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Decade-Long Study: Measles Vaccine Doesn't Cause Autism, Even in High-Risk Kids (reuters.com)
The measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine isn't associated with an increased risk of autism even among kids who are at high risk because they have a sibling with the disorder, a Danish study suggests. From a report: Concerns about a potential link between the MMR vaccine and autism have persisted for two decades, since a controversial and ultimately retracted 1998 paper claimed there was a direct connection. Even though subsequent studies haven't tied inoculation to autism, fear about the risk has weighed on parents so much in several communities across Europe and the U.S. that vaccination rates have been too low to prevent a spate of measles outbreaks.
In the current study, researchers examined data on 657,461 children. During this time, 6,517 kids were diagnosed with autism. Kids who got the MMR vaccine were seven percent less likely to develop autism than children who didn't get vaccinated, researchers report in the Annals of Internal Medicine. "Parents should not skip the vaccine out of fear for autism," said lead study author Dr. Anders Hviid of the Statens Serum Institut in Copenhagen, Denmark. "The dangers of not vaccinating includes a resurgence in measles which we are seeing signs of today in the form of outbreaks," Hviid said by email.
In the current study, researchers examined data on 657,461 children. During this time, 6,517 kids were diagnosed with autism. Kids who got the MMR vaccine were seven percent less likely to develop autism than children who didn't get vaccinated, researchers report in the Annals of Internal Medicine. "Parents should not skip the vaccine out of fear for autism," said lead study author Dr. Anders Hviid of the Statens Serum Institut in Copenhagen, Denmark. "The dangers of not vaccinating includes a resurgence in measles which we are seeing signs of today in the form of outbreaks," Hviid said by email.
The idiots will find a new reason to avoid vaccinations. If anything fails, the study will be dismissed as fake from the pharma industry.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Morons who don't vaccinate their kids should be dealt with by Child Protective Services.
Will this convince anyone? It seems anti-vaxxers have already decided to make up their mind independent of scientific studies.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Like parents who don't vaccinate do so because they are noticing signs of autism and sometimes they are right. Or something else entirely. In either case, you can't claim both that there is no link and that vaccine cuts down on autism. If authors really wanted to claim no link, they should have said that the difference is below statistical noise at their sample size.
No, they didn't want to draw those conclusions since there were confounding factors.
From TFA:
"Another drawback is the potential for some kids to have undiagnosed autism before getting the MMR vaccine, which could make the MMR vaccine appear linked to autism when it really isn’t connected, the study authors note. It’s also possible that the onset of autism symptoms might lead parents to skip the vaccine. "
They don't feel confident noting a correlation since the numbers are within the margin of error. What can safely be concluded is that there is no increase in autism in the vaccinated group.
As with every other bias this study won't convince most of the anti-vaxers because they've already formed a strong belief and they will only accept the "information" which furthers their irrational point of view which is lacking any reasoning and is not based on facts.
Dr. Jenny McCarthy was wrong? Who'd have thought...?
Have gnu, will travel.
Hopefully this nonsense can be laid to bed... I hate whenever I one of these crazies find out about my son's diagnosis and they start to blame vaccines etc...My favorite part is non vaccinated children had a slightly higher risk of autism
Reminder: Donald Trump is an anti-vaxxer.
https://www.independent.co.uk/...
The wife of Bill Shine, Trump's communications chief of staff, is also an anti-vaxxer.
https://www.usnews.com/news/po...
Rand Paul is an anti-vaxxer.
https://thehill.com/policy/hea...
You are welcome on my lawn.
When you think about it, anti-vaxxers are just performing really REALLY late term abortions.
Such studies are going to be needed to give the politicians and bureaucrats the cover they need. I don't think it's about convincing idiots not be idiots anymore, it's about setting sensible public policy that is going to necessarily intrude upon the civil liberties of parents who buy into the lies and stupidity of the antivaxxer movement. As with all things, any limitation on liberties requires substantial and demonstrable public good. This study goes some way towards providing policy makers with the ammunition they need.
