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To Fight Climate Change, California Says 'We're Launching Our Own Damn Satellite' (latimes.com)
An anonymous reader quotes the Los Angeles Times:
Jerry Brown closed his climate summit in San Francisco on Friday with a dramatic announcement: California will launch its own satellite into orbit to track and monitor the formation of pollutants that cause climate change. "With science still under attack and the climate threat growing, we're launching our own damn satellite," Brown said in prepared remarks. "This groundbreaking initiative will help governments, businesses and landowners pinpoint -- and stop -- destructive emissions with unprecedented precision, on a scale that's never been done before...."
The state will develop the satellite with the San Francisco-based Earth-imaging firm Planet Labs, a company founded by former NASA scientists in 2010. The state may ultimately launch multiple satellites into space, according to the governor's office.... Robbie Schingler, co-founder of Planet Labs, said the project will inform "how advanced satellite technology can enhance our ability to measure, monitor, and ultimately, mitigate the impacts of climate change..." Brown's announcement came in quickly delivered remarks at the close of the three-day gathering and received a standing ovation from many in the audience.
Governors from 17 states (and from both political parties) also pledged to spend $1.4 billion to lower auto emissions, using money from Volkwagen's legal settlement over falsifying clean-air performance data. New York City also announced that its pension fund would invest $4 billion in companies offering climate change solution over the next three years.
And 26 states, cities and businesses said they'd procure non-polluting vehicle fleets by 2030, while ChargePoint and EV Box pledged to build 3.5 million new charging stations around the world.
The state will develop the satellite with the San Francisco-based Earth-imaging firm Planet Labs, a company founded by former NASA scientists in 2010. The state may ultimately launch multiple satellites into space, according to the governor's office.... Robbie Schingler, co-founder of Planet Labs, said the project will inform "how advanced satellite technology can enhance our ability to measure, monitor, and ultimately, mitigate the impacts of climate change..." Brown's announcement came in quickly delivered remarks at the close of the three-day gathering and received a standing ovation from many in the audience.
Governors from 17 states (and from both political parties) also pledged to spend $1.4 billion to lower auto emissions, using money from Volkwagen's legal settlement over falsifying clean-air performance data. New York City also announced that its pension fund would invest $4 billion in companies offering climate change solution over the next three years.
And 26 states, cities and businesses said they'd procure non-polluting vehicle fleets by 2030, while ChargePoint and EV Box pledged to build 3.5 million new charging stations around the world.
Get real jobs. Want to help poverty and improve health of society? Become doctors or serve the poor. Talk is cheap, government funding is usually used wastefully, pointing guns at people telling them to follow these new regulations will only send them running... to another state.
CA will tax consumed goods/.services based on which nation/state
That is probably unconstitutional.
Fight implies California is in a rockem sockem beat down with climate. Personification of a one on one match.
So Jerry Brown launches a satellite.
What does he think that will accomplish ?
Does he think California somehow has the power to tell other states or countries what to do ? Good luck with that !
What a waste of tax money. I like visiting certain parts of California, but there's no way I'd ever live there, because the government is WAY too irrational.
Fuck Californians and their tendency to want to tell the rest of us how to live.
CA will tax consumed goods/.services based on which nation/state
That is probably unconstitutional.
*Citation required*
The state has the highest poverty level.
Maybe they can put jerry in the satellite. At least it will serve some purpose.
New York City also announced that its pension fund would invest $4 billion in companies offering climate change solution over the next three years.
What could possibly go wrong?
How much pollution did the rocket you used to get that thing into orbit create? Besides, as a Californian satellite it'll just spend all its time lecturing the other satellites about the #MeToo movement, vegan "cuisine," five minute showers once a week to conserve water in an ocean-bordered state, the merits of socialism, and to check their privilege.
Don't forget leaving its blinker on the entire time but never changing orbit.
"This groundbreaking initiative will help governments, businesses and landowners pinpoint -- and stop -- destructive emissions with unprecedented precision, on a scale that's never been done before...."
That sounds like exactly what Trump would say to sell one of his own initiatives. The words like "groundbreaking," "unprecedented," and "never been done before" sure have a very used car salesman sort of ring to them.
Gotta do something to distract from the $100 billion 100 MPH train from Bakersfield to Modesto!
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US Constitution Article 1, Section 8:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,
...
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
US Constitution Article 1, Section 10:
...
No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing its inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.
Jerry Brown's Secret War on Clean Energy
Had They Bet On Nuclear, Not Renewables, Germany & California Would Already Have 100% Clean Power
From the language:
This groundbreaking initiative will help governments, businesses and landowners pinpoint -- and stop -- destructive emissions with unprecedented precision, on a scale that's never been done before...."
project will inform "how advanced satellite technology can enhance our ability to measure, monitor, and ultimately, mitigate the impacts of climate change...
I'm not familiar with requirements for methane detection from the orbit, but the first quote sounds like they would try to do it. Information for water and fire management, remote mapping in general and detection of under risk areas might be goals as well. I doesn't sound as a simple cube-sat job.
So where is California going to get the money to build this satellite? Launch costs are only a small part of the bill.
There's a reason the Us government doesn't launch and pinpoint emissions like this. its not because the corporations are paying them not to, its because they'd get tied up in court the first time they tried to force a company to lower its emissions based on satellite scans.
California will probably wind up in court long before this gets off the ground based on this alone.
Any initiative that doesn't mention overpopulation is just rearranging the deck chairs on the suicide cult ark.
Call it a 'Carbon Production Tax'.
A Tax on X produced with an excess of Y.
Then it's not targeting a foreign country or State.
"This groundbreaking initiative will help governments, businesses and landowners pinpoint -- and stop -- destructive emissions with unprecedented precision, on a scale that's never been done before...."
