How New, Polite Linus Torvalds Points Out Bad Kernel Code (phoronix.com)

Linus Torvalds "has shown already for the new Linux 4.20~5.0 cycle he isn't relaxing his standards but is communicating better when it comes to bringing up coding," reports Phoronix, adding "So far it looks like Linus' brief retreat is paying off with still addressing code quality issues -- and not blatantly accepting new code into the kernel as some feared -- but in doing so in a professional manner compared to his past manner of exclaiming himself over capitalized sentences and profanity that at time put him at odds with some in the Linux kernel community."

AmiMoJo quotes their report: Last Saturday he took issue with the HID pull request and its introduction of the BigBen game controller driver that was introduced: the developer enabled this new driver by default. Linus Torvalds has always frowned upon random new drivers being enabled by default in the kernel configuration driver. [H]e still voiced his opinion over this driver's default "Y" build configuration, but did so in a more professional manner than he has done in the past:

We do *not* enable new random drivers by default. And we most *definitely* don't do it when they are odd-ball ones that most people have never heard of.

Yet the new "BigBen Interactive" driver that was added this merge window did exactly that.

Just don't do it.

Yes, yes, every developer always thinks that _their_ driver is so special and so magically important that it should be enabled by default. But no. When we have thousands of drivers, we don't randomly pick one new driver to be enabled by default just because some developer thinks it is special. It's not.... Please don't do things like this.
Phoronix also describes another "kernel oops" testing Torvalds' patience, in which Linus responded tactfully that "What makes me *very* unhappy about this is that if I'm right, I think it means that code was literally not tested at all by anybody who didn't have one of the entries in that list."

Comments

I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[elrous0]

That should be impossible with just a few written words, right?

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Anonymous Coward]

On the contrary, it just goes to show how unnecessary his over the top style was. The irritation comes through just as clearly, but without being overtly offensive and hostile.

Re: I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Type44Q]

They say to use a dental dam but it's just not going to taste the same.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Anonymous Coward]

One can only take offense.. It's not possible to give it.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[aliquis]

He should had answered with a shell script which checked a patch from that user enabled a driver by default and if such removed that users access to making contributions (which may just happen by mailing patches rather than some code collaboration thingy. I don't know what they use.)

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Anonymous Coward]

I honestly expect him trying to put up with snowflakes will land him in a hospital bed sooner or later.
There is only so much shit you can take from literal mentally disabled people before you either snap or pass out.
I wish the best for him.

But I must admit, seeing him talking like this is also much much funnier.
I don't know why, but I imagined Homer speaking those words in that sarcastic tone he does every so often.
"look at me, I'm making people haaaaappy"

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[gweihir]

We will see what happens when the first self-important moron does not get it.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't see how that is any more polite than before. Professional way to say the same would have been:
- We have thousands of drivers so we can't enable all of them by default. This is especially true for new drivers that have not been properly tested yet and which are not known or used by a large amount of people. Please be careful about this in the future so we don't accidentally cause problems for our users.

Mind you, I don't want Linus to change the way he speaks. I was really happy when my code was rejected by him with harsh words.It made me feel special.

Those of you who don't understand how I feel, work with something for a whole week. Then send it to someone who would really need your work, but who you know won't reply to you nor use your work in any way. That is what kills spirit and makes you feel rejected, not harsh words that tell that the person did actually spend time investigating your work and even was kind enough to tell you what is wrong with it.

Re: I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Millennium]

Aren't we already seeing that like 20 times over, just in this thread alone?

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Anonymous Coward]

If you think his usual style caused tears, wait until he absolutely demolishes someone "professionally". That's what I liked about the cursing: It was honest, direct and expressed emotions instead of suppressing them. He's going to be a lot more vicious and it's going to be a lot harder for some people to understand when and where they crossed a line. Some people like big businesses because abhor the lack of written down rules at startups. Most people however detest HR, deep hierarchies and inflexible rules. We will get to see why.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[93 Escort Wagon]

I don't see how that is any more polite than before.

If you honestly can’t see the difference, you haven’t been paying attention.

There are many ways this differs... but it boils down to this: Linus’ words focused on the code, not the coder. He still got his point across regarding why it was a bad decision, and he let people know he expected people to not do this for their own little corners of the kernel.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[sjames]

Actually, it can be given. For example, if I were to pee on you while you're sitting on a bench minding your own business, most people would reasonably say I gave offense.

Re: I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[greenfruitsalad]

As the great Sean Connery once said when a book fell on his head: "I have only my shelf to blame."

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[slashdot_commentator]

Poor guy, bottling in all that anger. He may cut his lifespan short by 10 years if he has to deal with a lot of incompetent code submitters. And then picture some of those morons mouthing off because Linux responded so blandly. All so a bunch of sensitive snowflakes feelings aren't hurt.

Re: I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Zero__Kelvin]

And yet the Dahli Lama would not take the offense you tried to force upon him.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[dc.wander]

Look at my history. Can confirm "adult supervision."

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[AndrewFlagg]

i write some pretty complicated fast and tight code in SQL and keep it as clear and comments where necessary to explain nuances not apparently obvious to others... and I always appreciate my mentor looking at it and saying *not bad*.. *you can do better*.. *let me add a little this and that and voila* there you go... of course he is 10 years ahead of me, and I am 10 years ahead of everyone else.. so I don't feel bad.. I just am glad to be invited to the party and table of doing some great programming.. I do have a hard time taking harsh feedback but then again.. so does iron sharpen iron, so does man.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[AndrewFlagg]

i am amused by those that cuss at me for good reason in email or over the phone; if I deserve it, fine, and then those that do for no good reason, they are in deep doo-doo with me and wrath hath no fury as me as a programmer with lots of muti-tasking multi-processing mental super powers // even with ethics applied properly. haha. Linus.. unleash the firehose.. i only yell and scream in two occasions; someone is about to die or the house is on fire and we are in it.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[sjames]

It's just an offense that rises to the level of a crime. That is, a criminal OFFENSE. There's a reason we call that an offense.

Re: I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[sjames]

Don't be so sure. He might not overreact, but the offense will be there.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[iCEBaLM]

Yeah, nobody has gone to jail... yet... We just have university TA's being pulled into "diversity and equity" meetings because they didn't denigrate a certain side of a debate.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[sjames]

It's the actual derivation of the term.

If it wasn't possible to give offense, we wouldn't use the term "criminal offense". No sophistry involved.

See also "fighting words".

I suspect that most people who claim it is impossible to give offense are just looking for a license to be an asshole.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[E-Rock]

The subtle difference between "you are a moron" and "you did something moronic".

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[BrianMarshall]

We have thousands of drivers so we can't enable all of them by default. This is especially true for new drivers that have not been properly tested yet and which are not known or used by a large amount of people. Please be careful about this in the future so we don't accidentally cause problems for our users.

I think that what your version says is different than what Linus said. He didn't say be careful; he said don't do it.

Your version also has more explanation that isn't, or shouldn't, be necessary for people that actually write drivers for the kernel.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Ol Olsoc]

Actually, it can be given. For example, if I were to pee on you while you're sitting on a bench minding your own business, most people would reasonably say I gave offense.

Unless you want to be peed on. Rule 34.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Ol Olsoc]

On the contrary, it just goes to show how unnecessary his over the top style was. The irritation comes through just as clearly, but without being overtly offensive and hostile.

I know more than a few people who would still take offense at those statements.

Re: I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Ol Olsoc]

Don't be so sure. He might not overreact, but the offense will be there.

Exactly. We live in an age where those who are offended the most easily have the power to get rid of those who offend them.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Ol Olsoc]

I don't see how that is any more polite than before. Professional way to say the same would have been: - We have thousands of drivers so we can't enable all of them by default. This is especially true for new drivers that have not been properly tested yet and which are not known or used by a large amount of people. Please be careful about this in the future so we don't accidentally cause problems for our users.

The problem is that there are a significant number of people who would take umbrage at what you wrote. Allow me to be the worker you just said that to..... Are you accusing me of incompetence? You're saying I'm careless? You're saying that I'm trying to write bad drivers? Then that evening, social media will hear all about you being a jerk and an asshole, possibly being a "something something" bigot.

I've worked in groups who to our dismay, got one of these wonderful snowflakes on a few occasions. Eventually they have everyone walking on eggshells in order not to offend them, as the focus of the group becomes as much not upsetting the snowflake as it is performing the task at hand.

After figuring out that the snowflake simply won't take telling, I would move anyone showing signs of being too easily insulted away from us quickly, and usually they made enough trouble in most positions that the next downturn cycle they were gone.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Idimmu Xul]

i'm hoping you're a fantastic troll, because the alternative is you actually have to live with yourself.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Zontar The Mindless]

On the contrary, I think Linus did an excellent job of explaining reality to this developer. Reality being that thing that has a funny way of not giving a shit about your feelings, and Linus not being required to cater to every developer's unwarranted self-importance.

