und]

Does Libre Office run on a Chromebook? Can I p,ug in a USB drive to install additional local apps? Can wine run on my Chromwbook?

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[that this is not und]

If Minecraft was ported to Chromebook it would end the market of Windows laptops for kids. Oh, wait, Microsoft bought Mojang!

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[rfengr]

Roblox is more popular with the kids these days.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[SurenEnfiajyan]

Minecraft is available for Linux and the latest dev version of Chrome OS supports Linux apps via Crostini, though it's mostly for developers yet.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Alain Williams]

If these things succeed in being sold in volume - then yes, Crysis other games & programs will be ported to it. Corporations do things for the money, not the ideology. A port to Chromebook would make a port to other Linux easy, so we might see a flourishing of new stuff available on Linux. A Chromebook is ideal for many users, they 'consume' the web, generate little other than email/facebook/twitter/... posts -- thus they don't need something where typing is good.

Microsoft will try to kill it; offer incentives, eg: reduced/zero app store fee if they don't sell the Chromebook port.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[LinuxIsGarbage]

The distro included on the original Netbook, the Asus EeePC 701 / 4G, Xandros, was terrible. Replacing it with a Ubuntu derivative (or any other name brand distro) was preferable. The computer shipped with Linux, but half the manual talked about installing Windows XP, and the included DVD had Windows drivers. I think it was a move by Asus to try and get low cost XP licenses from Microsoft, rather than Microsoft trying to prevent the spread of Linux.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

Tablets and smartphones may have killed Windows netbooks but that was after Microsoft had killed Linux netbooks

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[LinuxIsGarbage]

School kids are growing up to become consumers that likely will prefer what they're used to using.

That's why I bought an Apple II when I graduated highschool 15 years ago, it's what I was used to using in elementary.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[that this is not und]

WTF? My questions have turned me into a Windows shill?

The days of strident little linux martinets extolling the true religion of linux over Micro$oft are over. This is about Google muscling in on Microsoft's game, if anything.

Grow up.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[that this is not und]

Mostly it would be about getting a full JVM running on the Chromebook. Which would open the platform to a lot of cool things.

A good question would be how fast Microsoft would start deprecating the java edition of Minecraft if it started to matter a lot.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[fluffernutter]

I've never found a distro of Linux that didn't cut the battery time to 1/3 on any laptop or netbook. That seemed to be a sticking point for many users. Don't know what the situation is now, this was back when my Asus Eee's still worked.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[that this is not und]

The ASR-33 I used in High School would have been affordable, but a hassle to keep running, 15 years ago. The HP minicomputer on the MERITS timesharing network would have been more of a challenge but probably attainable. Getting a good fresh source of enough yellow punched tape to save my programs and data onto would probably be the deal breaker.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[fluffernutter]

I can understand using it in a school, because all the basics are there. But your company must not have very heavy requirements for spreadsheets. Recently I had an occasion to take hundreds of files from hundreds of servers and transition them into a hundreds of columns spreadsheet. The thought of doing something like that with Google Docs (aside from the fact that it was all confidential data) makes my head hurt.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[fluffernutter]

How is Linux with battery capacity now? Windows (and I'm sure ChromeOS) users always used to have to take a huge hit to install Linux. The battery usage was so bad that I actually feared for the long term health of the battery.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[kenh]

Microsoft will try to kill it; offer incentives, eg: reduced/zero app store fee if they don't sell the Chromebook port.

With 95% desktop market share, MS isn't going to lose much sleep over $600 chromebooks - the threat isn't real, people who like chromebooks rely on Corp/school district IT departments to make the chrome os environment as useable as say a windows notebook - remove IT Department support and Chrome OS is less attractive to the average user than a Linux notebook/netbook, and at $600 you can get a very capable windows laptop from any major manufacturer (except Apple, which really starts at $1K).

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[GeXX]

And just how many times does windows call home to let them know what the user is doing? Privacy is dead. want privacy, run linux, even then, if one lives in society and does anything normal, then they are being tracked somehow.. Sadly a piece of tape over the camera won't make it go away.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

ChromeOS is Linux. And yes, battery life is great. It has always been a problem with hardware manufacturers providing optimized settings for their particular idiosyncrasies. They did this for Windows, and they're now doing it for ChromeOS. For plain Linux, you only got that, if you happened to have a model that the distribution actively supported. Otherwise, you'd get default settings. Things work fine, but power usage wasn't optimal

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[kenh]

Windows 10 licenses are currently free for devices that comply with certain hardware limitations (screen size, RAM).

Every student wants a MacBook, most wind up with a Windows laptop, and a few will likely settle for a chromebook, but at $600 there are a dozen alternative windows laptops sitting in the same aisle as these 'premium' chromebooks with prices lower than the chromebook and similar hardware specs.

When was the last time a kid said 'I prefer my chromebook to a windows or Mac laptop?' Do you think a faster processor, more ram, bigger screen will change their opinion if chromebooks?

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

My Pixelbook runs LibreOffice just fine. That might or might not have helped you. LibreOffice is awesome, but it still isn't bug-for-bug compatible with Microsoft. So, if you need that, you should work on Windows -- possibly using a virtual instance in the cloud. These days, I find that's more useful than having a local copy. But YMMV

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[tbuskey]

Microsoft came out with a revived XP for netbooks. In doing so, MS specified the maximum spec, limiting screen resolution (below 1024x768), RAM and CPU.

The problem for MS was that people found they didn't *need* Office and other MS software. They could do the the things they wanted with out it.

Later on, AJAX came out. More powerful computing devices that were not x86 (ARM smartphones) couldn't run Windows. MS couldn't do anything to affect those developments.

College students started having smart phones to do their photos, social networking and sometimes school work in a way that Palm, WinCE, Blackberry could not do. They found they did not need "a real computer" and that's the start of the decline of Windows.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

microsoft killed the linux netbook such as the eeepc. Android (Linux) tablets and phablets then killed the windows netbook.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Solandri]

No, OP is right. Netbooks were already on the way out by 2010, when tablets began showing up.

Netbooks leveraged two things. The cost of low-end laptop components had gotten so low that the most expensive items in the bill of materials was the CPU and the Windows license. The original Asus EEE PC 700 (2007) used a little-known Celeron M processor and Linux to minimize these two major cost items. When netbook sales began taking off, Intel and Microsoft moved to protect their duopoly. Intel kicked off the Atom processor line. Microsoft released special lower-cost versions of Windows for these low-end devices. And by 2008 netbooks were based on Atom and Windows.

I've been helping people buy laptops since since the 1990s Through the 1990s, the price for the low-end laptop market dropped steadily from about $1500 to about $700. Then it got stuck at the $500-$700 range for over a decade. Netbooks were the first laptop-like device to crack that price barrier ($300-$400 MSRP). It wasn't until last year, a decade after the first netbooks, that prices for low-end laptops finally moved below $500 MSRP. I'd say $400 is the new floor now.

There's some force at play here trying to keep the prices for low-end laptop above $400-$500. The Chromebooks I'm seeing are mostly priced at $100-$200, which is about where I'd expect low-end laptop prices to be today if they hadn't stalled at $500 in the late 2000s. The most likely candidates remain Intel (Atom processors are in the $30-$60 range, while ARM SoCs are as low as $5 for roughly the same number of transistors) and Microsoft (OEM Windows licenses are about $50-$70, though it's rumored that some larger brands are able to get volume licenses as low as $20). Add just those two up and you're already at the full price of a low-end Chromebook. Those two companies have the most to lose if people get used to the idea that a portable computer should only cost $100-$200.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[fluffernutter]

No, LibreOffice is fine for my case, but we were talking about Google Docs, not LibreOffice.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you talking about willis? The real minecraft and the only one that matters, runs on java and it can run on a chromebook just fine with java installed.

You forget that mojang under Markus Persson was very strongly anti microsoft. They intentionally made minecraft a multi platform program with peer to peer networking and gave away the server software so that the program was completely standalone and could function on any os. This is why after microsoft bought the company microsoft tried so hard to extinguish java minecraft and push their own version of it which is stuck behind a wall garden. But even when the day comes and microsoft abandons java minecraft people will still be able to run it because it does not depend on any servers and markus made sure it has zero drm.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

That sounds suspiciously similar to a database...

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[tepples]

Game consoles are for running vanilla versions of well-known games. They aren't for a developer's commercial debut or for enthusiast-maintained mods.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anne Thwacks]

If Microsoft's attempts at killing this are as successful as their attempts at software, then MS is toast!

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[tepples]

ChromeOS is Linux.

But not compatible with X11/Linux applications unless you A. buy one of the few Chromebook models that support Crostini, B. risk accidental powerwashing on every boot, or C. open the case and turn the screw, after which point good luck getting the power jack fixed under warranty.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

Every student in my school district uses a Chromebook.

The threat is real.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Riceballsan]

well if we are talking what normal people will use, it's about even. Win10 monitors the hell out of you, of course google does as well. linux is about the only privacy matters option.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be young. Netbooks and tablets werenâ(TM)t even in the same time frame.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[CaptainDork]

Agreed.

I'm 72 years old and saw Windows 3.0 (running in DOS) refresh the screen every time a user would step into another directory in File Manager.

I uninstalled that crapware and did not allow it to run the business.

Then, Windows 3.1 came out and fixed that and we were off and running.

I'm retired now and my impression is that Microsoft is damned well tired of Windows.

I think they want to get that albatross detached from the business model.

Windows 10 is very high maintenance for them and Office is, as well.

Both are long in the tooth and have reached the point of diminishing returns and competitors as in, Open Office, LibreOffice, Android, Chrome OS, and Apple are on the upswing with interesting innovations.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

Netbooks didn't die, they got bigger.

"Netbook fans" (for lack of a better term) wanted these tiny computers that could fit in the palm of a hand.

General consumers wanted cheap laptops.

Well, there are no 11-to-14 inch laptops in the $150-$250 range (depending on discounts and such). Those can meet the needs of some consumers.

From the prices I could find, a 7-inch Eee PC 701 4G retailed for $400. Well, for under $400, you can buy a an Acer Aspire with (i3, 15.6-inch 1080p, 6 gigs of RAM). It'll be an even better machine once quad-core i3s come out.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

You're clearly not in College.

#1) is MacBooks
#2) is Chromebooks
#3) (way back in the distance) is Windows laptops

It only takes 3-6 months on ChromeOS before people generally prefer it to Windows

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Wycliffe]

What surprises me is that this hasn't significantly affected cellphone prices. With laptops cheaper than cellphones you would think that would put downward pressure on cellphone prices and people would think twice before spending $500+ on a phone.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

It's gotten better. Linux finally did the Microsoft thing and ignores the ACPI tables for the "real" values. The battery life has gotten better as a result. In fact, I get better battery life with Linux now, but admittedly, some of that comes from tuning the "conservative" governor so the darn thing doesn't jump to 120% and sit there for a bit for almost every single action.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[slack_justyb]

Mostly it would be about getting a full JVM

Minecraft usually packs in a JVM. Since Jigsaw in Java 9 it's a lot easier to drop the pieces of the JVM that you don't need and then package a trimmer JVM into your executable. You just need a binary shim that loads the minimal JVM and then that JVM loads your program. So pretty much, if you are after a specific target, you don't need to get a full JVM implemented any more. That said, for the Chromebooks that support it, there's an Android Minecraft that can already be ran on Chromebooks with that whole Android on Chromebook thing that Google started a few years back.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[squiggleslash]

You know what stopped Netbooks?

Absolutely nothing. They still exist. You can get a decent, small, laptop, about the same size for under $200. They just don't call them "netbooks" any more.

Tablets didn't kill shit. Netbooks didn't go away, they redefined the base price and form factor of low end laptops.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[SurenEnfiajyan]

Android Minecraft that can already be ran on Chromebooks with that whole Android on Chromebook

Yeah, but it isn't designed for PCs or laptops and cannot be controlled by keyboard arrow keys (or WASD), you have to click the arrow buttons with the mouse, it really sucks. Besides that, some might want to pirate the full PC version.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[jon3k]

Netbooks were the 7-10" devices sold from about 2007-2012 or so. That's around the time smartphones and tablets were really taking off, and then a couple years later chromebooks came in. Then Microsoft was forced to respond to Chromebooks at that price point within the last few years so we have kind of a second coming of "netbooks".

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[jon3k]

When was the last time a kid said 'I prefer my chromebook to a windows or Mac laptop?'

I think most people who compare a $200-$300 Windows laptop to a Chromebook picks the Chromebook. I think you're really underestimating how popular Chromebooks are. Remember that those inexpensive Windows laptops are a response to the popularity of Chromebooks.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Rob Y.]

They gave it away, not because it was bad (it was, but that's beside the point). They did it to seed the market for their whole new Matro application platform - but it was already too late for that.

Most Windows users use it the same way they would use a Chromebook. And business users use it out of inertia or for some legacy win32 application they count on in some business process. The rest (gamers, content producers) are a blip in the universe of Windows desktop users. That's just the truth.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

It only takes 3-6 months on ChromeOS before people generally prefer it to Windows

Commonly known as Stockholm Syndrome.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Tough Love]

I expect Microsoft to eventually crack down hard on Chromebooks, just like they stopped Linux netbooks by licensing Windows XP cheaply to OEMS on netbooks.

