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Democrats Intend To Probe Ivanka Trump's Use of Personal Email In Next Congress (go.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from ABC News: Amid reports that first daughter and White House senior advisor Ivanka Trump exchanged hundreds of official government business emails using a personal email account, top Democrats on Capitol Hill "want to know if Ivanka complied with the law" and in the next Congress plan to continue their investigation of the Presidential Records Act and Federal Records Act. Rep. Elijah Cummings, the ranking Democrat who's in line to become the next chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee next year, promises any potential investigation into Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump's emails won't be like the "spectacle" Republicans led in the Clinton email probe.

The Oversight committee has jurisdiction over records and transparency laws, and Cummings helped write an update to the Presidential and Federal Records Acts that was signed into law by President Barack Obama in 2014. That measure mandates that every federal employee, including the President, forward any message about official business sent using a private account to the employee's official email account within 20 days.
"We launched a bipartisan investigation last year into White House officials' use of private email accounts for official business, but the White House never gave us the information we requested," Cummings, D-Md., noted. "We need those documents to ensure that Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner, and other officials are complying with federal records laws and there is a complete record of the activities of this Administration. My goal is to prevent this from happening again -- not to turn this into a spectacle the way Republicans went after Hillary Clinton. My main priority as Chairman will be to focus on the issues that impact Americans in their everyday lives."

214 of 407 comments (clear)

  1. Fair is fair by fluffernutter · · Score: 3, Interesting

    (nt)

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re:Fair is fair by CanHasDIY · · Score: 3, Insightful

      By that do you mean that it would be perfectly fair for Ivanka to argue "what, at this point, does it matter?" Or maybe that it would be fair of the FBI to recommend against charges (despite admitting that a crime was committed) like they did with Hillary?

      That would be fair.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    2. Re:Fair is fair by nwaack · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yep. She should take one for the team and say that she'll go to jail as long as Hilary goes first.

    3. Re:Fair is fair by CanHasDIY · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Agreed - the only legitimate way to reconcile this is for both parties to admit to manipulating the system for their own gain, and to the detriment of the American People.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    4. Re:Fair is fair by fluffernutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think either is a big deal, but as for the FBI each situation may be different so they should investigate both. They didn't find an issue with Clinton's use, but that doesn't mean the Ivanka scenario is the same.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    5. Re:Fair is fair by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      Hillary isn't going to jail. She may be utterly corrupt, but that just means she knows a lot of other utterly corrupt people who are still in office or some other government position, and not all of them are going to be Democrats either.

      Everyone already knows that nothing will come of this. It's merely the next piece of political grandstanding.

    6. Re:Fair is fair by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      By that do you mean that it would be perfectly fair for Ivanka to argue "what, at this point, does it matter?"

      Sure. That would be a good argument after a few years have gone by and she is being asked the same questions over and over again, by committee after committee.

      Or maybe that it would be fair of the FBI to recommend against charges

      Sure. That would be fair. It is unlikely she intended to break the law, and as far as we know no harm was done. The criminal justice system has more important things to do. But congress doesn't.

    7. Re:Fair is fair by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1, Interesting

      They didn't find an issue with Clinton's use

      They did find an issue with it. They said it was illegal. They just didn't think it was a big enough infraction to warrant formal criminal charges. Law enforcement agencies prosecute only a small fraction of crimes.

    8. Re:Fair is fair by PCPackrat · · Score: 1

      Daughter, not wife...

    9. Re:Fair is fair by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 2

      Or, more to the point, what goes around, comes around. Trump made Hilary Clinton's email issues a major part of his campaign. Trump yakked about it daily. It's disingenuous -- or, at the *very* least, hypocritical -- for Ivanka to simply say, "I didn't know it was wrong." Literally, how could she not know?

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    10. Re:Fair is fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Uh, only in legal status...

    11. Re:Fair is fair by asdfman2000 · · Score: 1

      Agreed - the only legitimate way to reconcile this is for both parties to admit to manipulating the system for their own gain, and to the detriment of the American People.

      So... what you're saying is we're gonna just have a bunch of loud grandstanding and talking past each other while ignoring real issues?

    12. Re:Fair is fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You do know this is about his daughter, not his wife, right?

      As if that mattered.

    13. Re:Fair is fair by nwaack · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The legal system doesn't work like that.

      No shit, Sherlock.

      The prove of your guilt is not contingent upon the prove or lack of such of somebody else's guilt.

      Technically you're right, but in the real world there's this thing called precedent, and the precedent has already been set during Hilary's investigation.

      Are you being willfully ignorant because ORANGE MAN BAD or are you just trying to be a jerk?

    14. Re:Fair is fair by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 2

      As long as it keeps the congresscritters busy and not meddling in the rest of our lives, who could complain?

    15. Re: Fair is fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      There's also this thing called court, and if Hillary's case never when to court and had a ruling, then that thing called precident doesn't exist

    16. Re:Fair is fair by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      It does establish an excellent precedent for all sorts of flacks to start trailing Chelsea around.

    17. Re:Fair is fair by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      They are in a MAD situation.

      But both 'sides' have true believers ignorant of realpolitik, so there is a chance both sides will empty their vaults of dirt. Which gets us back on topic, Ds will have to manage their investigations carefully, escalation is very dangerous to both sides.

      IMHO that was why the R establishment put Sessions in. Another reason to cheer the corrupt old fart being sent to the glue factory.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    18. Re: Fair is fair by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      We dodged a bullet. Thank dog her handlers were so overconfident.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    19. Re:Fair is fair by jittles · · Score: 2

      They didn't find an issue with Clinton's use

      They did find an issue with it. They said it was illegal. They just didn't think it was a big enough infraction to warrant formal criminal charges. Law enforcement agencies prosecute only a small fraction of crimes.

      Well that is a bit disingenuous. Comey actually said that he could not find a prosecutor willing to take the case. And since the Department of Justice would have to launch that prosecution, it was the Attorney General that let the people down. I will say that the former director of the CIA was actually going to be prosecuted for less during Clinton's administration but the president granted the former director a pardon before prosecution was fully under way.

    20. Re:Fair is fair by meglon · · Score: 5, Informative

      She'll only be able to offer those up after 2 years and 4 months of investigations into EVERYTHING that anyone suggests, including all of her business dealings with China, and how her trademarks got approved days after the China's government got beneficial treatment from her father.

      There were 8 investigations COMPLETED prior to the house investigation, and none of them found any wrongdoing. The house investigation was 2 years and 4 months; it was longer than the congressional probes into 9/11, Watergate, the JFK assassination and Pearl Harbor. During Bush Jr's terms, there were 39 attacks or attempted attacks on embassies or staff, with 87 deaths. The cumulative amount of time spent on congressional investigations of these 39 attacks: 0 mins.

      On Fox news (Sept 29, 2015), Kevin McCarthy (Republican) stated: “Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today?”

      The house Benghazi investigation was never anything more than the GOP abusing their offices to damage Hillary in the upcoming presidential race because they knew she was running. Anyone who's not a complete fucking idiot could see that, but sadly, we have a lot of complete fucking idiots in this country.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    21. Re:Fair is fair by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      By that do you mean that it would be perfectly fair for Ivanka to argue "what, at this point, does it matter?" Or maybe that it would be fair of the FBI to recommend against charges (despite admitting that a crime was committed) like they did with Hillary?

      Every Trump rally erupts in a chorus of LOCK HER UP. Sort of seems like it does still matter, at least to the president and his base. Or, maybe T is just using a candidate, that lost 2 years ago and holds no political office and isn't running for a political office, as a boogeyman. I dunno. Maybe I'm overthinking this.

      But anyway, assuming you voted Trump / Republican, aren't you upset that a R controlled house, senate and exec failed to indict CROOKED HILARY? For 2 years they controlled every branch of government, including the justice dept. Yet they didn't indict. Strange isn't it? I'd suggest you really think how you place your vote in upcoming elections. Find someone that's actually going to follow through and LOCK HER UP not these hollow promises.

    22. Re:Fair is fair by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 5, Insightful
      As long as the FBI follows the same procedure as with Hillary:
      1. An exoneration letter is drafted in advance.
      2. Immunity is given to top Trump aides (and they're allowed to sit in on the interview).
      3. The interview isn't recorded.
      4. The lead official doesn't attend.
      5. The #2 official's family has received large donations from Trump's political friends.
      6. Prior to the interview, the lead official meets privately on plane tarmac with Trump's wife (to discuss grandchildren).
      7. Main interviewer has expressed disdain for Trump's opponents, such as discussing an "insurance plan" with higher-ups to undermine them. If the same terms aren't offered...Was Clinton's interview process unfair?
      8. As long as they believe Ivanka didn't intend any harm, she's let off the hook for any violations.
      9. If Ivanka becomes a target, it should be referred to as a "matter" not an investigation.
      10. Trump aides should be permitted to destroy subpoenaed or relevant public records and wipe relevant servers with a cloth or something.
      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    23. Re:Fair is fair by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      You expected more, with Pelosi as speaker? The 1% crowd own both major American parties, they don't want important issues debated.

