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'The Supremacy of Japanese Cars Has Been 40-Plus Years In the Making' (bloomberg.com)
American business journalist Joe Nocera writes in a Bloomberg article about "how badly things have deteriorated for the U.S. car makers," after the recent news that both General Motors and Ford will soon be exiting the sedan market in the country. Slashdot reader gollum123 shares the report: Much of the analysis about Ford and GM's exit from the sedan market stressed that sedan sales have lost ground in recent years "as consumers have gravitated toward pickup trucks and sport-utility vehicles," as the New York Times put it. If you look at the historical sales figures of the top Japanese sedans, you'll see a small decline in recent years, but nothing like the big drop-off in sales that have hammered the American companies. So in addition to the overall decline in sedan sales, there is a second, largely overlooked, dynamic taking place: Americans have only stopped buying American sedans, not Japanese sedans. The American car companies now say they are going to count on profits from trucks and SUVs while moving toward autonomous and all-electric vehicles. They had better hope that transition takes place quickly.
I couldn't help noticing that while the top three selling vehicles in the U.S. are, indeed, American-made trucks, No. 4 on the list is Nissan's top SUV, the Rogue, the sales of which have gone from 18,000 in 2007 to 403,000 last year. No. 5 is a Toyota SUV, the Rav4 (407,000 in 2017). No. 6 is the Honda CR-V (378,000). And the leading American SUV? It's the Chevy Equinox. Last year, Chevrolet sold 290,000 of them -- 100,000 fewer than the Toyota Camry.
I couldn't help noticing that while the top three selling vehicles in the U.S. are, indeed, American-made trucks, No. 4 on the list is Nissan's top SUV, the Rogue, the sales of which have gone from 18,000 in 2007 to 403,000 last year. No. 5 is a Toyota SUV, the Rav4 (407,000 in 2017). No. 6 is the Honda CR-V (378,000). And the leading American SUV? It's the Chevy Equinox. Last year, Chevrolet sold 290,000 of them -- 100,000 fewer than the Toyota Camry.
Honda just hit 300k miles. You'd be lucky to get 80k from a GM or Chrysler
US companies are like France. When it gets hard they either surrender or run.
American cars are generally very reliable, but not as reliable as Japanese and Korean makes.
I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
Ford, GM and Chrysler haven't given a shit about selling cars since the 1960s. As far as they're concerned, the car is just a tool for selling you a loan.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I'm on my third one, a 2013 200 Limited @ 74k miles. Bought with just 25 miles.
Had a 2004 Dodge Intrepid before that, bought with 60k miles, sold @ 150k. No problems other than with the right rear window regulator.
First car was a 1997 Chrysler Concorde, bought with 45k miles, totalled at 110k due to being sideswiped. No problems from that car too.
Just oil changes, tires, brakes, batteries, bulbs and wiper blades, plus the occasional coolant flush and trans drain and fill. All my Chryslers were just as reliable as Honda/Toyota.
Once the US automakers have all gone belly-up, someone should buy the rights to their body designs at the bankruptcy auction, and sell vehicles with modern drive trains that look like the classic American designs.
I'd buy a carbon-fiber version of a 1970 fastback Mustang in a heartbeat. I'm sure plenty of people would go for a '57 Chevy or a '69 Corvette stingray, too.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Odd, they don't show the declines for Toyota & Honda sedans each month in 2018 (so far). Seems to have mysteriously ignored that data.
Thereâ(TM)s a hefty import tariff on trucks: https://mobile.twitter.com/rea.... A lot of Japanese companies are more American in fact than âoeAmericanâ ones if you consider where they manufacture their cars. Quite often âoeAmericanâ cars are manufactured in Mexico.
These American brands are so full of foreign parts that I stopped caring about "Buying American" as the foreign brands are often more American than the native labels. Then it's just about who is raking in the money at the top, and I don't care about that.
You are both delusional.