That is not how Microsoft stopped Linux netbooks, at least that is not the main way. Microsoft's main tactic was to contractually bind OEMs to limit the power of Linux netbooks, while offering more powerful netbooks running Windows. Yes, blatantly illegal, but the DoJ had lost, or been stripped of, the will to prosecute by that time.

Now Microsoft seems to have lost control of the OEMs, at least to the extent that they can't stop them from designing and selling Chromebooks. Usually, Microsoft threatens to raise the price of a Windows license in order to keep an OEM in line. What happened this time?

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[jpaine619]

Really? Pretty sure I have quite a few modded games on my XBox One..

Welcome to 2018....

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

They gave Windows away because... Oh well, they didn't give it away. It's $199 for Windows 10 Pro.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

How is a Chromebook cheaper? $300 chromebook vs $300 laptop, $500 chromebook vs $500 laptop, etc.
Most seem to be PCs with a different keyboard (lower case, missing keys) and a different firmware. Also with 32GB eMMC instead of real SSD or 1TB HDD.

It's laptop vs laptop. Like Pepsi vs Coke. These aren't even different categories of computer.
It also runs a pile of legacy crap and bloat called the web.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[reanjr]

You can't really replace a phone with a laptop though. And few want to lug both, so the phone is sort of the primary device, so demands higher prices.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

Call it a NoSQL database and you're done.

Really. At least he knows how to use a spreadsheet (I don't)
Maybe it'd run in Google Docs, perhaps poorly but we throw gigabytes of RAM and trillions CPU cycles at these browsers, they might as well do something once in a while.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[fluffernutter]

Except you can't hand a non-developer a database file and expect them to know what to do with it. The point is to provide a report for non-technical users.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's say someone graduates highschool today. In Elementary school they possibly used Chrome, today they use Chrome.
In the time frame one may have gone from using Apple II to a Pentium PC with PCI bus or from 486 to dual core, nothing has changed for them. Scroll wheel mouse and LCD on their first computer, etc. Broadband, maybe even wifi. And possibly but not always, the exact same fucking software.
A decade ago I used Firefox and VLC, today I use Firefox and VLC, but I can afford a 16GB flash drive for dinner money. Wow!

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

1) I was buying and using $300 windows laptops years before ChromeOS was a thing.

2) Greenscreen dumb terminals were really popular once too. Just because they renamed the mainframe "The Cloud" and added more colors doesn't make it any better of an idea.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

People still have and are using Windows laptops/desktops. What's happening is that the hardware has become fast enough that they don't need to replace them as often.

A Core 2 Duo still runs perfectly for most users. If the computer isn't actively turned on 24/7, it should last more than a decade.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[reanjr]

During the netbooks era at least, Windows was free for small, low-powered devices.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

When was the last time a kid said 'I prefer my chromebook to a windows or Mac laptop?

...did you read the fucking summary?

Don't answer, it's rhetorical.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Billly Gates]

I think you mistyped NetworkComputers :-) ... the sun/netscape strategy to put JavaOS terminals everwhere.

The reason IE won was because it was a better browser if you can believe it. My opinion is not popular today on slashdot in 2018 but ask any old senior web developer? IE had less rendering bugs (if you can believe this too!!), CSS support, dynamic HTML aka Ajax, more stable, faster, and used less memory.

Without IE gmail would not be. To have web apps required ajax and or dynamic html which IE had.

Netscape grew too quickly and was frantic adding features rather than fixing bugs. NEtscape 5 and 6 were so bad that they were ignored for ancient Netscape 4.7.2. IE 5.5 and 6 were horrible too but sucked less.

Regardless times are different today. Chrome is no Netscape or IE and sets the standards ... properly! It is THEE browser of this decade no doubt as nothing can beat webkit and Google is moving with rapid acceleration to keep it from dying. MS can't keep up with Edge.

If MS were retarded enough to set standards the only people who would use it are dumb corporations. I bet most web developers learned their lessons after IE 6 not to base their manhours on one version of an ancient browser these days. There is nothing MS can do as even their ancient proprietary apps can be hosted on Citrix these days if they get too crazy.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

AJAX came out way before Netbook did. Come on! Don't be lame to look up.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Iwastheone]

Win 10 works, I have an adjunct Chromebook, though I'm really used to windows. V. Most people do simple things on the internet, so you nerds disregard. Chrome books work if you have internet. Unless you are more than an occasional user, stick with a Chromebook, just my take on this.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

"The locked down, highly secure Chrome OS machines require negligible maintenance while being largely immune to most extant malware." ...except what Google build in

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Jane Q. Public]

I envision the day when your phone is your primary computing device, and something like a tablet will really just be a portable screen that you cable to your phone. With Bluetooth-or-something-like-it keyboard and mouse.

I don't think that day is far off. With 2+ GHz Octacore processors, and on-board 4k video processors (already present in some phones), we're getting into desktop range. Right now.

So you'll just have an accessory kit you take with you to somewhere you want to do computing tasks, consisting of tablet-like screen, keyboard, and mouse. And probably a USB plug-in power supply, to supplement the batteries, if you're in for a long session.

My current Bluetooth trackpad lasts at least two weeks on a pair of rechargeable AAs, and my keyboard lasts a good month, also on a pair of rechargeable AAs.

The screen will need to carry its own sizeable battery, or have a compartment for external rechargeables. Which is the most versatile and durable solution... who wants to tear apart their monitor to replace Li-ion batteries? Allowing them to be replaceable, standard batteries allows for newer, better batteries to come on the market, and your hardware lasts longer, so it's better bang for the buck.

I like better bang for the buck.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Tough Love]

How is Linux with battery capacity now?

It's good. Obviously, Linux is getting good battery life on your phone. Intel hired a bunch of Linux kernel devs and got power management working fine on their desktop and laptop processors. Chromebook I can't vouch for... oddly enough, Google is most unhelpful about providing tech specs for hardware drivers. You need to check forums to see which Chromebooks are fully supported including power management and GPU.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[mcswell]

I've never tried to use a Chromebook (I use my computer for programming, so Chromebook is probably not what I need), but: I think the point of Chromebook is that most people don't _need_ a desktop, ergo they don't need Windows.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[LostMyBeaver]

Nope... a port to Chrome has very little impact on the cost of porting to Linux. It would still be the cost of an additional platform.

Most modern video games are written using Unreal or Unity and both of those systems support Linux as first class citizens and yet most publishers do not port to Linux. This is because there's just no value in it to them. It's not a mainstream user oriented operating system and it almost certainly wouldn't support the cost of 1-2 additional staff developers to produce the title.

Chrome related operating systems makes sense to companies, because it is a mainstream platform with user counts measured in the millions.

Of course, the reference to whether it will run Crysis is another issue. Crysis was always the joke because of the ridiculous system specification requirements to achieve even mediocre performance. I find it doubtful that Chromebook will ever target high end graphics processing requirements.

The main articles biggest problem was the question. "Is Chromebook threatening other Mac and Windows?" should have been the question.

Consider that the set of tools generally found on Chromebooks is far closer to Mac than to Windows. Windows is a substantially more diverse operating system than Mac and Chrome OS. Linux and Windows are far more similar in nature if you were to compare them side by side.

Consider that both Windows and Linux are well suited for power users and the foundations/companies supporting them are targeting non-casual users. Linux is certainly not user friendly. If for no other reason than you can't Google "How do I copy pictures from my phone to my desktop on Linux" and actually get a result of any meaning whatsoever. Windows is special in the sense that it's an operating system specifically designed from the very foundation upwards to support enterprise scale management. Consider that Windows has had all the features of a MDM (and much more) since Windows 2000 and even earlier.

Now Chrome OS and Mac OS are both very excellent solutions for mainstream users. In fact, I would consider a Chrome OS device for my living room even though I'm a religious Windows Subsystem for Linux zealot. I couldn't figure out how to brush my teeth in the morning unless I had Linux running on Windows to help me. And yet for a casual use laptop, I used to use Mac, but I think that Chrome OS is more attractive now.

It's really funny, in our house, since Apple removed the headphone jack from the telephone, we have only bought one new phone. The iPhone X. We bought the top model and it's sitting on the coffee table in the living room and no one is using it. We're all using iPhone 6S and 6S plus telephones with weakening batteries.

I also used to keep at least one current Mac around for coding iPhone apps, but to be honest, I kinda lost interest in that because Apple actually seems to really only want major developers on their platform and don't care about the little guy anymore.

Chrome OS is our replacement for Mac OS these days. After all, it's pretty much the exact same programs that you would typically use on a Mac. Everything on the platform is App priced instead of application priced. I mean honestly, you would never pay more than $5-$10 for a program on Chrome OS.

Will Chrome OS hurt Windows... sure it will. I think it's an amazing platform for anyone who considers synergy to be a great word.

Will Chrome OS hurt Mac OS.... yeh... considerably.

1) Kids that play video games on PC growing up but use Mac at school probably buy a PC when they get older.
2) Kids that play video games on Android tablets or iPads growing up but use Windows, Chrome or Mac at school will probably buy a Mac or a Chromebook
3) Kids that play video games on Android devices but use Windows or Chrome OS at school will almost certainly consider a Chromebook.

It has to do with what people associate with providing the greatest fashion or value. Apple is always the "Fashion Brand" but they don't provide any real value ove

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[rtb61]

When it comes to Chromebooks, the only thing I care about, is how quickly and easily they convert to a straight Linux distribution, I still lean to Kubuntu. So which ones take a Kubuntu usb stick and are working better ten minutes later with narry a googlite in sight. You would think they would offer any Chromebook with a an in house Linux distribution as an alternate with access to their foss library of applications. I wonder how much Google spends with manufacturers to get each chromebook out of the door. Smaller ones pay google and google pays larger manufacturers, probably pays them quite well for selling googles app store. Probably expect M$ to pay larger OEMs for force windows anal probe 10 on customers (I would have to pay more for windows 8.1 than anal probe 10, costs quite a bit more, more likely to keep an old win7 unit going, just for games).

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux netbooks were not stopped by Windows. They were stopped by Linux. Face it, if Linux had ever been a viable alternative, people would have bought the Linux netbooks and left the Windows ones on the shelves. Instead it happened the other way round. Linux is not and it will never be a desktop solution. Servers? Fine. Embedded systems? Fine. Hobby projects? Fine. But desktop? Never.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[TheFakeTimCook]

well if we are talking what normal people will use, it's about even. Win10 monitors the hell out of you, of course google does as well. linux is about the only privacy matters option.

And macOS/iOS. They have realized that Privacy is a marketable product distinction, and really are quite serious about it.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

they stopped Linux netbooks by licensing Windows XP cheaply to OEMS on netbooks.

I thought Linux stopped the Linux netbooks by bricking them after security updates... huh... who knew?

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

Those days, from a financial point of view, Netscape was mouse, google (and Amazon and Facebook) are 500 Lb Gorillas

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Interfacer]

"Imagine you have the world's most bloated operating system, supporting legacy APIs so old and iteratively patched and fixed that your code base has become pretty wretched."

You are conflating the Windows 'Distro' with the Windows OS kernel. The Windows kernel is pretty good and well designed.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

I expect Microsoft to eventually crack down hard on Chromebooks, just like they stopped Linux netbooks by licensing Windows XP cheaply to OEMS on netbooks.

That's where you're adding 1 + 3 and getting 2.
Google is a publicly traded company like Microsoft and not a foundation like Linux. Big shareholders can't control Linux but they can control Chrome. They worry much less about Chromebooks. These companies are part of a cartel.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[reanjr]

I thought it was coming, but the Canonical cancelled Ubuntu Touch and I gave up.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[vandamme]

PDP-8's can be had pretty reasonable nowadays, although the parts can be hard to get and the power consumption is ridiculous.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Shirley Marquez]

Microsoft is already giving away Windows for free or very cheaply on low-end computers, so the cost of it isn't an issue there. Chromebooks are winning in education despite the fact that they have little or no advantage in purchase price over a low end Windows laptop. They do have advantages in administration cost, and that's a big force that is driving sales.

There are multiple tiers of entry level devices; the highest level for notebook computers as of 2017 called for a "low-end CPU" (term not defined, but probably applies to anything less powerful than an i3), 4GB or less RAM, a screen size of 14.1" or less, and eMMC storage of 32GB or less. (Reference: https://www.cnx-software.com/2... ) Those requirements have ratcheted up a few times since Microsoft first started offering discounted Windows; it was 2GB RAM, 16GB eMMC, and 10.1" display at one time. All of the cheap Chromebooks sold to the education market qualify, as do Chromesticks and Chromeboxes.

That 32GB limit is REALLY limiting for Windows. Owners quickly discover that if they store more than about 5GB of their own stuff, the system no longer has enough free space to install new builds of Windows. (There are workarounds involving flash drives.) New builds come along about every six months so that's no small thing; Microsoft will probably have to raise the limit to 64GB, like their own low-end device (the Surface Go) has.

This new class of premium Chromebooks lies outside the parameters for cheap Windows licenses so the cost of Windows is a factor there. Many of them have mid-range CPUs and Microsoft will be forced to respond by allowing a larger range of systems to get cheap licenses for Windows, more than just allowing more storage. 8GB RAM, real SSDs with 128GB or more storage, and i5 processors are common for that class of system; some companies are even offering an option for an i7. So far they all use low power (U series) or very low power (Y series) processors; I don't think we'll be seeing a Chromebook with an H series process or its equivalent from AMD any time soon.

