Buy a computer that has the specs you want, then wipe the hard drive and install Windows 7. Problem solved.
Except it is not always that simple. Supposedly there are already some laptops out there that lack drivers for Windows 7. The number of incompatible laptops will increase as time goes on.
There is also the problem of support. Vendors may refuse to support your hardware if it does not have the factory provided OS or software on it.
And on top of that, you would be paying for an additional windows license.
Stupid thing appeared blank in all of the browsers I tried. (Sorry, no, not the more popular ones, go ahead and hate me:P )
Personally I would kill to have the old HTML3 Slashdot back. Could browse that on a freaking Amiga, a QNX 1.44mb floppy disk, or Breadbox (Geoworks) Ensemble!
But no, we have to do everything the new fancy way because... because... because.. the old way is ooooooold!
Quality DVD-Rs and CD-Rs last a long time, have no mechanical components to wear out, or electronic parts that can get zapped. They are not even magnetic, so EM is not an issue. Except for RW media, they can not be overwritten so data can not be altered by a computer glitch or virus. Their interface to the computer can't become obsolete since they don't have one, and newer drives would adapt for the next great thing. CD-R media even lets my data be readable in the oldest of CD drives. Disks are easier to store and organize than a pile of flash drives. And CD/DVDs don't usually break when dropped, like hard drives.
Unlike teh cloudz, the data is secure from prying eyes and right under my fingertips when I need it.
I use DVD-R for long term backups all the time, and I'm a little concerned that if CD/DVD media goes the way of the floppy drive then what can I use that is just as reliable and inexpensive?
I nominate VisiCorp Visi On. It is often forgotten, but it beat Microsoft as the first full GUI for the IBM PC and heavily influenced their push to create Microsoft Windows. Among other reasons it heavily illustrates the state of GUIs in 1983 prior to much influence from the Mac or Lisa.
Also, the Xerox Star and Xerox Alto, especially the Smalltalk environment.
There is actually a Xerox Alto emulator out there called SALTO with some disk images, but no complete images of Alto Smalltalk yet.
Of course all of these were influential in the area of GUIS. There were certainly others that were influential in areas that aren't so easily visible.
lack of driver support means Wi-Fi may stop working if you exercise your downgrade rights.
Mod parent up. As time goes on we absolutely will see more hardware and software that for one reason or another requires Windows 8.
I'm actually surprised Microsoft has not already deluged the industry with such software already.
Also, Windows 7 is slowly becoming harder to find. I noticed a number of places, such as Newegg, have already discontinued sales of Windows 7 Ultimate.
Try supporting an office full of average, run of the mill, people sometime and your perspective might change. "People" are not you or me. Even if they are experts in some other area, the majority of them will need training for any major computer related change. Most of them are afraid to change even the most simple settings because they think they might break something or might get in to trouble. And in some environments many settings are often locked down anyway.
And just because you don't mind doing something a harder way (or even if it happens to work better for you) doesn't mean that it is OK to force that way on to everyone else.
Please don't use the word "Modern". It's an intentional trick to sow confusion, akin to "Office Open XML" when their biggest competitor was OpenOffice. We need a proper name, and with the lack of something official, "Metro" is the best candidate (as it was official).
Worse yet, the name "Modern UI" is downright insulting to anyone who knowns anything about user interfaces. Full screen applications? One application at a time? Just like the good old DOS days of the 1980s! And even back then people were trying like crazy to escape that with character based multi-taskers like TopView/DESQview or GUIs like Visi On, the original Mac/Lisa, GEM, Amiga, and a little program from Microsoft called "Windows".
My ten year old daughter was in tears because she couldn't figure out her new windows 8 laptop. Perhaps MS shouldn't have tried to do too much too soon?
Sounds like you've got a PEBKAC problem...
I'm sorry, I read your story as a failure on behalf of microsoft to communicate instructions, and a failure on behalf of toshiba to sell you a high quality, low price laptop.
Maybe there is some way for microsoft to provide a "how to" video the first time the computer turns on, and for toshiba to subsidize the price of the laptop with easily uninstalled software.
