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Your Apple Products Are Getting More Expensive. Here's How They Get Away With It. (washingtonpost.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: Apple has never made cheap stuff. But this fall many of its prices increased 20 percent or more. The MacBook Air went from $1,000 to $1,200. A Mac Mini leaped from $500 to $800. It felt as though the value proposition that has made Apple products no-brainers might unravel. For some perspective, we charted out the past few years of prices on a few iconic Apple products. Then we compared them with other brands and some proprietary data about Americans' phone purchase habits from mobile analytics firm BayStreet Research.
What we learned: Being loyal to Apple is getting expensive. Many Apple product prices are rising faster than inflation -- faster, even, than the price of prescription drugs or going to college. Yet when Apple offers cheaper options for its most important product, the iPhone, Americans tend to take the more expensive choice. So while Apple isn't charging all customers more, it's definitely extracting more money from frequent upgraders.
[...] Apple says prices go up because it introduces new technologies such as Face ID and invests in making products that last a long time. Yet it has clearly been feeling price discomfort from some quarters. This week, amid reports of lagging sales that took its stock far out of the trillion-dollar club, it dedicated its home page to a used-car sales technique that's uncharacteristic for an aspirational luxury brand. It offered a "limited-time" deal to trade in an old iPhone and get a new iPhone XR for $450, a $300 discount.
What we learned: Being loyal to Apple is getting expensive. Many Apple product prices are rising faster than inflation -- faster, even, than the price of prescription drugs or going to college. Yet when Apple offers cheaper options for its most important product, the iPhone, Americans tend to take the more expensive choice. So while Apple isn't charging all customers more, it's definitely extracting more money from frequent upgraders.
[...] Apple says prices go up because it introduces new technologies such as Face ID and invests in making products that last a long time. Yet it has clearly been feeling price discomfort from some quarters. This week, amid reports of lagging sales that took its stock far out of the trillion-dollar club, it dedicated its home page to a used-car sales technique that's uncharacteristic for an aspirational luxury brand. It offered a "limited-time" deal to trade in an old iPhone and get a new iPhone XR for $450, a $300 discount.
Apple users want new well branded, logo showing bling the same way zombies want brains.
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As long as people are willing to put up with it, you think they are going to LOWER the prices out of the goodness of their heart? Not that the prices were low when Jobs was alive, but, now that he is gone, the puppet Cook, just does what the stock holders tell him to do.
I never thought anyone would buy a $1000 phone that was built for $140. That is probably why I am not in sales.
Apple can sell these for more money because everything else is treated like a knockoff. They are the dominant player, everyone knows that, and no one checks specs since they are all close enough to each other that it doesn't matter.
I know we can expect a raft of posts to follow that explain the important technical and religious differences, but the vast, vast majority of the people buying these just don't care about that stuff, they want to have what is socially considered the best.
With falling market share, and flat unit sales, the only way to increase revenue and keep that stock price climbing is by charging more per unit. So - they do. And they do their best to market that increased price as best they can, to drive the dwindling consumer demand to pay that higher price.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
I've been an Apple fan for years because the hardware *just works*. But back then I could at least upgrade the harddrives, add a gpu, ram etc. My last Mac was a Mini from 2012 with an i7 cpu (faster than the mini which came out in 2014 and fast enough that upgrading to the new mini is akin to throwing out money).
But over the last few years Apple has become increasing hostile to users. Gluing the batteries into the laptop case, soldered memory, middle of the road gpus etc. And now I'm seeing Apple charge $600 for a 1TB ssd upgrade for the new mini when that same drive is $150 on Amazon. GPU's now come in their own $600 case outside of the damn hardware — and now this T2 chip from hell which prevents user or third-party upgrades/fixes?! What. The. Hell. Apple. I suspect this will get much worse as Apple uses the fear of encryption + hackers to lock down their hardware even further under the pretence they are making you safer.
That said, I've been honing up on Linux the last few months and will build a rig in the new year and fully switch to Linux. It's the first time I'll use Linux as a *desktop* OS as opposed to a cloud service. Linux has come so far in recent years that in my testing I haven't found anything lacking (hell, Steam runs fine on it!).
I don't want to crap on Apple for invoking their right to be a capitalist company, I'm sure the shareholders are happy. But I'm done handing my money over to a trillion dollar company (I'll give it to Amazon instead — irony is not lost on me here...).
Meh.
Apple understands that the purchase price of a device is in fact pretty much the least important things about it.
Considering the time I spend with my devices, and considering my personal value of my time, I'd rather get the one I want that works the way I want, then have the frustration of one that is cheap but not really what I wanted.
There are people for whom the purchase price is a key consideration. You know what? These people don't buy Apple stuff.
Apple isn't "getting away" with anything.
If people thought the phones were too expensive, THEY WOULDN'T BUY THEM.
How much it costs Apple to make the phones is completely irrelevant - something is worth what others are willing to pay for it.