Oh, and please don't use the term "scare quotes" if you don't know what they are. Thanks!

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[smallfries]

Errrrr, who hurt you child?

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[smallfries]

Why would this be a problem?

The goal is not to act in such a way that it avoids the possibility for anyone to be offended by it. The goal is to be polite enough that most people would shrug and say, well that person is just overreacting. Linus was a long way from that balance before.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[thegarbz]

I don't see how that is any more polite than before.

Let me educate you on what he said in the past:

Mauro, SHUT THE FUCK UP!
"It's a bug alright -- in the kernel. How long have you been a maintainer? And you *still* haven't learnt the first rule of kernel maintenance?"
"Shut up, Mauro. And I don't _ever_ want to hear that kind of obvious garbage and idiocy from a kernel maintainer again. Seriously. Fix your fucking 'compliance tool,' because it is obviously broken. And fix your approach to kernel programming."

So: No expletives, no attacks on the developer, and used Ps and Qs. If you don't see this as being more polite than before then I really have to wonder if you know what "polite" actually means.

Re: I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[gweihir]

We do not see Linus reacting to it....

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[fido_dogstoyevsky]

...Who is he to tell this person what "we do" or we do not do...

The person who OWNS Linux (and the "we" is the group of people permitted to contribute code).

...Who the hell does Torvalds think he is, dishing out orders like a tyrant dictator?...

The person who OWNS Linux (ie the person who dictates what is or is not acceptable code).

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[religionofpeas]

"your code looks like something a moron would write"

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[religionofpeas]

We do "not" in scare Scare quotes, and claiming what "we do not". Who is he to tell this person what "we do" or we do not do.

They aren't quotes, they are asterisks. They are just there for emphasis.

Re: I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[slashdot_commentator]

I come from the era where everyone in society bottled in their anger. The overwhelming majority just chose to die of degenerative diseases before hitting seventy.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[AmiMoJo]

How do I know this sort of thing? I've heard it over "criticisms" much milder than what he wrote.

So you think it's problematic because that's why you think other people think, even though those other people are not complained. In fact I've only seen a few tweets about how much better it is.

In fact you replied to me, the reluctant king of Slashdot SJWs, praising it.

At least with the usual fake outrage there is a single tweet or comment somewhere. This time, literally nothing. Just your assumption that someone somewhere must be offended.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Shadow of Eternity]

That's not rule 34, it's 36: No matter what it is, it's someone's fetish.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Anonymous Coward]

The example given for a similar case in TFA was very good, but the phrasing in it and the message is almost exactly the same.

The big difference is as you pointed out that Linus previously put emphasis on some statements by writing them in caps and usage of the word "damn" that maybe some overly religious people might find blasphemous.

It is interesting how the words used aren't the thing that sets the tone in the message but rather how you section off the message and put emphasis on certain words.

It will be interesting to see how Linus handles the situation when someone doesn't "take no for an answer" and tries to walk over the new polite Linus.
We all know that it is going to happen sooner or later. There are plenty of people out there who mistake politeness for weakness.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Ol Olsoc]

On the contrary, I think Linus did an excellent job of explaining reality to this developer. Reality being that thing that has a funny way of not giving a shit about your feelings, and Linus not being required to cater to every developer's unwarranted self-importance.

Oh, and please don't use the term "scare quotes" if you don't know what they are. Thanks!

Read my last sentence in that post. I don't disagree with you. While it appears that I am for some reason disagreeing with what Torvalds wrote, I am writing how a precious snowflake would react. I only know because that is how one would react based on 30 some years of listening to the reactions of the precious folk.

And learning what they do to groups, we learned to get rid of them as soon as possible.

There is a certain Gestalt when professionals and scientists can get together, and hash out the goal at hand, and get in the zone. And when in the zone, not all the language or comments are sweet and mild. But no one cares. I've called people assholes, they've called me an asshole, I've called myself an asshole, and they the same.

The goal, when everyone is on the same page, is the task at hand. When the precious person takes over the group, the goal becomes not offending the precious person. They produce a drag that keeps people from the zone. Or as we say "Stupid fucking imbeciles".

I had zero problems with the old Linus. If he called me a name, I'd give it right back if appropriate, and not a boo-boo feeling would be had.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Ol Olsoc]

Errrrr, who hurt you child?

Manshaming? That's about the most bizarre response I've ever read.

Dooood, read the last sentence in my post.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Ol Olsoc]

Why would this be a problem?

The goal is not to act in such a way that it avoids the possibility for anyone to be offended by it. The goal is to be polite enough that most people would shrug and say, well that person is just overreacting. Linus was a long way from that balance before.

Oh sheesh. Perhaps my 30+ years of experience have been all wrong, but the easily offended crowd do not get any less offended when they are appeased.

Been there, tried it, found out that eventually the color of the office panelling and the brand of coffee at meetings was enough to set them off.

And I disagree. When the easily offended are in a group, the goal damn well does become not offending. People become too busy parsing their words that after the second second guessing, they just decide to keep their mouth shut.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Ol Olsoc]

...Who is he to tell this person what "we do" or we do not do...

The person who OWNS Linux (and the "we" is the group of people permitted to contribute code).

They're working on that. Ellen Pao, Chanty Binx, The Kenyan Terror baby, Barry Goldwatter, and Asia Argento are planning to come in and take over Linux.

Have I been outlandish enough?

Now, everyone - read the last line of my gawdammed post you are reacting to. Jeebuz, I get it, ya'll are Poe'd here, but come on, when I admit it in the actual post in question that I disagree with what some people would say...... Oh what the hell - have fun.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Ol Olsoc]

We do "not" in scare Scare quotes, and claiming what "we do not". Who is he to tell this person what "we do" or we do not do.

They aren't quotes, they are asterisks. They are just there for emphasis.

Dare I say that those asterisks are enough to trigger some folks?

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Ol Olsoc]

Just your assumption that someone somewhere must be offended.

There is almost no statement that will not offend someone.

At some point, we must come to that realization, because if we tailor everything to eliminate offense, we end up with nothing.

Torvalds is a bit of a jerk, he says stuff.

Or might I ask - should he just leave, take this as a teaching moment and allow better people who do not ever offend people take over Linux? Sounds like a worthy goal, don't ya think?

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Idimmu Xul]

Dare I say that those asterisks are enough to trigger some folks?

Yeah but the right way to help people like that is with psychiatric care and the offer of work in a more caring environment, like a charity shop. Not to remove asterisks from keyboards.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Idimmu Xul]

If you have never had the joy of working with a person who responds to any disagreement with them as a personal and unwarranted attack, you are very lucky indeed.

If someone responds to disagreement as if it's a personal and unwarranted attack, then the problem is with them and they are the one that needs to learn to accommodate, not the rest of the world.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Ol Olsoc]

Dare I say that those asterisks are enough to trigger some folks?

Yeah but the right way to help people like that is with psychiatric care and the offer of work in a more caring environment, like a charity shop. Not to remove asterisks from keyboards.

Oh, just wait until you see what happens to you when you suggest psychiatric care.

I just sit back and watch you as they come after you. The snowflake resolution is a self curing problem.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[iCEBaLM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Something to keep in mind while listening: The investigation after the fact showed **no students actually complained** and the complaint was completely fabricated.

Re: I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[nmo.marques]

You should read the biography of Jesse Owens and ear what he says about germany in the 30's. He could actually have a meal on a restaurant with white people. Something he couldnt on his home country. Strange isnt it? Guess Jesse Owens was a blatant lier...

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Oligonicella]

No, they'd say you assaulted him. He just might take offense at that though.

Re: I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Oligonicella]

You cannot read others' minds. He might simply be amused at your infantile action.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Oligonicella]

Already addressed. It's an offense against the law. Perhaps not sophistry, but conflation. Criminal offense is merely a differentiation from civil.

"Fighting words" are regional, only occurring in municipalities that consider them equal to an assault.

You suspect incorrectly.

Re: I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Oligonicella]

Heh. You just argued that the recipient took offense. Had they not, there would be no "giving" of.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[HeckRuler]

No, it wasn't necessary, but changing it also didn't warrant adopting and supporting racism, sexism, and bigotry, or linking to their site which also has a manifesto against meritocracy. That people are defending her, supporting her witch-hunting tool, and not simply choosing an alternative or making up their own is appalling.

To support this sort of offensiveness and hostility towards whole demographics in the name of.... stopping Linus from being hostile towards individuals who screwed up? That's hypocritical and delusional to an extreme.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[fibonacci8]

"You code looks like something a moron is requesting that I approve"

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Oligonicella]

*Forcing* people to is.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[fibonacci8]

...I get it, ya'll are Poe'd here, ...

