Since when do experimental aircraft ever perform flawlessly? The Osprey has had several spectacular failures over the course of its development, but that doesn't mean the finished product is a spectacular failure.
Sadly, I think that, like the M16, the Osprey will have to live down the derision and scorn it earned in its early years through the rest of its operational life.
Wait... Halo 3 had a 'so-so' singleplayer mode? Are we even playing the same game?
Just what are you comparing Halo 3's singleplayer campaign to? Half life's? [Which is one of the best FPS's in the genre.] Quake? Unreal? [I don't think those two even had single player campaigns.] Doom? [You best be joking if you honestly think ANY of the Doom's had a better singleplayer than Halo 3.] Maybe FEAR?
Mind letting us know just where Halo went wrong and your ultimate singleplayer FPS went right? Obviously giant levels, lots of enemies, seamless indoor and outdoor battles, lots of vehicles and weapons, good cutscenes, storyline, fantastic AI [except when driving], and singleplayer online co-op don't do it for you. Maybe they should have shipped a cake with the game?
Yeah, it's pretty obvious I'm a fan of Halo, but when you come out and say the campaign is 'so-so' and then give nothing to even support that... Well, it'd be like me saying "Half-Life 2's campaign is so-so. I mean, we all know that, I shouldn't have to go into details." Which, I'd probably get modded troll for.
I'll let you know what I thought sucked about Halo 3's campaign:
- Most of the game has you running through the same locations over and over again. You fight your way through Voi's port in "The Storm" fighting against the Covenant, and then you do it again in the next level, but in reverse, and against the Flood. It's almost like a theme with the series. In short: Repetitive levels.
- The messages from Cortana during gameplay, while at appropriate lulls in combat, are quite truly annoying as they cover your entire screen and slow your movement to a crawl.
- The Marine AI is really terrible at throwing grenades and driving.
- The campaign was too short. Certainly it was fun to play through it, but finishing the game on heroic in under 8 hours just seems too quick for me. Another couple of levels would have helped prolong the enjoyment. As well as help diversify the environments found in-game.
On the other hand, the things I've found enjoyable in singleplayer, are just too long to list. Yesterday, me and my friends were doing this. Today, we're going to play with a section of "The Covenant" where warthogs driven inside an area they're not supposed to go will flip upside down and land on the ceiling when you try to drive them.
What was it with MasterChef and the hologram? Did someone kidnap her or something? What was the Flood again? When you're making a sequel, you have to learn to balance the story for both new and old players. In the case of Halo 3, Bungie spent more of the game's storytelling furthering the plot that was set up in previous games, than just rehashing and going over said plot all over again.
An exposition on the nature of the Flood when you are introduced to them would have eaten up time story-wise, as well as development-wise. Clearly Bungie figured that since both Halo 1 and Halo 2 tell you so much about the Flood, that it wasn't necessary in Halo 3.
You are essentially complaining about reading the last Lord of the Rings book, and not understanding who this Smeagol character is, why he wants The Ring, why The Ring is even important, how the fellowship met each other, etc. etc.
You wouldn't read the last Lord of the Rings book first, so you really shouldn't expect to understand the full story in Halo from playing the last game, either. Read a synopsis on the plot from the first two games, if you want to fully understand the plot and storyline in Halo 3. If the storyline doesn't matter that much to you - then why even complain about it?
Before you go on ranting about the movie or the director, you should get some facts in there. Peter Jackson isn't directing this. Neill Blomkamp is. He already directed a low budget live-action sequence, [Which you can watch here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUcreY0X33k and I think he might really be able to pull off a Halo movie.
"Men, we have led these dumb bugs out to the middle of no-where to keep them from gettin' their filthy claws on Earth. But, we stumbled onto something they're so hot for, that they're scrambling over each other to get it. Well, I don't care if its God's own anti-son-of-a-bitch machine or a giant hula hoop, we're not going to let them have it! What we will let them have is a belly full of lead and a pool of their own blood to drown in! Am I right, Marines?" - Sergeant Avery J. Johnson Just thought it was fitting that you mention a giant hula hoop in Uwe Boll's adaptation.:P
Nothing prevents a gun from having the same lore as magical swords. Just think to real life: Saddam Hussein's rifle, Hitler's pistol, etc. etc. There's no magic in reality, but the story behind these objects is certainly very interesting!