I suspect that the end point will come within five years (and that's a conservative guess): Microsoft will make ALL licenses for Windows Home free of charge. You will only pay for the Windows Professional and Enterprise features: domain logon, disk encryption, remote console capability, etc. They may also continue to charge for licenses for the very high end hardware that requires the Workstation edition: multiple CPUs, RAM above 256GB, etc.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Shirley Marquez]

Current Chromebooks would at best walk Crysis, as none of them have a discrete GPU. Not even Google's own super high end Pixelbook has an option for one. Chrome OS also doesn't supply drivers for serious 3D graphics, so even if you somehow attached a high end NVidia or AMD card the OS wouldn't do much with it.

But that's now. It could change in the future. Chrome OS is based on Linux, so the drivers exist and could be added to Chrome OS.

,

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Shirley Marquez]

Depends on the major. Computer science students, for example, aren't flocking to Chromebooks because they're pretty useless for software development unless you install a full Linux environment on them.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

I was able to obtain a Windows 10 pro ESD key for about 14 euros...

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

We're already living in the cloud. I'm typing this in a browser now. And if I want a modicum of privacy I go old school analog. I don't have an expectation of privacy on any digitally connected devices these days and treat them as such.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[SivDotnet]

I am 60 this year and like you have been around Windows since the earliest 386 versions that were really just a file manager and some test applications and this is the first year I have completely moved my main PC to Linux Mint and my server to ClearOS. I just can't stand what Windows has become. It really is a piece of spyware and an advertising platform and I suspect that contrary to what they said about Windows 10 always being free, it won't be long before you will have to start paying a subscription like they are doing with Microsoft 365 for business.

I am still working as a self employed IT Consultant and I have switched a good number of my clients over to Linux Mint or Ubuntu. I have only had 1 client who couldn't get on with Mint and reverted back to Windows and I put her onto Windows 7 to avoid the mess that is Windows 10.

I agree with the thrust of this post, I think not only Chrome but Linux may well start eating their Home User base. I really think Nadella is only interested in Azure and is quietly getting rid of the home user by forcing this crap on them so that they go away and stop pestering their support teams.

I heard something recently about the guys at Steam are starting to ramp up their systems to allow a lot of their game inventory to run on Linux so I suspect they are seeing the coming threat to their business and are getting ready for it.

Thanks God for Linus Torvalds and free software.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

Back in the 90s when Netscape was launched there was the talk that the browser could replace the OS. That's what caused Microsoft to push Internet Explorer so hard, to stop Netscape replacing their Windows Monopoly.

Of course, because you would just be trading one monopoly for another but have to pay for it twice, once for the actual operating system and then again for the Netscape application layer that sits atop it.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

We are all the property of Google/Alfabet/What-ever-the-hell-they-call-themselves-now, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook and the NSA at this point... We lost the fight for privacy years ago as well as the right to privacy. That priviledge is now reserved for top brass at this point.

We as citizens are just sheep, dumb-ass critters who are kept in line and must do what we are told, buy what we are told and live how we are told.

People, dumb ass people, have manically chanted that they have nothing to hide since 2001 and now....? now... nobody has anything to hide or any way to hide it...

Your IT gear? all of it likely backdoored at the hardware level, so no matter what... you are owned... router you say? also backdoored... everything is... and everything is likely monitored 24/7... You might even be under less surveilance in China than in the rest of the world... Sad really.. but we have crossed the point of no return ages ago... nobody would listen then... and now.. now it is waaaaaay to late to do anything...

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

I stayed away from Windows until Windows 2000. 9x and below were all just fancier graphical shells for DOS and not their own operating systems.

Re: Microsoft seen this threat before

[SivDotnet]

I worked in a Bank at that time in their back office project and we were just starting to develop back office software that would run on PCs as a prototype system, the ultimate solution was finally ported to Unisys B Series Unix boxes, so I went through DOS 3.x to Windows 3.1 and eventually all the way to Windows NT4 when the systems really started to become an alternative to the Unix kit.

I left the Bank in 1997 to go to an IT consultancy and we were XP/Vista/Windows 7 and 6 years layer in 2003 I went self employed and was quite happy with Windows 7 and Office 10. Ever since the Windows 8 debacle, it really has been a downhill slope since.

I am hopeful that the "Adult" team (coined by Paul Thurrott) who are now coding Windows, will listen to reason and produce a unified interface (decide is it Settings or Control Panel) and perhaps create a touch UI for this people who unlike me like poking around on their screens and a desktop mouse and keyboard UI with more precision for us who are the majority of Windows users who do productive work and need that precision.

Siv

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[Anonymous Coward]

The OS is nearly impossible to bugger up mainly because it's a bit on the restrictive side... That said, Chromebooks tend to have very good hardware for their price point and awesome battery life.
All this, coupled with GalliumOS (https://galliumos.org/) makes for a great machine.

Re:Microsoft seen this threat before

[MightyYar]

Different strokes for different folks... Gallium is great and something I'll load on decommissioned Chromebooks (if they survive) - but it's not for active kid duty, unless the kids get to the point where they are exploring the OS. If they want to bugger up their $150 computer in the name of learning I'm all for it. Not so much in the name of downloading a shady Minecraft skin.

Yes

[Anonymous Coward]

It has been for some time.

Where the hell have you been?

Re: Yes

[Anonymous Coward]

Thatâ(TM)s a lot of money to the average person.

Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[bogaboga]

And that's why Microsoft should be concerned.

These fellas are smoking something. Until Chrome OS can have "native" applications like Windows does, MS doesn't have to worry. Where is Chorome OS' equivalent of Microsoft office?

I have an answer for you: Nothing.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

Google docs

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[RossCWilliams]

I am a windows user and haven't used Office in years. I use OpenOffice or Google Docs when I need a word processor or spreadsheet or powerpoint. That said, in an office environment there are a lot of specific applications like accounting programs that are only available for windows and most offices only want to support a single operating system. So even if young people like Chrome when they head off to college, it is going to be a long time before they find it on their desktop at work.

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously, you've not used a new Chromebook lately. They can do a number of local installs. So yes, Microsoft is worried.

Why do you think Microsoft came out with a version of Windows 10 that only does Microsoft Store apps?

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Build6]

Agreed, even though the Office "lock in" has been weakened... it's still there. Given the choice between having continual compatibility worries with clients/customers, vs. just paying the MS tax... companies will just pay it.

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[info6568]

I think, if you ever used a Chromebook, that you are not playing with LInux native applications in Developer Mode.

Taking into consideration that it is Beta software and that some features (as sound) are not ready, they work very well. I have a Samsung Chromebook Plus machine and I see no difference between a full Linux machine and this Chromebook running the software. But some people will complain, that these programs are just Linux and not ChromeOS native applications as the Windows ones.

The main difference now is that the Web browser, in particular Chrome, grew to be an extremely powerful Graphical User Interface by itself, even capable of running games. What a Web Browser lacks, because never was the intention to have it, is heavy processing layers of functionality ... the Web Browser depend on servers to do the heavy things ... but, just a minute.

Linux it is wonderful running background functionality. Through all the Internet and in many of our appliances we have Linux based server software without a GUI doing very good work. And ... why not to mix them in the same machine? The heavy things running in the new LInux compartments and the Graphical stuff in the Browser? ... then, the Chromebook it is not a toy, it is really a better machine concept than a standard notebook where everything it is mixed producing all sort of troubles. It is a type of machine designed for the current state of affairs in computing and, in particular, security.

Whatever happens with ChromeOS and Windows, I think that the 1980s model to do things arrived to an end. It is not just practical. And when you see Microsoft investing so much in Azure, including Linux, you realize that they also noticed that.

I side note: They already run Android stuff in the Chromebook ... why to add the Linux part? The problem is that Android it is very limited compared with the full Linux functionality. Also, they are working the Fussia OS core .. what could they be thinking for the future? ... I don't think that Android be the answer for all the questions.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[chill]

No, that isn't correct. Many of the applications you describe are now server based with web interfaces, if not out right cloud based with web interfaces.

For the one or two legacy apps that aren't, they are accessed thru RDP or Citrix.

In my office of 200, with 160 of those not in IT, we're finishing a transition to Chromebook or iPad for everyone. The pulpit were very well and this is much easier to support.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

What is the name of your company so I can mercifully avoid working at this shit hole?

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

Where is Chorome OS' equivalent of Microsoft office?

it's google docs (and mail and calendar etc) and it's ONLINE.. which is its biggest drawback for corporate users.. the limited feature set is less-so, because most users only use basic functions and could be at least as productive using that over microsoft office. while those power users that need revisions and tables of contents and pivot tables will be buying^H^H^H^H^H^Hrenting microsoft office regardless of how good or feature-complete google's (or anyone else's) online features and services are..

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hardly the equivalent bogaboga asked for.

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

Where is Chorome OS' equivalent of Microsoft office?

Right here: https://www.google.com/docs

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's way more than good enough for most uses, even business uses, and it has overwhelming advantages in maintenance, security, multi-editing, and access from any device, anywhere.

Sorry, but office apps are moving to the web faster than Microsoft can do anything about that. Native apps aren't needed for this any more.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Knuckles]

It's way more than good enough for most uses, even business uses, and it has overwhelming advantages in maintenance, security, multi-editing, and access from any device, anywhere.

Sorry, but office apps are moving to the web faster than Microsoft can do anything about that. Native apps aren't needed for this any more.

There's not a single large business in the world using Office without powerful .NET/COM add-ins to automate/customize it.

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever heard of Google apps?
The problem isn't that they don't have an office-equivalent, it's that that's the ONLY thing on ChromeOS.
There's a reason that MS still sells like 300m copies of windows every year, and it's not because it's the best way to do web apps.
Google sees a world where everything is done online, and they may one day come to pass, but today is not that day. Web apps will continue to blow monkey pole because web browsers suck horribly at anything other than consuming media.

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Ol Olsoc]

And that's why Microsoft should be concerned.

These fellas are smoking something. Until Chrome OS can have "native" applications like Windows does, MS doesn't have to worry. Where is Chorome OS' equivalent of Microsoft office?

I have an answer for you: Nothing.

Oh yeah, this old chestnut. So does a computer not work unless it has Microsoft Office on it? I haven't used Microsoft office since the went to the ribbon interface, and before my Chromebook met it's end via 22 oz of hot coffee, I used Google Docs On My Macs and Windows machines I use Apache Office.

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[tepples]

I think, if you ever used a Chromebook, that you are not playing with LInux native applications in Developer Mode.

For some, this is because developer mode is too easy to accidentally powerwash unless you're willing to risk voiding what's left of your hardware warranty by turning the firmware write-protect screw. They're waiting for the majority of Chromebooks in use to support Crostini, a container to run GNU/Linux native applications within verified Chrome OS.

And ... why not to mix them in the same machine? The heavy things running in the new LInux compartments and the Graphical stuff in the Browser?

Because many Chromebooks still in use have a kernel older than Linux 3.15. Crostini's container technology reportedly requires a kernel-level containment feature that wasn't rolled out to all file systems until then.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[that this is not und]

You had to prepend 'shitty' a few times there, out of fear. Don't let your fear cloud your judgement.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[that this is not und]

Where the word 'shit' or 'shitty' appears, there is deep fear of change.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

What about small businesses? They far outnumber the large ones..

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Air-conditioned cowh]

"Where is Chorome OS' equivalent of Microsoft office? "

A huge, bloated, monster of an application that has entered it's dying-star phase of feature-supernova.

The only reason I ever use it over the lighter, faster, easier-to-use Google Docs or Libreoffice is because other people seem hopelessly addicted to it and its the only way to ensure stuff I produce will render correctly when they see it.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't edit work documents in libreoffice as the layout is completely destroyed....:-(

Read only. Edit: I move to a virtual Windows.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Knuckles]

What about small businesses? They far outnumber the large ones..

Well, you wrote "most uses", not sure if that's correct when it not applies to larger businesses. Anyway, many smaller business also use add-ins, and Google Docs does not solve many of the things these add-ins exist for.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

You just described Office 365 except it also has big boy stuff needed for real businesses. So tell me again why having just a part of that makes it better?

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

Lol ok. Hey my business is run 100% on public unauthenticated wikis? Does that sound like shit? You are just afraid of change.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

The chrome equivalent of Office is: Office!

Chromebooks run Android apps.

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

So ...apparently you haven't opened up an outlook account lately. Its all web-based now, including MS office.

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[LinuxIsGarbage]

Companies are outsourcing their email hosting, to either Google's G Suite, or Microsoft's O365. If you're paying MS to host your email, you might as well use their office suite.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[skeib]

You know someone is a ms enthusiast when they think that more functionality is a good thing in itself.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[that this is not und]

This topic really does get you upset. Work on not letting your fear force a reversion into scat. It would improve the quality ofvyour arguement.

The subject matter hasn't degenerated to conducting business on sketchy little wikis, btw. That's apparently just your projection.

What ever sort of little Microsoft Valued Partner logo, you are allowed to display on your business vcards, don't fret so much. There are still people in wingtips working for IBM. Your livelihood isn't threatened. Much. Yet.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[that this is not und]

Is there really a firmware write protect screw now? That might cinch it for some of us who don't consider a piece of hardware broken in and usable until the warranty is voided. (A lot of us here are nerds, who know that the only thing repair depot twits hold over us is arcana that hasn't yet been revealed.)

