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China Bans 23 Million From Buying Travel Tickets as Part of 'Social Credit' System (theguardian.com)
China blocked 23 million "discredited" travelers from buying plane or train tickets last year as part of the country's controversial "social credit" system aimed at improving the behavior of citizens. From a report: According to the National Public Credit Information Centre's 2018 report, 17.5 million people were banned from buying flights and 5.5 million barred from purchasing high-speed train tickets because of social credit offences. The report released last week said: "Once discredited, limited everywhere." The social credit system aims to incentivize "trustworthy" behavior through penalties as well as rewards. According to a government document about the system dating from 2014, the aim is to "allow the trustworthy to roam everywhere under heaven while making it hard for the discredited to take a single step." Social credit offenses range from not paying individual taxes or fines to spreading false information and taking drugs.
That's what this bullshit sounds like: a bad parent, who never forgets anything bad their kid did, continually reminds them, and always suspects them before anyone else when something bad happens, always believes the so-called 'good kid'. 'Guilty until proven innocent'. You may as well just kill these people, it would be less cruel.
"allow the trustworthy to roam everywhere under heaven while making it hard for the discredited to take a single step."
Discredited here includes voicing an opinion against the prevailing totalitarian regime or someone in power. Can you say dystopian.
It's coming here right now. Just look at the deplatforming being done by Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, Patreon.
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
... people who break the law or don't pay dept are low value and, depending, denied employment, guns, voting rights, incarcerated, evicted, fined, denied credit, denied loans ...
The approach is certainly newsworthy but the outcome is similar.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
No. Just no. Nothing of the sort has been proposed.
I'm absolutely certain this system comes with the all the due process checks and balances necessary to ensure it's not abused by the wealthy and connected to punish those they disagree with.
In fact I'm absolutely sure it come with absolutely no due process whatsoever. Kinda like Guantanamo or the no fly list. This is one those tools the Chinese will use to abuse people who don't fall in line with the communist party or dare criticize the leadership.
There's a huge difference between organizations enforcing their own rules and the government running a system to disenfranchise people.
Sounds like nazi germany how long before camps for people of groups like Falun Gong and others are put in them?
There's a big difference between habitual harassers being run off platforms (by those platforms) because they broke their TOS and the government making it so that you cannot travel.
Are you saying that companies have no free speech? I cannot choose who uses my platform or not? Or does that only apply when bakers refuse to make cakes for gay couples?
Coming to a western democracy near you soon.
China must have tremendous confidence in its ability to suppress people to create common cause for 23 million people to hate the system. That big a number must contain a lot of capable people - and no doubt a bunch of mistakes. All of those now have a clear and undeniable focus for their rage and rebellion.
This sounds like a program likely to have unexpected results
You *are* aware that comment trains are not *actual* trains, aren't you?
Ezekiel 23:20
Why do you believe that private companies have to provide a publishing platform for ideas that are deemed to be repulsive or counter to established principles? The alt-right (and extreme left) are marginalized and unpopular so they believe that others should be required to publish their crap. Get your own damn social network media
If you post things they deem as politically divergent from their ideals you get a bad social platform score. Your post get higher "gravity". If you continue to post things against their ideology you get put in social media jail and eventually your get banished altogether.
1. There is no concept in modern America of "did the time, paid for the crime" with regard to social attitudes and how ex-felons can be treated.
2. Say something "offensive" in public and watch a wild-eyed mob that makes a witch-burning look tame come after and try to make sure there is "no place in society" for you.
3. Now corporations are getting in on the act with Chase locking accounts because the person was a Badthinker(tm).
Organisations like those that run trains in China you mean?
You are harassing me with these statements, and should be run off all social media platforms for it.
Google has been using this model for YouTube for over a year now. Twitter and Facebook too. Blacklists are back around the world as a way to exercise power.
They're literally putting Uighurs in reeducation camps right now.
Wow. You use free-market ideology when it suits you and disparage it when it doesn't.
When you say that companies must serve the public (bakers, woolworth, etc...) then do it for all companies.