I blame the demise of the American car companies on the metric system. Once the world went metric, American companies were left in a bind. On the one hand, they wanted to stay on American standards, but then third party components only come in metric, forcing them to make vehicles that incorporate mostly American standard nuts and bolts, but with the occassional metric one thrown in here and there just to make life miserable for people trying to actually work on their vehicle. Eventually, people got sick and tired of this and decided to always buy Japanese or European cars in the future because then you'd be 100% certain that EVERYTHING is metric and thus only have to lug around one set of METRIC tools instead of carrying around two sets of everything for no good reason.
Given how the modern automotive industry works, I'm not sure if it matters. Japan manufacturers a lot of the cars that it sells in the U.S., in the U.S. so I don't think there's much worry over jobs being lost. Also, all of the Japanese companies are publicly traded, with a few of the largest shareholders being American companies, American banks, or other foreign firms that are in turn partially owned by Americans. If it gets American companies to invest in electric vehicles in the hope of regaining market share, I don't see how anyone could really complain.
He knows that. He doesn't care. He just copy and pastes what they pay him to. Don't confuse this guy for a US citizen so angry and dedicated that he simply can't help but troll every single article with off-topic drivel. He's just another paid Russian troll. Over there, they're just called "human bots." But it's actually cheaper than writing software to do this. How this helps the Russians exactly is unclear to me, unless they just pettily see making both sides angrier as a goal in and of itself, like some old 90's era internet meme about the Satanic Bavarian Illuminati playing both the winning and losing side so that no matter which side wins they win.
90% of the country lives in an urban environment and work at white color jobs. What a bunch a phonies.
cars.
Rust was the worst issue, but when Japanese and Korean cars started flooding the market for less money and lasting about 30-50% better (in terms of mileage and gas economy)
it seemed to be a wake-up call for US car makers. This was hubris on the part of Ford, Chevrolet, Chrysler... They had their cheaply manufactured, planned obsolescence system and they were going to stick with it.
I'm guessing at this point, more US vehicles are produced in Canada and places like the Toyota factory in South Carolina build more vehicles than Detroit.
New technology (self driving cars, electric cars...) eventually mean that people don't need to buy a vehicle unless it's for work. Need a ride someplace, just order a car...
Hard to mourn the end of the "American" car maker.
In a perverse and odd turn of events, Japanese cars are made in America, and Ford/GM are frequently made in Mexico, Canadian, Germany, China, or elsewhere.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/sc-auto-cover-0628-most-american-made-cars-20180621-story.html
So, if you want a car made by an American car company, buy a Honda.
So this story is not about American car companies, its about multinationals that started life in the US but are more multinational rather then American.
I guess normal sized cars don't burn up enough resources and churn out enough pollution for 'Muricans. Need to drive trucks to the office and supermarket instead. Well, I'm gonna go one better and buy me a fire truck to drive. Bet I can park it anywhere I like too.
Study US and UK weather conditions.
Listen to what people who buy and sell cars say about local conditions.
Cold morning in winter? Car has to start to get car owner to work on time. Test car during design until it can start in cold weather conditions.
Understand normal people have jobs and have to get to work on time. Having a car that can start without needing repair work is important.
Understand the politics of pollution. Have something like CVCC ready for political winning.
Make car look great every year.
Car should drive well for size.
Understand reliability in different harsh export markets. Find smart engineers who understand engine design for dust, heat, cold.
Have spare parts. Have support network for parts all over nations car is exported to. Support should be easy for any skilled mechanic.
Make good marketing in nation for a good car.
Have car inspected before it is sold to ensure all parts work and are in good condition on a new car.
No strange gaps and missing parts on a new car.
Keep up with advancements in engine technology in years not over decades.
Dont test new robots on a production line. Select only the best skilled workers.
Use robots and skilled workers selected on merit to ensure quality car production every year.
Make car size people want with very different technology to support new car deign weight and size.
Dont design decades old heavy engine into every new car. Think about power and weight in a new way.
Dont meet pollution standards by altering a decades old heavy engine. Have the advanced engineering skills to have a new engine ready.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Japanese cars are less reliable than before, and they're slow to adapt to BEV vehicles, and for some reason they're pushing Hydrogen.
In 20 years it will be all American and Chinese battery operated cars.