I'm assuming you're building the worlds largest Bullshit Detector, because that's about the only thing that's going to keep one-sided politics from influencing and controlling whatever the fuck you plan on doing with satellites.
The problem isn't finding evidence that we humans are doing plenty to fuck up our atmosphere and environment. The problem is convincing enough of the greedy fucks in charge to give up their precious money in order to do something about it. For the worlds largest polluters, revenue is all that matters, side effects be damned.
Launch all the "damn" satellites you want. Until you fix the political problem, any results will continue to fall on deaf ears.
Looks like there's nothing in the Constitution about states having the power to launch their own satellites, sorry kid! Back to school with you!
A good lawyer could argue that any incentives or penalties based on origin is effectively a duty.
The bigger question is why CA is accepting any Federal money if they've got cash to burn on shit like this.
Good for you, California! You do you.
$4B worth of virtue-signaling. Political games are why most pensions are going bust. From over-promising via shameless lies to this sort of blatant virtue-signaling instead of seeking the best (in value and risk) return on investment to keep the pension solvent and able to meet obligations.
I'm sure CA would be happy to stop accepting federal money completely, provided that the federal gov. stopped accepting any money from CA.
Nullius in verba
deally, CA will tax consumed goods/.services based on which nation/state the worst sub-part/service comes from. In doing that, it will reward nations/states that have cleaned up, while punishing those that have not.
You cannot have a State or Country-specific taxation in California, per the US Constitution.
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That is probably unconstitutional.
Yeah, SCOTUS felt the same way about most everything in the New Deal.
"In the preceding decades, the Court had struck down a laundry list of Progressive legislation – minimum-wage laws, child labor laws, agricultural relief laws, and virtually every element of the New Deal legislation that had come before it."
It seems awfully familiar to me as progressive legislation is often forced to drag our nation (kicking and screaming) into a better future that the easily-fooled insist is wrong and evil.
The new deal impeded the recovery by 7 years and that's likely an under estimate as it comes from UCLA
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/relea...
Without WWII god knows when it would of ended, we might well have become a Venezuella a country ruled by a clique continuously promising freebies to a population while they abused the system for personal profit.
So when you say progressive policies dragged us, you mean like an anchor.
Satellites are subject to international agreements. Lasy I checked, that is a federal matter. Sounds like more Trump bashing for sport and posturing rather than something logical. Why not build some water reservoirs or something that might actually help their state?
This moron has been around way too long. Only SMART thing he did was date Linda Ronstadt back in the 70's.
If this doesn't wake up the sane people to how farcical climate alarmism is, I don't know what would. You're going to expend and waste the resources to launch a craft into space, creating a very large carbon footprint in the process, to collect data. There's no justification for such a waste and huge footprint to provide redundant data.
The only scenario I can think of that makes sense is the ability to define and control the climate statistics used in california laws on climate change instead of relying on federal statistics.
Fuel consumption on a Falcon 9 (surely their launch vehicle of choice) is equivalent to ~70 typical diesel cars (8l/100km) driving a typical 20k km/year for 1 year.
E.g., not a tiny amount of emissions, but not some vast amount either.
They carry weapons and they know if you've been bad or good. Not everybody's good, but everyone tries.
So let me get this right... The State of California is going to spend tends of millions of tax payer dollars to fabricate and lance a new weather satellite, expend mega tons of CO2 emissions to do so, placed even more space junk into an already crowding upper atmosphere, and lock the tax payers into a plan that will force them to spend millions of rollers to maintain and monitor that satellite... all to repeat the same data collection that NOAA is already doing now. Because Drumpf!!!
Is really the plan? Or am I missing something?
Yes, Americans are one of the biggest producers of CO2. But that still isn't enough, they import more than everyone else too and use up other countries CO2.
Sound like a bunch of entitled assholes don't they Windbag.
Why not respond to all your lies Windbag?
As usual, these comments are mean-spirited and lacking substance. Get me out of here.
No we will take what ever the fuck we want from CA.
I was torn but your liberal usage of CAPS LOCK really won me over in the end.
On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
Don't you get it? Homeless are some of the lowest per capita emitters of C02. The more homeless California has the greater their impact on climate change!
On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
You cannot have a State or Country-specific taxation in California, per the US Constitution
You can. Remember, the exact phrasing matters.
...because that's a prudent use of the taxpayer's money: "Virtue signaling".
Oh yeah, and there's this: https://californiapolicycenter...
-Styopa
Nope. It was protectionist tariff regimes that followed a decade of lax regulation and overweening corruption under Republican misrule.
They even managed to sucker folks with a lack of properly apportionment for the House, which still haunts us today.
Don't worry though, this time the right-wing will finally succeed in their plan to take over government.
Consent of Congress. Inspection laws? You mean laws that would be selectively enforced per Country of origin?
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Yet the tax base of that state... is currently first reaped by the state coffers and then their citizens are allowed to adjust their national contributions based on how much they paid to the state. This by definition decreases the contribution to the nation's tax base. So by the same definition... if your state doesn't directly tax your income you wind up paying the full amount of national taxes. Thus you should either receive better treatment than the state-taxed residents... or a refund against the difference.
Peace out.
You should learn to read
Economists today, however, hold a different view of the effects of Smoot-Hawley. While economic historians generally believe the tariff was misguided and may have aggravated the economic crisis, the consensus appears to relegate it to a minor status relative to other forces.
NASA and NOAA already do this.
Of course CA with its trillion dollar debt should fling another satellite or few up there. After all, itâ(TM)s not going to make a difference.