I know I won't convince you. It's sad that you think deplatforming people for disagreement is acceptable. Bruce Jenner won the decathlon in 1976. Oooh. According to some fools I'm "dead" naming. Look at the fools at google - they have Caitlin Jenner as the winner of the 1976 decathlon. I think this is foolsihness of the first order. And for that I can be deplatformed from Twitter.
The American Cultural Revolution is at peak stupidity. Watch the coming fights between the feminist and lesbian communities and the transgender community over what constitutes a woman.
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
You're either being sarcastic or overlooking the current Muslim detention camps:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/16/world/asia/xinjiang-china-forced-labor-camps-uighurs.html
Normally I'm all for bashing China, but
Social credit offenses range from not paying individual taxes or fines to spreading false information and taking drugs.
Seeing how we use actual prison for #1 and #3, and are working on it for #2, maybe they aren't as harsh as they sound with this ...
Coming to a western democracy near you soon.
The San Francisco Tech Oligopoly are doing their best. Fortunately, they aren't backed by the rule of law (yet) and in the US new alternatives are gradually emerging to allow uncensored political discussion online.
It's a much worse situation in e.g. the UK, where it's now illegal to offend people, and blasphemy laws are routinely enforced (under the label of hate speech). But the UK hasn't fallen off the cliff yet. There was discussion in parliament a while back during the riots about removing benefits for people identified as rioters (most of whom have no practical means of legal survival except a government check). But the discussion didn't go anywhere, and sanity prevailed for now. Still prety close to that cliff edge though.
It's not at all clear that a society can ever recover from a panopticon totalitarianism.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
The Chinese have persecuted the falun gong with even more vengeance.
The Chinese Communist Party sees any independent civil society organization as a threat, because it can form a nucleus for political unrest. Falun Gong has gone much further than the Christian churches in creating a parallel civil society structure outside of CCP control. The illegal churches are mostly independent of each other, and try to keep a low profile. Falun Gong has directly challenged the CCP, even holding several big protests in Tiananmen Square back in 1999-2000.
I think the problem is that who they want on their platform is not codified up front. I'm liberal, and I'm rather disgusted by how many people are thrown off these platforms. And then anytime someone comes along and tries to make one that's "free speech" based, it's immediately associated with nazis or other bad elements.
If Twitter wants their platform to be for far-left ideologues only, okay. But say that up front.
t's not like social media is where a sizeable amount of people get their information regarding society and politics.
I think you misspelled "disinformation"...
Ezekiel 23:20
The sad truth is that it's already happening https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_camps
Isn't that for people to decide and work out themselves instead of unaccountable tech giants with monopolistic control over information online?
China is fast approaching the level of control that Orwell's 1984 describes. We're close to one security camera per citizen. Add total control of Internet, be it fixed or mobile, by the state, as well as total control of social media and payment, and you already have a system that is virtually impossible to escape from.
I am not fucking putting foot in the Peple's Republic of China. It jsut isn't happening.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
You might think so, but people are building apps that record a permenent database on you and anything you did online, so it will float above your head in a virtual overlay. It is just like that Black Mirror episode but on steroids.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
And be careful wishing for public opinion driving corporations to ignore people tracked by a database as having supported candidate X. That shoe could ne on the other foot.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
I don't understand your comment. People shouldn't be the ones to decide how they are informed because tech giants with monopolistic control over information online have databases of information that can be used to misinform people?
I don't know what Black Mirror is and haven't seen it.
We already have it.
When someone has committed a felony or has been arrested (even if innocent) the action is on the record, making it harder for people to get jobs, apply for loans, and do things in general to help them improve their lives.
For a lot of criminals, they don't do crime because they want to be a bad person, they do it because they cannot see any better alternatives. Then if they get caught, and once they leave jail, even more better alternatives are now off the table.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Maybe China would be better off following Singapore's example. Transgressions like those described are punished by flogging.
Being an asshole isn't a protected class.