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[that this is not und]

In a lot of modern businesses, they actively seek to scrub out and remove 'power users' and their arcane non-documented work methods. If a work process isn't documented and under revision control it needs to be removed. The layers of barnacled 'legacy' that Microsoft counts on their 'power users' retaining in muscle memory can and will be scrubbed out by the ISO-9000 auditors.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[GeXX]

Big boy stuff? lol like what? 90% of people use it for lists, then there is 10% of users that use it as a front end to avoid learning how to make a real program to do the job right, then cross compatibility with other devices. usually dies once they leave the office, unless using rdp, but even then still sucks unless they have a solid internet connection, and ends up being 5-7 steps to login to the network from there, which is great for network admins and more advanced users, but for most it becomes too complicated and they end up just bringing paper with them, and if that doesn't kill the functionality of excel or word, the next update will.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[that this is not und]

It will render perfectly as a PDF with the bonus that they won't be able to mess with it. Their revisions will come back as change requests, not an additional hidden layer of formatting ready to explode into a mess because they used a slightly different version of Misrosoft's binary to revise it themselves.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Pikoro]

See, the cloud sucks ;)

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[GeXX]

Going the google way has given my company a advantage that others do not have, and has helped with growth beyond what any of us expected, my construction workers can use the stuff easily, if they trash it, it isn't 3 hours of re-setup, and their kids can't install all their crap on them. Simple, and easy, now to the point that the guy that can push the power switch, has more information available to them than the builders that are using the m$ solutions which end up being way more complex than turn on and search.

Using the right tool for the job, and not the tool that everyone else uses out of old habits, can be a good thing.

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[GeXX]

Gsuite has pivot tables, and works the same on any computer, so if someone wants to work at home, they install chrome, sign in and are on. Microsoft, bit more complex, and does not change if they have a mac or windows, and works the same, unlike office, where macros usually do not work on mac, and also excel is not multi-threaded on macos, so it is slower, then if one opens the file on a iphone or android, then there is a good chance it will screw it up, plus end up using a lot more data, plus with google once I kill the account they lose access to the data, office with one drive, usually keeps a copy on the computer, heck even with drive file stream (which is something m$ should have done first) it doesn't make a copy that can be access without the login for a period of time, which helps with data control

Feature parity is also different, so the desktop of 2016 supports different stuff than 2013, or 2010, or the web, or mobile.. Just across the board not sure what will work or what won't work.. At least with google I know it will work the same no matter what they are on.

So the biggest drawback for corporate users is really just learning how to do something a little differently, which is usually the biggest challenge.

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[MeNeXT]

Apart from business who locked themselves in with macros, the answer is nobody. It's never been a problem. Why is this even insightful.

I've seen more issues with MS Office compatibility with itself than anything else.

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[shess]

And that's why Microsoft should be concerned.

These fellas are smoking something. Until Chrome OS can have "native" applications like Windows does, MS doesn't have to worry. Where is Chorome OS' equivalent of Microsoft office?

I have an answer for you: Nothing.

What is Microsoft Office, some sort of teleconferencing system? You can do teleconferencing on Chromebooks, no problem.

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[dissy]

These fellas are smoking something. Until Chrome OS can have "native" applications like Windows does, MS doesn't have to worry. Where is Chorome OS' equivalent of Microsoft office?
I have an answer for you: Nothing.

And your answer is wrong.

The equivalent of Microsoft office is built into the OS and runs locally.

Then there is the REAL Microsoft office that runs on it too, just as it does on Windows, which is right here: https://www.office365.com/

Then there is LibreOffice if you don't mind that route, which installs and runs local on the Chromebook exactly like it does on Windows.

That's one two three times you are flat out wrong.

You should also be educated on the fact "until" implies future tense, yet as chrome os has had native local apps from the start 7 years ago.

Do you even know what "local storage" is or means? Do you have a single piece of proof that SSDs are not local storage like you claim? Do you think hard drives don't exist either, or that USB sticks can't be used to give someone else files by hand when you don't have a network around?

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

Do Office 365 and Adobe Creative Cloud run on Chrome OS?

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

ChromeOS runs both Android and Linux apps natively. It runs Windows in Wine, and I believe some games have started looking into that. It also runs any app that can be compiled to WebAssembly. It can locally install programs such as Google Docs. What more do you want?

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[loonycyborg]

The main difference now is that the Web browser, in particular Chrome, grew to be an extremely powerful Graphical User Interface by itself, even capable of running games.

Chrome is spiritual successor to EMACS.

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, the Android version of Office runs just fine on a Chromebook. It's not as full-featured, but unless you're a niche or power user, you're not going to notice.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

They probably wouldnâ(TM)t offer you a job as a cleaner. So, no worries.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

If your business use of an office suite is writing mommy and daddy about how well your lemonade stand is doing, then yes, Google docs is good enough.

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Anonymous Coward]

Where is Chorome OS' equivalent of Microsoft office?

Um, you can use Office on a Chromebook. Don't know why you would, but you can.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[reanjr]

The fact that MS lets you embed code into a Word document is the reason no company I have worked for wants to use Office or have any use for it.

Small companies look at that shit and hold their noses in disgust at the level of vendor lockin and necessary support to manage something like that.

The TCO of Office includes the cost of an IT expert who can navigate the inexplicably complicated mess of security, collaboration, licensing, etc MS has embedded into it. It's laughably not worth it for any company without a moderately sized tech department.

Going online to Office 365 just glaringly demonstrates that Google Docs - for most - is a comparable alternative.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[reanjr]

Seriously. All that crap is why no one I know wants to use Office, and only a few are left who are forced to do so by some aging Fortune 500 company.

Re:Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Billly Gates]

EMacs is a great OS. It just comes with a shitty text editor

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Knuckles]

.-NET/COM add-ins don't embed code. VBA macros don't have to
And it's a bit funny to complain about embedded macro code and then go do Google and let them run whatever they want in your browser.
You are correct about the TCO. But I'd like to see numbers for it being an alternative "for most".

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[reanjr]

I don't have numbers, but the last three startups I've worked at had no sign of Office outside of Excel for the CFO. I never hear about anyone ever having any issue with collaboration with outside companies.

Office has no features people want. It only has features they can sell to decision makers.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[Knuckles]

I don't have numbers, but the last three startups I've worked at had no sign of Office outside of Excel for the CFO. I never hear about anyone ever having any issue with collaboration with outside companies.

Office has no features people want. It only has features they can sell to decision makers.

Key word: startups. I'm not saying those users don't exist or that Google Docs isn't a good solution for many, but if you have doubts about Office as a platform I suggest you take a look at the add-ins that exist for Office because people want their features (and not the crappy javascript stuff in the Office store that can't do shit, but the sophisticated .NET/COM ones), and how Google at least currently can't do the things these add-ins let you do.

Re: Microsoft worry? Not in my world...

[tehcyder]

the last three startups I've worked at

I know it's hard to believe, but most people don't work at startups.

2019: the year of the linux desktop

[It's the tripnaut!]

Behold, our time has come!

Re:2019: the year of the linux desktop

[Harold Halloway]

Again?

Re:2019: the year of the linux desktop

[SurenEnfiajyan]

Maybe Chrome OS but not Linux. Chrome OS (also Android) kernel is really irrelevant, especially considering Google's plans of ditching it in favor of Fuchsia / Zircon.

ChromeOS is Web Appliance software

[dontbgay]

The walled garden gets a little tight after awhile. Most users won't mind being confined to such a small space though. I've helped my nephew install Linux on his Chromebook. My wife stopped using hers since it does nothing in the way of actually getting work done.

If they can use Playstore apps then they are.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a set of android apps that make Windows unnecessary except for programming. I have a set of Linux apps that make Windows unnecessary, if a bit inconvenient at times. A mix of these makes Windows irrelevant, subscriber model or buyer model.

In fact, I haven't used Windows in 7 years without loss of income or productivity.

So... Good riddance.

The Microsoft Ecosystem Is A Dead End

[StevenSheeves]

Hard to believe anyone can be surprised by this news.

I am the 'computer guy' to a large number of friends, family members, and neighbors. Over the past few years every single person I've helped with their computer problems has used their Microsoft computer for nothing more than email, webbrowsing, pictures, and movies. They used their computers less and less each year with more and more of the tasks listed above on their cellphones.

Long gone are the days when almost every person needed to have Internet Explorer to do any sort of online banking. Any consumer company in 2018 is making sure that their services and content is a first class experience on Android and iOS.

Exacerbating many of the people I help is that not only do they have no use of Windows apps their Windows systems get trashed by viruses or spyware or other random problems while their cellphones just work.

All of these people would be better served by a Chromebook or something similar but almost none of them are aware of what they are. The demand would be even greater if these people understood that all of the problems they constantly are coming to me with are exactly what the Chromebook was designed to solve.

Re:The Microsoft Ecosystem Is A Dead End

[gtall]

"Exacerbating many of the people"...errrmmm...people are become worse as problems?

Re: The Microsoft Ecosystem Is A Dead End

[Anonymous Coward]

cool story bro. All my friends run gaming PC's with nvidia or amd graphics cards. Where's the ChromeOS threat to them? Laughable.

Re: The Microsoft Ecosystem Is A Dead End

[that this is not und]

The threat to that comes from powerful gaming consoles.

It's a split thing. None of your gaming bros care if their min-maxing is done in an MS Office or a Google Docs spreadsheet. If they min-max collaboratively, its in shared spreadsheets on Google Docs.

Re: The Microsoft Ecosystem Is A Dead End

[Anonymous Coward]

What powerful gaming consoles? Consoles are weak.

Re: The Microsoft Ecosystem Is A Dead End

[Anonymous Coward]

Steam has a product that makes windows games run on Linux

Re: The Microsoft Ecosystem Is A Dead End

[Anonymous Coward]

So basically stop everything you do and flip it over on its head and you will like chromeos. No thanks

Re: The Microsoft Ecosystem Is A Dead End

[that this is not und]

Your 'rig' is safe. There are still boomers out there scattering Harley parts all over the road. Your lifestyle choice for gaming is safe. It's probably not the future of mainstream gaming, tho.

Re: The Microsoft Ecosystem Is A Dead End

[that this is not und]

That's irrelevant to gamers whose main leaderboard is an unofficial FPS ranking.

Re:The Microsoft Ecosystem Is A Dead End

[tbuskey]

Why aren't you steering them to chromebooks so they don't need support from you?

I'm a heavy user of multiple xterms on a linux laptop at home. I have android tablets and phones and a chromebook with android apps.
If I could get X11 (not VNC) on my chromebook, I'd get a new laptop to replace the Linux laptop.

Re:The Microsoft Ecosystem Is A Dead End

[shess]

Hard to believe anyone can be surprised by this news.

I am the 'computer guy' to a large number of friends, family members, and neighbors. Over the past few years every single person I've helped with their computer problems has used their Microsoft computer for nothing more than email, webbrowsing, pictures, and movies. They used their computers less and less each year with more and more of the tasks listed above on their cellphones.

It makes more sense if you think of a Chromebook as an alternative to a phone, rather than a cut-rate laptop or desktop. It's _way_ easier to multi-task on a Chromebook than on a phone or tablet (OMG, don't even), and for many people that's kind of the end of the story. The billions of users on the Internet are not just like the millions of users in the 90's, scaled up, their needs are different.

I was going to make a lame car/truck analogy, then I realized it wasn't that lame. Not everyone needs a big-ass pickup truck for hauling, some people only need a sub-compact ... and some people will go buy the big-ass pickup truck even if they don't need it for virtue-signalling reasons. In fact, once these things get relatively cheap enough, a fair number of people will just buy both options.

Re:The Microsoft Ecosystem Is A Dead End

[StevenSheeves]

> Why aren't you steering them to chromebooks so they don't need support from you?

I do.

But what I find is the people with Windows machines end up just using their cellphones for everything instead of bothering to learn about the unknown that is a Chromebook. So their old Windows computers end up just sitting there unused.

Re:The Microsoft Ecosystem Is A Dead End

[AbRASiON]

Yep me too, the "computer guy" and the amount of calls I've had for "please build me a new PC" or "please fix my PC" has dropped incredibly so.

People are more than happy with an iPad / MacBook / Phone or heck even just buying their own Windows 10 laptop somewhere which /generally/ seems to 'just work'

It's actually kinda crappy, because I used to be able to wrangle myself a free / heavily discounted PC upgrade out of it every 9 - 24 months at most. It's getting longer and longer now.

Just watching youtube, netflix, browsing is very very easy now. Microsoft is going away in the home space, slowly. Times are a changing.

Threat to *Android*???

[Anonymous Coward]

Surely the addition of Android to ChromeOS makes Chromebooks a threat to *Android*?? Android users must be flocking to buy ChromeBooks, splashing out $600 where previously they wouldn't spent $200 on these Chromebooks, because of their quality materials and Android support???? No?

There are 1.2 billion tablet users in the world, and the number of Android devices sold are in the billions. You can't even get accurate numbers for Chromebooks sold. The last estimate was 22 million total up to 2016.

Honestly, a Lenovo salesman talking up a product he's trying to sell is unconvincing, I'm guessing Lenovo want Chromebooks as leverage in negotiating fees for Windows. I doubt they expect to sell many $600 premium devices if the $200 ones didn't sell in volume.

Re: Threat to *Android*???

[Anonymous Coward]

People have work to do. They donâ(TM)t care about this stuff. These are words and numbers on paper. They mean nothing

Re: Threat to *Android*???

[Anonymous Coward]

It isn't selling in volume, and it won't sell at 3x the price no matter how premium the plastics are. Lenovo salesman is simply pitching an angle.