Ah the Cole and Ohanian paper again, but with an extra heaping of customized unhinged exaggeration ("and that's likely an under estimate as it comes from UCLA"). Since the legislation was signed in June 1933, three months after FDR entered office (March 4 in those days), and the Great Depression did in fact end no later than June 1940 when the US per capita GDP had recovered to its pre-depression level (the NBER, who is the semi-official self-designated shot-caller for recessions places it much earlier, but there are good reasons to disregard their definition). I guess since the paper is from UCLA economists he believes FDR actually signed the legislation before he took office perhaps.
As Ohanian himself sighed 12 years after the paper was published:
“People on the right would say, ‘Hey, look — these guys from UCLA — which is not perceived as some traditionally conservative place — said Roosevelt was to blame for the Depression continuing,’” Ohanian said. “Then people on the left would say, ‘Oh, these guys are conservative, paid mouthpieces for the Koch Foundation,’ which, of course, we were not. But neither side really understands what we did. “
Now this complaint by Ohanian admittedly does nothing to clarify the matter of "what he did" and no explanation at all is found in the entire press release I linked to. You might however want to read this discussion of Ohanian and Cole's claims.
Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
Well, no, inspection laws are protected from Congress, as a right of the state.
It's like he spun the random tech solution wheel ...
"We'll fix it with ... a satellite!"
It's like saying you'll fix everything with blockchain, only fifty years out of date.
To fight climate change, California says "We're launching our own damn satellite! With blackjack, and hookers!"
#DeleteFacebook
Problem is - you have to treat all products equally. So you cannot have different inspection fees by origin. Want to hammer China for their high CO2 emissions? You have to also add that "inspection tax" to all products of the same category from all sources - foreign or domestic.
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What is needed is multiple like OCO2/OCO3. Then monitor around the world. Seriously, a number of nations cheat. With the sats, it will be possible to find out which ones. Ideally, CA will tax consumed goods/.services based on which nation/state the worst sub-part/service comes from
There are many reasons to go into space: To gain new knowledge, to help our ships at sea steer a safer course, to explore and learn new techniques of mapping and observation, to discover new tools of science and medicine, to expand the furthest outposts on the new frontier, for the growth of science and education.
Some may go to space not because it is easy, but because it is hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one they are willing to accept, one they are unwilling to postpone, and one which they intend to win.
But only California would go to space to raise taxes.
DATABASE WOW WOW
Why would it be unconstitutional?
1. Import-Export Clause of The US Constitution
2. Tax and Spending Clause of the US Constitution
States can't collect tariffs, can't tax based on origin, and can't have their own foreign policies.
Nothing illegal about that.
Bullcrap.
Before you continue arguing for tossing out these constitutional clauses, because, hey, Jerry Brown is a great guy, you should consider that they could then be abused by your opponents as well. If California can have their own foreign policy, then why not Texas and Oklahoma?
The Constitution was well thought out and well written. We water it down at our peril.
You misspelled Democrat
Ah the Cole and Ohanian paper again, but with an extra heaping of customized unhinged exaggeration ("and that's likely an under estimate as it comes from UCLA"). Since the legislation was signed in June 1933, three months after FDR entered office (March 4 in those days), and the Great Depression did in fact end no later than June 1940 when the US per capita GDP had recovered to its pre-depression level (the NBER, who is the semi-official self-designated shot-caller for recessions places it much earlier, but there are good reasons to disregard their definition). I guess since the paper is from UCLA economists he believes FDR actually signed the legislation before he took office perhaps.
Gee how might that happen ?
Hoover did not stand idly by after the depression began. To fight the rapidly worsening depression, Hoover extended the size and scope of the federal government in six major areas: (1) federal spending, (2) agriculture, (3) wage policy, (4) immigration, (5) international trade, and (6) tax policy.
https://www.econlib.org/librar...
What do you know they had virtually the same policies.
You'd hit a lot harder if you actually knew your history, points for trying to slip that by though
If it's burning liquid Oxygen and liquid Hydrogen, it's not creating any pollution, genius.. The byproduct would be WATER.
(this is not an endorsement of this project that we cannot afford)
I'm glad somebody from a government body is actually listening to the scientists.
The information they want is already gathered by NOAA.
In addition, the state of California lacks any facilities to fly any satellites of the size and mission duration they want. All existing facilities belong to, or are fully controlled by, the Federal government.
Mission is another point. Unless California is going to shell out for the huge, geosynchronous satellites, their vehicle will spent 90% or more of its time over not-California. But if they put a vehicle in a geosynch orbit, it won't have the ability to measure anything useful on Earth.
Also as part of the mission is duration. LEO satellites tend to have fairly short life spans. 5-10 years is normal. You think the state of California can afford to spend a billion dollars building, launching, and flying a satellite to show them a low resolution spectrometer image? When they can just drive out there and plant much more accurate sensors?
It's a boondoggle; an idiot nerd's techno non-solution to a problem that was already solved.
These are not based on origins. It is based on emissions. Big difference.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
That is already the case. More federal money flows to Red states, while Blue states are constantly milked by the GOP.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I have a better IDEA. How about the feds pay each state what is collected in their state? CA would LOVE it. In fact, all of the blue/purple states would love it. We are the ones supporting the feds while the red states suck on the tits and waste money such as the SLS/Orion crap, the M1A2 which is in dire need of major upgrade, or decent fighters that are not produce in texas with such piss-poor quality and outrageous prices. What L-Mart charges America and our allies for the F-35 is nothing less than treason. The list goes on and on.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Since it is applied to all goods/serivce in CA, including CA's, it is NOT location specific. It is charged and then if businesses want to lower it/remove it, they can simply list all the parts/services and the CO2 emitted from that area. They do not have to list location.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
America's "rocket man."