I wanted to buy a Chevy Cruise back in 2012, but then I remembered how much "fun" my GM Alero had been. Also, I was still stinging from the $1000s I lost in stock when GM got its bailout. I bought a Mazda 3i and I love it. By by American cars forever.
According to https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-gm-plant-closing-restructuring-20181126-story.html, six models were scrapped at GM: the Buick LaCrosse, the Cadillac CT6/XTS, and the Chevrolet Cruze/Volt (but not the similarly-named all-electric Chevrolet Bolt).
There are still a number of other sedans listed at https://www.gmfleet.com/overview/cars.html including the Buick Regal/Verano, Cadillact ATS/CTS, Chevrolet Bolt/Impala/Malibu/Sonic/Spark, so "exiting the sedan market" seems to be a bit of an exaggeration unless more model cancellations are planned.
The real story here is the job losses and a man in the White House who sold people on the idea that he alone could wave a wand and magically fix them (which means we also get to credit him with a failure to do so).
Honda just hit 300k miles. You'd be lucky to get 80k from a GM or Chrysler
Maybe with GM and FCA, but our Fords have easily hit the 200,000 mile limit ,
with more on the clock, for the second owners.
I've seen suburbans hit 300k+ if they're taken care of. At some point it's more reliable to buy a new (well, a slightly used) car than to keep an old one running, but it takes a long time.
Buying a new car, of course, is just throwing money away.
Despite the effort of the ideologues of the 60s, the IQ of the typical American factory workers is below the IQ of Japanese assembly workers. These ideologues would rather ruin the economy than prove themselves wrong. This is what we are observing currently.
The Russians paid themselves to expose their own attack on America?
Sounds like something a treason-cuck would cling to instead of accepting reality.
My last three care were Toyotas. The first I traded in with 250K miles - it still ran fine. The other two I still have, one with 100K and the other with 8K. I've taken the factory tour and there were a lot of US employees working seemingly happily there. I would be happy to buy a Ford or GM if they were as reliable as the Toyotas are.
Hillary's campaign manager fell for an obvious, Apple-themed phishing email and gave up his iCloud credentials which were then leveraged to get more shit.
Over 2 years later, that's all we have any actual evidence of.
https://lmgtfy.com/
They lost sales because they cost too much.
They can aggressively price their cars, offer incentives and it will sell.
Those cars sold more in the previous years because they got the dealerships to sell more with financial incentives.
Go out buying a car and the prices of cars are all over the place. There are leases being offered that are hundreds of dollars different between the same class of cars. Even the same car can be leased for $300 one year and it's $550 the next year.
I've noticed that east and west coast don't have many American cars. When I was in California, the most prevalent American car was Tesla. Since I don't live there I don't what's going on there.
The reason the US car makers favor trucks is that the japanese trucks have a 25% tarrif since 1973. It's much more profitable for US automakers so they emphasize this category over the thin margins on sedans. Additionally one has to consider the labor and material costs. For some cost structures it's much better to sell one high ticket item over two smaller ticket items, favoring the production of trucks over cars.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Are you sure? The "tailpipes," are vibrators now.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
in with the new.
America is stuck in the present and too goddam greedy to be farsighted (just look up Gary Larson).
The old Capitalism was, "If you don't have to change, then fon't spend the money."
Long-term planners see around corners and are flexible and welcome the capital advantage of change.
The American automobile manufacturing plants are going the way of textiles, shoes, toys, etc.
Every goddam time David Muir presents the "Made in America," snippet, the fucking stuff is mom & pop and useless as tits on a boar hog.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
"The Saturn Corporation, also known as Saturn LLC, was an American automobile manufacturer, a registered trademark established on January 7, 1985. .... was GM's attempt to compete with Japanese automakers.