Well, I read the story as a failure on behalf of Microsoft to provide a user interface that operated in a way that someone wanted, needed, and was used to.
Having instructions with your new square-wheeled car isn't going make it more pleasant to use or more useful. And people DO NOT just magically adapt to doing something new, especially when the new way is worse.
> Touch is a nice extra, but as the main input for a system that needs to be productive it doesn't justify the costs.
And that is the big problem with touch. It is a waste of money. Why should I spend extra on a desktop monitor or laptop that has touch? I have no use for it, and it does not help get work done any faster/easier. It even gets nasty when finger prints are all over it! It looks cool? So what? The economy is still in the shitter and most people have to watch every dollar they spend.
If you have big investments in Microsoft or Microsoft products, you should be worried. The inability to recognize their failure means they will keep trying to ram themselves in to the ground.
This reminds me so much of the 98 Internet Explorer "Integration" fiasco. You WILL install it and you WILL use it regardless if you want it or not. The only reason they did it was to crush their competitor. But eventually they realized that even this was a mistake and somewhat backed down from it.
They even canned Microsoft BOB fairly quickly, and you don't see much of Clippy any more either.
But if they really don't realize they made a mistake here, then you will see no improvements in Windows 9/10/11 etc and further product degradation in to an even worse mess of useless crap.
I don't know about anyone else, but one of the reasons I enjoy watching sci-fi shows is to explore the universe someone created. When the universe is thoroughly explored or the consistency is shot to hell, then it just might as well be any show.
The problem is that big corps prefer to take the "safe" route and put money behind things that are already well known and tested, even if they are mediocre.
Good thing it wasn't a Mooninite toothbrush with blinking LEDs flipping them off. Then they would have had to nuke it from orbit just to be sure. Because, you know, protect teh children.
Cue all the Microsoft shills posting crap like "I've been using it for months and it works great for me and I'm not going to support my statements with any kind of reasoning. A 3 year old can learn to use it, get used to it you Luddite! Now, where is my check, Balmer?"
They should do a study on overbearing legislation and its effects on mental health. I'm sure they won't like what they find. When everyone except criminals are living in a padded box because doing anything is illegal... well, what do you expect?
So how many rights are we going to have to give up this time? Did we even have any left?
Aw, but according to the TV all anybody needs is a few hours, perhaps a larger computer than usual if it is "military grade" encryption, and a gui front end in VB, and you can decode ANYTHING!
> Or just disable secure boot, which is amazingly easy to do in the first place. If a novice user can properly install Linux, that same novice user can be directed to disable this stupid function.
To repeat what I have said before: how well will that really work in practice?
You: "Hey, I need to boot my Linux USB drive on your computer, is that OK?" Friend: "Uh, sure, I guess." Friend: "Uh, it isn't working." You: "Oh, I need to go in to your bios and disable SecureBoot." Friend: "Duh, you aren't disabling anything that makes my computer less secure!" You "but...." Friend "NO!!!".
It's great that it works for you. Yes, at the moment it is possible to scrape off most of the Windows 8 garbage and re-add the start menu using a third party program. But that takes time, effort, some knowhow, and OS permissions. How many average people are really going to go to all that trouble?
And I have never seen a Microsoft service pack significantly change the user interface. Even in the unlikely event they back down from their bad UI decisions, we WILL have to wait for Windows 9.
It is no surprise that sales are in the gutter. I fully expect this to hurt PC sales in general.
The Windows 8 user interface is a horrid toy. And with the economy looking as if it will be even further down the toilet next year, who is going to waste money on a desktop touch screen monitor so they can have the privileged of holding out their aching arms for hours on end and covering it with fingerprints?
It seem like Microsoft is trying to kill of their own market. I'm fairly sure that Microsoft and pals were behind the media parroting "The PC is dead" in order to increase sales of their unwanted tablets. Well, with Windows 8 nobody wants their PCs either.
Slashdot Mirror
I hear a nuke from orbit is fairly effective. Haven't had a chance to try that yet.