    24. Re:Fair is fair by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      Send in a team now and get those emails for the public record. Interview Trump's entire family and see who else was using a private email account, and get those emails too. Do an investigation, done to the same standard as the one against Hillary = She'll probably walk away with a warning.

    25. Re:Fair is fair by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      If Ivanka was using a private email server AFTER Trump publicly complained about Hillary using a private email server then it looks bad. If Ivanka publicly complained about Hillary doing that while she was still doing it then it's criminal.

    26. Re: Fair is fair by jd · · Score: 1

      They did not say Hillary committed a crime. Neither they nor the GOP could find evidence she had.

      But, yes, anything that is truthful or consistent is fair and reasonable. Any defence that is applicable holds. Both ways.

      Only thing you can't do is say that a legitimate defence only applies to people you like or are on your side. Same goes for Democrats.

      Would you be willing to live with such a standard?

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    27. Re: Fair is fair by jd · · Score: 1

      Ah, yes, the fable.

      You know that fiction doesn't become real simply by being on the other team?

      The conspiracies are delusions by the severely mentally ill. There were misdeeds, nobody gets into political office without a criminal history. But that applies to those on your side, too.

      Difference is, I hate the crimes, whereas you hate the people. You don't care about the crimes, that's just an excuse to hate the people. That's why you're OK with fictional crime.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    28. Re: Fair is fair by jd · · Score: 1

      The Democrats want escalation. They want Trump or his supporters to do something so utterly stupid that the moderates in the Republicans defect.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    29. Re: Fair is fair by jd · · Score: 1

      That's legal under Federal law, provided it's authorised and meets Federal data standards.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    30. Re:Fair is fair by dwillden · · Score: 1

      No Colin Powell did not do the same. Nor did he advise Hillary that it was okay. Also the rules changed between Powell and Hillary's terms in Office. He also never sent classified information over the unclassified internet. Big difference in that last bit. I really don't care that Hillary used a non .gov email server and account. What matters is that she tried to hide and destroy emails that were on that server instead of turning them over for archival as required by law. And even more importantly is that she failed to protect classified information. By intentionally posting it in emails on said unsecured, unclassified server. By law she should face either deliberate security compromise or negligent security compromise for every email she sent that contained classified information. Additionally everybody she sent those emails to is liable for failure to report a security compromise. And should anyone have sent her classified info, then they need to face the deliberate compromise charges and she needs to face the failure to report charges. All are Felonies under the espionage Act with penalties of between 5 and 10 years per count, plus a heft fine as well ($50k to 100k per count).

      You lefties say we are trying to deflect to Hillary, well if you want to go after Ivanka for a far smaller series of violations. You'd better put Hillary in front of a Judge as well.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    31. Re:Fair is fair by dwillden · · Score: 1

      Sure. As there is little to no prison time for the violations Ivanka made, her infractions are subject to fines.. Versus well over 100 years in Federal Prison for Hillary. Put them both in front of a judge.

      I honestly don't care if Hillary or Ivanka can beat the charges. But if there are charges that can be pressed, (case closed for Hillary, over 100 felony charges for her alone) then press the charges and give them their day in court.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    32. Re: Fair is fair by dwillden · · Score: 1

      Director Comey laid out clear evidence of over 100 federal felonies. He cited over 100 email conversations that contained classified information, that was classified at the time it was sent. He specifically excluded conversations that contained information that was classified after it was sent as there is no liability for sending information unclassified that someone later decides should be classified. To be otherwise would be ex post facto and thus unconstitutional. over 100 conversations that contained information taken from classified information systems and deliberately or negligently put into the emails on this unclassified system. Each such selection of classified information that she put into an email is one count of either Deliberate Security compromise (10 years) or one count of Negligent mishandling of classified information (10 years) any such information sent to her, could result in a failure to report compromise of security (5 years) if it can be determined by the context of the data in the email that it was classified information. Similarly if anyone sent info to her that would also result in failure to report charges against her, but Comey did not address such so we are stuck with the 100+ email conversations that contained classified information, meaning she sent the emails with the information. That's 10 years per count.

      A more clear cut case is seldom found. Then Comey lied and said no prosecutor would take the case. Several prosecutors stated that had they been handed the info that he put out in the press conference they most certainly would have prosecuted.

      Yes they did say Hillary committed a crime, several crimes, enough to lock her away for potentially a century (though much less was more likely with her age they probably wouldn't have pushed for more than 20 years, and Obama would have pardoned her in a heartbeat.)

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    33. Re:Fair is fair by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      You forgot "the investigation is re-opened 2 weeks before the presidential election".

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    34. Re:Fair is fair by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      "Yakked"? He's still banging on about it. Whenever anything comes out about the Russia investigation he tweets about how they still haven't locked up Hilary.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    35. Re: Fair is fair by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      The precedent isn't prosecution, but rather the decision to prosecute or not. Letting the FBI choose to not refer a 'matter' to the Justice Department for further investigation and consideration of criminal charges and prosecution sets a 'precedent' of sorts, first that the FBI somehow should be deciding on prosecutions, and second that Justice can avoid any responsibility, real or implied, to act when there is knowledge of criminal violations.

      And there is certainly knowledge of criminal violations. Some that require intent, and some that actually do not. And not just recently, nor limited to the current First Lady.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    36. Re: Fair is fair by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      And yes, I'm reaching back to complaints that FLOTUS somehow overstepped her role and inappropriately influenced a White House staffing decision. Our President's daughter is accused of interesting but somehow undervalued violations of records laws, devalued because previous flagrant violations were unpunished, even excused, and considered to be unlikely to result in prosecutions and/or convictions.

      But not now, of course, because of the political views of those associated with this current 'matter'. And that's not merely unfair, it's a direct threat to our nation's form of government. Think it through. Yes.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    37. Re:Fair is fair by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      Actually I think it's more accurate to take the FBI Director at his word, and recognize that he stated that the 'matter' would not likely be prosecuted by the available prosecutors.

      In other words, he believed this would not be pursued by Justice. And that is where the blame belongs.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    38. Re:Fair is fair by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      I'll just add:
      But Ivanka's emails weren't classified as far as anyone knows. Furthermore, she didn't bleach bit 30,000 emails that had been subpoenaed, and smash a bunch of devices with a hammer.
      While it's still stupid to use a personal email account for Gov't business, this is apples and oranges.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    39. Re:Fair is fair by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      Semi true.

      However our courts also work on precedent - what has been done in court before becomes the guidelines of what courts should do thereafter.

      There's also an argument to be made that if any part of the federal government used something like Mail Chimp for broadcast communications, combined with Hillary getting away with it, that the law is now a Symbolic Law and no longer has any real standing.

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    40. Re:Fair is fair by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 1

      Politics is downstream of culture. You want better politics, live better in your private life and hold your family and friends up to a higher standard. Not in a nagging and shrill way, which is how it often comes off when people bring politics into the private sphere, which is an easy way to misread what I wrote.

    41. Re:Fair is fair by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      You've never heard of equal protection under the law?

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    42. Re:Fair is fair by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      His response should have been to turn the evidence over to the DOJ and let them suffer the political hit of explaining why they were burying it.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    43. Re:Fair is fair by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      . . . and you forgot that was the person trying to cover for Hillary fault

      FTFY.

      The FBI had possession of Weiner's laptop for a month, but the guy trying to take down Trump sat on it.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    44. Re: Fair is fair by jd · · Score: 1

      Sending classified information is legal.

      There are constraints, but it is legal.

      No, they didn't say that she had. The Senate examined the issue and decided any offences were minor, as did the FBI. If you know better, please contact them.

      But I repeat what I said. Justice has to be fair, unbiased. You cannot prosecute opponents for being opponents, no matter what conspiracies you believe. You can investigate, but you must investigate all who may be guilty. Every last one. On both sides.

      And that is where you draw the line. You'd never tolerate your heroes being convicted. That goes for some on the other side, too. You and they use the law to inflict harm. You weaponize justice. And that makes you more of a criminal than Clinton, whatever her crimes turn out to be.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    45. Re: Fair is fair by jd · · Score: 1

      You might snivel. Bloody wingnut. Those who have the guts to think have better things to do.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    46. Re: Fair is fair by jd · · Score: 1

      There haven't been any moderates since 2000.

      I have little time for left or right, libertarians or authoritarians. A good policy is one that does the job well with no exceptions, a good politician is one who holds that failure is not an option. Neither exist.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    47. Re: Fair is fair by jd · · Score: 2

      Nothing in the Federal Information Processing Standards, NSA advisories on government use or Common Criteria mention handing anything to anyone.

      Don't recall any such instruction when working for the DoD, either.

      What's your source?

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    48. Re: Fair is fair by jd · · Score: 1

      That is a requirement for servers holding Federal data.

      Would you rather she broke the law?