What they’re talking about is 100% true. I have tons of Apple devices. Multiple Mac Minis, iPads, iPhones, etc. And I found that the plastic parts of my MacBook Pro (2011) are failing and the hinge for the laptop lid will soon fail entirely. So I started shopping for a replacement. What I found is that the MacBook Air is insanely expensive for the performance you get. And if I buy a MacBook Pro? Also insanely expensive. They solder in all the RAM and NVMe drives. The real kicker for me? Paying $500 for an NVMe SATA drive that I cannot upgrade when I can buy a 1TB NVMe PCIe drive that has WAY better throughput when dealing with smaller files. In fact, the throughput difference is so huge that switching from SATA to PCIe drops a compile time on one of my projects by 70%, So what did I end up doing? I ordered a Lenovo laptop that supports NVMe PCIe, has removeable RAM, AND weighs half a pound less than the MacBook Pro. Oh did I mention that it also has a better processor and almost the exact same battery life? And I am paying $1000 less out the door, including buying my own NVMe PCIe drive to upgrade it with. I will never buy another Apple computer again. The only reason I own an iPhone is due to Apple making its money off of hardware sales and Google making its money off of spying.
Probably due to Apple's insistence upon a steeply-increasing price for its products because of the development costs of features that Apple tells its customer they want, as opposed to features that Apple's customers tell Apple they need.
Apple makes good but not great products. They sell based on their reputation which they haven't deserved in years.
Corporatism != Free Market
I was a happy Android user for 7+ years. But to reliably get OS updates and upgrades, and not have to put up with a botched Android UI and bloatware, that meant buying a Nexus phone and tablet. Which I did, every 2 years or so.
But then Google decided to give up on Android tablets entirely, and give up on mid-price phones. They jacked up their prices, and a Pixel 3 now starts at $799. Well, guess what, that's the same price as an iPhone XR. And Google's last Android tablet offering before they gave up was actually more expensive than an iPad. So I switched.
With computers, nobody else is even offering a good Unix-based computer. Linux isn't competitive -- I use it for work, but sound and video are still a dumpster fire and don't count on hibernation working as well as a Mac either. If I didn't need to edit 4K video and work on music, I'd probably buy a ChromeBook, and sales of ChromeBooks seem to suggest that indeed there's an underserved market there.
Basically, nobody is putting in the time and money to clean up Linux (or BSD) and offer systems where sound and video editing, hibernation, and all the other basic functionality of a Mac is right there and just works. If you want that, you either have to put up with Windows and its myriad deficiencies, or you have to buy a Mac.
I'm a little surprised that nobody's deliberately setting out to build laptops that have exactly the same hardware as a Mac and are perfectly suited to hackintosh use. Give me a laptop with a proper keyboard and hardware that all worked properly with macOS and I'd be very tempted.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Ever since the Apple 2 line was discontinued, I lost faith in Apple. However, a neighbor recently asked to take her iMac to the Apple Store 25 miles away. Fifty employees and hundreds of customers waiting to get their crappy Apple products fixed. And as many of you know, Apple reduced their estimated life of product from 3 years to 2 years just so people would have buy more. It's not sad. It's disgusting.
"It felt as though the value proposition that has made Apple products no-brainers might unravel."
In what universe of delusion has Apple ever been a value proposition???????
I've been pondering a new hardware update cycle in the last 2-3 years. Waiting for the cheap viable Apple option to come around. Didn't happen with Apple lately. I'm in the process of moving away from Apple hardware and basically finished with that. I'm typing this on a refurbushed ThinkPad X220 in which I just upgraded the SDD to 1TB yesterday (runs Manjaro i3 Linux) and got meself a Chromebook a few months back to try out the cheap ARM-based secure "Lord-Google-watches-over-me" option. Not sure if that test will come out positive, still carefully evaluating. The suddenly increasing (!) price in Chromebooks lately isn't helping though IMHO.
Long story short: The articles assessment is spot on. Apple is an all-out fashion brand for people who care for a high minimum of quality but not about objective price-performance. That has Apple earning obscene amounts of money. Good for them. I'm out however. I've been eyeing the new iPad Pro - a truely amazing device - but it's just too damn expensive and too much Apple-service lock-in with iOS.
Only at work am I still using a neat retina 27" iMac with a bunch of FOSS software (homebrew, iTerm, Gimp, Inkscape, etc.) added. Nice. But if a work HW upgrade is due, my next one will inlcude a fanless custom Linux box and a extra-wide 4k display and some luxury KB & Mouse. And still be cheaper than the sub-par Apple option.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
you're just holding them wrong.
That, and reality distortion fields don't grow on trees.
Apple says prices go up because it introduces new technologies such as Face ID
And Face ID wouldn't be necessary if they hadn't removed the fingerprint reader, so in other words they're imposing the cost of solving problems to its customers that Apple itself caused.
Apple products have never been about low prices. They charge premium prices for what they believe is a premium product. Their customers seem to agree. A lot of people put a premium on ease of use and visual esthetics. And they are willing to pay more for that.
I equate it to German cars. Some people believe it is worth it to spend more for a BMW or Merc because they believe it handles better and has superior engineering. Other people see those cars and just think money pit. There is no right answer. If you feel it's worth the extra money then go for it.
Where some people get in trouble is when they buy the expensive iPhone but can't really afford it. If they are honest with themselves they will realize that their budget doesn't allow for a $1000 phone. But the iPhone, like the German car, is an asperational product. It conveys status and success, at least in some eyes. So Apple lures them in by allowing them to spread the payments over 2 years. Then it doesn't seem like that much money. Just like the 3-4 year car lease.
My wife has an iPhone and she loves it. I'm an Android guy. We manage to coexist. I can see the appeal of the iPhone but I prefer the control that Android give me. To each their own.
Apple is going in the wrong direction. They should be reducing the price and pushing market share, while pivoting the company towards offering more services. This is where the future is. Google has been steadily working towards this, and even Microsoft has gotten the message. In another 5-10 years phones will be dirt cheap (maybe even free) and the funding model will be through the services you use on it (though you might be paying though ad services, or indirectly e.g. uber). This is just pretty obvious.