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
How did this turd get re-elected? wow, nobody understands the crap he slings. He wants to have this vision of his perfect world. Why can't we just launch him and be done with it.
No, it's point of origin. For example, let's say CA wants to "punish" China for its high CO2 output via "import examination taxes" on all electronics products. They have to have the same levy/tax on products from Japan, Germany, and even Texas or Washington. So the net effect is ZERO "punishment" for a specific player (in this example, China) but for all players in a given industry.
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It has NOTHING to do with location other than the CO2 that emits from there.
This is a direct violation of the WTO membership treaty signed by the US. Tariffs can't discriminate on "process and production methods".
Nations do it ALL THE TIME.
California is not a nation.
exactly right. That is why you tax at a single level (that slowly rises), but allow businesses to list where the worst part/service comes from, and then adjust accordingly. BUT, it has to be applied to ALL. IOW, CA has to either tax its locally produced for local consumption as either from America, or from CA. Either would work.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
.. of the states vs the feds.
The current administration is taking advantage of a 1917 treaty and "because national security." to write executive orders that favour the wrong side of America.
States are countering with "states rights."
For reference, look at marijuana, vehicle emission/mpg limits, immigration, gun control, etc.
States can launch all the satellites they can afford and use tactics like that to circumvent a batshit cray cray executive and a non-performing congress.
In all three cases, whether state, executive or legislative, the People are speaking.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
No fag, you misspelled USA. Your GOP went full traitor and we're going to hang you.
there is no possible way this could ever work.
Don't think it works that way. States cannot apply discriminatory regulations and taxes on products from different sources.
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Leave the fags out of it. The fags are actually on the side of left and against the GOP.
The GOP is fucking scary and destroying the USA. Donâ(TM)t put that shit on us!
But isn't that the whole point? A Pigouvian tax on carbon *should* be universal.
Ezekiel 23:20
Satellites are subject to international agreements. Lasy I checked, that is a federal matter.
So what? That doesn't mean that the federal government is the only entity allowed to launch and operate satellites.
Ezekiel 23:20
It has to be on value, is my understanding of how tariffs are applied. Doing a sliding tariff based upon believed transgressions of one sort or another are not allowable. Consider the CARB requirements - they are a flat rate, on all vehicles, and do not scale with "too gas-guzzling" and such. It's an either/or and for all items in a given category.
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No fag, you misspelled USA. Your GOP went full traitor and we're going to hang you.
.
No, what will happen is that we will tie you to a tree and gut you, and watch you while the forest creatures feast on you.
M1A2 which is in dire need of major upgrade
What? The best tank in the world is in need of a major upgrade? Tanks are pointless anyway, who are you fighting with tanks?
Like the one that crashed into the ocean. What an environmental disaster OCO1
"The information they want is already gathered by NOAA." -Under Trump the destroyer of useful information in favor of bullshit, CA did not have full complete control over that for its purposes. So it still makes sense as a second source.
And the methane violations big oil releases that it detects will pay for it many times over. Checkmate.
Water vapor is a very effective greenhouse gas, far more effective than CO2.
this is a fucking click-bait hoax..
that's a governmental job. If not then why was it not backed by the gov't.
California is soooo fucked!!!!!
cities going bankrupt, wage to living ratio outta fucking control,
no wonder it was deemed Ungovernmental some time ago..
totally fucked up..
Way to go msmash once again on the cutting edge..
If you think that the M1 and the F35 are state-level projects, you're horribly confused.
No, wait ...
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/1...
Oh. It's all a ruse. I guess it'll be rocket fuel after all.
The feds regulate launches that take place in the US..
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Wikipedia says the Falcon 9 uses liquid oxygen and kerosene.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Unless those clear vehicles are going to automatically run over and kill cows, they're ignoring the ACTUAL source of greenhouse gas emissions. Efficient vehicles are a lie. In fact I even heard a rumor that all the freighters carrying cargo on the ocean make like 10x more CO2 than all the cars in the US combined. Methane is several hundred times more damaging and it comes from cows, of which there are way the hell too many of. THAT is the problem. Make methane capture laws.
The guy was a flippin' moron when he was governor back in the 70s (he never had an honest job - Like Joe Biden he went straight from college to government). He's a trainwreck of higher taxes, more regulations, redistributed wealth, boondoggle projects, and crazy dishonest virtue signalling. As such, this satellite idea of his is just the icing on a rather rancid cake.
Jerry Brown is not on the ballot this November; he'll be gone in January. Just like all his recent environmental bills, he will not be in office to see it implemented. He will claim all the credit for the supposedly positive vision and planning, but some successor of his will be stuck with the bills and all the negative consequences. When there's even less money available for the pensions of teachers, cops, and firemen, some Jerry successor who will get no credit for the satellite or the train or the delta water project will have an even bigger budget hole to fill and will have to raise taxes.
If Jerry Brown had an ounce of integrity, he would have proposed and implemented these things (and paid the political and fiscal prices) WHILE IN OFFICE. He's only in office because Democrats imported millions of ignorant 3rd worlders over the past couple decades, effectively replacing a large portion of the traditional American middle class voters (of all skin colors, it's a cultural not a racial thing). These new voters are used to living in socialist hellholes and bananna republics and are easily swayed by the "free stuff" rhetoric of a clown like Brown. Thus passes freedom.
It's certainly possible for California to design a satellite and pay someone for launch and ground station support services. But I don't see any definition of what they actually expect the satellite to do that couldn't be done cheaper, more easily, and more flexibly with sensor packages mounted on scheduled airliners flying between the state's numerous major airports or black boxes mounted in CHP vehicles.