I think we are rapidly approaching the point where vaccinations, if not outright forced, will give public health officials the power they need to restrict the ability of unvaccinated children to endanger others. It's the best we can probably do in a civil society, unless there is a major outbreak. If the latter happens, well, in the past we've had quarantine laws to prevent the spread of dangerous diseases. One hopes that more moderate but strictly enforced policies won't make that necessary.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Traditional, long time used vaccines have a proven track record. However, to suggest vaccines are 100% safe isn't honest. For as misguided as many anti-vaxxors are, they're not completely wrong. There are real, documented safety issues with some vaccines.
If vaccines are so safe, then why are vaccine manufactures NOT liable.
Because the government, while acknowledging that vaccines are not 100% safe, still mandates vaccinations with some exceptions. Because getting vaccines is mandatory and there are known but rare side effects it makes sense that government bears the liability, not the manufacturers, and has paid out well over 1 billion dollars in claims for injury due to vaccine (do you know what the highest payout rate is? Tetanus).
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
This has been studied many times in the last decade or two. Always with the same result....
What they are saying is there is no INCREASED risk of autism in kids who got the MMR vaccine and those who didn't. They are saying that correlation does not imply causation and in this case, MMR didn't cause autism. They are, however, acknowledging that the onset of autism happens to coincide with the giving of MMR vaccine. This is because autism is diagnosed at about the same time as it becomes apparent in the developmental delays about the same time as the vaccine is given. They are debunking the logic error used by the antivaxx dogma to push their mistake.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
I distrust most medicine and avoid most types of medicine for the most part due to known and unknown side effects, but I am more than good with vaccinations. Vaccinations are more natural than anything else in western medicine. They are just teaching your immune system to fight diseases... it is really the best option you have out there for staying healthy.
Incidentally, the original "study" (long since found to be scientific fraud) the anti-vaxxers like to use for their "arguments" did not claim that either. It claimed that a specific competing product had that flaw but their own did not. Hence there never actually was a study that claimed that in general measles vaccination cause autism.
But anti-vaxxers do not live in this reality. They cannot recognize a fact when it stares them in the face.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
They don't feel confident noting a correlation since the numbers are within the margin of error. What can safely be concluded is that there is no increase in autism in the vaccinated group.
No, it can't. They did notice a correlation, and didn't bother to correct for it, because it skewed the data in the way they wanted. Suppose that vaccines did cause autism, at a small but non-negligible rate, but people who noticed early signs of autism in their children (or those in risk groups, like with autistic siblings) decided to skip vaccines in an effort to not make their children worse off. That way you'd get bigger rates of autism in the non-vaccinated group, DESPITE the fact that we assume in this scenario that vaccines DO cause autism. This is like a textbook definition of study bias.
That's why any serious medical trial is RANDOMIZED - to make sure people don't self-select themselves into the vaccinated/non-vaccinated groups based on the disease you're testing for. It's kind of similar to saying that chemotherapy causes cancer - because people on chems tend to die from cancer This study on the other hand has holes big enough to drive a truck through. But yes, by all means, push this crappy study on anti-vaxxers, and then act all outraged when they call out the lie and loose their faith in the truthfulness of the medical community. You know, a I'm provaxxer, but seeing stuff like this I find it harder and harder to blame antivaxxers for believing what they believe.
We should definitely just walk around
The problem is a lot of people are looking for 100% safe. Nothing is 100% safe, it never will be.
The direction towards progress is choosing the options that are safer then the options.
So the problems you get with a Vaccine is in general much less then the problems you have without it. Sometime when I get my Work Mandated Flu shot, I feel a little ill for a week. But that is still better then actually getting the Flu, and spreading it to people who may not be able to get the Flu shot (Immune system problems).
Vaccines work by telling your body there is a dangerous infection in your body. So your body creates Antibodies to fight it. This puts extra stress on your body, but if you are of relatively good health you can deal with it. And that stress will do less harm then the stress of an actual infection.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
we've got talented people researching nonsense like this where the answer is already well known because we figured that out in the clinical trials before the vaccine went into use.
My mom, God rest her, was an anti-vaxxer and a nurse. A well trained Research Nurse for Pete's sake. This isn't anything new.
I'd like to figure out why the anti-vaxxer crowd believes this crap. Not the ones selling books and movies, those guys are in it for the money. I mean the rank and file. They're not just stupid. Heck, a lot of them have college degrees. If anything that's what we need to research, how do you get so many people to believe something so wrong?
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Why would the government want kids to be autistic?