Following the withdrawal of a bid by Penske Automotive to acquire Saturn in September 2009, General Motors discontinued the Saturn brand and ended its outstanding franchises on October 31, 2010.[3][4]
All new production was halted on October 7, 2009
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_Corporation
It was the 4th car I'd owned, first one bought new. Biggest pile of shit I've ever driven. Remember, this was the days of "Quality is Job 1". Within a year I'd replaced every light bulb in the car. At 2 years I went out to go somewhere, dead battery. No warning, just dead one day. Fortunately it was a stick so I could push start it (by myself, yay me!) to get a new battery. The fucking seat broke. This was when I was still a skinny ass, maybe 170 lbs fully dressed with full pockets. Took it to the dealer (it was still under warranty), basically got told lose weight. The cruise control, well, the nut holding the cruise control on the steering column loosened up during normal driving and went from the 11 oclock position to the 6 oclock position. Every time I drove it. Even after using Loc-tite. The floorpan rusted through within 5 years, and I live in San Diego (that is, no salt and not much rain).
The final insult? Had issues with sending payments so for the last year or so I'd been driving to a Ford place in Mission Valley to pay my monthly payment. Made my final payment. Driving back to work I ran over something and flattened a front tire. I realize this wasn't Ford's fault, but it perfectly summed up my previous 4 years of owning the car.
When did I sell it? After about 6 years and 70,000 miles a belt started to squeak. Took it to a mechanic, the crankshaft pulley was wobbling. This meant either a complete engine rebuild RSN, or stranded somewhere RSN. I sold the car and bought an import.
Oh, that broken seat? Was a recall, about the time I sold the PoS.
I'm on my third car since then, bought new. I haven't looked at a domestic car in 30 years, they've all been imports (1 BMW, 2 Infinities).
Once you get a bad broad reputation, it's hard to kick. Your newer stuff has to be better than the competition to correct the reputation. "Equal" is not strong enough. That's just human psychology in action.
It's like somebody with a notorious reputation for lying. To clean their reputation, they'd have to lie less than average for a good while to get back in good graces. Lying the same amount would supply enough lies to reinforce their existing reputation.
You hear that Microsoft, Oracle, Comcast, and IBM?
Table-ized A.I.
Interesting what a low crime rate and a high graduation rate caused by a strong nuclear family can do for a nation.
If Camry outsold the Equinox (290,000) by 100,000, then 390,000 Camrys were sold, more than the CR-V (378,000), ranked #6. But Camry is not one of the top six listed. If the basic facts are wrong, why should I believe the conclusions in this article?
... from now we will be reading an article saying that "The supremacy of *Korean* cars has been 40 years in the making", and in 30 to 40 years from now, we will be reading an article titled "The supremacy of Chinese cars has been 40 years in the making"
that is the cycle of such things. Happened with cars, consumer electronics, tvs and monitors, computer components, appliances, the works.
I was born in late 1972, and I do remember a lot of things...
Remember the the 70's when japan was the place were cheapo-low-quality plastic toys and shoody appliances were made? everyone wanted a Zenith or GE, or RCA TV. No stinking toshibas, or Hitachis! And cars, everyone wanted a chevy or a ford (or a european). Japanese cars were a synonym of cheapo-low quality.
Remember the 80s when having a "Samtron" monitor in your computer was a sign of low quality? Rember in the 80's, when no one in their right mind would buy a Hyundai car? Nope, everyone wanted a toyota then, and a trinitron TV, or a NEC monitor. Samsung and Lucky Goldstar TVs were for loosers!
Remember the '90s and early 00's, when no one in their right mind would buy a Chery or a Geely car? Or a Haier TV or appliance? What now, GE appliances is a wholy owned subsidiary of Haier, which is the bigest Appliance manufacturer worldwide, while Geely owns both volvo and Lotus, and chery is assembling jaguars and land rovers for the chinese market.
So, countries upend other countries. do not dismiss them on the base of "percieived" quality (it will improve) or "perceived lack of innovation" (for they will innovate). Just take solace in that, just like in Japan, the chinese juggernaut will stop, and be upended by someone else...
*** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
Counter anecdote: In college, my friend had a Chrysler Lazer which was the uptrim sibling of the Dodge Daytona. Biggest piece of shit ever. Something was always breaking or else the engine was burning up.
