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The New Yorker on Linus Torvalds (newyorker.com)
Linus Torvalds announced on Sunday that he was sorry for how he treated the community over the years. Torvalds, 48, said he planned to make some changes to how he conducted himself, and on that part, he said he would be taking some time off from Linux kernel development work. The New Yorker has published a story on Torvalds today in which it notes that it reached out to Torvalds days before he made the big announcement. From the story, which may be paywalled for some readers: Torvalds's decision to step aside came after The New Yorker asked him a series of questions about his conduct for a story on complaints about his abusive behavior discouraging women from working as Linux-kernel programmers. In a response to The New Yorker, Torvalds said, "I am very proud of the Linux code that I invented and the impact it has had on the world. I am not, however, always proud of my inability to communicate well with others -- this is a lifelong struggle for me. To anyone whose feelings I have hurt, I am deeply sorry."
Torvalds's response was conveyed by the Linux Foundation, which supports Linux and other open-source programming projects and paid Torvalds $1.6 million in annual compensation as of 2016. The foundation said that it supported his decision and has encouraged women to participate but that it has little control over how Torvalds runs the coding process. "We are able to have varying degrees of impact on these outcomes in newer projects," the statement said. "Older more established efforts like the Linux kernel are much more challenging to influence."
Linux's elite developers, who are overwhelmingly male, tend to share their leader's aggressive self-confidence. There are very few women among the most prolific contributors, though the foundation and researchers estimate that roughly ten per cent of all Linux coders are women. "Everyone in tech knows about it, but Linus gets a pass," Megan Squire, a computer-science professor at Elon University, told me, referring to Torvalds's abusive behavior. "He's built up this cult of personality, this cult of importance."
Torvalds's response was conveyed by the Linux Foundation, which supports Linux and other open-source programming projects and paid Torvalds $1.6 million in annual compensation as of 2016. The foundation said that it supported his decision and has encouraged women to participate but that it has little control over how Torvalds runs the coding process. "We are able to have varying degrees of impact on these outcomes in newer projects," the statement said. "Older more established efforts like the Linux kernel are much more challenging to influence."
Linux's elite developers, who are overwhelmingly male, tend to share their leader's aggressive self-confidence. There are very few women among the most prolific contributors, though the foundation and researchers estimate that roughly ten per cent of all Linux coders are women. "Everyone in tech knows about it, but Linus gets a pass," Megan Squire, a computer-science professor at Elon University, told me, referring to Torvalds's abusive behavior. "He's built up this cult of personality, this cult of importance."
I've had a personal epiphany
oh yeah and there may possibly also be a story about me and this subject coming out in a major publication in a few days too
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
Being anti-social and lacking empathy doesn't make you a better coder, it makes you an asshole. You can be both; a good coder and a good person. Being deficient in a healthy human emotion shouldn't be a badge of honor.
I work in medicine, and while many fail at empathy, at least there is a focus on it.
I hate fat people.
With something as important as the kernel, only the best effort can be accepted. His passion is fine. No one has a right to not be offended.
The name TorValds has possibly appropos meanings in Norwegian and German. In Norwegian it means "many threats" or "much daring" according to a raw text translation. (presumably it's more nuanced and related to Thor if you are Norwegian).
In German it text translated to a "Array of building openings" or a "forest of Doors". Which I think sounds like a description of "Windows" on an office building.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
It seems more and more certain that Linus has indeed fallen to one of the "honeypots" and is being blackmailed.
I hope nothing bad happens to Linus. Other lives have been ruined by the suspected group of people.
I always though Linus was a bit of a douche bag, but really, a lot of intelligent people who achieve "fame" or success relatively young are. I think the same personality type that leads to the dedication needed to create something as important as Linux, also tends to create less than stellar human beings.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
So? Linux has likely become successful exactly because of the behaviour of the developers. There's no 'fluffing' anything, it's simply good enough to go in, or shit and shouldn't be in. Linux has succeeded, and is in great shape and this has been the way since it started and likely the 'behaviour' has contributed to that directly.
If that's what it takes for this to keep succeeding, should it change? Probably not.
I'm quite sure Linus is an equal opportunity asshole. If people have trouble with his management style, perhaps a public forum isn't the correct setting to discuss it. Also, as stated in the article, many of these people are paid to contribute to the kernel. Being an asshole at the top does him quite well, because he can manage the self interests of all these huge contributors and not let any one company's priorities take over and ruin the whole thing. If Linux gets too feely, all a company has to do is put in a diversity coder and they can run roughshod over the stated project goals.
I'd like to see at least a couple of proofs of this egregiously dubious statement.
fuck you, nerd
... I have to ask, does this mean you can suggest women are more influenced by abusive behavior, and that's not sexist?
Plenty of people out there see any sort of strong self-confidence as "jerk behavior." In fact the more insecure the individual, the more hopelessly assholeish your confidence will appear to them.
Summary is confusing. It's talking about Linus's straight-forward or aggressive behavior and is then talks about women being discouraged from working on the kernel, as if those are related. But is there actually sexism that has been demonstrated within the kernel dev community, or is it just implied that women are less capable of working in high-stress or tense situations and that men need to act more fluffy?
That implication sounds more sexist than how the kernel dev community has operated.