Oh stop with the logical arguments here... They will fall on deaf ears.. Trust me...
IF there was *any* truth to this vaccines cause autism idea, you can bet people like the ones over at "Autism Speaks" would be up in arms to get vaccines stopped. IN FACT they are not, exactly the opposite. Autism Speaks clearly says there is no link and recommend you vaccinate your children. They have no dog in the hunt with big pharma or the FDA and are a premier authority on the causes and treatments of autism.
But hey, confirmation bias will clearly be used to dismiss any and all facts contrary to the closely held theories here..
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
No-one claims they're 100% safe. Not the government, not medics, and not the manufacturers. They specifically warn of a bunch of risks, on package inserts that look like this: https://www.fda.gov/downloads/...
And they're given a liability carve-out because they're at risk of strategic lawsuits designed to shut them down, orchestrated by a coalition of the dumb and the fuckers.
Measles can kill you. The mortality under very best conditions is 1 out of a thousand. Complications may include pneumonia, ear infections, bronchitis (either viral bronchitis or secondary bacterial bronchitis), and brain inflammation.[64] Brain inflammation from measles has a mortality rate of 15%. While there is no specific treatment for brain inflammation from measles, antibiotics are required for bacterial pneumonia, sinusitis, and bronchitis that can follow measles.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
"The right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."
I'm still on the fence about calling CPS on people who don't vaccinate their kids. But not letting the kids into school, hell, yes. Your right to not vaccinate definitely doesn't include your right to propagate measels into public schools.
Indeed. The finding of no positive correlation has larger significance because the numbers are skewed to imply the negative correlation. But since the other finding is within the margin of error, they just comment on possible explanation, but do not state them as results. This is an exceptionally important difference, even if it seems to fly right over many people's heads.
So:
1. Vaccination does cause autism: Strong, reliable negative finding. This does not happen.
2. Non-vaccination does cause autism: Weak indication, within margin of error, may have other explanation and the scientist offer a few potential ones
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
The carve out is because vaccines are necessary for the public health, expensive to research, low margin, and you get to sell them to your customers a handful of times at most. Basic vaccine research is already mostly financed by the government since otherwise pharma is financially better off researching new kinds of Viagra or opioids instead of vaccines.
Fighting epidemics is not totalitarianism. It is species survival. It justifies killing people if nothing else is available to stem the tide. If some people think they can endanger society as a whole, force has to be applied to stop their behavior. This is not nice, but necessary. If you do not get that, you have no place in society.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
However, to suggest vaccines are 100% safe isn't honest
Good thing no one is trying to do that. In fact, governments require publishing the actual "adverse reaction" rate for each vaccine.
It's almost like you aren't being 100% honest in your argument.....
It's not totally clear-cut at all.
Actually, it is totally clear-cut.
Risk of dying from measles: 1 in 1000. Risk of severe adverse reaction to the MMR vaccine: about 1 in 2,000,000 (varies slightly depending on which study). Risk of dying to the MMR vaccine: well, the CDC site lists 2 cases. Total. One had advanced HIV when he got the vaccine.
If you consider 1 in 1000 vs 2 in hundreds of millions to be "not totally clear-cut", you need to have your ability to make any decisions taken away.
Oh fuck off. We know the problem here is those with compromised immune systems, or very young children who cannot yet be vaccinated. Jesus Christ, are you retarded or just an ignoramus?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
And here I was thinking all we needed to do was use your hosts file in our genome.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Naturally, they SELL you on the best situation possible while saying "think of the children."
YOU do not get sick if you are vaccinated. Mandatory customers with 100% lawsuit protection is the DREAM situation for them. Naturally, government negotiated free drugs are not their ideal (but still very profitable.)
Industry is promoting this stuff. WAKE UP!
Odds are more likely a phone driver kills the kid. or drunk driver. Are you pushing for laws disabling smart phone use in a moving car? Why not? "think of the children"
You don't really give a fuck. This tribal propaganda has you hating on "THEM" sub-humans. If you do hate them, then let them suffer naturally of their own making.
Once you hand over your freedom, then watch them stick you with questionable products you can't opt-out from and have to endure being one of "THOSE PEOPLE" just for reasonable objections.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
omfglearntoplay: Doctor, I have this lump, it's growing larger.