I think they are really going to stuff themselves with this current strategy. By the time they realise they have a problem, their market will be too small and exclusive, and those users will quickly disappear as the centre of mass in the industry shifts away.
The company appears to be stuck with the last set of 'commandments' brought down from the mountain by Jobs. Only he could change those commandments (which he did regularly) so they are now stuck on autopilot.
With the new apple keyboards, they are failing all the time. It really loses its value proposition when you might be without it for days while they replace half of the case.
Wages went up 3% last year. Does that even beat inflation?
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
EVERYTHING is getting more expensive ... except labor... wages haven't moved in 30 years.
Wages have moved significantly in the last 30 years. Just not for the working or middle class. The upper middle class which makes up most of Apple's customers has been growing rapidly for the last few decades.
Total compensation for the middle class has been rising as well, but almost entirely in the form of health care benefits. For instance the employer portion of health care coverage has increased 10% from 2015-2018. That is a compensation increase for those workers, they just don't see it in their salary figures. If health care plans were not tied to employers then it would be more obvious that pay has been increasing for most workers faster than inflation. Unfortunately so has health care costs.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
no one checks specs
Anyone intelligent does not check specs on mobile devices these days, because it's not raw hardware or software alone that matters - it is the combination of the two.
That is why iOS devices can get away with less RAM. Technically it's "lower spec" than some Android devices, but it ends up working better because iOS simply needs much less RAM to function well.
Same for battery, if you "check the specs" on an android device you might find a bigger battery where the entire phone has much worse real-life battery life than a similar iOS device.
Even highly technical people like myself stopped "checking the spec" some time ago for this very reason - my remain cognizant of what the specs are, but keep them in perspective within the entire function of the device.
"Checking specs" makes more sense with desktop and laptop hardware because there all of the OS choices have been heavily optimized over a long time (though even then the administration overhead matters a lot to me which is why I still will not run Windows).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Summary not just written and powered by smarmy Hatorade, its a honey pot for the same. You know Zombie Steve isn't holding a gun to your heads, right? You are perfectly free to buy an Android phone - even if it comes with a notch and costs just as much as an iPhone XR.
We are a capitalist society, they are not "getting away" with anything.
They can charge what they want, and if people continue to buy then they are not charging too much.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
I donâ(TM)t know what Obama promised and did in general, but he did protect the country from total collapse following GW Bush. This current guy, is doing more to destroy the country than any other US president. The MAGA agenda is actually MAFI (Make America F@king Irrelavent) in disguise.
You do know that Foxconn makes devices for almost every manufacturer right? That means your ire covers Dell, Lenovo, HP, LG, etc.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Their designs are decent, but I've never seen them as a value proposition.
The central premise of this article is wrong. The high price of the latest product releases has impacted sales, causing a significant drop in stock price. The new features are reviewing well, but the perception of Apple users is that an innovation like face unlock will become standard at lower prices in the future, so why jump in at this early-adopter price point?
because it's got a ton of extra features that only work when you're texting somebody on an iPhone. It's a defacto social network. Take iMessage away and she'd buy a Samsung.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
What many people miss are Apple's intangible costs like their commitment to renewable energy, sustainable materials and recycling and insistence on fair working conditions (however successful that may be). these things will drive up the costs of Apple's products but you can't find them on bill of materials for their phones and products.
If you want the highest performance, most eco-friendly tech product, then Apple is the best manufacturer.
You can't put a price on the ability to feel superior to those who use lesser brands, and the self-satisfaction of showing what a unique individual you are by displaying the same logo as everyone else in your local coffee shop.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Even if that was accurate, why would anyone pay $1000+ for a $390 phone?
Because no-one is making a phone for $390 and selling it at $390.
Also because if I wanted to build an equivalent phone myself it would probably cost around $10 million+, and work like crap (see: so many lower tier Android handset makers).
Idiotic
Only if you hate nice things, and are super-bad at math to figure out your average cost per day...
The iPhone X last year is by far my favorite phone I have ever owned. Over many years some upgrades were just kind of slight advances, but all of the things in the iPhone X made it feel like a real step forward again. I like it so much will probably not even upgrade next year either, making for a good three year run on a phone. At that point the difference between a $1k phone and a $390 phone is nothing, with better economics of enjoyment than just about anything on this planet.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I use both on a regular basis, and Face ID is vastly more reliable than the fingerprint reader.
Dry skin from ambient weather? Sorry, your fingerprint isn't recognized. Damp skin from washing your hands? Sorry, your fingerprint isn't recognized. Got out of the pool less than an hour ago? Sorry, your fingerprint isn't recognized.
I thought Face ID was stupid until I used it.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Apple even tells you now how many hours your phone was fondled. Something that intimate in your life is consuming valuable life cycles. The purchase price isn't really the expensive part.
Additionally, people are not upgrading things as fast probably for the same reason these things are getting more expensive. At first all the breaktrhough changes were cheap to do. Many times they even made the phone cheaper. E.g. a more efficient radio or screen means smaller battery. When scale let you start winding your own batteries in custom shapes it also reduced the cost. Incorporating other profit centers like app stores made the phone cost less.
Now that the low hanging fruit is devoured the new advances perhaps are more costly to achieve. But as the quality goes up and the incremental size of the changes go down people get more milage out of their phones. So the replacement period stretches out.
