Of course thats at the Apple DRM-free inflated price. Sorry, I will not reward a company for screwing people over in the first place and then having to pay extra to do what I want with something I own.
If you RTFA, ATI has a much lower percentage. Yeah, 5 or 6 years ago ATI drivers sucked. But they are really good now and now the linux ones are getting open sourced. You talking about Byte Magazine only shows how long it has been since you used an ATI product.
Except consoles are becoming more like PC's. Don't most of the consoles have system updates now that are no different than updating video card drivers?
Trademark laws apply to domains. You can get it back if you have your site trademarked. I'm tired of hearing people complain about losing their domains. You get reminder emails to renew it. You have no excuses unless you mess up. If you can't afford to renew then you lose it. Its just like a house. If you foreclose on your house, do you expect nobody else to buy it and if somebody does buy it, do you complain that its not fair?
I can only think of one brand that would work at Walmart. ECS. People know ECS sucks and they still buy it because its cheap. Just like everything else at Walmart.
I would tend to agree with you in the past but now even Xbox 360 games are buggy and I'm sure PS3 games will be too. Why? Games are getting very complicated and are released too early. Plus now most consoles will have hard drives and the developers can say the same thing as they do on PC. We'll release a patch later to fix it.
So you think you are going to be able to put a new Intel Conroe chip in your current motherboard? You hear that? That's Intel laughing all the way to the bank.
Monster cables are the biggest rip off. Same quality at 3 or 4 times the price. They suck as a company too. They like to sue people who use the monster name wrong. Monoprice.com is awesome.
FB-DIMM are only for expensive servers right now. Why would they release it for consumers when they can charge business' a huge amount for the latest technology? Some things never change.
Why do people keep quoting this horrible article? Gamecube, PS2, and Xbox all lost money on system sales when they first came out. But when you make something for 5 years, costs tend to go down. Read the financial reports from these companies not some website with no real hard facts.
Oh, yeah, a significant portion of those PS2s are still sitting at stores waiting to be bought. Right. Like retailers would have 10 million units sitting on shelves and still be asking for more.
Just pointing out your error that you made it look like sold units (a classic Sony trick).
Good question, you have any actual numbers? I didn't think so.
So Sony is going to release numbers that look bad? There were enough for a couple class action lawsuits.
Constrained by production? I seem to recall barely one-fifth of the 360s in Japan selling. It's only on pace to sell 30-50 million if it keeps selling at the same rate it has been for the entirety of its life. Looking at opening weekends, the PS2 was "on a pace" to sell 387,400,000 in the US and Japan alone. Of course, this is silly, because sales trail off considerably after initial release, and continue to slow (with some ups and downs). Judging by things selling about 1/4 of the "on a pace" rate, the 360 is more likely to sell about 10 million units in a 5-year period.
Hahaha. I seem to remember in the U.S. most of them were sold out. You must have missed people waiting in line for them or being sold for more than retail on Ebay. Kind of kills the 1/4 thing. I know you tired of waiting for Jak and Daxter 10 for PS3 but alot of Xbox 360's are going to be sold in the next year. All 3 next-gen systems are going to sell alot of units because they all have strong points.
The PlayStation 2 holds the record of fastest selling video game console ever, 100 million PlayStation 2 units were shipped in only five years and nine months, shattering the previous record of nine years and six months by the PlayStation. Ah, shipped...forgot to mention that. Plus, how many people had to buy another PS2 because of the disc read error? So Microsoft is on pace to sell 30 - 50 million units? And those estimates are constrained by production problems. Your right, that's a total failure.
Comparing Windows 95 Ati Drivers to Windows XP Nvidia Drivers is pretty funny. All drivers for Windows 95/98/ME weren't very stable becuase of the OS. Ever heard of WHQL test that Windows XP drivers get tested with to prove they are stable? My friends blah, blah, blah. Thank you for proving the myth correct.
I can tell you read the article. (it was about DVD performance) I can also tell you've owned recent ATI hardware too. I love the Nvidia drivers are better than ATI drivers myth.
They figured out how to make plastic lenses, tiny stepper motors, disc trays, plastic bezels, 20 gague steel boxes, ribbon cables, nylon worm gears, rubber belts, laser diodes and CMOS electronics 10 (or more) years ago, yes.
You forgot the whole sensitive blue laser that has to read the sensitive blue-ray disc. Didn't the first run of playstation 1's have to be flipped upside down to work right? And then the infamous playstation 2 disc read error. Sounds like they had some problems over the years with their drives.
