Slashdot Mirror
National Parks Face Years of Damage From Government Shutdown (nationalgeographic.com)
When the government eventually reopens, park experts warn reversing damage won't be as easy as throwing out the trash. From a report: National parks are America's public lands, but right now they're America's trashcans. That's because the U.S. federal government, embattled over funding for a border wall, has shut down, leaving national parks open and largely unattended. Since the shutdown began, brimming trashcans, overflowing toilets, and trespassing has been reported at many parks locations. "Never before have I seen the federal government tempt fate in national parks the way we are today," says Diane Regas, president of the Trust for Public Land. "It's not about what has happened already. It's about what could happen if you don't have the appropriate staffing."
According to the National Parks Conservation Association (NPCA), staffing varies by park, but some 16,000 parks service employees are furloughed, leaving a small number active for policing and security. The government shut down three times in 2018, but only three days last January and less than a day that following February. As of Friday, the government had been partially shut down for 13 days. Further reading: Government Shutdown is Putting a Damper on Science in Seattle and Elsewhere.
According to the National Parks Conservation Association (NPCA), staffing varies by park, but some 16,000 parks service employees are furloughed, leaving a small number active for policing and security. The government shut down three times in 2018, but only three days last January and less than a day that following February. As of Friday, the government had been partially shut down for 13 days. Further reading: Government Shutdown is Putting a Damper on Science in Seattle and Elsewhere.
I'd expect something like this out of a third-world nation, not a world-leader.
How quickly you've fallen from your world power high in the mid 1970s.
SAD. But a few Boomers got rich so FUCK YEAH!!!
Like Roosevelt did, create a new CCC, or you could use community service sentences to do the work.
If there are arrests for trespassing... sentence them to work in the parks.
The horror!!!
;)
The National Parks have not be fully staffed for 14 days with more coming. The damage will last for generations!
from the article
Lamfrom says the full scale of the problem is yet to be determined but clean up timelines will range in length. "Some [efforts] will take weeks or months. Some will last generations. Some may not be able to be fixed."
Just my 2 cents
The historic tower in the Trump International Hotel in Washington DC is a national landmark. It's under the control of the park service. There are still National Park Rangers there keeping the tower open. Total coincidence they found money to do that, based no doubt on a dispassionate assessment of needs.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Since the National Park service changed their policies since 2013's shut down, they've been tracked pretty heavily throughout the news cycle. It's one of the bigger and more understandable parts of the shutdown facing the public, especially during the holidays.
They've covered the parks staying open, the lack of maintenance, volunteers cleaning Joshua Tree, Joshua Tree getting overwhelmed and shut down, Yellowstone's access roads closing (although not technically the park) because of snow, the deaths that have occurred in the various National Parks, etc.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Unstaffed national parks are great. I brought a chainsaw and now I have the makings of a dozen giant redwood tables. It would have cost more than my house to buy them from a legit wood shop.
Thanks to Trump, national parks are free of job killing regulations being enforced by the fascist fat car park rangers. I'll go out this week and get a giant slab of oak with the flatbed too.
Fun for the kids too, they can use the four wheelers and carve donuts on the worthless alpine prairie moss instead of gunking up the engine like when they do it on the dunes.
from what I remember trump promised the US would not be paying for that wall as Mexico would.
Yeah, but we're not talking about Washington D.C., we're talking about national parks.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
So let me get this straight... you're miffed that people didn't take YOUR feelings into account while you don't care for the feelings of others on this matter whom you'd be disturbing.
Yeah, I have a hard time feeling sorry for you.
If Trump really, really, really wants it. He can pay for it himself.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
+1 Funny,
+1 Insightful.
+1 Informative.