There is no reason you can't have sci-fi with the same kind of lore behind objects. [Heck, even in KOTOR 1 and 2 - the Ebon Hawk had it's story built up, and that history stuck around for the second game.]
Well yes, actually. I understand that many people in other parts of the world accept that their politicians take bribes to pass laws, but I'm glad that here in Canada we apparently do not tolerate it, and remove these people from power. That's how a government should be run.
In my honest opinion, it's when you start expecting politicians to always act like corrupt douchebags, that you will tend to get and keep corrupt douchebags as politicians - because it becomes accepted. Instead of an uproar over corrupt individuals, people just say 'meh, they're all like that'. Personally, I think politicians ought to be held to the same standards as the rest of us, and when they fuck up, they should face the consequences.
No, it doesn't have four-way splitscreen. You can have two way horizontal splitscreen, but that's it. [not sure about two-way vertical] I'm pretty sure it's a technical problem with the HUD not displaying well for the many, many different kinds of TV's out there when you do 4 way splitscreen, but you'd have to ask an engineer at Bungie. I remembered they were asked a question about this in a weekly update, but unfortunately I haven't been able to find it.
That might be because...
on
Halo 3 Review
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· Score: 1
Heh, Online Co-op's been in the game since at least July 31st, according to this article: http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/01/1611238
The reason no one is saying anything about co-op not being there, is because it IS there.
This is a fuel-air bomb. It would be physically almost impossible for it to have the raw destructive power of the high explosives in the MOAB. You seem to be under some kind of misconception here. The MOAB is not a conventional high explosive, it is a Thermobaric weapon, or in other words, a Fuel Air Bomb. [Hell, even the name itself spells it out for you: Massive Ordnance Air Blast] The FOAB and MOAB work under exactly the same principles: Namely, the first detonation spreads the fuel over a large area, and then the second detonation ignites all that fuel, causing a massive shockwave.
No, silly. That's exactly what Canada does right. Sometimes, the less laws being passed, the better. Especially in this day and age where taking away civil rights seems to be the 'hip' thing for politicians to do.
The answer is not to just go "Oh sure Apple, we'll just take these parking meters down because you asked us with bucketfuls of cash." Those meters are there for a reason, specifically: to cut down on people parking downtown. If the city government starts taking in cash for the removal of these meters, what do you think will happen to downtown parking?
I would really rather they didn't do that. Have you ever seen how fanboys argue with each other on forums about how this game sucks, and that game rules? I quite honestly think videogames would kill the reputation of the Nebula and Hugo awards. There's incredible differences between a Tolkien fanboy arguing with an 'R. R. Martin fanboy over literary elements, and a Halo fanboy arguing with a Half-Life fanboy over gameplay elements. [I'm sure you can imagine how those two conversations would go.]
Wouldn't video games be the obvious cure to TV induced ADD? Most video games require hours of dedication and concentration to finish. I suppose those with ADD will be more attracted to ADD games (almost anything on the wii right now). So in the interest of public health we should promote the playing videos games that aren't shitty mini game collections.
Save a mind, ban wario ware. This could've been a good post, if it weren't for the trolling. I'm astounded you were modded insightful, actually. This is not the place to rant about your perceived problems with a videogame console. Grow up.
The key to me is that the person whose rights were violated almost deliberately allowed them to be violated. At every step he knew how they were going to react, and seemed contented when they did.
Do we really live in a society that coddles people like this? I hate Circuit City employees and cops as much as the next Slashdotter, but the deliberate disrespect this man displayed to them *just to prove he could* disgusts me. We live in a society of freedom and rights, but we should live in a society of harmony and forgiveness too.
And now, this guy is going to take a bunch of people to court at the cost of the taxpayer - and for what? To prove he could? My guess is no, he's in it for the money, and he's drumming up support from slashdotters/diggers/bloggers for his own benefit. Do we really live in a society that coddles people like this? Afraid to defend themselves and their rights from exploitation by others, willing to let those very rights be trampled in the name of 'harmony and forgiveness'? I'm sure the government will show a lot of 'harmony and forgiveness' when they come to bust you or me on trumped up 'suspicion of being a terrorist' charges.