Not personally, but I didn't spend $80,000 on an engineering degree for nothing, and you don't have to make 'em to know what goes inside of one.
I was waiting for that. I spent $80,000 to learn how to drink beer and BS. I bet you make a ton more money than me too. Thats what makes everything you say correct. News Flash! Merrill Lynch analyst went to a more expensive school and makes more money than you.
First of all, you've only seen me speculate up until now. No assumptions.
You assume your the smartest guy in the room. You try to pass opionion as fact. Sorry not buying it.
This is recently demonstrated by Microsoft's shareholders demanding dividends.
I was actually talking about Bill Gates' money not Microsoft's.
rational = you tell somebody something and they have to agree with you. It must suck to be schooled by a 12 year old.
Ok, your right. I bought a DVD writer for $40. How much of that does Sony get?
Smart business people under-estimate the number of sales they're going to have when they make that calculation.
And Sony fits in that category because their stock has been doing so well the last couple years.
What? So being objective is being a fanboy now. You don't know me, so you have no business making assumptions. The only reason I'm having this argument is that I'm sick of fanboys using this false argument to declare one gaming company or another dead.
All I read is assumptions and speculation from you. So yes you are just like all the people you hate.
If this were a thread about the Xbox 360, I'd have been making the same arguments. Microsoft won't be allowing themselves to take the big losses on the 360 that they did on the first Xbox. I'd bet money that they're only losing about $20 on the $299 version, and turning a healthy profit on the $399 version of the 360. The design of the 360 clearly shows that Microsoft has learned these lessons and knows how to make a profitable machine this time around.
Speculating again? Your really good at that. The thing with Microsoft is the world's richest person runs it and has a little loose change that he could lose. Sony's time is running out.
90%+ of the technology in next genereation optical drives is the same as what is in 52x CD-ROM drives that sell for $15 at retail.
So now you make CD-ROM drives too?
See, that's the trick. They figured out how to make the parts cheap ten years ago
They figured out how to make cheap Blu-ray Drives 10 years ago?
When's the last time you bought something that plays CDs? When you did, no matter what brand it was, you gave Sony money.
Probably 5 years ago. Ever heard of Itunes? The music and movie industry also has a piracy problem which sony has no solution for.
You're contradicting yourself. You say they sell enough games, but then you pull a situation that where they don't. Remember, I said to assume you were right. You're assuming that you're wrong.
You really seem to know what you are talking about so I just used your numbers. With my numbers they still lose money or break even on systems sales but your forgetting marketing and R+D costs again.
If the PS3 flops, the won't sell systems, so they won't lose much money. More realistically though, they'll sell systems for a profit, because that analyst is basing costs based on today's market, but Sony is making the parts themselves and will have figured out how to make the parts for much less by then. Remember that six months is a long time in the electronics business.
The PS3 won't fail because of fanboy's like you. More realistically they will lose money on systems because they are using Blu-ray drives. How many of those drives have you seen for sale? Zero. Do you think when they come out they are going to be cheap? That's a pretty big assumption that they will figure out how to make parts cheap in 6 months. Funny, Sony Earnings came out yesterday and they are down 46% from last year.
Speculation from an analyst is speculation from an analyst.
Same applies to slashdot wannabe's.
If you're only talking about at launch, then that's true. But why would a company tell people who think they're getting more than their money's worth that, in reality they aren't?
You're right. Stockholders would probably care though.
Time to come back to the real world here. What's the motivation? These companies are in this to turn a profit, not to win some fanboy flamewar.
So companies never lose money?
The average user only buys five or six new (I.E. not pre-owned) games over the life of a console.
So you've taken a survey of every user ever? I think it is probably closer to 10. The blade and razor theory applies because when the person gets done with a game they are probably going to buy another. How many people buy 5 games and then pack up the console and put it in the closet?
Don't forget that Sony also has a media business to keep them afloat. Plus, if you're right that would mean they succeeded with the PS2 without the help of their other divisions, so there's really no reason to assume they're in any trouble.
When is the last time you bought a Sony TV? VCR? DVD/CD Player? Monitor? Walkmen?
Please, describe for me a situation where you assume your analyst and commentary is right and Sony is in trouble financially from it.
Here's the math. System costs $500 to make. They sell it for $400. The person only buys 5 games. They make $25 to $50 on the games. That is a loss of $50 to $75. Plus Marketing costs and R+D costs.
Slashdot Mirror
"What has Nvidia got to do with it?"