Android running a browser running Cloud apps, is cheaper and better than ChromeOS running its browser running cloud apps.
Android runs Android apps better than ChromeOS running an Android box running Android Apps.

The numbers indicate the failure from bad choices made inside Googleplex.

Yes.

[Qbertino]

Windows: Pay to get observed.
Chrome OS: Get observed but get something for it. For free.

Disclaimer: I'm typing this on a Chromebook. That is basically unheard of here in Europe, especially in Germany. I wanted to test having big brother observe me all time every time at all I do to the fullest extent and see what the trade-in for that is. Since I exclusively do web development and have all my everyday stuff in the web and mostly with Google anyway the benefit is palpable. Linux is a close second, but mostly because the disto landscape is a mess and you can't get a neat ARM laptop for 450 Euros that runs 10 hours on one charge and boots in less than 10 seconds and has everything pre-installed. Everything meaning also my entire setup and history with Google. (I'm using an Acer R13 Chrombook, it has replaced my 2011 MB Air).

It's not all disadvantages that Google watches over you is my point. Right now the Google ecosystem is what I recommend to anyone who knows nothing about computers and has little or no budget. My other Chromebook costed 120 Euros and the new 11" ones from Dell come 199 Euros a pop. New and without firesale.

Add in that a n00b using big brother doesn't have to think for a second how he will get his pictures from his phone on to his laptop or the printer and wether his stuff is lost if his notebook shatters and you easyly understand why we all happyliy carry our high-end televisor around with us and even love it.

Google is your friend.
Google watches over you.
Everybody loves Google.
Trust Google.

Googles model is that of the future and MS and others are going to have long-term problems competing with that unless they somehow manage to establish a solid "Cloud brand" with their presence. Which I don't really see happing. Windows only still has some traction because office people do wee-wee in their panties if they don't get their outlook, and MS office. Other than that Google owns, by convenience and by price, many times over.

That's my impression anyway. Many an expert in my field that I know are actually using Chromebooks and enjoy the enablement that comes with going all-out cloud, surveillance be damned.

So, yes, Chrome OS is a threat to Windows. And a big one.

My 2 eurocents.

Re:Yes.

[DogDude]

A. Microsoft and Google don't track you in the same way. Not even close. Google literally archives and analyzes your emails and documents. Microsoft keeps track of how you're using Windows, not the contents.

B. Windows is used for a lot of things other than Office and Outlook.

B1. There's no good replacement for Outlook.

If all you're doing is Face/Gram/Tweeting, and you don't care about some Global MegaCorp reading everything you do online, then yes, just stay with a Chromebook.

Re:Yes.

[kzwork]

Microsoft keeps track of how you're using Windows, not the contents.

How do you know that?!

B1. There's no good replacement for Outlook.

Yes, Outlook via Citrix works even on Chromebooks, cellphones and tablets (probably on smart watches too).

Re:Yes.

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no good replacement for Outlook lol? Even lotus notes was better than Outlook. Gmail for business. Outlook is the worst email app ever written. They still don't even have a working email search.

Re:Yes.

[Anonymous Coward]

except that yesterday, when I went to enable dictation in Word 2016 on Win 10, the only way I could have it would have been to give permission to Microsoft to analyze my documents. No fine-grained choice there, just a scary yes or no.

Re:Yes.

[Anonymous Coward]

That happens with some dictators. Once in a while you're summoned to the voting booths and asked whether you like your dictator, yes or no.

Re:Yes.

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you know that?!

Most of the permissions seem to be for Metro store apps, or things like stylus writing recognition. Although I'll set everything to "off" by precaution and even if it's possible the checkboxes are lying, I'm not overly scared yet.
I don't think they know even my e-mail address.

Re:Yes.

[Anonymous Coward]

> A: ... Microsoft keeps track of how you're using Windows, not the contents.

Really ? And you know this how ? Have you seen the source code ?

Nobody outside MS knows exactly what data is collected for all we know it's exactly what Google collects and then some.

No thanks. I'm not using anything that spies on me.

Year of the linux desktop all over again

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, an OS that doesn't support basically anything that people use laptops for will totally replace windows.

Re: Year of the linux desktop all over again

[that this is not und]

I know what my wife uses her laptop for. 95% of it she could do on a Chromebook. The killer right now would be Java Minecraft. Microsoft owns Mojang, though, and I suspect there will never be a Minrcraft port to the Chromebook. That's specifically a good reason for Microsoft taking over Mojang.

Not due to students

[Anonymous Coward]

The move for these higher end Chromebooks is not due to Chromebooks in schools. As you describe, Chromebooks are
just good laptops. A growing number of security pros use Chromebooks...I had thought it was just me.

The old tales about why Chromebooks were bad are a hard sell nowadays, when people actually experience them and
see the time advantage of not having to spend time doing maintenance and removing malware.

Sun got so many things right

[Build6]

"The Network Is The Computer"

everything old is new again

Cloud, network computing, "dumb" terminals... it's like how there's a push towards game streaming as well. If the network bandwidth and latency gets good enough, you don't actually need to have a GTX1080 class GPU in your machine... computing history just seems to oscillate between local computing power vs. "do it on the mainframe and use a terminal"

Re:Sun got so many things right

[Anonymous Coward]

"The Network Is The Computer"

everything old is new again

Cloud, network computing, "dumb" terminals... it's like how there's a push towards game streaming as well. If the network bandwidth and latency gets good enough, you don't actually need to have a GTX1080 class GPU in your machine... computing history just seems to oscillate between local computing power vs. "do it on the mainframe and use a terminal"

Except that as a consumer they offered you nothing.

Nothing.

Maybe they should have tried selling something to the masses and they wouldn't be so dead.

Re: Sun got so many things right

[that this is not und]

The required bandwidth wasn't there back then.

What it offers consumers is a maintenance free platform that invisibly updates.

Re:Sun got so many things right

[dissy]

Except those dumb terminals were just that, dumb terminals. They wouldn't work at all if the network wasn't available.

We're talking about Chromebooks here though.

Obviously a Chromebook can't load a webpage or access my google drive if it's offline, but it's identical to how Windows can't access a webpage or OneDrive if it's offline.

You can only run local applications and use local storage while not on the Internet.

It's not the same thing as a dumb terminal at all.

Re:Sun got so many things right

[Anonymous Coward]

In my experience, GPUs are a lot more reliable than networks.

Re: Sun got so many things right

[Anonymous Coward]

> What it offers consumers is a maintenance free platform that invisibly updates.

Invisbly breaks or has features invisbly removed more like.

Get them young...

[Anonymous Coward]

It should not come as a surprise that exposure to something early in live creates sustained interest and commitment.
That was already known in ancient times. It is a cornerstone of all religions and pretty much any other type of world-view as well. Computer companies know this too, it is the reason why companies like Apple and Microsoft have ridiculously huge discounts for educational institutions and students.

$600 Chromebook $500 android/iPad/Surface Tablet

[bobstreo]

but the $600 Chromebook $300 laptop (even one running windows) in terms of functionality, storage, available applications... The $300 laptop may be a bit thicker.

Now if you toss linux on the $300 laptop, it gets much better...

The bigest enemi of Windows is Microsoft.

[Anonymous Coward]

The biggest threat is Windows itself. No longer a professional OS it will lose the SCADA segment totally in a few years unless they do something drastic. Then the main OS market will follow. They are not as dependent ob a stable OS platform as SCADA but they will grow tired of having to pay for the same software over and over... and being interrupted while working because the OS knows better than you what you want. Office might still survive a rental boy but the OS will become even more of a toy marketed at teens than it is today. BOB never died!

Re:The bigest enemi of Windows is Microsoft.

[Anonymous Coward]

I did learn the existence of Windows IoT Enterprise :
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot-core/windows-iot-enterprise

which is a roundabout way to call an ordinary desktop Windows.
yes they say it's the same as Windows 10 Enterprise but can be bundled with your medical or industrial device.
Teens? They've been raised on all that terrorism nonsense and Android, Failbook etc. already tell them "Accept or die"
Young adults ditto arguably. I suppose older fucks forget their MS-DOS days, then their Windows 95 days. It all just disappears unless you maintain a computer museum or use VMs (annoying, no features, no 3D acceleration)
It's not like movies, music, cars, house, glassware. Computers disappear over time, shortly. Even if they don't they become relatively useless. You can buy 1880s furniture, 1920s glassware, though all old and dusty they'll still work the same today. You can get candles, oil or 2700K LED bulbs for your antique lights in any random store. Not so much with computers. E.g. some guy had some old small Samsung Android 2 phone, completely unusable because Google Play Services was using 80% RAM. (You can kill it but it may come back, it's unclear to me how you get rid of it)

The only thing they have to do is sit on their ass then they get people to use Windows 10, by attrition.

You can pry my computer from my cold dead hands

[Anonymous Coward]

While it's great for schools etc, the idea of counting on a chrome book when Linux and the BSD's are available doesn't appeal at all to me.

I love using this Linux desktop every single day. I've used Linux as my primary OS for years. I also have Windows machines and have owned Macs in the past too, but this Linux machine is the best by far. Not because of the specs, it's because there's so much software available, so many programming languages, it's so customizable. The same can be said for the various BSD's too.

If I want to sync my files to the cloud, I can and nobody controls how it is done other than me and the service I choose to sync to.

Would I consider a chromebook for kids, sure. But I can guarantee you even as a kid, I'd have found out how to get real access to the machine so I could run my stuff!

Pressure from two directions

[uffe_nordholm]

I don't think Microsoft is worried about only cheap computers: they ought to be worried about the very highest of high-end computers as well. According to top500.org the 500 fastest computers in the world all run Linux. The reason for this to worry Microsoft is that what today is a monster computer might very well, in 20-40 years be sitting in some office, being used for more ordinary tasks, like keeping track of the company payroll.

So Microsoft are under pressure from two directions: the very cheapest computers and the most expensive computers. Both of these fields have the potential to grow into neighbouring market segments, replacing whatever OS-maker held that segment earlier.

Re:Pressure from two directions

[xack]

There are few areas where there is no Chromebook equivalents yet. Larger 17 inch laptops don't have a Chromebook option and of course higher end desktop PCs and workstations. If Google filled those gaps than Microsoft will face more trouble.

Re: Pressure from two directions

[Anonymous Coward]

nonesense, the pc gaming segment of the market is alone enough for MS to not break a sweat

Re: Pressure from two directions

[that this is not und]

Another term for PC Gaming is the open hackable part of the XBox platform. Even Microsoft acknowledges that convergence.

Keep in mind

[dnaumov]

This is mostly a US phenomena. Outside of US, most education institutions donâ(TM)t even know what a Chromebook is. In my country, I am yet to see my first Chromebook outside of ads, in an actual real environment.

Re:Keep in mind

[Anonymous Coward]

The entire internet was once just a US phenomena, too.

Chromebook sales are growing 38% year over year, and that is expected to continue. There is HUGE momentum. If you haven't seen them yet, you will.

Re:Keep in mind

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm in the US and I've only seen one chrombook, at a casual restaurant (Panera), and the owner was visibly upset with it (or perhaps something on it). Everybody else in the restaurant had iphones because taking pictures of your food is apparently a thing.

Re:Keep in mind

[LynnwoodRooster]

My guess is that most of those chromebook purchases are going towards replacing a tablet. The user wants something lightweight (like a tablet - light physically and in terms of horsepower), but with a usable screen size and keyboard. I doubt many are replacing laptops (which are plentiful at the $600 price point) with chromebooks...

Re: Keep in mind

[dnaumov]

Chromebook to me looks like an option for somebody who is balking at paying the price of iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard. But is there anything a Chromebook is objectively better at besides price? And I mean for the average user (so donâ(TM)t start going on about running Linux on it).

Re: Keep in mind

[LynnwoodRooster]

Not that I know of... Especially when you compare them against what you can get from Dell, HP, and even Lenovo for under $500. A $600 Chromebook seems like a really big stretch...

Re:Keep in mind

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm in Canada--more specifically, Ottawa, which at one point in time was called Silicon Valley North. I'm a software developer and I'd say I have pretty good expose to the technology sector.

That said, I've *never* seen a Chromebook out in the wild. I've seen them at Best Buy. And nowhere else.

Devuan Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

That is all.

In Education-Yes. Magic 8 Ball Says Future Cloudy.

[mykepredko]

I would definitely expect ChromeOS to displace Windows in the K-12 Education market (if they haven't already, I haven't looked at the latest numbers).

Where will things be in 10 years as these students go to college? I would be surprised if ChromeOS made significant gains in CompSci simply because it is pretty limited for teaching. As other people have noted, it really needs some native app development capability and I don't see that happening in sub $200 machines. Maybe for non-technical college courses it will become popular.

Then maybe all these kids who grew up with ChromeOS will use it in their homes and maybe there will be the apps that allow ChromeOS to take over the workplace (personally, I'm somewhat surprised it hasn't taken over POS systems already).

But, the world isn't a static place. Maybe Microsoft will swallow their pride when it comes to making Windows a pay platform or maybe something better will come along.

Re:Google is your friend?

[Anonymous Coward]

Google is NOT your friend.
Google SPIES ON YOU 24/7
Everybody loves Google until they realise exactly what Google are doing
NEVER EVER Trust Google with your data. They'll sell it on in a flash

There fixed it for you.

Re:Google is your friend?