His rights were violated, but that doesn't matter to you, because you think he's an ass/in it for the money. I think you missed the part where HIS RIGHTS WERE VIOLATED. Tell me, if your rights are being violated, do you still live in a 'society of freedom and rights'? The next time a police officer arrests you for not having a drivers license while walking to the corner store for groceries, you keep this in mind. Suing the police is just a grab for money, and costs the law-abiding taxpayers money, you should be ashamed for even considering it.
If I owned Six Apart, I'd have the same policy simply to cover my ass. If I owned Six Apart, I think I'd just move the company/servers to a different country.
"Linux: The only operating system the NSA doesn't 0wn." I can already see average joe going "What, you mean you're denying the NSA access to your computer!? Are you a criminal or something? Screw that, I want to help those guys, I'll stick with Windows."
All those spy movies Hollywood pumps out are like free PR for those guys.:(
Look, Bungie has basically said they're not making another Halo game. If there's ever going to be a Halo 4, [and you can bet there will be.] It will be outsourced to a different company. The Bungie guys are pretty much done with Halo for now: There's an upcoming Halo game they're working on with Peter Jackson, and an unannounced game in the pre-development stages, which most likely is not Halo related. And now for something completely different...
WTF? You need an advanced data extraction tool to tell you that there aren't enough Warthogs for the player to use? Give me a break. This is what play testing is for, not to mention a little addition and subtraction. I think they are making this Pagulayan guy out like he is going to save the game from bad level design by making a bunch of graphs and charts. A lot of the issues he discovers with his data analysis could be easily solved by common sense. You think that's common sense? You think their data mining and analysis is worthless? Well, you'd be wrong. How do you think they knew players were walking through that part of the map instead of driving? Some kind of data analysis needs to be done, or did you think Bungie is made of psychics who can read minds and predict the future? I sure am glad Cornflake917 is there to put these guys in their place, I mean, what the hell were they thinking!? Stupid data analysis. You could totally do better than these chumps.
All indications point to one of the best games every made. All reviews point to one of the best games ever made. Quite honestly, I don't believe them. When you start throwing around buzz words like "Epic storyline, Most revolutionary FPS to hit the genre" it tells me the game is being overhyped. I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed with the game. I played the demo on the xbox, and it really doesn't do much for me. It's atmospheric, it looks good, but the gameplay itself is just... lacking. Your options for killing things are various magic spells, and shootan guns. There isn't really a lot of variance there to shake things up.
Other FPS games out right now just totally trump Bioshock, in my opinion. Stalker has fantastic atmosphere, with a more gritty, realistic twist to the weapons, and throws in some light RPG elements to shake things up. Quake Wars has excellent graphics with vehicular and squad-based gameplay, it's like Battlefield 2142 done right. Halo 3 throws in fantastic variation between the different weapons, and has equipment that fundamentally change the way firefights play out.
These games compared to Bioshock just make Bioshock seem like an old FPS with new paint. Which I suppose it is, considering how many people point out that it's very much like System Shock 2.
Sounds a little like this guy's been buying into "Intelligent" design a little too much... Or he's a proponent of the Panspermia theory. Which would make sense, considering how his research would apply to it.
It's 90% paper, so from the sounds of it, it'll biodegrade pretty much like paper. Which doesn't seem so great if you want to start putting it in cars or aeroplanes. I can't help but be reminded of Larry Niven's Ringworld, where a bacteria [I think it was a bacteria] evolved to consume certain high-tech gear. So not only will our batteries have the lifetime of regular paper, but things that eat regular paper will be able to eat our batteries too.
And yet, it's a bit sad to think that, since the 70's, all we've managed to do is land a couple more landers on mars.
20, almost 30 years of no significant space achievements.:(
Oh sure, there's a couple of impressive things that have been done with probes. Crashing them into asteroids, flinging them out towards Pluto, but where are the asteroid mines and space colonies, the moonbases and He3 refining facilities, or even an interstellar probe to the nearest star system?
He put his ship right next to the hanger doors creating as much as an airtight seal he could then he opened the door and all the air left his ship and filled the hanger area giving some pressure for him so his head doesn't explode but the air was rapidly thinning because it wasn't completly air tight so he only had a couple of seconds to get in. Heads do not explode in a vacuum. The only thing that does any 'exploding' are your lungs, as the air inside them tries to rush out of your body.