Frankly, I can't see a lot of evidence that the folks in California have the slightest idea what they are doing with regard to climate and pollution issues once they move beyond the impressive, but decades old efforts, to reduce control/smog in the coastal basins. As Don Henley might have it, they haven't had that spirit there since 1969.
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
Even pretending it wasn't completely illegal to do. How would you possibly measure it? The CO2 emitted for that product?
The total emissions of the country regardless of what the product is? That's just blatantly discriminating against larger countries (obviously you're targeting China). You will tax Americans more than Australians and Canadians? You will tax America at the second highest level in the world behind China?
And you think anyone will vote for your plan?
Based on per capita, then you're just shooting yourself in the foot again considering America is twice China. You want to tax Americans twice what you tax Chinese companies.
And you think anyone will vote for your plan?
Complete and utter garbage plan with no thought at all of the consequences.
You think you know tax havens now. Wait until little islands pop up (or states/cities) exporting billions of dollars of products after greenwashing them under your 'plan'.
So? It's not pollution. The amount of water vapor in the air due to evaporation from the ocean, lakes, rivers... far outstrips anything a rocket could create.
Secondly, water vapor condenses and removes itself from the atmosphere.. I don't see how you think it's a greenhouse gas..
"California Space Force"
Table-ized A.I.
Let's just pile on yet ANOTHER multi-zillion dollar boondoggle!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
YEAH! LAUNCH A SATELLITE (at what CO2 cost?) to prove what we already know.
THAT"LL SHOW CLIMATE CHANGE. MORE STUDY.
Fucking morons.
How would you possibly measure it? The CO2 emitted for that product? impossible.
The total emissions of the country regardless of what the product is? That's just blatantly discriminating against larger countries (obviously you're targeting China). You will tax Americans more than Australians and Canadians? You will tax America at the second highest level in the world behind China?
And you think anyone will vote for your plan?
Based on per capita, then you're just shooting yourself in the foot again considering America is twice China. You want to tax Americans twice what you tax Chinese companies.
And you think anyone will vote for your plan?
Complete and utter garbage plan with no thought at all of the consequences.
Which won't stop EU from parking a satellite over CA...
They don't have to list location, just a number?
What's the bet everyone 'chooses' zero?
People in the USA need to stop fighting amongst themselves. While you left and blue states are going on about who produces more, China is outproducing all the states combined. While the left and right are beating themselves up, Mexican nationalist are invading and taking over the USA. Here is a news flash for you. Mexicans dont like whinney white liberals any more than they like conservative white Republicans. Mexicans like mexicans, Russians like Russians, Chinese support Chinese. Americans need to start liking themselves or we will all be selling out daughters to work in Mexican or Chinese brothels because we a 3rd world has ben power.
Your enemy is not the liberal or conservative. Your enemy is those that want to divide you over bullshit. Divide and conquer worked well to defeat the earth loving first nations, and it is working today. Games the same, names are different.
Well, it is not entirely wrong.
Most military projects are more about subsidizing local industries than creating a defense force.
All those missions in the middle east haven't been about defending the nation. It's more about showing that you "needed" all those toys you bought.
Doesn't really matter. Current congress is using the constitution to wipe their ass with.
The constitution means jack shit if it isn't enforced.
Its especially helpful if it is burnt in the upper atmosphere!
You can blame Reagan for that.
Where are you going to find a good late lawyer in this adminstration?
I‘m from tiny Luxembourg and even we have >60 Satellites.
They're taxing on pollution controls. YOUR reading would make all tarriffs illegal, inclyding the ones from the US Federal government.
They don't measure accidents or pollution or license violations at every place all the time. They just ASK first and then check up at random individual cases. Lying is a crime when you benefit monetarily from it. Its called "Fraud" but I do not expect you to know what that is.
What about Texas?
Whaa, your diesel's consume 8L/100km? I know people who had petrol cars more efficient than that who switched to diesel due to petrol's inefficiency.
What it means is "Someone is saying something that I cannot attack or ridicule because it is a good thing, so I will instead pretend that the REASON why this good thing is being said is because they want to be seen to say it, as this somehow makes saying good things automatically bad".
And lasting 10 years means that it is "just" hundreds of times more effective than CO2. FFS you denier idiots pretend that H2O is a "bigger effect" than CO2 when it comes to denying having to do anything, yet here you are pretending that "bigger effect" is not a thing any more.
Given how poorly it handled RPG attacks in Iraq compared with the British Challenger 2 tanks, I think you're sorely mistaken.
uptil i sAw the bAnk drAft which hAd sAid $4027, i didn't believe ...thAt...my sister wAs trully eArning money in their spAre time on their Apple lAptop.. there sisters roommAte hAd beAn doing this for only About A yeAr And by now pAid the mortgAge on there ApArtment And bought A new peugeot 205 gTi. reAd more At,,,,,,,www.99logic.com
Yes, but the air's ability to hold water is based upon its temperature. Throw as much water into the air as you like, it'll condense out until it hits thermal equilibrium.
So while you're correct, that ball was still foul as fuck.
China has a multiple of the USA's population. If they find their people modern productive jobs they pretty much ought to outproduce the USA. Has nothing in particular to do with the USA being divided.
And the USA is divided over important moral and policy questions for decades now, not mainly over foreign countries.
How is it based on emissions? Your just handwaving. American emitions are the 2nd highest in the world. You think Trump will tax America the most and give all your 'trade partners' a free ride at taxpayer expense? You're delusional.
For example, California is not a signatory. The USA is. Secondly the USA is inviolation of WTO anyway. Canadian softwood, internet gambling being two examples out of several that the USA is ignoring WTO on. Your outrage at the violation there doesn't pass the smell test.
Or is your picking of Reid just cherry picking? CONGRESS did it, YOU claimed democrats did it. DINOs exist, just like RINOs do. But I guess that you don't WANT to know about it at this time, so ignore it.