+1 Underrated.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
makes me sad that a great piece of nature can't stay clean for a few days unless there are paid people who clean up after the visitors - the real trash are the humans leaving their trash behind.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
But it won't save any money. It will lose the federal government money when it needs to start up everything again. There is also the tax on the rest of the economy due to not being able to access the government services they need, such as the courts. And that doesn't count the gov. employees not getting paid but having to work regardless, and the gov. employees simply not getting paid. If they are living paycheck to paycheck, they are SOL. Then there are the government contractors. Ever since Reagan, the Fed. Gov. was forced to contract out for some of its functions to the private sector. Those contractors are not getting paid. So their businesses get a hidden tax due to the disruption.
The last gov. shutdown cost the federal government $20 Billion. All become some dolt from Texas (Ted Cruz) got up one morning and decided to be even stupider than normal for him.
Much of the damage is from illegal pot grows,
Uh....what? Look, California and Oregon had a lot of illegal grows in the wilderness many years causing diesel damange to water.... But it hasn't been a problem in national parks ever. There is a big difference between BLM land, state forests, national forests........and national parks.
Who would try to grow weed in Yosemite?? that's just asking for trouble. There's so much empty (and more accessible) places nearby where people actually live and grow it.........
The units of the NPS, the Smithsonian, and other cultural institutions simply will not continue to tolerate shutdown after shutdown. Many of them already have private foundations which assist their operations, and because they're so under-funded by the gov't to begin with (e.g., Smithsonian is the only Federal agency actually allowed to fund-raise because of their pathetic level of funding) and with the gov't continually using them as a political football, it's not a stretch for them all to go fully public-private and just opt out of the whole broken system. For example, Gettysburg National Military Park has done this for years now, and while their NPS staff have indeed been furloughed, the Visitors Center and battlefield are both open during this current shutdown, paid for by the Gettysburg Foundation. Some foundations at other NPS units are actually paying ranger salaries so they can keep working.
Oh yeah, and it's time for Smithsonian to start charging an entry fee. Discount / waive it for the poor if you wish, but well-off and middle-class visitors can and should pay *something*. Even our friends in Europe charge admission fees to their museums.
Well a lot of the existing border fencing does need repairs/upgrades so it would be an infrastructure project.
And the Dems are offering $1.5 billion for upgrades to border security and infrastructure. But Trump has to have his Great Wall of Trump. All this shut down is going to do is cost us more money. All the people who worked during the shutdown will still get paid. All the people who didn't work over the shutdown will get paid (there's no way Congress will let hundreds of thousands of government workers go a month without pay). And then we will have to pay for the overtime for every department to clear weeks worth of backlogs.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
And Obama said that under Obamacare you could keep your doctor.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Over the past decade, Democrats have supported billions of dollars in funding for physical barriers. In 2006, the Secure Fence Act passed with bipartisan support requiring the construction of physical barriers along 700 miles of the nearly 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border. Sixty-four Democrats voted the measure in the House and 26 in the Senate.
The current Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer voted for it, so did Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. Then-Illinois Sen. Barack Obama praised the bill in a floor speech saying it would "certainly do some good" and "help stem some of the tide of illegal immigration in this country."
In 2013, all Senate Democrats and most House Democrats backed comprehensive immigration reform legislation, the so-called Gang of Eight bill. It included $46 billion for border security and around $8 billion to repair or reinforce barriers along the 700 miles of the border as required under the Secure Fence Act.
Yeah but there are already walls and fencing where they're needed, just buy some surveillance drones to patrol the rest of the border and you're done. A Great Wall is dumb.
yep but because it was something tump wanted there going to fight it. even tho they did it themselves.in the past.
these people learn the guards habits and litterly run in behind them.
Should be easy to catch them then, just follow the trail of trash. The money the Dems are offering isn't just for more guards, it's to repair/upgrade infrastructure as well. That means repaired existing fencing, more cameras, etc.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
And Obama said that under Obamacare you could keep your doctor.
And Obamacare was patterned after the healthcare legislation signed into law in Massachusetts by that perennial liberal Mitt Romney.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
You want to be left alone. I want to murder you.
