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Apple Re-Reverses G4 Order Cancellations
uncleFester writes "ZDNN appears to be reporting that Apple appears to be reversing its decision to reinstate all cancelled G4 orders, except for "a few orders" (probably machines in the production pipeline). From this latest switch, anyone wanting a G4 is going to have a hard time even knowing if they have one on order, let alone physically receiving the box."
I definately agree here. I'm a huge fan of Apple because their products are excellent, and the whole user community is a really nice thing. But defending this sort of decision just doesn't make sense. There's no excuse for screwing over customers like that. Yeah, motorola messed up, and it could hurt Apple financially some. But it seems to me that Apple can take a little financial hit right about now. In the personal computer industry, the average consumer can't understand the specs between two machines, which is why hype and pr are so effective. A big thing like this is far worse for apple than a lower profit per G4. As for the Mac-fanatics, yeah, some people are going to try to excuse apple, but don't take that too seriously. The wintel and oss groups have their own obsessed diehards that refuse to admit wrong doing as well.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
The only reason that Apple is able to get away with stunts like this is that they again have no competetion in the Mac market. Jobs knew what he was doing when he revoked the licenses to companies like PowerComputing...he can't play the way he wants to if people actually have a choice.
If a Mac clone vendor was still around, as soon as Apple announced this nonsense they would have offered comparable machines at the original price to anyone who had ordered a G4, and Apple would have no choice but to behave sensably. Instead, they're back to their old "Screw the customer!" selves...a pattern they started to set back with the ][ GS.
It seems that Apple is going to honor those orders placed at their store (The Apple Store) but will not honor the thousands of other orders placed at other stores (Mac Club, Mac Mall, etc.)
This got voted up to 5?
Seems to me like someone just got done watching Pirates of Silicon Valley or something.
Out of curiosity heroine, have you worked at Apple or NeXT or Pixar yourself?
I think a moderator could make a correction (say, -4)?
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
- Jeff
BY YOUR LOGIC, YOUR'RE MISSPELLING OF THE WORD "THEIR" IS DEFINITIVE PROOF THAT ALL MAC USERS ARE LAME. C'MON BUDDY GET A LIFE.
According to etrade's current information Apple stock has dropped to $70/share mostly because of this fiasco.
.sig ate it
my
Its really off to bash Apple over the events of late. After all it is Motorola who renegged on their end of the bargain AND released the flawed processors. Apple has no control over Motorola or IBM. The PowerPC line is not Apple exclusive.
Motorola is having so much trouble because they are concentrating their efforts elsewhere. This apple thing has kind of blown up in their face. After all, a year or so ago when they were having their IBM difficulties Apple didn't look too promising (or too productive). Right now Motorola is farming out G4 production/testing to AMD whom they helped on a 'lil chip earlier.
Apple just wants to push ahead, unfortunately the petal is to the metal. All machines have a maximum attainable speed (right?). Even corporate ones. But that said, the G4 was released before anyone thought it would be. (Even I thought it would be MacWorld SF in Jan.).
Apple has always been run by accountant with myopic vision and by marketing dweeb^H^H^H^H evangelists who didn't have clue one about the markets they were selling into.
Now if Apple had Microsoft's marketing muscle, we'd probably have near saturation of Macintosh systems throughout the world, with Steve Jobs talking about using the Apple's user interface expertese to design car dashboards. (You see, that icon on the left is the fuel level...)
Ah well, it's a miracle that Apple has any market presence, given the crappy state of affairs in Apple's non-technical middle management. If it weren't for the Macintosh faithful, I suspect we'd be saying "Apple who? Didn't they make some home brew kit in the 70's?"
Apple obviously knew that the initial G4 chip supplies from Motorola would be extremely limited, as is the case with most new processors. Regardless of these Motorola delays, Apple worked hard to finalize the design of the G4 machines in time, in order to keep the schedule of their R&D functions. The fact that the hardware designs were ready was misinterpreted by the media to mean that an announcement was immiment.
Come Seybold, Apple faced a difficult choice: Ignore this pressure to announce and fail to materialize the G4 everyone and their dog was expecting (most probably leading to a VERY bad reaction at NASDAQ), or introduce the new machines while being fully aware that there wouldn't be enough of them made anytime soon.
Apple chose the latter path, betting that the G4 introduction and a later notice of anticipated delivery problems (and lousy Q4 results) would hurt the company less than just introducing the G4 later. This is pretty understandable to me, because the sales of the G3 naturally slowed down under the G4 anticipation. I think the basic choices Apple made after the leaks have been sound, but the implementation of them, public relations wise, have proved that Apple still has serious internal communications issues to work out.
Marko Karppinen
If Slashdot (or readers) cannot responsibly research and report on Apple, it should cease doing so.
And you did, Congradulate yourself.
Slashdot makes no claim of authenticity to the stories IT LINKS TO. All Slashdot does, is grant us a forum to air our opinions on subject matter that matters to us. If you want to start an online newspaper, go ahead. Slashdot might link to one of YOUR RESPONSIBLY RESEARCHED STORIES.
Simply because you read it here doesn't imply truth. Not everything published is true. Slashdot doesn't publish any of it. You're angry at the wrong people.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
Yeah, last I heard this is called "Bait-and-Swap".
Used car dealers are notorious for it. It IS illegal here, but Mac-users seem to enjoy being bent over by a company that has screwed them over many, many times in the past.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
That really makes a lot of sense. Where are your grounds on that statement? Please, at least back something up before you post it.
Umm... "as of late"? This has been the case since last I can remember. The whole MacOS, fiasco. The whole licensed clone maker fiasco. The G3 release fiasco and now the G4 release fiasco!!! I don't even know why people bother with the Mac anymore!
I think the G4's are totally awesome processors, but I'm waiting for independent vendors to come up with a G4 motherboard to get one.
That's why they like to make risc processors! :)
OFTC: By the community, for the community
Well, I'm not actually a Mac user, but I work for an Information Services department in a place that's full of 'em. In the past four months, we've been replacing a lot of computers -- replacing PC users' three-year-old boxes with new Gateways (and then doing lots o' service on them -- but Gateway's at least really good about sending replacement parts) and replacing old Mac 6100s and 7200s with G3's. The department stopped ordering the G3's in mid-September and started telling people "Well, if you want your Mac upgraded, if you can wait about a month longer, we can give you one of the new G4s."
Then the delays started. Right now, it's reaching a point of telling people "If you want a new Mac, you'll probably have to wait until sometime in January or February, and we don't have any more of the G3s in stock. But we can give you a new PC now, if you'd like." It's not all that easy to explain the apparent reasons in terms that these people will understand... "Well, Apple's having some delays. Part of it is because Motorola, who supplies some important parts to them, isn't coming through as expected... yes, they do other things than the phones..." (and on, and on, and on... discussing, trying to explain, trying not to get sucked into a lecture on the structure of the global economy, which can happen with some of these people...). It's easier to say "Something went wrong at Apple so we won't have anything for you for a while."
We have a lot of devoted Mac users here now discovering that their mouse has one button too many. And that's another headache entirely.
"I can't find my apple menu!" "Do you have a button that says "start" in the lower left of your screen?"
Before anyone gets out of shape, take a visit to the usual Mac web sites:
http://www.macnn.com
http://www.macopinion.com
http://www.macweek.com
http://www.maccentral.com
http://www.macosrumors.com
You'll notice that none of them seem to have any sort of agreement on what the hell is going on. Remember people, it's not wise to base your judgements on something coming from ZDNet - their style of reporting was most likely to rely on one or maybe two of the above sites and cite them as 'anonymous sources'.
The fact is, nobody really knows what the hell is going on. Everything seems to point to the fact that everyone is getting their G4s at the original price except for some people who ordered early via resellers.