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    49. Re: Fair is fair by nwaack · · Score: 1

      I didn't say case law, you dumbass. Precedent is a real word, in and out of court.

    50. Re: Fair is fair by nwaack · · Score: 2

      The precedent isn't prosecution, but rather the decision to prosecute or not

      Thank you. I didn't think I'd need to clarify that, but apparently I did. It's amazing how incredibly stupid some of these posters are.

    51. Re: Fair is fair by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Vote Vermin Supreme in 2020!

      Sure the 'Secret Dental Police' sound worrisome, but he also promised to not fulfil any campaign promises.

      Besides the real worry is 'everybody gets a pony'. There are only 200,000 ponies in the USA. Brush after every meal.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    52. Re: Fair is fair by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      If the Rs dump dirt, the Ds do too, vice versa. The important people in both parties know this. IMHO Trump does not, he's the only person in many of those rooms who doesn't.

      I'm hoping for the dirt to dump, but not holding my breath. The best scenario I see is: Hillary goes to prison, the Ds attempt a 'proportional response', it escalates further. We get two new political parties. Long odds.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    53. Re:Fair is fair by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      Woulda coulda shoulda.

      Hard to offend your current and apparent future bosses all at once.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    54. Re: Fair is fair by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      I apologize if I offended you. I did think you were clear, but in this 'matter' especially I find it's useful to force everyone to deal with the simple and undisputed facts.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    55. Re: Fair is fair by jd · · Score: 1

      You're right, my posts contain facts. Thank you.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    56. Re: Fair is fair by jd · · Score: 1

      Unless they're pink Slashdot ponies.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    57. Re: Fair is fair by jd · · Score: 1

      So long as it was on siprnet and certified to have classified information, none of that matters.

      And, yes, it's perfectly legal to have classified machines on the other side of public Internet lines, same reason you can use a STU to call someone overseas, even if there's unsecured cable in there. That's why operating them involves following strict protocols.

      Have you ever actually worked in a government communications facility? Or do you get all your info from Infowars?

      You sure as hell didn't get it from the government.

      That you can't provide links to back your claims up show that you really don't have any. You're just repeating what you've been told. How... precious. You don't know what she ordered, or from whom, you've zero. Difference between you and the Republicans in the Senate is they admitted it. You don't have the guts.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    58. Re: Fair is fair by jd · · Score: 1

      So you've no links, no credible evidence, just gossip.

      I can see why America's average IQ is rated at below 100.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    59. Re:Fair is fair by meglon · · Score: 1
      I'm sorry you're so fucking stupid you can't read.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2012/1...

      To Libyans who witnessed the assault and know the attackers, there is little doubt what occurred: a well-known group of local Islamist militants struck the United States Mission without any warning or protest, and they did it in retaliation for the video. That is what the fighters said at the time, speaking emotionally of their anger at the video without mentioning Al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden or the terrorist strikes of 11 years earlier. And it is an explanation that tracks with their history as members of a local militant group determined to protect Libya from Western influence.

      ..... and then....

      United States intelligence agencies have reserved final judgment pending a full investigation, leaving open the possibility that anger at the video might have provided an opportunity for militants who already harbored anti-American feelings. But so far the intelligence assessments appear to square largely with local accounts.

      If the day after an event the CIA tells you what it's initial opinion is, and you give that to the press as the INITIAL opinion of what happened.... you're basically doing what's you're supposed to do. Now, i understand... worthless little piece of shit republicans like you are too fucking stupid to understand that, but that's more of an indictment of your fucking stupidity than anything else.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    60. Re:Fair is fair by meglon · · Score: 1

      It also could be that the people who are not completely fucking stupid conspiracy shitheads are tired of being spun by fucking idiot conspiracy dipshits like you, and are thankful for the few minutes of reality posts with actual facts give them.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    61. Re: Fair is fair by nwaack · · Score: 1

      You didn't offend me at all. I'm glad you did clarify, I'm just surprised it needed to be done at all. Then again, reading comprehension is not much of a strong suit of many /.ers

    62. Re:Fair is fair by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      I was thinking of them fighting a duel.

    63. Re: Fair is fair by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      #Triggered

      LMAO

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  2. Before everyone goes crazy again... by Sarten-X · · Score: 2, Informative

    To be clear, it's not necessarily a crime that a private server existed, or that it was used for official business. Usually, any criminal statutes require knowledge and intent of the crime being committed.

    For example, even if there is classified information on this server, that would be a security violation, but not a crime unless someone intended to mishandle the information. Just because someone "should have known better" does not actually mean they're guilty.

    How about we focus on fixing the violations, get everything into compliance, and move on with business as usual, eh? Just like we should have done with Clinton's incident...

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    1. Re:Before everyone goes crazy again... by DaHat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Usually, any criminal statutes require knowledge and intent of the crime being committed.

      Usually... yes, however the statutes Hillary violated has no mens rea requirement: https://www.law.cornell.edu/us...

      So nice of you to try to move the goal posts.

      What's next? Screams of "but they weren't classified at the time"?

    2. Re:Before everyone goes crazy again... by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Usually, any criminal statutes require knowledge and intent of the crime being committed.

      Funny, when I complained that I had never even seen the traffic sign I was cited for not complying with, the judge said that was no excuse, I _should_ have known! Ignorance of the law is only a valid excuse for cops, _never_ a valid excuse for lawbreakers!

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    3. Re:Before everyone goes crazy again... by arbiter1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Leaving any classified info in any unsecured location is instant violation, there is No Gray area in the law. I remember someone was interviewed about classified info. He said if he left a classified document on his desk in his off at say the pentagon and left the room. Didn't lock it up in his office safe, that would be grounds for his clearance to be revoked no if's and's or buts. There was a guy took pictures inside a sub which was listed as confidential, the lowest level of classification so he could show his kids/grand kids what he did. He got a YEAR in prison for that and they were easy on him. Clinton sent and received hundreds classified documents through her server and she can't claim ignorance to it as she knew she would be sent that kinda material as head of state department.

    4. Re:Before everyone goes crazy again... by oldgraybeard · · Score: 2

      I do believe that the act of moving a piece of classified information from a secure environment/system to an insecure environment/system is a felony. Just the single act is a felony.. Regardless of any other circumstances involved. And that very act was done 1,000s of times by Hillary and her people.
      Something as simple as leaving it on top of your desk/displayed on your screen and walking away can be viewed as a violation.
      At least that is what I got out of my security briefings.

      Now someone that breaks the law should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The 2 tiers of justice here is my basic beef with things.

      Just my 2 cents ;)

    5. Re:Before everyone goes crazy again... by DaHat · · Score: 1

      Again the moving of the goal posts. The deletion is one thing, however the simple act of setting up the server is enough to convict her, do note that you ignored the whole 'conceals' part, which oddly enough comes before 'destroys'.

      Sure, you may have dozen lbs of marijuana in your trunk that you've told the cop, prosecutor, judge & jury that it was for your own personal consumption over the next few months... they are still going to convict you of intent to distribute.

    6. Re:Before everyone goes crazy again... by meglon · · Score: 1

      YES actually reading the statue means we have to move the goalposts for the stupid fucks who can't read, yet continue to say really stupid fucking things. Pull your head out of your ass for once in your life.

      --
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    7. Re:Before everyone goes crazy again... by meglon · · Score: 1

      Your two cents isn't worth shit when the FBI and Justice Department think your an idiot and disagree with you.

      --
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    8. Re:Before everyone goes crazy again... by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      And your two cents about his two cents. . .

      *poof* did somebody say something??

    9. Re:Before everyone goes crazy again... by DaHat · · Score: 1

      No, I'm not a lawyer, nor have I ever said I am... but I've had multiple lengthy discussions with my lawyer about this very subject. Are you? Oh right... an AC, you can be whatever you want.

      Re-read the statute again, the willfully isn't there to say "willfully breaks the law"... "but "willfully engages in a certain activity"

      Drug carrying person in my example willfully purchased drugs, they willfully carried it in their vehicle. They may have no intention to sell the stuff, but they are still going to get intent to distribute (oh the stories I've heard).

      Ever hear the saying "ignoranceo f the law is no excuse?" In this case it actually is.

      Yup. In fact I've heard a judge say it to a defendant before. It was hard not to chuckle.

      The act of setting up the server, and intentionally bypassing existing document retention and classification systems was a willful act to conceal, as evidenced by later destruction in violation of a court order.

      Name call all you want, people here are arguing over apples vs oranges and intentionally misrepresenting facts... just like you.

    10. Re:Before everyone goes crazy again... by DaHat · · Score: 1

      I know, reading and comprehending it's meaning is so hard... must be why so many want Ivanka to go to jail but were ok with Hillary not even getting a slap on the wrist.

      On the plus side, Hillary did go on to lose the popular vote for the second time (many forget the 2008 DNC primaries)... so at least we got something to laugh about.

    11. Re:Before everyone goes crazy again... by Sarten-X · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You might want to take your refresher briefings, then.