Meaning subjected to Poe's Law, rather than pissed off. That would be p.o.'ed.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[sjames]

Criminal offense is merely a differentiation from civil...

...offense. In any event, the law hasn't TAKEN offense, you have given offense.

Regional or not, it is still an example of giving offense. It may even mitigate or nullify charges of battery for the person offense was given to should they respond physically. Even more jurisdictions will consider such given offense in a civil suit.

Offense may indeed be given. Some equate it with assault. Others do not. Offense may also be taken even when none is offered. That is another matter. Some even consider taking offense when none is offered to be giving offense in itself.

Also a regional thing, sometimes it's handled more informally. If the local cops know you were giving offense when someone flattened your nose, they won't take your report very seriously and other patrons in the bar will just happen to have seen nothing.

Re: I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Ol Olsoc]

You should read the biography of Jesse Owens and ear what he says about germany in the 30's. He could actually have a meal on a restaurant with white people. Something he couldnt on his home country. Strange isnt it? Guess Jesse Owens was a blatant lier...

Nothing strange at all. The German people underwent a short period of time when they were under orders to be really accommodating during the Olympics. For all of his eating accommodation glory, they still considered him as a member of an inferior race. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Now they didn't exterminate Dark pigmented people in their concentration camps. Then again, neither did Americans.

That Americans have a racist past that is going to take a long time to get rid of, perhaps not ever totally, is true, and not at all anything to be happy about. But your celebrating the exemplary habits of your beloved National Socialist party simply doesn't mean that they and probably most of the world are as we say -RAAF Racist As All Fuck.

Meanwhile, here are some of the racist societies for you to check out:

Japan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Korea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Africa: This is a melting pot of Racism : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Europe, the home of the superior and sophisticated : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

I'd give you more examples, but if you don't get it by now, you aren't capable of getting it.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Ol Olsoc]

...I get it, ya'll are Poe'd here, ...

Meaning subjected to Poe's Law, rather than pissed off. That would be p.o.'ed.

Yeah - I'm pretty hard to piss off.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[whh3]

(I am just posting this because I don't have moderator points to offer.)

I cannot agree more!! This is an excellent point that I hope people are beginning to realize. If you have to say, "I just tell it like it is.", you're a jerk. People know when you just tell it like it is. You can be frank without being an asshole.

Thank you again for posting this!

Will

Re: I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Millennium]

Does it have to be Linus doing the reacting, though? Seems to me there's a whole bunch of them here already.

Re: I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Anonymous Coward]

Show me one single example of Linus saying anything about a patch submitter's gender or race.

Show me one example of a patch being refused or unfairly criticized because of the submitter's race or gender.

Simple fact is that you can't ,because it doesn't happen. Therefore, your idea that this coc is simply to protect weak women and minorities is bullshit.

That coc is, even by the words of its creator, a political tool.

Now show me an example of what I asked our gtfo.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[sad_]

no, we can hear the teeth grinding because we know how his reaction would have been in the past.
if he always would have been this polite, we wouldn't have the sound of grinding teeth in the back of our heads.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Idimmu Xul]

I just sit back and watch you as they come after you. The snowflake resolution is a self curing problem.

It's already happening, I get pulled up a lot for using gendered words like 'systems guy' by idiot millennials because I describe the world as I experience it rather than how it isn't.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Ol Olsoc]

I just sit back and watch you as they come after you. The snowflake resolution is a self curing problem.

It's already happening, I get pulled up a lot for using gendered words like 'systems guy' by idiot millennials because I describe the world as I experience it rather than how it isn't.

And yet, young ladies will often say "Hi Guys!" when they see a group of lady friends. "Guy" has become genderless, but people with issues that cause them to hate won't let that get in the way.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[smallfries]

You don’t qualify for mans gaming.

Re:I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[smallfries]

Sounds like the problem is where you are.

After the second explosive encounter with the easily offended and mildly retarded I found that they were removed from my way. They have been less of a problem since then. Could be horses for courses, or maybe you just don’t follow through when you double down. Lame.

Re: I can actually hear him gritting his teeth

[Zero__Kelvin]

Yep ... and how much do you want to bet that he didn't choose to be offended? :-)

#savelinus

[NicknameUnavailable]

I miss the old Linus.

Re:#savelinus

[Bruce Perens]

Fork him then. Create a web site with "old Linus" responses to every email he sends to the kernel list. Link them appropriately. Make a disclaimer that it's sarcasm. It should be quite a hoot :-)

Re: #savelinus

[Anonymous Coward]

Linus was blackmailed. Who benefits? Follow the money. Follow it back to the multinational corporations. Follow it back to #MeToo and the Chinese intelligence agencies. Follow the money.

So are the rejected drivers good enough?

[mapkinase]

That's the stuff that matters.

Re:So are the rejected drivers good enough?

[hey!]

That's not the issue at all. The question is whether they should enabled by default. The kernel development policy is not to do that with new drivers, unless there is some compelling reason to do so.

The driver in question might be the finest driver ever written, but the policy exists because the kernel development team is huge, and if everybody did things their own way the result would be chaos.

Re:So are the rejected drivers good enough?

[fibonacci8]

and if everybody did things their own way the result would be bloat.

fixed

"What makes me *very* unhappy..."

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh oh, he's using asterisks... this can't last.

Re:"What makes me *very* unhappy..."

[alvinrod]

They very well could be, at least in the future. Just imagine that anytime someone really wanted to say fuck, they just added some asterisks around the modified text instead. Eventually everyone figures it out to the point where asterisks are just read as someone cursing out you. Maybe it even ends up being a part of the language if it's popular enough over a long enough period of time. If you can't say "fuck" people will just find a new way to convey the same sentiment. Banning words does nothing to change the people or situations that gave rise to them in the first place. Eventually asterisks just become the new way of expressing that someone has fucked up.

I think there's actually a relevant example of this online now where apparently surrounding text in multiple sets of parenthesis is supposed to be an indication that the thing in parenthesis is a Jewish plot or something like that. I've seen it on /. enough times to look up what the fuck (sorry, I'm not really about the asterisks) it was supposed to be about. Maybe that meme dies like so many others probably until it gets censored and replaced with something else. I don't know when this started, but at some point, surrounding text in multiple set of parenthesis became an anti-Semitic remark, when prior to that it would have just been nonsense or a weird choice of formatting.

Re: "What makes me *very* unhappy..."

[Raenex]

(((This))) refers to a coincidence, formerly enabled by a Chrome add-in.

If you're going to meme, do it right. It would be a "cohencidence".

Re:"What makes me *very* unhappy..."

[epyT-R]

You used a swear three times and implied usage of condemned characters.. I have reported you to the slashdot Conduct Response Team for processing. Perhaps you should've taken your prozium more regularly, for giving offense is the capital sin of the New Age.

Re:"What makes me *very* unhappy..."

[swillden]

If you can't say "fuck" people with poor vocabularies will just find a new way to convey the same sentiment.

Fixed that for you.

I'll grant that there are situations in which curse words are the only possible way to accurately express what needs to be said. I've personally encountered such situations. Twice. In 50 years of life. Swearing doesn't offend me -- if it ever did my years in the military would have beaten that out of me -- I just consider it evidence of inadequate command of the English language.

Re: "What makes me *very* unhappy..."

[Zero__Kelvin]

Surrounding a word with asterisks is the old school way to indicate bold face in mediums that don't support it, like ... Wait for it ... The LKML. It is hardly any indication of a pending mental breakdown.

Re:"What makes me *very* unhappy..."

[morkk]

>> Twice.In 50 years of life.

lucky bastard! only used windows twice in 50 years!!

Re: "What makes me *very* unhappy..."

[Millennium]

It isn't bullying to not want someone around because they're an asshole or a creep. Going out of your way to torment soneone, that's bullying, and yes, what I do does, in fact, cross that line.

But I wonder: how much of what you faced growing up was actually people going out of their way to torment you? Some, no doubt: even people who were mostly fairly ostracized still usually experience sone bullying, because as a society we really suck at teaching people the difference. But if you're like most of your kind, I very much doubt you faced any significant amount of it for most of your school years. Most of it was just people avoiding you, trying to stay away: they didn't want you around because you were a little shit, but they were perfectly content to leave you alone as long as you let them.

But you didn't let them. You couldn't. You thought people not wanting you around was bullying, because you thought you were somehow entitled to popularity. Think back. Think hard. You know it's true, at least for most of it, am I right? Maybe there was one school where things got worse, or even two, and you really did face a couple of years of legit bullying then. You even noticed it was different somehow, but wrote it off as just another kind of bullying, but really, it was the only actual bullying you ever faced. The other "bullying" was people simply not wanting to be around you and leaving you alone, and that, I'm afraid, was all your fault.