Now, if Apple really is going back and forth on this, well, I don't know what to say - they may have started dipping into the 'special' Kool Aid. On the other hand, this could simply be a case of one side of Apple not knowing what the hell the other side is doing (does anyone know if they use Outlook/Exchange over there?). Admittedly Apple has an odd enough history to make something like this halfway plausible, but remember who you are checking on for facts before you go apeshit...
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
- Jeff
Apple told me it'd be delivery at the end of this week. To my surprise, last week Apple canceled my order. I was very upset. But I had decided to get a G4, and damn it, I was going to get one. So I placed a new order for a slower system (Apple will not get more money from me than what I had agreed to give them).
In the meanwhile I wrote a letter to their customer relations department and another one to their local BBB. But before I sent them, Apple decided to honor my order. So, just in case, I put the letters to the side, ready to be sent if Apple screws up again.
My order was honored and my more expensive order canceled. I was happy again.
Now I hear that Apple may cancel those orders again. I don't know. The status of my order has changed from "Being Build" to "Being Reviewed" - Unfortunately I am leaving town tomorrow and won't be back until the end of the week. So when I return I will find out if Apple has decided to cancel my order or not
Apple is upseting many Mac fans, and many other prospective new Apple customers. I really don't get it. I am very tempted to just screw everything, and build my own top of the line PIII system.
But I'm still going to give them a chance to delivery my order. But they'll be crazy if they think I'll reorder a G4 if they cancel my current order.
...or there wouldn't be a Mac platform to begin with. Remember where Apple was 3 years ago?
(and yes, I do own a PowerComputing machine)
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
- Jeff
ZDNet reporting at its best I see. MacNN reports that Apple will cancel no orders from the Apple store, but only orders from resellers.
--
This space unintentionally left unblank.
We live in an age of Just-in-time manufacturing.
It's the only way a hardware company can survive anymore.
Hardware is expensive; it's just not practical to stockpile inventories and then release, because if you don't sell your product, you'll be spending lots of money on warehouse space for an inventory that you may or may not sell all of, with tons of operating capital tied up in that equipment. If you can't make the release date, most of your customers will wait the extra few weeks for you to ship before ordering a new product, especially if they've been waiting months already for this product to be released.
Also, look at what happens when there are flaws discovered after production has commenced. The G4 flaw has a very simple fix in the short term, just lower the clock speed. It could've been more serious, like the Intel 820 chipset problem -- There are thousands of motherboards that will probably need to be destroyed because they stockpiled before release. While both Moto and Intel can be seen at fault for insufficient testing, the basic fact remains that while you can almost always patch software, hardware bugs are very difficult (and hence expensive) to work around. Regardless of whether or not any of the public knew these problems ever existed, they would still cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to fix; By hyping it before your production is ramped up, you have an estimate of demand for your product and have still prevented your target consumers from purchasing the an inferior (but already released) product; so, you will not waste money on warehousing the product, and will not have any more defective parts to replace than you will actually sell on the release date.
I will agree though that Apple has a bad habit of hyping products very early without sufficient production, especially recently (iBook, AirPort, etc). The G4 is a product that needs the hype though, and here's why:
In order for Apple to remain healthy, they need the high margins of their powerful computers to keep profits up (they can NOT live on iMacs alone, there just isn't enough profit to feed R&D). Hyping the G4 early keeps people from buying lower priced G3 based systems, bringing up the most fundamental point with Apple's marketing: In their "workstation-class" machines (read: non-iMac/iBook), they are only in direct competition with themselves. The people being targeted with the G4 were 90% of the time going to buy a Mac anyhow. They have prevented a number of G3 orders from happening with the promise of the G4 -- and therefore will increase their average profit when all of the G4's are finally shipped. To have NOT hyped the G4 would have been just as poor a marketing decision.
All of this, of course, is offtopic. The issue here is not should they have hyped the G4 without sufficient units produced, it is should they have cancelled all existing orders and cut performance ratings without cutting prices, and then waffle on the issue until nobody had any idea what was going on.
You can put the blame on Motorola for the G4-500 fiasco.
But Apple is solely to blame for 2 actions, which will anger customers far more than not having the 500Mhz processor.
1) Cancelling pre-orders
2) Downgrading processors without reducing the prices
The rationale for #1 is directly connected to #2. In order to protect their profit margin, pre-orders must be cancelled in order to make people order into the 3 price tiers.
The pathetic excuse of DRAM prices is ridiculous. Apple carries a 30-35% margin on their G4 line [26& overall, but G4 is higher margin than iMac]. That means ~$750 profit on a $2500 system. They can afford to eat the DRAM price rise. The quarterly profit will be severely hampered, but they wouldn't expose themselves to lawsuits and bad PR.
It sounds like the financial guys are in charge, while customer service is at the bottom of the pile. Think Different. The stock price is more important than your customers.
I agree. This post should not have deserved an "insightful" rating. Slashdot moderators, please take note!
Hmm...I'm sure apple NEVER screwed Motorola around, or IBM for that matter. God I can't wait for the CHRP based linux boxes to ship. Who the hell wants to ever buy a mac anyways??
I start a new job on Nov 1. I pushed hard to have a new Mac instead of a Gateway running NT. Now I do not know if I will get a Mac, but will be stuck with NT simply because Apple cannot fill orders for G4s, iBooks, and maybe even iMacs. I might be able to use an old 8600 laying around, but frankly, I was looking forward to being able to use a new Mac. Given that I will immediatly have a project with a strict deadline after I start, I know my new employer simply cannot wait for Apple to get it's act in gear. And I know that if I get that NT box, I'll never get a Mac. So what do I do? Use the old 8600 (released circa 96)? I suppose I could take out another loan for a new Mac and wait for it to come in. But most likely, I'll probably cart my G3 to my new job on public transportation.
If only I could talk them into a Powerbook and external monitor....
Hmm, Apple seems to be slipping as of late. This is what internal discussion and one press release is for. Not 3 different announcements taking something back.
-----
ZDNet has egg on it's face this morning, along with a lot of slashdot readers who jump at the first opportunity to trash Apple.
Apple has issued a press release this morning stating in part "Apple® today announced it will honor all orders for its Power Macintosh® G4 computers placed before Wednesday, October 13, at the originally quoted prices, including those placed with the Company's resellers which were accompanied by a purchase order, or a cash or credit card deposit."
They're changing their mind... No they aren't... Now they are again. Apple's starting to look like Amiga.
The main proof that Apple is doing well is the amount of /. articles about Apple, the amount of irrational replies ("Apple is dead") to those, and the amount of orders Apple have (more than Half a Quarter of back-orders).
You may not like the Mac, but it is here and it will stay for some time...
that their losing more customers this way them either decision would have cost them.
I'm under the impression that they really need the G4 to succeed, but between the bug itself, and their lousy handling of it, that seems unlikely.
God does not play dice - Einstein
Not only does God play dice, he sometimes throws them where they
I cannot get over how Apple has made made move that seem to have put them on the come back, then smash all their work with bad PR. I think it's sad to see that they ince lead the way in computing. Ok, so they stole an idea or two from Xerox... But at one time all you saw in schools and such was Apple II machines. They were everywhere, but once again Apple has hurt themselves with their own stupidity/ego/cluelessness. *sigh*
Once again, you have proven yourself to be an idiot. You assume that everyone with moderation points hates NT and MS and loves Linux. Sorry, this is not the case. As I stated before, moderation is about what's GOOD and INFORMATIVE, not what's popular.
Those were 3 posts from ONE article. There were more in that article itself, I didn't even have to look hard. The scoring of posts is NOT about pro/anti Linux with the intellegent moderators, it's about what's written well and what contributes to the discussion at hand.