      The things you describe usually fall into a lot of nice labels like "violations", "infractions", "procedural errors", and the like, but they very rarely end up as "felonies", because the applicable statute is one that includes that high bar of intent, by stipulating that the perpetrator must "knowingly" commit the act.

      Indeed, that "felony" label is typically only reserved for someone who's about to be indicted for a lot of other related crimes, and for good reason: The security community has worked hard over the last hundred years or so to develop a culture of forgiving loyalty. Honest mistakes are usually forgiven, and written off with a minor warning, removal of access, or removal of clearance, but usually no attempt to pursue criminal charges or other long-lasting ramifications. The system intentionally errs on the side of caution, preferring to let even the most egregious violations pass rather than risk prosecuting an innocent mistake and creating a potential traitor. In doing so, there's a much greater chance that someone will come forward and report violations, rather than hide in fear that they might be held liable.

      I spent a good number of years working in the defense industry, and I've seen plenty (probably a 3-digit number) of "spills", "slips", and "mistakes". I've only seen one person actually be accused of having that criminal level of intent, though... and that was mostly due to him leaving the country immediately after committing several violations. If he ever comes back, I'm sure there will be plenty of interesting discussions including that "felony" label.

      Justice is a funny thing, in that the reality usually matters less than the perception. In matters that are necessarily kept secret, there will seldom be satisfaction that justice was actually served. Justice is only assured when there is faith that the judicial process is always applied consistently. That's precisely why I think Mrs. Trump's server should also be subject to a full investigation, with all the same review, and the same fussing over the implications of whatever dozen problems are actually found. I'd expect the same process if a Pentagon official were found to run his own email server, too, or even a lowly base commander in the field. Like it or not, a precedent has been set, and it must now be applied evenly.

      That said, I'd also prefer to do without the media circus that surrounded the Clinton investigation. This is now routine. A personal email server was found that might hold sensitive or classified information, so we go through the process. It's not newsworthy, it's not political, and it's not something that should skew public perception. Fix the problems, give a good stern warning to whatever moron approved the idea, and let's get on with running the country, shall we?

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    12. Re:Before everyone goes crazy again... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      I spent a good number of years working in the defense industry, and I've seen plenty (probably a 3-digit number) of "spills", "slips", and "mistakes". I've only seen one person actually be accused of having that criminal level of intent, though...

      Quite. I actually fonud the rules refreshingly sensible. They're not some abstract platonic ideal of rules, but rules accepting that everyone involved is human. And that means two things. First, humans will screw up no matter what the rules say. Secondly, coming down harshly on them for a screwup is a great way to get them to try to cover things up which invariable make it worse.

      It seems like people here think classification works like in some sort of Tom Cruise movie where one glimpse of the wrong thing an the hit squad is on your tail.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    13. Re:Before everyone goes crazy again... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Was her private email server an "unsecured location"? Did it lack passwords, was it publicly accessible?

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    14. Re:Before everyone goes crazy again... by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      And recall that there have been other violations, in the same time period, that were criminally prosecuted. People were convicted and punished. For the same sort of violations.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    15. Re:Before everyone goes crazy again... by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      To be fair, cops aren't excused, they are permitted to violate and not punished...

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    16. Re:Before everyone goes crazy again... by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      And Hillary was told no blackberry outside the sciff. I fail to see your point.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    17. Re:Before everyone goes crazy again... by oldgraybeard · · Score: 1

      "high bar of intent, by stipulating that the perpetrator must "knowingly" commit the act."
      BTW I heard nothing about intent/knowingly back when I went through the process.
      I have always felt that "intent" and "Knowingly" we have today when talking about law and justice have have been real errors. It allows for selective justice = injustice! There is no way for anyone who did not do an act to know for sure what was on someones mind when they committed an act.
      It also goes right to the point of our 2-tiered justice system. the little people don't get to tell the DOJ, FBI, IRS, EPA, Interior Dept. I did not know about that regulation/law. They are told ignorance of the regulation/law is not a defense. You did the act your guilty. Oops me bad, Hey I will pay tax on that now, it was only a mud puddle, the culvert was clogged that is why there was a pond. No when the little people are involved The government comes down hard.
      When it is the privileged class from the proper party it is. Hey didn't know, didn't intend so no harm no foul.

      But of course these are just my personal thoughts and they really don't matter.

      Just my 2 cents ;)

  3. Lock her up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Lock her up! Lock her up!

    Wait. Donald why aren't you shouting along?

  4. ORANGE MAN BAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why is it at least 1/3rd of the stories on this site are basically just ORANGE MAN BAD. It's fucking exhausting.

    1. Re:ORANGE MAN BAD by Locke2005 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So your solution is "Stop reminding me that the orange man is bad!" rather than "Can't the orange man STOP being bad?"

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    2. Re:ORANGE MAN BAD by shilly · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because the orange man keeps on doing so much bad stuff. The floods of bad stuff are so gigantic that Slashdot barely covers any of it, and yet it still dominates the feed.

    3. Re:ORANGE MAN BAD by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I assume you're talking about the whole "gender" definition thing? Cause there were a lot of poeple explaining why it was dumb. For instance, a good percentage of people (1/200) are born with two sets of genitals. The percent of people who present normally but not just an XX or XY genome is higher than that. When you're talking about the government messing up 4.5 million people's lives, it matters. Esp. since there is no benefit.

      And note, that's all pure biology. If you factor in transgender people (and I personally think you should), it gets more ridiculous. But you don't have to.

      TL;DR the dictionary is usually a bad source for detailed information. Heck, even laws tend to use words in ways differently than the dictionary.

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    4. Re:ORANGE MAN BAD by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1, Informative

      Why is it at least 1/3rd of the stories on this site are basically just ORANGE MAN BAD.

      Well, to be fair, ORANGE MAN is pretty fucking bad. I mean, not just a little bit bad, but extraordinarily (and hilariously) bad. As in bad for the ages.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:ORANGE MAN BAD by Locke2005 · · Score: 2

      Not EVERYTHING delusional Donnie does is bad. However, I refuse to believe that being a dick just for the sake of being a dick is a good thing! And a lot of his supporters appear to love him for doing exactly that.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    6. Re: ORANGE MAN BAD by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why do you believe that? Objectively why?

      Well, let's start out with the most recent: Just a few hours ago, Donald Trump voiced his full & unwavering support for a Saudi leader who had a legal United States resident murdered, cut into pieces and his bones dissolved in acid. And this is a day after the story broke that his administration tried to help the Saudi leader cover up the murder and gave him advice on how to deflect the blame onto someone else. I'm pretty sure that on the morality scale, that falls somewhere South of "good"

      We can work backwards from there, but it might take a while because it's a very long list.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    7. Re:ORANGE MAN BAD by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      POPE RATZO MAN BAD!

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      You are welcome on my lawn.
    8. Re:ORANGE MAN BAD by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      In other words 'Orange Man Bad' since you've only presented a parody version of President Trump.

    9. Re:ORANGE MAN BAD by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      No, just somebody who never really posts anything nerd-related on this site. Basically, a political shill intruder. A comical one sometimes, but clearly somebody who doesn't belong here.

    10. Re: ORANGE MAN BAD by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Trump is standing with one of our key allies in the Middle East, one of the few nations willing to stand with us in the War on Terror.

      The men who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks were Saudi.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    11. Re:ORANGE MAN BAD by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      No, just somebody who never really posts anything nerd-related on this site. Basically, a political shill intruder. A comical one sometimes, but clearly somebody who doesn't belong here.

      You're just mad because you're a nobody and I'm the most beloved member of the Slashdot community nine years running. I've got a plaque and a coffee mug and everything.

      The people have spoken.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    12. Re:ORANGE MAN BAD by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      You are off by an order of magnitude; about 1 in 2000 are intersex.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    13. Re: ORANGE MAN BAD by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      What is your take on Anwar al-Awlaki and his murder? We're talking a real US citizen, not just a temporary resident. And yes, green card holders ARE temporary residents as they need to do their first renewal after 3 years - which had not passed for Khashoggi, meaning he was still temporary status.

      --
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    14. Re: ORANGE MAN BAD by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ex-Saudi, you mean.

      No True Saudi.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    15. Re:ORANGE MAN BAD by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Wow, did you read that? First, the range given was 1:1500 to 1:2000. Second, that's only to the degree a specialist had to be called in at birth. The article says how hard it is to get a firm number and the high estimate is 1:59 (the 1.7% number from the next paragraph). I maintain my 4.5 million people just on biology as being "pretty damn close".

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    16. Re:ORANGE MAN BAD by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      yeah but orange man is teh new black man!

      --
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    17. Re: ORANGE MAN BAD by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      According to slashdot editors 17.

    18. Re:ORANGE MAN BAD by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      Ahh the tried and true "everyone that disagrees with me is a NAZI!!" Will you guys ever learn?