Of course it's somehow unthinkable to draw the conclusions that fewer women work on the kernel because fewer women want to work on the kernel.
Do you think that, maybe, people with anti-social psychological makeups are drawn to a field where they don't really need to talk to anyone to accomplish something?
Most people would consider me to be a nice guy. Maybe a little off in one way or another, but I'm affable. That doesn't mean that I *like* to talk to people. I'm working from home today. I'm going to write code for nine hours straight without talking to another human being (besides occasionally looking at /. ) I'm perfectly fine with this.
I work with marketing, services and support people who can't stand not talking. They constantly come around and talk to other people about stuff, not necessarily work related. I don't mind it, but I'd rather not.
I work with people who come off as jerks if you would meet them in passing, but I understand their mindset. They don't like talking to people. It's not that they hate you, they would rather not interact with you.
This is the central disconnect, I think. People who are - I guess you can call them introverts - would simply rather not talk to other people. It's not that they don't like women, or minorities, or any other specific category of people. They don't like talking to *people* All inclusive. That doesn't make it OK. That doesn't make them not jerks. But understanding their mindset is important in dealing with them.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
Itâ(TM)s sad that a deluded, middle aged man who believes heâ(TM)s a woman can bully people.
Why must SJWs infect everything?
1) He created the Linux kernel, which is one of the most essential pieces of software in computing today. Everything else sits on an operating system, which is the thing which interfaces with the hardware.
2) He created a wholly new management method and workflow, for this open source, distributed development process.
Casually brushing these two points aside, like he's some unremarkable CEO, doesn't do the man's achievements justice.
Once things are created, people take them for granted, like a kernel or a country.
Of course it's women
It's hilarious that hardly anyone cares thst he was mean to men, it's the WOMEN that must be coddled.
This is obviously a patronizing move, but "progressive" ppl are stupid, so they can't see that
Linux's elite developers, who are overwhelmingly male, tend to share their leader's aggressive self-confidence. There are very few women among the most prolific contributors, though the foundation and researchers estimate that roughly ten per cent of all Linux coders are women.
So women are the same as men, and if you don't think so, you are a knuckle dragging sexist.
On the other hand, women are so different from men that they bring magical special goodness to a project. So we need to do whatever we can to bring them in.
Linus didn't "build up this cult of personality, this cult of importance", he actually built one of the most important pieces of software on the planet. People respect and accept his behavior because he delivers. Nobody ever forced anybody to work with Linus.
If you don't like someone, don't work with them. If you don't like a company, don't buy their products. If you don't like who an open source project is run, fork the project and do better. Stop intruding into other people's business.
It's a choice I exercise frequently.
And by all available, reasonably hard facts, it is because women in general want to become engineers significantly less often than men. Stop complaining, let women decide what they want to do in life and accept that! And no, it is not discrimination, harassment or "the patriarchy". It is just that women are fully capable human beings that can make their own decisions on what they want to do in life.
As a result, you will have significantly less female contributors in any larger tech project, whether in leadership position or more hands-on position. Again, stop complaining about this, it is by choice and it actually shows that women these days make their own decisions regarding what career they want. Implying that all these women that decide not to go into engineering are weak, oppressed little children that cannot make their own decisions or run away crying as soon as some hasher words are used (as is frequently done by "feminists") is one of the most misogynistic and repulsive things I know.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
No, that's a totally false statement. Neither of the traits — neither individually nor together — are a prerequisites to being an asshole, nor are sufficient to be one.
There are empathic assholes — using their perception of your emotions to their own ends. There are also nice introverts — you just have to communicate with them explicitly, rather than expect them to understand you via unspoken clues.
... and formal logic was an optional course in your premed program, so you never took it, because the TA was a nerd... Maybe, you shouldn't be passing judgements on these (nonexistent) "tech-bros"? Especially, if your primary source of information about them is the New Yorker?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Does he reject code written by women ? Probably .... if it's bad code!. Does he know if a male or female wrote it ? Only based on the submitter's email address which can easily be faked or changed I would presume.
Yup, I'm happy to be an idiot that's spent tens of thousands of hours contributing to various open source projects. I'm glad there are thousands of other people that feel it's more important to contribute to society than acting like a greedy asshole. I will remind you that linus did work for free for many years before linux foundation was created to support linus. I don't agree with how linus treats people or his poor communication skills, but he earned his position. Very few programmers have made such a big contribution. Even though I hate GIT and curse it daily, the work he's done since the early 90's is why he deserves that salary. I remember using slackware and was lucky enough to see linux grow. Compare linus to say steve jobs, Jobs was a bigger asshole and couldn't code himself out of a paper bag!
I know quite a few female engineers and some scientists. None of them have a problem with being called out when they screw up. All of them do it to others as well. And all of them can very well distinguish between a personal insult and language directed at their work but not at them. I don't think any of them would have any problem with the style of Linus or the kernel core team.
Incidentally, I had some interactions with the core Linux team from some bug reports I made and I found them to be very focused, but in no way arrogant or insulting or the like. They just have a lot to do and a lot of responsibility and really want to get the job done well. I fully approve of that attitude.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
I hate the duality. Essentially, the lie.
On one hand, we're told women are intelligent, not emotional, not moody, not timid afraid things, that jump at shadows, faint at loud noises, and the like.