You have 40M obstinate polluters who laugh at the idea of recycling, refuse to use a bicycle, drive a car anytime they need to go farther than half a mile, and who eat, drink, consume and produce more waste per capita than any other people on the planet, except possibly for other Americans.
How the hell will launching a satellite help with you and your population being pollution-creating gluttons?
Yes, but you need to produce the hydrogen and oxygen, which uses energy. On the other hand, I read somewhere that a typical satellite launch is comparable to 100 cars driving for a year, so almost nothing taken into account the frequency of launches...
That statistic is of course deliberately deceptive. When you include personal and corporate income exemptions, the numbers flip. If you remove military salaries, it flips. Clearly, California running off military installations is a red state welfare.
This is a very expensive way to get a certain company to contribute to a certain corrupt slimeball's re-election campaign. You know, moon beam, who was so corrupt her got recalled from office before the current generation of progressive idiots could read.
Most likely the satellite will be hovering over CA taking pictures for "citizen watch projects".
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Yes, and the DMV licenses you to drive vehicles. That doesn't mean people can't have their own cars.
Ezekiel 23:20
But only California would go to space to raise taxes.
We have to raise the money to pay for the welfare programs in the red states somehow. The alternative is secession, but Californians don't seem to have the heart for it. Shame, because this nation is a farce.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Want to hammer China for their high CO2 emissions?
You keep describing it that way, but in fact, no. We don't want to do that. What we want is to hammer high CO2 emissions, not China. If we tax CO2 emissions, not China, then it's legal. If the manufacturers fail to provide a reasonable measurement of CO2 emissions, then a number will have to be invented. The only reasonable basis for the invention of that number is country of origin, but what will be taxed is the CO2, not the country of origin. The taxes will be levied against the consumer. They should be spent on fixing CO2, but they will probably have to be spent on welfare programs in red states, since they can't pay their way and we have to do it. Goddamn welfare queens... are whole states.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
What about Texas?
Texas is one of the very few red states which "pays its own way", except it doesn't. It only manages that because of the oil industry, which is a massive polluter at every level. Also, it would probably be a blue state by now if not for gerrymandering.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Bitching about "undeserving" people getting "your" money is something that conservatives do. Luckily Californians are all in favor of wealth redistribution from the rich to the poor.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Problem is - you have to treat all products equally.
Nope. You can treat lumber differently from produce or animal products, or SUBs differently from Trucks.
Don't believe me? Go read some customs laws.
And remember, what the Constitution specifically says matters. And in fact, Congress has already consented, such as with automobiles.
Yes, there were other forces, like I mentioned, the decade of lax regulation and corruption. Remember, the problem was in the finance markets, not the reality.
Food literally rotted in warehouses.
Yes, there were other forces, like I mentioned, the decade of lax regulation and corruption. Remember, the problem was in the finance markets, not the reality.
Food literally rotted in warehouses.
Yawn
Noone, because our tanks are so fucking good moron.
Those figures are after the exemptions. California sends a hundred billion more to the federal government than it receives. Texas is the only red state that doesn't take more than it pays, arguably due to dirty oil based revenues.
It really takes a special kind of person to consider an old document as being better at handling new problems than us today. This is how religions start.
We need California more than California needs the others states? Pure, unprocessed Bullcrap!
Any state can easily impose a million percent sales tax, with electronic instant rebate for natively produced goods.
Same as the credit card/not a cash discount 3% surcharges and vice versa.
Maybe he was using Volkswagen diesel mileage?
No brain, no pain.
Do you california nitwits realize you are generating pollutants that cause climate change by launching satellites into orbit?
Circle the wagons and fire inward. Entropy increases without bounds.
> It really takes a special kind of person to consider an old document
No. You are just an arrogant moron with no sense of history and a high opinion of himself just because of the year you were born in.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Yeah sure let's just stay in our little nest here on Earth until we extinct ourselves great plan you fucking genius.
America is reducing it's CO2 faster than anyone else despite your hate-on for the country.
This is despite the mindless hysterics over leaving the Paris agreement.
Now if we are "importing more CO2" then it hardly makes any sense to let China off the hook. Now does it?
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I can't wait to see how badly California botches this. They'll treat it less as a science project and more as a taxpayer welfare giveaway to the connected, just like they do every major government project. It will end up just like their "high-speed" rail boondoggle: billions spent, with no usable results.
That's actually a flat out lie.
Up until 2019 you could write off your state taxes from your fed bills.
On paper they paid more. In reality no.
Watch and see them shit a brick next year when they realize they have to pay their own bills in ca.
And it's going to come out they don't even kick in enough taxes to the fed to pay the 50% of all welfare that ca uses.
they burn kerosene and liquid oxygen.
The pharaohs built the pyramids; Jerry Brown will launch satellites. Let us long remember Jerry Brown. Hail Jerry! Hail Jerry!
You have just described the entire United States Defense budget since 1950, which probably adds up to over $50 trillion squandered, and nothing but misery around the world to show for it. And some very wealthy defense contractors, of course.
At least when California does a public works project, people get some jobs and there isn't a body count in the 100s of thousands.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Says man not living under threat of nuclear death from Cuban-based missile launchers.
You fucking imbecile.
This. California can go ahead and leave the nation as far as most of us are concerned.
They like to talk about science denial there, and yet they suppress and attack science that says that men and women aren't exactly identical, that IQ (general intelligence) is important in determining success in life and that it differs among populations in ways that cannot be explained except by genetics, and of course well documented studies proving that diversity has at best a neutral impact on organizational performance (that it is not, in fact, a strength). Those don't fit the narrative and yet they're all pretty established and repeatable science.