The things this guy says on his website don't even make sense!
The fact that the Milky Way is seen in the sky at an angle has always puzzled astronomers. If we originated from the Milky Way, we ought to be oriented to the galaxy's ecliptic, with the planets aligned around our Sun in much the same angle as our Sun aligns with the Milky Way. If our sun is from the Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy, which is merging almost vertically with the Milky Way, you'd kinda assume then, that our orbit would be more 'galactic up-down' than the actual full orbit it has in the galactic plane. But I couldn't possibly explain it better than this guy:
http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2007/06/27/is-t he-sun-from-another-galaxy/
What if we're the first? I mean, someone's gotta be the first. What if that's us? It would certainly explain why we haven't seen anyone else out there yet.
One of the best parts of the gameplay of Oblivion was the thief skills. Any house you want you can pick the lock, steal goods and sell them to fences. Only the best thieves get access to the best fences. There's even a mythology around it: the mysterious Gray Fox!
Compare this to 99% of online games where thieves are universally hated on. The sneak skills don't work. The pickpocket skills only work on poor NPCs and mobs. Lock picking is virtually non-existent.
Virtual world designers hate thieves because they don't play the game in straight lines. They're not trying to get more kit or grind up levels. They're more like hackers, trying to find the interesting nooks and crannies of the game. Using the thief skills you can finish every mission in Oblivion almost without killing a single monster. Fine for a single player game, but how do you balance such awesome skills in a competitive online world? On the flipside, the lockpicking mechanism in Oblivion was an absolutely terrible implementation for an RPG, due to the fact that it required player input to be done successfully, rather than relying on any stats. It doesn't matter if you're maxed out in lockpicking, if you're really terrible at the lockpicking mini-game, you won't even be able to open the simplest locks, [although you can have the game do it for you.] and if you're really good at it, then a level 100 lock isn't going to stop you, even at level 1.
But nevermind that, let's focus on this: "Virtual world designers hate thieves because they don't play the game in straight lines. They're not trying to get more kit or grind up levels. They're more like hackers, trying to find the interesting nooks and crannies of the game. Using the thief skills you can finish every mission in Oblivion almost without killing a single monster." it really must be pointed out, that with Oblivion's skill system, it doesn't matter what class you are, you can do anything you want. [Join the mages guild and become guild master as a fighter class, without knowing *ANY* spells? Entirely possible!] So with the way the game works, what you just said holds true for every single class in the game. Thieves aren't any better implemented in Oblivion than fighters and mages are, because ultimately, there is only one class.
Slashdot Mirror
Since when do experimental aircraft ever perform flawlessly? The Osprey has had several spectacular failures over the course of its development, but that doesn't mean the finished product is a spectacular failure.
Sadly, I think that, like the M16, the Osprey will have to live down the derision and scorn it earned in its early years through the rest of its operational life.
Wait... Halo 3 had a 'so-so' singleplayer mode? Are we even playing the same game?
Just what are you comparing Halo 3's singleplayer campaign to? Half life's? [Which is one of the best FPS's in the genre.] Quake? Unreal? [I don't think those two even had single player campaigns.] Doom? [You best be joking if you honestly think ANY of the Doom's had a better singleplayer than Halo 3.] Maybe FEAR?
Mind letting us know just where Halo went wrong and your ultimate singleplayer FPS went right? Obviously giant levels, lots of enemies, seamless indoor and outdoor battles, lots of vehicles and weapons, good cutscenes, storyline, fantastic AI [except when driving], and singleplayer online co-op don't do it for you. Maybe they should have shipped a cake with the game?
Yeah, it's pretty obvious I'm a fan of Halo, but when you come out and say the campaign is 'so-so' and then give nothing to even support that... Well, it'd be like me saying "Half-Life 2's campaign is so-so. I mean, we all know that, I shouldn't have to go into details." Which, I'd probably get modded troll for.
I'll let you know what I thought sucked about Halo 3's campaign:
- Most of the game has you running through the same locations over and over again. You fight your way through Voi's port in "The Storm" fighting against the Covenant, and then you do it again in the next level, but in reverse, and against the Flood. It's almost like a theme with the series. In short: Repetitive levels.
- The messages from Cortana during gameplay, while at appropriate lulls in combat, are quite truly annoying as they cover your entire screen and slow your movement to a crawl.