And that's what the unmask-and-ostracize folks are after. People who know you for what you are stay away from you, because you're creepy. That isn't bullying. That's just society. Actions have consequences, and you know this, because that's why you hide. You know you deserve it. You just don't want to change. Which is your prerogative, I suppose, but if you don't change, then no one else needs to either.

Re:"What makes me *very* unhappy..."

[cascadingstylesheet]

If you can't say "fuck" people will just find a new way to convey the same sentiment. Banning words does nothing to change the people or situations that gave rise to them in the first place.

That's one way of looking at it.

Here's another: all words are just arbitrary sounds that carry meaning. And part of the meaning of offensive words is that they are offensive.

It's possible to convey displeasure without also conveying that you intend to offend. One set of words conveys both things, the other set of words conveys just one of those things.

Re:"What makes me *very* unhappy..."

[thegarbz]

If you can't say "fuck" people will just find a new way to convey the same sentiment

Well that's kind of the point. Its amazing how we can convey sentiment without an expletive filled rant. If you need to use the same language and hide the expletive with a few asterisks then you don't really have a solid grasp of the language.

Re:"What makes me *very* unhappy..."

[Highdude702]

Right! I can't seem to make it more than 2 hours on windows without muttering "this piece of shit" to myself at least once.

Re:"What makes me *very* unhappy..."

[Highdude702]

Apparently Linus is better at C than English?

Re:"What makes me *very* unhappy..."

[thegarbz]

Apparently Linus is better at C than English?

To be fair English is his 3rd language after C and Finnish :)

Re: "What makes me *very* unhappy..."

[Millennium]

It is when you label a certain group you dislike "assholes" or "creeps," and say "we don't want your kind around here!"

Ah, see, here's the problem: you're still assuming that the labels of "asshole" and "creepy" refer to a person's essence -innate, immutable qualities- rather than a person's status, which is changeable. To some extent the English language isn't especially helpful here, since we have only the single verb "to be" for expressing both.

One thing we are seeing with this movement is a tendency to draw sharp lines and judge people often on a single interaction in the distant past,

Except that this isn't actually the case. A single interaction is often enough to start an inquiry over, yes, and this is as it should be. Inevitably, more interactions come up, sometimes past, sometimes present, providing yet more windows into the person's underlying status. A single bad interaction is easy enough to overcome, except in the most egregious cases, if other interactions show that the person has changed. But this isn't usually what happens: you get more glimpses into a person's character, and it turns out thar they haven't changed at all, and this is where the judgment begins.

immediately making them pariahs despite any good they may have done since then, and ignoring any similar behaviors we may have committed ourselves once upon a time.

Karma is not a ledgerbook; you cannot "balance" bad deeds with good ones. That's not how atonement works. What people are looking for is actual change. If you've got some useful stuff under your belt but you're still the same asshole you always were, you're nothing but the asshole you always were. A creep who sometimes does good deeds is nothing but a creep. If you want out of the judgment, you can't just say some prescribed number of Hail Marys, or even "do better": as long as that's your attitude, nothing will ever be enough. You have to be better, and let whatever good you do come as a result of that change. Only then are people ever going to decide to forgive you, and even then some of them might not, and that's okay too. The whole point of forgiveness is that you are not entitled to it.

This is very typical of a witch hunt.

Your broom is showing.

Re:"What makes me *very* unhappy..."

[Highdude702]

That's talent lol, I can't even master one of the 3. :O

Re: "What makes me *very* unhappy..."

[Millennium]

These are all attacks on a person, and what you wrote, very certainly is bullying.

Yes. Yes, it is. I've been open this entire time about the fact that what I'm doing here crosses the line.

It is not life, and it is not society. Giving the silent treatment is also a form of bullying, as is excommunication. Silent treatment is different from collective avoidance, which is similar to excommunication.

People not wanting you around is not bullying. You are not entitled to popularity.

Want to know another secret? There was a time when I wasn't so different from you. Not completely the same, but you'd have recognized me as being on the path to becoming one of you. And people didn't want me around, because I was a little shit, and I thought that was bullying. And the hell of it is, I actually did experience a couple years of the real thing. Then I got moved into another school with a strong antibullying program, still didn't get popular, and thought the bullying had started up again (qualitatively different -even I wasn't so blind as to not see a difference- but I still thought I was being bullied when I was not). And then it happened again at yet another school with another strong antibullying program.

But I said "eleven years", which naturally leads to a question: what happened to the twelfth? Well, someone finally got through to me. This was extremely unpleasant; traumatic, even, but that is why it worked. And when I finally understood that I and I alone needed to change, and started making those changes, things finally began to improve. The isolated bullying incidents stopped within days. The ostracism cleared up within a month or so: I was never a social butterfly, but there's a noticeable difference between when people actively don't want you around and when they consider you an okay guy.

So yeah. I got out. And now I reach back, to help pull others out. The ones who are well and truly being treated unfairly can be helped along with far nicer methods than this; I already know that. Even some of the fair targets can, depending on where exactly the actions they're being targeted for come from. But some of you are tougher to crack, and so another approach is needed.

While silent treatment, collective avoidance, and excommunication are not illegal, they are not always ethical, and must thus be assessed on a case-by-case basis.

True as far as it goes. Even ostracism can be applied to inappropriate targets. That just isn't what happened to you. I've seen enough of your case to evaluate it.

A person who wrote what you wrote, Millennium (user #2451), should be avoided as much as possible.

Is that supposed to be power words?

I pity the people who are forced to be in such a person's circle without any recourse.

I don't hide behind an anonymous account. No one is forced to be in my circle. If people really didn't want me around, they could ban me or warn me or evem just downvote me into oblivion, and I would go away.

Yet they don't. Not on this site, and not anywhere else. Why not? It's not like I don't give them ample reason to: as I said before, I openly cross the line. There is no code of conduct or terms of service that condones what I do. Yet not only am I tolerated, people even seem to kind of like me.

And you've got to ask yourself: why is that? This is the site that gave us the infamous "Voices from the Hellmouth": perhaps not the greatest of articles on the subject, but nevertheless indicative of this place's general attitude. Shouldn't what I do be held in contempt? Yet it isn't, and that's a curious phenomenon, all right. Why would I be tolerated? My hypothesis is that I am tolerated because of my targets. The geek community has long been noted for radical inclusivity, but we picked up some people we shouldn't have, and they drove many others away. Now that mistake is being corrected.

Hope he gets some help for it.

[wolfheart111]

Stress is unhealthy none the less. Deep breathing exercises works for me :)

Linus Torvalds is a parent to 3 daughters.

[Anonymous Coward]

Linus Torvalds is a parent to 3 daughters. Nothing makes you grow up and be patient more than being a parent. lol

For the love of both sexes

[aliquis]

Europe and the planet stop fossile fuel and DON'T ENABLE THIS SHIT BY DEFAULT IN THE KERNEL. PÃRKELE!

Automated filter

[functor0]

I think he took his month off to develop an AI that replaces his swear words with non-swear words surrounded in asterisks.

Re: Automated filter

[Zero__Kelvin]

What did he do for the other 29 days?

Re: Automated filter

[Zero__Kelvin]

We know you still can't figure it out, but even a moderately competent person can understand it in under an hour.

SERENITY NOW!

[Anonymous Coward]

Compare 2010:
https://lkml.org/lkml/2010/5/20/218

This is just unbelievable SH*T: ...
First it says "only ask if EMBEDDED", and then it says "default to Y if
not embedded".

Why? Why the hell did somebody decide that everybody and their pet dog
should get that totally uninteresting driver, whether they want it or not?

I realize that every single developer thinks that their driver is the most
important thing in the universe, but come on! This kind of thing is
totally inappropriate, and to make matters worse, it looks like there are
a few commits that won't even compile because the whole file wasn't even
added until later.
And this piece of shit was made _mandatory_?

Get a grip, people. I'm not pulling idiotic crap like this. Some quality
control before you ask me to pull, for chissake!

2018:

We do *not* enable new random drivers by default. And we most *definitely* don't do it when they are odd-ball ones that most people have never heard of.

Yet the new "BigBen Interactive" driver that was added this merge window did exactly that.

Just don't do it.

Yes, yes, every developer always thinks that _their_ driver is so special and so magically important that it should be enabled by default. But no. When we have thousands of drivers, we don't randomly pick one new driver to be enabled by default just because some developer thinks it is special. It's not.... Please don't do things like this.

This is clearly developer behavior which Linus just HATES, but now he has to be polite in expressing his disdain for it.

I expect Linus to be committed to the looney bin in a matter of months.

Re:SERENITY NOW!