That's the most stupid two non-arguments ever on that subject.
In capitalist USA corporations control the government.
... using money from Volkwagen's legal settlement ...
I guess there's been downsizing at that company: there's only one "Volk" left.
I don't see how he thinks water vapor is a gas of any kind :)
In capitalist USA corporations control the government.
You need to spam a bit more and push your lies off your first page...
Science conducted by those with an agenda is NOT science.
California doesn't import water, fresh or otherwise. Unless you count Perrier.
The various emission standards actually apply based on fleet metrics.
California, you'll note, is allowed to set its standards and Congress consented.
They'll have to cancel the train project just to pay for a tiny portion of a satellite with launch. Either that, or they'll just keep taxing the middle class so they keep moving out. Nothing wrong with that logic right?
Life is in a state of dynamic equilibrium, it both blows and sucks
Sure, but that's not the question. California cannot say "South Korea, because your emissions are higher, you have to pay this tariff on each vehicle, and Germany, you have to have this standard for emissions". It's equal across all - which means, punishing individual countries or companies via tariffs is essentially impossible. It's the industry as a whole or nothing.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
So, drinkypoo, why are you ignoring the $80 billion in state and local tax credits given to California when you claim they give money to other states?
Why are you moving the goalposts by now adding 'pollution' as a magical negative to Texas?
Why are you talking about gerrymandering?
It's almost as if your argument is bullshit, and you know it, so you are trying to change the topic to anything else...
California could not afford this. Most of their revenue is subsidized by federal copyright laws, enforced on all the states by the U.S. government.
How? Theyâ(TM)re mostly the ones with the guns.
c6gunner you're horribly confused thinking you're apk in your impersonating apk https://linux.slashdot.org/com... along with altering slashdotter's words after apk challenged you to show you do better work and you couldn't after you tried to mock him first https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .
More faggot shit coming out of the valley. Paid for by Daddy Rothschild.
Climate Change is a hoax based on politically and financially motivated scientific models and data that is spun to serve the interests of the elite. Climate Change will not be satisfied until we are desolate and dying. Climate Change goals include reducing the population through abortion, disease-causing food, air, and water, prescription drugs, and vaccines.
You do know that "gas" is just a state of matter?
1. Post WW2 when veterans decided California was nicer than [insert where they came from here].
2. When a ton of people descended upon California during and after "the Summer of Love" aka hippie invasion.
3. The state and federal governments screwing up immigration epically.
Add in the "food pyramid" effect - basically the bottom of society is a lot larger than the top.
CO2 isn't pollution either.
For pollution see all the stuff that is man-made that has been introduced into the atmosphere.
It's not science, just beliefs and opinions of so called experts.
Fighting climate change, is not green or good for our planet, there are many negative consequences, in fact, CO2 is greening the planet, CO2 is good and natural.
So now in addition to losing objective journalism where media was supposed to be objective and we are now all used to media outlets having inherent bias we'll have science with bias also - where the mission is to "prove this" instead of "find truth." *sigh*
Bill Gates is a communist -- he's just more equal than the rest of us.
Acidification of the oceans and greenhouse gases as a result of coal and petroleum derivatives are destructive.
Lame ass old light water reactors with low efficiency and very high cost to build makes them less attractive.
Enter Thorium reactors where more than 2% of the fuel is actually burned up, low pressure, high temp fluoride salt. Much lower cost than to build and run coal plants.
Time for Gen IV power plants.
Google it.
Uh.. it is a gas... Fog is not water vapor.. Clouds are not water vapor.. Water vapor is the gaseous form of water that you cannot see.
During that time they had a RWNJ opposition merely opposing EVERYTHING (see the blocking of a supreme court judge, how can they do that if the Republicans did not own the senate?), and they had enough that they could stop everything unless Obama just made an executive order.
You MAGA morons really don't care what reality says, do you?
Hell if your asinine claims were correct, you'd be able to post more than just Reid as the voter.
So, drinkypoo, why are you ignoring the $80 billion in state and local tax credits given to California when you claim they give money to other states?
I'm not. Even with that, California is still one of the states that gives the most out and gets the least back. It's about the net, stupid.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Kinda fucked your argument there.
somehow people keen voting for retards
Mist of the pickups trucks driven as cars are older models. My friend just replaced his old one with a 23mpg one. The old one was an 8mpg pig. That's about 15km/4.4liters 3.5km/l about 100km/30 liters.
Luckily Californians are all in favor of wealth redistribution from the rich to the poor.
What???? Nothing lucky or ideal about 'wealth redistribution'. It is entirely one thing to have a progressive tax system, but another to have a 'wealth redistribution'. Likewise, it is one thing to have spending on say a single pay medical system, BUT, even then, it should be limited to contagious diseases (which helps all of society), perhaps accidents, peds, general surgs (appendix, etc), pregnancy, OB, etc. IOW, it should take care of basics and esp anything that can be spread through society. What it should NOT include are things like Cancer, Diabetes, old age, plastic surgery, etc. For that, let ppl get their own insurance.
All in all, the gov should not be dealing with such things. It should in general be limited to the point where it helps society, not takes over society.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
If you think that these were not fuck-up by CONgress who ARE STATE-LEVEL, you're horribly confused.
The DOD wanted the M1 shutdown during 2008 onwards until 2014. They wanted to enhance the daylights out of it, in particular, to automate more so that it only requires 2-3. In addition, they wanted to change from a pure turbine drive, to a turbine/gen-electric drive so that electric weapons could be added down the road (esp. railguns, which we need).