Journalist, He Huifeng, has a very good article on this and contrary to what some posters here have falsely claimed, it has already been used to quiet dissenters, etc. It is most definitely structured for command and absolute control of the populace:
https://www.scmp.com/economy/c...
Very well articulated, Good Citizen!
It's coming here right now. Just look at the deplatforming being done by Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, Patreon.
The one is nothing like the other. In one case, we're talking about a government deplatforming its people from all platforms, thus depriving its people of fundamental freedoms—the right to move, in this case—which are frequently exercised out of necessity, not convenience, due to factors outside of one's control. In the other case, we're talking about individual organizations deplatforming their own users from only their own platform, thus depriving those users of no rights or freedoms and not costing those users anything beyond what they knowingly and voluntarily elected to build on top of that platform.
Put differently, the only people who need Facebook and its ilk are the ones who made choices that put them in a position of dependence, but any person could need to fly or take a train at some point due to a death in the family, work, or other obligations forced on them. We can choose not to depend on Facebook (I certainly have), but good luck choosing not to depend on fast transportation when you need it. Moreover, given that nearly everyone's reaction to learning that I either don't have or don't use accounts at any of the sites you listed is (after an incredulous "Really?") something to the effect of "You're almost certainly better off for it", I'd say that even the heaviest of users recognizes that those platforms are an inessential part of their lives.
You argue that the companies control the government, but then say it's good that the same companies censor people you dislike, because it's not the government doing it. Your hypocrisy is rich.
You just lost the debate.
Well America does it privately. Credit bureaus to keep track of if you didn't pay back loans, lists of people who were arrested along with a culture of not hiring someone if previously arrested, as you must be a bad person if ever arrested and a really bad person if found or forced to plead guilty. As it is a private decision not to hire, rent housing etc it's considered fine.
Government also gets involved with lists of people not allowed to fly, lists of people not allowed to live in certain places, lists of people not allowed to own firearms and even lists of people not allowed to vote.
These lists usually make sense at first look, eg not allowing sex offenders to live by kids, until you look at all the reasons the government will put you on the sex offenders list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
There are orders of magnitude here. 23,000,000 is a lot of people. The US has 326 million people. That would be 7% of the US population which would have their passports revoked, and even permits to go between states (which don't exist) yanked.
Yes, the US has issues, but there are orders of magnitudes of difference between what goes on here and the extensiveness of China's oppressive tactics.
Don't forget, you can dispute credit scores. In fact, I have seen people with -crap- for scores still get credit cards, cars, and mortgages. Arrests require a trial, even if it is a show trial. In China, there is no way to contest this, and there is no due process. If an arresting official wants your organs for the organ bank, he will get them.
Wow. You use gross stereotyping and false assumptions when it suits you and can't debate the point with rational arguments
The Chinese have persecuted the falun gong with even more vengeance.
And both are wrong. Persecuting someone for their religion is wrong either way.
We already have it.
When someone has committed a felony or has been arrested (even if innocent) the action is on the record, making it harder for people to get jobs, apply for loans, and do things in general to help them improve their lives.
For a lot of criminals, they don't do crime because they want to be a bad person, they do it because they cannot see any better alternatives. Then if they get caught, and once they leave jail, even more better alternatives are now off the table.
As bad as that is, it impacts far fewer people than what China does; although, it's probably inevitable that we're sliding down the same path in the US unless some sort of regulation on how private data is shared.
Over here it might not be so much a government sponsored score; but one maintained by private companies.
AI identifies a tattoo on one guy on his facebook photo. Because on average the average person without tattoos probably does less jail time than the person with tattoos- he drops 40 points in his score (despite being law-abiding). His Amazon account shows he has bought a t-shirt with "it's 4:20 somewhere" written on it. He drops another 40 points. Wal-mart reports he bought a lot of beer in the last month (he threw a party)- he drops another 20 points. He goes to buy a plane ticket from Delta but the flights are all booked and so he is put on wait list.