Except it is not always that simple. Supposedly there are already some laptops out there that lack drivers for Windows 7. The number of incompatible laptops will increase as time goes on.
There is also the problem of support. Vendors may refuse to support your hardware if it does not have the factory provided OS or software on it.
And on top of that, you would be paying for an additional windows license.
Stupid thing appeared blank in all of the browsers I tried. (Sorry, no, not the more popular ones, go ahead and hate me :P )
Personally I would kill to have the old HTML3 Slashdot back. Could browse that on a freaking Amiga, a QNX 1.44mb floppy disk, or Breadbox (Geoworks) Ensemble!
But no, we have to do everything the new fancy way because... because... because.. the old way is ooooooold!
Quality DVD-Rs and CD-Rs last a long time, have no mechanical components to wear out, or electronic parts that can get zapped. They are not even magnetic, so EM is not an issue. Except for RW media, they can not be overwritten so data can not be altered by a computer glitch or virus. Their interface to the computer can't become obsolete since they don't have one, and newer drives would adapt for the next great thing. CD-R media even lets my data be readable in the oldest of CD drives. Disks are easier to store and organize than a pile of flash drives. And CD/DVDs don't usually break when dropped, like hard drives.
Unlike teh cloudz, the data is secure from prying eyes and right under my fingertips when I need it.
I use DVD-R for long term backups all the time, and I'm a little concerned that if CD/DVD media goes the way of the floppy drive then what can I use that is just as reliable and inexpensive?
I nominate VisiCorp Visi On. It is often forgotten, but it beat Microsoft as the first full GUI for the IBM PC and heavily influenced their push to create Microsoft Windows. Among other reasons it heavily illustrates the state of GUIs in 1983 prior to much influence from the Mac or Lisa.
Also, the Xerox Star and Xerox Alto, especially the Smalltalk environment.
There is actually a Xerox Alto emulator out there called SALTO with some disk images, but no complete images of Alto Smalltalk yet.
Of course all of these were influential in the area of GUIS. There were certainly others that were influential in areas that aren't so easily visible.
Mod parent up. As time goes on we absolutely will see more hardware and software that for one reason or another requires Windows 8.
I'm actually surprised Microsoft has not already deluged the industry with such software already.
Also, Windows 7 is slowly becoming harder to find. I noticed a number of places, such as Newegg, have already discontinued sales of Windows 7 Ultimate.
Try supporting an office full of average, run of the mill, people sometime and your perspective might change. "People" are not you or me. Even if they are experts in some other area, the majority of them will need training for any major computer related change. Most of them are afraid to change even the most simple settings because they think they might break something or might get in to trouble. And in some environments many settings are often locked down anyway.
And just because you don't mind doing something a harder way (or even if it happens to work better for you) doesn't mean that it is OK to force that way on to everyone else.
Worse yet, the name "Modern UI" is downright insulting to anyone who knowns anything about user interfaces. Full screen applications? One application at a time? Just like the good old DOS days of the 1980s! And even back then people were trying like crazy to escape that with character based multi-taskers like TopView/DESQview or GUIs like Visi On, the original Mac/Lisa, GEM, Amiga, and a little program from Microsoft called "Windows".
Well, I read the story as a failure on behalf of Microsoft to provide a user interface that operated in a way that someone wanted, needed, and was used to.
Having instructions with your new square-wheeled car isn't going make it more pleasant to use or more useful. And people DO NOT just magically adapt to doing something new, especially when the new way is worse.
> Touch is a nice extra, but as the main input for a system that needs to be productive it doesn't justify the costs.
And that is the big problem with touch. It is a waste of money. Why should I spend extra on a desktop monitor or laptop that has touch? I have no use for it, and it does not help get work done any faster/easier. It even gets nasty when finger prints are all over it! It looks cool? So what? The economy is still in the shitter and most people have to watch every dollar they spend.
If you have big investments in Microsoft or Microsoft products, you should be worried. The inability to recognize their failure means they will keep trying to ram themselves in to the ground.