Since Nvidia is AMD's only competition. Everything.
"Why do you mention the failings of another company to cover for AMD?"
If the other company sucks more, then it should be pointed out. The Nvidia driver myth is so outdated.
I hope you complained to Nvidia when they were burning cards up with their drivers.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/nvidia-pulls-196-75-driver-amid-reports-its-frying-graphics-car/
The months of testing a product goes through before it is released. Or are you saying Apple doesn't test it's products before they release it?
Eric Clapton
Do you even have to ask what's after Blu-ray? Super Blu-Ray.
Of course thats at the Apple DRM-free inflated price. Sorry, I will not reward a company for screwing people over in the first place and then having to pay extra to do what I want with something I own.
If you RTFA, ATI has a much lower percentage. Yeah, 5 or 6 years ago ATI drivers sucked. But they are really good now and now the linux ones are getting open sourced. You talking about Byte Magazine only shows how long it has been since you used an ATI product.
Except consoles are becoming more like PC's. Don't most of the consoles have system updates now that are no different than updating video card drivers?
Trademark laws apply to domains. You can get it back if you have your site trademarked. I'm tired of hearing people complain about losing their domains. You get reminder emails to renew it. You have no excuses unless you mess up. If you can't afford to renew then you lose it. Its just like a house. If you foreclose on your house, do you expect nobody else to buy it and if somebody does buy it, do you complain that its not fair?
I can only think of one brand that would work at Walmart. ECS. People know ECS sucks and they still buy it because its cheap. Just like everything else at Walmart.
I would tend to agree with you in the past but now even Xbox 360 games are buggy and I'm sure PS3 games will be too. Why? Games are getting very complicated and are released too early. Plus now most consoles will have hard drives and the developers can say the same thing as they do on PC. We'll release a patch later to fix it.
So you think you are going to be able to put a new Intel Conroe chip in your current motherboard? You hear that? That's Intel laughing all the way to the bank.
Monster cables are the biggest rip off. Same quality at 3 or 4 times the price. They suck as a company too. They like to sue people who use the monster name wrong. Monoprice.com is awesome.
FB-DIMM are only for expensive servers right now. Why would they release it for consumers when they can charge business' a huge amount for the latest technology? Some things never change.
Why do people keep quoting this horrible article? Gamecube, PS2, and Xbox all lost money on system sales when they first came out. But when you make something for 5 years, costs tend to go down. Read the financial reports from these companies not some website with no real hard facts.
Hahaha. I seem to remember in the U.S. most of them were sold out. You must have missed people waiting in line for them or being sold for more than retail on Ebay. Kind of kills the 1/4 thing. I know you tired of waiting for Jak and Daxter 10 for PS3 but alot of Xbox 360's are going to be sold in the next year. All 3 next-gen systems are going to sell alot of units because they all have strong points.
The PlayStation 2 holds the record of fastest selling video game console ever, 100 million PlayStation 2 units were shipped in only five years and nine months, shattering the previous record of nine years and six months by the PlayStation. Ah, shipped...forgot to mention that. Plus, how many people had to buy another PS2 because of the disc read error? So Microsoft is on pace to sell 30 - 50 million units? And those estimates are constrained by production problems. Your right, that's a total failure.
Comparing Windows 95 Ati Drivers to Windows XP Nvidia Drivers is pretty funny. All drivers for Windows 95/98/ME weren't very stable becuase of the OS. Ever heard of WHQL test that Windows XP drivers get tested with to prove they are stable? My friends blah, blah, blah. Thank you for proving the myth correct.
So you've installed and used the latest ATI linux drivers? That's what I thought.
I can tell you read the article. (it was about DVD performance) I can also tell you've owned recent ATI hardware too. I love the Nvidia drivers are better than ATI drivers myth.
Why is the theory of evolution taught as a fact?
Because it is observed, and the evidence for Common Descent is extraordinarily compelling, and the only remaining "alternative" amounts to magic.
A thoery taught as fact makes little sense. You defend it by saying there is no alternative. Can't scientists accept that sometimes they don't know?
They figured out how to make plastic lenses, tiny stepper motors, disc trays, plastic bezels, 20 gague steel boxes, ribbon cables, nylon worm gears, rubber belts, laser diodes and CMOS electronics 10 (or more) years ago, yes.
You forgot the whole sensitive blue laser that has to read the sensitive blue-ray disc. Didn't the first run of playstation 1's have to be flipped upside down to work right? And then the infamous playstation 2 disc read error. Sounds like they had some problems over the years with their drives.