The next, we're told that what men will put up with, including SOMETIMES obnoxious behaviour, scares women away. Makes them afraid to contribute. Causes them more stress.
It can't be both, ladies. You can't be "just like men" and at the same time "entirely not like men". You can't think precisely like men, but then think better/differently then men when it is convenient.
Do you think men are afraid of challenge? Unable to cope? Well, most of the people Linus yells at *are men*, yet they're still there! Coding away! Sure, some have left, but from the threads I've seen? Good. GOOD.
I get the feeling that in these modern times, NO ONE, EVER, should EVER EVER feel bad. Oh no, feeling bad is just -- why, it's just wrong, it is!
One thing historically attributed to females is that they're NEVER EVER wrong. That they can't take criticism. That they require eternal, ever lasting external validation, just to feel happy.
Yet, what are we seeing here? The precise, same thing. Don't EVER tell a woman her code sucks. Don't EVER yell at her (via email, none the less!) if she isn't listening to that criticism. Don't EVER criticize, how dare you, HOW DARE YOU!
From the villain saddling the world with Windoz — and actively sabotaging compatibility with other people's software (DR-DOS, Samba), perception of Bill Gates has been gradually rising over the past 20 years — even on Slashdot, where the supposed "nerds" really ought to know better.
And now a very personal attack on Linux and Linus (if you can even separate the two) — who, along with the BSDs and GNU have been providing the computing world with the alternatives.
If New Yorker is not partaking of the Gates' PR campaign, they are leaving money on the table...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Current social norms assume that diversity is universally beneficial for any organization working on any project. While it is obviously true for any human-facing organization, it is less clear that infrastructure projects like Linux would benefit. While diversity can be beneficial, its not without its drawbacks and costs that should be considered. For example, uniformity makes it easier to standardize or build consensus. Diversity can lead to increase of in-group formation, politicing, and turf wars.
The question that should be objectively examined, but is likely impossible to do so in a current political climate, is whether increasing diversity of the Linux contributors would lead to a better Linux kernel. Empirically, merit-based approach worked well up to this point and it isn't clear that it should be replaced by diversity-based approach. It is conceivable that all-white, all-male, all-antisocial, all-hostile group of kernel developers would produce the best possible kernel.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. — George Carlin
In corporate America, so much of being part of a business involves learning to suffer fools. In some way I am envious that, for this little small corner, someone gets to run the experiment of what happens if you stop playing the participation trophy game and refuse to sugar coat things to idiots when they do something really wrong.
But, it's one thing to tell people they're wrong and wasting your time bluntly. It's another to rip someone a new asshole, making sure they know you think they're being an idiot, which is very much Torvalds' style. I'm sure most people have met someone who rules by fear rather than leadership. These overly-emotional assholes are often fools themselves, but Linus is the rare form of asshole who happens to be smart and have solid logic behind the emotion. That makes me think twice about it, but doesn't exempt him from criticism for shitty leadership. I'm glad he's acknowledged the err of his ways -- there's a lot of room for him to improve while still offering blunt efficiency.
There is no need to be a dick in order not to talk to other people.
Absolutely! Which is why at the end of my post I said:
That doesn't make them not jerks. But understanding their mindset is important in dealing with them.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
I knew this was a hit piece!
Please go look at who's behind the sadistic COC , yes the feminazi troll who caused Linus to fall on his sword: Coraline Ada Ehmke, , she's a real peach!
- a fully signed up member of the patriarchy.
That was before the age of Codes of Conduct. Now the squeaky wheel not only gets the grease, but gets the presumption of wrongdoing on your part because they were ever squeaking in the first place.
Women are more easily shamed into submission. Why do you think "slut shaming" works, while "cad shaming" doesn't? Testosterone makes men more likely to fight back and even kill in the face of abuse. It's pure biology.
This is also why women in combat and combat-like situations is problematic. Aside from the weaker musculature and bone structure, the aggression from testosterone is often what makes men able and willing to fight hard.
Men have been in charge of the nukes for as long as they've been invented—ever since men themselves invented and built them. So, what could your point possibly be?
Women are literally untested as far as being in charge of the nukes go, and I'm not so sure they'd be better at it—females (of virtually every specious) are known to become emotionally (read: dangerously) aggressive when they feel their "children" are being threatened. The endless complaint that women have about men is that they are too emotionless. Men also tend to be more sentimental, and that leads to fierce loyalty (something needed among warriors and hunting parties), whereas women much less so. You know who I want over the button? Someone who is cold and calculating, but also sentimental and loyal.
And, hot headed? They called it the "cold war" for a reason, jackass.
Your position is ridiculous, and totally unfounded.
. . . and promote and value excellent contributions, or you can care more about someones' feelz above all else. Linux just chose the latter, initiating a well-known downward spiral of complaining and inevitable technical stagnation that's been seen many times before once these CoCs are introduced into open source projects. At the end of the day, these two things are mutually exclusive, thanks to the everything-offends-me-and-if you-don't-agree-you're-a-misogynist-racist SJW brigade. This is the logical conclusion of weaponizing CoCs which target straight white males from the get-go, particularly those authored by people who hate the idea of meritocracy.