    19. Re: ORANGE MAN BAD by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      That was done by BLACK MAN GOOD, so obviously, no problem.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  5. Was anything classified? by Sniper98G · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Everyone keeps comparing this to what Hillary did. Not sure why.

    She was using a non-government account for government business. Hillary set us her own email sever in an unoccupied house and transferred classified information on to it.

    These things are not comparable.

    1. Re: Was anything classified? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So its better that Ivanka used an email host that other parties had access to?

    2. Re:Was anything classified? by nwaack · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Everyone keeps comparing this to what Hillary did. Not sure why.

      Because ORANGE MAN BADDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111. I had to scroll through about 10 of these posts from some of my ultra-liberal friends on social media. They were just frothing-at-the-mouth livid about it. I would bet that not a single one them read anything more than the headline.

    3. Re:Was anything classified? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      They found a bunch of work and classified email chains in other people's mail archives that Hillary had deleted. That she only deleted personal email is an obvious and notorious lie. But the NPCs have their scripts.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    4. Re: Was anything classified? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The e-mails in question were sent before Ivanka was a Federal employee; she literally had NO legal access to a Government e-mail account at the time.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    5. Re:Was anything classified? by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      They just want to "probe" Ivanka. I mean, who doesn't?

      --

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  6. Re:Uh huh by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    Ivanka is just the President's daughter.

    Ivanka Trump is a Senior Adviser to the White House, who gets a nice taxpayer paycheck. She is not "just the President's daughter".

    We're about to see how well the "just the president's child" works for Don Jr.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  7. Re:There was classified on Hillery's server by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Friends don't let friends read Breitbart unironically.

  8. All I can say is... by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    Lock her up!!!
    Lock her up!!!
    Lock her up!!!

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  9. Re:Yawn by shilly · · Score: 2

    Thank goodness the President's daughter has no kind of official role in the Administration, otherwise you might look like a pillock who's attempting to be disingenuous by leaving out pertinent facts that even those with only a passing acquaintance with American politics are already aware of.

  10. Re:There was classified on Hillery's server by arbiter1 · · Score: 1

    Yea after the comey testimonies i think it was a senator said someone did hack Clinton's sever. He didn't say who did but they found that server was sending copies of all emails to a 3rd party. Like i said he didn't say who it was but he did say it WASN'T Russia.

  11. Re:Yawn by AlanObject · · Score: 1

    the President's daughter has no kind of official role in the Administration

    She is/was a paid advisor to the President. That is an official role.

  12. Release her pop's tax returns first by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    and go after him for violations of the emoluments clause. Then we can worry about little things like this. I don't want political theater designed to keep Clinton Democrats busy, I want the rule of law restored.

    --
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    1. Re:Release her pop's tax returns first by sexconker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The President has no obligation to release their tax returns.

      There are several clauses relating to emoluments. Regardless, Trump is in violation of none of them. Unless you can show he's receiving a title or favor from a foreign state, there's nothing there. Having foreign-based income doesn't count, by the way. Further, even if a sitting President is found to be in violation, Congress will just grant an exception.

      Try thinking. It might hurt at first, but you'll get the hang of it eventually.

    2. Re:Release her pop's tax returns first by meglon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yet the judges seem to think that the lawsuits against him have enough merit to continue. And when he goes through deposition, his tax returns will come out. Anyone with a clue can see what's going on, which begs the question... why are you such a fucking clueless idiot?

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    3. Re:Release her pop's tax returns first by swillden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are several clauses relating to emoluments.

      There are three. Two of them apply to the president, one barring him from receiving foreign emoluments, one barring him from receiving anything other than his salary from the federal government or the states. Regardless, Trump is in violation of none of them.

      Federal District Judge Peter Messitte thinks there might be.

      Further, even if a sitting President is found to be in violation, Congress will just grant an exception.

      That seems much less likely than it did 15 days ago.

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    4. Re:Release her pop's tax returns first by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Having foreign-based income doesn't count, by the way.

      Yes, it does.

      "Arguably, as the legal scholar Laurence Tribe and others have suggested, the clause would forbid even competitively fair transactions with foreign states, because the profit accruing to the officeholder would fall within the ordinary meaning of âoeemolument,â and because such arrangements would threaten exactly the kind of improper influence that the clause was intended to prevent."

    5. Re:Release her pop's tax returns first by swillden · · Score: 1

      Sorry, the "none of them" bit should have been quoted. That was from the post I replied to, not from me. I included the link to the court ruling allowing the emoluments suit to go forward.

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    6. Re:Release her pop's tax returns first by valnar · · Score: 1

      There is no policy that mandates somebody release their tax returns. That's a stupid "tradition". I didn't care about Obama, Clinton or Bush's either.

    7. Re:Release her pop's tax returns first by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Income in a foreign state is NOT the same thing as an emolument. He would have to be working FOR the government of the foreign state, or receiving titles or gifts from the government of the foreign state, for it to be an emolument.

      Holding property or business interests in a foreign state do NOT qualify as emoluments.

    8. Re:Release her pop's tax returns first by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Holding property or business interests in a foreign state do NOT qualify as emoluments.

      If the foreign interests pay him, yes, they do. Miriam-Webster gives one definition of "emolument" as a synonym for "advantage". This is an archaic definition, but we are debating text that was written in the 18th century.

  13. Re:Not a spectacle???? by arbiter1 · · Score: 2

    Spectacle cause they will looking for a crime this time instead of when it was Clinton, looking for way to make sure a crime wasn't found.

  14. Trump plot: Force Democrats to reveal true selves by SuperKendall · · Score: 1, Funny

    Pretty sure handing over the House to the Democrats was a Trump operation. After all, they only just barley took it over so it can easily be reversed next election.

    On top of that while no-one was noticing, the Republicans gained three more senate seats so replacing RPG will be even easier and almost ensures they will maintain control of the Senate even through the next election cycle.

    While the Senate and Trump do what they like, the House will be spending the next two years in a competition for most insane and pointless Demagoguery, which is what they have been building up for - going to be pretty amusing to watch!

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  15. Why bother ? by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

    If absolutely nothing happened to her Majesty ( Hillary ) for the crap she pulled, how can they possibly make any demands here ?

    Also, last I checked, The First Lady, unlike the Secretary of State, has zero impact on official government affairs.

    My guess is they simply want to use it as leverage in case someone ever decides to hold Hillary reaponsible for something ( LOL ).

    Like that will ever happen.

    1. Re:Why bother ? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1, Funny

      Also, last I checked, The First Lady, unlike the Secretary of State,

      Although Trump often acts like he wants to sleep with her, Ivanka is his daughter, not wife. Also, she's an official government employee, member of the staff, etc.

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    2. Re:Why bother ? by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Also, last I checked, The First Lady, unlike the Secretary of State, has zero impact on official government affairs.

      IVANKA = DAUGHTER

    3. Re:Why bother ? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      If absolutely nothing happened to her Majesty ( Hillary ) for the crap she pulled, how can they possibly make any demands here ?

      Just because it's not a felony doesn't mean it shouldn't be investigated. We don't want yet more high-level politicians gallivanting around with loose gov't emails.

    4. Re:Why bother ? by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      What do you guys stand to gain from confusing people into thinking Ivanka is Trumps wife, not his daughter? Is it because if this was his wife doing it, you think the rest of your statement would be true? I don't get it.

  16. Get it over with by Koby77 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Just charge both Hillary and Ivanka now with violating Espionage Act and be done with it already. Let the chips fall where they may.

    1. Re:Get it over with by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Okay, lock them both up. Settled!

      Ahh, bipartisanship.

  17. Re:Not a spectacle???? by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

    Not only that, but with most of the mainstream media solidly anti-Trump, it's going to be a three-ring circus no matter what the Democrats in Congress want.

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  18. It was irrelevant, but yes by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    So its better that Ivanka used an email host that other parties had access to?

    Humorously it is actually better in two ways (at least):

    1) Since Ivanka is not dealing with classified emails, it's better if other parties can have access to that, vs. the other parties of Hillarys server (including a non-government admin and every hacker from St Petersburg to Shanghai).

    2) In fact it is outright better that third parties have access to Ivanka's emails because they are SUPPOSED TO - remember a big part of the deal was Hillary was hiding her emails from any records retention, and indeed many thousands of emails were destroyed and unrecoverable by her hench-people.

    Other people are SUPPOSED TO be able to see Ivanka's emails.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:It was irrelevant, but yes by meglon · · Score: 1

      We won't know if she emailed any classified material for at least 28 months. Then again, anything else we find... like her receiving preferential treatment for her trademarks from China will also be know by then too.

      You dumbshit neo-nazi GOP cunts always seem to set up strawmen just to knock them down. Why don't you pull your head out of your ass and try living in reality instead?

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  19. Re: Uh huh by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    Except she wasn't a White House employee when she sent those emails and you know it.

    Yes, she was. The emails were sent in 2017. She's been a Senior White House adviser on the government payroll since January 22, 2017. She used her personal email to conduct White House business throughout 2017.