A seat opens up, but a clean shaven guy who buys self-help books and metrosexual skin creams gets the seat instead; Delta could have given it to either guy but determines that the metrosexual is less likely to cause damage and cause a scene because he has a higher civic score.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
There's a huge difference between organizations enforcing their own rules and the government running a system to disenfranchise people.
However when no alternative exists in either system then the net result is the same - disenfranchised people. And disenfranchised people who have no outlet will get more extreme.
No. Just no. Nothing of the sort has been proposed.
Not on a government level but Facebook has been trying to share data with your bank account. All sorts of other private companies share data about you between themselves. We already have the first steps in place for a privately run civic score.
Why do you think Facebook wants your bank account information? It's so that they can place ads to people based on the money they have. "Check Into Cash" for poor people and "Apple Watches" for rich people.
Why do you think the Bank wants your Facebook information? You can learn a lot about a person by what they post to Facebook.
We've already got our foot in the door to a private version of what the Chinese government has started. What we need is for laws that make it harder for private companies to share data about you.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
That has to be the shittiest rationalization of crime ever.
If Mr. X steals something from Mr. Y and the cops accidentally arrest you before realizing their mistake; you're innocent, but you have a public record that people can look up on the internet.
You don't have to actually commit a crime to be listed online for having been arrested for one.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Fuck China.
I'll try- but there's far too many of them and I need more downtime between encounters than I did as a teenager.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Fuck that, lets just kill the nazis. Worked last time.
You might want to research what happened to Falun Gong. You're about 20 years late to rescue them from being put in camps and turned into living organ banks. Not even exaggerating. Look it up.
It's 1.66% of China's population. Pointing out that 23 million is a large percentage of the USA population is an absurd attempt at disinformation.
For an equivalent group in the USA, we might look at people whose right to vote (and to hold a lot of jobs) has been revoked due to a previous felony conviction. As of 2016, 2.5% of the USA's voting age population was barred from voting due to a felony -- if you spread that out over the full population, it'd be just a little more than than China's socially discredited group. Considering China imprisons far fewer people, social credit may be seen as an alternative punishment for that population.
(Of course, the entire Chinese population lacks the right to meaningful voting.)
This space intentionally left blank
America has never claimed to be a democracy. Always a republic.
On the other hand China is much more of a totalitarian state.
No freedom of speech.
Pretend freedom of religion, that is something more like freedom of declared creed, so long is you are ok with punishment for your declaration.
No freedom of expression, No freedom to choose your own career or life.
Can someone from China Please explain why the communist have been allowed to stay it power so long.
( is it simply that they are very efficient and killing and dispersing dissenters?)
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
yes, but in the U.S.A. they do have an outlet. They can always find a different platform to communicate, other ways to pool money etc.
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
"Associated with" nazis, or "frequented by" nazis?
Doesn't really matter. I don't agree with nazi ideology, but it's the right to associate with whom you choose. Everyone gets free speech, or it's not actually free speech.
Do you agree that it is the nazi part that is the problem?
Not anymore than any other speech out there. I see all kinds of hate for all kinds of groups out there. It's fine until it gets to the territory of calling for violence. So groups are free to hate on other groups. I think it's stupid and moronic to hate someone for having an immutable trait, but, that's part of freedom; the freedom to be moronic and stupid.
Honestly, you sound like a nazi trying to pretend to be a liberal, rather than a liberal.
Oh? Can you show me what values I share with nazis? I didn't know a nazi value was "everyone should have free speech"; that's news to me. Does that make the founders of the US also nazis as free speech was a value they believed in?
"Associated with" nazis, or "frequented by" nazis?
Doesn't really matter. I don't agree with nazi ideology, but it's the right to associate with whom you choose. Everyone gets free speech, or it's not actually free speech.
Do you agree that it is the nazi part that is the problem?
Not anymore than any other speech out there. I see all kinds of hate for all kinds of groups out there. It's fine until it gets to the territory of calling for violence. So groups are free to hate on other groups. I think it's stupid and moronic to hate someone for having an immutable trait, but, that's part of freedom; the freedom to be moronic and stupid.