[gweihir]

He has to be a jerk to keep kernel quality high. There is no other way. Same as you have to be a jerk (at least temporary) when grading exams, for example.

Re:SERENITY NOW!

[Hognoxious]

linux is still a jerk, with less curse words but still a jerk.

You've got me convinced. So convinced in fact that I'm going to switch to the OS you wrote immediately.

Re:SERENITY NOW!

[gerald.edward.butler]

Once again, you are violating my copyright. Stop plagiarizing. A license to re-use my words will cost you $5,000.00 per letter. Please remit payment to:

Gerald E Butler
2807 Summit Road
Copley, OH 44321

If you do not pay for a license to use my words, you will be sued to the maximum extent permitted by law.

To the Slashdot Editors: Consider this a DMCA notice that I require the name and address of the above poster so that I may initiate legal actions against them if they fail to pay for the proper license to my words.

Thank You.

Re:SERENITY NOW!

[Zontar The Mindless]

Whaddaya know...

Re:SERENITY NOW!

[fido_dogstoyevsky]

...Same as you have to be a jerk (at least temporary) when grading exams, for example.

Actually, jerk is the very last thing you should be when marking exams. "Professional" is the only acceptable behaviour.

Which means that if the submitted work is of F quality then the only acceptable mark is F. Jerkiness doesn't ever come into it.

Re:SERENITY NOW!

[bongey]

Rationalwiki is pure trash, https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/... ,yep it's only social construct. Yep there is a Gender Binary conspiracy , all those other genders are taken away by black military helicopters and aliens. Please stop linking to trash.

Re:SERENITY NOW!

[froggyjojodaddy]

When you work with people who are jerks, you have to be jerks to them otherwise the the message doesn't get through. If you work with nice people, you can have rational discussions and come to an understanding where the best decision wins based on it's merit

I work with tech types (developers, programmers, tech support) and non-tech types (data scientists, communications, program managers). Over many years, I've learnt that being "nice" to tech-types gives you limited success. Starting a conversation like this,

"Hey, I noticed you made X decision that had negative Y consequences. Let's sit down and figure out how we can undo the problem and get back on track"

Invariably ends up with the person defending their decision, even though it's quite obviously had negative consequences E.g. Hey, you reduced memory allocation to this VM which caused processing to crawl to a stop while it swapped like crazy. As a result, hundreds of jobs ended up taking hours instead of minutes.. The tech-type will spend all their time defending their decision with little or no regard to the the downstream impacts for others. It's like they can't just admit they were wrong. I could spend hours debating this person but experience has taught me that you just go in and say, "Hey, you need to increase the memory allocation back to what it was. Don't do it again without my express sign off"

Processing resumes, things get done. Life goes on.

Some tech-types are more open to review but if someone did something so obviously wrong and does it repeatedly, I'm saying you need to understand there's no value in conversing with that person in a way that isn't "old Linus" like.

Re:SERENITY NOW!

[gerald.edward.butler]

Your mom tried to get rid of you with a coat hanger my scraping you out through perforated rectum after she was gang-raped by the Gener Binrary conspiracy. She yanked you out on the hooked end of a coat hanger and plopped you in the toilet thinking she'd be done with you, but, a bunch of LGBTQ franken-scientists slurped you out of the commode and incubated you in dog-shit and horse-piss while nourishing your malformed fetus with the ass-juice of a AIDS-infected monkey and the jizz scraped off the floor after their anal-orgies. You grew and became an ugly, stupid, horrifying visage that lurks in the shadows and jumps out to suck the shit out of poeple's asses and lick up the jizz from shady motels to sustain yourself. We would be doing you a favor by putting you out of the world's misery, but, instead we will point and laugh at your horrifying, disgusting, malformed, maladapted, partial-abortion presence. You are disgusting to look at and even more disgusting to hear as the constant gargling sound of all the jizz you swallow bubbles and froths out of your mouth as you try to speak!

Away with you! Back to the sewers C.H.U.D.!

Still not right

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want a healthy productive community, the correct way to handle repeated violations of policy is to document the policy and direct people to it when its violated.

If instead he said, you have violated our driver enablement policy, documented at link, then everyone one involved in the offending change making it in would have a much more pleasant time correcting their behavior and also have the opportunity to learn about such rules in advance easier.

In the software industry, it is standard practice to take repeat issues like this and document then in your best practices document along with examples and justifications. Its better for everyone involved (less work and stress for people like Linus, less being singled out and less feeling like they are being targeted by the contributors).

Personally I find that the canonical policy documentation is in Linus's head to be a bigger issue than his attitude. There is more to being fostering a positive developer community than not speaking in a rude way: you actually need to be inclusive/transparent when it comes to forming the policies, and in this case having a written best practices document everyone can read and discuss when they have disagreements rather than suffer a personal attack for an authority figure would make this a much better experience for most people.

At least that's my personal take coming from from the big company cooperate software engineering environment. I've dealt with this kind of feedback before, and it always feels like "my arbitrary opinion that you don't have access to says you should stop being wrong". I like it much better when a perceived mistake is instead address with the question of how we can help future people from making the mistake (ex: new documentation) or how I can help myself from making similar mistakes (ex: direct me to existing documentation). Its the difference of attitude between you messed up, vs how can we learn from this to improve the system so less people fall into the same trap you did.

Re: Still not right

[Anonymous Coward]

Well his arbitrary opinion has been proven correct over decades. When he finally drops dead you can debate things with his successor all you like.

Re: Still not right

[Zero__Kelvin]

Which part of "Don't be a moron by setting your Kconfig option to default to Y for obscure and non-critical drivers" do you not understand? How would abandoning meritocracy for corpratocracy help?

Re: Still not right

[cerberusss]

When he finally drops dead you can debate things with his successor all you like.

Linus will not just "drop dead". He will turn into one of those nasty zombie processes that you can't even kill -9.

Re:Still not right

[gweihir]

I would actually not mind you morons doing it to yourself, but I and a lot of others not responsible for this are sitting in the same boat.

"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." - Tacitus
Also applies to projects of any kind.

Re:Still not right

[Kjella]

If you want a healthy productive community, the correct way to handle repeated violations of policy is to document the policy and direct people to it when its violated.

They process is well documented and on the checklist here it's #6 (emphasis mine):

Any new or modified CONFIG options do not muck up the config menu and default to off unless they meet the exception criteria documented in Documentation/kbuild/kconfig-language.txt Menu attributes: default value.

As usual Linus is ranting because people didn't read the basics, if somebody claimed ignorance I'm sure he'd provide the links but they're not exactly hard to find.

Re: Still not right

[hey!]

It's not a question of whether Linus's opinions are infallible or fallible; no one even questions that is his opinions are the ones that govern the kernel. If anyone did, they could just fork the kernel and run the new project how they like.

The question is whether the process for using those opinions is effective. That this problem repeatedly takes up Linus's time and energy indicates the process could probably be improved.

Re:Still not right

[bongey]

Vogon methods for software development. You cannot use policy's to policy your way out of bad software. Sorry seen way too many CMMI level 4,5 shops that produced utter crap, that's on software that can kill someone when it screws up.

What is important

[AlanObject]

This seems like a case study that can determine whether it is more important to be right or be polite.

So, was he right? (check yes or no)

Did he discriminate against someone? (check yes or no)

Did he sexually harass someone? (check yes or no)

Was he polite? (check yes or no)

One of these questions does not seem nearly as important as the others. Can you guess which it is?

Re:What is important

[DogDude]

Sometimes you have to be a prick to someone for them to get it.

No, you don't. If you're too dull to figure out how to communicate effectively without being an asshole, then that's YOUR problem.

Re:What is important

[gweihir]

In engineering, being right is essential and trumps everything else. Being polite is professional but optional. If being polite is placed on the same level as (or above) being right, the project is essentially dead.

Re:What is important

[Gavagai80]

Politeness has a bigger impact on the number of quality kernel contributors than the others, because it factors into a lot more messages. A polite response to an ignorant person leaves open a possibility (even if it's say 20% chance) of said person becoming more educated and making a better contribution in the future. Extremely rude responses almost inevitably mean the person never contributes to the project again in their life, even if they made the mistake as a teenager.

Linus' politeness isn't a legal or social justice issue, it's an issue of trying not to lose future valuable contributions. Even a more polite lifetime blacklisting (while unnecessary when a few years would suffice) would increase the chances of the contributor participating in other open source projects.

Re:What is important

[Anonymous Coward]

That probably depends on who your audience is - if it's an open source project and you're in charge like Linus, then sure.

But in the working world part of getting development proposals accepted is the ability to win other people over, whether it's clients, upper management, product owners, or other stakeholders such as the support guys that have to deploy and support it.

In that scenario you can be right all you want, but if you don't get business sign off you'll never get to build that thing no matter how right you were about it.