You though, seem to do little to contribute to the discussion at hand, and even in the face of information that proves you wrong, you continue to act like a troll, not listening, babbling on your tired point again and again. I only respond to you because I am in favor of moderation, I support how it works around here. Peer review is what makes Free Software work, and it works to moderate this place. What you need to do is grow up yourself, and remember that the world isn't against you, and that the only person you're impressing with your anti-moderation and groundless anti-linux babble is yourself. Find me some GOOD points that disprove GNU Software and I'll be glad to give you a dozen reasons in counterpoint to every one you give.
Is Apple drunk or is Motorola screwing them around?
"Once again, you have proven yourself to be an idiot."
/., not
Once again you have stooped to insults when I am
speaking about my actual experiences on
that great state of "Theory." (You know,
everything works in Theory.)
The fact of the matter is slashdot has a majority
of pro-Linux, pro-OSS, anti-MS, and especially
anti-anti-Linux people. Now, I've taken
statistics, so I do believe it is not my
imagination (nor implausible) when I say that most
things that are anti-Linux or anti-OSS get thrown
down to the bottom. The few times I have seen this
trend bucked is when the post in question is
lengthy, or by a person with high karma, or when
they go out of their way to be "nice" to the
Linux camp. (Or when some anti-Linux folks happen
upon it first.)
But if an anti-Linux or anti-OSS person takes the
same tone as many of the posts I've seen that are
pro-Linux (anti-MS, anti-Apple, etc.), then that
post is immediately sent to hell.
"You though, seem to do little to contribute to
the discussion at hand,"
In other words, you usually disagree with me, so
my opinion should be silenced.
"and even in the face of information that proves
you wrong, you continue to act like a troll,"
What information proves me wrong? I never would
seriously claim that EVERY POST that goes against
Linux is moderated down. But I have seen plenty
that are on target, but anti-Linux, marked down.
"not listening, babbling on your tired point again and again."
So in other words, I should just listen to YOU,
swallow anything YOU say, never disagree.
Otherwise, I'm a troll, or "an idiot," because
I don't agree?
Do you ever realize when you're being absurd?
"What you need to do is grow up yourself,"
Hmmm, I believe that's insult #3 for this thread.
"and remember that the world isn't against you,"
Actually, I was just talking about moderation on
slashdot. How this escalated to the world is
beyond me...
"and that the only person you're impressing with
your anti-moderation and groundless anti-linux
babble is yourself."
Well at least you're impressing people for the
both of us then, eh?
"Find me some GOOD points that disprove GNU
Software and I'll be glad to give you a dozen
reasons in counterpoint to every one you give."
When did I say I was against GNU software?
Oh, I see, you're assuming that because I'm sick
of hearing about Linux or OSS that I disapprove
of GNU software... Gee, I never would have thought
you were one to jump to conclusions.
Hardy har har.
-WW
It's strange how so many of its fanatics characterize Apple as the greatest company in the world, who only has the best interests of its customers in mind. I'll be amazed to see what kind of FUD the Mac-fanatics come up with to make this whole flimflam excusable.
But seriously, the original G4-cancellation announcement was wrong (in the immoral sense). Telling your paying customers the product they ordered simply won't be available but they can have a lesser product for its original price is tantamount to a slap in the face. I imagine the flak they caught over that caused them to make the change they did, which was the Right thing to do. Now this? This like slapping your customers in the face, apologizing and promising to make amends, then slapping them again.
I hate Marketing departments...
MoNsTeR
"Whose site is this? Andover.net's, and, by extension, Rob Malda's."
(Actually, it's just andover.net's. You see, they
bought the site from Rob.)
My browser loads the banner ad just as well as
your's. I think (since I'm helping pay for this
site just as much as you), well, I think I'll just
keep coming back.
"If you don't like the way he runs it, get the fuck out. Nobody's forcing you to type "slashdot.org" in the URL box."
Actually, in my browser we have what's known as
a BOOKMARK. You see, you don't actually have to
keep typing the URL.
I know, it's a huge leap in graphical user interface designs...
bzzt.
-WW
i think most people are willing to accept that maybe a processor isn't working properly. but when the company stops orders, starts them back up, and stops them again. that's when i draw my line. I'm sure quite a few people are highly aggrivated with apple right now.
I remember Apple's promise to commitment which made many iMacs never make it to shelves. They tested the computers BEFORE they went out to market. It seems now they're loosing their quality dedication, this is the sort of problem that should have easily been noticed during all those quake3-photoshop tests.
And we both seem to have gone a wee bit far on this one, no? A flamewar is good for the ego, but not the soul.
Seriously though, the moderation around here isn't all THAT bad. While it's true that a post that just says 'MS sucks, haha' is less likely to be moderated down then a 'Linux sucks, haha' post, the general idea of moderation DOES work. I've seen the silly 'MS sucks, haha' comments get moderated down for redundancy. Heck, we should be both be taking Karmic penalty for wandering this far offtopic =)
My point is that the moderation around here doesn't suck as bad as you say. I like to think I'm fairly level headed, and as an active moderator, I don't like to see the moderation slandered. The local bias does weigh down on the people fighting the general consensus around here, but at the same time, quality posting still ends up being seen at Score:2.
I'll agree though, that the blatant anti-MSness around here is getting to me. I hardly think MS's code is worth the CD's it's burned on, but in the end, I don't want to see endless 'MS sux my A$$' posts. There just aren't enough moderator points for all the redundancy, and the moderation guidelines say to score up more then you score down.
And as far as me being the One True Right, not even my ego can swallow that whole. And I did assume much. I think we'll both survive though.
It seems that Apple, once again, has begun another slow death because of bad PR. Simple rule of business: Talk it over within yourselves 3 times + 1 press release, not the other way around. They're probably going to lose a lot of customers from this, because the customers just don't know if they can trust Apple to do what it's expected to do.
My plan is to pimp before they realize I'm a jackass. Hit 'em hard and fast.
I just can't wait to see what happens to their stock price on Monday. I imagine it will not fare very well.
-B
Bring back the Woz!
---
---
Book(n): Utensil used to pass time while waiting for the TV repairman
This sequence of events is starting to remind me of Ross Perot on Larry King Live, and the Saturday Night Live that made fun of it. In. Out. In. Out. Take Orders. Cancel Orders. Reinstate Orders. Re-cancel Orders.
What a whole crappy state of affairs.
Fortunately, I live in the UK, where there are laws against this sort of thing. Apple legally has to send me the stuff I ordered, and at the price I ordered it for. So all smiles here. : )
--- Apparently I have an old
So of course hold your tongue on all Microsoft postings UNTIL MS has had a chance to send out a press release. That's only fair, right?
From now on the rule is: Press releases are good sources of REAL news, and we trust all companies not to spin us like tops.
-------------------------------------------
But the sub-text of what you wrote is valid: no reason to act like a bunch chickens with our heads cut off.
Looks to me like Apple is now being run by accountants with myopic vision of short term profits. It's time for Apple to find a full time CEO who will be accountable for the company. Kudos to Steve Jobs for the cool products that he brought to market. But it's time to start looking for a new leader who will take Apple to the next millinium. Either that or quit Pixar!
I am very tempted to just screw everything, and build my own top of the line PIII system. A good plan, but if you're wanting "top of the line", you'll be wanting an AMD Athlon (K7), not a P3. See http://no6.com/apple/ for a good comparison of CPU speeds, etc. between these processors.
I think it's an interesting point. I really hadn't considered how many *new* users the G4 is attracting. It certainly looks good enough on paper, and even I, PC user that I am, have considered getting one if it delivers it's promises.