Honestly, you sound like a nazi trying to pretend to be a liberal, rather than a liberal.
Oh? Can you show me what values I share with nazis? I didn't know a nazi value was "everyone should have free speech"; that's news to me. Does that make the founders of the US also nazis as free speech was a value they believed in?
I must also be a very odd nazi with believing and supporting things like equality, same sex marriage, immigration reform, social safety nets based on class (for everyone, but mainly targeting the poor), single payer healthcare...those are nazi values?
There's a huge difference between organizations enforcing their own rules and the government running a system to disenfranchise people.
There is in functioning societies where there is a distinction between public institutions and private ones.
Increasingly in the US and Europe the wonderful innovation of Neoliberalism has blurred those lines so much that the distinction you draw is more theoretical than practical. The bottom line is that big corporation have powers that only a few years ago were reserved for the state.
Prisons are run by private, profit-making companies. All the public commons are now owned by someone. All methods of communications are increasingly censored and regulated. All this is happening, no need for a government to do anything.
And guess what? Despite what the folks like the Neocons claim, it ain't working. Yes, governments are inefficient and incompetent and corrupt. But the thing is, there are limits placed on their power. When corporations take over essential functions they are replacing government agencies with organizations who are more efficient, but they are every bit as corrupt, and they have fewer limits placed on what they can do. The government needs a court order to tap your communications. Thanks to Jeff Flake, your cable company can listen to anything you do and forward it to third party, and you can't do anything about it. They don't even need to tell you.
People's lives can be seriously fucked over by twitter, and it doesn't matter that twitter is a "private" thing: it can be just a deleterious as any government-run credit system
Governments used to understand this, and when a company had a de facto monopoly heavy regulation was placed on them (ironically, that was the US's most creative and expansive period, current cries of "we need freedom to innovate" not withstanding).
Governments exhibit corruption and will always do so. In China they can discredit you and keep you from moving around. In the West, the corruption these days is usually expressed in the ceading of power to private companies
At this rate china will very quickly pass up the us.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
Black Mirror - Season 3 Ep 1 - Nosedive
I can see it happening.
5 out of 6 people enjoy Russian Roulette & 6 out of 7 Dwarfs are not Happy
When killing nazis, there is no value in differentiating between the "true believers" and those who defend them.
This comment puts you around the same level as a nazi. You're free to say it, but you're disgusting. Just like a nazi.
If they did this in the U.S., some percentage of creditless people, isolated from family and friends by their inability to travel, and unable to do anything meaningful to escape their stressful lives, would likely lose the will to live, and would probably take a bunch of people with them when they went.
China, with its strict ban on private ownership of firearms, might not have that problem to the same extent, but I would still expect this to cause a significant increase in suicides and murders, and in particular, murders of children by parents.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
This is true and like the PRC the wealthy and connected can insulate themselves from the system. The US military was doing this until 71' with the SPN codes on the DD214 which followed the victim for the rest of their lives.
>There's a huge difference between organizations enforcing their own rules and the government running a system to disenfranchise people.
When the end result is the same, what difference does the means make?
We live in a "free speech society" where it's okay for the business that owns the town square to censor any speech, and throw out any person. In what meaningful way is that censorship different from government decree? Oh that's right, I can vote out/in government officials to change things, but I can't vote out/in the business that owns the town square.
How many centuries have we fought wars and rebellions over the rights we're supposed to have today? Control freaks have realized they can't control from government anymore - it's too neutered. Now they are subverting corporations to enforce their control freak psychopathy on the public by doing an end run around the rules we fought with blood, sweat, and tears over centuries, to enforce on the government.
I only have two words for the people who support corporate abuse of our society, simply because "It's not the government": Fuck. You.
Not if the organizations are using utility like protections to pass on a users own words, links as a users own publication.
Social media is then trying to become the publisher of a users content with bans, reporting, removal of content.
Social media cannot enjoy the full protections of been a utility while acting like a publisher and removing users political content.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Depends on when a social media company wants to use the full protection of been a utility to pass on a users comments.
