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IBM Promises Even More Linux Support
Jacek Fedorynski writes "This CNN article titled "IBM putting a Big Blue stamp on Linux" confirms that IBM will support Linux in both the hardware and software areas. " Sort of position piece from IBM - recognizing the importance of open standards, and staking much of their future with Linux.
I wonder if they'll put Linux-compatible modems in Thinkpads now? :) Is my 1st post really 1st?
I suppose this gives Linux even more credibility, but I think its primary benefit is that IBM is "actively promoting Linux as a viable, less-expensive alternative to Windows NT. " When folks see Linux as a pre-install option on IBM servers, Linux will move out of the many-awards-hot-news-topic arena into the many-sales-hot-product arena.
;-)
I really don't think we are there yet, but this is a good sign...
Of course, IBM is just finally recognizing that ANY *nix is better than forcing customers to use AIX
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars --Oscar Wilde
Grrr. my nick is "Forward the Light Brigade"...
.......makes me happy. If I could just get this damn modem to work properly with Linux I would believe that they could too. It's good to see that the majors are following through and realizing the linux-y goodness. If the hardware is developed with Linux un mind they've got me as a customer.
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
Seriously, though, if Jikes and IBM's jdk for Linux are good indicators, their support for Linux should ensure it a long and robust future.
Maybe IBM'll finally realease the MWave specs instead of just saying "MWave is too complicated for you Linux people to grok", which is how they responded to the Linux MWave petition.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
I have started using Linux consistenly for the past year or so and I love it. Just like everyone else, I get so excited to hear about a large company throwing money and respect at Linux, but something always bothers me... In the back of my mind I can't help but wonder... Will Open Source and the love of freeware stand up against all those big dollars? More and more I am starting to see shareware apps and trial versions of Linux software popping up everywhere. I used to tell my friends that everything for Linux was free... not any more. What about in a year or two? Will companies like IBM who are "hedging their bets with Linux" start demanding money for their risks? I just love free Linux apps so much that I get nervous when I see too much $$$ around Linux. Just my 2 cents.
Need ecommerce that doesn't suck? FoxyCart is for you.
The last time IBM threw it's sales force behind a new technology, it brought on the PC revolution of the 80s. Now, refocused (and restricted from antitrust practices), IBM is taking on an open source deved OS and will make a strong push for a good position in the networking revolution of the 21st century.
I for one welcome IBM to the fold, and hope they eventually give back to open dev comunity that has given so much.
Welcome to the next century, IBM (IttyBittyMachines)
Does anyone have any more information on IBM's new Unix OS? Does Monterey use ELF binaries? Does this also mean that Monterey binaries will run on Linux?
Your Brain + EEG + LEGO Robots = Brainstorms
I think if IBM wants to promote that their boxes are linux compatible they should start making drivers for mwave or release source on them. I have been working on Thinkpads for over 3 years going on 4 and those pesky mwave modems are direct from satan. :) I like the thinkpads though I think they are a bit over priced IMHO . I think it is a good move on IBM's part to start getting an interest in linux.
"I have gone to look for myself, If I return before I get back keep me here"
sigh.
"applications that work on Monterey ... will also run on Linux boxes." Emph mine.
--
Ben Kosse
Remember Ed Curry!
The article suggests that IBM doesn't use a particular distribution of Linux (while Dell sticks entirely with RedHat). How can you provide consistent tech support to your customers if their operating systems change everytime a new distro is out? What does IBM ship to customers who just say 'Linux'?
Seems like IBM will have to decide on one or two packages..
Poor OS/2. It beat MS to market, it had better technology than MS products, but alas, somehow IBM botched it.
I know it's not dead yet... I still read IBM's newsletters.
When IBM announced "support" of the 600E, I saw nothing more than a web page with some directions and links. The directions were almost exactly the same as those found elsewhere.
See you, space cowboy...
Are you joking or simply working for IBM ? I cannot stop laughing by reading your post, man you gotta open your eyes ! What has IBM done for the computer industry except making those bulky boxes nobody want to use. Remember PS/2, OS/2, AIX ? Come on, Microsoft may make some buggysoftware, but it's nothing compared to the crap IBM is trying to sell !