Re:What is important

[Anonymous Coward]

I find it absolutely hilarious that you're lecturing someone on how to be polite while calling them names, and a curse word name at that. What a fucking jackass with bankrupt self-awareness you are.

Re:What is important

[green1]

If you talk to my boss, being polite is the absolute most important part. Being right is irrelevant. I have been dragged in to his office a few times and chastised severely for messages far more polite than the one in the summary, not because they were wrong, but because they offended someone who thought they had a god given right to ignore company policy. I've been told the right answer is to respond in a way that is so watered down that you can no longer even discern my position on the matter (my boss has shown me how he would have rewritten my messages) And then, if the person decides they still want to go ahead, despite my objections (which they couldn't possibly be aware of) I should just do whatever they ask because they wouldn't have asked if they didn't know what they were doing.

(Yes, I desperately need to find a new job to get out of this department)

Re:What is important

[serviscope_minor]

In engineering, being right is essential and trumps everything else

Spoken like an armchair engineer.

Woe betide the engineer who ignores human factors.

Being polite is professional but optional.

Generally no. If you get your ass fired for being an insufferable asshole, it doesn't matter how right you are because no one will hear your rightness. Like a poor engineer you ignored the human factors.

Re:What is important

[gweihir]

In engineering, being right is essential and trumps everything else

Spoken like an armchair engineer.

You wish.

Woe betide the engineer who ignores human factors.

You are the one saying anything about ignoring human factors. Makes you the amateur here. There are different ways to handle human factors and there are different human factors. Communication with other engineers is vastly different to communicating with users and that is vastly different to designing for users.

Being polite is professional but optional.

Generally no. If you get your ass fired for being an insufferable asshole, it doesn't matter how right you are because no one will hear your rightness. Like a poor engineer you ignored the human factors.

If your bridges collapse and your houses burn down, having been polite will not keep you out of prison...
But I can see you are one of those that only user their intelligence to justify their misconceptions and never to examine them.

Re:What is important

[serviscope_minor]

You wish.

Why would I wish anything of the sort? I said "spoken like an armchair engineer", because you sound like one. If you're employed as an engineer, well, that's just sad.

You are the one saying anything about ignoring human factors.

Yep that's bcause you were ignoring them. That was literally my point, well done. Have a cookie.

If your bridges collapse and your houses burn down, having been polite will not keep you out of prison...

Given the bit you replied to, you are effectively that the way to stay out of prison is to be a big enough arsehole that you get fired so you have no responsibility.

um.

wat.

only user their intelligence

your wrong i muchly user my intelligence

Re:What is important

[Highdude702]

Department? Jump without a life jacket that boat is going to sink..

Re:What is important

[gweihir]

You wish.

Why would I wish anything of the sort? I said "spoken like an armchair engineer", because you sound like one. If you're employed as an engineer, well, that's just sad.

Well, then be sad. As a matter of fact, I am the very senior engineer that gets handed and solves all the hard problems we do not have an expert for. I do love armchairs though.

Re:What is important

[serviscope_minor]

Well, then be sad.

You really are obsessed with my feelings. I said it's sad, not I'm sad.

I am the very senior engineer that gets handed and solves all the hard problems we do not have an expert for.

This is the slashdot equivalent of a letter to penthouse.

Re:What is important

[bongey]

Says the person who is asshole , to say someone ELSE is an ASSHOLE, maybe YOUR THE PROBLEM. SEE what I DID there.

Re:What is important

[gweihir]

You really are obsessed with my feelings. I said it's sad, not I'm sad.

I could not care less. You overvalue your importance...

Re:What is important

[serviscope_minor]

I could not care less.

Well clearly not, otherwise you wouldn't have written about it.

Re:Dumb

[gweihir]

Yelling is optional, putting them on the blacklist is not.

Re: Stop focusing on the PERSON, it is IRRELEVANT

[Millennium]

I don't see how this particular response by Linus "focuses on the person" at all.

Re: Exactly

[Zero__Kelvin]

No, the actual problem here is he sugar-coated the fact that the submitter was a fucktwat who has no business developing kernel code. No doubt you also fall into this category, or you wouldn't be so worried about how such fucktwats get treated.

Re:He just can't stop being a dick

[Raenex]

I agree, he's still being a dick and not particularly professional. Which makes it all the more stupid on all sides: that he accepted the Code of Conformity and that people think this is being "polite". The entire fiasco was a waste of energy.

Re:Neutered

[mfnickster]

"Your ignorance seems to have no limit. Your opinions are idiotic. Your personal hygiene leaves much to be desired. Your family is ugly."

Linus invented a new AI?

[Y2K is bogus]

I told someone that I'm predicting Linus will release some custom AI he wrote during the break.

He got tired of version control and went off an wrote Git, so what's the chance he went off and wrote some filtering software that intelligently replaces phrases with grammatically correct (and PC/SJW compliant) phrases?

He hinted at this before his absence, so I'm gonna bet he installed a "circuit breaker" that prevents tirades from leaving his mailbox.

Re:Linus invented a new AI?

[bingoUV]

If he did and publicized it - the SJWs likely would find a reason to go after him for this. So his not publicizing does not mean he didn't develop and deploy such an AI.

Re:He just can't stop being a dick

[gerald.edward.butler]

> and not particularly professional

A crack-whore is a professional. All "professional" means is that you get paid to do work. "Amateur" is someone who does it for the love of it. I'd rather sleep with and amateur than a professional any day.

"Professional" is one of those weasel-words that gets used to control and manipulate others rather than having any real useful meaning (beyond the above). For me, as soon as someone uses the word "professional" I know they are a worthless piece of shit and I can simply ignore them as they are irrelevant to anything that actually matters.

Go be a whore (professional) and leave the work to the amateurs!

Better not to build it wrong

[raymorris]

In engineering, if it's wrong, it's probably better not to build it.
Building something wrong, so it doesn't work and is perhaps dangerous, is not a success.

Re: Better not to build it wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

In engineering if its bad you dont build it. If its good and youre an asshole about it to those who say yay or nay to funding or signing off, it still doesnt get built.

Re: Better not to build it wrong

[serviscope_minor]

In engineering if its bad you dont build it. If its good and youre an asshole about it to those who say yay or nay to funding or signing off, it still doesnt get built.

Absolutely 100% true. engineering is not an abstract art, it is all about the humans. That is after all the only reason things are built. And what's even worse if you're right but get fired for being a jerk and then the guy who's wrong gets to call the shots.

Re:I'm confused

[guruevi]

He's still a prick about it. This most definitely will hurt someone's feelings. But it's okay since he bowed to the SJW idol a few weeks ago.

Re:He just can't stop being a dick

[gerald.edward.butler]

You are violating my copyright. Stop plagiarizing. A license to re-use my words will cost you $5,000.00 per letter. Please remit payment to:

Gerald E Butler
2807 Summit Road
Copley, OH 44321

If you do not pay for a license to use my words, you will be sued to the maximum extent permitted by law.

To the Slashdot Editors: Consider this a DMCA notice that I require the name and address of the above poster so that I may initiate legal actions against them if they fail to pay for the proper license to my words.

Thank You.

Re: Stop focusing on the PERSON, it is IRRELEVANT

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of the last paragraph but especially the first sentence of it, was passive aggressive insults. He "nicely" said "you aren't fucking special, stop acting like it". It's unwarranted. Did the submitter try to claim to be special? Maybe they just didn't know the policy, maybe the default flag was a typo, maybe it was just an oversight. Regardless, the diatribe at the end is unnecessary. He also dismisses the user's product as unimportant. I don't think Linus's product is all that important either but I don't go around telling him that. Everyone thinks their product is important, stating you don't think it is, is just being a dick. Linus has always acted like ANY mistake was a malicious attempt to murder his children. All he needed to say was "Our driver policy states drivers are not to be enabled by default. Please correct your code and resubmit." No insults. No ambiguity. Clearly states the reason for rejection.

Talking about how other people aren't special implies you think you are unless you explicitly exclude yourself, which he didn't. It's just an exercise to stroke his own ego and show everyone who's in charge. If he were *REALLY* in charge, he wouldn't have had to take a vacation and we wouldn't be arguing about this article. See, I can do it too, and boy does my ego feel better!

The newspeak

[aberglas]

Old Linus speak
"You're an idiot...."
Means fix it up and resubmit.

New Linus speak
"I think that there might be an opportunity for improvement..."
means your about to be fired (or barred).

Be very very wary of people that are very polite.

Re:The newspeak

[swillden]

Nonsense. It's perfectly possible to be both polite and clear.

Re:The newspeak

[swillden]

You completely miss the point.

It is perfectly possible to be both polite and deliberately not clear.

And it's equally possible to be both impolite and deliberately not clear. Clarity and politeness are orthogonal.