To become the publish of a users comments with all the other laws that go with publication.
Want people to interact with the gov on social media? Thats the protection of a utility.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
It is a very bad idea to hire criminals to work for you. It's not some horrible US culture. If it's such a wrong, why don't YOU hire some criminals to work for you? Oh, you won't be doing that? But the rest of us have to expose ourselves to unnecessary risk just so you can feel better about yourself. Gotcha.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Also a good way to convince the bad ones that they might as well *really* be bad because, heck, they've got nothing to lose.
I wonder about this also; if you are in a deep enough hole you may as well keep digging and see if you can reach the other side.
It cannot be good fo society as a whole to bottle up people's movements like this, forcing someone to stay in an area and get angrier and angrier about it... sounds like a really bad idea.
In a way we should all thank the Chinese for going so flat-out on this idea, because a lot of governments are agitating to do similar things but if the Chinese system runs into major issues it will prevent other governments from trying. On the other hand if they iron out the problems by force, and the system appears to work - it could be more likely to spread. :-(
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The trick a lot of US bands try and do politically is set persons reputation within that sector to something like that of a banned group under color of law.
:)
Great for virtue signalling for a while but its within the private sector.
It works for a while until a person works out legally its not the full power of US gov secrecy protecting such an industry wide shared reputation database.
Discovery then sets in and the who and why a person was added to a banned group list is out in the open.
Thats really the difference with the USA. The USA has discovery on why a person had their good reputation changed.
The gov cannot stop publication, free speech and stop a person after speech. The US gov cannot take away the ability to publish.
The private sector can try and set a united position on political speech, funding.
But once a person finds out what was done to their good reputation for political reasons they can ask why in the USA.
They can also tell the world why they got their accounts altered industry wide at the same time
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Funny that, I dont see anywhere in the first amendment where it applies to companies restricting free speech, just the government. Maybe you can argue that we should accept that we do have a de facto common communication system and we should consider restricting when and where large companies can censor. But, as it stands, we do not have free speech protections from Facebook on Facebook.
For an equivalent group in the USA, we might look at people whose right to vote (and to hold a lot of jobs) has been revoked due to a previous felony conviction.
What we need is more information about what crimes were committed by the 23 million Chinese? Were they drug dealers or bank robbers? Were they convicted of felonies? How many of the crimes were related to "spreading false information"? It's this latter crime that is the crucial difference between the Chinese and American systems. There is no 1st Amendment in China, so there is no protection for thought or speech. The standard for defamation in the US is very high and for political defamation even higher.
Are people who have been arrested and then released for whatever reason criminals. Are people who got convicted of having some pot 30 years ago criminals? Not to mention people who made a bad decision years back.
It's attitudes like yours that leads to America having millions of people in jail, blanket generalizations rather then considering on a case by case basis, especially in a country where everyone commits a couple of felonies a day.
Perhaps one day, you'll get arrested, threatened with multiple charges adding up to a good chunk of life in jail and due to spending all your money on medical issues, you won't be able to pay a lawyer, have to plead guilty and join the criminal ranks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
However when no alternative exists
Except alternatives do exist.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
If the hosting companies are allowed to decide who to host, it effectively means they get to censor us based on whatever they want. That's bullshit.
No one forces you to read extremist websites and get offended. The same assholes get to have parades too. Bet that drives you nuts eh?
The Internet is such a cornerstone to our society that it needs to be treated as a utility. We all know why it's not. Corruption.
How am I suppose to start my own social network when this can happen?
https://www.knoxnews.com/story...
Hardly seems fair. Hosting companies shouldn't be able to discriminate but clearly they are allowed to do so.
Since the hosting company is a private company, that must be okay, right?
So because you disagree with their dribble means they shouldn't get to say it?
4. Political inertia: the majority alive today in China have little/no experience of a working democratic republic. They are used to a totalitarian dictatorship. One doesn't miss what one's never had (and what the de facto gov't there makes sure one knows little about).
China has also basically been an imperial or totalitarian state for thousands of years. One shouldn't underestimate that level of ingraining acceptance of that government style in the culture.