Detroit found the same thing out when they started making quality cars in the 80s. the cars lasted longer.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
mac pro 2020 (late 2019) needs to be $2999 max starting price.
No need for 1TB or more base pci-e storage (start at 256-512) at apples price 1TB or more is insane to start with.
No need for an high end / upper mid range card video card as starting point and (no duel video cards as base)
At least 32GB ram (fill all channels) (and have slots)
Start with an lower cpu then the imac pro.
You can look at history and see the REAL truth: Adjusting for inflation, Macs are now LESS EXPENSIVE than at any time in their 30 year history.
Get the FACTS:
https://appleinsider.com/artic...
Is it physically painful to be so retarded? I sure hope so.
With you there. I'm not fanboy but I've enjoyed their hardware for years, and I have a lot of it too. Yet I feel like they're going out of their way to deliberately sabotage the "low end" (well, their version of it). Started seeing it first in the iPhones, with the lower models getting horrible base storage options for one, and reserving arbitrary features for the "flagship" phones. Now their other hardware lines too.
I really, really wanted the Air. Or rather, I wanted what the rumors suspected of it. A lower-power machine with the features I personally needed. The machine that came out though feels.. purposely hobbled. Most especially the two USB-C ports, on only one side of the machine, and nothing else. Power, external video, everything goes through those two ports. God forbid I'm right-handed and have a need for some kind of wired input device..
Other than Lenovo (also Dell XPS 13), consider the System76 Galago Pro (itself a re-branded Clevo machine). It's almost the same dimensions and weight as the new Air (about an inch bigger on one side, and like 150 grams heavier; so some difference but not much). In that almost-the-same form factor they managed to offer a significantly better CPU (with slightly better on-board graphics because of it, for what that's worth), a 13" 3K screen (which has higher DPI and more resolution than the Air's new Retina screen). They offer a USB-C port with Thunderbolt 3 on it, which is capable of power input/charging, external video output, and all the rest that the Air's two ports offer, so there's feature-parity there. However, in that same chassis they also offer USB3 Type-A ports (on both sides!), HDMI and mini-DisplayPort, a DC power input, an SD card slot the Air removed, and even a wired Ethernet port. Most of the other things like the webcam and such are parity with the Air, no better but no worse. The Galago admittedly does not offer fingerprint reading or Secure Enclave or such that the Air has, so there is that. The Galago does offer faster NVMe M.2 options for storage, up to 2TB. A Galago Pro configured with the same RAM and storage space (at the high-end NVMe option) still manages to be $300 less than the Air.
Oh, and it did all this in a machine that was released over a year before the Air (early-to-mid 2017), by the way.
Is it necessarily a better machine than the Air? That's a matter of opinion. The port options I sure as hell think so. It doesn't get nearly as good battery life as the Air though thanks to that much more powerful processor. However I also don't have to eat up one of only two precious USB-C ports to connect power to it, unlike the Air. The Galago also isn't unibody aluminum, which tends to make it less durable (though reports are it isn't fragile either). On the flip-side, the Galago can also be opened and serviced, and its RAM and storage are swappable by the user. Hell, the damn CPU isn't even soldered down.
Anyway, I'm quickly rambling off-topic here. Point is, I think stuff like the Galago shows Apple could've fucking done better, and easily so. They have the design prowess, I don't think there's much question of that. It just feels like they didn't give a shit about something "lower end" and less profit margin like the Air, so they pissed out a hobbled design, had the gall to up the price on it, and then called it a day. And I don't blindly throw money at that.
Summary not just written and powered by smarmy Hatorade, its a honey pot for the same. You know Zombie Steve isn't holding a gun to your heads, right? You are perfectly free to buy an Android phone - even if it comes with a notch and costs just as much as an iPhone XR.
Exactly!
Costs More...
Does Less...
It's that simple!
Citation.
It's that simple!
Apple products work for me, saving me time and frustration. They may not work for you. I am primarily interested in their benefits for me, and if I had to pay another 20% I would do it without much thought. YMMV.
I don't see the reason for all the bitterness that substitutes for real discourse around here. Sure it's funny at times but I really feel more often that I am wasting my time here with a quality of discussion that's on a downward spiral. And that's fucking sad because I've had some really interesting conversations here over the years.
And this is exactly the reason the price increased. Apple figures its customers are willing to pay more for cachet and wealth signaling. They're going to sell less of them because they've already largely saturated the market, so it's time to make Apple products even MORE exclusive.
So, what explains the sudden surge in CHROMEBOOK prices, eh???
Don't believe me? Believe THIS Slashdot poster, who said:
"I'm typing this on a refurbushed ThinkPad X220 in which I just upgraded the SDD to 1TB yesterday (runs Manjaro i3 Linux) and got meself a Chromebook a few months back to try out the cheap ARM-based secure "Lord-Google-watches-over-me" option. Not sure if that test will come out positive, still carefully evaluating. The suddenly increasing (!) price in Chromebooks lately isn't helping though IMHO."
https://apple.slashdot.org/com...
Certainly no "Brand Cachet" or "Wealth Signaling" with THOSE POS machines! So, perhaps it more like worries about Tariffs and general economic instability that is causing an ACROSS THE BOARD price increase in "tech" products (which are nearly universally Made in China)...
BTW, my newest piece of Apple Gear (other than the Apple TV I bought a couple of years ago) is a mid-2012 MacBook Pro. I also have an iPad 2. None of that stuff is particularly about "Cachet" or "Wealth Signaling".