"The reasons for the growth are many, users say. Linux is dependable and easy to install"
I love it when a plan comes together...
Sort of position piece from IBM - recognizing the importance of open standards, and staking much of their future with Linux. You must be thinking of a different IBM than I am. OK, so Gerstner was saying some stuff about open standards the other day, but "staking much of their future with Linux."? Come on, 300 people? Be serious, this company sells a lot of stuff that will never have anything to do with the success or failure of Linux. And someone should compare the amount IBM is throwing at Linux and how much they are throwing at that whole Monterey thing.
You must be talking about the apps IBM released for AdCycle.
Come on, they aren't even doing anything for the chumps who bought Thinkpads for Linux. Hell will freeze over before those modems work under Linux.
This is vaporware. You'd be better off going down to your local nonprofit, set up a 486 firewall for them, give them internet and email with IPMasq, and show them how to save big bucks with Linux.
Gawwwwwwd, do you know how many charities have done the MS Office 2000 thing and wrecked their budgets? Time to get into the trenches, h4ck3r d0000d5.
Why are you wasting everybody's time with IBM rubbish?
There is plenty of "winning" IBM technology here.. :-)
cpeterso
Alright I love any news that the Big Boys are getting behind Linux but let's deal with everyday life here. I work for a major catalog reseller of computers -Compaq,IBM,Toshiba,HP,etc.Many of which have pledged their support,in one fashion or another,for Linux.We sell many major servers and configurations.I have *yet* to see Linux offered on a single one as an option.It's NT or Netware.I have yet to see any vendor (we get all of them peddling the latest and greatest..)even mention Linux in their pitch.I am one of the few who jump on them about it and it's the same response "oh yeah you can get that too" or "uh? Linux?". Lip service is all well and good but I want to see real live flip the switch hardware! Hell I want to see Linux running on PC's in CompUSA!
Tired of being another body in the flock? Linux ! We are not sheep anymore.
no way.
sure, IBM labs will do some cool stuff, as they did and still do with OS/2.
bottom line is they will not piss off MS when the chips begin to fall (a big chip being the DOJ loss/MS win).
maybe I've just seen IBM burn turn the knife one too many times, but don't expect anything truly useful to be free from IBM.
300 linux people? when they put 2500 and begin advertising preloaded boxes and laptops as an *alternative* to Windows would be worth getting excited about.
this may appear to be flamebait, it's not intended that way, I just get a bit worked up when I see anyone thinking IBM has anything on their radar than the furthuring of large systems and servers running NT.
IBM is big, sometimes it's big toe gets gushy about something non-mainstream, just remember, the big toe of IBM may look big to use mortals, but it's still just a big toe. when the brain realizes the big toe is being independent, on will come the sock.
ibm and ms are still best buddies, if ibm goes too far, they will pull back when asked. look what they did to their own superior product (os2) when MS told them Win license discounts would vanish. they admitted this in court, trying to make it appear they had no choice but to capitulate. if DOJ loses to MS, do you think they will stand their ground?
I don't know that IBM is a "hardware" company. Last time I checked (a year or two ago). IBM still did more business in software than any other company. Granted, this was mostly in mainframe sales.
As indicated in the article. Their emphasis, now, is on service and consulting. Their Global Services division (consulting) is huge and growing fast. They see Linux as a way of selling billable hours. This can actually fit in very will with an open source model of software.
The Math Maestro Tutoring Services in Seattle
FINALLY! big companies are starting to realize that linux has flat out won the UNIX war. No other UNIX os can compete with the technical merits of linux.
when people start realizing how patheticaly far behind solaris, irix, hp-ux and the other dead giants of yesterday are in comparison to RedHat then the ball will really start rolling.
however, we really dont want the big companies like ibm/sgi etc getting involved with the code, lest they ruin it. linus and alan cox have more talent in their toes than the entire software engineering teams of sgi/sun/ibm combined!
support yes! keep the linux revolution rolling!
IBM was (and is) a big supporter of Java.
So much for the Midas touch. Not saying that IBM supporting Linux isn't a good thing, but I think it's too early for the champaign.
-- Slashdot sucks.