I enjoyed poking fun at it until I wrecked my car and my pop got me another used car as a "surprise". Boy my heart sank when I saw it was the same piece of shit Chrysler model my friend had. So many things broke on that thing: steering wheel almost came off in my lap, brake cable snapped at an intersection so I had to stop by driving it into a ditch, gear shift kept popping out so I drove the last 100 miles until home forcefully holding the lever in place and destroyed the transmission, in my first job post-college, I saw flames coming out from under the hood as I drove into the parking building so I coasted it into a spot, opened the hood, and beat the flames out with my coat. Then I walked to my office. I left the car there sitting there and so wanted to just abandon the fucking thing, but they don't let you do that, so I donated it to the high school auto shop. They had that thing running in days, and the kids working on it told me, "Cool car!" It was like passing a psychotic ex-girlfriend off onto someone else.
They wanted to get caught because it is the best way to improve their public image while damaging the public image of the US, I guess?
And they succeeded. But they had to work at it some because over the years they accidentally put out some perfectly fine cars.
I drove a Pontiac Grand Am (with the aluminum 4-cylinder, not the iron V6 boat anchor, up front) all over the country for more than a decade, my brother drives it still. And I bought it used. The Ford Fusion of recent years was my preferred flavor of rental car, vastly better than getting stuck with a Kia on trips. I always thought that it would be nicer if it stuck out a little less front and back and didn't force you to sit so low. Turns out there was a car exactly like that: the Mazda 6 that Ford stretched and otherwise over-complicated to make the Fusion. Guess what I drive now?
V70 owner here. 250.000 miles, and all I do is change the tires, the oil, windshield wipers... I am still on the original clutch, gearbox, radiator, diesel-injectors, exhaust. Nothing ever broke...
Poop for everyone! Llama love session at 5!
Our Honda Civic Hybrid was a dog. Lots of transmission trouble and other weird issues. I've owned Nissans and Toyotas and after 5 or 6 years they start falling apart and turn into beaters.
Our 2008 Mercury Mariner has been trouble free for over 10 years. Our 2013 Tesla Model S has also been pretty much trouble free.
In my experience, the supremacy of Japanese cars is a myth. They are not more reliable. Don't get me started on Jaguar and Volkswagon... If you wisely select the right models, American cars are better.
Greed is the root of all evil.
In the 90s, the USA, Europe, and Japan were the rich nations of the world. Europe has taxes, which add $4/gallon onto the price of gasoline. Japan has special regulations which push small cars. So, small cars sell well in those nations. Japan is home to Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Mazda, Nissan, Suzuki, and Daihatsu. Europe is home to VW, BMW, Renault, Fiat, and Peugeot. South Korea is home to Hyundai/KIA. That is over 10 companies. ALL of those companies make small cars. Some are good. Others are not. Ford and GM have decided to retreat to a couple of platforms for SUVs and trucks. It is worth noting that GM decided they could just import and rebrand foreign small cars for the USA. Recently, the Smart Fortwo, and Fiat 500 have failed to become popular in the USA.
In the USA, if you care about fuel economy, you buy a Prius, instead of a small car.
Isn't there a 25% tariff on the import of light trucks into the USA? So basically, the US manufacturers only exist because they are protected from competition.
Trying to keep Tesla (panel quality rivaling that of 90's era Kia according to Sandy Munro) from being associated as yet another American manufacturing disaster.
The odd Tesla queer like Type44Q attempts contrarian Honda bashing.
What of these well lubed Musk boypussies? ...
Rei
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drinkypoo
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apoc.famine
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c6gunner
SuperKendall
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aaarrrgggh
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haruchai
JoshuaZ
That tariff on light duty trucks is also the reason you can't find VW kombivans, but you can find regular VW busses everywhere. The tax on light duty trucks didn't apply to the vans, leading to VW exiting that entire market segment in the US. The rabbit/subaru justy(imp, whatever it was called) got around that by being unibody pickup trucks which somehow fell under car instead of light duty truck due to technicalities.
America has some of the lamest protectionist policies on the planet, despite claiming to be for a free market and capitalism, it never has been about either. Just ask the members of the Whiskey Rebellion.
There are a lot of people here talking about *American* cars. It's interesting, because absolutely none of those cars get sold here (in the UK), except for some Fords. And Hyundais and Toyotas are generally better than those anyway.