I can't help but wonder how many more people are in the same boat as you, and even more die-hard MAC users that also refuse to reorder the system yet again. I can't help but think this is going to do irreperable damage to their ESTABLISHED customer base, as well as the NEW users they had attracted. Oh well, just my thoughts.
Seems like a few people can't take a joke.
I think Apple is subcontracting G4 order fulfillment to either BUY.COM or SHOPPING.COM...
Any "Wounded G4 Children" reading this?
Well actually this doesn't really seem to be the case at least around here. My sister's 400 ordered from the Apple Store is apparently on it's way. And the local Mac store has quite a few 400's on the way. (Which means two in the office on Wednesday!)
Plus after a conversation with the owner of said store, this is not really hurting buisness as much as helping it. People are putting their money down sooner than later because the situation creates an I-gotta-get-mine-now feeling. Anyway...
-- I could prove I'm right, but I my hard drive's full.
I share your feelings, of course, in the sense that I'd be annoyed if I ordered one and it got cancelled (especially if I knew the price was going up and was patting myself on the back at having got in under the wire :), but I also keep a level head about stuff like this by remembering that it's a two-way street. I like to be able to cancel orders too, so why can't Apple?
I attribute attitudes like yours (I'm not singling you out) to this weird thing people do on the subject of money: for example, when buying something used from a friend, people always expect a good deal on price because it's "for a friend". Why don't people ever want to throw in extra money because it's "for a friend"?
The law, by the way, recognizes something similar to what Apple did in the legal definition of a contract. A contract is not binding just because two people sign and agree to do something. One of them has to "rely" on it and actually do something to indicate that that they relied on it. Now, there are also laws about "false advertizing" and as a result Apple probably has a disclaimer that says that they can cancel, so contract law doesn't enter into it, but it's still interesting (and very much on topic ;) to see that it's nothing new.
As to your hating Marketing Departments, it was probably Finance that said "hey, this is going to cost us too much." Marketing was undoubtedly saying, "this is going to hurt us a lot in PR." Doesn't that kill you: Marketing was on your side!
I think that this story is just fsck-up by ZDNet. None of the Mac News sites are saying any such thing.
I have to hand it to Apple for (eventually) sticking by quality even at the expense of deadlines.
I am no Mac user - my experience with apples ended with the IIe in high school. However, Apples have nearly always provided a performance edge for graphics and sound production environments. Their attention to quality hardware (not so much the OS) is appreciated.
I would rather see a company apologize for its mistake and take a blow to PR than to release a product which they knew required a fix (ex. every release of Windows or NT to date.)
Haven't we all learned something by now?
Rule 1: never buy software that says version 1.0 on it.
I would also like to add that the same rule holds forth for new hardware. The G4 is a wholly new platform. It stands to reason that Apple would have some problems with ramp-up. Sounds like someone skipped a few milestones on the project chart, like the step that says "does it work according to the specifications?" and "can we make enough?" That just shows a lack of planning that is not an emergency on my part.
Also, most Mac folx will agree that it is not the company we love, but rather the machines. I am starting to see a problem within the company. After Mr. Jobs comes up with an idea, the actual process should be passed to someone who can take care of all the picky little things that need to be done to assure the Company that Things Like This don't Happen Again. Perhaps Mr. Jobs should not be involved with the daily runnings but the overall vision (yuck, I hate that word) of the Company.
Just my two bits.
Where does the law draw the line between "you can't have what we advertized and you paid for" and "we are fraudulant criminals, equivalent to the psychics and infomercials as seen on TV"? Not trying to be mean or accusational; it's just irony.
"'If you think this is unfair, you should contact malda@slashdot.org.' Let me get this straight, you want everyone to E-Mail Rob and tell him that his method of temp-banning is unfair?"
No, that sentence is from the actual message you
get when you're banned for 24 hours. It says to
contact Rob, at which point he will side with the
Linux/GPL zealots and tell you they were right to
moderate you down...
"Forget it."
Yeah, you're right, it's just a waste of time
trying to talk to malda unless you're one of those
aforementioned.
-WW
"Thank god for moderator points. "
Yep, that way we don't have to read anything
that criticizes Linux, eh? Yeehaw!!
-WW
In my defense:
/.ers under these conditions.
/., with yours :-) ) Web sites like MacOsRumors (whose quality has declined recently, in my opinion) at least take care to place big "rumors" disclaimers in their articles...
:-)
I must admit that I enjoy (if not love) it when people take me to my words: I believe you (or at least most people) would agree that my comment was made in a certain context; that Apple is reversing an already reversed decision concerning its shipping of pre-ordered product and even cancelling of orders for this product. This is, if true, major news : it would represent a flagrant example of really, really bad apple PR, incredibly awful management and a general lack of respect towards the consumer. These are not light things. In this context, considering that ZDNet cites an unnamed source and that other Apple-related web sites have different stories, wouldn't it be a good idea to wait for an official statement from the company in question ? It's not like they can hope to swipe this under a rug or anything, they'll have to make this policy known officially really soon if they want it to be enforced.
As for your accusations towards Microsoft; If ZDNet cited an unnamed internal Microsoft (to keep to your example) source as saying that the company had decided to cancel development of Windows 2000 (which I would be happy at hearing) or decided to force users to pay an incredible fee for said Windows 2000 simply because they have a monopoly and can, wouldn't you tend to argue that maybe ZDNet is pushing it a bit and maybe we should wait for the next business day (tomorrow) and hope to see some statement from the company ?
My PERSONNAL (yup, that's in uppercase) point of view is that the company should be considered innocent until proven guilty. ZDNet hasn't brought many facts to back its accusation.
It is sad to see the lynching of Apple by
P.S. : For what its worth, if I ever learn, beyond any doubt, that this is true then I will be one of the first to bash on Apple. However, if this turns out to be false, then I do believe ZDNet should at least apologize (and said apology should show up on
In conclusion, never ignore the context in which a comment is made...
P.S. #2: This venting feels good...
The Woz was an engineer. He loved engineering, he was a genius at it, and that's all he wanted to do. When Apple was founded, he gladly handed the reins to Jobs.
Don't users of the MacOS realize how poorly their being treated here? I would think yes, but where I work the Mac guys drool so long as the box says G4. The name means more to them than the specs or the politics.
I'd like to trade up from my Pentium, but I won't choose an Apple box for some time due to policies like these.
Anyone what effect this is having on the num of new macs purchased? macintosh stock?
Where I work there are the Mac user and those (everyone else) who laugh at Apple's blunders. I wish apple didn't make it so easy.
This is why I hate mail order - I never buy any equipment unless it's physically in the store and I can wheel the box out with my own hands.
I don't think this is going to hurt Apple much, mainly because the product is so strong. Apple customers love the product more than they hate the company's business practices. This is especially true with the new G4s and DV iMacs, which are looking like fantastic creations.
Where it might have an impact is on the Apple store. I've always wondered why people would buy from Apple, when they can get the same product from a retail computer store for less money. I know retailers are pretty clueless nowadays, but at least you have a nice clean transaction where you give them the money and they hand you a computer. Nothing beats that kind of immediacy.
Next time I buy a Mac, that's exactly what I'm going to do - no messups, clean transaction, I get my machine and walk away with it. Sorry, Apple Store.
D
----
And also the cheapest. Assuming Apple will deliver my 450mhz G4, I'll be getting it for $2255 using my University discount. That's a heck of a price when you consider I'd pay $2849 for the same system at a store (with the new price structure). A savings of $594.
There's something I don't get here,
;-) - if the second is true, well they should have been more careful with their pre-anouncements, methinks. ;-))
if I'm agreeing to deliver a product to a client at a guaranted deadline and have suppliers I'm depended on to meet the deadline, I demand deadlines from them, too.