Guess what? The real world doesn't give a *fuck* how you feel, especially in unforgiving disciplines like engineering and tech. Life ain't fair, and 99%+ of the people contributing to Linux don't give two shits about social justice one way or the other. Open source is *not* a social movement! Those people are there to code -- well -- and because they're adults they can handle a rant or two every one in awhile and even a nasty, well-deserved public undressing, and they don't need one of these batshit-crazy CoCs to tell them how to behave. The simple addition of "Don't be an asshole" would've addressed the specific concern without throwing the baby out with the bathwater while giving power to those who don't necessarily deserve it.
My first reaction to the whole "Linus needs to change!" "Okay I'm gonna go into the mountains and train" was that we're wrong about what the problem (and the solution) is, since we have him doing things he shouldn't be.
In fact, anything that ISN'T technical, isn't directly focused on the craft, can be insulated away from him.
Consider TV shows. What do companies and shadow orgs always do with their scientist character? They're sheltered away, safely, just them and their work. They're not selling the potatoes, they're not at the reception desk, they're not giving presentations about the...
Actually, I think Honey I Shrunk The Kids opened up on this exact subject. Or it was the sequel, whatever.
so that number will include repetitions and other people's craps, and as such it does not accurately measure the magnitude of the defendant's crime. I believe that the inquisition should be repeated with more scrupulous zeal.
And remember, even though he says that he's sorry, we're still talking about a male here, therefore he's not to be trusted: he could start again uttering mild profanities at any time.
Frankly, I think this has very little to do with women or any other underrepresented group. It's mostly about a small group of loudmouths who believe that they know what's best for everybody. It's a power-play for no other reason than self-gratification.
I've had the privilege of working under female leadership on multiple occasions. Their immunity various complaints that men have to be wary of allows them to be blunt, direct, strict and extremely demanding. It was eye-opening and refreshing. I have a feeling female Linus would just laugh at all of this.
Obviously the LF didn't magically conjur up this money. It's given to them by many corporations who benefit from Linux and want to ensure its continued development. They could pay Linus directly, but the indirect route avoids allegations of bias and favoritism towards specific companies.
Bottom line: create something that multiple companies benefit from, something that they could not easily fork and continue in-house, and money will flow your way. Just keep in mind that 1.6 million is a mere fraction of the money made with Linux based products. How much would your product deliver?
Looks like Post Modernism's disgusting tentacles have wrapped its arms around the Linux Foundation and Linus himself. There is a lot of money floating around the Linux Foundation today and I think he was strong armed by these progressive Post Modernists.
Also, there's a difference between doing something bad to someone, and merely not living up to their expectations.
It seems the more success and influence people attain, the more vulnerable they are to others' judgement.
For example, if you see a famous person in public and you ask for their autograph, and they refuse, that can start a chain reaction reputation of them being an "asshole" because they had the audacity to not live up to your expectations.
Linux Torvalds is an arrogant asshole. But, as usual, everyone is trotting out the same old bullshit "We ain't got enuff wimmins! He be scarrin' away all the wimmins!"
No. Just fucking no. Just fuck off with your stupid bullshit.
He is an asshsole to *EVERYONE*. He is insulting and demeaning to *EVERYONE*. Not just men, not just women. Everyone.
If you're terribly upset because Linux Torvalds was mean to you, not in person but *IN A FUCKING E-MAIL* then the real problem is you, not him.
I'm a BSD bigot, the Linux camp's little squabbles do not affect me — though I do find them amusing at times.
But this is not (only) about Linus Torvalds himself — the free software's supposed "bro culture" is targeted. (The dateless nerds turning to computers while the jocks were out there getting busy, are shamed for "rejecting" women. Ha-ha...)
Having cleaned up Bill Gates' own image — declaring him a legend the campaign(s) have switched onto offensive. Not only is Microsoft's founder the nicest man you can meet, you see, his competitors are sexist bigots (and anti-social assholes) too!
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I'm wondering if this is a harbinger of death for the kernel. You don't approve my patches ? You must be a sexist! Okay will allow this one memory leak so you don't hash tag me on twitter. Ever notice how many 'articles' by news sites just report what somebody tweeted? Why investigate when you can just be troll on twitter.
I think you're confusing non-profit and charity. Non-profit simply means that it doesn't have a legal obligation to maximize profits for its shareholders.
Frankly, I think this has very little to do with women or any other underrepresented group. It's mostly about a small group of loudmouths who believe that they know what's best for everybody. It's a power-play for no other reason than self-gratification.
I've had the privilege of working under female leadership on multiple occasions. Their immunity various complaints that men have to be wary of allows them to be blunt, direct, strict and extremely demanding. It was eye-opening and refreshing. I have a feeling female Linus would just laugh at all of this.
A female Linus would be *able* to laugh at this. A female Linus would be held up as being direct, strong, and so on for doing the exact same things.
Part of me can't help but think that all this has done is hand certain types of people a thermonuclear bomb any time they want to use it. As I said in the previous thread on this, if anyone thinks that people of *NON-PROTECTED CLASS* won't be scared of criticizing any member of *PROTECTED CLASS* they haven't been paying attention. This will be even truer if someone who is a known hard-core SJW type is involved. Criticizing them would be taking your career in your hands, something to be avoided
I was raised on the command line, bitch
"Nemo me impune lacesset"
Not on this one it didn't.