That summary reads like a case study straight out of Peter Senge's The Fifth Discipline... Detroit making all the wrong decisions for short term gain (and long term demise). Don't they read Senge in Detroit?
For that matter, the software industry with their Agile fad should also read it.
Anyway, my 19-year-old Toyota pickup truck with 230 000 miles on the clock still goes like a rocket (as far as diesels CAN go like rockets...). And despite all the scratches and dents (but without rust), not a week goes by without an offer to buy from some entrepreneur that wants some transport to start up/expand his building or transport or garden service business (I'm outside of the US though).
Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
Are there any AFRICAN car manufacturers? Or computer chip manufacturers? Or ANYTHING high tech?
How could that possibly be? It must be 'the legacy of slavery'...
It couldn't be anything to do with REALITY, like African IQ being an average of only 70...
Counter anecdote: In college, my friend had a Chrysler Lazer which was the uptrim sibling of the Dodge Daytona. Biggest piece of shit ever. Something was always breaking or else the engine was burning up.
I enjoyed poking fun at it until I wrecked my car and my pop got me another used car as a "surprise". Boy my heart sank when I saw it was the same piece of shit Chrysler model my friend had. So many things broke on that thing: steering wheel almost came off in my lap, brake cable snapped at an intersection so I had to stop by driving it into a ditch, gear shift kept popping out so I drove the last 100 miles until home forcefully holding the lever in place and destroyed the transmission, in my first job post-college, I saw flames coming out from under the hood as I drove into the parking building so I coasted it into a spot, opened the hood, and beat the flames out with my coat. Then I walked to my office. I left the car there sitting there and so wanted to just abandon the fucking thing, but they don't let you do that, so I donated it to the high school auto shop. They had that thing running in days, and the kids working on it told me, "Cool car!" It was like passing a psychotic ex-girlfriend off onto someone else.
Guess how we know that you're lying?
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
I have 250k miles on my 1986 Ford escort L. Have you actually ridden in a Honda civic? It's like a tinfoil box. Loud, vibrations, thin. Good motors but the car itself? Garbage. Love my Honda motorcycles though.
Why go all the way to Alabama to buy an American made car?
My Honda Civic and my wife's Honda Civic were both made in South Carolina, and the dealer was nice enough to ship them to New Jersey for us. That was nearly 600K miles ago between them
Strangely enough, Subaru was even nice enough to deliver her Subaru Forrester to New Jersey, all they way from where it was manufactured in Indiana. I almost shit my pants when Subaru repeated this amazing feat when I bought my Outback.
The only American car I ever owned (my first car) was a Plymouth Arrow bought used. I actually loved that car. But really, who doesn't love their first? Oh yeah, and a Ford EXP - also used. That turned out to be an oil-burning piece of shit. Volkswagen Fox - used. My first new car was Toyota Tercel. Not sure where it was made at the time, though.
and shit products is what you make in America, because you think there's more money in that, then customers will eventually turn to quality products, and the Japanese were always meticulous about quality.
No surprise really.
I had a 2014 Nissan Rogue. It's actually a rather nicely designed vehicle with a good layout, nice controls, and a lot of functionality. It is also one of the few mid-sized vehicles with a 3rd row seat. This is essentially, a modern station wagon with AWD.
However, I encountered two issues with my Nissan Rogue AWD.
ISSUE 1) Fuel Economy - It never came close to the estimated EPA mileage - not even in the ballpark. In fact if you review
RATED: 25 City, 31 Highway, 27 Combined.
Over the life of the vehicle I averaged 23.5 MPG. Now I drove nearly a 100 miles a day, mostly highway. And if you look at FuelEconomy.gov, you'll see my mileage was the norm.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/fe...
Frankly, I believe that Nissan used a computer algorithm to put the vehicle in a more efficient low-power fuel economy mode for testing. I believe you only enter this mode if you are driving like 50 MPH. It is one thing, to expect EPA estimates to be off. But usually, when you buy a vehicle, you at least expect your HWY mileage to be better than the CTY rating. And considering my prior vehicle was a Nissan Versa, rated at 30CTY, 37HWY, 33C, in which on the same commute I averaged around 36.5MPG. So yes, I felt very deceived.