As to the F-35, that is a PURE cluster-fuck that should have died. L-mart pushed their CONgress critters (including mine, who is Coffman). to keep it going. And the idea of it now replacing the warthog is a joke. That is truly turning our pilots into cannon fodder.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
For example, it is lawful for Michigan to require food labels that specifically identify certain animal parts, if they are present in the product, because the state law applies to food produced in Michigan as well as food imported from other states and foreign countries; the state law would violate the Commerce Clause if it applied only to imported food or if it was otherwise found to favor domestic over imported products. Likewise, California law requires milk sold to contain a certain percentage of milk solids that federal law does not require, which is allowed under the Dormant Commerce Clause doctrine because California's stricter requirements apply equally to California-produced milk and imported milk and so does not discriminate against or inappropriately burden interstate commerce.[2]
Just as I have said. If the tax is applied against ALL CONSUMED GOODS/SERVICES, then it is fine. The only ones that it is not applied to, is anything made/services in CA, and exported, would not be subject to that tax, which makes perfect sense.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Are you insane? They are not taxes, they are requirements for labeling.
Are you just going to label the CO2? Are you going to tax everything at the same rate regardless of the CO2 content? No dumb fuck you want to discriminate.
I come up with something more like 90 cars:
> 474600 kilograms / (840 kilograms/m^3) / (8 liters/100 kilometers) / 22000 kilometers / 3.56 = 90.17
(F9 1.1, more but I don't know how much for F9FT...)
But... When we're talking about impact, we're going to just focus on the direct amount of non-oxidizer fuel used in the first stage, but not the massive logistics chains involved, the cryogenics, etc? I agree the impacts aren't *too bad* but I think you're low by an order of magnitude and maybe two. The cost and environmental impact of rocket launches is not in the kerosene used.
It really takes a special kind of person to consider an old document as being better at handling new problems than us today.
Perhaps. But I trust Jefferson and Madison a lot more than I trust Trump and Clinton.
In which countries has healthcare 'taken over society'?
Why do you feel the need to constantly make stuff up?
Progressive tax system IS wealth redistribution.
Why the constant need to show you lack of understanding on every topic?
Single payer healthcare shouldn't cover cancer or diabetes? Are you a fucking idiot?
Seems the mods are kind of working, all your complete crap about CO2 taxes was all modded down to zero. But why wasn't your big obvious lie also modded down?
I guess you got lucky this time. How long until the next one?
Theres a pool going, try and post one before the end of your day.
2'nd paragraph said it all:
For example, it is lawful for Michigan to require food labels that specifically identify certain animal parts, if they are present in the product, because the state law applies to food produced in Michigan as well as food imported from other states and foreign countries; the state law would violate the Commerce Clause if it applied only to imported food or if it was otherwise found to favor domestic over imported products. Likewise, California law requires milk sold to contain a certain percentage of milk solids that federal law does not require, which is allowed under the Dormant Commerce Clause doctrine because California's stricter requirements apply equally to California-produced milk and imported milk and so does not discriminate against or inappropriately burden interstate commerce.[2]
Just as I have said. If the tax is applied against ALL CONSUMED GOODS/SERVICES, then it is fine. The only ones that it is not applied to, is anything made/services in CA, and exported, would not be subject to that tax, which makes perfect sense.
So you want to label where the product comes from. OK. So what? How will that change the CO2?
Or do you want to tax everything the same? Again so what? How will that change anything but make EVERYTHING more expensive regardless of origin?
Likely you want to charge different rates based on some magical criteria you just haven't thought up yet (just to punish China). Guess what stupid, that's the illegal part that makes your whole plan idiotic. And specifically why it doesn't match the examples you are trying to use.
How does state level congress tell the fed's what tanks to make and where to make them?
Take your meds again and have a time out for a few days.
Take your America hating ass back to mexico then.
We'll launch our own satellite with blackjack and hookers!
Take your America hating ass back to mexico then.
Odds are good that my family has been here longer than yours, since my Mexican ancestors crossed into Texas from Mexico in the 1850s. Unless, of course, you're descended from puritans, who would be very disappointed in you.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
"Someone else does something I think is stupid, so if we do something stupid, but slightly less so, then it's OK".
REALLY?
it's not "California's Money", anymore than the money you may pay on taxes is "Trump's money".
Yeah, but when you make that statement, the Whiney liberals declare you racist.
233 Billion unfunded CalPERS pension liabilities.
1.3 Trillion bond debt that CA owes.
Sounds like a great idea Governor.
Yes, I figured out my dumb mistake there almost right after posting my comment, then wondered if there was any way to re-edit or delete that post, but didn't find one, so now I'm embarrassed.
In capitalist USA corporations control the government.
Yes, I made a stupid mistake posting that comment.
In capitalist USA corporations control the government.
We also believe that ACs are full of shit. So there's that too.
This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
What a fabulous argument! Cogent points! Well articulated! Excellent citations, and that BRILLIANT insult at the end! My goodness your mommy must be proud of her little basement dweller! You should ask for extra cookies.
This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
At what point does the general population accept that it is part of the problem and step up and do something?
The average person _still_ buys that pool, that SUV, and that air conditioner. That person still doesn't recycle, demands maximum product packaging, and throws away otherwise good food because 'leftovers ... ick'. And those habits are passed on through the generations so that it is absolutely no surprise that when those offspring move in to industry they carry with them little of an eco-friendly mindset as they sip their bottled water and work at maximizing profits.
There doesn't need to be government involvement or the staggering tax burden of state-owned satellite to address the 'problem of climate change'. What is needed is for each individual to step up and commit to the efficient use of our resources, to be less wasteful, and teach our children to do the same. Angry that some company is profiting and the expense of the environment? Then stop buying their products!
If you are willing to defer to someone else to solve the problem or insist that someone else take care of it, say 'government', then you are part of the problem not the solution.
"Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.