- The Marine AI is really terrible at throwing grenades and driving.
- The campaign was too short. Certainly it was fun to play through it, but finishing the game on heroic in under 8 hours just seems too quick for me. Another couple of levels would have helped prolong the enjoyment. As well as help diversify the environments found in-game.
On the other hand, the things I've found enjoyable in singleplayer, are just too long to list. Yesterday, me and my friends were doing this. Today, we're going to play with a section of "The Covenant" where warthogs driven inside an area they're not supposed to go will flip upside down and land on the ceiling when you try to drive them.
An exposition on the nature of the Flood when you are introduced to them would have eaten up time story-wise, as well as development-wise. Clearly Bungie figured that since both Halo 1 and Halo 2 tell you so much about the Flood, that it wasn't necessary in Halo 3.
You are essentially complaining about reading the last Lord of the Rings book, and not understanding who this Smeagol character is, why he wants The Ring, why The Ring is even important, how the fellowship met each other, etc. etc.
You wouldn't read the last Lord of the Rings book first, so you really shouldn't expect to understand the full story in Halo from playing the last game, either. Read a synopsis on the plot from the first two games, if you want to fully understand the plot and storyline in Halo 3. If the storyline doesn't matter that much to you - then why even complain about it?
Before you go on ranting about the movie or the director, you should get some facts in there. Peter Jackson isn't directing this. Neill Blomkamp is. He already directed a low budget live-action sequence, [Which you can watch here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUcreY0X33k and I think he might really be able to pull off a Halo movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJe6CuVXLE8
Nothing prevents a gun from having the same lore as magical swords. Just think to real life: Saddam Hussein's rifle, Hitler's pistol, etc. etc. There's no magic in reality, but the story behind these objects is certainly very interesting!
There is no reason you can't have sci-fi with the same kind of lore behind objects. [Heck, even in KOTOR 1 and 2 - the Ebon Hawk had it's story built up, and that history stuck around for the second game.]
Well yes, actually. I understand that many people in other parts of the world accept that their politicians take bribes to pass laws, but I'm glad that here in Canada we apparently do not tolerate it, and remove these people from power. That's how a government should be run.
In my honest opinion, it's when you start expecting politicians to always act like corrupt douchebags, that you will tend to get and keep corrupt douchebags as politicians - because it becomes accepted. Instead of an uproar over corrupt individuals, people just say 'meh, they're all like that'. Personally, I think politicians ought to be held to the same standards as the rest of us, and when they fuck up, they should face the consequences.
No, it doesn't have four-way splitscreen. You can have two way horizontal splitscreen, but that's it. [not sure about two-way vertical] I'm pretty sure it's a technical problem with the HUD not displaying well for the many, many different kinds of TV's out there when you do 4 way splitscreen, but you'd have to ask an engineer at Bungie. I remembered they were asked a question about this in a weekly update, but unfortunately I haven't been able to find it.
Heh, Online Co-op's been in the game since at least July 31st, according to this article: http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/01/1611238 The reason no one is saying anything about co-op not being there, is because it IS there.
No, silly. That's exactly what Canada does right. Sometimes, the less laws being passed, the better. Especially in this day and age where taking away civil rights seems to be the 'hip' thing for politicians to do.
The answer is not to just go "Oh sure Apple, we'll just take these parking meters down because you asked us with bucketfuls of cash." Those meters are there for a reason, specifically: to cut down on people parking downtown. If the city government starts taking in cash for the removal of these meters, what do you think will happen to downtown parking?
I would really rather they didn't do that. Have you ever seen how fanboys argue with each other on forums about how this game sucks, and that game rules? I quite honestly think videogames would kill the reputation of the Nebula and Hugo awards. There's incredible differences between a Tolkien fanboy arguing with an 'R. R. Martin fanboy over literary elements, and a Halo fanboy arguing with a Half-Life fanboy over gameplay elements. [I'm sure you can imagine how those two conversations would go.]
Save a mind, ban wario ware. This could've been a good post, if it weren't for the trolling. I'm astounded you were modded insightful, actually. This is not the place to rant about your perceived problems with a videogame console. Grow up.