[Anonymous Coward]

Google does not sell your data.

It is far too valuable to them. They aren't going to up and sell it.

Be careful of generalizations

[mykepredko]

Maybe in *your* country most educational institutions don't even know what a Chromebook is...

But, in Canada, the Windows machine is going the way of the dodo. ChromeOS is very dominant in K-12 schools and boards are pushing Google Classroom for their students' email and project/assignments.

Re:Be careful of generalizations

[Anonymous Coward]

Google Classroom is HUGE here. It removes so many problems of the older computing models.

Re:$600 Chromebook $500 android/iPad/Surface Table

[blind biker]

Did you account for the fact that the Windows laptop comes with Windows 10, so it will reboot when bubba Microsoft says so, and it will upgrade, install or deinstall what bubba Microsoft says it will? That's my number one problem with Windows 10, and the main reason I avoid it as a plague.

I see a pattern here

[erp_consultant]

When iOS first came out MS largely ignored it. Then the iPhone became popular with the youngsters, youngsters of CEOs who also started using them. Next thing you know, the CEO wants to be able to use an iPhone at work.

Apple penetrated the corporate network from the outside in. I see the same thing happening with Chromebooks. The college kids of today are the future CEOs of tomorrow and they too will demand that their Chromebooks work in a corporate environment.

The enterprise is the last stranglehold that MS has.For now.

Re:I see a pattern here

[Osgeld]

pattern of 1

brillant

Re:I see a pattern here

[GeXX]

My cdw rep has told me that people are jumping ship from office 365 to gsuite in droves,, they are tired of not being able to use outlook for a week at a time, so the enterprise is going way too.

Chrome? LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously Chrome? LOL... that's got to be the dumbest thing I heard this whole year.... and that's a lot of dumb stuff...

Re:Chrome? LOL

[GeXX]

Chrome is clearly a joke, it is in most schools, 60% of people use it in the world, this joke of a laptop is now becoming a thorn in m$ side.. Clearly it's dumb.

Re: Chrome? LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

Eh Chrome OS and Chrome browser are different things you dumb fuck....

Something worse than ChromeOS

[Ol Olsoc]

Want to know what Microsoft might be really concerned about? This is half on Topic since it's about what Microsoft should be worried about.

My wife bought me a new inexpensive small form factor laptop for my use at breakfast and places I don't want to take my good laptop.

A cute little thing, and surprisingly zippy. It had a 32 GByte SSD which helped with that zip.

Then a Windows update came along. Oopsies - it failed. Not enough drive space.

Okay, I attached a terabyte drive to download the update. It downloaded, then again - Not enough drive space on the laptop. That's weird, the only thing I installed was FireFox, something like 350 MByte.

Oh hell. So I started deleting things I don't need. Then things I thought would probably be reinstalled with the update.

Couldn't get below needing another GByte of space on the laptop. So I reset it and took it back.

Looking around for another small form factor lappy, it seemed they almost all had those 32 GByte SSD's in them. And many of the display ones had the same "not enough space" for the update Windows.

So congratulations Microsoft - you have taken us down the road we were on with "Vista Ready" Laptops.

A generation of worthless lappys.

Re:Something worse than ChromeOS

[GeXX]

if i had the mod points I'd raise you.. This.. you get it..

Re:Something worse than ChromeOS

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had to deal with a few of these for my work (I wasn't in charge of picking them out!) ... you have to have the Windows 10 update on an external drive already (I have it on an SD card I can just pop in), have another drive attached for temporary storage, disable Windows Update service, delete everything in C:Windows\SoftwareDistribution or whereever it keeps WIndows-Update downloads, disable hibernation (powercfg /H OFF) and disable page file, to get enough space on C: for it to run the upgrade. Also be prepared to wait a good 4-5 hours for it to complete (at least, for build 1803)... Totally ridiculous. Not looking forward to the October '18 build... Stay away from HP STREAM laptops, and the like.

Re:Something worse than ChromeOS

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why I'm still posting from an Eee PC even now on Slackware; at least then your data isn't gobbled up by mysterious means, you chose to do it to yourself, always.

Re:Something worse than ChromeOS

[Ol Olsoc]

I've had to deal with a few of these for my work (I wasn't in charge of picking them out!) ... you have to have the Windows 10 update on an external drive already (I have it on an SD card I can just pop in), have another drive attached for temporary storage, disable Windows Update service, delete everything in C:Windows\SoftwareDistribution or whereever it keeps WIndows-Update downloads, disable hibernation (powercfg /H OFF) and disable page file, to get enough space on C: for it to run the upgrade. Also be prepared to wait a good 4-5 hours for it to complete (at least, for build 1803)... Totally ridiculous. Not looking forward to the October '18 build... Stay away from HP STREAM laptops, and the like.

Grandma has the system down pat. I figured I could get something to work, but no way was I going to put up with that. So back it went. I picked up a cheap Dell with a 500 GByte drive. Bigger form factor than I would like, but at least you don't have to be an IT wiz just to get those forced updates.

Re:Something worse than ChromeOS

[Ol Olsoc]

That's why I'm still posting from an Eee PC even now on Slackware; at least then your data isn't gobbled up by mysterious means, you chose to do it to yourself, always.

I'll never forgive Microsoft for killing those nice little computers. I have a Linux dedicated PC myself. If I ever don't need it for it's purpose, it will be pressed back into service for my personal use.

Re:Something worse than ChromeOS

[Anonymous Coward]

There are "Eeebook" with 32GB storage. Incredible hardware, it's fanless and lightweight. I was able to entire the UEFI set up (why, to boot on USB and wipe it of course. Too bad Linux Mint 32bit doesn't support UEFI)

Some modern big boy laptops, I'm not able to enter UEFI even when mashing the keys. So what I need to do is to power it down when it boots. When making boot fail twice, Windows shows you a "troubleshooting" screen and a tile icon allows you to enter UEFI.
My next fear is to some day use a low end laptop with 4GHz CPU and PCIe 4.0 SSD, and not have time to fail the boot. (using a low end laptop on Windows at 3.1GHz right now. it always maintains the turbo speed due to lack of crapware or video encoding running)

Re:Something worse than ChromeOS

[Anonymous Coward]

FFS really? 32GB? Don't go MS for that, go the manufacturer for shipping a device that was not fit for purpose. They are the ones who low-balled it with a 32GB SSD when a 128GB one would have set them back an extra $30 US .

Re:Something worse than ChromeOS

[Ol Olsoc]

FFS really? 32GB? Don't go MS for that, go the manufacturer for shipping a device that was not fit for purpose. They are the ones who low-balled it with a 32GB SSD when a 128GB one would have set them back an extra $30 US .

Negative. When Microsoft decided tht thy were going to rewrite the entire OS on every update, it knocked out devices that do not have the space.

Those Vista ready laptops and desktops that did not work wer built according to specifications tht Misrosoft very definitely said would indeed run Vista.

I understand that there is a large contingent of people who will defend Microsoft in all cases. This is why I always say that Microsoft can do no wrong, only we can do wrong to Microsoft.

And your idea that the manufacturers of thes computers ar eat fault is interesting. It wasn't just one, but all the major manufacturers who were so stupid to put in the substandard SSD's apparently no one listened to Microsoft when Misoft told them of the minimum requirements.

Meanwhile, a ChromeBook runs very nicely on a 16 GB SSD. I ran a dual boot ChromeOS and Linux Distro on a Chromebook at one time.

Re:Something worse than ChromeOS

[vandamme]

Put Linux on it. Problem solved.

Re:Something worse than ChromeOS

[donak]

I've had to deal with this same problem for myself and others. I have a Dell Inspiron ultra-book with a 32GB SSD, and I found that having anything at all installed on the laptop causes "not enough room for update". This includes creating a second user account, installing software on the SSD and the only solution was to remove any and all such "extras".

You also have to run "Disk Cleanup" from File Explorer including cleanup of system files: earlier "Windows.old" folders are the first thing to go ... there is no rolling back to the previous version.

I've come to the conclusion that the ACCC here in Australia have missed the opportunity to force all shops to stop selling such crap: the minimum practical SSD would be at least 64GB, preferably 128GB.

They are not fit for purpose!

Re:Something worse than ChromeOS

[Ol Olsoc]

Put Linux on it. Problem solved.

Impressive that Linux manages to put a whole functional OS on some small drives, while Windows is now at Jabba the Hutt status.

Re:Something worse than ChromeOS

[Ol Olsoc]

They are not fit for purpose!

That pretty much says it all.

The amazing thing is that the zealots are trying to blame the problem on everyone but the company that caused it:

The companies that apparently decided all on their own to assume that you only needed a 32 GByte drive.

My wife for not being a seasoned IT expert, and just like when she buys a car, she has the nerve to expect it to start. The nerv of that woman, thinking that if you pay for something it is supposed to work.

Me because reasons.

Microsoft demands control over the benefits of companies that partner with them.

Too bad they can't make an operating system that actually works.

Re:Something worse than ChromeOS

[vandamme]

There's a whole functional Linux OS on your router and TV.

Re: In Education-Yes. Magic 8 Ball Says Future Clo

[Anonymous Coward]

right about when pc gaming works great on a non-dedicated graphics card. Oh wait, that will be never......

In Exchange for your Privacy

[sycodon]

Well, they stand to make a fortune in advertising by tracking your every purchase, retail visit, and waking moment and selling the info.

So it's subsidized by your private information.

Re:In Exchange for your Privacy

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't be surprised if it was impossible to turn off the camera and microphone, too. And the EULA saying "we can record anytime we like, blocking the sensors is a breach of license."

$600? There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Re: In Exchange for your Privacy

[Anonymous Coward]

Chuwi HI13. A credible windows convertible for under $400.

Re: In Exchange for your Privacy

[Anonymous Coward]

The data is sold, and very often not for marketing purposes.

Re: In Exchange for your Privacy

[reanjr]

Do you get all your Google news from people in tin foil hats?

Re: In Exchange for your Privacy

[Anonymous Coward]

NO! BAD! NO! Getting a windows tablet is setting yourself up for a lot of anxiety and anger. No clear upgrade path, some of them are impossible to upgrade due to low storage, broken drivers caused by the upgrades. Plus that thing is slooooow as hell.

A popular selling platform that uses VBA

[tepples]

How good is Google Sheets at running the client-side product feed validation macro in the Excel workbook that Amazon provides to professional sellers on its platform? This macro is written in Visual Basic for Applications (VBA) and lets a seller test a product feed for common problems before submitting the file to Amazon's server for authoritative validation.

Re:A popular selling platform that uses VBA

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is using VBA a better approach than server side validation? This seems like a really kludgey solution.

If Google Docs prevents this type of thing, so much the better, IMO.

Recurring cloud storage bill

[tepples]

a n00b using big brother doesn't have to think for a second how he will get his pictures from his phone on to his laptop or the printer and wether his stuff is lost if his notebook shatters

Which becomes replaced with worry about losing his stuff if his cloud storage bill payment doesn't go through, or about losing access once he hits the ISP's data quota for the month.

Re:Recurring cloud storage bill

[Anonymous Coward]

You are aware that Chromebooks have USB ports and can write to memory sticks / external HDDs, right?

It's just like any other data: if you don't have a backup on a physical medium you personally control and secure you can never be 100% confident. However, again, just like any other data, you don't put all your eggs in one basket and make multiple backups of Very Important Data.

Re:Recurring cloud storage bill

[tepples]

You are aware that Chromebooks have USB ports and can write to memory sticks / external HDDs, right?

So can laptops that come with GNU/Linux or Windows, which come with USB ports and and SD/microSD slots. But I didn't know devices with a Memory Stick slot were still being produced.

Re:Recurring cloud storage bill

[Anonymous Coward]

The anonymous replier meant 'memory sticks' in the sense of USB flash drives.

Re:Recurring cloud storage bill

[Anonymous Coward]

'Memory stick' is also the generic term for USB flash drives in some languages (genericized trademark).

Re:Google is your friend?

[Anonymous Coward]

And the moon is made of green cheese.

Of course Google sell your data. They sell it to advertisers and anyone else willing to put up the cash.
Then those advertisers pay Google to put those targetted ads into the data that you get from them whenever you feed the dragon sorry, use Google to search for anything.
How else do they get all that money?
OTher companies also collect your data and sell it to advertisers.

I hate all adverts. If I had my way, all the Ad agencies would be made to close down tomorrow.

Maybe for non-computing students

[drinkypoo]

But students in most computing programs will need specific software which is not available for Chromebooks, and which only runs on Windows.

Re:Maybe for non-computing students

[Luthair]

Aside from perhaps a Microsoft cert I doubt you'll find any "computing programs" that require Windows. Most heavily use open source software which either work better on *nix or are only available there.

Re:Maybe for non-computing students

[Anonymous Coward]

Any Chromebook that can run Android apps already has Termux, which gives you a nice little GNU/Linux environment with apt, dpkg, and a decent selection of packages. The rise of Electron-based IDEs is allowing for full browser-based IDEs, as well, from RStudio (GNU R, statistics) to Eclipse Che, to NyaoVim. Unless you're specifically developing FOR WINDOWS it's eminently possible to develop from ChromeOS or any other Linux distro.

captcha: hostages

Chromebook takes away user freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

I am with the FSF on this one,. Chromebooks and everything like it are designed to take away your freedom. Chromebooks are generally the modern analog for dumb terminals connected to a mainframe computer. All of the wins of freedom, privacy, ownership of data, etc, are all being given up is being thrown away by these SaaS devices. In fact, People who think that these SaaS things are going to be free are in for a rude awakening when google starts charging you $100 a month for cloud services for all of these cloud app crap. When you have given up control like this you are basically at the whim of whatever google wants to charge because you are now buying a service rather than owning software. I wouldnt be so much opposed to chromebook if the device can allow the user to install their own OS. Linux distributions can support SecureBoot but it should also be able to be disabled as a developer feature in the BIOS setup.