"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
In fairness, there's both. Not that we went about doing it, but it happened. That's what we do with celebrity in modern days.
Elon Musk, anyone? Steve Jobs?
Those are great examples not of cults, but of people who have actually delivered some pretty amazing things, in large part because they also assembled great teams of people who put in years of backbreaking work to make everything happen.
There are people who admire Musk and Jobs and Linus purely as people - but it's important to remember THOSE ARE NOT GENERALLY THE PEOPLE WHO WORK WITH THEM. They are basically groupies, admiring from afar, maybe in a cultish way but completely distinct from the people who actually work with these figures.
It's important to add those context because the people who have worked on Linux are not part of any cult that admire one person, but they like Linux the system and want to help it be even better. That is very distinct from any cult of personality.
Anyone who works with a charismatic technical leader like Jobs or Musk or Linus are not cultists, because of the inherent pragmatism required to deliver technical products.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Looks like it. Maybe he also though that his creation could float successfully without him for quite a while even while under attack by these retrogrades, and if so, I think he is right. Even if these people manage to destroy the kernel in the next 20 years or so, they will not destroy the Unix API and most FOSS software is not tied to Linux specifically. Things that are (think, for example, the systemd atrocity) are of no or negative value generally anyways.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
For-profit companies do not have a legal obligation to maximize profits for its shareholders. That is just a myth.
Not-for-Profit are actually very close to a for-profit. However there is different tax rules, and depending on what you are doing they are stipulations on what you can and cannot due. for example a Hospital which is a not-for-profit cannot refuse to treat patients based on their ability to pay for services.
But they may still make excess revenue, which can go to leadership or buying new buildings, like a for profit-company.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
We will see. Even if Linux has a lot of institutional support, it can still be forked successfully by a dozen competent and dedicated people that want no part of this disgusting nonsense.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
I agree. The "think of the women" argument is just a smokescreen. This is about power, plain and simple and it is by people that want power without having done anything to merit it. As they cannot get it in any legitimate or honorable way, they try to steal it. Unfortunately, they seem to have success with that.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
You have to hate women to compare their anatomy to Poettering.
If you swear and get angry, you're misogynistic, if you don't agree, you're misogynistic. Women don't swear or get angry and if anyone in the workplace gets angry, all women will quit.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Hospital which is a not-for-profit cannot refuse to treat patients based on their ability to pay for services.
That's not true. While a non-profit hospital must, like any hospital, accept emergency patients, they may transfer them as soon as they are stable, and there's no obligation to treat anyone otherwise.
In the Houston medical system, the non-profit hospitals are generally the most expensive an cater wealthier patients. Never been sure why it worked out that way, but I'd guess it's because they use gross profits to make the hospital more posh, rather than returning them to owners.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
“Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.”
Albert Einstein
If you're terribly upset because Linux Torvalds was mean to you, not in person but *IN A FUCKING E-MAIL* then the real problem is you, not him.
No, the real problem is that he was unnecessarily "an asshole" in email.
Remember, if you wouldn't say something to someone's face in person, it's not somehow acceptable to say it online either because you have the "safety" of anonymity.
I agree that the whole "he's scaring away women" is overplayed, but being an asshole is something that we men need to stop condoning as well.
Hospital which is a not-for-profit cannot refuse to treat patients based on their ability to pay for services.
That's not true. While a non-profit hospital must, like any hospital, accept emergency patients, they may transfer them as soon as they are stable, and there's no obligation to treat anyone otherwise.
Strictly speaking, that's not true universally true either. At a Federal level, this law is tied to receiving Medicare funding. Virtually all hospitals do, and thus virtually all hospitals are subject to the mandate, but Federal Law cannot directly require this without an interstate commerce tie (or at least, that hasn't been challenged that way in court). One could make a case for it, but a stronger (and in my mind more equitable and moral) suggestion would be for States to require this directly -- and have them apply it to all hospitals as a matter of public policy.
I'm an EMT-B, FWIW... although I don't work as one. I've definitely seen the effects of overstuffed ERs though.
Hire a Linux system administrator, systems engineer,
I like (many) men and dislike some men. I don't dislike men in general.
I like meritocracy, but it's not an ultimate good. Being a decent person figures in there too.
When I lived in Houston, there was 1 hospital that, in practice, accepted everyone (LBJ). It was also the only Class-1 trauma center (a fortunate coincidence). The non-profits were posh, and would aggressively get rid of you if you didn't seem likely to afford them - they actually ship people from their ER to LBJ once they were stabilized.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Having founded and run an actual company with actual employees for 15 years, I both agree and disagree with the above post. I agree with the premise that a manager should not try to be a friend to his or her employees. It's not that sort of relationship.
I disagree that it's always necessary to be "blunt". It's always necessary to be clear and decisive, but that can be done politely and professionally. Very occasionally, it's necessary to ratchet it up a notch... but only occasionally and not on a regular basis.
The company I ran was profitable and had very happy customers and employees and extremely low turnover. Treating people well actually makes financial sense. If people get annoyed and quit, the expense to a company is very high.
Wow. Youâ(TM)re absolutely deranged; itâ(TM)s a wonder you posted that anonymously.