Let's compromise in the middle, you can kill yourself. This way you don't get bothered by me, and I still get to have you dead.
You know it's funny. When Obama was president every one of these Democratic party leaders in congress and the senate voted for border security measures which included a wall. Hundreds of miles of wall and fencing was built and maintained by agencies of the Obama administration and nobody called it immoral. No one was against it.
Now all of a sudden becasue it would be a win for Trump and the Republicans they're against a wall. Meanwhile a border crisis is happening and rather than commit funds to deal with it the Democrats want to give up national sovereignty rather than give Trump a win.
As for the National Parks, if there's a problem a group of citizen should come together and take up the slack. If people want to use the National Parks while they are unstaffed, because they are not closed, then they should pack out their trash, just as they would do in any other wilderness areas. And lets be clear the parks are not closed. They are the opposite of closed. Parks which normally charge for entrance have had their gates left wide open and are free to enter now. One might almost be thinking that someone has deliberately created a situation where trash would accumulate and bad actors would come in and create problems. If the parks were closed the gates would have been locked and signs posted telling visitors that the parks are closed. This has not happened.
As I say. If you are going to visit the parks now be a responsible user and pack your trash out. If you really want to help take you pickup over to a nearby park and bag the trash and cart it off. Be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem.
Illegal immigration doesn't cost money. It's probably a net overall GAIN to the US economy (https://clas.berkeley.edu/research/immigration-economic-benefits-immigration).
I'm not sick of it. I want more immigration. I have friends that are here illegally, and they contribute a lot socially and economically.
I don't respond to AC's.
Maybe that's because they perceived this as a sufficient and adequate response. Maybe the ROI on continuing to invest in walls and fencing has reached the point of ridiculousness. Maybe America doesn't actually have an immigration crisis, and justifying continued investment in fencing to filter out hypothetical Mexican rapists is an immoral act of unfounded prejudice.
Your entire model of hypocrisy leaves out of the possibility that the previous response was a proportional response, and the proposed response is a disproportionate response. There's no two ways about this: Americans want to buy Californian fruit at a price you can only have if the fruit is picked by undocumented immigrants, without actually having the immigrants.
So you disparage the immigrants so that they have no rights whatsoever in the country where the work and reside, until you've got a de facto caste society.
Once upon a time, India did not have a caste society as rigid as the one they have now. But for some reason, there caste system solidified. Was it the people on the bottom who wanted to become permanently consigned to an underclass? Or was it the people at the top, who wanted something akin to slavery (all the benefits, few of the costs) without turning people into actual property (which is problematic, and always has been).
America's Deep South has never quite forgotten the wonderful heroine hit of being a gentrified ruling class, where you can sit in your drawing rooms and perfect your manners (and mannerisms), while some other group of people is baking in the hot sun for long hours doing the scut work. Gosh, what if you could have that without slavery? What if you could hem and howl until the immigrants had a status below dirt, and do everything conceivable to pretend to stop this, while actually still providing the immigrants with all the same work opportunities? (All the better to sate one's enormous appetite on cheap, local fruit.)
The wall then becomes a permanent monument to the notion, "well, we did what we could" and the immigrants are still showing up to do the same nasty jobs as the same low, low wages (with few benefits), well that just proves that they're lowly and incorrigible and deserve what they get.
Voila: caste system. All of the benefits, few of the costs.
I'll gladly believe otherwise once there's a vigorous enforcement effort to arrest businessmen who routinely look the other way over worker documentation (with the prospect of serious jail time for repeat offenses). Rounding up the first 1000 would be like gathering windblown apples off the ground. That would slow undocumented immigration down to a trickle at way less cost than Trump's giant monument to caste-society lust.
Problem: a sudden wave of orchard bankruptcies among hard-working, tax-paying Californian orchard owners (mostly white) would shine a harsh spotlight in the evening news cycle for many months on the actual hypocrisy here. We wants them in one way (cheap prices), but we don't wants them in the other way (affording them dignity and civil rights).