This reminds me so much of the 98 Internet Explorer "Integration" fiasco. You WILL install it and you WILL use it regardless if you want it or not. The only reason they did it was to crush their competitor. But eventually they realized that even this was a mistake and somewhat backed down from it.
They even canned Microsoft BOB fairly quickly, and you don't see much of Clippy any more either.
But if they really don't realize they made a mistake here, then you will see no improvements in Windows 9/10/11 etc and further product degradation in to an even worse mess of useless crap.
Just fuck them. The universe doesn't and shouldn't fucking revolve around them.
I don't know about anyone else, but one of the reasons I enjoy watching sci-fi shows is to explore the universe someone created. When the universe is thoroughly explored or the consistency is shot to hell, then it just might as well be any show.
The problem is that big corps prefer to take the "safe" route and put money behind things that are already well known and tested, even if they are mediocre.
Good thing it wasn't a Mooninite toothbrush with blinking LEDs flipping them off. Then they would have had to nuke it from orbit just to be sure. Because, you know, protect teh children.
So, are we secure enough yet?
Cue all the Microsoft shills posting crap like "I've been using it for months and it works great for me and I'm not going to support my statements with any kind of reasoning. A 3 year old can learn to use it, get used to it you Luddite! Now, where is my check, Balmer?"
Obligatory: Get the update patch here: http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/
They should do a study on overbearing legislation and its effects on mental health. I'm sure they won't like what they find. When everyone except criminals are living in a padded box because doing anything is illegal... well, what do you expect?
So how many rights are we going to have to give up this time? Did we even have any left?
>start typing an app / file name, and hit Return to launch
Congratulation, this is how we did it back in the DOS days, and even up to Windows 3.1 because the Program Manager was so poor.
We started using GUIs because, among other things, they gave us an easier way to launch programs.
You just showed that Windows 8 fails in this regard.
Aw, but according to the TV all anybody needs is a few hours, perhaps a larger computer than usual if it is "military grade" encryption, and a gui front end in VB, and you can decode ANYTHING!
> Or just disable secure boot, which is amazingly easy to do in the first place. If a novice user can properly install Linux, that same novice user can be directed to disable this stupid function.
To repeat what I have said before: how well will that really work in practice?
You: "Hey, I need to boot my Linux USB drive on your computer, is that OK?"
Friend: "Uh, sure, I guess."
Friend: "Uh, it isn't working."
You: "Oh, I need to go in to your bios and disable SecureBoot."
Friend: "Duh, you aren't disabling anything that makes my computer less secure!"
You "but...."
Friend "NO!!!".
Bootloader signing must be controlled by a neutral third party. Not Microsoft. Anything less is simply anticompetitive and will end badly.
Reading between the lines, you can clearly hear Microsoft management waffling around muttering "Uh, we need to find a way to fuck open source harder"
It's great that it works for you. Yes, at the moment it is possible to scrape off most of the Windows 8 garbage and re-add the start menu using a third party program. But that takes time, effort, some knowhow, and OS permissions. How many average people are really going to go to all that trouble?
And I have never seen a Microsoft service pack significantly change the user interface. Even in the unlikely event they back down from their bad UI decisions, we WILL have to wait for Windows 9.
It is no surprise that sales are in the gutter. I fully expect this to hurt PC sales in general.
The Windows 8 user interface is a horrid toy. And with the economy looking as if it will be even further down the toilet next year, who is going to waste money on a desktop touch screen monitor so they can have the privileged of holding out their aching arms for hours on end and covering it with fingerprints?
It seem like Microsoft is trying to kill of their own market. I'm fairly sure that Microsoft and pals were behind the media parroting "The PC is dead" in order to increase sales of their unwanted tablets. Well, with Windows 8 nobody wants their PCs either.
>OpenOffice is free. You are more or less going to be better off with a local version.
Yea, but the people running a "cloud" version will be able to MAKE money from mining and exploiting your personal data.
Ironically, the older versions of Open/Star Office had a built in web browser!
Looks like a set of Windows 8 license keys. DMCA takedown in 3..2..1..