Doctor: Hmmm...that's looks serious, we need a biopsy (takes sample)
Weeks later:
omfglearntoplay: Well Doctor?
Doctor: I'm afraid I have bad news. You have ear lobe cancer.
omfglearntoplay: Well, cut off then.
Doctor: Won't help, it's already metastasized, you are going do die unless you undergo chemo-therapy.
omfglearntoplay: No, I do not believe modern medicines.
Doctor: Ummm...could you please tell me your next of kin (address, tele. ph., etc), I'd like to know where I should send the bills should you croak before you pay them.
Nobody pretends there are no side effects from vaccines. Vaccination is a matter of chances. How likely is it to catch a disease? How likely are lasting effects? And how likely are lasting effects from the vaccine?
And there are VERY few cases of vaccines that are offered to the public AT ALL where that chance balance doesn't tip heavily towards "you're a fucking moron if you refuse vaccination".
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Studies like these, no matter how definitive, no longer matter in the US. Decades is slashing taxes, gutting education, economic stratification, demise of stable middle class, and oligarchical fed misinformation has eviscerated critical thinking skills for the general population.
Exacerbated by the rise of the web giving any dolt the power to publish any crazy unsubstantiated thought, armchair WebMD physicians, and instant gratification un-social media the US has plunged into ignorant tribalism. The masses only believe utterances from another member of their self selected tribe, no matter how ludicrous - Fox, MSNBC, or Flat Earth Society for that matter, what ever "tribe" you've associated yourself with, anything said contrary to the mantra of the tribe is not only to be disbelieved, but the messenger attacked and discredited at any cost. It's identical to religious faith; the definition of which is unfettered belief no matter the preponderance of evidence to the contrary. A sad period of post intellectualism.
Testosterone causes more damage to society than measles. Should we institute mandatory castration to make public safer, or is there something to be said for personal autonomy?
No I think if you want to be safe you have responsibility to protect your self. Get vaccinated your self if you are worried. If you have some immune deficiency than you need to isolate your self.
Its like people with incurable communicable diseases like HIV or even say herpes. Should we lock people who are infected away, no. Should it be criminal to intentionally spread them yes.
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"...since a controversial and ultimately retracted 1998 paper..."
Fraudulent. The word you want is Fraudulent.
That's like suggesting that Creationist institutes should have a voice in evolutionary biology. It's rubbish. Science isn't an act of diplomacy, and most certainly medical science is not. There are no doubts in the research world about the efficacy and safety of vaccines. The risks are known and are managed. Allowing antivaxxer scam artists an even bigger pretense of being informed interlocutors will do more harm than good.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Remember the Disney Measles outbreak? Yep, vaccine strain that caused the outbreak, not wild strain
See, this is the problem with the anti-vaccine information. You've got it exactly backwards. Measles vaccines (in the US) are for the 'A' type measles strain while the Disney outbreak was a 'B' type strain. And the vaccines are made from actual measles viruses one might catch, not some artificial strain as your "vs wild strain" seems to imply.
The mere stupidity, were do I even start? Well, I guess you are just a lost cause. You are not the only one, and if a society gets enough of the likes of you, it dies.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Testosterone is not infectious. Seriously. Could your argument be any dumber?
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
But as a SCIENTIST I was very fucking cautious from then on and he got no further vaccines containing thimerasol regardless of what happened to other peoples kids.
As a SCIENTIST, you would have found that thiomersal was removed from childhood vaccines in 2000. Also as a SCIENTIST, you would have noticed that there was no decrease in the rate of autism diagnoses after 2000.
Every toddler has symptoms of autism. That's what the "terrible twos" is about. What makes it diagnosed as autism is when they keep those symptoms when they are older. Which means autism can only be diagnosed as they get older. Which corresponds to the age at which they get a series of vaccines, including MMR.
Testosterone causes more damage to society than measles.
Assumes facts not in evidence, but even if true, it's necessary for the propagation of the species, so we'll live with it.
Try your force and see the counter force.
You will lose. You will die, if need be. We ARE going to win this.