I make contracts with my suppliers where I write down fees for not delivering in time.
I set the fees at least as high as the fees I will have to pay because I cannot meet the timing.
Or I get a phrase in the suppliers contract which states that they have to cover my costs which arise when they fail to deliver in time.
Either apple is dumber than me in doing contracts (which I heavily doubt) or motorola denies to sign such terms. If the first is true - apple, you know where to find me
Oh, I forgot one possibility, perhaps motorola apple has to pay fees to apple and apple just wants to keep them for themselves. (big
Even in the very turbulent graphic boards market I haven't seen such corporate behaviour before.
Announcing vaporware - yes, for sure, but taking orders for vaporware (in the sense of being not ready for delivery) - no, never.
For all those bagging on Apple's PR ("slow death" please! look at the orders/stock recently) there was no flip flopping press releases. Their was one announcement and two letters to customers. Some cancelled orders were in fact filled and Apple sent those people letters. The Mac rumor-news Press TM picked in up and ran "Everyone's going to get your orders!" That was conjecture Not Apple.
:)
As a Mac (Not MAC people!) owner and Apple shareholder I am not outraged or concerned. How many "I used x but not anymore." messages appear hear for Apple, RedHat, Intel, etc. I don't reallly pay attention to them anymore. Apple will prosper and this will be like the whole G4 ROM block tempest in a teapot. (Everyone knows that the G4 upgrades are available now willl no action/reversal from Apple, right?) If I HAD ordered a 500mhz G4 I would be a little mad at Motorla, but hey -some Mhz +some RAM what is the big loss? Not much.
If these wild-cat boycotts worked/were even for real, Apple would of died after killing the Clones. Instead it's gotten 2x marketshare and 3+x stock price.
Disclaimer: Apple is a public corporation and should be trusted/not trusted to act as such. Apple is no one's mother Teresa it sells product for profit.
They're market share has grown, small yes, but it still has grown....due to the iMac.
The title says it all.
I can't think of how someone could post 5+ comments and have all 5 moderated down in 24 hours. That's not steep. And I can say negative things about the GPL and about GNU software and if my comments are generally insightful or informative and more then 'LINUX SUX MY A$$.' If the quality of this users posts are generally as devoid of thought as the flame he just directed at Malda, then I don't think he should be heard, at least not at a Score:1.
And don't give me tripe about the moderation being totally out in deep left field around here. Some moderators aren't good, but on the whole, unfair moderations are undone eventually. Lately, I've been reading a lot of score 2 comments that are not ALL pro-GPL.
And on the side, I'd have to say that GNOME, KDE, XFree86, the kernel itself, all are 'large programs.' So thank you, that last point was TOTALLY useless. And honestly, V4L (Video4Linux) is still new, so you should start to see video editing programs come. Neccessity is the mother of invention.
If it's true that Apple wouldn't have survived to be with us today if they'd had competition, well, then I say "good riddance" to them. Existing only because you're a monopoly is pathetic.
;-)
(and yes, I too own a PowerComputing machine
The main reason is that there is no mac competition. If you really want something that runs macos then you have to go to Apple and if they screw up-you're screwed.
Interesting theory, but it doesn't hold water. If Apple had competition in the Mac box arena it would make no difference here. Motorola's inability to deliver would mess up everyone equally.
Moderation points are to ensure that QUALITY, INFORMATIVE posts are scored up. The general comment of "GNU/GPL/Linux/Malda/etc SUX!" deserves the moderation points applied to it.
2 6253&cid=307 2 6253&cid=377
2 6253&cid=19
And, to add insult to injury, here's a list of Score:2 posts that are actually pro-NT/MS.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=99/10/13/08
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=99/10/13/08
Here's one that's actually points to the '10 Dumb NT' things, and applies them as '10 Dumb Linux' things. Score:4
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=99/10/13/08
So why don't YOU stop trolling? While there certainly IS a pro-GNU attitude to this place *SHOCK!!*, don't assume noone has a brain. Except yourself.
This scenario isn't really news. They've already done this with Windows NT 4.0, and will most likely do this with NT 5.0 as well. So if ZD reported that MS was going to stick it to the little guys because they could I sure wouldn't be surprised.
There is no problem with Apple raising its prices. That it can do whenever it wants to. (Even if we don't like it.)
The problem comes when Apple cancels orders that it has already taken.
The cancellation of confirmed orders is what is making customers angry.
When Apple took these orders, Apple agreed to deliver its product for a given price. Now Apple is backing away from its agreement and alienating nearly 80,000 customers by not honoring its contract with them.
A great analysis of the situation (before the flip-flop of the flip-flop) can be found at MacOpinion.
I do smell a class-action lawsuit brewing here, but for those who don't wish to make an attorney richer, please take the time to let the Federal Trade Commission know how you feel about this using the FTC Complaint Form.
Btw, in the two scenarios you present, Apple ships more units the first way, not the second (with the worst case being an equal number of shipments).
----
why don't we just wait until apple gives some kind of clear, definitive statement on this? like, maybe just wait a day or two, until we have some idea what is going on? Or would you rather just go on with your current strategy of reprinting and magnifying and making a big deal out of what are essentially rumors?
I mean, if apple did cancel the orders that wasn't very nice of them; if they're going to give people who ordered G4s, discounts, that's nice. But do you have to know one way or the other right this instant?? can't you wait a bit until we can have some kind of news report that is definately true one way or the other? instead of the columbine/lewinsky-style drudge reporting we have now?
Damn kids these days. No patience whatsoever. they have to have instant gratification. Can't wait for reliable reports on anything, have to know immediately even if it means it's maybe innacurate..
Hey, wait a minute, i just remembered-- i'm 16, i'm one of the damn kids. and the whole instant-gratification demands in news were brought about by CNN, which was started by baby boomers, and fed by tabloids bought and run by baby boomers.. Hmm. Aw, whatever.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Geez....a company makes a mis-step or a bad PR move and EVERYONE and they're brother comes out of the woodwork to condemn and spout off drivel like: "I'll never trust them again. I'll never buy from them again. I told you so. They're on they're way out. They're dead for sure now" blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.....
Why is everyone so quick to pounce or stuff like this? Is there something to gain from posting this negativity? Why do you do it? These comments matter ZERO to anyone...including mine here.
What is the thought process one goes through when they see a story like this here at Slashdot? Do you read the story and just HAVE to put your 2 cents worth in...which in the case of any Apple story means posting the same old things I mentioned above? No one cares.
To save you some trouble in the future, why doesn't Slashdot put a special Perl script so when they post an Apple story, one only has to hit a button to leave a boiler-plate message on how Apple is dying or stupid or evil...etc etc etc. And while they're at it, write one for Microsoft also.
Blah blah blah...
Let me start with a couple of cliches.
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"
That 12% market share being cited is a classic example of both of the cliches. Apple does have a 12% market share in U.S. Consumer market. But that totally excludes international market, corporate market, etc...
Apple's overall market share in the computer market is estimated to be 6%. That's down from the highs of ~15% in the late 80's and even down from the 7% market share of 1996.
No, moderator points are so we don't have to read stuff like this that has nothing to do with original topic.
jamus (posted via anonymous coward so this reply doesn't get the usual +1 bonus for logged in users, because this reply is off-topic--but the reply had to be made.)
So you're a computer company dependent on another company for your chips. Fairly normal. Your chip supplier tells you to expect X number of chips and A, B, and C speeds. You plan your configurations, price points, and advertising around these numbers. Then several weeks after you've announced your spiffy new computers, your chip supplier calls you up and says "Oops, we goofed, we won't be able to give you as many chips as we thought and we won't have any running at A Mhz. Sorry!" What are you, as a computer manufacturer, going to do? If Apple had changed processor speeds and price points, their low-end pro system would cost less than an iMac, and they'd be losing tons of revenue because they wouldn't be selling anything at their highest price point. And the reason that they're only honoring a few orders is that they just don't have enough chips to fill all the preorders.