A hugely expensive wall (that still won't actually work) is just a giant branding exercise in justifying this extremely un-American division between labour and civil rights. This is not so different from the extremely un-American division between taxation and representation that once lead to a giant tea party.
But times change, and tea party rebrand themselves. Now we're more like the British society from which we once sought refuge, than we are like our forefathers (and foremothers) who bravely endured the back-breaking labour of setting up shop in a giant land of opportunity, theirs for the taking.
They're all the same fucking party. That's what alot of people don't understand. It's why 3rd parties aren't allowed to get anywhere when they run, because it would show off the hypocrisy of the "2 party" system. It got worse after Bill Clinton. He pushed the Democrats so far right they became Republicans.
But Trump was very clear on numerous occasions that Mexico was going to pay for the wall. Consequently he has no electoral mandate for getting USA tax payers to pay for the wall. Heck at the last set of elections he lost control of the House so one could argue legitimately there is an electoral mandate to oppose him trying to get USA tax payers to pay for the wall. a break from his election promise of 2016.
Diane Regas according to Forbes:
"I am Executive Director of Environmental Defense Fund, where I direct our strategic plan and mission to address to global climate change and natural resource challenges. I am passionate about increasing shared prosperity and stewardship both domestically and internationally, while also developing scientifically and economically sound solutions. I spent five years at EDF managing the Oceans Program advocating for reforms and programs that help fisherman while also rebounding fisheries in the U.S., Mexico and Europe. I’ve also worked closely on our climate and energy projects, identifying new ways to open markets to clean energy financing. Before joining EDF, I spent 20 years developing and supporting scientifically sound bipartisan solutions to environmental challenges at the Environmental Protection Agency."
In other words, despite the last sentence there this undeniably a partisan political drive.
Really, common sense should tell you that nothing of much significance happens in the span of a couple weeks, especially when park rangers and security are still there. Most of this staff didn't even exist pre-Clinton and many state and private parks are serviced by fewer staff and less frequently on an ongoing basis while remaining great resources.
I just find it hilarious to watch you Americans bitch about a paltry $5B border wall, but look the other way when an audit of the Pentagon (which itself costs a billion a year, for the past 28 years) confirms that indeed, trillions of dollars are unaccounted for and in fact they have no idea exactly how much money is unaccounted for.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Yes, illegal immigration costs money. Provably so. I guess if you think otherwise, you'll willingly let anyone who desires to move in with you for free, you can feed, clothe, educate, protect, and provide healthcare for them, and their services as an occasional maid or cook would more than offset the costs?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Much as I hate Trump, this quote was never meant literally.
He didn't intend for the budget of the Wall to be paid for by Mexico. He intended the budget to be matched by trade gains. Mexico paying for the wall means the US gains enough money on trade that the wall is figuratively paid-for.
Of course that trade increase is also complete hyperbole with no backing in reality or even economic theory. The wall would be funded by US taxpayers, to no one's surprise. But no one should truly believe Trump expected Mexico to hand out cash for Trump's big ego project. That's just a strawman.
The history of state management of their lands doesn't support point. For example, the state of Oklahoma has had to severely cut back on their own parks due to budget problems. States will just as quickly sell of their lands.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Massive? I'm not sure that's the word I would pick myself.
Total number of illegal border crossings in the us is about 500,000 per year. With roughly 365 days in a year that's about 1400 people per day. Only about half of the illegal border crossings are at the southern border though so we're looking at 700 entries per day.
The conservative Cato Institute published a response to that FAIR report.
Key quote:
It's Oklahoma. One empty flat boring 'park' is plenty. Nobody goes to Oklahoma for vacation, the people that live there just stopped wherever their wagon broke. Still have the broken wheel by the drive to mark the location.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Oklahoma is the epitome of what's wrong with the argument. They are one of the states that wants more control of the national park lands in their state. Yet they are so badly managed that they cannot afford their current state parks.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.