I think you're confusing non-profit and charity. Non-profit simply means that it doesn't have a legal obligation to maximize profits for its shareholders.
Non-profit do NOT have shareholders or private owners, nobody can own any piece of a non-profit. While non-profits can earn a surplus that income must be reinvested back into the non-profit.
I don't think Torvalds was misogynistic, nor do I think anyone is claiming he was. I think they were just claiming he was too abrasive for a professional working environment. The word "misogyny" or anything derived from it doesn't appear anywhere in the New Yorker article.
For whatever reason, the New Yorker articles quotes a couple of women, but there have been plenty of guys who've gotten fed up with Linus's abrasiveness and moved on.
Non-profit simply means that it doesn't have a legal obligation to maximize profits for its shareholders.
I'd be interested to know where you got that idea. I assume you mean incorporated companies since you reference shareholders, but even corporations have no such legal obligation. If someone wants to invest in a money losing business they are free to do so. In fact, lots of investors put money into companies that prioritize perceived social value over profit.
I do not block ads. I do block third party scripts.
How they had the foresight to write the story before the events occurred.
I don't think Torvalds was misogynistic, nor do I think anyone is claiming he was. I think they were just claiming he was too abrasive for a professional working environment. The word "misogyny" or anything derived from it doesn't appear anywhere in the New Yorker article.
Just wait. It'll come.
For whatever reason, the New Yorker articles quotes a couple of women, but there have been plenty of guys who've gotten fed up with Linus's abrasiveness and moved on.
I think the "for whatever reason" is a bit loaded there... The "whatever reason" is pretty clear in the larger cultural environment.
It's probably worth noting that there's already pressure forming to have Ted Ts'o removed from the TAB on "meta" grounds (Can't make a report while this person is on the Board), and explicitly called out as "someone who didn't sign off on the patch", from a person shouted out to by the reporter of the NY article on the announcement.
Hire a Linux system administrator, systems engineer,
https://twitter.com/_sagesharp...
The new Code of Conduct explicitly says discrimination and harassment on the basis of sex or gender is not allowed. One Linux Foundation Technical Advisory Board member who did not sign off on the patch is Ted Tso, who is a rape apologist:
Begun the SJW war has.
There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary and those who don't.
Since they're already going after core developers since the CoC was put into place, the belief that they're going to put substandard code into place is no longer theoretical, it's pretty much a given.
Om, nomnomnom...
I'm sorry, from here Linux seems like a very very nice guy. Yeah, he gets super-pissed with people who waste his time. Of course he does. He's the effing kernel lead and if you didn't to your homework and keep on harping about the same bullshit although you should know better, especially if you're a paid engineer at a large famous and powerful IC company.
Yes, he uses explitives where he shouldn't and it makes him sound immature and childish and way less sophisticated than it should. Which is why he wants to improve. Kudos to him for that.
I'd take Linus as a teamlead over most others anytime. And if he were mad at me if look very carefully into what I delivered that made him made before I get back to him or simply blow it off as Linus being Linus.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
It is clear that Women and Men cannot meaningfully work together. There needs to be separate workplaces, schools, drinking fountains, restaurants, bars, clubs, gyms, roads, buses, trains, planes, and automobiles for men and women. Men can go off in a corner by themselves and work until all their endeavors fail and burn as they inevitably will. Women can have a work-place and other facilities free of toxic masculinity and mysogenistic, testosterone fueled hostility where they can become the great inventors, scientists, teachers, craftswomen, (basically, any interesting and fulfilling job, but, nothing like garbage-men) that they all deserve to be and the world will be a nirvana of greatness instead of the shithole that men have stumbled into over the eons. Yay for the future! Purge the men from society!
Also, the NY is definitely highlighting this. Misogyny is the implication:
Linus Torvalds's decision to step aside came after we asked him a series of questions about his conduct for a story on complaints about his abusive behavior discouraging women from working as Linux-kernel programmers
https://twitter.com/NewYorker/status/1042793559601164290
Hire a Linux system administrator, systems engineer,
I could give a shit if everyone hadn't always been twice as mean to me my whole life in person as in plain text. Imagine living your entire childhood and most of your adult life completely surrounded by people that demeaning and cruel verbally, and who were also physically just as abusive, but not nearly as smart, so there's nothing redeeming to learn from the beatings.
It really boggles my mind that there's people out there this high up in Linux kernel development who have managed to grow to adulthood thinking they have the right to be treated nicely. That was never a given anywhere I have ever been.
Santo, subito!
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
If some asshole kept trying to check in 'steaming piles of code', I'd resort to whatever it took to get him/her to just leave and not come back.
Good teams are though.
People that force you to be an asshole, or they'll fuck things up, are the king assholes. The only way to keep an 'asshole' free team is to get rid of them ASAP.
Everybody can be an asshole, rule of 3s. If your last 3 bosses have all been assholes, you are most likely the asshole.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Honestly, I can relate to this on a personal level and many other intelligent people I know struggle to some degree with the same issue. It's not that any of us wants to be an asshole but emotions, least of all those of other people, simply aren't a real part of our thought processes. It takes a concerted effort to consider how the way in which details are presented may affect others which doesn't come naturally to some more analytical minds. I've struggled, for most of my life, with coming across like an asshole because I don't consider peoples' feelings. Props to him for recognizing it and trying to do something about.