Apple is between a rock and a hard place: if they adjusted their price points to make their customers happy they'd see their profits and stock price drop and their shareholders would be unhappy. So they maintained their price points and a lot of customers are unhappy. If there's anyone to blame here it's Motorola for not meeting demand for the chips. Call me cynical, but I have a feeling that if this was anyone but Apple people would be acting a lot more reasonably.
Another Apple story is posted to SlashDot and another series of pro and con messages are posted. I am glad to see no "They are not GPLed so they suck" messages (although they may have been moderated down).
One comment rally struck me. It seems to be on a lot of people's lips when an "Apple screwed up again" news story comes out (even like this one, without a shred of evidence backing it) - "It seems that Apple, once again, has begun another slow death."
What? Is that like "multiple successful suicide"? For years people have been forecasting the end of Apple. "Apple is dying. Apple cannot survive this time."
Guess what- Apple is still here. No, their market share never seems to go anywhere. They do good (PowerPCs, switching over to the PCI architecture, and so on) and they do bad (flamable PowerBooks, cancelling clones). And yet they are just as strong as ever. Never growing stronger and, at the same time, never growing weaker.
Why is that? Well, with everyone's favorite monopoly, Microsoft, around, Apple can only tread water. It has a good product (wheter you choose to admit it or not, MacOS is a decent evironment. There are better out there, but not a whole lot), but not good enough to take MS down (can anyone, single-handedly?).
Apple does have a good customer base, and good customer loyalty. Apple has been smart enough to know that interoperability is key. Starting many years ago, all shipping Macs are capable of reading PC disks (floppy and otherwise). TCP/IP became an imporant form of networking that Apple soon integrated (MacOS 9 includes AppleScripting over TCP/IP!). These facts keep it afloat, despite PR screwups.
So where does that leave Apple? Not able to break the 10-15% marketshare because of MS, but with a strong enough customer base that it is not going to fail. I would not call Apple a "niche" company, since there is not set "niche" that is customers fall into. Rather, Apple is a by-product of the current monopolistic state we find ourselves in with dektop PCs.
Perhaps Linux-followers have a lot to learn from Apple.
- (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
Yes, "clear product" strategies have been popular lately :)
Oh geez, let's not go there.
If he wanted a "top of the line" system he'd order a Sparc Ultra something-or-other. Or an SGI. Whatever.
AMD sucks. (just my opinion- wanta buy a slightly used K6-2 mobo/processor??)
as some huge screw-up or the end of Apple? Apple makes just a little more than 500mhz G4 computers. This problem only really affects the people who are wanting to buy the 500mhz G4 which is about 20% of all the people buying the G4 line. Because of their price the G4 400 counts for a much larger percentage of G4 sales then the 450 and 500 combined. This will not sink Apple in any way. You can also extrapolate the people buying the 450 and 500 are probably the niche market-graphic designers, digital video/audio authoring, publication-which probably have damn fast G3's already and just wanted the next step up to up their productivity a few hours. For Windows users you ought to be rooting Apple on, without them USB would be Intel's wet dream that never really caught on. The iMac is what really started the USB wildfire going, I bought a system in '97 that had USB ports, no one really gave a sh*t. Then the iMac and it's USB toys came out and everyone was touting their "new" USB ports on systems. Linux/unix users should be thankful that Apple is there to keep people pondering Windows alternatives, Linux would have never become the media frenzy it is now had there not been Mac geeks making a name for the non-M$ world before most of us ever heard of Linux.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
MacNewsNetwork (www.macnn.com) has the latest word that places like AppleInsider and ZD have things mixed up, and that Apple will do it's best to fulfill all AppleStore orders as ordered, but those in the retail chain (compusa, macmall, etc) will be out of luck. Apple was unable to provide our University with information about our order though, I'm sure they are playing it safe..
- A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
"So why don't YOU stop trolling?"
This is an example of what I'm talking about.
Because you don't agree with me, you have to
label me a troll, even though what I said was
the absolute truth based on my experience on
slashdot. Big deal, you pointed out three posts
that buck the trend. All that means is some anti-
Linux people got there before you.
-WW
Steve Jobs is nothing but a dope-smoking hippie in his 40s. Kick him out, and replace hime with someone who can run a company(like Gil Amelio). You may say: "Well Steve founded Apple, he's great for the company!". Well, I know everyone likes Steve(So do I), but he can't run a company very well. All he does is think about the short term, Gil thought long term. So, If you're afraid of losing all the publicity, put Jobs and his 'reality distortion feild' in marketing. Put Woz at the head of engineering, and Gil as the CEO.
HAL 7000, fewer features than the HAL 9000, but just as homicidal!
Why does Slashdot let this drivel through the gate? And better yet, why do so many Slashdot readers believe it? Slashdot is supposed to be about not swallowing things based on face value. Apple has issued ONE, SINGULAR, UNO press release on this matter, entitled "Apple Reconfigures Power Mac G4 Processor Speeds to Match Chip Availability." Whatever ZDNet and MacWeek said is their problem. Let's review Slashdot's stories on this over the past several days:
Wednesday: According to MacInTouch, Apple just reduced the processing speed of G4s by 50Mhz, without a price reduction or change in configuration, and cancelled all outstanding orders.
Thursday: According to MacInTouch "Apple has reversed the cancellation of existing Power Mac G4 orders, according to impeccable sources, and is calling back customers to explain
Sunday: "ZDNN appears to be reporting that Apple appears to be reversing its decision to reinstate all cancelled G4 orders, except for "a few orders"
So, for some odd reason, the first two days are pointed at MacInTouch, but the last one is pointed at ZDNet. If anyone had actually looked at MacInTouch today, they would realize that MacInTouch has (correct) information that directly contradict's MacWeek's:
As we reported first on Oct. 14, Apple reversed its decision to cancel outstanding Apple Store orders for Power Mac G4 computers and to force customers to re-order. [...] (Sources say that a contradictory report, citing Apple spokesperson Rhona Hamilton, has since been retracted.)
MacNN.com (the most reputable of the sites, IMNSHO), confirms this:
Our understanding is that all Apple Store orders before the "reconfiguration announcement" will be honored, as part of Apple's reversal on its G4 Cancellation policy. [...] (Muddying the issue is a MacWEEK report that claims Apple will only be reversing a limited number of Apple Store orders.)
If Slashdot (or readers) cannot responsibly research and report on Apple, it should cease doing so.
- Scott
------
Scott Stevenson
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
It's hard for me to imagine a company's marketing dept. allowing someone to go public, and change their minds this much in a row. Seems to me, in order for marketing, PR, and other such departments to allow this, there must be some real NASTY delays. Perhaps more than what we're hearing about?
I for one, don't use a MAC, so it's no sweat off my back. However, I can't help but feel for the mass of business owners that had theirs on mass order, awaiting their arrival. Oftentimes, as is happening where I work, companies make plans AROUND the fact and around the date they are to receive new equipment.
Point? Well, don't really have one. But you've got to wonder how many hard core MAC users this is upsetting. Quite obviously, to have something pre-ordered, you either REALLY like what it has to offer, are REALLY devoted to the organization, or simply NEED it BADLY, and very fast.
I'd love to hear from some MAC users, perhaps even some people who had these on pre-order, and get their take on the situation.