I attended the Unigraphics User Group Conference in Detroit (well, actually Dearborn) recently, (UG is high-end CAD/CAM/CAE package originally developed by EDS and used extensively in mechanical design by companies like Boeing, Pratt & Whitney, and General Motors) and Sun Microsystems was there. (And yes, they were handing out StarOffice CDs :)
:_
The Sun rep I talked to basically said the same thing Quandt said about Linux needing to be more scalable, but he was certain with the way development is going that it won't be long.
He also mentioned that Sun would be increasing its support for Linux in a big way but he couldn't say more than that because he was apparently under some sort of NDA.
Corporate support is increasing, and I know more than a few GM people were greatly interested in Linux, and StarOffice in particular. I've been asked to install StarOffice on our Sun boxes...(despite the ban on Open Source software at GM...apparently since its supported by Sun it MUST be good.
My journal has hot
I could easily see IBM coming out with its own distro in the near future. Think about it. Most of their code is for UNIX boxes anyway so it wouldn't be that hard to port.
All they have to do is sell an IBM custom distro, and add some of their own comercial applications software on top of it to make some extra cash.
This is their chance to pick up where they left off when Windows took over the business market. Linux is their chance to dominate the PC market again, and they are about the only company that has the manpower to make a good profit off making comercial linux applications.
IBM wants linux because it is going to give them back their market share. If you can't beat microsoft, quit and play a game that is a whole lot better.
bash-2.04$
bash-2.04$yes "Don't you hate dialup connections?"| write USERNAME
I don't mean this as flamebait, but I think everybody is misreading the CNN article.
The article does not say that IBM is endorsing Linux, or embracing Linux, or even suggesting Linux. What the article does say is that some analyst from Giga thinks that IBM is going to promote Linux.
Now--how credible is the analyst? He suggests that IBM is going to be OS-neutral in selling Linux vs. AIX, OS/400, or OS/390. He states that IBM will be superior to Dell because they'll support all "the major flavors."
Right.
IBM is going to offer Linux on an equal footing with OS/390 and OS/400? Whoever believes that hasn't ordered an upgrade of OS/400--the money IBM charges is unbelievable. "Want to update your disk drives? Sorry--the update only comes with an update to the OS. And that's a mere thousand bucks." IBM may pay lip service to Linux (their "support" may only amount to offering to preload it)--but they make a bunch of money off of operating system sales, and they're not going to just write that revenue off.
A 300-person IBM group is little more than a market study. When IBM decided to launch the Aptiva PCs (trying to compete with Dell) they had more than 1200 people--and Aptiva lasted less than 2 years.
If IBM were to truly back Linux, that would certainly be newsworthy. But this article is simply regurgitating a not-very-up-to-speed analyst's opinion, and I don't think his assertions pass the smell test.
The term 'FUD' originated at IBM.
Don't forget Micros~1 Bob(tm)..the revelutionary user interface! (gasp-gag)
(cmon' now..who else besides me remembers this MS Bob thing????)
And that wonderfull little paper-clip OOOooooo that's NOT cutting edge, baby !
Fast is, IBM has great labs. They are one of the only "new technology" companys around. Wasn't it just last week they set a new record *again* for drive density?
Growing up in the birth place of IBM (Endicott NY), and having both parents work (and one still works) for IBM (My father was even a manager) and then (after college) working for IBM (Federal Systems which was bought by Loral, and then by Lockheed Martin). I have had the opportunity to watch the life of IBM from a very close perspective.
Back in the 80's IBM was the one on top (everyone knows this). But they became blind. In the early 80's my father came home complaining that IBM is about to go down. He said that the top managers were ignoring advice from outsiders with the attitude that "We're IBM, and we know more than you".
In the early 90's the s**t hit the fan, and the layoffs started. My town almost became a ghost town. After selling us (Federal Systems) off, we were able to look elsewhere for products. One of my co-workers, whose been with IBM for a while, was shocked to see what was out there. He stated to me "We have just been patting each other on the back because we are IBM we never saw what was going on".