I buy the stuff because it works, is quite reliable, and because the company respects and actually honors my Privacy.
And because I develop Windows software for a living, and am immersed in THAT "ecosystem" all day, every day at work; so I KNOW the difference!
So blow your effete crapola out your ass. But I see that that is actually unecessary; because that's OBVIOUSLY where it came from to begin with!
You know Zombie Steve isn't holding a gun to your heads, right? You are perfectly free to buy an Android phone - even if it comes with a notch and costs just as much as an iPhone XR.
Or even if it's perfectly usable, notch-less, has a headphone jack and removable battery, and costs $100 - $200.
99% of them don't even know what's inside a computer, nor how it works, and couldn't build one even if their lives depended on it.
As for the idiots who queue up outside Apple stores for hours (or even days) to buy the latest iPhone, words fail me.
Worked as an Embedded Dev. (both hw and sw) for over FOUR DECADES (and did as much Embedded Dev. on Macs as practical (which was admittedly not so easy back in the day). I Have built DOZENS of Windows computers. Write Windows Application sw for a living now. As such, I also help Admin several of our Windows Dev. Servers, stretching from Server 2003 to 2016.
I have several Engineering-type friends that use Macs, too.
So, next bullshit meme?
I was a happy Android user for 7+ years. But to reliably get OS updates and upgrades, and not have to put up with a botched Android UI and bloatware, that meant buying a Nexus phone and tablet. Which I did, every 2 years or so.
But then Google decided to give up on Android tablets entirely, and give up on mid-price phones. They jacked up their prices, and a Pixel 3 now starts at $799. Well, guess what, that's the same price as an iPhone XR. And Google's last Android tablet offering before they gave up was actually more expensive than an iPad. So I switched.
With computers, nobody else is even offering a good Unix-based computer. Linux isn't competitive -- I use it for work, but sound and video are still a dumpster fire and don't count on hibernation working as well as a Mac either. If I didn't need to edit 4K video and work on music, I'd probably buy a ChromeBook, and sales of ChromeBooks seem to suggest that indeed there's an underserved market there.
Basically, nobody is putting in the time and money to clean up Linux (or BSD) and offer systems where sound and video editing, hibernation, and all the other basic functionality of a Mac is right there and just works. If you want that, you either have to put up with Windows and its myriad deficiencies, or you have to buy a Mac.
I'm a little surprised that nobody's deliberately setting out to build laptops that have exactly the same hardware as a Mac and are perfectly suited to hackintosh use. Give me a laptop with a proper keyboard and hardware that all worked properly with macOS and I'd be very tempted.
And this is the bottom line.
it really took that long to figure that out? the prices you thought were worth it have never been from the very start, let alone all the other accessories you have to buy because of them creating their own standards. there's reasons why certain people, mainly practical people, will never buy an apple product and for those that see technology as something to help people accomplish things in life in a simpler way they have been detrimental to that end.
What standards has Apple created lately? The last one they created was Lightning, and that was because they just couldn't abide putting a piece of SHIT microUSB connector on their mobile devices, and the EU was giving them shit about the 30 pin Dock connector. But, they are now moving away from that, and going with the INDUSTRY-STANDARD USB-C connector.
But, other than Lightning, name ONE Proprietary Standard that Apple has CREATED in the past decade or so. I'll wait. Even Facetime was SUPPOSED to be Open; but then a Patent Troll (VirnexT) swooped-in a ruined THAT idea for EVERYBODY.
Our right to practice religion allows cults like Apple to legally operate.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
The article and just about everyone in the comments here seem to miss the economic point: pricing power. Apple is not the only one exercising its pricing power. When the new mini was introduced, I searched to find Windows machines with the same form factor and power, and the closest things to the mini, the Asus mini PCs, are about the same price. The same goes for Dell and HP laptops. The giants are exercising their pricing power. And, they need to do so in order to deliver higher profits with lower sales. As the article shows, people are waiting longer to upgrade their phones. The article is misleading in one regard. Apple's products tend to be cutting edge in their first generation. Comparing these prices to the prices of the average device achieves nothing. The more meaningful comparison is with devices in the same class. Clearly, prices for Samsung's and Google's flagship phones are keeping pace with Apple's because of, yes, pricing power. There isn't enough competition at the top.
"...who search the reason of things
Are those who bring the most sorrow on themselves." --Euripides, The Medea
It's because idiots keep paying for it en masse because they just have to have the latest igadget and believe lines like apple make long lasting products and makes new technology when they do neither.
Proof's in the pudding.
I've been buying (mostly used) Apple equipment for, well, as long as there has BEEN Apple equipment, and, other than a used eMac that seemed to suffer a Power Supply failure, I have sent every single one of my Apple computers (and my one upgraded iPhone) to my "Computer Museum" (spare bedroom) FULLY FUNCTIONAL. I could plug ANY of them in (back to my Apple 1!!!), and they would obediently boot right up and be ready for service, just like the day they were "decommissioned".
So, blow it out your ass; I've got over FORTY YEARS of Apple Hardware that handily BELIES your claims.
Oh, and as for your snarky "Gotta have the latest iGadget" remark, my NEWEST Apple gear is as follows:
1. A 4th Generation Apple TV that I bought to cut the cord about 2 years ago.
2. A mid-2012 MacBook Pro, which I bought new =in mid 2013, and which is my daily-driver at home.
3. An iPad 2 (which was a gift from my employer something like 5 years ago). I still use it every single day.
Obviously, NONE of that gear qualifies as "the latest iGadget". So again, quit with the false Apple Hater memes, willya?