Many people hire illegal immigrants to do their yardwork, or to work at their business. Not hiring people with a criminal record is more CYA if something happens and there's a liability suit: "You KNEW they had a record of doing X and yet you hired them anyways, therefore you're liable since they did Y on the job!"
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
Using the word 'metrosexual' unironically in a sentence: negative 100 points.
Using the word 'unironically' in a sentence: negative 200 points.
Using self-effacing humor: negative 300 points.
Mocking social credit systems: priceless.
Using dead memes: death penalty.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
It's worth pointing out that TLAs already monitor your social media accounts (Elon keeps getting busted by the SEC for stuff he says on Twitter) and your bank accounts (IRS).
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
There's a huge difference between organizations enforcing their own rules and the government running a system to disenfranchise people.
I'll bite.
What's the difference between government running a disenfranchisement system and government allowing someone else to run it?
Being an asshole isn't a protected class.
Assholes deserve just as much protection as any other "class".
When someone comes along and labels you an asshole you'll understand why.
I know the Slashdot audience consists of a bunch of middle-aged, overweight, misogynistic, libertarian losers, can we please make some positive comments about what China is doing? I'm being dead, fucking serious. Thanks.
Maybe totalitarian regimes are hard to defend. I'm being dead, fucking serious.
Canada isn't all that close if you're in Texas--USA is a large country.
Are people who were in HS or College and got drunk and did something stupid (black face, kiss a girl, etc) still criminals 30 years later? Even if they didn't do it but were just accused by someone with a political agenda?
You realize there are ways to kill lots of people w/o guns? In fact the worst school "shooting" was actually a guy w explosives?
There's not really a huge difference when the government is giving license to those organizations to do so. Organizations currently are given big advantages over regular people when it comes to speech protection, for instance "safe harbor" from copyright infringement violations if they have a DMCA compliant take-down process. Why don't regular people have that? Then you can download whatever you want, share whatever you want, and when you get caught just delete that one specific file and carry on.
In the current situation, with the government allowing corporations to enforce rules against speech that the government itself would not be allowed to do, while at the same time protecting corporations from consequences of speech that regular individuals would be subject to, it's like the corporation is an extension of the government. The corporation essentially has sovereign immunity. To me that makes it either a 1st amendment issue (the corporation as an extension of government has to obey the same rules as government) or a 14th amendment issue (the corporation shouldn't be an extension of government, it should obey the same rules as we do). It's not fair to have this hybrid where it doesn't follow the rules for government NOR does it follow the rules for individual.
I don't think you can frame the argument in terms of need vs convenience or degree of difficulty because there are going to be plenty of cases where moving platforms (or building your own) actually is more difficult than physically moving.
Is it harder for an American to move to Canada than it is for a Patreon user to get all of their contributors to switch to some alternate payment coordinator that nobody has ever heard of? How about if 90% of your income came through Patreon?
Blasphemey laws where abolished in 2008 stop spreading nonsense.
the purpose is to create a new caste system to replace the old ones that modern life are chipping away at.
In the US we've been using racism, but now that it's waning we're moving to SJWism and political divides. India still has it's caste system. Europe is divided along religion and nationality. Even Japan had a caste system (based on, I shit you not, the job you had, with "unclean" jobs being at the bottom caste).
The goal is always the same: break the working class into manageable chunks that right among themselves so the ruling class can take all the power and money. The part that irritates me is that after hundreds of years of modern history nobody seems to pick up on this trick.
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Appeals to moral relativism isn't going to stop any patriotic American from killing nazis.
So you're saying you won't be hiring them. Yup. Everyone else needs to comply. How typical.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
I guess I wasn't clear, it would be on a case by case basis and have to consider the law.
Understand it may be illegal to discriminate on criminal history here if the person has been granted a pardon or a record suspension ordered. It's also not that hard to get a pardon, keep your nose clean for some years and pay a fee basically. Further it may be grounds for a discrimination case if the conviction is unrelated to the work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
An actual article with some proper research:
https://www.wired.co.uk/articl...