Well, IBM woke up. Now being leveled by MS, it has learned a lesson, and will not do the same again. IBM is constantly watching what is going on, and is now trying to give what the customer wants. Yes, there is major resentment towards Microsoft, and a hint of personal disgust towards Mr. Gates himself, but the attitude is different. I never cared for IBM (even when I went to work for them!) but now I see things are different. They use to cater to the employees, and now its trying to stay ahead by catering to customers (and stock holders)
I don't see IBM as a threat to Linux. The other posts are correct, they are more focusing on hardware. Yes they supply a lot of support, and software, but they want the IBM logo on you machines. If Linux can help them, that's what they will support. I cant see IBM trying to bring down Linux, but I can see them dropping it if it will no longer help them.
Just my $0.02
Steven Rostedt
Steven Rostedt
-- Nevermind
Nothin here.
--
Ben Kosse
Remember Ed Curry!
Reading the article and having long done business with IBM, i'll tale it with a grain of salt. Yes in the near term its a good thing for Linux, but untill i hear Louis Gerstner in a major address say the magic words....that Linux is a strategic product, Linux will always be a monentary product IBM uses to establish or rather re-establish its product line. We have been there with many IBM products...OS2, Java, networking cards, Comm Devices. All products fall by the wayside or are abandonned or sold off; unless they are of strategic importance to IBM. IBM is there to make $$ and dont forget it. At this point in time it suits IBM to support Linux for whatever reasons be they giving MS a slap, satisfy a client demand, but rember IBM is there for its own products and unless a cash stream is established support can evaporate... not openly but in typical IBM fashion. So for the moment cheer and enjoy that Big VBlue is supporting Linux, but lets revist this in a year or 2 years time. BTW i still support OS2 for various financial Institutions, and there is support from IBM for Large commercial customers, but try getting a new device driver from IBM. Good Luck. ..
They see linux as an opportunity to offer a competitor to NT with almost no investment of their own required, and with a very low cost in total.
"Support" doesn't mean putting a sticker on a laptop that says "works with linux" - any idiot can check the hardware compatibility list - support means porting all that vast software they sell over to linux. That doesn't mean just DB2 and VisualAge, but a whole slew of products, and then offering real tech support for those products on linux.
The linux community needs to be less naive. Right now they are the poster child of the "anyone but Microsoft" camp, but I've seen very little practical investment in linux that really affects end users in a substantial way.
If you want to see what IBM is really staking the future of their company on, check out their E-Commerce effort.
IBM? Sure, they want the hype, but they also are afraid of being left behind. If Linux is a commercial success, the established companies (Redhat, Caldera, SuSe, etc.) are going to be rolling in profits. The intelligent suits in IBM want to catch the wave; to marketing, perception is reality, so it's hard for us to tell for sure whether IBM is serious.
Microsoft, on the other hand, doesn't even want the public to know that they consider Linux to be a serious competitor, so they dismiss it as a toy and FUD it heavily in the hope that they can defeat it. This isn't going to happen, because if ever you could say that Microsoft is out of its league, this is the time.
In terms of revenue, Microsoft is tiny compared to IBM. Microsoft's power lies in its dominance. When that power is removed (at some point in the not-too-distant future), Microsoft will be forced to stop growing and to focus, becoming more like IBM or Sun is today. There will be no single company to succeed Microsoft in dominating the industry. Simply put, the success of Linux and other Free Software and Open Source Software will make it very difficult for a single company to dominate even one field, never mind several dozen (i.e. Microsoft). So long as we remain vigilant, we will never have another IBM or Microsoft.
Sorry, I'm rambling, so I'll stop.
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
Had to go there for a few days. Desolate and depressing just like many other post-industrial New York towns. 3 Days and not one Volkswagen did I see...
Blar.
This is not the same IBM that we all grew up with. You know the lumbering giant stuck in the mud. I think we all owe MS a big thanks for knocking IBm on its ass. I believe that IBM even by acknowledging Linux exists does more for its legitimacy than all the FUD being heaved at it by MS. According to an IBM guy I talked to the company is still really steamed about OS/2. They and everyone else knew that OS/2 was better, like BetaMax, but MS hamstrung them with licenses. IBM sees this a simple way to get some back. Rather than fight with MS, IBM fighres they will just take their balls and play with someone else. This really gets IBM out of some really nasty agreements and has several beneficial effects. The first is that IBM no longer has to pay royalties to MS and they can lower prices to compete in the market. Second it gives IBM a great deal of credibility in emerging technologies. This leaves MS with the unhappy position of having to buy their way in. Since IBM is mostly a hardware company, they do not have any problems with changing to support new software, unlike MS whose sole claim to fame is Windows. IBM is correct to not endorse one distro. To do so would lock them into the same agreements that they had with MS. Not gonna do it, would not be prudent at this time.