Come on... we know there's a problem with the CPUs, and thats a risk they took when they let people preorder them. I don't think Apple is to blame for the problem, but that PR spamfest wasn't much help for their customers that are trying hard not to loose their temper.
I mean, its like they're chatting over press releases; we don't care how they arrive to a decision about resolving the matter, we want to know the decision when they make it. This is the definition of adding insult to injury.
Apple seems unable to realize that they can't treat their customers like idiots and expect the G4 to be the big success they need it to be.
-W
Here's another example, folks. Those of you who thought Apple was somehow different from Micros~1 or Intel or the other G&S meisters out there have just gotten a cold shower.
Apple needs to clear this PR disaster up quickly or they will start losing market share again.
To Apple: C'mon guys, lets get the act together. Customer service is the biggest thing to differentiate you from your competition. People aren't going to buy your boxes, no matter how "superior" you might think they are if you don't take care of the customer. Customers are why you are in business.
I can't believe so many companies, especially Silicon Valley companies miss this mark. Just putting out a good product isn't enough. Turn your nose at your customers, and they'll just go elsewhere.
My journal has hot
Apple support rep: They're here! No wait... They're not! Oh, updated info - They're back! No, wait... management says... damn, they're gone again. Oooh! They're back according to manufacturing. WAIT! hold the presses inventory says we're short! No... Marketing says...
--
hmm. It seems this whole fiasco is largely the result of problems with Motorola's ability to supply G4s. Granted, Apple should have either a. waited until they had a reliable supply of chips or b. issued one press release cancelling the orders "due to parts supply problems" or something. But, since this isn't entirely their fault, and a lot of people are going to come down hard on Apple alone, perhaps it would be a wise move to pass the buck, or at least some change, on to Motorola. I mean, Motorola is at the root of this problem; it seems sort of unfair for Apple to have to take all the heat because Motorola can't deliver what thet promised.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
Every impression of Steve Jobless I've seen is that he's a madman. He probably got to work on the morning of the chip warnings, yelled and screamed "YOU GUYS ARE NOT BEING PAID TO BE A BUNCH OF CLOWNS!!!!! I NEED ARTISTS!!!!!!" at his employees for the chips being defective and to ordered ramped up production of defective 500Mhz computers to stop a PR disaster.
Steve yelled as loud as he could at Motorala engineers "ARE YOU VIRGINS!!?!" to push the defective chips out while Motorola engineers probably winced that morning and wondered what the idiot was doing. Then Apple started getting complaints from customers.
At 3am fielding a sea of customer complaints Steve's engineers probably started yelling at him "I'M SO SICK AND TIRED OF YOUR ABUSE ON THIS PROJECT!!!!" for being such a madman. Steve finally exploded and yelled "ALL RIGHT! These chips don't work. Stop production!!!!" Definitely a guy you don't want to work for.
If you think this is unfair, you should contact malda@slashdot.org.
Let me get this straight, you want everyone to E-Mail Rob and tell him that his method of temp-banning is unfair?
Forget it.
I don't think you understand how difficult it is to run a forum like this and how consuming it is (both economically and time-wise). To come into a fourm and ask for the floodgates to open into Malda's mailbox is a stupid, juvenile thing to do.
Things like temp-banning, moderation, and karma were put into place because people like you continually abused the system.
Oh yeah, and the GNU rant was so stupid it was humorous. Yeah, I'm sure everyone will want to help you out on your E-Mail campain.
aÍÍ©ÍÌÍ£Ì'̽ͩÌÍzÍYÌÍÌY
This is just business as usual for Apple. Bad business, to be sure, but these sorts of things should be expected by now. Maybe paying this much attention to Apple is new to a large number of the /. crowd. Whenever they announce for sale a new product that you want you have to give them at least two weeks, if not a month, and closely follow macintouch and the other sites to see if they rushed it. Wait for the reports of product delays, periferals that don't work, software that does not work,...etc it will all sort itself out and is usually worth the wait. But you have to wait when it comes to Apple. Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending them. This is (another) royal screw up. I'm just not surprised is all and I'll probably be looking into getting a G4 system in a couple of months when the dust settles and I can be sure I know what I'm getting.
Davo -- Free speech, free software, AND free beer.
That $594 savings is a bird in the bush.
The $2849 machine is a bird in the hand.
Your "University discount" also makes it an unfair comparison.
This is so confusing that I don't know what to think of this anymore. I'd suggest Apple just come out and say exactly what they're planning to do (which, if they're at all concerned about doing The Right Thing, is to reinstate all of those orders except the 500-MHz ones, and even on those to offer a nice big price cut on the 450-MHz models). Enough with all the reversals.
No no, that's ESR talking to RMS, not Steve to his employees. *rimshot*
=)
Every impression of Eric I've seen is that he is a madman. He probably got to work on the morning of the Halloween document release and screamed "YOU GUYS AREN'T BEING PAYED! GO OUT THERE AND GET PAID YOU BUNCH OF CLOWNS! I NEED CODERS!" at his followers for the software being defective and buggy and ordered ramped up coding of defective GNU software to stop a PR disaster.
Eric yelled as loud as he could at RMS and his merry band "ARE YOU STUPID?!" to push them to switching to "Open Sores" instead. The GNU people probably winced that morning and wondered what the idiot was doing. Then Eric started getting complaints from fellow hackers and Bruce Perens.
At 3am fielding a C:\ of programmer complaints, Eric's followers probably started yelling at him "I'M SO SICK AND TIRED OF YOUR ABUSE ON THIS PROJECT - HERE, TAKE MY JOB, PLEASE!!" for being such a madman. Eric finally exploded and yelled "ALL RIGHT! This code doesn't compile! Stop production!!!" Definately a guy you don't want to code for.
- A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Something that didn't relate to the story I posted but keeps striking me with every new hardware release of Apple...
This 'excuse' of supplier problems resulting in inability to feed our consumer pipeline is, at this stage, plain BS. Apple has taken this 'excuse' as the mantra for its inability to supply any new model released. G4 CPUs, ATI chips in imacs.. this goes back before the friggin' original PPC 601 boxes.
We (myself included) are so intent on ripping software companies like Microsoft et al for rushing a product to market before all the bugs have been worked out. I feel Apple is guilty of the same thing on the hardware front; take a brand new technology or component with little or no time of release, build a wondrous system around it, then lament to the public willing to buy initial units "oh, sorry, $MFG can't make @COMPONENT fast enough so we can only send 3-4 per store for the first few months."
I could feel for Apple had this not been happening for YEARS. Apple has no one to blame for its slow return to profitability but itself. The fact they fail to learn from their past is quite pathetic. This entire debacle could have been avoided if Apple would have taken a little more time (2-3 months) to ensure Motorola had ample supply of chips and they worked as desired. This would have dug into the holiday sales tatget.. but again, after years of this experience it should be anticipated. The erratra flaw could have happened with virtually no end-user impact. And the busisness world wouldn't be pointing fingers and laughing, the customers woulnd't be frustrated with yet another appearance of Big Company Which Gives No Crap About Customers.
(For the record, I love Macs.. I still think they are excellent hardware even if hamstrung by the OS[another broken promise].. but the Mac I have is an SE/30 because I'm still waiting [praying?] for Apple to get its collective head out of its ass and do a few more things right. Until then, it's their own damn fault for not receiving my hard-earned $$$)
-fester
-'fester
Well, your university discount certainly makes it much cheaper, but sadly that's not something anyone not in the university can legally claim.
However, it's true that we folks who live in massive urban areas tend to take our conveniences for granted. Within an hour's drive, I have at least two CompUSAs and two - no, three - Fry's electronics outlets.
However, that's still no reason to take Apple's lousy non-student pricing. There are any number of fine online Mac retailers, and they all comfortably undercut Apple.