1: They make a new version of a product.
2: They price that new product higher than the one from last year.
3: Enough people buy the new one at the higher price that they make a profit.
THEY GOT AWAY WITH IT!!!
0 1 - just my two bits
You only have to spend a little time perusing the web forums designed for Mac enthusiasts (macrumors, etc.) to see that plenty of "Mac faithful" users are getting irritated with the high prices and lack of really innovative changes coming from Apple in recent years.
Of course, the problem is -- choosing to use a computer, or entire "ecosystem" of devices that aren't part of the "Microsoft Windows world" meant a pretty big investment. You have all the software products you've grown familiar with and have data saved in their, sometimes proprietary, formats. You have the prospect of buying some of that over again if you switch back to another OS platform. You also have the headaches that come with trying to resell all of the Apple gear that you're getting rid of.
So it's not really so shocking that people already invested in Macs will grudgingly put up with things like $700 for a new Mac Mini that used to cost more like $400, or even the prospect of having to shell out over $3,000 for the high-end Macbook Pro 15" with the new Vega video chipset in it.
If your home is already automated with a bunch of control devices that use Apple HomeKit, and you use Apple Airplay to stream music to speakers around your place, and you have a lot of purchased movie or video content in iTunes that you watch directly off an AppleTV set top box? It's better to upgrade that one machine that needs it, even at these inflated prices, than to tear it all out and start over from ground zero!
Even in our workplace, almost all of the creative professionals and sales staff are using Mac laptops. We really disliked the value proposition of going with new Macbook Pro 13" laptops instead of the good old Macbook Airs that we'd issued as kind of a standard since back in 2011-2012. But what can you do? In the big picture, these folks work on client projects that are often $1 million each. If they feel like they do better work on a $2,700 Mac than on a $1500 Microsoft Surface Pro - you buy them the Mac. In some cases, one of these people can use their computer to do something in one DAY that more than justifies the entire cost of the machine.
I've been using Macs since 1999 or 2000 consistently, over here. And it's obvious to me that the company just isn't the same, post Steve Jobs. But then, Apple was his baby. He clearly felt it more important to him than even his own family. You can't just appoint somebody as the new CEO and expect they have the same passion for it. It'll be the same situation if Elon Musk dies and they pick some outside guy from another auto-maker to run Tesla.....
What Apple does have is a pretty nice foundation for its products, between using the iOS platform or the Mac OS X platform. It also has enough of a presence in the smartphone market that it will probably always own a significant chunk of it, barring some utter and complete screw-up. If they price things so high that sales decline more than the price increases net them, they'll make adjustments. But I think they're definitely trying to see how much margin they can add before that happens.
I simply think that Apple admirers deserve the price they pay for ridiculously expensive hardware that, for Apple, is costing less and less. People who buy Apple products are either stupid or looking for design and status.
It felt as though the value proposition that has made Apple products no-brainers might unravel
I can't tell, was this written tongue-in-cheek? When was the Apple choice a "no-brainer"?
While helping a friend buy a Kindle I noticed those prices went up 30% this fall too... in the US. I think there was something about a trade war with China?
I should have looked at the username before responding...you are an insufferable fool.
Good-bye
People keep buying them.
Demanding top tier prices for your goods works well for a while, but it doesn't last forever. Especially if you have a market full of cheaper competition.
The best example I can think of off the top of my head would be Silicon Graphics.
They used to be the top dog of the CGI hardware world.
Eventually, everyone dropped them like a bad habit due to the availability of much lower priced hardware.
Apple should probably enjoy the market while they can because it will eventually reach a point where their prices will actually start forcing folks to look at alternatives.
However, were I to try to run Lode Runner from a Mac Classic onto a modern Macbook Air, it wouldn't work.
You'd be incorrect as you can run that Lode Runner on a modern Macbook Air
...using the Mini vMac emulator. But as I understand the CopyRoms procedure, lawful use of Mini vMac requires buying two old Macintosh computers in addition to the MacBook Air: a Macintosh Plus to write the internal ROM to a file on an 800K floppy disk and another Mac with an Ethernet port and a floppy drive that can read 800K disks.
Another emulator that runs Mac software using a reimplemented ROM is Executor, but I don't know whether it builds or runs on recent macOS.
The only people who care that someone has an Apple product seems to be those who use Android.
And software developers that need to support end users who use macOS or iOS. Even if you can cross-compile using your GNU/Linux PC, it's a bit harder to cross-test. Even if you can afford to rent remote access to someone else's Mac or iPhone, remote access distorts the results of interactive responsiveness testing.
Congrats, that is just your style. The rest of the Apple cult is not like you, but willya try again next time?
Funny. It's JUST like the other Apple-owning people I know.
One just bought an iMac in 2017 to replace his 2009 iMac, which he uses for his Architectural Consulting business (he is 87 y/o BTW). His MacBook Pro is also from around 2011, IIRC. His wife just replaced her 2009 Mac mini with the new 2018 model. Their iPhones are a few generations old (can't remember how old), and his iPad is at least 3 years old.
Another just replaced her 2011 MacBook Pro with a 2017 version. I'm pretty sure she has an Android phone because she is on some sort of family plan with her husband. Husband is a Windows user.