Windows can't get out of its own way to save itself. What windows really needs to do is by default enforce cryptographic registration and signing of installer packages and having an application registry and signing program by signing authority further normalized, that would also be built into an app store but you can also register DVDs and sign the DVDs as well, which would also be subjected to the same security scans as they are being signed by the signing authority. Registration and signing should be free, but there should be a security scan of the binary during signing. Also containerization and sandboxing should so by default an app is confined to having access to its container but having a wizard/sharing manager for the user to selectively allow access to certain files outside the container, For developers, you should be able to disable this by turning on a developer mode in the control panel, so programs can be locally compiled for developer purposes. But having application developer register and having releases signed and running the code through security scanning would really help protect end users.This is basically to keep users from getting into trouble with trick downloads and so on that have plagued Windows and will help repair Windows reputation, without impairing the ability for people to compile their own stuff locally in developer mode.

I am aware that this sounds like it is taking away user freedom, but on any OS, a security system like above does not take away freedom as long as their is a developer mode that disables them, the developer mode can be made to be manually enabled and behind warning messages to discourage end users from doing it. Having security features on by default is needed however to protect the average users.

For authentic Linux distribution to become a real desktop player, it is clear that Canonical needs to work with PC manufacturers to get their distribution installed on laptops and hardware aimed at the general consumer market. I would suggest Canonical have a special spin of Ubuntu that is designed for end consumers, for these pre-installs. So far the Linux pre-installs have only been marketed for developers which is useless. If your a developer you're probably not going to want a preinstall anyway, so the whole concept is absurd. The reason Linux distributions have had poor uptake with end users is most people do not want to install an OS, they just use what came with the computer. Ubuntu could also have an android environment alongside the traditional Linux userland, nicely accessible from the Gnome UI to run android apps alongside a full traditional Linux userland to expand the application base.

Re:Chromebook takes away user freedom

[GeXX]

Freedom is amazing for those that know what it is, unfortunately most do not, or linux would be king of the desktop, sadly most people are challenged by copy and paste, so something like chromeos while simple, becomes an appliance for them like a blender, turn it on, make a smoothie and turn it off, they don't care about all the small details, just that they can check their banking, email and facebook.

Re:Chromebook takes away user freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 is not that bad on this front, it auto-downloads the updates, auto-creates a restore point (for major stuff at least), auto-updates. Like Windows 7 did but perhaps more reliable.

Now, if it could pause your applications, save the state and restore them after reboot... This would break networks connections and downloads and shit but would be enough for me.
Linux cops out, in a way. You can update everything and never reboot, but what you haven't re-launched anything in six months because your software hasn't crashed yet? In Windows, this could get you pwned.

Re:$600 Chromebook $500 android/iPad/Surface Table

[Anonymous Coward]

Well he mentioned putting Linux on it, so he's certainly jonesing for shitty sound subsystems and broken power management in 2018.

Re:Google is your friend?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, they do not do that. If you have evidence for that, post it.

They collect ads, and Google themselves decide which ads to show you. None of your data is sold by Google. There is no way for the people supplying the ads to see the contents of your documents for example. That is simply false.

Stop spreading FUD.

Re:In Education-Yes. Magic 8 Ball Says Future Clou

[LynnwoodRooster]

Apple made the same bet, about 20 years ago. They dumped massive resources into capturing the educational market. Their computers dominated classrooms K-12. And once they reached saturation, it resulted in nothing in terms of Windows' position in the business world. Chromebooks will most likely face the same fate: big adoption by schools - and no real change in Windows marketshare. Established markets and software offerings are what keep Windows dominant, not shiny and new features.

Replace testing with formal verification

[tepples]

As other people have noted, it really needs some native app development capability and I don't see that happening in sub $200 machines.

Hardware-wise, I don't see how "sub $200 machines" can't develop native apps. I used to run DJGPP, a distribution of GCC for MS-DOS, on a 1990s PC with a 25 MHz 486SX CPU and 8 MB (that's 0.008 GB) of RAM. Perhaps the real reason why today's "sub $200 machines" can't develop native apps is that the manufacturer locks them down to prevent native app development, with the intent of selling services to replace the locked-out parts. Notice how only the most expensive Chromebooks nowadays can run Crostini, the container to run GNU/Linux applications inside Chrome OS, and in "developer mode", the firmware makes the powerwash command more prominent than actually booting.

So this means schools that deploy Chromebooks need to carefully consider what students taking "Computer Science I" are supposed to use to complete their assignments. Borrowing time on school computers after school and hoping students have some way to get home after the school buses have left for the day isn't practical for all or probably even most students. Or are high school computer science classes instead supposed to follow the computer-free, formal-verification-oriented structure described in "On the Cruelty of Really Teaching Computer Science" by E. W. Dijkstra? He suggested using a programming language for which nobody has written a compiler or interpreter, such that students are expected to produce a pencil and paper proof that a program meets the functional specification instead of testing the program on a computer:

Right from the beginning, and all through the course, we stress that the programmer's task is not just to write down a program, but that his main task is to give a formal proof that the program he proposes meets the equally formal functional specification. While designing proofs and programs hand in hand, the student gets ample opportunity to perfect his manipulative agility with the predicate calculus. Finally, in order to drive home the message that this introductory programming course is primarily a course in formal mathematics, we see to it that the programming language in question has not been implemented on campus so that students are protected from the temptation to test their programs.

Re:Replace testing with formal verification

[faedle]

I have a $150 Dell Chromebook 15 and Crostini runs in dev mode just fine, so I suspect it's just a matter of time until that build makes it into beta.

Re:Replace testing with formal verification

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem why these machines cannot run native apps is 64bit computing finally breaking the 4GB barrier means no one gives a shit about ram usage anymore. When you need a machine with 32GB of ram just to see the OS and a web browser gobble up 4GB of that ram all on its own explains what is wrong. Not even a decade ago a machine with 4GB of ram was a crazy high end machine. Nowadays the OS and a single application can gobble up that much before you even begin doing any real work.

Re:$600 Chromebook $500 android/iPad/Surface Table

[Anonymous Coward]

Now if you toss linux on the $300 laptop, it gets much better...

That is why I buy only windows 10 ready products ;)

Other, better OSs are Chrome's biggest threat.

[mschaffer]

Windows is not being challenged by an OS. Until Microsoft completely messes things up most people (especially on the desktop or laptop) will continue to use Windows. When that happens I doubt that Chrome OS will fill in the gap as I suspect Google could screw things up just as well as Microsoft can---maybe even faster. The real question should be "Could Chrome OS ever dominate against the other OSs in a MS Windows vacuum?"

Re:Other, better OSs are Chrome's biggest threat.

[GeXX]

No one can screw up as much as microsoft, they've lost almost every market that they started.

Not bloody likely

[Anonymous Coward]

No, not a larger scale. And Google bribed their way into education, this I know first-hand, it wasn't a 'choice' on the part of schools, it was a cash infusion. If they had it their way, most educators would love to have MacBooks instead (they aren't terribly keen on iPads either, Apple is lying to us too).

Re: Google is your friend?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it really any better if Google finds it so valuable that they donâ(TM)t sell it directly? BTW they do sell it indirectly and itâ(TM)s so insidious that they are buying Mastercard data to match searches to in store transactions. If this does not bother you then you need to do some self reflection

No one likes windows - they tolerate it

[GeXX]

No one likes windows or trust microsoft, they tolerate it and use it because it's what the habit is, but overall, windows sucks, and is the old man that just won't die. Microsoft knows this, google knows this, and apple knows this. That's why microsoft is doubling down on subscriptions for every stupid thing, keep the money coming in as long as they can, and developing for other platforms, it may take another decade, but windows is on the way out for the home user, and the corporate world after that.

Want to go see why, head to a store, and you will find at least 1 windows computer with some warning about anti-virus, firewall, or some upsell, back in the day when computers were just for techs that was fine, but now they need to be a appliance, who would buy a car that came with a big warning sign on it.

Go to amazon read the chromebook reviews, then read the windows reviews.. It goes something like this, chromebook- turned it on and went to work.. Windows goes like this, after I got it, I spent a hour uninstalling a bunch of crap, then had to free up some space since someone thought 32gb was enough for it, after that, bought office, then a anti-virus, and after about 3 hours and 200 bucks more, ready to use the machine, just to find out it isn't fast, and runs facebook games slow, but hey it's better than chrome somehow?

Look at windows 10, every update breaks something, the UI is a mix of new stuff and stuff from windows 3.1. hell there are 2 control panels, and a people app that is totally useless for the most part.

Office 365 is heavy, onedrive sucks, does foreground syncs of files coming from onedrive, which takes 20-40 seconds on even the best hardware and internet, messes up excel files 25% of the time, sharepoint is down almost every day, and for some reason in the day of more data, they are the only one that for some reason reduces the amount of space people can get.

Oh then they go through and do a microsoft sam assessment every 2 years which isn't a audit, its more of a shake down to make sure that everything is purchased which is fine I guess, but when one is spending 40-50k a year like my company does with them, then get audited like dude.. F off, it really pushes me to go with alternatives which I already have, I am tired of having to pay for a product 2-3x (licencing plus cals, plus other hidden charges)

Microsoft is the only tech company that I've ever seen start off with some amazing products, were the first with most, but because they love to add 1000 features without polishing any of them, end up losing. For some reason they seem to think that having tons of features is more important than the user experience. I loved the spot watch, used one of their first mobile phones, they lost both markets, I saw the surface table at ces which I thought was amazing, then they come out with some small tablet, with the cheapest ssd they could buy (I had the highest of the surface book pro's and the ssd sucks) and then the cloth that they put on on the surface pro, that looks nice but ends up being dirty as poop, make a great ergonomic keyboard that is bluetooth only so if one is not in the os, then i need to plug in another keyboard just to get past the push f1 to boot.

Windows is like taking a 18 wheeler to 7-11 for milk, chromeos is like taking a car with a automatic transmission.. People just want to get on do their thing, turn it off and go, not mess with updates and a bunch of other crap for 2 hours.

Chromeos is the future, and now with linux support and having all the kids coming out of school into the workforce trained on it, will ensure that each and every chromebook is a threat to microsoft, there will be fringe cases, maybe 10% of people still holding onto one, but even now, I read somewhere that if one took all the smartphones, tablets and any other devices that connect to the internet in consideration windows is around 13% of the market. It just works..

Re:No one likes windows - they tolerate it

[sgage]

"Windows is like taking a 18 wheeler to 7-11 for milk, "

This is why I switched to Linux many years ago. Windows is just too much, layers and layers of too much. It has just grown too complex.

That said, no Chromebooks for me - I'll just use Linux, with my local apps, and my local storage. The kids don't seem to care about privacy anymore, and that's their business. I just don't want my stuff on someone else's computer. You know it is going to be compromised sooner or later, even with the best of intentions. Which I don't ascribe to Google, in any case.

Re:No one likes windows - they tolerate it

[GeXX]

You are far more technical than most, and know proper procedures on what to do, and how to save your data. I've fixed way too many computers that crashed from something they installed, and they just lost 10 years of data and photos because they did not know what they are doing, this is where chrome shines, those users will no longer lose the photos of their kids growing up, or notes, you would be the 10% of users.

Wow, that's amazing!

[kenh]

Ars Technica sees new $600 "premium Chromebooks" Dell, Samsung, HP, and Lenovo as a growing challenge to Windows, proving that Chrome OS is reaching beyond the education market. These $600 machines aren't aimed at those same students.

Can we dial down the 'techtonic shift' rhetoric until these more expensive chrome books start actually selling in large numbers?

It's one thing to sell a literal truckload of chronebooks to a school district where users have no choice in the platform and it's a completely different thing to sell $600 chrome books next to $500 windows laptops and $1k MacBooks in your local Best Buy showroom.

How 'wonderful' is the chrome book environment when you don't have your school district's IT department managing it for you?

Re:Wow, that's amazing!

[Anonymous Coward]

There's actually nothing to manage on the Chromebook. It's for all intents and purposes your smartphone in a bigger and more user friendly form factor. Users don't have to install drivers or anything in ChromeOS, just the apps they want/need.

As someone who has both a Win 10 PC and a Chromebook I can see how an average person would be far more attracted to a Chromebook. It never crashes, no viruses/malware, super fast and in alot of ways simple. People are already used to their smartphones and ChromeOS is not really that different from it so there's familiarity there already.

Commentors slamming ChromeOS are all talking about how ChromeOS can't render their videos or compile their code but they represent a small fraction of people who actually use a computer and regardless they probably wouldn't even be buying a mid-range laptop because it doesn't have the power to run their tasks in a timely manner anyways. I'm not the average user so I have use for a Windows PC but if I wasn't a gamer I could definitely see myself using my Chromebook exclusively

Re:Google is your friend?

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to the discussion. When people say 'Google is selling your data' they don't actually mean they're bundling up and selling your raw data wholesale. That would be stupid.