The nightmare existence humanity suffered through for the thousand years prior to vaccination will NOT be allowed to return, and if you have to die to prevent it, I will happily pull the trigger myself. No. We are not going back to the fucking Dark Ages because of your stupid ass. The infant mortality rate was 300 in every 1000 births in Medieval Europe. That's an appalling number, and the vast majority of those deaths were from diseases that are now preventable. We are going to prevent them, if we have to ride over your corpse to do it.
Sit down and shut up you Medieval fucking peasant.
or treatments that just keep a condition under control.
That's because the early symptoms of autism present around the same time as scheduled vaccines.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Like parents who don't vaccinate do so because they are noticing signs of autism and sometimes they are right. Or something else entirely. In either case, you can't claim both that there is no link and that vaccine cuts down on autism. If authors really wanted to claim no link, they should have said that the difference is below statistical noise at their sample size.
Correct. And it's a meta study, of course.
If you want to claim no link you need to take a random sample of n kids, give half vaccines and half placebos, then compare autism rates while controlling for other factors (like family history of autism).
That is repeatable. That is falsifiable. That is science. That will not happen.
"The right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."
Wrong. If someone has a right to swing their fist, them hitting your nose won't remove that right.
They will simply be held responsible for the individual incident if hitting your nose was deemed to be a criminal act or if they are deemed culpable for damages.
They will still be able to swing their fist.
You're thinking of a privilege, not a right.
Don't know about the strains, but just ordinary statistics seems to explain what happened at Disney: https://www.wired.com/2015/01/...
Pretty much means the unvaccinated caused most of it.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Are you sure? So sure that you don't even link to a single "study"...
Meantime in the real world:
However, investigators from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention now say there is new-found evidence that links the growing number of incidences in the U.S. to a sizable measles outbreak that recently occurred in the Philippines. The CDC reports that specimens from 30 California patients are a direct genetic match to the strain of the virus in the Philippines. Both are classified as measles genotype B3.
What's up with this MMR vaccine? The forced-vax nazis are pushing it _really_ hard. Which makes me wonder why.
Measles and mumps are minor annoyance illnesses. So it's fair to call this an elective or recreational vaccine. Its iatrogenic risk certainly outweighs the tiny expected benefit. Yet, I repeat, we see the forced-vax nazis pushing it really hard in the media.
Let's assume the authors of this study, dismissing the risk of autism, are honest and courageous scientists. Not the usual academic brown nosers saying what they think their peers want/demand to hear. Any not just yet more paid shills for Big Pharma.
So, again, why are nazis pushing this recreational vaccine so hard? Maybe, just maybe, it has other nasty side effects. Perhaps it renders people infertile. Or fucks with their hormones. Or causes non-autism brain problems. Shit, that's it: it probably damages one's brain in such a way that one becomes a nazi!
See, this is what happens when a small, vocal, and really very well financed minority starts agitating for forced medical procedures on non-consenting patients. People start to speculate wildly. And because the malice of that well-financed nazi minority is obvious from both their words and the public policy they propose, even the wildest speculation cannot fully be dismissed.
The number of people opposed to vaccination for genuinely dangerous diseases like polio is very close to zero. There are very very few actual "anti-vaxxers" in the world. But there are a whole fuck ton of people who think recreational vaccination is risky and stupid.
Your right to not vaccinate definitely doesn't include your right to propagate measels into public schools.
Cool, then give them vouchers for whatever amount a public school will spend on their kids to take them to a school of their choice.
In other news, first measles infection in the Netherlands in 5 years. A properly inoculated population will be able to cope with this, but the last epidemic in 2013 was allowed to spread because the more religious part of the country has a tendecy not to inoculate.
So they can spread measles in the "school of their choice?" No thanks. No school of any kind until you vaccinate.
Ummm... that thing about Disney measles. Not sure who's telling you what, but you might want to check the CDC's report on it. Unless (of course) you think they're in in "the conspiracy" too.
Oh arse
So they did genotyping on the measles cases from Disneyland. There's a pretty detailed report here if you care to spend 2 seconds doing a Google search. There were 31 people who had recently been vaccinated who showed up with febrile rashes which were caused by the vaccine for measles, but that's actually a known side effect of the vaccine (in ~5% of cases) and wouldn't have been full blown measles in any case. The actual outbreak strain was genotype B3 which account for 73 cases that were tested, and those folks actually did get measles.
So...maybe spend a few seconds researching before spewing garbage on a discussion board?