ISSUE 2) 36K/3YR warranty - so I added the extended warranty at purchase as well. I had an intermittent issue with the AC they told me to bring it in when it was occurring. However, when it finally did and completely failed. The vehicle was at 37,000 miles and 13 months of age. Took them a week to diagnose and fix the problem. Which they claimed was the blower motor fuse, and that the blower motor was fine. Nissan refused to cover it under warranty. A 13 month old vehicle that had the problems in it's first year. Fuses are considered replaceables, so the extended warranty didn't cover it. $700+ to fix a brand new car. I fought with Nissan national, and they finally covered half the cost. Within 6 months, the problem was back. Nissan wanted more money to diagnose.
Driving a 100 miles a day in summer heat sweating while going thru a nasty divorce and battling depression is NO FUN. There were days I damn near wanted to drive the thing off the road, or into a showroom. Finally, I gave up, why fight to struggle and pay for a vehicle that wasn't working. It needed a set of four new tires - runflats so about double the price. And I gave up and let the bank take it.
Thanks Nissan...
Love the car, but the fact Nissan wouldn't stand behind their product when it was only a year old. NOT COOL!!!!
(And without a doubt they are cheating on the EPA mileage and need to be penalized on it like Kia was.)
Threw a rod clear THROUGH THE BLOCK in my '01 Civic @ highway speed with zero warning. THROUGH the block. Superior to what??
Great fucking steel nips! /s
Japan got it's foot in the door when Detroit was caught flat footed by the 1970's oil crisis. Sooner or later history will repeat and oil prices will rise. No doubt the tax payers will be expected to bail them out.
Not to mention, the Trump administration's relaxed mileage standards will exacerbate the problem.
Uh, not all these things happened on the same day.
Engage brain, dear reader.
A divided, distracted enemy is weaker, so yeah, this is exactly what they, and other unfriendly nation states are doing.
It's also easier to believe a Russian troll is a concerned US citizen when they point fingers back at Russia, so the ROI is worth it for them.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
Uh, not all these things happened on the same day.
Engage brain, dear reader.
You should do the same. Brakes don't work with cables, and transmissions don't get more damaged than they already are by holding it in when it pops out.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
The tests are pretty much run at 50mph on a flat surface, no AC, no heat and no wind :P Nowhere near close to real-world usage.
I don't own a car, I live in a dense city so owning a car is an expense I can do without because of public transport. I do however rent and have a car share membership for the times I do need a car and I've been doing this for a while so I have a good amount of experience with alot of different cars. American made cars are comparatively terrible. I always try to get a Korean or Japanese cars because they're better drives and as well built better. The American cars I've driven always have some problem with their electronics. Simply pairing my phone to them is a problem, never works well so I have to use the radio. In the Hyundais, Toyotas and Hondas they work flawlessly. My friend worked for Enterprise and I asked him why they had so many Hyundais for rent all the time and he said they found that Hyundais lasted longer and broke down far less than American cars so while they do have some American brands on the lot, they have significantly more Hyundais because they were more reliable
Trying to keep Tesla (panel quality rivaling that of 90's era Kia according to Sandy Munro) from being associated as yet another American manufacturing disaster.
Panel fit and finish are important, because they're the first thing people notice. But they're actually one of the least important things about the vehicle when it comes to function and safety. What's important in the unibody is how many of the welds and other fastenings are successful, and whether the corrosion protection functions. Everything else is gravy. Back in the 80s Hondas used to have premature paint failure, but it wasn't catastrophic failure — they didn't rust away. Today, almost nobody remembers Honda's crappy paint.
What of these well lubed Musk boypussies?
Rei
WindBourne
K. S. Kyosuke
drinkypoo
Woo, I'm boypussy #4! Yeah baby! If I get to #1, will Elon mail me a Tesla? Any model will do, they're all better than anything I've ever owned or driven. Best not to be an original roadster, though, because I'm fat and tall.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You should do the same. Brakes don't work with cables,
What? Yes they do. They're called parking brakes.
and transmissions don't get more damaged than they already are by holding it in when it pops out.