Steve Jobs, visionary genius with incredibly high standards
Just so we're all on the same page ...
Look, I'm not saying it's right or good. I'm just horrified that people that high up in the organization want to waste time on this instead of getting the work done.
As has been pointed out several times before, there is NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT to maximize profits. Stop with the falsehoods.
Here is a quote from the Supreme Court of the United States:
“Not all corporations that decline to organize as nonprofits do so in order to maximize profit.”
In other words, you do NOT have to maximize profits.
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/13-354.html
I know I've made comments in this thread as anon, and they're not even showing at -1. I'm not saying they're being deleted, I'm just curious if anyone else is experiencing this?
Thanks.
Disregard. It was my mistake.
He is insulting and demeaning to *EVERYONE*. Not just men, not just women. Everyone.
IOW, from the article:
“He is an equal-opportunity abuser,” she said. Squire added, though, that for non-male programmers the hostility and public humiliation is more isolating.
From what I've seen, it's OK to tell a white male programmer "your code is crap". But if you want to criticize the code of someone from a minority, you need to be extra careful, because you never know when they take it as an insult against their minority group. It's pretty sad, because it used to be that "on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog", and code was good because it was good code, not because it was written by a nice guy.
Still, there's an older and more general idea that if you want to play in the big leagues, you need to grow a thick skin. Linux kernel development isn't some neighbourhood hobby group where anyone can play. I just hope it continues be the big league in terms of code quality rather than political correctness. On that, Linus has a nice quote from 2013 in the same article:
“The same way I’m not going to start wearing ties, I’m also not going to buy into the fake politeness, the lying, the office politics and backstabbing, the passive aggressiveness, and the buzzwords. Because THAT is what ‘acting professionally’ results in: people resort to all kinds of really nasty things because they are forced to act out their normal urges in unnatural ways.”
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
If you're terribly upset because Linux Torvalds was mean to you, not in person but *IN A FUCKING E-MAIL* then the real problem is you, not him.
Says you. Linus disagrees.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
I'm sorry, from here Linu[s] seems like a very very nice guy.
Yes he is, even though I take issue with the kernel community culture he has historically promoted, or at best tolerated. He is a legendary keyboard warrior, a master of English (not his native language), educated in rhetoric and skilful in debate. But he gets it wrong from time to time and unloads a bunch of garbage that should really have been copied to /dev/null. The problem is, many of these outbursts have gotten positive feedback from supporters and media figures who really should know better. And a lot of community members like to emulate Linus's bad moments, and worse, without the brilliant rhetoric, so it really drags the whole community into the gutter.
So, Linus Torvalds, keyboard warrior. Much different persona from Linus Torvalds the real person, as anybody who has seen him in person knows.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
there's an older and more general idea that if you want to play in the big leagues, you need to grow a thick skin
Firstly, the vast majority of Linux kernel contributors are not big league players, and secondly, a significant number of those who actually are big league superstars have just quietly walked away. A couple actually killed themselves. It's a real problem.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Not $1.6M from Linux Foundation.
The reporter has misquoted LF's tax form 990.
The correct numbers from on the 990 say that Linus has a base salary of $350k and additional reportable benefits (health, pension, etc) adding about $290k to his compensation for a total of about $640k from Linux Foundation.
Linus received $1M from "related organizations". This could be one or more members companies of the Linux Foundation.
I find it sad/funny that the reporter has dox'd Linus. (And couldn't even get his numbers right.)
Like the NFL, for example. I get the impression that it makes money for people.
Sorry, I just realized that's a 501c6. FTFM.
I fail to detect any connection between what I wrote and what you wrote. Are you on drugs?
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Linus disagrees with everyone about the relative success of Linux vs GNU too : https://groups.google.com/foru... . He is modest, to put it mildly.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
A link to known conspiracy site Kotaku in Action, where you got the pizzagate thing from as I recall, which itself links to a couple of tweets hat don't actually show anything beyond some more unfounded claims without any evidence.
Up to your usual rigorous standards I see.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
That says that reorging isn't done to maximise profit. That's all it says. It says nothing about whether they then maximise profits, or whether they were already doing so. And, or course, a company that is held privately has no shareholders but can still be for-profit or not-for-profit. If there are no shareholders, it's obvious nothing is maximized for them.
So whilst your conclusion may be true, it can't be for that reason. The quote says nothing.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
He migrated to America and has been awarded American citizenship. Slashdot covered it, oh, a decade and a bit ago.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Nobody does that.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Substitute Trump for Hillary and it's just as true.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
That isn't the problem, though.
The problem is top coders getting rejected and the crap getting in because key players weren't looking at the code but the submitter.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
No it doesn't.. Jesus Christ this is simple reading comprehension. It says that not all companies that decline to organize (not reorganize) as a non-profit do so to maximize their profits. i.e. If you aren't a non-profit you can still operate with other goals instead of a maximized bottom line.
I posted the link so you could read the quote in its context. It's simple.. You can organize as a non-profit or you can not go that route, but you still don't have to make profit a priority.
You can be an adequate coder without being aggressively antisocial, but what Linus did requires something much more than that.
To be a genius, you need to be so far out of the mainstream that the mainstream will not cooperate with you. You'd have to be a saint not to lash out in anger from time to time.