Re:Won't matter when the time comes

[BrianMarshall]

Fuck people that feel they are "excluded".

People are included in the kernel "community" by contributing and having those contributions included in the kernel - a great honor in the world of software development.

Re: He just can't stop being a dick

[aspillai]

I guess you'd rather have an amateur operate on you than a professional? Or how about an amateur build a bridge?

Professional means something more than what you ascribe to it. I understand that in our modern world, people use words willy nilly without any consideration for its actual meaning. Often professional means some formal education, experience and recognition by peers of this achievement.

This is the case with doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants. And if go to continental Europe, with actors, dancers, musicians, etc.

Re:He just can't stop being a dick

[Kjella]

All "professional" means is that you get paid to do work.

If that was the only meaning of the word no paid person could act unprofessionally and no volunteer act professionally. I think you miss how often "being a professional" means sucking it up and doing your job regardless of your personal feelings or abusive/irate behavior. Think being a defense lawyer for scum or a customer service representative that just got blasted with a curse-laden tirade. Or simply trying to keep objective standards and be a neutral judge even though one is a beer buddy and the other is not.

Can it be weaponized as a shield against retaliation or to goad people into acting unprofessionally and punishing them for it? Sure. A lot of people are abusive towards CSRs because they know they can't respond in kind. And if they do tilt, you can report them and they get reprimanded or fired. Which is why many have found their own secret ways to take revenge or give them bad karma. Voluntary professionalism is pretty much always a good thing, it's acting with respect and integrity. Imposed professionalism sometimes means being the doormat.

This is of course equally true in corporate politics, people will invoke professionalism to keep others from playing dirty tricks while playing their own dirty tricks. Nobody's claimed being professional means you always win, sometimes you have to either get down in the mud and wrestle the pig or walk away. And sometimes the game is just rigged so that you can't win. It's more of a personal standard, I won't stoop to that level.

Actual text

[thegarbz]

Oh fuck off. We do *not* enable new random drivers by default. And we most *definitely* don't do it when they are odd-ball ones that most people have never heard of.

Yet the new "BigBen Interactive" driver that was added this merge window did exactly that.

Just don't fucking do it.

Yes, yes, you always thinks that your driver is so special and so magically important that it should be enabled by default. But no. When we have thousands of drivers, we don't randomly pick one new driver to be enabled by default just because some developer thinks they are special. You're not. Don't fucking do things like this.

Re:Actual text

[Anonymous Coward]

I know we don't read TFA, but there is an example of how Linus dealt with almost the exact same situation before:

You add new drivers and then default them to "on".

THAT IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.

I don't know why I have to say this every single merge window, but let's do it one more time:

As a developer, you think _your_ driver or feature is the most important thing ever, and you have the hardware.

AND ALMOST NOBODY ELSE CARES.

Read it and weep. Unless your hardware is completely ubiquitous, it damn well should not default to being defaulted everybody elses config. ...
But something like CONFIG_DELL_SMBIOS sure as hell does not merit being default on. Not even if you have enabled WMI.

EVERY SINGLE "default" line that got added by this branch was wrong.

Stop doing this. It's a serious violation of peoples expectations. When I do "make oldconfig", I don't want some new random hardware support.

At this point I think Linus should just write a template "no seldomly used drivers enabled by default" response.
No need to invest all that time in writing a response when the committer didn't invest time in considering proper settings.
Even better if it can insert driver/hardware name automatically.

Re:Neutered

[fido_dogstoyevsky]

I think he will just learn to be cutting and harsh in a polite way. It is not that hard to utterly destroy somebody while staying perfectly polite and seemingly not even getting personal at all.

"When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite." WS Churchill

Re:Hail to the new Linus

[slashdot_commentator]

Torvalds can't say that in the new Linux.

Re:He just can't stop being a dick

[slashdot_commentator]

The idea that the linux kernel is developed by unpaid volunteers is an out of date misconception. All the major maintainers are paid by the Linux Foundation, subsidized by the computing industry, and even ground level submitters are salaried employees paid by the manufacturer that wants their hardware to run on Linux.

Sadly, this is what makes SJW feminists and snowflakes objections almost valid. Linux is now a not-for-profit industry consortium, and success in it can determine future career advancement. Its a business environment now, with financial consequences.

Re:He just can't stop being a dick

[slashdot_commentator]

I don't do anything as important as a kernel though, I just have to make sure that airplanes don't fall out of the sky................./s

I don't fly, so all you need to do is keep those planes from falling on me. What are you doing on this time wasting website??? Get back to work, you lazy bum!!!

Re: Exactly

[AmiMoJo]

On the one hand we have this useful driver that seems to be working well enough. On the other they left the enable by default flag set, probably by accident as they had to in there for development. Is it really a good idea to reject the driver and tell them that they should stop contributing for what is a fairly minor mistake?

Re: Stop focusing on the PERSON, it is IRRELEVANT

[invalid_user]

Americans. Do you all want to become like the Germans? Or the Japanese? Because that's what you will become if you go down this path.

These are cultures where nobody dares to speak honestly, and everybody becomes over-sensitive about what the other person ACTUALLY thinks about them.

Re: Exactly

[110010001000]

That isn't a minor mistake. If Linus had missed it in his review then it could have affected the stability of billions of installs of Linux because it was enabled by default. That is the problem with people like you: you don't want to accept responsibility and your mistakes and you want someone to "save" you and be nice to boot. Next time, review the code line by line before submitting it. Also, the developer probably enabled it by default intentionally, because most coders think their stuff is super important.

Re: Exactly

[bingoUV]

You know the good ideas ? Let's see how many billion devices run the operating system based on your policies.

Re: Stop focusing on the PERSON, it is IRRELEVANT

[invalid_user]

You are the mistaken one. Having lived with these cultures, I actually sort of appreciate them.

However, I have friends from these cultures who have expressed frustration with their own cultures. To them, America is their refuge. The last frontier for the OPEN and FREE.

These people, myself included, would be very disappointed if America stops being open and free. For one, the world would become less DIVERSE.

Re: He just can't stop being a dick

[gerald.edward.butler]

i appreciate your position on this, but, I have to disagree for these reasons:

* "Professional" has been overloaded with so many "meanings" at this point that it has become a useless word. It can mean anything depending on who is using and in what context. That is what I mean by "Weasel Word". Used in the way you describe, it can mean something useful, but, that is generally not the way it is used. An innocuous example of the overloading of the word: "Educated Professional" / "Uneducated Professional" - Can the second exist? If not, then isn't the first phrase redundant? If it can, then wouldn't "Professional" being an indicator of "Education" make it a contradiction?

* Use of words "willy nilly" isn't the issue. The issue is use of words as a way to coerce and control well beyond any natural right to do so. The people throwing out the word "professional" all the time are attempting to control the speech of others well beyond their right to do so. Many want to demand the right to control which words others use because they have been brainwashed from the time they were a child to believe that certain words are magically "offensive" and certain words are mysteriously never offensive. This couldn't be further from the truth. Words are not offensive or not offensive. One can not offend. One can only take offense. Anyone can decided to be offended at anything. "Offense" always has, and always will be, used as a means of control and manipulation to keep the narrative in favor of the power structure and prevent ideas that run counter to whatever the current power is from taking hold and spreading.

* For doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. I want a "competent" and "thoughtful" and "dedicated" instance of one of those. I could care less whether or not they were formally educated and/or recognized as long as those other things are true. For example, if a doctor learned by reading a bunch of medical texts on their own, or even, rediscovered proper techniques on their own, I'd be happy with that "Doctor" regardless off "education". "Professionalism" just wouldn't be a consideration at all. If I am paying them for the service and they are competent and helpful, great. If they are doing it for the "Love" of it and they are competent and helpful, even better. I could care less whether they were a "Professional" (paid) or "Amateur" (for the love of it), as long as my problem were addressed. In fact, I believe that "Professionalism" in this context actually makes it so it is harder to get problems taken care of. For example, anyone should be able to provide legal or medical services. If they're good at it, they'll get more customers. If they are not, they will fail as a business. Whether or not they have been certified or attended a particular school may or may not correlate with this, but, barring anyone from attempting to practice is where the word "Professional" has been misused to create an artificial shortage and make it so that those on the margins are less able to afford even minimal services. Also, as we know, "Professional" does not make ANY guarantees whatsoever when it comes to Lega/Medical matters for example. In fact, they are two of the few "Professions" where you pay (exorbitant amounts) regardless of whether or not they actually solve your problem. As a "software developer" if the software I create doesn't work, I don't get paid. A doctor or lawyer (and many other "Professions") are paid even if they can't deliver results. So "Professional" seems to mean in this context, "Someone who gets paid to do a job whether or not they are actually able to deliver on that job". Interesting, isn't it?