They said the shift lever popped out, and they held it in. That had nothing to do with the brakes.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You should do the same. Brakes don't work with cables,
What? Yes they do. They're called parking brakes.
You should read more carefully - loss of parking brakes don't result in "driving into a ditch to stop the car". That's how we know he is lying.
and transmissions don't get more damaged than they already are by holding it in when it pops out.
They said the shift lever popped out, and they held it in. That had nothing to do with the brakes.
You really should read more carefully - poster claims that the transmission was destroyed when they held in the lever after it popped out. Neither he nor I claimed that had anything to do with the brakes. I only claimed that poster is lying because he thinks that holding the stick in a gear when it pops out destroys the transmission.
It's obviously clear that he's lying about these things: a brake cable snapping doesn't mean you have to stop by driving in a ditch and holding a gear in place doesn't destroy the transmission.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
I only claimed that poster is lying because he thinks that holding the stick in a gear when it pops out destroys the transmission.
Eh, if you damaged the shift mechanism badly enough it could require a transmission out to repair, which is functionally the same as destroying the transmission for the average owner.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I only claimed that poster is lying because he thinks that holding the stick in a gear when it pops out destroys the transmission.
Eh, if you damaged the shift mechanism badly enough it could require a transmission out to repair, which is functionally the same as destroying the transmission for the average owner.
Maybe, possibly ... but taken in context with his other blatant lie about driving into a ditch to stop the car after a cable broke, I doubt it.
That's the thing about including one lie in with a whole bunch of other statements - you lose your credibility.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
Bein a slave ain't so bad. Massa gives us dat good steak and dem pig tenderloins. No chitlins and pig knuckles for us, no siree. Massa good ta us. Y'all needs ta be thankful for whatcha have.
Ummm hmm hmm hmmmmmmmm, oh lawdy!
I am glad you are trying to educate this gooseshit-for-brains character on automotive matters, drinkypoo. I don't know what his fucking problem is, but you have corrected him on everything.
Maybe he can't believe that someone made a car as crappy as that? I probably would have too until I got that car, may it rust in piece. I left out some other minor body related problems like exterior pieces simply falling off and other hilarity because the post was already long. Junkyards and epoxy for the win!
I used to be a total Nissan fanboy. But then the alliance with Renault happened and I knew they would go straight down the tubes. I had a 1989 240SX which is probably the best car I ever owned or will own. It got amazing mileage (~30 mpg @ 65mph) and it was trivial to work on. But those days are long, long gone.
In spite of mileage cheating, Korean is probably the kind of car to have today. They are still trying to fight the image that they are not as good as the Japanese, so they're still trying
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Turns out there was a car exactly like that: the Mazda 6 that Ford stretched and otherwise over-complicated to make the Fusion. Guess what I drive now?
Yes, this is something that Ford has long done that I have never understood. Take Mazda, make it uglier, sell it. What? The worst example was the Ford Probe. Not only was it spectacularly ugly, but it was spectacularly uglier than the MX-6.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The funny thing is, goose, you are still dead wrong.
Apparently you can't imagine how the scenario could have happened, so I have to spell it out for you in excrutiating detail:
1/ Approaching an intersection at slow speed (4 way stop)
2/ Press brake pedal, main brakes fail, pedal goes all the way to the floor (brake cylinder failure, I found out later)
3/ Use emergency brake. Brake cable snaps.
4/ Drive car into ditch on side of road to avoid entering the intersection itself, i.e. avoid going past stop sign.
You will probably retort that I didn't put all this info in my original post. As I said in a previous post, it was already a long one. I didn't anticipate I'd get some reader with a grudge against the Internet-at-Large looking to pick a post apart that was meant to entertain.
Merry Christmas everyone.
I simply hate SUV and trucks. Also sedans.
My beach is the 5-door Hatch Premium cars, such as Golf, Opel Astra 2019 and so on. Smaller and with more than reasonable trunks, usually good engine performance and high HPs, they're better for moving around the city.
Can't understand this stupid trend towards bulky SUVs, bigger is not better.