Do we really live in a society that coddles people like this? I hate Circuit City employees and cops as much as the next Slashdotter, but the deliberate disrespect this man displayed to them *just to prove he could* disgusts me. We live in a society of freedom and rights, but we should live in a society of harmony and forgiveness too.
And now, this guy is going to take a bunch of people to court at the cost of the taxpayer - and for what? To prove he could? My guess is no, he's in it for the money, and he's drumming up support from slashdotters/diggers/bloggers for his own benefit. Do we really live in a society that coddles people like this? Afraid to defend themselves and their rights from exploitation by others, willing to let those very rights be trampled in the name of 'harmony and forgiveness'? I'm sure the government will show a lot of 'harmony and forgiveness' when they come to bust you or me on trumped up 'suspicion of being a terrorist' charges.
His rights were violated, but that doesn't matter to you, because you think he's an ass/in it for the money. I think you missed the part where HIS RIGHTS WERE VIOLATED. Tell me, if your rights are being violated, do you still live in a 'society of freedom and rights'? The next time a police officer arrests you for not having a drivers license while walking to the corner store for groceries, you keep this in mind. Suing the police is just a grab for money, and costs the law-abiding taxpayers money, you should be ashamed for even considering it.
All those spy movies Hollywood pumps out are like free PR for those guys.
Other FPS games out right now just totally trump Bioshock, in my opinion. Stalker has fantastic atmosphere, with a more gritty, realistic twist to the weapons, and throws in some light RPG elements to shake things up. Quake Wars has excellent graphics with vehicular and squad-based gameplay, it's like Battlefield 2142 done right. Halo 3 throws in fantastic variation between the different weapons, and has equipment that fundamentally change the way firefights play out.
These games compared to Bioshock just make Bioshock seem like an old FPS with new paint. Which I suppose it is, considering how many people point out that it's very much like System Shock 2.
It's 90% paper, so from the sounds of it, it'll biodegrade pretty much like paper. Which doesn't seem so great if you want to start putting it in cars or aeroplanes. I can't help but be reminded of Larry Niven's Ringworld, where a bacteria [I think it was a bacteria] evolved to consume certain high-tech gear. So not only will our batteries have the lifetime of regular paper, but things that eat regular paper will be able to eat our batteries too.
And yet, it's a bit sad to think that, since the 70's, all we've managed to do is land a couple more landers on mars.
:(
20, almost 30 years of no significant space achievements.
Oh sure, there's a couple of impressive things that have been done with probes. Crashing them into asteroids, flinging them out towards Pluto, but where are the asteroid mines and space colonies, the moonbases and He3 refining facilities, or even an interstellar probe to the nearest star system?
What if we're the first? I mean, someone's gotta be the first. What if that's us? It would certainly explain why we haven't seen anyone else out there yet.
Compare this to 99% of online games where thieves are universally hated on. The sneak skills don't work. The pickpocket skills only work on poor NPCs and mobs. Lock picking is virtually non-existent.
Virtual world designers hate thieves because they don't play the game in straight lines. They're not trying to get more kit or grind up levels. They're more like hackers, trying to find the interesting nooks and crannies of the game. Using the thief skills you can finish every mission in Oblivion almost without killing a single monster. Fine for a single player game, but how do you balance such awesome skills in a competitive online world? On the flipside, the lockpicking mechanism in Oblivion was an absolutely terrible implementation for an RPG, due to the fact that it required player input to be done successfully, rather than relying on any stats. It doesn't matter if you're maxed out in lockpicking, if you're really terrible at the lockpicking mini-game, you won't even be able to open the simplest locks, [although you can have the game do it for you.] and if you're really good at it, then a level 100 lock isn't going to stop you, even at level 1.
But nevermind that, let's focus on this: "Virtual world designers hate thieves because they don't play the game in straight lines. They're not trying to get more kit or grind up levels. They're more like hackers, trying to find the interesting nooks and crannies of the game. Using the thief skills you can finish every mission in Oblivion almost without killing a single monster." it really must be pointed out, that with Oblivion's skill system, it doesn't matter what class you are, you can do anything you want. [Join the mages guild and become guild master as a fighter class, without knowing *ANY* spells? Entirely possible!] So with the way the game works, what you just said holds true for every single class in the game. Thieves aren't any better implemented in Oblivion than fighters and mages are, because ultimately, there is only one class.