You can do some really neat stuff with their Journaling File System. /usr geting too small? No problemo, just add another drive, bump of the number of Physical/Logical Partitions, and voila!
I think AIX 4.3.2 is 64-bit native too for that new RISC chip...
Along with the big words regarding Linux support, how about some real action? Like opening up the specs of some of their hardware so people can write Linux drivers--or at least write the drivers themselves. I have a bunch of their Wireless LAN Entry cards which work well enough under Windows (yes, even 98), but are no go under Linux. They were discontinued something like 2 years ago, but they still won't release the specs. And that's just one example, there are many more.
This is a good news since I'm interested to run their net.commerce on Linux. But this will be a conflict of interest with their OS400, won't it? I'm also still worried about Linux security measures.
Quoted from the article:
...
"They will simply offer it to customers and let
the customers decide if it will be Linux, NT or Novell."
This seems to me similar to the operating procedure used by the big blue sales force back in the early '90's. They wouldn't push AIX over other platforms, they'd let the customer decide. By time they figured out the customer wasn't going to decide on MVS or OS/400 or OS/2, Sun or HP had snuck into the customer's site with a Unix box. Didn't see DEC Ultrix much. I guess too many Digital salespeople were waiting for customers to decide between it and VMS
Maybe a bit of history will repeat again?
-M
"...originally developed by EDS..."
The way I remember it, Unigraphics was developed by McDonnell Douglas, and the division was later sold to EDS.
Aerospace companies don't like to buy tools from their competitors, so the sale made sense.
Disclosure: Once upon a time, long, long ago, my paychecks said "McDonnell Douglas"...
Too bad this damned thing doesn't work under Linux, using Redhat 6.0 or 6.1. Bah. It's made by Xircom. Anyone have any ideas on this?
IBM's still reviewing their business plan for providing Linux support. They requested that a number of faculty and students in the Electrical and Computer Engineering Department here at Northwestern University review their business plan. They should be sending us their plan summary (a document reportedly about 25 pages long) in two weeks. I'm really excited to see what they have to offer.
IBM recognises that linux is a defacto standard in emerging markets. Witness the mexican school system's choice of linux as their OS of choice.
Point 1:
It's *nix. Any market built on it *guarantees* computer literate user base, and student bodies; unlike here, (US) where we're sliding backwards, thanks to M$.
Point 2:
It's free! Perfect for economies who to wish to later integrate into the larger global market. No licensing issues.
Point 3:
Eager and enthusiastic user community! We make mac advocates look like pussies.
Point 4:
Vendor loyalty! We've shown ourselves as the most competent bunch of idiots ever to support an OS. We respect those that at least tolerate us. We support *them*.
Point 5:
IBM has a rich hacker history, even if it's only within its own organisation. I've talked to a few of these guys. They're compsci thru and thru.
To survive, they must come alive as a youthful and vital organism again. Looks like somebody in corporate has acquired a clue or two about that...
Be charitable here. Those IBM'ers toiling away in the guts of the colossus would probably appreciate it a lot.
Brak: What's THAT?
Thundercleese: A light switch.. of TOTAL DEVASTATION!
Oh please, let your spirit move someone at IBM to start some kind of open project to give unix/linux an overhaul.
Herd the cats. Get RedHat, Sun, SGI, TurboLinux, SCO involved.
the multitude of configuration scripts are incompatible, there is no rock solid file system standard.
no "OLE" style corba infrastructure that is lean, mean, and intelligent.
MIME types are ugly.
Services have way too many fingers into the kernel.
and the kernel grows by leaps and bounds.
Someone, somewhere, get all these programmers to stop writing bzillions of incompatable guis and get them to fix the damn thing, down in the guts, where it hurts.
Reverse engineer one of their Mainframes, wipeout SQL, build somthing better than a copper based chip, do somthing. IBM handed the PC to MS partly because of anti-trust jitters MS got a little out of control and nailed everyone to the wall not just IBM. This IBM = 3stooges bit is just you filling in for Shemp.