    #BENGHAZI
    #TRUSTTHEPLAN
    #WWG1WGA
    #STABLEGENIUS

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  20. Re: Uh huh by Reaper9889 · · Score: 1

    I am a bit unsure about much of what you write.

    Trump is not popular. Yes, in the last strecth of time he has started to be comparable to previous presidents (he is not doing that much worse than the least popular of them), but he has only ever been better off than one president in net approval at the samepoint in their presidency (to be direct, he has been more popular than Truman 3 months in total or so, so far).

    It was a blue wave, for any reasonable definition. They got the 3rd greatest election (in vote margin) since 92 and the democrats are typically worse in midterms.

    Numbers from https://fivethirtyeight.com/fe...
    and https://projects.fivethirtyeig...

  21. Re:Trump plot: Force Democrats to reveal true selv by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

    the Republicans gained three more senate seats so replacing RPG will be even easier and almost ensures they will maintain control of the Senate even through the next election cycle.

    Maybe two, maybe three. One is at a runoff. But the Democrats won the majority of seats up for grabs this year. Keep in mind, they had half their Senate seats up for election, the republicans only had 25%. And, in 2020 it's reversed. Esp. since Collins and a lot of other moderate Republicans are up. I imagine a democratic senate is likely to show up.

    Now, you're right about RBG's replacement, if that happens. But it doesn't seem to matter. They already put whomever on the court.

    You also don't seem to understand that the whole House stands for election, so the margin this year doesn't really matter for next year. But, the home of Nixon and Reagan went blue for the first time in a century.

    While the Senate and Trump do what they like

    You mean, aside from pass laws. Yeah, they can fuck up the judiciary, but other than that they're pretty unable to effect change.

    Trump just isn't a stunning genius. His skill is media manipulation and flooding the zone. And yes, Dems shouldn't swing at this. It's not important.

    --
    Your ad here. Ask me how!
  22. Dems learned their lesson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The Dems rolled over for the first few years Obama was in office and didn't go after Bush II for his crimes, they played nice and lost Congress. Hopefully the Dems in the house have learned that lesson and will payback the current administration for the 25 years of character assassination the Pugs have been pulling since Willie was in office.

    Maybe they will even go back and look at the treason of Drug Lord Bush I.

  23. Even the Trumpites call her his wife, lol. by Grog6 · · Score: 1

    LOL.

    --
    Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
  24. Re:Lock Her up!!! by Ultra64 · · Score: 1

    Yeah, the mid-terms were just a taste of what's going to happen to the Democrats.

  25. Re:Trump plot: Force Democrats to reveal true selv by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You attribute way too much to Trump.

    He lives by one simple rule: whatever happens, he will exploit it and then pretend it was what he wanted all along. If he'd lost the presidency, he was all set to pivot to opening his own media channels, and I don't doubt he'd then have claimed that his presidential run was basically a publicity stunt (which quite a few people said it was anyway).

    Watch how he reacts to things. Caravan of migrants? Publicity! Wildfires? Attack depts he wants cut! Khashoggi murder? Opportunity to paint Democrats as wanting to destroy jobs! He didn't engineer any of these things, he doesn't want them to happen, but since they persist in happening anyway he knows how to turn them to his advantage. That's his greatest skill. And now he's going to encourage the Democrats to make themselves look ridiculous with this "probe", and by association to discredit the much more serious Mueller probe that he actually is worried about. Just watch.

  26. Re:Yawn by sexconker · · Score: 1

    She was not at the time this occurred. Further, no classified emails were involved.

  27. Re:Lock Her up!!! by sexconker · · Score: 1

    They got burned in 2018. It was one of the weakest midterm flips of all time. Typically the midterms flip HARD against the new President's party.

  28. Re:Trump plot: Force Democrats to reveal true selv by sexconker · · Score: 1

    The margins for this year vs. 2020 absolutely matter for both the house and the senate.

    Why? Because 2020 is a Presidential election year. More people will vote, and the candidates will be more aligned with their parties and the parties will work to support their respective candidates. Trump, being the incumbent, will be very hard to defeat, so his party will have a huge advantage.

  29. Re:Trump plot: Force Democrats to reveal true selv by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe two, maybe three. One is at a runoff. But the Democrats won the majority of seats up for grabs this year.

    They were expected to win more than they did.

    But it doesn't seem to matter. They already put whomever on the court.

    No, the Republicans put carefully considered and middle of the road SC candidates forward - because they thought it mattered and were expecting rational debate. Now they know none of that is true so expect the next candidate to really be a far right option, thanks to what the Democrats did to the very middle of the road candidates the Republicans offered. That is why what the Democrats did was tactically insane.

    You also don't seem to understand that the whole House stands for election

    I don't think you understand what *I* am saying relies on exactly that point. After two years of utter Democratic lunacy on open display what do you think will happen to the whole House? It will be savage, absolutely savage for the Democrats next election if they do even just the things they are promising to do.

    You mean, aside from pass laws. Yeah, they can fuck up the judiciary, but other than that they're pretty unable to effect change.

    Ha ha ha you think law is the only way to effect change. HA HAH AHAH HA HAAH PHOHAH AHAH HA H AHHA AH AH AHAHA HAHA HAH AH AH AH A AH AHHAHA HA HAH.

    Trump just isn't a stunning genius. His skill is media manipulation and flooding the zone

    As they say, in the land of the blind... and Trump is in the land of politicians.

    But Trump doesn't have to be a genius for any of what I say to come to pass. The Democrats just have to be complete idiots, which they have managed to show they can in fact hold to for years in a row now, with only acceleration along that vector evident. They appear to have zero sense of what effective long term tactics would be.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  30. Training class snafu blame by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    For one, H was not properly trained on security matters. She somehow missed the class(es). She had a "briefing", but a briefing is not the formal class.

    And many legal documents use "(c)" to mean a sequential list (a, b, c, d, etc.). See link below.

    I don't know who to blame for her missing the class, but typically I would NOT hold a CEO responsible for mis-managing a security training roster. The head of security should probably be held accountable. They should have a tracking system in place. Jail that guy.

    Second, a personal server is not necessarily worse than a hosted service like GMAIL or AOL. I've seen no solid studies saying it is; and H shouldn't be expected to know the tech nitty gritty of that debate anyhow. Her job was diplomacy, not IT. (Quality generally depends on the skill and dedication of the server admins, not the box location.)

    Third, usage of an outside email service/server was NOT outright prohibited at the State Department. However, she was technically supposed to get approval for such first. Not getting approval is not a felony since it's a policy manual, not law. I'm sure I violate the letter of our org's policy manual all the time without knowing it.

    "(c)" example: https://leginfo.legislature.ca....

    1. Re:Training class snafu blame by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      For one, H was not properly trained on security matters. She somehow missed the class(es). She had a "briefing", but a briefing is not the formal class.

      Yeah, that's a lie. Why else would she have specifically told staff not to use private e-mail? She knew fully what she was doing was wrong - and even sent out reminders to staff to NOT do what she was doing.

      --
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    2. Re:Training class snafu blame by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I don't see the connection with that and security courses.

      I agree her request was hypocrisy, but that's not the topic here.

    3. Re:Training class snafu blame by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      So you excuse her actions because you claim "she wasn't officially trained" yet she was sending out e-mails telling people to not do exactly what she did. Right - she was ignorant of the laws...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    4. Re:Training class snafu blame by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Addendum. Her request to her staff may have had nothing to do with security, per se. We don't know why she asked such; we don't have mind-reading technology. There could be operational convenience reasons that are not security-related. There's a good chance Hanlon's razor applies.

    5. Re:Training class snafu blame by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      I didn't excuse her actions, I'm only saying you are guessing her thought process & motivations using insufficient information. We should value science, math, logic, and evidence here on Slashdot; not personal guesses.

    6. Re:Training class snafu blame by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      She knew enough to tell people working for her "don't use personal e-mail". Then she went and used personal e-mail. Thought process? None. Motivation? I can think of hundreds of reasons - but it was clearly illegal, and she even told people about it. Logic and evidence says she fully knew what she was doing was wrong - her own directive proves as much.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    7. Re:Training class snafu blame by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      She signed off that she took the training, a requirement to get a security clearance. Your claim is lame.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    8. Re:Training class snafu blame by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      OK then. Here is the evidence. She purposefully enabled the movement of highly classified material outside of secured areas, and since she signed off that she received the training, she knew the consequences for doing so...your red herrings not withstanding.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    9. Re:Training class snafu blame by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      Fortunately, we have no need to read her mind or know her reasons. The particular laws covering the handling of secret materials makes no allowance for either intent or ignorance. In fact, it specifically states that neither is an excuse.

      Now, can you please find someone deserving to be an apologist for?

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    10. Re:Training class snafu blame by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      since she signed off that she received the training

      Incorrect. She attended a briefing, NOT the "full" class. She signed off on the briefing, but the briefing is not the same as the course. (Whether the briefing covered security markings and outside email service approval procedures is not known.)