* For actors, dancers, and other artists, I have rarely seen a "Formally Educated" artist that is superior to people with actual "talent" who have zero education unless they themselves were particularly talented. Most "educated" artists are mediocre at best from what I can see and only accidentally do particularly talented i

Re:Oy vey

[Highdude702]

Well I just bought this: https://idle.slashdot.org/stor... Need to use it without the glasses to forget that video and hopefully burn my retinas out

Re: Oy vey

[Highdude702]

Why the fuck is this modded down? What the fuck happened to this world. This does not better man kind, this does the opposite. People need to learn to not take every little thing so personal. Neighbors don't even talk anymore, "friends" will turn their backs on somebody instantly to not get caught in the onslaught of hate to be cast in the direction of perceived "wrong". Grow up. What happened to being an adult, you people are acting like a bunch of 5 year olds.

Re: He just can't stop being a dick

[gerald.edward.butler]

Nice to see the Russian/Nazi/Chinese/White-Nationalist/LGBTQ/SJW bots are in full-force spreading lies and dissent!

Re: Oy vey

[Millennium]

Why is "incel" not considered a sexist term?

Well, actually, female incels exist. The term was in fact coined by a woman, describing her own condition. She had a disability which physically prevented her from having sex, but still had a functioning libido, and she founded a community of people in similar circumstances. The term is gender-neutral. Kind of tough to be sexist when you don't specify a sex.

Why are people claiming to be against hate, sexism, and exclusion so often filled with hate, sexism, and excluding others?

You leave us little choice. Nothing else has convinced you to grow up, so we are down to this.

Either politeness works and we all ought to be or it doesn't.

It doesn't work. You're the proof of that. So the rest of us continue being polite to one another while showing you the other side of what you do.

Not so much fun, is it? My question is, what makes you think other people feel any different when you do it to them? This is what happens when you become what you hate.

Re:He just can't stop being a dick

[gerald.edward.butler]

> no paid person could act unprofessionally and no volunteer act professionally

Correct. In fact, no one can "Act Professionally/Non-Professionally", you are either acting in a professional capacity (paid) or not in a professional capacity (unpaid).

> "being a professional" means sucking it up and doing your job regardless of your personal feelings or abusive/irate behavior

By that measure Nazi Death Camp Guards were just being "Professional". I'm not sure that that is a quality we wish to encourage. Even thought "I did my job" gets used as an excuse for bad behavior, doesn't make it desirable.

> Think being a defense lawyer for scum or a customer service representative that just got blasted with a curse-laden tirade.

I have no idea what point this statement is trying to make. Could you clarify?

> Or simply trying to keep objective standards and be a neutral judge even though one is a beer buddy and the other is not.

This is an example of being "Impartial". What does "Professional" have to do with it? Are we redefining "Professional" to also mean "Impartial"? Should "Professional" just mean anything and everything? This is why it is a "Weasel Word". It is being used to mean anything an everything and blurring the distinctions between right and wrong repeatedly.

> Can it be weaponized as a shield against retaliation or to goad people into acting unprofessionally and punishing them for it? Sure

Yes. Exactly. This is mostly the way it is used. It is insidious. Many people fall for it. Including and especially "Professionals" themselves.

> A lot of people are abusive towards CSRs because they know they can't respond in kind.

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the acronym CSR. Could you explain what you mean by this?

> Voluntary professionalism is pretty much always a good thing, it's acting with respect and integrity.

Respect and Integrity? Hmmm....Integrity is unambiguous. Respect, not so much. Do you respect someone if you talk to them nicely while attempting to motivate them to do something against their own interests? What about if you talk harshly towards someone to get them to do something in their own interest? Respect is another kind of "Weasel Word" like "Professional" in my opinion. Integrity on the other hand, is measurable and objective.

> sometimes you have to either get down in the mud and wrestle the pig or walk away

The correct answer is to always be prepared to get in the mud and strangle the pig to death and then eat a Bacon, Lettuce, and Tomato sandwich. It's the only way to be sure. :)

Re:He just can't stop being a dick

[gerald.edward.butler]

Plagiarist! Your lack of creativity is astounding.

Re: Oy vey

[Millennium]

Ah. I see the problem. You think I'm a liberal.

You're right that the libs have a severe problem when it comes to actually following the principles with which they inculcated a generation. But I am no liberal to claim that there is no one true path: false paths exist, and yours is the falsest. I'm not going to sit and preach that all viewpoints are equally valid: yours is merely the most invalid of all. The libs taught us all that no one deserves to be bullied, but they also taught us to that bullying and ostracism were the same thing, and this is not so: they are not, and some people do deserve to be ostracized, and you are among them.

No, I'm not a liberal. I am the parents and grandparents you disappoint on a daily basis. I am the traditions you pay lip service to the idea of upholding, but can't be bothered to actually put in any effort to uphold. I'm the duties you tell yourself you can't perform because that is easier than performing them. I am the people the libs replaced, protesting even back then that they were going to unseal people like you, and they didn't believe, but lo and behold, here you are. I am the people who kept your cage shut from the inside, and I now I am the people who will push you back in and lock ourselves in with you, just to make sure that you never, ever get out again. Because letting you run wild isn't worth any political goal.

Re: Oy vey

[Millennium]

It's modded down for being an obvious troll. My own response to it was modded Troll too, and this is fair: I really was trying to make a constructive argument, but I admit that I chose deliberately trollish wording as part of illustrating that point.

Protesting fair moderations is not looked on kindly by the staff. I suggest you stop.

Re: Stop focusing on the PERSON, it is IRRELEVANT

[andi75]

The last frontier of the open and free? Call me back when you can do this in america:

https://www.watson.ch/schweiz/...

Re: Oy vey

[Highdude702]

Ahh yes, do as I say not as I do. You people are sickening.

Re:Respect is earned, dignity is inherent.

[gerald.edward.butler]

Yes, but, what is "special" about "Swear Words"? Why is this the line? What's the rationale? It's totally arbitrary. Especially since no one can even agree what "Swear Words" are. I personally, just consider them "words". Words that have a purpose. Why are these words particularly "offensive" to anyone? Conditioning perhaps? Is there something really different about them that isn't imposed as a kind of brain-washing as a child?

I argue that declaration of words as "Swear Words" is nothing more than a means to manipulate and control. I think the history of "swear words" bears this out.

Who is right? Well, that is what debate is for, but, you don't get to declare something wrong and require everyone else to agree unless you are a tyrant and a dictator. Right?

Re: Oy vey

[Millennium]

Hold on; did you just admit that I'm hurting you? Imagine that. And while you're at it, here's some more food for thought: how do you think other people feel when you do these very same things to them?

See, it's not quite how you're phrasing it. This is "do as I say, not as you". I merely provide a reflection of what you do in a way you would understand.

Re:Respect is earned, dignity is inherent.

[gerald.edward.butler]

> This is something, that the great German philosopher Immanuel Kant pointed out

Appeal to authority doesn't hold much water. It's the equivalent of "The Bible Says...." and is given in the same tradition. It's just a logical fallacy.

> It's possible to be just as cutting without using swear words

Why is being "Just as cutting without swear words" better or more desirable than being "cutting with swear words"? Again, a logical fallacy. Assuming the conclusion in order to prove the hypothesis.

I think, if you take a step back, there is no "logical" argument against swear words that doesn't rely upon logical fallacies.

Re: Oy vey

[Highdude702]

You could never hurt me. Be it mentally or physically. While at the same time you try to intimidate weaker people as you failed to do in the post above. People like you aren't worth the air that you breathe. I'm a rather good judge of character, prison does that. From the few posts of yours I have read in this thread... You seem like a two faced "friend when you're around" type person.

Re: Oy vey

[Millennium]

You could never hurt me. Be it mentally or physically.

You do realize that's basically the biggest tell for being hurt, right?

While at the same time you try to intimidate weaker people as you failed to do in the post above.

Hold on; now you've gone on to admitting that not only am I hurting you, but I'm stronger than you?

Imagine that. And imagine these, while you're at it: how should I feel about this? And how should you feel when you do the same things to people weaker than you?

People like you aren't worth the air that you breathe. I'm a rather good judge of character, prison does that.

Blah blah blah Navy Seal yada yada 130 confirmed kills etc. etc. gorilla warfare [REDACTED]king end you.

See how easy that is?

Besides, I submit your palling around with and knowingly acting as enabler to incels and Nazis as evidence that you aren't actually a very good judge of character at all. Especially for someone who claims to have been in prison.

From the few posts of yours I have read in this thread... You seem like a two faced "friend when you're around" type person.

Because I don't acquiesce in the face of abuse from you and your buds? That's not loyalty, that's Stockholm syndrome.