..
More companies are trying it. Somebody will figure out how to make it work, money wise. It's just a matter of getting enough eyeballs, i.e. distribution.
+&x
IBM wants to sell bigger hardware like the above, but needs to get the client boxes to talk to the backend. MS is not co-operating by being less than open. You can't mix hardware, if the software is deficient. So if it gets behind linux + samba on 390, then they get a shot at pushing DB2 and notes, and a heap of other stuff, backup solutions, and security. If they dont support linux the MS kiddies will mislead management lots and lots and lots of boxes and MS licences, and IBM's market share will go for good. OpenEdition for MVS is open, and the TCP stack has/is being re-written (dont ask). Personally they need to make MS and Linux work with 390. One is doable, and one awaits DOJ to make it conform with industry. Someone here said IBM must have documentation for this and that. Sadly , like MS , that may not be entirely correct. Time to market is everything
I just downloaded a .pdf document (sg245850.pdf) from the IBM redbooks site, and I find it just amazing. For instance, there is a chapter that those PC Weeks admins should have read for their crack contest...
.pdf, so excuse me for citing some passages...
Oh, and I just noticed I *can* cut&paste from
1.3 Linux performance, stability and security
Linux is a UNIX-like operating system. It offers stability and performance, and
is a secure system. There is general consensus that Linux is one of the most
secure operating systems in the market because of its "virus-proof" design.
Linux is a UNIX clone that offers a multiuser environment. This environment
prevents an individual user from running a virus-prone program such as a
Trojan Horse program and infecting the entire system. In other words, a
multiuser environment offers multiple levels of security protection.
A general misconception about the lack of security in open source software is
that open source code invites crackers to penetrate the system more easily
than closed proprietary code. Nothing can be further from the truth.
Commercial vendors prefer to sow fear, uncertainty, and doubt among its end
users. They mislead end users to believe proprietary software is more secure
because crackers will not know how to work around their software. But
crackers, by definition, seek ways to circumvent loopholes and they
constantly do so with or without you and the commercial vendors knowing.
Security holes thrive only when they are hidden.
Open source software promotes security by allowing everyone to review the
source code where potential security holes may exist. Because the code is
open to everyone, security holes do not remain hidden for long. When a hole
is exposed, a fix is available sooner than most commercial software fixes.
Open source also promotes security by giving system administrators the
knowledge to take accountability for their own systems. Administrators need
to be accountable for their systems because security is an on-going concern,
not accomplished by simply applying service packs. Administrators can
analyze their system's security strengths and weaknesses by gaining more
insights into the source code the system runs. The system is only as secure
as the weakest link of a chain.
For Microsoft to read:
1.4.1 Summary
Linux is an alternative OS for deploying corporate computers, both as a
desktop and as a server.
The Linux community, people who develop and support Linux, has given the
computing industry a viable choice in operating systems. It does not have to
be an all-or-nothing proposition replacing your existing computing
environment. Most enterprises already have a heterogeneous environment
that Linux can play in.
...and so on. Nice document!
(don't have my passwd here, so AC)
or Solaris. Linux may be good, but it is a compromise (lite) edition. And this is a good thing too. But if you want to scale up, without bottlenecks, then you need a path (shit Nt for Alpha has the wobbles) - so where do you go?? Why IBM... Going upmarket means that you can plug in terrabyte raid boxes with smarts, that dovetail with the operating system, and not get distracted by HAL (suddenly your entire IO subsystem has a single point of failure).... Hmmm thinking about it, if MS ever released its source, IBM could fix it, and make HAL work with IBM dasd. Unlikely questions. Will the OS make use if the disk array has 2Gb of cache??? Hmm that would be interesting, but we all know what happened to the Alpha team..
IBM support...hmmmmm.... I'm sure TeamOS/2 is laughing their butts off.
Remember the Halloween Documents? In them Microsoft identified an agressive IBM adoption of Linux as their "nightmare scenario". They observed that IBM was ideally placed to make money from Linux in all the various ways -- by selling hardware, intregrated solutions, support, etc. They thought that IBM wouldn't do it, because of IBM's huge investment in other OSs. Looks like they may have been being wishful.