Another friend has a frickin' Titanium POWERBOOK, and an iPhone 4 (may have upgraded that last year). His wife has a 2009 Mac mini (first Intel version).
In fact, I really have NEVER known one of these MYTHICAL "Gotta Have the New Shiny" Apple Users Slashtards keep yapping about. Wonder where they all are???
You are right. apple has never created anything. They just keep copying the innovators.
Haha. Nice try, COWARD.
We don't believe you, you are a lying faggot Apple shill. Post your real name and address or stfu. Gerald did it, you won't tho cuz you are too pussy.
Pussy boy.
So sez the
ANONYMOUS
COWARD.
I don't even know who this "Gerald" is, you dumbfuck Slashtard. Login and fight like a man!
How many tens of thousands of lines of C and Assembler and other languages code would I have to post to prove at least the software side of my claims?
The answer is "Infinity"; because you would always come back with some snarky remark, or continue to move the goalposts.
FOAD. I know what I have done. I'm frickin' over 60 years old, and still employed full-time doing (unfortunately, Windows) Software Development. When I started making money with microcontrollers, the term "Embedded Development" hadn't even been INVENTED yet!
Chrome books cost between $100-300.
You are comparing apples and oranges you faggot shill.
You are the dumbest person on this forum. Seriously. Post your real name and address or stfu.
You first, COWARD.
And since he's complaining about ACs all the time. He will realize that only accounts can mod. So actual logged in users are modding his lies down.
I NEVER said those ACs weren't actually Logged-In USERS. They just "Post Anonymously" when they want to DEFAME someone, and then turn around and MOD under their LOGIN.
Is the ability to use the apps you bought on any supported platform, regardless of whether you bought it on iOS or Android. Adobe does this for Mac/PC - if you buy a copy of Photoshop, you're allowed to use both the PC and Mac versions (they also let you install two copies - one on a desktop, one on a laptop).
The argument of everyone selling copyrighted stuff is that you're buying a license, not a product. Time for them to put their money where their mouth is and let you use that license on a different platform if you decide to switch.
Wages have moved significantly in the last 30 years. Just not for the working or middle class. The upper middle class which makes up most of Apple's customers has been growing rapidly for the last few decades.
Not in Europe. The 0.1% have dramatically improved their share, at the expense of everyone else. I consider myself at the upper end of the middle class, and things have become more and more difficult over the past years. I've heard similar impressions from people who earn considerably more than me, but are not among the super-rich (millionaires, but not billionaires).
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Or even if it's perfectly usable, notch-less, has a headphone jack and removable battery, and costs $100 - $200.
.... and is total shit, and receives zero support.
to reliably get OS updates and upgrades, and not have to put up with a botched Android UI and bloatware, that meant buying a Nexus phone and tablet. ... But then Google decided to give up on mid-price phones. They jacked up their prices, and a Pixel 3 now starts at $799.
True, but you have missed what replaced the Nexus. Google is using the same strategy as Microsoft in selling high-end aspirational hardware, while assisting other companies to provide cheaper versions.
For cheaper "non-botched UI", you should now be looking at the Android One program, and HMD Golbal ("Nokia") phones. before that, Lenovo/Motorola were doing excellent mid-range handsets, without bloating or "botching" the UI like Samsung.
https://www.android.com/one/
Others and I are still using stuff like iPhones (4S and 6+), MacBook Pros from 2012 and 2008, etc. I still use my decade old PCs.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
I've got a $250 lg phone that's just fine. Does everything but play Fortnite (and I can't imagine wanting to play a game like that on my phone). There are $400 Motorolas with user serviceable parts and super fast processors. There's tons of mid range options. Heck, I don't know why anyone would buy the $800 google phone. My coworker's got one and their kinda meh. Near as I can tell You buy it to buy it. Either because you want to own the "cutting edge" or you want folks to think you do.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Android One wasnâ(TM)t around in the US until last year, and then only via Project Fi. Iâ(TM)d given up and switched by then. And Google still donâ(TM)t have anything like Android One for tablets.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Android One wasnâ(TM)t around in the US until last year,
That's why I said "before that, Lenovo/Motorola were doing excellent mid-range handsets, without bloating".
Motorola's handset update track record was spotty — my wife had one. Lenovo didn't sell their handsets in the US, or I'd have bought one, as I get discounts on Lenovo hardware.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Nope, and I haven't needed any support.
Congrats on getting the point - buy whatever it is you want at whatever price you're willing to pay. But - no one cares about removable batteries. Even the people who say they care, don't care. Removable batteries are small and easy to lose - so you'd use a case with a built in battery back up instead. Or an external power brick. Both options will give you 24/7 uptime on a cell phone, for those who absolutely-cannot-be-without-service-for-one-minute.
So people lose their shit and queue up overnight every year for 5/6 year old devices? Right. You may be typical of the older apple user but not of the current generation and like it or not you are associated with them. Deal with it. Apple is overpriced, its not better, it's just more expensive.
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So people lose their shit and queue up overnight every year for 5/6 year old devices? Right. You may be typical of the older apple user but not of the current generation and like it or not you are associated with them. Deal with it. Apple is overpriced, its not better, it's just more expensive.
If you don't think Apple hardware and software is better overall, then you just aren't paying attention.
Apple isn't perfect; just almost always much better than everyone else making this shit.
And younger fandroids have the EXACT same "problem" with "gotta have the new shiny". It has NOTHING to do SPECIFICALLY with Apple. It's just the rampant consumerism that is the hallmark of this vacuous "Me First" generation.