    11. Re:Training class snafu blame by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Sorry, you are a fake lawyer.

    12. Re:Training class snafu blame by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      it was clearly illegal

      Not. Our laws were vague. I didn't write them, I'm just the messenger.

    13. Re:Training class snafu blame by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      She signed off that she took the training

      No, she signed off on a briefing, not the full class. She didn't take the full class due to administrative lapses.

  31. The previous administration made it clear by guruevi · · Score: 2

    that this is allowed, if not expected. Moreover, the Trump family could easily destroy all the evidence during the investigation.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  32. Goalposts: Moved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Re: "Everyone keeps comparing this to what Hillary did. Not sure why."

    Really? You can't see why people compare this? Hillary's e-mail was a key election issue, and it was so because the Republicans made it that way. So now a government employee, in the White House, misuses e-mail, and you can't see the connection.

    You've moved the goalposts again and thus revealed your hypocrisy. "Ivanka's use of e-mail is totally not the same as Hillary's use of e-mail!"

    By your claim, a story about a dog is different than a story about a dog with fleas. Only the fleas are different, but you can't see the difference. Huh.

    I'll bet that if Chelsea Clinton, in a Hillary Clinton presidency, had done this, you'd be going apeshit. If you cannot be honest about that then you are a hack and a partisan.

  33. What ought to be the real scandal by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

    The fact people using administration messaging systems can receive messages from arbitrary Internet domains via comically insecure SMTP at will is what congress should be investigating.

    1. Re:What ought to be the real scandal by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      We all know that would involve them learning shit and these people don't learn from anything.

  34. Re:Trump plot: Force Democrats to reveal true selv by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 2

    They were expected to win more than they did

    Not according to polls. And not according to history. I mean, you have to go back to Nixon's impeachment^W resignation to get a similar bump.

    the Republicans put carefully considered and middle of the road SC candidates forward

    They're just drawing them from the Heritage Foundation list. That's all that's going to happen. And, I'm not sure who you think sits to the far-right compared to these people.

    Now, maybe Trump tries to put his sister on the court, if he thinks he can push that through.

    The Democrats just have to be complete idiots ... They appear to have zero sense of what effective long term tactics would be.

    Well, we can definitely agree on this.

    --
    Your ad here. Ask me how!
  35. Russia, I hope you're listening... by Narcocide · · Score: 1

    ... turn about is fair play! Let's leak those emails!!! For the lols and great justice!

    1. Re:Russia, I hope you're listening... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Russia and China are still sitting on their copies of the deleted Hillary emails. Those are potentially valuable blackmail material.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  36. Ivanka AND Hillary by gabrieltss · · Score: 1

    If your for going after Ivanka - you MUST be in favor or going back after Hillary. Or your a FUCKING Hippocrate! They both basically did the same thing. Granted Hillary did it much worse! But both are criminal!

    LOCK THEM BOTH UP!

    It only proves BOTH parties are criminal and need to be expelled from government. Both the Democrats AND Republicans should be expelled - and no longer allowed to run our government in ANY fashion!

    --
    The Truth is a Virus!!!
    1. Re:Ivanka AND Hillary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hippocrate! /p>

      Ooh, ooh, >I can be the father of western medicine!

      In that case, I am definitely not in favor of going after Hillary!

    2. Re:Ivanka AND Hillary by meglon · · Score: 2

      We had 28 months of Hillary being investigated (after 8 prior investigations on the same subject), and there were no charges. 28 months of Ivanka being investigated,and we'll see if there are any charges to be had. The hypocrites in this case would be all the whiny little bitches who foamed at the mouth for Hillary to be investigated (she was), but for Ivanka to not be investigated.

      What needs to happen is you to pull your head out of your ass and learn what words mean before using them.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  37. Exactly! by raymorris · · Score: 2

    Sometimes I think the founders designed the systen to keep the bossy people busy arguing so they couldn't actually effectively boss the rest of us around. It took over 200 years for them to manage to become really bothersome.

  38. Re:NOPE! TRUMP GOES TO PRISON. by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    I don't think the penalty for violation of the Federal Records Act is life in prison... it's probably just a fine that she can easily afford to pay.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  39. Re:Trump plot: Force Democrats to reveal true selv by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    They're just drawing them from the Heritage Foundation list. That's all that's going to happen.

    No, that is all that DID happen. And since they were savaged for those moderate candidates, they next one can be off-script. I wouldn't imagine Trump is prone to stick to a script for very long!

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  40. Perfect Trojan Horse by njhunter · · Score: 1

    I had wondered why Trump didn't pursue Hillary further but he's going to let the Progressives create the framework.

  41. Re:Trump plot: Force Democrats to reveal true selv by meglon · · Score: 1

    You are,truly and by far, a complete fucking idiot. In 2020 there's 21 GOP seats up compared to only 11 DNC. In 2022 another 22 GOP seats compared to 11 DNC. Seriously, do you even have a functioning brain cell left?

    --
    Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  42. Re: Pope Ratzo still wrong, as always by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    March 29, 2017: Officially becomes a federal employee

    So, she worked as a Senior Adviser for nine months last year, during which she conducted White House business via a personal email account. The January date was just when she moved into her own office in the West Wing. She has been on the government payroll since 3/29/2017.

    Thank you for clearing that up.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  43. So, lynch Trump the younger... by zkiwi34 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Who didnâ(TM)t deliberately set up a private email server and spread classified and top secret documents like it was confetti to swathes of people without clearance.

    Itâ(TM)s zero about right/wrong, correct process, even the law. Itâ(TM)s about being as big a set of hypocritical assholes as is possible, always trying to outdo the other guy.

    If Trump junior deserves censure, Clinton deserves to be subject to the penalties for unauthorized disclosure of classified information. In the United States this is a crime under the Espionage Act of 1917. Those who are found in violation of this crime against the government face broad and wide-ranging criminal sanctions. The bollocks that she didnâ(TM)t know etc never flew.

  44. Lawmakers don't want to hang themselves by Tablizer · · Score: 2

    Leaving any classified info in any unsecured location is instant violation, there is No Gray area in the law

    That's not true. It's possible that one doesn't know it's classified, and/or that it was an inadvertent accident. As I mentioned elsewhere, H didn't receive proper training, and the markings do resemble those used in legal documents.

    Now if somebody is properly trained AND accidentally expose or put-at-risk classified materials, the legal standard is "gross negligence", which is typically a pretty high hurdle. Ordinary accidents by themselves don't usually lead to felonies. Dismissal and fines, perhaps, but probably not jail.

    After all, many of the lawmakers would be subject to the very secrecy laws they write, and they don't want to be jailed for their own inadvertent mistakes. Thus, they usually write it up as requiring either "intent" or large-scale repeat screwups.

    Being H wasn't properly trained, "gross negligence" probably doesn't qualify. It took a chain of people screwing up incrementally to pull that off (including the training roster manager).

    There's also the issue that H was supposed to hand over all work-related emails to the court per subpoena. However, some were inadvertently excluded, considered "personal" by her team. But, there was no evidence they were intentionally excluded, because the later-recovered "excluded" emails didn't contain anything of significance in terms of making a case of "intentional". The lawyers she hired were essentially sloppy in their review process.

    To be fair, if the average person had to read roughly 20k emails and sort them ALL properly based on the text, they'd probably screw up a handful. Thus, it's ordinary negligence, not "gross" negligence. A jury is not likely to convict based on a mistake they themselves might make.

    Essentially, the laws as written are weak because lawmakers don't want to screw themselves.

    1. Re:Lawmakers don't want to hang themselves by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      Hillary wasn't properly trained? What kind of bizarre nonsense is that? She was a lawyer that worked on the Watergate investigation. She was FLOTUS who took an active role in Bill's administration. She was a US Senator. She was Secretary of State. She SIGNED off on her training. It was the same training every other employee gets. And NOW you say she is innocent because ... IGNORANT?!!

      You sir, are ABSURD.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    2. Re:Lawmakers don't want to hang themselves by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      She SIGNED off on her training.

      As I mentioned elsewhere, that is NOT true. She attended a "briefing", not their formal class. She signed off on the briefing, not the formal class.

  45. Not here by shaksys · · Score: 1

    Would love to stop seeing american politics. Thanks.

  46. Yes, he does by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    when he's under investigation for violation of the emoluments clause. Which he will be soon. The Dems, assuming they have any backbone, will be nailing him to the wall over that. Not because of partisanship (though they could do with a bit more of that, ever since that bastard Gingrich started open war in the House the Dems have been getting their asses kicked and the country is much worse off for it) but because having a president who can and will be bought off by foreign powers is terrifying. That's something we should all agree on.

    --
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  47. Re:Uh huh by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    She wasn't when she used personal e-mail; in fact, at that time, it would have been a crime for her to use a Federal Government e-mail BEFORE she was an employee. When the e-mails in question were sent, she was, in fact "just the President's daughter".