Not personally, but I didn't spend $80,000 on an engineering degree for nothing, and you don't have to make 'em to know what goes inside of one.
I was waiting for that. I spent $80,000 to learn how to drink beer and BS. I bet you make a ton more money than me too. Thats what makes everything you say correct. News Flash! Merrill Lynch analyst went to a more expensive school and makes more money than you.
First of all, you've only seen me speculate up until now. No assumptions.
You assume your the smartest guy in the room. You try to pass opionion as fact. Sorry not buying it.
This is recently demonstrated by Microsoft's shareholders demanding dividends.
I was actually talking about Bill Gates' money not Microsoft's.
rational = you tell somebody something and they have to agree with you. It must suck to be schooled by a 12 year old.
Ok, your right. I bought a DVD writer for $40. How much of that does Sony get?
Smart business people under-estimate the number of sales they're going to have when they make that calculation.
And Sony fits in that category because their stock has been doing so well the last couple years.
What? So being objective is being a fanboy now. You don't know me, so you have no business making assumptions. The only reason I'm having this argument is that I'm sick of fanboys using this false argument to declare one gaming company or another dead.
All I read is assumptions and speculation from you. So yes you are just like all the people you hate.
If this were a thread about the Xbox 360, I'd have been making the same arguments. Microsoft won't be allowing themselves to take the big losses on the 360 that they did on the first Xbox. I'd bet money that they're only losing about $20 on the $299 version, and turning a healthy profit on the $399 version of the 360. The design of the 360 clearly shows that Microsoft has learned these lessons and knows how to make a profitable machine this time around.
Speculating again? Your really good at that. The thing with Microsoft is the world's richest person runs it and has a little loose change that he could lose. Sony's time is running out.
90%+ of the technology in next genereation optical drives is the same as what is in 52x CD-ROM drives that sell for $15 at retail.
So now you make CD-ROM drives too?
See, that's the trick. They figured out how to make the parts cheap ten years ago
They figured out how to make cheap Blu-ray Drives 10 years ago?
When's the last time you bought something that plays CDs? When you did, no matter what brand it was, you gave Sony money.
Probably 5 years ago. Ever heard of Itunes? The music and movie industry also has a piracy problem which sony has no solution for.
You're contradicting yourself. You say they sell enough games, but then you pull a situation that where they don't. Remember, I said to assume you were right. You're assuming that you're wrong.
You really seem to know what you are talking about so I just used your numbers. With my numbers they still lose money or break even on systems sales but your forgetting marketing and R+D costs again.
If the PS3 flops, the won't sell systems, so they won't lose much money. More realistically though, they'll sell systems for a profit, because that analyst is basing costs based on today's market, but Sony is making the parts themselves and will have figured out how to make the parts for much less by then. Remember that six months is a long time in the electronics business.
The PS3 won't fail because of fanboy's like you. More realistically they will lose money on systems because they are using Blu-ray drives. How many of those drives have you seen for sale? Zero. Do you think when they come out they are going to be cheap? That's a pretty big assumption that they will figure out how to make parts cheap in 6 months. Funny, Sony Earnings came out yesterday and they are down 46% from last year.
Speculation from an analyst is speculation from an analyst.
Same applies to slashdot wannabe's.
If you're only talking about at launch, then that's true. But why would a company tell people who think they're getting more than their money's worth that, in reality they aren't?
You're right. Stockholders would probably care though.
Time to come back to the real world here. What's the motivation? These companies are in this to turn a profit, not to win some fanboy flamewar.
So companies never lose money?
The average user only buys five or six new (I.E. not pre-owned) games over the life of a console.
So you've taken a survey of every user ever? I think it is probably closer to 10. The blade and razor theory applies because when the person gets done with a game they are probably going to buy another. How many people buy 5 games and then pack up the console and put it in the closet?
Don't forget that Sony also has a media business to keep them afloat. Plus, if you're right that would mean they succeeded with the PS2 without the help of their other divisions, so there's really no reason to assume they're in any trouble.
When is the last time you bought a Sony TV? VCR? DVD/CD Player? Monitor? Walkmen?
Please, describe for me a situation where you assume your analyst and commentary is right and Sony is in trouble financially from it.
Here's the math. System costs $500 to make. They sell it for $400. The person only buys 5 games. They make $25 to $50 on the games. That is a loss of $50 to $75. Plus Marketing costs and R+D costs.