We're talking about excellent, not just good. To achieve excellence, you absolutely have to put the mediocrities in their place or they will mess everything up.
It is reading comprehension, I agree.
There is some set X of companies that do A and some set Y of companies that do B. There is some set X /\ Y that do both, and a non-empty set that do X but not Y (X-Y).
However, there is some subset of X that is actually relevant. Let's call that X'. There is a corresponding Y'.
The judge stated only that X-Y is non-empty.
The judge made no comment whatsoever about X'-Y', nor can you infer that X'-Y' is non-empty by knowing X-Y is not.
This is indeed elementary comprehension. I learned that much set theory back when I first entered primary school.
You are drawing inferences about X' and Y' knowing only about a relationship between X and Y. You know X and Y overlap but are not the same. You do not know that about X' and Y'. The judge said nothing about that and you've found no additional evidence about that.
They may have elements that are not in common, producing the same result as for X and Y. But this has not been shown nor was it asserted by the judge.
The judge was very clear.
Go back and read it again.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
So, actual links in a condensed form of what people have been doing is a conspiracy? No, don't think we're a conspiracy. Are we at the point with people who have a similar mindset are using something in order to coerce others? Yep we are.
where you got the pizzagate thing from as I recall,
That's funny, I seem to remember the only thing I said on that was there was a lot of similarities between what was shown, and things I've seen on my own. Never mind that you live in the UK, where there's been literal decades of coverups by your government, police, and media of high profile child prostitution rings, and high profile public and government figures or anything. I'm sure that's all a conspiracy theory too.
which itself links to a couple of tweets hat don't actually show anything beyond some more unfounded claims without any evidence
So a primary link, which shows the primary posts of the persons trying to coerce other people is unfounded and without evidence. Brilliant reasoning.
Up to your usual rigorous standards I see.
Well it's sure better then your ability to make a stand on a law that's opposite of what said law actually states.
Remember when I jammed your face into the posts, leaks, and other associated information of anti-ggers being the source of their own harassment, and so on? I sure do. And your only response was "it's fake" and when someone who was in the depth of it all, came out saying "it's actually true" you ran away? Good times.
Om, nomnomnom...
I'm glad you've had better experiences. I've worked with a number of women. Most of them were very good. However when I called them out, watch out. Men, sure they can get pissed, argue. I've argued to the point we nearly knocked each other's teeth out. Next day it's as if it never happened. We go to work, work together and get stuff done. Maybe go out for a beer later. Often it's forgotten a week later. Not with women. Hell no. Man, they'll remember that 10 years later and want to start the whole argument up all over again because they lost last time.
It's as if they feel to be wrong is like a mortal wound. They're done.
Democrats doing what democrats do - destroy everything. Church, society, even football. This is just another SJW bullshit move.
Okay..
#1. It's not a judge. It's the Supreme Court of the United States (It's an Associate Justice or Chief Justice if you want to be pedantic). This legal opinion is settled case law.
#2. There is NO WAY, whatsoever, to decide if a company is maximizing profits. You cannot require it. Spent $20 stocking the employee snack bar?!? You didn't maximize profits!
For example, organizations with religious and charitable aims might organize as for-profit corporations because of the potential advantages of that corporate form, such as the freedom to participate in lobbying for legislation or campaigning for political candidates who promote their religious or charitable goals.
See that sentence? A corporation can organize with religious goals as their priority. If they aren't a non-profit then they are a regular corporation.. But they DO NOT HAVE TO MAKE PROFIT THE PRIMARY GOAL. It's still a corporation, (S-Corp, LLC, C-Corp, etc)
I'm now ending these replies.. You are gonna cling to your false belief that a company has to maximize goals, even when the Supreme Court has clearly stated that you do not need to.
'Nuff said.
If you chase people away who won't put up with criticism of their code, your code quality will go up.
If you chase people away who won't put up with personal insults, your code quality will go down. You'll be left with people who are better at giving and taking insults than they are at coding.
98% of the time, Linus does the first thing - he criticizes code, demands high standards, and attracts code and people who operate at a high level.
2% of the time he resorts to counterproductive assholery.
But... his personal insults get positive attention at places like Slashdot, and the 2% of counterproductive assholery is given the credit for the high quality of Linux. The credit for the high quality of Linux should instead go to the 98% of the time when Linus gives incisive code criticism and skips the personal insults.
You're not playing in the "big leagues" if you can't handle criticism of your code - I agree with you there. But you're also not playing in the "big leagues" if you're throwing around junior-high insults and pretending that it makes your code better. 98% of the time, Linus criticizes code in a way that raises standards and attracts high quality code and high quality contributors. 2% of the time, Linus throws around juvenile personal insults that make those high-quality contributors wonder if it's worth it. Don't make the mistake of giving credit for the high quality of Linux to the personal insults.
So? Linux has likely become successful exactly because of the behaviour of the developers.
I'd suggest that Linux has become successful because 98% of the time, Linus criticizes the code, and that attracts high-quality code and high-quality contributors. 2% of the time, he uses juvenile personal insults that make high-quality contributors wonder if it's worth it. Don't give credit for the high quality of Linux to the insults. Give credit where it's due, to Linus' incisive code criticism.