If you think Apple hardware and software is better overall, then you just aren't paying attention.
Apple isn't perfect; they make stuff just as cheaply and cut all the same corners but they spend lots of time and effort on making it pretty so people think it's better and they ramp the price up.
And younger fandroids have the EXACT same "problem" with "gotta have the new shiny". It is just highlighted and taken to extremes with apple. You don't see midnight release events, days long queues at samsung or lg etc shops even when they try for it. It's just the rampant consumerism that is the hallmark of this vacuous "Me First" generation intersects nicely with the apple fanboy market.
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If you think Apple hardware and software is better overall, then you just aren't paying attention.
Apple isn't perfect; they make stuff just as cheaply and cut all the same corners but they spend lots of time and effort on making it pretty so people think it's better and they ramp the price up.
And younger fandroids have the EXACT same "problem" with "gotta have the new shiny". It is just highlighted and taken to extremes with apple. You don't see midnight release events, days long queues at samsung or lg etc shops even when they try for it. It's just the rampant consumerism that is the hallmark of this vacuous "Me First" generation intersects nicely with the apple fanboy market.
Apple is pretty transparent when they release a model that has been "cost reduced", like the iPhone XR vs. the X's. And you will note that, in that case, they reduced the cost NOT by reducing the QUALITY of the components used; but rather by reducing the FEATURE-SET supported. That's how they can retain PERFORMANCE metrics such as overall camera-quality, even without the extra cost of an additional rear camera, rather than just putting in a shitty camera, or last-year's SoC, etc.
In fact, Apple has never done the hideous "who's hard drives or memory are cheapest THIS week" crap that OEMs like Dell have been (in)famous for for DECADES. They just don't. If you open a MacBook Pro that was produced in June, 2018, it will al last certainly have the same exact components as one opened in February, 2019 (unless there is some unusual supplier problem, of course). That is NOT the case with the vast majority of other OEMs, especially when it comes to "commodity" components.
Apple hasn't done a midnight launch event since the first days of the iPhone (I don't think they even did one for the first iPad); so, to even bring that up at this point is disingenuous, at best.
And as for long lines (queues) for (usually iPhone) launches: Those are NOT "orchestrated" by Apple; but rather are a measure of (amazingly continued) excitement over their product-lines by the general public. And don't tell me that Samsung, Google, LG, Huwaei(sp?) and all the rest wouldn't KILL for the same enthusiasm, year after year, by MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of people, young and old, rich and poor.
Talk to any real marketing expert and ask them if they wouldn't like to bottle that particular brand of lightning.
I'm sure they would kill for it but that's part of the rampant must have iphoneism that you claim to deny exists. They are made in the same chinese factories by the same chinese workers with the same mass produced parts, they cost about the same to make as any similar featured phones but they put a massive mark up because they can and that the power the apple logo commands these days which has basically nothing to do with the actual quality of their goods. Fair enough from a business perspective but it doesnt mean they are any better. 20 years ago you might have had a point but apple are a shadow of their former selves hiding in bling. Nonexpandable, nonfixable, nonupgradable mass produced crap just like the rest but it pretends to be better.
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I'm sure they would kill for it but that's part of the rampant must have iphoneism that you claim to deny exists. They are made in the same chinese factories by the same chinese workers with the same mass produced parts, they cost about the same to make as any similar featured phones but they put a massive mark up because they can and that the power the apple logo commands these days which has basically nothing to do with the actual quality of their goods. Fair enough from a business perspective but it doesnt mean they are any better. 20 years ago you might have had a point but apple are a shadow of their former selves hiding in bling. Nonexpandable, nonfixable, nonupgradable mass produced crap just like the rest but it pretends to be better.
Excuse me.
IPhones have the Ax SoCs. No one else does. Their performance is head and shoulders above everyone else. Makes a difference. They also have the most well-integrated software-hardware "ecosystem" (yes I hate that term). And while iOS is is some ways not as sophisticated as Android (in ways that matter to about .0001% of the general public), overall, it still provides a better experience to most users. And again, they may not know why; but they intuitively "feel" that. Android, OTOH, still feels a little janky by comparison.
So it DOES mean they are "any better". That's what you "claim to deny exists".
And the rest of Apple gear is STILL Best In Class.
There will always be stuff that has one metric or another that "beats Apple" (temporarily), but all in all, and again, factoring in the fact that, for example, macOS is the best desktop OS, and an OS that dovetails seamlessly into iOS, WatchOS, and TVOS, and you have a series of products that deliver a more desirable experience, and one that only gets more and more better-er the more of those products you own.
No one else has that, either. And guess what? People notice. They may not understand the tech behind it all (why do they need to?), but they certainly recognize and appreciate the quiet synergy that Apple brings to their product family.
And the rest of Apple gear is STILL Best In Class.
What, the two to three year old fixed designs they sell? The same "pro" laptops that are locked down and only have one or two ports? Best in class? Fuck off, just stop. I don't care if you like apple and think they are the best thing to ever happen to computers but they are just not.
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And the rest of Apple gear is STILL Best In Class.
What, the two to three year old fixed designs they sell? The same "pro" laptops that are locked down and only have one or two ports? Best in class? Fuck off, just stop. I don't care if you like apple and think they are the best thing to ever happen to computers but they are just not.
In your not-so-humble OPINION
Unfortunately for you, their sales would tend to indicate that you are somewhat "outvoted".
sales != quality
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