If you read to the bottom of the current article, and cross-reference with other articles, you can see the point is that some people who have defaulted on their taxes or other debts can be barred by a court-order from buying first-class train tickets or booking flights. They're still able to travel economy-class. This is a power wielded by lower-level local courts and doesn't actually have much if any actual connection with the *social* credit system or score whatsoever. TL;DR: the level of reporting on this matter is below terrible, creating a massive confusion about what is and isn't even the social-credit system. There is no social-credit scoring used in these current decision *whatsoever*, merely that you've been declared in default of your existing financial obligations by a court.
Speak up every time some puff piece mentions China.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
That level of ingraining would not just be in the culture. Survival would favor those who are more passive and genetic selection would occur. Epigenetics would play a part too when traumas endured by parents are strong enough to turn on survival mechanisms whose activation is passed on to their children.
Professional gaming China style.
I have a sneaky suspicion that explosives are even more highly regulated than guns over there.
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That level of ingraining would not just be in the culture. Survival would favor those who are more passive and genetic selection would occur. Epigenetics would play a part too when traumas endured by parents are strong enough to turn on survival mechanisms whose activation is passed on to their children.
I don't think that's how genetics work. Events that happen as an adult are not passed genetically through offspring.
a criminal record, and except for the most extreme cases (rape, child molestation, murder) it won't show up in background checks. Well, except for one other thing, which is defrauding banks. That shit follows you for life because you do not fuck with the ruling class. Still, for relatively minor infractions it won't follow you forever.
br> I don't see a lot of wide eyed mobs making no place in society if the person shows some self awareness and contrition. Neeson just went and told everyone that at one point in his life he went around looking for a black person to kill because a friend of his was victimized by a black person. The story went nowhere because he realized what he did was wrong and owned it. Where folks get shut down is if there's decades of bad behavior (usual sexual harassment), often recent and with a weak, token apologies.
I couldn't find the Chase account lock reference you made, can you provide links? I'd like context.
That said, we could we do with a bit more forgiveness in society. Folks like Bernie Sanders & Liz Warren are pushing legalizing drugs so that you're not put on what are effectively watch lists for a little pot, broader criminal justice reforms and above all federal jobs programs so that nobody, and I mean _nobody_ is shut out of the economy. Those are the kinds of practical steps we need. Basically, we need a society where, even if everybody hates your guts, you're guaranteed food, shelter, healthcare and education. That's where real freedom comes from.
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Not genetically, epigenetically. New stuff here. It is not the DNA itself being changed. Instead, regulatory molecules are being attached to the DNA.
We have discovered that our systems are capable of adapting to environmental stresses by sending a signal throughout the body that causes gene expression to be changed via mechanisms like DNA methylation and that those signals target sperm and eggs as well as the other body cells. We are finding that this is why things like PTSD are near impossible to reverse. The body has epigenetically forced defensive mechanisms into overdrive. People who then parent children after experience of this kind of trauma can then pass on the over-activation of those defenses. Several studies have shown this to be true and they have even identified some of the signals now and succeeded in blocking them in mice.
Once these changes in expression occur, it can take a few generations for them to be cleaned out of the offspring.
Using the word 'metrosexual' unironically in a sentence: negative 100 points.
Using the word 'unironically' in a sentence: negative 200 points.
Using self-effacing humor: negative 300 points.
Mocking social credit systems: priceless.
Using dead memes: death penalty.
Forget airplanes- with my social score I wouldn't be allowed to ride a taxi, a bus, or a train. I suspect China will still welcome me on Uber though.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
udachny is a sock puppet of roman_mir. the latter uses the former to try to convince more people that the foundational principles of his cult are righteous and sane. they both often post at -1 (and have their postings limited here on slashdot) because they have poor karma scores here as a result of repeated abusive behavior and their consistent religious proselytizing that is seldom on topic with the discussion thread. don't let him convince you that his doctrine would actually benefit you, or even result in him being less offensive.