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  48. Re:Lock Her up!!! by paazin · · Score: 1

    They got burned in 2018. It was one of the weakest midterm flips of all time. Typically the midterms flip HARD against the new President's party.

    Pretty much, yeah: https://fivethirtyeight.com/fe...

  49. Re:Goalposts: Moved! by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    Re: "Everyone keeps comparing this to what Hillary did. Not sure why."

    Really? You can't see why people compare this? Hillary's e-mail was a key election issue, and it was so because the Republicans made it that way.

    No, HILLARY made it that way, by breaking the law, and then apparently using behind-the-scenes maneuvers to get off, even though the FBI found her guilty of breaking the law. Hillary showed that she was above the "rules for the rest of us", and that turned off a LOT of people.

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  50. Re:Uh huh by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    The same article says personal email accounts were used through August of 2017.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  51. Re:Trump plot: Force Democrats to reveal true selv by fafalone · · Score: 1

    Middle of the road? That's a laugh. Gorsuch was, and really the best we could have hoped for coming from any Republican these days, and honestly I prefer him over Garland. Kavanaugh, on the other hand, was not even close to middle of the road. He's as extreme right as SCOTUS candidates get on every single issue. And he was nominated to fill a swing-voting Justice's seat, dooming us to a generation of rulings shitting all over the parts of the Constitution not related to guns and god. That, combined with legitimately disqualifying issues like a (single) credible allegation, but more importantly how he lied, conducted himself, and spouted partisan rhetoric after which any claim he'd be politically neutral should be met with laughter, and it's no wonder Democrats were hysterical and tried every trick in the book to block him. But ultimately, once again Republicans showed how absolutely nothing is more important than the Party and getting Party Members into the courts. Just like with all of them bending the knee to Trump, it's Party before country.

    I also remember quite a bit of right wing nutters like you crowing about how the Democrats 'derangement' over Trump was supposed to make them fail to retake the House etc. this election. Guess the goalposts have moved and it will be next election that their shenanigans cost them. Though admittedly they do seem to be engaged in a process of finding another nominee somehow also capable of losing to Trump; with Kamala Harris leading the field. As I've explained before, her anti-civil rights past as a tough-on-crime prosecutor and current SJW insanity makes her toxic enough to enough people that Democrats will sit it out again. And if they make a pointless show of impeachment (oh yes please try in vain to get us President Pence!), doubly so.

  52. Re:Trump plot: Force Democrats to reveal true selv by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Kavanaugh is to the left of Gorsuch, and had something like 90% of a similar voting record to Garland.

    Kavanaugh was like Garland with a slight right lean; almost exactly what the Democrats wanted all along (apart from the slight rightward leaning).

    It's sad that you and others are buying into what the media is feeding you about Kavanaugh instead of looking at his voting record.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  53. Re:Uh huh by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    Not by Ivanka. Read again...

    --
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  54. Re:Uh huh by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Not by Ivanka. Read again...

    You're reading a statement from the White House, for what that's worth. Throwing Jared under the bus to save Donald's side-piece, Ivanka.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  55. Re:Uh huh by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    Where does it say anything about Ivanka e-mailing in August? You're wrong - you just don't want to admit it because ORANGE MAN BAD.

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  56. Re:Uh huh by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    ORANGE MAN BAD.

    He is pretty bad, I agree, but I don't think you need to bring his skin color into this.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  57. Re:Yawn by shilly · · Score: 1

    I was being sarcastic.

  58. Re:Yawn by shilly · · Score: 2, Informative

    The fact that the events happened a while ago does not make this old news. It only came to light now and that is why it is new news. I'm glad to be able to clear that confusion up for you. What's old news is the fact that the President himself has used an unsecured phone from the outset and conducts business pertaining to national security in insecure locations, such as dining rooms with members of the public present. It would be new news if he went to jail for that. It would also be the right thing to happen, but it won't.

    I'm glad you think that what we know about what Ivanka did so far is unimportant. Personally, I'm not much minded to just take the word of people who clearly have an interest in downplaying the severity of the breach, but I'm thrilled for you that you think they're trustworthy.

  59. Re: I'd like to "probe" Ivanka too. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Son... that ruler is in centimeters...

  60. They never learn by rojash · · Score: 1

    The last 20 times these nits tried to make the Trump royals abide by rules, they failed miserably. They are just wasting our taxpayer $ on futile attempts. Trump is a master of distraction and manipulation who seems to overcome anything thrown at him.

  61. Re:Yawn by rickb928 · · Score: 1

    "no classified emails were involved"

    Not a very high bar...

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  62. You know, I thought it was paid shilling... by Grog6 · · Score: 1

    But now I'm forced to admit that people Really Are that stupid.

    Whooda thunkit; A cheeto would being out the real America. :facepalm:

    --
    Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
  63. Re:Fair is fair Nope by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

    Her father was failing against Hilary using non gov email for MONTHS. Ivanka's defense was no one told her it was illegal. That's a very different situation.

  64. Re:She was a govt. official before an employee. by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

    She wasn't an official before she was hired and had access to a Federal e-mail account. Dumbass.

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  65. Re:Fair is fair Nope by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

    "As long as they believe Ivanka didn't intend any harm, she's let off the hook for any violations." was one of the items listed. It worked for Hillary; it will work here as well.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  66. Re:Uh huh by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

    Are you trying to lie to us or yourself? All you are doing here is your normal hand wave of facts and then doubling down on lies you know for a fact are lies. How do you live with yourself? People like you are why we have Donald Trump in the first place. Learn to be less of a follower.

  67. don't be Childish by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    We don't say, you can't arrest me till you arrest every bank robber. that's not how it works.

    At issue here in both cases in not your childish argument but a larger principle. People in power get treated like they are above the law.

    THis needs to stop.

    THe concern you are reflecting comes down to selective enforcement. If only democrats or only black people, or only poor people get prosecuted under a set of statues it is selective. Can't have that either.

    But that does not mean that just because a law was not previously enforced they cannot start doing it.

    An even larger discussion is, is there a reason why these laws keep get broken-- perhaps they are too onerous. perhaps the law is just too tricky to know and do the right thing so mistakes get made by people acting reasonably.

    I fully agree that the govt restrictions using govt phone for personal use lead to a hazard of people using personal phones for govt use. Having to carry two phones is a hassle. FOr people like Clinton, who is on call-24-7 even when on vacation it means you always have two phone not just when you are "at work". You have the hassle of accidentally mixing types of discussions when personal bussiness and govt bussiness happen to be the same contact for different reasons. I'd prefer it if people did do personal bussiness on govt phone so we have a record when that happens.

    Thus the bottom line is:

    1. Ivanka broke the law
    2. She should not get off because she's the president's daughter. Were already in nepotism territory already
    3. and we should separately fix the laws so this isn't so hard to comply with.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  68. Re:What penalty will stick? by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

    Bullets.

  69. Re:Goalposts: Moved! by Shotgun · · Score: 1

    Really? You can see the difference between material that has been classified as secret and above, and a discussion of where to meet to talk about getting hired? You can't see what people would draw a distinction?

    The goalpost is sunk in concrete. Things just keep moving in your delusional world.

    --
    Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
    Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  70. Re:Trump plot: Force Democrats to reveal true selv by Shotgun · · Score: 1

    They were expected to win more than they did

    Not according to polls. And not according to history. I mean, you have to go back to Nixon's impeachment^W resignation to get a similar bump.

    Really? You're just going to skip right over 2010? Just act like it didn't happen?

    --
    Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
    Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  71. Re:Trump plot: Force Democrats to reveal true selv by Shotgun · · Score: 1

    That, combined with legitimately disqualifying issues like a (single) credible allegation,

    Which allegation was that? Ford's claims were so full of holes that it left the flat earthers stunned. What made them credible?

    --
    Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
    Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  72. Re:Uh huh by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    People like you are why we have Donald Trump in the first place.

    Do you understand what it means when you say this? It means that Trump's followers do so only out of a sense of grievance and hatred and not for any positive reason. Is that how you really feel about yourself?

    This Thanksgiving, I pray that you're able to find some motivation in life besides grievance and hatred. Stop being a victim and be more positive. Find something you love and let that motivate you, even if it happens to be a pillow printed with an anime character.

    Have a blessed holiday!

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  73. Re:Uh huh by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

    Same to you, you're still full of shit. At least you're nice about it. Happy Thanksgiving.

  74. Re:I'd like to "probe" Ivanka too. by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    Only hipsters still listen to vinyl!

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  75. Re:Trump plot: Force Democrats to reveal true selv by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

    Republican waves are higher than Democratic ones as far as seats go. It's a structural imbalance (gerrymandering + rural states having more representatives per person). But, yes, the blue wave beat 2010 on the popular vote.

    --
    Your ad here. Ask me how!
  76. Re:Yawn by sexconker · · Score: 1

    Yet it's a very relevant one given you-know-who.

  77. Re: Yawn by rickb928 · · Score: 1

    What? Who?

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    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.