They mean that Google provides services based on and analysis of your data for profit. The depth and personal level of that data available at the mercenary tier would likely be quite limited. 'Partners' would have deeper levels, they would also slip through the privacy policies in intersting ways. Wholy owned subsidaries... deeper still.

Google itself has a scout's promise not to deep dive on your most personal data.

Finally, Google is an American company, mostly on American soil. As a non citizen, non resident, you have no constitutional rights. You are wholesale exporting your personal information to a foreign country.

You can hope it's aggregate data, but who knows how it could be used in the future?

The browser couldn't replace the OS

[rsilvergun]

when Netscape was a thing. It was too slow and clunky. Fast processors and JavaScript compilers fixed that.

They're already giving Win 10 to OEMs for $5-$7 dollars on Chromebook class computers. Adjusted for inflation that's cheaper than the $5 you'd pay for WinXP on a Netbook back in the day (the figures tend to leak because OEMs are pretty pissed at Microsoft).

Moreover the writing's on the wall for Microsoft's intentions. They want to go the Mac route of making both hardware and software and having a locked down store. Win 8 was supposed to do that with the surface but failed. Remember SteamOS? That was Valve panicking. Notice how it went on the back burner when the Windows store collapsed?

But they haven't completely backed off, they've got custom Wine ports now for individual games. OEM Chromebooks like the 15.6" Lenova for $600 are the same thing. OEMs are getting ready for a post Windows world when Microsoft shuts them out.

Not sure if it'll work for them. We might go back to the days when hardware and OS are inextricably linked (Amiga, Atari ST, C64, Atari 800, etc) but with only 2 players. That'll suck hard. But either way Microsoft wins since Office runs on a Chromebook in a browser.

Here you go

[rsilvergun]

right here

Microsoft is willing to give some ground on Windows in exchange for subscription revenue for office.

Re: Google is your friend?

[that this is not und]

It's so insidious that an instance involving MC data trafficing a number of years ago has been uncovered.

Re: In Education-Yes. Magic 8 Ball Says Future Cl

[that this is not und]

That depends on what kind of gaming you mean.

Gee-whiz games where the point is the ability to project near-reality graphics, you are right.

But games on the level of Stardew Valley, Minecraft, or a Zelda adventure are about the playing experience. It has never been about ever escalating gee-whiz hardware upgrades in your 'rig.'

Re:$600 Chromebook $500 android/iPad/Surface Table

[Bonker]

About a year and a half ago, I purchased a Dell Laptop (Core i5, integrated graphics, 500gb HDD) because a) my Samsung tablet had just shattered and b) I needed something to do schoolwork on that could be taken to my local 2 year college and used on their premises.

(Note that a pencil and a spiral notebook would have been just as effective for 90% of my work there...)

It cost me ~ $450 US. The Chromebooks and Android tablets that were equivalent and available were in the $300-$400 range. The laptop came with win10 preinstalled. I could not get a 'bare' laptop for less since I was taking advantage of several overlapping discounts. I never let win10 boot on it. I immediately blew it away in favor of a Mint Linux install.

The amount of computing power that laptop wields in comparison to a Chromebook or Tablet is, frankly, ridiculous and unnecessarily. Unbound by Windows idiocy, it is far more powerful than many 'enterprise server' (*gag*) class machines that I've worked with in the not-too-distant past. Not only can I be running 1080p video on the thing, I can run the IDE and development environment of my choice, including a database server, Libre Office, a real email client, Firefox *and* Chrome, simultaneously, *and* still have cycles and resources left for downloading more crap to watch.

I'm almost completely unbound by proprietary and/or closed-source software. I don't have to run any closed source software if I don't want to. I don't *have* to run any mandatory spyware. (Chromium gets launched if I'm developing against it.) I'm immune to any kind of lock-in and thanks to my IT background, feel no bonus for keeping my crap 'in the cloud'. I am not a 'sync-er'. (If it's not backed up and stored in a fireproof container, etc..., etc...)

Now a lot of that power is conditional on the fact that I understand how to install and take care of a linux desktop. I understand how to do my own backups as well as their value. I understand how to work to protect my privacy with encryption and VPNs. I understand how to troubleshoot little, niggling problems that would drive an Android or MacOS user insane. (You poor Windows guys. I just ache for you. I've been there, and I'm so very sorry there aren't more ways out for you.) I don't *have* to get nickeled and dimed to death by the 'Android Store.'

About the only places that any given Chromebook really outshines my setup is on weight and electrical power consumption... and that's not really an issue for me since there are charging stations near everywhere these days. It's also a reflection of the kind of power I'm sitting on. If a Chromebook is an electric smart-car, my Laptop is a highly-tuned muscle car, with the gas mileage to match.

Yeah, there are benefits to be had in ditching a Windows Laptop for a Chromebook. However, if you're willing to take the time to understand what you're doing, and that's NOT a little thing, you can get a WHOLE LOT MORE bang for your buck with a laptop equivalent in price to that Chromebook.

When you can't buy Minecraft (Java) anymore

[tepples]

when the day comes and microsoft abandons java minecraft people will still be able to run it because it does not depend on any servers and markus made sure it has zero drm.

But how will people new to Minecraft obtain a lawfully made copy to run in a JVM? Microsoft will still own the copyright after it withdraws Minecraft (for Java platform) from distribution and will still have every right to issue notices of claimed infringement, followed by a lawsuit a month later like Nintendo did with those ROM sites a few weeks back.

Re:When you can't buy Minecraft (Java) anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI, Microsoft does not own Java.

Re:When you can't buy Minecraft (Java) anymore

[tepples]

True, but Microsoft does own Minecraft, and it can stop selling the right to download the version of Minecraft made for the Java platform.

For real?

[Anonymous Coward]

Chromebooks are like Windows 10 S - locked down, and locked to a Store. That's fairly attractive hardware for $600, but I can go into Walmart (or .com) and buy a HP full-scale laptop with W10 Home 64-bit, some expandability (memory, HD upgrade typical for a laptop), and the ability to run any Windows software, for $700. Not on sale - regular price. I'm not in love with HP, but that's an attractive deal despite the need for bloatware cleanup and the maintenance-intensive nature of W10. For $100 more than the price of the Chromebook in the article. Of course, the Chromebook will be heavily discounted, so the difference in the real world should be greater, but still, at the price points noted, the HP is a better deal.

:Locked down

[Anonymous Coward]

If Chrome OS is locket down, then it sould be as user-unfriendely as the iPad, where you have to first create your application, upload it to the AppleApp Store, download it again, install and run.

For most non-professional users, MS-DOS is the easiest to use.

188 posts, no Betteridge references

[93 Escort Wagon]

I guess it only applies when you WANT the answer to be “no”.

its the only reason applr stuck around

[Anonymous Coward]

During Apples dark financial period, it was because of the true fan boys that got exposed to apple in highschool. Of course it wont be any different here.

Apple also got some Microsoft love early when they maintained msoffice for mac.

ChromeOS is just one threat to Microsoft, but really any desktop OS, i dont have much need for them nor do most members of my family. The smartphone accomplishs most tasks, and as soon as you can easily connect a keyboard mouse and monitor to a smartphone, the desktop is dead

No, it isn't

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't even really handle multitasking. In a video chat, half of the time when you go to another program, your camera pauses. Useless. Get basic multitasking done right first.

It's a new twist for MS to think about

[nehumanuscrede]

As it stands today, Chrome OS isn't anything for MS to be concerned about. Tomorrow, however, things get a bit more complicated.

Fast forward a bit where MS jumps on the subscription bandwagon and things will get interesting.

Hell, it might even finally be the " Year of the Linux Desktop ".

The amusing part is greed by MS is what will kick this snowball off the mountaintop.

Re:It's a new twist for MS to think about

[ilsaloving]

They've already jumped on that bandwagon.

Windows 10 Home is so gimped that it's almost the equivalent of Windows 7 Starter Edition.
Windows 10 Pro has been gimped so that it's barely better than Windows 7 Home.
Everything else has been pushed to Enterprise edition, which is $15 a month (CAN$).

It's no wonder Chrome OS is gaining popularity. It's no wonder Apple is making money hand over first regardless of how stupid they make their hardware.

I doubt there will ever be a YOTLD thought. Not unless they collectively narrow a number of critical gaps in the ecosystem and the OS, compared to the other current commercial OSes (which I really don't want to get into a discussion over).

No.

[Chris Mattern]

Next question, please.

Re: Google is your friend?

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft clearly aims to beat Microsoft at their own game.

Not everybody is proficient at soldering

[tepples]

Some people are confident enough to replace socketed components, such as RAM and SSD, but not soldered ones, such as the power jack. I currently fall in this category and have had to have a Dell laptop's power jack repaired under warranty.

Re: Not everybody is proficient at soldering

[that this is not und]

I just bought my first hot-air rework station. It was surprisingly cheap on Amazon.

Access to parts, and knowledge of the arcana to even safely get into the enclosure of lots of modern electronic stuff is a real barrier.

Re: In Education-Yes. Magic 8 Ball Says Future Clo

[Anonymous Coward]

Apples ploy on education failed simply because of the IBM Microsoft deal, which plonked zillions of PC units in business thereby cutting Apple off from their endgame.

Prevalidation reduces burning through upload quota

[tepples]

A file submitted to the Marketplace Web Service counts against the server-side throttling whether it is valid or not. A file rejected as invalid by a VBA macro before upload to MWS does not. In addition, macros allow completion of category names, condition names, and the like.

Give me a break!

[Anonymous Coward]

A $600 whatever book was all it needed to defeat Microsoft ? Hilarity ensues.

Web Apps and rural living

[gklott]

Chrome OS and web applications are not for a rural home and or mobile lifestyle, when you have is a 15 GB/month LTE SIM or limited satellite service with long latency. Until mobile providers offer 60-80 GB plans for about $4/GB, stand-alone OS and apps rule out here.

Another reason

[ilsaloving]

Lets also not forget the other big reason:

Windows 10 is shit. Or rather, Microsoft's management of it is shit. The way Microsoft is obnoxiously ripping control away from users unless they pay the stupidly expensive price for Enterprise edition, is total bullshit.

Microsoft has finally given people a reason to want to get away from Windows. And those that arn't tied to windows-exclusive software are doing exactly that.

Dumping the Windows 7 UI was the real threat

[Anonymous Coward]

The fact that most of us that want a workable machine have to install Classic Shell tells you that Microsoft botched the UI design. It is great for a phone, but terrible for a Desktop.

No

[Anonymous Coward]

Not until I can play every game in my Steam Library of which I have only about 1.5TB installed, and install what I want from where I want and use it how I want. I do not want to be restricted to the "Google Ecosystem"

I don't want to pay per GB for cloud storage and stream my content, I want it there, in front of me, where I own it (if it is on my device there and now, then it is mine).

Yea, right...

[JediJorgie]

Yea, Chrome OS is such a threat to Windows, that Google is adding the ability to run Windows to Chromebooks. /s

https://www.computerworld.com/...

Yea, it is only rumor, but Google is about profit and getting data wherever they can. They will happily let you run Windows on their Chromebooks and you can bet that data-gathering will be built in the drives/platform-support. It's a win-win for MS and Google.

WPS Office on Android -- Chromebook (Google Play)

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems like a spot-on Chinese clone of Microsoft Office freely available for Android devices via the Google Play Store, which will be available for Chromebooks...

https://play.google.com/store/...

If you ever saw the test builds.

[Anonymous Coward]

WDL
O365L
SQL 2017 - Release

Theyâ(TM)re embracing Linux slowly but surely. Maintaining the Windows Kernel is the big pain in the pocket. Services are where they make money.

Microsoft suicide

[Anonymous Coward]

By ogling Google's money and deciding to imitate Google (making Windows increasingly spy on the users and shove unrequested crap at them) Microsoft surrendered whatever high ground they had.

If your OS is gonna abuse you, you might as well have a more modern and free one - ChromeOS.

If Microsoft is gonna survive, it needs to dump the spying and backdoors and get back to being a serious OS that respects its users (as in WinXP or earlier) and is then free to attack Google's junk as evil. As long as Microsoft is playing on Google's turf, Microsoft's days are numbered. It's not all that surprising though I suppose that neither corporate giant understands much of America anymore - both now have CEOs who are from India. The industry arose in a hotbed of American entrepreneurship, blended with American libertarianism and a 1960s-1980s American "can do" spirit. I guess running an American tech giant is another of those jobs "Americans won't do now"... (oh, and the comment is NOT about race, it's about CULTURE. Superficial genetic issues like skin color or eye color or hair color have nothing to do with it. Trying to twist it into race is a dishonest diversion).

The threat isn't that kids are loyal to chromeos

[TomBauserman]

It's that they're growing up being able to use any OS and they don't care which OS they use. Throw them android in front of them ok whatever. iOS sure. Windows bring it on. So they are no longer loyal to a single OS.

GIYF

[bdwoolman]

How do I transfer files between Android and Linux over USB? ?

data does not support your claim

[mschaffer]

Source: StatCounter Global Stats - OS Market Share

Living in your own Bizarro World?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, what's it like in your own mind? Meanwhile, back on planet Earth...
You really only have two flavors of pre-installed OSs for PCs: Windows or MacOS. And Mac OS is definitely the "also ran" except for Macintosh hardware.
Microsoft Office still dominates on both Windows and Mac. (In fact, this is one of the big reasons organizations cannot stick with Linux.)