D
----
Television is reality. I saw that on T.V. He must be just like that.
I have been using macs for about a decade, since my parents got a Mac ][cx. I've been using only macs at home, but have used windows a lot in school and jobs. I am the current (very happy) owner of a PowerMac Blue & White G3 and I own stock in Apple. As soon as I heard what they had done, I immediately wrote a letter to leadership@apple.com (the suggestion box) and told them that if they didn't fix this action towards the people who had their orders cancelled, I was going to sell all my stock and my next computer would be a wintel. Fortunately, the next morning I read that Apple had posted a note on their site stating that they had thought it through for the night and decided to honor the orders. Apparently, I hadn't been the only one to complain.
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
And truthfully, before the iMac, what was the last Apple commerical you had seen?
PowerBook 5300.
They were all over that summer, with Mission:Impossible and Independence Day.
'Course, the 5300's didn't sell too well, and were a bit over priced.
I always maintained that Apple's main problem was that they didn't advertise enough, especially when their great PPC machines like the 7600, 8600. 9600 series came out.
I was glad to see Apple back on TV.
Let's face it, how many of those goddamn "Intel : bing bing bing bing" ads do we hear everyday??!
PPoE
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Apple has no one to blame for its slow return to profitability but itself.
Eh?
Gil Amelio was officiallly kicked out of the CEO slot on July 9, 1997. (Jobs took over)
On January 14, 1998, Apple announced its first profitable quarter ($45 million) in what seemed like forever.
Sure was slow. Took Jobs a good... what... SIX months?
- Scott
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Scott Stevenson
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Several online retailers have stock of the G4s including:
Outpost.com
MacMall.com
MacWarehou se.com
-- and there are others I'm sure . . .
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
I'll be amazed to see what kind of FUD the Mac-fanatics come up with to make this whole flimflam excusable.
How about something as simple as "ZDNet is wrong"?
As for FUD, it's only coming in one direction for this story. Did anyone actually research this before commenting on it?
- Scott
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Scott Stevenson
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
"raise prices or downgrade speeds on the 450 and 400 Mhz models?"
Uh well no. They DID raise the prices on the 400 mhz model but they raised the specs too. Unless of course you consider going from a PCI to a 2x AGP video card a downgrade. Or a 50% faster memory controller, or.... Basically they when from a modified G3 mboard to the same mboard used by the 450 mhz model.
Is it me or wouldn't it be a good thing to simply wait for a formal Apple announcement as to their decision.
/. most of the post I've read in this post would not have been made. There's no reason to give more credibility to ZDNet because they're talking about Apple and citing an unnamed source then if they had been talking about the latest Kernel upgrade and quoting also an unnamed source.
Moreover, if a message on ZDNet had been posted about anything of usual interest to
Anyways, www.macintouch.com seems to offer an interesting spin on the ZDNet story; one which makes more sense and one which satisfies my curiosity until the next press release from Apple.
it's really depressing. They've done so well for the last couple years. Articulating a clear product strategy, desiging good products that work, and delivering a simple but complete product line. Now it seems like Apple's old style of doing business is rearing it's ugly head. Granted it's an odd situation, almost an entirely new product line (ibook, G4, new imacs) with extremely strong demand, and serious inventory problems, mostly due to global shortages resulting from the taiwaneese earthquake. However, the problems with Motorola and the G4 are serious for Apple and they're probably scrambling to figure out how to avoid crippling themselves with a high-end machine that they can't deliver until January.
They should have just taken the hit and said the 500Mhz G4's will be avail in January, and ship the 450 and 400 as expected. If they could deliver the ibooks, new imacs and G4's for christmas, then at least they'd stay profitable for the quarter. Now it looks like they've generated so much bad press and customer discontent that they may not be able to maintain the sales volume that they've enjoyed with the imac and the G3's.
So it looks like shorting aapl through christmas is the move. They're stock has already lost plenty of value though, so who knows how it will move now.
-earl
I agree 5 down moderations in 24 hours is kind of steep and the moderation is pretty biased when you say something negative about GPL. What if 5 stories on Linux video editing get posted on 24 hours? Not many positive words to say on that. Video editing software takes a lot of code and Linux enthusiasts don't like large programs so you don't see it.
See subject line
...I bet one of my die-hard mac fanatic friends..that his G4 would show up MUCH later than whatever Apple told him....if it comes before november 10th I owe him a soda...10th-14th nothing happens...after the 14th he owes me a soda...I KNEW that something would go wrong and I'd win my bet..(which we placed about 5 days ago).
I mean an underdog. That fact and a lower price pulled the frist revisions of AMD's K6 chips through despite poor availability and poor performance (in some aspects). Same thing with Apple.
Blar.
Is that one of the Pentiums with the arithmetic bug?
Nope.
How did you get treated on that?
Pretty good I think.
Are you running Windows 98 Special Edition, or the long-lasting W2K beta? How were you treated on that?
Pardon? I'm running Linux silly, (psst. This is Slashdot)
I don't understand your argument. If i pre-ordered a machine, be it G4 or a Pentium, and I was treated the way that Apple is now treating people I would seriously think about jumping ship and joing the competitor. My computer AFAIK is not affected by any current Manufacturer defects, etc, but if it was I sure as hell would be wary of purchasing another machine from the same vendor.
Plus, Mac users are overwhelmingly happy with their computers. That counts for a lot.
Do you have any proof to back that one up? I'm guessing not. The statement is so vague as to be devoid of meaning. Mac users (who, all of them? ) are happier with their computers (than who? Toaster owners? Horseback riders?)
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to aggrivate you or start a holy war. I really think Macintosh is a good company and in the very least a competitor to MS. I just think that corporations in general need to realize that people will only stand for so much before they join the enemy's ranks.
I write this from my G3 PowerBook and although I love the simplicity and integration of the product, I've just about had enough. I stuck with this company through thin... now all they want to do is ttick it to us in the "thick". The G4 rom "patch", raising prices on slower machines, not to mention I have this powerbook with no upgrade path at all due to the rom on the daughter cards. Bastards. Apple is pissing off the core and we WILL go away. At this point I don't care.
You're just so damned eager to watch Apple's stock fail, aren't you? You disgust me.
They lost a major class action lawsuit for using used parts in their system and they never have recovered from it. I sense a lawsuit could errupt if Apple doesnt do the right thing.
"A: Have more than one chip supplier. If Intel suddenly announced that they wouldn't have any X MHZs chips as soon as they said, and waited so long to tell anybody that it was going to have a major impact on OEMs, said OEMs would promptly start ordering AMD chips at X MHZs."
Which is exactly what Apple is doing--they've put in an order with IBM to start supplying G4s by the end of the year. Two suppliers, no waiting!
Looks like it was only funny the first time.
How about the fact that most people don't use it?
Just when I was starting to have some respect for apple...
:( Silly me for ever thinking otherwise...
Making decent computer products for the average person who doesn't know much about computers is A Good Thing. Then something like this happens, and you come back down to earth and realize they're just another corporation out to make boatloads of money
This was probably said in the inital cancellation article, but isn't this false advertising? If I was a lawyer I'd be writing up some documents for a class action suit right now.
Personally I'd rank this twords the top of the dumbest marketing moves in the computer industry's history. If I were to rank all computer companies on some scale measuring "morals", this would shoot apple down twords hell right along with our other favorite company.
Maybe that view isn't fair though. If any other company had the clout of apple or microsoft, they'd be doing the same type of things that say "f#@% you" to the consumer (Indeed, quite a few do). It's the fault of society for allowing things to be run like they are. So when I see companies like netscape working on the gov't side in the anti-trust case, I don't have any more respect for them. If the roles were reversed, netscape would be no different than microsoft.